From donnamsnow at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 21:29:47 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:29:47 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Mailing list for possible collective/cooperative Message-ID: Hi, I've created a private mailing list (thank you William Deegan for the idea) for those who are interested in participating in discussions for a possible collective/cooperative. I still need to determine which is the appropriate term for this concept but we can hash that out on the mailing list. Please email me offlist and let me know you want an invite and we will start discussions. Cut off for joining this list is Friday. I will be closing the list (no more invites) for awhile just so we can get to know each other and build on this idea. We are planning a face-to-face meeting in the near future to brainstorm and get the ball rolling. Even if you are not in this area but are interested, don't let that stop you, we will try to schedule irc chats and do most of our collaborating via the mailing list. We will probably have to limit how many participate in the cooperative, but that doesn't mean we can't have multiple coops or collectives. If you emailed me this past weekend I will try to get back to you in the next day or so. Lots of interesting follow up and I read everyones responses :-) Thanks again guys/gals Best Regards, Donna M Snow, Principal C Squared Enteprises illuminating your path to Open Source http://www.csquaredtech.com* * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john_re at fastmail.us Tue Feb 3 14:44:43 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:44:43 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BerkeleyTIP Feb 7 Sat Global Meeting - Ekiga3, Asterisk, KDE, GPGPU, Debian Edu, GStreamer Message-ID: <1233668683.4725.1298262679@webmail.messagingengine.com> ** Great talks this meeting: (live & on video) ** Ekiga3, Asterisk, GPGPU, GStreamer, Debian Edu, HowTo Present KDE at meetings http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ Join from anywhere via VOIP conference, with the friendly, educational, productive, BerkeleyTIP people. :) Join the #berkeleytip freenode.net IRC channel for help getting your VOIP working. http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip Or, come to the UC Berkeley physical meeting location. Programming Party: Whatever you want to work on, or group VOIP technology. ===================================================================== ***** FEB 7 SCHEDULE (California PacificStandardTime = -8h GMT) ***** Time Activity & Talks ---- ------------------------------------- 10 A Setup. Installfest begin. IRC & VOIP online 11 Ekiga 3 VOIP HowTo - Live 12 N Asterisk Free Software Telephone System 1 P " 2 GPGPU - General Purpose computing w/ Graphics Processing Units 3 " 4 Debian Edu - 100% in main 5 GStreamer Multimedia Framework 6 HowTo Rock the Show with KDE 630 - Cleanup [Adjust for your local time: 10AM - 6:30PM PST = 1PM - 9:30PM Eastern = 6PM - 2:30AM GMT] ----- Ekiga 3 VOIP HowTo Install - 1h Live - Most distros only have version 2 The Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy - 1h23m http://nylug.org/meetings/index.shtml?20081000 GPGPU - General Purpose GPUs - John Stone - 1h43m http://www.archive.org/details/clug-28-10-2008-gpu-computing Debian Edu 100% in main - Holger Levsen - 1h https://penta.debconf.org/dc8_schedule/events/286.en.html GStreamer Multimedia Framework - Richard Spiers - 42m http://www.archive.org/details/clug-30-09-2008-gstreamer How to rock the show with KDE - Lydia Pintscher - 30m http://akademy.kde.org/conference/presentation/42.php - "How to present the KDE project at a conference." ** Download the talk videos you want to see the day _before_ the meeting, so your internet connection is free to do VOIP, & not consumed with the video download. :) ===================================================================== ===== JOIN THE BERKELEY-TIP MAILING LIST Join the mailing list, say "Hi", & introduce yourself, or just follow the discussions. Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page. http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal ===================================================================== ===== UC BERKELEY LOCATION DETAILS == We'll probably be meeting at the FreeSpeech Cafe at Moffitt Undergrad Library, as usual. See the BTIP web site for the map link & directions, important things to bring, & any last minute details/changes. ***** BRING VOIP HEADSET-MICROPHONE !!!!! :) ***** I'd like to minimize use of laptop speakers audio output, because that creates possible feedback problems into other users microphone inputs. == Please RSVP if > 50% probability you'll attend Berkeley location Please _do_ come even if you haven't RSVP'd. :) The RSVPs just ensure we can plan ahead to have enough of any necessary facilities for everyone. RSVP's are not necessary, but are appreciated. Thanks. :) RSVP either directly to my email address, or to the BTIP mailing list. ===================================================================== ===== EDUCATIONAL OUTREACH - SPRING 2009 - COLLEGES & UNIVERSITIES Join our effort to bring the BerkeleyTIP monthly meetings to local in-person gatherings at Colleges & Universities everywhere. :) You are encouraged to do any of these you want to: 1) Organize a local meeting at a college or university. - A WIFI cafe, or classroom, is a great place to meet. :) 2) Invite attendees by email - you can forward, and add to, this email. 3) Put up meeting announcement posters where appropriate - - see the BTIP site for the current poster 8.5x11 inch ODF file. DO: Join the BTIP mailing list & let's discuss & share ideas about how to make this a success. :) ===================================================================== ===== RECORD YOUR LOCAL MEETINGS' TALKS It's easy. Bring a video camera, tripod, lapel pin microphone, & microphone cable. Or, just put your camera within about 5-10 feet from the speaker. Put your video online - the internet archive is a great place. Be sure to send me a link. :) I'll try to schedule all newly recorded videos into the next BerkeleyTIP meeting. :) ===================================================================== ===== FORWARD THIS ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL WHERE APPROPRIATE You are invited to forward this email wherever appropriate. Pass the word on, encourage other people to attend the meeting, & encourage the growth, improvement & strengthening of all Public Property, Community, "Free as in Freedom & FreeSpeech" software. :) From donnamsnow at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 18:50:19 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:50:19 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] More info on coops Message-ID: Hi, I wasn't sure exactly how a co-op works but I ran into this information for anyone looking to form their own: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/small-business/2008/09/how_do_iform_a_co-op.html http://www.ncba.coop/ http://www.go.coop It looks like there may be one forming in San Francisco and I'm looking for other entrepreneurs interested in sharing office and resource costs in the Bay Area (West San Jose). Write me for an invite to the group if this interests you at all. Thank you!!! Donna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 22:34:05 2009 From: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com (J C) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:34:05 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus Message-ID: I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com Java? Perl? Python? _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathan at yergler.net Wed Feb 4 22:49:05 2009 From: nathan at yergler.net (Nathan Yergler) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:49:05 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53039e7b0902041349h8f7c289i1700e1b45198fe16@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:34 PM, J C wrote: > I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop an > online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > > Java? > Perl? > Python? The one you know best. > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From nar at hush.com Wed Feb 4 22:52:44 2009 From: nar at hush.com (Nathan Ramella) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:52:44 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ac2fdbc5ec3fd408bffa84a4bdeaf69@smtp.hushmail.com> The language you use shouldn't really matter, the juice of any dictionary app is going to be the backend database. Since you have a small amount of data to contend with (OED2 is roughly about 600 megs compressed) it's basically down to the type of searches you want to do. I did something similar (and am still working on some dictionary stuff..), but my first iteration was a PDF search engine for ~300gb of PDF content. You'd probably do very well with the following configuration: 1) Lucene backend for the search engine, it can very easily handle the amount of data necessary and can be fine tuned. While Lucene is written in Java, I can't argue with the fact that it works great and has a thriving developer community and there's nothing close to it in the Python world. You could just go with a MySQL/Oracle/etc backend, but what you end up having to redevelop is the trie-search algorithm stuff. 2) Some sort of web-service overlay that speaks DICT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DICT . I used mod_python + PyLucene for accessing data. Speaking DICT isn't necessary, but it does eliminate the need to reproduce existing work. 3) Some sort of display layer, could be anything. Good candidates are Django or some AJAXy thing. I went with FLEX Builder just because it makes sexy GUI work ridiculously easy. PyAMF speaks to FLEX nicely. You could do it all in Python or Java or Perl.. But it's what you feel comfortable using that really matters. -n On Feb 4, 2009, at 1:34 PM, J C wrote: > I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to > develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > > Java? > Perl? > Python? > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvoorhie at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 00:04:45 2009 From: mvoorhie at yahoo.com (Mark Voorhies) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:04:45 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows/OS X installers for PyQt4 apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200902041504.45965.mvoorhie@yahoo.com> I am starting work on a Python/Qt4 based GUI and am looking for advice on packaging the finished application for Windows XP and OS X. The details are: * The development is being done on Linux (Ubuntu and Debian), so open source packaging tools that run on Linux are preferred. * I am using the GPL licensing option for Qt4 (entire application distributed under the GPL). * The current dependencies are Qt4 and some pure Python libraries. * The target audience is non-programmer biologists, so the install process should be on the order of "download this file and double-click to install". My initial googling turned up these threads: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2006-December/001398.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2008-April/003296.html which are useful, but not as Qt-specific as I was hoping to find. Thanks, Mark Voorhies From j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 00:20:16 2009 From: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com (J C) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:20:16 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus Message-ID: If the dictionary file is xml. Does make a difference? To: baypiggies at python.org Subject: Online Dictionary/Thesaurus Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:34:05 +0000 I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com Java? Perl? Python? _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 00:53:48 2009 From: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com (J C) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:53:48 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How would one convert the xml file? I am fairly new to programing etc. Are you sure this is required? Words are grouped by a particular range in the alphabet (shown in the file name). Words are in a particular tag with a corresponding unique identifier. From: nar at hush.com To: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:44:53 -0800 You'll want to convert it to something with faster lookups. XML is extremely slow compared to even the slowest database. But, it should be relatively simple to convert. -n On Feb 4, 2009, at 3:20 PM, J C wrote:If the dictionary file is xml. Does make a difference? To: baypiggies at python.org Subject: Online Dictionary/Thesaurus Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:34:05 +0000 I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com Java? Perl? Python? Upgrade to Hotmail Plus and share more photos with bigger attachments. Click here to find out how Click here to find out how _______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list Baypiggies at python.org To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mac at Culver.Net Thu Feb 5 00:59:03 2009 From: mac at Culver.Net (Michael Cheponis) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:59:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For sure, I'd have to say assembly language; possibly portable assembly language (that is, C). Undoubtedly, your dictionary/thesaurus will fit entirely in memory. This way will always be the fastest, as you never want a user to wait even a millisecond if it's not necessary. People should NEVER wait for machines, and this trend of ever-bloated software MUST end. Every second your software wastes of other people's lives is a second they could have been doing something more productive. When multiplied by the millions of users you'll have, inefficient software is causing HUGH amounts of Human Life to be wasted, just because a programmer was lazy. You should probably prototype it in Python, however. And, who knows, that may be fast enough for your application. -Mike On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, J C wrote: >Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:34:05 +0000 >From: J C >To: baypiggies at python.org >Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus > > >I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop an >online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > >Java? >Perl? >Python? From asheesh at asheesh.org Thu Feb 5 01:12:57 2009 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:12:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, J C wrote: > How would one convert the xml file? I am fairly new to programing etc. > Are you sure this is required? Words are grouped by a particular range > in the alphabet (shown in the file name). Words are in a particular tag > with a corresponding unique identifier. You might like to read "Dive Into Python" which covers XML processing. But if you just want a website, I would suggest you: * Learn about how to run a web server like Apache and have it show plain HTML pages to a user * Learn how to write a program that generates HTML files (If you are a new programmer, I recommend this text to learn how to program in Python. Then go back to Dive Into Python.) * Write a program that generates one HTML file per web page you want your users to be able to see. That way, no programs other than the web server get called when users hit your website, so it will be as fast as it can be. -- Asheesh. -- No violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the furniture! -- Sherlock Holmes From pfein at pobox.com Thu Feb 5 01:54:37 2009 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:54:37 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D716E60-6F12-4471-AEA8-1CE1ECD43B1F@pobox.com> On Feb 4, 2009, at 1:34 PM, J C wrote: > I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to > develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > > Java? > Perl? > Python? Depends on what languages your TA knows. Choosing something he's not familiar with may make him feel inferior, which is never good for one's grade. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p at ulmcnett.com Thu Feb 5 02:40:01 2009 From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:40:01 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498A4371.1080208@ulmcnett.com> J C wrote: > I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to develop > an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > > Java? > Perl? > Python? This application would require: + some sort of data storage mechanism + a language to write the logic of the application + some method to present the application as a web site All of the languages you mention have this ability. We being members of BayPiggies would argue that Python would be the best choice. So I'm not sure how to continue the discussion until more information is given. Paul From j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 03:05:26 2009 From: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com (J C) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 02:05:26 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting... Do you suppose this is how dictionary. com would do this also? > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:12:57 -0800 > From: asheesh at asheesh.org > To: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com > CC: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, J C wrote: > > > How would one convert the xml file? I am fairly new to programing etc. > > Are you sure this is required? Words are grouped by a particular range > > in the alphabet (shown in the file name). Words are in a particular tag > > with a corresponding unique identifier. > > You might like to read "Dive Into Python" > which covers XML > processing. > > But if you just want a website, I would suggest you: > > * Learn about how to run a web server like Apache and have it show plain > HTML pages to a user > > * Learn how to write a program that generates HTML files > > (If you are a new programmer, I recommend this text > to learn how to program > in Python. Then go back to Dive Into Python.) > > * Write a program that generates one HTML file per web page you want your > users to be able to see. > > That way, no programs other than the web server get called when users hit > your website, so it will be as fast as it can be. > > -- Asheesh. > > -- > No violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the furniture! > -- Sherlock Holmes _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asheesh at asheesh.org Thu Feb 5 03:24:11 2009 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:24:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, J C wrote: > Interesting... Do you suppose this is how dictionary. com would do this > also? No idea. But I can say this: If you don't have the skills to do what I described, you won't succeed at anything more complicated. And if that simple strategy I suggested is good enough for what you want, then you're golden. -- Asheesh. -- Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we are not the person involved. -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar" From j_2003_47 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 05:11:44 2009 From: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com (J C) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 04:11:44 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So this would be a site generation system that creates the entire site that makes use of separately-held page templates, an XML page database and content files to generate a choice of live or pending pages using a simple web-based form. > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:24:11 -0800 > From: asheesh at asheesh.org > To: j_2003_47 at hotmail.com > CC: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: RE: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus > > On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, J C wrote: > > > Interesting... Do you suppose this is how dictionary. com would do this > > also? > > No idea. > > But I can say this: If you don't have the skills to do what I described, > you won't succeed at anything more complicated. And if that simple > strategy I suggested is good enough for what you want, then you're golden. > > -- Asheesh. > > -- > Why is it that we rejoice at a birth and grieve at a funeral? It is because we > are not the person involved. > -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar" _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bsergean at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 07:22:43 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:22:43 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows/OS X installers for PyQt4 apps In-Reply-To: <200902041504.45965.mvoorhie@yahoo.com> References: <200902041504.45965.mvoorhie@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0902052222l7ded474o6307fba671a3f60@mail.gmail.com> I would try to find a PyQt open-source app and look at their build script ;) For packaging on Windows most people use py2exe. Looks like it works with Qt. http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt For OSX I'm not sure how it works (I know it works great for pure C++ apps, but don't know for python/pyqt). Asking on the PyQt mailing list would be a good start. - Benjamin. Then you need to create an installer on windows ... On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Mark Voorhies wrote: > I am starting work on a Python/Qt4 based GUI and am looking for advice on > packaging the finished application for Windows XP and OS X. > > The details are: > * The development is being done on Linux (Ubuntu and Debian), so open > source > packaging tools that run on Linux are preferred. > * I am using the GPL licensing option for Qt4 (entire application > distributed under the GPL). > * The current dependencies are Qt4 and some pure Python libraries. > * The target audience is non-programmer biologists, so the install process > should be on the order of "download this file and double-click to > install". > > My initial googling turned up these threads: > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2006-December/001398.html > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2008-April/003296.html > > which are useful, but not as Qt-specific as I was hoping to find. > > Thanks, > > Mark Voorhies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 21:33:51 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:33:51 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] going to PyCon? book everything NOW Message-ID: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> this is a friendly reminder that PyCon registration has opened. go to the main conf website: http://us.pycon.org there are 2 separate links, one for conference registration, and the other for lodging. you'll need to register for both. while you can delay your conference registration a bit (early bird ends in a few weeks), you should book your hotel room now because rooms fill up FAST. finally, for those of you flying out of the Bay Area, AA (and codeshared with Alaska) is having a fare sale to ORD. SFO-ORD $89 and SJC-ORD $94(!). returning is slightly more since sunday is going to be jam-packed with ppl coming back... ORD-SFO $143 and ORD-SJC $145. anyway, the bottom line is that your airfare will cost less than the conference fee if you book now. check it all out at http://aa.com or http://alaskaair.com (NOTE: there are no non-stops out of OAK, so for any EBers who have to fly out of there, USAir has the best fares at the moment, followed by Delta then United.) for all you southwest peeps, you can also get a good fare and they do fly non-stop to chicago, but they land at MDW instead of ORD, which is where the conference is. good luck! -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From mvoorhie at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 22:11:02 2009 From: mvoorhie at yahoo.com (Mark Voorhies) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:11:02 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows/OS X installers for PyQt4 apps In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0902052222l7ded474o6307fba671a3f60@mail.gmail.com> References: <200902041504.45965.mvoorhie@yahoo.com> <1621f9fa0902052222l7ded474o6307fba671a3f60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902061311.03315.mvoorhie@yahoo.com> On Thursday 05 February 2009 10:22 pm Benjamin Sergeant wrote: > I would try to find a PyQt open-source app and look at their build script ;) > > For packaging on Windows most people use py2exe. Looks like it works with > Qt. > http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt > > For OSX I'm not sure how it works (I know it works great for pure C++ apps, > but don't know for python/pyqt). Asking on the PyQt mailing list would be a > good start. > > - Benjamin. > > Then you need to create an installer on windows ... Thanks for the advice. I'm looking into the build systems for kodos (looks like they use py2exe) and orange (which deploys as a windows installer, an OS X bundle, a fink archive, ...) I'm also going ahead and asking on the PyQt list. I'll post again here when and if I have a working build system. Thanks again, Mark From slander at unworkable.org Sat Feb 7 03:10:43 2009 From: slander at unworkable.org (Harry Tormey) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:10:43 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Tuesday February 10th 6pm @ NEW VENUE: Main San Francisco Public Library Message-ID: <20090207021043.GB16837@unworkable.org> Hi All, just writing to say that this months PyGameSF meet up is in a new venue, the STONG conference room on the first floor of the main San Francisco public library beside civic center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we will be finishing up earlier than usual and reconviening to http://www.frjtzfries.com/ on hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwards. If you are interested in coming along, shoot me a mail in advance and I will book you a place at the table. This month's presentations are: - Warren Stringer: Tr3.py media ontology demo and code firehose. Warren Stringer has been performing visual music at clubs, concerts, installations, and festivals, around the World - not to mention a couple of extraterrestrial pilgrimages to burning man. Various and sundry devices were used: tablets, midi controllers, vuppets, handicams, fisheyes, and bubble domes - all deployed to fill dark spaces with light. The backbone of the visual synth is a software patch-bay, called Tr3. Tr3 was originally a thin layer around C++ objects to marshal events. Tr3 has since grown and shrunk. "Grown" in that Tr3 was redesigned to be an executable ontology for real-time events - complete with a visualization. "Shrunk" in that one of Tr3's parsers was written in Python. Since this is a Pygame meetup, Warren will be focusing on the Python bits. Here's what might be covered: 1) Short demo of visual synth with tablet a) short history of Tr3 (Windows version) 3) Python port in progress (Mac version) a) Metaclass hacking the Python Dictionaries b) A quasi-BNF parser using python statements with fixable exceptions c) What Py2x won't do, but what Py3K might (stack rewinding) 4) C++ back port from Python generated parse def a) performances issues with Tr3.Py b) Cross python c++ Issues (discussion) 6) Code release (suggestions?) 7) Future directions (suggestions?) 8) Belgian alternatives - Robert Ferguson : Audio iPhone Development Rob will go over some of his tips for starting iPhone Development and using Core Audio. Talk will include how to combine objective C and C++ and basic audio processing. PyGame SF is an informal group meet up in San Francisco for Software engineers interested in python, OpenGL, audio, pygame, SDL, programming and generally anything to do with multimedia development. The format of our meetings typically involve several people giving presentations on projects they are developing followed by group discussion and feedback. If anyone else would like to give a micro presentation, show demos or just talk about what they are doing or generally give examples of any relevant software they are working on please feel free to head along. To subscribe to the pygamesf mailing list simply email pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org -- Harry Tormey http://pygamesf.org From janssen at parc.com Sun Feb 8 21:23:11 2009 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:23:11 PST Subject: [Baypiggies] Online Dictionary/Thesaurus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9806.1234124591@parc.com> J C wrote: > I was would like to ask what the best programming language is to > develop an online dictionary/thesaurus similar to dictionary. com > > Java? > Perl? > Python? As long as it speaks RFC 2229, I think you could use anything you're comfortable with. I find Python with Twisted or even Medusa pretty convenient for these applications. Bill From jjinux at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 10:41:36 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 01:41:36 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] going to PyCon? book everything NOW In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> References: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM, wesley chun wrote: > this is a friendly reminder that PyCon registration has opened. go to > the main conf website: > http://us.pycon.org > > there are 2 separate links, one for conference registration, and the > other for lodging. you'll need to register for both. while you can > delay your conference registration a bit (early bird ends in a few > weeks), you should book your hotel room now because rooms fill up > FAST. > > finally, for those of you flying out of the Bay Area, AA (and > codeshared with Alaska) is having a fare sale to ORD. SFO-ORD $89 and > SJC-ORD $94(!). returning is slightly more since sunday is going to be > jam-packed with ppl coming back... ORD-SFO $143 and ORD-SJC $145. > anyway, the bottom line is that your airfare will cost less than the > conference fee if you book now. check it all out at http://aa.com or > http://alaskaair.com (NOTE: there are no non-stops out of OAK, so for > any EBers who have to fly out of there, USAir has the best fares at > the moment, followed by Delta then United.) for all you southwest > peeps, you can also get a good fare and they do fly non-stop to > chicago, but they land at MDW instead of ORD, which is where the > conference is. I'm going to have to miss PyCon this year. My startup is making enough money to pay my mortgage, but I don't have enough money to make it to Chicago. I hate this economy :( -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From wescpy at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 16:44:14 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:44:14 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] going to PyCon? book everything NOW In-Reply-To: References: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580902090744w5611719docc715cfa51536ce@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > I'm going to have to miss PyCon this year. My startup is making > enough money to pay my mortgage, but I don't have enough money to make > it to Chicago. I hate this economy :( it's for this very reason that financial aid exists, so even if you can't afford it, there's help: http://us.pycon.org/2009/registration/financial-aid/ -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From walterv at gbbservices.com Mon Feb 9 20:39:52 2009 From: walterv at gbbservices.com (Walter Vannini) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:39:52 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] ACCU on Wednesday 'Abstraction as Leverage' Alex Martelli Message-ID: <49908688.5040407@gbbservices.com> When: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 Topic: Abstraction as Leverage Speaker: Alex Martelli Time: 6:30pm doors open 7:00pm meeting begins Where: Symantec VCAFE building 350 Ellis Street (near E. Middlefield Road) Mountain View, CA 94043 Map: Directions: VCAFE is accessible from the semicircular courtyard between Symantec buildings Cost: Free More Info: We code (and design, think, debug, ...) on a tower of abstractions -- we can't do otherwise! And yet... abstraction is a powerful servant, but a dangerous master. Per Spolsky's Law, "All abstractions leak". Indeed, they often SHOULD "leak": the most productive level for our work is NOT always the most-abstract one. The talk explores how best to produce and consume abstraction layers, focusing on programming, where such issues are burningly important, technical, and real, on a day-to-day basis. Alex Martelli is Senior Staff Engineer at Google. Alex holds a laurea in Ingegneria Elettronica from Bologna University. He wrote Python in a Nutshell, and also co-edited the Python Cookbook. He's a member of the Python Software Foundation, and won the 2002 Activators' Choice Award and the 2006 Frank Willison Memorial Award. Alex spent 8 years with IBM Research (earning three Outstanding Technical Achievement Awards), 12 years as senior consultant (Win32, Fortran, C, C++, Java, etc) at Think3 inc, and 3 years as a Python freelance consultant (mostly for AB Strakt). He has taught Programming, Numerical Computing, and Object Oriented Design at Ferrara University and other venues. Meetings are open to the public and are free of charge. ---- Upcoming ACCU talks ----- Tuesday, March 10, 2009 Kevlin Henney "Giving Code a Good Name" Wednesday, April 8, 2009 Speaker TBA Topic TBA --------- The ACCU meets monthly. Meetings are always open to the public and are free of charge. To suggest topics and speakers please email Walter Vannini via walterv at gbbservices.com From stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 23:22:31 2009 From: stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com (Stephen Cattaneo) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:22:31 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? Message-ID: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Hi friends, I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid salary. My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself included). I'm looking for new work. I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge hourly. I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for such a position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when talking wages. Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what value do you use for your modifier? hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 hours in a week benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem reasonable in your experience? Cheers, S -- --- Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement. -- C.S. Lewis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sampenrose at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 23:35:22 2009 From: sampenrose at gmail.com (Sam Penrose) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:35:22 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] going to PyCon? book everything NOW In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> References: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7e5707da0902091435n1ef05854nf672ca1364d9825d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM, wesley chun wrote: > the moment, followed by Delta then United.) for all you southwest > peeps, you can also get a good fare and they do fly non-stop to > chicago, but they land at MDW instead of ORD, which is where the > conference is. Riding the subway between the two airports takes maybe 90 minutes and is fairly painless, at least off-peak. You'll have to transfer, decode the Chicago transit system's payment mechanisms, etc. Van shuttle was under $20 last year and took about 45 minutes at rush hour. From glen at glenjarvis.com Mon Feb 9 23:38:38 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:38:38 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Stephen, The largest mistake I ever made in contracting was not charging the rate that the Small Business Association (SBA) in San Francisco taught me to charge. It just seemed so high, and I doubted (and still doubt) I was *worth* as much as that. I was also brand-spanking new to Python (I've only been coding in Python a little over a year), so there is some justification for me to be less than what you would probably charge. However, here's the calculation: take the calculation you mentioned to find your normal hourly rate (minus benefits). Then, multiply the number by 2.5. That's a rough estimate. If you can calculate your benefits more accurately, great! But, realize that there is more than just benefits involved here. You won't be working '40 hours per week' at the new rate. A good deal of time is spent in administration, billing, sales (getting new clients), etc. So, this *really* needs factored in. How much time you spend doing these necessary evils, compared to coding varies a lot with people. Some people, depending upon their profession, are only 'billable' 30% of the time. I feel it's much higher for programming. Because I'm still learning a great deal, I spend a lot of time learning within a project, so I bill a very small portion of the amount of time I put into a project. However, I think that's just me and my newness. The SBA courses are completely free and are an *incredible* resource if you wish to learn how to avoid gotchas and pitfalls on the business side. Ask me off list and I'll forward some details for you on the courses. Hopefully that helps a little... Take care and good luck. Happy Coding and Contracting =) Cheers, Glen -- I'm Riding to End AIDS From May 31-June 6, 2009, I'm bicycling in AIDS/LifeCycle. It's a 7- day, 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles to make a world of difference in the lives of people living with HIV and AIDS. Please support me and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation by making a donation. Visit: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis We'll keep riding until AIDS and HIV are a thing of the past. 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis On Feb 9, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Hi friends, > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid > salary. My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself > included). I'm looking for new work. > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge > hourly. I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/ > medical for such a position; I'd like to take these things into > consideration when talking wages. > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what > value do you use for your modifier? > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 > hours in a week > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem > reasonable in your experience? > > Cheers, > > S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aleax at google.com Mon Feb 9 23:46:39 2009 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:46:39 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0902091446l110362a7y22d178da001c1283@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, I don't know about much about the cost/value of US benefits (my experience as a freelancer was based in a European country where I got medical, though not dental, coverage through a public service anyway), but a useful rule of thumb is to charge based on the assumption that you'll be able to bill around 1,000 hours/year -- this takes into account the amount of time & energy it takes to "sell" your services, and also the direct expense that may be incurred that way. For a long-term guaranteed contract you might want to offer some discount from that base hourly rate, since it reduces the "selling" overhead and uncertainty. But for example if you know you need at least 80,000 / year (gross of taxes) to survive and pay your mortgage, as a baseline you should think of charging at least $80 / hour, even before you think of health coverage costs, _not_ around $40. One thing I do know about cost/value of US benefits (and other overhead and incidentals) is that the "fully loaded" cost of an employee typically works out to about twice as much as that employee's salary. Funny enough, the same 2:1 rules of thumb applies in Italy although for example health care is not typically included in benefits (but for example a mandatory monthly "lay-away" by the employer towards a severance payment for the employee IS mandatory in Italy). I have not been managing and responsible for budgets in other countries so the US and Italy are the only two data points I have here. Alex On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Hi friends, > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid salary. > My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself included). I'm > looking for new work. > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge hourly. > I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for such a > position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when talking > wages. > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what value do > you use for your modifier? > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 hours in a > week > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem reasonable in > your experience? > > Cheers, > > S > > -- > --- > Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement. > > -- C.S. Lewis > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 23:55:25 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:55:25 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I would love to see a (mini-)talk on how to be a (Python) contractor, from rates to terms of contract to marketing yourself to liability insurance to ownership rights to what (Python-related) skills are hot or not, and what rate they fetch. Plus a redux of what the SBA course tells. >From what IEEE Consultants Network advise, negotiating your rate is only one thing, making sure you get paid (at all, let alone 100c on the dollar, let alone in a timely way, e.g. 30 days net) is entirely another story. Stephen M _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Feb 10 00:06:32 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:06:32 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090209230631.GB20730@panix.com> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what > value do you use for your modifier? The standard simple formula for hourly wage as a contractor is to use your annual salary in thousands. IOW, if you were making $100K/year, charge $100/hour. By way of comparison, my last company charged $150/hour for contracted work. Obviously, in this economy, you may need to be more negotiable in your expectations... I will second what others said about making sure you get paid; I haven't had problems with that myself but I've heard/seen many horror stories. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. From glen at glenjarvis.com Tue Feb 10 00:23:21 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:23:21 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Alex Martelli previously said in an earlier email: > But for example if you know you need at least 80,000 > / year (gross of taxes) to survive and pay your mortgage, as a > baseline you should think of charging at least $80 / hour, even before > you think of health coverage costs, _not_ around $40. Alex has hit the nail on the head almost perfectly. After I finished a degree, I was out of work for a while and in a complete new area of technology. So, I took a big pay cut , moved here, and began working for a company in the Bay Area doing Python programming. As an entry level programmer with experience, I was paid roughly $80K. When that fell through (Real Estate Web Site so they saw the crunch/ crisis that we're in very early), I decided to contract at $45/hour. Well, I didn't know what to do so I became a cowboy and just tried... inexperienced or not. I didn't know crap about how to be a styling programmer in Python. I ended-up bike-shedding a lot about style because it's one of the small areas I could actually know almost completely. And, frankly, I have an intense desire to "do things right," and style is the first-stepping stone to that for me. Anyhow, I am still been charging the same rate, almost a year later of $45/hour. And, that's why I'm in such financial trouble. I bill a much smaller amount than the 40+ hours/week that I work. Worse, the people who are hiring now want the super stars (and there are some great ones out here - I'm amazed at the talent I see in BayPIGgies). So, I'm not quite good enough to get another full-time gig in this market; but, many of my clients like me because I at least *try* to do *really* good work and am cheap (but obviously slow). To wrap up with a very exposing (but hopefully helpful) email, because I had just finished a degree, I'd already dipped heavily into my savings while studying. And, because I'm making much less than I need in the big picture, I'm slowly getting into more and more trouble financially. I also haven't had health insurance in over a year. If I were to have found a way to take the advice that we're giving here on the list, I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in slowly falling into right now. On the bright side, I'm still learning a *lot* more than I would be if I were just working on a regimented task. I'm starting to feel myself get past that 'brute force' coding mentality. And, I won't be where I am forever. Also, I've learned a *LOT* about how Small Business matters (like Taxes, Legal Entities, Billing, Sales, etc. etc. etc.) Stephen McInenerney said in an earlier email: > I would love to see a (mini-)talk on how to be a (Python) contractor, > from from rates to terms of contract to marketing yourself to liability insurance > to ownership rights to what (Python-related) skills are hot or not, > and what rate they fetch. > Plus a redux of what the SBA course tells. I still have *so* much to learn about Python, but I'd be happy to share what I can with regard to contracting, mistakes I've made, things I got right, SBA stuff, etc. I've, for example, never not been paid, etc. All the best, Glen -- I'm Riding to End AIDS From May 31-June 6, 2009, I'm bicycling in AIDS/LifeCycle. It's a 7- day, 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles to make a world of difference in the lives of people living with HIV and AIDS. Please support me and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation by making a donation. Visit: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis We'll keep riding until AIDS and HIV are a thing of the past. 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python at dylanreinhardt.com Tue Feb 10 00:23:36 2009 From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:23:36 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c645a720902091523y30ed633dk1130f46b6cfa9481@mail.gmail.com> Some quick tips from a former Python contractor: 1. Charge at least twice as much as you want to make. You're responsible for paying ~40% of your gross income as tax. If you're used to thinking as an employee, you REALLY want to make sure you are planning for this adequately. 2. Get an accountant (see #1). Do not wait until tax time to form this relationship. 3. Don't under-charge. While anyone might balk at a $200/hr contractor in these times, they might be equally worried about doing business with a $25/hr contractor. Programming involves taking a lot of responsibility for serious things and you want to communicate that you're up to it. 4. Be sure to get paid. The best way to do this is to invoice regularly and always work on a time & materials basis (e.g., by the hour). Do not take on project-priced work unless you *really* know what you're doing. Additionally, avoid "incentive" payment structures that push substantial amounts of your compensation until after delivery. There are a lot of reasons why software projects don't get delivered and you don't want to be the only one taking on any risk. 5. Forget benefits. Worry about this in year 5 or 6 when you're able to pay your other bills. Hope that's helpful, Dylan On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Hi friends, > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid salary. > My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself included). I'm > looking for new work. > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge hourly. > I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for such a > position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when talking > wages. > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what value > do you use for your modifier? > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 hours in a > week > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem reasonable in > your experience? > > Cheers, > > S > > -- > --- > Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement. > > -- C.S. Lewis > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ddf at iqdotdt.com Tue Feb 10 00:18:54 2009 From: ddf at iqdotdt.com (Delbert Franz) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:18:54 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902091518.54600.ddf@iqdotdt.com> On Monday 09 February 2009, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Hi friends, > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid salary. > My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself included). I'm > looking for new work. > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge hourly. > I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for such a > position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when talking > wages. > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what value do > you use for your modifier? > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 hours in a > week > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem reasonable in > your experience? Hi all, I have been working in consulting in Civil Engineering since 1970 and yes, to survive one has to charge an hourly rate that at first seems way too high but after years of experience it is not. Being able to bill out more than 50-65 percent of the time comes rarely. There are endless things needing to be done that no one can be asked to pay as a direct charge to their project. Currently I am charging $120/hour, which I need to raise to $140 to $160/hour on my next contracts. A rule of thumb to use is to take your desired hourly rate, the one you would be paid if you were employed somewhere (do not include benefits) and multiply by 2.5 to 3.0. (To put this in perspective, the rates I charge, are less than that charged by junior-level attorneys:-) Typical rates for an attorney with the experience I have in my field would be $500 to $1200/hour--perhaps we picked the wrong field:-) ) Another option, if the task seems well defined and you are confident in your ability to complete it, is to seek a lump sum, but many clients do not like it. I rarely get such arrangements, but in many cases I would prefer them. Tally up the total for the project and then specify what is delivered and that is that--no hourly charging etc, but then you have to get the work done for that amount and deliver what you promised! The risk for loss is greater, but if done well, the risk for larger margins is greater as well. Hope this helps. Delbert From davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com Tue Feb 10 00:39:37 2009 From: davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com (Monte Davidoff) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:39:37 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> Hi Stephen, I've been consulting for eight years. I agree with much of the advice already given. Here are some additional thoughts. First of all, decide if you want to make a go at consulting as a career move, or is contracting something temporary until you can line up a job as a full-time employee. That will help you to decide how much business structure you want to put in place (business entity, insurance, etc.). If you will be paid on a 1099 basis and not on a W-2 as an employee of a contracting company, you'll pay double the Medicare and FICA taxes you see on your pay stub. Individual policies for medical insurance are expensive, and can go up by 20%/year (when I crossed an age boundary, mine when up by almost 50%). Depending on where you live, you might need a business license. Get at least a general business liability policy (which does not cover you for professional liability, a.k.a. errors and omissions, which is very expensive). Before you start, get professional advice on taxes, what you can deduct as a business expense, record keeping, etc. You might need to make quarterly estimated tax payments. Sign a contract before you start work: you may need legal advice from an attorney. It is a good idea to set aside cash for an emergency fund so you can survive for at least six months without any income. When you first start out, there is a lot to learn, things to take care of, and it takes time that you can't bill for. Monte From glen at glenjarvis.com Tue Feb 10 02:17:25 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:17:25 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> Message-ID: Like every posting I've seen on this subject, Monte gives great advice. This is the type of thing you will get lots of help on at the SBA (and the retired consultants SCORE). If you live in San Francisco, for example, a member of the city will come and give you a pamphlet, explaining how to determine what licenses you need, etc. Also, the big rule of thumb is "ignorance isn't an excuse" if you accidentally break some rules/tax laws without knowing about them, you're still liable. And, liability and legal tax structures (Corporations, LLCs, etc. etc.) are discussed. There are many different classes -- almost one for each sentence below. And, you can attend this BEFORE you decide to contract - so there's no risk in doing so. There are many other things you can learn to (like how/why to give out a W9, EIN numbers, Quickbooks courses, Bookkeeeping 1, 2 and 3, Market Research, etc.) I don't want to forward the large list of classes here because it seems extreme for this list. But, I've been forwarding this week's class list and more contact details to those who have asked. You may find you don't want to contract; or, that you don't have the resources to contract now and you need to make a longer plan for it. Cheers, Glen P.S. I'm this zealous about BayPIGgies to outsiders too ;) On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Monte Davidoff wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > I've been consulting for eight years. I agree with much of the > advice already given. Here are some additional thoughts. > > First of all, decide if you want to make a go at consulting as a > career move, or is contracting something temporary until you can > line up a job as a full-time employee. That will help you to decide > how much business structure you want to put in place (business > entity, insurance, etc.). > > If you will be paid on a 1099 basis and not on a W-2 as an employee > of a contracting company, you'll pay double the Medicare and FICA > taxes you see on your pay stub. Individual policies for medical > insurance are expensive, and can go up by 20%/year (when I crossed > an age boundary, mine when up by almost 50%). Depending on where > you live, you might need a business license. Get at least a general > business liability policy (which does not cover you for professional > liability, a.k.a. errors and omissions, which is very expensive). > Before you start, get professional advice on taxes, what you can > deduct as a business expense, record keeping, etc. You might need > to make quarterly estimated tax payments. Sign a contract before > you start work: you may need legal advice from an attorney. It is a > good idea to set aside cash for an emergency fund so you can survive > for at least six months without any income. > > When you first start out, there is a lot to learn, things to take > care of, and it takes time that you can't bill for. > > Monte From pfein at pobox.com Tue Feb 10 02:34:13 2009 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:34:13 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] going to PyCon? book everything NOW In-Reply-To: <7e5707da0902091435n1ef05854nf672ca1364d9825d@mail.gmail.com> References: <78b3a9580902061233m13a0532fy7d1ec47aca590355@mail.gmail.com> <7e5707da0902091435n1ef05854nf672ca1364d9825d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1A1F89AD-5C01-41E6-8DEB-DA191F45FE21@pobox.com> On Feb 9, 2009, at 2:35 PM, Sam Penrose wrote: > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:33 PM, wesley chun wrote: >> the moment, followed by Delta then United.) for all you southwest >> peeps, you can also get a good fare and they do fly non-stop to >> chicago, but they land at MDW instead of ORD, which is where the >> conference is. > > Riding the subway between the two airports takes maybe 90 minutes and > is fairly painless, at least off-peak. You'll have to transfer, decode > the Chicago transit system's payment mechanisms, etc. Van shuttle was > under $20 last year and took about 45 minutes at rush hour. Let me second that (I'm from Chicago). It's a pretty easy trip (though crowded at rush hour), and the payment is *way* less confusing then BART. Personally, I prefer flying from Midway (even though I live closer to O'hare) - it's smaller & more manageable/pleasant than ORD (which is HUGE). From amax at redsymbol.net Tue Feb 10 02:46:55 2009 From: amax at redsymbol.net (Aaron Maxwell) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:46:55 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> Message-ID: <200902091746.55996.amax@redsymbol.net> On Monday 09 February 2009 17:17:25 Glen Jarvis wrote: > Like every posting I've seen on this subject, Monte gives great advice. > > This is the type of thing you will get lots of help on at the SBA (and > the retired consultants SCORE). If you live in San Francisco, for The SBA center in San Francisco is AWESOME! If you are of an entrepreneurial mindset at all, it has some wonderful, low cost or free resources to help you get going. Especially their classes and workshops. > There are many different classes -- almost one for each sentence > I don't want to forward the large list of classes here because it Here's a link: http://www.acteva.com/ttghits.cfm?EVA_ID=126 (I'm suspicious of the longevity of that link - if it does not lead you to a list of classes, go to http://www.norcalsbdc.org/ and peer under "Training".) I've always had a knack for writing code, but I started with the business sense of a brick. The SBA courses helped me quite a bit in becoming successful as a consultant. Cheers, Aaron -- Aaron Maxwell http://redsymbol.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 03:20:28 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:20:28 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] upcoming Plone training Message-ID: Hi guys, Just a quick note to let you know about an upcoming Plone training session in Sunnyvale (Plug & Play Tech Center) http://plone.org/events/training/c2e-creating-plone-3-skins-and-custom-views I'm offering a $50 discount for anyone who signs up before Saturday. Use save50 and Event Brite will take the discount. Let me know if you have any questions! Best Regards, Donna M Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminating your path to Open Source http://www.csquaredtech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdbaddog at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 03:25:19 2009 From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 21:25:19 -0500 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <200902091518.54600.ddf@iqdotdt.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <200902091518.54600.ddf@iqdotdt.com> Message-ID: <8540148a0902091825u53c830s47027821cf581465@mail.gmail.com> All, I'll concur on the don't take project based payments. Clients rarely can be specific enough and not change requirements to make a good estimate possible. You don't want to end up working for $10/hr in the end. -Bill On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: > On Monday 09 February 2009, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > > Hi friends, > > > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid > salary. > > My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself included). I'm > > looking for new work. > > > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge > hourly. > > I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for such a > > position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when talking > > wages. > > > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, what value > do > > you use for your modifier? > > > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 hours in > a > > week > > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem reasonable > in > > your experience? > > Hi all, > > I have been working in consulting in Civil Engineering since 1970 and > yes, to survive one has to charge an hourly rate that at first seems > way too high but after years of experience it is not. Being able > to bill out more than 50-65 percent of the time comes rarely. > There are endless things needing to be done that no one can be > asked to pay as a direct charge to their project. Currently I > am charging $120/hour, which I need to raise to $140 to $160/hour > on my next contracts. A rule of thumb to use is to take your > desired hourly rate, the one you would be paid if you were > employed somewhere (do not include benefits) and multiply > by 2.5 to 3.0. (To put this in perspective, the rates I > charge, are less than that charged by junior-level attorneys:-) > Typical rates for an attorney with the experience I have in > my field would be $500 to $1200/hour--perhaps we picked the > wrong field:-) ) > > Another option, if the task seems well defined and you are confident > in your ability to complete it, is to seek a lump sum, but many > clients do not like it. I rarely get such arrangements, but in > many cases I would prefer them. Tally up the total for the project > and then specify what is delivered and that is that--no hourly charging > etc, but then you have to get the work done for that amount and deliver > what you promised! The risk for loss is greater, but if done well, the > risk for larger margins is greater as well. > > Hope this helps. > > Delbert > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nar at hush.com Tue Feb 10 04:18:04 2009 From: nar at hush.com (Nathan Ramella) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:18:04 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <8540148a0902091825u53c830s47027821cf581465@mail.gmail.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <200902091518.54600.ddf@iqdotdt.com> <8540148a0902091825u53c830s47027821cf581465@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87f86b16151f4514432cf730a5e4d6f9@smtp.hushmail.com> I strongly urge you to check out this book: The Software Developer's Guide by Whil Hentzen http://www.hentzenwerke.com/catalog/sdg3.htm It covers project management, client management, and different strategies on how to bill (by project, per hour, etc) and even comes with forms you can customize to generate work orders and contracts between yourself and clients. Lots of good antidotal stories as well to put things in perspective. The reason I suggest this is that in certain cases charging by the job I think is a far superior route if the situation allows it -- simply put if you're a whizbang dev who's worth 4 'mortal' engineers, nobody's going to pay you $400/hr -- however if you clearly define the requirements and deliver on time, who's going to complain if it took you 10 hours to do what it'd take someone else 40 hours to complete? If the cost is the same (or less) than the competition, it's not a bad route. For the record, I'm not worth 4 engineers.. 2.5 to 3 at best :D -n There's a great book that discusses this, On Feb 9, 2009, at 6:25 PM, William Deegan wrote: > All, > > I'll concur on the don't take project based payments. > Clients rarely can be specific enough and not change requirements to > make a good estimate possible. > You don't want to end up working for $10/hr in the end. > > -Bill > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Delbert Franz wrote: > On Monday 09 February 2009, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > > Hi friends, > > > > I've only had one professional position since college. I was paid > salary. > > My company recently downsized 40% of the company (myself > included). I'm > > looking for new work. > > > > I'm open to contract jobs, but they want to know how much I charge > hourly. > > I'd assume they do not cover things like 401k/dental/medical for > such a > > position; I'd like to take these things into consideration when > talking > > wages. > > > > Do you guys use this formula (or something similar) and if so, > what value do > > you use for your modifier? > > > > hourlySalary = yearlySalary / 52 * 40 # 52 weeks in a year, 40 > hours in a > > week > > benefits = hourlySalary * benefitsModifier > > totalHourlyWage = hourlySalary + benefits > > > > I was thinking something between 5% and 15% -- Does this seem > reasonable in > > your experience? > > Hi all, > > I have been working in consulting in Civil Engineering since 1970 and > yes, to survive one has to charge an hourly rate that at first seems > way too high but after years of experience it is not. Being able > to bill out more than 50-65 percent of the time comes rarely. > There are endless things needing to be done that no one can be > asked to pay as a direct charge to their project. Currently I > am charging $120/hour, which I need to raise to $140 to $160/hour > on my next contracts. A rule of thumb to use is to take your > desired hourly rate, the one you would be paid if you were > employed somewhere (do not include benefits) and multiply > by 2.5 to 3.0. (To put this in perspective, the rates I > charge, are less than that charged by junior-level attorneys:-) > Typical rates for an attorney with the experience I have in > my field would be $500 to $1200/hour--perhaps we picked the > wrong field:-) ) > > Another option, if the task seems well defined and you are confident > in your ability to complete it, is to seek a lump sum, but many > clients do not like it. I rarely get such arrangements, but in > many cases I would prefer them. Tally up the total for the project > and then specify what is delivered and that is that--no hourly > charging > etc, but then you have to get the work done for that amount and > deliver > what you promised! The risk for loss is greater, but if done well, > the > risk for larger margins is greater as well. > > Hope this helps. > > Delbert > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darlene at nearbynow.com Wed Feb 11 01:03:20 2009 From: darlene at nearbynow.com (Darlene Wong) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:03:20 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <200902091746.55996.amax@redsymbol.net> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> <200902091746.55996.amax@redsymbol.net> Message-ID: <362E44A1-A1F5-4860-BD46-E1C37CB3AAF3@nearbynow.com> For anyone that doesn't want to go to SF, there's also an entrepreneur center in downtown San Jose: http://www.ecenteronline.org/home.htm I've never been there but a friend of mine said it really helped him to kick-start his web design business. - Darlene On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Aaron Maxwell wrote: > On Monday 09 February 2009 17:17:25 Glen Jarvis wrote: > > Like every posting I've seen on this subject, Monte gives great > advice. > > > > This is the type of thing you will get lots of help on at the SBA > (and > > the retired consultants SCORE). If you live in San Francisco, for > The SBA center in San Francisco is AWESOME! If you are of an > entrepreneurial mindset at all, it has some wonderful, low cost or > free resources to help you get going. Especially their classes and > workshops. > > There are many different classes -- almost one for each sentence > > I don't want to forward the large list of classes here because it > Here's a link: > http://www.acteva.com/ttghits.cfm?EVA_ID=126 > (I'm suspicious of the longevity of that link - if it does not lead > you to a list of classes, go to http://www.norcalsbdc.org/ and peer > under "Training".) > I've always had a knack for writing code, but I started with the > business sense of a brick. The SBA courses helped me quite a bit in > becoming successful as a consultant. > Cheers, > Aaron > -- > Aaron Maxwell > http://redsymbol.net/ From brent.tubbs at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 04:57:41 2009 From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:57:41 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] How do you calculate your hourly wage? In-Reply-To: <362E44A1-A1F5-4860-BD46-E1C37CB3AAF3@nearbynow.com> References: <9cc0dd6f0902091422j34910bcy825d6bceb0ddd5df@mail.gmail.com> <4990BEB9.40309@alluvialsw.com> <200902091746.55996.amax@redsymbol.net> <362E44A1-A1F5-4860-BD46-E1C37CB3AAF3@nearbynow.com> Message-ID: <769bb4300902101957t1ef3ef62te56a32dc790be0d4@mail.gmail.com> As long as we're on the subject, and given that tax season is approaching, here's a page I ran across on the IRS website, regarding taxes and the self-employed: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/selfemployed/index.html On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Darlene Wong wrote: > For anyone that doesn't want to go to SF, there's also an entrepreneur > center in downtown San Jose: > > http://www.ecenteronline.org/home.htm > > I've never been there but a friend of mine said it really helped him to > kick-start his web design business. > > - Darlene > > > On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Aaron Maxwell wrote: > > On Monday 09 February 2009 17:17:25 Glen Jarvis wrote: >> > Like every posting I've seen on this subject, Monte gives great advice. >> > >> > This is the type of thing you will get lots of help on at the SBA (and >> > the retired consultants SCORE). If you live in San Francisco, for >> The SBA center in San Francisco is AWESOME! If you are of an >> entrepreneurial mindset at all, it has some wonderful, low cost or free >> resources to help you get going. Especially their classes and workshops. >> > There are many different classes -- almost one for each sentence >> > I don't want to forward the large list of classes here because it >> Here's a link: >> http://www.acteva.com/ttghits.cfm?EVA_ID=126 >> (I'm suspicious of the longevity of that link - if it does not lead you to >> a list of classes, go to http://www.norcalsbdc.org/ and peer under >> "Training".) >> I've always had a knack for writing code, but I started with the business >> sense of a brick. The SBA courses helped me quite a bit in becoming >> successful as a consultant. >> Cheers, >> Aaron >> -- >> Aaron Maxwell >> http://redsymbol.net/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walterv at gbbservices.com Wed Feb 11 19:22:10 2009 From: walterv at gbbservices.com (Walter Vannini) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:22:10 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] ACCU tonight 'Abstraction as Leverage' Alex Martelli Message-ID: <49931752.7030809@gbbservices.com> When: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 Topic: Abstraction as Leverage Speaker: Alex Martelli Time: 6:30pm doors open 7:00pm meeting begins Where: Symantec VCAFE building 350 Ellis Street (near E. Middlefield Road) Mountain View, CA 94043 Map: Directions: VCAFE is accessible from the semicircular courtyard between Symantec buildings Cost: Free More Info: We code (and design, think, debug, ...) on a tower of abstractions -- we can't do otherwise! And yet... abstraction is a powerful servant, but a dangerous master. Per Spolsky's Law, "All abstractions leak". Indeed, they often SHOULD "leak": the most productive level for our work is NOT always the most-abstract one. The talk explores how best to produce and consume abstraction layers, focusing on programming, where such issues are burningly important, technical, and real, on a day-to-day basis. Alex Martelli is Senior Staff Engineer at Google. Alex holds a laurea in Ingegneria Elettronica from Bologna University. He wrote Python in a Nutshell, and also co-edited the Python Cookbook. He's a member of the Python Software Foundation, and won the 2002 Activators' Choice Award and the 2006 Frank Willison Memorial Award. Alex spent 8 years with IBM Research (earning three Outstanding Technical Achievement Awards), 12 years as senior consultant (Win32, Fortran, C, C++, Java, etc) at Think3 inc, and 3 years as a Python freelance consultant (mostly for AB Strakt). He has taught Programming, Numerical Computing, and Object Oriented Design at Ferrara University and other venues. Meetings are open to the public and are free of charge. ---- Upcoming ACCU talks ----- Tuesday, March 10, 2009 (Note: Tuesday for this one) Kevlin Henney "Giving Code a Good Name" Wednesday, April 8, 2009 Speaker TBA Topic TBA --------- The ACCU meets monthly. Meetings are always open to the public and are free of charge. To suggest topics and speakers please email Walter Vannini via walterv at gbbservices.com From jim at well.com Wed Feb 11 19:39:01 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:39:01 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec Message-ID: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last few years. Now we've moved.) Beginning February and for some months afterward, baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 on the fourth thursday of each month, from 7:30 to 9 PM. For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein possible additional talk on PyDev Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Feb 11 21:42:24 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:42:24 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Skills and the market Message-ID: <796D30FE-D4F5-475A-99C2-72BC39CE0338@glenjarvis.com> I just received an *incredible* document from a recruiter (that I sadly don't remember talking to). However, after sending such a great document, I'll try to keep her in mind. I don't know proprietary the document is or how ethical it is to send as a whole to everyone in the group. So, I'll just retype the salient points. It's called the SkillProof Job Report for San Francisco Metro and San Jose Metro. National Total IT job openings: 87,700 30 Day Growth: -10.6% San Francisco Metro Total IT job openings: 970 30 Day Growth: -14.2 % Table 1: IT Job Openings, San Francisco Metro Jan 09: 970 Dec 08: 1,130 Nov 08: 1,960 Jan 08: 4,650 Jan 07: 4,110 Table 2: IT Job Openings, Silicon Valley Jan 09: 1, 800 Dec 08: 1,910 Nov 08: 2,410 Jan 08: 5,020 Jan 07: 5,480 There are several more tables regarding IT Job Opening estimated by category which are helpful... (but I won't include here) There's also a "Top 30 needed skills" table. I will omit the Job opening data, but show the list ranked by technology until we get to Python Table 7: San Francisco Metro 1. SQL 2. C++/VC++ 3. Java 4. Linux 5. Large system technologies 6. Windows OS 7. HTML 8. Unix 9. Perl 10. Mainframe O/S 11. XML 12. Business Analysis 13. MVS 14. Oracle DBMS 15. DB2 (IBM) 16. Web Services 17. JavaScript 18. JCL 19. COBOL 20. Flash 21. Python .... Table 8: San Jose Metro 1. C++/VC++ 2. Unix 3. Java 4. Windows OS 5. Linux 6. Perl 7. OO (analysis / design/ programming) 8. Max OS/X 9. SAP 10. SQL 11. XML 12. HTML 13. Business Analysis 14. Wireless 15. Python ... But, what is *most* interesting to me is the Growth by Skill Table. There are many, *many* skills. I'll try only to list the ones relevant to Python. Table 9: Growth by Skill (San Francisco Metro) C++/VC++: 30-Day: -22.2%; 60-Day: -38.6%; 12 Mth -66.7^; 24 Mth: -58.8% Java: 30-Day: 5.0%; 60-Day: -47.4%; 12-Mth: -79.2%; 24-Mth: -78.8% Linux: 30-Day: 6.3%; 60-Day: -50%; 12-Mth: -74.6%; 24-Mth: -72.6% Windows OS: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -58.8%; 12-Mth: -83.7%; 24-Mth: -80.8% HTML: 30-Day: 8.3%; 60-Day: -42.9%; 12-Mth: -78.3%; 24-Mth: -76.4% Perl: 30-Day: -8.3%; 60-Day: -33.3%; 12-Mth: -73.8%; 24-Mth: -71.8% Web Services: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -46.7%; 12-Mth: -69.2%; 24-Mth: -70.4% Flash: 30-Day: 200%; 60-Day: -66.7%; 12-Mth: -81.3%; 24-Mth: -72.7% Python: 30-Day: -14.3%; 60-Day: -30.0%; 12-Mth: -62.5%; 24-Mth: -40.0% Ruby: 30-Day: 33.3%; 60-Day: -40.0%; 12-Mth: -33.3%; 24-Mth: 300.0% Table 10: Growth by Skill (San Jose Metro) C++/VC++: 30-Day: -3.6%; 60-Day: -12.5%; 12-Mth: -46.0%; 24-Mth: -51.8% Java: 30-Day: 30-Day: 3.1%; 60-Day: -11.1%; 12-Mth: -53.5%; 24-Mth: -64.5% Linux: 30-Day: 30-Day: -3.8%; 60-Day: -25.7%; 12-Mth: -67.1%; 24-Mth: -69.1% Windows OS: 30-Day: 3.2%; 60-Day: -16.2%; 12-Mth: -63.6%; 24-Mth: -63.6% HTML: 30-Day: 30-Day: -15.4%; 60-Day: -27.8%; 12-Mth: -77.1%; 24-Mth: -85.1% Perl: 30-Day: -4.2%; 60-Day: -14.3%; 12-Mth: -63.6%; 24-Mth: -68.9% Web Services: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -27.3%; 12-Mth: -57.9%; 24-Mth: -65.2% Flash: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -14.3%; 12-Mth: -40.0%; 24-Mth: -50.0% Python: 30-Day: -9.1%; 60-Day: -15.4%; 12-Mth: -65.5%; 24-Mth: -63.0% Ruby: Data not available Oh, after typing all of this, I found the following at the bottom of the report: Additional information about SkillPROOF Inc. and job statistics are available at our web site at http://www.skillproof.com. SkillPROOF Inc. 510 Barnum Ave., Suite 402 Bridgeport, CT 06608 Ph: 917-463-3941 Fax: 815-642-8694 Email: subscriptions at skillproof.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Wed Feb 11 22:04:31 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:04:31 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Skills and the market In-Reply-To: <796D30FE-D4F5-475A-99C2-72BC39CE0338@glenjarvis.com> References: <796D30FE-D4F5-475A-99C2-72BC39CE0338@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: Look, everyone knows many of the Pythonic job reqs in recent years were for Google, or their subcontractors. So Bay-Area recruiters' perceptions of the Python job market boil down to whether Google was hiring and how fast. Their numbers will be overly weighted. I would like to see their numbers redone excluding Google and subcontractors; wouldn't it be more instructive to see Python job req growth/decline broken out by company and segment than raw growth/decline? I wonder if surveys of CraigsList (for SF, not SouthBay) support the same conclusion that Python jobs are shrinking 62.5% YOY. PS I cc: Chris Lozinski who runs the Python-Plone-Zope job boards http://python.specialtyjobmarkets.com/ http://plone.specialtyjobmarkets.com/ http://zope.specialtyjobmarkets.com/ (and also some for Django, RoR etc.) I had been discussing with him on and off for a year, and had suggested to him he drop by BayPIGgies next time he's in he Bay Area. Stephen ________________________________ > From: glen at glenjarvis.com > To: baypiggies at python.org > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:42:24 -0800 > Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Skills and the market > > I just received an *incredible* document from a recruiter (that I sadly don't remember talking to). However, after sending such a great document, I'll try to keep her in mind. > > I don't know proprietary the document is or how ethical it is to send as a whole to everyone in the group. So, I'll just retype the salient points. It's called the SkillProof Job Report for San Francisco Metro and San Jose Metro. > > National > Total IT job openings: 87,700 > 30 Day Growth: -10.6% > > San Francisco Metro > Total IT job openings: 970 > 30 Day Growth: -14.2 % > > Table 1: IT Job Openings, San Francisco Metro > > Jan 09: 970 > Dec 08: 1,130 > Nov 08: 1,960 > Jan 08: 4,650 > Jan 07: 4,110 > > Table 2: IT Job Openings, Silicon Valley > Jan 09: 1, 800 > Dec 08: 1,910 > Nov 08: 2,410 > Jan 08: 5,020 > Jan 07: 5,480 > > There are several more tables regarding IT Job Opening estimated by category which are helpful... (but I won't include here) > > There's also a "Top 30 needed skills" table. I will omit the Job opening data, but show the list ranked by technology until we get to Python > > Table 7: San Francisco Metro > 1. SQL > 2. C++/VC++ > 3. Java > 4. Linux > 5. Large system technologies > 6. Windows OS > 7. HTML > 8. Unix > 9. Perl > 10. Mainframe O/S > 11. XML > 12. Business Analysis > 13. MVS > 14. Oracle DBMS > 15. DB2 (IBM) > 16. Web Services > 17. JavaScript > 18. JCL > 19. COBOL > 20. Flash > 21. Python > .... > > > Table 8: San Jose Metro > 1. C++/VC++ > 2. Unix > 3. Java > 4. Windows OS > 5. Linux > 6. Perl > 7. OO (analysis / design/ programming) > 8. Max OS/X > 9. SAP > 10. SQL > 11. XML > 12. HTML > 13. Business Analysis > 14. Wireless > 15. Python > ... > > But, what is *most* interesting to me is the Growth by Skill Table. There are many, *many* skills. I'll try only to list the ones relevant to Python. > > Table 9: Growth by Skill (San Francisco Metro) > C++/VC++: 30-Day: -22.2%; 60-Day: -38.6%; 12 Mth -66.7^; 24 Mth: -58.8% > Java: 30-Day: 5.0%; 60-Day: -47.4%; 12-Mth: -79.2%; 24-Mth: -78.8% > Linux: 30-Day: 6.3%; 60-Day: -50%; 12-Mth: -74.6%; 24-Mth: -72.6% > Windows OS: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -58.8%; 12-Mth: -83.7%; 24-Mth: -80.8% > HTML: 30-Day: 8.3%; 60-Day: -42.9%; 12-Mth: -78.3%; 24-Mth: -76.4% > Perl: 30-Day: -8.3%; 60-Day: -33.3%; 12-Mth: -73.8%; 24-Mth: -71.8% > Web Services: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -46.7%; 12-Mth: -69.2%; 24-Mth: -70.4% > Flash: 30-Day: 200%; 60-Day: -66.7%; 12-Mth: -81.3%; 24-Mth: -72.7% > Python: 30-Day: -14.3%; 60-Day: -30.0%; 12-Mth: -62.5%; 24-Mth: -40.0% > Ruby: 30-Day: 33.3%; 60-Day: -40.0%; 12-Mth: -33.3%; 24-Mth: 300.0% > > > Table 10: Growth by Skill (San Jose Metro) > C++/VC++: 30-Day: -3.6%; 60-Day: -12.5%; 12-Mth: -46.0%; 24-Mth: -51.8% > Java: 30-Day: 30-Day: 3.1%; 60-Day: -11.1%; 12-Mth: -53.5%; 24-Mth: -64.5% > Linux: 30-Day: 30-Day: -3.8%; 60-Day: -25.7%; 12-Mth: -67.1%; 24-Mth: -69.1% > Windows OS: 30-Day: 3.2%; 60-Day: -16.2%; 12-Mth: -63.6%; 24-Mth: -63.6% > HTML: 30-Day: 30-Day: -15.4%; 60-Day: -27.8%; 12-Mth: -77.1%; 24-Mth: -85.1% > Perl: 30-Day: -4.2%; 60-Day: -14.3%; 12-Mth: -63.6%; 24-Mth: -68.9% > Web Services: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -27.3%; 12-Mth: -57.9%; 24-Mth: -65.2% > Flash: 30-Day: 0.0%; 60-Day: -14.3%; 12-Mth: -40.0%; 24-Mth: -50.0% > Python: 30-Day: -9.1%; 60-Day: -15.4%; 12-Mth: -65.5%; 24-Mth: -63.0% > Ruby: Data not available > > > > Oh, after typing all of this, I found the following at the bottom of the report: > > Additional information about SkillPROOF Inc. and job statistics are available at our web site at http://www.skillproof.com. > SkillPROOF Inc. > 510 Barnum Ave., Suite 402 > Bridgeport, CT 06608 > Ph: 917-463-3941 > Fax: 815-642-8694 > Email: subscriptions at skillproof.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Feb 12 04:07:41 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:07:41 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick Message-ID: I'm very confused about something so simple. I'm learning to use Sphinx. I want to make certain I use the reStructured Text properly in my project documentation, so I thought I'd install Sphinx and actually look at my documentation to verify it looks they way I thin it should. I can't get my Sphinx project to build the files I've added. I'm certain it's user error, but I can't find it. I've read the documentation several times -- enough to be completely confused at something simple. My core confusion comes from how I have structured my Django project. My project has a similar structure to this: -- myproject + settings.py and other misc files +---- grants +---- models.py I've gotten a good part of the project working, but I can't get the documentation piece to work. I've used sphinx-quickstart, and chose a structure like this: -- myproject + settings.py and other misc files +---- grants +---- models.py +---- docs +---- build |---- Makefile + source +---- models.py +---- index.rst +---- conf.py But, I'm confused. It seems that sphinx-quickstart needs files to be located in the docs/source directory. I can rebuild it so that this is the case, but it's some work to rearrange my subversion repository. Before I do something so extreme, I'm trying to test my understanding. Currently, my index.rst file looks similar to this: Contents: .. toctree:: :maxdepth: 2 models.py I've copied certain files into the source directory to see if I can generate documentation. But, even then, I see the following: > make html Sphinx v0.5.1, building html WARNING: /home/gjarvis/trunk/docs/source/index.rst:10: (WARNING/2) toctree references unknown document u'models.py' Before I tried these tests, I had created a symbolic ilnk from myproject/docs/source/models.py to myproject.grants/models.py, and that seemed to generate the file... but, I've seen results that seem contradictory enough I'm completely confused... Can anyone point me to some clear documentation, or give me some pointers on what my misunderstanding is about? Also, which of the two 'structures' am I to use with Sphinx. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Cheers, Glen -- 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.glenjarvis.com "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Thu Feb 12 04:36:11 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:36:11 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1234409771.6719.351.camel@jim-laptop> i say let's help glen develop a baypiggies talk on restructured text for pythonistas. On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 19:07 -0800, Glen Jarvis wrote: > I'm very confused about something so simple. > > > I'm learning to use Sphinx. I want to make certain I use the > reStructured Text properly in my project documentation, so I thought > I'd install Sphinx and actually look at my documentation to verify it > looks they way I thin it should. > > > I can't get my Sphinx project to build the files I've added. I'm > certain it's user error, but I can't find it. I've read the > documentation several times -- enough to be completely confused at > something simple. > > > My core confusion comes from how I have structured my Django project. > My project has a similar structure to this: > > > -- myproject > + settings.py and other misc files > +---- grants > +---- models.py > > > I've gotten a good part of the project working, but I can't get the > documentation piece to work. > > > I've used sphinx-quickstart, and chose a structure like this: > > > -- myproject > + settings.py and other misc files > +---- grants > +---- models.py > +---- docs > +---- build > |---- Makefile > + source > +---- models.py > +---- index.rst > +---- conf.py > > > But, I'm confused. It seems that sphinx-quickstart needs files to be > located in the docs/source directory. I can rebuild it so that this is > the case, but it's some work to rearrange my subversion repository. > Before I do something so extreme, I'm trying to test my > understanding. > > > Currently, my index.rst file looks similar to this: > > > Contents: > > > .. toctree:: > :maxdepth: 2 > > > models.py > > > > > > > I've copied certain files into the source directory to see if I can > generate documentation. But, even then, I see the following: > > > > make html > Sphinx v0.5.1, building html > WARNING: /home/gjarvis/trunk/docs/source/index.rst:10: (WARNING/2) > toctree references unknown document u'models.py' > > > Before I tried these tests, I had created a symbolic ilnk from > myproject/docs/source/models.py to myproject.grants/models.py, and > that seemed to generate the file... but, I've seen results that seem > contradictory enough I'm completely confused... > > > > > Can anyone point me to some clear documentation, or give me some > pointers on what my misunderstanding is about? Also, which of the two > 'structures' am I to use with Sphinx. > > > > > Thanks in advance for any help you can give. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Glen > -- > 415-680-3964 > glen at glenjarvis.com > http://www.glenjarvis.com > > > "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Feb 12 04:46:28 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:46:28 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick In-Reply-To: <1234409771.6719.351.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1234409771.6719.351.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: hehehe.. sure! If I can get past this, I can give a talk on it. I think we're pretty booked up until around June. So, that gives me plenty of time to discuss documentation, restructured text, and Sphinx. I know JJ will have a few things to say about it too =) Glen -- 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.glenjarvis.com "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:36 PM, jim wrote: > > > i say let's help glen develop a baypiggies > talk on restructured text for pythonistas. > > > > On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 19:07 -0800, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> I'm very confused about something so simple. >> >> >> I'm learning to use Sphinx. I want to make certain I use the >> reStructured Text properly in my project documentation, so I thought >> I'd install Sphinx and actually look at my documentation to verify it >> looks they way I thin it should. >> >> >> I can't get my Sphinx project to build the files I've added. I'm >> certain it's user error, but I can't find it. I've read the >> documentation several times -- enough to be completely confused at >> something simple. >> >> >> My core confusion comes from how I have structured my Django project. >> My project has a similar structure to this: >> >> >> -- myproject >> + settings.py and other misc files >> +---- grants >> +---- models.py >> >> >> I've gotten a good part of the project working, but I can't get the >> documentation piece to work. >> >> >> I've used sphinx-quickstart, and chose a structure like this: >> >> >> -- myproject >> + settings.py and other misc files >> +---- grants >> +---- models.py >> +---- docs >> +---- build >> |---- Makefile >> + source >> +---- models.py >> +---- index.rst >> +---- conf.py >> >> >> But, I'm confused. It seems that sphinx-quickstart needs files to be >> located in the docs/source directory. I can rebuild it so that this >> is >> the case, but it's some work to rearrange my subversion repository. >> Before I do something so extreme, I'm trying to test my >> understanding. >> >> >> Currently, my index.rst file looks similar to this: >> >> >> Contents: >> >> >> .. toctree:: >> :maxdepth: 2 >> >> >> models.py >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I've copied certain files into the source directory to see if I can >> generate documentation. But, even then, I see the following: >> >> >>> make html >> Sphinx v0.5.1, building html >> WARNING: /home/gjarvis/trunk/docs/source/index.rst:10: (WARNING/2) >> toctree references unknown document u'models.py' >> >> >> Before I tried these tests, I had created a symbolic ilnk from >> myproject/docs/source/models.py to myproject.grants/models.py, and >> that seemed to generate the file... but, I've seen results that seem >> contradictory enough I'm completely confused... >> >> >> >> >> Can anyone point me to some clear documentation, or give me some >> pointers on what my misunderstanding is about? Also, which of the two >> 'structures' am I to use with Sphinx. >> >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any help you can give. >> >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> >> Glen >> -- >> 415-680-3964 >> glen at glenjarvis.com >> http://www.glenjarvis.com >> >> >> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From aahz at pythoncraft.com Thu Feb 12 04:55:19 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:55:19 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090212035519.GA16731@panix.com> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009, Glen Jarvis wrote: > > I'm very confused about something so simple. > > I'm learning to use Sphinx. I want to make certain I use the > reStructured Text properly in my project documentation, so I thought I'd > install Sphinx and actually look at my documentation to verify it looks > they way I thin it should. Ask on docutils-users or doc-sig if you don't get an answer here. (I haven't used reST recently or Sphinx at all, so I can't help.) -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. From mrjean1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 06:45:12 2009 From: mrjean1 at gmail.com (Jean Brouwers) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:45:12 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a48f50902112145gf5013c0pccd794a089f08074@mail.gmail.com> Glen, We use Sphinx in the Pympler project. The file structure under the doc directory is like the one you show above. The key files to get right are conf.py and index.rst in the doc/source directory. For examples, see The file or module names mentioned inside index.rst have no extensions: all names refer to .rst files. Hope this helps, /Jean Brouwers PS) Just FYI, we made 3 changes to run Sphinx in a pympler-dev environment. - The Makefile is not used and has been removed. - Sphinx is run using the sphinx.py script in the tools directory . - To build the docs, etc. we use the run.py script in the top level directory , see the run_sphinx function in there. Options --doctest, --html, --latex and --linkcheck end up running Sphinx. % ./run.py -h Usage: run.py [ ...] e.g. run.py --clean run.py --dist [--upload] [gztar] [zip] run.py --doctest run.py --html [--keep] run.py --latex [--paper=letter|a4] run.py --linkcheck run.py --pychecker [--OKd] [pympler | pympler/module] ... run.py --test [test | test/module | test/module/test_suite.py ...] Options: -h, --help show this help message and exit -a, --all run all tests and create all documentation -c, --clean remove bytecode files from source and test directories -d, --dist create the distributions -D, --doctest run the documentation tests -H, --html create the HTML documentation -k, --keep keep documentation in the doc directory -L, --latex create the LaTeX (PDF) documentation --paper=PAPER select LaTeX paper size (letter) -i, --linkcheck check the documentation links -p, --pychecker run static code analyzer PyChecker --OKd include PyChecker warnings OKd in source -t, --test run all or specific unit tests --upload upload distributions to the Python Cheese Shop -V V, --verbose=V set verbosity level (1) On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > I'm very confused about something so simple. > I'm learning to use Sphinx. I want to make certain I use the reStructured > Text properly in my project documentation, so I thought I'd install Sphinx > and actually look at my documentation to verify it looks they way I thin it > should. > I can't get my Sphinx project to build the files I've added. I'm certain > it's user error, but I can't find it. I've read the documentation several > times -- enough to be completely confused at something simple. > My core confusion comes from how I have structured my Django project. My > project has a similar structure to this: > -- myproject > + settings.py and other misc files > +---- grants > +---- models.py > I've gotten a good part of the project working, but I can't get the > documentation piece to work. > I've used sphinx-quickstart, and chose a structure like this: > -- myproject > + settings.py and other misc files > +---- grants > +---- models.py > +---- docs > +---- build > |---- Makefile > + source > +---- models.py > +---- index.rst > +---- conf.py > But, I'm confused. It seems that sphinx-quickstart needs files to be located > in the docs/source directory. I can rebuild it so that this is the case, but > it's some work to rearrange my subversion repository. Before I do something > so extreme, I'm trying to test my understanding. > Currently, my index.rst file looks similar to this: > Contents: > .. toctree:: > :maxdepth: 2 > models.py > > > I've copied certain files into the source directory to see if I can generate > documentation. But, even then, I see the following: >> make html > Sphinx v0.5.1, building html > WARNING: /home/gjarvis/trunk/docs/source/index.rst:10: (WARNING/2) toctree > references unknown document u'models.py' > Before I tried these tests, I had created a symbolic ilnk from > myproject/docs/source/models.py to myproject.grants/models.py, and that > seemed to generate the file... but, I've seen results that seem > contradictory enough I'm completely confused... > > Can anyone point me to some clear documentation, or give me some pointers on > what my misunderstanding is about? Also, which of the two 'structures' am I > to use with Sphinx. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can give. > > Cheers, > > Glen > -- > 415-680-3964 > glen at glenjarvis.com > http://www.glenjarvis.com > "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fperez.net at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 08:43:06 2009 From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:43:06 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Help: I'm being thick In-Reply-To: <1234409771.6719.351.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1234409771.6719.351.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:36 PM, jim wrote: > > > i say let's help glen develop a baypiggies > talk on restructured text for pythonistas. I'd planned to give such a talk next week at UC Berkeley as part of our scientific computing/python meetings: https://cirl.berkeley.edu/view/Py4Science where I would discuss our sphinx-based toolchain that we use for the site and docs in: http://neuroimaging.scipy.org/ We may have a visiting speaker instead, so the sphinx talk could get bumped to the next meeting (two weeks later). We'll update the wiki accordingly, please check there before coming if you are interested. Anyone who's near Berkeley at the time is welcome to stop by, it's an open lecture room. Cheers, f From donnamsnow at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 17:29:08 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:29:08 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: 1 more day to save $50! C2E Training: Creating Plone 3 Skins and Custom Views In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (please pass this on to any companies you know that have implemented Plone, thank you!) Hi, Save $50 if you sign up for the "Creating Plone 3 Skins and Custom Views" training session by February 14, 2009 (If you are already registered you'll get $50 in cash when you arrive at the training session) http://plone.org/events/training/c2e-creating-plone-3-skins-and-custom-views Enter save50 as the discount code and you'll get $50 off. Quick info: Date March 18 - March 20 Location Plug & Play Tech Center in Sunnyvale, California Instructor Donna M Snow, Plone integrator since 2001 *"We hired Donna to come train and consult our web team in the College of Public Programs. Our group is very diverse, including exprienced graphical designers, web programmers, and inexperienced office workers who were tasked with keeping web content updated. Donna was great and tackling and solving problems, finding solutions and making recommendations. Her experience and connections with the plone community were invaluable to us in helping our diverse user group better manage their various plone sites."* *David Bear, College of Public Programs at ASU* Best Regards, Donna M Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminating your path to Open Source http://www.csquaredtech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 02:29:03 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:29:03 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] other user groups in the area Message-ID: Hi, Needing to promote the living daylights out of upcoming Plone 3 training course. have any suggestions for good places to advertise? Other user groups in the area that might be interested? Thanks guys! Hoping I can make Feb meeting! Donna M Snow -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 02:49:52 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:49:52 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] other user groups in the area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Needing to promote the living daylights out of upcoming Plone 3 training course. >have any suggestions for good places to advertise? Other user groups in the area that might be interested? - 1) the 'Python' group on LibkedIn.com 2) I use LinkedIn.com/answers and it's brilliant Category: Technology > Web Devpt http://www.linkedin.com/answers/browse/technology/web-development/TCH_WDD You can simply ask: "Are you interested in attending this event?" (if this is for-profit or advertising your services, make sure to click those boxes to avoid violating TOS) 3) PS: there is a 'Python' group on LinkedIn but no 'BayPIGgies' one. Someone might like to start one. These do not incur any spam if you join. But they allow the concept of discussions within the group, and people can opt-in to email digest. 3b) There are several 'Plone' groups. I think you want one with a geographical focus, so again if ones doesn't exist, you might like to create it. Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 03:13:14 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:13:14 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] other user groups in the area In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank You Stephen, this is extremely helpful! Best Regards, Donna M Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > >Needing to promote the living daylights out of upcoming Plone 3 training > course. > >have any suggestions for good places to advertise? Other user groups in > the area that might be interested? > > - 1) the 'Python' group on LibkedIn.com > > 2) I use LinkedIn.com/answers and it's brilliant > > Category: Technology > Web Devpt > http://www.linkedin.com/answers/browse/technology/web-development/TCH_WDD > You can simply ask: "Are you interested in attending this event?" > (if this is for-profit or advertising your services, make sure to click > those boxes > to avoid violating TOS) > > 3) PS: there is a 'Python' group on LinkedIn but no 'BayPIGgies' one. > Someone might like > to start one. These do not incur any spam if you join. But they allow the > concept of > discussions within the group, and people can opt-in to email digest. > > 3b) There are several 'Plone' groups. I think you want one with a > geographical focus, > so again if ones doesn't exist, you might like to create it. > > Stephen > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. Check it > out. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ml at lolapps.com Tue Feb 17 19:58:58 2009 From: ml at lolapps.com (Mary Stephens) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:58:58 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Developer - Social Applications - Profitable Startup in SOMA Message-ID: <46e6e52d0902171058s3ea9ba29p968549306b54d6d@mail.gmail.com> About LOLapps We're a young and scrappy startup in the social application space. We're still fairly stealthy but you can read a bit more about us at http://www.insidefacebook.com/2008/09/09/white-label-app-platform-lolapps-raises-45-million-from-polaris-ventures/ . It's reasonably accurate as far as these type of things go. Here are a few bullets on us, because who doesn't love bullets? - We're profitable, which makes us pretty much the opposite of your typical echo chamber-spawned Si Valley startups. We're not in this to win a pat on the head from Michael Arrington. - We raised $4m in an A round with Polaris Ventures and value-add angels including Ron Conway and Ariel Poler. - We're only 12 people. You can make a MASSIVE impact here. - Our office is in San Francisco, currently the in the old Yelp space, but we plan to upgrade our digs soon (we'll still be in SF). - We have all the typical startup stuff (free food, Rock Band, exposed brick walls, etc). - If you like beer, check out our kitchen: http://lolapps.com/office.html . Responsibilities - Work with product management to break down high level goals into tasks and timelines - Design and implement large chunks of the product roadmap - Mentor junior engineers - Have a point of view on the product and be willing to debate it Requirements - Intelligent but not arrogant - Care more about the company and your group's goals rather than personal glory - Desire and ability to quickly learn new languages and technologies - 2+ years of experience as a software engineer - Appreciate owning a full spectrum of responsibilities from backend (SQL, memcache, etc) to frontend (JavaScript, FBML, FBJS) - Interested in using / learning Python - Detail-oriented: When someone sends you an email about something it automagically gets handled with no need for a follow-up - Interested in working in the social networking space - Comfortable working in an environment where ideas are thought of, described, and executed within a span of hours to days Desired Qualifications - Computer science or equivalent degree from a top computer science program - 1+ year working on a consumer facing web product with a high level of scale - Strong product sense - You write software for fun. You've worked on projects of your own outside of school or work - Entrepreneurial -- Mary Lee Stephens LOLapps Media 415-302-3767 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Neil_Katz at playstation.sony.com Wed Feb 18 15:20:59 2009 From: Neil_Katz at playstation.sony.com (Neil_Katz at playstation.sony.com) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:20:59 -0500 Subject: [Baypiggies] Sony Playstation - Python Developer Message-ID: Hi - we are looking to hire an intermediate level Python developer in our Foster City, CA office. If you or anyone you know is interested in this opportunity please contact me. Thanks, Neil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asheesh at asheesh.org Wed Feb 18 16:59:14 2009 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:59:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baypiggies] My PyCon tutorial: Scrape the Web Message-ID: I gave a rushed preview last month at Baypiggies of my web scraping tutorial. I didn't get a chance to show off my favorite tool: hijacking the web browser itself via Selenium Remote Control. You can sign up for my tutorial at PyCon and I'll personalize the presentation for you (if you email me with enough lead time) and the other students. Just sign up for PyCon and my tutorial and drop me a line. http://us.pycon.org/2009/tutorials/schedule/2AM8/ has some more info. PyCon will be fun! -- Asheesh. -- You will wish you hadn't. From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Tue Feb 24 23:45:07 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:45:07 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... In-Reply-To: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Seems timely for a reminder about this Thursday's meeting at the new new location Symantec in *Ellis St, Mountain View*. Seems we no longer need to sign up on the wiki except for people carpooling or using public transit who want to organize rideshares. In either case the wiki (needs updating - still has Jan details and Tech location) moved to: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup Best, Stephen > From: jim at well.com > Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec > > (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last > few years. Now we've moved.) > > Beginning February and for some months afterward, > baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at > 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 > on the fourth thursday of each month, > from 7:30 to 9 PM. > > For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein > possible additional talk on PyDev > Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam > > > At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: > > March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin > > April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions > for Computer Vision Research, by Damian Eads _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joeygartin at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 00:08:32 2009 From: joeygartin at gmail.com (Joey Gartin) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:08:32 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] RETS and python Message-ID: <1509de2b0902241508h45de6703kcfada7529272bcb@mail.gmail.com> Anyone played with RETS (Real Estate Transaction Standard) and python and/or django? I am about to start a django project that will be based around data from acquired from a RETS server. It would be nice to discuss issues/hurdles/ideas with someone that has experience with RETS. Thanks, -- Joey Gartin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donnamsnow at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 00:47:52 2009 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:47:52 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] [Training] 1/2 Price sale on seats at C2E Training for March 18-March 20, 2009 Message-ID: Hi, Only a few weeks away from our 3 day session on skinning Plone sites. We've slashed prices due to the economic climate and the fact that we really want to fill this class :-) This is a 3 day session focused on learning how to customize a Plone 3 site. We have experience with both Plone 2.5 style skinning and Plone 3 skinning so we can address your questions in regards to older versions. Interested? http://c2etraining.eventbrite.com (students who have purchased tickets at the higher price will be reimbursed!) (Don't use Plone or not interested in training at this point, please pass this on to associates, universities, or companies you know that do use Plone, thank you!!) Best Regards, Donna M Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminating your path to Open Source http://www.csquaredtech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Feb 25 22:52:28 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:52:28 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday February 26, 2009, Two Talks: The Factory Module and PyDev Message-ID: <1235598748.7421.62.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday February 26, 2009, Two Talks: The Factory Module and PyDev NOTE BayPIGgies is NO LONGER meeting at Google but at the Symantec Vcafe, at Symantec's location at 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. Tonight's talks are * The Factory Module by Pete Fein, author of the Factory module * A PyDev Primer by Nathan Ramella Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: Decorators by Charles Merriam NEW LOCATION FOR FEBRUARY 26, 2009 Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://baypiggies.net/new/plone About the Talks Factory is an object-oriented approach to partial function application, also known as "currying." Python 2.5 added support for currying with the addition of functools.partial: http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-309-partial-function-application The Factory module is a more powerful implementation of this pattern. Some improvements include: - safer, as invalid arguments are detected immediately, instead of at call time - intelligent support for classes, instance methods, and all other callables - bound arguments can be inspected and modified as attributes - several convenient methods for (re)binding arguments Using Factories can: - simplify writing callbacks - reduce bugs in concurrent applications - provide easy lazy evaluation This talk will demonstrate the Factory module and discuss its implementation and uses. Familiarity with currying is helpful but not required. More information is available at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Factory/ Tonight's second talk is a PyDev primer, which will cover the basics of PyDev and PyDev Extensions. ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: Decorators by Charles Merriam ..... 7:45 PM to 8:15 PM ................ The Factory Module by Pete Fein ..... 8:15 PM to 8:45 PM ................ A PyDev Primer by Nathan Ramella Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. ..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcers are interested in. Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on the announcements and other topics of interest. Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. From charles.merriam at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 08:36:15 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:36:15 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... Message-ID: In the spirit of just in time research for the newbie nugget tomorrow: What decorators do most people actually use? I expect everyone to use the built-in @classmethod, @staticmethod, and @property. Also, I expect usage of many of the recipes from http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary, like @memoize or @trace. Also, many different frameworks provide decorators for use with that framework. Am I missing something obvious? Also, there had been some chatter about making a standardized variable, like __decorators__[] which would hash the doc strings of each decorator used into a well behaved array of hashes. The arguments weren't the strongest, and from the lack of support in @functools.wrap, I assume it never occurred. Finally, several people from a well known search company had said the company banned use of decorators internally. If you are with that search company and can let me know the rational, I'd be curious. You can email me off list if you prefer. I'm trying to finish a couple interesting class decorators for examples. Have a great day, Charles Merriam charles.merriam at gmail.com From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 09:56:15 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:56:15 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Charles Merriam wrote: > In the spirit of just in time research for the newbie nugget tomorrow: > > What decorators do most people actually use? ?I expect everyone to use > the built-in @classmethod, @staticmethod, and @property. ? Also, I > expect usage of many of the recipes from > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary, like @memoize or > @trace. ? Also, many different frameworks provide decorators for use > with that framework. ?Am I missing something obvious? > > Also, there had been some chatter about making a standardized > variable, like __decorators__[] which would hash the doc strings of > each decorator used into a well behaved array of hashes. ?The > arguments weren't the strongest, and from the lack of support in > @functools.wrap, I assume it never occurred. > > Finally, several people from a well known search company had said the > company banned use of decorators internally. ? If you are with that > search company and can let me know the rational, I'd be curious. ?You > can email me off list if you prefer. > > I'm trying to finish a couple interesting class decorators for examples. > > Have a great day, One of my favorite decorators is the decorator decorator: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/decorator It makes decorating other functions with decorators quite pleasant. Pylons uses it too. -jj -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:11:10 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:11:10 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: You feel like doing it, Stephen? ;) -jj On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > > Seems timely for a reminder about this Thursday's meeting at > the new new location Symantec in *Ellis St, Mountain View*. > > Seems we no longer need to sign up on the wiki except for people carpooling > or using public transit who want to organize rideshares. > In either case the wiki (needs updating - still has Jan details and Tech > location) moved to: > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup > > Best, > Stephen > >> From: jim at well.com >> Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec >> >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last >> few years. Now we've moved.) >> >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 >> on the fourth thursday of each month, >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. >> >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein >> possible additional talk on PyDev >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam >> >> >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: >> >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin >> >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions >> for Computer Vision Research, by Damian Eads > > > ________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. See how it works. > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:31:26 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:31:26 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Guys, No, because the wiki no longer has a point, since December - except for the small subset of people who want to rideshare - which I pointed out - although I should have been more clear. My comment was along the lines of "unless Symantec's security need a signin wiki (which I don't think they do?), the wiki's obsolete and people already stopped using it, so don't be surprised that it's stale" One side-effect of not having a wiki is we have no signin sheet for all users, which is nice info to have. You can see people stopped signing up on the wiki back in January already. Whoever is the Symantec contact (Hans?) may or may not want to add logistic details on the wiki; I've never been inside Symantec Ellis St, so I don't want to tell people the wrong things, like can we all park there, or where the nearest Caltrain stop with regular service is (Castro St I suspect), or whether it's faster to walk/cycle from Castro St or take the VTA or bus (which one?). I know nothing about things like that, otherwise I'd add them. (I had intended to _maybe_ look into programming an RSVP and rideshare widget, which might be a neat Plone hack, but I won't have time for that till July, so no promise. ) Anyway that's all. I should have been more clear. Best, S > Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:11:10 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... > From: jjinux at gmail.com > To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com > CC: jim at well.com; baypiggies at python.org > > You feel like doing it, Stephen? ;) > > -jj > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Stephen McInerney > wrote: > > > > Seems timely for a reminder about this Thursday's meeting at > > the new new location Symantec in *Ellis St, Mountain View*. > > > > Seems we no longer need to sign up on the wiki except for people carpooling > > or using public transit who want to organize rideshares. > > In either case the wiki (needs updating - still has Jan details and Tech > > location) moved to: > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup > > > > Best, > > Stephen > > > >> From: jim at well.com > >> Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec > >> > >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last > >> few years. Now we've moved.) > >> > >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, > >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at > >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 > >> on the fourth thursday of each month, > >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. > >> > >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein > >> possible additional talk on PyDev > >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam > >> > >> > >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: > >> > >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin > >> > >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions > >> for Computer Vision Research, by Damian Eads > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. See how it works. > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:36:17 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:36:17 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: I guess I should have been more clear too. I was suggesting you delete everything that's not interesting and just put in some stuff about carpooling, etc. -jj On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Stephen McInerney wrote: > Guys, > > No, because the wiki no longer has a point, since December - except for the > small subset of people who want to rideshare - which I pointed out - > although > I should have been more clear. > My comment was along the lines of "unless Symantec's security need a signin > wiki > (which I don't think they do?), the wiki's obsolete and people already > stopped using it, > so don't be surprised that it's stale" > One side-effect of not having a wiki is we have no signin sheet for all > users, which is nice info to have. > You can see people stopped signing up on the wiki back in January already. > Whoever is the Symantec contact (Hans?) may or may not want to add logistic > details on the wiki; I've never been inside Symantec Ellis St, so I don't > want to tell > people the wrong things, like can we all park there, or where the nearest > Caltrain stop > with regular service is (Castro St I suspect), or whether it's faster to > walk/cycle from > Castro St or take the VTA or bus (which one?). I know nothing about things > like that, > otherwise I'd add them. > > (I had intended to _maybe_ look into programming an RSVP and rideshare > widget, > which might be a neat Plone hack, but I won't have time for that till July, > so no promise. ) > > Anyway that's all. I should have been more clear. > > Best, > S > > > >> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:11:10 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at >> Symantec... >> From: jjinux at gmail.com >> To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com >> CC: jim at well.com; baypiggies at python.org >> >> You feel like doing it, Stephen? ;) >> >> -jj >> >> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Stephen McInerney >> wrote: >> > >> > Seems timely for a reminder about this Thursday's meeting at >> > the new new location Symantec in *Ellis St, Mountain View*. >> > >> > Seems we no longer need to sign up on the wiki except for people >> > carpooling >> > or using public transit who want to organize rideshares. >> > In either case the wiki (needs updating - still has Jan details and Tech >> > location) moved to: >> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup >> > >> > Best, >> > Stephen >> > >> >> From: jim at well.com >> >> Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec >> >> >> >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last >> >> few years. Now we've moved.) >> >> >> >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, >> >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at >> >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 >> >> on the fourth thursday of each month, >> >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. >> >> >> >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein >> >> possible additional talk on PyDev >> >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam >> >> >> >> >> >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: >> >> >> >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin >> >> >> >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions >> >> for Computer Vision Research, by Damian Eads >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. See how it works. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Baypiggies mailing list >> > Baypiggies at python.org >> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things >> with great love. -- Mother Teresa >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________ > It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. Get your > account now. -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 11:19:10 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:19:10 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Done. It's badly lacking logistics details if anyone else can fill 'em in. Apparently it's 21 min by VTA+walk / 35 min walk from MV Caltrain. So public transit folks may need carpooling, or else update what I wrote. If we no longer have advance sign-in or badging, then we should probably make a point at every meeting to emphasize the mapping segment and new attendees or out-of-towners are particularly welcome to stand up and briefly introduce themselves and their interests. Otherwise noone knows who they are or what their affiliation is - esp if there will no longer be any badges. Just a thought. See you there, - Stephen > Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:36:17 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at Symantec... > From: jjinux at gmail.com > To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com > CC: jim at well.com; baypiggies at python.org > > I guess I should have been more clear too. I was suggesting you > delete everything that's not interesting and just put in some stuff > about carpooling, etc. > > -jj > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Stephen McInerney > wrote: > > Guys, > > > > No, because the wiki no longer has a point, since December - except for the > > small subset of people who want to rideshare - which I pointed out - > > although > > I should have been more clear. > > My comment was along the lines of "unless Symantec's security need a signin > > wiki > > (which I don't think they do?), the wiki's obsolete and people already > > stopped using it, > > so don't be surprised that it's stale" > > One side-effect of not having a wiki is we have no signin sheet for all > > users, which is nice info to have. > > You can see people stopped signing up on the wiki back in January already. > > Whoever is the Symantec contact (Hans?) may or may not want to add logistic > > details on the wiki; I've never been inside Symantec Ellis St, so I don't > > want to tell > > people the wrong things, like can we all park there, or where the nearest > > Caltrain stop > > with regular service is (Castro St I suspect), or whether it's faster to > > walk/cycle from > > Castro St or take the VTA or bus (which one?). I know nothing about things > > like that, > > otherwise I'd add them. > > > > (I had intended to _maybe_ look into programming an RSVP and rideshare > > widget, > > which might be a neat Plone hack, but I won't have time for that till July, > > so no promise. ) > > > > Anyway that's all. I should have been more clear. > > > > Best, > > S > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:11:10 -0800 > >> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Time for a reminder about meeting Thu 2/26 at > >> Symantec... > >> From: jjinux at gmail.com > >> To: spmcinerney at hotmail.com > >> CC: jim at well.com; baypiggies at python.org > >> > >> You feel like doing it, Stephen? ;) > >> > >> -jj > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Stephen McInerney > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Seems timely for a reminder about this Thursday's meeting at > >> > the new new location Symantec in *Ellis St, Mountain View*. > >> > > >> > Seems we no longer need to sign up on the wiki except for people > >> > carpooling > >> > or using public transit who want to organize rideshares. > >> > In either case the wiki (needs updating - still has Jan details and Tech > >> > location) moved to: > >> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Stephen > >> > > >> >> From: jim at well.com > >> >> Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec > >> >> > >> >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last > >> >> few years. Now we've moved.) > >> >> > >> >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, > >> >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at > >> >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 > >> >> on the fourth thursday of each month, > >> >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. > >> >> > >> >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein > >> >> possible additional talk on PyDev > >> >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: > >> >> > >> >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin > >> >> > >> >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions > >> >> for Computer Vision Research, by Damian Eads > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. See how it works. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Baypiggies mailing list > >> > Baypiggies at python.org > >> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > >> with great love. -- Mother Teresa > >> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > > > > ________________________________ > > It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. Get your > > account now. > > > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.e.smith1 at lmco.com Thu Feb 26 12:23:57 2009 From: robert.e.smith1 at lmco.com (Smith1, Robert E) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:23:57 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Light Rail Service Message-ID: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> > Apparently it's 21 min by VTA+walk / 35 min walk from MV Caltrain. There is a VTA Light Rail station across Ellis Street (and behind the buildings/parking lots on that side) from the Symantec building. It is called the Middlefield station. It takes approximately 8 minutes to get there from the VTA Mountain View station which is next to the Mountain View Cal-Train station. The departure times from the Mountain View Station are: 6:34pm 6:49pm 7:04pm 7:20pm 7:48pm http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902SO_WK.html The departure times from the Middlefield station going back to Mountain View would be approximately: 8:57pm 9:27pm 9:55pm http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902NO_WK.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 13:20:26 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:20:26 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Light Rail Service In-Reply-To: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> References: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: Robert - Yes I already put links to VTA 902 on the wiki earlier: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup Feel free to update/correct any or all of that wiki. And everyone else too. The time estimates came from Google Maps public transit information, it estimated 21(!) min for VTA+walk, it seemed to think there was some walking between Caltrain to VTA, if that Google Maps estimate is off we know whose fault that is... To get there on time, people would want to get the 7:20pm VTA at the latest, I think. For returning to MV Caltrain after the meeting, shouldn't be hard to just ask for a ride off other people leaving (e.g me). Tied House is not a bad after-meeting hangout, it's on Castro St very close to the train, the beer is good and they do decent food till 10pm. Sure beats the In'n'Out Burger we had started frequenting. Maybe we should hit Tied House up for a BayPIGgies group discount... Stephen Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:23:57 -0800 From: robert.e.smith1 at lmco.com To: baypiggies at python.org Subject: [Baypiggies] Light Rail Service > Apparently it's 21 min by VTA+walk / 35 min walk from MV Caltrain. There is a VTA Light Rail station across Ellis Street (and behind the buildings/parking lots on that side) from the Symantec building. It is called the Middlefield station. It takes approximately 8 minutes to get there from the VTA Mountain View station which is next to the Mountain View Cal-Train station. The departure times from the Mountain View Station are: 6:34pm 6:49pm 7:04pm 7:20pm 7:48pm http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902SO_WK.html The departure times from the Middlefield station going back to Mountain View would be approximately: 8:57pm 9:27pm 9:55pm http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902NO_WK.html _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tcapp.com Thu Feb 26 15:45:12 2009 From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 06:45:12 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Light Rail Service In-Reply-To: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> References: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0902260645q6969bfes2077a9ec2857f735@mail.gmail.com> If anyone needs a ride from Light Rail or Caltrian, send me a private email. On 2/26/09, Smith1, Robert E wrote: > > > > > > Apparently it's 21 min by VTA+walk / 35 min walk from MV Caltrain. > > > > There is a VTA Light Rail station across Ellis Street (and behind the > buildings/parking lots on that side) from the Symantec building. It is > called the Middlefield station. It takes approximately 8 minutes to get > there from the VTA Mountain View station which is next to the Mountain View > Cal-Train station. The departure times from the Mountain View Station are: > > > > 6:34pm > > > > > 6:49pm > > > > > 7:04pm > > > > 7:20pm > > > > > 7:48pm > > > > http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902SO_WK.html > > > > The departure times from the Middlefield station going back to Mountain View > would be approximately: > > 8:57pm > > 9:27pm > > 9:55pm > > > > http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_902NO_WK.html > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From pfein at pobox.com Thu Feb 26 19:29:10 2009 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:29:10 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <759A1B42-6EEA-4B00-8C93-A65C50E0EE47@pobox.com> On Feb 25, 2009, at 11:36 PM, Charles Merriam wrote: > In the spirit of just in time research for the newbie nugget tomorrow: > > What decorators do most people actually use? I expect everyone to use > the built-in @classmethod, @staticmethod, and @property. Also, I > expect usage of many of the recipes from > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary, like @memoize or > @trace. Also, many different frameworks provide decorators for use > with that framework. Am I missing something obvious? I write my own with fair regularity... they're a good way of reducing boilerplate code (in addition to the magic they can be used for): def tryCommit(f): @wraps(f) def wrapper(self, *args, **kwargs): try: ret=f(self, *args, **kwargs) except: self.connection.rollback() raise else: self.connection.commit() return ret return wrapper From dalke at dalkescientific.com Thu Feb 26 21:00:01 2009 From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:00:01 +0100 Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 26, 2009, at 8:36 AM, Charles Merriam wrote: > What decorators do most people actually use? In the world of Python code, or the ones which come with Python? Turbogears uses decorators. It's what got me into understanding more about when to use them. nose uses decorators for a few things. One of the test frameworks (nose? py.test?) lets you label tests through decorators, so you can select, say, "fast" tests. mock uses them for patching objects: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock.html PLY has the @TOKEN decorator, which is handy for autogenerated patterns instead of using docstrings. Zope uses the "apply" decorator in a few places, which was weird the first time I saw it @apply def f(): ... code here ... return result I didn't realize 'apply' was a useful decorator. Did you? :) > Andrew dalke at dalkescientific.com From asheesh at asheesh.org Thu Feb 26 21:58:22 2009 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:58:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Charles Merriam wrote: > In the spirit of just in time research for the newbie nugget tomorrow: > > What decorators do most people actually use? I *frequently* use a @trace decorator. It reminds me of the lovely days of the TRACE macro in Common Lisp. I typically write my own, but given a good standard-ish one I could use that. -- Asheesh. -- Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose. From pfein at pobox.com Thu Feb 26 22:32:58 2009 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:32:58 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking about heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, jim wrote: > > (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last > few years. Now we've moved.) > > Beginning February and for some months afterward, > baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at > 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 > on the fourth thursday of each month, > from 7:30 to 9 PM. > > For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein > possible additional talk on PyDev > Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam > > > At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: > > March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin > > April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions > for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 22:45:29 2009 From: stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com (Stephen Cattaneo) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:45:29 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <0317F283-36AF-4554-8B8B-F04C43F79116@gmail.com> Yelp.com says 'Red rock coffee co' has free wifi & is 5 minutes away. -S -- I am jack's amusing signature. On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking > about heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the > house. ;-) > > > On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, jim wrote: > >> >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last >> few years. Now we've moved.) >> >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 >> on the fourth thursday of each month, >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. >> >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein >> possible additional talk on PyDev >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam >> >> >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: >> >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin >> >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions >> for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From wescpy at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 22:48:41 2009 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:48:41 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: <0317F283-36AF-4554-8B8B-F04C43F79116@gmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <0317F283-36AF-4554-8B8B-F04C43F79116@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580902261348y37dee185rfa765001596328e2@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Yelp.com says 'Red rock coffee co' has free wifi & is 5 minutes away. > > On Feb 26, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: >> Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? ?Thinking about >> heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) they, and a couple of the chinese tea bars closeby also do, but parking on/near castro around dinnertime is a nightmare. good luck! -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From bsergean at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 23:01:56 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:01:56 -0500 Subject: [Baypiggies] A few decorator questions... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1621f9fa0902261401q72a667a8tc59a028a613b278a@mail.gmail.com> A cool decorator I found on ActiveState is one that does memoization. It caches the results of a function in a dictionary. The key is the parameters, the value is the return value of your function. I use it for recursive function sometimes needed when trying to solve computer puzzles (Project Euler :) - Benjamin # http://code.activestate.com/recipes/466320/ from cPickle import dumps, PicklingError # for memoize class memoize(object): """Decorator that caches a function's return value each time it is called. If called later with the same arguments, the cached value is returned, and not re-evaluated. Slow for mutable types.""" # Ideas from MemoizeMutable class of Recipe 52201 by Paul Moore and # from memoized decorator of http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonDecoratorLibrary # For a version with timeout see Recipe 325905 # For a self cleaning version see Recipe 440678 # Weak references (a dict with weak values) can be used, like this: # self._cache = weakref.WeakValueDictionary() # but the keys of such dict can't be int def __init__(self, func): self.func = func self._cache = {} def __call__(self, *args, **kwds): key = args if kwds: items = kwds.items() items.sort() key = key + tuple(items) try: if key in self._cache: return self._cache[key] self._cache[key] = result = self.func(*args, **kwds) return result except TypeError: try: dump = dumps(key) except PicklingError: return self.func(*args, **kwds) else: if dump in self._cache: return self._cache[dump] self._cache[dump] = result = self.func(*args, **kwds) return result On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Asheesh Laroia wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Charles Merriam wrote: > > In the spirit of just in time research for the newbie nugget tomorrow: >> >> What decorators do most people actually use? >> > > I *frequently* use a @trace decorator. It reminds me of the lovely days of > the TRACE macro in Common Lisp. I typically write my own, but given a good > standard-ish one I could use that. > > -- Asheesh. > > -- > Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose. > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andywiggin at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 23:14:41 2009 From: andywiggin at gmail.com (Andy Wiggin) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:14:41 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <74e7428a0902261414g69ee6d18l91261279ea9a4aee@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? ?Thinking about > heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) There is a Peet's Coffee on Ellis about a half block from Symantec (towards 101, opposite side of Ellis). I drive by it every day but haven't been in it. I'm not sure of it's laptop friendliness... -Andy From bsergean at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 23:21:51 2009 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:21:51 -0500 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: <74e7428a0902261414g69ee6d18l91261279ea9a4aee@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <74e7428a0902261414g69ee6d18l91261279ea9a4aee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0902261421i4715c3f6xa31d950b6b105dee@mail.gmail.com> Anyplace might be good in Mountain View because there is the Google Free Wifi there, that I could catch with my ipod (the connection was dropping sometimes, and you need a google account). - Benjamin On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Andy Wiggin wrote: > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking about > > heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) > > There is a Peet's Coffee on Ellis about a half block from Symantec > (towards 101, opposite side of Ellis). I drive by it every day but > haven't been in it. I'm not sure of it's laptop friendliness... -Andy > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nar at hush.com Fri Feb 27 01:31:00 2009 From: nar at hush.com (Nathan Ramella) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:31:00 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Unable to attend tonights meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> Hi guys, I apologize for the short notice but something has cropped up that will keep me on the Santa Cruz side of the hill tonight -- I will be unable to give my pydev primer -- however I have all the slides/talk written so if there is interest I can put together a presentation to put up on youtube, although that doesn't do much for the gap in tonights schedule for which I am very apologetic. Sincerely, -Nathan From charles.merriam at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 01:36:11 2009 From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:36:11 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Unable to attend tonights meeting In-Reply-To: <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> Message-ID: Hm... I'll write an expansion of my talk on Decorators. I've got a few hours until the meeting. :) Charles On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Nathan Ramella wrote: > Hi guys, > > I apologize for the short notice but something has cropped up that will keep > me on the Santa Cruz side of the hill tonight -- I will be unable to give my > pydev primer -- however I have all the slides/talk written so if there is > interest I can put together a presentation to put up on youtube, although > that doesn't do much for the gap in tonights schedule for which I am very > apologetic. > > Sincerely, > > -Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 01:46:14 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:46:14 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Ride from Caltrain; Tied House afterwards? In-Reply-To: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF1925D0A1@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> References: <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF19225F51@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> <8249c4ac0902260645q6969bfes2077a9ec2857f735@mail.gmail.com> <18E2675C0D478E4494108B55120A61AF1925D0A1@emss01m15.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: - If anyone else needs a ride from Light Rail or Caltrain, send me a private email by 6:30pm. (similar to Tony's offer) - any interest in Tied House afterwards? Stephen _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Same_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 01:48:11 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:48:11 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Unable to attend tonights meeting In-Reply-To: <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> Message-ID: Charles, Let's split the additional time. Let's do two longish newbie nuggets. I can cover parsing Wikipedia dumps using SAX. http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2009/01/python-parsing-wikipedia-dumps-using.html -jj On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Nathan Ramella wrote: > Hi guys, > > I apologize for the short notice but something has cropped up that will keep > me on the Santa Cruz side of the hill tonight -- I will be unable to give my > pydev primer -- however I have all the slides/talk written so if there is > interest I can put together a presentation to put up on youtube, although > that doesn't do much for the gap in tonights schedule for which I am very > apologetic. > > Sincerely, > > -Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 02:03:15 2009 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:03:15 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Unable to attend tonights meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <73333bfe1dd256ee9b31125e02f89cf3@smtp.hushmail.com> Message-ID: By the way, if you're interested in PyDev, you might also be interested in my reviews of NetBeans and jVi: http://jjinux.blogspot.com/search?q=netbeans -jj On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Charles, > > Let's split the additional time. ?Let's do two longish newbie nuggets. > ?I can cover parsing Wikipedia dumps using SAX. > > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2009/01/python-parsing-wikipedia-dumps-using.html > > -jj > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Nathan Ramella wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> I apologize for the short notice but something has cropped up that will keep >> me on the Santa Cruz side of the hill tonight -- I will be unable to give my >> pydev primer -- however I have all the slides/talk written so if there is >> interest I can put together a presentation to put up on youtube, although >> that doesn't do much for the gap in tonights schedule for which I am very >> apologetic. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> -Nathan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > > > -- > In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things > with great love. -- Mother Teresa > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > -- In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 03:13:25 2009 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:13:25 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0902261421i4715c3f6xa31d950b6b105dee@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <74e7428a0902261414g69ee6d18l91261279ea9a4aee@mail.gmail.com> <1621f9fa0902261421i4715c3f6xa31d950b6b105dee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Please do add useful stuff like this to the wiki: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesMeetingSignup Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:21:51 -0500 From: bsergean at gmail.com To: andywiggin at gmail.com CC: baypiggies at python.org Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec Anyplace might be good in Mountain View because there is the Google Free Wifi there, that I could catch with my ipod (the connection was dropping sometimes, and you need a google account). - Benjamin On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Andy Wiggin wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking about > heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) There is a Peet's Coffee on Ellis about a half block from Symantec (towards 101, opposite side of Ellis). I drive by it every day but haven't been in it. I'm not sure of it's laptop friendliness... -Andy _______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list Baypiggies at python.org To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 17:24:40 2009 From: stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com (Stephen Cattaneo) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:24:40 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <9cc0dd6f0902270824s402b5c50lbb5873695984facd@mail.gmail.com> Pete, Is this your Factory project home [ http://code.google.com/p/python-factory/]? Cheers, S On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking about > heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the house. ;-) > > > > On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, jim wrote: > > >> (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last >> few years. Now we've moved.) >> >> Beginning February and for some months afterward, >> baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at >> 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 >> on the fourth thursday of each month, >> from 7:30 to 9 PM. >> >> For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein >> possible additional talk on PyDev >> Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam >> >> >> At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: >> >> March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin >> >> April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions >> for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- --- Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement. -- C.S. Lewis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pfein at pobox.com Fri Feb 27 19:51:06 2009 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:51:06 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0902270824s402b5c50lbb5873695984facd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234377541.6719.247.camel@jim-laptop> <9cc0dd6f0902270824s402b5c50lbb5873695984facd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <07BE97F1-0A11-44C1-8962-F56C558BE715@pobox.com> Yup, that's it. Here's the cheeseshop, with docs: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Factory On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Stephen Cattaneo wrote: > Pete, > > Is this your Factory project home [ http://code.google.com/p/python-factory/ > ]? > > Cheers, > > S > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Pete wrote: > Anyone know a non-Starbucks laptop-friendly cafe nearby? Thinking > about heading in that direction a bit early - gotta get out of the > house. ;-) > > > > On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, jim wrote: > > > (BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last > few years. Now we've moved.) > > Beginning February and for some months afterward, > baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at > 350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 > on the fourth thursday of each month, > from 7:30 to 9 PM. > > For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein > possible additional talk on PyDev > Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam > > > At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: > > March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin > > April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions > for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > -- > --- > Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement. > > -- C.S. Lewis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Sat Feb 28 02:49:01 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:49:01 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Available: Meeting from 2009 02 26 Message-ID: <2C0F5D6A-8CFF-40C7-B92B-219CD2149465@glenjarvis.com> A non-edited version of the video is now available. Another BayPIGgies member has loaned us some microphones for better sound quality! However, that did not get included in this video, unfortunately. I got a FedEx yesterday morning, set up the microphones, was able to test that they worked, and all went well. However, once we got on site, there were so many different wireless signals in the building, there was interference on the channel for the microphones. And, with the newness of the microphones for me -- AND with the short entrance time we had for the building, I simply did *not* have time to search for, find, and test a new frequency last night. I got very close, as you can see Charles wearing the microphone that was transmitting. However, the receiver was still not quite tuned to the transmitter. So, we had to use the audio directly on the camera. Next time, I'll get it better -- promise =) So, I apologize again for the sound quality. Again, you can hear each speaker -- but loud background noises can hurt your ears if you listen with a headphone. I'll manually adjust the video sound so headphones can be used when I manually edit the video. However, this will be *some* time before I get the time =( Also, if there are others who want to get together, and collaborate on the editing of these videos, I'd enjoy the collaboration and the community would certainly be thankful to you =) Authors: When we do edit, having a copy of the slides and/or output of your talk really makes the video much clearer and easier to watch. Please send me your slides and/or any code, screen shots, screen videos, etc. that help illustrate the point you are making. Please have them to me by March 7th (an arbitrary but fixed deadline). Draft Video: http://glenjarvis.com/static/media/videos/BayPIGgies_2009_02_26_draft.mov Cheers, Glen P.S. See last months video (editing still incomplete): http://glenjarvis.com/static/media/videos/BayPIGgies_2009_01_08_draft.mov -- I'm Riding to End AIDS From May 31-June 6, 2009, I'm bicycling in AIDS/LifeCycle. It's a 7- day, 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles to make a world of difference in the lives of people living with HIV and AIDS. Please support me and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation by making a donation. Visit: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis We'll keep riding until AIDS and HIV are a thing of the past. 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Sat Feb 28 02:57:00 2009 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:57:00 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] JJ: Easy Decorator Example: TimeIt Message-ID: <22A7DE9F-3C0D-406D-84D6-E7F4EE73CCC4@glenjarvis.com> JJ, Last night you mentioned you had a real easy code snippet (TimeIt) that clearly explains decorators (or what we sometimes refer to as functional decorators). Do you mind sending a copy of that code snippet to supplement the Newbie Nugget last night? I'm learning about decorators and am starting to get my head around them, so any extra code would be helpful. Warmest Regards, Glen -- I'm Riding to End AIDS From May 31-June 6, 2009, I'm bicycling in AIDS/LifeCycle. It's a 7- day, 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles to make a world of difference in the lives of people living with HIV and AIDS. Please support me and the San Francisco AIDS Foundation by making a donation. Visit: http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis We'll keep riding until AIDS and HIV are a thing of the past. 415-680-3964 glen at glenjarvis.com http://www.tofighthiv.org/goto/glenjarvis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:42:14 2009 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:42:14 -0800 Subject: [Baypiggies] Review for Expert Python Programming Message-ID: <8249c4ac0902272342y98008d3t7d490d0199512da4@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, Jim Stockford has written a review of the new book "Expert Python Programming." http://baypiggies.net/new/plone/user-group-association-program/BookReviews/expert-python-programming-review