[Baypiggies] Fwd: Request to mailing list Baypiggies rejected

Danny Yoo dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu
Wed Jan 10 23:42:13 CET 2007

>>> The problem -- as I already said -- is that cross-posting between 
>>> mailing lists means that the people who reply to your messages will 
>>> get caught by the requirement to be a list subscriber in order for 
>>> their messages to be seen.  (This requirement courtesy of spam.)
> That's the problem of the participants, not the moderator.

Hi Marilyn,

Wait, wait.  There's a basic misunderstanding of what Aahz is saying. 
I've been a list admin before, so let me try explaining it and see if I 
can get it right.  *grin*

Any message that gets into baypiggies is first checked to see if the 
sender is a subscriber on baypiggies.  This is done to prevent spammers 
from hitting the list, since they'll often not take the effort to 
subscribe.  If they're a subscriber, the message goes through.  That's how 
we're having this conversation now.

But any message that's from someone outside the subscriber list is placed 
on a "moderation queue" for the list administrator to pick up.  The 
list-admin has an interface for explicitely allowing messages into the 
list or not, which the admin may visit at their convenience.

The point is: even if the message is legitimate, it'll stay in the queue 
because its origin is from someone who is not subscribed to the list: 
computers aren't smart enough to figure out what is and isn't relevant. 
So there is a cost incurred when crossposting happens: participants on 
both lists are typically not subscribed on both lists, so the moderation 
queue on both lists can suddenly get pretty large.  Furthermore, this 
requires administrators on both lists to get much more involved.

So it is a moderator problem, from a purely technical perspective.  If you 
want to see what happens without this moderation system in place, take a 
look at the Jython-announce mailing list:


Notice how much spam has ruined the usefulness of it.  I don't want to see 
the same thing happen anywhere else, because it's too sad.  And good list 
moderation does take work.  Talk with any other list moderator, and 
they'll share the same sentiments: it's a thankless, mostly invisible job, 
but an important one to keep the mailing list useful.

I sorta missed the original thread of this conversation; it sounded like 
someone wanted to bring up a security session to a Baypiggies meeting? 
That sounds great!

So... what's the problem?  Not crossposting should be easy: just start two 
separate, independent threads, one proposing hosting a session on 
Baypiggies, and another one mentioning the possible venue on the 
security-specific mailing list.  They are related, but different subjects.

The threads can refer to the other by name, so that interested 
participants can join.  But this is exactly the kind of situation where 
crossposting will cause problems for the moderator if we're not careful.

Best of wishes!

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