[Baypiggies] Meetup re BayPIGgies organization Thu 4/27, 7pm, Jing Jing, Palo Alto

Marilyn Davis marilyn at deliberate.com
Wed Apr 26 18:36:00 CEST 2006

Thank you Aahz and Wes for listing your contributions.  And thank you for doing them!

I'm remembering this message from JJ:

> Sorry, I'm going to publicly say that it doesn't make much sense to
> have a meeting if Wesley and Aahz aren't there :-/  Wesley's probably
> busy as heck with his book.
> -jj

What is missing from the lists of tasks is "decision-making".  How has that been happening so far?

I also remember that the poll and survey are considered "non-binding".  What is binding?

I find it uncomfortable for a big volunteer group to be in a position where they can't make a decision unless a specific 2 people are involved, specially when both are too busy writing books and having babies to participate.  Are we simply stuck?

If we find a way to unstick ourselves, I hope that we make some schedule where we rotate the duties, that no one holds a position of power and visibility for longer than a year or two.  

"Benevolent dictator" makes a lot of sense for a technical design or a programming language, but not for a big volunteer group.  Volunteer groups thrive on democracy.

Is "democracy" a forgotten art?

----- On Tuesday, April 25, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote:

> [things which need to be done to allow Wesley to "become a civilian"]
>>- organize talks & invite speakers
>>- introduce sp[e]akers ...
> I am willing to cover this up via planning doc in my sig below.  However, I
> am organizing Topic Organizers, not speakers per se.  In cases where there
> is more than one speaker, I think the topic organizer is in the best
> position to introduce speakers.
> To be specific, tomorrow night, I think it falls to JJ to introduce the
> speaker insofar as he did much of the work in setting up the meeting.  If
> he doesn't want to introduce, it would be his call as the organizer to
> designate how this is handled.
> There is no default moderator I am aware of and using the Topic Organizer
> to moderate the meeting for the night seems to cover the next several meetings.
>>... and time-moderate meetings
> I did this at last IronPort meeting.  I see the Random Access/Mapping which
> I would like to moderate as the final event so I serve as an advocate for
> ending regular program on time.  Marilyn has expressed interest in time
> moderation topics. ... further discussion useful.

'Time moderation topics'?  I expressed interest in starting the meetings on time and will help with that if there is interest.  If the "topic organizer" runs the meeting, it will be late or not.

My dad used to say "I waste more time by being on time".  I think it is important to not waste the time of punctual people and I see no problem with late people missing something.  It seems the totally polite solution.

I am not attached to being the person who starts the meeting on time, but will do it if called on, for no more than a year or two.

>>- setup/maintain locations with hosts
>>- organize offsite meetings when main site(s) aren't available
>>- hang/tape up signs at sites to direct folks to meeting room

If there is a meeting-starter position, this sign duty should go along with it.

> There are some issues here with no clear owner yet imo.  Stephen is calling
> an organizing meeting and this topic is included, as he has specifically
> identified "current alternating location setup" as a discussion topic.
>>- manage recruiters who want to "sell their wares"
> The last can be done via Mapping/Random Access.  I can pick this up.
>>- update/maintain the website
>>- manage/moderate mailing list (rejecting spam, etc.)
> Oh?  I thought Aazh had this responsibility/was doing both of these.  Donna
> had volunteered to work on this.  But my sense is the job she would
> do/tools used are enough different that a complete transfer makes more
> sense than "participation".  One way or another, we may be able to cover this.
> It would be great to see from Aazh what he is doing/wants to continue doing.
>>- buy snacks and collect donations
> Donna is starting this up at Google
>>- keep meetings going even if there is no topic
> I have a difference of opinion on this one.  If we don't have a topic, I
> don't think we have a meeting.  I would want to put my energy into having
> content in the meeting.  If there is no content, then cancel the meeting is
> my feeling.

I totally agree with you, Dennis.  It is no fun to drive yourself to a meeting and discover that there is no content.

And, thank you for all you are doing for the group.

I am intrigued by Paul Gavin's generous offer:

> If people like it, I would be happy to buy the name for the group and
> host the site on my server in Santa Rosa; I run a Linux/Zope Server
> that hosts several sites already.

Do I remember that Dennis asked for the power to upload his working schedule to the web site?  That didn't happen?  And that's why he's using his company web space?  Maybe I got that all wrong?

I think it would be cool to have an alternate web space with the name pybay.xxx.  Short and sweet.  Maybe Dennis could upload his document there?  Maybe the baypiggies site could be echoed there.

Good luck to us!


>>- collate and hand out swag to speakers
> Seems like another possible topic for Stephen's meeting.
>>if i can be just a "civilian" for now, that would be best, otherwise
>>i'll try to pick up something that volunteers have not taken off the
> This has been an excellent list.  Thanks for being explicit.
> ------------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com     |
> | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam   |
> | http://dair.com/py/planmeet.html |
> ------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

More information about the Baypiggies mailing list