[Baypiggies] Perot at NASA - Sr. Python Developer

Anna Ravenscroft annaraven at gmail.com
Tue Jun 30 08:50:05 CEST 2009


Great post Isaac!

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Isaac<hyperneato at gmail.com> wrote:
> taken from RFC 2119 ( http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt ):
>
>   In many standards track documents several words are used to signify
>
>    the requirements in the specification.  These words are often
>    capitalized.  This document defines these words as they should be
>    interpreted in IETF documents.  Authors who follow these guidelines
>    should incorporate this phrase near the beginning of their document:
>
>
>       The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
>       NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and
>
>       "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in
>       RFC 2119.
>
>    Note that the force of these words is modified by the requirement
>    level of the document in which they are used.
>
>
> 1. MUST   This word, or the terms "REQUIRED" or "SHALL", mean that the
>    definition is an absolute requirement of the specification.
>
> 2. MUST NOT   This phrase, or the phrase "SHALL NOT", mean that the
>
>    definition is an absolute prohibition of the specification.
>
> 3. SHOULD   This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there
>    may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a
>
>    particular item, but the full implications must be understood and
>    carefully weighed before choosing a different course.
>
> 4. SHOULD NOT   This phrase, or the phrase "NOT RECOMMENDED" mean that
>    there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when the
>
>    particular behavior is acceptable or even useful, but the full
>    implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed
>    before implementing any behavior described with this label.
>
>
>
> 5. MAY   This word, or the adjective "OPTIONAL", mean that an item is
>
>    truly optional.  One vendor may choose to include the item because a
>    particular marketplace requires it or because the vendor feels that
>    it enhances the product while another vendor may omit the same item.
>
>    An implementation which does not include a particular option MUST be
>    prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does
>    include the option, though perhaps with reduced functionality. In the
>
>    same vein an implementation which does include a particular option
>    MUST be prepared to interoperate with another implementation which
>    does not include the option (except, of course, for the feature the
>    option provides.)
>
>
> Perhaps the job postings on this mailing list SHOULD use this criteria ( or
> a similar version ).
>
> -Isaac
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not that I'm really interested (wallowing in the joy that is working
>> at Google), but I think it might help you to see why somebody like me
>> might not qualify by the silly standards you set out...
>>
>> > Our client is developing a cloud computing infrastructure.  This has the
>> > backing of the federal government and they want to make it the flagship
>> > (standard).  Cloud Computing is their next generation datacenter with
>> > automated load following and virtual space all mapped together.
>>
>> Considering that I've spent the last 4+ years of my life building
>> Google's cloud, one might suspect I'm qualified, but...
>>
>> > Python development (at least 3 years)
>>
>> Check, 10 years should do.
>>
>> > Direct experience with highly-scalable web applications (minimum 5M+
>> > monthly
>> > unique visitors or the ability to scale to that level)
>>
>> 5M pageviews per month is what we *give out FOR FREE* on the Google
>> App Engine (built on top of the cloud I helped build)...
>>
>> > Leadership experience (managing developers in a highly collaborative R&D
>> > environment)
>>
>> Having spent most of my time at Google as Uber Tech Lead (responsible
>> directly or indirectly for up to a few dozens of developers when I had
>> to, though that was only when we lacked director-level personnel -- my
>> boss, a senior VP, was way overloaded, so I took the people management
>> load off his shoulder even though I'd much rather have been
>> hacking!-), I think I could check this one
>>
>> > Experience with Social Media and Social Networking on the API layer
>>
>> Ah, that's the killer bit: while I've built clouds and managed large
>> groups of brilliant developers doing so, I have ZERO experience on
>> this "Social" silly thing (Google does have Orkut, which runs in part
>> on infrastructure I helped build, but I nevertheless have ZERO
>> experience with its APIs). So, since this is a MUST, even if I _was_
>> looking for a job I would never apply for this one.
>>
>> In fact I'm quite loath to link my future to this "social networking"
>> craze, to the point that I've repeatedly resisted facebook's insisted
>> headhunting (prompted in part, I believe, by friends and ex-colleagues
>> of mine who work there -- they've experienced what it means to work
>> closely with me, even though I have ZERO "experience with social"
>> ANYthing "on the API layer", and must have pressed their recruiters to
>> keep badgering me even after several refusals on my part).
>>
>> It's fortunate that your conditions include this "social blahblah"
>> experience as a MUST, since it means I of course won't apply and you'd
>> immediately discard me if I did (or else it means you don't know what
>> MUST means, which should steer ANY sensible person off this
>> organization, of course).
>>
>> > Experience defining, implementing and refining data-driven APIs
>>
>> Got that (BOY do I ever), but doesn't matter since I lack your
>> (idiotic IMHO) "social" `MUST`.
>>
>> > Experience in open source, both as a developer and an active community
>> > participant
>>
>> Got that, in MANY projects, but again it doesn't matter given the
>> meaning of "MUST".
>>
>> > Agile development in full product life-cycles
>>
>> AND that -- one of my hottest-burning passions, actually.
>>
>> > Nice to have:
>> >
>> > Development of Complex, N-tiered systems, utilizing loosely-coupled
>> > components based on a message-passing architecture
>>
>> Got that and then some, pity it doesn't matter.
>>
>> > Familiarity with OAuth, OpenID and other open standards for
>> > authentication
>> > and identity
>>
>> Ditto.
>>
>> > Familiar with EC2, AppEngine, and basic cloud computing infrastructure
>>
>> And ditto squared.
>>
>>
>> So -- one single, incredibly silly MUST condition about "social mush"
>> would stop ME from applying for this job even if I was LOOKING for a
>> job (which, let me repeat, I ain't) -- even though I'm WAY qualified
>> or overqualified on EVERY other 'MUST' _and_ 'NICE TO HAVE', *AND* a
>> lot you don't even bother to mention.
>>
>> That's what MUST HAVE ***means***.  If I SELECT * FROM ... WHERE
>> 'social' IN experience AND ... -- it doesn't matter how incredibly
>> well every other aspect matches: if 'social' is *NOT* among the
>> 'experience' set, the row will be entirely and totally discarded no
>> matter what.
>>
>> My best guess is that you, and the people who hired you to post this
>> job offer, are so incredibly clueless that you placed among the "MUST"
>> a condiiton that's actually, at best, "very nice to have" -- not
>> realizing what a HUGE difference that makes to any engineer who
>> actually thinks and behave like an engineer.
>>
>> Good luck -- compared to the job offer you SHOULD be posting, you'll
>> either get a small or mediocre set of candidates, OR people willing to
>> completely ignore what you CLAIM is an "absolutely MUST have
>> condition", OR... lie through their teeth. Looks like you deserve each
>> other.
>>
>>
>> Alex
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-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
I am the mother of all things and all things shall wear a sweater!


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