From DennisR at dair.com Tue Aug 1 02:05:30 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:05:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking August meeting speakers In-Reply-To: <448DEEAF.5000809@dreid.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> At our upcoming Aug 10, meeting at IronPort David Reid will be giving a 30 minute talk on Twisted.Web2. We have 75 minutes total available. There are 45 minutes where we do not have a speaker. Please let me/the list know if you would like to make a presentation or have a topic discussion you would like to lead. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam | ---------------------------------- From drewp at bigasterisk.com Tue Aug 1 08:10:02 2006 From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:10:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking August meeting speakers In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> Message-ID: <44CEF03A.1080202@bigasterisk.com> Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > At our upcoming Aug 10, meeting at IronPort David Reid will be giving a 30 > minute talk on Twisted.Web2. We have 75 minutes total available. > > There are 45 minutes where we do not have a speaker. Please let me/the > list know if you would like to make a presentation or have a topic > discussion you would like to lead. > I can present a recent python project: control software for a modified paper cutter (the fancy-shapes kind, not the large-blade kind). My blog posts cover the early parts of the project: http://drewp.quickwitretort.com/2006/06/06/0 http://drewp.quickwitretort.com/2006/06/20/0 I can get into the applications of python for driving the parallel port, parsing and rasterizing SVG, doing a preprocess on the curves to compensate for a hardware problem, etc. The python modules I used are Numeric, ScientificPython, twisted, louie, elementtree, and Tkinter. From eric at ericwalstad.com Tue Aug 1 17:33:31 2006 From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:33:31 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking August meeting speakers In-Reply-To: <44CEF03A.1080202@bigasterisk.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> <44CEF03A.1080202@bigasterisk.com> Message-ID: <200608010833.32108.eric@ericwalstad.com> On Monday 31 July 2006 23:10, Drew Perttula wrote: > Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > > At our upcoming Aug 10, meeting at IronPort David Reid will be giving a > > 30 minute talk on Twisted.Web2. We have 75 minutes total available. > > > > There are 45 minutes where we do not have a speaker. Please let me/the > > list know if you would like to make a presentation or have a topic > > discussion you would like to lead. ... > I can present a recent python project: control software for a modified > paper cutter (the fancy-shapes kind, not the large-blade kind). +1 From DennisR at dair.com Tue Aug 1 18:33:45 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:33:45 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking August meeting speakers In-Reply-To: <44CEF03A.1080202@bigasterisk.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060612093830.00c1a1d8@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060731170022.00c28ce0@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060801092934.00bfc370@localhost> At 11:10 PM 7/31/2006, Drew Perttula wrote: >I can present a recent python project: control software for a modified >paper cutter (the fancy-shapes kind, not the large-blade kind). Drew, Excellent. I am looking forward to this. I will follow up privately in a day or so with an announcement draft that will be published on BayPiggies.net. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam | ---------------------------------- From todd at agulnick.com Wed Aug 2 23:00:30 2006 From: todd at agulnick.com (Todd Agulnick) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:00:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Full-time position - Sr. Software Engineer Message-ID: <44D1126E.7010500@agulnick.com> Foxmarks, LLC is developing a novel, user-driven approach to finding the information that matters on the Web. Founded by industry pioneer Mitch Kapor (Lotus, EFF, Mozilla, Open Source Applications Foundation, Second Life), it combines approaches from search engines, social bookmarking services, and Wikipedia-style content collaboration. This is a chance to work on a project which is going to make a difference in the world. We have a stimulating work environment with smart, hard-working people and a commitment to treating people well. Our SOMA offices are sunny, casual and dog-friendly, and are easy to get to from BART, Caltrain and MUNI. We are seeking a Senior Software Engineer to architect and implement (in Python) the back-end of Foxmarks' next-generation system. This system is composed of a variety of components, including a three-tiered web application as well as downloadable browser components. Requirements: * 7+ years software development experience; * 2+ years development experience with Python; * Experience developing high-volume web apps; * Experience building highly scalable consumer-facing applications; * Experience in architecting information systems; * Experience developing API's for internal and external clients; * Knowledge of LAMP or comparable web-app architectures; * Experience designing algorithms for information retrieval/data mining; * Collaborative working style; * Familiarity with Open Source software systems; * Knowledge of Django, Javascript a plus; * Experience in Information Retrieval, Data Mining, Information Architecture, Machine Learning, Artificial Intelligence, Clustering, Personalization, etc., is a plus; * Experience developing RESTian API's a plus; * Knowledge of XHTML, CSS a plus. Interested candidates should forward their resume to jobs at foxmarks.com. From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 19:13:01 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:13:01 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Haskell: Translating C to English Using Haskell Message-ID: I had originally planned on giving a talk next week at BayPiggies on Haskell, but I decided it wouldn't make sense as a talk. Anyway, the actual article is now out. It's a two-part series for "Linux Journal" called "Translating C to English Using Haskell". Here are links to the two parts: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9096 http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9242 The catchline is: Write a program in Haskell that translates C type declarations into English. Manually translate the Haskell into English. I've tried very hard to make it an entertaining article for Haskell newbies, so if your head exploded when you tried to read "A Gentle Introduction to Haskell", give my article a shot! From DennisR at dair.com Fri Aug 4 16:20:22 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 07:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> Thursday, Aug. 10, 2006 Location: Ironport Dungeon Basement Agenda: 7:30 PM to 8:15 PM Topic: Paper Cutter Control Software Speaker: Drew Perttula http://bigasterisk.com Project http://drewp.quickwitretort.com/2006/06/06/0 http://drewp.quickwitretort.com/2006/06/20/0 Materials About the talk I present a recent python project: control software for a modified paper cutter (the fancy-shapes kind, not the large-blade kind). I will get into the applications of python for driving the parallel port, parsing and rasterizing SVG, doing a preprocess on the curves to compensate for a hardware problem, etc. The python modules I used are Numeric, ScientificPython, twisted, louie, elementtree, and Tkinter. 8:15 PM to 8:45 PM Topic: Twisted.Web2 Presenter: David Reid Project Materials About the talk I'd present Twisted.Web2. In particular what it is capable of, where it is going, how it differs from Twisted.Web, what all this means for Nevow. Of course I'd try to include a thorough summary of Twisted for those unfamiliar with the project. 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM Event: Mapping/Random Access Moderator: Dennis Reinhardt http://www.dair.com About the event Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcer is interested in. Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on topics of interest. ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam | ---------------------------------- From donnamsnow at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 16:23:02 2006 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 07:23:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> Message-ID: <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> Will post today .... Donna M. Snow From ETse at jaman.com Fri Aug 4 19:31:25 2006 From: ETse at jaman.com (Eva Tse) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:31:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python server engineers at jaman.com Message-ID: <8C61616968BBED478F906D6233BA93B932815E@EXCH-01.jaman.com> jaman.com is a stealth web 2.0 company with offices in Palo Alto and San Francisco. We are building an online film community and global media network that will revolutionize the way we consume and share media today. jaman.com is quickly growing its engineering team and this market demands cutting-edge web-based and software technologies. We are looking for energetic self-starters to join our venture. As one of the early members in our R&D team, you will be able to make a huge difference; from designing and building the product to making sure it is one of the highest quality web properties on the internet. The product will be shipped to a potential user community of millions. You will work alongside some of the brightest people in the industry using some of the most advanced technologies available today. In particular, our backend web application is > 90% developed in Python. We also leverage a lot of existing open source Python modules like Pyrex, Twisted framework, Pylucene, etc. Using Python, you will be building a production strength web application for millions. If you are looking for a technical challenge and want to develop and contribute to some of the best software around in a web 2.0 environment, we may have a slot for you. We offer full-time employment with benefits and ground floor equity participation. We are backed by a veteran management team with successful track record that is committed to fostering a distinctive culture in a great company. For more information and additional questions, send me an email to etse at jaman.com Server software engineer requirements: - BS/MS in Computer Science or related field. - Several years of software development experience. - Multi-threaded backend server development experience in Python (preferred), Java, or C++. - Internet experience such as web services, LAMP architecture, etc. - Database application development knowledge as in SQL, database schema design, and database optimization. - Network programming experience w/ TCP/IP a plus. Eva Tse. Director of Engineering. www.jaman.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060804/6575b024/attachment.html From donnamsnow at gmail.com Fri Aug 4 22:24:05 2006 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:24:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D3ACE5.9020604@gmail.com> Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? Donna M. Snow From DennisR at dair.com Fri Aug 4 22:48:10 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:48:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <44D3ACE5.9020604@gmail.com> References: <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804134040.00bf40a0@localhost> At 01:24 PM 8/4/2006, Donna M. Snow wrote: >Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? > >Donna M. Snow I had stopped collecting this info. Whether something is "advanced" or whatever is far too dependent on what the prospective audience member already knows. The prospective audience member is in a far better position to evaluate this after reading the abstract. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam | ---------------------------------- From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Sat Aug 5 01:04:41 2006 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:04:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <44D3ACE5.9020604@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Dennis, I honestly do think this is very important. Several times it has happened that people (esp. new people) would show up for a meeting and it turned out to be not at all what they had expected based on the abstract. Regards, Stephen >From: "Donna M. Snow" >To: "Donna M. Snow" >CC: baypiggies at python.org, Dennis Reinhardt >Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:24:05 -0700 > >Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? > >Donna M. Snow From max at theslimmers.net Sat Aug 5 01:22:44 2006 From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200608042322.k74NMngc011441@b.mail.sonic.net> My 2cents, I am new, attended the last Ironport meeting. At least from the abstract in this case it is fairly obvious what the talk will be about and as far as level, unless the speaker states that everyone is assumed to understand twisted and the other libs used I would presume that he will give enough background in these areas such that those who have not yet experienced them will be able to follow the talk. At the same time if the audience is all comfortable and interested the presentation would be adjusted. As long as the speaker is willing and able to adjust the level of the presentation based on the audience then stating the level in advance could be a handicap and limit the possibilities. max > -----Original Message----- > From: baypiggies-bounces+max=theslimmers.net at python.org > [mailto:baypiggies-bounces+max=theslimmers.net at python.org] On > Behalf Of Stephen McInerney > Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:05 PM > To: DennisR at dair.com > Cc: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport > > Hi Dennis, > > I honestly do think this is very important. > Several times it has happened that people (esp. new people) > would show up for a meeting and it turned out to be not at > all what they had expected based on the abstract. > > Regards, > Stephen > > >From: "Donna M. Snow" > >To: "Donna M. Snow" > >CC: baypiggies at python.org, Dennis Reinhardt > >Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport > >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:24:05 -0700 > > > >Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? > > > >Donna M. Snow > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 03:30:43 2006 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 18:30:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Book Review requester- pleast contact me privately Message-ID: <8249c4ac0608071830m6d1bf740q2ce16dcea4c6cc80@mail.gmail.com> Whomever contacted me about requesting this book to review recently, would you please contact me off list? I seem to have lost your contact information. thanks and apologies for the OT content Interface-Oriented Design With Patterns By Ken Pugh First Edition: July 2006 ISBN: 0-9766940-5-0 Pages: 240 Description *Interface Oriented Design* explores how to develop robust, reliable software as a collection of interfaces that interact with each other. You'll learn what polymorphism and encapsulation really mean, and how to use these ideas more effectively. See how to create better interfaces using agile development techniques, and learn the subtle differences between implementing an interface and inheriting an implementation. Take a fresh, modern view of Design By Contract and class responsibilities. Understand the basis of a service-oriented architecture, including stateful versus stateless interfaces, procedural versus document models, and synchronous versus asynchronous invocations. Learn about the most useful patterns, including Proxy, Facade, Adapter, and Factory, as well categories of interfaces including service providers, information holders, and external world interfaces. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060807/418de87d/attachment.html From dreid at dreid.org Tue Aug 8 04:03:44 2006 From: dreid at dreid.org (David Reid) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:03:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <200608042322.k74NMngc011441@b.mail.sonic.net> References: <200608042322.k74NMngc011441@b.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: <44D7F100.8070808@dreid.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Max Slimmer wrote: > My 2cents, > I am new, attended the last Ironport meeting. At least from the abstract in > this case it is fairly obvious what the talk will be about and as far as > level, unless the speaker states that everyone is assumed to understand > twisted and the other libs used I would presume that he will give enough > background in these areas such that those who have not yet experienced them > will be able to follow the talk. At the same time if the audience is all > comfortable and interested the presentation would be adjusted. > > As long as the speaker is willing and able to adjust the level of the > presentation based on the audience then stating the level in advance could > be a handicap and limit the possibilities. > > max > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: baypiggies-bounces+max=theslimmers.net at python.org >> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces+max=theslimmers.net at python.org] On >> Behalf Of Stephen McInerney >> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:05 PM >> To: DennisR at dair.com >> Cc: baypiggies at python.org >> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport >> >> Hi Dennis, >> >> I honestly do think this is very important. >> Several times it has happened that people (esp. new people) >> would show up for a meeting and it turned out to be not at >> all what they had expected based on the abstract. >> >> Regards, >> Stephen >> >>> From: "Donna M. Snow" >>> To: "Donna M. Snow" >>> CC: baypiggies at python.org, Dennis Reinhardt >>> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport >>> Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:24:05 -0700 >>> >>> Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? >>> >>> Donna M. Snow Now that I'm able to send email again. I'll fill in the gaps of my synopsis. It is mostly intended to generate interest in the this particular area of development. It's not a sales pitch, but it's likewise not an intense technical tutorial. I'll be giving an overview of what Twisted is, and how it's various web servers and frameworks fit together and what is going to be happening in the future. The talk is very much intended to clear up the numerous questions that new users have when coming to twisted for web development. I hope to provide a clear idea of what problems each system solves and how to know which works for you. - -David - -- "Usually the protocol is this: I appoint someone for a task, which they are not qualified to do. Then, they have to fight a bear if they don't want to do it." -- Glyph Lefkowitz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE1/EArsrO6aeULcgRAuecAJ9fcTOiLpK0r86H+1SEOJiBBm8mqQCeLKAS mb7t8RQeWj2rg1fXi9VGwjU= =pZ+o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mrbmahoney at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 18:36:54 2006 From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:36:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, Aug 10, 6 pm Message-ID: <5538c19b0608080936o25cba698ma2e63729c2dccf8@mail.gmail.com> I can coordinate dinner this Thursday, before the BayPIGgies meeting, at Cafe Grillades (formerly Crepes du Monde) in the Bayhill Shopping Center, several blocks from the IronPort meeting location. Cafe Grillades has a web site with information about both their locations, SF and San Bruno. We will be at San Bruno ! http://www.cafegrillades.com Here is a page for directions and a link to a map. http://www.cafegrillades.com/contact.html Cafe Grillades 815 Cherry Avenue Suite 16 San Bruno. CA 94066 Phone: 650 589-3778 I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm Thursday. If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I confirm the headcount. From krishna2 at krishna2.com Tue Aug 8 21:45:07 2006 From: krishna2 at krishna2.com (Krishna Srinivasan) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Yahoo's python development center Message-ID: Greetings. Yayy....we have a nice Yahoo developer network's Python development center. Check out the announcement here : http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2006/08/introducing_the.html Enjoy the links, the how-tos...etc. We are hiring talented python folks (including my group). Cheers, Krishna. PS - I work in Yahoo Search Group. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060808/01e8ae2c/attachment.html From reuber at stanford.edu Tue Aug 8 22:08:47 2006 From: reuber at stanford.edu (Kent Reuber) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:08:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Any Python events at WWDC? Message-ID: <26B92AA7-C8E1-412A-9272-E1E9637285EB@stanford.edu> Is anyone doing any Python presentations or BOFs at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference this week? Kent Reuber Stanford University Networking From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 23:34:48 2006 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] OT: Event and I'm outta town rest of this week Message-ID: <44D90378.3090202@gmail.com> Hi, I'm a volunteer for the Linux Picnic coming up August 19, 2006 (I'm in charge of the Welcome Table)... http://www.linuxpicnic.org ..(please be sure to RSVP to reserve food - FREE and a Tshirt). We're looking for more sponsors as well.. I took my kids last year and it was a blast.. not python specific but a whole range of interests. The park is gorgeous..food was yummy.. and I met a lot of interesting people. I will also be at Linux World on August 17th helping to man the Plone booth (or woman it.. )..so if you are going.. please drop by and say hi :-) (Stephen Hindle will be working the booth with me) I'm heading to Vegas (leave tomorrow afternoon) to visit my soon to be 20 year old daughter who moved out/on in June (left the nest) and will be living in LA.. (she's working at Marciano's in Ceasar's Palace for the summer). If there is anything needed for website.. I'm leaving my cell phone with Dennis (he can text me or leave voice mail.. ) and I'll update anything needing updating from Vegas..I'll be back on Sunday night.. (the 13th) Also, if you are interested in being notified when we are meeting for coffee (or other such beverages) please email me offlist and i'll keep those announcements to those who would like to meet with us once in awhile at a local coffee shop (with free wireless) and get geeky with it. It's usually spur of the moment.. Donna M. Snow From ra at burningman.com Tue Aug 8 23:47:46 2006 From: ra at burningman.com (Rob Miller) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:47:46 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] deleting an inherited attribute? Message-ID: hi, i have a situation where one of my classes is inheriting an attribute defined at the class level of one of my base classes, like so: class SuperClass: value = 'Foo' class MyClass(SuperClass): pass the problem is that i don't need the 'value' attribute at all, and in fact its very existence is causing problems with some other dependency code. there is a call elsewhere that is doing something like this: myinstance = MyClass() if hasattr(myinstance, 'value'): print "this is the wrong result" else: print "this is what i want to happen" is there some way to remove the inherited attribute from MyClass's namespace? i've tried putting 'del MyClass.value' or 'del self.value' in MyClass's __init__ method, but i get AttributeErrors. 'del SuperClass.value' works, of course, but that would then impact SuperClass itself, and all of the other consumers of SuperClass, which won't do. any suggestions? -r From keith at kdart.com Tue Aug 8 23:56:38 2006 From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:56:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] deleting an inherited attribute? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060808145638.236f4602@psyche.corp.google.com> Rob Miller wrote the following on 2006-08-08 at 14:47 PDT: === > any suggestions? === Can you fix the other code that's checking for the attribute? If not, you can do this: class C(object): def _nope(self): raise AttributeError value = property(_nope) -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From ra at burningman.com Wed Aug 9 00:02:14 2006 From: ra at burningman.com (Rob Miller) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:02:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] deleting an inherited attribute? In-Reply-To: <20060808145638.236f4602@psyche.corp.google.com> References: <20060808145638.236f4602@psyche.corp.google.com> Message-ID: Keith Dart wrote: > Rob Miller wrote the following on 2006-08-08 at 14:47 PDT: > === >> any suggestions? > > === > > Can you fix the other code that's checking for the attribute? If not, > you can do this: > > > class C(object): > def _nope(self): > raise AttributeError > value = property(_nope) no, but this seems to work well. i would have thought that the existence of the property would have still caused hasattr to return True, but the AttributeError seems to negate that. thanks! -r From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 00:21:57 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:21:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] deleting an inherited attribute? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/8/06, Rob Miller wrote: > hi, > > i have a situation where one of my classes is inheriting an attribute defined > at the class level of one of my base classes, like so: > > class SuperClass: > value = 'Foo' > > class MyClass(SuperClass): > pass > > the problem is that i don't need the 'value' attribute at all, and in fact its > very existence is causing problems with some other dependency code. there is > a call elsewhere that is doing something like this: > > myinstance = MyClass() > if hasattr(myinstance, 'value'): > print "this is the wrong result" > else: > print "this is what i want to happen" > > is there some way to remove the inherited attribute from MyClass's namespace? > i've tried putting 'del MyClass.value' or 'del self.value' in MyClass's > __init__ method, but i get AttributeErrors. 'del SuperClass.value' works, of > course, but that would then impact SuperClass itself, and all of the other > consumers of SuperClass, which won't do. > > any suggestions? It's too bad you can't fix the hasattr code. A much nicer idiom for this situation is: if getattr(myinstance, 'value', None): Best Regards, -jj From drewp at bigasterisk.com Thu Aug 10 09:15:26 2006 From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:15:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Notice of Meeting Aug. 10 at Ironport In-Reply-To: <44D3ACE5.9020604@gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060804071901.00c02a98@localhost> <44D35846.9040706@gmail.com> <44D3ACE5.9020604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DADD0E.6090207@bigasterisk.com> Donna M. Snow wrote: > Are there "levels" on the two presentations at Ironport? > I suppose I could answer this for my talk, but I'm not sure what you want to know. My material should be interesting to people who can't write python, but I'll obviously focus on how I was able to use python and other python libraries to complete my project. As usual, I won't have structured slides (there might be an emacs window open if we're lucky) so I'm happy to adjust my talk based on the questions people have. From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 09:45:57 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:45:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] meetings, linuxworld, oscon, objects, etc. Message-ID: <78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed@mail.gmail.com> hi everyone, couple of things to general populus that i didn't get a chance to make at tonite's meeting -- great talks by both drew and david!! 1. meeting at IronPort vs. Google is no longer an issue. because JJ is leaving IronPort, all meetings will be at Google unless otherwise planned at other venues. if we have SF or EB volunteers, it would be great to have occasional meetings in other Bay Area locales. 2. other than donna and JJ, is anyone else going to be at LinuxWorld @ Moscone this week (mon-thu 8/14-17)? does anyone know if there will be any Python presence at that convention? 3. anyone who went to OSCON a few weeks ago want to report on talks they attended? 4. the company i'm currently working for on a part-time, telecommute, and contract basis is still soliciting resumes. skills desired are: Python, WebWare, Cheetah, XML, SQL/DB/SqlObject, FormEncode. those of you who replied to me please contact me again as i accidentally deleted the email folder. 5. for those who asked (you know who you are!), "Core Python" is almost here. it was supposed to have been sent to the printers for production and binding as of *today*. hands are finally OFF it!! the current scheduled street date is 9/8. thanks for everyone's support and well-wishes. 6. on a related note with regards to the post last month, "Trip-up", regarding a variety of issues: >>> a = 123456 >>> b = 123456 >>> a is b False >>> 123456 is 123456 True this is a common thing that people run into quite often. i've even got a section on this stuff in "Core Python." it's got to do with 3 different things: a. object *identity* comparison vs. object *value* comparison most of the time, people are going to compare values. it is rarely the case where you would compare the objects themselves unless it is in a situation like "is (not) None" where it does matter that you're *not* comparing just the values. b. "interning" in the current version of Python, integers in range(-1, 100) have special meaning. compare the above output to this: >>> a = 10 >>> b = 10 >>> a is b True >>> 10 is 10 True Python caches aka "interns" such numbers because they are likely to be used often, and serves as an optimaization to share the same object rather than creating new ones. however, i would not program to this in case it ever changes in the future. c. (im)mutable objects the normal case of using 123456 is expected behavior. aside from the exception we just mentioned, any time you assign an immutable object to a variable, a new object is created. that is why 'a' is *not* 'b', e.g., a is b --> False. this is for all immutable objects, not just for numbers. 7. there is still room in our Python training class next week... the intensive intro course runs wed-fri 8/16-18 down the hill from IronPort at the bottom of the hill here across street from the San Bruno BART, close to CalTrain, and 101/380/280. http://cyberwebconsulting.com cheers, -wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 11:37:59 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:37:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] PY 3000 Oscon keynote preview In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060727193139.00c01d68@localhost> References: <20060727163744.71DFE1E4004@bag.python.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20060727094917.00bf1bc0@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060727193139.00c01d68@localhost> Message-ID: People were asking about this tonight, so I thought I'd send it again. -jj On 7/27/06, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > Guido previews his Oscon keynote. About 1 hr 15 min. Video dated July 26, > 2006: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6459339159268485356 > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | Powerful Anti-Spam | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From keith at kdart.com Fri Aug 11 21:01:53 2006 From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? Message-ID: The thought of "Python 3000" fills me more with a feeling of trepidation rather than excitement. Is it just me, or do others feel that way? -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From aahz at pythoncraft.com Fri Aug 11 21:13:54 2006 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:13:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> On Fri, Aug 11, 2006, Keith Dart wrote: > > The thought of "Python 3000" fills me more with a feeling of trepidation > rather than excitement. Is it just me, or do others feel that way? Why do you feel trepidation? -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." --Brian W. Kernighan From asheesh at asheesh.org Fri Aug 11 22:05:22 2006 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> References: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Aahz wrote: > On Fri, Aug 11, 2006, Keith Dart wrote: >> >> The thought of "Python 3000" fills me more with a feeling of trepidation >> rather than excitement. Is it just me, or do others feel that way? > > Why do you feel trepidation? He probably remembers the disappointment most of us felt about SimCity 3000. -- Asheesh. P.S. In all seriousness, if you watch the Google Video clip of Guido's preview of the OSCON presentation, you see that Python 3000 is just a slightly cleaner version of current Python. I felt the same trepidation, but now I feel excitement after having seen that. -- Don't tell any big lies today. Small ones can be just as effective. From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 22:09:16 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:09:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> References: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580608111309q19bc7e04o8db8fe5d3a5a2caf@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/06, Aahz wrote: > On Fri, Aug 11, 2006, Keith Dart wrote: > > > > The thought of "Python 3000" fills me more with a feeling of trepidation > > rather than excitement. Is it just me, or do others feel that way? > > Why do you feel trepidation? ii don't think it should be something to be overly-concerned about... it's supposed to have the *opposite* impact as Perl 6. ;-) along with the video, here are Guido's earlier (PPT) slides on the subject: http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/accu2006/Py3kACCU.ppt -wesley From mech422 at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 21:06:25 2006 From: mech422 at gmail.com (Steve Hindle) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:06:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] meetings, linuxworld, oscon, objects, etc. In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a0545880608121206t69f10971m937bdf6134b7ffad@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/06, wesley chun wrote: > > > 2. other than donna and JJ, is anyone else going to be at LinuxWorld > @ Moscone this week (mon-thu 8/14-17)? does anyone know if there > will be any Python presence at that convention? > I'm supposed to work the booth with Donna.... Steve From lhawthorn at google.com Sat Aug 12 22:14:07 2006 From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:14:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Meetings at Google Message-ID: <4869cee70608121314h156a1b0w27a6b6a34b5eec55@mail.google.com> (snip) >From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 09:45:57 2006 Subject: [Baypiggies] meetings, linuxworld, oscon, objects, etc. Message-ID: < 78b3a9580608110045x5711a274hc8c2b014d861d3ed at mail.gmail.com> 1. meeting at IronPort vs. Google is no longer an issue. because JJ is leaving IronPort, all meetings will be at Google unless otherwise planned at other venues. (snip) Hello everyone, I've added the additional 2006 meeting dates to the wiki page. http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings Please make sure to add yourself to the wiki by Tuesday afternoon the week of the meeting so I can make arrangements to print your vistor badge in advance. I will check in with the group at the November meeting to ensure things are still going well with Google as a venue and see if plans might change for meeting time/locale in the new year. Best, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Open Source Program Coordinator Google Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060812/1184bd4e/attachment.htm From DennisR at dair.com Mon Aug 14 03:38:04 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:38:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> As Wes noted, JJ is leaving IronPort and the previous outcome here that our schedule at Google be expanded to monthly is further solidified. Our remaining 2006 schedule (all at Google 7:30 p.m.) then is: Sep. 14 Donna Snow: Plone Oct. 12 -- Nov. 9 Russ Paielli: air traffic controller Dec. 14 -- We have open meetings in Oct. and Dec. at this point. Russ, Oct. 12 is open at this time if you want to change your time. Carl J. Van Arsdall has indicated a future interest. Wes told me of two people may have an interest. Could I ask them that they declare there interest here on the list or to me for follow up since I am doing the coordination? Marilyn had mentioned a possible second IDE night. Previously, the earliest this would happen at Google was Jan 2007. We now have open 2006 slots. All: If you want to speak, please respond to the list or to me. If you want to nominate someone, I favor a response to me rather than the list unless you have reason to believe that someone is ok with discussion about them. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From marilyn at deliberate.com Mon Aug 14 18:32:21 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:32:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060814163223.004901E4002@bag.python.org> ----- On Sunday, August 13, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > As Wes noted, JJ is leaving IronPort and the previous outcome here that our > schedule at Google be expanded to monthly is further solidified. Our > remaining 2006 schedule (all at Google 7:30 p.m.) then is: > > Sep. 14 Donna Snow: Plone > Oct. 12 -- > Nov. 9 Russ Paielli: air traffic controller > Dec. 14 -- > > We have open meetings in Oct. and Dec. at this point. Russ, Oct. 12 is > open at this time if you want to change your time. Carl J. Van Arsdall has > indicated a future interest. Wes told me of two people may have an > interest. Could I ask them that they declare there interest here on the > list or to me for follow up since I am doing the coordination? > > Marilyn had mentioned a possible second IDE night. Previously, the > earliest this would happen at Google was Jan 2007. We now have open 2006 > slots. We have 3 or 4 demos lined up for anotheer IDE night. PythonWin -- Tony C. Komodo -- Ken Seehart SPE PyDev -- Steve Hindle Did someone volunteer for SPE? I can't find it in the archives. Would anyone like to step up and offer a demo? Leslie gave the demo people free black Google shirts with: Python: programming the way Guido indented it on the back. Pretty cool. It could happen again. Or maybe she'll give the demo people new cars this time. Marilyn > > All: If you want to speak, please respond to the list or to me. If you > want to nominate someone, I favor a response to me rather than the list > unless you have reason to believe that someone is ok with discussion about > them. > > Regards, Dennis > > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From aleax at google.com Mon Aug 14 18:41:44 2006 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:41:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> Message-ID: <55dc209b0608140941w4846cc5fx6a23eb66a9551fbe@mail.google.com> On 8/13/06, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > As Wes noted, JJ is leaving IronPort and the previous outcome here that our > schedule at Google be expanded to monthly is further solidified. Our > remaining 2006 schedule (all at Google 7:30 p.m.) then is: > > Sep. 14 Donna Snow: Plone > Oct. 12 -- > Nov. 9 Russ Paielli: air traffic controller > Dec. 14 -- > > We have open meetings in Oct. and Dec. at this point. Russ, Oct. 12 is > open at this time if you want to change your time. Carl J. Van Arsdall has > indicated a future interest. Wes told me of two people may have an > interest. Could I ask them that they declare there interest here on the > list or to me for follow up since I am doing the coordination? > > Marilyn had mentioned a possible second IDE night. Previously, the > earliest this would happen at Google was Jan 2007. We now have open 2006 > slots. > > All: If you want to speak, please respond to the list or to me. If you > want to nominate someone, I favor a response to me rather than the list > unless you have reason to believe that someone is ok with discussion about > them. If there's interest, I'd be happy to present at the October meeting a talk on new features of Python 2.5 and how to use them. The timing seems reasonable since by October Python 2.5 should be have been out for a month or so. The talk should be similar to what I'm going to be presenting at PENLUG on Aug 24 (see ), shorn of the 2.4 parts [the PENLUG talk is 2 hours, the BayPyggies one, I assume, about half that], and no doubt more "solidified" based on actual experience of 2.5 use "in production" (so far, with 2.5 in beta, experience is necessarily limited to non-production ``fooling around'' use:-). Alex From cvanarsdall at mvista.com Mon Aug 14 18:51:06 2006 From: cvanarsdall at mvista.com (Carl J. Van Arsdall) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:51:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0608140941w4846cc5fx6a23eb66a9551fbe@mail.google.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <55dc209b0608140941w4846cc5fx6a23eb66a9551fbe@mail.google.com> Message-ID: <44E0A9FA.5010104@mvista.com> Alex Martelli wrote: > On 8/13/06, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > > > If there's interest, I'd be happy to present at the October meeting a > talk on new features of Python 2.5 and how to use them. The timing > seems reasonable since by October Python 2.5 should be have been out > for a month or so. > > > Well, I would be *very* interested in seeing this presentation. So you got one vote from me! -carl -- Carl J. Van Arsdall cvanarsdall at mvista.com Build and Release MontaVista Software From DennisR at dair.com Mon Aug 14 19:43:07 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:43:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0608140941w4846cc5fx6a23eb66a9551fbe@mail.google.c om> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814104149.00bf71d8@localhost> At 09:41 AM 8/14/2006, Alex Martelli wrote: >If there's interest, I'd be happy to present at the October meeting a >talk on new features of Python 2.5 and how to use them. Sounds great. I have you down for October. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From rstephe at sun.science.wayne.edu Tue Aug 15 00:58:59 2006 From: rstephe at sun.science.wayne.edu (Robert Stephenson) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> Message-ID: I'd be happy to give a version of my OSCON talk on controlling a full- screen presentation with python and a laser pointer. It deals principally with some image analysis issues and python on the Mac (about 30 min worth). Also, someone had suggested a recap of OSCON highlights. I'd be happy to contribute to that (about 5-10 min worth). - Rob On Aug 13, 2006, at 6:38 PM, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > As Wes noted, JJ is leaving IronPort and the previous outcome here > that our > schedule at Google be expanded to monthly is further solidified. Our > remaining 2006 schedule (all at Google 7:30 p.m.) then is: > > Sep. 14 Donna Snow: Plone > Oct. 12 -- > Nov. 9 Russ Paielli: air traffic controller > Dec. 14 -- > > We have open meetings in Oct. and Dec. at this point. Russ, Oct. > 12 is > open at this time if you want to change your time. Carl J. Van > Arsdall has > indicated a future interest. Wes told me of two people may have an > interest. Could I ask them that they declare there interest here > on the > list or to me for follow up since I am doing the coordination? > > Marilyn had mentioned a possible second IDE night. Previously, the > earliest this would happen at Google was Jan 2007. We now have > open 2006 > slots. > > All: If you want to speak, please respond to the list or to me. If > you > want to nominate someone, I favor a response to me rather than the > list > unless you have reason to believe that someone is ok with > discussion about > them. > > Regards, Dennis > > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dr. Robert S. Stephenson * E-learning Architect * rstephe at alumni.princeton.edu * (415) 341-3784 * http://sun.science.wayne.edu/~rstephe * * Community Manager * Global Education & Learning Community on Java.net * http://gelc.org * * Chief Architect and Principal Investigator * http://OpenCourse.Org * Supporting virtual communities of e-learning developers. * * Founder * The Harvey Project * Open Course Physiology on the Web * http://HarveyProject.org * * Was I helpful? Let others know: * http://rate.affero.net/rstephe * * gpg key fingerprint: * 4255 FB43 17C8 2B80 8074 7DB6 7DD7 939B F3F6 CB92 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060814/8f78f8c2/attachment.htm From DennisR at dair.com Tue Aug 15 01:20:16 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:20:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> At 03:58 PM 8/14/2006, Robert Stephenson wrote: >I'd be happy to give a version of my OSCON talk on controlling a >full-screen presentation with python and a laser pointer. It deals >principally with some image analysis issues and python on the Mac (about >30 min worth). Thanks Robert, I heard that went well. Right now, Dec. 14th is open. Marilyn, what do you think of combining this with 45 minutes of IDE presentation (3x15 min) for our December meeting? >Also, someone had suggested a recap of OSCON highlights. I'd be happy to >contribute to that (about 5-10 min worth). >- Rob We now appear to be booked through the end of December 2006. IMO, conference reports at meetings are not something BayPiggies has done well. Insofar as Oscon is topical and newsworthy, I think it is better suited for blog and subscription list discussion. What about having discussion/reports on Oscon here on the mailing list? Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 01:39:09 2006 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:39:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> Message-ID: <44E1099D.2010807@gmail.com> Why not have the report during Mapping & Random Access? Donna M. Snow C Squared Technologies content management systems hosting - consulting - design Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > At 03:58 PM 8/14/2006, Robert Stephenson wrote: > >> I'd be happy to give a version of my OSCON talk on controlling a >> full-screen presentation with python and a laser pointer. It deals >> principally with some image analysis issues and python on the Mac (about >> 30 min worth). >> > > Thanks Robert, I heard that went well. Right now, Dec. 14th is open. > > Marilyn, what do you think of combining this with 45 minutes of IDE > presentation (3x15 min) for our December meeting? > > >> Also, someone had suggested a recap of OSCON highlights. I'd be happy to >> contribute to that (about 5-10 min worth). >> - Rob >> > > We now appear to be booked through the end of December 2006. IMO, > conference reports at meetings are not something BayPiggies has done > well. Insofar as Oscon is topical and newsworthy, I think it is better > suited for blog and subscription list discussion. > > What about having discussion/reports on Oscon here on the mailing list? > > Regards, Dennis > > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > From marilyn at deliberate.com Tue Aug 15 01:43:54 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:43:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> ----- On Monday, August 14, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > At 03:58 PM 8/14/2006, Robert Stephenson wrote: >>I'd be happy to give a version of my OSCON talk on controlling a >>full-screen presentation with python and a laser pointer. It deals >>principally with some image analysis issues and python on the Mac (about >>30 min worth). > > Thanks Robert, I heard that went well. Right now, Dec. 14th is open. > > Marilyn, what do you think of combining this with 45 minutes of IDE > presentation (3x15 min) for our December meeting? Tony, Ken, and Steve? Is this ok with you? It's fine with me but I don't count because I'm not part of it -- just helping to make it happen. It looks to me like some great talks are shaping up! Great work everyone. Marilyn > >>Also, someone had suggested a recap of OSCON highlights. I'd be happy to >>contribute to that (about 5-10 min worth). >>- Rob > > We now appear to be booked through the end of December 2006. IMO, > conference reports at meetings are not something BayPiggies has done > well. Insofar as Oscon is topical and newsworthy, I think it is better > suited for blog and subscription list discussion. > > What about having discussion/reports on Oscon here on the mailing list? > > Regards, Dennis > > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From DennisR at dair.com Tue Aug 15 02:22:40 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:22:40 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <44E1099D.2010807@gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814170351.00bf45a0@localhost> At 04:39 PM 8/14/2006, Donna M. Snow wrote: >Why not have the report during Mapping & Random Access? One of my unstated assumptions here is that proper coverage should have more than one speaker. Mapping is 15 minutes in its entirety. So far, I think we have had a single lively Mapping session at IronPort and none at Google. Squeezing the 15 minutes allocated to mapping would not be terribly missed. If we are going to tackle Oscon, let's do an organized job. Donna, for our September meeting, how does the following sound: 7:30-8:30 Plone (Donna) 8:30-8:50 Oscon reports (3-4 presenters) 8:50-9:00 Mapping and quick Oscon comments (Dennis) Now, we *can* do this. We can also discuss Oscon here on the list. Comments all? Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From hasan.diwan at gmail.com Tue Aug 15 05:03:03 2006 From: hasan.diwan at gmail.com (Hasan Diwan) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:03:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814170351.00bf45a0@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> <44E1099D.2010807@gmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814170351.00bf45a0@localhost> Message-ID: <2cda2fc90608142003m4e7aa3c7sc1165271cb9ffc2@mail.gmail.com> I'm working on porting Leopard's Time Machine back to previous versions of OS X. The primary implementation language is python and I'd love to give a talk on this once the specification is finished and available for use. -- Cheers, Hasan Diwan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060814/a34fb71a/attachment.htm From ken at seehart.com Tue Aug 15 06:52:06 2006 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:52:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060814163223.004901E4002@bag.python.org> References: <20060814163223.004901E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <44E152F6.5020102@seehart.com> Marilyn Davis wrote: > ----- On Sunday, August 13, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > > >> As Wes noted, JJ is leaving IronPort and the previous outcome here that our >> schedule at Google be expanded to monthly is further solidified. Our >> remaining 2006 schedule (all at Google 7:30 p.m.) then is: >> >> Sep. 14 Donna Snow: Plone >> Oct. 12 -- >> Nov. 9 Russ Paielli: air traffic controller >> Dec. 14 -- >> >> We have open meetings in Oct. and Dec. at this point. Russ, Oct. 12 is >> open at this time if you want to change your time. Carl J. Van Arsdall has >> indicated a future interest. Wes told me of two people may have an >> interest. Could I ask them that they declare there interest here on the >> list or to me for follow up since I am doing the coordination? >> >> Marilyn had mentioned a possible second IDE night. Previously, the >> earliest this would happen at Google was Jan 2007. We now have open 2006 >> slots. >> > > We have 3 or 4 demos lined up for anotheer IDE night. > > PythonWin -- Tony C. > Komodo -- Ken Seehart > SPE > PyDev -- Steve Hindle > > Did someone volunteer for SPE? I can't find it in the archives. > > Would anyone like to step up and offer a demo? > > Leslie gave the demo people free black Google shirts with: > > Python: > programming > the way > Guido > indented it > > on the back. Pretty cool. > > It could happen again. Or maybe she'll give the demo people new cars this time. > > Marilyn > > >> All: If you want to speak, please respond to the list or to me. If you >> want to nominate someone, I favor a response to me rather than the list >> unless you have reason to believe that someone is ok with discussion about >> them. >> >> Regards, Dennis >> >> ---------------------------------- >> | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | >> | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | >> ---------------------------------- >> I want the shirt. I already have a car. I already have a shirt too, but I've been told it is good to have an extra one. - Ken Seehart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060814/f6dc6dc6/attachment.htm From ken at seehart.com Tue Aug 15 06:56:20 2006 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:56:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <44E153F4.6050901@seehart.com> Marilyn Davis wrote: > ----- On Monday, August 14, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > > >> At 03:58 PM 8/14/2006, Robert Stephenson wrote: >> >>> I'd be happy to give a version of my OSCON talk on controlling a >>> full-screen presentation with python and a laser pointer. It deals >>> principally with some image analysis issues and python on the Mac (about >>> 30 min worth). >>> >> Thanks Robert, I heard that went well. Right now, Dec. 14th is open. >> >> Marilyn, what do you think of combining this with 45 minutes of IDE >> presentation (3x15 min) for our December meeting? >> > > Tony, Ken, and Steve? Is this ok with you? > > It's fine with me but I don't count because I'm not part of it -- just helping to make it happen. > > It looks to me like some great talks are shaping up! Great work everyone. > > Marilyn > Fine with me. - Ken Seehart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060814/96c84680/attachment.html From rdm at cfcl.com Tue Aug 15 22:11:19 2006 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:11:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] August 15: Andy Lester on Technical Debt Message-ID: This is a Perl Mongers event, but I think it is of general interest. Be sure to RSVP if you want to attend! -r > Andy will speak on technical debt and how to get out of it. > Technical debt is that nasty condition companies get into > where the codebase is crufty, poorly documented, and hard > to test, and everyone is terrified of changing anything. > > "Just like financial debt, it's the compound interest on > technical debt that snowballs until you can no longer > manage," Andy writes. Come learn how to pay down your > biggest debts before that happens. -- http://sf.pm.org/weblog/archives/00000036.html -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 07:29:44 2006 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:29:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0608152229o564a93f2rf220df27d0b17594@mail.gmail.com> > > > Marilyn, what do you think of combining this with 45 minutes of IDE > > presentation (3x15 min) for our December meeting? > > >>Tony, Ken, and Steve? Is this ok with you? It's OK with me- I think the time given for each of the presenters for the IDE presentations was too short. This is an improvement. I'm wondering if scheduling a meeting this close to the holidays is a good idea. A lot of people travel early in December. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060815/5b3efba7/attachment.htm From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 07:42:50 2006 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:42:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060814170351.00bf45a0@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060813181555.00be3b50@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814161332.00bfd450@localhost> <44E1099D.2010807@gmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20060814170351.00bf45a0@localhost> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0608152242h4d30a4ffj3eecf2ac8a0c10f5@mail.gmail.com> >>Mapping is 15 minutes in its entirety. How about keeping the mapping sessions as a filler, so presentations can run longer, and without being rushed? (not just for September's meeting, but in general) The previous Google meeting for the IDE demos is a prime example of not having enough time for each presentation. >>8:30-8:50 Oscon reports (3-4 presenters) Trying to squeeze 3-4 presenters into 20 minutes could be too much in too little time. It's likely there will be enough questions for each presenter which could result in running over. Of course, if only 2 people do reports, then 20 minutes may be enough time. Comments? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060815/3355c7ae/attachment.html From wescpy at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 08:54:32 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:54:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0608152229o564a93f2rf220df27d0b17594@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> <8249c4ac0608152229o564a93f2rf220df27d0b17594@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580608152354s77f218a3q22025b8bf20c100d@mail.gmail.com> > I'm wondering if scheduling a meeting this close to the holidays is a good > idea. A lot of people travel early in December. months where we do not expect a lot of ppl are good candidates for either a "newbies nite" or meeting offsite, say at a restaurant for more of a "roundtable" type of meeting. these are some of the things we have done in past meetings. -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From DennisR at dair.com Wed Aug 16 18:08:36 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:08:36 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0608152229o564a93f2rf220df27d0b17594@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060816081300.00bf3710@localhost> >TC> I'm wondering if scheduling a meeting this close to the holidays is a >good idea. >A lot of people travel early in December. Our traditional 2nd Thursday falls on the 14th, the latest possible date in December. Christmas falls on the 4th Monday. There is an entire week in between. Air travel is going to be a ratcheted-up hassle this year. For people to miss the meeting because they are traveling means they are taking off 3 weeks. This may happen but I don't see it as a huge effect. Perhaps the general business of the season is an issue but travel, per se, seems a minor impact on attendance. >>DR> 8:30-8:50 Oscon reports (3-4 presenters) TC> Trying to squeeze 3-4 presenters into 20 minutes could be too TC> much in too little time. ... if only 2 people do reports, then TC> 20 minutes may be enough time. Point taken. I was assuming here that material had been prepared with clear coverage responsibilities. If we do this (and I am dubious), I think the presenters should be identified in advance and they should know what others will cover so that duplication and holes are minimal. IMO, Oscon coverage is better handled here on the list via postings and blog links. TC> How about keeping the mapping sessions as a filler, so presentations TC> can run longer, and without being rushed? (not just for September's TC> meeting, but in general) Presently there are 75 minutes for presentations and 15 for mapping. IMO, the presentations are not "rushed". Look at Stanford EE380 lectures. Look at Google tech-talk videos. Look at any number of conference sessions. The norm is for a technical talk to take an hour. At 75 minutes allocated, we need not be "rushing". I would rather not have "filler" in any meeting. Either mapping pulls its own weight as a valuable contribution to the meeting or it doesn't. If we don't have the program to make the entire 90 minutes worthwhile, then let's end early. People's time is valuable. Perhaps you meant "buffer" rather than "filler". To some extent mapping can do this. If we cannot start at 7:30, then the whole schedule needs to slide and compress. So far, we have been relatively successful starting on time, and thusly, running on schedule. WC> months where we do not expect a lot of ppl are good candidates WC> for either a "newbies nite" or meeting offsite, say at a WC> restaurant for more of a "roundtable" type of meeting. I think we should avoid that. Unfocused meetings dilute the image of all the meetings. I would rather cancel than improvise. So far this year, the choice has not come up. As far as restaurant meetings, Brian already organizes that (rather successfully) on a regular basis. I did have some prior ambivalence about a Christmas meeting. But it looks like we have good meetings scheduled though the end of the year, including Dec. 14. Moving into 2007 & beyond ------------------------- Wes, I think you had mentioned earlier that BayPiggies may want to put in a bid to host Pycon (?) in 2008 (?) in the Bay area. Do you have more details on what the conference is and when the opening is? Who is interested in working to make this happen? ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From keith at kdart.com Thu Aug 17 20:33:20 2006 From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Where's JJ? Message-ID: <20060817113320.3ddab302@psyche.corp.google.com> Where did he go? :-) -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From keith at kdart.com Thu Aug 17 20:37:04 2006 From: keith at kdart.com (Keith Dart) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:37:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> References: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> Message-ID: <20060817113704.5b9ad8b1@psyche.corp.google.com> Aahz wrote the following on 2006-08-11 at 12:13 PDT: === > Why do you feel trepidation? === 1. Incompatible changes leading to code maintenance issues. 2. Less functionality for the "real world" (e.g. signals on posix systems). 3. More things like the long/int unification which just cause more work for me and provided no benefit. Is that baseless? BTW, I apologize for the late response. Between the time I first posted this and now I got a new baby girl. ;-) -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From guido at python.org Fri Aug 18 00:12:10 2006 From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:12:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Sprints next week at Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anyone here interested? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Neal Norwitz Date: Aug 17, 2006 2:15 PM Subject: [Python-Dev] Sprints next week at Google To: Python Dev This is a reminder (I don't think anyone else sent one, I sure hope not). We are holding 4 days of sprints next week at Google offices in NY city and Mt View, CA. These are open if you'd like to attend. It would be very helpful to pre-register on the wiki as we can notify security and generally make things easier. Of the full-time Googlers, Guido and Alex will be sprinting in CA and Jeremy and I will be sprinting in NY. http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleSprint Cheers, n _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From cappy2112 at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 01:09:31 2006 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:09:31 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thursday, August 24th, 2006 Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 RSVP: Not required, but send mail to rsvp at penlug.org if you can. More info: see www.penlug.org for directions and other stuff Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 The Python programming language is well-known and widespread, but many developers may be unfamiliar with the latest features, particularly those introduced in the 2.5 release (currently in Beta, and scheduled for definitive release in August). This talk presents many interesting new Python features, focusing on the 2.4 and 2.5 releases. Alex Martelli is Uber Technical Lead at Google, Inc. Martelli holds a laurea in Ingegneria Elettronica from Bologna University. He wrote Python in a Nutshell, and co-edited the Python Cookbook. He's a member of the Python Software Foundation, a Python committer, and the winner of the 2002 Activators' Choice Award and of the 2006 Frank Willison award for outstanding contribution to the Python community. Before Google, Martelli spent a year with Texas Instruments, 8 years with IBM Research, 12 as senior consultant for think3 inc; and three as a Python freelance consultant, mostly for AB Strakt. He has also taught Programming, Numerical Computing, and OO Design at Ferrara University and other venues. _____________________________________________ PenLUG-Announce mailing list PenLUG-Announce at penlug.org http://www.penlug.org/mailman/listinfo/penlug-announce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060817/4787f99b/attachment.htm From ken at seehart.com Fri Aug 18 01:52:48 2006 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:52:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: <20060817113704.5b9ad8b1@psyche.corp.google.com> References: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> <20060817113704.5b9ad8b1@psyche.corp.google.com> Message-ID: <44E50150.6090103@seehart.com> Keith Dart wrote: > Aahz wrote the following on 2006-08-11 at 12:13 PDT: > === > >> Why do you feel trepidation? >> > === > > 1. Incompatible changes leading to code maintenance issues. > All other things being equal, it is better not to introduce incompatible changes. One needs to weigh the relative value of improving the language against the inconvenience of introducing incompatibilities. IMHO the changes Guido intends for 3000 are significant improvements. These improvements are free for people writing new applications. I expect python to continue to grow in popularity, so (as Guido has pointed out in the past) the number of programmers writing new applications will probably eventually exceed those working with legacy 2.x code. Because of the clear delineation between 2.x and 3.x, and the continued support of 2.x, people with legacy code will certainly have the option of simply staying in 2.x. So far I've been very pleased with python's progress. I really do think python 2.5 is better than 1.52, and there are things that I do now that would have been impossible (except perhaps in Turing equivalent sense) in the early days. Getting from 1.52 to 2.5 involved incompatible changes on occasion, but I don't recall ever losing significant time during an upgrade. > 2. Less functionality for the "real world" (e.g. signals on posix > systems). > Huh? What is going to happen to posix signals? > 3. More things like the long/int unification which just cause more work > for me and provided no benefit. > "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck". Cleaning up numbers will make python squeaky clean! I think it's worth doing, but I also like that it is being saved for 3.0 to appease those of us who don't like incompatible changes. > Is that baseless? > Not at all. But you do have a choice of staying in 2.x for as long as you like. I have a feeling that the amount of continuing support for 2.x will be directly proportional to the degree of incompatibility introduced in 3000. I probably will only use 3000 for new projects for the first year or so. > BTW, I apologize for the late response. Between the time I first posted > this and now I got a new baby girl. ;-) > I imagine that you might find your life with a new baby girl incompatible with your life prior to having a new baby girl. Certainly you will have to deal with extra maintenance issues. However, I hope and believe that your life will nevertheless be greatly enriched by the experience. Congratulations and best wishes! - Ken Seehart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060817/f1a05dc2/attachment.htm From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Fri Aug 18 02:03:17 2006 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:03:17 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python 3000? In-Reply-To: <44E50150.6090103@seehart.com> References: <20060811191354.GA9764@panix.com> <20060817113704.5b9ad8b1@psyche.corp.google.com> <44E50150.6090103@seehart.com> Message-ID: > Keith Dart wrote: >> Aahz wrote the following on 2006-08-11 at 12:13 PDT: >> === >> >>> Why do you feel trepidation? >>> >> === >> >> 1. Incompatible changes leading to code maintenance issues. >> > All other things being equal, it is better not to introduce incompatible > changes. At least one incompatible change I'm dying to see - use unicode string by default. It is better to do it right once than muddling with whether something is byte string or if it is unicode string every step on the way. Wai Yip From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 05:04:43 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:04:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Where's JJ? In-Reply-To: <20060817113320.3ddab302@psyche.corp.google.com> References: <20060817113320.3ddab302@psyche.corp.google.com> Message-ID: On 8/17/06, Keith Dart wrote: > Where did he go? :-) I'm joining a startup with Mitch Kapor, chairman of the Mozilla Foundation. The startup is best summarized here: . I actually found the job posting on BayPiggies ;) I'll be employee number 3! (If you're wondering, IronPort is in excellent shape. I was just looking to try something new.) Happy Hacking! -jj From mech422 at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 12:51:51 2006 From: mech422 at gmail.com (Steve Hindle) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:51:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <9a0545880608180351t6f869b93ve0dcd1d64116a053@mail.gmail.com> On 8/14/06, Marilyn Davis wrote: > > Tony, Ken, and Steve? Is this ok with you? > Fine by me with the provisio I'm still in town... My parents are both ill and I might actually be taking a long xmas this year. Steve From mech422 at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 13:01:19 2006 From: mech422 at gmail.com (Steve Hindle) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:01:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060816081300.00bf3710@localhost> References: <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20060816081300.00bf3710@localhost> Message-ID: <9a0545880608180401r50dec032kfb40270c4961cbfa@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/06, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > > I would rather not have "filler" in any meeting. Either mapping pulls its > own weight as a valuable contribution to the meeting or it doesn't. If we > don't have the program to make the entire 90 minutes worthwhile, then let's > end early. People's time is valuable. > What exactly is 'mapping'? If you mean the 'free time' at the ends of the meetings to wander around and chat (I thought that was 'random access' ?) - thats my favorite part of the meeting and it definately 'pulls its own weight' for me :-) Steve From DennisR at dair.com Fri Aug 18 16:21:42 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:21:42 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <9a0545880608180401r50dec032kfb40270c4961cbfa@mail.gmail.co m> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060816081300.00bf3710@localhost> <20060814234357.C265F1E4002@bag.python.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20060816081300.00bf3710@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060818070828.00bf4680@localhost> At 04:01 AM 8/18/2006, Steve Hindle wrote: >What exactly is 'mapping'? If you mean the 'free time' at the ends of >the meetings to wander around and chat (I thought that was 'random >access' ?) - thats my favorite part of the meeting and it definately >'pulls its own weight' for me :-) mapping: the part of the meeting where one person at a time describes items of interest. Loosely from cpu address mapping hardware in that it is making a one-one connection between an address (person) and final destination (item of interest). Mapping is the last regularly scheduled item on the agenda. It's main purpose is to serve as an index into and guidepost for random access... random access: starts at 9:00 and follows mapping. Wander around and chat is a fine description. Loosely from cpu memory hardware in that connection can be made between any two people. The question under discussion is how much time to allocate for mapping. Regards, Dennis ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From marilyn at deliberate.com Fri Aug 18 17:46:28 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:46:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060818154631.94ECA1E4005@bag.python.org> ----- On Friday, August 18, 2006 mech422 at gmail.com wrote: > On 8/14/06, Marilyn Davis wrote: >> >> Tony, Ken, and Steve? Is this ok with you? >> > > Fine by me with the provisio I'm still in town... My parents are both > ill and I might actually be taking a long xmas this year. I'm sorry to hear it. Dennis, I'm not sure we should count on the IDE's for December because if Steve is with his parents, we are down to only two. However, I note that the other two, Ken and Tony, have declared themselves able to come. I want to congratulate Keith on his new baby girl. That's wonderful! Marilyn > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From cappy2112 at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 18:06:50 2006 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:06:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060818154631.94ECA1E4005@bag.python.org> References: <20060818154631.94ECA1E4005@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0608180906m6611a064if02da8ff95700847@mail.gmail.com> > >>However, I note that the other two, Ken and Tony, have declared > themselves able to come. As of now, yes. But the closer it ges to Dec that may change. This is why I think we shouldn't have a meeting in Dec. Personal schedules are just too volatile that time of the year. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060818/41625f04/attachment.html From DennisR at dair.com Fri Aug 18 18:16:49 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:16:49 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings In-Reply-To: <20060818154631.94ECA1E4005@bag.python.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060818085533.00bea1c8@localhost> At 08:46 AM 8/18/2006, Marilyn Davis wrote: >Dennis, I'm not sure we should count on the IDE's for December because if >Steve is with his parents, we are down to only two. > >However, I note that the other two, Ken and Tony, have declared themselves >able to come. Marilyn, If mapping is 15 minutes, there are 75 minutes for presentation. Robert Stephenson is estimating 30 minutes for python/laser pointer. That leaves 45 minutes for IDE. Putting 4 IDE speakers in 45 minutes could be tight. 2 IDE speakers seems a better fit than 4. I know from other communication with Tony that too little time is a concern to him. He asks for 15 minutes, minimum. I think two IDE talks combined with Robert's talk for December is a fine plan for a meeting that is 4 months into the future. Nothing prevents putting Steve in at some other time. ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From marilyn at deliberate.com Fri Aug 18 18:57:14 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060818165716.8AB0A1E4005@bag.python.org> ----- On Friday, August 18, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > At 08:46 AM 8/18/2006, Marilyn Davis wrote: >>Dennis, I'm not sure we should count on the IDE's for December because if >>Steve is with his parents, we are down to only two. >> >>However, I note that the other two, Ken and Tony, have declared themselves >>able to come. > > Marilyn, > > If mapping is 15 minutes, there are 75 minutes for presentation. Robert > Stephenson is estimating 30 minutes for python/laser pointer. That leaves > 45 minutes for IDE. Putting 4 IDE speakers in 45 minutes could be > tight. 2 IDE speakers seems a better fit than 4. I know from other > communication with Tony that too little time is a concern to him. He asks > for 15 minutes, minimum. > > I think two IDE talks combined with Robert's talk for December is a fine > plan for a meeting that is 4 months into the future. Nothing prevents > putting Steve in at some other time. Well, now we have two iffy presenters: >From Tony: > As of now, yes. But the closer it ges to Dec that may change. > This is why I think we shouldn't have a meeting in Dec. Personal schedules > are just too volatile that time of the year. But maybe 2 iffies are about the same as one solid. So if you are happy with 2-ish IDE presenters, it's ok with me. If we get really stuck at the last minute, I can come prepared to do a "Python Pitfalls" session, or something from my class materials. And I'm always happy to do a last-minute "Why Python?" slide show, which has matured since I did the first pass a while back. Marilyn > > > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From marilyn at deliberate.com Fri Aug 18 19:31:23 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:31:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060818173125.BB5FE1E4004@bag.python.org> ----- On Friday, August 18, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: >>TC> This is why I think we shouldn't have a meeting in Dec. >>MD> So if you are happy with 2-ish IDE presenters, it's ok with me. >>If we get really stuck at the last minute, I can come prepared to do a >>"Python Pitfalls" session, or something from my class materials. >> >>And I'm always happy to do a last-minute "Why Python?" slide show, which >>has matured since I did the first pass a while back. > > Those are great additions and I may have others I am aware of. Hasan Diwan > wants to speak before spring and I would rather give him a 15 minute time > slot than a 30 minute one. He does not know when his project will be > finished but he does project before spring. > > Here is another thought. Tony posted a link to Alex's talk at > http://penlug.org, a linux user group in Belmont. They meet 4th Thursday > except Nov and Dec, when they meet on 2nd Thursday. Hmmm... that is a > conflict with us. Perhaps if December meeting might have lower attendance, > we could have a joint meeting. > > Punlug meeting time is 7:00 to 9:00 vs. our meetings starting at > 7:30. What do you think about a joint meeting? Me? I was all prepared to say that there's no way I'm going up to Belmont. But, it looks like a snap to get there from Caltrain, so I'm willing, if that's where it ends up. I notice that they have posted meeting topics through September. Sept is AJAX, which my son is very enthusiastic about, and he has made some amazing web pages with it. For a joint meeting to work, I guess it should be relevent to both Python and Linux. Too bad Alex's talk isn't December. I have no idea how to make it happen, but Dennis, I'll bet you can do it if folks think it's a good idea. Marilyn > > Dennis > ---------------------------------- > | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | > | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | > ---------------------------------- From marilyn at deliberate.com Fri Aug 18 19:50:05 2006 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Planning remaining 2006 meetings Message-ID: <20060818175009.3BC641E400D@bag.python.org> I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Dennis' message was private. If the reply-to from list mail went to the list, then I'd trust it when it put in the personal address instead. But, that's not meant as an excuse. I'm sorry. I'll try to be more careful. Marilyn ----- On Friday, August 18, 2006 marilyn at deliberate.com wrote: > ----- On Friday, August 18, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote: > >>>TC> This is why I think we shouldn't have a meeting in Dec. >>>MD> So if you are happy with 2-ish IDE presenters, it's ok with me. >>>If we get really stuck at the last minute, I can come prepared to do a >>>"Python Pitfalls" session, or something from my class materials. >>> >>>And I'm always happy to do a last-minute "Why Python?" slide show, which >>>has matured since I did the first pass a while back. >> >> Those are great additions and I may have others I am aware of. Hasan Diwan >> wants to speak before spring and I would rather give him a 15 minute time >> slot than a 30 minute one. He does not know when his project will be >> finished but he does project before spring. >> >> Here is another thought. Tony posted a link to Alex's talk at >> http://penlug.org, a linux user group in Belmont. They meet 4th Thursday >> except Nov and Dec, when they meet on 2nd Thursday. Hmmm... that is a >> conflict with us. Perhaps if December meeting might have lower attendance, >> we could have a joint meeting. >> >> Punlug meeting time is 7:00 to 9:00 vs. our meetings starting at >> 7:30. What do you think about a joint meeting? > > Me? I was all prepared to say that there's no way I'm going up to Belmont. > But, it looks like a snap to get there from Caltrain, so I'm willing, if > that's where it ends up. > > I notice that they have posted meeting topics through September. Sept is > AJAX, which my son is very enthusiastic about, and he has made some amazing > web pages with it. > > For a joint meeting to work, I guess it should be relevent to both Python and > Linux. Too bad Alex's talk isn't December. > > I have no idea how to make it happen, but Dennis, I'll bet you can do it if > folks think it's a good idea. > > Marilyn > >> >> Dennis >> ---------------------------------- >> | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | >> | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | >> ---------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From DennisR at dair.com Fri Aug 18 22:36:31 2006 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:36:31 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Seeking Oscon Reports Sep. 14 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060818132602.00be2bb8@localhost> There are 20 minutes available for reports on Oscon in our Sept 14 meeting. We already have two reports lined up: Leslie Hawthorn - Google involvement at Oscon (5 min) Robert Stephenson - AI and Python presentation (5 min) In the 10 min remaining I would like to solicit in order of preference (1) a single conference overview (10 minutes) (2) an overview or individual session reviews (5 min ea.) ---------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://WinAjax.com | ---------------------------------- From donnamsnow at gmail.com Sat Aug 19 02:33:51 2006 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:33:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] PyGTK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44E65C6F.4060608@gmail.com> Welcome to the list, Scott! Sounds like you've got some interesting projects in the works. Donna M. Snow C Squared Technologies content management systems hosting-consulting-design From rdm at cfcl.com Mon Aug 21 16:19:03 2006 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:19:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Beer and Scripting SIG (BASS) - reminder Message-ID: The Beer & Scripting SIG (http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass) will take place Wednesday evening, 8/23. Be there or be elsewhere! In case you were wondering, the discussions at BASS gatherings are not, erm, scripted. Rather, they reflect the interests of whatever scripters happen to show up that evening. One recent gathering focused on databases (especially PostgreSQL); other gatherings have discussed the vagaries of doing scripting for a living, which languages folks like (and why), etc. Sometimes, folks bring in books that they have recently read, software that they want to show off, etc. The informal nature of the gatherings allows this, as long as it doesn't conflict with important things like ordering and eating food! Also note that the calendar of Bay Area Scripting Events is available and open to submissions (all your BASE are belong to us :-). * webcal://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics * http://cfcl.com/pub_dav/BA_Scripting_Groups.ics and that the list of local scripting groups is online at SF Bay Area Scripting Groups http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From jjinux at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 05:01:52 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:01:52 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/17/06, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > Date: Thursday, August 24th, 2006 > Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM > Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 > RSVP: Not required, but send mail to rsvp at penlug.org if you can. > More info: see www.penlug.org for directions and other stuff > > Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 > > The Python programming language is well-known and widespread, but many > developers may be unfamiliar with the latest features, particularly > those introduced in the 2.5 release (currently in Beta, and scheduled > for definitive release in August). This talk presents many interesting > new Python features, focusing on the 2.4 and 2.5 releases. > > Alex Martelli is Uber Technical Lead at Google, Inc. Martelli holds a > laurea in Ingegneria Elettronica from Bologna University. He wrote > Python in a Nutshell, and co-edited the Python Cookbook. He's a member > of the Python Software Foundation, a Python committer, and the winner > of the 2002 Activators' Choice Award and of the 2006 Frank Willison > award for outstanding contribution to the Python community. Before > Google, Martelli spent a year with Texas Instruments, 8 years with IBM > Research, 12 as senior consultant for think3 inc; and three as a > Python freelance consultant, mostly for AB Strakt. He has also taught > Programming, Numerical Computing, and OO Design at Ferrara University > and other venues. I really wish I could attend this, but I just can't. Alex, are you going to share your slides? Best Regards, -jj From aleax at google.com Tue Aug 22 06:36:09 2006 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:36:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0608212136s46fb7366n35bd3aca30bd4b7b@mail.google.com> On 8/21/06, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: ... > I really wish I could attend this, but I just can't. Alex, are you > going to share your slides? Sure, they're at http://www.aleax.it/Python/penlug06.pdf (and they're also the same set I presented at Ubucon last week -- though last week I had to rush, on Thu evening I'll be able to keep a far more leisurely pace:-). Also note that my yahoo.com address is one I hardly use any more (they'd want money from me to let me receive that mail via POP3...) -- I use gmail instead (free POP3 access, among other things:-) -- I changed the cc line accordingly and I suggest y'all change my entry in your addressbooks:-). Alex From wescpy at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 06:48:30 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:48:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0608212136s46fb7366n35bd3aca30bd4b7b@mail.google.com> References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> <55dc209b0608212136s46fb7366n35bd3aca30bd4b7b@mail.google.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580608212148y59147ce8xa266a86d01fa0a60@mail.gmail.com> > changed the cc line accordingly and I suggest y'all change my entry in alex has obviously been here in america way too long now ... "y'all"?!? ;-) From webmaven at cox.net Tue Aug 22 17:48:28 2006 From: webmaven at cox.net (Michael Bernstein) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:48:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580608212148y59147ce8xa266a86d01fa0a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> <55dc209b0608212136s46fb7366n35bd3aca30bd4b7b@mail.google.com> <78b3a9580608212148y59147ce8xa266a86d01fa0a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1156261708.24563.341.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-08-21 at 21:48 -0700, wesley chun wrote: > > changed the cc line accordingly and I suggest y'all change my entry in > > alex has obviously been here in america way too long now ... "y'all"?!? ;-) And yet, he got it wrong. It obviously should have been "all y'all". ;-) - Michael R. Bernstein michaelbernstein.com From kenobi at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 21:28:47 2006 From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:28:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [PenLUG-Announce] PenLUG next week - Alex Martelli, Python 2.4 and 2.5 In-Reply-To: <1156261708.24563.341.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3d2fe1780608171404s12e02f1dk4309e89a5b6d05f5@mail.gmail.com> <8249c4ac0608171609w3c3a1297hbe7a362ae579d62f@mail.gmail.com> <55dc209b0608212136s46fb7366n35bd3aca30bd4b7b@mail.google.com> <78b3a9580608212148y59147ce8xa266a86d01fa0a60@mail.gmail.com> <1156261708.24563.341.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 8/22/06, Michael Bernstein wrote: > On Mon, 2006-08-21 at 21:48 -0700, wesley chun wrote: > > > changed the cc line accordingly and I suggest y'all change my entry in > > > > alex has obviously been here in america way too long now ... "y'all"?!? ;-) > > And yet, he got it wrong. It obviously should have been "all y'all". ;-) No, I think he got it right. Perfectly good English, just like "what's y'all doin'?" :-) [Heard years ago from a Kentucky transplant to California. All indigenous American speech. But the poor Santa Monica beach folk did a double-take when they heard that. :-] From kavityp at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 23:49:24 2006 From: kavityp at gmail.com (Kavita p) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:49:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Python Developer Message-ID: Python Developer Pls send resumes to kavita at tbiinn.org or kavityp at gmail.com Location: San Jose, CA Duration: 4-6 months+ Responsibility Develop, design and deploy the tools to support N-Tier CMS Systems. Automation tools will be used for : - Deploying new software to all the servers. - Authentication for Systems. - Deploying data to all servers. - Monitoring Skills Must Have - 3-5 Yrs of Development experience - Solid understand of Python - Good working knowledge of Linux - Comfortable with Perl, PHP, C, HTML, __Javascript. - Working experience with MySQL or Postgress - Socket programming experience is plus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060822/8d13f9a9/attachment.html From knaveed_ebay33 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 23:23:31 2006 From: knaveed_ebay33 at yahoo.com (Need Help) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] asd Message-ID: <20060823212331.50684.qmail@web57111.mail.re3.yahoo.com> http://207.97.216.145/signup/add.aspx?keyword=discussion+groups&source=1 --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060823/2dc1a8dd/attachment.htm From huiliu001 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 29 20:40:12 2006 From: huiliu001 at yahoo.com (Hui Liu) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] John Dooly's memorial service: 8/31 4:00pm Message-ID: <20060829184012.24319.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry that I have to post my first like this. John Dooly was my co-worker. We had worked very closely in the last several months. John mentioned to me many times about the Python group he involved and he was very proud of it. He loved to use Python to solve automation issues. John had a heart attack and passed away on last Friday around 4:00am. Our company (Savi Technology) tried to reach his family and friends. He did not have any family member here. His sister and brothers are in east coast and Canada. Our company is going to have a memorial service for John at Thusday, 8/31, 4:00pm. The place is our back parking lot. I encourage you to come and say a final goodbye to our dear friend. Regards, Hui Liu Savi Technology 615 Tasman Dr Sunnyvale, CA 94089 --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060829/85a0045a/attachment.html From jason at bitfish.org Wed Aug 30 00:46:20 2006 From: jason at bitfish.org (jason at bitfish.org) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:46:20 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] JOB: Configuration Management Engineer -- PDI/DreamWorks Message-ID: Hi, We are looking for a build and release engineer for the CM group at PDI/Dreamworks in Redwood City. Our build and release system has been written in Make, Perl, Python, and some C/C++. We are currently moving this system to Python as well as many other systems in our studio. This position will involve using Python to interface with the build system's Oracle backend, wrapping CVS with Python scripts, and other CM work which will be done in Python. The full description is below. Please email me if you have any questions or are interested. thanks, ~jason -- Jason Williams jwilliams at pdi.com Research and Development PDI/DreamWorks =========== Configuration Management Engineer This "Configuration Management Engineer" will be working with all of our software development staff to support a large suite of in-house production tools. We are maintaining a medium size code base of mostly C & C++ libraries and applications (currently using CVS). The build system uses "gmake" and custom python and perl scripts in a RedHat Linux environment. The build system currently delivers software to two geographically separate studio and will soon be delivering tools internationally. Responsibilities: Maintaining and improving the build system as it evolves and working with related departments on integrating a new software versioning system and release mechanism. This position will most likely involve interacting with and supporting users in other countries. You will be working with the Systems Department regarding any upgrades that may affect the development environment, distribution, etc. Requirements: Familiarity with CVS, Python, C++, Perl, GNU Make, Unix. Extensive experience with source code management. Extensive experience with release management. Exceptional organizational and problem solving skills. Proactive in trouble-shooting and good team player. Solid communication and people skills. From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 23:42:36 2006 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:42:36 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Guys, I need to do some data processing, and I'd like to use a cluster so that I don't have to grow old waiting for my computer to finish. I'm thinking about using the servers I have locally. I'm completely new to clustering. I understand how to break a problem up into paralizable pieces, but I don't understand the admin side of it. My current data set is about 16 gigs, and I need to do things like run filters over strings, make sure strings are unique, etc. I'll be using Python wherever possible. * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro? Do they all have to be the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine? * What does "Beowulf" do for me? * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same command n times? * I've heard that MPI is good and standard. Should I use it? Can I use it with Python programs? * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data? * What hip, slick, and cool these days? I just need you point me in the right direction and tell me what's good and what's a waste of time. Thanks, -jj From bos at serpentine.com Thu Aug 31 00:16:41 2006 From: bos at serpentine.com (Bryan O'Sullivan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:16:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1156976201.19942.32.camel@sardonyx> On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 14:42 -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro? Do they all have to be > the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine? It's a big help if all of your cluster machines are similar, unless you want to go insane debugging differences in output due to seemingly insignificant local configuration differences. I'd recommend taking a look at the Rocks clustering distribution. It's based on CentOS, with some features to make PC clustering and administration less painful. > * What does "Beowulf" do for me? Nothing. It used to be a clustering technology for Linux boxes, back in the days of Pentium Pro class hardware, but hasn't existed in any meaningful form in years. It lives on as a zombie term without any real semantics :-) > * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same command n times? Google for "parallel ssh". A decent clustering distro (Rocks or Oscar) will have one bundled. > * I've heard that MPI is good and standard. Should I use it? Depends on what you want to do. It's just a standard for message passing library and runtime, the API providing some features for managing group communications. It's only a bit more abstract than raw sockets, so you should expect plenty of deadlocks, wrong answers, and performance problems as you develop your MPI programs :-) > Can I > use it with Python programs? Google for "Python MPI" :-) > * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data? If you don't mind living on the utterly bleedingest of edges, there are dedicated clustering filesystems like GFS and Lustre available. There's also a standard MPI interface for I/O, called MPI-IO. If you have a small cluster (16 nodes is small) and not much data (16GB isn't much), you should consider just preloading the data onto local disk on each node and forget about network filesystems altogether. The cluster filesystems require you to perform intimate and unnatural acts that I suspect you may not enjoy. References: Message-ID: <9a0545880608301539g975587fi14d5db7af1ad0c83@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/06, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > paralizable pieces, but I don't understand the admin side of it. My > current data set is about 16 gigs, and I need to do things like run > filters over strings, make sure strings are unique, etc. I'll be > using Python wherever possible. Sounds like fun :-) * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro? Do they all have to be > the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine? You can use just about any linux distro - it's easier if all the 'compute' nodes run the same distro. This allows you to boot the nodes via tftp and only have 1 'compute root image' to juggle. * What does "Beowulf" do for me? It's the basic cluster infra-structure * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same command n > times? tftp boot with a single 'compute' image. There are also a bunch of cluster admin tools - check freshmeat (also tools for building images for cluster nodes) * I've heard that MPI is good and standard. Should I use it? Can I > use it with Python programs? I've never worked with it - but it does appear to be the 'standard' for cluster work. * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data? personally, I just s/NFS/Samba/ these days. Given some higher end hardware, you might want to look at GFS ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060830/ec8d67e0/attachment.html From mech422 at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 00:45:31 2006 From: mech422 at gmail.com (Steve Hindle) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:45:31 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: <1156976201.19942.32.camel@sardonyx> References: <1156976201.19942.32.camel@sardonyx> Message-ID: <9a0545880608301545g689848d8u87d7890690376e7b@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/06, Bryan O'Sullivan wrote: > > > * What does "Beowulf" do for me? > > Nothing. It used to be a clustering technology for Linux boxes, back in > the days of Pentium Pro class hardware, but hasn't existed in any > meaningful form in years. It lives on as a zombie term without any real > semantics :-) > > Wow - Beowulf is gone? Any idea if Don Becker's clustering company is still around ? Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20060830/096d34ee/attachment.htm From dekonerding at lbl.gov Thu Aug 31 00:47:11 2006 From: dekonerding at lbl.gov (David E. Konerding) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Hey Guys, > > I need to do some data processing, and I'd like to use a cluster so > that I don't have to grow old waiting for my computer to finish. I'm > thinking about using the servers I have locally. I'm completely new > to clustering. I understand how to break a problem up into > paralizable pieces, but I don't understand the admin side of it. My > current data set is about 16 gigs, and I need to do things like run > filters over strings, make sure strings are unique, etc. I'll be > using Python wherever possible. > You might need to be a bit more verbose about the specific details of your dataset and the processing that needs to be done. For example, you are running operations on each of the strings that ultimately have to be collected back at the master node. Is it as simple as partitioning your 16gig dataset over all the nodes equally, running the map-like operations on the cluster nodes, then running the reduce-like operation as a communication between the master and the cluster nodes? Or will there need to be multiple reductions and redistributions of data? > * Do I have to run a particular Linux distro? Do they all have to be > the same, or can I just setup a daemon on each machine? > > You can have a heterogenous cluster. You will have to do a bit more work (depending on the variability) > * What does "Beowulf" do for me? > > There is no product "Beowulf"; it's more a description of a collection of technologies strapped together to make cheap supercomputers. It's worth reading about because the people who work on beowful clusters have typically done much of your homework for you. > * How do I admin all the boxes without having to enter the same command n times? > > I use cfengine; define rules which can include commands to be run, files to be copied, etc. You can sit on an admin box and push updates to all the nodes. > * I've heard that MPI is good and standard. Should I use it? Can I > use it with Python programs? > > You can (see MPI Python, and PyPar). I never thought it was a good idea. MPI is about extracting that last bit of efficiency out of supercomputers for tasks in which the parallelism has to be very tightly coupled to achieve efficiency. Writing good MPI code is hard; administrating MPI clusters is painful. Your time is better spent writing a lightweight parallelism interface using the existing lightweight networking code in Python, or in an add-on package like Pyro or Twisted. > * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data? > Disks are cheap; fragment your dataset and put chunks on each one. Heck, you could even put a web server on an admin node, put the data there, and have your clients request parts of the data as necessary. > * What hip, slick, and cool these days? > > Err... well, web and grid services get a lot of attention, but you need to put a big investment up front in the infrastructure and design before you see any benefits. I wouldn't really call them hip, slick, or cool. > I just need you point me in the right direction and tell me what's > good and what's a waste of time. > I think you should look at the Python documentation for XMLRPC and/or Pyro. Build an ultra-simple XMLRPC server that runs on all the cluster machines, that allows you to upload python code fragments and execute them. Build another XMLRPC server that runs on the admin machine, when cluster machines finish their jobs, just have them upload their results to the admin machine for final reduction. Dave From millman at berkeley.edu Thu Aug 31 01:36:19 2006 From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:36:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: <44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov> References: <44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov> Message-ID: The ipython developers have a nice write up about how their new design will handle interactive parallel computing: http://projects.scipy.org/ipython/ipython/wiki/NewDesign/ParallelOverview It includes a short description of the main flavors of parallel programming. If you are interested in grid computing, you should check out: https://bosshog.lbl.gov/zope/projects/pyGrid/pyGridPlone/pyGridware Jarrod From bos at serpentine.com Thu Aug 31 01:46:09 2006 From: bos at serpentine.com (Bryan O'Sullivan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:46:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: <9a0545880608301545g689848d8u87d7890690376e7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1156976201.19942.32.camel@sardonyx> <9a0545880608301545g689848d8u87d7890690376e7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1156981569.19942.45.camel@sardonyx> On Wed, 2006-08-30 at 15:45 -0700, Steve Hindle wrote: > Wow - Beowulf is gone? For a long time. > Any idea if Don Becker's clustering company is still around ? They got bought by Penguin Computing last year. References: <9a0545880608301539g975587fi14d5db7af1ad0c83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060831022548.GA6106@panix.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006, Steve Hindle wrote: > > personally, I just s/NFS/Samba/ these days. Could you expand that? What's the benefit of switching an existing NFS installation to Samba? -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ I support the RKAB From aahz at pythoncraft.com Thu Aug 31 04:26:19 2006 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:26:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060831022619.GB6106@panix.com> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > * Is there anything better than NFS that I could use to access the data? I'll just second the advice to do anything you can to move the data to local disk. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ I support the RKAB From andywiggin at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 06:30:10 2006 From: andywiggin at gmail.com (Andy Wiggin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:30:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] clustering In-Reply-To: References: <44F6156F.9090309@lbl.gov> Message-ID: <74e7428a0608302130r7b86036axb24fd631fc0af15@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/06, Jarrod Millman wrote: > The ipython developers have a nice write up about how their new design > will handle > interactive parallel computing: > http://projects.scipy.org/ipython/ipython/wiki/NewDesign/ParallelOverview > I don't have first hand experience with this stuff, but I was researching this style of computing a while back. I would look at what the scipy project is doing, and in general look at the techniques used by the gene crunching folks (e.g., http://biopython.org/), as they tend to use scripting, parallelization, and large data sets. I liked these presentations, apparently produced by Enthought. They may be a bit dated at this point, however. http://www.iwce.nanohub.org/talks/python/python_talk1.pdf http://www.iwce.nanohub.org/talks/python/python_talk2.pdf Page 47 of talk 2 starts an overview of parallel programming with python. COW might meet your needs as it's a pretty low rent method for parallel job execution, and probably easier than cooking up your own RPC solution. Good luck. Sounds like fun! -Andy