From rolf at rolfnelson.com  Tue Dec  1 00:34:19 2009
From: rolf at rolfnelson.com (Rolf Nelson)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:34:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for fellow pydevs to collaborate on small
	Google Wave apps (CRM)
Message-ID: <91f02e900911301534s7626c943q288b19dc2f6a2e8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for fellow Python developers to partner with on one or more
small Google Wave applications in the area of Customer Relationship
Management. If you might be interested, shoot me an email and we can talk
more.

Thanks,

-Rolf
www.rolfnelson.com
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From rgopiindian86 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 10:15:31 2009
From: rgopiindian86 at gmail.com (R Gopinath)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:45:31 +0530
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for fellow pydevs to collaborate on small
	Google Wave apps (CRM)
In-Reply-To: <91f02e900911301534s7626c943q288b19dc2f6a2e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91f02e900911301534s7626c943q288b19dc2f6a2e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7459cc990912010115p61235c95ua497bf9ad0c8f45@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Rolf,
I am very much interested in this opportunity. How can i approach you
further regarding this project.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Rolf Nelson <rolf at rolfnelson.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for fellow Python developers to partner with on one or more
> small Google Wave applications in the area of Customer Relationship
> Management. If you might be interested, shoot me an email and we can talk
> more.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Rolf
> www.rolfnelson.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Cheers,
R.Gopinath,
http://neuronring.com
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From niallo at unworkable.org  Tue Dec  1 23:25:05 2009
From: niallo at unworkable.org (Niall O'Higgins)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:25:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyWebSF #6: 6pm, Dec 8th 2009 @ SFPL,
	"Python Concurrency"
Message-ID: <20091201222505.GA5856@unworkable.org>

Hi folks,

PyWebSF is a Python meet-up with a strong focus on Web technology. From
frameworks like WSGI/Pylons/TurboGears/Django to libraries like httplib2
to using emerging Web technologies like Amazon's AWS and Freebase - its
all covered.

The emphasis is on practical, hands-on lectures and discussion. Meetings
start with one or two 30-40 minute presentations and end with informal
discussion.  Hackathon-style collaboration and project demos are
encouraged.

Who/What
--------

* Shannon -jj Behrens - "Concurrency in Python"
  http://www.pywebsf.org/2009/12/01/shannon-jj-behrens-concurrency-in-python/

When
----

6PM, Tuesday 08 December 2009.
Please try to arrive on time to avoid disappointment.  We have space
for around 10-20 people.

Where
-----

Stong conference room, 1st floor, SF Main Public Library.
Map: http://tinyurl.com/pywebsfmap

The library is easily accessible via both BART and Muni at the Civic
Center station.  The library closes at 8pm so we will continue the
discussion over food/drinks at Frjtz Fries [http://www.frjtzfries.com].

More info
---------

Subscribe to our Google Calendar at http://tinyurl.com/pywebcal
Follow Py Web SF on Twitter at http://twitter.com/pywebsf

Slides, links, and more at http://pywebsf.org/

Thanks!

-- 
Niall O'Higgins
PyWebSF
http://pywebsf.org
http://niallohiggins.com
http://twitter.com/niallohiggins

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  3 06:28:41 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:28:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: UG News: 45% off Ebook Purchases from O'Reilly
In-Reply-To: <1259798412.1683.0.969298@post.oreilly.com>
References: <1259798412.1683.0.969298@post.oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912022128t83d78b9pb61dbe02eefcc2a@mail.gmail.com>

Happy Holidays from O'Reilly!

 If you would like to view this information in your browser, click
here<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zbvvc1o22k8phucvr5cbpl7h9tflk190vdnup138>
.
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 Forward
this announcement<http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z4mbqti5bh23b46q47hagpqmpdgi8ajnam2da5ro>

Hi,

Can you pass along the following limited time discount to your members?

Special offer for O'Reilly User Group program members: Along with your 35%
discount off print books, you can now get *45% off all ebooks* you purchase
direct from oreilly.com for a limited time.

When you buy an O'Reilly ebook you get lifetime access to the book, and
whenever possible we make it available to you in four, DRM-free file
formats--PDF, .epub, Kindle-compatible .mobi, and Android ebook--that you
can use on the devices of your choice. Our ebook files are fully searchable,
and you can cut-and-paste and print them. We also alert you when we've
updated the files with corrections and additions.

Just use code DSUG when ordering online at
www.oreilly.com/store<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zbspbq85bcb52b9fbm3ld1f10smpo4c0qajq62j8>

Read more about our ebook formats and the ways to use them here:
http://oreilly.com/ebooks<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zm1rlsgq5v37o2l1iv0btnpos19323g9p7djd4eo>



   [image: Spreading the knowledge of
innovators]<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z2lsedkb4hff3t2bgfv0uoilkms4onv7q3s5h510>[image:
oreilly.com]<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zbgi2bs9p4s8s4aol5h42q23hcr466rbtj2remb0>
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From jim at well.com  Fri Dec  4 22:46:19 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:46:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for newbie nuggets
Message-ID: <1259963179.6517.22.camel@jim-laptop>


   step right up, present your newbie nugget, spot open 
for our december meeting (monday 20091214) and all of 
2010. 
   a newbie nugget is a short (five to ten minute or so) 
explanation of some python coding technique or feature 
that is "pythonic" and likely not to be familiar to 
those who've used other programming languages and are 
new to python. topics might include commenting conventions, 
doc testing, atomic data types, libraries (e.g. arrays, 
typically available in other languages, but not in the 
python language), intro to unit testing.... 




From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Dec  5 22:56:32 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:56:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Help with ctypes
Message-ID: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>

I'm trying to learn how to write my own C-libraries and wrap with  
Python. My first stab at this was with ctypes - it looked cleaner for  
what I wanted to do. I admit, however, I don't understand the error  
that I seem to be getting on several tested platforms.

(Note: Here's the basic documentation: http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html)


Here is my very powerful and sophisticated C-library :)  (demo.c):

int demo() {
     return 5;
}

Compile to library (I imagine this is where I am missing a step):
gjarvis at boxee:~$ gcc -c demo.c


And, now I have a spanking good demo.o file:

gjarvis at boxee:~$ file demo.o
demo.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not  
stripped



Now, when trying to access with ctypes, I keep seeing the message  
"Only ET_DYN and ET_EXEC can be loaded" -- I'm not able to find any  
web pages or docs to point me in the right direction. Is there  
anything that I'm missing? Do I need to include <Python.h> if it's  
just a one-way-wrap like this? Any direction to documentation -- or a  
very small code snippet to get me started is all I think I'll need:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import ctypes
 >>> demo = ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('/home/gjarvis/demo.o')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ctypes/__init__.py", line 431, in  
LoadLibrary
     return self._dlltype(name)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ctypes/__init__.py", line 353, in __init__
     self._handle = _dlopen(self._name, mode)
OSError: /home/gjarvis/demo.o: only ET_DYN and ET_EXEC can be loaded


Thanks in Advance,



Glen
--
http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis

I'm Riding to End AIDS

 From June 6 - June12, 2010, I'm bicycling in AIDS/LifeCycle. It's a 7- 
day, 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles to make a  
world of difference in the lives of people living with HIV and AIDS.

Please support me and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation by making a  
donation.

Visit: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis

We'll keep riding until AIDS and HIV are a thing of the past.

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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Dec  5 23:18:21 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:18:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Help with ctypes
In-Reply-To: <1f7713e30912051410y776a0798l76db9eee79b6e5b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>
	<1f7713e30912051410y776a0798l76db9eee79b6e5b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B0E0DC2-2A5D-4CFB-A11E-4A84DA84E99F@glenjarvis.com>

Thanks for the help Jeremy and Michael!

Cheers,


Glen

> ET_DYN means it looking for a dynamic (shared) library, not an  
> object file.
>
> Try
>
> gcc --shared -o demo.so demo.c
>
> Then use ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('demo.so').  This works for me.
>
>   - Jeremy
>
Hi Glen,

You need to turn it into a shared library with the -shared and -fPIC
compiler options. Take a look at:
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html.
Particularly section 3.4

--mike


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From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Sat Dec  5 23:33:00 2009
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 23:33:00 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Help with ctypes
In-Reply-To: <5B0E0DC2-2A5D-4CFB-A11E-4A84DA84E99F@glenjarvis.com>
References: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>
	<1f7713e30912051410y776a0798l76db9eee79b6e5b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B0E0DC2-2A5D-4CFB-A11E-4A84DA84E99F@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <09AEC78F-6EE6-4370-AD20-3B5AF612BC78@dalkescientific.com>

On Dec 5, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> Thanks for the help Jeremy and Michael!
   ...
> You need to turn it into a shared library with the -shared and -fPIC
> compiler options. Take a look at:
> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html.
> Particularly section 3.4
> 
> --mike

You can also use Python's setup.py to build it for you. See for example
  http://dalkescientific.com/writings/NBN/ctypes.html

where I build a .so file which happens to have no Python code in it.

The avantage being that someone else has worried about getting the right compiler flags.

				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From keith at dartworks.biz  Sun Dec  6 04:42:24 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:42:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Help with ctypes
In-Reply-To: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>
References: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <20091205194224.4595db2a@dartworks.biz>

=== On Sat, 12/05, Glen Jarvis wrote: ===
> I'm trying to learn how to write my own C-libraries and wrap with
> Python. 
===

I would recommend using Pyrex for that. It handles the boilerplate for
you also. 

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/



-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From wescpy at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 20:18:06 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:18:06 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Help with ctypes
In-Reply-To: <20091205194224.4595db2a@dartworks.biz>
References: <50197722-5E30-4C3A-8683-A11BB08F0E9A@glenjarvis.com>
	<20091205194224.4595db2a@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580912061118k66e822b9q9720f060fa571ded@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> === On Sat, 12/05, Glen Jarvis wrote: ===
>> I'm trying to learn how to write my own C-libraries and wrap with
>> Python.
>
> I would recommend using Pyrex for that. It handles the boilerplate for
> you also.
>
> http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/


also consider Cython, the next generation of Pyrex-like compilers:
http://cython.org

for convenience, many oldtimers who may be familar Pyrex but haven't
heard much about Cython can read about the diffs here:

http://wiki.cython.org/DifferencesFromPyrex

cheers,
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sun Dec  6 23:28:44 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:28:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] If we had time... Face memory game app
Message-ID: <C2A73423-702B-40B6-9887-9E36826E45D2@glenjarvis.com>

Wouldn't it be incredibly cool if we had a "face memory app" similar  
to this one:

http://addoncon.com/

Notice how the little memory game has faces -- what a fun way to match  
names and faces. I certainly don't have the time  - but it was a cool  
enough idea I wanted to share.

We could even throw in a few faces like Eric Idle's :)


Warmest Regards,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Dec  8 16:44:32 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 07:44:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wanted: Python/Linux sysadmin
Message-ID: <20091208154432.GA6121@panix.com>

My company is still having difficulty finding good candidates for our
opening, so I'm trying again:

We have a product currently shipping for Mac/Windows and we're looking
for someone with Python and Linux sysadmin experience to help us port it
to Linux.  I've been working here for more than four months and I really
like the place.  The product does bidirectional synch between local
storage and remote storage.

We are less interested in exact qualifications than a good attitude and
competence with both Python and Linux.  We want someone who can own their
part of the project, requiring little oversigh and direction.  Other
experience that would be helpful:

* Web development
* Samba
* Database
* Java

For more info about the company:

http://www.egnyte.com/

To apply, please use jobs at egnyte.com; feel free to ask me questions.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  

From max at theslimmers.net  Tue Dec  8 21:15:14 2009
From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:15:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] HTTPS - HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm
Message-ID: <bc5154610912081215g4612856fw84848b13cbd3e379@mail.gmail.com>

1) I have an application that accesses a web site via HTTPS using a
certificate. The primary url returns a 302 redirect, urllib2 then goes to
this address and gets a 401, which if the passwordMgr has be setup properly
then connects.

I have been able to determine a set of uri's that if fed to the
passwordMgr.add_password() make things work. The problem is that depending
on where the application is run from the redirect may be to different url's.
I would like to dynamically catch the redirect and then format
add_password() properly to addthis uri and the user/password information
rather than having to determine all possible uri's and load passwordMgr at
init time.
If I overload the redirect handler when it gets there I don't have access to
the passwordMgr.  Following is a snipit of the code:

                passwordMgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
             #### Here I am setting passwordMgr up with all known uri's, but
if I get redirected to some other address It no longer works  ####
 for uri in ('payex.adp.com','agateway.adp.com','bgateway.adp.com','.adp.com
'):
 passwordMgr.add_password(None, uri, usr, pwd)
 basicAuthHndlr = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(passwordMgr)
 cookies = cookielib.CookieJar()
cookieHndlr = urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cookies)

self.opener = urllib2.build_opener(MultipartPostHandler,
HTTPSClientAuthHandler(httpDebug),basicAuthHndlr,cookieHndlr,urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler())

I then call:
               self.opener(request)

2) I have a second problem, for which I have created an ugly workaround,
Namely I need a way to give the HTTPSConnection.__ini__() a reference to the
cert file. The HTTPSClientAuthHandler do_open method takes a ref to the
HTTPSClientAuthConnection not an instance, so I overloaded this class and
get the cert_file via a previously set global ref.  I would like a better
way to feed the cert file.  Here is the code I am using:

class HTTPSClientAuthConnection(httplib.HTTPSConnection):
def __init__(self, host, timeout=socket._GLOBAL_DEFAULT_TIMEOUT):
# nb cert_file is global and set in UrllibPX
httplib.HTTPSConnection.__init__(self, host, cert_file=cert_file)

doseq = 1
class HTTPSClientAuthHandler(urllib2.HTTPSHandler):
 def https_open(self, req):
for tries in range(3):
try:
ret = self.do_open(HTTPSClientAuthConnection, req)
return ret
except URLError:
log = logging.getLogger()
log.warn("problem connecting")
raise


thanks,

Max Slimmer
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From nigel.stolting at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 01:46:44 2009
From: nigel.stolting at gmail.com (Nigel Stolting)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:46:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
Message-ID: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I?m looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
using a Python based SSH client.

The project  I?m working requires various commands to be sent to a
remote server (running Linux) to get various state, including ?df ?a?,
?ps ?a? and ?top?.

I?m trying to stay away from pexpect, as I?ve been stung in the past
dealing with various timing issues. In addition, it?s not possible to
run ssh via sub.process as I?m not permitted to run ssh in a
non-interactive mode i.e. I need to supply a password to log in to the
remote server.

I?ve looked at Paramiko (verion 1.7.6), but so far I?m struggling to
get this to work successfully. The login works correctly but when the
command is sent an exception is thrown. I will be emailing the
relevant forums to see if there is a newer version available. But in
the meantime I thought I would enquire to see what everyone else is
using.

Thanks in advance

Nigel Stolting

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec  9 01:56:14 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:56:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
In-Reply-To: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091209005614.GA19280@panix.com>

On Tue, Dec 08, 2009, Nigel Stolting wrote:
>
> I'm looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
> using a Python based SSH client.

Haven't used it myself, but execnet is the driver for py.test's remote
execution capabilities.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
to post the wrong information.  

From simeonf at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 01:57:18 2009
From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:57:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
In-Reply-To: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e58a4bea0912081657n347b2c32h6e5776e9beb55e60@mail.gmail.com>

If you're just looking for some decent examples -  Fabric
(http://docs.fabfile.org/0.9.0/) uses Paramiko to run commands on
remote hosts and the code is pretty reasonable...

-regards
Simeon Franklin

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Nigel Stolting <nigel.stolting at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I?m looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
> using a Python based SSH client.
>
> The project ?I?m working requires various commands to be sent to a
> remote server (running Linux) to get various state, including ?df ?a?,
> ?ps ?a? and ?top?.
>
> I?m trying to stay away from pexpect, as I?ve been stung in the past
> dealing with various timing issues. In addition, it?s not possible to
> run ssh via sub.process as I?m not permitted to run ssh in a
> non-interactive mode i.e. I need to supply a password to log in to the
> remote server.
>
> I?ve looked at Paramiko (verion 1.7.6), but so far I?m struggling to
> get this to work successfully. The login works correctly but when the
> command is sent an exception is thrown. I will be emailing the
> relevant forums to see if there is a newer version available. But in
> the meantime I thought I would enquire to see what everyone else is
> using.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Nigel Stolting
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed Dec  9 02:09:54 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:09:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
In-Reply-To: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091208170954.2ba49636@dartworks.biz>

=== On Tue, 12/08, Nigel Stolting wrote: ===
> I?m looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
> using a Python based SSH client.
===

I've done this successfully using my own library (includes an expect.py
module that is not pexpect.py but a whole new implementation). 

It's part of the Pycopia collection. 

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/

Use subversion to get it.

The actual SSH wrapper is here:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/sshlib.py

and the expect-like module:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/expect.py

Works in conjunction with the proctools module:

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/proctools.py



-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From brent.tubbs at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 03:18:38 2009
From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:18:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
In-Reply-To: <20091208170954.2ba49636@dartworks.biz>
References: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091208170954.2ba49636@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <769bb4300912081818w6a8c15eeu6e7d6755b569cb98@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Fabric.  I first set it up about a week ago for deploying a Django
project I'm working on. Besides uploading and unpacking my source, it uses
ssh to restart my apache instance and run my database migrations.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:

> === On Tue, 12/08, Nigel Stolting wrote: ===
> > I?m looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
> > using a Python based SSH client.
> ===
>
> I've done this successfully using my own library (includes an expect.py
> module that is not pexpect.py but a whole new implementation).
>
> It's part of the Pycopia collection.
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/
>
> Use subversion to get it.
>
> The actual SSH wrapper is here:
>
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/sshlib.py
>
> and the expect-like module:
>
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/expect.py
>
> Works in conjunction with the proctools module:
>
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/proctools.py
>
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
> --
> -- --------------------
> Keith Dart
> <keith at dartworks.biz>
> =======================
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jim at well.com  Wed Dec  9 03:58:58 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:58:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] another call for newbie nuggets
Message-ID: <1260327538.6452.23.camel@jim-laptop>



   another call for newbie nuggets: ten minutes 
of fame for those presenting pythonic features 
and techniques to programmers new to python. 



From nigel.stolting at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 07:43:15 2009
From: nigel.stolting at gmail.com (Nigel Stolting)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:43:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding a reliable Python SSH client
In-Reply-To: <769bb4300912081818w6a8c15eeu6e7d6755b569cb98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <292c14f80912081646x7ecf5093n85121955d3a76b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091208170954.2ba49636@dartworks.biz>
	<769bb4300912081818w6a8c15eeu6e7d6755b569cb98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <292c14f80912082243v6288c1b9i27d7d382fc70a246@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the responses.

I had a quick look at Fabric and after only a short amount of time was
running commands against my remote Linux server.

Regards

Nigel Stolting

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Brent Tubbs <brent.tubbs at gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for Fabric.? I first set it up about a week ago for deploying a Django
> project I'm working on. Besides uploading and unpacking my source, it uses
> ssh to restart my apache instance and run my database migrations.
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
>>
>> === On Tue, 12/08, Nigel Stolting wrote: ===
>> > I?m looking to see if anyone has had any experience (and success) with
>> > using a Python based SSH client.
>> ===
>>
>> I've done this successfully using my own library (includes an expect.py
>> module that is not pexpect.py but a whole new implementation).
>>
>> It's part of the Pycopia collection.
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/
>>
>> Use subversion to get it.
>>
>> The actual SSH wrapper is here:
>>
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/sshlib.py
>>
>> and the expect-like module:
>>
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/expect.py
>>
>> Works in conjunction with the proctools module:
>>
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/source/browse/trunk/process/pycopia/proctools.py
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Keith Dart
>>
>> --
>> -- --------------------
>> Keith Dart
>> <keith at dartworks.biz>
>> =======================
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Dec 10 14:12:07 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:12:07 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Pywebsocket an Ajax overhaul
Message-ID: <9F479993-92A6-4B4F-8FB1-60FFE288A104@glenjarvis.com>

It looks like we're about to get an overhaul of Ajax.

Anyone familiar with the server communication that enables web sockets  
and helps us avoid xhtmlrequests?

If you are, I am open to a talk on it..

Cheers,


Glen

From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 10 16:43:19 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:43:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Monday, December 14, 2009: wxPython
Message-ID: <1260459799.28537.13.camel@jim-laptop>



(NOTE: Because of Christmas, BayPIGgies meets in December 
on December 14: the second MONDAY of the month.) 


BayPIGgies meeting Monday, December 14, 2009: 

Tonight's talk is 
* wxPython 
by Tony Cappellini 

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: Comprehensions and Other Such Stuff. 

LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://www.baypiggies.net/ 


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
Newbie Nugget: Comprehensions and Other Such Stuff 
by Wesley Chun 


..... 7:40 PM to 8:30 PM (or so) ................
wxPython 
by Tony Cappellini 

wxPython is a GUI toolkit for the Python programming language. 
It allows Python programmers to create programs with a robust, 
highly functional graphical user interface, simply and easily. 
It is implemented as a Python extension module (native code) 
that wraps the popular wxWidgets cross platform GUI library, 
which is written in C++

My presentation is an introductory to using wxPython, GUI basics, 
IO redirection, GUI's vs cmd line programs, threading in a GUI 
app, and some helpful resources for wxPython,

Links: 
http://www.wxpython.org/ 



..... 8:30 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, 
events, and other topics. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually 
on the announcements and other interests.



From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Dec 10 20:16:38 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:16:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Any BayPIGgie Santas?
Message-ID: <e5660d770912101116r2426406bx7337ec412cdba457@mail.gmail.com>

The only reason we are able to do even the limited amount of Video capture
for the meetings that we're doing now is because of donations. We have a
camera purchased by one of our members (who isn't local and likes to stay
caught up with what goes on via video). We have another who has loaned us
the very cool microphones. (I didn't want to call anyone out - But, I'd
happily announce names for all the support if you wish it).

Well, it's been very difficult to keep the video data around. We have a mess
of videos because we don't have a single drive to keep them on. Does anyone
have a Terabyte drive that they can either loan or donate that would be
dedicated only to storing archival video footage (i.e., the raw data before
it gets streamed)?

The goal has been to get this into YouTube for all to see (and so we don't
have to keep the originals). But, I can't make that goal happen myself --
I'm just overwhelmed with work these days.

If you're a Santa, we can keep you on the list of people to be eternally
grateful for.


Cheers,


Glen
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From voidref at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 09:37:22 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:37:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wave invites
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912110037m6bbae2d3v37f8fe8e9c1bbbd9@mail.gmail.com>

I have wave invites, who wants?

=)

Alan
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From lavendula6654 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 17:56:16 2009
From: lavendula6654 at gmail.com (Elaine Haight)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:56:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Software Development Courses
Message-ID: <3652e3600912110856g277bde2ai4f62f4d736f295ba@mail.gmail.com>

Foothill College is offering two courses of interest to web application
software developers: Ajax and Python. These 11-week courses are held from
January through March. The Ajax class is entirely online, and the Python
class meets Thursday evenings at the Middlefield campus in Palo Alto.

 ?Application Software Development with Ajax? is a course designed for
students who are already familiar with some type of programming, and have
introductory knowledge of JavaScript and html. For more information, go to:
http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
and choose Department: ?COIN?, quarter: ?Winter 2010?, and course number
?71?.

?Introduction to Python Programming? meets Thursday evenings and is also
designed for students who are familiar with some type of programming. The
instructor is Marilyn Davis. For more information or to register, go to:

http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
and choose Department: ?CIS?, quarter: ?Winter 2010?, and course number
?68K?.

If you would like to sign up for a class, please register beforehand by
going to:
http://www.foothill.fhda.edu/reg/index.php
If you do not register ahead of time, the class you want may be cancelled!

If you have questions, you can contact:
h a i g h t E l a i n e AT f o o t h i l l . e d u
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From voidref at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 20:32:01 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:32:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Wave invites
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912110037m6bbae2d3v37f8fe8e9c1bbbd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00912110037m6bbae2d3v37f8fe8e9c1bbbd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912111132m37904c14ya6c550fb3eb98911@mail.gmail.com>

I have 10 left, don't be shy!

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have wave invites, who wants?
>
> =)
>
> Alan
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Dec 12 17:46:21 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:46:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Egads How can I unsubscibe/Was: Rate pls my video
In-Reply-To: <355789d6-59c0-477b-9867-5475a6ef9abe@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <355789d6-59c0-477b-9867-5475a6ef9abe@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CF985102-AF2E-4F05-87FE-FBE83614914C@glenjarvis.com>

I believe it was through the baypiggies group that I saw this request  
to sign up for the Plone User Group ZPUG-Valley. I've got nothing but  
spam like below and can't seem to get unsubscribed -- even after eight  
attempts.

Has anyone else experienced this? How did you get unsubscribed?

Glen

On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Anna S <ulyanagapitov23432 at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi. Here's another one of my home videos
> http://starturl.com/bestvids
> Rate please
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> Groups "ZPUG-Valley" group.
> To post to this group, send email to zpug-valley at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to zpug-valley+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com 
> .
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/zpug-valley?hl=en 
> .
>
>

From voidref at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 20:33:05 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:33:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Egads How can I unsubscibe/Was: Rate pls my video
In-Reply-To: <CF985102-AF2E-4F05-87FE-FBE83614914C@glenjarvis.com>
References: <355789d6-59c0-477b-9867-5475a6ef9abe@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<CF985102-AF2E-4F05-87FE-FBE83614914C@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <2DA81523-6385-4B18-A2A1-272360989A60@gmail.com>

I have found that the google groups unsubscribe links at the bottom  
don't work.

But, what does work is to unsub through the google groups account  
page. This should be accessable through your google account page  
somewhere.

I'd give exact diersction but am sending this from my phone. Let me  
know if you have any problems and I will send out better instructions  
latre.

:)

Alan

On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I believe it was through the baypiggies group that I saw this  
> request to sign up for the Plone User Group ZPUG-Valley. I've got  
> nothing but spam like below and can't seem to get unsubscribed --  
> even after eight attempts.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this? How did you get unsubscribed?
>
> Glen
>
> On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Anna S <ulyanagapitov23432 at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi. Here's another one of my home videos
>> http://starturl.com/bestvids
>> Rate please
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
>> Groups "ZPUG-Valley" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to zpug-valley at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to zpug-valley+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/zpug-valley?hl=en 
>> .
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 21:26:24 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:26:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Egads How can I unsubscibe/Was: Rate pls my video
In-Reply-To: <2DA81523-6385-4B18-A2A1-272360989A60@gmail.com>
References: <355789d6-59c0-477b-9867-5475a6ef9abe@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<CF985102-AF2E-4F05-87FE-FBE83614914C@glenjarvis.com>
	<2DA81523-6385-4B18-A2A1-272360989A60@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0912121226n245370a8jaf68a5d5a4014f27@mail.gmail.com>

eep, that's mine - I'll take a look at the configuration. Sorry Glen!!

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have found that the google groups unsubscribe links at the bottom don't
> work.
>
> But, what does work is to unsub through the google groups account page.
> This should be accessable through your google account page somewhere.
>
> I'd give exact diersction but am sending this from my phone. Let me know if
> you have any problems and I will send out better instructions latre.
>
> :)
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>
>  I believe it was through the baypiggies group that I saw this request to
>> sign up for the Plone User Group ZPUG-Valley. I've got nothing but spam like
>> below and can't seem to get unsubscribed -- even after eight attempts.
>>
>> Has anyone else experienced this? How did you get unsubscribed?
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Anna S <ulyanagapitov23432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi. Here's another one of my home videos
>>> http://starturl.com/bestvids
>>> Rate please
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "ZPUG-Valley" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to zpug-valley at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> zpug-valley+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<zpug-valley%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/zpug-valley?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 21:34:26 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:34:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Egads How can I unsubscibe/Was: Rate pls my video
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0912121226n245370a8jaf68a5d5a4014f27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <355789d6-59c0-477b-9867-5475a6ef9abe@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<CF985102-AF2E-4F05-87FE-FBE83614914C@glenjarvis.com>
	<2DA81523-6385-4B18-A2A1-272360989A60@gmail.com>
	<baf0d46b0912121226n245370a8jaf68a5d5a4014f27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0912121234q48cc478cle79bbf71980998df@mail.gmail.com>

OK settings should be fine and I banned/unsubbed the offenders.

Donna

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Donna Snow <donnamsnow at gmail.com> wrote:

> eep, that's mine - I'll take a look at the configuration. Sorry Glen!!
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I have found that the google groups unsubscribe links at the bottom don't
>> work.
>>
>> But, what does work is to unsub through the google groups account page.
>> This should be accessable through your google account page somewhere.
>>
>> I'd give exact diersction but am sending this from my phone. Let me know
>> if you have any problems and I will send out better instructions latre.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I believe it was through the baypiggies group that I saw this request to
>>> sign up for the Plone User Group ZPUG-Valley. I've got nothing but spam like
>>> below and can't seem to get unsubscribed -- even after eight attempts.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else experienced this? How did you get unsubscribed?
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Anna S <ulyanagapitov23432 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi. Here's another one of my home videos
>>>> http://starturl.com/bestvids
>>>> Rate please
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "ZPUG-Valley" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to zpug-valley at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> zpug-valley+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<zpug-valley%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
>>>> .
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/zpug-valley?hl=en.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
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From laban.patrick at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 09:12:11 2009
From: laban.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Laban)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:12:11 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Request to shadow software engineers
Message-ID: <5ee958ff0912140012qae4b189n66be6ea79ffbde52@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

As those who have attended the last few meetings may be aware, I am a recent
college graduate seeking to start a career as a software engineer.  One of
the things that could be of great value would be to shadow a software
engineer for a day or two to get an inside look at the environment.

If anyone is willing to allow me to shadow them I would greatly appreciate
it.  Please let me know if you are able to help.

Finally if anyone has any leads concerning either internships or entry-level
positions please contact me.

Regards,
Patrick Laban
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From laban.patrick at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 12:40:44 2009
From: laban.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Laban)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 03:40:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Request to shadow software engineers
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W256276496ADED9674E06F9A0890@phx.gbl>
References: <5ee958ff0912140012qae4b189n66be6ea79ffbde52@mail.gmail.com> 
	<BAY111-W256276496ADED9674E06F9A0890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5ee958ff0912140340k7f73fb2bqed364ff8f1f4c4ce@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to Stephen for suggesting I give a bit more information about
myself and what I'm looking to do.

I graduated in May with a computer science degree and recently moved from
South Carolina to the Bay area in search of my first professional position.
My background is mostly academic work along with some open-source work in
the latter half of college.  Most of my programming has been with Python 2.x
/ 3 on the business layer.  I also learned C++ through classroom experience.

Currently I am seeking a position as a software engineer, either through an
internship or a full time position.  I would like to gain experience with
cloud computing and software-as-a-service as it appears knowledge in these
areas will be crucial in the future.

The reason that I would like to shadow a software engineer for a day is that
I have no experience in a professional environment and would greatly benefit
from a better idea of a typical workday in the field.

Please let me know if you would be able to let me shadow you or of course if
you have any leads, questions, or suggestions.

Regards,
Patrick Laban
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Dec 14 18:31:58 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:31:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
Message-ID: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry for the late notice. As some of you know, I've been under the
weather this last week. I won't be going to BayPIGgies tonight. I therefore,
can't video tape. I'd *love*  it if someone else did -- even if it were just
audio recording instead of video.

I'd like to learn about wxPython.

Cheers,


Glen
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From voidref at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 01:05:33 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
In-Reply-To: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>

I can try and make it by tonight with my gear, what time should I show up?

Alan

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I'm sorry for the late notice. As some of you know, I've been under the
> weather this last week. I won't be going to BayPIGgies tonight. I therefore,
> can't video tape. I'd *love*  it if someone else did -- even if it were just
> audio recording instead of video.
>
> I'd like to learn about wxPython.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From wescpy at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 01:28:50 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:28:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Monday, December 14,
	2009: 	wxPython
In-Reply-To: <1260459799.28537.13.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1260459799.28537.13.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580912141628h17169659ge37dfed358528242@mail.gmail.com>

> ..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
> Newbie Nugget: Comprehensions and Other Such Stuff
> by Wesley Chun


hey gang,

it was a bad weekend to catch the stomach flu, and i was hoping to be
well enough to do the NN tonite, but that doesn't look like it's
materializing. can someone else fill in with a different topic tonite
as i won't be able to attend. sorry for the last-minute, but i was
hoping for some miraculous recovery.

-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
    http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue Dec 15 01:35:42 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:35:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D113406F-042A-4A59-80F9-10E65D90B45A@glenjarvis.com>

You can't generally get in more than 15- 30 minutes before start time (unfortunately). So, the arrival time is up to you. I usually try showing *at least* 30 min early. However, I'm either teeth-chattering in the cold, and/or rushing around at the last minute regardless.

THANK YOU for doing this!

You're awesome ! :)

Cheers,


Glen


On Dec 14, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Alan Westbrook wrote:

> I can try and make it by tonight with my gear, what time should I show up?
> 
> Alan
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry for the late notice. As some of you know, I've been under the weather this last week. I won't be going to BayPIGgies tonight. I therefore, can't video tape. I'd *love*  it if someone else did -- even if it were just audio recording instead of video.
> 
> I'd like to learn about wxPython.
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From jim at well.com  Tue Dec 15 01:40:16 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:40:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260837616.28537.395.camel@jim-laptop>


enough in advance of 7:30 to 
* get in while someone's around to open the doors 
* set up the stuff in advance of 7:35 



On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 16:05 -0800, Alan Westbrook wrote:
> I can try and make it by tonight with my gear, what time should I show
> up?
> 
> Alan
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> wrote:
>         I'm sorry for the late notice. As some of you know, I've been
>         under the weather this last week. I won't be going to
>         BayPIGgies tonight. I therefore, can't video tape. I'd *love*
>          it if someone else did -- even if it were just audio
>         recording instead of video.
>         
>         
>         I'd like to learn about wxPython.
>         
>         
>         Cheers,
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         Glen
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         Baypiggies mailing list
>         Baypiggies at python.org
>         To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From tpc247 at aim.com  Thu Dec  3 21:38:58 2009
From: tpc247 at aim.com (tpc247 at aim.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:38:58 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google Account temporarily
	disabled ?
Message-ID: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>

Hi all, I know this doesn't have much to do with Python, but I know a lot of Google employees read this list, and I was hoping that someone in the Gmail department might know more.  I got my account temporarily disabled this past Monday at 5pm.  All of a sudden my google talk application presented a dialogue box saying 

Username and password do not match.
You provided <username>

When I went to login to Gmail, I was presented with:

Account temporarily disabled
We apologize for the inconvenience. Accounts may be disabled because of a perceived violation of either the Google Terms of Service or product-specific Terms of Service. Learn more

Now at first I thought it was something that I did, and read the Google Terms of Service, and did some more research via google 'account temporarily disabled', and as far as I can tell, I'm not the only one who had their account disabled for no discernible reason.  I've sent the Google Account team at least two messages saying I don't have a cell phone, please let me know what I did and please reactivate my account, and I provided an alternate email address, and to this day I have not received a single response.  I also enlisted the aid of my roommate and my family members, who have cell phones that can receive text messages, and tried to use the Google interface to send a verification code via text message to their cell phones in order to reactivate my account.  Unfortunately, I've done this twice, last night and this morning, and both times I was presented with:

Sorry, there seems to be a problem. The service you're looking for is temporarily unavailable. We're working hard to restore your access as soon as possible. Please try again in a few hours. Thanks for your patience.

I'm at my wit's end, and I was wondering if anyone else had gone through something similar.

Thuon Chen
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From jim at well.com  Tue Dec 15 01:28:49 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:28:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies Tonight
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90912141602q5c380710rbb74d0f0e046ac79@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90912141602q5c380710rbb74d0f0e046ac79@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260836929.28537.388.camel@jim-laptop>


   i hope this won't be a disaster. me too. 
i've got family stuff that just came up 
today and is going to keep me home and 
complicate the whole week if not the whole 
month. 



On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 16:02 -0800, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I can't make it tonight.  I always have a ton of stuff I have to go to
> Monday night.
> 
> Happy Hacking!
> -jj
> 


From voidref at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 01:41:28 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:41:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
In-Reply-To: <1260837616.28537.395.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1260837616.28537.395.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912141641x3d7cff55v39712b309cb1ac45@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I'll see if I can get there by 7 - 7:15 or so

Alan

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:40 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
> enough in advance of 7:30 to
> * get in while someone's around to open the doors
> * set up the stuff in advance of 7:35
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 16:05 -0800, Alan Westbrook wrote:
> > I can try and make it by tonight with my gear, what time should I show
> > up?
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> > wrote:
> >         I'm sorry for the late notice. As some of you know, I've been
> >         under the weather this last week. I won't be going to
> >         BayPIGgies tonight. I therefore, can't video tape. I'd *love*
> >          it if someone else did -- even if it were just audio
> >         recording instead of video.
> >
> >
> >         I'd like to learn about wxPython.
> >
> >
> >         Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         Glen
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         Baypiggies mailing list
> >         Baypiggies at python.org
> >         To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> >         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue Dec 15 01:52:39 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:52:39 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Someone else video tonight?
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912141641x3d7cff55v39712b309cb1ac45@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912140931t2235e312lb61c61cffa5abf22@mail.gmail.com>
	<5df1e9b00912141605m1619ee6ejd82c0cc5e360786d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1260837616.28537.395.camel@jim-laptop>
	<5df1e9b00912141641x3d7cff55v39712b309cb1ac45@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B00B680-BC2A-4CEC-BC83-037236344C9F@glenjarvis.com>

> Ok, I'll see if I can get there by 7 - 7:15 or so
> 
> Alan

I'm sorry I couldn't be there and this is last minute :(


Thank you for stepping up to the plate!  


Glen



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From laban.patrick at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 03:37:49 2009
From: laban.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Laban)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:37:49 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies Tonight
In-Reply-To: <1260836929.28537.388.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <c41f67b90912141602q5c380710rbb74d0f0e046ac79@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1260836929.28537.388.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <5ee958ff0912141837v300f31ebma5c8e78e6e21a3a6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm afraid the bus was early and ran right past me, despite
my running and waving.  So I can't be there tonight.
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From p at ulmcnett.com  Tue Dec 15 04:40:21 2009
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:40:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google Account
 temporarily disabled ?
In-Reply-To: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B270525.1060608@ulmcnett.com>

tpc247 at aim.com wrote:
> I'm at my wit's end, and I was wondering if anyone else had gone through 
> something similar.

Ouch. Stories like this make me feel vindicated that I frequently argue against my 
clients moving their services into 'the cloud'. Sure I have a gmail account, and it's 
never let me down, but I'm not going to rely on it.

Paul

From daniel at zuster.org  Tue Dec 15 05:18:30 2009
From: daniel at zuster.org (Daniel Dunbar)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:18:30 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google Account
	temporarily disabled ?
In-Reply-To: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <6a8523d60912142018s3396093er2e83b12ffca1891b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:38 PM,  <tpc247 at aim.com> wrote:
> Hi all, I know this doesn't have much to do with Python, but I know a lot of
> Google employees read this list, and I was hoping that someone in the Gmail
> department might know more.? I got my account temporarily disabled this past
> Monday at 5pm.? All of a sudden my google talk application presented a
> dialogue box saying
>
> Username and password do not match.
> You provided <username>
>
> When I went to login to Gmail, I was presented with:
>
> Account temporarily disabled
> We apologize for the inconvenience. Accounts may be disabled because of a
> perceived violation of either the Google Terms of Service or
> product-specific Terms of Service. Learn more
>
> Now at first I thought it was something that I did, and read the Google
> Terms of Service, and did some more research via google 'account temporarily
> disabled', and as far as I can tell, I'm not the only one who had their
> account disabled for no discernible reason.? I've sent the Google Account
> team at least two messages saying I don't have a cell phone, please let me
> know what I did and please reactivate my account, and I provided an
> alternate email address, and to this day I have not received a single
> response.? I also enlisted the aid of my roommate and my family members, who
> have cell phones that can receive text messages, and tried to use the Google
> interface to send a verification code via text message to their cell phones
> in order to reactivate my account.? Unfortunately, I've done this twice,
> last night and this morning, and both times I was presented with:
>
> Sorry, there seems to be a problem. The service you're looking for is
> temporarily unavailable. We're working hard to restore your access as soon
> as possible. Please try again in a few hours. Thanks for your patience.
>
> I'm at my wit's end, and I was wondering if anyone else had gone through
> something similar.

This has happened to me numerous times, but not enough to motivate me
to do something about it. I usually treat it as a sign I should stop
hacking for a while. :)

Generally its happened to me after I've been on a mass email
processing kick, so I assume it is based on some spam-detection-like
activity monitoring.

 - Daniel

> Thuon Chen
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From janssen at parc.com  Tue Dec 15 19:34:41 2009
From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:34:41 PST
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google Account
	temporarily disabled ?
In-Reply-To: <4B270525.1060608@ulmcnett.com>
References: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B270525.1060608@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <21268.1260902081@parc.com>

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote:

> Ouch. Stories like this make me feel vindicated that I frequently
> argue against my clients moving their services into 'the cloud'. Sure
> I have a gmail account, and it's never let me down, but I'm not going
> to rely on it.

Well, there are clouds and clouds.  Let's not confuse a free
you-get-what-you-pay-for cloud with a bought-with-a-contract cloud;
the latter can have penalty clauses to protect customers.

Bill

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed Dec 16 04:01:31 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:01:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
Message-ID: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>

I did attend Mondays talk on wxPython. It was very informative. But it
reminded me of something I've been thinking about, and one other
attendee also commented on (I forgot who, sorry). That is that (it seems
to me) that native GUI development is going the way of the dinosaur. I'm
curious if anyone else thinks that is true? For me, and it seems others
as well, most user interfaces seem to be moving to browser based (HTML,
etc.) even for embedded, local, or in-house applications. 

So, what is the future of native GUI development? Is there one, or will
every custom interface move to the web technologies?



-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From voidref at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 04:20:03 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:20:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912151920t6356d51dw1443e4d833d53e5c@mail.gmail.com>

I would hazard a guess that native GUI development has at least 10 years
left in it.

Until we get pervasive big pipes to the interwebs, it's going to be hard to
do any content manipulation 'in the cloud'.

10 years ago, I had 1.5 mbits, now, I have, uhh, 3mbit? Not exactly good
advancement on that front.

I know this is only 2 datapoints, and *some* people can get a lot more
bandwidth, but I am talking about pervasive connection speeds.

At the same time, our content creation is getting as big as our HDDs can
hold, my camera holds 8 gigs of data, and it was nearly full after the 120
minute standard def movie, if I had filmed at 720p, I probably wouldn't have
been able to capture the whole talk, and cameras are all almost 1080p these
days.

Imagine having to upload 100 Gigs of data at even 10mbit just to edit your
movies on the
web interface.

There are a lot of good things coming down the pipe for web-only interfaces,
it just seems that the desktop will have a place for a while yet.

Alan


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:

> I did attend Mondays talk on wxPython. It was very informative. But it
> reminded me of something I've been thinking about, and one other
> attendee also commented on (I forgot who, sorry). That is that (it seems
> to me) that native GUI development is going the way of the dinosaur. I'm
> curious if anyone else thinks that is true? For me, and it seems others
> as well, most user interfaces seem to be moving to browser based (HTML,
> etc.) even for embedded, local, or in-house applications.
>
> So, what is the future of native GUI development? Is there one, or will
> every custom interface move to the web technologies?
>
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
> --
> -- --------------------
> Keith Dart
> <keith at dartworks.biz>
> =======================
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From jason.lai at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 04:44:12 2009
From: jason.lai at gmail.com (Jason Lai)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:44:12 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912151920t6356d51dw1443e4d833d53e5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<5df1e9b00912151920t6356d51dw1443e4d833d53e5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <351d5ed20912151944t69526192p2846f2e2a983affa@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would hazard a guess that native GUI development has at least 10 years
> left in it.
>
> Until we get pervasive big pipes to the interwebs, it's going to be hard to
> do any content manipulation 'in the cloud'.
>
> 10 years ago, I had 1.5 mbits, now, I have, uhh, 3mbit? Not exactly good
> advancement on that front.
>
> I know this is only 2 datapoints, and *some* people can get a lot more
> bandwidth, but I am talking about pervasive connection speeds.
>
> At the same time, our content creation is getting as big as our HDDs can
> hold, my camera holds 8 gigs of data, and it was nearly full after the 120
> minute standard def movie, if I had filmed at 720p, I probably wouldn't have
> been able to capture the whole talk, and cameras are all almost 1080p these
> days.
>
> Imagine having to upload 100 Gigs of data at even 10mbit just to edit your
> movies on the
> web interface.
>
> There are a lot of good things coming down the pipe for web-only
> interfaces, it just seems that the desktop will have a place for a while
> yet.
>
> Alan
>

Browser-based doesn't always mean "in the cloud" any more. Google Gears and
HTML5 databases provide a means to store data locally. Maybe in the future
they'll allow users to load files from their desktop without uploading it
and manipulate the data using Javascript, which I think Flash can already
do.

The canvas element lets you do image manipulation locally in the browser,
which wasn't feasible before. Some browsers are working on WebGL support. So
now the browser is becoming one giant application framework.

It also means that the code is loaded from a remote server instead of
installed, and works across multiple platforms. You could also just download
the Javascript and run it locally, offline. Performance is still an issue
(but getting better), which is why native development will be around for a
long time (for the same reason that people are still writing in C, which is
bordering on 40 years) but it depends on the application.

 - Jason
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From hjtoi at comcast.net  Wed Dec 16 05:54:07 2009
From: hjtoi at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:54:07 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>

Keith Dart wrote:
> So, what is the future of native GUI development? Is there one, or will
> every custom interface move to the web technologies?

I think there will always (well, for the foreseeable future at least) be
a market for native (GUI or otherwise) applications. Currently bandwidth
is a pretty effective limiter for some data intensive applications.
There are also people that don't trust anyone with their data, for whom
native applications are the way to go. Security is another point which
native applications can have as selling point.

But I do agree that for the majority of applications "browser-based" is
the future. I would in fact argue that that has been the case for
several years already. I see mobile devices currently bucking that
trend, but as devices get more powerful and (mobile) browsers more
capable, mobile applications will go the way of the desktop applications.

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net

From hjtoi at comcast.net  Wed Dec 16 06:10:01 2009
From: hjtoi at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:10:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] wxPython, redirecting stderr etc.
Message-ID: <4B286BA9.8040405@comcast.net>

Tony showed one way of redirecting stderr in a wxPython application for
debugging purposes, but there is also another way: the redirect
attribute that wx.App takes.

In Chandler I used this to present the user with a feedback dialog that
showed the stack, some environment variables, and allowed the user to
enter email address and comment what they were doing, and optionally
send th report to OSAF. If you've ever used Talkback (Netscape/Mozilla
browsers) or similar, you are probably familiar with the concept.

There is more information about this in a stackoverflow entry here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/408810/catch-mainloop-exceptions-and-displaying-them-in-messagedialogs/517555

I should add that the server side component (a cherrypy app) is also
available in here: http://svn.osafoundation.org/ofb/ (Disclaimer: I did
not write ofb.)

By the way, even though nobody might be working on Chandler anymore, all
of the code is still available and you might find a lot of it useful in
other projects as well. See also
http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/blog/2008/08/08/chandler-hits-gold/

An example where I was able to rip a feature of Chandler and turn it
into a standalone project later on is described here:
http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/blog/2009/02/05/my-little-secret/

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net

From p at ulmcnett.com  Wed Dec 16 06:15:50 2009
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:15:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B286D06.6070302@ulmcnett.com>

Heikki Toivonen wrote:
> Keith Dart wrote:
>> So, what is the future of native GUI development? Is there one, or will
>> every custom interface move to the web technologies?
> 
> I think there will always (well, for the foreseeable future at least) be
> a market for native (GUI or otherwise) applications. Currently bandwidth
> is a pretty effective limiter for some data intensive applications.
> There are also people that don't trust anyone with their data, for whom
> native applications are the way to go. Security is another point which
> native applications can have as selling point.
> 
> But I do agree that for the majority of applications "browser-based" is
> the future. I would in fact argue that that has been the case for
> several years already. I see mobile devices currently bucking that
> trend, but as devices get more powerful and (mobile) browsers more
> capable, mobile applications will go the way of the desktop applications.

I see mass-market, social, freeware/adware apps being mostly web-based, but vertical 
and niche-market / commercial apps resisting moving to the web, at least completely.

In the latter case, I see traditional desktop GUI apps connecting to web services for 
perhaps part of the equation, but I think desktop apps will be around for a while, 
like it or not.

The current trend is no doubt toward web apps, but there will still be strong demand 
for desktop apps in the near future, and desktop apps will never completely die out, 
even though web apps could be implemented on a standalone system quite readily, even 
today.

Paul

From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec 16 09:28:08 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:28:08 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dec 20 Global Python & All Free SW HW Culture meeting
	- BerkeleyTIP
Message-ID: <1260952088.9755.1350355131@webmail.messagingengine.com>

A great December Solstice to you & yours. :)

JOIN the Global All Free SW, HW, Culture meeting via VOIP
Dec 20 Sunday, 12N-3PM (Pacific = UTC-8) = 3P-6P Eastern = 8P-11P UTC
[Jan 2009 meetings: 2nd, 17th - mark your calendar]
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule


==  WATCH some VIDEOS:
Mark Shuttleworth Interview - 10.04 Lucid Larynx
Learning from Code History , Andreas Zeller
Why does my program fail? Your version history might have the answer.
Audio Hardware Enablement Session,  UbuntuDevelopersSummit in Dallas
Distributed Development,  UDS in Dallas
Splunk,  Jeremy Thurgood  CLUG
Upstart,  Stefano Rivera  CLUG
Interfacing with the real world,  Mark Ter Morshuizen, Marc Welz CLUG
Accelerating Graphics;  Camp KDE 2009
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos


== Join the MAILING LIST & tell us which videos you will watch & why:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


==  JOIN the meeting via IRC & VOIP:
Come discuss any & everything, & work on your individual or group
projects.

HOT TOPICS: Ub or KUb 9.10?, Ubuntu 10.04 plans, Android, Python3000 in
2010?

Start on the #berkeleytip irc.freenode.net channel, & we'll help you get
your VOIP system up & working.  For VOIP SW, & connection info, see:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance

Berkeley meeting LOCATION:  Watch the website & mail list for latest
details,  perhaps at the Berkeley Public Library, or a cafe, due to Free
Speech Cafe closed for winter break.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


==  OPPORTUNITIES to VOLUNTEER or learn new JOB SKILLS for 2010:
Help set up our: Mailing list, FreeSwitch VOIP server, website
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/opportunities
Inquire & discuss at the meeting.


==  For Forwarding - You are invited to forward this announcement
wherever it would be appreciated.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 17:24:47 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:24:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies]  Password management
In-Reply-To: <4B286BA9.8040405@comcast.net>
References: <4B286BA9.8040405@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20091216162446.GA17466@panix.com>

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009, Heikki Toivonen wrote:
>
> An example where I was able to rip a feature of Chandler and turn it
> into a standalone project later on is described here:
> http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/blog/2009/02/05/my-little-secret/

Nice!  But how do you safely store the master password for completely
automated encryption/decryption?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 17:27:34 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:27:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] wxPython author?
Message-ID: <20091216162734.GA20451@panix.com>

Packt is looking for an author for a wxPython book.  If you're
interested, please contact me off-list.  (Or contact them directly if
you're already familiar with them.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From DennisR at dair.com  Wed Dec 16 18:04:00 2009
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:04:00 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <mailman.804.1260983417.2867.baypiggies@python.org>

At 07:01 PM 12/15/2009, Keith Dart wrote:
>I did attend Mondays talk on wxPython. It was very informative. But it
>reminded me of something I've been thinking about, and one other
>attendee also commented on (I forgot who, sorry). That is that (it seems
>to me) that native GUI development is going the way of the dinosaur.

There seemed to be few enough of us there that the comment you have 
in mind could have been mine.  I have been doing Windows (mostly) 
desktop apps where the app is a temporary http server and the user 
interface is browser based. However ... I would not and hope I did 
not claim native GUI development is going the way of the dinosaur.

In Feb. 2007, I made a Baypiggies presentation in which I outlined my 
experience developing the same Python app with wxPython interface, a 
browser interface, and direct to windows API using ctypes:

         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ44E6O09j4

Summary: each did the job but browser was lighter weight and more portable.

Because the "server" is running on the local machine, it has full 
access to the all the facilities Python provides.  Since the server 
binds to 127.0.0.1, there is no possibility of attack from a browser 
on a remote machine.  A remote multi-user implementation is a natural 
extension, if the application and market require that.




From tony at tcapp.com  Wed Dec 16 18:24:55 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:24:55 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] wxPython author?
In-Reply-To: <20091216162734.GA20451@panix.com>
References: <20091216162734.GA20451@panix.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912160924g3c8f0931od1e9c60c50a7f2ca@mail.gmail.com>

Why don't they contact Robin Dunn?
He is the creator/maintainer & expert on the subject, and has already
authored a book on it through Manning Publishing?

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> Packt is looking for an author for a wxPython book.  If you're
> interested, please contact me off-list.  (Or contact them directly if
> you're already familiar with them.)
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
> never really had enjoyed programming before.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From tony at tcapp.com  Wed Dec 16 18:32:41 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:32:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>

>
> >>There seemed to be few enough of us there that the comment you have in
> mind could have been mine.  I have been doing

Interesting idea Dennis. I nominate you for a presentation in 2010 on a
browser-based GUI app ;-0


> >>wxPython interface, a browser interface, and direct to windows API using
> ctypes:
>
>        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ44E6O09j4
>
> >>Summary: each did the job but browser was lighter weight and more
> portable.
>
How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 18:55:10 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:55:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>
	<8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091216175510.GB10457@panix.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
> How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?

You isolate the OS-specific sections of code -- very few apps require
OS-specific features top-to-bottom.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 18:56:16 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:56:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] wxPython author?
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0912160924g3c8f0931od1e9c60c50a7f2ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091216162734.GA20451@panix.com>
	<8249c4ac0912160924g3c8f0931od1e9c60c50a7f2ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091216175616.GC10457@panix.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
> Why don't they contact Robin Dunn?
> He is the creator/maintainer & expert on the subject, and has already
> authored a book on it through Manning Publishing?

Dunno.  ;-)  I would bet on that latter bit being an issue, but I don't
think it's my business to get involved in suggesting Robin if they
haven't already.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From rich at noir.com  Wed Dec 16 18:56:50 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:56:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <4B291F62.1020705@noir.com>

Keith Dart wrote:
> So, what is the future of native GUI development? Is there one, or will
> every custom interface move to the web technologies?
For some technologies, native interface is already dead.  You probably 
won't see any more of the traditional business applications using 4gl 
databases, forms, reports, etc, being done on native interfaces.  
There's just no point.  Web based interfaces are sufficient, more 
portable, more flexible.

For other technologies, native interface is very much alive.  Witness 
all mobile devices.  Witness any embedded applications.  Witness the 
fact that web based interfaces are /only/ working on the big name 
general purpose OS's.  That is, you can't, in general, run your 
companies salary or vacation database programs on your mobile phone, or 
your text reader, or on a 1lpc xo device, on your ps3, on your TiVo, or 
on anything other than the major web browsers, so people can be lost 
simply by running opera or camino or seamonkey.  Witness the gaming 
industry which surpassed the movie business in revenues several years 
ago.  Witness the explosion of applications available on TiVo, on ps3, 
on xbox360, on stand alone blu-ray players, on set top boxes.  Notice 
that these are captive embedded devices which, unlike mac or windows, 
can actually enforce DRM successfully.

Native interface is still very much alive in many arenas, especially 
embedded, but also for things like development.  IDE's are still 
native.  Web based IDE's are lousy.  Limitations on the web browser like 
memory footprint, security restrictions, lack of memory protection, 
clumsy multitasking, non-native code, balkanization of browser 
interfaces, etc, mean that the web browser is a terrible sandbox for 
anything that requires tight integration with your computer's IO 
devices, local disk usage,  heavy resource usage at all, or relies on 
specific properties of your underlying operating system like fault 
tolerance, parallelism, specialized rendering hardware like 3d graphics, 
or floating point coprocessors like GPU's, or (in the case of 
macintosh), superior user interface.  If you use any mac based 
applications, you'll generally find web based applications to be sorely 
lacking in user interface, standards, and simplicity.

SQL and databases didn't obviate the need for actual source code 
programming in other languages like C, or even java.  And the analogy 
here is extremely close.  For some extremely well solved problems, like 
simple database business applications, we now have extremely familiar 
answers.  That's what made 4gl's possible and that's what's making web 
based applications possible.  However, this is just a portion of the 
digital market place.

I used to think that the programming language BASIC was one of the worst 
things to ever happen to the world in our life times.  But then, one 
day, I realized that as long as BASIC existed, I'd always have a job 
because there are /so/ many things that just simply can't be done in 
BASIC that people who use BASIC would need to call me in to solve.  I 
feel the same way about 4gl's.  And I feel the same way about web based 
applications.

--rich
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 18:57:36 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:57:36 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091216172743.62D4DC400AF@mx8.webfaction.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<20091216172743.62D4DC400AF@mx8.webfaction.com>
Message-ID: <20091216175736.GD10457@panix.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Dennis Reinhardt wrote:
>
> Because the "server" is running on the local machine, it has full access 
> to the all the facilities Python provides.  Since the server binds to 
> 127.0.0.1, there is no possibility of attack from a browser on a remote 
> machine.  A remote multi-user implementation is a natural extension, if 
> the application and market require that.

Ditto.  And in fact that last sentence is exactly what the job I've been
advertising is for...  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From rich at noir.com  Wed Dec 16 18:59:35 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:59:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <351d5ed20912151944t69526192p2846f2e2a983affa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>	<5df1e9b00912151920t6356d51dw1443e4d833d53e5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<351d5ed20912151944t69526192p2846f2e2a983affa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B292007.6040305@noir.com>

Jason Lai wrote:
> Browser-based doesn't always mean "in the cloud" any more. Google 
> Gears and HTML5 databases provide a means to store data locally. Maybe 
> in the future they'll allow users to load files from their desktop 
> without uploading it and manipulate the data using Javascript, which I 
> think Flash can already do.
Transparently downloadable, runnable code that can also access your hard 
disk.

Does this scare anyone else?

--rich

From rich at noir.com  Wed Dec 16 19:07:33 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:07:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B2921E5.6030404@noir.com>

Heikki Toivonen wrote:
> But I do agree that for the majority of applications "browser-based" is
> the future. I would in fact argue that that has been the case for
> several years already. I see mobile devices currently bucking that
> trend, but as devices get more powerful and (mobile) browsers more
> capable, mobile applications will go the way of the desktop applications.
>   
I don't think they will.

It's related to the browser wars.  Everyone wants to own eyes.  In an 
embedded application, you do.  There's no choice for browser.  Once I've 
sold you a mobile phone or gaming platform or text reader or network 
toaster if you use it, you use my browser, so I get to decide what 
commercials you watch rather than google.  That's a revenue stream for 
me and a very strong motivation NOT to allow you to read web pages that 
haven't been specifically written for my browser or which aren't 
available on my walled garden.

As a hardware vendor, or an ISP, or a telecom carrier, or anything else, 
why would I want to give that up?  "general purpose use" is not a 
salable feature for these devices - you don't buy them because they are 
capable of running your companies vacation database.  You buy them 
because of their primary uses.

I can even argue that both macintosh and linux are poor choices for web 
browser hosting so that when we're talking about web based applications, 
we're really just talking about microsoft based development.

Now, microsoft still holds a monopoly on general purpose computing.  
Macintosh and linux are distant competitors.  However, most computers in 
the world today are no longer general purpose computers, (if they ever 
were).  No, most computers today are arm processors.  Most devices run 
non-microsoft.  And most of those are not capable of running the sorts 
of web based applications you're talking about.  Nor is there much 
motivation to teach them to do so.

--rich

From rich at noir.com  Wed Dec 16 19:19:35 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:19:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091216175510.GB10457@panix.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>	<8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216175510.GB10457@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B2924B7.1030202@noir.com>

Aahz wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>   
>> How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?
>>     
> You isolate the OS-specific sections of code -- very few apps require
> OS-specific features top-to-bottom.
>   
I think that depends on how we count.

If we include, say, strict user interface requirements, as is often the 
case on macintosh, then the number goes way up.

--rich
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From DennisR at dair.com  Wed Dec 16 19:25:30 2009
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:25:30 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>
	<8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.805.1260987951.2867.baypiggies@python.org>


>DR>>Summary: each did the job but browser was lighter weight and 
>more portable.
>TC>How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?

I meant portability as a continuum, not as a binary.  Thus, an 
approach can be "more" portable.

My experience is that it is always possible to reuse *some* code in a 
port and it is always necessary to do some additional code.  The 
extent of code which does not have to be modified determines where an 
approach lies on the portability continuum.

Windows api is one of the least portable approaches available but 
that does not mean zero code re-use.


From rich at noir.com  Wed Dec 16 19:29:33 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:29:33 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B29270D.1030005@noir.com>

I want to reiterate something I said in the middle of another post.

"Browser based development" today is really just code for "microsoft 
based development".  If you routinely use macintosh or linux, or are 
allergic to microsoft as I am, you quickly learn that "web based 
applications" really aren't portable at all.  Most aren't written to be 
portable as that's not part of the design goal.  Rather, the design goal 
is rapid development for a microsoft based market.

Witness the miscommunication earlier where someone wrote about windows 
api being "portable" across operating systems, where what they probably 
meant was "portable across microsoft operating systems".  This is part 
of the "microsoft centric" perspective which is so often associated with 
"web based development".

Yes, there are other cases and there are applications and frameworks 
that genuinely aim to be cross operating system, and some even come 
close.  But the primary thrust is still not about portability, it's 
about development time.

--rich

From andrew at atoulou.se  Wed Dec 16 19:37:59 2009
From: andrew at atoulou.se (Andrew Akira Toulouse)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:37:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B292007.6040305@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>	<5df1e9b00912151920t6356d51dw1443e4d833d53e5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<351d5ed20912151944t69526192p2846f2e2a983affa@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B292007.6040305@noir.com>
Message-ID: <68B320DF-DC74-4A78-B11B-105211A12DA3@atoulou.se>

I think Microsoft should make something competitive. Maybe call it  
ActiveX! It'll be a great idea that will revolutionize computing!  
That, or expose security holes and facilitate malware for years to  
come, but really, what are the chances of that happening.

What? It's 2009? Oh.

/snark

As it turns out, Google appears to be doing something to address your  
concerns already:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/

I think that Google has the advantage this time around of knowing a  
lot more about web browsers than anyone else knew way back in the day,  
and has the expertise (loads of smart people) necessary as well as the  
lessons learned from ActiveX to do it right this time. After all, Java  
has managed to do it, at least technologically - the user experience  
for applets seems to be consistently poor. I'm hoping that in whatever  
native solution comes out next (such as NaCl) there will be an easy  
way to manipulate web page content so that, for example, you could  
script web pages in Python. <script type="text/python"> would be  
awesome.

--Andy

On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:59 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote:

> Jason Lai wrote:
>> Browser-based doesn't always mean "in the cloud" any more. Google  
>> Gears and HTML5 databases provide a means to store data locally.  
>> Maybe in the future they'll allow users to load files from their  
>> desktop without uploading it and manipulate the data using  
>> Javascript, which I think Flash can already do.
> Transparently downloadable, runnable code that can also access your  
> hard disk.
>
> Does this scare anyone else?
>
> --rich
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From aleax at google.com  Wed Dec 16 20:16:21 2009
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:16:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B291F62.1020705@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz> <4B291F62.1020705@noir.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0912161116mc6d1c6frd03fa90e8f946329@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:56 AM, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com> wrote:
   ...
> mobile devices.? Witness any embedded applications.? Witness the fact that
> web based interfaces are only working on the big name general purpose OS's.

The Palm Pre and Chrome OS are "big name general purpose OS's"?!  Wow
-- I must tell my friends in the Chrome OS team and those working at
Palm (both of the groups still labor under the impression that they're
still-small, if growing, niches, so these news will definitely make
their day).

Re native vs web apps on mobile phones, see
http://daringfireball.net/2009/12/pastrykit  (and many web search hits
on pastrykit -- but Daring Fireball was there first;-).


Alex

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 20:28:14 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:28:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B2924B7.1030202@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>
	<8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091216175510.GB10457@panix.com> <4B2924B7.1030202@noir.com>
Message-ID: <20091216192814.GA20330@panix.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>>   
>>> How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?
>>     
>> You isolate the OS-specific sections of code -- very few apps require
>> OS-specific features top-to-bottom.
>   
> I think that depends on how we count.
>
> If we include, say, strict user interface requirements, as is often the  
> case on macintosh, then the number goes way up.

But then we're no longer talking about an app where the UI is
browser-based, which was the subject of this sub-thread.  And even if we
are talking about a true desktop app, my stricture about top-to-bottom
still applies, most likely.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Dec 16 20:32:15 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:32:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B29270D.1030005@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net> <4B29270D.1030005@noir.com>
Message-ID: <20091216193212.GB20330@panix.com>

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
>
> Yes, there are other cases and there are applications and frameworks  
> that genuinely aim to be cross operating system, and some even come  
> close.  But the primary thrust is still not about portability, it's  
> about development time.

Well, sure -- and it's Windows that sucks up way more time per bug than
other platforms.  (Speaking as someone working on a browser-based
desktop app that is in fact cross-platform, and who mostly sticks with
the Mac for primary development.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From DennisR at dair.com  Wed Dec 16 22:50:10 2009
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B29270D.1030005@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net> <4B29270D.1030005@noir.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.810.1261000224.2867.baypiggies@python.org>

At 10:29 AM 12/16/2009, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
>... someone wrote about windows api being "portable" across 
>operating systems, where what they probably meant was "portable 
>across microsoft operating systems".

Huh?  Several of us discussed portability.  If you meant me and want 
authority on what was meant, ASK, don't start attributing meanings 
and perspectives to unnamed "someone" based on quoting a single word.

>Most aren't written to be portable as that's not part of the design 
>goal.  Rather, the design goal is rapid development for a microsoft 
>based market.

I can't speak for the world, but portability for me *is* part of the 
design goal.  Rapid development for a microsoft based market is a 
commercial tactic.  If the app flops in that market, stop.  If the 
app is a success, extend to mac and, perhaps, linux.

No, some apps I make are not ported at day 0 and some have been.  But 
one of the reasons for using Python is to lay the groundwork for 
later porting, if commercially viable.


From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed Dec 16 23:07:50 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:07:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20091216140750.65dcad19@dartworks.biz>

=== On Wed, 12/16, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: ===

> There seemed to be few enough of us there that the comment you have 
> in mind could have been mine.  I have been doing Windows (mostly) 
> desktop apps where the app is a temporary http server and the user 
> interface is browser based. However ... I would not and hope I did 
> not claim native GUI development is going the way of the dinosaur.

If you were sitting in the front row, then yes. :-) However, I didn't
mean to imply that you said that. I'm just using that as a data point
for my own assessment.


> Because the "server" is running on the local machine, it has full 
> access to the all the facilities Python provides.  Since the server 
> binds to 127.0.0.1, there is no possibility of attack from a browser 
> on a remote machine.  A remote multi-user implementation is a natural 
> extension, if the application and market require that.

That's exactly what I had in mind. A custom, in-house application that
people often use Visual-whatever for might now become just browser
based using a local server. Later one might easily separate them, if
required. 

But when you do that a lot... it seems to obviate the need for a native
GUI. Now, if you use Google Chrome, which has the application feature
where you can turn off the nav bar and other decoration, you can't
hardly tell the difference. 


-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From jdsw2002 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 16 23:40:02 2009
From: jdsw2002 at yahoo.com (jd)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:40:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Web App using Turbogears.
Message-ID: <745010.80618.qm@web35802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Guys
??? Just wanted to share this with the local python community. We recently announced ConVirt 2.0 Beta for managing your virtualized data center. This is built upon TG2 and ExtJs
?? Check out details at 
?? http://www.convirture.com/wiki/index.php?title=Convirt2
?? http://www.convirture.com/blog

/Jd





      
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From DennisR at dair.com  Thu Dec 17 00:39:35 2009
From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:39:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091216140750.65dcad19@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<20091216140750.65dcad19@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <mailman.811.1261006789.2867.baypiggies@python.org>

At 02:07 PM 12/16/2009, Keith Dart wrote:
>If you were sitting in the front row, then yes. :-)

You were sitting directly behind me?  Yes, I am glad to meet you and 
connect name/face.

>That's exactly what I had in mind.

We seemed to be agreeing a lot. 


From hjtoi at comcast.net  Thu Dec 17 04:43:15 2009
From: hjtoi at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:43:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Password management
In-Reply-To: <20091216162446.GA17466@panix.com>
References: <4B286BA9.8040405@comcast.net> <20091216162446.GA17466@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B29A8D3.2070205@comcast.net>

Aahz wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009, Heikki Toivonen wrote:
>> http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/blog/2009/02/05/my-little-secret/
> 
> Nice!  But how do you safely store the master password for completely
> automated encryption/decryption?

My use case was a deployment script that I would run manually once there
was something I needed to push to the servers. So I typed in the master
password at that time. The passwords were the passwords needed to login
to the various servers.

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net

From hjtoi at comcast.net  Thu Dec 17 05:14:02 2009
From: hjtoi at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:14:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <4B2921E5.6030404@noir.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>
	<4B2867EF.4080100@comcast.net> <4B2921E5.6030404@noir.com>
Message-ID: <4B29B00A.4050208@comcast.net>

K. Richard Pixley wrote:
> Heikki Toivonen wrote:
>> But I do agree that for the majority of applications "browser-based" is
>> the future. I would in fact argue that that has been the case for
>> several years already. I see mobile devices currently bucking that
>> trend, but as devices get more powerful and (mobile) browsers more
>> capable, mobile applications will go the way of the desktop applications.
>>   
> I don't think they will.

I see that as inevitable development. Someone already pointed out
features of HTML 5 and Google Native Client. There's also websocket,
canvas tag, WebGL(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL), SVG and so on.
CSS keeps adding features. JavaScript is getting faster and faster.
Bandwidth is slowly improving. The browser will also be able to cache a
complete web based application locally (might be able to do already,
haven't really kept up with this) so that you can use it even without
network connection after the initial download.

Given all that you could already code a standards compliant (if not yet
standard then using emerging standard) 3D first person shooter game that
looks and performs reasonably well. It wouldn't be able to compete with
native desktop apps yet, but in a few years we'll probably start seeing
fully browser-based games that look and feel similar to what desktop
games do now.

I think Bespin(https://bespin.mozilla.com/) is a good indication of what
will happen. An "emacs clone" in the browser done in within a canvas
tag. Here's an example of a game done in WebGL:
http://blogs.nitobi.com/yohei/2009/11/06/cube-defense-webgl-td-game/

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net

From rich at noir.com  Thu Dec 17 18:18:09 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:18:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0912161116mc6d1c6frd03fa90e8f946329@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz> <4B291F62.1020705@noir.com>
	<55dc209b0912161116mc6d1c6frd03fa90e8f946329@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2A67D1.4090002@noir.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:56 AM, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com> wrote:
>    ...
>   
>> mobile devices.  Witness any embedded applications.  Witness the fact that
>> web based interfaces are only working on the big name general purpose OS's.
>>     
>
> The Palm Pre and Chrome OS are "big name general purpose OS's"?!  Wow
> -- I must tell my friends in the Chrome OS team and those working at
> Palm (both of the groups still labor under the impression that they're
> still-small, if growing, niches, so these news will definitely make
> their day).
Palm apps aren't really "web apps", they're WebOs apps.

They aren't general purpose apps in the sense of being able to run on 
any general purpose web browser.  They're very specifically designed 
only to run in a WebOs environment.  They require feature support that 
isn't generally available and make environment assumptions that aren't 
generally true.

It is true that they are written in a variant of javascript and paint 
their pixels through a variant of webkit.  So they are indeed based on 
familiar technology, but they are not web apps in the sense that we 
generally think of.

--rich
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From rich at noir.com  Thu Dec 17 18:23:45 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:23:45 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] native GUI vs. web browser
In-Reply-To: <20091216192814.GA20330@panix.com>
References: <20091215190131.4c794127@dartworks.biz>	<200912161727.nBGHRZEm064786@millennium.millenniumresearch.net>	<8249c4ac0912160932r47b82773v9b5bff1c3ceadb3a@mail.gmail.com>	<20091216175510.GB10457@panix.com>
	<4B2924B7.1030202@noir.com> <20091216192814.GA20330@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B2A6921.50603@noir.com>

Aahz wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
>   
>> Aahz wrote:
>>     
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>>>       
>>>>   
>>>> How can an app based on the Windows API be portable to any other OS?
>>>>         
>>>     
>>> You isolate the OS-specific sections of code -- very few apps require
>>> OS-specific features top-to-bottom.
>>>       
>>   
>> I think that depends on how we count.
>>
>> If we include, say, strict user interface requirements, as is often the  
>> case on macintosh, then the number goes way up.
>>     
> But then we're no longer talking about an app where the UI is
> browser-based, which was the subject of this sub-thread.  And even if we
> are talking about a true desktop app, my stricture about top-to-bottom
> still applies, most likely.
>   
My understanding, and the subject line, say that we're comparing web 
based apps to native apps and the relative current and future needs for 
each.

My point was simply that if we intend to access machine specific 
features, which might well include a very specific user interface, then 
the number of apps requiring access to "os-specific" features rises 
considerably.

For example, you won't see anything like Aperture or Final Cut Pro on a 
web app any time soon.  Part of that has to do with bandwidth, but part 
of it has to do with interface.  You won't see anything like the real 
time digital scoring programs, or Pages, or Numbers in a web interface 
any time soon either, and the bandwidth for those is doable today.

--rich

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 09:38:26 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:38:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon Financial Aid deadline Fri 12/18
Message-ID: <78b3a9580912180038x18f809e0q55f0ed4f4ed3b9cd@mail.gmail.com>

if you still wish to attend PyCon in Atlanta coming up in Feb but
can't afford the entire trip, tomorrow is the deadline to apply for
financial aid: http://us.pycon.org/2010/registration/financial-aid/
(thx for the reminder anna!)

hope to see some of you guys there!
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
    http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From ken.barclay at att.net  Sat Dec 19 04:39:30 2009
From: ken.barclay at att.net (ken barclay)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:39:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
Message-ID: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of files that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over the file-like object that comes back in the response:

??????? import urllib2
??????? req = urllib2.Request(href)
??????? response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
??????? for line in response:
??????? print line

But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do in the file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar data.) The problem is: this approach doesn't work because the first 'print' is printing out the whole response in one big stream (ignoring newlines).

I tried the other techniques at http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html still get the same result. Suggestions?

Thanks
Ken
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From voidref at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 04:45:28 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:45:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912181945i6e07f583m3c00e0b9438d79ee@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe wrap the output in <pre> tag?

If what you are saying is true, and the first print is printing out
everything, maybe the line should be

for line in response.lines()

Alan

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:39 PM, ken barclay <ken.barclay at att.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of files
> that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over the
> file-like object that comes back in the response:
>
>         import urllib2
>         req = urllib2.Request(href)
>         response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
>         for line in response:
>         print line
>
> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do in the
> file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar data.) The problem
> is: this approach doesn't work because the first 'print' is printing out the
> whole response in one big stream (ignoring newlines).
>
> I tried the other techniques at
> http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html still get the same result.
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From bpederse at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 04:48:37 2009
From: bpederse at gmail.com (Brent Pedersen)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:48:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e183a99d0912181948j2d868467k43dee3b851808162@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:39 PM, ken barclay <ken.barclay at att.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of files that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over the file-like object that comes back in the response:
>
> ??????? import urllib2
> ??????? req = urllib2.Request(href)
> ??????? response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
> ??????? for line in response:
> ??????? print line
>
> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do in the file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar data.) The problem is: this approach doesn't work because the first 'print' is printing out the whole response in one big stream (ignoring newlines).
>
> I tried the other techniques at http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html still get the same result. Suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> Ken


does your html source actually have newlines? this works for me:
    >>> import urllib2
    >>> href = "http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html"
    >>> req = urllib2.Request(href)
    >>> response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
    >>> sum(1 for line in response)
    1032





>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Dec 19 17:22:10 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091219162209.GA4499@panix.com>

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009, ken barclay wrote:
>
> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of
> files that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over
> the file-like object that comes back in the response:
>
> ??????? import urllib2
> ??????? req = urllib2.Request(href)
> ??????? response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
> ??????? for line in response:
> ??????? print line
> 
> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do
> in the file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar
> data.) The problem is: this approach doesn't work because the first
> 'print' is printing out the whole response in one big stream (ignoring
> newlines).

What OS are you on?  You are probably running into newline variations,
and I'm not sure whether you can set universal newlines on an
already-opened file.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From ken.barclay at att.net  Sat Dec 19 19:40:59 2009
From: ken.barclay at att.net (ken barclay)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:40:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <20091219162209.GA4499@panix.com>
Message-ID: <279120.29497.qm@web180703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I'm running the backend on a Centos box.

I do have a workaround but it requires an extra step from the user - I just print out the url on the output page, and when the user clicks the link, the browser takes care of loading the file into the browser and it looks exactly like it does in the file.

Would be nice to avoid that step but it's not critical - Thanks Aahz.

--- On Sat, 12/19/09, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
To: baypiggies at python.org
Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 4:22 PM

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009, ken barclay wrote:
>
> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of
> files that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over
> the file-like object that comes back in the response:
>
> ??????? import urllib2
> ??????? req = urllib2.Request(href)
> ??????? response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
> ??????? for line in response:
> ??????? print line
> 
> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do
> in the file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar
> data.) The problem is: this approach doesn't work because the first
> 'print' is printing out the whole response in one big stream (ignoring
> newlines).

What OS are you on?? You are probably running into newline variations,
and I'm not sure whether you can set universal newlines on an
already-opened file.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)? ? ? ? ???<*>? ? ? ???http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Dec 19 20:59:50 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:59:50 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <279120.29497.qm@web180703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <20091219162209.GA4499@panix.com>
	<279120.29497.qm@web180703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091219195949.GA26797@panix.com>

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009, ken barclay wrote:
>
> I'm running the backend on a Centos box.
> 
> I do have a workaround but it requires an extra step from the user -
> I just print out the url on the output page, and when the user clicks
> the link, the browser takes care of loading the file into the browser
> and it looks exactly like it does in the file.

The question is, what OS are you running urlopen() on?  I bet that it's
Windows.  In which case the simple solution is to split() the data on
'\n' and then iterate over the lines.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From puruiw at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 22:48:31 2009
From: puruiw at yahoo.com (Purui Wang)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:48:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <279120.29497.qm@web180703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <279120.29497.qm@web180703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <951682.78777.qm@web45013.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

some samples here
http://nullege.com/codes/search?cq=urllib.request.urlopen

- Purui




________________________________
From: ken barclay <ken.barclay at att.net>
To: baypiggies at python.org
Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 10:40:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line


I'm running the backend on a Centos box.

I do have a workaround but it requires an extra step from the user - I just print out the url on the output page, and when the user clicks the link, the browser takes care of loading the file into the browser and it looks exactly like it does in the file.

Would be nice to avoid that step but it's not critical - Thanks Aahz.

--- On Sat, 12/19/09, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:


>From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
>Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
>To: baypiggies at python.org
>Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 4:22 PM
>
>
>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009, ken barclay wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to do
> something simple - I want to print the contents of
>> files that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over
>> the file-like object that comes back in the response:
>>
>> ??????? import urllib2
>> ??????? req = urllib2.Request(href)
>> ??????? response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
>> ??????? for line in response:
>> ??????? print line
>> 
>> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do
>> in the file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar
>> data.) The problem is: this approach doesn't work because the first
>> 'print' is printing out the whole response in one big stream (ignoring
>> newlines).
>
>What OS are you on?  You are probably running into newline variations,
>and I'm not sure whether you can set universal newlines on an
>already-opened file.
>-- 
>Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
>Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
>never really had enjoyed programming before.
>_______________________________________________
>Baypiggies mailing list
>Baypiggies at python.org
>To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 
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From adam at hupp.org  Sun Dec 20 02:41:42 2009
From: adam at hupp.org (Adam Hupp)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:41:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <766a29bd0912191741s7ea3918u2d3778a118895b5a@mail.gmail.com>

HTML will not generally display embedded newlines in text.  Alans's
suggestion of wrapping the output in <pre> is good, or you could do
something like:

response.read().split("\n").join("<br/>")

to insert HTML linebreaks.  If the data is truly columnar though a <table>
would be most appropriate, though that would be slightly more complicated.

-Adam

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:39 PM, ken barclay <ken.barclay at att.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of files
> that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over the
> file-like object that comes back in the response:
>
>         import urllib2
>         req = urllib2.Request(href)
>         response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
>         for line in response:
>         print line
>
> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do in the
> file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar data.) The problem
> is: this approach doesn't work because the first 'print' is printing out the
> whole response in one big stream (ignoring newlines).
>
> I tried the other techniques at
> http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html still get the same result.
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Adam Hupp | http://hupp.org/adam/
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From voidref at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 04:19:53 2009
From: voidref at gmail.com (Alan Westbrook)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:19:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Audio for wxWidgets Presentation
Message-ID: <5df1e9b00912191919r1f0cf489tfb30ebe4deed8dea@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all.

The video didn't really come out well, could not read any of the code on the
screen, it was over exposed.

The video is also quite large, the talk was about 120 minutes.

But I did get audio, had to boost levels and run a compressor on it to make
it audible though, so much for ambient mics, eh?

Get it here! It's 43 megs.

http://www.alanwestbrook.com/bp/BayPiggies-wxWidgets.mp3

Alan
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From jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 05:59:41 2009
From: jeremy.r.fishman at gmail.com (Jeremy Fishman)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 20:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using urllib2 to print file contents line-by-line
In-Reply-To: <766a29bd0912191741s7ea3918u2d3778a118895b5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <471773.69752.qm@web180712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<766a29bd0912191741s7ea3918u2d3778a118895b5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f7713e30912192059o2b0def82raf4ee79776dc8d53@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you're rendering an http response in a
browser as text, why not set the Content-Type to text/plain?

  - Jeremy

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Adam Hupp <adam at hupp.org> wrote:

> HTML will not generally display embedded newlines in text.  Alans's
> suggestion of wrapping the output in <pre> is good, or you could do
> something like:
>
> response.read().split("\n").join("<br/>")
>
> to insert HTML linebreaks.  If the data is truly columnar though a <table>
> would be most appropriate, though that would be slightly more complicated.
>
> -Adam
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:39 PM, ken barclay <ken.barclay at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm trying to do something simple - I want to print the contents of files
>> that are staged on a web server back to the browser. I loop over the
>> file-like object that comes back in the response:
>>
>>         import urllib2
>>         req = urllib2.Request(href)
>>         response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
>>         for line in response:
>>         print line
>>
>> But I want the lines to appear in the browser exactly like they do in the
>> file - with each one on a new line (because it's columnar data.) The problem
>> is: this approach doesn't work because the first 'print' is printing out the
>> whole response in one big stream (ignoring newlines).
>>
>> I tried the other techniques at
>> http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html still get the same result.
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ken
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Adam Hupp | http://hupp.org/adam/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From tony at tcapp.com  Sun Dec 20 06:44:47 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:44:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Audio for wxWidgets Presentation
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912191919r1f0cf489tfb30ebe4deed8dea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00912191919r1f0cf489tfb30ebe4deed8dea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912192144v2b4dccdbsaa0312036f731793@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for doing the A/V Alan

Sorry- I have not submitted by slides & sources yet.
Will do that soon.


On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Alan Westbrook <voidref at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all.
>
> The video didn't really come out well, could not read any of the code on
> the screen, it was over exposed.
>
> The video is also quite large, the talk was about 120 minutes.
>
> But I did get audio, had to boost levels and run a compressor on it to make
> it audible though, so much for ambient mics, eh?
>
> Get it here! It's 43 megs.
>
> http://www.alanwestbrook.com/bp/BayPiggies-wxWidgets.mp3
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 07:08:42 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:08:42 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Audio for wxWidgets Presentation
In-Reply-To: <5df1e9b00912191919r1f0cf489tfb30ebe4deed8dea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5df1e9b00912191919r1f0cf489tfb30ebe4deed8dea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200912192208.42242.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Saturday 19 December 2009 19:19:53 Alan Westbrook wrote:
> Hey all.
> Get it here! It's 43 megs.
> 
> http://www.alanwestbrook.com/bp/BayPiggies-wxWidgets.mp3

Thank you Alan!

----
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity." -- 
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sun Dec 20 21:29:19 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:29:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
Message-ID: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>

This may be only marginally relevant to Python programmers. However, since
we have a good deal of open source developers here, this may still be of
interest:

What's interesting is that having Open Source Software is a poo-poo for some
business deals (it can reduce the value of the company/deal):

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=99355BB0-1A64-6A71-CEE6D933989C9C29

Personally, I don't care. I believe in Open Source and I feel that companies
should already have this management in place, regardless. However, it's
interesting to know how the GPL can affect a business deal, for example.

Cheers,


Glen
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From jsnitow at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 02:22:18 2009
From: jsnitow at gmail.com (Julian Snitow)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:22:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
In-Reply-To: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>
> This may be only?marginally?relevant?to Python programmers. However, since we have a good deal of open source developers here, this may still be of interest:
>
> What's interesting is that having Open Source Software is a poo-poo for some business deals (it can reduce the value of the company/deal):
>
> http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=99355BB0-1A64-6A71-CEE6D933989C9C29
>

The bottom of the article reveals this charming bit of biographical
trivia about the authors: ?"Mark H. Wittow and Jessica C. Pearlman are
partners in the Seattle office of the law firm K&L Gates."

Of course, that could hardly be relevant to this discussion, and so I
must apologize for straying so very, very far off-topic...

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Dec 21 05:36:58 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:36:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to	Companies
In-Reply-To: <54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009, Julian Snitow wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>>
>> This may be only marginally relevant to Python programmers. However,
>> since we have a good deal of open source developers here, this may
>> still be of interest:
>>
>> What's interesting is that having Open Source Software is a
>> poo-poo for some business deals (it can reduce the value of the
>> company/deal):
>>
>> http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=99355BB0-1A64-6A71-CEE6D933989C9C29
>
> The bottom of the article reveals this charming bit of biographical
> trivia about the authors: "Mark H. Wittow and Jessica C. Pearlman are
> partners in the Seattle office of the law firm K&L Gates."
>
> Of course, that could hardly be relevant to this discussion, and so I
> must apologize for straying so very, very far off-topic...

Actually, to the extent that Glen's original post was on-topic, your
response was entirely on-topic, and you saved me the trouble of making a
similar comment.

For anyone didn't understand the gist of Julian's comment: the father of
Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft, is a lawyer and founding partner at
K&L Gates.  IOW, that is almost certainly a shill piece for Microsoft.

Despite the recent embrace of Python and Open Source by Microsoft as
represented by IronPython, I think that those of us who care about Python
and Open Source should keep a wary eye on Microsoft.  And now I'll go
back to making my product run under Windows.  :-/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Mon Dec 21 15:03:13 2009
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:03:13 +0100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to	Companies
In-Reply-To: <20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
Message-ID: <656F3B4D-B44D-4736-A3F0-23B4D635323E@dalkescientific.com>

On Dec 21, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Aahz wrote:
> Despite the recent embrace of Python and Open Source by Microsoft as
> represented by IronPython,

As a reminder of history, Microsoft shipped a product based on Python in 1996

  http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-ships-python-code-in-1996.html

though I don't think that was much of an embrace.

Historically Microsoft hasn't had a problem with open source licenses like BSD, it's with free software licenses like the GPL. See for example

  http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/6/19/05641/7357


				Andrew
				dalke at dalkescientific.com



From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Dec 21 17:04:31 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to	Companies
In-Reply-To: <656F3B4D-B44D-4736-A3F0-23B4D635323E@dalkescientific.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
	<656F3B4D-B44D-4736-A3F0-23B4D635323E@dalkescientific.com>
Message-ID: <0AF801DD-4582-4D1F-A0C0-79C56EAF0012@glenjarvis.com>

Thanks, Andrew. Both articles were very interesting. I wish I were  
involved with python 15 years ago. Alas, I hadn't even heard of it  
until 2006 :(

Glen

On Dec 21, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Andrew Dalke <dalke at dalkescientific.com>  
wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Aahz wrote:
>> Despite the recent embrace of Python and Open Source by Microsoft as
>> represented by IronPython,
>
> As a reminder of history, Microsoft shipped a product based on  
> Python in 1996
>
>  http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/microsoft-ships-python-code-in-1996.html
>
> though I don't think that was much of an embrace.
>
> Historically Microsoft hasn't had a problem with open source  
> licenses like BSD, it's with free software licenses like the GPL.  
> See for example
>
>  http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/6/19/05641/7357
>
>
>                Andrew
>                dalke at dalkescientific.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon Dec 21 20:45:05 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:45:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
In-Reply-To: <20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
Message-ID: <d1de3b720912211145w8943e72j899b8e82ad0ed718@mail.gmail.com>

>
> For anyone didn't understand the gist of Julian's comment: the father of
> Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft, is a lawyer and founding partner at
> K&L Gates.  IOW, that is almost certainly a shill piece for Microsoft.
>
> Despite the recent embrace of Python and Open Source by Microsoft as
> represented by IronPython, I think that those of us who care about Python
> and Open Source should keep a wary eye on Microsoft.  And now I'll go
> back to making my product run under Windows.  :-/


I actually did not know first that it came from K&L Gates law firm, nor the
significance. So, thank both of you for pointing this out. This "came across
my desk" because of a mention of Chrome. And I have a Google Alert for
Chrome.

I took this as a general feel for business across many companies (not
necessarily even tech companies) -- not something specific from a very
pro-Microsoft company. Now I know better...

And knowing is half the battle...


Glen
:)
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From rich at noir.com  Mon Dec 21 21:52:57 2009
From: rich at noir.com (K. Richard Pixley)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:52:57 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
In-Reply-To: <d1de3b720912211145w8943e72j899b8e82ad0ed718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>	<20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
	<d1de3b720912211145w8943e72j899b8e82ad0ed718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2FE029.2010707@noir.com>

The info in the article is only scary to people who are ignorant of the 
issues.  The rules for regular corporate intellectual property are no 
less complicated - more so, rather.  All they're really saying is that 
if you've never used open source software commercially, then you may 
have a learning curve because you may actually have to read a few licenses.

Nothing in the article is news or even threatening to people who are 
already in business using open source.  The article doesn't really even 
speak to them.

(I didn't know about Gates' father either - thanks for the info.)

--rich (open source professional for nearly 20 years - first employee of 
the first commercial company founded on open source principles)

From kenobi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 22:11:56 2009
From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:11:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
In-Reply-To: <4B2FE029.2010707@noir.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091221043658.GA359@panix.com>
	<d1de3b720912211145w8943e72j899b8e82ad0ed718@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2FE029.2010707@noir.com>
Message-ID: <f0aa69930912211311j7d20ccbie73175c75f9dd1e3@mail.gmail.com>

I would agree there are no surprises in the article for people doing
open source work.  What did surprise me was that there are specific
court decisions showing the enforceability of open source licenses.

In recently years, I've had the opportunity to: (1) work with lawyers
on some open source prep, and (2) talk with people studying
acquisition issues in COTS ("commercial off-the-shelf" in military or
government parlance) software.  I've come to the conclusion that there
is very little difference between incorporating open source vs other
third-party proprietary code into a product.  You need to establish
ownership, and understand the terms of the license and what it
obligates you to do.  How much due diligence is applied to this seems
to vary widely from one firm to the next.

How different is incorporating open source vs purchasing proprietary
DLLs off of Programmer's Paradise?  If some lawyers think certain
questions magically go away because the latter code is proprietary,
then I think they are overlooking something.

--Rick Kwan

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:52 PM, K. Richard Pixley <rich at noir.com> wrote:
> The info in the article is only scary to people who are ignorant of the
> issues. ?The rules for regular corporate intellectual property are no less
> complicated - more so, rather. ?All they're really saying is that if you've
> never used open source software commercially, then you may have a learning
> curve because you may actually have to read a few licenses.
>

From netengadmin at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 00:40:01 2009
From: netengadmin at gmail.com (Geoff White)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:40:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value
	to Companies
Message-ID: <a5eb563f0912211540u2d0cc3du30bc073f885d199a@mail.gmail.com>

What's interesting is that having Open Source Software is a poo-poo for some
business deals (it can reduce the value of the company/deal):

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=99355BB0-1A64-6A71-CEE6D933989C9C29





This article is spewing MS FUD like a fire hydrant in Brooklyn on a host
summer day :)
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From jeff at drinktomi.com  Tue Dec 22 02:06:47 2009
From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:06:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Marginally Relevant: Open Source Value to Companies
In-Reply-To: <54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912201229n4e548302n5dcab62af74b6d4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<54075e090912201722m5b8b6c75xb03898d62752d925@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD00FFE4-001F-46BC-AE2D-1A4DA3EBCB16@drinktomi.com>

On Dec 20, 2009, at 5:22 PM, Julian Snitow wrote:
> The bottom of the article reveals this charming bit of biographical
> trivia about the authors:  "Mark H. Wittow and Jessica C. Pearlman are
> partners in the Seattle office of the law firm K&L Gates."

Gates Sr. isn't known for towing his son's line.  He's a hardcore liberal,
and he doesn't seem to be is a free-marketeer.

I heard him speak during the MS anti-trust suit and he was *not* happy
about the way his boy was behaving.  He didn't bad-mouth his son, but
your could practically hear his teeth grating when a questioner brought
up the subject. It was pretty funny.

-jeff


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Dec 22 18:26:34 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:26:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] FWD: OSCON 2010 Call for Proposals Now Open
Message-ID: <20091222172634.GB3961@panix.com>

----- Forwarded message from O'Reilly Open Source Convention <conferences at post.oreilly.com> -----

> From: O'Reilly Open Source Convention <conferences at post.oreilly.com>
> To: aahz at pythoncraft.com
> Subject: Call for Proposals Now Open
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:09:02 -0800
> 
> OSCON, the O'Reilly Open Source Convention
> July 19 - 23, 2010
> Oregon Convention Center
> Portland, OR
> http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zg6ii2gsi1l6cshb1806k2apmotnacpkrk77ttgg
> 
> Faster, Freer, Smarter: Whatever your Goal, Make It Happen with Open Source
> 
> More than 2,500 experts, developers, sys admins, and hackers will meet
> up at OSCON 2010 to explore the tools, services, and platforms that
> make up the vibrant open source ecosystem. Join us!
>
> The OSCON Call for Participation is now open. If you have winning
> techniques, favorite lifesavers, war stories, productivity tips, or
> other ideas to share, we want to hear from you. We're especially on
> the look-out for ways to do more with less, design and usability
> best practices, mobile device innovations, cloud computing,
> parallelization, open standards and data, open source in government,
> business models, and beyond.
>
> Speak up about the freedom--and opportunity--of open source
> at OSCON 2010. Submit your proposal by February 1, 2010 at:
> http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zr5embktof4hi37tr30hm2qshjaug3mfrdjltsmg

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From pokorny at slide.com  Wed Dec 23 03:55:59 2009
From: pokorny at slide.com (David Pokorny)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:55:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Tools Developer - Slide.com
Message-ID: <4B3186BF.9070606@slide.com>

Hello Pythonistas,

The Slide tools team is looking for a developer with 0-3 years experience. 
Slide is a great place to work (flexible hours, enlightened management) and 
this position would be great for a smart, hard-working developer who enjoys 
building web apps to serve internal needs.

If you are interested, please apply at
http://www.jobscore.com/jobs/slide/toolsdeveloper/aLfbTA6POr3QH9eJe4aGWH
and send me (pokorny-at-slide.com) a cover letter and resume.

I am a developer on the tools team and would be happy to answer any questions 
you have about Slide.com or the position.

Thanks,
--David Pokorny

*** Check out some of our Facebook apps! ***

http://apps.facebook.com/slidepets/
http://apps.facebook.com/rockriot/
http://apps.facebook.com/superpocus/
http://apps.facebook.com/topfish/
http://apps.facebook.com/sppranch/

=============================================================================
Tools Developer at Slide in San Francisco, CA

Slide is the world's leading community-driven entertainment company. We offer 
millions of people worldwide the ability to communicate, engage and have fun 
with one another within the context of relationships they build on social 
networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace. Our users can create their own 
masterpieces with virtual jelly beans, care for their online Pets, or send 
virtual gifts to friends.
Our portfolio of products include fun applications and virtual communities 
such as Slideshow, SuperPoke!, SuperPoke! Pets, Top Friends, FunSpace, Rock 
Riot, SuperPocus: Academy of Magic and Top Fish.
Slide was founded in 2005 by PayPal co-founder Max Levchin and is backed by 
Mayfield Fund, Blue Run Ventures, Khosla Ventures and Founders Fund.

Reponsibilities:
  We are looking to add a dynamic, self-motivated software engineer to help us 
build web-based internal tools to analyze and track our site traffic and user 
behaviors. Aside from solid OOD and programming skills, this position requires 
superior written and verbal communications skills, problem solving skills, and 
ability to take ownership and work with minimum guidelines in a fast pace 
environment. This position offers excellent opportunity for growth within a 
later-stage, successful start-up, and you will be working with some of the Bay 
Area's smartest software engineers!

Requirements:
- BS in Computer Science or relevant work experience
- 0-3 years of industry experience, will consider fresh graduates with strong 
internships, co-op or open source contributions
- Strong object oriented skills to design and implement complex 
object-oriented abstractions
- Demonstrated skills in front-end web development, expertise in 
JavaScript/HTML/CSS, including familiarity with JavaScript frameworks (jQuery, 
MochiKit, YUI, Dojo, etc.), experience contributing to UI design a plus
- Experience with Python, Ruby, C++, or other object-oriented language to 
develop backend-business logic layer
- Experience writing fast SQL queries to handle large volume of data a plus
- Strong analytical and problem solving skills, attention to detail, desire to 
learn, excel, and contribute


Bonus:
- HTML, Javascript
- SQL
- Likes to build UI

From pokorny at slide.com  Wed Dec 23 05:34:15 2009
From: pokorny at slide.com (David Pokorny)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:34:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Tools Developer - Slide.com
In-Reply-To: <26d886910912221951x5e6b7b92td71a9708a90b045d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3186BF.9070606@slide.com>
	<26d886910912221951x5e6b7b92td71a9708a90b045d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B319DC7.9050903@slide.com>

Hi Badri,

This position is open to international applicants, but the job is in San 
Francisco. The name of our company is "Slide.com" as in "slideshow". We have 
slideshow apps on the social networks, but we are currently concentrating on 
interactive virtual worlds.

--David

On 12/22/09 7:51 PM, BADRI NARAYANAN wrote:
> Hi David,
>
>   Can people from other countries (I am from INDIA) apply for this Tool
> Developer job or scale.com <http://scale.com> is looking for some local
> talent within US? Clarification on this would be much appreciated since
> I am interested to apply for this offer.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> BADRI NARAYANAN.K.
>
> If at first you don't succeed, call it VERSION 1.0!
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:25 AM, David Pokorny <pokorny at slide.com
> <mailto:pokorny at slide.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello Pythonistas,
>
>     The Slide tools team is looking for a developer with 0-3 years
>     experience. Slide is a great place to work (flexible hours,
>     enlightened management) and this position would be great for a
>     smart, hard-working developer who enjoys building web apps to serve
>     internal needs.
>
>     If you are interested, please apply at
>     http://www.jobscore.com/jobs/slide/toolsdeveloper/aLfbTA6POr3QH9eJe4aGWH
>     and send me (pokorny-at-slide.com <http://pokorny-at-slide.com>) a
>     cover letter and resume.
>
>     I am a developer on the tools team and would be happy to answer any
>     questions you have about Slide.com or the position.
>
>     Thanks,
>     --David Pokorny
>
>     *** Check out some of our Facebook apps! ***
>
>     http://apps.facebook.com/slidepets/
>     http://apps.facebook.com/rockriot/
>     http://apps.facebook.com/superpocus/
>     http://apps.facebook.com/topfish/
>     http://apps.facebook.com/sppranch/
>
>     =============================================================================
>     Tools Developer at Slide in San Francisco, CA
>
>     Slide is the world's leading community-driven entertainment company.
>     We offer millions of people worldwide the ability to communicate,
>     engage and have fun with one another within the context of
>     relationships they build on social networking sites such as Facebook
>     and MySpace. Our users can create their own masterpieces with
>     virtual jelly beans, care for their online Pets, or send virtual
>     gifts to friends.
>     Our portfolio of products include fun applications and virtual
>     communities such as Slideshow, SuperPoke!, SuperPoke! Pets, Top
>     Friends, FunSpace, Rock Riot, SuperPocus: Academy of Magic and Top Fish.
>     Slide was founded in 2005 by PayPal co-founder Max Levchin and is
>     backed by Mayfield Fund, Blue Run Ventures, Khosla Ventures and
>     Founders Fund.
>
>     Reponsibilities:
>       We are looking to add a dynamic, self-motivated software engineer
>     to help us build web-based internal tools to analyze and track our
>     site traffic and user behaviors. Aside from solid OOD and
>     programming skills, this position requires superior written and
>     verbal communications skills, problem solving skills, and ability to
>     take ownership and work with minimum guidelines in a fast pace
>     environment. This position offers excellent opportunity for growth
>     within a later-stage, successful start-up, and you will be working
>     with some of the Bay Area's smartest software engineers!
>
>     Requirements:
>     - BS in Computer Science or relevant work experience
>     - 0-3 years of industry experience, will consider fresh graduates
>     with strong internships, co-op or open source contributions
>     - Strong object oriented skills to design and implement complex
>     object-oriented abstractions
>     - Demonstrated skills in front-end web development, expertise in
>     JavaScript/HTML/CSS, including familiarity with JavaScript
>     frameworks (jQuery, MochiKit, YUI, Dojo, etc.), experience
>     contributing to UI design a plus
>     - Experience with Python, Ruby, C++, or other object-oriented
>     language to develop backend-business logic layer
>     - Experience writing fast SQL queries to handle large volume of data
>     a plus
>     - Strong analytical and problem solving skills, attention to detail,
>     desire to learn, excel, and contribute
>
>
>     Bonus:
>     - HTML, Javascript
>     - SQL
>     - Likes to build UI
>     _______________________________________________
>     Baypiggies mailing list
>     Baypiggies at python.org <mailto:Baypiggies at python.org>
>     To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>


From alchaiken at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 17:56:34 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 08:56:34 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Software Freedom Law Center podcast hosts Steve Holden
	of PSF
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0912250856m50ab2956u4ac5b72ac1351645@mail.gmail.com>

Episode 0x15: Steve Holden of the Python Software Foundation
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2009/sep/01/0x15/

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                                	
    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
The weak shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights.  -- J.
Paul Getty via Peter Maass

From simeonf at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 18:02:27 2009
From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 09:02:27 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] If we had time... Face memory game app
In-Reply-To: <C2A73423-702B-40B6-9887-9E36826E45D2@glenjarvis.com>
References: <C2A73423-702B-40B6-9887-9E36826E45D2@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <e58a4bea0912250902v33d57b8fxbdc7610e038b94b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Wouldn't it be incredibly cool if we had a "face memory app" similar to this
> one:
> http://addoncon.com/
> Notice how the little memory game has faces -- what a fun way to match names
> and faces. I certainly don't have the time ?- but it was a cool enough idea
> I wanted to share.

I don't have the time either, but see http://simeonfranklin.com/game/

A few notes - I got the names/pictures by parsing emails from the
Baypiggies mail archive and harvested names and emails of everybody
who had emailed at least a few times. I looked for avatar pictures at
gravatar.com with the email address used to email baypiggies. This
yielded depressingly few hits so I filled in a few more from
stackoverflow, twitter, etc - this required manual intervention (and
that I know what you look like) so I only did a few.

I only used (very) public information but if anybody doesn't want
their picture on my little game please email me - I don't want to
intrude into anybody's privacy. If, on the other hand, you're bummed
that you aren't included just upload an avatar at gravatar (be sure to
use the email account you use for baypiggies). I'll refresh the list
in the New Year... Oh and if you have a gravatar that's not
identifiable as you feel free to email me a profile pic you'd rather
have...

Merry Christmas Baypiggies!

      "And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host
      praising God, and saying,

      Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

-best regards
Simeon Franklin

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri Dec 25 19:21:31 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:21:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] A little Holiday Cheer
Message-ID: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sending a free gift to a community that will get it...

http://bit.ly/8qL2pu


It's a little holiday cheer this morning :)

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Dec 25 19:31:06 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:31:06 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] A little Holiday Cheer
In-Reply-To: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091225183106.GA12829@panix.com>

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> 
> It's a little holiday cheer this morning :)

Bah, humbug

Which is my traditional reminder that Christmas isn't the only tradition
around.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From bender at onsrc.com  Fri Dec 25 23:46:31 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:46:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] A little Holiday Cheer
In-Reply-To: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E50E4FD4-86A1-44C7-AAAF-D7A60D14CA91@onsrc.com>

Yes, Merry Christmas Everyone!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 25, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I'm sending a free gift to a community that will get it...
>
> http://bit.ly/8qL2pu
>
>
> It's a little holiday cheer this morning :)
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
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From simeonf at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 04:56:39 2009
From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:56:39 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] A little Holiday Cheer
In-Reply-To: <20091225183106.GA12829@panix.com>
References: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091225183106.GA12829@panix.com>
Message-ID: <e58a4bea0912251956p452041ebw591f0a5394345e62@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> Bah, humbug
>
> Which is my traditional reminder that Christmas isn't the only tradition
> around.

I'm strongly appreciative of my own traditions but don't see why I
shouldn't appreciate others' as well. Whatever inspires you to feel
charitably towards others or to enjoy life a little more in this
season I'm happy to honor. Merry Winter Solstice - or whatever the
case may be - to Baypiggies everywhere!

-regards
Simeon Franklin

From tony at tcapp.com  Sat Dec 26 05:17:23 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:17:23 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] A little Holiday Cheer
In-Reply-To: <e58a4bea0912251956p452041ebw591f0a5394345e62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d1de3b720912251021n32e608a4jf23162714d691a5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091225183106.GA12829@panix.com>
	<e58a4bea0912251956p452041ebw591f0a5394345e62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912252017k20f064b9ib56baddb5246281d@mail.gmail.com>

Well said!

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Simeon Franklin <simeonf at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> > Bah, humbug
> >
> > Which is my traditional reminder that Christmas isn't the only tradition
> > around.
>
> I'm strongly appreciative of my own traditions but don't see why I
> shouldn't appreciate others' as well. Whatever inspires you to feel
> charitably towards others or to enjoy life a little more in this
> season I'm happy to honor. Merry Winter Solstice - or whatever the
> case may be - to Baypiggies everywhere!
>
> -regards
> Simeon Franklin
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat Dec 26 21:01:09 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:01:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] If we had time... Face memory game app
In-Reply-To: <e58a4bea0912250902v33d57b8fxbdc7610e038b94b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2A73423-702B-40B6-9887-9E36826E45D2@glenjarvis.com>
	<e58a4bea0912250902v33d57b8fxbdc7610e038b94b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d1de3b720912261201q604a233dle3f4793b19cf024f@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I don't have the time either, but see http://simeonfranklin.com/game/
>

That's freakin' awesome! :)   There were a few faces I didn't know and it
was good practice for me to match them up.

That pic of mine was from my college ID..now a few years old  :)  Here' s a
new one grabbed from a candid photo-- it works for now :)
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From eric at ericwalstad.com  Sun Dec 27 03:50:40 2009
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:50:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] If we had time... Face memory game app
In-Reply-To: <e58a4bea0912250902v33d57b8fxbdc7610e038b94b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2A73423-702B-40B6-9887-9E36826E45D2@glenjarvis.com>
	<e58a4bea0912250902v33d57b8fxbdc7610e038b94b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20912261850i57b27967v88dbecf778677c8@mail.gmail.com>

Nice work, Simeon.
Eric.

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Simeon Franklin <simeonf at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>> Wouldn't it be incredibly cool if we had a "face memory app" similar to this
>> one:
>> http://addoncon.com/
>> Notice how the little memory game has faces -- what a fun way to match names
>> and faces. I certainly don't have the time ?- but it was a cool enough idea
>> I wanted to share.
>
> I don't have the time either, but see http://simeonfranklin.com/game/
>
> A few notes - I got the names/pictures by parsing emails from the
> Baypiggies mail archive and harvested names and emails of everybody
> who had emailed at least a few times. I looked for avatar pictures at
> gravatar.com with the email address used to email baypiggies. This
> yielded depressingly few hits so I filled in a few more from
> stackoverflow, twitter, etc - this required manual intervention (and
> that I know what you look like) so I only did a few.
>
> I only used (very) public information but if anybody doesn't want
> their picture on my little game please email me - I don't want to
> intrude into anybody's privacy. If, on the other hand, you're bummed
> that you aren't included just upload an avatar at gravatar (be sure to
> use the email account you use for baypiggies). I'll refresh the list
> in the New Year... Oh and if you have a gravatar that's not
> identifiable as you feel free to email me a profile pic you'd rather
> have...
>
> Merry Christmas Baypiggies!
>
> ? ? ?"And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host
> ? ? ?praising God, and saying,
>
> ? ? ?Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
>
> -best regards
> Simeon Franklin

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Dec 27 04:10:40 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:10:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google
	Account	temporarily disabled ?
In-Reply-To: <21268.1260902081@parc.com>
References: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B270525.1060608@ulmcnett.com> <21268.1260902081@parc.com>
Message-ID: <20091227031040.GA29398@panix.com>

[responding late]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009, Bill Janssen wrote:
> Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Ouch. Stories like this make me feel vindicated that I frequently
>> argue against my clients moving their services into 'the cloud'. Sure
>> I have a gmail account, and it's never let me down, but I'm not going
>> to rely on it.
> 
> Well, there are clouds and clouds.  Let's not confuse a free
> you-get-what-you-pay-for cloud with a bought-with-a-contract cloud;
> the latter can have penalty clauses to protect customers.

Penalty clauses do little good when the FBI seizes the company's
servers.  Or the company has just gone bankrupt.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
never really had enjoyed programming before.

From bender at onsrc.com  Sun Dec 27 07:43:14 2009
From: bender at onsrc.com (RYAN DELUCCHI)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:43:14 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OT] Anyone ever have their Google
	Account	temporarily disabled ?
In-Reply-To: <20091227031040.GA29398@panix.com>
References: <8CC426FC5D89908-A690-BEA0@webmail-m083.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B270525.1060608@ulmcnett.com> <21268.1260902081@parc.com>
	<20091227031040.GA29398@panix.com>
Message-ID: <0FCCAEDD-9C0C-4085-B9B2-4F9E89F9598B@onsrc.com>

+1 ... Good point

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 26, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> [responding late]
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009, Bill Janssen wrote:
>> Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ouch. Stories like this make me feel vindicated that I frequently
>>> argue against my clients moving their services into 'the cloud'.  
>>> Sure
>>> I have a gmail account, and it's never let me down, but I'm not  
>>> going
>>> to rely on it.
>>
>> Well, there are clouds and clouds.  Let's not confuse a free
>> you-get-what-you-pay-for cloud with a bought-with-a-contract cloud;
>> the latter can have penalty clauses to protect customers.
>
> Penalty clauses do little good when the FBI seizes the company's
> servers.  Or the company has just gone bankrupt.
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> Looking back over the years, after I learned Python I realized that I
> never really had enjoyed programming before.
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From ideamonk at gmail.com  Mon Dec 28 00:45:34 2009
From: ideamonk at gmail.com (Abhishek Mishra)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:15:34 +0530
Subject: [Baypiggies] Pywebsocket an Ajax overhaul
Message-ID: <64160c70912271545y89935cfo1f1cd4677a7ce6dd@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Glen,

I believe its gonna solve many problems, bring real time web close to
us and en up simplifying the way we develop webapps today.
Just an app I made - http://ideamonk.madetokill.com/bakabot/
Using pywebsocket http://code.google.com/p/pywebsocket/
you can easily start writing websocket based apps and test out on
latest builds of chrome.
Websockets support in firefox, chrome, opera etc, is in my wishllist
for the year to come.
Yes, helps us avoind XHR, Comet, poor ajaxpolling etc...
As of now bakabot has a very poor architecture, adding lot of load to
the server... I'm thinking of optimizing it more..

Cheers,
Abhishek


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like we're about to get an overhaul of Ajax.

Anyone familiar with the server communication that enables web sockets
and helps us avoid xhtmlrequests?

If you are, I am open to a talk on it..

Cheers,


Glen

From alecf at flett.org  Mon Dec 28 05:20:37 2009
From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:20:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Pywebsocket an Ajax overhaul
In-Reply-To: <64160c70912271545y89935cfo1f1cd4677a7ce6dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64160c70912271545y89935cfo1f1cd4677a7ce6dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c78d65270912272020k486980d3u78f5dd92d7751583@mail.gmail.com>

Gah, is there any way to do this without mod_python? I've so moved on from
that ancient beast :) Seems like this could be done as an extension to
mod_wsgi (though perhaps that means it would have to be in C...) I'd be
interested to get graham dumpleton's take on this.

Alec

On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Abhishek Mishra <ideamonk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Glen,
>
> I believe its gonna solve many problems, bring real time web close to
> us and en up simplifying the way we develop webapps today.
> Just an app I made - http://ideamonk.madetokill.com/bakabot/
> Using pywebsocket http://code.google.com/p/pywebsocket/
> you can easily start writing websocket based apps and test out on
> latest builds of chrome.
> Websockets support in firefox, chrome, opera etc, is in my wishllist
> for the year to come.
> Yes, helps us avoind XHR, Comet, poor ajaxpolling etc...
> As of now bakabot has a very poor architecture, adding lot of load to
> the server... I'm thinking of optimizing it more..
>
> Cheers,
> Abhishek
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It looks like we're about to get an overhaul of Ajax.
>
> Anyone familiar with the server communication that enables web sockets
> and helps us avoid xhtmlrequests?
>
> If you are, I am open to a talk on it..
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Glen
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Thu Dec 31 00:52:48 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:52:48 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] IronPython 2.6 is out
Message-ID: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>


In case you missed it, IronPython 2.6 has been officially released. 



-- Keith Dart

-- 
-- --------------------
Keith Dart
<keith at dartworks.biz>
=======================

From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Dec 31 02:13:22 2009
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:13:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Configuration file module choices
Message-ID: <4B3BFAB2.7060103@kanga.nu>

I've been reading about the semi-shootout around configparse 
(http://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout), much of which heads 
right where I need to go (nested sections, human processable flat-text 
etc).  Is there any sign or suggestion of a winner yet?

-- JCL

From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 03:31:52 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:31:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] IronPython 2.6 is out
In-Reply-To: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580912301831w23e54637se1c6b28f6fa8e2@mail.gmail.com>

> In case you missed it, IronPython 2.6 has been officially released.

in case you're websearch-challenged: http://ironpython.net

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
    http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From tony at tcapp.com  Thu Dec 31 05:47:05 2009
From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:47:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] IronPython 2.6 is out
In-Reply-To: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>
References: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0912302047udc93c58h107e93341cb9f8d8@mail.gmail.com>

I realize BayPiggies is predominantly comprised of Linux users, but are of
you using I-Py regularly, and would like to give a presentation?


On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:

>
> In case you missed it, IronPython 2.6 has been officially released.
>
>
>
> -- Keith Dart
>
> --
> -- --------------------
> Keith Dart
> <keith at dartworks.biz>
> =======================
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
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From keith at dartworks.biz  Thu Dec 31 18:14:15 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:14:15 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] IronPython 2.6 is out
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0912302047udc93c58h107e93341cb9f8d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091230155248.623c2489@dartworks.biz>
	<8249c4ac0912302047udc93c58h107e93341cb9f8d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091231091415.5e5dccad@dartworks.biz>

=== On Wed, 12/30, Tony Cappellini wrote: ===
> I realize BayPiggies is predominantly comprised of Linux users, but
> are of you using I-Py regularly, and would like to give a
> presentation?
===

IronPython does run on mono on Linux. ;-) 

But I'm just learning it myself, so I don't think I could give a
presentation yet.



-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================