[Baypiggies] Is plone fo me?

[Steve Hindle]

> that Zope really isn't all that bad.  But from what I've seen so far of
> Plone, by skimming the documentation and attempting to play with it, I
> am starting to get the impression that Plone really is as monolithic as
> I originally thought Zope would be.  I'm hoping to hear otherwise.
>
'Otherwise'
Plone is based on a 'product' (plugins) system.  This includes a lot
of the 'core' functionality.  I believe what you are considering
'monolithic' is probably more accurately labeled 'huge' - as in Plone
exposes a huge amount of API functionality, _should you choose to use
it_.   Granted, there is a LOT of stuff there - but you can do really
incredible stuff with just some of the basic facilities.

> What I want to do:
>
> 1. Get complete control of the main look and feel.  I have implemented a
> Zope page template exactly as I want it.  The template is a finely tuned
> table with perfectly aligned graphics.  Plone seems to want to let me
> plug in bits and pieces to customize aspect of the look, but I need to
> actually control the arrangement of the entire page.  In fact, I don't
> think the final result will look much like a Plone page at all.
>
This can be accomplished by 'customizing' (overriding) the 'main
template'.  This is the default template used to 'wrap' all content in
your site.  Change this one template - and viola  - your done.  Of
course, now you've butchered your plone, hard coded your styling, and
generally made your life more difficult.   If you expend a little more
effort and also change the CSS file, you'll be in better shape.  Then
again, your design might change over time - by spending a little time
learning about Plone features such as portlets - you'll make your life
even easier.  Plone gives you these options - you can start out by
just 'testing the waters' and get something going quickly, and you can
gradually learn more about it for a huge payoff in productivity.

BTW - the link you provided looks like a pretty typical Plone site.
Rather then supply a totally stock template, I would suggest simply
going into the web interface, and turning off 'topnav' - then add the
'nav portlet' to your 'left_column' - this takes about 2 minutes and
is done totally thru the web _without_ editing code.  If your feeling
more ambitious, you could change the CSS file to render 'top nav' (an
unordered list) as your 'left nav'.  I have no idea how hard that
would be as my CSS-Fu ain't all that.  But by styling the list as
'display:block' you should be able to change the horizontal list into
a vertical list.  Again, this can all be done thru the web with _zero_
code changes.

So that takes care of the nav - you would want to edit the 'header'
page template to include your caligraphy graphics.  Again, you could
embed them with img tags, or do some fancy CSS image replacement -
whichever you prefer.

To be honest, Donna and I do these sorts of sites for clients all the
time - two and three column, left nav, 'brochureware' sites a stable
in this biz....  Plone handles them quite easily.  For instance, if
memory serves me - Donna and I did this:
http://www.esginc.com without major surgery to the main template
(scrollers are 'portlets', IIRC)


> 2. Allow users to add content by editing plain text.  The user should be
> able to select whether the page is a calendar event, a main menu page,
> etc, and automatically add a link to the appropriate list.  (this item
> is why I would look at Plone at all).  I will need to implement my own
> page templates with custom scripting to display certain lists.
>
'Stock' Plone comes with the 'kupu' editor - it allows your users to
edit documents in plain text with a WYSIWYG interface, or STX, or
HTML.  Content types such a events, documents, etc. are added via a
drop down list on the 'parent' folder.  Portlets are available for
generating all sorts of dynamic lists.  In addition, Plone supports
'smart folders' - which are sort of like 'persistent queries'.  You
create a smart folder and give it a set of 'search criteria' - it then
automatically updates itself as new content is added.  This makes it
trivial to add dynamic lists different things - like 'show me all
documents older then 2 days written by steve'.  These are a _really_
neat feature.

> 3. I want to implement my own custom regular expression substitutions on
> the structured text content.
*Sigh* I don't think plone can do this one from the browser.  You
might need to hack a python script or two for this.  Still - two outta
three (so far) from right inside your browser with no code hacks is
pretty good :-)


> Plone looks like it has more than enough features for me.  I just want
> to start with a clean empty page, not the ridiculously excessive swiss
> army knife of the standard default page.
>
Thats a little harsh - especially since you've admitted you haven't
looked into it yet.  that 'ridiculously excessive' default template
allows a _lot_ of cool stuff to be implemented in a cross-browser,
standards compliant way.  Not the least of which is its ability to
stay out of your way, while still providing you 'drop-in' component
support with enough CSS hooks to re-arrange the content like a jigsaw
puzzle :-)  Give it a chance - It'll grow on you.

So, In my biased opinion - Plone would probably do quite well for you :-)
It has its fair share of quirks, but if you already know Zope and you
Already know Python - I'd at least play with it a little.  If you have
to do any sort of web work on a regular basis, it can be time very
well spent.

Steve