From gstaas at pdfdream.com  Fri Dec  1 07:39:43 2006
From: gstaas at pdfdream.com (Gary Staas)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:39:43 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Surfeit of messages
In-Reply-To: <67e4bff947ad13e5df2438eb21c4c2f6@well.com>
References: <008901c7139e$93bb88d0$0201a8c0@BEAU>
	<20061129151918.GB4678@panix.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0611290859290.1049@S.culver.net>
	<67e4bff947ad13e5df2438eb21c4c2f6@well.com>
Message-ID: <2270C948-F647-48FC-8548-C7BD3D62F109@pdfdream.com>

I am reluctant to make a negative comment, but seeing so many  
messages commenting and complaining about one recruiter is worse than  
the one recruiter's message, from my point of view. At least I only  
had to delete one message to get rid of the recruiter's message. All  
these commentaries make it more difficult to extract useful  
information from Baypiggies e-mail, such as meeting topics.  
Unfortunately, this is not the first flurry of e-mails that I've seen  
like this. I appreciate getting useful information on Baypiggies, so  
I don't want to get off the list, but when I see this kind of thing,  
I'm tempted to do so.
Gary Staas

On Nov 29, 2006, at 9:27 AM, jim stockford wrote:

>
>     i agree, although SIG lists may suffer from
> wanton job postings. I like the kind of rule
> that permits job postings that are appropriate
> to the group as well as brief and to the point.
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2006, at 8:59 AM, Mike Cheponis wrote:
>
>> Who makes these rules?
>>
>> I think they are not in the best interests of our membership.
>>
>> Thanks, -Mike
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Aahz wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:19:18 -0800
>>> From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
>>> To: Beau Gould <beau at open-source-staffing.com>
>>> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2006, Beau Gould wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just heard through the grapevine that one of my client's was  
>>>> going
>>>> to
>>>> be hiring a senior-level Zope/Python Programmer for their San Mateo
>>>> office
>>>>
>>>> Beau J. Gould
>>>> Open Source Staffing
>>>
>>> Unless you are the actual hiring company, please do not post job ads
>>> on
>>> BayPIGgies.  See the rules at
>>>
>>> http://baypiggies.net/jobs.html
>>> -- 
>>> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy
>>> and a
>>> dictatorship.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From marilyn at deliberate.com  Sat Dec  2 00:19:42 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:19:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Guido's talk
Message-ID: <20061201231945.875BF1E400E@bag.python.org>

If you missed Guido's talk, you might like this:

http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2006/11/google-mondrian.html

The tool Guido has been making is really exciting but ... you have to work at Google to get to use it!

Marilyn Davis





From DennisR at dair.com  Sat Dec  2 00:52:35 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:52:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20611290958s5073497fm6da6bb7047291f05@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <00c201c713e7$751a9d00$0201a8c0@BEAU>
	<20061129151918.GB4678@panix.com>
	<00c201c713e7$751a9d00$0201a8c0@BEAU>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201152036.023a02d0@localhost>

At 09:58 AM 11/29/2006, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>Sorry, but we hate recruiters here. We have very good reasons.

I'm sorry too.

The world looks very much differently to me, now having reached 63 years 
old and being unemployed.

I have contemplated doing this for a while now and seeing this divergence 
between what I need and the norm here seals my timing: I am resigning from 
arranging future Baypiggies meetings.

The December meeting is uncertain at this point as 3 out of 4 purported 
speakers have not responded to off list requests and the 4th has responded 
but cannot commit to attending.  Marilyn Davis is responsible for the fate 
of the December meeting.

The January meeting is pretty much setup with a reprised Plone talk with 
emphasis on BayPiggies site.

The first meeting needing to be set up is Feb. 2007.

I am open to someone stepping in immediately but no later than necessary to 
arrange our Feb. 2007 meeting.

Dennis
  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Dec  2 01:11:29 2006
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 16:11:29 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Guido's talk
In-Reply-To: <20061201231945.875BF1E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20061201231945.875BF1E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20061202001129.GB8113@panix.com>

On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Marilyn Davis wrote:
>
> If you missed Guido's talk, you might like this:
> 
> http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2006/11/google-mondrian.html

...and you can't get to it because it's been Slashdotted:

http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/01/1952205
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club  

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  2 01:31:05 2006
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 16:31:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies]  ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201152036.023a02d0@localhost>
Message-ID: <BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>


I suggest now is the time to:
- define a small board of officers,
- define their responsibilities
(e.g. organizer, webmaster(s), meeting scheduler, email moderator)
and
- hold an election as part of the Feb meeting.
Otherwise things will continue to be as before, without a charter and
a formal structure.

Running BayPIGgies is a large task. We seriously need a board of officers.
Thanks Dennis for your strong contribution.

I avoided commenting on the recruiter mail - but I think it proves the need
for a separate 'baypiggies-jobs at python.org' list for those of us (incl. me)
who do not work full-time in Python, and welcome Pythonic job posts.
This would solve that issue for all of us.

Regards,
Stephen

>From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
>To: baypiggies at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
>Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:52:35 -0800
>
>At 09:58 AM 11/29/2006, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >Sorry, but we hate recruiters here. We have very good reasons.
>
>I'm sorry too.
>
>The world looks very much differently to me, now having reached 63 years
>old and being unemployed.
>
>I have contemplated doing this for a while now and seeing this divergence
>between what I need and the norm here seals my timing: I am resigning from
>arranging future Baypiggies meetings.
>
>The December meeting is uncertain at this point as 3 out of 4 purported
>speakers have not responded to off list requests and the 4th has responded
>but cannot commit to attending.  Marilyn Davis is responsible for the fate
>of the December meeting.
>
>The January meeting is pretty much setup with a reprised Plone talk with
>emphasis on BayPiggies site.
>
>The first meeting needing to be set up is Feb. 2007.
>
>I am open to someone stepping in immediately but no later than necessary to
>arrange our Feb. 2007 meeting.
>
>Dennis

_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces 
friends module. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Dec  2 01:46:06 2006
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 16:46:06 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201152036.023a02d0@localhost>
	<BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20061202004606.GA29221@panix.com>

On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Stephen McInerney wrote:
> 
> Running BayPIGgies is a large task. We seriously need a board of officers.

<shrug>  I won't stand in your way, but I'll note that the job is IMO
precisely as big as you want it to be.  Things were not broken before,
and they won't be broken as long as the mailing list is here and someone
takes charge of making a meeting place available.  The meetings will take
care of themselves somehow if those two conditions are met.

I will agree that things work better if there is organization, I just
caution against gloom-and-doom if there is much less organization than
has been done recently.

Side note: I suggest that the February meeting be used for people who
want to practice a PyCon presentation.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club  

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Sat Dec  2 02:19:57 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 17:19:57 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
Message-ID: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>


----- On Friday, December 1, 2006 DennisR at dair.com wrote:

> At 09:58 AM 11/29/2006, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>Sorry, but we hate recruiters here. We have very good reasons.
> 
> I'm sorry too.

I'm sorry that this list isn't a sweeter place.  One of the big attractions of Python, for a teacher, is that it lowers the bar a big notch on what it takes to be a programmer.  

Accordingly, I wish the power-that-is was kinder, less intimidating and expected that non-programmers, first-time programmers, and students were around, not just gurus.

And I wish that the role of power-that-is, i.e. the list adminstrator, was a role that had some mechanism for change.  I remember that JJ volunteered to take the role and that no mechanism appeared for transferring it.

But, my wishes are powerless.

> 
> The world looks very much differently to me, now having reached 63 years
> old and being unemployed.
> 
> I have contemplated doing this for a while now and seeing this divergence
> between what I need and the norm here seals my timing: I am resigning from
> arranging future Baypiggies meetings.
> 
> The December meeting is uncertain at this point as 3 out of 4 purported
> speakers have not responded to off list requests and the 4th has responded
> but cannot commit to attending.  Marilyn Davis is responsible for the fate
> of the December meeting.

Oh dear.  Because only 1 of the purported speakers has given me a blurb for his talk, and because nagging is too boring for me to do, and because December is a hard month to arrange or attend anything, I think it's a good idea to skip it.  In fact, it would help me a lot to skip it because there is party that night that I would like to attend.

Does anyone object?

> The January meeting is pretty much setup with a reprised Plone talk with
> emphasis on BayPiggies site.
> 
> The first meeting needing to be set up is Feb. 2007.
> 
> I am open to someone stepping in immediately but no later than necessary to
> arrange our Feb. 2007 meeting.

Dennis asked me privately to take his place but I cannot.

Thank you Dennis, for all you have done.  Working with you has been a great pleasure and it's a part of why I have volunteered the little bit that I have.

Marilyn

> 
> Dennis
> ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
> ---------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies





From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  2 03:02:49 2006
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:02:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
In-Reply-To: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>

>>Oh dear.  Because only 1 of the purported speakers has given me a blurb
for his talk, and because nagging is too boring for me to do, >>and because
December is a hard month to arrange or attend anything, I think it's a good
idea to skip it.  In fact, it would help me a lot >>to skip it because there
is party that night that I would like to attend.

>>Does anyone object?


It's probably the best thing to do a this point, if we can't get more
speakers.

I had posted that we skip December's meeting a while back, but Dennis shot
it down.

In fact, it may even be a good policy to not have future meetings in
December, just to avoid compounding already busy schedules.

My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
presentation isn't worth it.


>>Oh dear.  Because only 1 of the purported speakers has given me a blurb
> for his talk, and because nagging is too boring for me to do, >>and because
> December is a hard month to arrange or attend anything, I think it's a good
> idea to skip it.  In fact, it would help me a lot >>to skip it because there
> is party that night that I would like to attend.
>
> >>Does anyone object?
>
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Dec  2 03:17:01 2006
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:17:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061202021701.GA4516@panix.com>

On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
> My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
> presentation isn't worth it.

Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to Vegas
Saturday. ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club  

From jim at well.com  Sat Dec  2 03:27:22 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:27:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <20061202004606.GA29221@panix.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201152036.023a02d0@localhost>
	<BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>
	<20061202004606.GA29221@panix.com>
Message-ID: <2d45d5b3fdd8310ec25eb5d151b42d5e@well.com>


    i'm with aahz tho a bit more so.
    beware of ambitions: they tend to stir groups
up with lots of tedious meetings and email (like
what this thread may become) and end up with
nothing more done than the talking, or worse:
some elaborate starts then bitter disappointment
when things fall apart.
    if we can just have meetings and an email
list, that's a lot (further ambitions threaten what
we've got). let's keep it (by keeping it simple).
    no officers, no roles, just simple email list
management and getting speakers for meetings.
    there, i've said it three times.


On Dec 1, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Aahz wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Stephen McInerney wrote:
>>
>> Running BayPIGgies is a large task. We seriously need a board of 
>> officers.
>
> <shrug>  I won't stand in your way, but I'll note that the job is IMO
> precisely as big as you want it to be.  Things were not broken before,
> and they won't be broken as long as the mailing list is here and 
> someone
> takes charge of making a meeting place available.  The meetings will 
> take
> care of themselves somehow if those two conditions are met.
>
> I will agree that things work better if there is organization, I just
> caution against gloom-and-doom if there is much less organization than
> has been done recently.
>
> Side note: I suggest that the February meeting be used for people who
> want to practice a PyCon presentation.
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From DennisR at dair.com  Sat Dec  2 03:52:02 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 18:52:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201181045.023a6730@localhost>

Tony Cappellini wrote:
---------------------
>I had posted that we skip December's meeting a while back, but Dennis shot 
>it down.

News to me.  I don't remember shooting down skipping the meeting but it 
could be true.  My memory is that I have been generally dubious about 
having a December meeting (e.g. 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2006-November/001301.html)

>My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short 
>presentation isn't worth it.

IMO, your presentation would gain a larger audience if it were presented 
some month other than December.

Perhaps this is something which could kick start a Feb. meeting for whoever 
succeeds me as meeting organizer.  JJ has also volunteered to make a short 
presentation.  Combined, that is a 30 minute kick start to start a 
potential Feb. program.

Aahz wrote:
------------

>The meetings will take care of themselves somehow if those two conditions 
>are met [mailing list and meeting room].

My mileage *does* vary <grin>.  For my part, I prefer planned meetings over 
unplanned meetings.

>Side note: I suggest that the February meeting be used for people who
>want to practice a PyCon presentation.

Another good kick start for Feb. Meeting organizer.

Stephen McInerney wrote:
-------------------------

>I suggest now is the time to:
>- define a small board of officers,
>- define their responsibilities
>(e.g. organizer, webmaster(s), meeting scheduler, email moderator)
>and
>- hold an election as part of the Feb meeting.
>Otherwise things will continue to be as before, without a charter and
>a formal structure.

I support this *idea*.  Where I am having questions is in the 
implementation.  Feb. may be too late if we want to have a Feb. program 
pulled together.  Feb may be too early if there is to be any kind of 
charter/structure in place.  Basically, I just don't have a clear view of 
the timing.

Early in 2006, we discussed having an organizing meeting.  Perhaps it is 
time to resurrect this idea.  ... however, there is near unanimity that 
December is a terrible time to have a meeting.

That said, I am willing to work at setting up a charter/structure ... but 
this group/list needs to figure out who is organizing future meetings 
starting with Feb. 2007.

>We seriously need a board of officers.

I support this.

Marilyn Davis wrote:

>Thank you Dennis, for all you have done.  Working with you has been a 
>great pleasure and it's a part of why I have volunteered the little bit 
>that I have.

Thank you for the kind words.

Regards, Dennis


  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From aleax at google.com  Sat Dec  2 05:07:03 2006
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:07:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <20061202021701.GA4516@panix.com>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061202021701.GA4516@panix.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0612012007u2e9743d5pb73c1b078511b015@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
> >
> > My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
> > presentation isn't worth it.
>
> Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
> even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to Vegas
> Saturday. ;-)

I'd most likely be at such a meeting.


Alex

From jim at well.com  Sat Dec  2 18:52:51 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 09:52:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0612012007u2e9743d5pb73c1b078511b015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061202021701.GA4516@panix.com>
	<55dc209b0612012007u2e9743d5pb73c1b078511b015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7667cd6285ba54932bfd4f8dd983ebf@well.com>


    what about using some of the december meeting time
for open discussion on group issues: the idea being that
maybe the email list participants' opinions are different
from those of people who show up at meetings.


On Dec 1, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> On 12/1/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>>
>>> My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
>>> presentation isn't worth it.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
>> even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to Vegas
>> Saturday. ;-)
>
> I'd most likely be at such a meeting.
>
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From ken at seehart.com  Sun Dec  3 00:27:14 2006
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 15:27:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45720BD2.5090708@seehart.com>

I'm fine with skipping it.  I have some preference for doing the Komodo 
presentation when we have enough IDE speakers to make a real IDE/tools 
night, particularly if there is more attendance than we would be expect 
in December.  Anyway, I could definitely use some extra free time this 
month.  If we do meet this month, I'm ready though.

- Ken

Tony Cappellini wrote:
> >>Oh dear.  Because only 1 of the purported speakers has given me a 
> blurb for his talk, and because nagging is too boring for me to do, 
> >>and because December is a hard month to arrange or attend anything, 
> I think it's a good idea to skip it.  In fact, it would help me a lot 
> >>to skip it because there is party that night that I would like to 
> attend.
>
> >>Does anyone object?
>
>
> It's probably the best thing to do a this point, if we can't get more 
> speakers.
>
> I had posted that we skip December's meeting a while back, but Dennis 
> shot it down.
>
> In fact, it may even be a good policy to not have future meetings in 
> December, just to avoid compounding already busy schedules.
>
> My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short 
> presentation isn't worth it.
>
>
>     >>Oh dear.  Because only 1 of the purported speakers has given me
>     a blurb for his talk, and because nagging is too boring for me to
>     do, >>and because December is a hard month to arrange or attend
>     anything, I think it's a good idea to skip it.  In fact, it would
>     help me a lot >>to skip it because there is party that night that
>     I would like to attend.
>
>     >>Does anyone object?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>   

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From marilyn at deliberate.com  Sun Dec  3 03:34:38 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 18:34:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
Message-ID: <20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>

----- On Saturday, December 2, 2006 jim at well.com wrote:

> what about using some of the december meeting time
> for open discussion on group issues: the idea being that
> maybe the email list participants' opinions are different
> from those of people who show up at meetings.
> 

I think it makes sense to wait until we expect that the people who usually come will actually come.  December is likely to be sparse, if we do it then.

Jim, in your previous message you said:
 
> i was thinking of that, in a support capacity,
> of course. if you've got leads, i'm willing to
> spend the time sending email and making
> telephone calls. i have a little experience
> in this (not much, but some).

Jim is the person who got me to give my "Why Python?" talk in SF twice.  I can vouch for him, that he has lots of follow-through and good energy.  I think the group should grab him up for anything he is willing to do.

Jim, might you be willing to come to the meetings and run them?  Dennis has been doing that for us.  I know you live far away.

> 
> On Dec 1, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> On 12/1/06, Aahz  wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
>>>> presentation isn't worth it.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
>>> even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to Vegas
>>> Saturday. ;-)
>>
>> I'd most likely be at such a meeting.

So far it's only Alex?  The IDE people are shaping up a bit and we can probably pull off enough entertainment. But what a shame to do all that for just Alex.  :^)

I still vote to give up on December. 

The IDE people can do their thing in February, if nothing more interesting pops up.

So, how do we decide? 

Marilyn

>>
>>
>> Alex
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies





From jim at well.com  Sun Dec  3 05:48:18 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:48:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
References: <20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <46569454aeed29a4f51e0cfd337d4e54@well.com>


    i'm willing to chip in some time helping out.
    i feel like i can work with speakers, call them,
remind them, etc. i believe i can run a meeting--
i won't faint of stage fright or run off at the mouth.
i can't do every speaker or every meeting. i like
working with others to get something to happen.
    how do you guys coordinate?


On Dec 2, 2006, at 6:34 PM, Marilyn Davis wrote:

> ----- On Saturday, December 2, 2006 jim at well.com wrote:
>
>> what about using some of the december meeting time
>> for open discussion on group issues: the idea being that
>> maybe the email list participants' opinions are different
>> from those of people who show up at meetings.
>>
>
> I think it makes sense to wait until we expect that the people who 
> usually come will actually come.  December is likely to be sparse, if 
> we do it then.
>
> Jim, in your previous message you said:
>
>> i was thinking of that, in a support capacity,
>> of course. if you've got leads, i'm willing to
>> spend the time sending email and making
>> telephone calls. i have a little experience
>> in this (not much, but some).
>
> Jim is the person who got me to give my "Why Python?" talk in SF 
> twice.  I can vouch for him, that he has lots of follow-through and 
> good energy.  I think the group should grab him up for anything he is 
> willing to do.
>
> Jim, might you be willing to come to the meetings and run them?  
> Dennis has been doing that for us.  I know you live far away.
>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/1/06, Aahz  wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
>>>>> presentation isn't worth it.
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
>>>> even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to 
>>>> Vegas
>>>> Saturday. ;-)
>>>
>>> I'd most likely be at such a meeting.
>
> So far it's only Alex?  The IDE people are shaping up a bit and we can 
> probably pull off enough entertainment. But what a shame to do all 
> that for just Alex.  :^)
>
> I still vote to give up on December.
>
> The IDE people can do their thing in February, if nothing more 
> interesting pops up.
>
> So, how do we decide?
>
> Marilyn
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From ken at seehart.com  Sun Dec  3 08:06:07 2006
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:06:07 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
Message-ID: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>


Let's see who responds on-list in the next 48 hours.  If there aren't 
too many objections: cancel.  How does that sound?

Meantime, better put a message on the website warning everyone that it 
/might /get canceled, and to check back later.

- Ken

Marilyn Davis wrote:
> So far it's only Alex?  The IDE people are shaping up a bit and we can probably pull off enough entertainment. But what a shame to do all that for just Alex.  :^)
>
> I still vote to give up on December. 
>
> The IDE people can do their thing in February, if nothing more interesting pops up.
>
> So, how do we decide? 
>
> Marilyn
>   

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From mac at Wireless.Com  Sun Dec  3 09:11:32 2006
From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>

Geez,

I think it would be better if we had the meeting.  It's always better to be regular, I think.

Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's worth it(!).

I think I've mentioned to some of you before about how the local NetBSD group works.  We meet in the same place (Vito's Pizza in Sunnyvale) at the same time every month (2nd Tuesday, 7:30-9:30) and there is _NEVER_ an agenda.  Whoever shows up drives the agenda, in which we ask each other questions, opinions about various pieces of software, how to use some particular unusual feature, etc, etc.  It's always entertaining and educational.

So, although I think it's great to have presentations at the Python meetings, that's icing on the cake; the _real_ reason, I suspect for most people, is to meet and get to know the other people - after all, we have something in common - we think Python people are the Cat's Pajamas! [1]

-Mike


[1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cats+pajamas



On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Ken Seehart wrote:

> Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:06:07 -0800
> From: Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com>
> To: Baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
> 
>
> Let's see who responds on-list in the next 48 hours.  If there aren't too 
> many objections: cancel.  How does that sound?
>
> Meantime, better put a message on the website warning everyone that it /might 
> /get canceled, and to check back later.
>
> - Ken
>
> Marilyn Davis wrote:
>> So far it's only Alex?  The IDE people are shaping up a bit and we can 
>> probably pull off enough entertainment. But what a shame to do all that for 
>> just Alex.  :^)
>> 
>> I still vote to give up on December. 
>> The IDE people can do their thing in February, if nothing more interesting 
>> pops up.
>> 
>> So, how do we decide? 
>> Marilyn
>> 
>
>


From wescpy at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 11:00:59 2006
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 02:00:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>

i've been a member of BayPIGgies since the early days, and even when
there's no real agenda, there has always been a fruitful discussion...
even on days when we only had 7 ppl show up.  i'd say to keep the
meeting intact for those that just want to show up to socialize.  if
we're *desperate* to talk about topics, there are any number of things
to discuss, such as:

- Python 3000
- PyCon -- logistics, travel, agenda
- the recently accepted talks for PyCon in Feb
- the list of tutorials that will be taught at PyCon
- an update from Neal, Alex, Brett, or anyone else on the PSF or python-dev
- Alex and I could share our trials and tribulations of writing Python books
- a quick update from those who are reviewing books for Tony
- when to hold the next newbies night
- future leadership of the user group
- why "obj1 is obj2" may not correspond to "id(obj1) == id(obj2)"
- etc.

cheers,
-wesley

From brad.g.hall at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 11:24:38 2006
From: brad.g.hall at gmail.com (Brad Hall)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 02:24:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ff314b6c0612030224y5a72a851n47b944d09d611d0@mail.gmail.com>

Having just found out about baypiggies today and joined the mailing
list a couple hours ago I'm glad to learn that there is a such a group
in the bay area.  Count me in for the december meeting if it happens
:)

-Brad

On 12/3/06, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> i've been a member of BayPIGgies since the early days, and even when
> there's no real agenda, there has always been a fruitful discussion...
> even on days when we only had 7 ppl show up.  i'd say to keep the
> meeting intact for those that just want to show up to socialize.  if
> we're *desperate* to talk about topics, there are any number of things
> to discuss, such as:
>
> - Python 3000
> - PyCon -- logistics, travel, agenda
> - the recently accepted talks for PyCon in Feb
> - the list of tutorials that will be taught at PyCon
> - an update from Neal, Alex, Brett, or anyone else on the PSF or python-dev
> - Alex and I could share our trials and tribulations of writing Python books
> - a quick update from those who are reviewing books for Tony
> - when to hold the next newbies night
> - future leadership of the user group
> - why "obj1 is obj2" may not correspond to "id(obj1) == id(obj2)"
> - etc.
>
> cheers,
> -wesley
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From harrington_chad at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  3 17:03:18 2006
From: harrington_chad at hotmail.com (Chad Harrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:03:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Subject: Re:  [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3085.1165141479.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F19A5FED260037BF31C3B9A82D80@phx.gbl>


----Original Message Follows----
From: Mike Cheponis <mac at Wireless.Com>
To: Baypiggies at python.org
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Geez,

>I think it would be better if we had the meeting.  It's always better to be 
>regular, I think.

>Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's worth it(!).

I will attend the December meeting, even if it is a meet and greet or other 
less structured activity.  I agree that regularity is important.  If others 
don't want to come or can't come, that's fine, we should hold the meeting 
anyway.

Chad Harrington



From kenobi at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 18:15:51 2006
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:15:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930612030915x554f1146m1bb94398f978540b@mail.gmail.com>

If folks want to have a light-weight meeting along the lines that
Wesley suggests, I have no problem with it.  I volunteer with another
non-profit technical group, which organizes dinner plus technical
talk.  We have given up on December meetings because we can't compete
with company holiday parties and shopping sprees.  But the
infrastructure and financial costs of our meetings are a lot more
complex than BayPIGgies.

Presumably, anyone who signs up is on this mailing list.  So, we have
no major problem managing expectations.  Just the same, it probably
would be good for someone to post a note on the sign-up page to check
the mailing list for impending agenda change.

--Rick Kwan

On 12/3/06, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> i've been a member of BayPIGgies since the early days, and even when
> there's no real agenda, there has always been a fruitful discussion...
> even on days when we only had 7 ppl show up.  i'd say to keep the
> meeting intact for those that just want to show up to socialize.  if
> we're *desperate* to talk about topics, there are any number of things
> to discuss, such as:
>
> - Python 3000
> - PyCon -- logistics, travel, agenda
> - the recently accepted talks for PyCon in Feb
> - the list of tutorials that will be taught at PyCon
> - an update from Neal, Alex, Brett, or anyone else on the PSF or python-dev
> - Alex and I could share our trials and tribulations of writing Python books
> - a quick update from those who are reviewing books for Tony
> - when to hold the next newbies night
> - future leadership of the user group
> - why "obj1 is obj2" may not correspond to "id(obj1) == id(obj2)"
> - etc.
>
> cheers,
> -wesley
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From DennisR at dair.com  Sun Dec  3 19:29:10 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:29:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <f0aa69930612030915x554f1146m1bb94398f978540b@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<78b3a9580612030200x6bc977efhb9d86cdb4c4698d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061203102605.0239c010@localhost>

At 09:15 AM 12/3/2006, Rick Kwan wrote:
>... it probably
>would be good for someone to post a note on the sign-up page to check
>the mailing list for impending agenda change.

... even better, the signup page itself is a wiki.  I have been editing the 
"program" section of the signup page so that latest status is on the signup 
page itself.  No need for a pointer.

Of course, last minute changes go out on the mailing list so both the 
signup page and the mailing list are up to date.

Dennis

  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From max at theslimmers.net  Sun Dec  3 21:15:19 2006
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:15:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <200612032015.kB3KFPLG027275@a.mail.sonic.net>

i am one of those who volunteered to give a talk on ide's, in my case
Wingware and optionally Boa.  I have been lax in producing t bio but am
still happy to do same and do my presentation.
 
I missed last months meeting can someone point me to where the video might
be, Since I have an interest in Air Traffic Control (am a pilot), I was keen
to attend however unable.
 
max 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org 
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Mike Cheponis
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:12 AM
> To: Baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
> 
> Geez,
> 
> I think it would be better if we had the meeting.  It's 
> always better to be regular, I think.
> 
> Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's 
> worth it(!).
> 
> I think I've mentioned to some of you before about how the 
> local NetBSD group works.  We meet in the same place (Vito's 
> Pizza in Sunnyvale) at the same time every month (2nd 
> Tuesday, 7:30-9:30) and there is _NEVER_ an agenda.  Whoever 
> shows up drives the agenda, in which we ask each other 
> questions, opinions about various pieces of software, how to 
> use some particular unusual feature, etc, etc.  It's always 
> entertaining and educational.
> 
> So, although I think it's great to have presentations at the 
> Python meetings, that's icing on the cake; the _real_ reason, 
> I suspect for most people, is to meet and get to know the 
> other people - after all, we have something in common - we 
> think Python people are the Cat's Pajamas! [1]
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> [1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cats+pajamas
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Ken Seehart wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:06:07 -0800
> > From: Ken Seehart <ken at seehart.com>
> > To: Baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re:  Cancel December meeting?]
> > 
> >
> > Let's see who responds on-list in the next 48 hours.  If 
> there aren't 
> > too many objections: cancel.  How does that sound?
> >
> > Meantime, better put a message on the website warning 
> everyone that it 
> > /might /get canceled, and to check back later.
> >
> > - Ken
> >
> > Marilyn Davis wrote:
> >> So far it's only Alex?  The IDE people are shaping up a bit and we 
> >> can probably pull off enough entertainment. But what a shame to do 
> >> all that for just Alex.  :^)
> >> 
> >> I still vote to give up on December. 
> >> The IDE people can do their thing in February, if nothing more 
> >> interesting pops up.
> >> 
> >> So, how do we decide? 
> >> Marilyn
> >> 
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From DennisR at dair.com  Sun Dec  3 21:46:56 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:46:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <46569454aeed29a4f51e0cfd337d4e54@well.com>
References: <20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
	<20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061203124532.023a1848@localhost>

At 08:48 PM 12/2/2006, jim stockford wrote:

>     how do you guys coordinate?

I have sent a rambling, off-list email (reply here is mostly an FYI for 
entire list).

Thanks for volunteering!
  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From mac at Wireless.Com  Sun Dec  3 22:12:24 2006
From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:12:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wiki URL (was Re:  Cancel December meeting)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061203124532.023a1848@localhost>
References: <20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
	<20061203023441.5650D1E4010@bag.python.org>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061203124532.023a1848@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612031308160.1049@S.culver.net>

The wiki URL to sign up for attending the 14 Dec 2006 meeting  (and all future meetings) is:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings

Just "EDIT" the December 14,2006 list and add you name if you're coming.

-Mike


From annaraven at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 03:09:34 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:09:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612031809j57f8f594s6a5f9f6526bcf9c3@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/3/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> Geez,
>
> I think it would be better if we had the meeting.  It's always better to be regular, I think.

It's good to be regular.

I can even attend finally. My finals will be over. YAY!


> Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's worth it(!).

I agree. Learning things from Alex is always worth it.

See you all at BayPIGgies.


-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From DennisR at dair.com  Mon Dec  4 20:51:19 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:51:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] December meeting ... draft agenda
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612031809j57f8f594s6a5f9f6526bcf9c3@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061204114224.023b5bf0@localhost>

At 06:09 PM 12/3/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
>Learning things from Alex is always worth it.
>See you all at BayPIGgies.

We don't have a scheduled program.  To me "no program" = "no meeting" and 
that is likely to be my personal choice anyway.

But starting with Alex's post, it is clear that there are enough people who 
don't make that binding that there should be a meeting.

There may yet be a program.  Stay tuned (or comment).  If there is no 
program, I propose the following as a meeting abstract:

        D-R-A-F-T
         Thursday Dec. 11, 2006
         7:30-9:00 p.m. Meet and Greet
        ------------------------------------
         This is an informal meeting with no scheduled presentations.
         Meeting attendees self-organize into smaller discussion groups
         or discussions among all attendees.

Have I captured what those attending expect to happen?

 >I can even attend finally. My finals will be over. YAY!
Excellent.

regards Dennis

  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From annaraven at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 21:03:19 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:03:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] December meeting ... draft agenda
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061204114224.023b5bf0@localhost>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061204114224.023b5bf0@localhost>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612041203l70320a21lf927d2a6d8f509cc@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/4/06, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> At 06:09 PM 12/3/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> >Learning things from Alex is always worth it.
> >See you all at BayPIGgies.
>
> We don't have a scheduled program.  To me "no program" = "no meeting" and
> that is likely to be my personal choice anyway.

I'm actually looking forward to a chance to *talk* with people! I
don't get enough of that with the "normal" programs. I go to these,
not to listen to  a presenter, but to chat and socialize and meet
other pythonistas. I realize most people go for the presentations, but
I do like that we'll get a chance to have a meet and greet this time.

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From DennisR at dair.com  Mon Dec  4 21:22:54 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:22:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] December meeting ... draft agenda
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0612041212s58c0cedi70e4dc572c19b190@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061204114224.023b5bf0@localhost>
	<4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061204114224.023b5bf0@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061204121915.023af6a8@localhost>

At 12:12 PM 12/4/2006, tpc247 at gmail.com wrote:


>just to be clear, is the meeting this Thursday or next Thursday ?  If the 
>former, the date is actually December 7, and if the latter, December 14.


Thur. Dec. 14.

Sorry, my PDA SW has a 2 month calendar and I have reflexively been looking 
at the month on the right for December.  Now that December has snuck up on 
us (only xx shopping days ...), December is now on the left.  I was looking 
at Jan. by mistake.

Sorry: meeting is Thur. Dec. 14.

Regards, Dennis


  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From tpc at csua.berkeley.edu  Mon Dec  4 21:34:32 2006
From: tpc at csua.berkeley.edu (tpc at csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:34:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0612041234i5dc68265u4f944b6914ad339f@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/3/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
>
> Geez,
>
> I think it would be better if we had the meeting.  It's always better to
> be regular, I think.
>
> Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's worth it(!).
>
> I think I've mentioned to some of you before about how the local NetBSD
> group works.  We meet in the same place (Vito's Pizza in Sunnyvale) at the
> same time every month (2nd Tuesday, 7:30-9:30) and there is _NEVER_ an
> agenda.  Whoever shows up drives the agenda, in which we ask each other
> questions, opinions about various pieces of software, how to use some
> particular unusual feature, etc, etc.  It's always entertaining and
> educational.
>
> So, although I think it's great to have presentations at the Python
> meetings, that's icing on the cake; the _real_ reason, I suspect for most
> people, is to meet and get to know the other people - after all, we have
> something in common - we think Python people are the Cat's Pajamas! [1]
>
> -Mike
>
>
> [1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cats+pajamas


I agree with everything Mike said, except he understated what we think of
Python people, who are really more the bee's knees.


> On 12/3/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Even if it's only me learning something new from Alex, it's worth
> > it(!).
> >
> > I agree. Learning things from Alex is always worth it.
> >
> > See you all at BayPIGgies.
>
>
I disagree.  Last time I sat at the foot of Alex, I learned more about
Dungeons and Dragons than I ever wanted to know.
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From marilyn at deliberate.com  Mon Dec  4 21:56:34 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:56:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] December Meeting
Message-ID: <20061204205637.D25861E4008@bag.python.org>

Hi Python People,

Clearly the meeting is on!  A friendly gathering is a good thing, as long as it is what everyone is expecting.

I've still been unable to gather up enough enthusiasm, measured in blurbs for the web site, from IDE demo volunteers for a presentation.

So, let's not count on a program, unless someone else has a program to offer.

I'm sorry to disappoint anyone who is disappointed.

Marilyn Davis



From annaraven at gmail.com  Tue Dec  5 00:03:21 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:03:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [Fwd: Re: Cancel December meeting?]
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0612041234i5dc68265u4f944b6914ad339f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4572775F.2060406@seehart.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612030001480.1049@S.culver.net>
	<bae1efdf0612041234i5dc68265u4f944b6914ad339f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612041503n404fb220if4bfd9cccc552814@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/4/06, tpc at csua.berkeley.edu <tpc at csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree. Learning things from Alex is always worth it.
> > >
> > > See you all at BayPIGgies.
> >
>
> I disagree.  Last time I sat at the foot of Alex, I learned more about
> Dungeons and Dragons than I ever wanted to know.

LOL. I guess I'm better at redirecting his enthusiasm to things I want
to hear about. (Or that I tend to enjoy hearing about D&D and history
and linguistics and all the other things he talks about...)  ;-)


-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From sasha at snimmer.com  Wed Dec  6 01:05:21 2006
From: sasha at snimmer.com (Sasha / SNIMMER)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Job posting: junior level python coder for SNIMMER
Message-ID: <01fe01c718ca$39456ca0$6802a8c0@FrontSide>

Hello,

I am looking for a junior level python programmer with 2-3 years of experience for SNIMMER. If you are in San Francisco, Bay Area please reply to me via private mail or private IM here:
http://www.snimmer.com/posts/SNIMMER_Blog/about_me

Thanks,

Sasha.
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From reggie at merfinllc.com  Wed Dec  6 19:11:48 2006
From: reggie at merfinllc.com (Reggie Dugard)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:11:48 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python job in Walnut Creek
Message-ID: <1165428708.32049.58.camel@fox>

We're a small financial firm in Walnut Creek that specializes in
mathematical/algorithmic trading in world financial markets and we're
looking to hire a new member for our technical staff to work with
financial systems and data engineering.  Almost all of our programming
is in Python with only a small amount of wrapper code written in
C/C++/Java.  Below is the official posting.

Reggie Dugard
Merfin, LLC

--

Company: Merfin, LLC (Sponsor member of PSF)
Position: Member, Technical Staff 
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Our ideal candidate has a B.S./M.S. or Ph.D. in mathematics, computer
science, electrical engineering, or in the physical sciences, together
with very strong coding and "abstract design" skills, and a solid
analytical background. 

We require no financial background. 

Help create and maintain mission-critical software systems and financial
databases at the heart of all of the firm's international trading
operations. 

Our systems are implemented in Python, C, and Java, and are largely
Linux-based.

Compensation is attractive and includes an incentive bonus based on fund
performance. 
  
Please send your resume to resumes at merfinllc.com 



From jim at well.com  Thu Dec  7 16:19:14 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:19:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] is the bayPIGgies web stie updated?
Message-ID: <ee4d7b1b6ebcbb69d2cd8d52b7a2e43d@well.com>


the current web site seems less than sufficiently
specific about the coming December meeting.


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 16:55:37 2006
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 07:55:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] is the bayPIGgies web stie updated?
In-Reply-To: <ee4d7b1b6ebcbb69d2cd8d52b7a2e43d@well.com>
References: <ee4d7b1b6ebcbb69d2cd8d52b7a2e43d@well.com>
Message-ID: <45783979.1080704@gmail.com>

The website is updated now and I put a link to the wiki on the homepage.

Donna M. Snow, Owner
C Squared Enterprises
illuminate your web
http://www.csquaredtech.com


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 17:20:03 2006
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:20:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
Message-ID: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>

I'm probably going to attend the meet & greet... like Anna said I'm more 
interested in getting to know other's who work with Python. My business 
is growing and I'm reaching a point where I'm going to need to reach out 
and ask for some help here and there and it's nice to know who is out 
there and what they can do..

That said.. since it is meet & greet should we plan on bringing 
refreshments? If it's ok with google (leslie?) I have a 40 cup 
coffeemaker I can bring, steve (hindle) drinks a lot of coffee :-P.

I can bring that..coffee and coffee accessories (sugar, creamer, etc) .. 
does someone else want to bring cupcakes or cookies (Stella Doro cookies 
seem like a good choice)?? (if coffee is kinda rough for some in the 
evening.. we can maybe grab a couple bottles of soda or juice?)

Also, I don't drive so if someone lives near Westgate (Saratoga and 
Campbell) and would like to share a ride to Google that evening.. I'll 
buy you dinner!
(Steve's attendance is kinda up in the air at the moment.. so let's say 
we need a ride for both.. and then if he can't make it I'll let you know).

Best Regards,
Donna M. Snow

From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 18:41:53 2006
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:41:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>

> That said.. since it is meet & greet should we plan on bringing
> refreshments? If it's ok with google (leslie?) I have a 40 cup
> coffeemaker I can bring, steve (hindle) drinks a lot of coffee :-P.


un4tunately, i think leslie is out-of-the-country and the moment...
can any googlers comment on donna's request?

-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From guido at python.org  Thu Dec  7 18:55:14 2006
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:55:14 -0600
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>

I'd expect that Google would much rather spring for coffee than let
people bring in outside cooking equipment, no matter how safe -- the
food and drink is free for visiting non-Googlers, too. :-)

Not that I'm making this decision. Presumably Leslie will be back or
read her email before next Thursday.

--Guido

On 12/7/06, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That said.. since it is meet & greet should we plan on bringing
> > refreshments? If it's ok with google (leslie?) I have a 40 cup
> > coffeemaker I can bring, steve (hindle) drinks a lot of coffee :-P.
>
>
> un4tunately, i think leslie is out-of-the-country and the moment...
> can any googlers comment on donna's request?
>
> -- wesley
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
>     http://corepython.com
>
> wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
> python training and technical consulting
> cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
> http://cyberwebconsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 19:44:03 2006
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna M. Snow)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:44:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>	
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <457860F3.6060407@gmail.com>

OK I have a ride to the meet & greet (thank you)..and I'll hold off on 
plans for the coffeemaker until Leslie gets back...

Donna


From russell.whitaker at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 19:56:43 2006
From: russell.whitaker at gmail.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:56:43 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] is the bayPIGgies web stie updated?
In-Reply-To: <ee4d7b1b6ebcbb69d2cd8d52b7a2e43d@well.com>
References: <ee4d7b1b6ebcbb69d2cd8d52b7a2e43d@well.com>
Message-ID: <8d0785d00612071056w5fa11549o6abd003bd97917be@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/7/06, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> the current web site seems less than sufficiently
> specific about the coming December meeting.
>

In your subject line, did you mean to spell "web stie" as
"web sty", as in "pig[gies] sty"...?

-- 
Russell Whitaker

From tpc at csua.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec  7 20:35:51 2006
From: tpc at csua.berkeley.edu (tpc at csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:35:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <457860F3.6060407@gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
	<457860F3.6060407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0612071135g32eb65ffye5cc283a6fe862a7@mail.gmail.com>

hey guys, so I was really looking forward to trying some of Google's coffee
(I hear the beans are mountain grown) and wonder if anyone would like to
carpool from the East Bay for next Thursday's meeting at Google.  I can
drive or catch a ride with someone if convenient.
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 02:03:44 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:03:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Cancel December meeting?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0612012007u2e9743d5pb73c1b078511b015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
	<8249c4ac0612011802u61ae5527kf988b1067aa920ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20061202021701.GA4516@panix.com>
	<55dc209b0612012007u2e9743d5pb73c1b078511b015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612071703p66af95dbi3f007e5a7a32af57@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/06, Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com> wrote:
> On 12/1/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Tony Cappellini wrote:
> > >
> > > My presentation is ready, but holding a meeting with only one short
> > > presentation isn't worth it.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, how many people would show up for a meet-and-greet
> > even without any presentation?  (I won't be there, I'm flying to Vegas
> > Saturday. ;-)
>
> I'd most likely be at such a meeting.

Sorry I'm so late, but I'm planning on being there.

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 03:35:45 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:35:45 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Job postings ... and meeting organizer
In-Reply-To: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20061202012000.B2E501E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612071835i44e93383pe30699695c25e23b@mail.gmail.com>

> And I wish that the role of power-that-is, i.e. the list adminstrator, was a role that had some mechanism for change.  I remember that JJ volunteered to take the role and that no mechanism appeared for transferring it.

It's definitely true that I'd like to see this mailing list be a more
positive place.

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 03:43:34 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:43:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061201152036.023a02d0@localhost>
	<BAY131-F39B4245E4A98109B920B8BA0D90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612071843m16320781pecba5d38b06a4306@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/06, Stephen McInerney <spmcinerney at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I suggest now is the time to:
> - define a small board of officers,
> - define their responsibilities
> (e.g. organizer, webmaster(s), meeting scheduler, email moderator)
> and
> - hold an election as part of the Feb meeting.
> Otherwise things will continue to be as before, without a charter and
> a formal structure.
>
> Running BayPIGgies is a large task. We seriously need a board of officers.
> Thanks Dennis for your strong contribution.
>
> I avoided commenting on the recruiter mail - but I think it proves the need
> for a separate 'baypiggies-jobs at python.org' list for those of us (incl. me)
> who do not work full-time in Python, and welcome Pythonic job posts.
> This would solve that issue for all of us.

I personally would prefer a benevolent dictator with a few
contributors, sort of how Linus Torvalds works.  I think it's fine if
the BDFL (benevolent dictator for the list) commits to, say, a year.
That's how it's been working informally anyway.

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Fri Dec  8 05:42:05 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:42:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
Message-ID: <20061208044208.49C531E400E@bag.python.org>


----- On Thursday, December 7, 2006 jjinux at gmail.com wrote:

> On 12/1/06, Stephen McInerney  wrote:
>> I suggest now is the time to:
>> - define a small board of officers,
>> - define their responsibilities
>> (e.g. organizer, webmaster(s), meeting scheduler, email moderator)
>> and
>> - hold an election as part of the Feb meeting.
>> Otherwise things will continue to be as before, without a charter and
>> a formal structure.
>>
>> Running BayPIGgies is a large task. We seriously need a board of officers.
>> Thanks Dennis for your strong contribution.
>>
>> I avoided commenting on the recruiter mail - but I think it proves the need
>> for a separate 'baypiggies-jobs at python.org' list for those of us (incl. me)
>> who do not work full-time in Python, and welcome Pythonic job posts.
>> This would solve that issue for all of us.
> 
> I personally would prefer a benevolent dictator with a few
> contributors, sort of how Linus Torvalds works.  I think it's fine if
> the BDFL (benevolent dictator for the list) commits to, say, a year.
> That's how it's been working informally anyway.

A year?  Then I think we are due for a new administrator.

JJ, are you still willing to be our list administrator?

Aahz, will you please give up your job as administrator of the list?

Marilyn Davis


> 
> -jj
> 
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Dec  8 17:12:24 2006
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:12:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <20061208044208.49C531E400E@bag.python.org>
References: <20061208044208.49C531E400E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20061208161224.GA15278@panix.com>

On Thu, Dec 07, 2006, Marilyn Davis wrote:
>
> Aahz, will you please give up your job as administrator of the list?

No, thank you.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club  

From lhawthorn at google.com  Fri Dec  8 18:34:10 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:34:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>

If you folks can take time out of your busy December schedules, we can
certainly provide coffee, other beverages and some nibbles.  If anyone is
vegetarian or vegan please let me know.

If we could have a firm headcount by 5:00 PM on Tuesday, 12/5, it would be
much appreciated.

Cheers,
LH

On 12/7/06, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
> I'd expect that Google would much rather spring for coffee than let
> people bring in outside cooking equipment, no matter how safe -- the
> food and drink is free for visiting non-Googlers, too. :-)
>
> Not that I'm making this decision. Presumably Leslie will be back or
> read her email before next Thursday.
>
> --Guido
>
> On 12/7/06, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > That said.. since it is meet & greet should we plan on bringing
> > > refreshments? If it's ok with google (leslie?) I have a 40 cup
> > > coffeemaker I can bring, steve (hindle) drinks a lot of coffee :-P.
> >
> >
> > un4tunately, i think leslie is out-of-the-country and the moment...
> > can any googlers comment on donna's request?
> >
> > -- wesley
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
> >     http://corepython.com
> >
> > wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
> > python training and technical consulting
> > cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
> > http://cyberwebconsulting.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From cvanarsdall at mvista.com  Fri Dec  8 18:40:16 2006
From: cvanarsdall at mvista.com (Carl J. Van Arsdall)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 09:40:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4579A380.5000108@mvista.com>

Leslie Hawthorn wrote:
> If you folks can take time out of your busy December schedules, we can 
> certainly provide coffee, other beverages and some nibbles.  If anyone 
> is vegetarian or vegan please let me know.
>
> If we could have a firm headcount by 5:00 PM on Tuesday, 12/5, it 
> would be much appreciated. 
Are we signing up on a wiki as for other google meetings?  (sorry, i'm 
still new to this!)

-carl




-- 

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall at mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software


From lhawthorn at google.com  Fri Dec  8 18:44:34 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:44:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <4579A380.5000108@mvista.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4579A380.5000108@mvista.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612080944l6a57cf8fyffd9088855af511d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Carl,

On 12/8/06, Carl J. Van Arsdall <cvanarsdall at mvista.com> wrote:

> Are we signing up on a wiki as for other google meetings?  (sorry, i'm
> still new to this!)


Yes, please sign up here:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings

Cheers,
LH

-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From lhawthorn at google.com  Fri Dec  8 18:47:13 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:47:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] meet & greet
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45783F33.3010000@gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580612070941q557fb6fke8b791c814499c2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20612070955k648340d9h1b28107a725bab55@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612080934m618201d2je6faeb51baeda20b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612080947r2feeaab1ma669a90700d9dfb3@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, please register by 5:00 PM Tuesday, 12/12.

Cheers,
LH, in too many timezones the last few days

On 12/8/06, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
>
> If you folks can take time out of your busy December schedules, we can
> certainly provide coffee, other beverages and some nibbles.  If anyone is
> vegetarian or vegan please let me know.
>
> If we could have a firm headcount by 5:00 PM on Tuesday, 12/5, it would be
> much appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On 12/7/06, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> >
> > I'd expect that Google would much rather spring for coffee than let
> > people bring in outside cooking equipment, no matter how safe -- the
> > food and drink is free for visiting non-Googlers, too. :-)
> >
> > Not that I'm making this decision. Presumably Leslie will be back or
> > read her email before next Thursday.
> >
> > --Guido
> >
> > On 12/7/06, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > That said.. since it is meet & greet should we plan on bringing
> > > > refreshments? If it's ok with google (leslie?) I have a 40 cup
> > > > coffeemaker I can bring, steve (hindle) drinks a lot of coffee :-P.
> > >
> > >
> > > un4tunately, i think leslie is out-of-the-country and the moment...
> > > can any googlers comment on donna's request?
> > >
> > > -- wesley
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
> > >     http://corepython.com
> > >
> > > wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
> > > python training and technical consulting
> > > cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
> > > http://cyberwebconsulting.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/<http://www.python.org/%7Eguido/>
> > )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Open Source Program Office
> Google Inc.




-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Dec  8 21:14:41 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:14:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ADMIN: Board, meeting organizer, job postings
In-Reply-To: <20061208161224.GA15278@panix.com>
References: <20061208044208.49C531E400E@bag.python.org>
	<20061208161224.GA15278@panix.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612081214x2759ad3ct4cb8f89d4613b4d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/8/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006, Marilyn Davis wrote:
> >
> > Aahz, will you please give up your job as administrator of the list?
>
> No, thank you.

rofl ;)

To be the greatest, you must be the servant of the least.  Because of
this, being a  great leader is more of a hardship than a blessing.
I'm quite happy to let someone else do it! ;)

Happy Hacking!
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From tpc at csua.berkeley.edu  Mon Dec 11 19:37:08 2006
From: tpc at csua.berkeley.edu (tpc at csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:37:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] carpool from the East Bay to Dec 14 2006 meet and greet
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0612111037n6aec9b30l196c83f72d41a144@mail.gmail.com>

hey guys, I wonder if anyone would like to carpool from the East Bay for
this Thursday's meeting at Google.  I can drive or catch a ride with someone
if convenient.
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From bdbaddog at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 23:11:19 2006
From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:11:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
Message-ID: <8540148a0612111411g4b7cbbecnba721818219c8b21@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

Besides the python.org installer and activestate, are there any useful
python installers
which include more packages?

I know I've seen some announcements for python installers which
included wxwindows,etc.

However I couldn't re-find that info.

Anyone have a pointer?

Thanks,
Bill

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 12 00:10:53 2006
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:10:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <8540148a0612111411g4b7cbbecnba721818219c8b21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY131-F194BFD515B706F126AEA9BA0D00@phx.gbl>

[Since this question gets asked so often, how about a link page to the 
various batteries+packages-included distributions, by OS, Python version and 
package on baypiggies.net? There's also a difference between source and 
binary distributions - Stephen]

Enthought Python (Windows only, Python 2.4 and 2.3)

http://code.enthought.com/enthon/

Python Enthought Edition--Python 2.4.3 for Windows Enhanced Python 
Distribution

Carrying on Python's batteries included tradition of providing lots of great 
functionality right out of the box, Enthought, Inc. is pleased to make 
available Python 2.4.3 for Windows (Enthought Edition), a Python 
distribution that comes with even more useful capabilities already installed 
and ready for use. Download now.

In addition to all of the features provided with the standard Python 2.4.3 
distribution, Python 2.4.3 for Windows (Enthought Edition) also includes the 
following packages:

    * celementtree 1.0.5-20051216: C extension XML parsing
    * ctypes 0.9.9.6: A package to create and manipulate C data types in 
Python
    * Docutils 0.3.9: text processing system
    * elementtree 1.2.6-20050316: XML parsing
    * Enthought Tool Suite 1.0.9: A tool suite for building extensible 
python applications. This includes chaco, traits, kiva, envisage, etc.
    * epydoc 2.0: Automatic API Documentation Generation for Python
    * fpconst 0.7.2: Utilities for handling IEEE 754 floating point special 
values
    * GadflyZip: An SQL Relational Database in Python
    * IPython 0.7.2: A Python Shell done right.
    * Matplotlib 0.87.3.2478: Python 2D plotting library
    * MayaVi 1.5: 3D Data Visualization Tool
    * numarray 1.5.1: STScI rework of Numeric
    * Numeric 24.2: Numerical Python
    * NumPy 0.9.9.2706: Basic N-Dimensional Array manipulations
    * PIL 1.1.5: Python Imaging Library
    * pydot 0.9.10: Python interface to Graphviz's Dot language
    * pyparsing 1.4.1: Python based grammar parser
    * pyreadline 1.3: ctypes-based readline for Windows
    * pyserial 2.2: A python extension for accessing the serial port
    * PySQLite 2.2.2: A Python Extension for the SQLite embedded relational 
database
    * pysvn 1.4.1: Python interface to subversion version control system
    * pytables 1.2.3: Package for handling hierarchical datasets
    * pywin32 208: Python for Windows Extensions
    * PyXML 0.8.4: XML Tools
    * ScientificPython 2.4.11: A collection of Python modules for scientific 
computing
    * SciPy 0.5.0.2033: Scientific Library for Python
    * SOAPpy 0.11.6: SOAP/XML Schema library
    * TestOOB 1.1: Advanced unit testing framework
    * VTK 5.0: 3D Visualization Toolkit
    * wxPython 2.6.1.0: wxWindows for Python
    * ZODB3 3.6: ZODB and ZEO Object DataBase

_________________________________________________________________
View Athlete?s Collections with Live Search 
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01


From DennisR at dair.com  Tue Dec 12 00:13:17 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:13:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <8540148a0612111411g4b7cbbecnba721818219c8b21@mail.gmail.co
 m>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>


>Anyone have a pointer?


Sorry, I have always rolled my own by embedding the files I want inside a 
self-extracting compression executable.  I use WinRaR to compress my code.

In distributing WXPython, I have found it handy to compress what I need 
from WXPython into its own separate exe file.  Then I only have to deal 
with a single file during build.

Regards, Dennis
  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From max at theslimmers.net  Tue Dec 12 01:14:56 2006
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:14:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>
Message-ID: <200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>

I have a windows product that I use py2exe (along with setup.py) and then I
use a comercial product similar to installshield etal.  There are some
opensource install pkgs on source forge in fact there is a free gui for the
one I use ("Ghost Installer GUI"). And many more. I am guessing that since
you mentioned .exe that you are targeting windows. Py2exe can generate a zip
library and will include all the needed .dll's such as wxpython.

max



> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org 
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Reinhardt
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:13 PM
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
> 
> 
> >Anyone have a pointer?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I have always rolled my own by embedding the files I 
> want inside a self-extracting compression executable.  I use 
> WinRaR to compress my code.
> 
> In distributing WXPython, I have found it handy to compress 
> what I need from WXPython into its own separate exe file.  
> Then I only have to deal with a single file during build.
> 
> Regards, Dennis
>   ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>   ---------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From bdbaddog at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 01:44:52 2006
From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:44:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>
	<200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <8540148a0612111644l2d763c91qf64b91918aa5d7a5@mail.gmail.com>

All,

Dennis's respone about enthought python answered my question.
Although if anyone knows of similar windows python packaged with extensions, I'd
be interested in info on them too.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm not looking for a way to install a
python program
in windows, but rather an alternative distribution of python for
windows which includes
other packages.

Thanks to all for your responses.
-Bill

From DennisR at dair.com  Tue Dec 12 01:50:56 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:50:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211163023.00bea0b0@localhost>

Thanks Max.  I am not worried about including needed .dlls.  My concern is 
eliminating *unneeded* dlls.

What is needed or unneeded can best be determined dynamically.  Indeed, I 
have seen WXPython wrap an import with try-except where the exception 
specifies an alternate import.

A static analysis might include both such imports.  My manual analysis 
allows me to pick the one which minimizes download size subject to 
requirements.

I roll my own install packaging to have control over download size.  Doing 
so serves me well.  I mentioned roll your own in context as a doable 
alternative to python installers.

Without WX, my present DialogDevil download is 695,446 bytes.  The 
DialogDevil version I am working on now uses much of WXPython (and several 
pyd) and is 3,687,453 bytes.

Regards, Dennis

At 04:14 PM 12/11/2006, Max Slimmer wrote:
>I have a windows product that I use py2exe (along with setup.py) and then I
>use a comercial product similar to installshield etal.  There are some
>opensource install pkgs on source forge in fact there is a free gui for the
>one I use ("Ghost Installer GUI"). And many more. I am guessing that since
>you mentioned .exe that you are targeting windows. Py2exe can generate a zip
>library and will include all the needed .dll's such as wxpython.
>
>max
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> > [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Reinhardt
> > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:13 PM
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
> >
> >
> > >Anyone have a pointer?
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I have always rolled my own by embedding the files I
> > want inside a self-extracting compression executable.  I use
> > WinRaR to compress my code.
> >
> > In distributing WXPython, I have found it handy to compress
> > what I need from WXPython into its own separate exe file.
> > Then I only have to deal with a single file during build.
> >

  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From DennisR at dair.com  Tue Dec 12 01:55:40 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:55:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <8540148a0612111644l2d763c91qf64b91918aa5d7a5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>
	<200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211165333.00bfab50@localhost>

At 04:44 PM 12/11/2006, William Deegan wrote:
>Dennis's respone about enthought python answered my question.

I believe the enthought answer is due to Stephen, not me.  Credit where 
credit is due ...

Dennis


  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From nnorwitz at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 03:03:48 2006
From: nnorwitz at gmail.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:03:48 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Guido's talk
In-Reply-To: <20061202001129.GB8113@panix.com>
References: <20061201231945.875BF1E400E@bag.python.org>
	<20061202001129.GB8113@panix.com>
Message-ID: <ee2a432c0612111803v143f5142ke48fb79b43d0e6e0@mail.gmail.com>

The video of Guido's talk is now available:

  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866

n
--

On 12/1/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Marilyn Davis wrote:
> >
> > If you missed Guido's talk, you might like this:
> >
> > http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2006/11/google-mondrian.html
>
> ...and you can't get to it because it's been Slashdotted:
>
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/01/1952205
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From lhawthorn at google.com  Tue Dec 12 03:06:33 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:06:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Guido's talk
In-Reply-To: <ee2a432c0612111803v143f5142ke48fb79b43d0e6e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20061201231945.875BF1E400E@bag.python.org>
	<20061202001129.GB8113@panix.com>
	<ee2a432c0612111803v143f5142ke48fb79b43d0e6e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612111806pc01ad24w4dd8e2160791dabb@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Neal!

LH, who just returned from Holland and is buried in email

On 12/11/06, Neal Norwitz <nnorwitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The video of Guido's talk is now available:
>
>   http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8502904076440714866
>
> n
> --
>
> On 12/1/06, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 01, 2006, Marilyn Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > If you missed Guido's talk, you might like this:
> > >
> > > http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2006/11/google-mondrian.html
> >
> > ...and you can't get to it because it's been Slashdotted:
> >
> > http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/01/1952205
> > --
> > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> >
> > Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From bdbaddog at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 07:08:28 2006
From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:08:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows python installers?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211165333.00bfab50@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20061211150517.023a9540@localhost>
	<200612120015.kBC0F1iM023454@b.mail.sonic.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061211165333.00bfab50@localhost>
Message-ID: <8540148a0612112208v15b8a7cnd7649a5a24da2af1@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/11/06, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> At 04:44 PM 12/11/2006, William Deegan wrote:
> >Dennis's respone about enthought python answered my question.
>
> I believe the enthought answer is due to Stephen, not me.  Credit where
> credit is due ...

You are correct. Twas Stephen McInerney who provided the information!

-Bill

From wescpy at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 09:49:58 2006
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:49:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] ANN: BayPIGgies, Thu 12/14 7:30-9p, Mtn View
Message-ID: <78b3a9580612120049x21a82a7av7eb99c9043ea7022@mail.gmail.com>

reminder that we have a "lite" meeting this thursday evening at
Google.  it is a meet-n-greet event, almost a "long random access"
session where folks introduce themselves, mingle/network, discuss
common interests, and get to know one another in the community. we may
discuss any number of current topics such as Python 2.5, the upcoming
PyCon conference at Dallas at the end of Feb, the latest Python books
and reviews, future meeting coordination, etc.

more info and directions at http://baypiggies.net

pre-register here to avoid the long security lines:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings

hope to see some of you there!
-wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Tue Dec 12 21:23:38 2006
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:23:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, Dec 14, 6 pm
Message-ID: <5538c19b0612121223u22a74664sdc2e60f1763aeff4@mail.gmail.com>

For Thursday, Dec 14, I can coordinate a pre-meeting
dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting
at Google .

Restaurant RVSPs may be sent to my email until
Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style,
there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes.  Cost around
$10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please.

Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we
finish and get everyone headed towards Google to
complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start.

The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View
(650) 960-1677
743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where
Books, Inc is on the corner.
Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View
parking is still difficult.

It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese
restaurant.  This link has a downtown map and
additional information.
http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html

I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm
Thursday.

If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me
by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm
the headcount.

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 19:29:53 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:29:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.

In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From russell.whitaker at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 19:37:13 2006
From: russell.whitaker at gmail.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:37:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d0785d00612131037g2fa98749t58572f44a7f682b8@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
Russell Whitaker
http://www.survivalarts.com/

From aleax at google.com  Wed Dec 13 19:44:07 2006
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:44:07 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0612131044qecaf4bbtbcdc23ff9cb294f7@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.

A resounding +1 , assuming the talk is highly interactive and with
plenty of opportunity for debate -- I find the subject to be endlessly
fascinating, but I predict many of us will have a lot to say for or
against many of your observations:-)


Alex

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Wed Dec 13 19:56:30 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:56:30 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
Message-ID: <20061213185633.5CE3A1E400E@bag.python.org>


----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 aleax at google.com wrote:

> On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens  wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
>> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
>> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
>> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
>> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>>
>> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
>> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
>> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
>> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
>> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
>> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
> 
> A resounding +1 , assuming the talk is highly interactive and with
> plenty of opportunity for debate -- I find the subject to be endlessly
> fascinating, but I predict many of us will have a lot to say for or
> against many of your observations:-)

Darn it!  This sounds really interesting, and important.  But I have something else I have to do Thurs night.  Shucks, I wish it would happen later.  But, I can watch the video if it gets one more +1 vote.

I selfishly vote 0.

Marilyn
> 
> 
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



From guido at python.org  Wed Dec 13 19:56:32 2006
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:56:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20612131056t77480656r70e993aa9c6bbd29@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 13 20:01:26 2006
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:01:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY131-F27C8EE0B9346D8D8F6A413A0D60@phx.gbl>


+1 but can we keep it under 45min so we can also talk to each other?

Stephen

>From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
>To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
>Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:29:53 -0800
>
>Hey guys,
>
>If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
>greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
>tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
>that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
>of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
>In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
>purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
>in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
>please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
>eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
>good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
>Happy Hacking!
>-jj
>
>--
>http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>_______________________________________________
>Baypiggies mailing list
>Baypiggies at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

_________________________________________________________________
WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes ? enter the Microsoft Office Live 
Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/


From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 20:02:49 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0612131044qecaf4bbtbcdc23ff9cb294f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
	<55dc209b0612131044qecaf4bbtbcdc23ff9cb294f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131102y14c0bfcfk77501fed4bc2083b@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com> wrote:
> On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> > greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> > tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> > that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> > of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
> >
> > In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> > purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> > in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> > please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> > eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> > good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
> A resounding +1 , assuming the talk is highly interactive and with
> plenty of opportunity for debate -- I find the subject to be endlessly
> fascinating, but I predict many of us will have a lot to say for or
> against many of your observations:-)

Awesome!  We're on!

Alex, I agree with you completely.  The best case scenario is that
together we'll come up with some additional interesting insights which
I can funnel into a finalized article.

Happy Hacking!
-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From cvanarsdall at mvista.com  Wed Dec 13 20:05:18 2006
From: cvanarsdall at mvista.com (Carl J. Van Arsdall)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:05:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45804EEE.2040903@mvista.com>

I was very interested in the meet and greet, but this sounds like a good 
presentation.

Is it possible to start the talk a little later (maybe 30 minutes?) so 
that those of us who were interested in socializing can have 
anopportunity to do so?

If so, then i'm definitely a +1

-carl

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
>   


-- 

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall at mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software


From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 20:13:22 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:13:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <45804EEE.2040903@mvista.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
	<45804EEE.2040903@mvista.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131113r4abe523cv466abfae3a9d8c0@mail.gmail.com>

In response to Carl and Stephen's comments, I'd like to request that
someone else step up to act as time keeper and overall meeting
organizer.  I'll be busy with the talk, and I'll likely forget to look
at my stop watch.

Best Regards,
-jj

On 12/13/06, Carl J. Van Arsdall <cvanarsdall at mvista.com> wrote:
> I was very interested in the meet and greet, but this sounds like a good
> presentation.
>
> Is it possible to start the talk a little later (maybe 30 minutes?) so
> that those of us who were interested in socializing can have
> anopportunity to do so?
>
> If so, then i'm definitely a +1
>
> -carl
>
> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> > greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> > tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> > that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> > of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
> >
> > In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> > purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> > in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> > please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> > eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> > good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
> >
> > Happy Hacking!
> > -jj
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Carl J. Van Arsdall
> cvanarsdall at mvista.com
> Build and Release
> MontaVista Software
>
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From krishna2 at krishna2.com  Wed Dec 13 20:15:44 2006
From: krishna2 at krishna2.com (Krishna Srinivasan)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:15:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45805160.2030904@krishna2.com>


+1.


Now, I can openly cry out all the aquarium/glass
bugs which kills my productivity. ;)

Just kidding, looking forward to the talk.

-Krishna



Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
> 
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
> 
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
> 

From max at theslimmers.net  Wed Dec 13 21:06:21 2006
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <8d0785d00612131037g2fa98749t58572f44a7f682b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200612132006.kBDK6Qmk027013@b.mail.sonic.net>

Sounds good to me too 1+ 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org 
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Russell Whitaker
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:37 AM
> To: Shannon -jj Behrens
> Cc: Python
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
> 
> +1
> 
> On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a 
> simple meet and 
> > greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity 
> > tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I 
> realized 
> > that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a 
> room full 
> > of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
> >
> > In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own 
> nefarious 
> > purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is 
> interested 
> > in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm 
> a moron, 
> > please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not 
> > eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, 
> that'll be 
> > good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
> >
> > Happy Hacking!
> > -jj
> >
> > --
> > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Russell Whitaker
> http://www.survivalarts.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 21:31:29 2006
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:31:29 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0612131231g3aa6c521h481b5030d231a603@mail.gmail.com>

+1.1

On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.  Anyone who thinks I'm a moron,
> please respond with -1.  I've instructed my boss Todd that he's not
> eligible to vote -1.  If I get 3 votes in either direction, that'll be
> good enough to make the decision.  No votes means no talk.
>
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From eddymul at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 22:56:48 2006
From: eddymul at gmail.com (Eddy Mulyono)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:56:48 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67357fc10612131356k3bc690dcveeddf6141052cbc3@mail.gmail.com>

2006/12/13, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>:
> Hey guys,
>
> If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.

Sounds like a great offer.

> In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> in the talk, please respond with +1.

+1

I'm aware that there's already more than 3 +1's. But, just in case.....

-Eddy Mulyono

From lhawthorn at google.com  Wed Dec 13 23:09:18 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:09:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <67357fc10612131356k3bc690dcveeddf6141052cbc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
	<67357fc10612131356k3bc690dcveeddf6141052cbc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612131409w49a7d120v5a113106054b151d@mail.gmail.com>

+1

I'll see if I can reserve a video camera for us.

Cheers,
LH

On 12/13/06, Eddy Mulyono <eddymul at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2006/12/13, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> > greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> > tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> > that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> > of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
>
> Sounds like a great offer.
>
> > In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> > purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> > in the talk, please respond with +1.
>
> +1
>
> I'm aware that there's already more than 3 +1's. But, just in case.....
>
> -Eddy Mulyono
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
-------------- next part --------------
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From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 00:09:25 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:09:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] programmer productivity talk
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612131409w49a7d120v5a113106054b151d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131029j1a826e0bj6613df2909767694@mail.gmail.com>
	<67357fc10612131356k3bc690dcveeddf6141052cbc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612131409w49a7d120v5a113106054b151d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131509i65e82ff5vce5bc843fe2ab2d5@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, who can and wants to:

1. Update baypiggies.net with the new agenda?
2. Update Google's Wiki?
3. Send out the formal email?

Best Regards,
-jj

On 12/13/06, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> I'll see if I can reserve a video camera for us.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
>
> On 12/13/06, Eddy Mulyono <eddymul at gmail.com > wrote:
> > 2006/12/13, Shannon -jj Behrens < jjinux at gmail.com>:
> > > Hey guys,
> > >
> > > If everyone doesn't already have their hearts set on a simple meet and
> > > greet, I'd like to offer to give a talk on Programmer Productivity
> > > tomorrow.  I started working on an article last week, and I realized
> > > that I easily have enough objectionable material to keep a room full
> > > of rowdy Python programmers entertained for an hour.
> >
> > Sounds like a great offer.
> >
> > > In order to avoid unfairly hijacking the meeting for my own nefarious
> > > purposes, I'd like to propose a quick vote.  Anyone who is interested
> > > in the talk, please respond with +1.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > I'm aware that there's already more than 3 +1's. But, just in case.....
> >
> > -Eddy Mulyono
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Open Source Program Office
> Google Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>


-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 02:02:52 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:02:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
	Matters?"
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>

Thursday Dec. 14, 2006

7:30-8:50 p.m.   Technical Program
------------------------------------
Title          Programming Productivity: What Really Matters?
Presenter      Shannon -jj Behrens (Foxmarks)
About the talk Are you fascinated by programmer productivity? Do you
wish you could get more done in less time without sacrificing quality?
This talk will cover a broad range of topics such as work environment,
development environment, and programming language features.

8:50 p.m-...    Mapping and Random Access
------------------------------------------
Mapping Moderator  TBD
Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement open to all of topic headings
(one speaker at a time). Random Access session (everyone breaks up into
self-organized small-group discussion) follows immediately after Mapping.

From annaraven at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 02:11:13 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:11:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thursday Dec. 14, 2006
>
> 7:30-8:50 p.m.   Technical Program
> ------------------------------------
> Title          Programming Productivity: What Really Matters?
> Presenter      Shannon -jj Behrens (Foxmarks)
> About the talk Are you fascinated by programmer productivity? Do you
> wish you could get more done in less time without sacrificing quality?
> This talk will cover a broad range of topics such as work environment,
> development environment, and programming language features.
>
> 8:50 p.m-...    Mapping and Random Access
> ------------------------------------------
> Mapping Moderator  TBD

Instead of MAPPING could we *please* have a social time? PLEASE? Some
of us were really looking forward to that.

cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From mac at Wireless.Com  Thu Dec 14 02:17:39 2006
From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
 Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>

"Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".

So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...

Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions _about_ the meetings are(!).

-Mike


On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:

> On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thursday Dec. 14, 2006
>>
>> 7:30-8:50 p.m.   Technical Program
>> ------------------------------------
>> Title          Programming Productivity: What Really Matters?
>> Presenter      Shannon -jj Behrens (Foxmarks)
>> About the talk Are you fascinated by programmer productivity? Do you
>> wish you could get more done in less time without sacrificing quality?
>> This talk will cover a broad range of topics such as work environment,
>> development environment, and programming language features.
>>
>> 8:50 p.m-...    Mapping and Random Access
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Mapping Moderator  TBD
>
> Instead of MAPPING could we *please* have a social time? PLEASE? Some
> of us were really looking forward to that.
>
> cordially,
> Anna

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Thu Dec 14 02:18:36 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:18:36 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
Message-ID: <20061214011838.F291E1E400A@bag.python.org>


----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:

> On 12/13/06, Shannon -jj Behrens  wrote:
>> Thursday Dec. 14, 2006
>>
>> 7:30-8:50 p.m.   Technical Program
>> ------------------------------------
>> Title          Programming Productivity: What Really Matters?
>> Presenter      Shannon -jj Behrens (Foxmarks)
>> About the talk Are you fascinated by programmer productivity? Do you
>> wish you could get more done in less time without sacrificing quality?
>> This talk will cover a broad range of topics such as work environment,
>> development environment, and programming language features.
>>
>> 8:50 p.m-...    Mapping and Random Access
>> ------------------------------------------
>> Mapping Moderator  TBD
> 
> Instead of MAPPING could we *please* have a social time? PLEASE? Some
> of us were really looking forward to that.

Yes, and please, can it be first, as someone else suggested?

I'm hoping I can slip away from my other thing and get there late.

It seems to be shaping up into an evening that ought not be missed.

Marilyn

> 
> cordially,
> Anna
> --
> It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



From annaraven at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 02:22:03 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
>
> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
>
> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions _about_ the meetings are(!).
>
> -Mike

I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.

I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.

OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
mapping can stay for that?

Anna

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 03:09:35 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
	<cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> >
> > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> >
> > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions _about_ the meetings are(!).
> >
> > -Mike
>
> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
>
> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
>
> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> mapping can stay for that?

It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want 30
minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
talk.  That's fine by me.

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From DennisR at dair.com  Thu Dec 14 03:17:51 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
 Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
	<c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0@localhost>

At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:

>OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
>the meeting -

Anna,

I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has organized (at 
least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you are 
looking for and in the time frame you ask for.

If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks like:

         7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
         7:30 - 9:00 meeting program

Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30 
pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much socialization 
gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the 7:00 to 
7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well.  Suppose 
we revise the schedule to read

         7:00 - x:yz social
         x:yz - 9:00 program

I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking the 
room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being 
there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time preceding 
every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is possible.

Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the entire 
80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is called 
starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand for that.

The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's talk 
entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while meet and 
greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and 
free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some of us) 
is a preferred use of the time available.

If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend them as a 
good way to socialize.

Dennis


  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From annaraven at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 03:57:16 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0@localhost>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0@localhost>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7@mail.gmail.com>

Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".

To me, socializing is not:

"mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
grouping process seems to take forever.)

dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
hour is my idea of hell.)

extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...

Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.

Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
snacks and beverages is nice.

I would like a chance to socialize.

Cordially,
Anna

From marilyn at deliberate.com  Thu Dec 14 06:56:50 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006@bag.python.org>


----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:

> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> 
> To me, socializing is not:
> 
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
> 
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
> 
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> 
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.

Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the right thing.  We're not there yet.

Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the program starts when people first arrive?

So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.

I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Marilyn

> 
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> snacks and beverages is nice.
> 
> I would like a chance to socialize.
> 
> Cordially,
> Anna
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



From annaraven at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 07:06:25 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>
> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the right thing.  We're not there yet.
>
> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the program starts when people first arrive?
>
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>

The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have the
discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to have
that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked for
a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to discuss
if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we want
a socializing time.

> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a chance
to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From aleax at google.com  Thu Dec 14 07:54:46 2006
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
   ...
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.

OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
(marginally) prefer the first option.

Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
this makes me a "girlyman":-).


> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).


Alex

From lhawthorn at google.com  Thu Dec 14 12:12:51 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:12:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>

I can check to see if the room is available at 6 instead of 7.  Then perhaps
socializing until the presentation at 7 PM?  We'll see if this works out
well with catering, security and events.

Cheers,
LH

>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
> From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID:
>         <55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is
> divided against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any
> judgement or conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>
> OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
> tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
> I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
> subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
> of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
> be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
> (marginally) prefer the first option.
>
> Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
> that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
> this makes me a "girlyman":-).
>
>
> > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> ******************************************
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From tpc at csua.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec 14 14:41:32 2006
From: tpc at csua.berkeley.edu (tpc at csua.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:41:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bae1efdf0612140541g16423fd7jb59e4258cb32a7cf@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
>
> I can check to see if the room is available at 6 instead of 7.  Then
> perhaps socializing until the presentation at 7 PM?  We'll see if this works
> out well with catering, security and events.
>
> Cheers,
> LH


Leslie, that would be tres cool, though I understand if it doesn't work out
on such short notice.  Now that the group has gotten larger and we're at a
different venue, I think we've had to designate a "maestro" to orchestrate
the start and stop times of the meetings.  Dennis has done a tremendous job,
and not to take anything away from him, I remember he said he was never
really fond of meetings with no set agenda, so it's understandable if
icebreaking time is not really included in the meeting plan.  It's
important, though, I think.

As I was explaining to someone yesterday at the SD Forum Amazon Web Services
event, when BayPIGgies was smaller, I remember when Chad Netzer would come
in the room bearing bags of Sun chips, Ruffles and packages of Keebler
chocolate chip cookies, and several bottles of soda, and we'd wait until the
presentation was over before we dug in (once he even brought in a cooler
filled with bottles of beer).  We would pass around the hat so someone could
get reimbursed for the cost of the goodies, and then would commence 2
glorious hours of milling around snacking and chatting it up with
like-minded folk.  Those were fun times, and hearing Anna and Marilyn makes
me long for those days.  Sometimes it would even spill over into the parking
lot after hours when the room had to be closed and locked.  Now we've gone
from BYOB to catered events.  What other interest group do you know of
though where the creator is also a member ?  It's still a rare opportunity
that in my experience is very much the cherry on top to any entrant in the
field.
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From lhawthorn at google.com  Thu Dec 14 14:42:17 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:42:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <bae1efdf0612140537u668bac9fr8bddd3a10fc86e33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0612140537u668bac9fr8bddd3a10fc86e33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, tpc247 at gmail.com <tpc247 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Leslie, that would be tres cool, though I understand if it doesn't work
> out on such short notice.  Now that the group has gotten larger and we're at
> a different venue, I think we've had to designate a "maestro" to orchestrate
> the start and stop times of the meetings.  Dennis has done a tremendous job,
> and not to take anything away from him, I remember he said he was never
> really fond of meetings with no set agenda, so it's understandable if
> icebreaking time is not really included in the meeting plan.  It's
> important, though, I think.
>
> As I was explaining to someone yesterday at the SD Forum Amazon Web
> Services event, when BayPIGgies was smaller, I remember when Chad Netzer
> would come in the room bearing bags of Sun chips, Ruffles and packages of
> Keebler chocolate chip cookies, and several bottles of soda, and we'd wait
> until the presentation was over before we dug in (once he even brought in a
> cooler filled with bottles of beer).  We would pass around the hat so
> someone could get reimbursed for the cost of the goodies, and then would
> commence 2 glorious hours of milling around snacking and chatting it up with
> like-minded folk.  Those were fun times, and hearing Anna and Marilyn makes
> me long for those days.  Sometimes it would even spill over into the parking
> lot after hours when the room had to be closed and locked.  Now we've gone
> from BYOB to catered events.  What other interest group do you know of
> though where the creator is also a member ?  It's still a rare opportunity
> that in my experience is very much the cherry on top to any entrant in the
> field.
>
>
> I'll see what I can do and I will bring pretzels and other chips.  We can
dig in whenever.

Cheers,
LH


-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From cvanarsdall at mvista.com  Thu Dec 14 17:39:20 2006
From: cvanarsdall at mvista.com (Carl J. Van Arsdall)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:39:20 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
 Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>	<5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0@localhost>
	<cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45817E38.5010103@mvista.com>

I think Anna has several good points.  Being that this meeting was toted 
originally as a "meet n greet"  I think that it would be most fair to 
maintain part of the schedule for that purpose and fit the presentation 
around that, as it propositioned last minute. 

I think an informal meet and greet (and not dinner or lobby time) is 
important and should be done earlier in this meeting while people are 
still fresh and interested in speaking to one another.  After meetings 
is not normally good for social time, presentations make people tired 
and not as outgoing (at least in my experience). 

Just my 2cents.

Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
>
> To me, socializing is not:
>
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
>
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
>
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> snacks and beverages is nice.
>
> I would like a chance to socialize.
>
> Cordially,
> Anna
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>   


-- 

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall at mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 18:43:55 2006
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:43:55 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What
	Really Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <45817E38.5010103@mvista.com>
References: <c41f67b90612131702o5c223d10oe0d95e1c04a0eba3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cb361a610612131711n5753927ne37442a421e62e95@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612131714340.1049@S.culver.net>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0@localhost>
	<cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<45817E38.5010103@mvista.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0612140943y4879fe73y3c0079b4971c5d17@mail.gmail.com>

>>Just my 2cents.
I see your 2, and raise you 2.
Given that it's the holiday season, I like the idea of a social session too.



On 12/14/06, Carl J. Van Arsdall <cvanarsdall at mvista.com> wrote:
>
> I think Anna has several good points.  Being that this meeting was toted
> originally as a "meet n greet"  I think that it would be most fair to
> maintain part of the schedule for that purpose and fit the presentation
> around that, as it propositioned last minute.
>
> I think an informal meet and greet (and not dinner or lobby time) is
> important and should be done earlier in this meeting while people are
> still fresh and interested in speaking to one another.  After meetings
> is not normally good for social time, presentations make people tired
> and not as outgoing (at least in my experience).
>
> Just my 2cents.
>
> Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> > Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> >
> > To me, socializing is not:
> >
> > "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> > grouping process seems to take forever.)
> >
> > dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> > in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> > hour is my idea of hell.)
> >
> > extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> > who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> > patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> > someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> > about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> >
> > Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> > be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> > Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
> >
> > Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> > choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> > the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> > snacks and beverages is nice.
> >
> > I would like a chance to socialize.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Anna
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Carl J. Van Arsdall
> cvanarsdall at mvista.com
> Build and Release
> MontaVista Software
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec 14 19:16:31 2006
From: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu (Sharon Kazemi)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:16:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to python---many
	thanks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>

Hi all,

have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
software.
I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
Thanks
Sheri

/*  The Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization
algorithm is the process of finding, for a section of a polyline,
the vertex that is furthest from the line segment joining the
two endpoints.  The method coded below in C (or C++) is the most
efficient, in terms of operation counts, that I have seen.  */
 /*  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  */

long FurthestFromSegment ( /* Return index of furthest point.  */
    long    startindex,    /* Index of start vertex in arrays.  */
    long    endindex,      /* Index of end vertex in arrays.  */
    double *x         ,    /* Array, abscissae of polyline vertices. */
    double *y         ,    /* Array, ordinates of polyline vertices. */
    double *distMaxSquare  /* Return square of maximum distance.  */
                         )
  /*
   This function, given a section of a polyline in arrays,
    will return the index of the intermediate node that is furthest
    from the segment joining the two endpoints of the section,
    and the square of the distance from the segment.

   If no intermediate point exists, then the returned index will
    be the index of the start vertex and the returned distance
    squared will be -1.0 .  Caution:  Do not calculate the square
    root of this returned value without ruling out the possibility
    that it may have defaulted to -1.0 .  In a normal
    Douglas-Peucker application, you should never have to calculate
    the square root of this output value, and you should never
    need to invoke this function without intermediate points.
  */
{
      /*
       The variable names below assume we find
         the distance of point "A" from segment "BC" .
      */
    long index, outindex ;
    double distSquare, bcSquare ;
    double cx, cy, bx, by, ax, ay ;
    double bcx, bcy, bax, bay, cax, cay ;

    *distMaxSquare  =  -1.0 ;
    if ( endindex  <  startindex + 2 )    return startindex ;
    outindex  =  startindex ;
    bx  =  x[startindex] ;
    by  =  y[startindex] ;
    cx  =  x[endindex] ;
    cy  =  y[endindex] ;
      /* Find vector BC and the Square of its length.  */
    bcx  =  cx - bx ;
    bcy  =  cy - by ;
    bcSquare  =  bcx * bcx  +  bcy * bcy ;
      /* The inner loop:  */
    for ( index = startindex + 1 ; index < endindex ; index++ )
    {
          /* Find vector BA .  */
        ax  =  x[index] ;
        ay  =  y[index] ;
        bax  =  ax - bx ;
        bay  =  ay - by ;
          /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
        if ( bcx * bax  +  bcy * bay    <=    0.0 )
        {
              /* Closest point on segment is B; */
              /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
            distSquare   =   bax * bax  +  bay * bay ;
        }
        else
        {
              /* Find vector CA .  */
            cax  =  ax - cx ;
            cay  =  ay - cy ;
              /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
            if ( bcx * cax  +  bcy * cay    >=    0.0 )
            {
                  /* Closest point on segment is C; */
                  /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
                distSquare   =   cax * cax  +  cay * cay ;
            }
            else
            {
                  /* Closest point on segment is between B and C; */
                  /*    Use perpendicular distance formula.  */
                distSquare    =    cax * bay  -  cay * bax ;
                distSquare    =    distSquare * distSquare / bcSquare ;
                      /* Note that if bcSquare be zero, the first
                          of the three branches will be selected,
                          so division by zero will not occur here. */
            }
        }

        if ( distSquare > *distMaxSquare )
        {
            outindex  =  index ;
            *distMaxSquare  =  distSquare ;
        }
    }
      /*
         Note that in the inner loop above, if we follow
         the most common path where the perpendicular
         distance is the one to calculate, then for each
         intermediate vertex the float operation count is
         1 divide, 7 multiplies, 5 subtracts, 1 add, and 2 compares.
      */

    return outindex ;
}

Sharon Kazemi
Visiting Scholar/GIS Analyst
Geographic Information Science Center
412 Wurster Hall
University of California Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1820
Phone: +1-510-642-2812
Fax: +1-510-643-3412
Email: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu
http://www.gisc.berkeley.edu/



-----Original Message-----
From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
[mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
baypiggies-request at python.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 AM
To: baypiggies at python.org
Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16


Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
	baypiggies at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	baypiggies-request at python.org

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	baypiggies-owner at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
   2. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Shannon -jj Behrens)
   3. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
      Matters?" (Dennis Reinhardt)
   4. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
   5. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Marilyn Davis)
   6. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
   7. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
      Matters?" (Alex Martelli)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: "Mike Cheponis" <mac at wireless.com>
Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
Message-ID:
	<cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
>
> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also,
those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
>
> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
_about_ the meetings are(!).
>
> -Mike

I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.

I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.

OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
mapping can stay for that?

Anna


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com>
Message-ID:
	<c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> >
> > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".
Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> >
> > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
_about_ the meetings are(!).
> >
> > -Mike
>
> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
>
> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
>
> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> mapping can stay for that?

It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want 30
minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
talk.  That's fine by me.

-jj

--
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What Really Matters?"
To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0 at localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:

>OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
>the meeting -

Anna,

I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has organized (at
least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you are
looking for and in the time frame you ask for.

If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks like:

         7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
         7:30 - 9:00 meeting program

Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30
pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much socialization
gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the 7:00 to
7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well.  Suppose
we revise the schedule to read

         7:00 - x:yz social
         x:yz - 9:00 program

I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking the
room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being
there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time preceding
every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is possible.

Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the entire
80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is called
starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand for that.

The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's talk
entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while meet and
greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and
free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some of us)
is a preferred use of the time available.

If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend them as a
good way to socialize.

Dennis


  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: "Dennis Reinhardt" <DennisR at dair.com>
Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
Message-ID:
	<cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".

To me, socializing is not:

"mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
grouping process seems to take forever.)

dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
hour is my idea of hell.)

extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...

Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.

Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
snacks and beverages is nice.

I would like a chance to socialize.

Cordially,
Anna


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: baypiggies at python.org
Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006 at bag.python.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"


----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:

> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
>
> To me, socializing is not:
>
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
>
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.

Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
right thing.  We're not there yet.

Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
program starts when people first arrive?

So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.

I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Marilyn

>
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> snacks and beverages is nice.
>
> I would like a chance to socialize.
>
> Cordially,
> Anna
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
Cc: baypiggies at python.org
Message-ID:
	<cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>
> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
right thing.  We're not there yet.
>
> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
program starts when people first arrive?
>
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>

The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have the
discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to have
that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked for
a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to discuss
if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we want
a socializing time.

> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a chance
to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.

--
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	What	Really Matters?"
To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
Cc: baypiggies at python.org
Message-ID:
	<55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
   ...
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.

OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
(marginally) prefer the first option.

Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
this makes me a "girlyman":-).


> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.

Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).


Alex


------------------------------

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End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
******************************************




From whitaker at google.com  Thu Dec 14 19:22:47 2006
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:22:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
	python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <997a56990612141022q43b98bb7g42be2fbe775491a0@mail.gmail.com>

At first approximation, this sounds like a request for free consulting, or a
"do my homework for me" request.  Am I mistaken?  Or is this associated with
a known, collaborative opensource project on sourceforge?

Curious,
Russell

On 12/14/06, Sharon Kazemi <sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
> software.
> I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
> Thanks
> Sheri
>
> /*  The Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization
> algorithm is the process of finding, for a section of a polyline,
> the vertex that is furthest from the line segment joining the
> two endpoints.  The method coded below in C (or C++) is the most
> efficient, in terms of operation counts, that I have seen.  */
>  /*  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  */
>
> long FurthestFromSegment ( /* Return index of furthest point.  */
>     long    startindex,    /* Index of start vertex in arrays.  */
>     long    endindex,      /* Index of end vertex in arrays.  */
>     double *x         ,    /* Array, abscissae of polyline vertices. */
>     double *y         ,    /* Array, ordinates of polyline vertices. */
>     double *distMaxSquare  /* Return square of maximum distance.  */
>                          )
>   /*
>    This function, given a section of a polyline in arrays,
>     will return the index of the intermediate node that is furthest
>     from the segment joining the two endpoints of the section,
>     and the square of the distance from the segment.
>
>    If no intermediate point exists, then the returned index will
>     be the index of the start vertex and the returned distance
>     squared will be -1.0 .  Caution:  Do not calculate the square
>     root of this returned value without ruling out the possibility
>     that it may have defaulted to -1.0 .  In a normal
>     Douglas-Peucker application, you should never have to calculate
>     the square root of this output value, and you should never
>     need to invoke this function without intermediate points.
>   */
> {
>       /*
>        The variable names below assume we find
>          the distance of point "A" from segment "BC" .
>       */
>     long index, outindex ;
>     double distSquare, bcSquare ;
>     double cx, cy, bx, by, ax, ay ;
>     double bcx, bcy, bax, bay, cax, cay ;
>
>     *distMaxSquare  =  -1.0 ;
>     if ( endindex  <  startindex + 2 )    return startindex ;
>     outindex  =  startindex ;
>     bx  =  x[startindex] ;
>     by  =  y[startindex] ;
>     cx  =  x[endindex] ;
>     cy  =  y[endindex] ;
>       /* Find vector BC and the Square of its length.  */
>     bcx  =  cx - bx ;
>     bcy  =  cy - by ;
>     bcSquare  =  bcx * bcx  +  bcy * bcy ;
>       /* The inner loop:  */
>     for ( index = startindex + 1 ; index < endindex ; index++ )
>     {
>           /* Find vector BA .  */
>         ax  =  x[index] ;
>         ay  =  y[index] ;
>         bax  =  ax - bx ;
>         bay  =  ay - by ;
>           /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
>         if ( bcx * bax  +  bcy * bay    <=    0.0 )
>         {
>               /* Closest point on segment is B; */
>               /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
>             distSquare   =   bax * bax  +  bay * bay ;
>         }
>         else
>         {
>               /* Find vector CA .  */
>             cax  =  ax - cx ;
>             cay  =  ay - cy ;
>               /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
>             if ( bcx * cax  +  bcy * cay    >=    0.0 )
>             {
>                   /* Closest point on segment is C; */
>                   /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
>                 distSquare   =   cax * cax  +  cay * cay ;
>             }
>             else
>             {
>                   /* Closest point on segment is between B and C; */
>                   /*    Use perpendicular distance formula.  */
>                 distSquare    =    cax * bay  -  cay * bax ;
>                 distSquare    =    distSquare * distSquare / bcSquare ;
>                       /* Note that if bcSquare be zero, the first
>                           of the three branches will be selected,
>                           so division by zero will not occur here. */
>             }
>         }
>
>         if ( distSquare > *distMaxSquare )
>         {
>             outindex  =  index ;
>             *distMaxSquare  =  distSquare ;
>         }
>     }
>       /*
>          Note that in the inner loop above, if we follow
>          the most common path where the perpendicular
>          distance is the one to calculate, then for each
>          intermediate vertex the float operation count is
>          1 divide, 7 multiplies, 5 subtracts, 1 add, and 2 compares.
>       */
>
>     return outindex ;
> }
>
> Sharon Kazemi
> Visiting Scholar/GIS Analyst
> Geographic Information Science Center
> 412 Wurster Hall
> University of California Berkeley
> Berkeley, CA 94720-1820
> Phone: +1-510-642-2812
> Fax: +1-510-643-3412
> Email: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu
> http://www.gisc.berkeley.edu/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
> baypiggies-request at python.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 AM
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
>
>
> Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
>         baypiggies at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         baypiggies-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         baypiggies-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>    2. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Shannon -jj Behrens)
>    3. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
>       Matters?" (Dennis Reinhardt)
>    4. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>    5. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Marilyn Davis)
>    6. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>    7. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What      Really
>       Matters?" (Alex Martelli)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Mike Cheponis" <mac at wireless.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> >
> > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also,
> those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> >
> > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> _about_ the meetings are(!).
> >
> > -Mike
>
> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
>
> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
>
> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> mapping can stay for that?
>
> Anna
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
> From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> > >
> > > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".
> Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> > >
> > > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> _about_ the meetings are(!).
> > >
> > > -Mike
> >
> > I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
> >
> > I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> > over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> > and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> > was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
> >
> > OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> > the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> > mapping can stay for that?
>
> It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want 30
> minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
> talk.  That's fine by me.
>
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
> From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What Really Matters?"
> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0 at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
>
> >OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> >the meeting -
>
> Anna,
>
> I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has organized (at
> least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you are
> looking for and in the time frame you ask for.
>
> If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks like:
>
>          7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
>          7:30 - 9:00 meeting program
>
> Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30
> pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much socialization
> gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the 7:00 to
> 7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well.  Suppose
> we revise the schedule to read
>
>          7:00 - x:yz social
>          x:yz - 9:00 program
>
> I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking the
> room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being
> there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time preceding
> every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is possible.
>
> Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the entire
> 80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is called
> starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand for that.
>
> The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's talk
> entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while meet and
> greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and
> free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some of us)
> is a preferred use of the time available.
>
> If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend them as a
> good way to socialize.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>   ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>   ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Dennis Reinhardt" <DennisR at dair.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
>
> To me, socializing is not:
>
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
>
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
>
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> snacks and beverages is nice.
>
> I would like a chance to socialize.
>
> Cordially,
> Anna
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
> From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006 at bag.python.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> >
> > To me, socializing is not:
> >
> > "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> > grouping process seems to take forever.)
> >
> > dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> > in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> > hour is my idea of hell.)
> >
> > extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> > who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> > patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> > someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> > about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> >
> > Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> > be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> > Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
>
> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> right thing.  We're not there yet.
>
> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> program starts when people first arrive?
>
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>
> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Marilyn
>
> >
> > Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> > choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> > the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> > snacks and beverages is nice.
> >
> > I would like a chance to socialize.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Anna
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID:
>         <cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> >
> > ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> right thing.  We're not there yet.
> >
> > Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> program starts when people first arrive?
> >
> > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >
>
> The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
> socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have the
> discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
> milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to have
> that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked for
> a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to discuss
> if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
> disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
> agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we want
> a socializing time.
>
> > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a chance
> to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.
>
> --
> cordially,
> Anna
> --
> It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
> From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
>         What    Really Matters?"
> To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID:
>         <55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>    ...
> > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>
> OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
> tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
> I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
> subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
> of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
> be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
> (marginally) prefer the first option.
>
> Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
> that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
> this makes me a "girlyman":-).
>
>
> > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> ******************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
Russell Whitaker
Sysops Tools Team Lead
http://www.corp.google.com/~whitaker/
"From the point of view of any orthodoxy, myth might be defined as
'other people's
religion'... to which an equivalent definition of religion might be
'misunderstood mythology'."
- Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

From ppergame at cisco.com  Thu Dec 14 19:41:27 2006
From: ppergame at cisco.com (Pavel Pergamenshchik)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:41:27 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
 python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <997a56990612141022q43b98bb7g42be2fbe775491a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
	<997a56990612141022q43b98bb7g42be2fbe775491a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061214104127.12f1a6e8@wamble.cisco.com>

I'm guessing the software in question is sold
through http://store.esri.com/esri/ at prices of several hundred
dollars.
Sharon appears to be significantly confused.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:22:47 -0800
"Russell Whitaker" <whitaker at google.com> wrote:

> At first approximation, this sounds like a request for free
consulting, or a
> "do my homework for me" request.  Am I mistaken?  Or is this
associated with
> a known, collaborative opensource project on sourceforge?
> 
> Curious,
> Russell
> 
> On 12/14/06, Sharon Kazemi <sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI
ArcGIS
> > software.
> > I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
> > Thanks
> > Sheri
> >
> > /*  The Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization
> > algorithm is the process of finding, for a section of a polyline,
> > the vertex that is furthest from the line segment joining the
> > two endpoints.  The method coded below in C (or C++) is the most
> > efficient, in terms of operation counts, that I have seen.  */
> >  /*  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
*/
> >
> > long FurthestFromSegment ( /* Return index of furthest point.  */
> >     long    startindex,    /* Index of start vertex in arrays.  */
> >     long    endindex,      /* Index of end vertex in arrays.  */
> >     double *x         ,    /* Array, abscissae of polyline vertices.
*/
> >     double *y         ,    /* Array, ordinates of polyline vertices.
*/
> >     double *distMaxSquare  /* Return square of maximum distance.  */
> >                          )
> >   /*
> >    This function, given a section of a polyline in arrays,
> >     will return the index of the intermediate node that is furthest
> >     from the segment joining the two endpoints of the section,
> >     and the square of the distance from the segment.
> >
> >    If no intermediate point exists, then the returned index will
> >     be the index of the start vertex and the returned distance
> >     squared will be -1.0 .  Caution:  Do not calculate the square
> >     root of this returned value without ruling out the possibility
> >     that it may have defaulted to -1.0 .  In a normal
> >     Douglas-Peucker application, you should never have to calculate
> >     the square root of this output value, and you should never
> >     need to invoke this function without intermediate points.
> >   */
> > {
> >       /*
> >        The variable names below assume we find
> >          the distance of point "A" from segment "BC" .
> >       */
> >     long index, outindex ;
> >     double distSquare, bcSquare ;
> >     double cx, cy, bx, by, ax, ay ;
> >     double bcx, bcy, bax, bay, cax, cay ;
> >
> >     *distMaxSquare  =  -1.0 ;
> >     if ( endindex  <  startindex + 2 )    return startindex ;
> >     outindex  =  startindex ;
> >     bx  =  x[startindex] ;
> >     by  =  y[startindex] ;
> >     cx  =  x[endindex] ;
> >     cy  =  y[endindex] ;
> >       /* Find vector BC and the Square of its length.  */
> >     bcx  =  cx - bx ;
> >     bcy  =  cy - by ;
> >     bcSquare  =  bcx * bcx  +  bcy * bcy ;
> >       /* The inner loop:  */
> >     for ( index = startindex + 1 ; index < endindex ; index++ )
> >     {
> >           /* Find vector BA .  */
> >         ax  =  x[index] ;
> >         ay  =  y[index] ;
> >         bax  =  ax - bx ;
> >         bay  =  ay - by ;
> >           /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
> >         if ( bcx * bax  +  bcy * bay    <=    0.0 )
> >         {
> >               /* Closest point on segment is B; */
> >               /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
> >             distSquare   =   bax * bax  +  bay * bay ;
> >         }
> >         else
> >         {
> >               /* Find vector CA .  */
> >             cax  =  ax - cx ;
> >             cay  =  ay - cy ;
> >               /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
> >             if ( bcx * cax  +  bcy * cay    >=    0.0 )
> >             {
> >                   /* Closest point on segment is C; */
> >                   /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
> >                 distSquare   =   cax * cax  +  cay * cay ;
> >             }
> >             else
> >             {
> >                   /* Closest point on segment is between B and C; */
> >                   /*    Use perpendicular distance formula.  */
> >                 distSquare    =    cax * bay  -  cay * bax ;
> >                 distSquare    =    distSquare * distSquare /
bcSquare ;
> >                       /* Note that if bcSquare be zero, the first
> >                           of the three branches will be selected,
> >                           so division by zero will not occur here.
*/
> >             }
> >         }
> >
> >         if ( distSquare > *distMaxSquare )
> >         {
> >             outindex  =  index ;
> >             *distMaxSquare  =  distSquare ;
> >         }
> >     }
> >       /*
> >          Note that in the inner loop above, if we follow
> >          the most common path where the perpendicular
> >          distance is the one to calculate, then for each
> >          intermediate vertex the float operation count is
> >          1 divide, 7 multiplies, 5 subtracts, 1 add, and 2 compares.
> >       */
> >
> >     return outindex ;
> > }
> >
> > Sharon Kazemi
> > Visiting Scholar/GIS Analyst
> > Geographic Information Science Center
> > 412 Wurster Hall
> > University of California Berkeley
> > Berkeley, CA 94720-1820
> > Phone: +1-510-642-2812
> > Fax: +1-510-643-3412
> > Email: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu
> > http://www.gisc.berkeley.edu/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> > [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
> > baypiggies-request at python.org
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 AM
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> >
> >
> > Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
> >         baypiggies at python.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         baypiggies-request at python.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         baypiggies-owner at python.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >    2. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Shannon -jj Behrens)
> >    3. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
> >       Matters?" (Dennis Reinhardt)
> >    4. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >    5. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Marilyn Davis)
> >    6. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >    7. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     
Really
> >       Matters?" (Alex Martelli)
> >
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Mike Cheponis" <mac at wireless.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >        
<cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> > >
> > > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social
Time".  Also,
> > those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> > >
> > > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our
discussions
> > _about_ the meetings are(!).
> > >
> > > -Mike
> >
> > I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
> >
> > I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> > over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final
tomorrow
> > and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> > was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
> >
> > OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> > the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do
the
> > mapping can stay for that?
> >
> > Anna
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
> > From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >        
<c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> > > > "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> > > >
> > > > So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social
Time".
> > Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social"
mapping...
> > > >
> > > > Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our
discussions
> > _about_ the meetings are(!).
> > > >
> > > > -Mike
> > >
> > > I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
> > >
> > > I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to
get
> > > over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final
tomorrow
> > > and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early.
I
> > > was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
> > >
> > > OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part
of
> > > the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do
the
> > > mapping can stay for that?
> >
> > It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want
30
> > minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
> > talk.  That's fine by me.
> >
> > -jj
> >
> > --
> > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
> > From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What Really Matters?"
> > To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0 at localhost>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> >
> > >OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part
of
> > >the meeting -
> >
> > Anna,
> >
> > I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has
organized (at
> > least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you
are
> > looking for and in the time frame you ask for.
> >
> > If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks
like:
> >
> >          7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
> >          7:30 - 9:00 meeting program
> >
> > Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30
> > pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much
socialization
> > gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the
7:00 to
> > 7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well. 
Suppose
> > we revise the schedule to read
> >
> >          7:00 - x:yz social
> >          x:yz - 9:00 program
> >
> > I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking
the
> > room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being
> > there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time
preceding
> > every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is
possible.
> >
> > Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the
entire
> > 80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is
called
> > starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand
for that.
> >
> > The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's
talk
> > entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while
meet and
> > greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and
> > free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some
of us)
> > is a preferred use of the time available.
> >
> > If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend
them as a
> > good way to socialize.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >   ---------------------------------
> > | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> > | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
> >   ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Dennis Reinhardt" <DennisR at dair.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >        
<cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> >
> > To me, socializing is not:
> >
> > "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> > grouping process seems to take forever.)
> >
> > dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have
nothing
> > in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> > hour is my idea of hell.)
> >
> > extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> > who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or
waiting
> > patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> > someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> > about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> >
> > Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge
and
> > be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to
start.
> > Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
> >
> > Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people,
_by
> > choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format --
including
> > the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> > snacks and beverages is nice.
> >
> > I would like a chance to socialize.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Anna
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
> > From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006 at bag.python.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> > >
> > > To me, socializing is not:
> > >
> > > "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and
the
> > > grouping process seems to take forever.)
> > >
> > > dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have
nothing
> > > in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> > > hour is my idea of hell.)
> > >
> > > extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of
us
> > > who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or
waiting
> > > patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> > > someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> > > about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> > >
> > > Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge
and
> > > be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to
start.
> > > Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
> >
> > Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is
not the
> > right thing.  We're not there yet.
> >
> > Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if
the
> > program starts when people first arrive?
> >
> > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is
divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any
judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >
> > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Marilyn
> >
> > >
> > > Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people,
_by
> > > choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format --
including
> > > the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> > > snacks and beverages is nice.
> > >
> > > I would like a chance to socialize.
> > >
> > > Cordially,
> > > Anna
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        
<cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is
not the
> > right thing.  We're not there yet.
> > >
> > > Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if
the
> > program starts when people first arrive?
> > >
> > > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is
divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any
judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> > >
> >
> > The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
> > socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have
the
> > discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
> > milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to
have
> > that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked
for
> > a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to
discuss
> > if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
> > disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
> > agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we
want
> > a socializing time.
> >
> > > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a
chance
> > to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.
> >
> > --
> > cordially,
> > Anna
> > --
> > It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
> > From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >         What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        
<55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> >    ...
> > > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is
divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any
judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >
> > OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
> > tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
> > I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
> > subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
> > of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going
to
> > be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
> > (marginally) prefer the first option.
> >
> > Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to
do
> > that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
> > this makes me a "girlyman":-).
> >
> >
> > > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> > End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> > ******************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Russell Whitaker
> Sysops Tools Team Lead
> http://www.corp.google.com/~whitaker/
> "From the point of view of any orthodoxy, myth might be defined as
> 'other people's
> religion'... to which an equivalent definition of religion might be
> 'misunderstood mythology'."
> - Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From max at theslimmers.net  Thu Dec 14 20:04:23 2006
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:04:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
	WhatReally Matters?"
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0612140943y4879fe73y3c0079b4971c5d17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200612141904.kBEJ4OU4000681@a.mail.sonic.net>

Couldn't help myself, just had to comment.  The problem I see with doing the
socialization first and then moving into all be it short presentation, is
that it will require bringing any fun conversations to an abrupt end, and
probably make it difficult to re-capture the moment.  Obviously a difficult
problem, but I would think that a short (timed) presentation first and then
open the rest of the evening up for socializing and snaks etc.
 
max


  _____  

From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]
On Behalf Of Tony Cappellini
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:44 AM
To: Carl J. Van Arsdall
Cc: Python; Dennis Reinhardt
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
WhatReally Matters?"


>>Just my 2cents.
I see your 2, and raise you 2.
Given that it's the holiday season, I like the idea of a social session too.




On 12/14/06, Carl J. Van Arsdall <cvanarsdall at mvista.com> wrote: 

I think Anna has several good points.  Being that this meeting was toted
originally as a "meet n greet"  I think that it would be most fair to
maintain part of the schedule for that purpose and fit the presentation 
around that, as it propositioned last minute.

I think an informal meet and greet (and not dinner or lobby time) is
important and should be done earlier in this meeting while people are
still fresh and interested in speaking to one another.  After meetings 
is not normally good for social time, presentations make people tired
and not as outgoing (at least in my experience).

Just my 2cents.

Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing". 
>
> To me, socializing is not:
>
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing 
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
>
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting 
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted. 
>
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having 
> snacks and beverages is nice.
>
> I would like a chance to socialize.
>
> Cordially,
> Anna
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


--

Carl J. Van Arsdall
cvanarsdall at mvista.com
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



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From bos at serpentine.com  Thu Dec 14 20:48:44 2006
From: bos at serpentine.com (Bryan O'Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:48:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
 python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
References: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <4581AA9C.4020305@serpentine.com>

Sharon Kazemi wrote:

> have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
> software.
> I would greatly appreciate any assistance.

Hi, Sheri -

I see you spammed the Python.NET list with the same homework question, 
and gifted them with a corresponding huge list digest attachment, too.

Not to be put off by such small matters, I've written a version of the 
routine you cited in Haskell.  I trust you'll have an easier time 
translating it into Python.

Regards,

	<b

furthest :: [(Float, Float)] -> (Int, Float)
furthest ps | length ps < 2 = (0, -1.0)
             | otherwise     = maxList $ zip (intsFrom 1) $
                               map dist $ tail ps
             where (bx, by) = head ps
                   (cx, cy) = last ps
                   bcx      = cx - bx
                   bcy      = cy - by
                   intsFrom n = n : intsFrom (n + 1)
                   maxList (x:xs) = foldl maxDist x xs
                   maxDist a1@(_, d1) a2@(_, d2) | d1 > d2   = a1
                                                 | otherwise = a2
                   dist (ax, ay) = let bax = ax - bx
                                       bay = ay - by
                                       cax = ax - cx
                                       cay = ay - cy
                                       d = cax * bay - cay * bax
                                   in
                                   if bcx * bax + bcy * bay <= 0.0
                                   then bax * bax + bay * bay
                                   else if bcx * cax + bcy * cay >= 0.0
                                        then cax * cax + cay * cay
                                        else d * d / (bcx*bcx+bcy*bcy)

From cbc at unc.edu  Thu Dec 14 21:04:10 2006
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:04:10 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
 python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
References: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <4581AE3A.4090103@unc.edu>

Sharon Kazemi wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
> software.
> I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
> Thanks
> Sheri

Chill. There are lots of people who have to do GIS who are not yet 
Python proficient. ESRI threw its users off the Python deep end on in 
the last couple of years. Most of them are not even programmers. "Model 
builders" generate code for them. And Ms. Kazemi wants user contributed 
code ported. There is a huge base of free user contributed code which 
has not yet been ported. The code in the ESRI store, which sells for 
thousands, does not come with source.

Here it is recoded in Python. I suspect many people could do this 
blindfolded, as there was nothing which wasn't straightforward in the 
code. For use in ArcGIS, it depends what in ArcGIS is calling it. The 
original C function is being passed pointers to C arrays in memory, and 
expecting both a return value (index of the intermediate node) and a 
memory location pointed to set (to the square of the distance). This 
Python code does the same Pythonically, expecting tuples and returning a 
tuple. But you will have to call it Pythonically. Python invokes ArcGIS 
code through a win32com object. What is calling Ms. Kazemi's code is 
unknown. The computation of distMaxSquare looks pretty squirrelly as well.

And thanks for reminding me once again why I do Python. Just looking at 
C anymore gives me a headache.

The following is untested and unwarranted:

def furthestFromSegment(startindex, endindex, x, y):
     """Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization algorithm.

     furthestFromSegment(long, long, tuple, tuple) -> (long, float)
     """

     distMaxSquare = -1.0
     if endindex < (startindex + 2):
         return (startindex, distMaxSquare)

     outindex = startindex
     bx = x[startindex]
     by = y[startindex]
     cx = x[endindex]
     cy = y[endindex]
     bcx = cx - bx
     bcy = cy - by
     bcSquare = (bcx**2) + (bcy**2)

     for index in range(startindex + 1, endindex):
         ax = x[index]
         ay = y[index]
         bax = ax - bx
         bay = ay - by

         if ((bcx * bax) + (bcy * bay)) <= 0.0:
             distSquare = (bax**2) + (bay**2)
         else:
             cax = ax - cx
             cay = ay - cy

             if ((bcx * cax) + (bcy * cay)) >= 0.0:
                 distSquare = (cax**2) + (cay**2)
             else:
                 distSquare = (cax * bay) - (cay * bax)
                 distSquare = (distSquare**2) / bcSquare

         if distSquare > distMaxSquare:
             outindex = index
             distMaxSquare = distSquare

     return (outindex, distMaxSquare)

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.seacoos.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 962-4323
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From mac at Wireless.Com  Thu Dec 14 21:58:45 2006
From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:58:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
 python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
References: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612141257040.1049@S.culver.net>

As I see it, the correct answer is to wrap this C function so it's callable from Python.

That way, no recoding, maximum performance.

-Mike


p.s. I'll send a bill later.  You gotta know exactly where to tap the hammer...



On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Sharon Kazemi wrote:

> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:16:31 -0800
> From: Sharon Kazemi <sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu>
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to python---many
>     thanks
> 
> Hi all,
>
> have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
> software.
> I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
> Thanks
> Sheri
>
> /*  The Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization
> algorithm is the process of finding, for a section of a polyline,
> the vertex that is furthest from the line segment joining the
> two endpoints.  The method coded below in C (or C++) is the most
> efficient, in terms of operation counts, that I have seen.  */
> /*  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  */
>
> long FurthestFromSegment ( /* Return index of furthest point.  */
>    long    startindex,    /* Index of start vertex in arrays.  */
>    long    endindex,      /* Index of end vertex in arrays.  */
>    double *x         ,    /* Array, abscissae of polyline vertices. */
>    double *y         ,    /* Array, ordinates of polyline vertices. */
>    double *distMaxSquare  /* Return square of maximum distance.  */
>                         )
>  /*
>   This function, given a section of a polyline in arrays,
>    will return the index of the intermediate node that is furthest
>    from the segment joining the two endpoints of the section,
>    and the square of the distance from the segment.
>
>   If no intermediate point exists, then the returned index will
>    be the index of the start vertex and the returned distance
>    squared will be -1.0 .  Caution:  Do not calculate the square
>    root of this returned value without ruling out the possibility
>    that it may have defaulted to -1.0 .  In a normal
>    Douglas-Peucker application, you should never have to calculate
>    the square root of this output value, and you should never
>    need to invoke this function without intermediate points.
>  */
> {
>      /*
>       The variable names below assume we find
>         the distance of point "A" from segment "BC" .
>      */
>    long index, outindex ;
>    double distSquare, bcSquare ;
>    double cx, cy, bx, by, ax, ay ;
>    double bcx, bcy, bax, bay, cax, cay ;
>
>    *distMaxSquare  =  -1.0 ;
>    if ( endindex  <  startindex + 2 )    return startindex ;
>    outindex  =  startindex ;
>    bx  =  x[startindex] ;
>    by  =  y[startindex] ;
>    cx  =  x[endindex] ;
>    cy  =  y[endindex] ;
>      /* Find vector BC and the Square of its length.  */
>    bcx  =  cx - bx ;
>    bcy  =  cy - by ;
>    bcSquare  =  bcx * bcx  +  bcy * bcy ;
>      /* The inner loop:  */
>    for ( index = startindex + 1 ; index < endindex ; index++ )
>    {
>          /* Find vector BA .  */
>        ax  =  x[index] ;
>        ay  =  y[index] ;
>        bax  =  ax - bx ;
>        bay  =  ay - by ;
>          /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
>        if ( bcx * bax  +  bcy * bay    <=    0.0 )
>        {
>              /* Closest point on segment is B; */
>              /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
>            distSquare   =   bax * bax  +  bay * bay ;
>        }
>        else
>        {
>              /* Find vector CA .  */
>            cax  =  ax - cx ;
>            cay  =  ay - cy ;
>              /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
>            if ( bcx * cax  +  bcy * cay    >=    0.0 )
>            {
>                  /* Closest point on segment is C; */
>                  /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
>                distSquare   =   cax * cax  +  cay * cay ;
>            }
>            else
>            {
>                  /* Closest point on segment is between B and C; */
>                  /*    Use perpendicular distance formula.  */
>                distSquare    =    cax * bay  -  cay * bax ;
>                distSquare    =    distSquare * distSquare / bcSquare ;
>                      /* Note that if bcSquare be zero, the first
>                          of the three branches will be selected,
>                          so division by zero will not occur here. */
>            }
>        }
>
>        if ( distSquare > *distMaxSquare )
>        {
>            outindex  =  index ;
>            *distMaxSquare  =  distSquare ;
>        }
>    }
>      /*
>         Note that in the inner loop above, if we follow
>         the most common path where the perpendicular
>         distance is the one to calculate, then for each
>         intermediate vertex the float operation count is
>         1 divide, 7 multiplies, 5 subtracts, 1 add, and 2 compares.
>      */
>
>    return outindex ;
> }
>
> Sharon Kazemi
> Visiting Scholar/GIS Analyst
> Geographic Information Science Center
> 412 Wurster Hall
> University of California Berkeley
> Berkeley, CA 94720-1820
> Phone: +1-510-642-2812
> Fax: +1-510-643-3412
> Email: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu
> http://www.gisc.berkeley.edu/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
> baypiggies-request at python.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 AM
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
>
>
> Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
> 	baypiggies at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	baypiggies-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	baypiggies-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>   2. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Shannon -jj Behrens)
>   3. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
>      Matters?" (Dennis Reinhardt)
>   4. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>   5. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Marilyn Davis)
>   6. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
>   7. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What	Really
>      Matters?" (Alex Martelli)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: "Mike Cheponis" <mac at wireless.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
>> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
>>
>> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also,
> those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
>>
>> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> _about_ the meetings are(!).
>>
>> -Mike
>
> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
>
> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
>
> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> mapping can stay for that?
>
> Anna
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
> From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
>>> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
>>>
>>> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".
> Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
>>>
>>> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> _about_ the meetings are(!).
>>>
>>> -Mike
>>
>> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
>>
>> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
>> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
>> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
>> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
>>
>> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
>> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
>> mapping can stay for that?
>
> It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want 30
> minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
> talk.  That's fine by me.
>
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
> From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What Really Matters?"
> To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0 at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
>
>> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
>> the meeting -
>
> Anna,
>
> I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has organized (at
> least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you are
> looking for and in the time frame you ask for.
>
> If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks like:
>
>         7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
>         7:30 - 9:00 meeting program
>
> Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30
> pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much socialization
> gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the 7:00 to
> 7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well.  Suppose
> we revise the schedule to read
>
>         7:00 - x:yz social
>         x:yz - 9:00 program
>
> I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking the
> room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being
> there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time preceding
> every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is possible.
>
> Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the entire
> 80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is called
> starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand for that.
>
> The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's talk
> entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while meet and
> greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and
> free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some of us)
> is a preferred use of the time available.
>
> If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend them as a
> good way to socialize.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>  ---------------------------------
> | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
>  ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: "Dennis Reinhardt" <DennisR at dair.com>
> Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
>
> To me, socializing is not:
>
> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>
> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> hour is my idea of hell.)
>
> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>
> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
>
> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> snacks and beverages is nice.
>
> I would like a chance to socialize.
>
> Cordially,
> Anna
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
> From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006 at bag.python.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
>>
>> To me, socializing is not:
>>
>> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
>> grouping process seems to take forever.)
>>
>> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
>> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
>> hour is my idea of hell.)
>>
>> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
>> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
>> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
>> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
>> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
>>
>> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
>> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
>> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
>
> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> right thing.  We're not there yet.
>
> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> program starts when people first arrive?
>
> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>
> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Marilyn
>
>>
>> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
>> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
>> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
>> snacks and beverages is nice.
>>
>> I would like a chance to socialize.
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Anna
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
> From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>>
>> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> right thing.  We're not there yet.
>>
>> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> program starts when people first arrive?
>>
>> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>>
>
> The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
> socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have the
> discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
> milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to have
> that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked for
> a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to discuss
> if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
> disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
> agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we want
> a socializing time.
>
>> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a chance
> to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.
>
> --
> cordially,
> Anna
> --
> It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
> From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> 	What	Really Matters?"
> To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
>   ...
>> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
>
> OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
> tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
> I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
> subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
> of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
> be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
> (marginally) prefer the first option.
>
> Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
> that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
> this makes me a "girlyman":-).
>
>
>> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
>
> Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
> End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> ******************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


From whitaker at google.com  Thu Dec 14 22:33:23 2006
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:33:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
	python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612141257040.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612141257040.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <997a56990612141333g21f6ad0bgc9b85b82262c3015@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> As I see it, the correct answer is to wrap this C function so it's callable from Python.
>
> That way, no recoding, maximum performance.
>
> -Mike
>
>
> p.s. I'll send a bill later.  You gotta know exactly where to tap the hammer...
>

Charles Proteus Steinmetz!  A classic piece of engineering lore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinmetz%2C_Charles_Proteus

:)

Russell

>
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Sharon Kazemi wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:16:31 -0800
> > From: Sharon Kazemi <sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu>
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to python---many
> >     thanks
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > have below code that needs to be recoded into Python for use in ESRI ArcGIS
> > software.
> > I would greatly appreciate any assistance.
> > Thanks
> > Sheri
> >
> > /*  The Inner Loop of the Douglas-Peucker line generalization
> > algorithm is the process of finding, for a section of a polyline,
> > the vertex that is furthest from the line segment joining the
> > two endpoints.  The method coded below in C (or C++) is the most
> > efficient, in terms of operation counts, that I have seen.  */
> > /*  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  */
> >
> > long FurthestFromSegment ( /* Return index of furthest point.  */
> >    long    startindex,    /* Index of start vertex in arrays.  */
> >    long    endindex,      /* Index of end vertex in arrays.  */
> >    double *x         ,    /* Array, abscissae of polyline vertices. */
> >    double *y         ,    /* Array, ordinates of polyline vertices. */
> >    double *distMaxSquare  /* Return square of maximum distance.  */
> >                         )
> >  /*
> >   This function, given a section of a polyline in arrays,
> >    will return the index of the intermediate node that is furthest
> >    from the segment joining the two endpoints of the section,
> >    and the square of the distance from the segment.
> >
> >   If no intermediate point exists, then the returned index will
> >    be the index of the start vertex and the returned distance
> >    squared will be -1.0 .  Caution:  Do not calculate the square
> >    root of this returned value without ruling out the possibility
> >    that it may have defaulted to -1.0 .  In a normal
> >    Douglas-Peucker application, you should never have to calculate
> >    the square root of this output value, and you should never
> >    need to invoke this function without intermediate points.
> >  */
> > {
> >      /*
> >       The variable names below assume we find
> >         the distance of point "A" from segment "BC" .
> >      */
> >    long index, outindex ;
> >    double distSquare, bcSquare ;
> >    double cx, cy, bx, by, ax, ay ;
> >    double bcx, bcy, bax, bay, cax, cay ;
> >
> >    *distMaxSquare  =  -1.0 ;
> >    if ( endindex  <  startindex + 2 )    return startindex ;
> >    outindex  =  startindex ;
> >    bx  =  x[startindex] ;
> >    by  =  y[startindex] ;
> >    cx  =  x[endindex] ;
> >    cy  =  y[endindex] ;
> >      /* Find vector BC and the Square of its length.  */
> >    bcx  =  cx - bx ;
> >    bcy  =  cy - by ;
> >    bcSquare  =  bcx * bcx  +  bcy * bcy ;
> >      /* The inner loop:  */
> >    for ( index = startindex + 1 ; index < endindex ; index++ )
> >    {
> >          /* Find vector BA .  */
> >        ax  =  x[index] ;
> >        ay  =  y[index] ;
> >        bax  =  ax - bx ;
> >        bay  =  ay - by ;
> >          /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
> >        if ( bcx * bax  +  bcy * bay    <=    0.0 )
> >        {
> >              /* Closest point on segment is B; */
> >              /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
> >            distSquare   =   bax * bax  +  bay * bay ;
> >        }
> >        else
> >        {
> >              /* Find vector CA .  */
> >            cax  =  ax - cx ;
> >            cay  =  ay - cy ;
> >              /* Do scalar product and check sign.  */
> >            if ( bcx * cax  +  bcy * cay    >=    0.0 )
> >            {
> >                  /* Closest point on segment is C; */
> >                  /*   find its distance (squared) from A .  */
> >                distSquare   =   cax * cax  +  cay * cay ;
> >            }
> >            else
> >            {
> >                  /* Closest point on segment is between B and C; */
> >                  /*    Use perpendicular distance formula.  */
> >                distSquare    =    cax * bay  -  cay * bax ;
> >                distSquare    =    distSquare * distSquare / bcSquare ;
> >                      /* Note that if bcSquare be zero, the first
> >                          of the three branches will be selected,
> >                          so division by zero will not occur here. */
> >            }
> >        }
> >
> >        if ( distSquare > *distMaxSquare )
> >        {
> >            outindex  =  index ;
> >            *distMaxSquare  =  distSquare ;
> >        }
> >    }
> >      /*
> >         Note that in the inner loop above, if we follow
> >         the most common path where the perpendicular
> >         distance is the one to calculate, then for each
> >         intermediate vertex the float operation count is
> >         1 divide, 7 multiplies, 5 subtracts, 1 add, and 2 compares.
> >      */
> >
> >    return outindex ;
> > }
> >
> > Sharon Kazemi
> > Visiting Scholar/GIS Analyst
> > Geographic Information Science Center
> > 412 Wurster Hall
> > University of California Berkeley
> > Berkeley, CA 94720-1820
> > Phone: +1-510-642-2812
> > Fax: +1-510-643-3412
> > Email: sharonk at gisc.berkeley.edu
> > http://www.gisc.berkeley.edu/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org
> > [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
> > baypiggies-request at python.org
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:00 AM
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Subject: Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> >
> >
> > Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to
> >       baypiggies at python.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >       http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >       baypiggies-request at python.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >       baypiggies-owner at python.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >   2. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Shannon -jj Behrens)
> >   3. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What Really
> >      Matters?" (Dennis Reinhardt)
> >   4. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >   5. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Marilyn Davis)
> >   6. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Anna Ravenscroft)
> >   7. Re:  Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity: What     Really
> >      Matters?" (Alex Martelli)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:22:03 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Mike Cheponis" <mac at wireless.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <cb361a610612131722v7c6fef90ha4504a604b9b5246 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> >> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> >>
> >> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".  Also,
> > those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> >>
> >> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> > _about_ the meetings are(!).
> >>
> >> -Mike
> >
> > I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
> >
> > I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> > over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> > and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> > was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
> >
> > OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> > the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> > mapping can stay for that?
> >
> > Anna
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:09:35 -0800
> > From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" <jjinux at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <c41f67b90612131809q37612254i1007ffe3e5fb7667 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 12/13/06, Mike Cheponis <mac at wireless.com> wrote:
> >>> "Social Time" is really just "Random Mapping".
> >>>
> >>> So, if nobody stands up during "Mapping" you get all "Social Time".
> > Also, those that don't "map" are, by default, in the "Social" mapping...
> >>>
> >>> Don't worry, the meetings aren't nearly as formal as our discussions
> > _about_ the meetings are(!).
> >>>
> >>> -Mike
> >>
> >> I've been to the meetings. Social TIme != mapping.
> >>
> >> I don't have time or energy to wait for the formal "mapping" to get
> >> over with before I can socialize with people. I have a final tomorrow
> >> and expect to be pretty exhausted and wanting to go to bed early. I
> >> was looking forward to some generic, informal socializing.
> >>
> >> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> >> the meeting - that way those who want (and have the energy) to do the
> >> mapping can stay for that?
> >
> > It sounds like we have a pretty vocal contingent of people who want 30
> > minutes of informal socializing followed by an hour for the actual
> > talk.  That's fine by me.
> >
> > -jj
> >
> > --
> > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:17:51 -0800
> > From: Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What Really Matters?"
> > To: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061213173953.023a51d0 at localhost>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > At 05:22 PM 12/13/2006, Anna Ravenscroft wrote:
> >
> >> OR can we have some freeform socializing BEFORE the official part of
> >> the meeting -
> >
> > Anna,
> >
> > I have regularly attended the pre-dinner meetings Brian has organized (at
> > least the ones at IronPort).  They may well be the social time you are
> > looking for and in the time frame you ask for.
> >
> > If one looks at the agenda template we have had this year, it looks like:
> >
> >         7:00 - 7:30 unstructured pre-meeting
> >         7:30 - 9:00 meeting program
> >
> > Nothing has prevented people from socializing in the 7:00 - 7:30
> > pre-meeting time frame.  By my observation, not that much socialization
> > gets done then.  Whatever limiters there are in socializing in the 7:00 to
> > 7:30 time frame are likely to affect tomorrow's meeting as well.  Suppose
> > we revise the schedule to read
> >
> >         7:00 - x:yz social
> >         x:yz - 9:00 program
> >
> > I don't think moving the 7:00 earlier is that easy without checking the
> > room schedule or someone from Google taking responsibility for being
> > there.  Could happen but the fact is that we already have an time preceding
> > every meeting where completely unstructured socialization is possible.
> >
> > Suppose we set x:yz to 7:40, allowing JJ's presentation to take the entire
> > 80 minutes.  IMO, we have run that experiment as well and it is called
> > starting the meeting 10 minutes late.  I have not seen the demand for that.
> >
> > The major alternative here is set x:yz to 9:00 and shut down JJ's talk
> > entirely.  My sense is that JJ has a great talk planned and while meet and
> > greet was preferred to no meeting at all, JJ's unabridged talk and
> > free-for-all discussion (i.e. what passes for socialization for some of us)
> > is a preferred use of the time available.
> >
> > If you have not attended the pre-meeting dinners, I can recommend them as a
> > good way to socialize.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >  ---------------------------------
> > | Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
> > | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
> >  ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:57:16 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Dennis Reinhardt" <DennisR at dair.com>
> > Cc: Python <baypiggies at python.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <cb361a610612131857r7a3a18c5u20344f1f13398cb7 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> >
> > To me, socializing is not:
> >
> > "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> > grouping process seems to take forever.)
> >
> > dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> > in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> > hour is my idea of hell.)
> >
> > extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> > who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> > patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> > someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> > about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> >
> > Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> > be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> > Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
> >
> > Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> > choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> > the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> > snacks and beverages is nice.
> >
> > I would like a chance to socialize.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Anna
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:56:50 -0800
> > From: Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID: <20061214055653.9296D1E4006 at bag.python.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Okay - let me describe what I mean by "socializing".
> >>
> >> To me, socializing is not:
> >>
> >> "mapping" (mapping is a formal structure grouping up people and the
> >> grouping process seems to take forever.)
> >>
> >> dinner (getting stuck next to someone I've never met and have nothing
> >> in common with and having to make smalltalk with them for the next
> >> hour is my idea of hell.)
> >>
> >> extending the Q&A session after a presentation - leaving those of us
> >> who have heard enough stuck with the choice of being *rude* or waiting
> >> patiently in hopes that eventually we can stand up and go talk to
> >> someone we have been wanting to talk with - which usually happens
> >> about 5 minutes before we're kicked out of the room...
> >>
> >> Milling around in the lobby of google waiting to fill out a badge and
> >> be shepherded up to a room just in time for the presentation to start.
> >> Not everyone is there, and we're usually rather distracted.
> >
> > Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> > right thing.  We're not there yet.
> >
> > Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> > program starts when people first arrive?
> >
> > So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >
> > I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Marilyn
> >
> >>
> >> Socializing - what I'm asking for - is a chance to talk to people, _by
> >> choice_ -- not by enforced proximity or structured format -- including
> >> the chance to walk around and talk to more than one person. Having
> >> snacks and beverages is nice.
> >>
> >> I would like a chance to socialize.
> >>
> >> Cordially,
> >> Anna
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Baypiggies mailing list
> >> Baypiggies at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:25 -0800
> > From: "Anna Ravenscroft" <annaraven at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID:
> >       <cb361a610612132206i163aad6frfebd13274094cdac at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ----- On Wednesday, December 13, 2006 annaraven at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeh.  We are not allowed in early, as far as I know.  The lobby is not the
> > right thing.  We're not there yet.
> >>
> >> Google is providing snacks?  How do the snacks get snacked upon if the
> > program starts when people first arrive?
> >>
> >> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >>
> >
> > The main disagreement I really see is a different definition of
> > socializing. Which is why I posted my definition so we could have the
> > discussion be more clear. Some people apparently consider the lobby
> > milling or the mapping to be socializing. That's okay for them to have
> > that definition - but it's not what I was asking for when I asked for
> > a chance to socialize, and so I figured it would be easier to discuss
> > if we had a definition on the table. (whether for people to agree or
> > disagree with - at least we're not assuming what it means.) Once we
> > agree on what it means to "socialize" we can agree on whether we want
> > a socializing time.
> >
> >> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Me too. I'm sure the presentation will be great. I hope I get a chance
> > to chat with you. I haven't had much opportunity for that.
> >
> > --
> > cordially,
> > Anna
> > --
> > It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:54:46 -0800
> > From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at google.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Dec. 14 Meeting "Programming Productivity:
> >       What    Really Matters?"
> > To: "Marilyn Davis" <marilyn at deliberate.com>
> > Cc: baypiggies at python.org
> > Message-ID:
> >       <55dc209b0612132254y6ea79c01h257c2d515fbe6fd6 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 12/13/06, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> >   ...
> >> So far, it seems to me, this little disagreement we are having is divided
> > against the gender axis.  Just commenting, I don't have any judgement or
> > conclusion about it, I just find it interesting.
> >
> > OK, so let me weigh in...: I _know_ I'm going to be seriously tired
> > tomorrow night, except (perhaps, with some luck:-) very early on, as
> > I'm going to have a long and intense workday before it; so, from my
> > subjective POV the tradeoff is -- am I going to be dozing at the end
> > of the presentation (if we have socialtime _before_), or am I going to
> > be dozing through socialtime (if we have it _after_).  Overall, I'd
> > (marginally) prefer the first option.
> >
> > Sorry to spoil the nice gender-axis alignment, but then, I tend to do
> > that (I guess that, according to our great State's great governor,
> > this makes me a "girlyman":-).
> >
> >
> >> I'm looking forward to whatever part I'm able to get to.
> >
> > Likewise, except s/get to/be awake for/ :-).
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> > End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
> > ******************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
Russell Whitaker
Sysops Tools Team Lead
http://www.corp.google.com/~whitaker/
"From the point of view of any orthodoxy, myth might be defined as
'other people's
religion'... to which an equivalent definition of religion might be
'misunderstood mythology'."
- Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

From cbc at unc.edu  Thu Dec 14 23:13:47 2006
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:13:47 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hi all -can anyone convert this code to
 python---many thanks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612141257040.1049@S.culver.net>
References: <GJEHLOKFAEOKMOCAIPJIMEDFCAAA.sharonk@gisc.berkeley.edu>
	<Pine.NEB.4.64.0612141257040.1049@S.culver.net>
Message-ID: <4581CC9B.5070402@unc.edu>

Mike Cheponis wrote:
> That way, no recoding, maximum performance.

And the point data can exceed 2G points (limited by the size of a 
sequence index in the Python version).

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.seacoos.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 962-4323
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599




From lhawthorn at google.com  Thu Dec 14 23:22:59 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:22:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0612140537u668bac9fr8bddd3a10fc86e33@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612141422m6709766dsb3cdac1754b8dfcf@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:I'll see what I
can do and I will bring pretzels and other chips.  We can dig in whenever.

>
> Cheers,
> LH


Afraid it looks like the earliest I can open the doors this evening will be
6:45 PM.  Please plan to arrive then or shortly after.

Cheers,
LH



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From DennisR at dair.com  Fri Dec 15 00:29:00 2006
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:29:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612141422m6709766dsb3cdac1754b8dfcf@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0612140537u668bac9fr8bddd3a10fc86e33@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20061214152248.023a05d8@localhost>

At 02:22 PM 12/14/2006, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:

>Afraid it looks like the earliest I can open the doors this evening will 
>be 6:45 PM.  Please plan to arrive then or shortly after.


Thanks, Leslie.

I will try to be flexible about starting the presentation.  If it looks 
like most people are seated, waiting for the program to start, I will push 
to start on-time at 7:30.  If most people are socializing, my inclination 
is to push back program start until 7:45.

If there is a late start, I still propose ending formal meeting on time at 
9:00 by eliminating mapping.

Regards, Dennis

  ---------------------------------
| Dennis    | DennisR at dair.com    |
| Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com |
  ---------------------------------


From annaraven at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 01:22:00 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:22:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20061214152248.023a05d8@localhost>
References: <mailman.61.1166094014.711.baypiggies@python.org>
	<4869cee70612140312y2e9d2e1cpf6cf3f041795eeda@mail.gmail.com>
	<bae1efdf0612140537u668bac9fr8bddd3a10fc86e33@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612140542y44ed83bxea822301601b4831@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.0.20061214152248.023a05d8@localhost>
Message-ID: <cb361a610612141622n3f342d9r2a64a85299de742d@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Dennis Reinhardt <DennisR at dair.com> wrote:
> At 02:22 PM 12/14/2006, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:
>
> >Afraid it looks like the earliest I can open the doors this evening will
> >be 6:45 PM.  Please plan to arrive then or shortly after.

I will arrive after dinner at Google with my husband. Google diners
open at 6:30. Most people, I think need to get dinner before the
meeting so opening earlier than 6:45 really wouldn't be all that
helpful, I think. In other words, don't worry about not being able to
open earlier than 6:45. Anyways, you're a sweetheart for trying to
help facilitate everything.

> Thanks, Leslie.
>
> I will try to be flexible about starting the presentation.  If it looks
> like most people are seated, waiting for the program to start, I will push
> to start on-time at 7:30.  If most people are socializing, my inclination
> is to push back program start until 7:45.

Being able to get in and socialize for half hour or so will be
wonderful. Thanks for being flexible on this Dennis.

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From ross at pcnt.com  Fri Dec 15 02:03:17 2006
From: ross at pcnt.com (Ross Parlette)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:03:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Reply Courtesy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4772.1166135084.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
References: <mailman.4772.1166135084.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200612141703.AA03170004@pcnt.com>

When people reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut off the tails?

When people reply to a reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut off the 
tails too?

When people reply to a reply to a reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut 
off the tails too too?

When people reply to a reply to a reply to a reply to a summary, could they 
PLEASE cut off the tails too too too?

... (repeat and expand as needed using the iterator of your choice) ...

When you don't, the number of letters in the summary drops, as yours is 
soooo BBBBIIIIGGGG.

Ross



From guido at python.org  Fri Dec 15 02:42:23 2006
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:42:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Reply Courtesy
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F200612141703.AA03170004@pcnt.com>
References: <mailman.4772.1166135084.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
	<WorldClient-F200612141703.AA03170004@pcnt.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20612141742y78525ae0s4fa9ebc7b85e1fec@mail.gmail.com>

Um, what do you mean by a summary?

On 12/14/06, Ross Parlette <ross at pcnt.com> wrote:
> When people reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut off the tails?
>
> When people reply to a reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut off the
> tails too?
>
> When people reply to a reply to a reply to a summary, could they PLEASE cut
> off the tails too too?
>
> When people reply to a reply to a reply to a reply to a summary, could they
> PLEASE cut off the tails too too too?
>
> ... (repeat and expand as needed using the iterator of your choice) ...
>
> When you don't, the number of letters in the summary drops, as yours is
> soooo BBBBIIIIGGGG.
>
> Ross
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From coryomand at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 05:08:33 2006
From: coryomand at gmail.com (Cory Omand)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:08:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Reply Courtesy
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20612141742y78525ae0s4fa9ebc7b85e1fec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4772.1166135084.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
	<WorldClient-F200612141703.AA03170004@pcnt.com>
	<ca471dc20612141742y78525ae0s4fa9ebc7b85e1fec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ffd485d70612142008v202c24bcyca613c51094470d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> Um, what do you mean by a summary?

I assumed that summary == digest.  I agree that it's not the best
practice to reply on a mailing list digest and keep *all* of the
digest in the reply :).

- C.

From annaraven at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 06:58:37 2006
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:58:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Great meeting tonight
Message-ID: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Leslie for providing munchies. Thanks to everyone who made
it a nice sociable meeting. The presentation rocked - if you didn't
see it, you'll want to catch the video when it comes up. Happy
holidays everyone!

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar!

From whitaker at google.com  Fri Dec 15 07:19:47 2006
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:19:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Great meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997a56990612142219q72089754xa22186708a82798b@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Leslie for providing munchies. Thanks to everyone who made
> it a nice sociable meeting. The presentation rocked - if you didn't
> see it, you'll want to catch the video when it comes up. Happy
> holidays everyone!
>

I was particularly happy I made it to this one too, and think jj did
an excellent
job in jumping in on short notice with such an interesting
presentation.  Thanks for
making this happen.

-- 
Russell Whitaker
Sysops Tools Team Lead
http://www.corp.google.com/~whitaker/
"From the point of view of any orthodoxy, myth might be defined as
'other people's
religion'... to which an equivalent definition of religion might be
'misunderstood mythology'."
- Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

From lhawthorn at google.com  Fri Dec 15 07:25:20 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:25:20 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Great meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <997a56990612142219q72089754xa22186708a82798b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990612142219q72089754xa22186708a82798b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612142225o310d54d6nc021604e228e7123@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/14/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks to Leslie for providing munchies. Thanks to everyone who made
> > it a nice sociable meeting. The presentation rocked - if you didn't
> > see it, you'll want to catch the video when it comes up. Happy
> > holidays everyone!
> >
>
> I was particularly happy I made it to this one too, and think jj did
> an excellent
> job in jumping in on short notice with such an interesting
> presentation.  Thanks for
> making this happen.
>
> --
> Russell Whitaker



It was nice to see all of you!

I'm doing a lot of traveling in the next quarter.  Is there a Googler who'd
like to take up the charge if I can't be there?

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Joyous Noel, Happy Kwanza
or a Fabulous Festivus to all!

LH


-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From whitaker at google.com  Fri Dec 15 07:28:33 2006
From: whitaker at google.com (Russell Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:28:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Great meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70612142225o310d54d6nc021604e228e7123@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990612142219q72089754xa22186708a82798b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612142225o310d54d6nc021604e228e7123@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <997a56990612142228x6cdc6d79sb6ac33e40ec92dc5@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/14/06, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
> > On 12/14/06, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks to Leslie for providing munchies. Thanks to everyone who made
> > > it a nice sociable meeting. The presentation rocked - if you didn't
> > > see it, you'll want to catch the video when it comes up. Happy
> > > holidays everyone!
> > >
> >
> > I was particularly happy I made it to this one too, and think jj did
> > an excellent
> > job in jumping in on short notice with such an interesting
> > presentation.  Thanks for
> > making this happen.
> >
> > --
> > Russell Whitaker
>
>
> It was nice to see all of you!
>
> I'm doing a lot of traveling in the next quarter.  Is there a Googler who'd
> like to take up the charge if I can't be there?

I'll do it: I come from a long, illustrious line of cat herders.
Let's talk offline at work.

-- 
Russell Whitaker
Sysops Tools Team Lead
http://www.corp.google.com/~whitaker/
"From the point of view of any orthodoxy, myth might be defined as
'other people's
religion'... to which an equivalent definition of religion might be
'misunderstood mythology'."
- Joseph Campbell, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

From lhawthorn at google.com  Fri Dec 15 07:33:10 2006
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:33:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Great meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <997a56990612142228x6cdc6d79sb6ac33e40ec92dc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb361a610612142158s11ac98fcg480b88dd04d2ad7@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990612142219q72089754xa22186708a82798b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4869cee70612142225o310d54d6nc021604e228e7123@mail.gmail.com>
	<997a56990612142228x6cdc6d79sb6ac33e40ec92dc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70612142233x22cabdb6ua0c2b017de468814@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Russell Whitaker <whitaker at google.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'll do it: I come from a long, illustrious line of cat herders.
> Let's talk offline at work.


Lovely.

Cheers,
Geek Herder in Residence<http://www.flickr.com/photos/41128780 at N00/296375336>




-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Open Source Program Office
Google Inc.
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From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 09:19:47 2006
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 00:19:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Would anyone like to review this book "Head First
	Object-Oriented Analysis and Design"?
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0612150019q4a3f312am49bc90060d34b5ba@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,


I have a review copy of Head First Object-Oriented Analysis and Design,
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfobjects/index.html>
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfobjects/index.html>
from O'REILLY and I'm looking for someone to read the book and write a
review for our website.

As always, you may keep the book.

Please email me off list

Thanks, and Happy Holidays to everyone


Tony
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From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 10:10:00 2006
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:10:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] NearbyNow event, Sat 12/16
Message-ID: <78b3a9580612150110xae7ced0lbf485e642af212bb@mail.gmail.com>

hi folks,

for those of you who couldn't hear me tonite after the meeting, the
prizes i said out loud was not a joke... we really are giving them
away!!  for more info, check out
http://nearbynow.com/eastridge_mobile_event.html ... all you need is
your cell phone!

all of our services are, of course, written in Python, not just the
mobile search. :-)

cheers,
-wesley

ps. i probably won't be there as someone's gotta monitor the servers. LOL

From ross at pcnt.com  Fri Dec 15 18:00:22 2006
From: ross at pcnt.com (Ross Parlette)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:00:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Reply Courtesy
In-Reply-To: <ffd485d70612142008v202c24bcyca613c51094470d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4772.1166135084.32030.baypiggies@python.org>
	<WorldClient-F200612141703.AA03170004@pcnt.com>
	<ca471dc20612141742y78525ae0s4fa9ebc7b85e1fec@mail.gmail.com>
	<ffd485d70612142008v202c24bcyca613c51094470d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F200612150900.AA00220000@pcnt.com>

Cory,

You got it. Sorry, digest is right.

The digest generator presumably has some size cue to generate a digest and 
start accumulating for a new one. When the initial message quoted the entire 
previous digest as a "tail," that generated a digest. Since each of the 
responders and re-re-responders failed to remove the long quote, each 
re-re-reply generated a digest too too too.

I'm replying to the list as I got 3 replies for clarification, one from GvR. 
I don't post here often and I'm sorry I was so opaque when I did.

When I reply to the digest, I don't see the digest quoted. Not sure why, but 
that's a good thing.

ross (not to be confused with Rossum)

-----Original Message-----
From: "Cory Omand" <coryomand at gmail.com>
To: Guido van Rossum
Cc: "Ross Parlette" <ross at pcnt.com>, baypiggies at python.org
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:08:33 -0800
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Reply Courtesy

> On 12/14/06,  Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Um, what do you mean by a summary?
> 
> I assumed that summary == digest.  I agree that it's not the best
> practice to reply on a mailing list digest and keep *all* of the
> digest in the reply :).
> 
> - C.
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URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20061215/72f0c815/attachment.htm 

From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Fri Dec 15 16:40:16 2006
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:40:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Would anyone like to review this book "Head First
 Object-Oriented Analysis and Design"?
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0612150019q4a3f312am49bc90060d34b5ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0612150019q4a3f312am49bc90060d34b5ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612150739050.10620@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>


> I have a review copy of Head First Object-Oriented Analysis and Design,
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfobjects/index.html>
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfobjects/index.html>
> from O'REILLY and I'm looking for someone to read the book and write a
> review for our website.

Just as a random aside: one of the co-authors is one of my professors here 
at WPI.  Small world.  *grin*

From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 19:40:50 2006
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:40:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] video - Time Management for System Administrators
Message-ID: <5538c19b0612151040g5092891avfca192c2372f972c@mail.gmail.com>

There is a 40 minute video by Tom Limoncelli, the author of "Time
Management for System Administrators", the book mentioned at the
BayPiggies meeting. He presents the basics that appear in the first
part of the book.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7278397109952382318
(The way cool rock music fades out after the first 30 seconds)

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 19:53:00 2006
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:53:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] slides and notes from last night's talk
Message-ID: <c41f67b90612151053y7f09ff06t8f3aeb5497d115f6@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

The slides and an overview of my talk are now online:

http://www.ironorchid.com/jjinux/articles/programmer_productivity/

-jj

-- 
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From mac at Wireless.Com  Fri Dec 15 20:08:57 2006
From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:08:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] off-list contact please
In-Reply-To: <5538c19b0612151040g5092891avfca192c2372f972c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5538c19b0612151040g5092891avfca192c2372f972c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0612151107390.1049@S.culver.net>

David Creemer, please contact me off-list.

Thanks -Mike

From kenobi at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 20:57:24 2006
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:57:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] slides and notes from last night's talk
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90612151053y7f09ff06t8f3aeb5497d115f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90612151053y7f09ff06t8f3aeb5497d115f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930612151157t5b2370ds915b05d139b9f599@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, I loved this presentation.  The key feature, however, was JJ's
narrative exposition.  The slides were window dressing, but helped
deliver the punchlines.  (I wish I had that sense of timing.)

Now... it really would be nice if somehow, JJ's narrative from the
video (which I admit I haven't seen yet), could be added over the
slides as a QuickTime or Flash on-line tutorial.

--Rick Kwan

On 12/15/06, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> The slides and an overview of my talk are now online:
>
> http://www.ironorchid.com/jjinux/articles/programmer_productivity/
>
> -jj
>
> --
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>

From lavendula6654 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 15 21:10:49 2006
From: lavendula6654 at yahoo.com (Elaine)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python course starting in January '07
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0611152131k75220c3ex9a0fbcc406a0e20e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <985624.38140.qm@web31713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you would like to learn Python, Foothill College is
offering a course starting Wednesday evening, 10
January 2007, at the Middlefield campus on the corner
of San Antonio and Middlefield Road in south Palo
Alto. Note that this location is only 1.5 miles from
Google in Mountain View. The course is designed for
students who are already familiar with some type of
programming. Here is the course description:

CIS 68K  "INTRODUCTION TO PYTHON PROGRAMMING"  5 Units
This course will introduce students to the Python
language and environment. Python is a portable,
interpreted, object-oriented programming language that
is often compared to Perl, Java, Scheme and Tcl. The
language has an elegant syntax, dynamic typing, and a
small number of powerful, high-level data types. It
also has modules, classes, and exceptions. The modules
provide interfaces to many system calls and libraries,
as well as to various windowing systems(X11, Motif,
Tk, Mac, MFC). New built-in modules are easily written
in C or C++. Such extension modules can define new
functions and variables as well as new object types.
Four hours lecture, four hours terminal time.
Advisory: CIS 15A or 27A, and CIS 68A.
2182 CIS -068K-01 LEC6:00PM- 9:50W HAIGHT  MC I2   
CIS -

If you would like to sign up for the class, please
register beforehand by going to:
http://www.foothill.fhda.edu/reg/index.php

If you have questions, you can contact the instructor
at:
haightElaine at foothill.edu


__________________________________________________
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From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 22 00:41:17 2006
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:41:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a REFERRAL for a provider/host that hosts
	Mercurial version control
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0612211541k3a01c25au64e3dc18e8425b16@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,


If anyone here uses or has used a host which hosts or allows the use of
Mercurial http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/
version control, please email me off list. I'm looking for REFERRALS, not
google references.

Thanks


Happy Holidays!

Tony Cappellini
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