From as1438 at msstate.edu  Mon May  2 04:24:50 2011
From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma)
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:24:50 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython
Message-ID: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group. Does
anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in
Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently, please.

Thanks

- Ananya

From nitin.nitp at gmail.com  Mon May  2 05:29:06 2011
From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:59:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=dJEEQF=CCi9aHGm_Bj=7BxYmsJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

If you are beginner in python then you should first learn few basics of
python(like module package list dict etc), then BioPython will be an easy
task for you.No need to take separate class for BioPython for sure.

Thanks
Nitin K

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Ananya Sharma <as1438 at msstate.edu> wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group.
> Does
> anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in
> Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently, please.
>
> Thanks
>
> - Ananya
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Nitin K

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Mon May  2 08:50:20 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:20:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] editor for restructured text
In-Reply-To: <1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost>
References: <1303973137.1942.360.camel@localhost> <87y62u6dmr.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303976955.1942.363.camel@localhost> <87tydi6buh.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303981704.1942.364.camel@localhost> <87mxja67yj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1304057779.1942.390.camel@localhost> <87wridfsqu.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinvsYB80Gfe_FJ2qa98HuS1JMi0aQ@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for emacs. I use Emacs with Markdown mode and it does well. During
initial stage, emacs is very harder to ACCEPT when you have used other
editors.
It frustrates so much and it makes you to remember key strokes as like vi.
When you start emacs freshly, then you should not tend to customize the
emacs, instead use it as it is with .rst mode extension as suggested by
others. I replace the Search with Ctrl + F than Ctrl + S and mapped Ctrl + S
to save the file typical Windows style. Other than that it works very
normally. I would recommend to use the cua mode for Copy/Cut/Paste shortcuts
than using default emacs binding.. www.emacswiki.org/*CuaMode.*

For out of box software user with no specific interest in extending the
editor, use the Gedit or other editors which support ReST.*

Typical Emacs(VI?) users are married to Emacs(VI?), so either they fit into
emacs way(user mindset) or they make emacs to fit into their way(customize).


--
Gopalakrishnan Subramani




*

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 12:29 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> > > in fedora the ReSt thingie is there by default
> >
> > Opening files with a .rst prefix should enable to mode automatically.
>
> yes - w00t
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Mon May  2 09:03:07 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:33:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
Message-ID: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody works here on Pyramid web framework? I have an aggregation portal, I
am planing to migrate to Pyramid in a month time.
I am looking for open-id authentication to use with Pyramid. Google search
shows me https://github.com/ralphbean/pyramid_openid

Any other framework do you use for open-id in Python? I will store the user
settings in redis not in RDBMS.

Thank you,
---

Krish

From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Mon May  2 09:05:25 2011
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:35:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani
<gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody works here on Pyramid web framework? I have an aggregation portal, I
> am planing to migrate to Pyramid in a month time.
> I am looking for open-id authentication to use with Pyramid. Google search
> shows me https://github.com/ralphbean/pyramid_openid
>
> Any other framework do you use for open-id in Python? I will store the user
> settings in redis not in RDBMS.

Flask has one OpenID extension:
http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/

--
Baiju M

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon May  2 12:49:19 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:19:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] editor for restructured text
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinvsYB80Gfe_FJ2qa98HuS1JMi0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	(Gopalakrishnan Subramani's message of "Mon, 2 May 2011 12:20:20
	+0530")
References: <1303973137.1942.360.camel@localhost> <87y62u6dmr.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303976955.1942.363.camel@localhost> <87tydi6buh.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1303981704.1942.364.camel@localhost> <87mxja67yj.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1304057779.1942.390.camel@localhost> <87wridfsqu.fsf@gmail.com>
	<1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTinvsYB80Gfe_FJ2qa98HuS1JMi0aQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wri94btc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Gopalakrishnan Subramani <gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> Typical Emacs(VI?) users are married to Emacs(VI?), so either they fit
> into emacs way(user mindset) or they make emacs to fit into their
> way(customize).

[...]

I have a pimped out Emacs config for editing Python code which I plan to
do a presentation on this year in Pune. 


-- 
I'm sure that that could be indented more readably, but I'm scared of
the awk parser.
		-- Larry Wall in <6849 at jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>

From as1438 at msstate.edu  Mon May  2 17:14:47 2011
From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:14:47 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=dJEEQF=CCi9aHGm_Bj=7BxYmsJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=dJEEQF=CCi9aHGm_Bj=7BxYmsJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinvVpgbgV=8eG4sS+0gYZ_k8TYAbA@mail.gmail.com>

Nitin,

Thanks for your immediate response.

The way I am learning Python is going through a book and doing those simple
exercises given at the end of each chapter, and also by watching YouTube
videos. I am not very good at passive learning (reading book to practice
stuff) that's why I was keen on getting into class so that I can get
actively involved in learning the language more efficiently.

I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all. So,
please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it from.

Thanks
-Ananya

On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Nitin Kumar <nitin.nitp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> If you are beginner in python then you should first learn few basics of
> python(like module package list dict etc), then BioPython will be an easy
> task for you.No need to take separate class for BioPython for sure.
>
> Thanks
> Nitin K
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Ananya Sharma <as1438 at msstate.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group.
> > Does
> > anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in
> > Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently,
> please.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > - Ananya
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nitin K
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From anandology at gmail.com  Mon May  2 17:48:57 2011
From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu)
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:18:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinvVpgbgV=8eG4sS+0gYZ_k8TYAbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=dJEEQF=CCi9aHGm_Bj=7BxYmsJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvVpgbgV=8eG4sS+0gYZ_k8TYAbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik4hk37M77ETRz9Q0AcUYUV2R0pqw@mail.gmail.com>

> I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all. So,
> please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it from.

If you want some good examples and exercises, you can try my python tutorial.

http://anandology.com/python-tutorial/

Anand

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue May  3 03:11:18 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:41:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinvVpgbgV=8eG4sS+0gYZ_k8TYAbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimnFuzdov2tvWT=EZ2j9qZMPaqd-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=dJEEQF=CCi9aHGm_Bj=7BxYmsJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvVpgbgV=8eG4sS+0gYZ_k8TYAbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1304385078.17425.73.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 10:14 -0500, Ananya Sharma wrote:
> I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all.
> So,
> please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it
> from. 

python in a nutshell by Alex Martelli
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From alok at hiddenreflex.com  Wed May  4 13:46:38 2011
From: alok at hiddenreflex.com (alok at hiddenreflex.com)
Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:46:38 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] [Job] Epic Browser Creators Hiring Web Developers!
Message-ID: <fda4e336cad43dc09cc3269ce8774610.squirrel@www.podvoters.org>

Hi Bangpypers,

We're a highly innovative product company, and seek like-minded software
engineers to join our team.  Hidden Reflex is the creator of the Epic
Browser, the first web browser for India, which in just 8 months has
nearly 7 lakh downloads across 194 countries.  Our second product is a
soon-to-be-launched django/python web application which will be one of the
largest news aggregation and delivery apps ever launched, and probably the
biggest ever for India.

If you want to work on cutting edge web technologies, are hard-working and
into all things technical...then you'll find a good home as part of our
team.  Please write me to begin a discussion!

Best Regards,
Alok, CEO and Founder
Hidden Reflex
alok at hiddenreflex dot com


From oommenkm at gmail.com  Thu May  5 12:17:08 2011
From: oommenkm at gmail.com (OOMMEN KM)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:47:08 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
Message-ID: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web
based application.
The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using
MySQL.
Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I
need to choose some frame works?

Please help me.

Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322

From ataulla at gmail.com  Thu May  5 12:22:18 2011
From: ataulla at gmail.com (Ataulla S H)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:52:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin0oOO0n1Ldi5awVfQbAOV1GtqUPw@mail.gmail.com>

go for pylons framework with mysql

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM <oommenkm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web
> based application.
> The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using
> MySQL.
> Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I
> need to choose some frame works?
>
> Please help me.
>
> Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu May  5 12:41:41 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:11:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 15:47 +0530, OOMMEN KM wrote:
> Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application?
> Or I
> need to choose some frame works? 

mod_python is dead - try django
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From benignbala at gmail.com  Thu May  5 12:55:35 2011
From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:25:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> mod_python is dead - try django

         Django may be a good option. But mod_python is not dead. The
verbatim message from mod_python website:

Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not
mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means
that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is
required to maintain it.

So, may be, if it is an opinion and not the exact fact, we can tell
that it is just a view/opinion and let the OP decide. Thanks


-- 
Thank you
Balachandran Sivakumar

Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.

Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/

From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Thu May  5 13:17:29 2011
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:47:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=UVyE9RpeBw4TAL+7dkEcPzuPFXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar
<benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> mod_python is dead - try django
>
> ? ? ? ? Django may be a good option. But mod_python is not dead. The
> verbatim message from mod_python website:
>
> Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not
> mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means
> that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is
> required to maintain it.

mod_python has been officially declared as dead.
And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years).
http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html
http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html

Regards,
Baiju M

From benignbala at gmail.com  Thu May  5 13:23:32 2011
From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:53:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=UVyE9RpeBw4TAL+7dkEcPzuPFXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UVyE9RpeBw4TAL+7dkEcPzuPFXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikURN_npcZqWOg85UMYAAZiSy1Jdg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Baiju M <baiju.m.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> mod_python has been officially declared as dead.

           It has been declared dead by a  few. The mod_python site
says it isn't.

> And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years).

          Yes, for about 2 years.

> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html
> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html
>

         The modpython site was updated sometime in October, which was
after these 2 posts. So, might be different. We won't know unless
someone raises a critical bug and how it is treated. Thanks


-- 
Thank you
Balachandran Sivakumar

Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.

Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/

From sudheer.s at sudheer.net  Thu May  5 13:31:02 2011
From: sudheer.s at sudheer.net (Sudheer Satyanarayana)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:01:02 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin0oOO0n1Ldi5awVfQbAOV1GtqUPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0oOO0n1Ldi5awVfQbAOV1GtqUPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DC28A76.30301@sudheer.net>

On Thursday 05 May 2011 03:52 PM, Ataulla S H wrote:
> go for pylons framework with mysql
To be precise, use Pyramid. Pylons is now a brand name under which 
several projects exist. Pylons 1.0 is now a legacy framework. If you are 
looking at Pylons, go with Pyramid. A typical Pyramid application uses 
SQLAlchemy ORM to talk to databases.

Like Kenneth mentioned, mod_python is dead.

WSGI is the way to go. A web server, paster is shipped along with 
Pyramid. You can use that as well. You could either use either paster or 
mod_wsgi.


-- 

With warm regards,
Sudheer. S
Personal home page - http://sudheer.net | Tech Chorus - http://techchorus.net
Web and IT services - http://binaryvibes.co.in
Twitter: http://twitter.com/bngsudheer http://twitter.com/binaryvibes


From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu May  5 13:40:39 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:10:39 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 16:25 +0530, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote:
> Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not
> mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means
> that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is
> required to maintain it. 

no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has
long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind would
use it.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From noufal at gmail.com  Thu May  5 13:56:43 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:26:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com> (OOMMEN KM's
	message of "Thu, 5 May 2011 15:47:08 +0530")
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

OOMMEN KM <oommenkm at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a
> web based application.  The application will have to handle a huge
> amount of data and we are using MySQL.  Will mod_python a good option
> for the development of this application? Or I need to choose some
> frame works?
[...]

One of the areas in the Python world where "There should be one-- and
preferably only one --obvious way to do it." is violated horribly is web
frameworks. There are tons of them out there each with their own
advantages and disadvantages. Partisans will probably direct you towards
the one they like the best and use but at the end of the day, you're
going to have to evaluate a bunch of them and decide. Here are some
notes on my experiences. 

Django - Very widely used and with a large community and 3rd party
plugins. Easy to get something done since many "standard" things already
have plugins written for them. The Pinax framework (as far as I know) is
Django + a lot of useful apps (in the Django sense) bundled together to
make life easy. The downsides is that it suffers from the NIH
syndrome[1] and you have to buy into it's own way of doing things if you
want to use it. 

Flask - Young and lightweight. Flexible with components (you can mix and
match parts). Very well documented, good community.

There's a bunch of offshoots of Zope (which was one of the earliest
successfuly Python projects) like Grok, web2py etc. Haven't used any of
them. 

I don't know anything about Pyramid and Pylons.

You should use a framework rather than code up everything yourself since
they take care of a lot of "standard" things for you (e.g user
authentication etc.). After you're done with your app, you need to
deploy it and that's where things like mod_wsgi[2], gunicorn etc. come
into the picture. You need to pick one of these and put your app in the
wild.

I'm sorry if you're looking for a clear single answer. There isn't one
and you've got your work cut out for you if you're going to do web
development. 


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here
[2]  mod_python was declared dead by Graham Dumpleton (the author) and
     he recommended that people start using mod_wsgi instead. 

-- 
Bones: "The man's DEAD, Jim!"

From senthil at uthcode.com  Thu May  5 14:30:57 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:30:57 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 05:10:39PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has
> long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind would
> use it.

Looks like I fall into that category. :)

I was using mod_python effectively in my previous job. It is simple
and easy to work with.  I knew about mod_wsgi and had plans for
migration as soon as I took over the project, but given the simplicity
of mod_python and since it met our purpose effectively, I just used
without any qualms.

Well, just hop over to Stackoverflow and search for mod_python, you
will find questions coming up every now and then.

I appreciate Balachandran's answers wherein he said that we can know
it is dead only when someone raises a critical bug and project does
not respond. Apache's also page says that mod_python is available from the
modpython.org website.

I was thinking that Graham Dumpleton (author of mod_wsgi) who calls
that mod_python is dead was the author of mod_python too (in that
case, argument would bear weight), but it looks he is not the author
of mod_python and it is for you to decide.

So, the conclusion one can draw is, some people might call you names if
you use mod_python and you can choose to ignore it, that's it. :)
If you find a good reason to move other framework, it would be definitely good,
and you will know your reasons well.

To the original poster (OOMMEN KM), choose whichever you like (random
choice of frameworks which Noufal mentioned in his response is fine,
mod_python is okay) and get started. After you get started, you will
be able to decide either to stick or quickly make jump and it won't be
difficult.

Hope this helps.

--
Senthil

Smoking is, as far as I'm concerned, the entire point of being an adult.
               -- Fran Lebowitz

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu May  5 14:36:40 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:06:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 20:30 +0800, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 05:10:39PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has
> > long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind
> would
> > use it.
> 
> Looks like I fall into that category. :)
> 
> I was using mod_python effectively in my previous job. It is simple
> and easy to work with.  I knew about mod_wsgi and had plans for
> migration as soon as I took over the project, but given the simplicity
> of mod_python and since it met our purpose effectively, I just used
> without any qualms. 

I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Thu May  5 14:42:16 2011
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:12:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikURN_npcZqWOg85UMYAAZiSy1Jdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UVyE9RpeBw4TAL+7dkEcPzuPFXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikURN_npcZqWOg85UMYAAZiSy1Jdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinAdJr1ZxjA6uL_1soD-hC9+3rpDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar
<benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Baiju M <baiju.m.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> mod_python has been officially declared as dead.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? It has been declared dead by a ?few. The mod_python site
> says it isn't.

It's not written by some "few", rather a long time maintainer of that project:

Look at these last commits (he even committed after the last release):
$ svn log --limit 100
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/quetzalcoatl/mod_python/trunk/ >
t.txt
$ grep "| grahamd |" t.txt |wc -l
75

>> And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years).
>
> ? ? ? ? ?Yes, for about 2 years.

The last released code is actually more old (2006 end is last commit
with any bugfixes)
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/quetzalcoatl/mod_python/tags/release-3-3-1/NEWS?view=log
so, any useful commit happened  almost 5 years before.

>> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html
>> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html
>>
>
> ? ? ? ? The modpython site was updated sometime in October, which was
> after these 2 posts. So, might be different. We won't know unless
> someone raises a critical bug and how it is treated.

FYI,
Apache has an official page to list dead projects:
http://attic.apache.org/
And the mod_python is listed there:
http://attic.apache.org/projects/quetzalcoatl.html

BTW, there is a new project to deploy WSGI apps in Apache:
http://www.modwsgi.org

Regards,
Baiju M

From senthil at uthcode.com  Thu May  5 15:02:29 2011
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 21:02:29 +0800
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>

On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache.

I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using
mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining
the project would be using mod_python.

But think of the scenario - It's whole purpose was to dispatch the
request handled by apache to python module which invoked tools and
many of them were standalone tools.

So, this is strictly not a web-application scenario (MVC kind), but a
usage scenario considering things we did with apache and other
binaries. mod_python served as an easy to use interface.

Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using
mod_python.

Regarding it is usage with modern apache, it is possible easily, just
an apt-get away if you are debian based systems.

On my ubuntu system, synaptic says that:

"""
The mod_python module supports web applications written in Python.
Because the parser is embedded in the server as an Apache module, it
will run much faster than traditional CGI.

This package is built for the current Python version.

Canonical provides critical updates for libapache2-mod-python until
April 2012.
"""

So, it installs well with latest apache and python. 

-- 
Senthil

The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it.
		-- Brian Kernighan

From noufal at gmail.com  Thu May  5 15:09:07 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:39:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> (Senthil Kumaran's message of "Thu, 
	5 May 2011 21:02:29 +0800")
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
Message-ID: <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> writes:

> On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
>> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache.
>
> I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using
> mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining
> the project would be using mod_python.

I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just
picked it up because it was available and simple to use. 

[...]


> Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using
> mod_python.

I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would
however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its
deprecated status.
[...]


-- 
	"Life and death are seldom logical."
	"But attaining a desired goal always is."
		-- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Fri May  6 07:11:33 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:41:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
	<20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
	<87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>

You need to be careful enough to choose between Django vs Pylons/Pyramid

Django has larger community than Pyramid has now and you are likely to find
many examples, tutorials, reusable apps and hacks in Django than Pyramid.
Until or unless you know that Django's default ORM or its template are not
suite your need, Django would be ideal choice for average web developer.

I personally prefer Pyramid..

Regards,

Gopalakrishnan Subramani






On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> writes:
>
> > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> >> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache.
> >
> > I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using
> > mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining
> > the project would be using mod_python.
>
> I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just
> picked it up because it was available and simple to use.
>
> [...]
>
>
> > Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using
> > mod_python.
>
> I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would
> however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its
> deprecated status.
> [...]
>
>
> --
>        "Life and death are seldom logical."
>        "But attaining a desired goal always is."
>                -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Tue May 10 08:23:44 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:53:44 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Companies using Django in Bangalore/Chennai
Message-ID: <BANLkTimGRuZMEvh6YcbngwKpvDgf8K+jWA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Was wondering which companies in Bangalore/Chennai use Django actively; was
wondering whether companies do
spend in getting their employees trained on Django; or is it more along the
lines of in-house training?

Also, i guess some of us are freelancers in this group - can you share the
approximate charges for your respective training(s)
along with the schedules?

-Venkat

From ramkrsna at gmail.com  Tue May 10 13:41:36 2011
From: ramkrsna at gmail.com (Ramakrishna Reddy)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:11:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [CFP] PyCon India 2011, Pune, India.
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=AU6mKcQy36mx9OsMW=Y+uSdVCqA@mail.gmail.com>

===================================================
PyCon India 2011 :: 16 - 18 September, Pune, India.
===================================================

The third edition of PyCon India is being held in Pune,India from 16th
September 2011 to 18th September 2011. The organisers of PyCon India
2011 are looking for talk and tutorial proposals to fill the formal
presentation and tutorial tracks. We accept proposals on a very broad
range of topics related to Python programming.

Important Dates
----------------
   Call for proposals opens: May 10, 2011
   Proposal submission deadline: June 30, 2011
   Proposal acceptance: July 18, 2011
   First presentation upload: Aug 15, 2011
   Final presentation upload (with changes if any): Aug 31, 2011


Permission to record/release presentations
------------------------------------------
In PyCon India, we intend to record all presentations live and release
the recordings for free on the Internet so as to benefit the wider
Python community. When you are submitting a proposal, you
automatically give the Indian Python Software Society, the organizers
of PyCon India, the permissions to record/edit and release the
audio/video of your presentation.No exceptions will be made in this
regard. If you do not want a recording of your presentation to be
made, don't submit a proposal. The released media will be licensed
under the Creative Commons Attribution License, version 3.0.

Topics for PyCon India
----------------------
We encourage high quality proposals in all the areas involving Python
: the language, its implementation, uses, and the community behind it.
Each proposal will be judged according to its correctness, clarity,
and elegance. We invite everyone interested in Python to participate.

  Core Python (including Python 3.x)

  Python standard library

  Other Python libraries and extensions

  Other Python implementations (such as PyPy, IronPython etc)

  Concurrency

  Databases

  Data Analysis/ Engineering in Python

  Scientific Programming

  Network programming

  Game programming

  Education and Training

  Embedding/extending

  GUI programming

  Packaging Python Code

  System administration

  Business applications

  Documentation

  Software development tools

  Testing

  Web programming

  Mobile computing

  Open source Python projects

Talk Format
-----------
The typical length of a talk should be no more than 45 minutes. The
presentation style should be concise, to the point with sufficient
examples to clarify the discussion to the audience, if needed. After
every talk there will be time reserved for questions from the audience
(10 minutes). We will be providing a buffer of 5-10 minutes between
talks so that the presenters get sufficient time to set-up their talk
and attendees can move between the halls.


Tutorial Format
---------------
The typical length of the tutorial should be no more than 3 hours. All
the classes run in PyCon India are volunteered. If you like to propose
a tutorial, The submission of the tutorials also follow the same time
lines as the talks.

Proposal submission
-------------------
Talk and tutorial proposals should be submitted to
http://in.pycon.org/2011/talks/submit

-- 
Ramakrishna Reddy? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? GPG
Key ID:31FF0090
Fingerprint =? 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F? 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090

From noufal at gmail.com  Tue May 10 21:12:07 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 00:42:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India CFP now open
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinLCo9hO-nKhvmD11sJsO_knyh2ag@mail.gmail.com> (Ramakrishna
	Reddy's message of "Tue, 10 May 2011 16:38:23 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinLCo9hO-nKhvmD11sJsO_knyh2ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871v06fjzs.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>


The call for proposals for PyCon India 2011 is open now. Please consider
submitting a proposal and spreading the word. 


Ramakrishna Reddy <ramkrsna at gmail.com> writes:

> ===================================================
> Pycon India 2011 :: 16 - 18 September, Pune, India.
> ===================================================
>
> The third edition of PyCon India is being held in Pune,India from 16th
> September 2011 to 18th September 2011. The organisers of PyCon India
> 2011 are looking for talk and tutorial proposals to fill the formal
> presentation and tutorial tracks. We accept proposals on a very broad
> range of topics related to Python programming.
>
> Important Dates
> ----------------
>     Call for proposals opens: May 10, 2011
>     Proposal submission deadline: June 30, 2011
>     Proposal acceptance: July 18, 2011
>     First presentation upload: Aug 15, 2011
>     Final presentation upload (with changes if any): Aug 31, 2011
>
>
> Permission to record/release presentations
> ------------------------------------------
> In PyCon India, we intend to record all presentations live and release
> the recordings for free on the Internet so as to benefit the wider
> Python community. When you are submitting a proposal, you
> automatically give the Indian Python Software Society, the organizers
> of PyCon India, the permissions to record/edit and release the
> audio/video of your presentation.No exceptions will be made in this
> regard. If you do not want a recording of your presentation to be
> made, don't submit a proposal. The released media will be licensed
> under the Creative Commons Attribution License, version 3.0.
>
> Topics for PyCon India
> ----------------------
> We encourage high quality proposals in all the areas involving Python
> : the language, its implementation, uses, and the community behind it.
> Each proposal will be judged according to its correctness, clarity,
> and elegance. We invite everyone interested in Python to participate.
>
>    Core Python (including Python 3.x)
>
>    Python standard library
>
>    Other Python libraries and extensions
>
>    Other Python implementations (such as PyPy, IronPython etc)
>
>    Concurrency
>
>    Databases
>
>    Data Analysis/ Engineering in Python
>
>    Scientific Programming
>
>    Network programming
>
>    Game programming
>
>    Education and Training
>
>    Embedding/extending
>
>    GUI programming
>
>    Packaging Python Code
>
>    System administration
>
>    Business applications
>
>    Documentation
>
>    Software development tools
>
>    Testing
>
>    Web programming
>
>    Mobile computing
>
>    Open source Python projects
>
> Talk Format
> -----------
> The typical length of a talk should be no more than 45 minutes. The
> presentation style should be concise, to the point with sufficient
> examples to clarify the discussion to the audience, if needed. After
> every talk there will be time reserved for questions from the audience
> (10 minutes). We will be providing a buffer of 5-10 minutes between
> talks so that the presenters get sufficient time to set-up their talk
> and attendees can move between the halls.
>
>
> Tutorial Format
> ---------------
> The typical length of the tutorial should be no more than 3 hours. All
> the classes run in PyCon India are volunteered. If you like to propose
> a tutorial, The submission of the tutorials also follow the same time
> lines as the talks.
>
> Proposal submission
> -------------------
> Talk and tutorial proposals should be submitted to
> http://in.pycon.org/2011/talks/submit

-- 
Captain's Log, star date 21:34.5...

From lawgon at thenilgiris.com  Thu May 12 03:46:55 2011
From: lawgon at thenilgiris.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:16:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
Message-ID: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost>

hi,

there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting
constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some
institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide
mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have
to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the
all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of
a modern web programmer.

I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will
produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be
flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can
run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the
trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty,
and accommodation will be provided/arranged.

As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is
guaranteed for anyone who passes. 

Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More
important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things.

Please contact me off list. 
-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/


From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Thu May 12 07:52:48 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:22:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost>
References: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinwpYm_QciXA9LoWss9RidLx4H3iw@mail.gmail.com>

A good venture Kenneth.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
<lawgon at thenilgiris.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting
> constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some
> institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide
> mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have
> to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the
> all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of
> a modern web programmer.
>
> I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will
> produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be
> flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can
> run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the
> trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty,
> and accommodation will be provided/arranged.
>
> As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is
> guaranteed for anyone who passes.
>
> Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More
> important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things.
>
> Please contact me off list.
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> Coimbatore LUG rox
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Thu May 12 11:27:39 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:57:39 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [X-POST] Python@Google in Google I/O
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=g44HJbXMDOce_qQqWF0bGBv08=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Was watching Python@ Google talk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQS8EDG1P4
Didnt know Python turned 20 in Feb this year! (Born in Feb 1991). Belated
wishes honey ;)

-V-
http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/

From sajuptpm at gmail.com  Thu May 12 19:46:25 2011
From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M)
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 23:16:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers]  [commercial] python/django training
Message-ID: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I think 25k is too high !!!


> hi,
>
> there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting
> constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some
> institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide
> mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have
> to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the
> all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of
> a modern web programmer.
>
> I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will
> produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be
> flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can
> run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the
> trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty,
> and accommodation will be provided/arranged.
>
> As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is
> guaranteed for anyone who passes.
>
> Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More
> important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things.
>
> Please contact me off list.
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> Coimbatore LUG rox
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Thu May 12 19:56:04 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 23:26:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=mGVhyz3m-p9x+k5xSDnyfAMjHbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Saju M <sajuptpm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I think 25k is too high !!!
>
> I think he is talking of an exhaustive 1-3 month course, that too in Ooty.

From lawgon at gmail.com  Sat May 14 03:07:09 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 06:37:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 23:16 +0530, Saju M wrote:
> I think 25k is too high !!!

it is low - less than the first month's salary.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From pasokan at gmail.com  Sat May 14 08:48:06 2011
From: pasokan at gmail.com (Asokan Pichai)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 12:18:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 May 2011 23:16, Saju M <sajuptpm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I think 25k is too high !!!
>
> Then do not attend;
Learn on your own and start a batch
at a lower price point
-- 
Asokan Pichai
*-------------------*
We will find a way. Or, make one. (Hannibal)

From vivek at vivekdurai.com  Sat May 14 17:43:41 2011
From: vivek at vivekdurai.com (vivek durai)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:13:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
	<20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
	<87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>

I've been examining the Pyramid docs recently. Stuff that put me off include
the zope elements...which somehow never seemed pythonic enough. I've been
working on django apps for a couple of years now and still find it lacking
in a number of features (lately the formwizard contrib app has been giving
me a lot of grief...and earlier it was row-level permissions)...which is why
the interest in Pyramid now...

Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much
appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard - svn
version).

Regards,

Vivek



On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani <
gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:

> You need to be careful enough to choose between Django vs Pylons/Pyramid
>
> Django has larger community than Pyramid has now and you are likely to find
> many examples, tutorials, reusable apps and hacks in Django than Pyramid.
> Until or unless you know that Django's default ORM or its template are not
> suite your need, Django would be ideal choice for average web developer.
>
> I personally prefer Pyramid..
>
> Regards,
>
> Gopalakrishnan Subramani
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> writes:
> >
> > > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > >> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache.
> > >
> > > I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using
> > > mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining
> > > the project would be using mod_python.
> >
> > I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just
> > picked it up because it was available and simple to use.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > > Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using
> > > mod_python.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would
> > however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its
> > deprecated status.
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > --
> >        "Life and death are seldom logical."
> >        "But attaining a desired goal always is."
> >                -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From gora at mimirtech.com  Sat May 14 18:43:11 2011
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:13:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
	<20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
	<87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikEmgGWgW8PeMnC9RvKTbV-c=Vs8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:13 PM, vivek durai <vivek at vivekdurai.com> wrote:
[...]
> Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much
> appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard - svn
> version).
[...]

Haven't used pyramid, but what issues are you facing with
Django form wizard?

Regards,
Gora

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Sat May 14 18:47:11 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:17:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikEmgGWgW8PeMnC9RvKTbV-c=Vs8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
	<20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
	<87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikEmgGWgW8PeMnC9RvKTbV-c=Vs8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=M65kcmTrRoR88XohdxowxOsf0bQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Gora Mohanty <gora at mimirtech.com> wrote:

> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:13 PM, vivek durai <vivek at vivekdurai.com> wrote:
> [...]
> > Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much
> > appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard -
> svn
> > version).
> [...]
>
> Haven't used pyramid, but what issues are you facing with
> Django form wizard?


I thought most of it got fixed

>
> Regards,
> Gora
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Ramdas S
+91 9342 583 065

From nagappan at gmail.com  Sat May 14 20:59:02 2011
From: nagappan at gmail.com (Nagappan Alagappan)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:59:02 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikpw2Wr0M_5O6s+HnqoTjG_ywVE2Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 23:16 +0530, Saju M wrote:
> > I think 25k is too high !!!
>
> it is low - less than the first month's salary.
>

I feel 25K is pretty less for the knowledge depth Kenneth have, also even if
you pay in any computer centers the same, you won't get out with the info
you will get from Kenneth. If corporates invite someone for such training,
they have to pay atleast > 200K

Thanks
Nagappan

> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Linux Desktop (GUI Application) Testing Project -
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org
http://nagappanal.blogspot.com

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Sat May 14 21:03:45 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:33:45 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>

> hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days  on
python/django
> it is free of cost
> also get free stuff of real working interface with programming
> also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi


On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Asokan Pichai <pasokan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 May 2011 23:16, Saju M <sajuptpm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I think 25k is too high !!!
> >
> > Then do not attend;
> Learn on your own and start a batch
> at a lower price point
> --
> Asokan Pichai
> *-------------------*
> We will find a way. Or, make one. (Hannibal)
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Sat May 14 22:17:23 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 01:47:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com>wrote:

> > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days  on
> python/django
> > it is free of cost
> > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming
> > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi


Are you serious about zero cost  ? , i feel why do without cost  when you
can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering such
training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the
middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like to
see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not
mind.

having said that , still if you want to go solo/free  , all the best , let
us know the dates , time and place .

-Satya
fossevents.in

From pradeep at btbytes.com  Sun May 15 03:16:34 2011
From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:16:34 -0400
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTi=2thVta3YAckxXfWFmpB8YbH=O1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost>
	<BANLkTimb-CBXszTBi1H_1jGmQJueC-9WUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost>
	<20110505130229.GA7524@kevin>
	<87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTikx+hCeMMOeP_YCmZQ_gatF9quvcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimKHRqnBRchTzouowdEG=6PLrkHKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=A1mA_MM8SLrkaceE6rx_0wyhwSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM, vivek durai <vivek at vivekdurai.com> wrote:
> I've been examining the Pyramid docs recently. Stuff that put me off include
> the zope elements...

What zope elements?  Just because it depends on ONE library called
zope.interface, does not make it Zope.

Zope.interface is a way of providing documented public API for the components
and nothing more. BTW, your code does not need to even invoke it.

Reading some pyramid tutorial and documentation will help you in getting ridding
of the Zope FUD.

-Pradeep

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Sun May 15 06:12:31 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:42:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>

sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place
announced soon


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days  on
> > python/django
> > > it is free of cost
> > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming
> > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi
>
>
> Are you serious about zero cost  ? , i feel why do without cost  when you
> can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering such
> training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the
> middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like to
> see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not
> mind.
>
> having said that , still if you want to go solo/free  , all the best , let
> us know the dates , time and place .
>
> -Satya
> fossevents.in
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com  Sun May 15 11:30:19 2011
From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:00:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>

hi
I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to all
please contact
bye
srini

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

> sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place
> announced soon
>
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days  on
> > > python/django
> > > > it is free of cost
> > > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming
> > > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi
> >
> >
> > Are you serious about zero cost  ? , i feel why do without cost  when you
> > can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering
> such
> > training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the
> > middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like
> to
> > see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not
> > mind.
> >
> > having said that , still if you want to go solo/free  , all the best ,
> let
> > us know the dates , time and place .
> >
> > -Satya
> > fossevents.in
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Sun May 15 13:11:51 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:41:51 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>

> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as
open-source
> it sounds good !

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <srinivasaenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi
> I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to all
> please contact
> bye
> srini
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place
> > announced soon
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days  on
> > > > python/django
> > > > > it is free of cost
> > > > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming
> > > > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you serious about zero cost  ? , i feel why do without cost  when
> you
> > > can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering
> > such
> > > training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in
> the
> > > middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like
> > to
> > > see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not
> > > mind.
> > >
> > > having said that , still if you want to go solo/free  , all the best ,
> > let
> > > us know the dates , time and place .
> > >
> > > -Satya
> > > fossevents.in
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From aadisriram at gmail.com  Sun May 15 13:17:36 2011
From: aadisriram at gmail.com (AADITYA SRIRAM)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:47:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=KxSnOF-vtGeUCtMj-_RLft0mRgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=KxSnOF-vtGeUCtMj-_RLft0mRgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=QwgDf-gpi3qnCy-pRaz9n6XF-Cw@mail.gmail.com>

I'd love to learn :)

Sent from my android
On 15-May-2011 4:42 PM, "vikas ruhil" <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Sun May 15 13:27:02 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:57:02 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <srinivasaenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi
> I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to all
> please contact
>

Srinivas,

I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start giving
away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker will
never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs 100.

 It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute and
use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of your
source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a better
platform.

If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go
to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create a
few pythonistas there.

Ramdas

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Sun May 15 13:47:44 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:17:44 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>

@Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will
never see the value of your efforts? nothing  like that? someone really
interested in learning stuff  surely give value to instructor!
don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one
patent this one then really django is that much popular ?
so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm
matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate
India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so
need more guys do it ...........

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <srinivasaenergy at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > hi
> > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to
> all
> > please contact
> >
>
> Srinivas,
>
> I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start
> giving
> away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker
> will
> never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs 100.
>
>  It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute and
> use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of
> your
> source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a
> better
> platform.
>
> If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go
> to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create
> a
> few pythonistas there.
>
> Ramdas
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com  Sun May 15 18:25:29 2011
From: nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com (Nikunj Badjatya)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 21:55:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikhHv=jBb7B3vWuyeEJvB0ubiw3pA@mail.gmail.com>

   > hi
> I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to
all
> please contact
>

Dear Srinivas,
Please let us know the place, venue and timings.
Really appreciate your efforts.
Although most of us wouldnt mind paying a nominal fee. !
Nikunj




On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

> @Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will
> never see the value of your efforts? nothing  like that? someone really
> interested in learning stuff  surely give value to instructor!
> don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one
> patent this one then really django is that much popular ?
> so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm
> matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate
> India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so
> need more guys do it ...........
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <
> srinivasaenergy at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > hi
> > > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to
> > all
> > > please contact
> > >
> >
> > Srinivas,
> >
> > I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start
> > giving
> > away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker
> > will
> > never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs
> 100.
> >
> >  It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute
> and
> > use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of
> > your
> > source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a
> > better
> > platform.
> >
> > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves.
> Go
> > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two,
> create
> > a
> > few pythonistas there.
> >
> > Ramdas
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From santrajan at gmail.com  Sun May 15 18:31:22 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 22:01:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimexh-j0i+ERr=NhyazpKdo+ungXw@mail.gmail.com>

I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread
is degenerating into a level of immaturity.

>From my experience in software engg, in the last 30 years, I have learned
that it takes me at least 3 months (this is only an average figure), to
train someone, into start becoming productive in any given language.

This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3
months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be
FANTASTIC.

But in my last thirty years, I have not been able to see anyone who could do
that!

You can argue till the cows come home about 2 day seminars etc, but there,
everything depends on individual capacity and ability of that person to take
things from there.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

> @Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will
> never see the value of your efforts? nothing  like that? someone really
> interested in learning stuff  surely give value to instructor!
> don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one
> patent this one then really django is that much popular ?
> so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm
> matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate
> India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so
> need more guys do it ...........
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <
> srinivasaenergy at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > hi
> > > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to
> > all
> > > please contact
> > >
> >
> > Srinivas,
> >
> > I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start
> > giving
> > away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker
> > will
> > never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs
> 100.
> >
> >  It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute
> and
> > use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of
> > your
> > source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a
> > better
> > platform.
> >
> > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves.
> Go
> > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two,
> create
> > a
> > few pythonistas there.
> >
> > Ramdas
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From dialkforkaushik at gmail.com  Sun May 15 19:13:09 2011
From: dialkforkaushik at gmail.com (kaushik kalyanaraman)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:13:09 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimexh-j0i+ERr=NhyazpKdo+ungXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimexh-j0i+ERr=NhyazpKdo+ungXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=xYJyX6rCfFJ6yz0ybkk2m0YtrYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread
> is degenerating into a level of immaturity.
>
<snip>
> This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3
> months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be
> FANTASTIC.
I have never posted to this list before although I have been around
almost since its inception. I have had to make an exception to agree
with the above. Some of the posts in this thread suggest either
trolling or, pardon me, ignorant noobs.

IMHO, and with the caveat that I am not a software engineer, I
_believe_ that anything that is _gratis_ is not quite likely to work
well and will generally be of questionable quality; however, if it is
not, it shall almost certainly be an exception.

I have no idea who Kenneth is other than through his posts that I have
read in close to a dozen communities for nearly half a decade (some of
which I am no longer part of). Also, unfortunately, I have no
knowledge of Django and/or how it is used in software industry.
However, given my impression, if he is offering such a course, and if
I had a choice, I would rather shell out the 25 K. Again I am not well
informed but if as Kenneth claims (and not in jest) that a month's
(gross/net ?) pay is likely to be higher than the cost of his
offering, then it becomes even more prudent to go with him rather than
someone offering a freebie but is otherwise rather unversed.

-kk

-- 
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do
not know, that is true knowledge.

From pradeep at btbytes.com  Mon May 16 02:03:11 2011
From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:03:11 -0400
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=xYJyX6rCfFJ6yz0ybkk2m0YtrYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_spNsn92ivYinnESDUY3zV4ODpQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimexh-j0i+ERr=NhyazpKdo+ungXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=xYJyX6rCfFJ6yz0ybkk2m0YtrYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=_Q-RYPfKjaBgr9mqsXaq+qSrhvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM, kaushik kalyanaraman
<dialkforkaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread
>> is degenerating into a level of immaturity.
>>
> <snip>
>> This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3
>> months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be
>> FANTASTIC.
> I have never posted to this list before although I have been around
> almost since its inception. I have had to make an exception to agree
> with the above. Some of the posts in this thread suggest either
> trolling or, pardon me, ignorant noobs.
>
> IMHO, and with the caveat that I am not a software engineer, I
> _believe_ that anything that is _gratis_ is not quite likely to work
> well and will generally be of questionable quality; however, if it is
> not, it shall almost certainly be an exception.
>
> I have no idea who Kenneth is other than through his posts that I have
> read in close to a dozen communities for nearly half a decade (some of
> which I am no longer part of). Also, unfortunately, I have no
> knowledge of Django and/or how it is used in software industry.
> However, given my impression, if he is offering such a course, and if
> I had a choice, I would rather shell out the 25 K. Again I am not well
> informed but if as Kenneth claims (and not in jest) that a month's
> (gross/net ?) pay is likely to be higher than the cost of his
> offering, then it becomes even more prudent to go with him rather than
> someone offering a freebie but is otherwise rather unversed.

This is the best response in this whole thread.

Indians often wonder why Indians can't build product companies.
That is not going to happen till people are ready to pay for a product
(which this training is) if it brings value to them.

I would rather pay 25K to work with a person who has been an active
programmer and has managed teams of programmers than to a
training institute where the trainers are senior students who hardly have
any real life experience.

Information is getting cheaper everyday, relevant knowledge dearer, as
it should.

+PG

From vid at svaksha.com  Mon May 16 06:58:09 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:58:09 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:27, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
[.....]
> If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go
> to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create a
> few pythonistas there.

I am a little stunned after reading the above. Setting aside the 'free
vs non-free debate', are you implying that people who are not studying
in "engineering colleges or schools are a community that dont deserve
Django training" and/or are incapable of learning it? I am not quite
sure what exactly your point here is, but your last para above
definitely smacks of ageism** -- something very commonly practiced in
India but few will admit it openly. Free software reverses all
cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to
learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean
that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy
community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the
training hardly would fall in the community category that you
claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago
but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just
not funny.

** Fwiw, its not uncommon to see many Indian Universities and colleges
advertising admission cut-off requirements, say, "age limit 25 years
for Masters", etc... Essentially, that leaves people outside their
teens (or early twenties) who want to learn at the mercy of distance
education which has no value in the eyes of an employer. Its a catch22
situation.

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Mon May 16 08:18:24 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinVRHDoAF+T3C4GUK1un1JkgE=whw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:28 AM, ? ?????? ? <vid at svaksha.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:27, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> [.....]
> > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves.
> Go
> > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two,
> create a
> > few pythonistas there.
>
> I am a little stunned after reading the above. Setting aside the 'free
> vs non-free debate', are you implying that people who are not studying
> in "engineering colleges or schools are a community that dont deserve
> Django training" and/or are incapable of learning it? I am not quite
> sure what exactly your point here is, but your last para above
> definitely smacks of ageism** -- something very commonly practiced in
> India but few will admit it openly. Free software reverses all
> cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to
> learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean
> that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy
> community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the
> training hardly would fall in the community category that you
> claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago
> but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just
> not funny.
>
> ** Fwiw, its not uncommon to see many Indian Universities and colleges
> advertising admission cut-off requirements, say, "age limit 25 years
> for Masters", etc... Essentially, that leaves people outside their
> teens (or early twenties) who want to learn at the mercy of distance
> education which has no value in the eyes of an employer. Its a catch22
> situation.
>
>
I am sorry to say, but I guess you are reading too much into what I had
written, and using your vivid imagination to come with ideas which was never
implied.

The only point I wanted to drive to the gentleman who said he will offer
free training, that any* service offered freely* has* no value* in *our
society*. If someone needs *to do charit*y, then do it a community that
probably deserves, not to a bunch of software professionals, who has means
and ways of paying for it. I am of this firm opinion and from my own little
experience in the past. I suggested student community because an average
student needs to depend on scholarships or parent's income to learn
something more. If there are communities outside students, that deserves
please go ahead. I *never made an exclusive statement *of schools and
colleges.

Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging*
25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending
his personal
time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would take
1-3  months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has his
economics right!

It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort.  Kenneth  or anyone in
this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am not able
to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing this off
as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's *commercial
in square brackets* in the subject of the mail.

However if a few more experienced hands like Kenneth comes forward and
creates a few more Python developers it would help the community. This I am
very clear.

He is offering  a service, and he is expecting to be paid for it! It's no
different from a service offered by some one else or by you or me.

From vid at svaksha.com  Mon May 16 08:40:24 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 06:40:24 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinVRHDoAF+T3C4GUK1un1JkgE=whw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinVRHDoAF+T3C4GUK1un1JkgE=whw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinXXPvE=9XbRdrGJKvaEGcXDbu9MA@mail.gmail.com>

Too many contradictions and strawman arguments  in you mail, so here goes...

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:18, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sorry to say, but I guess you are reading too much into what I had
> written, and using your vivid imagination to come with ideas which was never
> implied.
>
> The only point I wanted to drive to the gentleman who said he will offer
> free training, that any* service offered freely* has* no value* in *our
> society*. If someone needs *to do charit*y, then do it a community that
> probably deserves, not to a bunch of software professionals, who has means
> and ways of paying for it. I am of this firm opinion and from my own little
> experience in the past. I suggested student community because an average
> student needs to depend on scholarships or parent's income to learn
> something more. If there are communities outside students, that deserves
> please go ahead. I *never made an exclusive statement *of schools and
> colleges.

From, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2011-May/006274.html,
"I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training
to all" -- so Mr Rao, was offering it to 'all' not a "bunch of
software professionals", which was your misinterpretation.


> Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging*
> 25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending
> his personal
> time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would take
> 1-3 ?months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has his
> economics right!
>
> It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort. ?Kenneth ?or anyone in
> this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am not able
> to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing this off
> as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's *commercial
> in square brackets* in the subject of the mail.
>
> However if a few more experienced hands like Kenneth comes forward and
> creates a few more Python developers it would help the community. This I am
> very clear.
>
> He is offering ?a service, and he is expecting to be paid for it! It's no
> different from a service offered by some one else or by you or me.

Strawman. The statement "community that deserves" was yours, not mine.
And, fwiw, I had "set aside the 'free vs non-free debate' (read, not
commented anything about it in my mail), so please read mails properly
before making so many strawman arguments which are so many that it
would end up wasting list members time, so do excuse me for
withdrawing from the pointlessness.

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From lawgon at gmail.com  Mon May 16 08:47:37 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:17:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinVRHDoAF+T3C4GUK1un1JkgE=whw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinVRHDoAF+T3C4GUK1un1JkgE=whw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305528457.1994.23.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 11:48 +0530, Ramdas S wrote:
> Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging*
> 25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending
> his personal
> time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would
> take
> 1-3  months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has
> his
> economics right!

Introductory offer
> 
> It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort.  Kenneth  or
> anyone in
> this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am
> not able
> to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing
> this off
> as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's
> *commercial
> in square brackets* in the subject of the mail. 

and to set the record straight, I have conducted innumerable workshops
in python/django (and a whole raft of other topics), usually free,
sometimes with accommodation and food provided, at other times even with
travel provided and at other times entirely at my own expense. And have
mentored very many people (totally free), and none of those people are
walking around bare footed. From all this I have learned three things:

1. Quality training is takes up a lot of time and effort - no one can
afford to do this free. 

2. Unfortunately in our country very few people appreciate things that
are free - and even fewer people really make much effort when doing
something for free. At the most they will put up a few slides they have
shown somewhere else, demo a few things and answer a few questions.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From ramdaz at gmail.com  Mon May 16 09:01:26 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:31:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Oursql
Message-ID: <BANLkTimapPTAYvy8VoZbHF_KvX7pgpLPog@mail.gmail.com>

Is there anyone in the group, any experience  to report on Oursql

1]http://packages.python.org/oursql/


We are considering using to mine and extract a lot of information from huge
complex MySQl database with a few hundred tables spanning several
relationships.

Someone recommended it on IRC, saying it's better than Mysql.db On the
hindsight it looks cool. Couldn't find any bad comments on the web site.
Seems not many have played with it.

 Nothing wrong with Mysqldb, but some crazy unicode errors keeps cropping up
once in a while. Oursql seems fine with it.

Looking for a second opinion. I am looking some reasons if any not to use
it., or some more strong recommendation so that we can take the plunge or
stick to Mysqldb.
-- 
Ramdas S
+91 9342 583 065

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 09:08:54 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:38:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=XArKsaE1_zG_4HtM0uz3uYCkSzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:28 AM, ? ?????? ? <vid at svaksha.com> wrote:

>  Free software reverses all
> cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to
> learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean
> that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy
> community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the
> training hardly would fall in the community category that you
> claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago
> but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just
> not funny.
>

Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a
computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the
population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think you
can reverse?

-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From vid at svaksha.com  Mon May 16 10:11:30 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:11:30 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=XArKsaE1_zG_4HtM0uz3uYCkSzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=XArKsaE1_zG_4HtM0uz3uYCkSzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=OSQdNSLTD6M+PU8o9B9EtmaN-qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 07:08, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a
> computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the
> population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think you
> can reverse?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#Reasoning

-- 
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 13:10:13 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:40:13 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=OSQdNSLTD6M+PU8o9B9EtmaN-qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikm-8Ee=sdgQw11uBi8L4PiB19r0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyoZFvW_tDy3+qea8kKk2FjXCx9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=XArKsaE1_zG_4HtM0uz3uYCkSzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OSQdNSLTD6M+PU8o9B9EtmaN-qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikuXgPtCQqRrpTXKuak9oyMqjO3sw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 1:41 PM, ? ?????? ? <vid at svaksha.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 07:08, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a
> > computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the
> > population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think
> you
> > can reverse?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#Reasoning
>
>
Great "All Weather Argument", doesn't answer the question though.

http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From abpillai at gmail.com  Mon May 16 13:44:30 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:14:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao <srinivasaenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi
> I have 5 years exp using Python/Django  i want to give free training to all
> please contact
> bye
> srini
>
>
The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing
to pay me to teach me Django ?



-- 
--Anand

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 13:49:03 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:19:03 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=6+trf5xDcXazo9pZi06Q8MsxzsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai <
abpillai at gmail.com> wrote:

> The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing
> to pay me to teach me Django ?
>
>
hehehe. You could start from here!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_(film)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_(film)>
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Mon May 16 14:55:09 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:25:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin9-FyZytPxogz-vnGjYNW2OVXRQw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing
> to pay me to teach me Django ?
>

i want to put my hat in the circle and pay for getting services , i am ok
with Kenneth and you  , will talk about the project details offline.

-Satya

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Mon May 16 15:29:21 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:59:21 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin9-FyZytPxogz-vnGjYNW2OVXRQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9-FyZytPxogz-vnGjYNW2OVXRQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinw=Ft1qRT9AaEEOBt_wV_6iz9A+g@mail.gmail.com>

@? ?????? ?  he is saying the truth in above thread .debate of free vs non
free going in a wrong path. so don't forget what is aim ?
> free django training is open , but if some want pay donation is welcomed!
>. DATE:19/6/2011 , venue :USO house,New Delhi
> for outsider we may launch till online cloud interface to learn

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:25 PM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com>wrote:

> >
> > The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is
> willing
> > to pay me to teach me Django ?
> >
>
> i want to put my hat in the circle and pay for getting services , i am ok
> with Kenneth and you  , will talk about the project details offline.
>
> -Satya
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Mon May 16 15:40:33 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:10:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinw=Ft1qRT9AaEEOBt_wV_6iz9A+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimMPLQ-oWO_6wMHf46o9FfY1ruWRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9-FyZytPxogz-vnGjYNW2OVXRQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw=Ft1qRT9AaEEOBt_wV_6iz9A+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinEB-Fjey_DL1UAs6Bid-N4MwrXBg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > free django training is open , but if some want pay donation is welcomed!
> >. DATE:19/6/2011 , venue :USO house,New Delhi
> > for outsider we may launch till online cloud interface to learn
>

Details please course contents , contact hours etc.. appreciated .

-Satya

From noufal at gmail.com  Mon May 16 15:59:26 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:29:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com> (vikas
	ruhil's message of "Sun, 15 May 2011 16:41:51 +0530")
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> writes:

>> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as
> open-source > it sounds good !

[...]

Open source is not necessarily free of cost. 


-- 
Behind every great man, there is a woman -- urging him on.
		-- Harry Mudd, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 16:18:32 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:48:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>

Do not reply to trolls!

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as
> > open-source > it sounds good !
>
> [...]
>
> Open source is not necessarily free of cost.
>
>
> --
> Behind every great man, there is a woman -- urging him on.
>                -- Harry Mudd, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Mon May 16 16:24:56 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:54:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=eCWZ1n-YCA7Zs0UdWsnmNEB9Bww@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as
> > open-source > it sounds good !
>
> [...]
>
> Open source is not necessarily free of cost.
>

+1 , i think we have lost the whole conversation again just because of the
word *free* , as i am still waiting from Vikas and others on the contents
and contact hour details , my hunch is they are  most probably talking about
one session of may be half or one day , which we all do .

so the confusion i think started by mixing what Kenneth has to offer which
is much more rigrous and long term programme and which comes with a
Job guarantee , which i think takes lots of guts to put ones reputation at
stake ,again i think he must have thought through  all of this.

my stand as of now is

i am ready to pay for long term programmes.
i am ok with conducting or attending half a day or one day sessions for
advocacy free or paid .


-Satya
fossevents.in

From satyaakam at gmail.com  Mon May 16 16:28:29 2011
From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:58:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do not reply to trolls!


my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see .....

-Satya

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 16:52:48 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:22:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>

I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in
them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately.
Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come
to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind was
instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I should
post it here.

Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there are
many people better than me.
Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.

Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject.

1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way to
go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to know
where they are headed.
2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is the
panacea for all "humanities Illness".

Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for Google.
Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google.
 Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the Open
Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus
Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more today).

If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San
Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either
1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google) (and
a small minority out of SF)
2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small
minority other wise.
3)And the rest of the  Open source Guru's are writing software in the hope
that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2).

So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please,
Please Enlighten me?



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From gora at mimirtech.com  Mon May 16 16:58:54 2011
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:28:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinWK376-+OFi8LUpe-dZU2ZPaNW3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in
> them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately.
> Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come
> to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind was
> instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I should
> post it here.
[...]

It seems that your rant derives from a complete mis-conception
of what "Free" and "Open" means in this context.

However, this is not the right place for such an argument. Please
take it elsewhere.

Regards,
Gora

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 17:01:18 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:31:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinWK376-+OFi8LUpe-dZU2ZPaNW3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinWK376-+OFi8LUpe-dZU2ZPaNW3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinHkd+d=qGC_1VmtmFs4w+d2avSyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your view and reply.

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Gora Mohanty <gora at mimirtech.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in
> > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately.
> > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers.
> Come
> > to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind
> was
> > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I
> should
> > post it here.
> [...]
>
> It seems that your rant derives from a complete mis-conception
> of what "Free" and "Open" means in this context.
>
> However, this is not the right place for such an argument. Please
> take it elsewhere.
>
> Regards,
> Gora
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com  Mon May 16 17:18:47 2011
From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:48:47 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinxb3zTjLmie6Dchvxt9q2jtsVwXA@mail.gmail.com>

> course outline is cs-201-python/django-summer-2011
1) Understanding django & install setup , basic usage
2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better)
3)   Google app engine
4)  Creating Facebook app  using GAE +django
5) Web server set up & usage
6) Database setup & usage
7)  ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates
 (for views) + Forms + Much more

suggestion welcomed if anything related django stuff ?. anything else to
add  or someone want to advise .
any mistakes please inform duly appreciated for that !

Resources & course-ware blog:-
http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com/2011/05/cs-201-pythondjango-summer-2011.html
thanks everyone for their valuable time on this thread , thanks for a nice
debate ,comments!

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Do not reply to trolls!
>
>
> my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see .....
>
> -Satya
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Mon May 16 19:42:30 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 23:12:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>

You missed
4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source
product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho)
5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you
popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37 Signals,
Thoughtbot)

Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that
earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it
viable? Yes it is.

What's the problem?

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in
> them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately.
> Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come
>  to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my mind
> was
> instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I
> should
> post it here.
>
> Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there are
> many people better than me.
> Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.
>
> Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject.
>
> 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way to
> go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to know
> where they are headed.
> 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is the
> panacea for all "humanities Illness".
>
> Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for
> Google.
> Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google.
>  Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the
> Open
> Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus
> Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more
> today).
>
> If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San
> Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either
> 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google)
> (and
> a small minority out of SF)
> 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small
> minority other wise.
> 3)And the rest of the  Open source Guru's are writing software in the hope
> that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2).
>
> So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please,
> Please Enlighten me?
>
>
>
> --
> http://about.me/santosh.rajan
>
> ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> exceptions?. *Oliver
> Wendell Holmes*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 20:21:14 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 23:51:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com>wrote:

> You missed
> 4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source
> product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho)
>

Great! so what percentage of the worldwide revenue of MySql, redhat, pentaho
etc etc you own? Next to Zilch!




> 5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you
> popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37 Signals,
> Thoughtbot)
>


 So again the same problem above?



> Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that
> earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it
> viable? Yes it is.
>

I agree. But what money of your so called business model is coming to India?
Nothing!



>
> What's the problem?
>

As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always remain
 a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the entire
software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software exports of
the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great
software nation.
Thank you again gentleman.





>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in
> > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately.
> > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers.
> Come
> >  to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my
> mind
> > was
> > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I
> > should
> > post it here.
> >
> > Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there
> are
> > many people better than me.
> > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.
> >
> > Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject.
> >
> > 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way
> to
> > go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to
> know
> > where they are headed.
> > 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is
> the
> > panacea for all "humanities Illness".
> >
> > Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for
> > Google.
> > Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google.
> >  Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the
> > Open
> > Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus
> > Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more
> > today).
> >
> > If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San
> > Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either
> > 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google)
> > (and
> > a small minority out of SF)
> > 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small
> > minority other wise.
> > 3)And the rest of the  Open source Guru's are writing software in the
> hope
> > that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2).
> >
> > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India?
> Please,
> > Please Enlighten me?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://about.me/santosh.rajan
> >
> > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> > exceptions?. *Oliver
> > Wendell Holmes*
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Mon May 16 21:11:14 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 00:41:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>


On 16-May-11, at 11:51 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
[snip]
> As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always  
> remain
> a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the  
> entire
> software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software  
> exports of
> the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great
> software nation.

I've heard all sorts of arguments against FOSS*, but the idea that it  
is a moral/nationalistic imperative to charge for software? This one  
is new. Kudos.

I assume you are walking the walk and paying google for that gmail  
account, so that nobody gets the idea that you support any business  
model that depends on giving away free services.

-Taj.

* Many of them are valid, but this one is not in their august company.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 21:29:29 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 00:59:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I've heard all sorts of arguments against FOSS*, but the idea that it is a
> moral/nationalistic imperative to charge for software? This one is new.
> Kudos.
>

I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I say
anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged? Don't put
words into my mouth just for your arguments sake.


>
> I assume you are walking the walk and paying google for that gmail account,
> so that nobody gets the idea that you support any business model that
> depends on giving away free services.
>

By the way I do pay Google for some of my accounts. This particular email is
free, but I pay for domain and web services. But that was only incidental. I
would love to continue using googles's free service and i do!

So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have no right
to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying  Google?
Don't be ridiculous. Carefully read the whole thread again and let us talk.


http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Mon May 16 21:42:17 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:12:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 12:59 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
[snip]
> I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I  
> say
> anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged?  
> Don't put
> words into my mouth just for your arguments sake.

I could certainly quote bits of your own posts back to you, but it's a  
waste of my time.

> So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have  
> no right
> to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying   
> Google?

Yes.

I understand your core point - first start making money, then talk  
about giving away the fruits of your time and effort when the basic  
needs are taken care of. You haven't framed it very coherently though,  
and you haven't really addressed the points others have made. There  
are plenty of people making a living off giving away software, and I  
think it's okay for Indians to aspire to it too.

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Mon May 16 22:02:04 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:32:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>

In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent" manner,
so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect to the
subject of this thread?

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:12 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:

>
> On 17-May-11, at 12:59 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
> [snip]
>
>  I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I say
>> anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged? Don't put
>> words into my mouth just for your arguments sake.
>>
>
> I could certainly quote bits of your own posts back to you, but it's a
> waste of my time.
>
>
>  So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have no
>> right
>> to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying  Google?
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> I understand your core point - first start making money, then talk about
> giving away the fruits of your time and effort when the basic needs are
> taken care of. You haven't framed it very coherently though, and you haven't
> really addressed the points others have made. There are plenty of people
> making a living off giving away software, and I think it's okay for Indians
> to aspire to it too.
>
> -Taj.
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From lorddaemon at gmail.com  Mon May 16 22:11:07 2011
From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:41:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimkUj64Pv5V0VW5m5Zb0t1AJNmJWw@mail.gmail.com>

> So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please,
Please Enlighten me?
I found your first mail rather offensive to begin with, and I find your
response even more so now that you've decided to get personal. Clearly you
consider yourself very l33t if you choose to address perfect strangers on a
mailing list in this manner so I bow to your superior judgement and derisive
tone.

I'm not going to continue this conversation beyond this except to point out
that I run a company that is making use of approach 5 in a manner that both
my accountants and I find quite satisfactory.

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Sidu Ponnappa <lorddaemon at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > You missed
> > 4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source
> > product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho)
> >
>
> Great! so what percentage of the worldwide revenue of MySql, redhat,
> pentaho
> etc etc you own? Next to Zilch!
>
>
>
>
> > 5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you
> > popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37
> Signals,
> > Thoughtbot)
> >
>
>
>  So again the same problem above?
>
>
>
> > Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that
> > earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it
> > viable? Yes it is.
> >
>
> I agree. But what money of your so called business model is coming to
> India?
> Nothing!
>
>
>
> >
> > What's the problem?
> >
>
> As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always remain
>  a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the entire
> software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software exports of
> the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great
> software nation.
> Thank you again gentleman.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated
> in
> > > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject
> separately.
> > > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers.
> > Come
> > >  to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my
> > mind
> > > was
> > > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I
> > > should
> > > post it here.
> > >
> > > Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there
> > are
> > > many people better than me.
> > > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.
> > >
> > > Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject.
> > >
> > > 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way
> > to
> > > go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to
> > know
> > > where they are headed.
> > > 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is
> > the
> > > panacea for all "humanities Illness".
> > >
> > > Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for
> > > Google.
> > > Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google.
> > >  Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the
> > > Open
> > > Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus
> > > Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more
> > > today).
> > >
> > > If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is
> San
> > > Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either
> > > 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google)
> > > (and
> > > a small minority out of SF)
> > > 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small
> > > minority other wise.
> > > 3)And the rest of the  Open source Guru's are writing software in the
> > hope
> > > that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2).
> > >
> > > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India?
> > Please,
> > > Please Enlighten me?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://about.me/santosh.rajan
> > >
> > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> > > exceptions?. *Oliver
> > > Wendell Holmes*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://about.me/santosh.rajan
>
> ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> exceptions?. *Oliver
> Wendell Holmes*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Mon May 16 22:29:09 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:59:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 1:32 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote:

> In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent"  
> manner,
> so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect  
> to the
> subject of this thread?

When you write something like this:

 > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India?  
Please,
 > Please Enlighten me?

I have a hard time winnowing sense out of that string of words, due to  
my limited reading and comprehension abilities. What does this have to  
do with open source people in San Francisco? I can only make broad  
assumptions about your intentions, especially when you later talk  
about the size of India's software market.

In light of the above, I (and others) would be grateful if you made an  
effort to clearly state your case.

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 02:52:28 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 06:22:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically.

"The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup
Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between San
Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project".

Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously!

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:

>
> On 17-May-11, at 1:32 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>
>  In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent" manner,
>> so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect to the
>> subject of this thread?
>>
>
> When you write something like this:
>
>
> > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India?
> Please,
> > Please Enlighten me?
>
> I have a hard time winnowing sense out of that string of words, due to my
> limited reading and comprehension abilities. What does this have to do with
> open source people in San Francisco? I can only make broad assumptions about
> your intentions, especially when you later talk about the size of India's
> software market.
>
> In light of the above, I (and others) would be grateful if you made an
> effort to clearly state your case.
>
>
> -Taj.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com  Tue May 17 03:21:46 2011
From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 06:51:46 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinxb3zTjLmie6Dchvxt9q2jtsVwXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinxb3zTjLmie6Dchvxt9q2jtsVwXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinYFByJ2szgh03CYhVQJBFXo+M8QQ@mail.gmail.com>

hi
Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to attend
I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i would
like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can save
money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some
special class to students .
especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for students
.
thanks &  regards
srinivasa

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:48 PM, vikas ruhil <vikasruhil06 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > course outline is cs-201-python/django-summer-2011
> 1) Understanding django & install setup , basic usage
> 2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better)
> 3)   Google app engine
> 4)  Creating Facebook app  using GAE +django
> 5) Web server set up & usage
> 6) Database setup & usage
> 7)  ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates
>  (for views) + Forms + Much more
>
> suggestion welcomed if anything related django stuff ?. anything else to
> add  or someone want to advise .
> any mistakes please inform duly appreciated for that !
>
> Resources & course-ware blog:-
>
> http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com/2011/05/cs-201-pythondjango-summer-2011.html
> thanks everyone for their valuable time on this thread , thanks for a nice
> debate ,comments!
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Do not reply to trolls!
> >
> >
> > my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see .....
> >
> > -Satya
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue May 17 03:49:11 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:19:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost>

On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 20:22 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote:
> Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.

this is obvious - I suggest you stick to things you are an expert on.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue May 17 03:53:22 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:23:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinYFByJ2szgh03CYhVQJBFXo+M8QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinxb3zTjLmie6Dchvxt9q2jtsVwXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFByJ2szgh03CYhVQJBFXo+M8QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 06:51 +0530, srinivasa rao wrote:
> Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to
> attend
> I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i
> would
> like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can
> save
> money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some
> special class to students .
> especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for
> students 

why the commercial tag on your mail? Please start a separate thread for
your efforts.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 03:54:49 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:24:49 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikwnaKWMrOqmQOydHDE66Do=JZ-TQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your great viewpoint Guru.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 20:22 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote:
> > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.
>
> this is obvious - I suggest you stick to things you are an expert on.
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From ramdaz at gmail.com  Tue May 17 04:10:55 2011
From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:40:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>

> Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically.
>
> "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup
> Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between San
> Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project".
>
> Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously!
>
>

Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when  you make such
generalisation, and spins new theories

You say Startup company or are you meaning a Startup company focused only on
open source. If you are generalising startups, it's completely ridiculous,
almost all successful Indian software companies were startups once upon a
time, and so are in all countries outside US.

So I presume you are saying open source companies/projects.

For many years US and North America used to be the biggest market, and the
American influence was definitely there. But things are changing.

As far as Open Source go. Here's my understanding. You can make money off
Free and Open Source software by merely using them, or helping others to use
them effectively, and then reducing their software acquisition/TCO costs.
You d not have to contribute code or have a project

80-90% of all business(money)  on FOSS comes through this basic principle

Companies such as IBM, HP (IBM, HP makes in excess of a few billion dollars
through this model) and thousands of systems integrators across the world,
including a very small outfit which I run fairly successfully uses this
model to make money month on month.

Some of us (who work or run such small outfits) may not be contributing code
or launching new projects and are not famous, but is making a living from
Free and Open Source software building a services model around it.

That's the beauty of an economy around FOSS.

Finally on the success quotient, I see more startups winding up than
succeeding in tech space. And this is irrespective whether their business
model is build around open source, or closed source or whatever.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 04:27:15 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:57:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Ramdas S <ramdaz at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically.
> >
> > "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup
> > Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between
> San
> > Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project".
> >
> > Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously!
> >
> >
>
> Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when  you make such
> generalisation, and spins new theories
>

Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you
understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again.


http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Tue May 17 04:45:36 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:15:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=wJ9Gbk6esrfj+4N7qmuP7ar9jaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when  you make such
> > generalisation, and spins new theories
> >
>
> Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you
> understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again.
>

@Santosh: you need some humility when you talk in forums to gather respect
for your views.
(i dont wanna sound like a Bigdaddy here, but you need to show some maturity
in your claims/theories).
Bangpypers has some of the best pythonistas in India and people are watching
you.
Most of your assertions do not have any valid logic behind it; FOSS/OSS has
helped many institutions a lot - you
may want to check out  lugc(chennai lug) where some of the volunteers have
helped many colleges
install Linux and impart trainings to sysadmins etc and made the community
stronger.

OSS doesnt mean you have to do a commit; i never did a commit in the Python
source code, but had looked
at many important pieces in the peephole optimization code, and understood
things. This was a turning point in
my career as i got into something totally different than what i do in my day
job. I learnt a lot and also taught some;
hanging around IRC is also a great way to help the community.

Btw, i liked your theory of inverse-square-rule ;)  but i dont subscribe to
it fully.

-V

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 04:55:57 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:25:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=wJ9Gbk6esrfj+4N7qmuP7ar9jaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=wJ9Gbk6esrfj+4N7qmuP7ar9jaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=8XN6Gpt213SioVu3-c5HXTX+fZw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble
effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian
software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what is
going on.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when  you make such
> > > generalisation, and spins new theories
> > >
> >
> > Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you
> > understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again.
> >
>
> @Santosh: you need some humility when you talk in forums to gather respect
> for your views.
> (i dont wanna sound like a Bigdaddy here, but you need to show some
> maturity
> in your claims/theories).
> Bangpypers has some of the best pythonistas in India and people are
> watching
> you.
> Most of your assertions do not have any valid logic behind it; FOSS/OSS has
> helped many institutions a lot - you
> may want to check out  lugc(chennai lug) where some of the volunteers have
> helped many colleges
> install Linux and impart trainings to sysadmins etc and made the community
> stronger.
>
> OSS doesnt mean you have to do a commit; i never did a commit in the Python
> source code, but had looked
> at many important pieces in the peephole optimization code, and understood
> things. This was a turning point in
> my career as i got into something totally different than what i do in my
> day
> job. I learnt a lot and also taught some;
> hanging around IRC is also a great way to help the community.
>
> Btw, i liked your theory of inverse-square-rule ;)  but i dont subscribe to
> it fully.
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Tue May 17 04:59:34 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:29:34 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=8XN6Gpt213SioVu3-c5HXTX+fZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=wJ9Gbk6esrfj+4N7qmuP7ar9jaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8XN6Gpt213SioVu3-c5HXTX+fZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinD7qvsv73V2y9AkDgzwK8GKyqRJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble
> effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian
> software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what is
> going on.
>
>
You are holding 'something' and claim that its a mirror :)

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 05:12:36 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:42:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinD7qvsv73V2y9AkDgzwK8GKyqRJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinqM4mVZPSXMyjzEAb-FGh1n3YxZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim0C5BG6y5YHcsyAhE2SHyZO2usoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=wJ9Gbk6esrfj+4N7qmuP7ar9jaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8XN6Gpt213SioVu3-c5HXTX+fZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinD7qvsv73V2y9AkDgzwK8GKyqRJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimu1=LEJP7vVPK6Q8rbRQbywpMxhQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble
> > effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian
> > software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what
> is
> > going on.
> >
> >
> You are holding 'something' and claim that its a mirror :)
>

hehehe. Atleast I am trying hard.


http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From jace at pobox.com  Tue May 17 06:27:02 2011
From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:57:02 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com>

On 02-May-2011, at 12:35 PM, Baiju M wrote:

> Flask has one OpenID extension:
> http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/

+1 for the Flask-OpenID plugin. I just used it and it works like a charm.

You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies.

Kiran

From jace at pobox.com  Tue May 17 06:40:36 2011
From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:10:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <D466C8F5-D5A1-4755-812F-30939B3A0184@pobox.com>

On 05-May-2011, at 5:26 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:

> Flask - Young and lightweight. Flexible with components (you can mix and
> match parts). Very well documented, good community.
> 
> There's a bunch of offshoots of Zope (which was one of the earliest
> successfuly Python projects) like Grok, web2py etc. Haven't used any of
> them. 
> 
> I don't know anything about Pyramid and Pylons.

I've used Pyramid in its earlier incarnation as Repoze.BFG and liked it very much, but that was before Flask arrived on the scene. Now I use Flask for everything.

I have a major concern with Flask and SQLAlchemy that makes it hard to recommend them to others -- they mix up configuration with code.

Take, for example, the Flask-OAuth extension as documented here: http://packages.python.org/Flask-OAuth/

The documentation outlines Twitter integration. If you look at the sequence of the code, the OAuth handler must be provided a consumer_key and consumer_secret -- pieces of configuration -- before the handler code is written. Configuration has to be loaded while the module is being imported, not afterwards as a separate configure action.

SQLAlchemy declarative mode requires a Base metadata object to be shared by all models. This means you can't import models from two different sources. SQLAlchemy has a mixin syntax to get around this, but this is cumbersome.

This makes it really hard to reuse code.

Kiran


From noufal at gmail.com  Tue May 17 07:49:15 2011
From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:19:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>

You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software.
Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a
healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful.

-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 07:53:17 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:23:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>

Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything???

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:

> You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software.
> Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a
> healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful.
>
> --
> ~noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From benignbala at gmail.com  Tue May 17 07:56:06 2011
From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:26:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything???
>

      This is from your disclaimer:

Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.

and that's what Noufal said. Thanks

-- 
Thank you
Balachandran Sivakumar

Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.

Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 07:59:22 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:29:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>

And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!???

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar <
benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything???
> >
>
>       This is from your disclaimer:
>
> Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid.
>
> and that's what Noufal said. Thanks
>
> --
> Thank you
> Balachandran Sivakumar
>
> Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
>
> Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
> Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From benignbala at gmail.com  Tue May 17 08:04:25 2011
From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:34:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinEmjn1R-VN0-6p3JGp6NiuMw2GVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!???
>

        Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul
language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without
any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e.
your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind
you of your own statement. Thanks


-- 
Thank you
Balachandran Sivakumar

Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.

Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/

From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Tue May 17 08:08:48 2011
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:38:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
In-Reply-To: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com>
References: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinUk_6umarVGa-+O+nzdrudtb86qA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda <jace at pobox.com> wrote:
> On 02-May-2011, at 12:35 PM, Baiju M wrote:
>
>> Flask has one OpenID extension:
>> http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/
>
> +1 for the Flask-OpenID plugin. I just used it and it works like a charm.
>
> You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies.

What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ?

Regards,
Baiju M

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 08:11:21 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:41:21 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinEmjn1R-VN0-6p3JGp6NiuMw2GVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinEmjn1R-VN0-6p3JGp6NiuMw2GVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik2Tauh2yS4tRZ4ZCsCj68NLQgqAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting?

There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see that
you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar <
benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!???
> >
>
>         Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul
> language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without
> any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e.
> your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind
> you of your own statement. Thanks
>
>
> --
> Thank you
> Balachandran Sivakumar
>
> Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
>
> Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
> Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Tue May 17 08:47:42 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:17:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik2Tauh2yS4tRZ4ZCsCj68NLQgqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinEmjn1R-VN0-6p3JGp6NiuMw2GVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik2Tauh2yS4tRZ4ZCsCj68NLQgqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikGcSZyXDTsjY35rd5hfRLtzFqjjw@mail.gmail.com>

Intention of open source/free software is to save the cost, not to generate
revenue. You can save the cost by using it out-of-box software or you can
customize it to your need so that you will not produce the complete clone of
it.

My strong point is that "Generating money is left to a business/individual".


People need money to survive.. No one offer free money/fuel/electricity/food
etc. The open source developer passionate about doing the things which they
are interested. Its like someone teaching to poor students or illiterates on
week-end or end of the day after busy work for free of cost.

No one pays for Django/Rails as a web framework, they are still open source
& free. No one ask money for doing a interesting plug-in or library for
these frameworks. When business wants to create a web site using these
framework, business pays for that. It is called consulting or out-sourcing
that is what Ponnappa has mentioned.

Open source is not a market.. It is a choice. You choose it or ignore it
with your own wisdom.

I would happy to invest in Visual Studio for 1500 USD than programming in
SharpDevelop. I would very happy to use SVN/Mercurial free than buying a TFS
stack for 50000 USD. I feel more productive with my customized emacs than
using TextMate and investing on Mac's.

So coming back to your observation, you missed one more point.

There are matured business/individual who can decide when to go for open
source/closed-commercial tools by choice. I least bothered about 'idiot' or
'ignorant' you have mentioned.. I would advise them to learn first than
discussing in this forum..

PS:

OP should calm down and mind his words!!

Regards,

Gopalakrishnan Subramani




On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting?
>
> There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see that
> you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul.
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar <
> benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!???
> > >
> >
> >         Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul
> > language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without
> > any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e.
> > your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind
> > you of your own statement. Thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thank you
> > Balachandran Sivakumar
> >
> > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
> >
> > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
> > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://about.me/santosh.rajan
>
> ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> exceptions?. *Oliver
> Wendell Holmes*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 08:59:37 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:29:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikGcSZyXDTsjY35rd5hfRLtzFqjjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimk7bCFn4xNnBNcfPBhbnOKv_PE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=-MbdXSG2rsFQXO9Y2ACM9FfzUpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinEmjn1R-VN0-6p3JGp6NiuMw2GVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik2Tauh2yS4tRZ4ZCsCj68NLQgqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikGcSZyXDTsjY35rd5hfRLtzFqjjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=TSzujKgutkN_echvLxygx2Q=tqg@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed! Thanks!

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani <
gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Intention of open source/free software is to save the cost, not to generate
> revenue. You can save the cost by using it out-of-box software or you can
> customize it to your need so that you will not produce the complete clone
> of
> it.
>
> My strong point is that "Generating money is left to a
> business/individual".
>
>
> People need money to survive.. No one offer free
> money/fuel/electricity/food
> etc. The open source developer passionate about doing the things which they
> are interested. Its like someone teaching to poor students or illiterates
> on
> week-end or end of the day after busy work for free of cost.
>
> No one pays for Django/Rails as a web framework, they are still open source
> & free. No one ask money for doing a interesting plug-in or library for
> these frameworks. When business wants to create a web site using these
> framework, business pays for that. It is called consulting or out-sourcing
> that is what Ponnappa has mentioned.
>
> Open source is not a market.. It is a choice. You choose it or ignore it
> with your own wisdom.
>
> I would happy to invest in Visual Studio for 1500 USD than programming in
> SharpDevelop. I would very happy to use SVN/Mercurial free than buying a
> TFS
> stack for 50000 USD. I feel more productive with my customized emacs than
> using TextMate and investing on Mac's.
>
> So coming back to your observation, you missed one more point.
>
> There are matured business/individual who can decide when to go for open
> source/closed-commercial tools by choice. I least bothered about 'idiot' or
> 'ignorant' you have mentioned.. I would advise them to learn first than
> discussing in this forum..
>
> PS:
>
> OP should calm down and mind his words!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Gopalakrishnan Subramani
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting?
> >
> > There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see
> that
> > you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul.
> >
> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar <
> > benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!???
> > > >
> > >
> > >         Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul
> > > language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without
> > > any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e.
> > > your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind
> > > you of your own statement. Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thank you
> > > Balachandran Sivakumar
> > >
> > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
> > >
> > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
> > > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://about.me/santosh.rajan
> >
> > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> > exceptions?. *Oliver
> > Wendell Holmes*
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com  Tue May 17 09:13:40 2011
From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:43:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] python/django training
In-Reply-To: <1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost>
References: <BANLkTinjz-OVfKtRxFUS2aMmNmNdZwSXQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiku-qkARbMuK-EGS9jT3Ls180=HXg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+-c6bqna+Uwp+hrz1Ja50Z=TzeQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-02+655t=e-eXbyw=Ahqa5FAyTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4Z77NxHoYi9YJZv8RaVi4pkn2xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimvJMiS8bQgxxSACrpcR5ScyGeyNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfPXk5_sSC=NMZY-1-OFH9CZ8T8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
	<BANLkTim-UrSb2o0eqmTADaUEj_SCn=vJzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiko53ocnPjaXW3HNwUBRrDur0aEkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinxb3zTjLmie6Dchvxt9q2jtsVwXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFByJ2szgh03CYhVQJBFXo+M8QQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikk9xtpG_ovMPQoR0JcuL1m3aMtaw@mail.gmail.com>

hi
sorry i had not edited that tag please updated it
thanks
srinivasa

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 06:51 +0530, srinivasa rao wrote:
> > Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to
> > attend
> > I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i
> > would
> > like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can
> > save
> > money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some
> > special class to students .
> > especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for
> > students
>
> why the commercial tag on your mail? Please start a separate thread for
> your efforts.
> --
> regards
> Kenneth Gonsalves
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From jace at pobox.com  Tue May 17 12:24:12 2011
From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:54:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinUk_6umarVGa-+O+nzdrudtb86qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com>
	<BANLkTinUk_6umarVGa-+O+nzdrudtb86qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com>

On 17-May-2011, at 11:38 AM, Baiju M wrote:

>> You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies.
> 
> What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ?

Nothing. It just means that the code won't run automatically in Pyramid.

Kiran

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Tue May 17 13:02:38 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:32:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id
In-Reply-To: <86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com>
References: <BANLkTik-OjbWwjwyqMJsiX+kzwyy-2v2Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimoCgumpVmbH84p6pGa=ie8EkPL1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com>
	<BANLkTinUk_6umarVGa-+O+nzdrudtb86qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=5AUyu5OXS44bCYkK9fNCsNfvnBw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what you mean by automatic..

The thread local helps to have global variables per thread so that it
preserves the changes made in one thread should not affect another global
variable in another thread..

In Pylons, request & context (may be many other stuffs) are treated as a
global variables, they can be accessed from anywhere just by importing
them..



On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda <jace at pobox.com> wrote:

> On 17-May-2011, at 11:38 AM, Baiju M wrote:
>
> >> You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily
> dependent on thread-local proxies.
> >
> > What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ?
>
> Nothing. It just means that the code won't run automatically in Pyramid.
>
> Kiran
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From steve at lonetwin.net  Tue May 17 11:14:09 2011
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:44:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net>

On 05/16/2011 08:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
> [...snip...]
> So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please,
> Please Enlighten me?
>
>

/me thinks somebody just discovered a document online describing the art of 
trolling and now is aspiring to master it. It is fairly obvious given the first 
post and the subsequent responses.

cheers,
- steve



-- 
random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/
what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 13:17:07 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:47:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimjLZO+Cq4hDSNjjggDhLacKaAm5A@mail.gmail.com>

Yes Indeed, you are right.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:44 PM, steve <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:

> On 05/16/2011 08:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>
>> [...snip...]
>>
>> So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please,
>> Please Enlighten me?
>>
>>
>>
> /me thinks somebody just discovered a document online describing the art of
> trolling and now is aspiring to master it. It is fairly obvious given the
> first post and the subsequent responses.
>
> cheers,
> - steve
>
>
>
> --
> random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/
> what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue May 17 13:16:58 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:46:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 6:22 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote:

> Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically.
>
> "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or  
> Startup
> Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance  
> between San
> Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project".

Okay, let's assume this to be true. Now we need to determine the  
causality. What are the possible reasons? Here are some:

1. A person in India will fail at trying to create a business around  
open source, but is more likely to succeed at precisely the same  
endeavour, if they move to the Valley. It is the environment that  
counts, not the person.

2. People outside the Valley are incapable of creating/running that  
kind of business, because they don't know how to do it right. Moving  
to the Valley might increase their chances, since they will have  
better access to people who can teach or inspire them.

3. People who are already in the Valley are inherently superior, and  
us little people in India are wasting our time trying to emulate them.

These are three possible hypotheses. What are yours?

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 14:05:26 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:35:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, great argument, but I have some riders. Atleast, finally, I think we
are on the same page.

First of all, let us get one thing out of the way. Success in
software/hardware,  no matter where you are, entirely depends on on how
passionate you are about it. We can't quantify a person's passion for some
thing. Apple's success, is Steve Job's passion for whatever he was creating.

Having got that out of the way, let us try to answer some of your questions.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:
>
>
> 1. A person in India will fail at trying to create a business around open
> source, but is more likely to succeed at precisely the same endeavour, if
> they move to the Valley. It is the environment that counts, not the person.
>

Right! The environment counts a lot. Not the person. If you are based in
India, you are already starting to bat with 3 wickets down viz a viz San
Francisco, (If I can humbly give a cricket anology).


>
> 2. People outside the Valley are incapable of creating/running that kind of
> business, because they don't know how to do it right. Moving to the Valley
> might increase their chances, since they will have better access to people
> who can teach or inspire them.
>


Wrong and Right!. People outside the valley are definitely capable of
creating/running business, but they have a great disadvantage. Their
competitors based in the valley, have a competitive edge/eco system,that the
poor great guys outside the valley can't match.


>
> 3. People who are already in the Valley are inherently superior, and us
> little people in India are wasting our time trying to emulate them.
>

Ha ha!!! well well!!, I can't answer this question! But let me tell you a
fact I know. Sunder Pichai, and Vic Gondotra are Great Indians who work in
the Valley for Google.


>
> These are three possible hypotheses. What are yours?


Forget about your three possible hypothesis . I hope I have answered your
questions above!

>
>
-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue May 17 14:43:51 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:13:51 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 5:35 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
[snip]
> First of all, let us get one thing out of the way. Success in
> software/hardware,  no matter where you are, entirely depends on on  
> how
> passionate you are about it. We can't quantify a person's passion  
> for some
> thing. Apple's success, is Steve Job's passion for whatever he was  
> creating.
>

Fair enough.

> Having got that out of the way, let us try to answer some of your  
> questions.
>

They weren't really questions. You've outlined a correlation and now I  
am asking you to provide the causation.

> Right! The environment counts a lot. Not the person. If you are  
> based in
> India, you are already starting to bat with 3 wickets down viz a viz  
> San
> Francisco, (If I can humbly give a cricket anology).
>

This is true no matter what sort of technology business you start.  
What is different about business models that are FOSS-driven?

> Wrong and Right!. People outside the valley are definitely capable of
> creating/running business, but they have a great disadvantage. Their
> competitors based in the valley, have a competitive edge/eco  
> system,that the
> poor great guys outside the valley can't match.

I agree. So what is the solution, other than moving to the Valley?

> Forget about your three possible hypothesis . I hope I have answered  
> your
> questions above!

I think you've misunderstood. I'm still not clear on the following:

1. We've established that tech startups are at a disadvantage when  
based outside SV. Why is this so? Specifically, what is different  
about FOSS-model startups?

2. Given that we are not all moving to California, what are our  
options? I assume you are recommending against a FOSS-model startup.  
What sort of business models do you recommend instead? Why?

3. At least one person on this thread has pointed out that his Indian  
company is making a profit while working on FOSS. I know of a few  
others. Do you not recommend that others attempt to follow their  
example? Why?

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 16:42:55 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:12:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>

great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or pose is
right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below?

1. We've established that tech startups are at a disadvantage when based
> outside SV. Why is this so? Specifically, what is different about FOSS-model
> startups?
>
> 2. Given that we are not all moving to California, what are our options? I
> assume you are recommending against a FOSS-model startup. What sort of
> business models do you recommend instead? Why?
>
> 3. At least one person on this thread has pointed out that his Indian
> company is making a profit while working on FOSS. I know of a few others. Do
> you not recommend that others attempt to follow their example? Why?
>
>
>
-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue May 17 16:53:28 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:23:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 8:12 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:

> great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or  
> pose is
> right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below?

Huh? You started this thread, with the intention of modifying the  
behaviour of "young immature idiots" and "intellectual ignoranti".  
You've got us listening. State your case. What should we be doing  
instead?

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Tue May 17 17:02:12 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:32:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>

You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall admit
defeat and rest my case!

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:

>
> On 17-May-11, at 8:12 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>
>  great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or pose
>> is
>> right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below?
>>
>
> Huh? You started this thread, with the intention of modifying the behaviour
> of "young immature idiots" and "intellectual ignoranti". You've got us
> listening. State your case. What should we be doing instead?
>
>
> -Taj.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue May 17 17:04:14 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:34:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>


On 17-May-11, at 8:32 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:

> You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall  
> admit
> defeat and rest my case!

Same. And I apologize to all for my part in this trainwreck.

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Wed May 18 04:40:18 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:10:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>

As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks
in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for
all students of computer science, all over the world. Attleast they need to
now  there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:

>
> On 17-May-11, at 8:32 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>
>  You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall admit
>> defeat and rest my case!
>>
>
> Same. And I apologize to all for my part in this trainwreck.
>
>
> -Taj.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From lawgon at gmail.com  Wed May 18 08:11:07 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:41:07 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305699067.1994.93.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 17:35 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote:
> Hey, great argument, but I have some riders. Atleast, finally, I think
> we
> are on the same page. 

did you not notice that he was pulling your leg?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From abpillai at gmail.com  Wed May 18 09:33:50 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:03:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>

Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what
I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do.

1. Go to http://code.activestate.com/recipes
2. Think up a problem I like to solve on the day and write it up in Python
3. Submit as a Python recipe.

Of course you can do it in Perl or PHP, but Python rulez there.

Around 5 recipes of the total 35 I submitted with this thinking have been
actively used and some of them were forked off by other "Open source"
folks to projects of their own - well at least one (pyjavaproperties).

So, next time you bash open source in general, give me a call and
I could advise you on the "fringe" benefits open source gives you
which I dont think you are truly aware.

--Anand

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks
> in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for
> all students of computer science, all over the world. Attleast they need to
> now  there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world.
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
--Anand

From abpillai at gmail.com  Wed May 18 11:58:04 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:28:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=BpdgJ3K+fUxpOj92RfMz6XF3JWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks
> in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for
> all students of computer science, all over the world.


 Aiming rather too high , aren't we ?


> Attleast they need to
> now  there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world.
>
>

-- 
--Anand

From steve at lonetwin.net  Wed May 18 14:27:25 2011
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 17:57:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>

Hi Anand,

On 05/18/2011 01:03 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote:
> Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what
> I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do.
>

Don't feed the troll. I remarked at the fact that this person was deliberately 
trolling in another reply in this thread. Take a look at the URL in his sig and 
then see the pattern of his mails. Someone who lists open source software on his 
homepage (Apache License, even!) and then comes here to rant about the 'myth' of 
free software is obviously trolling (even if he sucks at doing that properly!)

cheers,
- steve

-- 
random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/
what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Wed May 18 14:31:42 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:01:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
Message-ID: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>

Hi all,

I've recently discovered the uWSGI project - http://projects.unbit.it/uwsgi/ 
  and am hoping to hear from any of you who have had the chance to use  
it in production. Specifically:

1. Is nginx+uwsgi easier to use and manage than apache and mod_wsgi?
2. Is there a measurable difference in memory use and performance, in  
practical terms?
3. Did you notice any stability issues under load?

I realize that I'm fishing here, but I'd really appreciate some insight.

-Taj.

From sree at mahiti.org  Wed May 18 14:43:20 2011
From: sree at mahiti.org (Sreekanth S Rameshaiah)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:13:20 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
In-Reply-To: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 May 2011 18:01, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've recently discovered the uWSGI project -
> http://projects.unbit.it/uwsgi/ and am hoping to hear from any of you who
> have had the chance to use it in production. Specifically:
>
> 1. Is nginx+uwsgi easier to use and manage than apache and mod_wsgi?
>
We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live in next
few days.


> 2. Is there a measurable difference in memory use and performance, in
> practical terms?
>
We did not notice major difference.


> 3. Did you notice any stability issues under load?
>

No issues. Under the load that we expect, the load test showed very
satisfactory performance.

Regards,
- sree

-- 
Sreekanth S Rameshaiah
Executive Director
Mahiti Infotech Pvt. Ltd.
"OpenSpace", #583,
Vyalikaval HBCS Layout,
Nagawara, Veerannapalya,
Bangalore, India - 560043
Phone:  +91 80 4343 7373
Mobile:  +91 98455 12611
www.mahiti.org

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Wed May 18 14:55:34 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:25:34 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFA90FE3-49E0-46F5-B841-4AF70AB18CDA@sirtaj.net>


Thanks for the reply, Sree. If I might pick your brain further -

On 18-May-11, at 6:13 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
[snip]
> We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live  
> in next
> few days.

What was the reasoning behind choosing it over apache+mod_wsgi? What  
are the deal-breaker features that you'd miss if you went back to  
mod_wsgi?

-Taj.

From santrajan at gmail.com  Wed May 18 14:57:34 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:27:34 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>

(FUNCTION TROLL
    ((FUNCTION PRINT)
        "Hello World")))


On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 5:57 PM, steve <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:

> Hi Anand,
>
>
> On 05/18/2011 01:03 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote:
>
>> Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what
>> I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do.
>>
>>
> Don't feed the troll. I remarked at the fact that this person was
> deliberately trolling in another reply in this thread. Take a look at the
> URL in his sig and then see the pattern of his mails. Someone who lists open
> source software on his homepage (Apache License, even!) and then comes here
> to rant about the 'myth' of free software is obviously trolling (even if he
> sucks at doing that properly!)
>
>
> cheers,
> - steve
>
> --
> random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/
> what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Wed May 18 15:00:50 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:30:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> <BANLkTikTaH1
	8YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net>


On 18-May-11, at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:

> (FUNCTION TROLL
>    ((FUNCTION PRINT)
>        "Hello World")))
>

Please just stop.

-Taj.

From sree at mahiti.org  Wed May 18 15:02:42 2011
From: sree at mahiti.org (Sreekanth S Rameshaiah)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:32:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
In-Reply-To: <CFA90FE3-49E0-46F5-B841-4AF70AB18CDA@sirtaj.net>
References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFA90FE3-49E0-46F5-B841-4AF70AB18CDA@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=PQpaKun+YBT2VjfYNBsuuYa4Tiw@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 May 2011 18:25, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net> wrote:

>
> Thanks for the reply, Sree. If I might pick your brain further -
>
> On 18-May-11, at 6:13 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
> [snip]
>
>  We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live in next
>> few days.
>>
>
> What was the reasoning behind choosing it over apache+mod_wsgi? What are
> the deal-breaker features that you'd miss if you went back to mod_wsgi?


If we had our say, we would have settled for apache+ mod_wsgi.
Client was techie organisation and they felt nginx + uwsgi will perform
better. Our research showed that in a fully dynamic environment it makes no
difference. In a usecase where lot of static (both text/ binary) content get
served, there may be performance gain in nginx + uwsgi.
We just follow the client's directive as both almost had similar
performance.

- sree

From santrajan at gmail.com  Wed May 18 15:04:45 2011
From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:34:45 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
	<BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=5yFdV-587Mx3bd-LiSzdBXwA9vw@mail.gmail.com>

Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain  the
code I have written above?

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net>wrote:

>
> On 18-May-11, at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>
>  (FUNCTION TROLL
>>   ((FUNCTION PRINT)
>>       "Hello World")))
>>
>>
> Please just stop.
>
> -Taj.
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
http://about.me/santosh.rajan

?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
exceptions?. *Oliver
Wendell Holmes*

From abpillai at gmail.com  Wed May 18 15:11:35 2011
From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:41:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=5yFdV-587Mx3bd-LiSzdBXwA9vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
	<BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=5yFdV-587Mx3bd-LiSzdBXwA9vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinzE7c8dNyXynP-D5E8TEFyh853Kg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain  the
> code I have written above?
>

Well, thank you for the wholesome entertainment you provided.
Well, it was fun while it lasted... Goodbye.


>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang <sirtaj at sirtaj.net
> >wrote:
>
>
>

-- 
--Anand

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Wed May 18 15:25:24 2011
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:55:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=PQpaKun+YBT2VjfYNBsuuYa4Tiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFA90FE3-49E0-46F5-B841-4AF70AB18CDA@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=PQpaKun+YBT2VjfYNBsuuYa4Tiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D4D575A9-59CD-4C6E-B828-BD6121ADA4F3@sirtaj.net>


On 18-May-11, at 6:32 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
[snip]
> We just follow the client's directive as both almost had similar
> performance.
>

:) Thanks again. I hope you can give us a quick post mortem when  
you've had some time to observe it in production.

-Taj.

From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Thu May 19 09:15:23 2011
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:45:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using south for migration for a django project
Message-ID: <BANLkTinayzChZ2Y8RuyNP8c+CcvTxWzq_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all ,
I have been trying to use south(0.7) for migrating a django(1.2.5)
project (db backend - postgres but have also tried using with sqlite3)

Essentially I wish to rename a field in one of my apps.

I am also using mezzanine cms (0.10) . The first problem I run into is
that mezzanine apps become out of sync while making initial migration
although I have not made any changes to mezzanine.

The next problem is when I run the migration scripts
I get this particular error(on both postgres and sqlite3):

  AttributeError: 'DatabaseFeatures' object has no attribute
'supports_tablespaces'

I commented out the line in south causing the error. And the migration
scripts seem to run fine on my app atleast ( at least I do not get any
errors)

But while loading fixtures in the end south again exists with a
mezzanine related issue
:
DatabaseError: relation "pages_page" does not exist
LINE 1: SELECT (1) AS "a" FROM "pages_page" WHERE "pages_page"."id" ...

Can some one help me out with this . Point to a good tutorial for
south or recommend a tool that has worked for them in the past.



-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From lawgon at gmail.com  Thu May 19 09:20:26 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:50:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using south for migration for a django project
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinayzChZ2Y8RuyNP8c+CcvTxWzq_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinayzChZ2Y8RuyNP8c+CcvTxWzq_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1305789626.1994.107.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 12:45 +0530, Amit Sethi wrote:
> Can some one help me out with this . Point to a good tutorial for
> south or recommend a tool that has worked for them in the past.
> 
> 

as mentioned on IRC the easiest way is to write a script and do it
manually.
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu May 19 14:37:18 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:07:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB19gOoak9sukh-1b+OX8FBff3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikWzf7+JkiiU1FeV6UwJXfR5AJKmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimbaL+HWT4UfAuJSrAZ-Gbrx4VO+g@mail.gmail.com>

Precisely my question on your original post.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything???
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software.
> > Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a
> > healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful.
> >
> > --
> > ~noufal
> > http://nibrahim.net.in
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://about.me/santosh.rajan
>
> ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the
> exceptions?. *Oliver
> Wendell Holmes*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu May 19 14:40:45 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:10:45 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinzE7c8dNyXynP-D5E8TEFyh853Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
	<BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=5yFdV-587Mx3bd-LiSzdBXwA9vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinzE7c8dNyXynP-D5E8TEFyh853Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikmwrcGNiXaTsMLFJAN95qP3tetuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai <
abpillai at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain  the
> > code I have written above?
> >
>
> Well, thank you for the wholesome entertainment you provided.
> Well, it was fun while it lasted... Goodbye.
>
> Ahh .. didn't realise this thread had ended when sending my earlier mail
since I was scanning the thread chronologically.  I think dead threads
should remain so, and people like me who dig such threads out of their grave
should go and do some penance for such a heinous deed.

From b.ghose at gmail.com  Thu May 19 14:48:31 2011
From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:18:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=FK=mx8oB+26UTUbqwifKJKu9qVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinnGaqyooOvRdm8dC1WkHBXSDPvqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinJPoAWmAsTgHJYf0g=uNTsBtudVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinWZj33bfzvWvhbmroOSVnhAeWtvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTintpZsaZFjhk8j2ATJEC-0X=siWnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<EABDA9D6-15E0-4C1C-8BE4-97B2332E7295@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTimC7wK6vDt2=1XEvUU80uV2zcS5yQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E342289E-A67D-4779-88FA-46945AB55226@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=jF6h3Gir20V5epQ0Ep+=iuY8A5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTik8fr6KwLabOzwYNFkVv9vcHqK+Lg@mail.gmail.com>
	<69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTinHd5iCVRZ23xm1tiEctCp9Z=Jaiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CB3C426B-6744-40A5-8CD6-A8BE21686819@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=TH-gvs33HGSN9RnqgydDsHO+rPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyihctFfm-ZyXXAfA6J-YXkXcOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net>
	<BANLkTikTaH18YBSNf5txGBxg+S7ueNBqdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim3aZhkcZsJBq4YXkDJRzUWM6yDFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
> (FUNCTION TROLL
> ? ?((FUNCTION PRINT)
> ? ? ? ?"Hello World")))

You clearly don't know enough Lisp to even craft a joke properly.
Stick to what you know, that will suite you better.

Regards,
BG

-- 
Baishampayan Ghose
b.ghose at gmail.com

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu May 19 15:33:58 2011
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:03:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikjfdhcVrF649Dy5rX24grfNtSYWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM <oommenkm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web
> based application.
> The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using
> MySQL.
> Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I
> need to choose some frame works?
>
> Please help me.
>
> I cannot speak for whether mod_python is dead or alive. Resolving the
Schr?dinger's cat paradox could perhaps be easier. My opinions however would
be that it would depend very substantially upon the nature of the
application.

a. For extremely high concurrency I would look at tornado. However it has
relatively limited features - so more often than not I would usually give it
a pass.
b. For most apps, and especially if I wanted a comprehensive well integrated
framework - I would look to django. It also happens to perhaps be one of the
most frequently used.
c. I chose pylons since it better followed my preference of integrating
multiple tightly focused frameworks (for templating / databases etc.). Note
that pylons is now no longer actively developed and its successor is
pyramid. However I haven't really looked at pyramid though thats the one you
would want to look at. One particular aspect of pylons is that it does not
itself contain a ORM and is usually used with sqlalchemy. Since you
specifically mentioned large data - this option of pyramid + sqlalchemy
might give you better mileage if the huge data needs to be maintained in a
RDBMS.

There are a number of other useful frameworks as well including web.py,
turbogears etc, but I am not experienced enough to comment on them.

Also there are many other light weight / micro frameworks (eg. flask, bottle
etc.) You could also consider using sqlalchemy in conjunction with such
micro frameworks as well if you need a simple web tier with some complex
database handling.

Dhananjay

Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Thu May 19 16:03:52 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:33:52 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikjfdhcVrF649Dy5rX24grfNtSYWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikjfdhcVrF649Dy5rX24grfNtSYWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=Sy2t34pXeZtKzcer=HDsL6E0H8g@mail.gmail.com>

Turbogear  developers works with Pyramid guys, but no outcome is planned so
far. They might create a framework on top of pyramid or do contribution to
plug-ins..
If you are starter, I would advise you go with Django. Pyramid is nice for
hard-core developer, when it comes to end level framework users, it still
lacks of examples/tutorials, cookbooks, patterns.

I use Pyramid because of Mako and SqlAlchemy. But I have a lot of
frustration when I started with Pylons 2 years back.

Advantages with Django:

1. Huge community members than Pyramid/Pylons
2. There are a lot of plug-ins/todos/guides/helps/blogs available
3. There are many open-source applications to learn from
4. There are forum/blog/cms systems

Django is self contained solution, where it has ORM/Templates/Views/Routing
tightly couples, IMHO. Where as in Pyramid, you have Options..

Regards,

Gopalakrishnan Subramani

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM <oommenkm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web
> > based application.
> > The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are
> using
> > MySQL.
> > Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or
> I
> > need to choose some frame works?
> >
> > Please help me.
> >
> > I cannot speak for whether mod_python is dead or alive. Resolving the
> Schr?dinger's cat paradox could perhaps be easier. My opinions however
> would
> be that it would depend very substantially upon the nature of the
> application.
>
> a. For extremely high concurrency I would look at tornado. However it has
> relatively limited features - so more often than not I would usually give
> it
> a pass.
> b. For most apps, and especially if I wanted a comprehensive well
> integrated
> framework - I would look to django. It also happens to perhaps be one of
> the
> most frequently used.
> c. I chose pylons since it better followed my preference of integrating
> multiple tightly focused frameworks (for templating / databases etc.). Note
> that pylons is now no longer actively developed and its successor is
> pyramid. However I haven't really looked at pyramid though thats the one
> you
> would want to look at. One particular aspect of pylons is that it does not
> itself contain a ORM and is usually used with sqlalchemy. Since you
> specifically mentioned large data - this option of pyramid + sqlalchemy
> might give you better mileage if the huge data needs to be maintained in a
> RDBMS.
>
> There are a number of other useful frameworks as well including web.py,
> turbogears etc, but I am not experienced enough to comment on them.
>
> Also there are many other light weight / micro frameworks (eg. flask,
> bottle
> etc.) You could also consider using sqlalchemy in conjunction with such
> micro frameworks as well if you need a simple web tier with some complex
> database handling.
>
> Dhananjay
>
> Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com  Mon May 23 16:39:49 2011
From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:09:49 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=Sy2t34pXeZtKzcer=HDsL6E0H8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimdHFzajfUD4jB6vOzvM0p9M_4eLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikjfdhcVrF649Dy5rX24grfNtSYWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Sy2t34pXeZtKzcer=HDsL6E0H8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=SLLfHsKcRjsGp11X3nCmK54-Cyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani
<gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Django is self contained solution, where it has ORM/Templates/Views/Routing
> tightly couples, IMHO. Where as in Pyramid, you have Options..

They are not tightly coupled at all.

In core django: There are a couple of generic views that are coupled
to Models (ORM), and there exists an integration layer between forms
and Models; forms are quite usable without Models. templates, routing,
etc are not coupled at all, though the bundled urlconf system is
simple to learn and effective.

In django contrib apps: 3rd party apps: preminent apps such as auth,
admin etc depend on ORM, and most 3rd party apps assume the use of the
ORM.

In any case, if you're just starting off with your application, django
would be a good choice (one of many), and with good options to move to
other components later.

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

From alephnull at hcoop.net  Mon May 23 16:47:40 2011
From: alephnull at hcoop.net (Alok G. Singh)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:17:40 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI?
References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTikr5gwi02sRWj+OzZ0bBV=KeD7w6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CFA90FE3-49E0-46F5-B841-4AF70AB18CDA@sirtaj.net>
	<BANLkTi=PQpaKun+YBT2VjfYNBsuuYa4Tiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zkmdlbhv.fsf@euclid.localdomain>

Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:

> If we had our say, we would have settled for apache+ mod_wsgi.  Client
> was techie organisation and they felt nginx + uwsgi will perform
> better. Our research showed that in a fully dynamic environment it
> makes no difference.

Apache is a behemoth and would be overkill (imho) for the task of
reverse-proxying. Additionally, if the app is configured such that
static content is served from nginx, you reap that performance benefit
too.

TBH, the benefits are from the nginx end, not the uwsgi end. paster,
gunicorn, uwsgi, et al are about as fast as each other. nginx can load
balance and serve static content faster than Apache consuming less
memory[1]. The feature rich Apache has a bigger attack profile as well.

Footnotes: 
[1]  All this is app dependant, of course :)

-- 
Alok

"Can you program?"  "Well, I'm literate, if that's what you mean!"


From varun.v.naik at gmail.com  Mon May 23 17:00:05 2011
From: varun.v.naik at gmail.com (Varun Naik)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:30:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
Message-ID: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

 I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as
for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me.

-- 
Thanks & Regard,
Varun.V.Naik

From venkat83 at gmail.com  Mon May 23 17:20:47 2011
From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:50:47 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik <varun.v.naik at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
>  I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as
> for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me.
>
>
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/

-V

From as1438 at msstate.edu  Mon May 23 17:26:55 2011
From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:26:55 -0500
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimNq6uhCB6n5-SGAUzs67-5CyXB7A@mail.gmail.com>

try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik <varun.v.naik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> >  I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages
> as
> > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me.
> >
> >
> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/
>
> -V
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From rajkannan.rajan at gmail.com  Mon May 23 17:35:32 2011
From: rajkannan.rajan at gmail.com (Rajkannan Rajan)
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:05:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimNq6uhCB6n5-SGAUzs67-5CyXB7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimNq6uhCB6n5-SGAUzs67-5CyXB7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimNVF-eJY_yqT6naMfpqWkiXOpYpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Ananya Sharma <as1438 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik <varun.v.naik at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > ?I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages
>> as
>> > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me.
>> >
>> >
>> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/
>>
>> -V

http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/
(optional)

From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com  Tue May 24 07:17:03 2011
From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 10:47:03 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimNVF-eJY_yqT6naMfpqWkiXOpYpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimNq6uhCB6n5-SGAUzs67-5CyXB7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimNVF-eJY_yqT6naMfpqWkiXOpYpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimwa4hqL90hbt5RoGVTZsrhGiuq4A@mail.gmail.com>

http://diveintopython.org/

nice book as well..

--
Gopalakrishnan Subramani

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Rajkannan Rajan
<rajkannan.rajan at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Ananya Sharma <as1438 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> > try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation.
> >
> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S <venkat83 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik <varun.v.naik at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello All,
> >> >
> >> >  I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming
> languages
> >> as
> >> > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help
> me.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/
> >>
> >> -V
>
> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index
>
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/
> (optional)
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lawgon at gmail.com  Tue May 24 07:42:05 2011
From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 11:12:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimwa4hqL90hbt5RoGVTZsrhGiuq4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=tH3vN1ybetkPSDBSy8y=+TorNZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimNq6uhCB6n5-SGAUzs67-5CyXB7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimNVF-eJY_yqT6naMfpqWkiXOpYpg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimwa4hqL90hbt5RoGVTZsrhGiuq4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1306215725.1994.169.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 10:47 +0530, Gopalakrishnan Subramani wrote:
> http://diveintopython.org/
> 
> nice book as well.. 

not for people new to programming
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
http://lawgon.livejournal.com/


From vid at svaksha.com  Tue May 24 08:06:06 2011
From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 06:06:06 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinM6ORL4JfmPmWzp6KeXhKWBPDyag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiniyf+tAK4U3vySvfjz18rHdu3SAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 15:00, Varun Naik <varun.v.naik at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> ?I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as
> for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me.

LPTHW (Learn Python The Hard Way) is the best choice if you are new to
programming[0] in general. I've added some more useful resources
[1]...[5], but would still recommend that you finish LPTHW first. Btw,
in my experience, its easier to learn a language if you can identify
the task you want accomplished -- 'compute statistical averages for
BSE prices daily' or  'want to add foo-bar feature in my weblog [2]',
etc...

[0] I was about to write 'learning how to use virtualenvwrapper is an
important skill' but stopped. Didnt want to overwhelm you with
advanced stuff, which you can look into when you are more comfortable
with python basics.
[1] http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html
[2] http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming/

General tips and reading:
[3] http://bayes.colorado.edu/PythonGuidelines.html
[4] http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html
[5] http://nullege.com/ (a search engine for Python code)

HTH,
vid ? http://svaksha.com ?