[Baypiggies] New PyOP List - wasRe: [vote] name change

Marilyn Davis marilyn at deliberate.com
Tue Feb 27 20:47:39 CET 2007

----- On Thursday, February 8, 2007 jjinux at gmail.com wrote:

> On 2/8/07, Marilyn Davis  wrote:
>> JJ said:
>> >
>> > Again, don't mistake my ignorance for malice.  I posed that poll
>> I know.  I know you are not malicious.  But please nullify that mis-poll as
> a mistake.
> It's true that I mistook what you, a member of the list, were
> interested in.  Still, the poll served to tell me what the readership
> thought.  It answered my question.  What's to nullify about that?
>> We already took that poll in a carefully legitimate way and the previous
> poll should be respected: 35% think the name is bad enough to warrant
> changing.  A group of marketeers would take that number very seriously.  But
> we are technical people.
> Fair enough.  Unfortunately, I can't violate the will of the 65% majority.

Of course not.  But the 65% might reconsider the wisdom of sticking to a name that 35% find unpleasant.  We'll never know how many more find it too uncomfortable to join.

>> The up-side is that the incident gave me the opportunity to teach something
> about democracy, which is my #1 calling:  http://www.deliberate.com
>> Teaching Python, and whatever other little gigs I get, support the democracy
> work.
>> Please understand and not take offense, that I can't, voluntarily, be
> subject to a dictator, no matter how benevolent, charming and good.
> Do you also refuse to use Linux?  I purposely took the term
> "benevolent dictator" from Linus's original usage.  In fact, while it
> may be called a benevolent dictatorship, at its heart, this is really
> a meritocracy.  Those who give the most make the most decisions.

I use and advocate the "GNU System", which includes Linus' kernel.  The motto is "GNU's Not Unix! - Free Software, Free Society".  I really get the connection and know it will become more apparent to everyone as the future unfolds.

>> So I started another email list/group: PyOP "Python on the Peninsula".
> Ok.  I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.  Before you
> leave, I'd like to say thank you for all your contributions.
>> As soon as you get the announce list happening, I'll be leaving Baypiggies,
> although I do expect my participation in the meetings to grow when I'm not
> weighed down by the name, "piggies".
>> This happened:
>> ----- On Tuesday, February 6, 2007 brad at python.org wrote:
>> > At 12:25 PM -0800 2/6/07, Marilyn Davis wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Hello Python.org Postmasters,
>> >>
>> >>  Would you please make a pyop at python.org email list?
>> >
>> > Done.
>> >
>> >>  It will be a democratically-administrated email list for �*�Python on
>> >>  the Peninsula�*� -- the SF Bay Peninsula.
>> >
>> > Noted in the short description of the list.
>> >
>> >>  Baypiggies is the  whole SF Bay area, and I hope/expect the list to
>> >>  be populated with people who attend the live meetings.  Everyone is
>> >>  welcome, of course.  But to earn voting rights, you must have
>> >>  attended one meeting in the last 3 months, or 2 meetings in the last year.
>> >>
>> >>  I hope a few democratic rules of order are ok in a python.org list.
>> >
>> > So far as I know, so long as the rules don't discriminate with
>> > regards to race, religion, creed, gender, sexual preferences, etc...
>> > you should be able to run your list pretty much however you want.
>> >
>> >>  I'll be the first admin, but I hope there is enough enthusiasm that
>> >>  someone else will want to be the admin in a year.
>> >
>> > Fair enough.
>> >
>> > I've pre-filled in a few things on the list, including an
>> > introductory description which has a few standard list policies
>> > regarding the archives, etc....  If you want to change these, that's
>> [rest clipped]
>> I have a big deadline on Monday so I don't have much time for fiddling with
> this right now but I'll try to get it all set next week with some starting
> rules.
>> So that you understand my action I'll explain that, as a democracy activist,
> in league with Zapatistas and other democracy activists. I see that the
> threatening demise of the planet is the war between
> corporate-governmental-military monster and democracy/people: a war between
> the dominant/submissant model and the cooperative model. Being part of this
> struggle, I feel I am betraying the cause and the earth if I willingly
> participate where democratic forms are disrespected ... and then there's the
> name thing.
> Wow.  Ok.  I guess we each have our causes.  Personally, mine is open
> source, and it drives me crazy to ever have to use anything closed
> source. 

Open source and democracy are the same cause.  Or, they are subclassed from the same cause: dominant/submissant vs cooperative.

Indeed, racism, sexism, imperialism, ... all the ism's that tear us apart are that dominant/submissant model.

[much deleted]

JJ, it is a pleasure to discuss with you.

Always your fan,


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