From as1438 at msstate.edu Mon May 2 04:24:50 2011 From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:24:50 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython Message-ID: Hey guys, I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group. Does anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently, please. Thanks - Ananya From nitin.nitp at gmail.com Mon May 2 05:29:06 2011 From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 08:59:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, If you are beginner in python then you should first learn few basics of python(like module package list dict etc), then BioPython will be an easy task for you.No need to take separate class for BioPython for sure. Thanks Nitin K On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Ananya Sharma wrote: > Hey guys, > > I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group. > Does > anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in > Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently, please. > > Thanks > > - Ananya > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Nitin K From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Mon May 2 08:50:20 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:20:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] editor for restructured text In-Reply-To: <1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost> References: <1303973137.1942.360.camel@localhost> <87y62u6dmr.fsf@gmail.com> <1303976955.1942.363.camel@localhost> <87tydi6buh.fsf@gmail.com> <1303981704.1942.364.camel@localhost> <87mxja67yj.fsf@gmail.com> <1304057779.1942.390.camel@localhost> <87wridfsqu.fsf@gmail.com> <1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost> Message-ID: +1 for emacs. I use Emacs with Markdown mode and it does well. During initial stage, emacs is very harder to ACCEPT when you have used other editors. It frustrates so much and it makes you to remember key strokes as like vi. When you start emacs freshly, then you should not tend to customize the emacs, instead use it as it is with .rst mode extension as suggested by others. I replace the Search with Ctrl + F than Ctrl + S and mapped Ctrl + S to save the file typical Windows style. Other than that it works very normally. I would recommend to use the cua mode for Copy/Cut/Paste shortcuts than using default emacs binding.. www.emacswiki.org/*CuaMode.* For out of box software user with no specific interest in extending the editor, use the Gedit or other editors which support ReST.* Typical Emacs(VI?) users are married to Emacs(VI?), so either they fit into emacs way(user mindset) or they make emacs to fit into their way(customize). -- Gopalakrishnan Subramani * On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 12:29 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > > in fedora the ReSt thingie is there by default > > > > Opening files with a .rst prefix should enable to mode automatically. > > yes - w00t > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Mon May 2 09:03:07 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:33:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id Message-ID: Anybody works here on Pyramid web framework? I have an aggregation portal, I am planing to migrate to Pyramid in a month time. I am looking for open-id authentication to use with Pyramid. Google search shows me https://github.com/ralphbean/pyramid_openid Any other framework do you use for open-id in Python? I will store the user settings in redis not in RDBMS. Thank you, --- Krish From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Mon May 2 09:05:25 2011 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:35:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani wrote: > Anybody works here on Pyramid web framework? I have an aggregation portal, I > am planing to migrate to Pyramid in a month time. > I am looking for open-id authentication to use with Pyramid. Google search > shows me https://github.com/ralphbean/pyramid_openid > > Any other framework do you use for open-id in Python? I will store the user > settings in redis not in RDBMS. Flask has one OpenID extension: http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/ -- Baiju M From noufal at gmail.com Mon May 2 12:49:19 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 16:19:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] editor for restructured text In-Reply-To: (Gopalakrishnan Subramani's message of "Mon, 2 May 2011 12:20:20 +0530") References: <1303973137.1942.360.camel@localhost> <87y62u6dmr.fsf@gmail.com> <1303976955.1942.363.camel@localhost> <87tydi6buh.fsf@gmail.com> <1303981704.1942.364.camel@localhost> <87mxja67yj.fsf@gmail.com> <1304057779.1942.390.camel@localhost> <87wridfsqu.fsf@gmail.com> <1304060810.1942.394.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <87wri94btc.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Gopalakrishnan Subramani writes: [...] > Typical Emacs(VI?) users are married to Emacs(VI?), so either they fit > into emacs way(user mindset) or they make emacs to fit into their > way(customize). [...] I have a pimped out Emacs config for editing Python code which I plan to do a presentation on this year in Pune. -- I'm sure that that could be indented more readably, but I'm scared of the awk parser. -- Larry Wall in <6849 at jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From as1438 at msstate.edu Mon May 2 17:14:47 2011 From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 10:14:47 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nitin, Thanks for your immediate response. The way I am learning Python is going through a book and doing those simple exercises given at the end of each chapter, and also by watching YouTube videos. I am not very good at passive learning (reading book to practice stuff) that's why I was keen on getting into class so that I can get actively involved in learning the language more efficiently. I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all. So, please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it from. Thanks -Ananya On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Nitin Kumar wrote: > Hello, > > If you are beginner in python then you should first learn few basics of > python(like module package list dict etc), then BioPython will be an easy > task for you.No need to take separate class for BioPython for sure. > > Thanks > Nitin K > > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Ananya Sharma wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > > > I am a beginner in learning python and just now found about this group. > > Does > > anybody know about any workshop or classes for learning BioPython in > > Bangalore or anywhere else in India? I need to know this urgently, > please. > > > > Thanks > > > > - Ananya > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > Nitin K > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From anandology at gmail.com Mon May 2 17:48:57 2011 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:18:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all. So, > please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it from. If you want some good examples and exercises, you can try my python tutorial. http://anandology.com/python-tutorial/ Anand From lawgon at gmail.com Tue May 3 03:11:18 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 06:41:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Learning BioPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1304385078.17425.73.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2011-05-02 at 10:14 -0500, Ananya Sharma wrote: > I am using the book by O'Reilly but i do not find it engaging at all. > So, > please let me know if there is any good book out there to learn it > from. python in a nutshell by Alex Martelli -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From alok at hiddenreflex.com Wed May 4 13:46:38 2011 From: alok at hiddenreflex.com (alok at hiddenreflex.com) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:46:38 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] [Job] Epic Browser Creators Hiring Web Developers! Message-ID: Hi Bangpypers, We're a highly innovative product company, and seek like-minded software engineers to join our team. Hidden Reflex is the creator of the Epic Browser, the first web browser for India, which in just 8 months has nearly 7 lakh downloads across 194 countries. Our second product is a soon-to-be-launched django/python web application which will be one of the largest news aggregation and delivery apps ever launched, and probably the biggest ever for India. If you want to work on cutting edge web technologies, are hard-working and into all things technical...then you'll find a good home as part of our team. Please write me to begin a discussion! Best Regards, Alok, CEO and Founder Hidden Reflex alok at hiddenreflex dot com From oommenkm at gmail.com Thu May 5 12:17:08 2011 From: oommenkm at gmail.com (OOMMEN KM) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:47:08 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development Message-ID: Hi All, I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web based application. The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using MySQL. Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I need to choose some frame works? Please help me. Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322 From ataulla at gmail.com Thu May 5 12:22:18 2011 From: ataulla at gmail.com (Ataulla S H) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 15:52:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: go for pylons framework with mysql On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM wrote: > Hi All, > > I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web > based application. > The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using > MySQL. > Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I > need to choose some frame works? > > Please help me. > > Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322 > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lawgon at gmail.com Thu May 5 12:41:41 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 16:11:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 15:47 +0530, OOMMEN KM wrote: > Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? > Or I > need to choose some frame works? mod_python is dead - try django -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From benignbala at gmail.com Thu May 5 12:55:35 2011 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:25:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > mod_python is dead - try django Django may be a good option. But mod_python is not dead. The verbatim message from mod_python website: Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is required to maintain it. So, may be, if it is an opinion and not the exact fact, we can tell that it is just a view/opinion and let the OP decide. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Thu May 5 13:17:29 2011 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:47:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> >> mod_python is dead - try django > > ? ? ? ? Django may be a good option. But mod_python is not dead. The > verbatim message from mod_python website: > > Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not > mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means > that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is > required to maintain it. mod_python has been officially declared as dead. And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years). http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html Regards, Baiju M From benignbala at gmail.com Thu May 5 13:23:32 2011 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:53:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Hi On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Baiju M wrote: > > mod_python has been officially declared as dead. It has been declared dead by a few. The mod_python site says it isn't. > And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years). Yes, for about 2 years. > http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html > http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html > The modpython site was updated sometime in October, which was after these 2 posts. So, might be different. We won't know unless someone raises a critical bug and how it is treated. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From sudheer.s at sudheer.net Thu May 5 13:31:02 2011 From: sudheer.s at sudheer.net (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:01:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC28A76.30301@sudheer.net> On Thursday 05 May 2011 03:52 PM, Ataulla S H wrote: > go for pylons framework with mysql To be precise, use Pyramid. Pylons is now a brand name under which several projects exist. Pylons 1.0 is now a legacy framework. If you are looking at Pylons, go with Pyramid. A typical Pyramid application uses SQLAlchemy ORM to talk to databases. Like Kenneth mentioned, mod_python is dead. WSGI is the way to go. A web server, paster is shipped along with Pyramid. You can use that as well. You could either use either paster or mod_wsgi. -- With warm regards, Sudheer. S Personal home page - http://sudheer.net | Tech Chorus - http://techchorus.net Web and IT services - http://binaryvibes.co.in Twitter: http://twitter.com/bngsudheer http://twitter.com/binaryvibes From lawgon at gmail.com Thu May 5 13:40:39 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:10:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 16:25 +0530, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote: > Currently mod_python is not under active development. This does not > mean that it is "dead" as some people have claimed. It smiply means > that the code and the project are mature enough when very little is > required to maintain it. no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind would use it. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From noufal at gmail.com Thu May 5 13:56:43 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 17:26:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: (OOMMEN KM's message of "Thu, 5 May 2011 15:47:08 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> OOMMEN KM writes: > Hi All, > > I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a > web based application. The application will have to handle a huge > amount of data and we are using MySQL. Will mod_python a good option > for the development of this application? Or I need to choose some > frame works? [...] One of the areas in the Python world where "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it." is violated horribly is web frameworks. There are tons of them out there each with their own advantages and disadvantages. Partisans will probably direct you towards the one they like the best and use but at the end of the day, you're going to have to evaluate a bunch of them and decide. Here are some notes on my experiences. Django - Very widely used and with a large community and 3rd party plugins. Easy to get something done since many "standard" things already have plugins written for them. The Pinax framework (as far as I know) is Django + a lot of useful apps (in the Django sense) bundled together to make life easy. The downsides is that it suffers from the NIH syndrome[1] and you have to buy into it's own way of doing things if you want to use it. Flask - Young and lightweight. Flexible with components (you can mix and match parts). Very well documented, good community. There's a bunch of offshoots of Zope (which was one of the earliest successfuly Python projects) like Grok, web2py etc. Haven't used any of them. I don't know anything about Pyramid and Pylons. You should use a framework rather than code up everything yourself since they take care of a lot of "standard" things for you (e.g user authentication etc.). After you're done with your app, you need to deploy it and that's where things like mod_wsgi[2], gunicorn etc. come into the picture. You need to pick one of these and put your app in the wild. I'm sorry if you're looking for a clear single answer. There isn't one and you've got your work cut out for you if you're going to do web development. Footnotes: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here [2] mod_python was declared dead by Graham Dumpleton (the author) and he recommended that people start using mod_wsgi instead. -- Bones: "The man's DEAD, Jim!" From senthil at uthcode.com Thu May 5 14:30:57 2011 From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 20:30:57 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 05:10:39PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has > long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind would > use it. Looks like I fall into that category. :) I was using mod_python effectively in my previous job. It is simple and easy to work with. I knew about mod_wsgi and had plans for migration as soon as I took over the project, but given the simplicity of mod_python and since it met our purpose effectively, I just used without any qualms. Well, just hop over to Stackoverflow and search for mod_python, you will find questions coming up every now and then. I appreciate Balachandran's answers wherein he said that we can know it is dead only when someone raises a critical bug and project does not respond. Apache's also page says that mod_python is available from the modpython.org website. I was thinking that Graham Dumpleton (author of mod_wsgi) who calls that mod_python is dead was the author of mod_python too (in that case, argument would bear weight), but it looks he is not the author of mod_python and it is for you to decide. So, the conclusion one can draw is, some people might call you names if you use mod_python and you can choose to ignore it, that's it. :) If you find a good reason to move other framework, it would be definitely good, and you will know your reasons well. To the original poster (OOMMEN KM), choose whichever you like (random choice of frameworks which Noufal mentioned in his response is fine, mod_python is okay) and get started. After you get started, you will be able to decide either to stick or quickly make jump and it won't be difficult. Hope this helps. -- Senthil Smoking is, as far as I'm concerned, the entire point of being an adult. -- Fran Lebowitz From lawgon at gmail.com Thu May 5 14:36:40 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:06:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2011-05-05 at 20:30 +0800, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 05:10:39PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > no doubt dead men do not tell lies - but the fact is that Apache has > > long ago dropped support for it. And no one in their right mind > would > > use it. > > Looks like I fall into that category. :) > > I was using mod_python effectively in my previous job. It is simple > and easy to work with. I knew about mod_wsgi and had plans for > migration as soon as I took over the project, but given the simplicity > of mod_python and since it met our purpose effectively, I just used > without any qualms. I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Thu May 5 14:42:16 2011 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:12:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar wrote: > Hi > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Baiju M wrote: >> >> mod_python has been officially declared as dead. > > ? ? ? ? ? It has been declared dead by a ?few. The mod_python site > says it isn't. It's not written by some "few", rather a long time maintainer of that project: Look at these last commits (he even committed after the last release): $ svn log --limit 100 https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/quetzalcoatl/mod_python/trunk/ > t.txt $ grep "| grahamd |" t.txt |wc -l 75 >> And the code base is unmaintained for a long time (many years). > > ? ? ? ? ?Yes, for about 2 years. The last released code is actually more old (2006 end is last commit with any bugfixes) http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/quetzalcoatl/mod_python/tags/release-3-3-1/NEWS?view=log so, any useful commit happened almost 5 years before. >> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/06/modpython-project-is-now-officially.html >> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2010/05/modpython-project-soon-to-be-officially.html >> > > ? ? ? ? The modpython site was updated sometime in October, which was > after these 2 posts. So, might be different. We won't know unless > someone raises a critical bug and how it is treated. FYI, Apache has an official page to list dead projects: http://attic.apache.org/ And the mod_python is listed there: http://attic.apache.org/projects/quetzalcoatl.html BTW, there is a new project to deploy WSGI apps in Apache: http://www.modwsgi.org Regards, Baiju M From senthil at uthcode.com Thu May 5 15:02:29 2011 From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 21:02:29 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache. I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining the project would be using mod_python. But think of the scenario - It's whole purpose was to dispatch the request handled by apache to python module which invoked tools and many of them were standalone tools. So, this is strictly not a web-application scenario (MVC kind), but a usage scenario considering things we did with apache and other binaries. mod_python served as an easy to use interface. Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using mod_python. Regarding it is usage with modern apache, it is possible easily, just an apt-get away if you are debian based systems. On my ubuntu system, synaptic says that: """ The mod_python module supports web applications written in Python. Because the parser is embedded in the server as an Apache module, it will run much faster than traditional CGI. This package is built for the current Python version. Canonical provides critical updates for libapache2-mod-python until April 2012. """ So, it installs well with latest apache and python. -- Senthil The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it. -- Brian Kernighan From noufal at gmail.com Thu May 5 15:09:07 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 18:39:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> (Senthil Kumaran's message of "Thu, 5 May 2011 21:02:29 +0800") References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> Message-ID: <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Senthil Kumaran writes: > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache. > > I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using > mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining > the project would be using mod_python. I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just picked it up because it was available and simple to use. [...] > Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using > mod_python. I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its deprecated status. [...] -- "Life and death are seldom logical." "But attaining a desired goal always is." -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Fri May 6 07:11:33 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:41:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: You need to be careful enough to choose between Django vs Pylons/Pyramid Django has larger community than Pyramid has now and you are likely to find many examples, tutorials, reusable apps and hacks in Django than Pyramid. Until or unless you know that Django's default ORM or its template are not suite your need, Django would be ideal choice for average web developer. I personally prefer Pyramid.. Regards, Gopalakrishnan Subramani On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Senthil Kumaran writes: > > > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > >> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache. > > > > I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using > > mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining > > the project would be using mod_python. > > I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just > picked it up because it was available and simple to use. > > [...] > > > > Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using > > mod_python. > > I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would > however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its > deprecated status. > [...] > > > -- > "Life and death are seldom logical." > "But attaining a desired goal always is." > -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From venkat83 at gmail.com Tue May 10 08:23:44 2011 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:53:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Companies using Django in Bangalore/Chennai Message-ID: Hi, Was wondering which companies in Bangalore/Chennai use Django actively; was wondering whether companies do spend in getting their employees trained on Django; or is it more along the lines of in-house training? Also, i guess some of us are freelancers in this group - can you share the approximate charges for your respective training(s) along with the schedules? -Venkat From ramkrsna at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:41:36 2011 From: ramkrsna at gmail.com (Ramakrishna Reddy) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 17:11:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [CFP] PyCon India 2011, Pune, India. Message-ID: =================================================== PyCon India 2011 :: 16 - 18 September, Pune, India. =================================================== The third edition of PyCon India is being held in Pune,India from 16th September 2011 to 18th September 2011. The organisers of PyCon India 2011 are looking for talk and tutorial proposals to fill the formal presentation and tutorial tracks. We accept proposals on a very broad range of topics related to Python programming. Important Dates ---------------- Call for proposals opens: May 10, 2011 Proposal submission deadline: June 30, 2011 Proposal acceptance: July 18, 2011 First presentation upload: Aug 15, 2011 Final presentation upload (with changes if any): Aug 31, 2011 Permission to record/release presentations ------------------------------------------ In PyCon India, we intend to record all presentations live and release the recordings for free on the Internet so as to benefit the wider Python community. When you are submitting a proposal, you automatically give the Indian Python Software Society, the organizers of PyCon India, the permissions to record/edit and release the audio/video of your presentation.No exceptions will be made in this regard. If you do not want a recording of your presentation to be made, don't submit a proposal. The released media will be licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License, version 3.0. Topics for PyCon India ---------------------- We encourage high quality proposals in all the areas involving Python : the language, its implementation, uses, and the community behind it. Each proposal will be judged according to its correctness, clarity, and elegance. We invite everyone interested in Python to participate. Core Python (including Python 3.x) Python standard library Other Python libraries and extensions Other Python implementations (such as PyPy, IronPython etc) Concurrency Databases Data Analysis/ Engineering in Python Scientific Programming Network programming Game programming Education and Training Embedding/extending GUI programming Packaging Python Code System administration Business applications Documentation Software development tools Testing Web programming Mobile computing Open source Python projects Talk Format ----------- The typical length of a talk should be no more than 45 minutes. The presentation style should be concise, to the point with sufficient examples to clarify the discussion to the audience, if needed. After every talk there will be time reserved for questions from the audience (10 minutes). We will be providing a buffer of 5-10 minutes between talks so that the presenters get sufficient time to set-up their talk and attendees can move between the halls. Tutorial Format --------------- The typical length of the tutorial should be no more than 3 hours. All the classes run in PyCon India are volunteered. If you like to propose a tutorial, The submission of the tutorials also follow the same time lines as the talks. Proposal submission ------------------- Talk and tutorial proposals should be submitted to http://in.pycon.org/2011/talks/submit -- Ramakrishna Reddy? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? GPG Key ID:31FF0090 Fingerprint =? 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F? 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090 From noufal at gmail.com Tue May 10 21:12:07 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 00:42:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India CFP now open In-Reply-To: (Ramakrishna Reddy's message of "Tue, 10 May 2011 16:38:23 +0530") References: Message-ID: <871v06fjzs.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> The call for proposals for PyCon India 2011 is open now. Please consider submitting a proposal and spreading the word. Ramakrishna Reddy writes: > =================================================== > Pycon India 2011 :: 16 - 18 September, Pune, India. > =================================================== > > The third edition of PyCon India is being held in Pune,India from 16th > September 2011 to 18th September 2011. The organisers of PyCon India > 2011 are looking for talk and tutorial proposals to fill the formal > presentation and tutorial tracks. We accept proposals on a very broad > range of topics related to Python programming. > > Important Dates > ---------------- > Call for proposals opens: May 10, 2011 > Proposal submission deadline: June 30, 2011 > Proposal acceptance: July 18, 2011 > First presentation upload: Aug 15, 2011 > Final presentation upload (with changes if any): Aug 31, 2011 > > > Permission to record/release presentations > ------------------------------------------ > In PyCon India, we intend to record all presentations live and release > the recordings for free on the Internet so as to benefit the wider > Python community. When you are submitting a proposal, you > automatically give the Indian Python Software Society, the organizers > of PyCon India, the permissions to record/edit and release the > audio/video of your presentation.No exceptions will be made in this > regard. If you do not want a recording of your presentation to be > made, don't submit a proposal. The released media will be licensed > under the Creative Commons Attribution License, version 3.0. > > Topics for PyCon India > ---------------------- > We encourage high quality proposals in all the areas involving Python > : the language, its implementation, uses, and the community behind it. > Each proposal will be judged according to its correctness, clarity, > and elegance. We invite everyone interested in Python to participate. > > Core Python (including Python 3.x) > > Python standard library > > Other Python libraries and extensions > > Other Python implementations (such as PyPy, IronPython etc) > > Concurrency > > Databases > > Data Analysis/ Engineering in Python > > Scientific Programming > > Network programming > > Game programming > > Education and Training > > Embedding/extending > > GUI programming > > Packaging Python Code > > System administration > > Business applications > > Documentation > > Software development tools > > Testing > > Web programming > > Mobile computing > > Open source Python projects > > Talk Format > ----------- > The typical length of a talk should be no more than 45 minutes. The > presentation style should be concise, to the point with sufficient > examples to clarify the discussion to the audience, if needed. After > every talk there will be time reserved for questions from the audience > (10 minutes). We will be providing a buffer of 5-10 minutes between > talks so that the presenters get sufficient time to set-up their talk > and attendees can move between the halls. > > > Tutorial Format > --------------- > The typical length of the tutorial should be no more than 3 hours. All > the classes run in PyCon India are volunteered. If you like to propose > a tutorial, The submission of the tutorials also follow the same time > lines as the talks. > > Proposal submission > ------------------- > Talk and tutorial proposals should be submitted to > http://in.pycon.org/2011/talks/submit -- Captain's Log, star date 21:34.5... From lawgon at thenilgiris.com Thu May 12 03:46:55 2011 From: lawgon at thenilgiris.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:16:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training Message-ID: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost> hi, there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of a modern web programmer. I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty, and accommodation will be provided/arranged. As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is guaranteed for anyone who passes. Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things. Please contact me off list. -- regards KG http://lawgon.livejournal.com Coimbatore LUG rox http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/ From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com Thu May 12 07:52:48 2011 From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:22:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost> References: <1305164815.17425.225.camel@localhost> Message-ID: A good venture Kenneth. Regards Rajeev J Sebastian On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting > constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some > institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide > mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have > to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the > all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of > a modern web programmer. > > I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will > produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be > flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can > run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the > trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty, > and accommodation will be provided/arranged. > > As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is > guaranteed for anyone who passes. > > Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More > important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things. > > Please contact me off list. > -- > regards > KG > http://lawgon.livejournal.com > Coimbatore LUG rox > http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From venkat83 at gmail.com Thu May 12 11:27:39 2011 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:57:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [X-POST] Python@Google in Google I/O Message-ID: Was watching Python@ Google talk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQS8EDG1P4 Didnt know Python turned 20 in Feb this year! (Born in Feb 1991). Belated wishes honey ;) -V- http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/ From sajuptpm at gmail.com Thu May 12 19:46:25 2011 From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 23:16:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training Message-ID: Hi, I think 25k is too high !!! > hi, > > there is a large demand for python/django programmers, and I am getting > constant requests for candidates. I had tried to interest some > institutes in training, but most of them are unprofessional and provide > mere theoretical knowledge. Companies that need django developers have > to spend too much time training their recruits. The recruits lack the > all round skills in development and deployment that are the hall mark of > a modern web programmer. > > I have decided to offer training in a live environment which will > produce people who can 'hit the ground running'. The programme will be > flexible, tuned to the individual needs. This means that the course can > run from one month (minimum) up to 3 months. Again depending on the > trainee, it will be both on location and remote. The location is Ooty, > and accommodation will be provided/arranged. > > As an introductory offer, the charge will be 25K - and a job is > guaranteed for anyone who passes. > > Prerequisites - some knowledge of programming and web development. More > important, the ability to work hard and the desire to learn new things. > > Please contact me off list. > -- > regards > KG > http://lawgon.livejournal.com > Coimbatore LUG rox > http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/ > From ramdaz at gmail.com Thu May 12 19:56:04 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 23:26:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Saju M wrote: > Hi, > I think 25k is too high !!! > > I think he is talking of an exhaustive 1-3 month course, that too in Ooty. From lawgon at gmail.com Sat May 14 03:07:09 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 06:37:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 23:16 +0530, Saju M wrote: > I think 25k is too high !!! it is low - less than the first month's salary. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From pasokan at gmail.com Sat May 14 08:48:06 2011 From: pasokan at gmail.com (Asokan Pichai) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 12:18:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12 May 2011 23:16, Saju M wrote: > Hi, > I think 25k is too high !!! > > Then do not attend; Learn on your own and start a batch at a lower price point -- Asokan Pichai *-------------------* We will find a way. Or, make one. (Hannibal) From vivek at vivekdurai.com Sat May 14 17:43:41 2011 From: vivek at vivekdurai.com (vivek durai) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:13:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: I've been examining the Pyramid docs recently. Stuff that put me off include the zope elements...which somehow never seemed pythonic enough. I've been working on django apps for a couple of years now and still find it lacking in a number of features (lately the formwizard contrib app has been giving me a lot of grief...and earlier it was row-level permissions)...which is why the interest in Pyramid now... Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard - svn version). Regards, Vivek On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > You need to be careful enough to choose between Django vs Pylons/Pyramid > > Django has larger community than Pyramid has now and you are likely to find > many examples, tutorials, reusable apps and hacks in Django than Pyramid. > Until or unless you know that Django's default ORM or its template are not > suite your need, Django would be ideal choice for average web developer. > > I personally prefer Pyramid.. > > Regards, > > Gopalakrishnan Subramani > > > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > > Senthil Kumaran writes: > > > > > On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 06:06:40PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > >> I do not think you would use it today - with a modern apache. > > > > > > I should have been more specific. It was 2010 when we were using > > > mod_python and still (in 2011) my colleagues who should be maintaining > > > the project would be using mod_python. > > > > I remember you talking about this. If I remember correctly, you just > > picked it up because it was available and simple to use. > > > > [...] > > > > > > > Ofcourse, for quick web projects, I would really not mind using > > > mod_python. > > > > I wouldn't mind using CGI or PHP for quick and dirty work. I would > > however dissuade people from using it for new projects given its > > deprecated status. > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > "Life and death are seldom logical." > > "But attaining a desired goal always is." > > -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From gora at mimirtech.com Sat May 14 18:43:11 2011 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:13:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:13 PM, vivek durai wrote: [...] > Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much > appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard - svn > version). [...] Haven't used pyramid, but what issues are you facing with Django form wizard? Regards, Gora From ramdaz at gmail.com Sat May 14 18:47:11 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:17:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:13 PM, vivek durai wrote: > [...] > > Anyone with experience in Pyramid who can lend their wisdom would be much > > appreciated (or anyone who can show the way with the django formwizard - > svn > > version). > [...] > > Haven't used pyramid, but what issues are you facing with > Django form wizard? I thought most of it got fixed > > Regards, > Gora > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065 From nagappan at gmail.com Sat May 14 20:59:02 2011 From: nagappan at gmail.com (Nagappan Alagappan) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:59:02 -0700 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: <1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost> References: <1305335229.2015.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Thu, 2011-05-12 at 23:16 +0530, Saju M wrote: > > I think 25k is too high !!! > > it is low - less than the first month's salary. > I feel 25K is pretty less for the knowledge depth Kenneth have, also even if you pay in any computer centers the same, you won't get out with the info you will get from Kenneth. If corporates invite someone for such training, they have to pay atleast > 200K Thanks Nagappan > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Linux Desktop (GUI Application) Testing Project - http://ldtp.freedesktop.org http://nagappanal.blogspot.com From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Sat May 14 21:03:45 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:33:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days on python/django > it is free of cost > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Asokan Pichai wrote: > On 12 May 2011 23:16, Saju M wrote: > > > Hi, > > I think 25k is too high !!! > > > > Then do not attend; > Learn on your own and start a batch > at a lower price point > -- > Asokan Pichai > *-------------------* > We will find a way. Or, make one. (Hannibal) > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From satyaakam at gmail.com Sat May 14 22:17:23 2011 From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 01:47:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil wrote: > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days on > python/django > > it is free of cost > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi Are you serious about zero cost ? , i feel why do without cost when you can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering such training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like to see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not mind. having said that , still if you want to go solo/free , all the best , let us know the dates , time and place . -Satya fossevents.in From pradeep at btbytes.com Sun May 15 03:16:34 2011 From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:16:34 -0400 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: <1304592101.17425.127.camel@localhost> <1304595639.17425.130.camel@localhost> <1304599000.17425.133.camel@localhost> <20110505130229.GA7524@kevin> <87zkn147m4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM, vivek durai wrote: > I've been examining the Pyramid docs recently. Stuff that put me off include > the zope elements... What zope elements? Just because it depends on ONE library called zope.interface, does not make it Zope. Zope.interface is a way of providing documented public API for the components and nothing more. BTW, your code does not need to even invoke it. Reading some pyramid tutorial and documentation will help you in getting ridding of the Zope FUD. -Pradeep From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Sun May 15 06:12:31 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 09:42:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place announced soon On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil >wrote: > > > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days on > > python/django > > > it is free of cost > > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming > > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi > > > Are you serious about zero cost ? , i feel why do without cost when you > can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering such > training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the > middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like to > see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not > mind. > > having said that , still if you want to go solo/free , all the best , let > us know the dates , time and place . > > -Satya > fossevents.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com Sun May 15 11:30:19 2011 From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:00:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all please contact bye srini On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, vikas ruhil wrote: > sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place > announced soon > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami >wrote: > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil > >wrote: > > > > > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days on > > > python/django > > > > it is free of cost > > > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming > > > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi > > > > > > Are you serious about zero cost ? , i feel why do without cost when you > > can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering > such > > training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in the > > middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like > to > > see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not > > mind. > > > > having said that , still if you want to go solo/free , all the best , > let > > us know the dates , time and place . > > > > -Satya > > fossevents.in > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:11:51 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:41:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as open-source > it sounds good ! On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao wrote: > hi > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all > please contact > bye > srini > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:42 AM, vikas ruhil > wrote: > > > sure @staya everything would be discussed with you also date,time ,place > > announced soon > > > > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM, satyaakam goswami > >wrote: > > > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:33 AM, vikas ruhil > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > hey i just gonna to launch a training boot camp for 2 days on > > > > python/django > > > > > it is free of cost > > > > > also get free stuff of real working interface with programming > > > > > also we have to start a regular weekend training for free in Delhi > > > > > > > > > Are you serious about zero cost ? , i feel why do without cost when > you > > > can get paid , did you write to Narendra on iitd lug list for offering > > such > > > training to students this summer , because what i know of is he is in > the > > > middle of organizing a paid programme , yes one more thing i would like > > to > > > see a demo class if you would like to join the forces , hope you do not > > > mind. > > > > > > having said that , still if you want to go solo/free , all the best , > > let > > > us know the dates , time and place . > > > > > > -Satya > > > fossevents.in > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From aadisriram at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:17:36 2011 From: aadisriram at gmail.com (AADITYA SRIRAM) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:47:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd love to learn :) Sent from my android On 15-May-2011 4:42 PM, "vikas ruhil" wrote: From ramdaz at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:27:02 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:57:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao wrote: > hi > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all > please contact > Srinivas, I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start giving away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker will never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs 100. It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute and use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of your source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a better platform. If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create a few pythonistas there. Ramdas From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Sun May 15 13:47:44 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:17:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will never see the value of your efforts? nothing like that? someone really interested in learning stuff surely give value to instructor! don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one patent this one then really django is that much popular ? so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so need more guys do it ........... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao >wrote: > > > hi > > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to > all > > please contact > > > > Srinivas, > > I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start > giving > away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker > will > never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs 100. > > It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute and > use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of > your > source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a > better > platform. > > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create > a > few pythonistas there. > > Ramdas > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com Sun May 15 18:25:29 2011 From: nikunjbadjatya at gmail.com (Nikunj Badjatya) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 21:55:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > hi > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all > please contact > Dear Srinivas, Please let us know the place, venue and timings. Really appreciate your efforts. Although most of us wouldnt mind paying a nominal fee. ! Nikunj On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vikas ruhil wrote: > @Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will > never see the value of your efforts? nothing like that? someone really > interested in learning stuff surely give value to instructor! > don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one > patent this one then really django is that much popular ? > so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm > matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate > India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so > need more guys do it ........... > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S wrote: > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao < > srinivasaenergy at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > hi > > > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to > > all > > > please contact > > > > > > > Srinivas, > > > > I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start > > giving > > away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker > > will > > never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs > 100. > > > > It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute > and > > use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of > > your > > source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a > > better > > platform. > > > > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. > Go > > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, > create > > a > > few pythonistas there. > > > > Ramdas > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From santrajan at gmail.com Sun May 15 18:31:22 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 22:01:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread is degenerating into a level of immaturity. >From my experience in software engg, in the last 30 years, I have learned that it takes me at least 3 months (this is only an average figure), to train someone, into start becoming productive in any given language. This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3 months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be FANTASTIC. But in my last thirty years, I have not been able to see anyone who could do that! You can argue till the cows come home about 2 day seminars etc, but there, everything depends on individual capacity and ability of that person to take things from there. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vikas ruhil wrote: > @Ramdas why not? a the average freebie seeker will > never see the value of your efforts? nothing like that? someone really > interested in learning stuff surely give value to instructor! > don't forget power of open-source , django is also open-source if some one > patent this one then really django is that much popular ? > so please contribute !! money matter's but sometime attitude ,enthusiasm > matter >.........it lead to teach INDIA , i really appreciate > India moves forword then only India can compete USA in technology ??? so > need more guys do it ........... > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Ramdas S wrote: > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao < > srinivasaenergy at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > hi > > > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to > > all > > > please contact > > > > > > > Srinivas, > > > > I appreciate your enthusiasm. But a word of caution. Moment you start > > giving > > away a service free, it's value go down, and the average freebie seeker > > will > > never see the value of your efforts. Charge something even if it's Rs > 100. > > > > It's not the same as dropping your code for others to learn, cntribute > and > > use, which is how the free and open source community work. The value of > > your > > source code go up manyfold, as more people use, fix bugs and create a > > better > > platform. > > > > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. > Go > > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, > create > > a > > few pythonistas there. > > > > Ramdas > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From dialkforkaushik at gmail.com Sun May 15 19:13:09 2011 From: dialkforkaushik at gmail.com (kaushik kalyanaraman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:13:09 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread > is degenerating into a level of immaturity. > > This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3 > months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be > FANTASTIC. I have never posted to this list before although I have been around almost since its inception. I have had to make an exception to agree with the above. Some of the posts in this thread suggest either trolling or, pardon me, ignorant noobs. IMHO, and with the caveat that I am not a software engineer, I _believe_ that anything that is _gratis_ is not quite likely to work well and will generally be of questionable quality; however, if it is not, it shall almost certainly be an exception. I have no idea who Kenneth is other than through his posts that I have read in close to a dozen communities for nearly half a decade (some of which I am no longer part of). Also, unfortunately, I have no knowledge of Django and/or how it is used in software industry. However, given my impression, if he is offering such a course, and if I had a choice, I would rather shell out the 25 K. Again I am not well informed but if as Kenneth claims (and not in jest) that a month's (gross/net ?) pay is likely to be higher than the cost of his offering, then it becomes even more prudent to go with him rather than someone offering a freebie but is otherwise rather unversed. -kk -- To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge. From pradeep at btbytes.com Mon May 16 02:03:11 2011 From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:03:11 -0400 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM, kaushik kalyanaraman wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: >> I have been reading this thread with interest, and I think this whole thread >> is degenerating into a level of immaturity. >> > >> This is not about PAID or FREE. If you can train someone, for FREE for 3 >> months, FULL TIME, to become a productive software engineer, that would be >> FANTASTIC. > I have never posted to this list before although I have been around > almost since its inception. I have had to make an exception to agree > with the above. Some of the posts in this thread suggest either > trolling or, pardon me, ignorant noobs. > > IMHO, and with the caveat that I am not a software engineer, I > _believe_ that anything that is _gratis_ is not quite likely to work > well and will generally be of questionable quality; however, if it is > not, it shall almost certainly be an exception. > > I have no idea who Kenneth is other than through his posts that I have > read in close to a dozen communities for nearly half a decade (some of > which I am no longer part of). Also, unfortunately, I have no > knowledge of Django and/or how it is used in software industry. > However, given my impression, if he is offering such a course, and if > I had a choice, I would rather shell out the 25 K. Again I am not well > informed but if as Kenneth claims (and not in jest) that a month's > (gross/net ?) pay is likely to be higher than the cost of his > offering, then it becomes even more prudent to go with him rather than > someone offering a freebie but is otherwise rather unversed. This is the best response in this whole thread. Indians often wonder why Indians can't build product companies. That is not going to happen till people are ready to pay for a product (which this training is) if it brings value to them. I would rather pay 25K to work with a person who has been an active programmer and has managed teams of programmers than to a training institute where the trainers are senior students who hardly have any real life experience. Information is getting cheaper everyday, relevant knowledge dearer, as it should. +PG From vid at svaksha.com Mon May 16 06:58:09 2011 From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 04:58:09 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:27, Ramdas S wrote: > [.....] > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. Go > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, create a > few pythonistas there. I am a little stunned after reading the above. Setting aside the 'free vs non-free debate', are you implying that people who are not studying in "engineering colleges or schools are a community that dont deserve Django training" and/or are incapable of learning it? I am not quite sure what exactly your point here is, but your last para above definitely smacks of ageism** -- something very commonly practiced in India but few will admit it openly. Free software reverses all cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the training hardly would fall in the community category that you claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just not funny. ** Fwiw, its not uncommon to see many Indian Universities and colleges advertising admission cut-off requirements, say, "age limit 25 years for Masters", etc... Essentially, that leaves people outside their teens (or early twenties) who want to learn at the mercy of distance education which has no value in the eyes of an employer. Its a catch22 situation. -- vid ? http://svaksha.com ? From ramdaz at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:18:24 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:48:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:28 AM, ? ?????? ? wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:27, Ramdas S wrote: > > > [.....] > > If you want to offer training free, do it for a community that deserves. > Go > > to engineering colleges or schools, and organize a workshop or two, > create a > > few pythonistas there. > > I am a little stunned after reading the above. Setting aside the 'free > vs non-free debate', are you implying that people who are not studying > in "engineering colleges or schools are a community that dont deserve > Django training" and/or are incapable of learning it? I am not quite > sure what exactly your point here is, but your last para above > definitely smacks of ageism** -- something very commonly practiced in > India but few will admit it openly. Free software reverses all > cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to > learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean > that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy > community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the > training hardly would fall in the community category that you > claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago > but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just > not funny. > > ** Fwiw, its not uncommon to see many Indian Universities and colleges > advertising admission cut-off requirements, say, "age limit 25 years > for Masters", etc... Essentially, that leaves people outside their > teens (or early twenties) who want to learn at the mercy of distance > education which has no value in the eyes of an employer. Its a catch22 > situation. > > I am sorry to say, but I guess you are reading too much into what I had written, and using your vivid imagination to come with ideas which was never implied. The only point I wanted to drive to the gentleman who said he will offer free training, that any* service offered freely* has* no value* in *our society*. If someone needs *to do charit*y, then do it a community that probably deserves, not to a bunch of software professionals, who has means and ways of paying for it. I am of this firm opinion and from my own little experience in the past. I suggested student community because an average student needs to depend on scholarships or parent's income to learn something more. If there are communities outside students, that deserves please go ahead. I *never made an exclusive statement *of schools and colleges. Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging* 25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending his personal time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would take 1-3 months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has his economics right! It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort. Kenneth or anyone in this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am not able to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing this off as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's *commercial in square brackets* in the subject of the mail. However if a few more experienced hands like Kenneth comes forward and creates a few more Python developers it would help the community. This I am very clear. He is offering a service, and he is expecting to be paid for it! It's no different from a service offered by some one else or by you or me. From vid at svaksha.com Mon May 16 08:40:24 2011 From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 06:40:24 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Too many contradictions and strawman arguments in you mail, so here goes... On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:18, Ramdas S wrote: > I am sorry to say, but I guess you are reading too much into what I had > written, and using your vivid imagination to come with ideas which was never > implied. > > The only point I wanted to drive to the gentleman who said he will offer > free training, that any* service offered freely* has* no value* in *our > society*. If someone needs *to do charit*y, then do it a community that > probably deserves, not to a bunch of software professionals, who has means > and ways of paying for it. I am of this firm opinion and from my own little > experience in the past. I suggested student community because an average > student needs to depend on scholarships or parent's income to learn > something more. If there are communities outside students, that deserves > please go ahead. I *never made an exclusive statement *of schools and > colleges. From, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/bangpypers/2011-May/006274.html, "I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all" -- so Mr Rao, was offering it to 'all' not a "bunch of software professionals", which was your misinterpretation. > Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging* > 25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending > his personal > time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would take > 1-3 ?months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has his > economics right! > > It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort. ?Kenneth ?or anyone in > this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am not able > to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing this off > as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's *commercial > in square brackets* in the subject of the mail. > > However if a few more experienced hands like Kenneth comes forward and > creates a few more Python developers it would help the community. This I am > very clear. > > He is offering ?a service, and he is expecting to be paid for it! It's no > different from a service offered by some one else or by you or me. Strawman. The statement "community that deserves" was yours, not mine. And, fwiw, I had "set aside the 'free vs non-free debate' (read, not commented anything about it in my mail), so please read mails properly before making so many strawman arguments which are so many that it would end up wasting list members time, so do excuse me for withdrawing from the pointlessness. -- vid ? http://svaksha.com ? From lawgon at gmail.com Mon May 16 08:47:37 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:17:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305528457.1994.23.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 11:48 +0530, Ramdas S wrote: > Kenneth as I understand is *offering nothing free*. He is charging* > 25,000*for mentoring someone to be a Django/Python developer spending > his personal > time, energy and sharing his vast experience. He says exercise would > take > 1-3 months. Personally I feel he's charging low, but I am sure he has > his > economics right! Introductory offer > > It *does not in anyway make it a community* effort. Kenneth or > anyone in > this list has any such notion, or even making any such claims. I am > not able > to understand where you formed such an opinion that we are passing > this off > as a community effort. No we are not, and as far as I see there's > *commercial > in square brackets* in the subject of the mail. and to set the record straight, I have conducted innumerable workshops in python/django (and a whole raft of other topics), usually free, sometimes with accommodation and food provided, at other times even with travel provided and at other times entirely at my own expense. And have mentored very many people (totally free), and none of those people are walking around bare footed. From all this I have learned three things: 1. Quality training is takes up a lot of time and effort - no one can afford to do this free. 2. Unfortunately in our country very few people appreciate things that are free - and even fewer people really make much effort when doing something for free. At the most they will put up a few slides they have shown somewhere else, demo a few things and answer a few questions. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From ramdaz at gmail.com Mon May 16 09:01:26 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:31:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Oursql Message-ID: Is there anyone in the group, any experience to report on Oursql 1]http://packages.python.org/oursql/ We are considering using to mine and extract a lot of information from huge complex MySQl database with a few hundred tables spanning several relationships. Someone recommended it on IRC, saying it's better than Mysql.db On the hindsight it looks cool. Couldn't find any bad comments on the web site. Seems not many have played with it. Nothing wrong with Mysqldb, but some crazy unicode errors keeps cropping up once in a while. Oursql seems fine with it. Looking for a second opinion. I am looking some reasons if any not to use it., or some more strong recommendation so that we can take the plunge or stick to Mysqldb. -- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065 From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 09:08:54 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:38:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:28 AM, ? ?????? ? wrote: > Free software reverses all > cognitive bias'es (with respect to the individual's a(p)ttitude to > learning) and being an employer yourself, I hope you dont really mean > that people outside a University/College environment are not a worthy > community. Has it crossed your mind that the OP (Kenneth) offering the > training hardly would fall in the community category that you > claim/believe deserves support. This thread went OT a long time ago > but I didnt expect to see an ageism bias on a Python list. Its just > not funny. > Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think you can reverse? -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From vid at svaksha.com Mon May 16 10:11:30 2011 From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:11:30 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 07:08, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a > computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the > population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think you > can reverse? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#Reasoning -- vid ? http://svaksha.com ? From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 13:10:13 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:40:13 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 1:41 PM, ? ?????? ? wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 07:08, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > > > Free software would also entail that the user of the free software owns a > > computer. That means that would easily disregard a large majority of the > > population in our country. What kind of cognitive bias you really think > you > > can reverse? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#Reasoning > > Great "All Weather Argument", doesn't answer the question though. http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From abpillai at gmail.com Mon May 16 13:44:30 2011 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:14:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, srinivasa rao wrote: > hi > I have 5 years exp using Python/Django i want to give free training to all > please contact > bye > srini > > The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing to pay me to teach me Django ? -- --Anand From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 13:49:03 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:19:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing > to pay me to teach me Django ? > > hehehe. You could start from here! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_(film) http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From satyaakam at gmail.com Mon May 16 14:55:09 2011 From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:25:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is willing > to pay me to teach me Django ? > i want to put my hat in the circle and pay for getting services , i am ok with Kenneth and you , will talk about the project details offline. -Satya From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Mon May 16 15:29:21 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:59:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @? ?????? ? he is saying the truth in above thread .debate of free vs non free going in a wrong path. so don't forget what is aim ? > free django training is open , but if some want pay donation is welcomed! >. DATE:19/6/2011 , venue :USO house,New Delhi > for outsider we may launch till online cloud interface to learn On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:25 PM, satyaakam goswami wrote: > > > > The price wars have started... Come on, is there someone now who is > willing > > to pay me to teach me Django ? > > > > i want to put my hat in the circle and pay for getting services , i am ok > with Kenneth and you , will talk about the project details offline. > > -Satya > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From satyaakam at gmail.com Mon May 16 15:40:33 2011 From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:10:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > free django training is open , but if some want pay donation is welcomed! > >. DATE:19/6/2011 , venue :USO house,New Delhi > > for outsider we may launch till online cloud interface to learn > Details please course contents , contact hours etc.. appreciated . -Satya From noufal at gmail.com Mon May 16 15:59:26 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:29:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: (vikas ruhil's message of "Sun, 15 May 2011 16:41:51 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> vikas ruhil writes: >> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as > open-source > it sounds good ! [...] Open source is not necessarily free of cost. -- Behind every great man, there is a woman -- urging him on. -- Harry Mudd, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3 From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:18:32 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:48:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: Do not reply to trolls! On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > vikas ruhil writes: > > >> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as > > open-source > it sounds good ! > > [...] > > Open source is not necessarily free of cost. > > > -- > Behind every great man, there is a woman -- urging him on. > -- Harry Mudd, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3 > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From satyaakam at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:24:56 2011 From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:54:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > vikas ruhil writes: > > >> @srinivasaenergy nice ,( city venue )? sure we team -up to train as > > open-source > it sounds good ! > > [...] > > Open source is not necessarily free of cost. > +1 , i think we have lost the whole conversation again just because of the word *free* , as i am still waiting from Vikas and others on the contents and contact hour details , my hunch is they are most probably talking about one session of may be half or one day , which we all do . so the confusion i think started by mixing what Kenneth has to offer which is much more rigrous and long term programme and which comes with a Job guarantee , which i think takes lots of guts to put ones reputation at stake ,again i think he must have thought through all of this. my stand as of now is i am ready to pay for long term programmes. i am ok with conducting or attending half a day or one day sessions for advocacy free or paid . -Satya fossevents.in From satyaakam at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:28:29 2011 From: satyaakam at gmail.com (satyaakam goswami) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:58:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Do not reply to trolls! my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see ..... -Satya From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 16:52:48 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:22:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software Message-ID: I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately. Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind was instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I should post it here. Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there are many people better than me. Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject. 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way to go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to know where they are headed. 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is the panacea for all "humanities Illness". Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for Google. Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google. Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the Open Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more today). If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google) (and a small minority out of SF) 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small minority other wise. 3)And the rest of the Open source Guru's are writing software in the hope that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2). So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, Please Enlighten me? -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From gora at mimirtech.com Mon May 16 16:58:54 2011 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:28:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately. > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come > to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind was > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I should > post it here. [...] It seems that your rant derives from a complete mis-conception of what "Free" and "Open" means in this context. However, this is not the right place for such an argument. Please take it elsewhere. Regards, Gora From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:01:18 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:31:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for your view and reply. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in > > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately. > > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. > Come > > to think of it, I should make a blog post of this. However since my mind > was > > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I > should > > post it here. > [...] > > It seems that your rant derives from a complete mis-conception > of what "Free" and "Open" means in this context. > > However, this is not the right place for such an argument. Please > take it elsewhere. > > Regards, > Gora > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From vikasruhil06 at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:18:47 2011 From: vikasruhil06 at gmail.com (vikas ruhil) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 20:48:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: > course outline is cs-201-python/django-summer-2011 1) Understanding django & install setup , basic usage 2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better) 3) Google app engine 4) Creating Facebook app using GAE +django 5) Web server set up & usage 6) Database setup & usage 7) ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates (for views) + Forms + Much more suggestion welcomed if anything related django stuff ?. anything else to add or someone want to advise . any mistakes please inform duly appreciated for that ! Resources & course-ware blog:- http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com/2011/05/cs-201-pythondjango-summer-2011.html thanks everyone for their valuable time on this thread , thanks for a nice debate ,comments! On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM, satyaakam goswami wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > Do not reply to trolls! > > > my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see ..... > > -Satya > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lorddaemon at gmail.com Mon May 16 19:42:30 2011 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 23:12:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You missed 4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho) 5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37 Signals, Thoughtbot) Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it viable? Yes it is. What's the problem? On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately. > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. Come > to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my mind > was > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I > should > post it here. > > Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there are > many people better than me. > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. > > Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject. > > 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way to > go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to know > where they are headed. > 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is the > panacea for all "humanities Illness". > > Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for > Google. > Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google. > Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the > Open > Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus > Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more > today). > > If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San > Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either > 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google) > (and > a small minority out of SF) > 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small > minority other wise. > 3)And the rest of the Open source Guru's are writing software in the hope > that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2). > > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, > Please Enlighten me? > > > > -- > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > exceptions?. *Oliver > Wendell Holmes* > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 20:21:14 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 23:51:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Sidu Ponnappa wrote: > You missed > 4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source > product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho) > Great! so what percentage of the worldwide revenue of MySql, redhat, pentaho etc etc you own? Next to Zilch! > 5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you > popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37 Signals, > Thoughtbot) > So again the same problem above? > Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that > earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it > viable? Yes it is. > I agree. But what money of your so called business model is coming to India? Nothing! > > What's the problem? > As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always remain a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the entire software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software exports of the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great software nation. Thank you again gentleman. > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated in > > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject separately. > > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. > Come > > to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my > mind > > was > > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I > > should > > post it here. > > > > Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there > are > > many people better than me. > > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. > > > > Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject. > > > > 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way > to > > go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to > know > > where they are headed. > > 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is > the > > panacea for all "humanities Illness". > > > > Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for > > Google. > > Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google. > > Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the > > Open > > Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus > > Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more > > today). > > > > If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is San > > Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either > > 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google) > > (and > > a small minority out of SF) > > 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small > > minority other wise. > > 3)And the rest of the Open source Guru's are writing software in the > hope > > that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2). > > > > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? > Please, > > Please Enlighten me? > > > > > > > > -- > > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > > exceptions?. *Oliver > > Wendell Holmes* > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon May 16 21:11:14 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 00:41:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> On 16-May-11, at 11:51 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: [snip] > As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always > remain > a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the > entire > software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software > exports of > the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great > software nation. I've heard all sorts of arguments against FOSS*, but the idea that it is a moral/nationalistic imperative to charge for software? This one is new. Kudos. I assume you are walking the walk and paying google for that gmail account, so that nobody gets the idea that you support any business model that depends on giving away free services. -Taj. * Many of them are valid, but this one is not in their august company. From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 21:29:29 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 00:59:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: > > I've heard all sorts of arguments against FOSS*, but the idea that it is a > moral/nationalistic imperative to charge for software? This one is new. > Kudos. > I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I say anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged? Don't put words into my mouth just for your arguments sake. > > I assume you are walking the walk and paying google for that gmail account, > so that nobody gets the idea that you support any business model that > depends on giving away free services. > By the way I do pay Google for some of my accounts. This particular email is free, but I pay for domain and web services. But that was only incidental. I would love to continue using googles's free service and i do! So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have no right to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying Google? Don't be ridiculous. Carefully read the whole thread again and let us talk. http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon May 16 21:42:17 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:12:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> On 17-May-11, at 12:59 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: [snip] > I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I > say > anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged? > Don't put > words into my mouth just for your arguments sake. I could certainly quote bits of your own posts back to you, but it's a waste of my time. > So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have > no right > to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying > Google? Yes. I understand your core point - first start making money, then talk about giving away the fruits of your time and effort when the basic needs are taken care of. You haven't framed it very coherently though, and you haven't really addressed the points others have made. There are plenty of people making a living off giving away software, and I think it's okay for Indians to aspire to it too. -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Mon May 16 22:02:04 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:32:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent" manner, so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect to the subject of this thread? On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:12 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > On 17-May-11, at 12:59 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > [snip] > > I think you must read this thread very carefully again. Where did I say >> anything against FOSS? Where did I say software must be charged? Don't put >> words into my mouth just for your arguments sake. >> > > I could certainly quote bits of your own posts back to you, but it's a > waste of my time. > > > So what is the point you are making? Are you suggesting that I have no >> right >> to make the arguments I am making because i am paying/not paying Google? >> > > Yes. > > I understand your core point - first start making money, then talk about > giving away the fruits of your time and effort when the basic needs are > taken care of. You haven't framed it very coherently though, and you haven't > really addressed the points others have made. There are plenty of people > making a living off giving away software, and I think it's okay for Indians > to aspire to it too. > > -Taj. > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From lorddaemon at gmail.com Mon May 16 22:11:07 2011 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:41:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, Please Enlighten me? I found your first mail rather offensive to begin with, and I find your response even more so now that you've decided to get personal. Clearly you consider yourself very l33t if you choose to address perfect strangers on a mailing list in this manner so I bow to your superior judgement and derisive tone. I'm not going to continue this conversation beyond this except to point out that I run a company that is making use of approach 5 in a manner that both my accountants and I find quite satisfactory. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Sidu Ponnappa >wrote: > > > You missed > > 4) Found a company to sell services and support around your open source > > product. (MySQL, RedHat, Pentaho) > > > > Great! so what percentage of the worldwide revenue of MySql, redhat, > pentaho > etc etc you own? Next to Zilch! > > > > > > 5) Found a company whose commercial offerings (services/products) you > > popularise by bouncing off the popularity of your open source (37 > Signals, > > Thoughtbot) > > > > > So again the same problem above? > > > > > Does a business model exist around open source? Yes it does (note that > > earning an exceptional salary *is* a business model in my book). Is it > > viable? Yes it is. > > > > I agree. But what money of your so called business model is coming to > India? > Nothing! > > > > > > > What's the problem? > > > > As long as people like you don't see the problem, India will always remain > a second class power in the software world. Do you know that the entire > software exports of India today is only 5% of the total software exports of > the world? Thanks to great people like you, we call ourselves a great > software nation. > Thank you again gentleman. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Santosh Rajan > > wrote: > > > > > I have been reading a few threads on this forum, and even participated > in > > > them. However I thought I must write my views on this subject > separately. > > > Also before I start my tirade, I want to make a couple of disclaimers. > > Come > > > to think of it, I should mak e a blog post of this. However since my > > mind > > > was > > > instigated by this subject, on this forum, I only think it is right I > > > should > > > post it here. > > > > > > Disclaimer 1. I am not the best programmer around here. I am sure there > > are > > > many people better than me. > > > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. > > > > > > Having said the above let me make a few observations on this subject. > > > > > > 1) I have seen a few "immature idiots" who think open source is the way > > to > > > go. Granted, they are good meaning young people, however they need to > > know > > > where they are headed. > > > 2) Then there are the "intellectual ignoranti" who think Open Source is > > the > > > panacea for all "humanities Illness". > > > > > > Let us start with Guido Van Rossum. Where does he work? He works for > > > Google. > > > Brad Fitz the original author of OpenID works for Google. > > > Let me tell you that the above, are only a couple of examples. All the > > > Open > > > Source Guru's of today work for some company or another. Even Linus > > > Torvalds. He worked for a company called Transmeta (Which is no more > > > today). > > > > > > If you take the birthplace of all (most of all) startups today, It is > San > > > Fransisco, and all your beloved Open Source Guru's are either > > > 1) Working for one of those BIG companies based in SF( includes Google) > > > (and > > > a small minority out of SF) > > > 2) The other Guru's are working in a startup based in SF and a small > > > minority other wise. > > > 3)And the rest of the Open source Guru's are writing software in the > > hope > > > that they will be bought over by no (1) or no (2). > > > > > > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? > > Please, > > > Please Enlighten me? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > > > > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > > > exceptions?. *Oliver > > > Wendell Holmes* > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > exceptions?. *Oliver > Wendell Holmes* > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon May 16 22:29:09 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:59:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 17-May-11, at 1:32 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent" > manner, > so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect > to the > subject of this thread? When you write something like this: > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, > Please Enlighten me? I have a hard time winnowing sense out of that string of words, due to my limited reading and comprehension abilities. What does this have to do with open source people in San Francisco? I can only make broad assumptions about your intentions, especially when you later talk about the size of India's software market. In light of the above, I (and others) would be grateful if you made an effort to clearly state your case. -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 02:52:28 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 06:22:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically. "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between San Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project". Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously! On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > On 17-May-11, at 1:32 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > In that case why don't you explain your point in a very "coherent" manner, >> so that we lesser mortals get it. What are you saying with respect to the >> subject of this thread? >> > > When you write something like this: > > > > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? > Please, > > Please Enlighten me? > > I have a hard time winnowing sense out of that string of words, due to my > limited reading and comprehension abilities. What does this have to do with > open source people in San Francisco? I can only make broad assumptions about > your intentions, especially when you later talk about the size of India's > software market. > > In light of the above, I (and others) would be grateful if you made an > effort to clearly state your case. > > > -Taj. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com Tue May 17 03:21:46 2011 From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 06:51:46 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: hi Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to attend I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i would like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can save money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some special class to students . especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for students . thanks & regards srinivasa On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:48 PM, vikas ruhil wrote: > > course outline is cs-201-python/django-summer-2011 > 1) Understanding django & install setup , basic usage > 2) Web development (django vs wep2py , who is better) > 3) Google app engine > 4) Creating Facebook app using GAE +django > 5) Web server set up & usage > 6) Database setup & usage > 7) ORM (Object Relational Mapping) + Templates > (for views) + Forms + Much more > > suggestion welcomed if anything related django stuff ?. anything else to > add or someone want to advise . > any mistakes please inform duly appreciated for that ! > > Resources & course-ware blog:- > > http://learnhackstuff.blogspot.com/2011/05/cs-201-pythondjango-summer-2011.html > thanks everyone for their valuable time on this thread , thanks for a nice > debate ,comments! > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM, satyaakam goswami >wrote: > > > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Santosh Rajan > > wrote: > > > > > Do not reply to trolls! > > > > > > my theory is trolls! can be made to commit :-) , lets see ..... > > > > -Satya > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lawgon at gmail.com Tue May 17 03:49:11 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:19:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 20:22 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. this is obvious - I suggest you stick to things you are an expert on. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From lawgon at gmail.com Tue May 17 03:53:22 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:23:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [commercial] python/django training In-Reply-To: References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: <1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 06:51 +0530, srinivasa rao wrote: > Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to > attend > I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i > would > like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can > save > money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some > special class to students . > especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for > students why the commercial tag on your mail? Please start a separate thread for your efforts. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 03:54:49 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:24:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost> References: <1305596951.1994.66.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Thanks for your great viewpoint Guru. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 20:22 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. > > this is obvious - I suggest you stick to things you are an expert on. > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From ramdaz at gmail.com Tue May 17 04:10:55 2011 From: ramdaz at gmail.com (Ramdas S) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:40:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: > Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically. > > "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup > Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between San > Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project". > > Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously! > > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when you make such generalisation, and spins new theories You say Startup company or are you meaning a Startup company focused only on open source. If you are generalising startups, it's completely ridiculous, almost all successful Indian software companies were startups once upon a time, and so are in all countries outside US. So I presume you are saying open source companies/projects. For many years US and North America used to be the biggest market, and the American influence was definitely there. But things are changing. As far as Open Source go. Here's my understanding. You can make money off Free and Open Source software by merely using them, or helping others to use them effectively, and then reducing their software acquisition/TCO costs. You d not have to contribute code or have a project 80-90% of all business(money) on FOSS comes through this basic principle Companies such as IBM, HP (IBM, HP makes in excess of a few billion dollars through this model) and thousands of systems integrators across the world, including a very small outfit which I run fairly successfully uses this model to make money month on month. Some of us (who work or run such small outfits) may not be contributing code or launching new projects and are not famous, but is making a living from Free and Open Source software building a services model around it. That's the beauty of an economy around FOSS. Finally on the success quotient, I see more startups winding up than succeeding in tech space. And this is irrespective whether their business model is build around open source, or closed source or whatever. From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 04:27:15 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:57:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Ramdas S wrote: > > Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically. > > > > "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or Startup > > Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between > San > > Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project". > > > > Ya ya, this is hilarious. But think about it. Seriously! > > > > > > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when you make such > generalisation, and spins new theories > Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again. http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From venkat83 at gmail.com Tue May 17 04:45:36 2011 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:15:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when you make such > > generalisation, and spins new theories > > > > Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you > understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again. > @Santosh: you need some humility when you talk in forums to gather respect for your views. (i dont wanna sound like a Bigdaddy here, but you need to show some maturity in your claims/theories). Bangpypers has some of the best pythonistas in India and people are watching you. Most of your assertions do not have any valid logic behind it; FOSS/OSS has helped many institutions a lot - you may want to check out lugc(chennai lug) where some of the volunteers have helped many colleges install Linux and impart trainings to sysadmins etc and made the community stronger. OSS doesnt mean you have to do a commit; i never did a commit in the Python source code, but had looked at many important pieces in the peephole optimization code, and understood things. This was a turning point in my career as i got into something totally different than what i do in my day job. I learnt a lot and also taught some; hanging around IRC is also a great way to help the community. Btw, i liked your theory of inverse-square-rule ;) but i dont subscribe to it fully. -V From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 04:55:57 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:25:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what is going on. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Venkatraman S wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > > Ridiculous is the right word not hilarious, when you make such > > > generalisation, and spins new theories > > > > > > > Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous what I said was, and I am glad you > > understood what I was talking about. Thanks Again. > > > > @Santosh: you need some humility when you talk in forums to gather respect > for your views. > (i dont wanna sound like a Bigdaddy here, but you need to show some > maturity > in your claims/theories). > Bangpypers has some of the best pythonistas in India and people are > watching > you. > Most of your assertions do not have any valid logic behind it; FOSS/OSS has > helped many institutions a lot - you > may want to check out lugc(chennai lug) where some of the volunteers have > helped many colleges > install Linux and impart trainings to sysadmins etc and made the community > stronger. > > OSS doesnt mean you have to do a commit; i never did a commit in the Python > source code, but had looked > at many important pieces in the peephole optimization code, and understood > things. This was a turning point in > my career as i got into something totally different than what i do in my > day > job. I learnt a lot and also taught some; > hanging around IRC is also a great way to help the community. > > Btw, i liked your theory of inverse-square-rule ;) but i dont subscribe to > it fully. > > -V > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From venkat83 at gmail.com Tue May 17 04:59:34 2011 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:29:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble > effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian > software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what is > going on. > > You are holding 'something' and claim that its a mirror :) From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 05:12:36 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 08:42:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Venkatraman S wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > Hey, thanks for the good words, and I entirely agree with you. My humble > > effort here is to try and put a mirror in the face of the entire Indian > > software Industry. They need to look into the mirror and understand what > is > > going on. > > > > > You are holding 'something' and claim that its a mirror :) > hehehe. Atleast I am trying hard. http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From jace at pobox.com Tue May 17 06:27:02 2011 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 09:57:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com> On 02-May-2011, at 12:35 PM, Baiju M wrote: > Flask has one OpenID extension: > http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/ +1 for the Flask-OpenID plugin. I just used it and it works like a charm. You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies. Kiran From jace at pobox.com Tue May 17 06:40:36 2011 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:10:36 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: <87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> References: <87bozh5pj8.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> Message-ID: On 05-May-2011, at 5:26 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Flask - Young and lightweight. Flexible with components (you can mix and > match parts). Very well documented, good community. > > There's a bunch of offshoots of Zope (which was one of the earliest > successfuly Python projects) like Grok, web2py etc. Haven't used any of > them. > > I don't know anything about Pyramid and Pylons. I've used Pyramid in its earlier incarnation as Repoze.BFG and liked it very much, but that was before Flask arrived on the scene. Now I use Flask for everything. I have a major concern with Flask and SQLAlchemy that makes it hard to recommend them to others -- they mix up configuration with code. Take, for example, the Flask-OAuth extension as documented here: http://packages.python.org/Flask-OAuth/ The documentation outlines Twitter integration. If you look at the sequence of the code, the OAuth handler must be provided a consumer_key and consumer_secret -- pieces of configuration -- before the handler code is written. Configuration has to be loaded while the module is being imported, not afterwards as a separate configure action. SQLAlchemy declarative mode requires a Base metadata object to be shared by all models. This means you can't import models from two different sources. SQLAlchemy has a mixin syntax to get around this, but this is cumbersome. This makes it really hard to reuse code. Kiran From noufal at gmail.com Tue May 17 07:49:15 2011 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:19:15 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software. Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful. -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 07:53:17 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:23:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything??? On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software. > Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a > healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful. > > -- > ~noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From benignbala at gmail.com Tue May 17 07:56:06 2011 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:26:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything??? > This is from your disclaimer: Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. and that's what Noufal said. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 07:59:22 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:29:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!??? On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything??? > > > > This is from your disclaimer: > > Disclaimer 2. I am not an expert on the subject of free Vs paid. > > and that's what Noufal said. Thanks > > -- > Thank you > Balachandran Sivakumar > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From benignbala at gmail.com Tue May 17 08:04:25 2011 From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:34:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!??? > Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e. your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind you of your own statement. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. Mail: benignbala at gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Tue May 17 08:08:48 2011 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:38:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id In-Reply-To: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com> References: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > On 02-May-2011, at 12:35 PM, Baiju M wrote: > >> Flask has one OpenID extension: >> http://packages.python.org/Flask-OpenID/ > > +1 for the Flask-OpenID plugin. I just used it and it works like a charm. > > You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies. What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ? Regards, Baiju M From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 08:11:21 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:41:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting? There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see that you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!??? > > > > Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul > language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without > any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e. > your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind > you of your own statement. Thanks > > > -- > Thank you > Balachandran Sivakumar > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue May 17 08:47:42 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:17:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Intention of open source/free software is to save the cost, not to generate revenue. You can save the cost by using it out-of-box software or you can customize it to your need so that you will not produce the complete clone of it. My strong point is that "Generating money is left to a business/individual". People need money to survive.. No one offer free money/fuel/electricity/food etc. The open source developer passionate about doing the things which they are interested. Its like someone teaching to poor students or illiterates on week-end or end of the day after busy work for free of cost. No one pays for Django/Rails as a web framework, they are still open source & free. No one ask money for doing a interesting plug-in or library for these frameworks. When business wants to create a web site using these framework, business pays for that. It is called consulting or out-sourcing that is what Ponnappa has mentioned. Open source is not a market.. It is a choice. You choose it or ignore it with your own wisdom. I would happy to invest in Visual Studio for 1500 USD than programming in SharpDevelop. I would very happy to use SVN/Mercurial free than buying a TFS stack for 50000 USD. I feel more productive with my customized emacs than using TextMate and investing on Mac's. So coming back to your observation, you missed one more point. There are matured business/individual who can decide when to go for open source/closed-commercial tools by choice. I least bothered about 'idiot' or 'ignorant' you have mentioned.. I would advise them to learn first than discussing in this forum.. PS: OP should calm down and mind his words!! Regards, Gopalakrishnan Subramani On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting? > > There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see that > you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul. > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < > benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan > > wrote: > > > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!??? > > > > > > > Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul > > language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without > > any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e. > > your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind > > you of your own statement. Thanks > > > > > > -- > > Thank you > > Balachandran Sivakumar > > > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > > > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com > > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > exceptions?. *Oliver > Wendell Holmes* > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 08:59:37 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:29:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed! Thanks! On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani < gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com> wrote: > Intention of open source/free software is to save the cost, not to generate > revenue. You can save the cost by using it out-of-box software or you can > customize it to your need so that you will not produce the complete clone > of > it. > > My strong point is that "Generating money is left to a > business/individual". > > > People need money to survive.. No one offer free > money/fuel/electricity/food > etc. The open source developer passionate about doing the things which they > are interested. Its like someone teaching to poor students or illiterates > on > week-end or end of the day after busy work for free of cost. > > No one pays for Django/Rails as a web framework, they are still open source > & free. No one ask money for doing a interesting plug-in or library for > these frameworks. When business wants to create a web site using these > framework, business pays for that. It is called consulting or out-sourcing > that is what Ponnappa has mentioned. > > Open source is not a market.. It is a choice. You choose it or ignore it > with your own wisdom. > > I would happy to invest in Visual Studio for 1500 USD than programming in > SharpDevelop. I would very happy to use SVN/Mercurial free than buying a > TFS > stack for 50000 USD. I feel more productive with my customized emacs than > using TextMate and investing on Mac's. > > So coming back to your observation, you missed one more point. > > There are matured business/individual who can decide when to go for open > source/closed-commercial tools by choice. I least bothered about 'idiot' or > 'ignorant' you have mentioned.. I would advise them to learn first than > discussing in this forum.. > > PS: > > OP should calm down and mind his words!! > > Regards, > > Gopalakrishnan Subramani > > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > Ya okay, so I agree with whatever you say. So what are you suggesting? > > > > There are a lot of very intelligent people around here, and I can see > that > > you are one of them, my apologies for being a lesser brain damaged soul. > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Balachandran Sivakumar < > > benignbala at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Santosh Rajan > > > wrote: > > > > And ya, and you still don't have anything to say for yourself!??? > > > > > > > > > > Well, I normally don't reply when people use strong and foul > > > language(No, don't ask me to quote it; the whole list knows) without > > > any valid reason. Now that you forgot what you initially said(i.e. > > > your disclaimer 2) and you asked for a quote, I had to reply to remind > > > you of your own statement. Thanks > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thank you > > > Balachandran Sivakumar > > > > > > Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. > > > > > > Mail: benignbala at gmail.com > > > Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > BangPypers mailing list > > > BangPypers at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > > exceptions?. *Oliver > > Wendell Holmes* > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From srinivasaenergy at gmail.com Tue May 17 09:13:40 2011 From: srinivasaenergy at gmail.com (srinivasa rao) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 12:43:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] python/django training In-Reply-To: <1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost> References: <87oc329269.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain> <1305597202.1994.67.camel@localhost> Message-ID: hi sorry i had not edited that tag please updated it thanks srinivasa On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 06:51 +0530, srinivasa rao wrote: > > Thanks to all your responce but we need to plan with out fail to > > attend > > I have real time experience on python and share my experience sure i > > would > > like to take events for collage students or at colleges better we can > > save > > money but we need to take permission from college and i will take some > > special class to students . > > especially to professionals we need 2 days workshop and 1 month for > > students > > why the commercial tag on your mail? Please start a separate thread for > your efforts. > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From jace at pobox.com Tue May 17 12:24:12 2011 From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:54:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id In-Reply-To: References: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com> Message-ID: <86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com> On 17-May-2011, at 11:38 AM, Baiju M wrote: >> You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily dependent on thread-local proxies. > > What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ? Nothing. It just means that the code won't run automatically in Pyramid. Kiran From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue May 17 13:02:38 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:32:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Pyramid and open-id In-Reply-To: <86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com> References: <048FF878-36E0-42A1-B8F3-F7B3BC3A0AA2@pobox.com> <86B8DFAC-257D-473D-9BCA-BED4C23BFEEF@pobox.com> Message-ID: I don't know what you mean by automatic.. The thread local helps to have global variables per thread so that it preserves the changes made in one thread should not affect another global variable in another thread.. In Pylons, request & context (may be many other stuffs) are treated as a global variables, they can be accessed from anywhere just by importing them.. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: > On 17-May-2011, at 11:38 AM, Baiju M wrote: > > >> You may need to port this code for Pyramid, though, as Flask is heavily > dependent on thread-local proxies. > > > > What is the problem with "thread-local proxies" ? > > Nothing. It just means that the code won't run automatically in Pyramid. > > Kiran > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From steve at lonetwin.net Tue May 17 11:14:09 2011 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 14:44:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net> On 05/16/2011 08:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > [...snip...] > So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, > Please Enlighten me? > > /me thinks somebody just discovered a document online describing the art of trolling and now is aspiring to master it. It is fairly obvious given the first post and the subsequent responses. cheers, - steve -- random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 13:17:07 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:47:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net> References: <4DD23C61.10508@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: Yes Indeed, you are right. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:44 PM, steve wrote: > On 05/16/2011 08:22 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > >> [...snip...] >> >> So my question is, what shit are you talking about based in India? Please, >> Please Enlighten me? >> >> >> > /me thinks somebody just discovered a document online describing the art of > trolling and now is aspiring to master it. It is fairly obvious given the > first post and the subsequent responses. > > cheers, > - steve > > > > -- > random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ > what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Tue May 17 13:16:58 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:46:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 17-May-11, at 6:22 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Ok let me tell you the whole story scientifically. > > "The chances of anyone succeeding with an Open Source Project or > Startup > Company is inversely proportional to the square of the distance > between San > Fransisco and the location of this OpenSource/Startup Project". Okay, let's assume this to be true. Now we need to determine the causality. What are the possible reasons? Here are some: 1. A person in India will fail at trying to create a business around open source, but is more likely to succeed at precisely the same endeavour, if they move to the Valley. It is the environment that counts, not the person. 2. People outside the Valley are incapable of creating/running that kind of business, because they don't know how to do it right. Moving to the Valley might increase their chances, since they will have better access to people who can teach or inspire them. 3. People who are already in the Valley are inherently superior, and us little people in India are wasting our time trying to emulate them. These are three possible hypotheses. What are yours? -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 14:05:26 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:35:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Hey, great argument, but I have some riders. Atleast, finally, I think we are on the same page. First of all, let us get one thing out of the way. Success in software/hardware, no matter where you are, entirely depends on on how passionate you are about it. We can't quantify a person's passion for some thing. Apple's success, is Steve Job's passion for whatever he was creating. Having got that out of the way, let us try to answer some of your questions. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > > 1. A person in India will fail at trying to create a business around open > source, but is more likely to succeed at precisely the same endeavour, if > they move to the Valley. It is the environment that counts, not the person. > Right! The environment counts a lot. Not the person. If you are based in India, you are already starting to bat with 3 wickets down viz a viz San Francisco, (If I can humbly give a cricket anology). > > 2. People outside the Valley are incapable of creating/running that kind of > business, because they don't know how to do it right. Moving to the Valley > might increase their chances, since they will have better access to people > who can teach or inspire them. > Wrong and Right!. People outside the valley are definitely capable of creating/running business, but they have a great disadvantage. Their competitors based in the valley, have a competitive edge/eco system,that the poor great guys outside the valley can't match. > > 3. People who are already in the Valley are inherently superior, and us > little people in India are wasting our time trying to emulate them. > Ha ha!!! well well!!, I can't answer this question! But let me tell you a fact I know. Sunder Pichai, and Vic Gondotra are Great Indians who work in the Valley for Google. > > These are three possible hypotheses. What are yours? Forget about your three possible hypothesis . I hope I have answered your questions above! > > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Tue May 17 14:43:51 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:13:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> On 17-May-11, at 5:35 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: [snip] > First of all, let us get one thing out of the way. Success in > software/hardware, no matter where you are, entirely depends on on > how > passionate you are about it. We can't quantify a person's passion > for some > thing. Apple's success, is Steve Job's passion for whatever he was > creating. > Fair enough. > Having got that out of the way, let us try to answer some of your > questions. > They weren't really questions. You've outlined a correlation and now I am asking you to provide the causation. > Right! The environment counts a lot. Not the person. If you are > based in > India, you are already starting to bat with 3 wickets down viz a viz > San > Francisco, (If I can humbly give a cricket anology). > This is true no matter what sort of technology business you start. What is different about business models that are FOSS-driven? > Wrong and Right!. People outside the valley are definitely capable of > creating/running business, but they have a great disadvantage. Their > competitors based in the valley, have a competitive edge/eco > system,that the > poor great guys outside the valley can't match. I agree. So what is the solution, other than moving to the Valley? > Forget about your three possible hypothesis . I hope I have answered > your > questions above! I think you've misunderstood. I'm still not clear on the following: 1. We've established that tech startups are at a disadvantage when based outside SV. Why is this so? Specifically, what is different about FOSS-model startups? 2. Given that we are not all moving to California, what are our options? I assume you are recommending against a FOSS-model startup. What sort of business models do you recommend instead? Why? 3. At least one person on this thread has pointed out that his Indian company is making a profit while working on FOSS. I know of a few others. Do you not recommend that others attempt to follow their example? Why? -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 16:42:55 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:12:55 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or pose is right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below? 1. We've established that tech startups are at a disadvantage when based > outside SV. Why is this so? Specifically, what is different about FOSS-model > startups? > > 2. Given that we are not all moving to California, what are our options? I > assume you are recommending against a FOSS-model startup. What sort of > business models do you recommend instead? Why? > > 3. At least one person on this thread has pointed out that his Indian > company is making a profit while working on FOSS. I know of a few others. Do > you not recommend that others attempt to follow their example? Why? > > > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Tue May 17 16:53:28 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:23:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> On 17-May-11, at 8:12 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or > pose is > right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below? Huh? You started this thread, with the intention of modifying the behaviour of "young immature idiots" and "intellectual ignoranti". You've got us listening. State your case. What should we be doing instead? -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Tue May 17 17:02:12 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:32:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall admit defeat and rest my case! On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > On 17-May-11, at 8:12 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > great! so let us assume for arguments sake, that whatever you say or pose >> is >> right! What answers do you have have for the questions posed below? >> > > Huh? You started this thread, with the intention of modifying the behaviour > of "young immature idiots" and "intellectual ignoranti". You've got us > listening. State your case. What should we be doing instead? > > > -Taj. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Tue May 17 17:04:14 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:34:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 17-May-11, at 8:32 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall > admit > defeat and rest my case! Same. And I apologize to all for my part in this trainwreck. -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Wed May 18 04:40:18 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 08:10:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for all students of computer science, all over the world. Attleast they need to now there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > On 17-May-11, at 8:32 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > You still haven't seen the case I am making? In which case I shall admit >> defeat and rest my case! >> > > Same. And I apologize to all for my part in this trainwreck. > > > -Taj. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From lawgon at gmail.com Wed May 18 08:11:07 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 11:41:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <1305699067.1994.93.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 17:35 +0530, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Hey, great argument, but I have some riders. Atleast, finally, I think > we > are on the same page. did you not notice that he was pulling your leg? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From abpillai at gmail.com Wed May 18 09:33:50 2011 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 13:03:50 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do. 1. Go to http://code.activestate.com/recipes 2. Think up a problem I like to solve on the day and write it up in Python 3. Submit as a Python recipe. Of course you can do it in Perl or PHP, but Python rulez there. Around 5 recipes of the total 35 I submitted with this thinking have been actively used and some of them were forked off by other "Open source" folks to projects of their own - well at least one (pyjavaproperties). So, next time you bash open source in general, give me a call and I could advise you on the "fringe" benefits open source gives you which I dont think you are truly aware. --Anand On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks > in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for > all students of computer science, all over the world. Attleast they need to > now there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world. > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From abpillai at gmail.com Wed May 18 11:58:04 2011 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 15:28:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > As Sartaj Singh Kang, correctly pointed out, there are big bad trainwrecks > in this world. I think this whole thread must be a cumpulsory reading for > all students of computer science, all over the world. Aiming rather too high , aren't we ? > Attleast they need to > now there are big bad trainwrecks still alive in this world. > > -- --Anand From steve at lonetwin.net Wed May 18 14:27:25 2011 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 17:57:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> Hi Anand, On 05/18/2011 01:03 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what > I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do. > Don't feed the troll. I remarked at the fact that this person was deliberately trolling in another reply in this thread. Take a look at the URL in his sig and then see the pattern of his mails. Someone who lists open source software on his homepage (Apache License, even!) and then comes here to rant about the 'myth' of free software is obviously trolling (even if he sucks at doing that properly!) cheers, - steve -- random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Wed May 18 14:31:42 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:01:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? Message-ID: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Hi all, I've recently discovered the uWSGI project - http://projects.unbit.it/uwsgi/ and am hoping to hear from any of you who have had the chance to use it in production. Specifically: 1. Is nginx+uwsgi easier to use and manage than apache and mod_wsgi? 2. Is there a measurable difference in memory use and performance, in practical terms? 3. Did you notice any stability issues under load? I realize that I'm fishing here, but I'd really appreciate some insight. -Taj. From sree at mahiti.org Wed May 18 14:43:20 2011 From: sree at mahiti.org (Sreekanth S Rameshaiah) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:13:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? In-Reply-To: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 18 May 2011 18:01, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > Hi all, > > I've recently discovered the uWSGI project - > http://projects.unbit.it/uwsgi/ and am hoping to hear from any of you who > have had the chance to use it in production. Specifically: > > 1. Is nginx+uwsgi easier to use and manage than apache and mod_wsgi? > We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live in next few days. > 2. Is there a measurable difference in memory use and performance, in > practical terms? > We did not notice major difference. > 3. Did you notice any stability issues under load? > No issues. Under the load that we expect, the load test showed very satisfactory performance. Regards, - sree -- Sreekanth S Rameshaiah Executive Director Mahiti Infotech Pvt. Ltd. "OpenSpace", #583, Vyalikaval HBCS Layout, Nagawara, Veerannapalya, Bangalore, India - 560043 Phone: +91 80 4343 7373 Mobile: +91 98455 12611 www.mahiti.org From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Wed May 18 14:55:34 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:25:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? In-Reply-To: References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the reply, Sree. If I might pick your brain further - On 18-May-11, at 6:13 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote: [snip] > We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live > in next > few days. What was the reasoning behind choosing it over apache+mod_wsgi? What are the deal-breaker features that you'd miss if you went back to mod_wsgi? -Taj. From santrajan at gmail.com Wed May 18 14:57:34 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:27:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: (FUNCTION TROLL ((FUNCTION PRINT) "Hello World"))) On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 5:57 PM, steve wrote: > Hi Anand, > > > On 05/18/2011 01:03 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > >> Dude, you seriously have lots of free time on your hands... Here is what >> I (used to) do when I had time to waste as you do. >> >> > Don't feed the troll. I remarked at the fact that this person was > deliberately trolling in another reply in this thread. Take a look at the > URL in his sig and then see the pattern of his mails. Someone who lists open > source software on his homepage (Apache License, even!) and then comes here > to rant about the 'myth' of free software is obviously trolling (even if he > sucks at doing that properly!) > > > cheers, > - steve > > -- > random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ > what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Wed May 18 15:00:50 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:30:50 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net> On 18-May-11, at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > (FUNCTION TROLL > ((FUNCTION PRINT) > "Hello World"))) > Please just stop. -Taj. From sree at mahiti.org Wed May 18 15:02:42 2011 From: sree at mahiti.org (Sreekanth S Rameshaiah) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:32:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? In-Reply-To: References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 18 May 2011 18:25, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > Thanks for the reply, Sree. If I might pick your brain further - > > On 18-May-11, at 6:13 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote: > [snip] > > We have used it in one large scale project which is due to go live in next >> few days. >> > > What was the reasoning behind choosing it over apache+mod_wsgi? What are > the deal-breaker features that you'd miss if you went back to mod_wsgi? If we had our say, we would have settled for apache+ mod_wsgi. Client was techie organisation and they felt nginx + uwsgi will perform better. Our research showed that in a fully dynamic environment it makes no difference. In a usecase where lot of static (both text/ binary) content get served, there may be performance gain in nginx + uwsgi. We just follow the client's directive as both almost had similar performance. - sree From santrajan at gmail.com Wed May 18 15:04:45 2011 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:34:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net> References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain the code I have written above? On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > On 18-May-11, at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > > (FUNCTION TROLL >> ((FUNCTION PRINT) >> "Hello World"))) >> >> > Please just stop. > > -Taj. > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the exceptions?. *Oliver Wendell Holmes* From abpillai at gmail.com Wed May 18 15:11:35 2011 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:41:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain the > code I have written above? > Well, thank you for the wholesome entertainment you provided. Well, it was fun while it lasted... Goodbye. > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang >wrote: > > > -- --Anand From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Wed May 18 15:25:24 2011 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 18:55:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? In-Reply-To: References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On 18-May-11, at 6:32 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote: [snip] > We just follow the client's directive as both almost had similar > performance. > :) Thanks again. I hope you can give us a quick post mortem when you've had some time to observe it in production. -Taj. From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Thu May 19 09:15:23 2011 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:45:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Using south for migration for a django project Message-ID: Hi all , I have been trying to use south(0.7) for migrating a django(1.2.5) project (db backend - postgres but have also tried using with sqlite3) Essentially I wish to rename a field in one of my apps. I am also using mezzanine cms (0.10) . The first problem I run into is that mezzanine apps become out of sync while making initial migration although I have not made any changes to mezzanine. The next problem is when I run the migration scripts I get this particular error(on both postgres and sqlite3): AttributeError: 'DatabaseFeatures' object has no attribute 'supports_tablespaces' I commented out the line in south causing the error. And the migration scripts seem to run fine on my app atleast ( at least I do not get any errors) But while loading fixtures in the end south again exists with a mezzanine related issue : DatabaseError: relation "pages_page" does not exist LINE 1: SELECT (1) AS "a" FROM "pages_page" WHERE "pages_page"."id" ... Can some one help me out with this . Point to a good tutorial for south or recommend a tool that has worked for them in the past. -- A-M-I-T S|S From lawgon at gmail.com Thu May 19 09:20:26 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:50:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Using south for migration for a django project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1305789626.1994.107.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 12:45 +0530, Amit Sethi wrote: > Can some one help me out with this . Point to a good tutorial for > south or recommend a tool that has worked for them in the past. > > as mentioned on IRC the easiest way is to write a script and do it manually. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Thu May 19 14:37:18 2011 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:07:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Precisely my question on your original post. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > Are you talking to thin air? You haven't quoted anything??? > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > > You're confusing open source, free software and free of cost software. > > Also, your approach and choice of words is not one that kindles a > > healthy debate. I don't expect this thread to lead anywhere useful. > > > > -- > > ~noufal > > http://nibrahim.net.in > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > http://about.me/santosh.rajan > > ?The *young man* knows the rules but the *old man* knows the > exceptions?. *Oliver > Wendell Holmes* > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Thu May 19 14:40:45 2011 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:10:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> <43E0C0B6-4DA7-4FCB-9C6D-7CD72C25493C@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Santosh Rajan > wrote: > > > Ok I will agree to stop, under one condition, can you please explain the > > code I have written above? > > > > Well, thank you for the wholesome entertainment you provided. > Well, it was fun while it lasted... Goodbye. > > Ahh .. didn't realise this thread had ended when sending my earlier mail since I was scanning the thread chronologically. I think dead threads should remain so, and people like me who dig such threads out of their grave should go and do some penance for such a heinous deed. From b.ghose at gmail.com Thu May 19 14:48:31 2011 From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:18:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] The myth of free software In-Reply-To: References: <7F794EDA-1117-4990-918E-E52DAE46449B@sirtaj.net> <42197061-E6FE-4EAD-A113-2EEB250D360B@sirtaj.net> <727F9454-42D0-4F75-8737-0B3E46128912@sirtaj.net> <69B8E3D8-8EA6-49AD-82AE-4B95358DA320@sirtaj.net> <4DD3BB2D.6040106@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > (FUNCTION TROLL > ? ?((FUNCTION PRINT) > ? ? ? ?"Hello World"))) You clearly don't know enough Lisp to even craft a joke properly. Stick to what you know, that will suite you better. Regards, BG -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Thu May 19 15:33:58 2011 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:03:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM wrote: > Hi All, > > I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web > based application. > The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are using > MySQL. > Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or I > need to choose some frame works? > > Please help me. > > I cannot speak for whether mod_python is dead or alive. Resolving the Schr?dinger's cat paradox could perhaps be easier. My opinions however would be that it would depend very substantially upon the nature of the application. a. For extremely high concurrency I would look at tornado. However it has relatively limited features - so more often than not I would usually give it a pass. b. For most apps, and especially if I wanted a comprehensive well integrated framework - I would look to django. It also happens to perhaps be one of the most frequently used. c. I chose pylons since it better followed my preference of integrating multiple tightly focused frameworks (for templating / databases etc.). Note that pylons is now no longer actively developed and its successor is pyramid. However I haven't really looked at pyramid though thats the one you would want to look at. One particular aspect of pylons is that it does not itself contain a ORM and is usually used with sqlalchemy. Since you specifically mentioned large data - this option of pyramid + sqlalchemy might give you better mileage if the huge data needs to be maintained in a RDBMS. There are a number of other useful frameworks as well including web.py, turbogears etc, but I am not experienced enough to comment on them. Also there are many other light weight / micro frameworks (eg. flask, bottle etc.) You could also consider using sqlalchemy in conjunction with such micro frameworks as well if you need a simple web tier with some complex database handling. Dhananjay Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322 > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Thu May 19 16:03:52 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:33:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Turbogear developers works with Pyramid guys, but no outcome is planned so far. They might create a framework on top of pyramid or do contribution to plug-ins.. If you are starter, I would advise you go with Django. Pyramid is nice for hard-core developer, when it comes to end level framework users, it still lacks of examples/tutorials, cookbooks, patterns. I use Pyramid because of Mako and SqlAlchemy. But I have a lot of frustration when I started with Pylons 2 years back. Advantages with Django: 1. Huge community members than Pyramid/Pylons 2. There are a lot of plug-ins/todos/guides/helps/blogs available 3. There are many open-source applications to learn from 4. There are forum/blog/cms systems Django is self contained solution, where it has ORM/Templates/Views/Routing tightly couples, IMHO. Where as in Pyramid, you have Options.. Regards, Gopalakrishnan Subramani On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Dhananjay Nene wrote: > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, OOMMEN KM wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I would like to know which technology should I use for developing a web > > based application. > > The application will have to handle a huge amount of data and we are > using > > MySQL. > > Will mod_python a good option for the development of this application? Or > I > > need to choose some frame works? > > > > Please help me. > > > > I cannot speak for whether mod_python is dead or alive. Resolving the > Schr?dinger's cat paradox could perhaps be easier. My opinions however > would > be that it would depend very substantially upon the nature of the > application. > > a. For extremely high concurrency I would look at tornado. However it has > relatively limited features - so more often than not I would usually give > it > a pass. > b. For most apps, and especially if I wanted a comprehensive well > integrated > framework - I would look to django. It also happens to perhaps be one of > the > most frequently used. > c. I chose pylons since it better followed my preference of integrating > multiple tightly focused frameworks (for templating / databases etc.). Note > that pylons is now no longer actively developed and its successor is > pyramid. However I haven't really looked at pyramid though thats the one > you > would want to look at. One particular aspect of pylons is that it does not > itself contain a ORM and is usually used with sqlalchemy. Since you > specifically mentioned large data - this option of pyramid + sqlalchemy > might give you better mileage if the huge data needs to be maintained in a > RDBMS. > > There are a number of other useful frameworks as well including web.py, > turbogears etc, but I am not experienced enough to comment on them. > > Also there are many other light weight / micro frameworks (eg. flask, > bottle > etc.) You could also consider using sqlalchemy in conjunction with such > micro frameworks as well if you need a simple web tier with some complex > database handling. > > Dhananjay > > Oommen Mathew | +91 9446917322 > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com Mon May 23 16:39:49 2011 From: rajeev.sebastian at gmail.com (Rajeev J Sebastian) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:09:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Web Application Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Gopalakrishnan Subramani wrote: > Django is self contained solution, where it has ORM/Templates/Views/Routing > tightly couples, IMHO. Where as in Pyramid, you have Options.. They are not tightly coupled at all. In core django: There are a couple of generic views that are coupled to Models (ORM), and there exists an integration layer between forms and Models; forms are quite usable without Models. templates, routing, etc are not coupled at all, though the bundled urlconf system is simple to learn and effective. In django contrib apps: 3rd party apps: preminent apps such as auth, admin etc depend on ORM, and most 3rd party apps assume the use of the ORM. In any case, if you're just starting off with your application, django would be a good choice (one of many), and with good options to move to other components later. Regards Rajeev J Sebastian From alephnull at hcoop.net Mon May 23 16:47:40 2011 From: alephnull at hcoop.net (Alok G. Singh) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:17:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Practical experiences with uWSGI? References: <7DC6029E-67B3-4A18-B1A9-AEA296B924D6@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <87zkmdlbhv.fsf@euclid.localdomain> Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote: > If we had our say, we would have settled for apache+ mod_wsgi. Client > was techie organisation and they felt nginx + uwsgi will perform > better. Our research showed that in a fully dynamic environment it > makes no difference. Apache is a behemoth and would be overkill (imho) for the task of reverse-proxying. Additionally, if the app is configured such that static content is served from nginx, you reap that performance benefit too. TBH, the benefits are from the nginx end, not the uwsgi end. paster, gunicorn, uwsgi, et al are about as fast as each other. nginx can load balance and serve static content faster than Apache consuming less memory[1]. The feature rich Apache has a bigger attack profile as well. Footnotes: [1] All this is app dependant, of course :) -- Alok "Can you program?" "Well, I'm literate, if that's what you mean!" From varun.v.naik at gmail.com Mon May 23 17:00:05 2011 From: varun.v.naik at gmail.com (Varun Naik) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:30:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python Message-ID: Hello All, I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me. -- Thanks & Regard, Varun.V.Naik From venkat83 at gmail.com Mon May 23 17:20:47 2011 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:50:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik wrote: > Hello All, > > I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me. > > http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ -V From as1438 at msstate.edu Mon May 23 17:26:55 2011 From: as1438 at msstate.edu (Ananya Sharma) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:26:55 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation. On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S wrote: > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik > wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages > as > > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me. > > > > > http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ > > -V > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From rajkannan.rajan at gmail.com Mon May 23 17:35:32 2011 From: rajkannan.rajan at gmail.com (Rajkannan Rajan) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:05:32 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Ananya Sharma wrote: > try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation. > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S wrote: > >> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik >> wrote: >> >> > Hello All, >> > >> > ?I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages >> as >> > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me. >> > >> > >> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ >> >> -V http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/ (optional) From gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com Tue May 24 07:17:03 2011 From: gopalakrishnan.subramani at gmail.com (Gopalakrishnan Subramani) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 10:47:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://diveintopython.org/ nice book as well.. -- Gopalakrishnan Subramani On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Rajkannan Rajan wrote: > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Ananya Sharma wrote: > > try youtube tutorials along with the online documentation. > > > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Venkatraman S > wrote: > > > >> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Varun Naik > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hello All, > >> > > >> > I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming > languages > >> as > >> > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help > me. > >> > > >> > > >> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ > >> > >> -V > > http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index > > > http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/ > (optional) > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lawgon at gmail.com Tue May 24 07:42:05 2011 From: lawgon at gmail.com (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 11:12:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1306215725.1994.169.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 10:47 +0530, Gopalakrishnan Subramani wrote: > http://diveintopython.org/ > > nice book as well.. not for people new to programming -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/ From vid at svaksha.com Tue May 24 08:06:06 2011 From: vid at svaksha.com (=?UTF-8?B?4KWlIOCkuOCljeCkteCkleCljeCktyDgpaUg?=) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 06:06:06 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] Scratch Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 15:00, Varun Naik wrote: > Hello All, > > ?I want to learn python, I don't have any idea on programming languages as > for now, can anybody help me from where I can start with. Please help me. LPTHW (Learn Python The Hard Way) is the best choice if you are new to programming[0] in general. I've added some more useful resources [1]...[5], but would still recommend that you finish LPTHW first. Btw, in my experience, its easier to learn a language if you can identify the task you want accomplished -- 'compute statistical averages for BSE prices daily' or 'want to add foo-bar feature in my weblog [2]', etc... [0] I was about to write 'learning how to use virtualenvwrapper is an important skill' but stopped. Didnt want to overwhelm you with advanced stuff, which you can look into when you are more comfortable with python basics. [1] http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/index.html [2] http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming/ General tips and reading: [3] http://bayes.colorado.edu/PythonGuidelines.html [4] http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html [5] http://nullege.com/ (a search engine for Python code) HTH, vid ? http://svaksha.com ?