[Baypiggies] [vote] name change

Marilyn Davis marilyn at deliberate.com
Wed Jan 31 23:27:30 CET 2007

----- On Wednesday, January 31, 2007 cvanarsdall at mvista.com wrote:

> Marilyn Davis wrote:
>> ----- On Tuesday, January 30, 2007 cvanarsdall at mvista.com wrote:
>> [snipdizzle...]
>> I think your logic is backwards Carl:  what we call ourselves is much more
> important than what others call us.  It has much more power for shaping who
> we are and how we behave.
> I think I need a counter example as to how BayPiggies vs some other name
> will attract python enthusiasts differently.  I know that when I was

I guess I haven't made myself understood.

I spent some years in a spiritual school and was taught to be very careful about the labels I take on.  If, when I make a mistake, I call myself "stupid", it will cause me to be more stupid.  If, instead, I say "oops, I made a mistake", it will have no negative effect on my future performance.

If I call myself "piggy" I'll take on the negative characteristics that I associate with the word.  

I remember taking a class about defending yourself against your super-ego.  Your super-ego is that little voice that calls you names, usually the same names and same tone of voice as your parents.  It's a very destructive little voice for many people.

When I first brought up this subject, which I understand was not the first time it was brought up, I was flamed quite mercilessly.  If I was to accept for myself the label "piggy", I'd be inclined to flame back.  Instead, I live in rejection of the name, which limits my participation and causes me to think of the group as "them" more than "us".

So, my point about the name is not about attracting members, or even professional appearances.  It is about my own being, and the beings of the members of the group with whom I want to be friends and associates.

> looking for a python group here in the bay, I googled it, found it, I
> thought BayPiggies was a bit silly, but it didn't deter me in the
> slightest.  I knew what I want, and being that this was the only group
> in town, there it was.  I would think that a name that states "it is
> what it is" would be most appropriate (Bay Area Python Interest Group)
> which is what BayPiggies is, I just assumed it was shorted to
> BayPiggies.  So in my head (granted, this could come down to a simple
> philosophy, so we can agree to disagree too), it seems absolutely
> appropriate.

I agree to disagree.  That's how I'm able to cope with being in a group that has a name I can't say without making a face.

> I think what's more important is the content of the group.  If the

I maintain that the label and the content are related.  Well, I shouldn't say 'I', but that psychologists know that labels are hugely responsible for our behaviors.  I know that, in general, technical people aren't necessarily on board with what psychologists tell us, but I am.  And, I enjoy talking about it.

> content is nothing short of amazing, then BayPiggies, BayLemurs, or
> "Guys who like to hang out at google cause they are just that cool"
> would suffice.  What attracts me to this group are presentations I find
> useful as well as insight into the Bay Area Python community.  If
> nothing else, the member who suggested "time management for system
> administrators" at the meet and greet, he changed my life.  Its those
> suggestions, new ideas, that keep me coming back.  A way to better
> myself and contribute to the betterment of the community in ways that I
> find I am able.

Yes, there are some great meetings.  I just wonder what it could be if we had a non-derogatory name.  We will probably never know.

>> There are lots of great lists for disucssing Python itself.  So people who
> are looking for that should try the others.  My favorite is the tutor list.
> The global lists have nothing else to do, except discuss Python.
> Yep, plenty of lists, I'm on some of them.  They don't come with the
> family atmosphere that this one comes with, and that's why I like it
> over say, the general python list where a single mistake will result in
> 15 flames from angry python developers all over the world.  I think this
> list is useful for discussing python within the context of the bay area
> in addition to connecting with other python developers.  As this place
> has a different culture all its own and its nice to approach things from
> this perspective.
>> This one is about knowing and meeting other Python enthusiasts.  It is
> special because it is connected to our geography.  It is about people and
> real connections.
> Yep, I agree.  Maybe there's a miscommunication somewhere.  But I don't
> think that this list should be limited to meet and greet.  It should be

Me either!  I like it all.  I was just defending the meta-discussions and the discussions about ourselves.

> a place where we can communicate technically as well, but within the
> context of the bay area and the industry that we are building here.

Yes, nice expression.

>> So it makes sense to me that admin and meta discussions would dominate.
> And I am fine with that too.  But I dont' think there needs to be three
> separate mailing lists.  There really isn't *that* much going on here
> and those that *really* don't want to deal with those discussions could
> pretty easily setup some filters if we have a simple process for
> differentiating emails based on simple subject headers.  There are times
> where I may or may not be interested in those, but coming into the
> group, I don't necessarily want to think about three different lists.
> Sorry if my tone sounds harsh or something, people tell me I come off
> that way, but I'm just participating in the discussion, I promise
> there's no ill will here, I love you guys :)

You don't sound harsh at all to me, Carl.  And I hope I don't sound harsh either.  Thanks for the discussion.


> -carl
> --
> Carl J. Van Arsdall
> cvanarsdall at mvista.com
> Build and Release
> MontaVista Software
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