From b.ghose at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 08:04:04 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 11:34:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] Cool developments on the PyPy front
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin432hsDaD0hSHs7+ONJ=8MY4xA_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin432hsDaD0hSHs7+ONJ=8MY4xA_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiktVriE92_t1fx4U5VEiWq+MvU4+g@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting, seems to be similar to Clojure's approach towards managing state.

Regards,
BG

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is an informational post only. I've been watching some of the
> performance developments on PyPy, but this one made me feel real good.
> Apparently PyPy is going to lose the GIL and implement locking via STM
>
> http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2011/06/global-interpreter-lock-or-how-to-kill.html
>



-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From look4puneet at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 11:09:25 2011
From: look4puneet at gmail.com (Puneet Aggarwal)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:39:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Spell Checker Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimeB7YUXU6+s2vpQQx3HxzvsjMxhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim8_kWOCkfaVb0yJWFHw2zpt9Ko4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimCAHv4sOy1wztRdZ3n31Y6GJjdug@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikCfepxnmZRQsEy88o7Gi48=O6MNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimeB7YUXU6+s2vpQQx3HxzvsjMxhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikU8i2S=h_DD8v+r+eqOL1iJ9CEZw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone for the responses.  I will try out the suggestions.

Thanks,
Puneet

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 AM, JAGANADH G <jaganadhg at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Shashidhar P <shashidhar85 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello Jaganadh
> >
> >                I already used pyenchant and implemented for German,
> French,
> > Italy, Czech, English languages.
> >                But I am also facing problem with special characters in
> the
> > German language i.e UMLAUTS. Its not giving me proper result for the
> German
> > special characters. It check a word and says its wrong.
> >
> >               Do you have any idea about how to handle this exception?
> >
>
>
>
> Which function from Enahcnt dict you are using ".check(word)" or
> ".suggest(word)" ? .
> I think the german special charcters problem may due to:
> 1) Either enchant may not be reading the dict file with proper encoding . I
> am not sure about this . I will check and tell
> --
> **********************************
> JAGANADH G
> http://jaganadhg.freeflux.net/blog
> *ILUGCBE*
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From shashidhar85 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 20:19:56 2011
From: shashidhar85 at gmail.com (Shashidhar P)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 23:49:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Spell Checker Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimeB7YUXU6+s2vpQQx3HxzvsjMxhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim8_kWOCkfaVb0yJWFHw2zpt9Ko4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimCAHv4sOy1wztRdZ3n31Y6GJjdug@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikCfepxnmZRQsEy88o7Gi48=O6MNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimeB7YUXU6+s2vpQQx3HxzvsjMxhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinkj=AxCvwEZhnaPo3Y1vr5xy3hwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jaganadh

           >>> I have used both .check(word) and .suggest(word)
           >>> First i check a word if its not correct then I call
.suggest(word) to show which are the relative correct words.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:45 AM, JAGANADH G <jaganadhg at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Shashidhar P <shashidhar85 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello Jaganadh
> >
> >                I already used pyenchant and implemented for German,
> French,
> > Italy, Czech, English languages.
> >                But I am also facing problem with special characters in
> the
> > German language i.e UMLAUTS. Its not giving me proper result for the
> German
> > special characters. It check a word and says its wrong.
> >
> >               Do you have any idea about how to handle this exception?
> >
>
>
>
> Which function from Enahcnt dict you are using ".check(word)" or
> ".suggest(word)" ? .
> I think the german special charcters problem may due to:
> 1) Either enchant may not be reading the dict file with proper encoding . I
> am not sure about this . I will check and tell
> --
> **********************************
> JAGANADH G
> http://jaganadhg.freeflux.net/blog
> *ILUGCBE*
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
-----------------------------------
Regards,

Shashidhar N.Paragonda
shashidhar85 at gmail.com
+919449073835

From senthil at uthcode.com  Sat Jul  2 20:17:01 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:17:01 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] Cool developments on the PyPy front
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiktVriE92_t1fx4U5VEiWq+MvU4+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin432hsDaD0hSHs7+ONJ=8MY4xA_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiktVriE92_t1fx4U5VEiWq+MvU4+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110702181701.GA2630@mathmagic>

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Apparently PyPy is going to lose the GIL and implement locking via STM
> >

The world of databases immediately striked me, as soon as I read the
word 'transaction'. STM seems a good extension to that much testing
concept to a much lower level at the translation stage. Interesting.

-- 
Senthil

From zaki at manian.org  Sat Jul  2 23:04:46 2011
From: zaki at manian.org (zaki at manian.org)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:04:46 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] Cool developments on the PyPy front
In-Reply-To: <20110702181701.GA2630@mathmagic>
References: <BANLkTin432hsDaD0hSHs7+ONJ=8MY4xA_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiktVriE92_t1fx4U5VEiWq+MvU4+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110702181701.GA2630@mathmagic>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=70HkfOh4XPUsd2TEtFZOs35THEg@mail.gmail.com>

In general using STM for shared state concurrency in everything is mutable
languages like python seems to be destined for failure. Haskell and Clojure
both limit mutability and can use STM effectively. The C# team put
extraordinary effort into doing a STM for the CLR and failed miserably.

It looks like we need to either port the object level locking capability of
the JVM and CLR to python to kill the GIL or python needed new semantics
around mutability.



US number: +1 650-492-8286
Indian Number:+919945111824


On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Apparently PyPy is going to lose the GIL and implement locking via STM
> > >
>
> The world of databases immediately striked me, as soon as I read the
> word 'transaction'. STM seems a good extension to that much testing
> concept to a much lower level at the translation stage. Interesting.
>
> --
> Senthil
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From asif.jamadar at rezayat.net  Mon Jul  4 08:24:48 2011
From: asif.jamadar at rezayat.net (Asif Jamadar)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:24:48 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
Message-ID: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>

Suppose I have list of tuples

data = [
    (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
    ]

for value in data:
     if data[value]>5:
                print " greater"
    else:
       print "lesser"

But the code giving me error so can I know how iterate list of tuples?


From anandology at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 08:32:12 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:02:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFwPdjFgFsFZT5eXAio1ob0Kom+eUOqbrCt-VxuGqQVk5g@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/4 Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net>:
> Suppose I have list of tuples
>
> data = [
> ? ?(10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
> ? ?]
>
> for value in data:
> ? ? if data[value]>5:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print " greater"
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ? print "lesser"
>
> But the code giving me error so can I know how iterate list of tuples?

What is the error you are getting? It looks like you are using
different indentation for if part and else part.

Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 08:31:14 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:01:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	(Asif Jamadar's message of "Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:24:48 +0000")
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net> writes:

> Suppose I have list of tuples
>
> data = [
>     (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
>     ]
>
> for value in data:
>      if data[value]>5:
>                 print " greater"
>     else:
>        print "lesser"


if the list has just one tuple, you need to iterate over it's individual
elements. 

        for i in data[0]: # Iterate over elements of the tuple
             if i > 5:
                print "greater"
             else:
                print "lesser"

`value` in your code does not mean the index, it's the actual element
itself.

[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

I'm proud of my humility.

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 08:36:27 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:06:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFQQ-b7bbeQ+rySmPk=kgAsusD1=NCVopet0nSc-rFefhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net>wrote:

> Suppose I have list of tuples
>
> data = [
>    (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
>    ]
>
> for value in data:
>     if data[value]>5:
>                print " greater"
>    else:
>       print "lesser"
>
> But the code giving me error so can I know how iterate list of tuples?
>

for tup in data:
  for x in tup:
    if x> 5:
      print x, ':greater'
    else:
      print x, ':lesser'

Also, check if you can use 'any'.

-V

From delegbede at dudupay.com  Mon Jul  4 08:37:10 2011
From: delegbede at dudupay.com (delegbede at dudupay.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:37:10 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <353161400-1309761441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1040566548-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>

Asif,

You can iterate over a tuple. When doing that you reference the values directly. 
From your example, data is a list containing a tuple. To check this, do this from the prompt. 
type(data)
You should get:
<Type 'list'>

That said, your mistake is
On the if line. It should read:

 if value > 5:
And not what you wrote. 

For the purpose of another time, kindly paste the error message. With this we can point you to the direction of error. 

Also, indent he print command after the else: properly. 

Your new code should read this. 

data = [
    (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
    ]

for value in data:
     if value > 5:
                print " greater"
    else:
                print "lesser"


Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

-----Original Message-----
From: Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net>
Sender: bangpypers-bounces+delegbede=dudupay.com at python.org
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:24:48 
To: bangpypers at python.org<bangpypers at python.org>
Reply-To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples

Suppose I have list of tuples

data = [
    (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
    ]

for value in data:
     if data[value]>5:
                print " greater"
    else:
       print "lesser"

But the code giving me error so can I know how iterate list of tuples?

_______________________________________________
BangPypers mailing list
BangPypers at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 08:40:42 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:10:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <353161400-1309761441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1040566548-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<353161400-1309761441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1040566548-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTNFmdYsksbr0VqrLCNdSZfvM=nx1UBg8fF8GFhpqteWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:07 PM, <delegbede at dudupay.com> wrote:

>
> Your new code should read this.
>
> data = [
>    (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
>    ]
>
> for value in data:
>      if value > 5:
>                 print " greater"
>    else:
>                print "lesser"
>

WRONG. Please dont misguide.

From lawgon at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 08:46:14 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:16:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <353161400-1309761441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1040566548-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<353161400-1309761441-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1040566548-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <1309761974.2339.71.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 06:37 +0000, delegbede at dudupay.com wrote:
> 
> data = [
>     (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
>     ]
> 
> for value in data:
>      if value > 5: 

value = (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5)
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From delegbede at dudupay.com  Mon Jul  4 08:53:32 2011
From: delegbede at dudupay.com (delegbede at dudupay.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 06:53:32 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
Message-ID: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>

I still can't see my mistake Kenneth. 

May I just point out that, I am quite unhappy with Venk's choice of word. 

Should there be a mistake in what I wrote, there surely wouldn't be an intention to misguide. 

Kindly point out the mistake please. 

Thank you. 

------Original Message------
From: Kenneth Gonsalves
To: delegbede at dudupay.com
To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India
Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
Sent: 4 Jul 2011 7:46 AM

On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 06:37 +0000, delegbede at dudupay.com wrote:
> 
> data = [
>     (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
>     ]
> 
> for value in data:
>      if value > 5: 

value = (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5)
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/



Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

From selva4210 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:01:42 2011
From: selva4210 at gmail.com (selva4210 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:31:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CABX9RmxDa2ixOBMK34CaLO7iNB_xfQMJvAqrGsrNgf6xtYqL6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM,  <delegbede at dudupay.com> wrote:
> I still can't see my mistake Kenneth.
>
> May I just point out that, I am quite unhappy with Venk's choice of word.
>
> Should there be a mistake in what I wrote, there surely wouldn't be an intention to misguide.
>
> Kindly point out the mistake please.

He has actually pointed out!
The value will point the whole tuple. Not the elements inside tuple.


-- 
Azhagu Selvan

http://tamizhgeek.in

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:08:53 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:38:53 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM, <delegbede at dudupay.com> wrote:

> I still can't see my mistake Kenneth.
>
> May I just point out that, I am quite unhappy with Venk's choice of word.
>

I would have apologized if you had tried the code that you had written or
atleast mentioned in the email
that 'i havent tried, but something like this ...'.


> Should there be a mistake in what I wrote, there surely wouldn't be an
> intention to misguide.
>

Posting content on DLs(esp in high SNR DLs like this) needs some amount of
judgement;
remember that you are guiding someone (esp from this Q you can know that the
OP is a newbie)
and this always needs 'care'.


> Kindly point out the mistake please.
>

Check again - try running your code.

-V

From abpillai at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:17:09 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:47:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CACpj97DuTOpVe9hcLzS4bVft-wacbKh3fsvm4aeqmvbhmBvOFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net> writes:
>
> > Suppose I have list of tuples
> >
> > data = [
> >     (10, 25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5),
> >     ]
> >
> > for value in data:
> >      if data[value]>5:
> >                 print " greater"
> >     else:
> >        print "lesser"
>
>
> if the list has just one tuple, you need to iterate over it's individual
> elements.
>
>        for i in data[0]: # Iterate over elements of the tuple
>             if i > 5:
>                 print "greater"
>             else:
>                print "lesser"
>
> `value` in your code does not mean the index, it's the actual element
> itself.
>

 This is the correct approach. If you don't like
 doing it like this, there is a 2nd approach where
 you can index inside the loop rather than "on" the
 loop

  >>> data=[(10,25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5)]
  >>> for value in zip(*data):
...     if (value[0] > 5): print 'Greater'
...     else: print 'Lesser'
...
Greater
Greater
Greater
Greater
Greater
Greater
Greater
Lesser

But then I might have confused you with that !



>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> ~noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
>
> I'm proud of my humility.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
--Anand

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:22:16 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:52:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CACpj97DuTOpVe9hcLzS4bVft-wacbKh3fsvm4aeqmvbhmBvOFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CACpj97DuTOpVe9hcLzS4bVft-wacbKh3fsvm4aeqmvbhmBvOFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFSRP4ry7vSiaSzXonCft4gxrm4Aa=FSF16Di8E6sUTonA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai <
abpillai at gmail.com> wrote:

>   >>> data=[(10,25, 18, 17, 10, 12, 26, 5)]
>
>  >>> for value in zip(*data):
> ...     if (value[0] > 5): print 'Greater'
> ...     else: print 'Lesser'
>


Right. I wrote this and then didnt send as the OP sounds like a n00b.

Btw, i got a  Q: why doesnt 'any' work in this case? Like...
for tup in data:
  if any(tup) > 5:
    print 'greater'
  else:
    print 'lesser'

-V

From delegbede at dudupay.com  Mon Jul  4 09:23:15 2011
From: delegbede at dudupay.com (delegbede at dudupay.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 07:23:15 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry><CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>

Venkatraman,

You sound quite rude and arrogant. 

This is a public forum and you should manage your choice of words. 

My error was a typo and I wouldn't have pushed what I haven't tried out. 

What I didn't put was the index of the tuple in the list and that shouldn't call for my head. 

You should however manage how you address people in a forum like this. 
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

-----Original Message-----
From: Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:38:53 
To: <delegbede at dudupay.com>; Bangalore Python Users Group - India<bangpypers at python.org>
Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM, <delegbede at dudupay.com> wrote:

> I still can't see my mistake Kenneth.
>
> May I just point out that, I am quite unhappy with Venk's choice of word.
>

I would have apologized if you had tried the code that you had written or
atleast mentioned in the email
that 'i havent tried, but something like this ...'.


> Should there be a mistake in what I wrote, there surely wouldn't be an
> intention to misguide.
>

Posting content on DLs(esp in high SNR DLs like this) needs some amount of
judgement;
remember that you are guiding someone (esp from this Q you can know that the
OP is a newbie)
and this always needs 'care'.


> Kindly point out the mistake please.
>

Check again - try running your code.

-V


From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:31:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:01:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFSRP4ry7vSiaSzXonCft4gxrm4Aa=FSF16Di8E6sUTonA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:52:16 +0530")
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CACpj97DuTOpVe9hcLzS4bVft-wacbKh3fsvm4aeqmvbhmBvOFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFSRP4ry7vSiaSzXonCft4gxrm4Aa=FSF16Di8E6sUTonA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wrfytsc1.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> Right. I wrote this and then didnt send as the OP sounds like a n00b.

n00b (especially with the leet speak) is a tad pejorative. I think you
should not use the word here. 

> Btw, i got a  Q: why doesnt 'any' work in this case? Like...
> for tup in data:
>   if any(tup) > 5:
>     print 'greater'
>   else:
>     print 'lesser'

[...]

any expects an iterable of items with a truth value (True or
False). It will return True if any of the items are try. 

any(tup) will return True (since all the numbers in his tuple are non
zero and therefore True) so your condition is True > 5 (which ironically
evaluates to False on Python2.x) so it'll just print "lesser". 


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

I am a deeply superficial person. -Andy Warhol

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:35:11 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:05:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
	(delegbede@dudupay.com's message of "Mon, 4 Jul 2011 07:23:15 +0000")
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
	<CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <87oc1ats5s.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

delegbede at dudupay.com writes:

> Venkatraman,
>
> You sound quite rude and arrogant.

Maybe but these *are* public lists and you'll find all sorts of people
here. 

Venkat's mail was to the point but lacked sugar coating and (in poor
taste) contained an accusation. 

I think you should just let it pass. The list archives are public and if
anyone *does* show interest in the members' behaviour in the future
(which is highly unlikely), they'll have the original emails to make
their own decisions.

[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Hegel was right when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn anything from history. -George Bernard Shaw

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:37:49 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:07:49 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <87wrfytsc1.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CACpj97DuTOpVe9hcLzS4bVft-wacbKh3fsvm4aeqmvbhmBvOFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFSRP4ry7vSiaSzXonCft4gxrm4Aa=FSF16Di8E6sUTonA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87wrfytsc1.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTK=ww96ickg8iRa4QBB77hSg3w_--uUSQ4QoruCJ6_Ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Right. I wrote this and then didnt send as the OP sounds like a n00b.
>
>
> n00b (especially with the leet speak) is a tad pejorative. I think you
> should not use the word here.
>

I apologize captain! :)

From anandology at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:38:10 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:08:10 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49328FDC4C8@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87d3hqv9ot.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFy285jEgQMnVxtuUqK5-TfXkpAZ4VVAcXR3009bZBtn-w@mail.gmail.com>

> ? ? ? ?for i in data[0]: # Iterate over elements of the tuple
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if i > 5:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print "greater"
> ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print "lesser"
>
> `value` in your code does not mean the index, it's the actual element
> itself.

It is unsaid rule that variables i, j and k are used for loop indexes.
It is confusing if you use them for other values, esp. in loops.

This reads better:

for x in data[0]:
    if x > 5:
        print "greater"
    else:
        print "lesser"

Anand

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  4 09:42:20 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:12:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
	<CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFT2f682CpgMhMaFuiveFS9+7fmkL5nXSQDU6n5uMUNPfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:53 PM, <delegbede at dudupay.com> wrote:

> You sound quite rude and arrogant.
>
> This is a public forum and you should manage your choice of words.
>
> My error was a typo and I wouldn't have pushed what I haven't tried out.
>
> What I didn't put was the index of the tuple in the list and that shouldn't
> call for my head.
>
> You should however manage how you address people in a forum like this.
>

Hey, the crux that the OP was missing was the index - that was the heart of
the code and you didnt have it.
Also, doesnt look like the code you had was tried  - for it would have run
'with the right results' otherwise.
No one is claiming your head buddy...we chillax here. Let's roll....

-V

From delegbede at dudupay.com  Mon Jul  4 09:49:02 2011
From: delegbede at dudupay.com (delegbede at dudupay.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 07:49:02 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples
In-Reply-To: <87oc1ats5s.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1849180637-1309762411-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1327248624-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry><CAN7tdFTochQUk3-UX=_vTdjgZfs1tN2q5XWvG0nv7k1+GX1rEQ@mail.gmail.com><404332958-1309764195-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1938648438-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry><87oc1ats5s.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <441856133-1309765741-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859913044-@b28.c12.bise7.blackberry>

It's all good gentlemen. 

I have learnt a great deal here and won't have a thing like this slow me down. 

Sorry about the typo, I would pay more attention next time. 

That said, thanks for your respective inputs. 

It's morning here in Nigeria, so, good morning or good afternoon or good night. Whatever applies. 

greet=['good morning','good afternoon','good evening','good night']

for x in greet:
        print x

You can choose your appropriate value for x. 

Regards. 
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN

-----Original Message-----
From: Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com>
Sender: bangpypers-bounces+delegbede=dudupay.com at python.org
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:05:11 
To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India<bangpypers at python.org>
Reply-To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Iterating list of tuples

delegbede at dudupay.com writes:

> Venkatraman,
>
> You sound quite rude and arrogant.

Maybe but these *are* public lists and you'll find all sorts of people
here. 

Venkat's mail was to the point but lacked sugar coating and (in poor
taste) contained an accusation. 

I think you should just let it pass. The list archives are public and if
anyone *does* show interest in the members' behaviour in the future
(which is highly unlikely), they'll have the original emails to make
their own decisions.

[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Hegel was right when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn anything from history. -George Bernard Shaw
_______________________________________________
BangPypers mailing list
BangPypers at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers

From senthil at uthcode.com  Mon Jul  4 23:32:42 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:32:42 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] FW: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.2.1 rc 2
In-Reply-To: <4E11FD02.3040205@python.org>
References: <4E11FD02.3040205@python.org>
Message-ID: <20110704213242.GB4320@mathmagic>

On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 07:48:50PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development team, I am pleased to announce the
> second release candidate of Python 3.2.1.
> 
> Python 3.2.1 will the first bugfix release for Python 3.2, fixing over 120
> bugs and regressions in Python 3.2.
> 
> For an extensive list of changes and features in the 3.2 line, see
> 
>     http://docs.python.org/3.2/whatsnew/3.2.html
> 
> To download Python 3.2.1 visit:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.1/
> 
> This is a testing release: Please consider trying Python 3.2.1 with your code
> and reporting any bugs you may notice to:
> 
>     http://bugs.python.org/
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -- 
> Georg Brandl, Release Manager
> georg at python.org
> (on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.2's contributors)
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/senthil%40uthcode.com

From senthil at uthcode.com  Wed Jul  6 07:11:54 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 22:11:54 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] Twisted volunteers required
Message-ID: <20110706051154.GB2294@mathmagic>

If any of you like to volunteer their time for Twisted project, here
are their requirements
 
http://labs.twistedmatrix.com/2011/07/volunteers-needed-for-twisted-project.html
 
Twisted is an excellent project with very high standards.  I would
like to see if I could run a buildslave from my house.
 
-- 
Senthil

From djpatra at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 12:10:55 2011
From: djpatra at gmail.com (devjyoti patra)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:40:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Event][Commercial] Scaling PHP in the Cloud
Message-ID: <CAOSkKiU0NgNM7VN0Dhd8U7Xw-b3-PvFj_xSrozGS-VYUfh2KSg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Since there are many members here who work with NoSQL-driven
architectures, I thought of posting about the following event.

There is a cloud computing event this weekend. It's called Scaling PHP
in the Cloud and it's on July 9 in Bangalore. PHP is only a reference
point for the audience; most sessions are on scalability. You can
register for the event here

http://phpcloud.hasgeek.in

Other resources like venue, schedule, session, and speakers are
available on the site.

Thanks and Regards,
Devjyoti

From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 16:15:54 2011
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:45:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Writing extendable django views
Message-ID: <CAN+DPADdNL_0zvv73KpfSuukR5rvwT55ZSh1=jHmnYO35m3d4w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all , This is just a thought

The question is very abstract , how do you write extendable django
views . In particular while working on a certain problem . I realized
that i was changing my views just to add certain context variables to
the standard views provided by an external django app.

I wonder generally people handle this:

The standard view provided by the lib returns something like

return render_to_response(template_name, {
        "form": form,
        "reply": reply,
        "tweets": tweets,
       }, context_instance=RequestContext(request)


what I need is :
return render_to_response(template_name, {
        "form": form,
        "reply": reply,
        "tweets": tweets
        "extra_context":extra_context,
       }, context_instance=RequestContext(request)

Note this is not some extra context I could have added through
middleware or context processor . I just wish to increase the
reusability of the view already written.
Any ideas.




-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 16:51:31 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 20:21:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Writing extendable django views
In-Reply-To: <CAN+DPADdNL_0zvv73KpfSuukR5rvwT55ZSh1=jHmnYO35m3d4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+DPADdNL_0zvv73KpfSuukR5rvwT55ZSh1=jHmnYO35m3d4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFSMf5dM7Db9-OSzJLXtnw0y02h4h9v11yEhZvEOKuAp9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Amit Sethi <amit.pureenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi all , This is just a thought
>
> The question is very abstract , how do you write extendable django
> views . In particular while working on a certain problem . I realized
> that i was changing my views just to add certain context variables to
> the standard views provided by an external django app.
>
> I wonder generally people handle this:
>
> The standard view provided by the lib returns something like
>
> return render_to_response(template_name, {
>        "form": form,
>        "reply": reply,
>        "tweets": tweets,
>       }, context_instance=RequestContext(request)
>
>
> what I need is :
> return render_to_response(template_name, {
>        "form": form,
>        "reply": reply,
>        "tweets": tweets
>        "extra_context":extra_context,
>       }, context_instance=RequestContext(request)
>
> Note this is not some extra context I could have added through
> middleware or context processor . I just wish to increase the
> reusability of the view already written.
> Any ideas.
>
>
I am not sure whether i understood your Q right. The context is just a dict
- why not keep adding to it?
OR did you mean, changing the signature of views.py so that its extendable
and can take in variable number of args?
IF the latter, then prefer to use "*args, **kwargs" as the params across
*all* your views right from day-1.

Again, am sorry if i did not gather your q right. Can you expatiate?

-V

From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Thu Jul  7 10:45:16 2011
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:15:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Writing extendable django views
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFSMf5dM7Db9-OSzJLXtnw0y02h4h9v11yEhZvEOKuAp9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+DPADdNL_0zvv73KpfSuukR5rvwT55ZSh1=jHmnYO35m3d4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFSMf5dM7Db9-OSzJLXtnw0y02h4h9v11yEhZvEOKuAp9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+DPABMQk0XmqMtutiQdRL3ovMkyoT9WHRAMAnZtHuRRRroGw@mail.gmail.com>

> I am not sure whether i understood your Q right. The context is just a dict
> - why not keep adding to it?
Yes I understand that however I was basically I was asking if there is
a standard followed or should there be a standard followed to do
something like that more
especially if you are writing a slightly generic app.



> OR did you mean, changing the signature of views.py so that its extendable
> and can take in variable number of args?
> IF the latter, then prefer to use "*args, **kwargs" as the params across
> *all* your views right from day-1.

That is a good idea . I think I will use that.




-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From hnsri49 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  7 11:28:43 2011
From: hnsri49 at gmail.com (srinivas hn)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:58:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1309946402.21807.bangpypers@python.org>
References: <mailman.9.1309946402.21807.bangpypers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAG5_3teW0rRYywu+HDjryj0Ma4K3Puz_4WVozA72j8efPCeLZw@mail.gmail.com>

+1

CHEERS
CNA
9986229891


On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM, <bangpypers-request at python.org> wrote:

> Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to
>        bangpypers at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>        bangpypers-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Twisted volunteers required (Senthil Kumaran)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 22:11:54 -0700
> From: Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com>
> To: bangpypers at python.org
> Subject: [BangPypers] Twisted volunteers required
> Message-ID: <20110706051154.GB2294 at mathmagic>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> If any of you like to volunteer their time for Twisted project, here
> are their requirements
>
>
> http://labs.twistedmatrix.com/2011/07/volunteers-needed-for-twisted-project.html
>
> Twisted is an excellent project with very high standards.  I would
> like to see if I could run a buildslave from my house.
>
> --
> Senthil
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
>
> End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
> *****************************************
>

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 15:13:17 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:43:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
Message-ID: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>


The Ruby Speed Center (which is similar to speed.pypy.org) uses
codespeed which is a Python/Django based application[1].

I think a lot of people get married to a language or a tool and stop
seeing the broader ecosystem which is unhealthy. I've also noticed that
the more accomplished people are (in any language), they stop being that
way (one notable example is Alex MArtelli in the Python community). 



Footnotes: 
[1]  http://speed.rubyspec.org/about/

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Everyone writes on the walls except me. -Said to be graffiti seen in Pompeii

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 16:26:24 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:56:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTyO5g+oE7Eak3ZbTg0dPTfSSmVUEFyOAGSZE_gULDHaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The Ruby Speed Center (which is similar to speed.pypy.org) uses
> codespeed which is a Python/Django based application[1].
>

So?


> I think a lot of people get married to a language or a tool and stop
> seeing the broader ecosystem which is unhealthy. I've also noticed that
> the more accomplished people are (in any language), they stop being that
> way (one notable example is Alex MArtelli in the Python community).
>

Not sure, what did he do?

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 16:38:32 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:08:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFTyO5g+oE7Eak3ZbTg0dPTfSSmVUEFyOAGSZE_gULDHaA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:56:24 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTyO5g+oE7Eak3ZbTg0dPTfSSmVUEFyOAGSZE_gULDHaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ipr851cn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Ruby Speed Center (which is similar to speed.pypy.org) uses
>> codespeed which is a Python/Django based application[1].
>>
>
> So?

I've just met a lot of people especially in language specific
communities who refuse to use a product just because it's in a different
language than what they tout. 

I wanted to give a counter example to start a "discussion"


>> I think a lot of people get married to a language or a tool and stop
>> seeing the broader ecosystem which is unhealthy. I've also noticed that
>> the more accomplished people are (in any language), they stop being that
>> way (one notable example is Alex MArtelli in the Python community).
>>
>
> Not sure, what did he do?

Look at the stuff he answers questions on (his badges here)
http://stackoverflow.com/users/95810/alex-martelli

This mail is intended to be a warning against getting stuck in a
language rut.


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

She used to diet on any kind of food she could lay her hands on. -- Arthur Baer, American comic and columnist

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 17:20:40 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:50:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87ipr851cn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTyO5g+oE7Eak3ZbTg0dPTfSSmVUEFyOAGSZE_gULDHaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ipr851cn.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFSiLUo+Gq5Q-bBPfYQgf4e9DUr7mqVzqPrQ36xkgT55YA@mail.gmail.com>

Ah ok. Probably i misread your email - it sounded to me as if you were not
happy with certain things in the py community.

-V

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 19:35:07 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 23:05:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] TDD Workshop
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6TTC2Szj5HCuzb_2T2JFHvU6er487=HqDX9PpjHksVgZw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure how many people will be interested in this, but I thought
I'll post anyway. We're launching our fledgeling training division in
a couple of weeks with a course in Test Driven Development - here's
the DoAttend link: http://c42-ruby-tdd-jul11.doattend.com

The only catch is that the course is delivered using Ruby, though (as
we point out on the registration page) the principles taught apply
when developing in any OO language. For a course of this nature, I
suspect that the differences between Python and Ruby will barely
surface (or even be relevant).

Thanks,
Sidu.
http://c42.in

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 11 23:58:49 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 03:28:49 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers]  [FREE] python/django training
Message-ID: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>

Date:30th July 2011(1 day boot camp)  , City :Delhi , Venue : USO house/JNU
university

For outsides Delhi such as People from Bangalore etc..might be webinar
arranged unless we send them whole tutorial source code /Video to then on
mail id

Prerequisites :
1)come with your laptop
2)better if have Linux/Mac as OS
3) for window no more support after bootcamp
4) training is free but no other services provided i.e food ..so come ready
with your own
5)Also send me mail about your confirmation with your  short Bio & why you
want attend, why to want learn django !
6) so meet @ USO house

Course:-

1)Django introduction Basic concept
2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better)
3)   Google app engine
4)  Creating Facebook app  using GAE +django
5) Web server set up & usage
6) Database setup & usage
7)  ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates
 (for views) + Forms + Much more
some updations soon
8) Pinax a Dajngo framework (web 3.0)

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 03:29:27 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 06:59:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Django Develeopers
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFShr4NKBUf=RwQAQp_Qk5YWY+uBwarVfO7bPQ282iAPUg@mail.gmail.com>

Can we have a roll call of developers who actively use Django?
Also, it would be great if you can mention where and how exactly you are
using.

-V

From subhodipbiswas at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 08:50:01 2011
From: subhodipbiswas at gmail.com (Subhodip Biswas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:20:01 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Small Hitch]Minidom and xml parsing.
Message-ID: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am fairly new to python and i am stuck with a problem.
What I am  trying to do is parse a xml file using minidom. My xml file
as almost a structure like this :

<someparentabove>
       <parent>
	      <child1>
	      </child1>
	      <child2>
	      </child2>
      </parent>
      <anotherparent>
      </anotherparent>
</someparentabove>

I can get parent along with childs using getElementsByTagName, But is
there a way I can get only the children (child1 and Child2)?


-------------
Thanks and Regards
Subhodip Biswas


GPG key : FAEA34AB
Server : pgp.mit.edu
http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com
http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 08:58:13 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:28:13 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Small Hitch]Minidom and xml parsing.
In-Reply-To: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFQhbUCkEA2jaa48JzqVOokQ=C1mifOutfR4OoYgj2RgGg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Subhodip Biswas
<subhodipbiswas at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> I am fairly new to python and i am stuck with a problem.
> What I am  trying to do is parse a xml file using minidom. My xml file
> as almost a structure like this :
>
> <someparentabove>
>       <parent>
>              <child1>
>              </child1>
>              <child2>
>              </child2>
>      </parent>
>      <anotherparent>
>      </anotherparent>
> </someparentabove>
>
> I can get parent along with childs using getElementsByTagName, But is
> there a way I can get only the children (child1 and Child2)?
>

x.getElementsByTagName("parent")[0].childNodes

Btw, you may want to try BeautifulSoup or if you want speed, try :
celementTree.

-V

From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 09:03:38 2011
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:33:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Small Hitch]Minidom and xml parsing.
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQhbUCkEA2jaa48JzqVOokQ=C1mifOutfR4OoYgj2RgGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFQhbUCkEA2jaa48JzqVOokQ=C1mifOutfR4OoYgj2RgGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+DPADfkSjn1GqGR5puBzFzVJmq_FPqKKAtUTMhpNCRBVb71g@mail.gmail.com>

[..]
>> I am fairly new to python and i am stuck with a problem.
>> What I am ?trying to do is parse a xml file using minidom. My xml file
>> as almost a structure like this :
>>
>> <someparentabove>
>> ? ? ? <parent>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<child1>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</child1>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<child2>
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</child2>
>> ? ? ?</parent>
>> ? ? ?<anotherparent>
>> ? ? ?</anotherparent>
>> </someparentabove>
Not knowing exactly what you are doing i would recommed using
.childNodes to iterate over all the children and use .childNodes to
see if there are no further children you are on child1 or child2


-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From nitin.nitp at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 10:44:19 2011
From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:14:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Small Hitch]Minidom and xml parsing.
In-Reply-To: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALqiT-t3ZuVRZSy5p--rmTu2FbK+=awKrhAZqXyhh2-3QuT2Mg@mail.gmail.com>

are you limited to use DOM?

if not then you can also use elementtree
for ex:

from xml.etree import ElementTree as ET
fp=open('try.xml')                         #your xml file
xmlData = fp.read()
tree = ET.XML( xmlData )
listroot = list(tree)

for item in listroot:
if(item.tag == "parent"):
for dcs in list(item):
dcs.tag


if you want to use dom parsing only then you can try this:

from xml.dom.minidom import parse
datasource = parse(fp)
for elem in datasource.getElementsByTagName('parent'):
for i in elem.childNodes:
i.nodeName
                print dir(i)

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Subhodip Biswas
<subhodipbiswas at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am fairly new to python and i am stuck with a problem.
> What I am  trying to do is parse a xml file using minidom. My xml file
> as almost a structure like this :
>
> <someparentabove>
>       <parent>
>              <child1>
>              </child1>
>              <child2>
>              </child2>
>      </parent>
>      <anotherparent>
>      </anotherparent>
> </someparentabove>
>
> I can get parent along with childs using getElementsByTagName, But is
> there a way I can get only the children (child1 and Child2)?
>
>
> -------------
> Thanks and Regards
> Subhodip Biswas
>
>
> GPG key : FAEA34AB
> Server : pgp.mit.edu
> http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com
> http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Nitin K

From subhodipbiswas at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 12:49:38 2011
From: subhodipbiswas at gmail.com (Subhodip Biswas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:19:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Small Hitch]Minidom and xml parsing.
In-Reply-To: <CAN+DPADfkSjn1GqGR5puBzFzVJmq_FPqKKAtUTMhpNCRBVb71g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAs13SwxwM6ERgTi1qrpYS7ZEWA_8kvNi2ZJ5J3LxtDD1WSReA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFQhbUCkEA2jaa48JzqVOokQ=C1mifOutfR4OoYgj2RgGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN+DPADfkSjn1GqGR5puBzFzVJmq_FPqKKAtUTMhpNCRBVb71g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAs13Sxb7X+NFW05LyY9JwMQfz6s9b9xk7BoTVJ0ZAmZo3Gnsg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,




On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Amit Sethi <amit.pureenergy at gmail.com> wrote:
> [..]
>>> I am fairly new to python and i am stuck with a problem.
>>> What I am ?trying to do is parse a xml file using minidom. My xml file
>>> as almost a structure like this :
>>>
>>> <someparentabove>
>>> ? ? ? <parent>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<child1>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</child1>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<child2>
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</child2>
>>> ? ? ?</parent>
>>> ? ? ?<anotherparent>
>>> ? ? ?</anotherparent>
>>> </someparentabove>
> Not knowing exactly what you are doing i would recommed using
> .childNodes to iterate over all the children and use .childNodes to
> see if there are no further children you are on child1 or child2
>

I have a soap call with a method someMethod(ChildType Child1,
ChildType2 Child2). I am trying to read and put in child1 and child2.
I can try to put in the whole xml(request) as a payload but that does
not work due to some internal error.

Element tree is good but I cannot go and change the minidom code
already written, anyways let me see If I can do something with these.

-------------
Regards
Subhodip Biswas


GPG key : FAEA34AB
Server : pgp.mit.edu
http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com
http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas

From renukaprasadb at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 20:27:23 2011
From: renukaprasadb at gmail.com (renukaprasadb at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:57:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:28 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Date:30th July 2011(1 day boot camp) ?, City :Delhi , Venue : USO house/JNU
> university
>
> For outsides Delhi such as People from Bangalore etc..might be webinar
> arranged unless we send them whole tutorial source code /Video to then on
> mail id
>
> Prerequisites :
> 1)come with your laptop
> 2)better if have Linux/Mac as OS
> 3) for window no more support after bootcamp
> 4) training is free but no other services provided i.e food ..so come ready
> with your own
> 5)Also send me mail about your confirmation with your ?short Bio & why you
> want attend, why to want learn django !
> 6) so meet @ USO house
>
> Course:-
>
> 1)Django introduction Basic concept
> 2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better)
> 3) ? Google app engine
> 4) ?Creating Facebook app ?using GAE +django
> 5) Web server set up & usage
> 6) Database setup & usage
> 7) ?ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates
> ?(for views) + Forms + Much more
> some updations soon
> 8) Pinax a Dajngo framework (web 3.0)

really a good initiative . all the best

how the people from bangalore could attend ( any arrangements made or
yet to decide ?)

> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Renuka Prasad
9901945674

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 12 21:56:37 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 01:26:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>

<Nope,till now no arrangement because there much more people interested that
i expect .I  also get some donations too but it is not possible make
arrangement more 50 people so it's better people from other city.
<But by next time i make arrangement  so people can come from outside also ,
so now no space here all 50 is full.but you can ping me a mail , so i can
send source code/video tutorial on your mail id!
< there are many query from Bangalore about 12 person till now ,but sorry to
guys funding is problem, not till next time In winter. no need to worry feel
free mail me regard any python/django/pinax related stuff

<You know i am expecting  toll about 30 people maximum , but people crazy
about Django so it reach to 50 those coming to venue & other  27
subscriber to source code .so Renuka next time i come up with full
arrangement Don't worry might be next time we organizes it in Bangalore in
WINTER(2011).

<soon we just gonna to lauch a website realted our community . Till now you
can get tutorial on my blog & all other updates, their also some good links
realted to stuff from novice to professional on my blog
<Blog link:http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com

Regards,
Vikash ruhil

From senthil at uthcode.com  Tue Jul 12 23:28:10 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 05:28:10 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:43:17PM +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:

> The Ruby Speed Center (which is similar to speed.pypy.org) uses
> codespeed which is a Python/Django based application[1].

And yeah, not to miss that many python based projects have started
using jenkins for CI which is Java based. :) Quite recently, my
experience with (good) developers is that everyone is picking up a
variety of languages and libraries for different tasks. The choice
seem to be with things that stack up well. For e.g using solr for
python webapps.

-- 
Senthil

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 01:21:41 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 04:51:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
Message-ID: <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 05:28 +0800, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> > The Ruby Speed Center (which is similar to speed.pypy.org) uses
> > codespeed which is a Python/Django based application[1].
> 
> And yeah, not to miss that many python based projects have started
> using jenkins for CI which is Java based. :) Quite recently, my
> experience with (good) developers is that everyone is picking up a
> variety of languages and libraries for different tasks. The choice
> seem to be with things that stack up well. For e.g using solr for
> python webapps. 

let us look at all points of view. In an ideal world, one chooses the
best tool for the job at hand. No quarrel. But the world is not ideal.
Compromises have to be made (or trade-offs). Given a task one has to
take into account deadlines, resources/skills available etc etc. Maybe
for a particular webapp Django is overkill - but do I have the time to
learn something more suitable (or the ability)? 
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From senthil at uthcode.com  Wed Jul 13 02:07:42 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:07:42 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20110713000742.GA6939@mathmagic>

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 04:51:41AM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> take into account deadlines, resources/skills available etc etc. Maybe
> for a particular webapp Django is overkill - but do I have the time to
> learn something more suitable (or the ability)? 

I understand your point. One may be expert one area, but should be
open to look and try others too and sure enough gaining expertise is
another thing and I am going there. My mere observation is this is
happening a lot these days. Choosing between frameworks in a language
seems to be lot less a hassle than say choosing the language itself.
This is a general statement and we all know something about
Generalization :)

Question to you (hypothetical) - You have two choices:

a) Choose Pyramid web-framework because the ORM works well the
existing database.

b) Java project with heavy interaction with database.

Which would you likely choose? My bet is a) because it is much easier
for a python programmer with django skills to do that than b).
Of course, you are free to invent your choices like c) quit and do
django elsewhere.


-- 
Senthil

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 02:22:48 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 05:52:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <20110713000742.GA6939@mathmagic>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<20110713000742.GA6939@mathmagic>
Message-ID: <1310516568.2348.249.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 08:07 +0800, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> Question to you (hypothetical) - You have two choices:
> 
> a) Choose Pyramid web-framework because the ORM works well the
> existing database.
> 
> b) Java project with heavy interaction with database.
> 
> Which would you likely choose? My bet is a) because it is much easier
> for a python programmer with django skills to do that than b).
> Of course, you are free to invent your choices like c) quit and do
> django elsewhere.
> 
> 

I know my limitations - a, if the client agrees or c. But I *have*
turned away work where my skill set does not fit. (I would not touch
java with a bargepole - if that is language fanaticism, so be it).
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 07:55:54 2011
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:25:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mk9upSD+B1AMiEPtw1o+kcmTUHQmfYK78fFtbZZTHjmtg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all ,
  I am from Bangalore(shifted 2 days back),I would love to attend.

Winning Regards
KraceKumar.R
http://kracekumar.wordpress.com

From shashidhar85 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 08:18:38 2011
From: shashidhar85 at gmail.com (Shashidhar Paragonda)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:48:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL2NvRydsxvurP4iu2iYOvK87LsR8Xk959-Ltb44xtAnJL0oNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Vikas

                really its nice initiative after the complete training
please send both source code, and video link so that we can share with
others who dint attended and also to people who are in need to get started
thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

> <Nope,till now no arrangement because there much more people interested
> that
> i expect .I  also get some donations too but it is not possible make
> arrangement more 50 people so it's better people from other city.
> <But by next time i make arrangement  so people can come from outside also
> ,
> so now no space here all 50 is full.but you can ping me a mail , so i can
> send source code/video tutorial on your mail id!
> < there are many query from Bangalore about 12 person till now ,but sorry
> to
> guys funding is problem, not till next time In winter. no need to worry
> feel
> free mail me regard any python/django/pinax related stuff
>
> <You know i am expecting  toll about 30 people maximum , but people crazy
> about Django so it reach to 50 those coming to venue & other  27
> subscriber to source code .so Renuka next time i come up with full
> arrangement Don't worry might be next time we organizes it in Bangalore in
> WINTER(2011).
>
> <soon we just gonna to lauch a website realted our community . Till now you
> can get tutorial on my blog & all other updates, their also some good links
> realted to stuff from novice to professional on my blog
> <Blog link:http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com
>
> Regards,
> Vikash ruhil
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
-----------------------------------
Regards,

Shashidhar N.Paragonda
shashidhar85 at gmail.com
+919449073835

From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 11:37:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:07:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 04:51:41 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> let us look at all points of view. In an ideal world, one chooses the
> best tool for the job at hand. No quarrel. But the world is not ideal.
> Compromises have to be made (or trade-offs). Given a task one has to
> take into account deadlines, resources/skills available etc etc. Maybe
> for a particular webapp Django is overkill - but do I have the time to
> learn something more suitable (or the ability)?

It's sometimes an option to simply use an app already available
(e.g. Wordpress for blogging) rather than to go out and build a custom
one. If building and deploying (and maintaining) a Django or Flask (or
rails for that matter) blogging app takes 6 hours whereas setting up a
wordpress blog takes 5 minutes, what would you chose?

In the ideal world, all apps would be super awesome and written in our
favourite languages. In the *real* world, good solutions exist in
multiple languages and not using them based just because they're not in
ones favourite language is language fanaticism and it's a bad thing.



-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

I can resist everything except temptation. -Oscar Wilde

From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 11:40:32 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:10:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310516568.2348.249.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 05:52:48 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<20110713000742.GA6939@mathmagic>
	<1310516568.2348.249.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87k4bma57z.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> writes:


[...]


>> a) Choose Pyramid web-framework because the ORM works well the
>> existing database.
>> 
>> b) Java project with heavy interaction with database.
>> 
>> Which would you likely choose? My bet is a) because it is much easier
>> for a python programmer with django skills to do that than b).
>> Of course, you are free to invent your choices like c) quit and do
>> django elsewhere.
>> 
>> 
>
> I know my limitations - a, if the client agrees or c. But I *have*
> turned away work where my skill set does not fit. (I would not touch
> java with a bargepole - if that is language fanaticism, so be it).

Maybe not code in the language but if something that already does what
your client wants exists in Java, would you stay away from it purely
because you don't like the language? (e.g. Solr for text indexing and
searching)



-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Procrastination means never having to say you're sorry.

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 11:53:30 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:23:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87k4bma57z.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<20110713000742.GA6939@mathmagic> <1310516568.2348.249.camel@localhost>
	<87k4bma57z.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1310550810.2348.310.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:10 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > I know my limitations - a, if the client agrees or c. But I *have*
> > turned away work where my skill set does not fit. (I would not touch
> > java with a bargepole - if that is language fanaticism, so be it).
> 
> Maybe not code in the language but if something that already does what
> your client wants exists in Java, would you stay away from it purely
> because you don't like the language? (e.g. Solr for text indexing and
> searching) 

no - as long as there is no need for me to touch the source. I use
freemind and josm very extensively.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 12:00:33 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:30:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:07 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> 
> > let us look at all points of view. In an ideal world, one chooses
> the
> > best tool for the job at hand. No quarrel. But the world is not
> ideal.
> > Compromises have to be made (or trade-offs). Given a task one has to
> > take into account deadlines, resources/skills available etc etc.
> Maybe
> > for a particular webapp Django is overkill - but do I have the time
> to
> > learn something more suitable (or the ability)?
> 
> It's sometimes an option to simply use an app already available
> (e.g. Wordpress for blogging) rather than to go out and build a custom
> one. If building and deploying (and maintaining) a Django or Flask (or
> rails for that matter) blogging app takes 6 hours whereas setting up a
> wordpress blog takes 5 minutes, what would you chose? 

django - I like to sleep at night. I use apps written in all sorts of
languages, but never have and never will use a php app - unless it is
set up and supported by someone else and is running on a system for
which I am in no way responsible.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 12:12:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:42:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's
	message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:30:33 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <87ei1ua3qt.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> django - I like to sleep at night. I use apps written in all sorts of
> languages, but never have and never will use a php app - unless it is
> set up and supported by someone else and is running on a system for
> which I am in no way responsible.

To each his own I guess. I don't see the logic in your position. 

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

It isn't an optical illusion. It just looks like one.

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 12:21:07 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:51:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > It's sometimes an option to simply use an app already available
> > (e.g. Wordpress for blogging) rather than to go out and build a custom
> > one. If building and deploying (and maintaining) a Django or Flask (or
> > rails for that matter) blogging app takes 6 hours whereas setting up a
> > wordpress blog takes 5 minutes, what would you chose?
>
> django - I like to sleep at night. I use apps written in all sorts of
> languages, but never have and never will use a php app - unless it is
> set up and supported by someone else and is running on a system for
> which I am in no way responsible.
>

why ?  any personal bad experience or some technical reasons?


-Satya
fossevents.in

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 12:47:52 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:17:52 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:51 +0530, satyaakam goswami wrote:
> > django - I like to sleep at night. I use apps written in all sorts
> of
> > languages, but never have and never will use a php app - unless it
> is
> > set up and supported by someone else and is running on a system for
> > which I am in no way responsible.
> >
> 
> why ?  any personal bad experience or some technical reasons? 

many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
than django has had in 6 *years*.

http://wordpress-security.net/wordpress-software-security-updates/
<<<--- do you want to live on the edge like this? 

Most LUG sites run php, maintained by 'experts' - they are regularly
spammed or cracked even when the most draconian lockdown/captchas are
implemented. Volunteers just do not have the time to spend half their
nights applying security patches. 
<quote>
Important note about updating Themes:
If you have made **any** changes to your theme (tweaking things in
style.css or changes to the template files), the changes will be
overwritten when the theme is updated. Be ready to re-do the changes
after updating.
<unquote>

what fun!
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From chinny143charan at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 13:32:40 2011
From: chinny143charan at gmail.com (charantej.S)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:02:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAL2NvRydsxvurP4iu2iYOvK87LsR8Xk959-Ltb44xtAnJL0oNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2NvRydsxvurP4iu2iYOvK87LsR8Xk959-Ltb44xtAnJL0oNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGSY0H_-KioL=+yfFFK3=2hsWbTBfRn7zHc1c81rmsprZiETeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Vikas

               Am from chennai. please send both source code, and video link
.
 thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Shashidhar Paragonda <
shashidhar85 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Vikas
>
>                really its nice initiative after the complete training
> please send both source code, and video link so that we can share with
> others who dint attended and also to people who are in need to get started
> thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > <Nope,till now no arrangement because there much more people interested
> > that
> > i expect .I  also get some donations too but it is not possible make
> > arrangement more 50 people so it's better people from other city.
> > <But by next time i make arrangement  so people can come from outside
> also
> > ,
> > so now no space here all 50 is full.but you can ping me a mail , so i can
> > send source code/video tutorial on your mail id!
> > < there are many query from Bangalore about 12 person till now ,but sorry
> > to
> > guys funding is problem, not till next time In winter. no need to worry
> > feel
> > free mail me regard any python/django/pinax related stuff
> >
> > <You know i am expecting  toll about 30 people maximum , but people crazy
> > about Django so it reach to 50 those coming to venue & other  27
> > subscriber to source code .so Renuka next time i come up with full
> > arrangement Don't worry might be next time we organizes it in Bangalore
> in
> > WINTER(2011).
> >
> > <soon we just gonna to lauch a website realted our community . Till now
> you
> > can get tutorial on my blog & all other updates, their also some good
> links
> > realted to stuff from novice to professional on my blog
> > <Blog link:http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vikash ruhil
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Regards,
>
> Shashidhar N.Paragonda
> shashidhar85 at gmail.com
> +919449073835
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Thanks & Regards,
CharanTej.S

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 13 13:55:21 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:25:21 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>

> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
> than django has had in 6 *years*.
That is based on strong correlation between PHP applications and poor
engineering.

If we're having a philosophical debate, the question then is 'What if
there was a hypothetical, well engineered open source PHP
application?'

I'm torn. Purely philosophically, I would be fine dealing with it
assuming I had the time to spare to learn PHP idioms, and that time
was otherwise spent solving real issues and not problems caused by
rubbish code. Practically though, PHP as a language makes my teeth
ache, and from what I've seen well factored PHP programs spend a lot
of time working around the limitations of the language. It's turing
complete, but pretty much the only other language that I've used that
I like less is XSLT.

I'll happily do Java if I have IntelliJ, but not without. Ditto C# if
I have ReSharper, though having to use Windows might put me off -
Windows *really* slows me down in terms of productivity. Python, Ruby,
Clojure, C++, C, JS etc. I'd be very interested in (assuming a clean,
well factored and well tested codebase, of course).

I suppose this means that I value productivity over pretty much
anything - I prefer working with languages, libraries, tools,
platforms and codebases that help me stay productive and avoid me
having to deal with bad code or waste time dealing with regressions.

Best,
Sidu.
http://c42.in

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:51 +0530, satyaakam goswami wrote:
>> > django - I like to sleep at night. I use apps written in all sorts
>> of
>> > languages, but never have and never will use a php app - unless it
>> is
>> > set up and supported by someone else and is running on a system for
>> > which I am in no way responsible.
>> >
>>
>> why ? ?any personal bad experience or some technical reasons?
>
> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
> than django has had in 6 *years*.
>
> http://wordpress-security.net/wordpress-software-security-updates/
> <<<--- do you want to live on the edge like this?
>
> Most LUG sites run php, maintained by 'experts' - they are regularly
> spammed or cracked even when the most draconian lockdown/captchas are
> implemented. Volunteers just do not have the time to spend half their
> nights applying security patches.
> <quote>
> Important note about updating Themes:
> If you have made **any** changes to your theme (tweaking things in
> style.css or changes to the template files), the changes will be
> overwritten when the theme is updated. Be ready to re-do the changes
> after updating.
> <unquote>
>
> what fun!
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 06:33:37 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:03:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Sidu Ponnappa's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:25:21 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com> writes:

>> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
>> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
>> than django has had in 6 *years*.
> That is based on strong correlation between PHP applications and poor
> engineering.
>
> If we're having a philosophical debate, the question then is 'What if
> there was a hypothetical, well engineered open source PHP
> application?'
>
> I'm torn. Purely philosophically, I would be fine dealing with it
> assuming I had the time to spare to learn PHP idioms, and that time
> was otherwise spent solving real issues and not problems caused by
> rubbish code. Practically though, PHP as a language makes my teeth
> ache, and from what I've seen well factored PHP programs spend a lot
> of time working around the limitations of the language. It's turing
> complete, but pretty much the only other language that I've used that
> I like less is XSLT.

It has more than a fair share of rough spots but it also has it's own
advantages. 

I think PHP is like english in the sense, it's easy to speak/write even
when ones control over the language is minimal. YOu can get a whole web
site up and running quickly without knowing much. THis has spawned a
series of poorly engineered apps which (because worse is better) have
hit the net. 

However, there are really large deployments of PHP out there which are
quite stable. archive.org, facebook, wikipedia and (as I heard from the
recent PHPCloud conference here), Flipkart. So, given a good team, you
can get things right. 

This whole thing is a digression though. 

My basic point is that if there's a tool written already that *does* the
job you want done, would you stay away from it purely because its not in
your favourite language?

My outlook is that code is liability. If I can get the job done without
"writing" code, that's probably what I'll do. 

Wordpress is probably the poster boy for poorly engineered PHP apps but
I'd prefer using it (and applying security patches when they come out)
rather than writing (and more importantly spending time maintaining) my
own blogging app in the latest and greatest Python framework. 

As for Kenneth's points on the LUG sites, they're simply poorly
maintained. A lot of high profile secure sites run on PHP so it's a moot
argument. 



[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Our similarities are different. -Dale Berra, son of Yogi

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 07:01:30 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:31:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>

>> why ? ?any personal bad experience or some technical reasons?
>
> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
> than django has had in 6 *years*.
>
> http://wordpress-security.net/wordpress-software-security-updates/
> <<<--- do you want to live on the edge like this?
>
> Most LUG sites run php, maintained by 'experts' - they are regularly
> spammed or cracked even when the most draconian lockdown/captchas are
> implemented. Volunteers just do not have the time to spend half their
> nights applying security patches.
> <quote>
> Important note about updating Themes:
> If you have made **any** changes to your theme (tweaking things in
> style.css or changes to the template files), the changes will be
> overwritten when the theme is updated. Be ready to re-do the changes
> after updating.
> <unquote>
>
> what fun!

I don't understand how Django apps can automatically guarantee a
certain level of security while PHP applications can't. Are you trying
to indicate that each and every Django app that you've built is free
from any security hole?

IMHO if an application is insecure, it's the programmer who is to
blame and not the language/framework.

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 07:18:20 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:48:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Baishampayan Ghose's message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:31:30 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8739i9san7.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> I don't understand how Django apps can automatically guarantee a
> certain level of security while PHP applications can't. Are you trying
> to indicate that each and every Django app that you've built is free
> from any security hole?

Some languages and frameworks encourage practices that are more secure
than others. Raw PHP doesn't, for example, doesn't escape HTML from user
input. The Django templating system can take care of that. 

But your second point is valid. I'd put more faith in an app that has
been out there in wild for a few years, has had security problems and
which has responded appropriately rather than something homebrewn I
wrote in a day or two that only I have seen.


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

After they got rid of capital punishment, they had to hang twice as many people as before.

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 07:27:27 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:57:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAP915yVFDedL9ZpUuXawXSOzw9NnJnDPEC+jCZT3hCUe3ztvrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
>>> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
>>> than django has had in 6 *years*.
>> That is based on strong correlation between PHP applications and poor
>> engineering.
>>
>> If we're having a philosophical debate, the question then is 'What if
>> there was a hypothetical, well engineered open source PHP
>> application?'
>>
>> I'm torn. Purely philosophically, I would be fine dealing with it
>> assuming I had the time to spare to learn PHP idioms, and that time
>> was otherwise spent solving real issues and not problems caused by
>> rubbish code. Practically though, PHP as a language makes my teeth
>> ache, and from what I've seen well factored PHP programs spend a lot
>> of time working around the limitations of the language. It's turing
>> complete, but pretty much the only other language that I've used that
>> I like less is XSLT.
>
> It has more than a fair share of rough spots but it also has it's own
> advantages.
>
> I think PHP is like english in the sense, it's easy to speak/write even
> when ones control over the language is minimal. YOu can get a whole web
> site up and running quickly without knowing much. THis has spawned a
> series of poorly engineered apps which (because worse is better) have
> hit the net.
>
> However, there are really large deployments of PHP out there which are
> quite stable. archive.org, facebook, wikipedia and (as I heard from the
> recent PHPCloud conference here), Flipkart. So, given a good team, you
> can get things right.
>
> This whole thing is a digression though.
>
> My basic point is that if there's a tool written already that *does* the
> job you want done, would you stay away from it purely because its not in
> your favourite language?
>
> My outlook is that code is liability. If I can get the job done without
> "writing" code, that's probably what I'll do.

Very important point here.

I guess problem with a ready to use app whether written in Python or
PHP would be one of flexibility and scalability, and would not depend
on the language, but on how the original developer has designed.

While Noufal is right, that if all I need is a blog, then create it in
wordpress or any of the other freebie stuff. Problem starts when you
want the blog to be heavily customized, like another content driven
site, you have no choice but dirty your hands. Question is whether you
want to write Python or PHP at that time.



>
> Wordpress is probably the poster boy for poorly engineered PHP apps but
> I'd prefer using it (and applying security patches when they come out)
> rather than writing (and more importantly spending time maintaining) my
> own blogging app in the latest and greatest Python framework.
>
> As for Kenneth's points on the LUG sites, they're simply poorly
> maintained. A lot of high profile secure sites run on PHP so it's a moot
> argument.
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> ~noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
>
> Our similarities are different. -Dale Berra, son of Yogi
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Ramdas S
+91 9342 583 065

From tejasdinkar at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 07:51:33 2011
From: tejasdinkar at gmail.com (Tejas Dinkar)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 11:21:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+BGknj1zsmotC3GQ6oiioHva6ZW-VTfBzz2ZAXTuLjmqXsrXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO if an application is insecure, it's the programmer who is to
> blame and not the language/framework.

While it is true that the responsibility is squarely on the programmer
to make sure the app is secure, some frameworks do provide better
features for security baked in, to take care of various types of
security holes.

For example, ruby provides string tainting [1], to make sure that SQL
injection becomes next to impossible.

All frameworks exist to help people develop their apps, and should
have some documented ways to stop common attacks. Whether your app is
secure is a function of which patterns for security the programmer is
used to, and which patterns the framework lends itself to naturally.

However, a talented programmer leave security holes in any
application, regardless of the framework ;-).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taint_checking

From sesh at boltell.com  Thu Jul 14 08:59:31 2011
From: sesh at boltell.com (Sesh)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:29:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Commercial] - Job Posting for Awesome Front End and
 Backend Django Python Developers..
Message-ID: <CAHso1xtBe_BAQQxZGgBQd5OVuuWei2o_HL225y88-g4RdAw-Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Folks,

  We are looking for very good front end developers for developing a
new ecommerce web site. www.boltell.com has a quick summary of what
kind of people we are looking for and why we are doing ecommerce.
  I do not want to spam a group such as this which discusses tons of
useful, important technical stuff and so will take all
questions/clarifications  offline on the phone or on email
(sesh at boltell.com).

Warm Regards
Sesh


-- 
Linkedin Profile:  http://in.linkedin.com/in/srinivasanseshadri
Mobile: +91 9740206697

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 09:26:25 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:56:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6StTu91FrQwpYnvAyNCcqvYaOyk4Z8KcMPAUp5aKvGDWQ@mail.gmail.com>

> My outlook is that code is liability. If I can get the job done without
> "writing" code, that's probably what I'll do.
Agreed.

Best,
Sidu.
http://c42.in

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> many bitter experiences - security is a nightmare for php apps. Take a
>>> look at the number of security updates wordpress has per *month* - more
>>> than django has had in 6 *years*.
>> That is based on strong correlation between PHP applications and poor
>> engineering.
>>
>> If we're having a philosophical debate, the question then is 'What if
>> there was a hypothetical, well engineered open source PHP
>> application?'
>>
>> I'm torn. Purely philosophically, I would be fine dealing with it
>> assuming I had the time to spare to learn PHP idioms, and that time
>> was otherwise spent solving real issues and not problems caused by
>> rubbish code. Practically though, PHP as a language makes my teeth
>> ache, and from what I've seen well factored PHP programs spend a lot
>> of time working around the limitations of the language. It's turing
>> complete, but pretty much the only other language that I've used that
>> I like less is XSLT.
>
> It has more than a fair share of rough spots but it also has it's own
> advantages.
>
> I think PHP is like english in the sense, it's easy to speak/write even
> when ones control over the language is minimal. YOu can get a whole web
> site up and running quickly without knowing much. THis has spawned a
> series of poorly engineered apps which (because worse is better) have
> hit the net.
>
> However, there are really large deployments of PHP out there which are
> quite stable. archive.org, facebook, wikipedia and (as I heard from the
> recent PHPCloud conference here), Flipkart. So, given a good team, you
> can get things right.
>
> This whole thing is a digression though.
>
> My basic point is that if there's a tool written already that *does* the
> job you want done, would you stay away from it purely because its not in
> your favourite language?
>
> My outlook is that code is liability. If I can get the job done without
> "writing" code, that's probably what I'll do.
>
> Wordpress is probably the poster boy for poorly engineered PHP apps but
> I'd prefer using it (and applying security patches when they come out)
> rather than writing (and more importantly spending time maintaining) my
> own blogging app in the latest and greatest Python framework.
>
> As for Kenneth's points on the LUG sites, they're simply poorly
> maintained. A lot of high profile secure sites run on PHP so it's a moot
> argument.
>
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> ~noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
>
> Our similarities are different. -Dale Berra, son of Yogi
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 11:03:22 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:33:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 10:31 +0530, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
> > what fun!
> 
> I don't understand how Django apps can automatically guarantee a
> certain level of security while PHP applications can't. Are you trying
> to indicate that each and every Django app that you've built is free
> from any security hole?

I would not know - I use standard django with no extra security. When
they announce that there is a hole, (which they have done twice in the
last 6 years) I just do an 'svn up'.
> 
> IMHO if an application is insecure, it's the programmer who is to
> blame and not the language/framework.

while broadly true, you really need to work at it to make a django app
insecure while you really need to work very hard to make a php app
secure. 
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From careers at mquotient.net  Thu Jul 14 12:47:08 2011
From: careers at mquotient.net (Careers Account)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:17:08 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python /Django Sr. Developer/Developer openings in
	Pune, India
In-Reply-To: <8917ed48-9c49-404b-960a-533488e904af@28g2000pry.googlegroups.com>
References: <8917ed48-9c49-404b-960a-533488e904af@28g2000pry.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMLSDEYb=8f_DvzvDgNtJ04NpcocEr_t4PcC9+KfOdoT_bHCrw@mail.gmail.com>

We are in need of bright and enthusiastic Python/Django developers for Linux
environment (minimum 1-2 years of work experience, 3-4 years is better) that
can help us develop / accelerate development out our next generation
enterprise applications. We are also open to considering really smart
individuals who may not know Python, but have outstanding coding abilities,
preferably in multiple languages in Linux/Unix environments.

Here's a quick snippet about our firm, mquotient :
- mquotient is building innovative commercial enterprise applications for
improving business processes (some of these products include Artificial
Intelligence based OCR tools to convert handwritten forms to digital
characters with a very high accuracy, Charging gateways for telecom/network
operators and LMS/CRM and peripherals that are miles ahead of the
competition).
- We already have a few large brand customers and continue to expand
aggressively in both BFSI and Telecom verticals.
- We're based in Koregaon Park, Pune in the heart of the city, and the
vicinity of all possible amenities (great coffee shops, outstanding
restaurants, nice hotels, shopping) all at a stones throw, literally!
- We're a great work environment with a bright set of team members, and
operate without hierarchies. We're looking for developers who love working
on multiple challenges simultaneously. Whether it's server-side Python web
application code, front-end GUI development, or data crunching and analysis
in SQL, every day brings a new set of interesting problems to solve and
technologies to explore. In short, we're an ideal place for those seeking
continuous intellectual stimulation.

Send us your resumes, references and some samples of your best work at
careers at mquotient dot net  and we shall be in touch with you shortly.

Ideal technical skill summary:
Languages: Python, PHP. Optional : Java, C/C++
Frameworks: Django, CakePHP
OS: Linux or Windows
Database: MySQL / Mongo DB/ Redis

From careers at mquotient.net  Thu Jul 14 12:49:02 2011
From: careers at mquotient.net (Careers Account)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:19:02 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] CTO/ Principal Technical Architect for enterprise
	software firm, Pune India
In-Reply-To: <26cf5f1e-5263-44a0-8911-4fb0e6b72d1e@m6g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <26cf5f1e-5263-44a0-8911-4fb0e6b72d1e@m6g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAMLSDEY25DPf_N4+cRvf-tF2WWDVupzN0PnbKogOs6ULvEAbAQ@mail.gmail.com>

mquotient is seeking an outstanding technologist in a CTO / Principal
Technical Architect role to help design, build, scale and implement next
generation of enterprise applications.

RESPONSIBILITIES:
? Helps design, build, scale and manage the implementation of next
generation enterprise applications
? Make strong and effective infrastructure, stack/protocol/standards, and
technology implementation decisions that will allow both the startup and the
customer business to scale appropriately
? Lead and build a technology team

REQUIRED SKILLS & EXPERIENCE:
? 5-10 years of prior development/technology experience. Prior role held
should have been one of Lead Technologist/Sr Engineer/Architect at a
mid-sized/large firm or VP of Engineering/CTO of a startup entity
? Formal team management and leadership experience, having led at least
minimum team of 5-10 developers
? Strong communication and interpersonal skills including: able to lead
whiteboard sessions, create technical specifications, debate technical
tradeoffs, and explain technical concepts to business users
? Superior project management and implementation experience
? Experience collaborating and negotiating with product managers, customers
and vendors to determine the most optimal technical design
? ?Roll-up your sleeves? attitude to get things done (read hands on code
development and code review) and hard-charging drive to succeed

IDEAL CANDIDATES WILL HAVE:
? Knowledgeable about multiple technologies and their trade-offs,
particularly focusing on web technologies, databases, development frameworks
? Experienced in building enterprise products with client-server
architecture with complex database design
? Proven experience estimating, planning, designing, and implementing n-tier
software architectures and solutions
? Experience building scalable, flexible, robust and secure architecture for
high-traffic applications
? Experience with Linux, Cloud Computing, open source systems development
and some experience with basic systems maintenance and administration
? Experience supporting operational infrastructure/services (especially in a
startup/small organization)
? Although not necessary, some exposure to financials industry segment and
back-office systems of financial institutions is desirable
? B.E./B. Tech in Computer Science, Engineering
? Demonstrable evidence of passion, technical expertise, and accomplishment

DESIRED PERSONAL PROFILE
? Ambitious, intelligent, self-starter
? Passionate and intimately knowledgeable about all things technology

IDEAL TECHNICAL SKILL SUMMARY:
Languages: Python, PHP, Java, JS, HTML
Frameworks: Django, CakePHP
OS: Linux or Windows
Database: MySQL / Mongo DB/ Redis
Protocols: Strong fundamentals in Web protocols like REST, SOAP, XML- RPC
etc.

BRIEF ABOUT MQUOTIENT:
? mquotient builds innovative commercial enterprise applications for
improving business processes (one such product is an Artificial Intelligence
based OCR tools to convert handwritten forms to digital characters with a
very high accuracy).
? We're fast becoming a commercial success with few large brand customers in
both BFSI and Telecom verticals.
? We're based in Koregaon Park, Pune in the heart of the city, and the
vicinity of all possible amenities, literally!
? We're a great work environment with a bright set of team members, and
operate without hierarchies. Our development team loves to work on multiple
challenges simultaneously. Every day brings a new set of interesting
problems to solve and technologies to explore. In short, we're an ideal
place for those seeking continuous intellectual stimulation.
? We offer a competitive compensation and additionally, a meaningful equity
ownership.

Send us your resume, references and some samples of your best work at
 careers at mquotient dot net  and we shall be in touch with you shortly.

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 15:48:23 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:18:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFRDOv=5bxcA4WDSHOm5eeAwSGrrr34UR3yhk+fLifLmGg@mail.gmail.com>

Never seen KG type so much till now ;)

-V

From akarsh.sanghi at gmail.com  Thu Jul 14 17:44:15 2011
From: akarsh.sanghi at gmail.com (AKARSH SANGHI)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:14:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAGSY0H_-KioL=+yfFFK3=2hsWbTBfRn7zHc1c81rmsprZiETeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2NvRydsxvurP4iu2iYOvK87LsR8Xk959-Ltb44xtAnJL0oNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGSY0H_-KioL=+yfFFK3=2hsWbTBfRn7zHc1c81rmsprZiETeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM2QRP9oJuWX=pR=YxPV+aehop5qSfxiyVJ8guGBj2QhA+e3eA@mail.gmail.com>

I will be there !!

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 5:02 PM, charantej.S <chinny143charan at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Vikas
>
>               Am from chennai. please send both source code, and video link
> .
>  thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Shashidhar Paragonda <
> shashidhar85 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Vikas
> >
> >                really its nice initiative after the complete training
> > please send both source code, and video link so that we can share with
> > others who dint attended and also to people who are in need to get
> started
> > thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > <Nope,till now no arrangement because there much more people interested
> > > that
> > > i expect .I  also get some donations too but it is not possible make
> > > arrangement more 50 people so it's better people from other city.
> > > <But by next time i make arrangement  so people can come from outside
> > also
> > > ,
> > > so now no space here all 50 is full.but you can ping me a mail , so i
> can
> > > send source code/video tutorial on your mail id!
> > > < there are many query from Bangalore about 12 person till now ,but
> sorry
> > > to
> > > guys funding is problem, not till next time In winter. no need to worry
> > > feel
> > > free mail me regard any python/django/pinax related stuff
> > >
> > > <You know i am expecting  toll about 30 people maximum , but people
> crazy
> > > about Django so it reach to 50 those coming to venue & other  27
> > > subscriber to source code .so Renuka next time i come up with full
> > > arrangement Don't worry might be next time we organizes it in Bangalore
> > in
> > > WINTER(2011).
> > >
> > > <soon we just gonna to lauch a website realted our community . Till now
> > you
> > > can get tutorial on my blog & all other updates, their also some good
> > links
> > > realted to stuff from novice to professional on my blog
> > > <Blog link:http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Vikash ruhil
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shashidhar N.Paragonda
> > shashidhar85 at gmail.com
> > +919449073835
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks & Regards,
> CharanTej.S
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 

Akarsh Sanghi
Jaypee Institute of Information Technology University
Undergraduate Student Class of 2013
Mob: (+91)-9818489945
Email: akarsh.sanghi at gmail.com

From lawgon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 03:58:30 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:28:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFRDOv=5bxcA4WDSHOm5eeAwSGrrr34UR3yhk+fLifLmGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic> <1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>
	<CAN7tdFRDOv=5bxcA4WDSHOm5eeAwSGrrr34UR3yhk+fLifLmGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1310695110.2367.27.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 19:18 +0530, Venkatraman S wrote:
> Never seen KG type so much till now ;)

finally getting some speed with Dvorak.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 10:11:47 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:41:47 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
Message-ID: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to setup an instance of infogami (without openlibrary etc),
but running into problems. I think I might have made some basic config
error, probably could be easily fixed.

This is what I did:

created a new virtualenv
cloned from https://github.com/openlibrary/infogami.git
installed web.py==0.33
installed simplejson and pyyaml
createdb infogami
edited the sample_infogami.yml for the db name, user
ran sample_run.py --createsite
ran sample_run.py


At this point, I can visit http://0.0.0.0:8080 and I see the home page

Had some issues registering as a new user, but I got admin to login.

So, when I try:

http://0.0.0.0:8080/?m=edit

I hit an exception:


<type 'exceptions.AssertionError'> at /
Python	/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/core/db.py in
new_version, line 36
Web	GET http://0.0.0.0:8080/



The "/type/page" seems not to exist

http://0.0.0.0:8080/type does not list all types
http://0.0.0.0:8080/type/page does not exist

/type/type, /type/user exists though


Could anyone provide some suggestions?

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

From sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 10:42:35 2011
From: sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com (Sibtey Mehdi)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:12:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] how to Identify file type
Message-ID: <CAK-+wgxbG49BqmnGtJPBMFaXUtkvUxLREVYujp2ZR5px-1bDHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ,

I am writing a script in python to identify the type of a file.In most of
the cases I got the correct file type on the basis of file extension.
Is there any way to identify a PLSQL, TSQL or SQl file as these files may
have the same 'sql' extension.

Thanks
Sibtey

From gora at mimirtech.com  Fri Jul 15 10:55:05 2011
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:25:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] how to Identify file type
In-Reply-To: <CAK-+wgxbG49BqmnGtJPBMFaXUtkvUxLREVYujp2ZR5px-1bDHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-+wgxbG49BqmnGtJPBMFaXUtkvUxLREVYujp2ZR5px-1bDHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACiMRG+qpjm2u=3mJ2rZwDViX=w7NF-wnayytdT7ZOfPqod_sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Sibtey Mehdi <sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi ,
>
> I am writing a script in python to identify the type of a file.In most of
> the cases I got the correct file type on the basis of file extension.
> Is there any way to identify a PLSQL, TSQL or SQl file as these files may
> have the same 'sql' extension.

Going by the extension is unreliable. If you are OK with running
on a Linux (probably also other UNIX systems that support libmagic),
you can use python-magic which provides bindings to libmagic:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-magic/

Regards,
Gora

From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 11:18:20 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:48:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Django Develeopers
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFShr4NKBUf=RwQAQp_Qk5YWY+uBwarVfO7bPQ282iAPUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN7tdFShr4NKBUf=RwQAQp_Qk5YWY+uBwarVfO7bPQ282iAPUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVKzYPj5TzK56G1V+G8KmmXN1f2--0ZN+SWkYMGAKK6_m4Spg@mail.gmail.com>

We at www.alokin.in use Django in all our projects, both in-house as
well as consulting projects.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can we have a roll call of developers who actively use Django?
> Also, it would be great if you can mention where and how exactly you are
> using.
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From anandology at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 11:41:00 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:11:00 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/15 Rajeev J Sebastian <rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to setup an instance of infogami (without openlibrary etc),
> but running into problems. I think I might have made some basic config
> error, probably could be easily fixed.
>
> This is what I did:
>
> created a new virtualenv
> cloned from https://github.com/openlibrary/infogami.git
> installed web.py==0.33
> installed simplejson and pyyaml
> createdb infogami
> edited the sample_infogami.yml for the db name, user
> ran sample_run.py --createsite
> ran sample_run.py
>
>
> At this point, I can visit http://0.0.0.0:8080 and I see the home page
>
> Had some issues registering as a new user, but I got admin to login.
>
> So, when I try:
>
> http://0.0.0.0:8080/?m=edit
>
> I hit an exception:
>
>
> <type 'exceptions.AssertionError'> at /
> Python ?/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/core/db.py in
> new_version, line 36
> Web ? ? GET http://0.0.0.0:8080/
>
>
>
> The "/type/page" seems not to exist
>
> http://0.0.0.0:8080/type does not list all types
> http://0.0.0.0:8080/type/page does not exist
>
> /type/type, /type/user exists though
>
>
> Could anyone provide some suggestions?

Try running sample_run.py install

Anand

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 12:18:24 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:48:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4PtqXWp3kvZGzPa+1LxVor=4eKRVuKZAoRCDWMS1jEFJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> My basic point is that if there's a tool written already that *does* the
> job you want done, would you stay away from it purely because its not in
> your favourite language?
>

No.

Boils down to whether I am going to be a user or a developer. If I am just
going to "use" a blogging platform - wordpress makes a lot of sense to use
simply because you can have a blog up and running before you can even
schedule a meeting to decide what features one needs to build in the
blogging platform. And if the incremental changes are look and feel or
rather modest in their reach - its far easier to just outsource. It all
stems from how one values customers money and one's own time. If I am going
to use the blog just as a starting point for a much bigger CMS, then a whole
host of issues such as self's skills, proclivities, team skills, skill
availability, learning curve, platform features, performance features, all
need to get factored in.

I suspect it all boils down to whether I value my time and my customer's
money over or under my preferred language. Once thats clear - the path ahead
also is.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
<http://twitter.com/dnene>google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 12:20:25 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:50:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAJ3UTY+iTM-WJ+2ir8zLqFLHs7fe6LAiu+XGdawAJDuoFg4OCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310634202.2367.17.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4MySKxQW7uqNOYgG7MxjrwXODJ-gwtiCDOohMMryfj9zA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 10:31 +0530, Baishampayan Ghose wrote:
> > > what fun!
> >
> > I don't understand how Django apps can automatically guarantee a
> > certain level of security while PHP applications can't. Are you trying
> > to indicate that each and every Django app that you've built is free
> > from any security hole?
>
> I would not know - I use standard django with no extra security. When
> they announce that there is a hole, (which they have done twice in the
> last 6 years) I just do an 'svn up'.
>
> Hmm.. I've seen people invest enormous amounts of time and money in
building far more into security than whats provided by the language or the
platform. Built in security features in the platform are critical, but only
the starting point on a very long road.

Dhananjay

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
<http://twitter.com/dnene>google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 12:47:04 2011
From: sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com (Sibtey Mehdi)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:17:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Opening in Noida
Message-ID: <CAK-+wgwX23gCiE1iLv2m7HB=f1KVvAh209rVOn-1mfyhmTjVYw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We are recruiting python developers having more than 2 years of experience,
Interested candidates can send their resume to me at sibteym at brickred.com

for more info - http://www.brickred.com/

Thanks,
Sibtey

From abpillai at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 13:15:58 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:45:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Opening in Noida
In-Reply-To: <CAK-+wgwX23gCiE1iLv2m7HB=f1KVvAh209rVOn-1mfyhmTjVYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-+wgwX23gCiE1iLv2m7HB=f1KVvAh209rVOn-1mfyhmTjVYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACpj97DbxGkfR63GctmRhEDsV2yNuronHMu3CPkyfFWH+qH5dA@mail.gmail.com>

Please prefix [JOB] in the subject line for job postings or
career related postings.

--Anand

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Sibtey Mehdi <sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are recruiting python developers having more than 2 years of experience,
> Interested candidates can send their resume to me at sibteym at brickred.com
>
> for more info - http://www.brickred.com/
>
> Thanks,
> Sibtey
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
--Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 13:15:46 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:45:46 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Opening in Noida
In-Reply-To: <CAK-+wgwX23gCiE1iLv2m7HB=f1KVvAh209rVOn-1mfyhmTjVYw@mail.gmail.com>
	(Sibtey Mehdi's message of "Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:17:04 +0530")
References: <CAK-+wgwX23gCiE1iLv2m7HB=f1KVvAh209rVOn-1mfyhmTjVYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87sjq74wwt.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Sibtey Mehdi <sibtey.mehdi at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> We are recruiting python developers having more than 2 years of experience,
> Interested candidates can send their resume to me at sibteym at brickred.com
>
> for more info - http://www.brickred.com/

If it is in Noida, you should consider posting to the
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/ncr-python.in
list as well. 

Also, please prefix [JOB] in your subject. People often use it in their
mail filters. n

[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Talking about a piece of movie dialogue: Let's have some new cliches. -Samuel Goldwyn

From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 15:15:01 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:45:01 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVKzYNho_yhKk8WXuKFdO2d9Hoo7Ub5brpibCcifBT1hJORZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Could anyone provide some suggestions?
>
> Try running sample_run.py install


Hi Anand,

Could you suggest the best git branch of infogami to clone? The one I
have throws this exception:

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

movetemplates
/
/_echo
/([^_/][^/]*)
/([^/]*)/get
/([^/]*)/get_many
/([^/]*)/save(/.*)
/([^/]*)/save_many
/([^/]*)/reindex
/([^/]*)/new_key
/([^/]*)/things
/([^/]*)/versions
/([^/]*)/write
/([^/]*)/account/(.*)
/
/_echo
/([^_/][^/]*)
/([^/]*)/get
/([^/]*)/get_many
/([^/]*)/save(/.*)
/([^/]*)/save_many
/([^/]*)/reindex
/([^/]*)/new_key
/([^/]*)/things
/([^/]*)/versions
/([^/]*)/write
No handlers could be found for logger "infobase"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/server.py",
line 81, in g
    d = f(self, *a, **kw)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/server.py",
line 209, in POST
    result = site.write(query, comment=i.comment, action=i.action)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/infobase.py",
line 131, in write
    changeset = self.store.save_many(items, timestamp, comment, data,
ip, author and author.key, action=action)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/dbstore.py",
line 145, in save_many
    logger.debug("saving %d docs - %s", len(docs),
dict(timestamp=timestamp, comment=comment, data=data, ip=ip,
author=author, action=action))
TypeError: object of type 'generator' has no len()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./run.py", line 39, in <module>
    infogami.run()
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/__init__.py",
line 140, in run
    run_action(args[0], args[1:])
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/__init__.py",
line 127, in run_action
    a(*args)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/__init__.py",
line 97, in install
    a()
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/plugins/wikitemplates/code.py",
line 209, in movetemplates
    result = web.ctx.site.write(templates)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/client.py",
line 363, in write
    result = self._request('/write', 'POST', dict(query=_query,
comment=comment, action=action))
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/client.py",
line 209, in _request
    out = self._conn.request(self.name, path, method, data)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/client.py",
line 97, in request
    out = server.request(path, method, data)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/server.py",
line 602, in request
    return tocall(*args)
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/server.py",
line 92, in g
    process_exception(common.InfobaseException(error="internal_error",
message=str(e)))
  File "/Users/kane/venvs/infogami/infogami/infogami/infobase/server.py",
line 63, in process_exception
    raise web.HTTPError(status, {}, msg)
web.webapi.HTTPError: 500 Internal Server Error

From kunal.t2 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 15:21:55 2011
From: kunal.t2 at gmail.com (kunal ghosh)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:51:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
Message-ID: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
considered for the job.

But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly means ,
"corporate experience"
( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
use these technologies
in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
Even though they might have worked with those technologies for a much longer
duration than
the "experienced" ones ?

looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.

-- 
regards,

Kunal Ghosh

From anandology at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 15:45:28 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:15:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAHVKzYNho_yhKk8WXuKFdO2d9Hoo7Ub5brpibCcifBT1hJORZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVKzYNho_yhKk8WXuKFdO2d9Hoo7Ub5brpibCcifBT1hJORZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFw=6zmtKjznd2dfP-jnwGPoTDLHctj0E7-jLcF5hAyFuQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/15 Rajeev J Sebastian <rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Could anyone provide some suggestions?
>>
>> Try running sample_run.py install
>
>
> Hi Anand,
>
> Could you suggest the best git branch of infogami to clone? The one I
> have throws this exception:
[...]

Use https://github.com/infogami/infogami

I pushed some changes just now, including a fix for install.

Anand

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 15:46:43 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:16:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> considered for the job.
>
> But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly means ,
> "corporate experience"
> ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
> use these technologies
> in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
> Even though they might have worked with those technologies for a much
> longer
> duration than
> the "experienced" ones ?
>
> looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.
>

Folks in the corporate world mostly want people with blinders on  . so there
is no metric as such i have seen cases where the hiring manager asks for
requirement to the HR guy, who then starts looking out again by the time it
transaltes to a JD is typically heavily loaded  ( means too many keywords )
than required for the job .

i have also seen cases where in Hiring manager goes by recommendations from
peers in and out of the company about a candidate.

there is a third kind where in the Hiring manager takes a call based on an
interview on that day , and considers FOSS experience as a prime
qualification.


the third kinds are less and rare but they are growing by the day

-Satya
fossevents.in

From careers at mquotient.net  Fri Jul 15 15:59:57 2011
From: careers at mquotient.net (Careers Account)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:29:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMLSDEa0VcaMJKMSWsBfH4zWdcC6DEB-hdE5OR6M=i6r7ri6SA@mail.gmail.com>

Kunal,
Great question!

It really is a function of who is reviewing your resume at the end of the
day
- If its HR / Recruitment - they will not be able to assess technical skills
to the level a tech lead/ manager can, period
- If it directly reaches a technical team member (ideally in a leadership
capacity), he will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff

However, always be mindful that there is a perceptional component to all of
this - and unfortunately the experience gathered in a corporate /
professional environment often gets prioritized and treated more seriously
(which is not ideal)

To get ahead of the queue, ensure that your resume and cover note is
presented in a manner that easily highlights your relevant experiences (even
if not in corporate employment) in an easily readable/findable format
upfront. Also ensure that it ideally gets in the hands of a technical
manager as and when possible.

Good luck!

Best Regards,
- Kumar
PS: We are actively hiring for various technical roles, right from
Developer/Sr Developer to CTO. Look us up at www.mquotient.net  Email us at
careers at mquotient.net if interested in talking to us


On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:16 PM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> > They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> > considered for the job.
> >
> > But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly means
> ,
> > "corporate experience"
> > ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
> > use these technologies
> > in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
> > Even though they might have worked with those technologies for a much
> > longer
> > duration than
> > the "experienced" ones ?
> >
> > looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.
> >
>
> Folks in the corporate world mostly want people with blinders on  . so
> there
> is no metric as such i have seen cases where the hiring manager asks for
> requirement to the HR guy, who then starts looking out again by the time it
> transaltes to a JD is typically heavily loaded  ( means too many keywords )
> than required for the job .
>
> i have also seen cases where in Hiring manager goes by recommendations from
> peers in and out of the company about a candidate.
>
> there is a third kind where in the Hiring manager takes a call based on an
> interview on that day , and considers FOSS experience as a prime
> qualification.
>
>
> the third kinds are less and rare but they are growing by the day
>
> -Satya
> fossevents.in
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 15 16:27:28 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:57:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6TJ2jksatONkd9qu4gmACZpSSzcHe-dY5f97q8D_C7HUg@mail.gmail.com>

When reviewing a resume, we simply ignore the years of experience. It
matters little, since what we care about is capability, and there are
other indicators of that (like an active github account to name one).
Our interview process involves writing code; perhaps not as much as
we'd like, but enough to get a fair idea of where someone's stands.

For that matter even our salaries aren't linked to years of
experience, so I'm sure you can tell I'm not much of a fan of the idea
when applied to programming jobs.

> ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
> use these technologies
> in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
We actually prize this kind of experience far more because it tells us
that that person enjoys writing code enough to contribute to open
source, and can code well enough to have patches accepted by a
project. Furthermore, we get to actually see some real, live code
that's running in the wild written by the candidate.

Best,
Sidu.
http://c42.in

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> considered for the job.
>
> But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly means ,
> "corporate experience"
> ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
> use these technologies
> in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
> Even though they might have worked with those technologies for a much longer
> duration than
> the "experienced" ones ?
>
> looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.
>
> --
> regards,
>
> Kunal Ghosh
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From kunal.t2 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 04:22:23 2011
From: kunal.t2 at gmail.com (kunal ghosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 07:52:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAMLSDEa0VcaMJKMSWsBfH4zWdcC6DEB-hdE5OR6M=i6r7ri6SA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMLSDEa0VcaMJKMSWsBfH4zWdcC6DEB-hdE5OR6M=i6r7ri6SA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJvP6q5rjd+n7FOVvd+dn86U1gG91tjwPonMUKCEUzG9qcJY6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Careers Account <careers at mquotient.net>wrote:

> Kunal,
> Great question!
>
> It really is a function of who is reviewing your resume at the end of the
> day
> - If its HR / Recruitment - they will not be able to assess technical
> skills
> to the level a tech lead/ manager can, period
> - If it directly reaches a technical team member (ideally in a leadership
> capacity), he will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff


> However, always be mindful that there is a perceptional component to all of
> this - and unfortunately the experience gathered in a corporate /
> professional environment often gets prioritized and treated more seriously
> (which is not ideal)
>
> To get ahead of the queue, ensure that your resume and cover note is
> presented in a manner that easily highlights your relevant experiences
> (even
> if not in corporate employment) in an easily readable/findable format
> upfront. Also ensure that it ideally gets in the hands of a technical
> manager as and when possible.
>

Thanks for the suggestion , will keep it in mind.


>
> Good luck!
>
> Best Regards,
> - Kumar
> PS: We are actively hiring for various technical roles, right from
> Developer/Sr Developer to CTO. Look us up at www.mquotient.net  Email us
> at
> careers at mquotient.net if interested in talking to us
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:16 PM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> > > They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> > > considered for the job.
> > >
> > > But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly
> means
> > ,
> > > "corporate experience"
> > > ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers
> who
> > > use these technologies
> > > in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
> > > Even though they might have worked with those technologies for a much
> > > longer
> > > duration than
> > > the "experienced" ones ?
> > >
> > > looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.
> > >
> >
> > Folks in the corporate world mostly want people with blinders on  . so
> > there
> > is no metric as such i have seen cases where the hiring manager asks for
> > requirement to the HR guy, who then starts looking out again by the time
> it
> > transaltes to a JD is typically heavily loaded  ( means too many keywords
> )
> > than required for the job .
> >
> > i have also seen cases where in Hiring manager goes by recommendations
> from
> > peers in and out of the company about a candidate.
> >
> > there is a third kind where in the Hiring manager takes a call based on
> an
> > interview on that day , and considers FOSS experience as a prime
> > qualification.
> >
> >
> > the third kinds are less and rare but they are growing by the day
> >
> > -Satya
> > fossevents.in
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
regards,

Kunal Ghosh

From kunal.t2 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 04:50:42 2011
From: kunal.t2 at gmail.com (kunal ghosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:20:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALre89=HpA_j6t8rg7f=S4yDP0=0QW_9CTmKZAce0kNbwMPEpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJvP6q48FJckuMODNOm-w0C8JR9w7h7gOZNjEPj9Rt+Rsij1=g@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> Folks in the corporate world mostly want people with blinders on  . so
> there
> is no metric as such i have seen cases where the hiring manager asks for
> requirement to the HR guy, who then starts looking out again by the time it
> transaltes to a JD is typically heavily loaded  ( means too many keywords )
> than required for the job .
>
> i have also seen cases where in Hiring manager goes by recommendations from
> peers in and out of the company about a candidate.
>
> there is a third kind where in the Hiring manager takes a call based on an
> interview on that day , and considers FOSS experience as a prime
> qualification.
>
>
> the third kinds are less and rare but they are growing by the day
>

So, It would be a great idea to put FOSS experience as a separate
subsection
under Experience in one's resume.

Or would you suggest some other means of
bringing FOSS experience to the notice (and bring prominence to) during the
hiring
process.

That would make the job of a person looking for FOSS experience much easier
!
One wouldn't want to miss a chance of getting a job where the hiring process
is
of the third kind (as mentioned above)

-- 
regards,

Kunal Ghosh

From kunal.t2 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 05:06:28 2011
From: kunal.t2 at gmail.com (kunal ghosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:36:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAHQkf6TJ2jksatONkd9qu4gmACZpSSzcHe-dY5f97q8D_C7HUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHQkf6TJ2jksatONkd9qu4gmACZpSSzcHe-dY5f97q8D_C7HUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJvP6q7_GMxGn10uVxCt1K4wsJ-UARMbsn-1bWg7Ukih-JTAFg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com> wrote:

> When reviewing a resume, we simply ignore the years of experience. It
> matters little, since what we care about is capability, and there are
> other indicators of that (like an active github account to name one).
> Our interview process involves writing code; perhaps not as much as
> we'd like, but enough to get a fair idea of where someone's stands.
>
> For that matter even our salaries aren't linked to years of
> experience, so I'm sure you can tell I'm not much of a fan of the idea
> when applied to programming jobs.
>

I agree , an active commit history is a much better indication (and
substantiation) of
one's competence as a programmer.


>
> > ( in django , etc ) does it mean that free and open source developers who
> > use these technologies
> > in their free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?
> We actually prize this kind of experience far more because it tells us
> that that person enjoys writing code enough to contribute to open
> source, and can code well enough to have patches accepted by a
> project. Furthermore, we get to actually see some real, live code
> that's running in the wild written by the candidate.
>
>

-- 
regards,

Kunal Ghosh

From kunal.t2 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 05:11:26 2011
From: kunal.t2 at gmail.com (kunal ghosh)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:41:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q7_GMxGn10uVxCt1K4wsJ-UARMbsn-1bWg7Ukih-JTAFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHQkf6TJ2jksatONkd9qu4gmACZpSSzcHe-dY5f97q8D_C7HUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJvP6q7_GMxGn10uVxCt1K4wsJ-UARMbsn-1bWg7Ukih-JTAFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJvP6q5SkKeE3=SvYxJMSEUxmx0SmAHrcw=JmatPV_wyUs8Lpw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This has been a very useful and informative thread and I thank all those
who took time off to share their comments.

As a closing note:

I am sure, a lot of you must be reviewing prospective candidates (and their
resume s).
What would you suggest, as an employer / hiring manager / candidate with
past experience
, to prospective candidates, to bring out (and highlight) their FOSS
experience in their resume
and during the hiring process.

-- 
regards,

Kunal Ghosh

From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 11:58:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:28:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	(kunal ghosh's message of "Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:51:55 +0530")
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d3haim2l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> considered for the job.
>
> But what is the metric to measure this experience. If it indirectly
> means , "corporate experience" ( in django , etc ) does it mean that
> free and open source developers who use these technologies in their
> free time (and not in their day jobs) are NOT experienced ?  Even
> though they might have worked with those technologies for a much
> longer duration than the "experienced" ones ?
>
> looking for comments, suggestions and constructive criticism.


I've generally felt that "years of experience" is a poor metric to
filter people with. It's easy to rack up a few while not doing anything
useful. I spent a year at a company early in my "career" clicking
"Start" 2 times a week and sending an email. Later, I interviewed
someone who had 3 years of UNIX experience who didn't know the
difference between a hard link and a copy of a file.

In older times, when people worked in factories, the number of years of
experience you had were a decent metric. You couldn't get that kind of
experience except on a factory floor and the work was repetitive enough
that the more raw time you spent doing a job, the better you'd get at
it. The HR departments being the kind of people they are translate this
to the software world.

Of course, the amount of time people spend doing stuff does help them to
get better at it but in the software world, you'll have to account for
"free time" and time spent in college working on things. The "years of
experience in the industry" doesn't really work for that. You'll have to
use a different metric. 

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

"Triumph without Victory, The Unreported History of the Persian Gulf War", -Headline published in the U.S. News & World Report, 1992.

From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 12:00:42 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:30:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4PtqXWp3kvZGzPa+1LxVor=4eKRVuKZAoRCDWMS1jEFJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	(Dhananjay Nene's message of "Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:48:24 +0530")
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAD2aR4PtqXWp3kvZGzPa+1LxVor=4eKRVuKZAoRCDWMS1jEFJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <878vryilyt.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> I suspect it all boils down to whether I value my time and my
> customer's money over or under my preferred language. Once thats
> clear - the path ahead also is.

This brings in another variable which is the customer (and therefore
money). That can alter the stakes quite a bit. 

Suppose you were doing something on your own time (like setting up a
blog), would you rather choose something already built (like wordpress
or jekyll) or write your own django app *just because the others are not
in your favourite language*?

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Gentlemen, I want you to know that I am not always right, but I am never wrong. -Samuel Goldwyn

From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 12:18:43 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:48:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q5SkKeE3=SvYxJMSEUxmx0SmAHrcw=JmatPV_wyUs8Lpw@mail.gmail.com>
	(kunal ghosh's message of "Sat, 16 Jul 2011 08:41:26 +0530")
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHQkf6TJ2jksatONkd9qu4gmACZpSSzcHe-dY5f97q8D_C7HUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJvP6q7_GMxGn10uVxCt1K4wsJ-UARMbsn-1bWg7Ukih-JTAFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJvP6q5SkKeE3=SvYxJMSEUxmx0SmAHrcw=JmatPV_wyUs8Lpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ei1qh6kc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> I am sure, a lot of you must be reviewing prospective candidates (and
> their resume s).  What would you suggest, as an employer / hiring
> manager / candidate with past experience , to prospective candidates,
> to bring out (and highlight) their FOSS experience in their resume and
> during the hiring process.

I'd ask them to include it in their cover letter and then get them to
code a little. 

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

It's more than magnificent-it's mediocre. -Samuel Goldwyn

From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 06:53:12 2011
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 10:23:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <87d3haim2l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3haim2l.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mnjtAWVz=mgwDs23zDd2w-XrS1XVYpW4-VnvmkN7brAeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
 I personally feel , Technologies in which a person works in company is
decided by the BOSS and Technology he works on part time is of his choice
and passion.

If a person with x experience in Y domain applies for Z domain application
with 0 years of corporate experience ,but he has n mnths/years experience
writing code personally,they should consider his experience too.

With social coding every one can share code,"Talk is cheap show me the
code".

Instead look at this code and then decide he is suitable for job or not,Why
most people quit jobs is because they don't get their area of interest and
HR guys don't know technology,they look at their job profile and attitude
and etc . . . .

Some time ppl with 3 years of experience must have repeated their 1.5 yrs of
experience twice,so it is only 1.5 years of experience.

It would be nice if ppl can share their code over period of time and tech
guy can analysis his skills.


-- 
*Winning Regards
KraceKumar.R
http://kracekumar.wordpress.com
+91-97906-58304
*

From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 07:58:00 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 11:28:00 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFw=6zmtKjznd2dfP-jnwGPoTDLHctj0E7-jLcF5hAyFuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVKzYNho_yhKk8WXuKFdO2d9Hoo7Ub5brpibCcifBT1hJORZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFw=6zmtKjznd2dfP-jnwGPoTDLHctj0E7-jLcF5hAyFuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHVKzYMaVkYaraM-+9qbGoxn-8LPT-T9jT3HnvDByHNBjzP8cw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I pushed some changes just now, including a fix for install.


Hi Anand,

This seems to work great.

We had some issues creating a new type: we added properties with names
like "Code" and "Description" and it didn't work. Later, we made them
lowercase and now it seems to be working.

Whats the recommended way to create a site using infogami? How do we
create a new project and add new type templates?

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

From anandology at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 11:03:17 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:33:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Infogami Problems
In-Reply-To: <CAHVKzYMaVkYaraM-+9qbGoxn-8LPT-T9jT3HnvDByHNBjzP8cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHVKzYMdK2pUDvESVDkpLZgwKfjdeV-mgjkiYOn+_DzeaFF=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFz32NcYSxeM+bsEhthYC=dPKF2oCEwQw=uLP7Kn8=7Tvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVKzYNho_yhKk8WXuKFdO2d9Hoo7Ub5brpibCcifBT1hJORZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFw=6zmtKjznd2dfP-jnwGPoTDLHctj0E7-jLcF5hAyFuQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHVKzYMaVkYaraM-+9qbGoxn-8LPT-T9jT3HnvDByHNBjzP8cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFy11wji+wz2Et-YuJdazLuqweBBU8dPohc9ZgdXmQg9tw@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/16 Rajeev J Sebastian <rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I pushed some changes just now, including a fix for install.
>
>
> Hi Anand,
>
> This seems to work great.
>
> We had some issues creating a new type: we added properties with names
> like "Code" and "Description" and it didn't work. Later, we made them
> lowercase and now it seems to be working.
>
> Whats the recommended way to create a site using infogami? How do we
> create a new project and add new type templates?

recommended way is to add a plugin and add the types and templates there.

See https://github.com/anandology/in.pycon.org for an example.

Anand

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 18:25:24 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 21:55:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] language fanaticism
In-Reply-To: <878vryilyt.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87wrfp3qqa.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110712212810.GA3090@mathmagic>
	<1310512901.2348.212.camel@localhost>
	<87tyaqa5d5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<1310551233.2348.317.camel@localhost>
	<CALre89=t4qDERNSDTxx6vDkDBoFs1djo7ouhxxGruD59d-LzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1310554072.2348.341.camel@localhost>
	<CAHQkf6SHWhLf=epMR94ex1Gb2BRHcOs2yd38+=0naHuvfBWNDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87ei1tscpq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAD2aR4PtqXWp3kvZGzPa+1LxVor=4eKRVuKZAoRCDWMS1jEFJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<878vryilyt.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4ND1m11KmDn2_V8B=5vfgghHSh3TGBdh0GZb+bx=iXCPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > I suspect it all boils down to whether I value my time and my
> > customer's money over or under my preferred language. Once thats
> > clear - the path ahead also is.
>
> This brings in another variable which is the customer (and therefore
> money). That can alter the stakes quite a bit.
>
> Suppose you were doing something on your own time (like setting up a
> blog), would you rather choose something already built (like wordpress
> or jekyll) or write your own django app *just because the others are not
> in your favourite language*?
>
While that would definitely raise the probability of me doing it in
one of my favourite languages, I would decide that based on
opportunity cost. ie. if it takes me x hours to set up a wordpress
blog and y hours to write / custom craft my own (y being orders of
magnitude bigger than x) then I would trade it off with what else
could I do in those y-x hours.

Looking back, if I assessed that I would get to learn a lot about
something thats on my yet to learn list - I would go write that
blogging platform myself. Else I would use wordpress and use the time
to learn something else. But thats also driven by the fact that I
value learning something new much more than the satisfaction (without
substantial incremental learning) of programming something in the
environment I find most enjoyable.

Dhananjay

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Sat Jul 16 18:47:48 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 22:17:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4NX87760uQ3XpRbN4mQRSymmFickoe3CbGp8XgHMdj2BA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> considered for the job.
>
> But what is the metric to measure this experience.

The years of experience comes from a broader industry practice (across
all industries - not s/w) where years of experience is a good proxy
for ability to add value at a vocation. As an arbitrary example
consider hospitality management or event management.

The fact remains that there are many occupations where years of
experience has less stronger correlation to potential performance eg.
say a chaffeur.  So many companies tend to quote years of experience
simply out of habit rather than an explicit understanding of the
relationship of experience to potential performance.

However there are factors which can still be influenced by years of
experience even within s/w programming. Ability to interact with
customers, ability to involve oneself into the business domain or
problem space, ability to take on tasks and complete them without
requiring oversight or fine grained guidance still do get influenced
to some extent based on the experience. (I am suggesting there is some
correlation - not how strong it is).

Yet another reason is to increase the probability of finding the right
candidate. A threshold of years of experience is sometimes kept to
reduce the number of interviews that need to be conducted to recruit
one person (presumably because people with lesser years of experience
are lesser likely as a universe to get recruited and thus save
recruitment time).

On the whole recruitment is a very imprecise and brownian process. As
companies realise github commits are an important proxy variable for
potential success on work that will eventually find a way into the
recruitment criteria as well. In the meanwhile, its generally best to
make clear how exactly your experience stacks up against the expected
experience, and if it does not meet the minimum criteria, highlight
the strengths (eg. opensource involvement) which could cause a resume
to be looked as more likely to be eventually recruited than average.
If the company cares for this strengths, great, if not, it probably
was not one you were seeking anyways :)

Dhananjay

From vsapre80 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 21:24:42 2011
From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 00:54:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python and Employment
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4NX87760uQ3XpRbN4mQRSymmFickoe3CbGp8XgHMdj2BA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvP6q7h9_qZnHheMJrCB+TKUWGmSAugJhfse0VzvxsY6B2yXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD2aR4NX87760uQ3XpRbN4mQRSymmFickoe3CbGp8XgHMdj2BA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACPguY9ZL4ONGSZ=kpKg9HhW3cm4oOfAGi=_Bb68sJuUoivg_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM, kunal ghosh <kunal.t2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I read a lot of emails in this list and others, posting job offerings.
> > They all list, "years of experience" required by a candidate to be
> > considered for the job.
> >
> > But what is the metric to measure this experience.
>
> The years of experience comes from a broader industry practice (across
> all industries - not s/w) where years of experience is a good proxy
> for ability to add value at a vocation. As an arbitrary example
> consider hospitality management or event management.
>
> The fact remains that there are many occupations where years of
> experience has less stronger correlation to potential performance eg.
> say a chaffeur.  So many companies tend to quote years of experience
> simply out of habit rather than an explicit understanding of the
> relationship of experience to potential performance.
>
> However there are factors which can still be influenced by years of
> experience even within s/w programming. Ability to interact with
> customers, ability to involve oneself into the business domain or
> problem space, ability to take on tasks and complete them without
> requiring oversight or fine grained guidance still do get influenced
> to some extent based on the experience. (I am suggesting there is some
> correlation - not how strong it is).
>
> Yet another reason is to increase the probability of finding the right
> candidate. A threshold of years of experience is sometimes kept to
> reduce the number of interviews that need to be conducted to recruit
> one person (presumably because people with lesser years of experience
> are lesser likely as a universe to get recruited and thus save
> recruitment time).
>
> On the whole recruitment is a very imprecise and brownian process. As
> companies realise github commits are an important proxy variable for
> potential success on work that will eventually find a way into the
> recruitment criteria as well. In the meanwhile, its generally best to
> make clear how exactly your experience stacks up against the expected
> experience, and if it does not meet the minimum criteria, highlight
> the strengths (eg. opensource involvement) which could cause a resume
> to be looked as more likely to be eventually recruited than average.
> If the company cares for this strengths, great, if not, it probably
> was not one you were seeking anyways :)
>
> Dhananjay
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

Thanks for this wonderful view. I loved reading it.

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
Vishal Sapre

From vsapre80 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 21:52:06 2011
From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 01:22:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] python32 bit crash on win7 64bit machine
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=eMfJO3ZubM0XUzGMfyAy2Rrtv3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=eMfJO3ZubM0XUzGMfyAy2Rrtv3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACPguY8mOMwNy_2cQwoSP3UVu9Ru58N4KKW6xor=AA=hpZK=xA@mail.gmail.com>

can you share your script?

You should remember that user level access functions (those that access
things like AppData etc) must access different paths on Windows 7 and
Windows XP.

I have been running python 32bit on Win7 64 bit and have not yet faced a
crash of any sort.

Your script may reveal more insight.

Take care,
Vishal

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitin.nitp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am facing python crash with my script on win7 64 bit machine. I am using
> 32bit Python.
> Some of the info (from the file
> C:\Users\admin\AppData\Local\Temp\WERD22.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml) which
> I was able to collect is shown below.
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-16"?>
> -<WERReportMetadata> -<OSVersionInformation>
> <WindowsNTVersion>6.1</WindowsNTVersion> <Build>7601 Service Pack 1</Build>
> <Product>(0x30): Windows 7
> Professional</Product><Edition>Professional</Edition>
> <BuildString>7601.17592.amd64fre.win7sp1_gdr.110408-1631</BuildString>
> <Revision>1130</Revision> <Flavor>Multiprocessor Free</Flavor>
> <Architecture>X64</Architecture><LCID>1033</LCID> </OSVersionInformation>
> -<ParentProcessInformation> <ParentProcessId>2420</ParentProcessId>
>
> <ParentProcessPath>C:\matrix\win\deskinfo.exe</ParentProcessPath><ParentProcessCmdLine>c:\matrix\win\deskinfo
> sd= C:\clientapp_test\test\testMain.py dir= xml-file="PQA-Master-BAM"
> report-html=c:\report.html ip=10.11.64.42 username=oanhd csv-file=
> autorerun=yes
> project=Harrison-1.0 testruns=BookletMaker-PerfectBinding,
> CommandWorkstation-DeviceCenter, CommandWorkstation-JobCenter,
> CommandWorkstation-JobErrorReport,
> JobManagement-ProofPrint, JobProperties-FinishingTab,
> JobProperties-ImageTab, JobProperties-Layout_Booklet, JobProperties-VDPTab
> osname=win codebase=Flame3 oem=Ricoh</ParentProcessCmdLine>
> </ParentProcessInformation>-<ProblemSignatures>
> <EventType>APPCRASH</EventType> <Parameter0>python.exe</Parameter0>
> <Parameter1>0.0.0.0</Parameter1>
> <Parameter2>4ba3e443</Parameter2><Parameter3>*MSVCR90.dll*</Parameter3>
> <Parameter4>9.0.30729.4940</Parameter4> <Parameter5>4ca2ef57</Parameter5>
> <Parameter6>40000015</Parameter6>
> <Parameter7>0005beae</Parameter7></ProblemSignatures> -<DynamicSignatures>
> <Parameter1>6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48</Parameter1>
> <Parameter2>1033</Parameter2>
> <Parameter22>14a3</Parameter22>
> <Parameter23>14a3a80f8fe674ac213997683eb37eb4</Parameter23>
> <Parameter24>6c5a</Parameter24>
> <Parameter25>6c5a12bff349d19c4dddbb77ee493933</Parameter25>
> </DynamicSignatures>-<SystemInformation>
> <MID>1D18664B-57D0-4ED5-B268-913A3D384734</MID> <SystemManufacturer>VMware,
> Inc.</SystemManufacturer> <SystemProductName>VMware
> VirtualPlatform</SystemProductName> <BIOSVersion>6.00</BIOSVersion>
> </SystemInformation> </WERReportMetadata>
>
>
> Any idea on the issue?
> --
> Nitin K
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Thanks and best regards,
Vishal Sapre

---
"So say...Day by day, in every way, I am getting better, better and better
!!!"
"A Strong and Positive attitude creates more miracles than anything else."
"Life is 10% how you make it, and 90% how you take it"
"Diamond is another piece of coal that did well under pressure?
"May we do good and not evil. May we find forgiveness for ourself and
forgive others. May we share freely, never taking more than we give."
"????? ?????, ????? ????? (Benefit for most people, Happiness for most
people.)"
The difference between "*ordinary*" and "*extraordinary*" is that "extra".
Its called by another name, "*preparation*". Extraordinary people prepare
themselves for situations that ordinary people choose to ignore.

From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Tue Jul 19 11:47:43 2011
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:17:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Reseting contenttype for dumpdata/loaddata
Message-ID: <CAN+DPACEjhkj5y+QfhoFJ6rg=V9ZK82ab6vL29O5_jXDHGR2OQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I am having trouble loading Django fixtures into my database because
of contenttypes conflicts. Some of the data i need has foreignkey
elements in the contenttypes model.

Apparently the problem is that django  dynamically tries to populate
the content-types table. But if we put data into the table, the
primary keys  clash. Anybody knows a workaround for this.
-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From ashok.raavi at gmail.com  Wed Jul 20 02:22:17 2011
From: ashok.raavi at gmail.com (ashok raavi)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 05:52:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Reseting contenttype for dumpdata/loaddata
In-Reply-To: <CAN+DPACEjhkj5y+QfhoFJ6rg=V9ZK82ab6vL29O5_jXDHGR2OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+DPACEjhkj5y+QfhoFJ6rg=V9ZK82ab6vL29O5_jXDHGR2OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODSJc_PTJs4SoU_HK7fzxuegxVO2BxW+qEPbg_1FbbG_TuXaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Amit Sethi <amit.pureenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am having trouble loading Django fixtures into my database because
> of contenttypes conflicts. Some of the data i need has foreignkey
> elements in the contenttypes model.
>
> Apparently the problem is that django  dynamically tries to populate
> the content-types table. But if we put data into the table, the
> primary keys  clash. Anybody knows a workaround for this.
>

Use --natural option,
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/django-admin/#django-admin-option---natural
,
while dumping data.


> --
> A-M-I-T S|S
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
ashok raavi

From soorjithp at gmail.com  Sat Jul 23 14:08:36 2011
From: soorjithp at gmail.com (soorjith p)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:38:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] How to use Arabic in ReportLab
Message-ID: <CAG_QLJ3pgw8c7isVHyBAjnKWCrEHbjAVsL=iicX2dRq8WOFmDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I want to handle data in Arabic language by using ReportLab, am searching
about that. If anybody have experience in using Arabic (or other languages)
in Reportlab please let me know how can we implement that?

-- 
Regards
Soorjith P

From vsapre80 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 23 14:58:41 2011
From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 18:28:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
Message-ID: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Folks,

I am in need of a CRM/ERP system (more CRM) which is in Python and allows me
to extend it as and when needed. Here are some important requirements:

a) Preferably Web based
b) Authentication support
c) Non-Oracle, Non-Access based
d) Allow us to create charts and plots based on data collected.
e) Allows users to search through all the data...

Do you have any stars in mind?

I also have a crazy idea of using TRAC and creating plugins for making it
look like a CRM system. What do you think of this?

-- 
Thanks and best regards,
Vishal Sapre

From vid at svaksha.com  Sat Jul 23 15:47:10 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:47:10 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9ztG85EZ1-6jS5R3ibEwM6Fnqq3o+rDuh7nGtvxp5pk+GtzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Removed other lists.

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:58, Vishal <vsapre80 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> I am in need of a CRM/ERP system (more CRM) which is in Python and allows me

Tryton.org -- ERP system in Python with modules for many accounting
functions, PostgreSQL/SQLite based.

Other than trac (which is more of an issue/bug tracker), I'm not aware
of pure-python based CRM systems. So are you looking for the python
equivalent of , say, SugarCRM?

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From vid at svaksha.com  Sat Jul 23 15:51:18 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 13:51:18 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CAN9ztG85EZ1-6jS5R3ibEwM6Fnqq3o+rDuh7nGtvxp5pk+GtzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN9ztG85EZ1-6jS5R3ibEwM6Fnqq3o+rDuh7nGtvxp5pk+GtzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9ztG9Dw5xnzQ2KNfzLYCKJsxQhsjT1cPH=V7SpWsRiOV-FkQ@mail.gmail.com>

..and, there is roundup-tracker(.org) but I prefer trac. YMMV.
-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From hiddenharmony at gmail.com  Sat Jul 23 16:01:37 2011
From: hiddenharmony at gmail.com (Vivek Khurana)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 19:31:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHpZEPqd5p4s=18emDTW+bUq==4oiBRSxc8eK98EoQRO9zMJMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Vishal <vsapre80 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> I am in need of a CRM/ERP system (more CRM) which is in Python and allows me
> to extend it as and when needed. Here are some important requirements:
>
> a) Preferably Web based
> b) Authentication support
> c) Non-Oracle, Non-Access based
> d) Allow us to create charts and plots based on data collected.
> e) Allows users to search through all the data...
>
> Do you have any stars in mind?

 Try openERP.

regards
Vivek

-- 
The hidden harmony is better than the obvious!!

From senthil at uthcode.com  Sun Jul 24 01:49:40 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 07:49:40 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CAN9ztG9Dw5xnzQ2KNfzLYCKJsxQhsjT1cPH=V7SpWsRiOV-FkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN9ztG85EZ1-6jS5R3ibEwM6Fnqq3o+rDuh7nGtvxp5pk+GtzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN9ztG9Dw5xnzQ2KNfzLYCKJsxQhsjT1cPH=V7SpWsRiOV-FkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110723234940.GA2322@mathmagic>

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 01:51:18PM +0000, ? ?????? ?  wrote:
> ..and, there is roundup-tracker(.org) but I prefer trac. YMMV.

Roundup is an issue tracker, comparable with bugzilla. How is this a
suggestion for CRM/ERP system? 

Can roundup serve as CRM/ERP solution? May be I don't understand what
the requirements of these are? 

-- 
Senthil

From vsapre80 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 24 21:22:53 2011
From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 00:52:53 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] need for Python based CRM/ERP system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <20110723234940.GA2322@mathmagic>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN9ztG85EZ1-6jS5R3ibEwM6Fnqq3o+rDuh7nGtvxp5pk+GtzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN9ztG9Dw5xnzQ2KNfzLYCKJsxQhsjT1cPH=V7SpWsRiOV-FkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110723234940.GA2322@mathmagic>
Message-ID: <CACPguY_YeuZ6ynj3Mpk4RaSuCSg6BUHVhOs5sL4hEb4v8SbbbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com>wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 01:51:18PM +0000, ? ?????? ?  wrote:
> > ..and, there is roundup-tracker(.org) but I prefer trac. YMMV.
>
> Roundup is an issue tracker, comparable with bugzilla. How is this a
> suggestion for CRM/ERP system?
>
> Can roundup serve as CRM/ERP solution? May be I don't understand what
> the requirements of these are?
>
> --
> Senthil
>
>
I dont know about RoundUp, but TRAC can be morphed to perform almost
everything, that a website can do. All this within the general skeleton that
TRAC provides. Infact the plugins already available for TRAC have made it
much more than a bug tracking system.

Vishal



-- 
Thanks and best regards,
Vishal Sapre

---
"So say...Day by day, in every way, I am getting better, better and better
!!!"
"A Strong and Positive attitude creates more miracles than anything else."
"Life is 10% how you make it, and 90% how you take it"
"Diamond is another piece of coal that did well under pressure?
"May we do good and not evil. May we find forgiveness for ourself and
forgive others. May we share freely, never taking more than we give."
"????? ?????, ????? ????? (Benefit for most people, Happiness for most
people.)"
The difference between "*ordinary*" and "*extraordinary*" is that "extra".
Its called by another name, "*preparation*". Extraordinary people prepare
themselves for situations that ordinary people choose to ignore.

From aziz.mansur at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 07:19:53 2011
From: aziz.mansur at gmail.com (aziz.mansur at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:49:53 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] need for Python based CRM/ERP
	system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFJPoP0votV4ACSyLYpX3xmtF6-HG=wKv7yrf2QnQ5iHPoza_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey
Have you looked at Tryton <http://www.tryton.org/en/>?

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Vishal <vsapre80 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>
> I am in need of a CRM/ERP system (more CRM) which is in Python and allows
> me to extend it as and when needed. Here are some important requirements:
>
> a) Preferably Web based
> b) Authentication support
> c) Non-Oracle, Non-Access based
> d) Allow us to create charts and plots based on data collected.
> e) Allows users to search through all the data...
>
> Do you have any stars in mind?
>
> I also have a crazy idea of using TRAC and creating plugins for making it
> look like a CRM system. What do you think of this?
>
> --
> Thanks and best regards,
> Vishal Sapre
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Python Pune" group.
> To post to this group, send email to pythonpune at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> pythonpune+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/pythonpune?hl=en.
>



-- 
- Aziz M. Bookwala

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 07:31:25 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 23:31:25 -0600
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] need for Python based CRM/ERP
	system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CAFJPoP0votV4ACSyLYpX3xmtF6-HG=wKv7yrf2QnQ5iHPoza_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFJPoP0votV4ACSyLYpX3xmtF6-HG=wKv7yrf2QnQ5iHPoza_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHhacd0-7scVkuLTJ2MuN6sZqXeM7fe2vz7xS1k7HP1eKwAiOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I missed few mail chain.. I apologies if someone/you pointed out
OpenERP.

Did you ever try OpenERP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenERP
http://www.openerp.com/

I go through the Open ERP UI and it was amazing. It is driven through xml.

Thanks & Regards,
Gopal


On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19 PM, aziz.mansur at gmail.com <
aziz.mansur at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey
> Have you looked at Tryton <http://www.tryton.org/en/>?
>
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Vishal <vsapre80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Folks,
> >
> > I am in need of a CRM/ERP system (more CRM) which is in Python and allows
> > me to extend it as and when needed. Here are some important requirements:
> >
> > a) Preferably Web based
> > b) Authentication support
> > c) Non-Oracle, Non-Access based
> > d) Allow us to create charts and plots based on data collected.
> > e) Allows users to search through all the data...
> >
> > Do you have any stars in mind?
> >
> > I also have a crazy idea of using TRAC and creating plugins for making it
> > look like a CRM system. What do you think of this?
> >
> > --
> > Thanks and best regards,
> > Vishal Sapre
> >
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Python Pune" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to pythonpune at googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > pythonpune+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/pythonpune?hl=en.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> - Aziz M. Bookwala
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 07:41:48 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:11:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] need for Python based CRM/ERP
	system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CAHhacd0-7scVkuLTJ2MuN6sZqXeM7fe2vz7xS1k7HP1eKwAiOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFJPoP0votV4ACSyLYpX3xmtF6-HG=wKv7yrf2QnQ5iHPoza_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHhacd0-7scVkuLTJ2MuN6sZqXeM7fe2vz7xS1k7HP1eKwAiOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP915yWzPU4GT8sGdjjsLKH6LAjXgsDjLV1sb2nSYAVFkyQumg@mail.gmail.com>

I would also

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani <
gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, I missed few mail chain.. I apologies if someone/you pointed out
> OpenERP.
>
>

Take a look at ERPNext. This is developed by an Indian company in Mumbai,
who keeps a pretty low profile, it's all python

https://github.com/webnotes

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 08:11:30 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 00:11:30 -0600
Subject: [BangPypers] [pythonpune] need for Python based CRM/ERP
	system...extensible
In-Reply-To: <CAP915yWzPU4GT8sGdjjsLKH6LAjXgsDjLV1sb2nSYAVFkyQumg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACPguY9_JsmbRrWL5mGqVx7aNMtC_EVfudk-NpmQAWWA6=8H3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFJPoP0votV4ACSyLYpX3xmtF6-HG=wKv7yrf2QnQ5iHPoza_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHhacd0-7scVkuLTJ2MuN6sZqXeM7fe2vz7xS1k7HP1eKwAiOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP915yWzPU4GT8sGdjjsLKH6LAjXgsDjLV1sb2nSYAVFkyQumg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHhacd3VCcVb+C+NDYy1Yz4joELiThRbF-HJJwu0MtKjn1Aj9A@mail.gmail.com>

With respect to customization Trac to match CRM..

Before you could think of Python or customizing Trac CRM, you should know
what you want..

If you are THE BOSS(not necessary to be a business owner)  who makes the
RIGHT decision by putting client requirement first, I would say that don't
customize Trac. Trac has a lot of plugins and we use it at full power. I
love the way the trac query works. In my experience, customer don't
understand the power of Trac.  Trac plug-ins are nice to learn but not to
adapt for end user who pays for your product. Extension is always painful
where you need to stick to design philosophy of Trac ever. If you ever
choose Trac then creating a CRM is not time consuming if you use Django or
Pyramid.

Regards,

Gopal


On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would also
>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani <
> gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, I missed few mail chain.. I apologies if someone/you pointed out
> > OpenERP.
> >
> >
>
> Take a look at ERPNext. This is developed by an Indian company in Mumbai,
> who keeps a pretty low profile, it's all python
>
> https://github.com/webnotes
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From hitesharora143 at yahoo.in  Mon Jul 25 09:12:01 2011
From: hitesharora143 at yahoo.in (Hitesh Arora)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:42:01 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [BangPypers] To attend the python-django training...
Message-ID: <1311577921.92038.YahooMailRC@web95805.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Respected Sir,
                      
                      I am persuing my B.Tech from Lovely Professional 
University(LPU), jalandhar.I am in B.Tech-C.S.E 7th semester 4th year. Our 7th 
sem is for 6 months industrial internship , So I am doing my intern at 
PGCIL(Power Grid Corp Of India) gurgaon and they are teaching me python and will 
assign me the project on Django.As Python is new for me and even I don't 
have much knowledge about it. So I'll be glad if you will let me attend this 
training as this will definately help me in making my project and to clear the 
basics of it. I have attached my bio with it.
 
 
Thanking You
Hitesh Arora
09717862820

From gvkalra at gmail.com  Mon Jul 25 13:14:20 2011
From: gvkalra at gmail.com (Gaurav Kalra)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:44:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] To attend the python-django training...
Message-ID: <CAD5qJ_vhGLVJg=RO4SyMHzhU+9OuViVhKHYTEBzUfWj+ZkRarw@mail.gmail.com>

> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:42:01 +0530 (IST)
> From: Hitesh Arora <hitesharora143 at yahoo.in>
>
> Respected Sir,
>
>                      I am persuing my B.Tech from Lovely Professional
> University(LPU), jalandhar.I am in B.Tech-C.S.E 7th semester 4th year. Our
> 7th
> sem is for 6 months industrial internship , So I am doing my intern at
> PGCIL(Power Grid Corp Of India) gurgaon and they are teaching me python and
> will
> assign me the project on Django.



> As Python is new for me and even I don't
> have much knowledge about it.


Refer "A byte of Python" and "Learn Python the Hard way" for getting
started.


> So I'll be glad if you will let me attend this
> training as this will definately help me in making my project and to clear
> the
> basics of it.


Refer djangobook.com for getting started. Though a bit outdated, it will
still serve the purpose. For up-to-date reference, please refer the django
documentation.


> I have attached my bio with it.
>
>
If am aware, there is no django training being offered by this group. In
fact no training is being offered by the group. Though individual members
may be conducting online/offline trainings. There is a cool #django IRC
channel for getting help as well.


>
> Thanking You
> Hitesh Arora
> 09717862820
>

From yusuf.kanthawala at snstech.com  Wed Jul 27 10:59:14 2011
From: yusuf.kanthawala at snstech.com (Yusuf Kanthawala)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:29:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] JOB
Message-ID: <017b01cc4c3b$77d486a0$677d93e0$@kanthawala@snstech.com>

Software / Sr. Software Developer (Python / Django) : SNS TECHNOLOGIES
(www.snstech.com) : PUNE

 

JOB LOCATION: PUNE

 

Role & Responsibilities

-          You would be working on development projects.

-          Based on your experience, you will be responsible for end to end
project management activities.

-          You will have full ownership of the project.

-          You will be responsible for technical mentoring of the junior
members of the team.

-          You will report to the project manager.

 

Technical Specifications

-          Should have 2 to 7 years over all experience.

-          Should have sufficient hands on experience with Python / Django.

-          Should have worked on any of the Python frameworks.

-          Should be willing to work on CSS, HTML, Jscript

-          Should be proficient in OOPS concepts.

-          Should be proficient in designing skills.

 

Please send your resume to Yusuf.Kanthawala at snstech.com

 

Your mail body should have the following information:

 

Total Experience

Experience on Python

Present Location

Willing to relocate to Pune (Y/N)

Present CTC

Expected CTC

Notice Period

Best Regards,

Yusuf Kanthawala
Manager - Recruitments 
SNS Technologies Pvt. Ltd., Pune (www.snstech.com)
Desk Phone: +91 20 4013 8400

Disclaimer :

"This email and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. You are notified that any use, copying or dissemination of the
information contained in the E-MAIL in any manner whatsoever is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the
sender immediately and delete the same from your system. 

Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.
Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the
presence of viruses. SNS Technologies accepts no liability for any damage
caused by any virus transmitted by this email."

 



Email Disclaimer: http://www.snstech.com/disclaimer.html

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 04:58:06 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:28:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [FREE] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <CAM2QRP9oJuWX=pR=YxPV+aehop5qSfxiyVJ8guGBj2QhA+e3eA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOM8CipfnrJqafjGd5YTgZ2s0jnnxgOoxvseAUk0anoUeu8wuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANf+=AqAVeLCb2kkOoJA2N0=zp8BULLvUDUExepteftGzF0i5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOM8CioTmRtCdwB6R=Ff+PxzimPbZkZJsQsjAWCE=_aa9iFyUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL2NvRydsxvurP4iu2iYOvK87LsR8Xk959-Ltb44xtAnJL0oNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGSY0H_-KioL=+yfFFK3=2hsWbTBfRn7zHc1c81rmsprZiETeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM2QRP9oJuWX=pR=YxPV+aehop5qSfxiyVJ8guGBj2QhA+e3eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOM8Cipn3qDR3sVMOPhet4yxHxfivKMwDcbPMP2z8O3wgL4dWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,
Finally everything is planned & scheduled
I really appreciate if you just checkout once prerequisites
Last Remainder About Python/Django 1 Day Boot-camp
Date:30th July (11am to 5 pm )
Venue:Room No 1
          School of Computer and System Sciences
           JNU NEW Campus
            Delhi-67
Prerequisites:-1)come with your laptop
                     2)better if have Linux/Mac as OS
                     3) for window no more support after bootcamp
                     4) training is free but no other services provided i.e
food ..so come ready with your own
                     5)Also send me mail about your confirmation so that we
are able manage  our space
                     6)Please bring your printed mail copy of our sent
confirmation so that we ensure your space over-there


All information is updated on our blog http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com ,
just check it out for all details






On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:14 PM, AKARSH SANGHI <akarsh.sanghi at gmail.com>wrote:

> I will be there !!
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 5:02 PM, charantej.S <chinny143charan at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello Vikas
> >
> >               Am from chennai. please send both source code, and video
> link
> > .
> >  thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event bye.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Shashidhar Paragonda <
> > shashidhar85 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Vikas
> > >
> > >                really its nice initiative after the complete training
> > > please send both source code, and video link so that we can share with
> > > others who dint attended and also to people who are in need to get
> > started
> > > thank you, have a nice day and I wish all the success for the event
> bye.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > <Nope,till now no arrangement because there much more people
> interested
> > > > that
> > > > i expect .I  also get some donations too but it is not possible make
> > > > arrangement more 50 people so it's better people from other city.
> > > > <But by next time i make arrangement  so people can come from outside
> > > also
> > > > ,
> > > > so now no space here all 50 is full.but you can ping me a mail , so i
> > can
> > > > send source code/video tutorial on your mail id!
> > > > < there are many query from Bangalore about 12 person till now ,but
> > sorry
> > > > to
> > > > guys funding is problem, not till next time In winter. no need to
> worry
> > > > feel
> > > > free mail me regard any python/django/pinax related stuff
> > > >
> > > > <You know i am expecting  toll about 30 people maximum , but people
> > crazy
> > > > about Django so it reach to 50 those coming to venue & other  27
> > > > subscriber to source code .so Renuka next time i come up with full
> > > > arrangement Don't worry might be next time we organizes it in
> Bangalore
> > > in
> > > > WINTER(2011).
> > > >
> > > > <soon we just gonna to lauch a website realted our community . Till
> now
> > > you
> > > > can get tutorial on my blog & all other updates, their also some good
> > > links
> > > > realted to stuff from novice to professional on my blog
> > > > <Blog link:http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Vikash ruhil
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > -----------------------------------
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Shashidhar N.Paragonda
> > > shashidhar85 at gmail.com
> > > +919449073835
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > CharanTej.S
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Akarsh Sanghi
> Jaypee Institute of Information Technology University
> Undergraduate Student Class of 2013
> Mob: (+91)-9818489945
> Email: akarsh.sanghi at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 05:10:05 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:40:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Free] Python/Django Training
Message-ID: <CAOM8CipQPi_Jfk0tqVf3s3LJLufjMqxPwYARdoMrW3EDut9nwA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,
Finally everything is planned & scheduled
I really appreciate if you just checkout once prerequisites
Last Remainder About Python/Django 1 Day Boot-camp
Date:30th July (11am to 5 pm )
Venue:Room No 1
              School of Computer and System Sciences
               JNU NEW Campus
                Delhi-67
How to Reach:-By Metro from Hauz Khas Metro station (JNU is about 1Km from
this station)

Prerequisites:-1)come with your laptop
                     2)better if have Linux/Mac as OS
                     3) for window no more support after bootcamp
                     4) training is free but no other services provided i.e
food ..so come ready with your own
                     5)Also send me mail about your confirmation so that we
are able manage  our space
                     6)Please bring your printed mail copy of our sent
confirmation so that we ensure your space over-there

For more details about course ware, about all other stuff ,
All information is updated on our blog http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com ,
just check it out for all details
soon Our website gonaa lanuched within few dayz so that also updated.

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 05:13:51 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:43:51 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [Free] Python/Django Training (last remainder about
	meet-up)
Message-ID: <CAOM8Ciof6awjnFt0k=oHFSdkfNy76L4SpJfc1jsoVz76yfF14g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,
Finally everything is planned & scheduled
I really appreciate if you just checkout once prerequisites
Last Remainder About Python/Django 1 Day Boot-camp
Date:30th July (11am to 5 pm )
Venue:Room No 1
              School of Computer and System Sciences
               JNU NEW Campus
                Delhi-67
How to Reach:-By Metro from Hauz Khas Metro station (JNU is about 1Km from
this station)

Prerequisites:-1)come with your laptop
                     2)better if have Linux/Mac as OS
                     3) for window no more support after bootcamp
                     4) training is free but no other services provided i.e
food ..so come ready with your own
                     5)Also send me mail about your confirmation so that we
are able manage  our space
                     6)Please bring your printed mail copy of our sent
confirmation so that we ensure your space over-there

For more details about course ware, about all other stuff ,
All information is updated on our blog http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com ,
just check it out for all details
soon Our website gonna launched within few dayz so that also updated.

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 11:48:31 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:18:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
Message-ID: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>

hi,

here is a simplified version of an xml file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <gpx >
        <metadata>
                <author>
                <name>CloudMade</name>
                <email id="support" domain="cloudmade.com" />
                <link href="http://maps.cloudmade.com"></link>
                </author>
                <copyright author="CloudMade">
                <license>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license</license>
                </copyright>
                <time>2011-07-28T07:04:01</time>
        </metadata>
            <extensions>
                <distance>1489</distance>
                <time>344</time>
                <start>S?gerstra?e</start>
                <end>Im Gisinger Feld</end>
            </extensions>
    </gpx>

I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
simplest way of doing this?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves


From venkat83 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 11:50:42 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:20:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFQBXA0FGZz544H4qTUnM9WOgKGHeNbYm5WbaL_cjPmX-A@mail.gmail.com>

grep or regexp?

-V

From gethemant at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 11:52:15 2011
From: gethemant at gmail.com (hemant)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:22:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQBXA0FGZz544H4qTUnM9WOgKGHeNbYm5WbaL_cjPmX-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAN7tdFQBXA0FGZz544H4qTUnM9WOgKGHeNbYm5WbaL_cjPmX-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN45Pno9nCEdr6b9HrbJ1c3wrfZ9xAcCGuzscMmb+DRfGYUUNg@mail.gmail.com>

Using xpath such as:

/gpx/extensions/distance(:text)

?



On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> grep or regexp?
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Let them talk of their oriental summer climes of everlasting
conservatories; give me the privilege of making my own summer with my
own coals.

http://gnufied.org
http://twitter.com/gnufied

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 11:52:35 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:22:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQBXA0FGZz544H4qTUnM9WOgKGHeNbYm5WbaL_cjPmX-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAN7tdFQBXA0FGZz544H4qTUnM9WOgKGHeNbYm5WbaL_cjPmX-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP915yUWrOopjtNKyaZTVHM=XO8z1sFx_Xptvb_V7kF13Z-ZKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> grep or regexp?
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>


can write an Xml parsing query
-- 
Ramdas S
+91 9342 583 065

From anandology at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 12:03:13 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:33:13 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/28 Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>:
> hi,
>
> here is a simplified version of an xml file:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> ? ?<gpx >
> ? ? ? ?<metadata>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<author>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<name>CloudMade</name>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<email id="support" domain="cloudmade.com" />
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<link href="http://maps.cloudmade.com"></link>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</author>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<copyright author="CloudMade">
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<license>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license</license>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</copyright>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<time>2011-07-28T07:04:01</time>
> ? ? ? ?</metadata>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?<extensions>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<distance>1489</distance>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<time>344</time>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<start>S?gerstra?e</start>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<end>Im Gisinger Feld</end>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?</extensions>
> ? ?</gpx>
>
> I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
> simplest way of doing this?

>>> from xml.dom import minidom
>>> dom = minidom.parseString(x)
>>> dom.getElementsByTagName("distance")[0].childNodes[0].nodeValue
u'1489'

Anand

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 12:07:25 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:37:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAJ3UTYLoEiyxCwxJv_HX286V_+G7ELfLtHw66AXjyDq46nBjVA@mail.gmail.com>

> here is a simplified version of an xml file:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> ? ?<gpx >
> ? ? ? ?<metadata>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<author>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<name>CloudMade</name>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<email id="support" domain="cloudmade.com" />
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<link href="http://maps.cloudmade.com"></link>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</author>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<copyright author="CloudMade">
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<license>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license</license>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?</copyright>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<time>2011-07-28T07:04:01</time>
> ? ? ? ?</metadata>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?<extensions>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<distance>1489</distance>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<time>344</time>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<start>S?gerstra?e</start>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<end>Im Gisinger Feld</end>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?</extensions>
> ? ?</gpx>
>
> I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
> simplest way of doing this?

#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
from xml.etree.ElementTree import fromstring

data = """<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
   <gpx >
       <metadata>
               <author>
               <name>CloudMade</name>
               <email id="support" domain="cloudmade.com" />
               <link href="http://maps.cloudmade.com"></link>
               </author>
               <copyright author="CloudMade">
               <license>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license</license>
               </copyright>
               <time>2011-07-28T07:04:01</time>
       </metadata>
           <extensions>
               <distance>1489</distance>
               <time>344</time>
               <start>S?gerstra?e</start>
               <end>Im Gisinger Feld</end>
           </extensions>
   </gpx>"""


def parse_xml(s):
    element = fromstring(s)
    return element.find("extensions/distance").text

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print parse_xml(data)

Hope that helps.

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 12:31:38 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:01:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>

On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 15:33 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
> > I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
> > simplest way of doing this?
> 
> >>> from xml.dom import minidom
> >>> dom = minidom.parseString(x)
> >>> dom.getElementsByTagName("distance")[0].childNodes[0].nodeValue
> u'1489' 

thanks - perfect.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves


From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 13:04:20 2011
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:34:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mnqgHGy3=tc+hDAUxnSbV618df2+8kOCz-2xE2kSGu-2Q@mail.gmail.com>

You can try beautifulsoup, recommended for python/XML Parsing.

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 18:07:16 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:37:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>

If you're doing this repeatedly, you may want to just delegate to a
native XPath implementation. I haven't done much Python, so I can't
comment on your choices, but in Ruby I'd simply hand off to libXML
using Nokogiri. This approach should be a whole lot faster, but I'd
advise benchmarking first because, as I said, I know little about
Python.

Best,
Sidu.
http://sidu.in

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 15:33 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
>> > I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
>> > simplest way of doing this?
>>
>> >>> from xml.dom import minidom
>> >>> dom = minidom.parseString(x)
>> >>> dom.getElementsByTagName("distance")[0].childNodes[0].nodeValue
>> u'1489'
>
> thanks - perfect.
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 19:07:11 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:37:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>

parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract the
distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.

From gora at mimirtech.com  Thu Jul 28 21:53:19 2011
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 01:23:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACiMRG+i6SA52iTjxMD8otaH74=dmOMrWjZL3opHek6OVtMSLg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract the
> distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
> would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
[...]

Strongly disagree. IMHO, regexps are the wrong solution
for parsing XML (or, any kind of well-structured text), as
they end up becoming intolerably complex, and do not
degrade gracefully for broken XML.

Have not compared speeds myself, but there are blogs
that go into that. In my experience, the cleanest, most
efficient, and richest-in-features Python XML library is
lxml. For people used to BeautifulSoup, lxml has a
BeautifulSoup parser, and is significantly more efficient.

Regards,
Gora

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 04:38:40 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:08:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CACiMRG+i6SA52iTjxMD8otaH74=dmOMrWjZL3opHek6OVtMSLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACiMRG+i6SA52iTjxMD8otaH74=dmOMrWjZL3opHek6OVtMSLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP915yV-gkXAeYf9GY+ZXFxERKapNOsnFUAOF0kYU3WZ4w2JOg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:23 AM, Gora Mohanty <gora at mimirtech.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract
> the
> > distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
> > would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
> [...]
>
> Strongly disagree. IMHO, regexps are the wrong solution
> for parsing XML (or, any kind of well-structured text), as
> they end up becoming intolerably complex, and do not
> degrade gracefully for broken XML.
>
> Have not compared speeds myself, but there are blogs
> that go into that. In my experience, the cleanest, most
> efficient, and richest-in-features Python XML library is
> lxml. For people used to BeautifulSoup, lxml has a
> BeautifulSoup parser, and is significantly more efficient.
>
>
If it's a questions of the fastest gun around it must be cElementTree, and
please refer the table somewhere towards bottom of the page. Caveat, the
page belongs to effbot who is written the package.

http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm

> Regards,
> Gora
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Ramdas S
+91 9342 583 065

From gladiatorg4 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 05:14:21 2011
From: gladiatorg4 at gmail.com (Joseph Gladson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:44:21 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAP915yV-gkXAeYf9GY+ZXFxERKapNOsnFUAOF0kYU3WZ4w2JOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACiMRG+i6SA52iTjxMD8otaH74=dmOMrWjZL3opHek6OVtMSLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP915yV-gkXAeYf9GY+ZXFxERKapNOsnFUAOF0kYU3WZ4w2JOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOtmqZ5uc5NGhnieKGwTVeTNbmZ6FP-UTi2FraDeJQyxCN7WqA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

check and try pyparsing module... U could do it so simple....:)

regards,
joseph

On 7/29/11, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:23 AM, Gora Mohanty <gora at mimirtech.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract
>> the
>> > distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
>> > would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
>> [...]
>>
>> Strongly disagree. IMHO, regexps are the wrong solution
>> for parsing XML (or, any kind of well-structured text), as
>> they end up becoming intolerably complex, and do not
>> degrade gracefully for broken XML.
>>
>> Have not compared speeds myself, but there are blogs
>> that go into that. In my experience, the cleanest, most
>> efficient, and richest-in-features Python XML library is
>> lxml. For people used to BeautifulSoup, lxml has a
>> BeautifulSoup parser, and is significantly more efficient.
>>
>>
> If it's a questions of the fastest gun around it must be cElementTree, and
> please refer the table somewhere towards bottom of the page. Caveat, the
> page belongs to effbot who is written the package.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm
>
>> Regards,
>> Gora
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ramdas S
> +91 9342 583 065
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

From anandology at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 07:17:14 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:47:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/28 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
> parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract the
> distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
> would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.

regexp is a bad solution to parse xml.

minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
instead of developer time.  Minidom is available in standard library,
you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
downtimes and lxml compilations failures.

I don't think there will be significant performance difference between
regexp and minidom unless you are doing it a million times.

Anand

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 07:25:43 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:55:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3UTYJ2vsw57AOrgaxjXusgZo8hQvdFVG9tXykyB=W9-_v84A@mail.gmail.com>

> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
> instead of developer time. ?Minidom is available in standard library,
> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.

FWIW, ElementTree is a part of the standard library as well and is
known to be much better than minidom in various ways.

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 07:26:15 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:56:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com>wrote:

> 2011/7/28 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
> > parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract
> the
> > distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
> > would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
>
> regexp is a bad solution to parse xml.
>
> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
> instead of developer time.  Minidom is available in standard library,
> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.
>
> I don't think there will be significant performance difference between
> regexp and minidom unless you are doing it a million times.
>
>
Well, i have clearly mentioned my assumptions - i.e, when you treat the XML
as a 'string' and do not want
to retrieve anything else in a 'structured manner'. I am a speed-maniac and
crave for speed; so if the assumption is valid,
i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater solution. I
have done some speed experiments
in past on this (results of which i do not have handy), and i found this.

XP asks you implement the best solution with the least effort and i think in
this case regexp is a winner. Thoughts can vary though.

From anandology at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 07:45:16 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:15:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFyOwtE6ZR56tD4eKEo1Xm1v5DTNaqGZs8QJ-R4sjfn-eA@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/29 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> 2011/7/28 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
>> > parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to extract
>> the
>> > distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then i
>> > would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
>>
>> regexp is a bad solution to parse xml.
>>
>> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
>> instead of developer time. ?Minidom is available in standard library,
>> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
>> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.
>>
>> I don't think there will be significant performance difference between
>> regexp and minidom unless you are doing it a million times.
>>
>>
> Well, i have clearly mentioned my assumptions - i.e, when you treat the XML
> as a 'string' and do not want
> to retrieve anything else in a 'structured manner'. I am a speed-maniac and
> crave for speed; so if the assumption is valid,
> i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater solution. I
> have done some speed experiments
> in past on this (results of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
>
> XP asks you implement the best solution with the least effort and i think in
> this case regexp is a winner. Thoughts can vary though.

regexp can at the best be a dirty-hack, not a best solution for xml parsing.

Anand

From anandology at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 07:46:23 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:16:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3UTYJ2vsw57AOrgaxjXusgZo8hQvdFVG9tXykyB=W9-_v84A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ3UTYJ2vsw57AOrgaxjXusgZo8hQvdFVG9tXykyB=W9-_v84A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7wXFxRGU2CCJZGoP4RR=Emjxm9sPfoxapkfJuqMGSG7NkgSQ@mail.gmail.com>

2011/7/29 Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com>:
>> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
>> instead of developer time. ?Minidom is available in standard library,
>> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
>> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.
>
> FWIW, ElementTree is a part of the standard library as well and is
> known to be much better than minidom in various ways.

New in version 2.5.

I don't do much xml parsing and I've always been using minidom when I
needed it. I think I should update my knowledge.

Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:01:39 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:31:39 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:56:15 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> Well, i have clearly mentioned my assumptions - i.e, when you treat
> the XML as a 'string' and do not want to retrieve anything else in a
> 'structured manner'.

If the data is structured, it makes sense to exploit that structure and
use a proper solution. 

> I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
> valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater
> solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
> of which i do not have handy), and i found this.

Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.

I find it highly unlikely that for a large program sufferring from low
performance, replacing an XML parser with a regexp based parser will
significantly improve peformance. 

Use the right tool for the job and then if the performance is slow,
profile the program. If you then find that it's the XML parsing that's
the main bottleneck, switch to a different one or a C (or assembly [1])
based implementation. If it's *still* not fast enough, try moving to
regexps and then measure how much speed you get out of introducing so
much brittleness and fragility into your program.


[...]




Footnotes: 
[1]  http://tibleiz.net/asm-xml/index.html

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Referring to a book: I read part of it all the way through. -- Samuel Goldwyn

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:04:17 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:34:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAC7wXFyOwtE6ZR56tD4eKEo1Xm1v5DTNaqGZs8QJ-R4sjfn-eA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFyOwtE6ZR56tD4eKEo1Xm1v5DTNaqGZs8QJ-R4sjfn-eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFRJwV_FE0DjQQQH5+6iwJBVN_O8ZdiC4Z=hXwoKQLJ5xA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com>wrote:

> 2011/7/29 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
> > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> 2011/7/28 Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>:
> >> > parsing using minidom is one of the slowest. if you just want to
> extract
> >> the
> >> > distance and assuming that it(the tag) will always be consistent, then
> i
> >> > would always suggest regexp. xml parsing is a pain.
> >>
> >> regexp is a bad solution to parse xml.
> >>
> >> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
> >> instead of developer time.  Minidom is available in standard library,
> >> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
> >> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.
> >>
> >> I don't think there will be significant performance difference between
> >> regexp and minidom unless you are doing it a million times.
> >>
> >>
> > Well, i have clearly mentioned my assumptions - i.e, when you treat the
> XML
> > as a 'string' and do not want
> > to retrieve anything else in a 'structured manner'. I am a speed-maniac
> and
> > crave for speed; so if the assumption is valid,
> > i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater solution.
> I
> > have done some speed experiments
> > in past on this (results of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
> >
> > XP asks you implement the best solution with the least effort and i think
> in
> > this case regexp is a winner. Thoughts can vary though.
>
> regexp can at the best be a dirty-hack, not a best solution for xml
> parsing.
>
>
read again : i am not actually working on 'xml' (see my assumption?).

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:07:35 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:37:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTaOuewT0WrjPz40J0hpJ6CJMk+pp+RY=-bYb=AT-gMiw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Well, i have clearly mentioned my assumptions - i.e, when you treat
> > the XML as a 'string' and do not want to retrieve anything else in a
> > 'structured manner'.
>
>
> If the data is structured, it makes sense to exploit that structure and
> use a proper solution.
>

yes, and xml parsing is a bad way when you are not interested in the xml
structure..


> I find it highly unlikely that for a large program sufferring from low
> performance, replacing an XML parser with a regexp based parser will
> significantly improve peformance.
>

Sigh! Again, guys, i am referring to regexp when all you need is some number
within a tag!
If the content of that tag was text, i would have never suggested this
solution.

HTH.

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:14:11 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:44:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFTaOuewT0WrjPz40J0hpJ6CJMk+pp+RY=-bYb=AT-gMiw@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:37:35 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTaOuewT0WrjPz40J0hpJ6CJMk+pp+RY=-bYb=AT-gMiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87tya5ehqk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> Sigh! Again, guys, i am referring to regexp when all you need is some
> number within a tag!  If the content of that tag was text, i would
> have never suggested this solution.
[...]

And I'm telling you that even a slight change to the tag - an extra
space, a newline, a new attribute, a change in case or any such thing
which doesn't modify it's meaning as far as the XML snippet is concerned
will break your regexp and cause your program to crash. 

I'm asking you to consider what you're trading for this assumed increase
in speed. 


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

The scene is dull. Tell him to put more life into his dying. -- Samuel Goldwyn

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:15:58 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:45:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87tya5ehqk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTaOuewT0WrjPz40J0hpJ6CJMk+pp+RY=-bYb=AT-gMiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<87tya5ehqk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFSMt4oQsxw9A=pyXpCQxXWH20mq+ACYMZrmeD0fmg-VhA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> And I'm telling you that even a slight change to the tag - an extra
> space, a newline, a new attribute, a change in case or any such thing
> which doesn't modify it's meaning as far as the XML snippet is concerned
> will break your regexp and cause your program to crash.
>
> I'm asking you to consider what you're trading for this assumed increase
> in speed.
>

Along the same lines...the problems are more when xml is concerned, for even
if some other tag is malformed, then the
whole document is 'gone'.

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:24:01 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:54:01 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
> > valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater
> > solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
> > of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
>
> Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.
>

I belong to a different school. I think about performance right from the
design dashboards for i think, be it a simple webapp or a financial
application, the choice of your design patterns and techstack goes a long
way in a good customer experience. Bulk of my thoughts are reflected in here
: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/performance-is-a-feature.html

I generally lay emphasis on 2 things when it comes to webapps : 1) Layout
and 2)Speed. I am ready to sacrifice certain features; if i think a certain
feature will cause some issues with customer experience(after all we are
developing apps for the customer and if he is made to wait for 5s for an
events, then its bad), i would rather not present it or present in some
'other' fashion(like a batched job?).

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 08:50:27 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:20:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:54:01 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
>> > valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater
>> > solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
>> > of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
>>
>> Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.
>>
>
> I belong to a different school. I think about performance right from the
> design dashboards for i think, be it a simple webapp or a financial
> application, the choice of your design patterns and techstack goes a long
> way in a good customer experience. Bulk of my thoughts are reflected in here
> :
> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/performance-is-a-feature.html

I agree and I try my best to do the same thing. However, I differentiate
between micro optimsations like rewriting parts in C and XML and top
level optimisations like good design and the right data structures. 

The former, I don't do because I get bogged down by the details and end
up delivering something that's super fast *really* late. The latter, I
do because otherwise, the application is unusable and a bad
experience. Also, micro optimising (e.g. replacing DOM parsing with
regexps to extract stuff out of an XML message) makes code more brittle
which is also a no win for the customer.

I end up messing with the former only when I've exhausted all other
avenues and *really* need that last drop of juice. This is usually
common in games and stuff like that with continous involved user
interaction rather than in webapps where it's a little more spaced out. 

If performance is *this* important to you, why don't you code your
entire application in assembly hand crafting it for a certain processor,
amount of memory and hard disk platter speed? Why use Python at all? The
reason is because Python is "fast enough" for most things. You can get
better performance moving to lower level routines but it's often not
necessary and the costs it entails are usually not worth it. Better a
fast enough stable app than a super fast one that occasionally segfaults
and loses data.

That's the point I'm trying to make.


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

If I could drop dead right now, I'd be the happiest man alive! -- Samuel Goldwyn

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 09:20:29 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:50:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6QFwn5p8_AGXEkfiWyagCxVv0pjFi_Jnsic2PbE5bO_vA@mail.gmail.com>

+1.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
>>> > valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater
>>> > solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
>>> > of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
>>>
>>> Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.
>>>
>>
>> I belong to a different school. I think about performance right from the
>> design dashboards for i think, be it a simple webapp or a financial
>> application, the choice of your design patterns and techstack goes a long
>> way in a good customer experience. Bulk of my thoughts are reflected in here
>> :
>> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/performance-is-a-feature.html
>
> I agree and I try my best to do the same thing. However, I differentiate
> between micro optimsations like rewriting parts in C and XML and top
> level optimisations like good design and the right data structures.
>
> The former, I don't do because I get bogged down by the details and end
> up delivering something that's super fast *really* late. The latter, I
> do because otherwise, the application is unusable and a bad
> experience. Also, micro optimising (e.g. replacing DOM parsing with
> regexps to extract stuff out of an XML message) makes code more brittle
> which is also a no win for the customer.
>
> I end up messing with the former only when I've exhausted all other
> avenues and *really* need that last drop of juice. This is usually
> common in games and stuff like that with continous involved user
> interaction rather than in webapps where it's a little more spaced out.
>
> If performance is *this* important to you, why don't you code your
> entire application in assembly hand crafting it for a certain processor,
> amount of memory and hard disk platter speed? Why use Python at all? The
> reason is because Python is "fast enough" for most things. You can get
> better performance moving to lower level routines but it's often not
> necessary and the costs it entails are usually not worth it. Better a
> fast enough stable app than a super fast one that occasionally segfaults
> and loses data.
>
> That's the point I'm trying to make.
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> ~noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
>
> If I could drop dead right now, I'd be the happiest man alive! -- Samuel Goldwyn
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From umar43 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 09:33:23 2011
From: umar43 at gmail.com (Umar Shah)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:03:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAHQkf6QFwn5p8_AGXEkfiWyagCxVv0pjFi_Jnsic2PbE5bO_vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
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	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAHQkf6QFwn5p8_AGXEkfiWyagCxVv0pjFi_Jnsic2PbE5bO_vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABqGjSreon3uv6vauqZjs0pQ=LEUcbz+Z76sX0XVT4toP3NGeQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com>wrote:

> +1.
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> > I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
> >>> > valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and
> neater
> >>> > solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
> >>> > of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
> >>>
> >>> Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I belong to a different school. I think about performance right from the
> >> design dashboards for i think, be it a simple webapp or a financial
> >> application, the choice of your design patterns and techstack goes a
> long
> >> way in a good customer experience. Bulk of my thoughts are reflected in
> here
> >> :
> >> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/performance-is-a-feature.html
> >
> > I agree and I try my best to do the same thing. However, I differentiate
> > between micro optimsations like rewriting parts in C and XML and top
> > level optimisations like good design and the right data structures.
> >
> > The former, I don't do because I get bogged down by the details and end
> > up delivering something that's super fast *really* late. The latter, I
> > do because otherwise, the application is unusable and a bad
> > experience. Also, micro optimising (e.g. replacing DOM parsing with
> > regexps to extract stuff out of an XML message) makes code more brittle
> > which is also a no win for the customer.
> >
> > I end up messing with the former only when I've exhausted all other
> > avenues and *really* need that last drop of juice. This is usually
> > common in games and stuff like that with continous involved user
> > interaction rather than in webapps where it's a little more spaced out.
> >
> > If performance is *this* important to you, why don't you code your
> > entire application in assembly hand crafting it for a certain processor,
> > amount of memory and hard disk platter speed? Why use Python at all? The
> > reason is because Python is "fast enough" for most things. You can get
> > better performance moving to lower level routines but it's often not
> > necessary and the costs it entails are usually not worth it. Better a
> > fast enough stable app than a super fast one that occasionally segfaults
> > and loses data.
> >
> > That's the point I'm trying to make.
> >
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~noufal
> > http://nibrahim.net.in
> >
> > If I could drop dead right now, I'd be the happiest man alive! -- Samuel
> Goldwyn
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 09:39:34 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:09:34 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>

n Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree and I try my best to do the same thing. However, I differentiate
> between micro optimsations like rewriting parts in C and XML and top
> level optimisations like good design and the right data structures.
>
>
Using regexp is micro optimization?


> The former, I don't do because I get bogged down by the details and end
> up delivering something that's super fast *really* late. The latter, I
> do because otherwise, the application is unusable and a bad
> experience. Also, micro optimising (e.g. replacing DOM parsing with
> regexps to extract stuff out of an XML message) makes code more brittle
> which is also a no win for the customer.
>

IMHO, regexps are much more powerful and fault tolerant than XML parsing.
XMLs are brittle.


> If performance is *this* important to you, why don't you code your
> entire application in assembly hand crafting it for a certain processor,
> amount of memory and hard disk platter speed? Why use Python at all? The
> reason is because Python is "fast enough" for most things. You can get
> better performance moving to lower level routines but it's often not
> necessary and the costs it entails are usually not worth it. Better a
> fast enough stable app than a super fast one that occasionally segfaults
> and loses data.
>

Not sure how this point is relevant; the amount of performance you need is
dependant on the nature of application you develop.

For eg, see this presentation for how simple hacks like 'compressing' dom
'getters/setters' can affect browser performance.
http://paulirish.com/2011/dom-html5-css3-performance/
At the same time, look at this TED talk wherein trading applications spend
billions of $ for milliseconds performance gains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE

For a webapp, XML parsing is very important factor that the developer *must*
consider while designing.

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 10:31:19 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:01:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:09:34 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

> n Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree and I try my best to do the same thing. However, I differentiate
>> between micro optimsations like rewriting parts in C and XML and top
>> level optimisations like good design and the right data structures.
>>
>>
> Using regexp is micro optimization?

For parsing XML, yes it is. 

It's not the first thing I'd use and it's something I'd consider only
after I've exhausted everything else and have reason to believe that my
application is not fast enough just because I'm using an XML parser
instead of a regexp.

There are some places where I would use regexps instead of a parser
upfront though. Mostly related to streams of bad XML data (particularly
while screen scraping) but even then, a fault tolerant parser would do
better than regexps. 


[...]

> IMHO, regexps are much more powerful and fault tolerant than XML parsing.
> XMLs are brittle.

If you say so. I don't have much more to say on this. 

There was an interesting "exchange" a while ago between ERic Raymond and
John Graham-Cumming on using regexps. vs. a regular parser while
screenscraping to fetch data out of a forge site.  Here's the link. You
might find it interesting

http://blog.jgc.org/2009/11/parsing-html-in-python-with.html#links

>> If performance is *this* important to you, why don't you code your
>> entire application in assembly hand crafting it for a certain processor,
>> amount of memory and hard disk platter speed? Why use Python at all? The
>> reason is because Python is "fast enough" for most things. You can get
>> better performance moving to lower level routines but it's often not
>> necessary and the costs it entails are usually not worth it. Better a
>> fast enough stable app than a super fast one that occasionally segfaults
>> and loses data.
>>
>
> Not sure how this point is relevant; the amount of performance you
> need is dependant on the nature of application you develop.

Yup. And I put it to you that switching from a regular XML parser to a
regexp based one will not give you a sufficient speed boost to justify
the higher maintenance costs in most cases. 


> For a webapp, XML parsing is very important factor that the developer
> *must* consider while designing.

And your advice is to use regexps to do this? 


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. Include me out. -Samuel Goldwyn

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 10:38:54 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:08:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3UTYL6M9XDgn=+dRwC5w6iZVewUCrqsUfEDe+RRtt+CFGzRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO, regexps are much more powerful and fault tolerant than XML parsing.
> XMLs are brittle.

Did you mean parsing XML using Regular Expressions is "more powerful
and fault tolerant" than using a XML parser?

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From gora at mimirtech.com  Fri Jul 29 11:16:22 2011
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:46:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3UTYJ2vsw57AOrgaxjXusgZo8hQvdFVG9tXykyB=W9-_v84A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ3UTYJ2vsw57AOrgaxjXusgZo8hQvdFVG9tXykyB=W9-_v84A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACiMRGL5qr=P9pqtmVj5+jX2yze33LBDKwvhu6ODnVKAViUFpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Baishampayan Ghose <b.ghose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> minidom is the fastest solution if you consider the programmer time
>> instead of developer time. ?Minidom is available in standard library,
>> you don't have to add another dependency and worry about PyPI
>> downtimes and lxml compilations failures.
>
> FWIW, ElementTree is a part of the standard library as well and is
> known to be much better than minidom in various ways.

Being part of the standard library is a big plus. However ,
as compared to lxml, one thing that seemed to be missing
in more "standard" Python XML libraries is XSLT. This is
incredibly useful in some contexts. I would love to learn
about XSLT support in other libraries.

Here is the blog post about the performance of Python XML
libraries that I was referring to earlier:
http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Regards,
Gora

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 11:37:41 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:07:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQkf6Rx7CJ3FXiDMePjrZ-767eONX1pUh8f8ka17n4fh2q5Dw@mail.gmail.com>

> Along the same lines...the problems are more when xml is concerned, for even
> if some other tag is malformed, then the
> whole document is 'gone'.
Well, then - the API is broken and is basically violating the TOS for
the API (which I would at a minimum expect to return valid output or
the appropriate HTTP error code). How defensive do you get about all
the 3rd parties that are violating your TOS? Defensive enough to not
use a standard like an XML parser + XPATH?

If the XML itself isn't malformed, but the XML document has changed
(not unusual with document oriented services) then that's exactly why
you'd want to use a more tolerant lookup scheme like XPATH.

Anyway, when in doubt, I say look up c2.com.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RegularExpression - just do an in-page search
for the comments on XML.
TL;DR
* Be clear whether you're simply picking text out of the file or parsing it.
* You can't parse XML with regexps
* If you're doing a simple pattern lookup, why use XML? Clearly you
don't care about the document structure.

Best,
Sidu.
http://c42.in

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > I am a speed-maniac and crave for speed; so if the assumption is
>> > valid, i can vouch for the fact that regexp would be faster and neater
>> > solution. I have done some speed experiments in past on this (results
>> > of which i do not have handy), and i found this.
>>
>> Premature optimisation is the root of all evil.
>>
>
> I belong to a different school. I think about performance right from the
> design dashboards for i think, be it a simple webapp or a financial
> application, the choice of your design patterns and techstack goes a long
> way in a good customer experience. Bulk of my thoughts are reflected in here
> : http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/06/performance-is-a-feature.html
>
> I generally lay emphasis on 2 things when it comes to webapps : 1) Layout
> and 2)Speed. I am ready to sacrifice certain features; if i think a certain
> feature will cause some issues with customer experience(after all we are
> developing apps for the customer and if he is made to wait for 5s for an
> events, then its bad), i would rather not present it or present in some
> 'other' fashion(like a batched job?).
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 13:11:14 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:41:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>

Noufal,

I have nothing more to say than this(as i see some tangential replies which
i am not interested in substantiating - for eg, i never suggested to use a
regexp based parser - a regexp based xml parser is different from using 'a'
regexp on a string!!!!!) :

Read my replies properly. Read my assumptions properly w.r.t the xml
structure and the requested value in the xml.  Read the link that you have
pasted again. If possible, read the comments in the link shared(from esr)
again.  Once done, think twice and tell me which is better. If you vouch for
xml parsing in the case when all that you need from the string is a simple
numeric value(not a string), then good luck; unlike esr i will not use
adjectives; but i would not use your code either.

Thanks.

-V

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 13:13:40 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:43:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:41:14 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bowdbaqj.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> Read my replies properly. Read my assumptions properly w.r.t the xml
> structure and the requested value in the xml.  Read the link that you
> have pasted again. If possible, read the comments in the link
> shared(from esr) again.  Once done, think twice and tell me which is
> better. If you vouch for xml parsing in the case when all that you
> need from the string is a simple numeric value(not a string), then
> good luck; unlike esr i will not use adjectives; but i would not use
> your code either.

[...]

Fair enough.


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

"Professional certification for car people may sound like an oxymoron." -The Wall Street Journal, page B1, Tuesday, July 17, 1990.

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 14:28:18 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:58:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python Game developers
Message-ID: <87y5zh8e59.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>


Are there any people on this list who are into developing games in
Python? If there are atleast 3 or 4, it'd be swell if we could get
together at PyCon India and write one. We could discuss the overall
direction beforehand and then get our hands dirty at the conference and
release ver 0.1 along with the event. 


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Everyone writes on the walls except me. -Said to be graffiti seen in Pompeii

From delegbede at dudupay.com  Fri Jul 29 15:48:30 2011
From: delegbede at dudupay.com (Dipo Elegbede)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:48:30 +0100
Subject: [BangPypers] NumPy Help
Message-ID: <CAGW-7FG7Se8Uh46x8+_BL1Q57csygwTmB12_mzSQ+t60W47nyg@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone please help me with this task.
I would appreciate if you can point me to an example or brief explanation.
I have a 4 by 4 matrix filled with 0s, 1s and 2s.
I want to loop through the whole matrix to get the fields with 1s and 2s
only and then count how many ones and how many twos.

Please help.

-- 
Elegbede Muhammed Oladipupo
OCA
+2348077682428
+2347042171716
www.dudupay.com
Mobile Banking Solutions | Transaction Processing | Enterprise Application
Development

From senthil at uthcode.com  Fri Jul 29 16:18:22 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:18:22 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] Python Game developers
In-Reply-To: <87y5zh8e59.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <87y5zh8e59.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20110729141822.GA2486@mathmagic>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 05:58:18PM +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> Are there any people on this list who are into developing games in
> Python? If there are atleast 3 or 4, it'd be swell if we could get

Using pygame and pyglet? Yes.

> together at PyCon India and write one. We could discuss the overall

Unfortunately, I wont be attending this time. But over IRC, I can
surely.

-- 
Senthil

From dialkforkaushik at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 16:21:21 2011
From: dialkforkaushik at gmail.com (kaushik kalyanaraman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:21:21 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] NumPy Help
In-Reply-To: <CAGW-7FG7Se8Uh46x8+_BL1Q57csygwTmB12_mzSQ+t60W47nyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGW-7FG7Se8Uh46x8+_BL1Q57csygwTmB12_mzSQ+t60W47nyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO6PMqq5ov2e2FGp3cGq542hpJkmc+vi_iEPQcDxY45LW-d_gw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Elegbede,

> I have a 4 by 4 matrix filled with 0s, 1s and 2s.
> I want to loop through the whole matrix to get the fields with 1s and 2s
> only and then count how many ones and how many twos.
http://dpaste.org/UI5A/

HTH.

-kk
-- 
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do
not know, that is true knowledge.

From noufal at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 20:06:07 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 23:36:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python Game developers
In-Reply-To: <20110729141822.GA2486@mathmagic> (Senthil Kumaran's message of
	"Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:18:22 +0800")
References: <87y5zh8e59.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<20110729141822.GA2486@mathmagic>
Message-ID: <87k4b17yi8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 05:58:18PM +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
>> Are there any people on this list who are into developing games in
>> Python? If there are atleast 3 or 4, it'd be swell if we could get
>
> Using pygame and pyglet? Yes.
>
>> together at PyCon India and write one. We could discuss the overall
>
> Unfortunately, I wont be attending this time. But over IRC, I can
> surely.

PyGame probably. That's what I use anyway. I've been toying with
BulletML the past week or so. It's also an interesting tool.

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

As famous as the unknown soldier.

From asif.jamadar at rezayat.net  Sat Jul 30 09:43:15 2011
From: asif.jamadar at rezayat.net (Asif Jamadar)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:43:15 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] if not with comparision statement in python
Message-ID: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>

if not minimum<=actual_result and  not maximum>=actual_result:


How to check if actual result is not laying between minimum value and maximum value.

how should I represent the above statement in python?

Any suggestions?

From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Jul 30 10:40:29 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:10:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] if not with comparision statement in python
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	(Asif Jamadar's message of "Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:43:15 +0000")
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <87pqksp3eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net> writes:

> if not minimum<=actual_result and  not maximum>=actual_result:
>
>
> How to check if actual result is not laying between minimum value and maximum value.
>
> how should I represent the above statement in python?
>
> Any suggestions?

[...]

The following will check for result being within range. 

if min <= result <= max:
   within_range()

Negating that

if not min <= result <= max:
   without_range()

will check if the value is without.


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Smoking is the leading cause of statistics.

From navin.kabra at gmail.com  Sat Jul 30 10:40:54 2011
From: navin.kabra at gmail.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:10:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] if not with comparision statement in python
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <CAMBgbCve_2skHGPounFfhEdXCDp6Um6DyE7L7dDM-VaQzjFn1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net> wrote:
> if not minimum<=actual_result and ?not maximum>=actual_result:
>
> How to check if actual result is not laying between minimum value and maximum value.

if not minimum <= actual_result <= maximum:

From asif.jamadar at rezayat.net  Sat Jul 30 10:45:46 2011
From: asif.jamadar at rezayat.net (Asif Jamadar)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 08:45:46 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] if not with comparision statement in python
In-Reply-To: <87pqksp3eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87pqksp3eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006B0E@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>

What if I have two lists for both minimum and maximum values

Minimum  Maximum
0		10
11		20
21		30	
31		40	


Now how should I check if actual result is not laying between above ranges

if not minimum<=actual_result and  not maximum>=actual_result:

Any suggestions?		

From noufal at gmail.com  Sat Jul 30 10:52:37 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:22:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] if not with comparision statement in python
In-Reply-To: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006B0E@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	(Asif Jamadar's message of "Sat, 30 Jul 2011 08:45:46 +0000")
References: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006AE9@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
	<87pqksp3eq.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006B0E@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>
Message-ID: <87livgp2ui.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Asif Jamadar <asif.jamadar at rezayat.net> writes:

> What if I have two lists for both minimum and maximum values
>
> Minimum  Maximum
> 0		10
> 11		20
> 21		30	
> 31		40	
>
>
> Now how should I check if actual result is not laying between above ranges
>
> if not minimum<=actual_result and  not maximum>=actual_result:
>
> Any suggestions?		

[...]

Loop through your list and check for each pair. 

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Of course I can keep secrets. It's the people I tell them to that can't keep them. -Anthony Haden-Guest

From asif.jamadar at rezayat.net  Sun Jul 31 16:21:58 2011
From: asif.jamadar at rezayat.net (Asif Jamadar)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:21:58 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Install suds for python27 on windows
Message-ID: <CC0CC2862BF94D41A65DC4511A12B49329006C29@weaver.REZAYAT.NET>

How can I install 'suds' for python27 on windows?




From abpillai at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 16:27:49 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:57:49 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACpj97Cjsn0t4c6P7jVqt6CO9smXCH-CmcM0HnszitkynPnbHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Noufal,
>
> I have nothing more to say than this(as i see some tangential replies which
> i am not interested in substantiating - for eg, i never suggested to use a
> regexp based parser - a regexp based xml parser is different from using 'a'
> regexp on a string!!!!!) :
>
> Read my replies properly. Read my assumptions properly w.r.t the xml
> structure and the requested value in the xml.  Read the link that you have
> pasted again. If possible, read the comments in the link shared(from esr)
> again.  Once done, think twice and tell me which is better. If you vouch
> for
> xml parsing in the case when all that you need from the string is a simple
> numeric value(not a string), then good luck; unlike esr i will not use
> adjectives; but i would not use your code either.
>

To be fair here, I think what he is saying is that Kenneth's problem
(getting
at the particular value) can be solved by using an aptly written regular
expression which might be the fastest - not in terms of CPU cycles alone,
but in terms of time to code it up - solution.

It is not impossible to write a regular expression which will work for
bad (invalid) XML as well.

Don't forget that a lot of XML/HTML parsers are actually implemented
using regular expressions. You can take a look at sgmllib.SGMLParser,
htmllib.HTMLParser etc.

No complex text processing gets done without some kind of regular expression
behind the scenes.



>
> Thanks.
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
--Anand

From noufal at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 18:46:43 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:16:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CACpj97Cjsn0t4c6P7jVqt6CO9smXCH-CmcM0HnszitkynPnbHg@mail.gmail.com>
	(Anand Balachandran Pillai's message of "Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:57:49
	+0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAC7wXFzf24ANFRWckpPiUn4zMayD_mA53A2N=3b3NGA_7M9h3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1311849103.1742.74.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAHQkf6RjJ0K1+hMuGSoXssdb9pd+g8fFaVikRT+uyin5n22p6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFR0_75S9FWz_4XDC0geq7aAntWm=0Lv8zyFGROP2BecyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7wXFwY=35myPKUi5pn=SjXoazc8Uxu4xk1_mJcc-WHAYEFCQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFS_0UKACJaiPASz6okRxUkANprLn_EDUNiMZ9uG0jtK9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y5zheibg.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFQ-47FzpNa6HLpjQw_FwUv49t+zSNZJZS0FM8YGZ_8JUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87d3gteg24.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFTYmD0tvtTFtyo2EwckeFBKZn+zXMeP8pg5WxsPyqFA=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<87fwlpcwtk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<CAN7tdFSnNPp1VdcRnABpMYhyfqZL_AoH+LFtQGikOizd_Uy5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACpj97Cjsn0t4c6P7jVqt6CO9smXCH-CmcM0HnszitkynPnbHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87oc0aqtxo.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Anand Balachandran Pillai <abpillai at gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> To be fair here, I think what he is saying is that Kenneth's problem
> (getting at the particular value) can be solved by using an aptly
> written regular expression which might be the fastest - not in terms
> of CPU cycles alone, but in terms of time to code it up - solution.

That would depend on what one is familiar with. If all one has is a
hammer... etc.

Anand's minidom thing is a one liner. 

I understand what Venkat is saying. He's treating the data as a string
rather than an XML fragment for his purposes and using a regexp to get
the data out of it. 


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

Monotheism is a gift from the gods.

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 19:28:58 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:58:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
>
> here is a simplified version of an xml file:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>    <gpx >
>        <metadata>
>                <author>
>                <name>CloudMade</name>
>                <email id="support" domain="cloudmade.com" />
>                <link href="http://maps.cloudmade.com"></link>
>                </author>
>                <copyright author="CloudMade">
>                <license>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license</license>
>                </copyright>
>                <time>2011-07-28T07:04:01</time>
>        </metadata>
>            <extensions>
>                <distance>1489</distance>
>                <time>344</time>
>                <start>S?gerstra?e</start>
>                <end>Im Gisinger Feld</end>
>            </extensions>
>    </gpx>
>
> I want to get the value of the distance element - 1489. What is the
> simplest way of doing this?
>

re.search("<distance>\s*(\d+)\s*</distance>",data).group(1)

would appear to be the most succinct and quite fast. Adjust for whitespace
as and if necessary.

Yet I would probably use the minidom based approach, if I was sure the input
was likely to be continue to be xml. Anand C's solution (elsewhere in the
thread) reflects the programmers intent in a simpler, less obfuscated form
(both correctly working solutions will communicate the intent with exactly
the same precision - the precision required to make the program work).

As far as optimisation goes - I can see at least 3 options

a. the minidom performance is acceptable - no further optimisation required
b. minidom performance is not acceptable - try the regex one
c. python library performance is not acceptable - switch to 'c'

I can imagine people starting with a and then deciding to move along the
path a->b->c if and as necessary.
I believe starting with b risks obfuscating code (imo regex is obfuscated
compared to xml nodes - YMMV)
I don't know of any python programmers who are speed-maniacs. I am worried
anytime someone programs in something else than assembly/machine code and
uses the latter word. The rest of us are just trading off development speed
vs. runtime speed.

Dhananjay

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 20:03:57 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:33:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7tdFQBF-QKTtj1WXmGeVTFCrTjjt-q9GOditWjo45Fg_UcFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> a. the minidom performance is acceptable - no further optimisation required
> b. minidom performance is not acceptable - try the regex one
> c. python library performance is not acceptable - switch to 'c'
>
> I can imagine people starting with a and then deciding to move along the
> path a->b->c if and as necessary.
> I believe starting with b risks obfuscating code (imo regex is obfuscated
> compared to xml nodes - YMMV)
>

A regex is the simplest IMHO, because you need not know the syntax of the
minidom parser.
But, again i have seen this quiet often that lack of knowledge of regexp has
led people to other solutions (the grapes are sour!)


> I don't know of any python programmers who are speed-maniacs. I am worried
> anytime someone programs in something else than assembly/machine code and
> uses the latter word. The rest of us are just trading off development speed
> vs. runtime speed.
>

Hang around in #django or #python. The most elegant code that you *should*
write would invariably be pretty fast (am not ref to asm).

From noufal at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 21:13:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 00:43:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>
	(Dhananjay Nene's message of "Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:58:58 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <878vreqn55.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> re.search("<distance>\s*(\d+)\s*</distance>",data).group(1)
>
> would appear to be the most succinct and quite fast. Adjust for whitespace
> as and if necessary.

Whitespace (including newlines), mixed cases etc. 


[...]

> As far as optimisation goes - I can see at least 3 options
>
> a. the minidom performance is acceptable - no further optimisation required
> b. minidom performance is not acceptable - try the regex one
> c. python library performance is not acceptable - switch to 'c'

I'd switch b and c. If elementree is not fast enough, I'd switch to
celementree and if that's not fast enough, I'd try some hand parsing.

> I can imagine people starting with a and then deciding to move along
> the path a->b->c if and as necessary.  I believe starting with b risks
> obfuscating code (imo regex is obfuscated compared to xml nodes -
> YMMV)

As someone who messed with perl for a long time, I can attest to their
power an unmaintainability. I stay away from them unless I really need
them. But yes, people like Larry Wall seem to think in a fundamentally
different way so YMMV.


[...]


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

I tripped over a hole that was sticking up out of the ground.

From noufal at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 21:16:06 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 00:46:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] parsing xml
In-Reply-To: <CAN7tdFQBF-QKTtj1WXmGeVTFCrTjjt-q9GOditWjo45Fg_UcFw@mail.gmail.com>
	(Venkatraman S.'s message of "Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:33:57 +0530")
References: <1311846517.1742.73.camel@xlquest.web>
	<CAD2aR4OfzYoYVwRP_gneTSav5hjzaZJLddWZT6aLYwY57n8KUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN7tdFQBF-QKTtj1WXmGeVTFCrTjjt-q9GOditWjo45Fg_UcFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8739hmqn0p.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> writes:

[...]


> A regex is the simplest IMHO, because you need not know the syntax of the
> minidom parser.

Oh come on. This sounds like doing it the wrong way because you're not
going to spend time reading the docs and then using performance as a
cover for the laziness. 

[...]

> Hang around in #django or #python. The most elegant code that you
> *should* write would invariably be pretty fast (am not ref to asm).

I agree with you here. Pythonicity is best defined as what the
experienced python core devs do and the stuff they use the most is
optimised a lot. Pythonic python code is often the fastest python code.



[...]



-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

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