[Baypiggies] New PyOP List - wasRe: [vote] name change

Shannon -jj Behrens jjinux at gmail.com
Thu Feb 8 23:46:07 CET 2007

On 2/8/07, Marilyn Davis <marilyn at deliberate.com> wrote:
> JJ said:
> >
> > Again, don't mistake my ignorance for malice.  I posed that poll
> I know.  I know you are not malicious.  But please nullify that mis-poll as a mistake.

It's true that I mistook what you, a member of the list, were
interested in.  Still, the poll served to tell me what the readership
thought.  It answered my question.  What's to nullify about that?

> We already took that poll in a carefully legitimate way and the previous poll should be respected: 35% think the name is bad enough to warrant changing.  A group of marketeers would take that number very seriously.  But we are technical people.

Fair enough.  Unfortunately, I can't violate the will of the 65% majority.

> The up-side is that the incident gave me the opportunity to teach something about democracy, which is my #1 calling:  http://www.deliberate.com
> Teaching Python, and whatever other little gigs I get, support the democracy work.
> Please understand and not take offense, that I can't, voluntarily, be subject to a dictator, no matter how benevolent, charming and good.

Do you also refuse to use Linux?  I purposely took the term
"benevolent dictator" from Linus's original usage.  In fact, while it
may be called a benevolent dictatorship, at its heart, this is really
a meritocracy.  Those who give the most make the most decisions.

> So I started another email list/group: PyOP "Python on the Peninsula".

Ok.  I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.  Before you
leave, I'd like to say thank you for all your contributions.

> As soon as you get the announce list happening, I'll be leaving Baypiggies, although I do expect my participation in the meetings to grow when I'm not weighed down by the name, "piggies".
> This happened:
> ----- On Tuesday, February 6, 2007 brad at python.org wrote:
> > At 12:25 PM -0800 2/6/07, Marilyn Davis wrote:
> >
> >>  Hello Python.org Postmasters,
> >>
> >>  Would you please make a pyop at python.org email list?
> >
> > Done.
> >
> >>  It will be a democratically-administrated email list for �*�Python on
> >>  the Peninsula�*� -- the SF Bay Peninsula.
> >
> > Noted in the short description of the list.
> >
> >>  Baypiggies is the  whole SF Bay area, and I hope/expect the list to
> >>  be populated with people who attend the live meetings.  Everyone is
> >>  welcome, of course.  But to earn voting rights, you must have
> >>  attended one meeting in the last 3 months, or 2 meetings in the last year.
> >>
> >>  I hope a few democratic rules of order are ok in a python.org list.
> >
> > So far as I know, so long as the rules don't discriminate with
> > regards to race, religion, creed, gender, sexual preferences, etc...
> > you should be able to run your list pretty much however you want.
> >
> >>  I'll be the first admin, but I hope there is enough enthusiasm that
> >>  someone else will want to be the admin in a year.
> >
> > Fair enough.
> >
> > I've pre-filled in a few things on the list, including an
> > introductory description which has a few standard list policies
> > regarding the archives, etc....  If you want to change these, that's
> [rest clipped]
> I have a big deadline on Monday so I don't have much time for fiddling with this right now but I'll try to get it all set next week with some starting rules.
> So that you understand my action I'll explain that, as a democracy activist, in league with Zapatistas and other democracy activists. I see that the threatening demise of the planet is the war between corporate-governmental-military monster and democracy/people: a war between the dominant/submissant model and the cooperative model. Being part of this struggle, I feel I am betraying the cause and the earth if I willingly participate where democratic forms are disrespected ... and then there's the name thing.

Wow.  Ok.  I guess we each have our causes.  Personally, mine is open
source, and it drives me crazy to ever have to use anything closed
source.  (Now is a chance for Alex Martelli to take a quick jab at my
presentation software debacle at the last meeting ;)

> When meeting organizers are looking for help or speakers, if they raise their requests to the new announce list, I'll respond if I can, but I will be participating as a member of PyOP.
> For starters I will not feed the announce list into the PyOP list so that, if anyone wants to belong to both lists, there will not be duplicates.  And since this baypiggies list does not allow cross-posting, there will not be any perceived problems from a cross-post with this list. Cross-posts on the PyOP list are ok with me as long as the cross-poster takes responsibility to keep the thread making sense.  But if there are other members who feel differently, a decision reached by democratic process will override any defaults I set up.
> I want to point out that when Guido says he's Python's benevolent dictator, it's a bit silly because Python is just a computer language. No matter how dynamic, intelligent and fun Python is, it is not a being with a mind of her own, dignity, or a sense of responsibilty.  Guido invented Python and holds the original vision and the responsibility to protect it from turning into a committee-led mish-mash.  In reality, he is "protector" of the language.  Hard job.
> But, as a person, voluntarily in community with other people, it is important to me that I belong to a committee-led mish-mash.
> I hope a few people join me, because I do want to be in ecommunity with other Python-lovers.
> See you tonight,
> Marilyn

Best Regards,


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