From Nic at jivaroinc.com  Sat May  2 00:50:24 2009
From: Nic at jivaroinc.com (Nic Bingham)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:50:24 -0600
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Python/Django Engineer
Message-ID: <E64907620341144A9778DEE2DC0CE1A5AA73B1@jivaro-server.jivaro.local>

I am looking for someone for a key position with my company.  Please
email if interested.

 

Sr. Software Engineer or Architect (To be the CTO)

The Senior Software Engineer or Architect is the sole individual
responsible for managing and further evolving of our software-directed
systems. As for our photo fulfillment systems, the operations include
production, image gallery, and transaction processing. At the corporate
level, these include internet hosting and monitoring, search indexing,
and database management, among others. 

 

The successful candidate will be an expert in the following standards
and languages / systems: 
* Python, optimally with Django 1.x 
* Perl 
* MYSQL 
* PHP 
* Linux 
* Javascript 
* XSLT, XML and others 

Additional Qualifications/requirements: 
* 5 years minimum real world experience engineering web solutions for
LAMP stacks 
* Strong relational DB knowledge (table optimization, query
optimization) 
* Ability to prioritize and lead multiple simultaneous projects
effectively 
* Enthusiasm for architecting and implementing solid, scalable,
extensible solutions 
* Strong verbal, written, analytical and communication skills 

This position reports directly to the company's President and is part of
the senior management team. The ideal candidate will be a dedicated,
hands on professional who is a self-starter and proficient with managing
details while keeping the big picture in mind. We value positive
attitudes and professionals who can successfully navigate through
ambiguous and challenging situations. 

We offer an exciting and unique opportunity for the ambitious developer
who wants to play a large part in one of the net's next e-commerce
sensations! 

Compensation is comprised of both salary and equity incentives. 

About the Company 
We are located in Emeryville, California, and provide the highest
quality photo prints to consumers via purchases made at its own web site
and at the sites of its partners. Over 800 of the world's top media
companies including National Geographic, The Associated Press, Gannett,
The Washington Post, AOL, and Yahoo, have partnered with us to monetize
their vast image holdings via sales to the public. By taking the
partners image archives and feeds direct to the public, we create
brand-promotion opportunities and revenue streams that have not
previously existed. 


We are a privately funded entrepreneurial venture which has recently
made a strategic and management restructuring. At this new stage of our
growth, we are very excited to be advancing to the next level in our
company's development! 

Culture: We have a relaxed, intimate and informal environment. As a
growing dot com we work hard but like to have fun doing it. Every team
member is a valuable contributor to achieving the company's objectives.
Our flat corporate hierarchy supports team players, not strong egos.

 

 

Nic Bingham



 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090501/4a670daf/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May  2 07:28:18 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Python/Django Engineer
In-Reply-To: <E64907620341144A9778DEE2DC0CE1A5AA73B1@jivaro-server.jivaro.local>
References: <E64907620341144A9778DEE2DC0CE1A5AA73B1@jivaro-server.jivaro.local>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905012228y63c8f707u38330012118ad5fb@mail.gmail.com>

Nic,

Third-party recruiters are *not* allowed on this list, and I told you
that ahead of time!

Do not use this forum again.

-jj

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Nic Bingham <Nic at jivaroinc.com> wrote:
> I am looking for someone for a key position with my company.? Please email
> if interested.
>
>
>
> Sr. Software Engineer or Architect (To be the CTO)
>
> The Senior Software Engineer or Architect is the sole individual responsible
> for managing and further evolving of our software-directed systems. As for
> our photo fulfillment systems, the operations include production, image
> gallery, and transaction processing. At the corporate level, these include
> internet hosting and monitoring, search indexing, and database management,
> among others.
>
>
>
> The successful candidate will be an expert in the following standards and
> languages / systems:
> ? Python, optimally with Django 1.x
> ? Perl
> ? MYSQL
> ? PHP
> ? Linux
> ? Javascript
> ? XSLT, XML and others
>
> Additional Qualifications/requirements:
> ? 5 years minimum real world experience engineering web solutions for LAMP
> stacks
> ? Strong relational DB knowledge (table optimization, query optimization)
> ? Ability to prioritize and lead multiple simultaneous projects effectively
> ? Enthusiasm for architecting and implementing solid, scalable, extensible
> solutions
> ? Strong verbal, written, analytical and communication skills
>
> This position reports directly to the company?s President and is part of the
> senior management team. The ideal candidate will be a dedicated, hands on
> professional who is a self-starter and proficient with managing details
> while keeping the big picture in mind. We value positive attitudes and
> professionals who can successfully navigate through ambiguous and
> challenging situations.
>
> We offer an exciting and unique opportunity for the ambitious developer who
> wants to play a large part in one of the net?s next e-commerce sensations!
>
> Compensation is comprised of both salary and equity incentives.
>
> About the Company
> We are located in Emeryville, California, and provide the highest quality
> photo prints to consumers via purchases made at its own web site and at the
> sites of its partners. Over 800 of the world?s top media companies including
> National Geographic, The Associated Press, Gannett, The Washington Post,
> AOL, and Yahoo, have partnered with us to monetize their vast image holdings
> via sales to the public. By taking the partners image archives and feeds
> direct to the public, we create brand-promotion opportunities and revenue
> streams that have not previously existed.
>
> We are a privately funded entrepreneurial venture which has recently made a
> strategic and management restructuring. At this new stage of our growth, we
> are very excited to be advancing to the next level in our company?s
> development!
>
> Culture: We have a relaxed, intimate and informal environment. As a growing
> dot com we work hard but like to have fun doing it. Every team member is a
> valuable contributor to achieving the company?s objectives. Our flat
> corporate hierarchy supports team players, not strong egos.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nic Bingham
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May  2 07:34:35 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:34:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for a Python/Django Engineer
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905012228y63c8f707u38330012118ad5fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E64907620341144A9778DEE2DC0CE1A5AA73B1@jivaro-server.jivaro.local>
	<c41f67b90905012228y63c8f707u38330012118ad5fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905012234x42140e0ay533c274872fc2f18@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

Nowhere in Nic's post does he mention Pictopia.com; however, this job
posting matches this one on Craigslist:
"http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/eng/1143597001.html".  I advise you
to contact the company directly if you're interested in the job below.
 It really irks me when someone willfully and knowingly disregards our
rules.

-jj

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nic,
>
> Third-party recruiters are *not* allowed on this list, and I told you
> that ahead of time!
>
> Do not use this forum again.
>
> -jj
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Nic Bingham <Nic at jivaroinc.com> wrote:
>> I am looking for someone for a key position with my company.? Please email
>> if interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sr. Software Engineer or Architect (To be the CTO)
>>
>> The Senior Software Engineer or Architect is the sole individual responsible
>> for managing and further evolving of our software-directed systems. As for
>> our photo fulfillment systems, the operations include production, image
>> gallery, and transaction processing. At the corporate level, these include
>> internet hosting and monitoring, search indexing, and database management,
>> among others.
>>
>>
>>
>> The successful candidate will be an expert in the following standards and
>> languages / systems:
>> ? Python, optimally with Django 1.x
>> ? Perl
>> ? MYSQL
>> ? PHP
>> ? Linux
>> ? Javascript
>> ? XSLT, XML and others
>>
>> Additional Qualifications/requirements:
>> ? 5 years minimum real world experience engineering web solutions for LAMP
>> stacks
>> ? Strong relational DB knowledge (table optimization, query optimization)
>> ? Ability to prioritize and lead multiple simultaneous projects effectively
>> ? Enthusiasm for architecting and implementing solid, scalable, extensible
>> solutions
>> ? Strong verbal, written, analytical and communication skills
>>
>> This position reports directly to the company?s President and is part of the
>> senior management team. The ideal candidate will be a dedicated, hands on
>> professional who is a self-starter and proficient with managing details
>> while keeping the big picture in mind. We value positive attitudes and
>> professionals who can successfully navigate through ambiguous and
>> challenging situations.
>>
>> We offer an exciting and unique opportunity for the ambitious developer who
>> wants to play a large part in one of the net?s next e-commerce sensations!
>>
>> Compensation is comprised of both salary and equity incentives.
>>
>> About the Company
>> We are located in Emeryville, California, and provide the highest quality
>> photo prints to consumers via purchases made at its own web site and at the
>> sites of its partners. Over 800 of the world?s top media companies including
>> National Geographic, The Associated Press, Gannett, The Washington Post,
>> AOL, and Yahoo, have partnered with us to monetize their vast image holdings
>> via sales to the public. By taking the partners image archives and feeds
>> direct to the public, we create brand-promotion opportunities and revenue
>> streams that have not previously existed.
>>
>> We are a privately funded entrepreneurial venture which has recently made a
>> strategic and management restructuring. At this new stage of our growth, we
>> are very excited to be advancing to the next level in our company?s
>> development!
>>
>> Culture: We have a relaxed, intimate and informal environment. As a growing
>> dot com we work hard but like to have fun doing it. Every team member is a
>> valuable contributor to achieving the company?s objectives. Our flat
>> corporate hierarchy supports team players, not strong egos.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nic Bingham
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>



-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon May  4 15:24:42 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 06:24:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] REMINDER: OSCON 2009 registration open
Message-ID: <20090504132442.GA15568@panix.com>

Registration is now open for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON).
OSCON 2009 will be July 20-24 in San Jose, California.

Early registration ends June 2.

Use the special discount code 'os09pgm' for an extra 15% off.

For more information:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

From nathan at yergler.net  Mon May  4 19:25:51 2009
From: nathan at yergler.net (Nathan Yergler)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 10:25:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Creative Commons hiring
Message-ID: <53039e7b0905041025w5e87bbc4o4a937bbe184f649@mail.gmail.com>

Creative Commons is hiring a full time software engineer.  Python is a
big part of our stack here - it powers lots of the internal tools we
build for working with worldwide affiliates, as well as the license
engine (http://creativecommons.org/license) and deeds.  Full posting
is at http://creativecommons.org/about/opportunities#engineer.  If you
have any questions, feel free to ask on or off list.

Nathan

From herbert at albinen.com  Mon May  4 20:29:26 2009
From: herbert at albinen.com (Herbert Pfennig)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:29:26 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Question about unittest, setUp and suites
Message-ID: <20090504182926.GP70937@ironport.com>

Hi All,

Long time lurker with a simple question about unittest. I have googled around
and have not really found a good answer to the following question. How do I
define a _setUp_ that only get's called before a suite of tests is run?
(_not_ for every test)

Unittest talks about running a test fixture for a test or a number of
tests but I cannot seem to get this to work for me...

The best solution I could come up with was to do something like this:

import unittest

ran_suite_setup = False
                               
class TestSuite(unittest.TestCase):
    def setUp(self):
        global ran_suite_setup
        if ran_suite_setup is False:
            print "Running Suite Setup"
            ran_suite_setup = True
        print 'Doing some test setup'
    
    def test_001(self):
        print 'Hi, I am test1'

    def test_002(self):
        print 'Hi, I am test2'

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()


I am not crazy about using globals :) Is this right, or is there a better way
to do this? Any ideas are very appreciated.

~hp

From amax at redsymbol.net  Mon May  4 22:24:42 2009
From: amax at redsymbol.net (Aaron Maxwell)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:24:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Question about unittest, setUp and suites
In-Reply-To: <20090504182926.GP70937@ironport.com>
References: <20090504182926.GP70937@ironport.com>
Message-ID: <200905041324.42941.amax@redsymbol.net>

Hi Herbert.

On Monday 04 May 2009 11:29:26 am Herbert Pfennig wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Long time lurker with a simple question about unittest. I have googled
> around and have not really found a good answer to the following question.
> How do I define a _setUp_ that only get's called before a suite of tests is
> run? (_not_ for every test)

I believe that using a global like you did is the best approach under plain 
unittest.  An alternative is to use a class variable:

{{{
import unittest

class T(unittest.TestCase):
    first_time = True
    def setUp(self):
        if T.first_time:
            T.first_time = False
            # initial setup
            print '**doing first-time setup'

    def test_a(self):
        self.assertTrue(True)

    def test_b(self):
        self.assertTrue(True)

if '__main__' == __name__:
    unittest.main()
}}}

It's less maintainable because the class name appears 3 times, and you have to 
remember somehow to update all 3 if it changes.  A workaround is to use 
self.__class__ instead:
{{{
    def setUp(self):
        if self.__class__.first_time:
            self.__class__.first_time = False
}}}

Some people, like myself, would prefer the global-variable method anyway.  To 
me it seems easier to understand quickly when I look at the code again weeks 
later.  In particular, setting the class attribute is kind of obscure - it 
does what you need because of how unittest processes test cases, but if 
you're not familiar with those internals, you might look at it and go, "Huh? 
how come this works?"  Maybe you could encapsulate it in a well-documented 
function or method.

Anyway, some other test frameworks that build upon unittest have explicit 
support for this test pattern, so if you're doing this a lot you might want 
to look into them.  Nose in particular [0], and possibly py.test as well [1].

[0] http://somethingaboutorange.com/mrl/projects/nose/
[1] http://codespeak.net/py/dist/test/test.html

-- 
Aaron Maxwell
http://redsymbol.net/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue May  5 01:59:04 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:59:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Question about unittest, setUp and suites
In-Reply-To: <200905041324.42941.amax@redsymbol.net>
References: <20090504182926.GP70937@ironport.com>
	<200905041324.42941.amax@redsymbol.net>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905041659h28734735kb48dcced44cf60f5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Aaron Maxwell <amax at redsymbol.net> wrote:
> Hi Herbert.
>
> On Monday 04 May 2009 11:29:26 am Herbert Pfennig wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Long time lurker with a simple question about unittest. I have googled
>> around and have not really found a good answer to the following question.
>> How do I define a _setUp_ that only get's called before a suite of tests is
>> run? (_not_ for every test)
>
> I believe that using a global like you did is the best approach under plain
> unittest. ?An alternative is to use a class variable:
>
> {{{
> import unittest
>
> class T(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ?first_time = True
> ? ?def setUp(self):
> ? ? ? ?if T.first_time:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?T.first_time = False
> ? ? ? ? ? ?# initial setup
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print '**doing first-time setup'
>
> ? ?def test_a(self):
> ? ? ? ?self.assertTrue(True)
>
> ? ?def test_b(self):
> ? ? ? ?self.assertTrue(True)
>
> if '__main__' == __name__:
> ? ?unittest.main()
> }}}
>
> It's less maintainable because the class name appears 3 times, and you have to
> remember somehow to update all 3 if it changes. ?A workaround is to use
> self.__class__ instead:
> {{{
> ? ?def setUp(self):
> ? ? ? ?if self.__class__.first_time:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.__class__.first_time = False
> }}}
>
> Some people, like myself, would prefer the global-variable method anyway. ?To
> me it seems easier to understand quickly when I look at the code again weeks
> later. ?In particular, setting the class attribute is kind of obscure - it
> does what you need because of how unittest processes test cases, but if
> you're not familiar with those internals, you might look at it and go, "Huh?
> how come this works?" ?Maybe you could encapsulate it in a well-documented
> function or method.
>
> Anyway, some other test frameworks that build upon unittest have explicit
> support for this test pattern, so if you're doing this a lot you might want
> to look into them. ?Nose in particular [0], and possibly py.test as well [1].
>
> [0] http://somethingaboutorange.com/mrl/projects/nose/
> [1] http://codespeak.net/py/dist/test/test.html

This is one of the things I prefer about Nose.  Go
http://somethingaboutorange.com/mrl/projects/nose/, and look for
"setup".  You can do both per-module and per-test setup and teardown.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Wed May  6 05:14:25 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 20:14:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Twisted: by David Reid
References: <1564535460.1241579496163.JavaMail.nobody@james3>
Message-ID: <3F09A1D7-2C7A-456F-BF6B-5C1DA544F007@glenjarvis.com>

Here is another Python Meetup...

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Grace Law <glaw at slide.com>
> Date: May 5, 2009 8:11:36 PM PDT
> To: python-189-announce at meetup.com
> Subject: [python-189] New Meetup: Twisted: by David Reid
> Reply-To: python-189 at meetup.com
>
> Announcing a new Meetup for San Francisco Python Meetup Group!
>
> What: Twisted: by David Reid
>
> When: May 13, 2009 6:30 PM
>
> Where: Slide's office - 301 Brannan Street, San Francisco, CA
>
> Meetup Description: Want to learn more about Twisted?
>
> This month, David Reid, long term contributor to the Twisted  
> Asynchronous Networking Framework and Co-Maintainer of twisted.web2  
> will be presenting. Stay tune for his abstract.
>
> Agenda-
> 6:30p - 7:00p Pizza and Networking
> 7:00p - 8:30p Main talk / Q&A
>
> Please RSVP so we know how much food to order ;-)
>
> About Slide's office:
> 2.5 blocks from Cal Train
> Easy parking along 2nd street and Brannan - Giants game should be  
> done by 5p on 5/13
> Bicycle storage available at our office
> Please pardon the constructions at our lobby - it's getting a face  
> lift.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grace Law





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090505/aa6f9a35/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed May  6 23:07:50 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 14:07:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [SHDH] Hacker Dojo - Your Chance to be a Founding
	Member
In-Reply-To: <07a8d03a-7630-4607-b149-a2f7ea80390f@k9g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <07a8d03a-7630-4607-b149-a2f7ea80390f@k9g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905061407yea584a4tf232fdd6f7782e83@mail.gmail.com>

I seem to remember something about this on our mailing list as well:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David  Weekly <dweekly at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, May 6, 2009 at 1:12 AM
Subject: [SHDH] Hacker Dojo - Your Chance to be a Founding Member
To: SuperHappyDevHouse Announcements <SHDH-Announce at googlegroups.com>



Folks,

As many of you know, several of us been working very hard for the past
few months to create a facility to support 24/7 DevHousing - a place
that hackers could call their own, hold classes and lectures at, build
community, do offsites, cowork from, network at, and so forth.

So I'm very proud to announce the formation of The Hacker Dojo
Corporation, a not-for-profit California corporation. We've selected a
final site at 140a South Whisman Road in Mountain View, a former
custom glassworking facility with 4400 square feet of hackery and
tomfoolery abounding. There's even a neighboring site (140b) that we
can expand into later. We've formed a Founding Board of Directors
(myself, Jeff, Kitt, Melissa, and Brian Klug) and are in the process
of opening our bank account. We even have over $10k of checks in hand
for Hacker Dojo, mostly from this initial Board.

But here's where you come in - we'd like to seed the Dojo with some
awesome DevHouse hackers. Memberships at the Dojo (which entitle you
to drop-in privileges and the ability to bring guests) start at $100/
mo. If you'd like to be a Founding Member, just prepay three months of
membership by the end of the month, or sign up for a monthly PayPal
subscription. More details are at http://d0j0.com/JoinTheDojo - sign
up now! If you can spare more than this and want to support the cause,
please donate more to sponsor memberships. (I myself just put in $2000
of my own money tonight; Kitt put in $3000, and Brian Klug wrote a
check to Hacker Dojo for a whopping $6000.)

Either way, I'd like to strongly encourage all DevHousers to to join
the Hacker Dojo PBworks space at d0j0.com and the mailing list at
groups.google.com/group/hackerdojo to get involved with this
community. Hacker Dojo will likely be the "operating organization"
that actually runs DevHouse, so these two Bay Area hacker brands are
going to be like peas in a pod. And if you've ever thought to yourself
"gosh, I'd like to have a hackathon of my own and I'd run it like..."
or "I wish I had a space to run a class/event for..." then dust off
those thinking caps, because our intent is to have the Dojo open for
innovation in June, provided enough folks like you join as members!

Cheers,
?David & The Dojo Gang
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "SuperHappyDevHouse Announcements" group.
To post to this group, send email to SHDH-Announce at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
SHDH-Announce+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/SHDH-Announce?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---




-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May  7 21:49:58 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 12:49:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
Message-ID: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>

I've been working on an idea... It's Python and Django based. It's  
rather a cool idea and I've been working on it for about three months.  
I'm scrapping my old repository and starting over.

Before I ask my technical questions, let me throw a copy and paste  
summary of my idea/work out there:

--- start ---
it really has taken off. I want to start over completely in my  
repository. This is something I've originally written in Python/Django.

I wish to disclose my intent to create a web service for a programable  
(Quick Response) QR barcode. The QR Barcode patent is owned but not  
exercised by Denso Wave.

These QR codes can store numeric, alphanumeric, binary,  URL, binary,  
address cards, SMS and other types of storage. They are, however,  
limited to a finite amount of data and can only store the types of  
data already predefined in the barcode specification.

Additionally, each time a different type of data is stored in the  
barcode, the barcode that is generated is different. This does not  
allow for a one-stop posting of a barcode. For example, if a  
specifically encoded QR code is printed on a T-shirt, then if the  
content of the barcode needs to change, the barcode needs to be  
reprinted. It is not feasible, then, to dynamically change the content  
of the barcode without having to reprint the barcode.

I propose that a single barcode per user or entity (e.g., for John Doe  
to have professionally printed on his t-shirt) is created. The format  
of this barcode is URL and points to a specific web address.  
Additional parameters are encoded in the URL to indicate the entity  
(e.g., John's T-shirt).

Then, the web server can return any amount of data (limited only by  
the practicality of transmitting that data). Additionally, since the  
Web server can run programs, the function of already printed code can  
be extended at any time by the addition of a new program on the web  
server.

An example of the data stored in this 'fixed' or 'programmable'  
barcode could be (but is not limited to) as follows:
    http://glenjarvis.com/scan?id=34&token=4343d (currently not a  
valid url)


The webserver, in this example at glenjarvis.com, would receive a scan  
with id of 34. The barcode object with that id has a dynamic program  
associated with it (e.g., return a random Irish Limerick). Then,  
whenever barcodes are scanned (for example, with a mobile phone, the  
user is redirected to the URL, and an Irish Limerick is returned to  
this user. The programs added to this code can be scavenger hunts,  
physical games (like tag: last barcode scanned wins), etc.
--- end ---

This worked very well conceptually... In fact, I separated everything  
so that every barcode had a 'program' associated with it. The program  
was actually a string to dynamically call a verified program (each  
program is a django app named with the id of that 'program' in the  
database).

Because QR codes are so popular in the rest of the world, I imaged  
that we're only limited by the creativity of people out there -- for  
example, if someone from BayPIGgies is interested in creating a  
'program' for this platform, they only need to write it.

As I progressed, and reality came from the idea, it was clear that:
1) All new programs had to be 'registered' manually (that is,  
instructions are given and a sandbox is given to develop, but the  
production system has to be very carefully controlled for security).

2) Django is so mono-lithic.. but, we want to launch external  
programs. The internal django app mentioned above handles the basic  
call (like a poll thread handles all incoming calls). But, the work is  
done by external systems. And, this came down to RESTful ideas.

But, that's where things kinda smoldered for a while. Can a fully  
RESTful system be created where program execution (even if through a  
URL) is done, passing a small set of JSON data. And, an API of certain  
authenticated calls is given to that program for use...

I've never done any facebook apps or myspace or other networking, but  
is this how they work?  How does the security model work? Is REST the  
best model?

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. This is more stream of  
conscious discussion as I consider these past few hurdles.


Warmest Regards,



Glen Jarvis
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090507/bc118f37/attachment.htm>

From nar at hush.com  Thu May  7 22:01:28 2009
From: nar at hush.com (nar)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:01:28 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>

Just my two cents on the RESTful aspect of the project.

REST bugs me. The namespace is arbitrary and conforms to no real  
standards. While it's convenient from a design standpoint, it puts the  
onus on third-party developers to understand what to put in and what  
they get out of it, and that means having to read and understand  
documentation.

If you use SOAP, it certainly incurs more overhead, it's a fat  
protocol -- BUT, the ability to point a SOAP proxy object at some WSDL  
and have it automatically understand what functions are available to  
it and their prototypes makes it so much more attractive to third  
party developers. In terms of security, there's a variety of  
strategies you can utilize that are part of the protocol rather than  
tacking them on at the end by hand.

I think the concept is a great one though! REST definitely is 'easy'  
to write, and probably easier for casual developers to utilize, but I  
prefer SOAP because it's consistent.

-n


On May 7, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote:

> I've been working on an idea... It's Python and Django based. It's  
> rather a cool idea and I've been working on it for about three  
> months. I'm scrapping my old repository and starting over.
>
> Before I ask my technical questions, let me throw a copy and paste  
> summary of my idea/work out there:
>
> --- start ---
> it really has taken off. I want to start over completely in my  
> repository. This is something I've originally written in Python/ 
> Django.
>
> I wish to disclose my intent to create a web service for a  
> programable (Quick Response) QR barcode. The QR Barcode patent is  
> owned but not exercised by Denso Wave.
>
> These QR codes can store numeric, alphanumeric, binary,  URL,  
> binary, address cards, SMS and other types of storage. They are,  
> however, limited to a finite amount of data and can only store the  
> types of data already predefined in the barcode specification.
>
> Additionally, each time a different type of data is stored in the  
> barcode, the barcode that is generated is different. This does not  
> allow for a one-stop posting of a barcode. For example, if a  
> specifically encoded QR code is printed on a T-shirt, then if the  
> content of the barcode needs to change, the barcode needs to be  
> reprinted. It is not feasible, then, to dynamically change the  
> content of the barcode without having to reprint the barcode.
>
> I propose that a single barcode per user or entity (e.g., for John  
> Doe to have professionally printed on his t-shirt) is created. The  
> format of this barcode is URL and points to a specific web address.  
> Additional parameters are encoded in the URL to indicate the entity  
> (e.g., John's T-shirt).
>
> Then, the web server can return any amount of data (limited only by  
> the practicality of transmitting that data). Additionally, since the  
> Web server can run programs, the function of already printed code  
> can be extended at any time by the addition of a new program on the  
> web server.
>
> An example of the data stored in this 'fixed' or 'programmable'  
> barcode could be (but is not limited to) as follows:
>    http://glenjarvis.com/scan?id=34&token=4343d (currently not a  
> valid url)
>
>
> The webserver, in this example at glenjarvis.com, would receive a  
> scan with id of 34. The barcode object with that id has a dynamic  
> program associated with it (e.g., return a random Irish Limerick).  
> Then, whenever barcodes are scanned (for example, with a mobile  
> phone, the user is redirected to the URL, and an Irish Limerick is  
> returned to this user. The programs added to this code can be  
> scavenger hunts, physical games (like tag: last barcode scanned  
> wins), etc.
> --- end ---
>
> This worked very well conceptually... In fact, I separated  
> everything so that every barcode had a 'program' associated with it.  
> The program was actually a string to dynamically call a verified  
> program (each program is a django app named with the id of that  
> 'program' in the database).
>
> Because QR codes are so popular in the rest of the world, I imaged  
> that we're only limited by the creativity of people out there -- for  
> example, if someone from BayPIGgies is interested in creating a  
> 'program' for this platform, they only need to write it.
>
> As I progressed, and reality came from the idea, it was clear that:
> 1) All new programs had to be 'registered' manually (that is,  
> instructions are given and a sandbox is given to develop, but the  
> production system has to be very carefully controlled for security).
>
> 2) Django is so mono-lithic.. but, we want to launch external  
> programs. The internal django app mentioned above handles the basic  
> call (like a poll thread handles all incoming calls). But, the work  
> is done by external systems. And, this came down to RESTful ideas.
>
> But, that's where things kinda smoldered for a while. Can a fully  
> RESTful system be created where program execution (even if through a  
> URL) is done, passing a small set of JSON data. And, an API of  
> certain authenticated calls is given to that program for use...
>
> I've never done any facebook apps or myspace or other networking,  
> but is this how they work?  How does the security model work? Is  
> REST the best model?
>
> Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. This is more stream of  
> conscious discussion as I consider these past few hurdles.
>
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090507/ea843daf/attachment-0001.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May  7 22:14:04 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:14:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
	<c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905071314s5bbb78c3j851c56a8aeb7cc17@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:01 PM, nar <nar at hush.com> wrote:
> Just my two cents on the RESTful aspect of the project.
> REST bugs me. The namespace is arbitrary and conforms to no real standards.
> While it's?convenient?from a design standpoint, it puts the onus on
> third-party developers to understand what to put in and what they get out of
> it, and that means having to read and understand documentation.
> If you use SOAP, it?certainly?incurs more overhead, it's a fat protocol --
> BUT, the ability to point a SOAP proxy object at some WSDL and have it
> automatically understand what functions are available to it and their
> prototypes makes it so much more attractive to third party developers. In
> terms of security, there's a variety of strategies you can utilize that are
> part of the protocol rather than tacking them on at the end by hand.
> I think the concept is a great one though! REST definitely is 'easy' to
> write, and probably easier for casual developers to utilize, but I prefer
> SOAP because it's consistent.

(I replied to Glen off list.)

REST bugs me too ;)  Since my main job at my last two companies has
been to write RESTful Web services, I feel justified in my opinion.

I've written a lot about REST on my blog, including a review of the
book "RESTful Web Services":
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/search/label/rest.  However, rather than
restate everything I wrote on my blog, let me copy just one post:

====
Web: REST Verbs

I find it curious that REST enthusiasts insist on viewing the world
through the five verbs GET, HEAD, PUT, POST, and DELETE. It reminds me
of a story:

Back in the early '80s, I worked for DARPA. During the height of the
Cold War, we were really worried about being attacked by Russia. My
team was charged with designing a RESTful interface to a nuclear
launch site; as far as technology goes, we were way ahead of our time.

Anyway, I wanted the interface to be "PUT /bomb". However, my
co-worker insisted that it should be "DELETE /russia". One of my other
buddies suggested that we compromise on something more mainstream like
"POST /russia/bomb".

Finally, my boss put an end to the whole fiasco. He argued that any
strike against the USSR would necessarily be in retaliation to an
attack from them. Hence, he suggested that it be "GET /even", so
that's what we went with.

You have to understand, back then, GETs with side effects weren't yet
considered harmful.
====

Happy Hacking :-D
-jj

From alchaiken at gmail.com  Thu May  7 22:19:09 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:19:09 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>

Glen Jarvis writes:
> I propose that a single barcode per user or entity (e.g., for John Doe
> to have professionally printed on his t-shirt) is created. The format
> of this barcode is URL and points to a specific web address.
[ .  .  .  ]
> Then, the web server can return any amount of data (limited only by
> the practicality of transmitting that data). Additionally, since the
> Web server can run programs, the function of already printed code can
> be extended at any time by the addition of a new program on the web
> server.

Glen, perhaps I've misunderstood you, but your idea sounds a lot like what
touchatag has already implemented:

http://developer.touchatag.com/

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
A country overwhelmed by evil has more dignity than one tripped up by
fools.   -- Ian Parker in the _New Yorker_

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri May  8 00:00:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:00:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>


On May 7, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Alison Chaiken wrote:
> Glen, perhaps I've misunderstood you, but your idea sounds a lot  
> like what
> touchatag has already implemented:
>
> http://developer.touchatag.com/

Alison,
     I've been working on this idea for about 3-4 months. And, I've  
sunk some serious time into development. I also looking at anything  
that was similar coming my way and nothing yet was done -- it was  
strange to have such a novel idea.

     I saw touchatag before and I didn't think the barcodes were smart  
(their RF codes were). So, I dismissed that one too early. In fact,  
now I've researched them, their infrastructure for the RF codes is  
almost exactly the same that I developed for QR codes.

     They use Java, I'm using the cooler language :)   Oh, and their  
answer to my question was SOAP.

     It's so refreshing to collaborate openly with those who have seem  
similar things. I don't think I would have ever seen that this has  
been done to this level with QR codes.

     I signed up for touch-a-tag and maybe I can make something fun  
and practical quicker now that some of the back-end work has been  
completed.

     Thank you for sharing!


=)



Cheers,



Glen
--
415-680-3964
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090507/1575a324/attachment.htm>

From alchaiken at gmail.com  Fri May  8 00:19:00 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:19:00 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0905071519tb6a65e0vaebbf15761ba4dc4@mail.gmail.com>

You're aware that when TikiTag changed their name to Touchatag that
their emphasis switched from RFID to QR codes?

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)    	                http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
A country overwhelmed by evil has more dignity than one tripped up by
fools.   -- Ian Parker in the _New Yorker_

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri May  8 05:35:17 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 20:35:17 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <cd7dd44d0905071519tb6a65e0vaebbf15761ba4dc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>
	<cd7dd44d0905071519tb6a65e0vaebbf15761ba4dc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3548F2B9-7236-4A98-B967-F8866F0AFBE4@glenjarvis.com>

> You're aware that when TikiTag changed their name to Touchatag that
> their emphasis switched from RFID to QR codes?

This is *awesome.*  I knew they changed their names, but not why.  
Okay, so I scrapped about three months of work... But, I think I can  
implement the same functionality as a developer on the touchatag  
platform.

Oh, and what I *didn't* know that touchatag is already supporting are  
Near Field Communication (NFC) phones. I didn't know about NFC enabled  
phones...

Why is there too much to learn in this world and so little time? :)
Thanks again for the help... :)


Anyone know any good SOAP books -- specific to Python examples would  
be awesome...


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090507/49bcfdcf/attachment-0001.htm>

From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Fri May  8 05:41:24 2009
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 20:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source? / web
 service discovery
In-Reply-To: <c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
	<c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A03A9E4.4090708@bigasterisk.com>

nar wrote:
> -- BUT, the ability to point a SOAP proxy object at some WSDL and have 
> it automatically understand what functions are available to it and their 
> prototypes makes it so much more attractive to third party developers. 
> In terms of security, there's a variety of strategies you can utilize 
> that are part of the protocol rather than tacking them on at the end by 
> hand.

I've never experienced this 'automatically understand' phenomenon, so I 
can't say it's useless, but it sounds like the same thing we have in 
python. My python program can load any library and inspect the functions 
and classes that are available, and it could start calling them.

But I have never written a program that does this; I read the docs 
instead. My program isn't trying to write itself; I'm writing it. In my 
experience, it's mostly tools like pydoc/epydoc/etc are benefiting from 
that part of python's introspection [1]. The point is, this is how I use 
REST web services too (e.g. twitter): I read the docs, and I don't care 
what format they're in as long as it's human readable. I have never felt 
like there's a "discovery" feature that's missing. When I'm 
scraping^W^Wthere aren't docs, I follow whatever examples I can find. 
This is how a ton of python code gets written, too.

Anyway, there seems to be some work on an equivalent description format 
for URL-based web services called WADL. To see something live, make an 
arbitrary search on google, grab the resulting URL, paste it into 
http://tomayac.de/rest-describe/latest/RestDescribe.html# , and click 
'Analyze URI'. Among other things, you could now pick 'generate code' on 
the right and click python. The result will be a python class called 
Search whose __init__ takes the arguments that the google search used. 
Obviously if google published a more-documented WADL description, you'd 
get more detail than just the current parameters and guesses about their 
types.




[1] louie dispatcher is an interesting exception (among the libraries 
that I use). It adjusts its set of parameters based on what the function 
that's receiving the signal will accept.

From joshua.gallagher at gmail.com  Fri May  8 16:19:30 2009
From: joshua.gallagher at gmail.com (Joshua Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 07:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <3548F2B9-7236-4A98-B967-F8866F0AFBE4@glenjarvis.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>
	<cd7dd44d0905071519tb6a65e0vaebbf15761ba4dc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3548F2B9-7236-4A98-B967-F8866F0AFBE4@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <9bb4e5be0905080719j1cd01279q14c12141dff34c37@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Glen,

I do software QA for a company that makes a storage appliance.  The
management system (from which the GUI and CLI are based) is written in
Java.  To aid in the testing of the product, all of the management
functions in the appliance are exposed via SOAP.  This allows the test
team to do substantial testing of the management functions without
screen scraping a CLI or using a Web robot against the GUI.

For the test automation, we needed a SOAP client.  We had great
success with ZSI as a SOAP client.  You can find details about ZSI
here:
http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/

I highly recommend "Holger Joukl's implementation paper", found on the
same page.  ZSI is an active community and quite helpful.  While I
have never used the server-side of ZSI, if it works as well as the
client side does, then it should do well for you.

The only significant downside to ZSI is that it only supports SOAP 1.1
which can be very limiting.  SOAP 1.2 supports a far richer set of
objects and data types than 1.1.  If anyone on this list knows of a
good SOAP 1.2 client in Python I'd be happy to hear about it.

Joshua



On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> You're aware that when TikiTag changed their name to Touchatag that
> their emphasis switched from RFID to QR codes?
>
> This is *awesome.* ?I knew they changed their names, but not why. Okay, so I
> scrapped about three months of work... But, I think I can implement the same
> functionality as a developer on the touchatag platform.
> Oh, and what I *didn't* know that touchatag is already supporting are Near
> Field Communication (NFC) phones. I didn't know about NFC enabled phones...
> Why is there too much to learn in this world and so little time? :)
> Thanks again for the help... :)
>
> Anyone know any good SOAP books -- specific to Python examples would be
> awesome...
>
> Glen
> --
> glen at glenjarvis.com
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri May  8 21:34:11 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source?
In-Reply-To: <3548F2B9-7236-4A98-B967-F8866F0AFBE4@glenjarvis.com>
References: <cd7dd44d0905071319p10bdf0fcre9c312ea94b03b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C0E8768-F2D3-4A2B-B282-7B660173F925@glenjarvis.com>
	<cd7dd44d0905071519tb6a65e0vaebbf15761ba4dc4@mail.gmail.com>
	<3548F2B9-7236-4A98-B967-F8866F0AFBE4@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905081234i29a635c7nd2a9d4388f313eac@mail.gmail.com>

> Anyone know any good SOAP books -- specific to Python examples would be
> awesome...

Oh gosh, now you have me started:

http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2005/10/ajax-humor.html

AJAX: Humor
Have you ever noticed that some of your best work happens in the bathroom?

The other day I was trying to resolve a particularly sticky user
interface problem. I thought I'd try out some AJAX, Asynchronous
JavaScript and XML. It wasn't really working out, and although they
really aren't the same thing, I tried some CLOROX, Common Language
Object Reference Over XML. Displeased with that, I fell back to COMET,
Common Object Method External Transport. Next I thought I'd try some
old fashioned BLEACH, Binary Language Exports And C Headers; however I
made sure to remove all the COMET first because I've heard that mixing
COMET and BLEACH can have disastrous side effects. I think I was most
satisfied with CLOROX, especially thanks to its BLEACH heritage. I
found that all of these options were better than SOAP, Simple Object
Access Protocol, which leaves a sticky substance behind that is nearly
impossible to get rid of.

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri May  8 21:46:34 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:46:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source? / web
	service discovery
In-Reply-To: <4A03A9E4.4090708@bigasterisk.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
	<c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
	<4A03A9E4.4090708@bigasterisk.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905081246w78f274b2kd41b32bc2ab95455@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com> wrote:
> nar wrote:
>>
>> -- BUT, the ability to point a SOAP proxy object at some WSDL and have it
>> automatically understand what functions are available to it and their
>> prototypes makes it so much more attractive to third party developers. In
>> terms of security, there's a variety of strategies you can utilize that are
>> part of the protocol rather than tacking them on at the end by hand.
>
> I've never experienced this 'automatically understand' phenomenon, so I
> can't say it's useless, but it sounds like the same thing we have in python.
> My python program can load any library and inspect the functions and classes
> that are available, and it could start calling them.
>
> But I have never written a program that does this; I read the docs instead.
> My program isn't trying to write itself; I'm writing it. In my experience,
> it's mostly tools like pydoc/epydoc/etc are benefiting from that part of
> python's introspection [1]. The point is, this is how I use REST web
> services too (e.g. twitter): I read the docs, and I don't care what format
> they're in as long as it's human readable. I have never felt like there's a
> "discovery" feature that's missing. When I'm scraping^W^Wthere aren't docs,
> I follow whatever examples I can find. This is how a ton of python code gets
> written, too.
>
> Anyway, there seems to be some work on an equivalent description format for
> URL-based web services called WADL. To see something live, make an arbitrary
> search on google, grab the resulting URL, paste it into
> http://tomayac.de/rest-describe/latest/RestDescribe.html# , and click
> 'Analyze URI'. Among other things, you could now pick 'generate code' on the
> right and click python. The result will be a python class called Search
> whose __init__ takes the arguments that the google search used. Obviously if
> google published a more-documented WADL description, you'd get more detail
> than just the current parameters and guesses about their types.
>
> [1] louie dispatcher is an interesting exception (among the libraries that I
> use). It adjusts its set of parameters based on what the function that's
> receiving the signal will accept.

"RESTful Web Services" wasn't yet overly enthusiastic about WADL.
WADL will be really cool when every Web service starts providing the
WADL file themselves.

Drew, you've coded in XML-RPC.  Wasn't that so much easier than REST?
I think that part of the reason it's easier is because more of the API
handling gruntwork can be done automatically.

This was argued about on my blog:
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2008/12/books-restful-web-services.html.
One guy argued that XML-RPC was convenient, but not correct.  I don't
buy his argument that to be correct, something has to be hard.
Working with types in Python is easy, but pure Python never lets me
write code that will coredump (uh, I think).

My two cents,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Sat May  9 06:50:44 2009
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 21:50:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source? / web
 service discovery
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905081246w78f274b2kd41b32bc2ab95455@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>	<c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>	<4A03A9E4.4090708@bigasterisk.com>
	<c41f67b90905081246w78f274b2kd41b32bc2ab95455@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A050BA4.8030001@bigasterisk.com>

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> WADL will be really cool when every Web service starts providing the
> WADL file themselves.

That's true, but you don't have to wait for *every* web service nor do 
they have to write their *own* WADL descriptions. If someone translated 
the flickr API docs to WADL, that would be immediately useful. Or so I 
would assume, but I'm happy with the current state

> 
> Drew, you've coded in XML-RPC.  Wasn't that so much easier than REST?
> I think that part of the reason it's easier is because more of the API
> handling gruntwork can be done automatically.

It's about the same, except I don't have several GUI and console 
browsers available for testing xmlrpc. And when the request or response 
is a big binary file, the REST support is better.

I'm using py-restclient, so my calls look like this:

# finally some python on the baypiggies list!
addressBook = restclient.Resource("http://addressbook.com")
addressBook.get("search", first="Drew", phone="12345")
addressBook.post("photo/drewp", open("me.jpg").read(),
                  {'Content-Type' : 'image/jpeg'})

Most of the systems I talk to can return JSON, so my response handling 
in python is usually just a jsonlib.loads() call. I get roughly the same 
type support XMLRPC offers. The services that can only return XML need 
an ElementTree.fromString call, which is certainly more complicated, but 
not terrible.

Now that I think more about it, my development environment is a _lot_ 
better when I'm working with REST than with XMLRPC (again, given the 
systems I'm playing with these days). I test with curl and firebug as 
well as ipython; the REST services I create have doc pages with live 
html form demos in them; huge documents can be streamed; I can insert 
http caches; low-level debugging by sniffing the traffic is reasonable; etc.




That reminds me: I learned from this interesting presentation 
(http://www.infoq.com/presentations/mnot-http-status-1108) that squid 
cache has a cool mode where it can return stale data while it fetches 
new data. See here for a diagram and better description:

  http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/12/12/stale

That's the kind of thing I never get around to adding to my various 
hand-made caches, yet it seems really useful for high-performance cases.


From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May  9 07:52:34 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 22:52:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Do you think this would be cool open source? / web
	service discovery
In-Reply-To: <4A050BA4.8030001@bigasterisk.com>
References: <EB4AC484-FE5D-44D1-846D-8D64D8720856@glenjarvis.com>
	<c9e7e06dfd99335c6248719e22e6b51a@smtp.hushmail.com>
	<4A03A9E4.4090708@bigasterisk.com>
	<c41f67b90905081246w78f274b2kd41b32bc2ab95455@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A050BA4.8030001@bigasterisk.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905082252x5b02b282y1523936f58a2ffbf@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com> wrote:
> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>>
>> WADL will be really cool when every Web service starts providing the
>> WADL file themselves.
>
> That's true, but you don't have to wait for *every* web service nor do they
> have to write their *own* WADL descriptions. If someone translated the
> flickr API docs to WADL, that would be immediately useful. Or so I would
> assume, but I'm happy with the current state
>
>>
>> Drew, you've coded in XML-RPC. ?Wasn't that so much easier than REST?
>> I think that part of the reason it's easier is because more of the API
>> handling gruntwork can be done automatically.
>
> It's about the same, except I don't have several GUI and console browsers
> available for testing xmlrpc. And when the request or response is a big
> binary file, the REST support is better.
>
> I'm using py-restclient, so my calls look like this:
>
> # finally some python on the baypiggies list!
> addressBook = restclient.Resource("http://addressbook.com")
> addressBook.get("search", first="Drew", phone="12345")
> addressBook.post("photo/drewp", open("me.jpg").read(),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? {'Content-Type' : 'image/jpeg'})
>
> Most of the systems I talk to can return JSON, so my response handling in
> python is usually just a jsonlib.loads() call. I get roughly the same type
> support XMLRPC offers. The services that can only return XML need an
> ElementTree.fromString call, which is certainly more complicated, but not
> terrible.
>
> Now that I think more about it, my development environment is a _lot_ better
> when I'm working with REST than with XMLRPC (again, given the systems I'm
> playing with these days). I test with curl and firebug as well as ipython;
> the REST services I create have doc pages with live html form demos in them;
> huge documents can be streamed; I can insert http caches; low-level
> debugging by sniffing the traffic is reasonable; etc.
>
>
>
>
> That reminds me: I learned from this interesting presentation
> (http://www.infoq.com/presentations/mnot-http-status-1108) that squid cache
> has a cool mode where it can return stale data while it fetches new data.
> See here for a diagram and better description:
>
> ?http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/12/12/stale
>
> That's the kind of thing I never get around to adding to my various
> hand-made caches, yet it seems really useful for high-performance cases.

Well argued, Drew.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun May 10 14:28:40 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 05:28:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] "import antigravity" in action
Message-ID: <20090510122840.GA18555@panix.com>

>From comp.lang.python:

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/05/06/funny-pictures-behavior-20/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Mon May 11 20:30:01 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:30:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django | Clean Design Question
Message-ID: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>

Since I've been using Django this past year, I've slowly learned how  
to be more dynamic and DRY using the Django framework.

For example, in the very beginning, if I were using newforms (now  
forms), I would create a form that mimic'ed the model (unless  
modelforms were really easy).

Now, I've been using model forms and doing something like this for  
quite a while:

from django.forms import ModelForm

class PIGDemoForm(ModelForm):
     class Meta:
         model = Grant

     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         super(PIGDemoForm, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
         self.fields['date_received'].widget =\
             forms.TextInput(attrs={'class': 'date-pick'})
         ...etc...


Now, I have two models, we'll call model1 and model2. And, they both  
have a name attribute. Because I normalize data, I never do something  
like "model1.model1_name", but instead "model1.name." But, it's  
getting me in trouble.

Both forms have a 'name' attribute. And, both forms are in a template  
together. (I mean that both form instances are created for the  
specific instance of the model in question, and are displayed together  
(very interleaved) in a template). The response that I get back, via  
request.POST instantiates both forms:

form1 = Form1(request.POST, instance=blah1)
form2 = Form2(request.POST, instance=blah2)

[Note I'm translating this from a domain specific problem to generic  
(form1, form2, etc.) on the fly. There's room for error]

Now, if request.POST has only one 'name' then form1 and form2 are  
getting the same name, obviously causing a problem.

My question is specific to a better design. I see the following  
options (did I miss any):
1) Manually create one form that mimics model1 and model2 together  
(violates DRY, and makes verbose and less useable code)

2) Change my model names to be something like (model1.model1_name,  
model2.model2_name). This violates normalization rules (and has an  
impact on other code already written).

3) Try 'hacking' the form temporarily... something like:

    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        super(blah blah blah)

        blah blah

        self.fields['grant_name'] = self.fields['name']

        If this third option is chosen, I need to either:

         a) move the self.fields['grant_name'] back to  
self.fields['name'] before using the form shortcut save() method, [and  
I scratch my head on how. Do I need to look at the pre-save signals,  
etc.]
         b) Create a new model manually, specifying a mapping of  
"self.cleaned_data['grant_name']" to the model's "name" property. This  
has the same feel (redundant and less dynamic) as the above solutions,  
but may be the best we can do in this situation.

Please note that the database is laid out in a very normalized manner  
per the request of the IT department of my customer. The user,  
however, doesn't understand these differences *at all* and just wants  
his data to look like it does when he types in a spreadsheet. So,  
there are competing design paradigms coming from two different people.  
That difference is something we're going to have to live with in this  
design.

When I start getting into this kind of place, I think it's time for me  
to stop, put the keyboard down, and think... This is a very common  
design pattern: what do most people do?


Thanks for listening and any fresh perspective would be welcomed.


All the best,


Glen Jarvis
--
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090511/81a3fabd/attachment.htm>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue May 12 02:32:19 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:32:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django | Clean Design Question
In-Reply-To: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
References: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <20090512003219.GA21028@panix.com>

On Mon, May 11, 2009, Glen Jarvis wrote:
>
> Now, I have two models, we'll call model1 and model2. And, they both  
> have a name attribute. Because I normalize data, I never do something  
> like "model1.model1_name", but instead "model1.name." But, it's getting 
> me in trouble.

Where do the names "model1" and "model2" get created?  (I'm not familiar
with Django and I don't see where these names come from.)

In similar situations, what I've done in the past is made the forms use
HTML variable names such as "model1.name" and "model2.name".  I don't
know how that plays with Django and what kind of parsing you'd need to
add (if any).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue May 12 02:54:53 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:54:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django | Clean Design Question
In-Reply-To: <20090512003219.GA21028@panix.com>
References: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
	<20090512003219.GA21028@panix.com>
Message-ID: <FE783075-0114-449C-BE1C-CDACD664F50A@glenjarvis.com>

>> Now, I have two models, we'll call model1 and model2. And, they both
>> have a name attribute. Because I normalize data, I never do something
>> like "model1.model1_name", but instead "model1.name." But, it's  
>> getting
>> me in trouble.
>
> Where do the names "model1" and "model2" get created?  (I'm not  
> familiar
> with Django and I don't see where these names come from.)

They are created in the models.py file.

> In similar situations, what I've done in the past is made the forms  
> use
> HTML variable names such as "model1.name" and "model2.name".  I don't
> know how that plays with Django and what kind of parsing you'd need to
> add (if any).

There, unfortunately, are set by the form field attributes (and if I  
use model forms, then they come from the models).

It's all very specific to Django, unfortunately =(


Thanks, though.... :)

I hope you're doing well..


Glen
--
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090511/e0c63b27/attachment-0001.htm>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Tue May 12 03:09:46 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:09:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django | Clean Design Question
In-Reply-To: <D5A55237-761F-4E28-BFAB-5D9BF2AB4D0E@zuber.net>
References: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
	<D5A55237-761F-4E28-BFAB-5D9BF2AB4D0E@zuber.net>
Message-ID: <41430DE1-9426-418E-9784-3F2F5CCCB7B6@glenjarvis.com>

> Have you looked at the 'prefix' keyword arg for forms?  If I'm  
> understanding your problem correctly, I think that's what it's for.

I haven't tried this yet, but this seems *exactly* the programming  
paradigm I expected. I knew this wasn't the first time someone ran  
into this.

> I just looked it up in the docs and found it here:
> http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#prefixes-for-forms

Excellent

> It doesn't seem as clear as I remember it being, so if you need more  
> details, please feel free to ask.

I have enough to go on now that I can research, dig and experiment.. I  
think this got me over the hump..

Thank  you,


Glen
--
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090511/58ca9c14/attachment.htm>

From rob at zuber.net  Tue May 12 03:03:16 2009
From: rob at zuber.net (Robert Zuber)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:03:16 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django | Clean Design Question
In-Reply-To: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
References: <AAC061E4-1258-443D-8427-15C2D6A42F0B@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <D5A55237-761F-4E28-BFAB-5D9BF2AB4D0E@zuber.net>

Glen,

Have you looked at the 'prefix' keyword arg for forms?  If I'm  
understanding your problem correctly, I think that's what it's for.

I just looked it up in the docs and found it here:
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#prefixes-for-forms

It doesn't seem as clear as I remember it being, so if you need more  
details, please feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Rob.


On May 11, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote:

> Since I've been using Django this past year, I've slowly learned how  
> to be more dynamic and DRY using the Django framework.
>
> For example, in the very beginning, if I were using newforms (now  
> forms), I would create a form that mimic'ed the model (unless  
> modelforms were really easy).
>
> Now, I've been using model forms and doing something like this for  
> quite a while:
>
> from django.forms import ModelForm
>
> class PIGDemoForm(ModelForm):
>     class Meta:
>         model = Grant
>
>     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>         super(PIGDemoForm, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
>         self.fields['date_received'].widget =\
>             forms.TextInput(attrs={'class': 'date-pick'})
>         ...etc...
>
>
> Now, I have two models, we'll call model1 and model2. And, they both  
> have a name attribute. Because I normalize data, I never do  
> something like "model1.model1_name", but instead "model1.name." But,  
> it's getting me in trouble.
>
> Both forms have a 'name' attribute. And, both forms are in a  
> template together. (I mean that both form instances are created for  
> the specific instance of the model in question, and are displayed  
> together (very interleaved) in a template). The response that I get  
> back, via request.POST instantiates both forms:
>
> form1 = Form1(request.POST, instance=blah1)
> form2 = Form2(request.POST, instance=blah2)
>
> [Note I'm translating this from a domain specific problem to generic  
> (form1, form2, etc.) on the fly. There's room for error]
>
> Now, if request.POST has only one 'name' then form1 and form2 are  
> getting the same name, obviously causing a problem.
>
> My question is specific to a better design. I see the following  
> options (did I miss any):
> 1) Manually create one form that mimics model1 and model2 together  
> (violates DRY, and makes verbose and less useable code)
>
> 2) Change my model names to be something like (model1.model1_name,  
> model2.model2_name). This violates normalization rules (and has an  
> impact on other code already written).
>
> 3) Try 'hacking' the form temporarily... something like:
>
>    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
>        super(blah blah blah)
>
>        blah blah
>
>        self.fields['grant_name'] = self.fields['name']
>
>        If this third option is chosen, I need to either:
>
>         a) move the self.fields['grant_name'] back to  
> self.fields['name'] before using the form shortcut save() method,  
> [and I scratch my head on how. Do I need to look at the pre-save  
> signals, etc.]
>         b) Create a new model manually, specifying a mapping of  
> "self.cleaned_data['grant_name']" to the model's "name" property.  
> This has the same feel (redundant and less dynamic) as the above  
> solutions, but may be the best we can do in this situation.
>
> Please note that the database is laid out in a very normalized  
> manner per the request of the IT department of my customer. The  
> user, however, doesn't understand these differences *at all* and  
> just wants his data to look like it does when he types in a  
> spreadsheet. So, there are competing design paradigms coming from  
> two different people. That difference is something we're going to  
> have to live with in this design.
>
> When I start getting into this kind of place, I think it's time for  
> me to stop, put the keyboard down, and think... This is a very  
> common design pattern: what do most people do?
>
>
> Thanks for listening and any fresh perspective would be welcomed.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> --
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From ravikondamuru at gmail.com  Tue May 12 05:58:49 2009
From: ravikondamuru at gmail.com (Ravi Kondamuru)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
Message-ID: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression test
scripts.

The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The capabilities
I am looking for are:

1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later

I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
python-based application and hence not a fit.

Any suggestions/ pointers appreciated.

thanks,
Ravi.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090511/60d4efc5/attachment.htm>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue May 12 06:18:06 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:18:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>

On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
> 
> I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression test
> scripts.
> 
> The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The capabilities
> I am looking for are:
> 
> 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
> 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
> 
> I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
> python-based application and hence not a fit.

What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
that you compare against expected values.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

From ravikondamuru at gmail.com  Tue May 12 06:27:01 2009
From: ravikondamuru at gmail.com (Ravi Kondamuru)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:27:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
Message-ID: <36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>

I am testing the actual functionality. The test scripts generate
dns/http/snmp protocol traffic and validate their responses.
Is there a way to setup a framework like pyunit to generate html reports,
with links to error info etc?
thanks,
Ravi.

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
> >
> > I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
> test
> > scripts.
> >
> > The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
> capabilities
> > I am looking for are:
> >
> > 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
> > 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
> >
> > I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
> > python-based application and hence not a fit.
>
> What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
> UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
> you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
> Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
> that you compare against expected values.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
> --Bill Harlan
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090511/36b6aaa9/attachment-0001.htm>

From mrjean1 at gmail.com  Tue May 12 11:37:40 2009
From: mrjean1 at gmail.com (Jean Brouwers)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 02:37:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
	<36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39a48f50905120237p3861f2dco50fbbf466e062632@mail.gmail.com>

QMTest <http://www.codesourcery.com/qmtest/index_html> may help.
/Jean Brouwers


On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Ravi Kondamuru <ravikondamuru at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am testing the actual functionality. The test scripts generate
> dns/http/snmp protocol traffic and validate their responses.
> Is there a way to setup a framework like pyunit to generate html reports,
> with links to error info etc?
> thanks,
> Ravi.
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>> >
>> > I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
>> test
>> > scripts.
>> >
>> > The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>> capabilities
>> > I am looking for are:
>> >
>> > 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>> > 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>> >
>> > I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>> > python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>
>> What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
>> UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
>> you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
>> Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
>> that you compare against expected values.
>> --
>> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>
>> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
>> --Bill Harlan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090512/5431d57f/attachment.htm>

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Tue May 12 16:17:10 2009
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
	<36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.uttlyuhvoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

The are two part to that problem.

1. Use Python to drive the test target.
2. Generate HTML report.

I'm still not ver clear what the test target is like. Assuming they are  
some shell scripts, you can use Python to drive them. Having a Expect-like  
library may help.

For 2, you can use my little library HTMLTestRunner. It works with  
unittest.

http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html


Wai Yip


> I am testing the actual functionality. The test scripts generate
> dns/http/snmp protocol traffic and validate their responses.
> Is there a way to setup a framework like pyunit to generate html reports,
> with links to error info etc?
> thanks,
> Ravi.
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>> >
>> > I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
>> test
>> > scripts.
>> >
>> > The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>> capabilities
>> > I am looking for are:
>> >
>> > 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>> > 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>> >
>> > I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>> > python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>
>> What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
>> UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
>> you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
>> Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
>> that you compare against expected values.
>> --
>> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>
>> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
>> --Bill Harlan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com  Tue May 12 16:56:25 2009
From: stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com (Stephen Cattaneo)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:56:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <op.uttlyuhvoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
	<36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uttlyuhvoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9cc0dd6f0905120756w30dd3237n1b926543fb6e2251@mail.gmail.com>

"""
Having a Expect-like library may help.
"""

At my last position I used pexpect [ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect/ ]
extensively. The module seemed to be pretty mature and the author was also
fairly responsive to the occasional question.

-S

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The are two part to that problem.
>
> 1. Use Python to drive the test target.
> 2. Generate HTML report.
>
> I'm still not ver clear what the test target is like. Assuming they are
> some shell scripts, you can use Python to drive them. Having a Expect-like
> library may help.
>
> For 2, you can use my little library HTMLTestRunner. It works with
> unittest.
>
> http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html
>
>
> Wai Yip
>
>
>
>  I am testing the actual functionality. The test scripts generate
>> dns/http/snmp protocol traffic and validate their responses.
>> Is there a way to setup a framework like pyunit to generate html reports,
>> with links to error info etc?
>> thanks,
>> Ravi.
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>>  On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
>>> test
>>> > scripts.
>>> >
>>> > The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>>> capabilities
>>> > I am looking for are:
>>> >
>>> > 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>>> > 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>>> >
>>> > I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>>> > python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>>
>>> What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
>>> UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
>>> you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
>>> Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
>>> that you compare against expected values.
>>> --
>>> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
>>> --Bill Harlan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
---
Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement.

-- C.S. Lewis
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090512/b048a9a9/attachment.htm>

From ravikondamuru at gmail.com  Tue May 12 19:20:27 2009
From: ravikondamuru at gmail.com (Ravi Kondamuru)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:20:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <9cc0dd6f0905120756w30dd3237n1b926543fb6e2251@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090512041806.GA4616@panix.com>
	<36601b010905112127u6c7354aas6332b16ae02564b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uttlyuhvoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<9cc0dd6f0905120756w30dd3237n1b926543fb6e2251@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36601b010905121020t20aca636q5c7cb58f725ef920@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for the suggestions.
I am going to try QMTest which looks like a complete framework, though it is
not clear yet if I can get html reporting
and HTMLTestRunner, which looks like a simple addon to unittest to get html
reports.

Ravi.

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Stephen Cattaneo <
stephen.cattaneo at gmail.com> wrote:

> """
> Having a Expect-like library may help.
> """
>
> At my last position I used pexpect [ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pexpect/] extensively. The module seemed to be pretty mature and the author was also
> fairly responsive to the occasional question.
>
> -S
>
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> The are two part to that problem.
>>
>> 1. Use Python to drive the test target.
>> 2. Generate HTML report.
>>
>> I'm still not ver clear what the test target is like. Assuming they are
>> some shell scripts, you can use Python to drive them. Having a Expect-like
>> library may help.
>>
>> For 2, you can use my little library HTMLTestRunner. It works with
>> unittest.
>>
>> http://tungwaiyip.info/software/HTMLTestRunner.html
>>
>>
>> Wai Yip
>>
>>
>>
>>  I am testing the actual functionality. The test scripts generate
>>> dns/http/snmp protocol traffic and validate their responses.
>>> Is there a way to setup a framework like pyunit to generate html reports,
>>> with links to error info etc?
>>> thanks,
>>> Ravi.
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Mon, May 11, 2009, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
>>>> test
>>>> > scripts.
>>>> >
>>>> > The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>>>> capabilities
>>>> > I am looking for are:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>>>> > 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>>>> >
>>>> > I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>>>> > python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>>>
>>>> What interface do you use for accessing the router?  Are you testing the
>>>> UI or the actual functionality?  For the former, assuming it's a web UI,
>>>> you probably want to use Selenium.  For the latter, just use the regular
>>>> Python testing frameworks, but presumably the units will be socket tests
>>>> that you compare against expected values.
>>>> --
>>>> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
>>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>>
>>>> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
>>>> --Bill Harlan
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement.
>
> -- C.S. Lewis
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090512/9eb8674e/attachment-0001.htm>

From echerlin at gmail.com  Wed May 13 02:06:57 2009
From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:06:57 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] "import antigravity" in action
In-Reply-To: <20090510122840.GA18555@panix.com>
References: <20090510122840.GA18555@panix.com>
Message-ID: <e574f6eb0905121706i1b17fea2nf67cf134a10f9cdf@mail.gmail.com>

Have people noticed the Python 3.0 antigravity library?

/usr/lib/python3.0/antigravity.py

import webbrowser

webbrowser.open("http://xkcd.com/353/")

On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> >From comp.lang.python:
>
> http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/05/06/funny-pictures-behavior-20/
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ? http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
> --Bill Harlan
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed May 13 04:05:46 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:05:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>

That is exactly what Pycopia test framework does (among other things).

http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/

It has all that and more.

There is not much documentation, but I can give you some help.



On May 11, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a test automation framework that executes  
> regression test scripts.
>
> The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The  
> capabilities I am looking for are:
>
> 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
> 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>
> I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing  
> python-based application and hence not a fit.
>
> Any suggestions/ pointers appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Ravi.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From max at SlimmerSoft.com  Wed May 13 03:45:54 2009
From: max at SlimmerSoft.com (Max Slimmer)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:45:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] strange behavior with tool inherited from dict.
Message-ID: <4A0A2652.4040002@SlimmerSoft.com>

I have a routine I got from Active State cookbook Recipe 361668 ages ago 
and have been using it without any problems for literally years. I will 
include it below.

I encountered a condition where it doesn't behave normally, but I was 
unable to create a "simple" example to show the problem, so have 
included some trace to illustrate the problem.  Note that emp shown 
below is a trimed down version of the emp that failed as I had to 
sanitize it a bit.

emp is an instance of the attribute/dictionary class shown below, and 
when I try to replace the deds member, using emp.update(a), with an 
empty dict it affects emp['deds'] but not emp.deds.

As I said I have never experienced this behavior before, and it appears 
only under some conditions.  I have been able to fix it by overloading 
the update method similar to __init__ assigning self.__dict__ = self.

Any enlightenment on why this is happening (and only sometimes)

thanks,
max

 >>> emp
{'sal.rateTyp': 'S', 'clc.fedallow': 0, 'fstnme': 'Patty', 'recnum': 54, 
'midini': u'A', 'state_': 'PA', 'deds': {34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 
'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}, 'dedsP': [], 'status': 1, 
'hertge': 2, 'dteina': datetime.date(1899, 12, 30), 'clc.wrkstate': 
'FL', 'clc.stmrtsts': 'M', 'clc.sui': '59', 'dtehre': 
datetime.date(1998, 8, 3), 'zipcde': '18042', 'gender': 2, 'payprd': 1, 
'sal.payrt1': 875.0, 'clc.fedmrtsts': 'M', 'msc.midini':
  u'A', 'taxste': u'PA', 'clc.lvstate': 'PA', 'dtebth': 
datetime.date(1976, 7, 9)}

 >>> type(emp)       # I have named this class adOBJ not attrdict as in 
original recipe.
<class 'pytools.adOBJ'>
 >>> a = dict(deds={})
 >>> emp.deds            # get via member name
{34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}
 >>> emp.get('deds')     # get via dict
{34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}
 >>> emp.update(a)
 >>> emp.get('deds')     # looks like deds is now empty
{}
 >>> emp.deds            # but it really isn't
{34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}

 >>> ??????
	

class attrdict(dict):
     """A dict whose items can also be accessed as member variables.

     >>> d = attrdict(a=1, b=2)
     >>> d['c'] = 3
     >>> print d.a, d.b, d.c
     1 2 3
     >>> d.b = 10
     >>> print d['b']
     10

     # but be careful, it's easy to hide methods
     >>> print d.get('c')
     3
     >>> d['get'] = 4
     >>> print d.get('a')
     Traceback (most recent call last):
     TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
     """
     def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
         dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
         self.__dict__ = self


-- 
Max Slimmer
email: max at SlimmerSoft.com

From ravikondamuru at gmail.com  Wed May 13 06:44:50 2009
From: ravikondamuru at gmail.com (Ravi Kondamuru)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:44:50 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to try pycopia. Can you provide some basic info to use the QA
framework to run a test and see its results in a report? I see there is
another project you own plinth built on pycopia.

thanks,
Ravi.

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:

> That is exactly what Pycopia test framework does (among other things).
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/
>
> It has all that and more.
>
> There is not much documentation, but I can give you some help.
>
>
>
>
> On May 11, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>
>   Hi,
>>
>> I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression test
>> scripts.
>>
>> The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>> capabilities I am looking for are:
>>
>> 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>> 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>>
>> I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>> python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>
>> Any suggestions/ pointers appreciated.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Ravi.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090512/cd7f5d66/attachment.htm>

From adam at hupp.org  Wed May 13 07:18:07 2009
From: adam at hupp.org (Adam Hupp)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:18:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] strange behavior with tool inherited from dict.
In-Reply-To: <4A0A2652.4040002@SlimmerSoft.com>
References: <4A0A2652.4040002@SlimmerSoft.com>
Message-ID: <766a29bd0905122218u478107e9s7259bdef0e8c576a@mail.gmail.com>

My guess is that dict.update() is implemented in C and doesn't look at
self.__dict__ at all.  Something like this might work better (barely
tested):

class attrdict(dict):
    def __setattr__(self, attr, val):
        self[attr] = val

    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        return self[attr]

-Adam

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Max Slimmer <max at slimmersoft.com> wrote:
> I have a routine I got from Active State cookbook Recipe 361668 ages ago and
> have been using it without any problems for literally years. I will include
> it below.
>
> I encountered a condition where it doesn't behave normally, but I was unable
> to create a "simple" example to show the problem, so have included some
> trace to illustrate the problem. ?Note that emp shown below is a trimed down
> version of the emp that failed as I had to sanitize it a bit.
>
> emp is an instance of the attribute/dictionary class shown below, and when I
> try to replace the deds member, using emp.update(a), with an empty dict it
> affects emp['deds'] but not emp.deds.
>
> As I said I have never experienced this behavior before, and it appears only
> under some conditions. ?I have been able to fix it by overloading the update
> method similar to __init__ assigning self.__dict__ = self.
>
> Any enlightenment on why this is happening (and only sometimes)
>
> thanks,
> max
>
>>>> emp
> {'sal.rateTyp': 'S', 'clc.fedallow': 0, 'fstnme': 'Patty', 'recnum': 54,
> 'midini': u'A', 'state_': 'PA', 'deds': {34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10,
> 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}, 'dedsP': [], 'status': 1,
> 'hertge': 2, 'dteina': datetime.date(1899, 12, 30), 'clc.wrkstate': 'FL',
> 'clc.stmrtsts': 'M', 'clc.sui': '59', 'dtehre': datetime.date(1998, 8, 3),
> 'zipcde': '18042', 'gender': 2, 'payprd': 1, 'sal.payrt1': 875.0,
> 'clc.fedmrtsts': 'M', 'msc.midini':
> ?u'A', 'taxste': u'PA', 'clc.lvstate': 'PA', 'dtebth': datetime.date(1976,
> 7, 9)}
>
>>>> type(emp) ? ? ? # I have named this class adOBJ not attrdict as in
>>>> original recipe.
> <class 'pytools.adOBJ'>
>>>> a = dict(deds={})
>>>> emp.deds ? ? ? ? ? ?# get via member name
> {34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}
>>>> emp.get('deds') ? ? # get via dict
> {34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}
>>>> emp.update(a)
>>>> emp.get('deds') ? ? # looks like deds is now empty
> {}
>>>> emp.deds ? ? ? ? ? ?# but it really isn't
> {34: {'DEDUCTIONAMOUNT': 10, 'DEDUCTIONCODE': 'K', 'DEDFACTOR': None}}
>
>>>> ??????
>
>
> class attrdict(dict):
> ? ?"""A dict whose items can also be accessed as member variables.
>
> ? ?>>> d = attrdict(a=1, b=2)
> ? ?>>> d['c'] = 3
> ? ?>>> print d.a, d.b, d.c
> ? ?1 2 3
> ? ?>>> d.b = 10
> ? ?>>> print d['b']
> ? ?10
>
> ? ?# but be careful, it's easy to hide methods
> ? ?>>> print d.get('c')
> ? ?3
> ? ?>>> d['get'] = 4
> ? ?>>> print d.get('a')
> ? ?Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
> ? ?"""
> ? ?def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
> ? ? ? ?dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
> ? ? ? ?self.__dict__ = self
>
>
> --
> Max Slimmer
> email: max at SlimmerSoft.com
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Adam Hupp | http://hupp.org/adam/

From nagappan at gmail.com  Wed May 13 07:28:40 2009
From: nagappan at gmail.com (Nagappan A)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:28:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>
	<36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d0602eb0905122228y189a840dv4844aeeab5043abc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Ravi,

Not sure, this fit your requirement, take a look at it
http://code.google.com/p/robotframework/

Thanks
Nagappan

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Ravi Kondamuru <ravikondamuru at gmail.com>wrote:

> I would like to try pycopia. Can you provide some basic info to use the QA
> framework to run a test and see its results in a report? I see there is
> another project you own plinth built on pycopia.
>
> thanks,
> Ravi.
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
>
>> That is exactly what Pycopia test framework does (among other things).
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/pycopia/
>>
>> It has all that and more.
>>
>> There is not much documentation, but I can give you some help.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 11, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
>>
>>   Hi,
>>>
>>> I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression
>>> test scripts.
>>>
>>> The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The
>>> capabilities I am looking for are:
>>>
>>> 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
>>> 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>>>
>>> I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing
>>> python-based application and hence not a fit.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions/ pointers appreciated.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Ravi.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Baypiggies mailing list
>>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Linux Desktop (GUI Application) Testing Project -
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org
http://nagappanal.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090512/9594a105/attachment.htm>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Wed May 13 10:32:41 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 01:32:41 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>
	<36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090513013241.522df74f@dartworks.biz>

On Tue, 12 May 2009 21:44:50 -0700
Ravi Kondamuru <ravikondamuru at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to try pycopia. Can you provide some basic info to use
> the QA framework to run a test and see its results in a report? I see
> there is another project you own plinth built on pycopia.?

I'll get you some instructions shortly. I can also provide a VMware
virtual machine with a complete install, ready to run. Can you use
that? the VMware Player is free, but you need a newer model PC to
run it. 


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 14 07:09:56 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:09:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] OpenSource | Think Geek | Python Hacking
Message-ID: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>

Okay, I'm day-dreaming with this one... but, just for a second  
imagine....

Open source, *MODULAR HARDWARE*. I've always imagined cell phones to  
be like this so you modularly add whatever components you want to make  
a single device. I like the idea that this hardware is a device that  
you "plug in a "GPS device" or "camera" or whatever sensor you need.  
Think of a swiss-army knife of mobile devices like this...

Anyhow, back to reality: Think Geek has found something awesome (not  
exactly what I dreamed about, but getting in the right ball park):

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/bdbd/

It's completely open source (Hardware and software). Unfortunately, I  
don't know Java (and am not that interested in learning Java). But, if  
it's open source, and since this community is so dog gone bright... I  
bet we could make a Python equivalent, or use Jython if nothing else...

Who's interested? I'm still a starving hacker, so there's no way I can  
afford this price tag. Anyone want to buy a toy like this and have a  
big play date where we all hack on it to make something cool in Jython  
or Python?

It's a limited offer, and Think Geek's been pretty honest about this  
in the past. They probably won't carry it for long, if it isn't  
already sold out.

Cheers,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com
http://www.glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090513/24eff34a/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May 14 07:38:08 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:38:08 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] OpenSource | Think Geek | Python Hacking
In-Reply-To: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
References: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905132238i427f63e2j50cb389bde6fa7d7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Okay, I'm day-dreaming with this one... but, just for a second imagine....
> Open source, *MODULAR HARDWARE*. I've always imagined cell phones to be like
> this so you modularly add whatever components you want to make a single
> device. I like the idea that this hardware is a device that you "plug in a
> "GPS device" or "camera" or whatever sensor you need. Think of a swiss-army
> knife of mobile devices like this...
> Anyhow, back to reality: Think Geek has found something awesome (not exactly
> what I dreamed about, but getting in the right ball park):
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/bdbd/
> It's completely open source (Hardware and software). Unfortunately, I don't
> know Java (and am not that interested in learning Java). But, if it's open
> source, and since this community is so dog gone bright... I bet we could
> make a Python equivalent, or use Jython if nothing else...
> Who's interested? I'm still a starving hacker, so there's no way I can
> afford this price tag. Anyone want to buy a toy like this and have a big
> play date where we all hack on it to make something cool in Jython or
> Python?
> It's a limited offer, and Think Geek's been pretty honest about this in the
> past. They probably won't carry it for long, if it isn't already sold out.
> Cheers,

If you want a phone with "open source" hardware, see
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page.  Unfortunately, it's not
really modular in the sense that you want.  I don't think you can
create an iPhone-like device in a modular way.  I.e. it takes a heck
of a lot of planning to get all the pieces to fit ;)

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From harry at p2presearch.com  Thu May 14 07:35:06 2009
From: harry at p2presearch.com (Harry Tormey)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:35:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Thursday May 21st 6pm @ Main San
	Francisco Public	Library
Message-ID: <20090514053506.GB7063@unworkable.org>

Hi All, 
The May PyGameSF meet up will be at the STONG conference room on the
first floor of the main San Francisco public library beside civic
center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we will reconvien to frjtz
on hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwords.This s presentations are:


 -Jared Sohn: All About My Flocking Project. This talk will give an    
overview of flocking and demonstrate a C++/Maya flocking implementation
used to animate rats for a college computer animation project.
    
-Brad Busse, Colin Bean, Harry Tormey : CampDivisible, an overview  
of the PyGameSF teams pyweek 8 entry. This presentation will cover the
concept, design and implementation of our entry, which was written with
pyglet. This is also an open invitation to any teams who participated
in pyweek from around the bay to come on down talk about your game and
celebrate the end of another fun pyweek.

PyGame SF is an informal group meet up in San Francisco for Software
engineers interested in python, OpenGL, audio, pygame, SDL,
programming and generally anything to do with multimedia development.
The format of our meetings typically involve several people giving
presentations on projects they are developing followed by group
discussion and feedback. 

If anyone else would like to give a micro presentation, show demos or
just talk about what they are doing or generally give examples of any
relevant software they are working on please feel free to head along

To subscribe to the pygamesf mailing list simply email
pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org 

-- 
Harry Tormey
Co Founder P2P Research
http://p2presearch.com
Founder PyGameSF
http://pygamesf.org
Software Engineer Digidesign
http://digidesign.com

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 14 07:46:56 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:46:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] OpenSource | Think Geek | Python Hacking
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905132238i427f63e2j50cb389bde6fa7d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
	<c41f67b90905132238i427f63e2j50cb389bde6fa7d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB00BE81-4C5E-4CD7-A3D9-97AFA160C37B@glenjarvis.com>

>> If you want a phone with "open source" hardware, see
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page.  Unfortunately, it's not
> really modular in the sense that you want.

Cool :)  There's also the G1 =)

>  I don't think you can
> create an iPhone-like device in a modular way.  I.e. it takes a heck
> of a lot of planning to get all the pieces to fit ;)

Yes, but I can *DREAM* can't I ;)

*stomp* I wanna pony ;)

hee hee


Cheers,  :)


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com
http://www.glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090513/306c8f51/attachment.htm>

From brent.tubbs at gmail.com  Thu May 14 15:25:19 2009
From: brent.tubbs at gmail.com (Brent Tubbs)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 06:25:19 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] OpenSource | Think Geek | Python Hacking
In-Reply-To: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
References: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <769bb4300905140625m66658ad5yf4c896bf6d50dfeb@mail.gmail.com>

> It's a limited offer, and Think Geek's been pretty honest about this in the
> past. They probably won't carry it for long, if it isn't already sold out.

I wouldn't worry too much about it selling out.  You can get it from
the manufacturer for the same price.  See http://store.buglabs.net/

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Okay, I'm day-dreaming with this one... but, just for a second imagine....
> Open source, *MODULAR HARDWARE*. I've always imagined cell phones to be like
> this so you modularly add whatever components you want to make a single
> device. I like the idea that this hardware is a device that you "plug in a
> "GPS device" or "camera" or whatever sensor you need. Think of a swiss-army
> knife of mobile devices like this...
> Anyhow, back to reality: Think Geek has found something awesome (not exactly
> what I dreamed about, but getting in the right ball park):
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/bdbd/
> It's completely open source (Hardware and software). Unfortunately, I don't
> know Java (and am not that interested in learning Java). But, if it's open
> source, and since this community is so dog gone bright... I bet we could
> make a Python equivalent, or use Jython if nothing else...
> Who's interested? I'm still a starving hacker, so there's no way I can
> afford this price tag. Anyone want to buy a toy like this and have a big
> play date where we all hack on it to make something cool in Jython or
> Python?
> It's a limited offer, and Think Geek's been pretty honest about this in the
> past. They probably won't carry it for long, if it isn't already sold out.
> Cheers,
>
> Glen
> --
> glen at glenjarvis.com
> http://www.glenjarvis.com
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From geverscott at foothill.edu  Thu May 14 16:44:33 2009
From: geverscott at foothill.edu (Scott Gever)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:44:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A0C2E51.20902@foothill.edu>

Software Testing Automation Framework (STAF) 
<http://staf.sourceforge.net/> might hold some interest for you.

Cheers,
Scott



Ravi Kondamuru wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a test automation framework that executes regression 
> test scripts.
>
> The tests are for a router like networking/firewall device. The 
> capabilities I am looking for are:
>
> 1. execute selected/all test suites to be written in python
> 2. generate/archive html reports to be viewable later
>
> I am looking at unittest, nose etc but they seem to be for testing 
> python-based application and hence not a fit.
>
> Any suggestions/ pointers appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> Ravi.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090514/7052063e/attachment.htm>

From meenalpant at gmail.com  Thu May 14 17:52:41 2009
From: meenalpant at gmail.com (Meenal Pant)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:52:41 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
Message-ID: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>

from Meenal. I am a Python developer and have recently relocated to
Bay Area from Urbana-Champaign. I have worked in Python for the last 5
years. In my most recent project http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ , python
was the core language for development.

As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads.  I am looking for
tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .

All advice and suggestions are appreciated,
Thanks
Meenal

From eric at ericwalstad.com  Thu May 14 18:37:44 2009
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:37:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20905140937i46ede88bxbae2958190ea94bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Meenal Pant <meenalpant at gmail.com> wrote:
> from Meenal. I am a Python developer and have recently relocated to
> Bay Area from Urbana-Champaign. I have worked in Python for the last 5
> years. In my most recent project http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ , python
> was the core language for development.
>
> As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
> applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads. ?I am looking for
> tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
> following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
> gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
> started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
>
> All advice and suggestions are appreciated,
> Thanks
> Meenal

Hi Meenal.  Welcome to the area and to this list/group.

You might consider pointing potential employers to a page where they
can find a resume or cv, and links to other information that would
help them quickly determine if your skills would be a good fit for
their needs.  While your blog has some interesting code samples, I
didn't see any links to other information describing your education
and experiences.  I did find your LinkedIn profile via Google search
but that profile doesn't go very deep.

In what part of the Bay Area are you located?  If you are in/near San
Francisco you might like joining the local Python and Django (and
other) Meetup groups.  Of course there are many other local SIGs, too.

Best of luck with your job search and, again, welcome!

Eric.

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu May 14 18:56:05 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:56:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com>

On Thu, May 14, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
> 
> As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
> applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads.  I am looking for
> tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
> following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
> gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
> started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .

Make sure you're monitoring the Jobs Board on www.python.org and keep
looking on Craigslist.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

From greencrab at gmail.com  Thu May 14 19:08:31 2009
From: greencrab at gmail.com (Zhi Min)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:08:31 +0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] =?windows-1252?q?=5BInvitation=5D__PyGameSF_meetup_T?=
	=?windows-1252?q?hursday_May_21st_6pm_=40_Thu_May_21_6pm_=96_8pm_?=
	=?windows-1252?q?=28baypiggies=40python=2Eorg=29?=
Message-ID: <0016e64601c2a1b54e0469e26038@google.com>

baypiggies at python.org, you are invited to

Title: [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Thursday May 21st 6pm
Time: Thu May 21 6pm ? 8pm (Timezone: Pacific Time)
Where: Main San Francisco Public Library
Calendar: baypiggies at python.org
Owner/Creator: greencrab at gmail.com

Description: Hi All,
The May PyGameSF meet up will be at the STONG conference room on the
first floor of the main San Francisco public library beside civic
center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we will reconvien to frjtz
on hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwords.This s presentations are:


  -Jared Sohn: All About My Flocking Project. This talk will give an
overview of flocking and demonstrate a C++/Maya flocking implementation
used to animate rats for a college computer animation project.

-Brad Busse, Colin Bean, Harry Tormey : CampDivisible, an overview
of the PyGameSF teams pyweek 8 entry. This presentation will cover the
concept, design and implementation of our entry, which was written with
pyglet. This is also an open invitation to any teams who participated
in pyweek from around the bay to come on down talk about your game and
celebrate the end of another fun pyweek.

PyGame SF is an informal group meet up in San Francisco for Software
engineers interested in python, OpenGL, audio, pygame, SDL,
programming and generally anything to do with multimedia development.
The format of our meetings typically involve several people giving
presentations on projects they are developing followed by group
discussion and feedback.

If anyone else would like to give a micro presentation, show demos or
just talk about what they are doing or generally give examples of any
relevant software they are working on please feel free to head along

To subscribe to the pygamesf mailing list simply email
pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org

-- 
Harry Tormey
Co Founder P2P Research
http://p2presearch.com
Founder PyGameSF
http://pygamesf.org
Software Engineer Digidesign
http://digidesign.com
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

You can view this event at  
http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=ZG9tZXQxMDQ0ZjYwdDVwODRvY2hzYmpjZW8gYmF5cGlnZ2llc0BweXRob24ub3Jn&tok=MTkjZ3JlZW5jcmFiQGdtYWlsLmNvbTQyYTdlZDEyMTVjNzljOTE5Mzg1ODlmNmZkZjM1NThkZWYwODY3MjA&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en



You are receiving this courtesy email at the account baypiggies at python.org  
because you are an attendee of this event.

To stop receiving future notifications for this event, decline this event.  
Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at  
http://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for  
your entire calendar.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090514/5c11d66b/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/calendar
Size: 3017 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090514/5c11d66b/attachment-0001.icz>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: invite.ics
Type: application/ics
Size: 3070 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090514/5c11d66b/attachment-0001.bin>

From greencrab at gmail.com  Thu May 14 19:46:10 2009
From: greencrab at gmail.com (Eric Lau)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:46:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies]
 =?utf-8?q?=5BInvitation=5D__PyGameSF_meetup_Thursday?=
 =?utf-8?q?_May_21st_6pm_=40_Thu_May_21_6pm_=E2=80=93_8pm_=28baypiggies=40?=
 =?utf-8?q?python=2Eorg=29?=
In-Reply-To: <0016e64601c2a1b54e0469e26038@google.com>
References: <0016e64601c2a1b54e0469e26038@google.com>
Message-ID: <4A0C58E2.9020001@gmail.com>

Oops, sorry about that.. I mess up on adding this to google calanedar,

Zhi Min wrote:
> 
> 
> Event Invitation
> 
> Title:
> 
> 	
> 
> [Baypiggies] PyGameSF meetup Thursday May 21st 6pm
> 
> Location:
> 
> 	
> 
> Main San Francisco Public Library
> 
> When:
> 
> 	
> 
> Thu 21 May 2009 06:00 PM ? 08:00 PM
> 
> Organizer:
> 
> 	
> 
> Zhi Min
> 
> Description:
> 
> 	
> 
> Hi All, The May PyGameSF meet up will be at the STONG conference room on 
> the first floor of the main San Francisco public library beside civic 
> center BART. The library closes at 8pm so we will reconvien to frjtz on 
> hayes street for dinner/drinks afterwords.This s presentations are: 
> -Jared Sohn: All About My Flocking Project. This talk will give an 
> overview of flocking and demonstrate a C++/Maya flocking implementation 
> used to animate rats for a college computer animation project. -Brad 
> Busse, Colin Bean, Harry Tormey : CampDivisible, an overview of the 
> PyGameSF teams pyweek 8 entry. This presentation will cover the concept, 
> design and implementation of our entry, which was written with pyglet. 
> This is also an open invitation to any teams who participated in pyweek 
> from around the bay to come on down talk about your game and celebrate 
> the end of another fun pyweek. PyGame SF is an informal group meet up in 
> San Francisco for Software engineers interested in python, OpenGL, 
> audio, pygame, SDL, programming and generally anything to do with 
> multimedia development. The format of our meetings typically involve 
> several people giving presentations on projects they are developing 
> followed by group discussion and feedback. If anyone else would like to 
> give a micro presentation, show demos or just talk about what they are 
> doing or generally give examples of any relevant software they are 
> working on please feel free to head along To subscribe to the pygamesf 
> mailing list simply email pygame-sf+subscribe at unworkable.org -- Harry 
> Tormey Co Founder P2P Research http://p2presearch.com Founder PyGameSF 
> http://pygamesf.org Software Engineer Digidesign http://digidesign.com 
> _______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list 
> Baypiggies at python.org To change your subscription options or 
> unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies View 
> your event at 
> http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=ZG9tZXQxMDQ0ZjYwdDVwODRvY2hzYmpjZW8gYmF5cGlnZ2llc0BweXRob24ub3Jn&tok=MTkjZ3JlZW5jcmFiQGdtYWlsLmNvbTQyYTdlZDEyMTVjNzljOTE5Mzg1ODlmNmZkZjM1NThkZWYwODY3MjA&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en 
> <http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=ZG9tZXQxMDQ0ZjYwdDVwODRvY2hzYmpjZW8gYmF5cGlnZ2llc0BweXRob24ub3Jn&tok=MTkjZ3JlZW5jcmFiQGdtYWlsLmNvbTQyYTdlZDEyMTVjNzljOTE5Mzg1ODlmNmZkZjM1NThkZWYwODY3MjA&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en>.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From nagappan at gmail.com  Thu May 14 20:29:07 2009
From: nagappan at gmail.com (Nagappan A)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:29:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announce: Linux Desktop Testing Project (LDTP) 1.6.0
	released
In-Reply-To: <9d0602eb0905102224m6da5e3abh932e9e6ff6f627a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d0602eb0905102224m6da5e3abh932e9e6ff6f627a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d0602eb0905141129g449e57am411e16d9ed25799d@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all,
  We are proud to announce the release of LDTP 1.6.0. This release features
number of important breakthroughs in LDTP as well as in the field of Test
Automation. This release note covers a brief introduction on LDTP followed
by the list of new features and major bug fixes which makes this new version
of LDTP the best of the breed. Useful references have been included at the
end of this article for those who wish to hack / use LDTP.

About LDTP:

Linux Desktop Testing Project is aimed at producing high quality test
automation framework (C / Python) and cutting-edge tools that can be used to
test Linux Desktop and improve it. It uses the Accessibility libraries to
poke through the application's user interface. The framework also has tools
to record test-cases based on user events in the interface of the
application which is under testing. We strive to help in building a quality
desktop.

Whats new in this release:

Bug fixes:

578609 - LDTP should use LOGNAME instead of (or in addition to) USER
553747 - cannot click window itself
579027 - onwindowcreate expects a _NON_ stripped window title
575120 - component should have a getrole() method (ooldtp.py)
573103 - ldtpeditor could not find glade file 'ldtpeditor.glade'
547572 - Components should be exposed in a hierarchical way

Special thanks to Willi Walker <william.walker at sun.com>, Anupa Kamath
<anupak at vmware.com>, Ara Pulido <ara at ubuntu.com>, Sandro Millien <msp
at lloedy.com>, Guofu Xu  <Guofu.Xu at access-company.com>, Szil?rd Pfeiffer
<szilard.pfeiffer at gmail.com>

New API addition:

Progress bar APIs
Layered pane APIs

Download source tarball -
http://download.freedesktop.org/ldtp/1.x/1.6.x/ldtp-1.6.0.tar.gz
Binary (openSUSE / Ubuntu / Fedora / Debian / RHEL / CentOS / Mandriva) -
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/anagappan/ (Just scheduled
in openSUSE build service, might take time to complete depending upon server
load)

Eitan Isaacson  <eitan at ascender.com> has started LDTPv2, a complete
rewrite of LDTP in python using pyatspi, soon this will be available through
ldtp.fd.o git repository. For now you can access them from
http://github.com/eeejay/ldtp2/tree/master

References:

For detailed information on LDTP framework and latest updates visit
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org

For information on various APIs in LDTP including those added for this
release can be got from http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/user-doc/index.html

To subscribe to LDTP mailing lists, visit
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org/wiki/Mailing_20list

IRC Channel - #ldtp on irc.freenode.net

Thanks
Nagappan

-- 
Linux Desktop (GUI Application) Testing Project -
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org
http://nagappanal.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090514/f3507121/attachment.htm>

From andywiggin at gmail.com  Thu May 14 23:42:02 2009
From: andywiggin at gmail.com (Andy Wiggin)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:42:02 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] OpenSource | Think Geek | Python Hacking
In-Reply-To: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
References: <370D7E94-CABF-43EC-96D5-64FB5BAD39F8@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <74e7428a0905141442h6cb95824r97a8bab159e99e98@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Okay, I'm day-dreaming with this one... but, just for a second imagine....
> Open source, *MODULAR HARDWARE*. I've always imagined cell phones to be like
> this so you modularly add whatever components you want to make a single
> device. I like the idea that this hardware is a device that you "plug in a
> "GPS device" or "camera" or whatever sensor you need. Think of a swiss-army
> knife of mobile devices like this...
> Anyhow, back to reality: Think Geek has found something awesome (not exactly
> what I dreamed about, but getting in the right ball park):
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/bdbd/
> It's completely open source (Hardware and software). Unfortunately, I don't
> know Java (and am not that interested in learning Java). But, if it's open
> source, and since this community is so dog gone bright... I bet we could
> make a Python equivalent, or use Jython if nothing else...
> Who's interested? I'm still a starving hacker, so there's no way I can
> afford this price tag. Anyone want to buy a toy like this and have a big
> play date where we all hack on it to make something cool in Jython or
> Python?
> It's a limited offer, and Think Geek's been pretty honest about this in the
> past. They probably won't carry it for long, if it isn't already sold out.
> Cheers,
>
> Glen
> --
> glen at glenjarvis.com
> http://www.glenjarvis.com
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

FYI, Linux Journal had this on the cover of the August 2008 issue. The
article is here:

  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10125

It DOES look like a pretty fun toy...

-Andy

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri May 15 01:40:03 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:40:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [ANN] Python course, SF, Jun 09;
	O'Reilly/Safari webcast, Apr 09
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580904150047l60583cc9sd9e17c12999fc4b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78b3a9580904150047l60583cc9sd9e17c12999fc4b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905141640q408378bbg63d63d26fbd8403@mail.gmail.com>

* FINAL REMINDER *

this is your 1-month heads-up for our next training course.  there are
about 10-13 spots remaining so sign up sooner than later!

- original announcement:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-April/708428.html

- more info available at:
http://cyberwebconsulting.com (click "Python Training")

- financial aid is available for those who can show they've been
laidoff and/or collecting unemployment -- contact me offlist for details

- discount for secondary and collegiate students and teachers (but not
university staff)

- multiple registration discount(s) for companies sending more than 1 person

- the class will not be cancelled so you can book your travel if
you're non-local

drop me a line if you have any questions! i'll also be at the meeting
in a few weeks so i can answer them in-person.

cheers,
-wesley


On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:47 AM, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> hey folks,
>
> i'll be offering another hardcore intro to python course again this
> summer open to the public. below is the announcement... feel free to
> share with colleagues that need to learn and/or get up-to-speed
> quickly and effectively!
>
> one additional event is listed below under "PREVIEW 2"... O'Reilly has
> asked me to deliver a 1-hour Python intro webcast a couple of weeks
> from now. if it's tough for you or any of your newbie friends and
> colleagues to afford a full course in this economy, you can at least
> get a quickie intro for FREE! more info below and at this link:
> http://www.safaribooksonline.com/events/WhatIsPython.html
>
> cheers,
> -wesley
>
>
> Need to get up-to-speed with Python as quickly as possible? Come join
> me, Wesley Chun, author of Prentice-Hall's bestseller "Core Python
> Programming," for a comprehensive intro course coming up this June in
> beautiful Northern California! Please pass on this note to whomever
> you think may be interested. I look forward to meeting you and your
> colleagues!
>
> (Comprehensive) Introduction to Python
> Mon-Wed, 2009 Jun 15-17, 9am-5pm
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> (COMPREHENSIVE) INTRODUCTION TO PYTHON
>
> Although this course may appear to those new to Python, it is also
> perfect for those who have tinkered with it and want to "fill in the
> gaps" and/or want to get more in-depth formal training. ?It combines
> the best of both an introduction to the language as well as a "Python
> Internals" training course.
>
> We will immerse you in the world of Python in only a few days, showing
> you more than just its syntax (which you don't really need a book to
> learn, right?). Knowing more about how Python works under the covers,
> including the relationship between data objects and memory management,
> will make you a much more effective Python programmer coming out of
> the gate. 3 hands-on labs each day will help hammer the concepts home.
>
> Come find out why Google, Yahoo!, Disney, ILM/LucasFilm, VMware, NASA,
> Ubuntu, YouTube, Slide, and Red Hat all use Python. Users supporting
> or jumping to Plone, Zope, TurboGears, Pylons, Django, Google App
> Engine, Jython, IronPython, and Mailman will also benefit!
>
> FREE PREVIEW 1: you will find (and can download) a video clip of a
> live lesson that was delivered recently to get an idea of the lecture
> style and interactive classroom environment at:
>
> http://cyberwebconsulting.com (click "Python Training")
>
> FREE PREVIEW 2: Partnering with O'Reilly and Pearson, Safari Books
> Online has asked me to deliver a 1-hour webcast on Wednesday morning
> 2009 Apr 29 @ 10:30a PDT/1:30p EDT called "What is
> Python?" This will be an online seminar based on a session
> that I've delivered at numerous conferences in the past. It will give
> you an idea of lecture style as well as an overview of the material
> covered in the course. Plus the first 10 registrants will receive an
> autographed copy of "Core Python Programming!" For more
> information:
>
> http://www.safaribooksonline.com/events/WhatIsPython.html
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> WHERE: near the San Francisco Airport (SFO/San Bruno), CA, USA
>
> WEB: ? http://cyberwebconsulting.com (click "Python Training")
>
> FLYER: http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/flyerPP1jun09.pdf
>
> LOCALS: easy freeway (101/280/380) with lots of parking plus public
> transit (BART and CalTrain) access via the San Bruno stations, easily
> accessible from all parts of the Bay Area
>
> VISITORS: free shuttle to/from the airport, free high-speed internet,
> free breakfast and regular evening receptions; fully-equipped suites
>
> See website for costs, venue info, and registration. ?Discounts are
> available for multiple registrations as well as for teachers/students.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From brianz at gmail.com  Fri May 15 19:53:14 2009
From: brianz at gmail.com (Brian Zambrano)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:53:14 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django gig available
Message-ID: <5db256250905151053w64a3650fpe9d44e63c3c4a7b1@mail.gmail.com>

At the last Django meetup I met Tristan Brotherton (CC'ed) who is looking
for some Django help.  The position right now is part-time and the company
is still operating on seed money, but their plan is for this position to
roll into a full-time gig once their A round of funding comes through which
is expected in August.

Their building an app for moblie devices (iPhone, initially) which allows
users to browse, interact with and discover content in a location-centric
way.  It's described much more eloquently on their site:

http://ambientindustries.com/our-big-idea.htm

If anyone is interested, email Tristan directly and mention Baypiggies:
tristan at ambientindustries.com

Further detail below.

BZ

In Tristan's words, here is a description of what's needed for their beta
which is just a few weeks away:

* A python image renderer, to take our proprietary markup language and
render a flat image for use on the web. (already written in objective C but
needs porting).
* Working with our server guy to build a scalable method of taking the user
meta-data from the server, delivered in XML and exposing it as django tags
on the web-front end, with pagination support, and potentially ajax.
(comments, card data etc).

Thats pretty much it, as I can see now.  As I said although initially its
part-time work, we are very much looking for someone who gets our concept
and is in it for the long run. Its a really good proposition for the right
person who wants to get in on an early stage startup and be able to make
their mark, so hopefully something will come of it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090515/02be932b/attachment.htm>

From jim at well.com  Sat May 16 17:16:59 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 08:16:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python retreat in cupertino may 18 to 21
Message-ID: <1242487019.6344.188.camel@jim-laptop>



Hi,

I'm teaching a fast-paced, low-pressure, Python retreat May 18-21 at
UCSC-Extension in Cupertino, only for people who know how to program in
some other language.

We'll be doing lab exercises to practice the core of Python, including
the very Pythonic decorators, generators, iterators, and context
management facilities.

University credit is given for the course.

Please send students!

Marilyn Davis

Follow this link to register:

http://pythontrainer.com




From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sun May 17 10:01:05 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:01:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] A significant achievement for PyPy
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0905170101r1b213d05q3301262459da2136@mail.gmail.com>

I've just stumbled across this
http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2009/04/4-weeks-of-gdb.html

PyPy now passes the entire Cpython test suite without crashing!

From keith at dartworks.biz  Mon May 18 07:56:03 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:56:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] python based test automation framework
In-Reply-To: <36601b010905131004m779294c3x3f9f1d2bd23164db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36601b010905112058i548b2570t50808017ed7372a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<26BBE766-897A-4783-8459-E8905908BE02@dartworks.biz>
	<36601b010905122144r4ef141c5sc9921da3cc5da386@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090513013241.522df74f@dartworks.biz>
	<36601b010905131004m779294c3x3f9f1d2bd23164db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090517225603.1db4597f@dartworks.biz>

On Wed, 13 May 2009 10:04:07 -0700
Ravi Kondamuru <ravikondamuru at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes! I can use a virtual machine.

In case anyone else is interested, a Python 2.6 developer environment
virtual machine is now available. It is based on Gentoo Linux, so it is
also a pretty good starting point for a Gentoo Linux system.

Linux 2.6.28
libc 2.9
gcc 4.3.3
Python 2.6.2
Subversion 1.6.2

Plus a whole bunch of Python packages already installed.


There are two forms, a native VMware tarball, and an OVF.

Available here:

ftp://ftp.pycopia.org/pub/python/vm/
or
http://www.pycopia.org/download/vm/

OVF path is:

http://www.pycopia.org/download/vm/pycopia-20090516/Pycopia.ovf


BTW, the files are huge so it's best to download in a place with
broadband Internet access. Home users might take 10 to 20 hours to
download.

An interesting bonus is the Linux kernel supports VMware VMI
(paravirtualization) and runs pretty fast on my system.


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From millman at berkeley.edu  Mon May 18 16:50:13 2009
From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] SciPy 2009 Call for Papers
Message-ID: <c7009a550905180750q184f02d9nbf20f5c4efa2aa15@mail.gmail.com>

==========================
SciPy 2009 Call for Papers
==========================

SciPy 2009, the 8th Python in Science conference, will be held
from August 18-23, 2009 at Caltech in Pasadena, CA, USA.

Each year SciPy attracts leading figures in research and scientific
software development with Python from a wide range of scientific and
engineering disciplines. The focus of the conference is both on scientific
libraries and tools developed with Python and on scientific or engineering
achievements using Python.

We welcome contributions from the industry as well as the academic world.
Indeed, industrial research and development as well academic research
face the challenge of mastering IT tools for exploration, modeling and
analysis.

We look forward to hearing your recent breakthroughs using Python!

Submission of Papers
====================

The program features tutorials, contributed papers, lightning talks, and
bird-of-a-feather sessions. We are soliciting talks and accompanying
papers (either formal academic or magazine-style articles) that discuss
topics which center around scientific computing using Python. These
include applications, teaching, future development directions, and
research. A collection of peer-reviewed articles will be published as
part of the proceedings.

Proposals for talks are submitted as extended abstracts. There are two
categories of talks:

 Paper presentations

     These talks are 35 minutes in duration (including questions). A one page
     abstract of no less than 500 words (excluding figures and references)
     should give an outline of the final paper. Proceeding papers are due two
     weeks after the conference, and may be in a formal academic style, or in
     a more relaxed magazine-style format.

 Rapid presentations

     These talks are 10 minutes in duration. An abstract of between
     300 and 700 words should describe the topic and motivate its
     relevance to scientific computing.

In addition, there will be an open session for lightning talks during which
any attendee willing to do so is invited to do a couple-of-minutes-long
presentation.

If you wish to present a talk at the conference, please create an account
on the website (http://conference.scipy.org). You may then submit an abstract
by logging in, clicking on your profile and following the "Submit an
abstract" link.

Submission Guidelines
---------------------

* Submissions should be uploaded via the online form.
* Submissions whose main purpose is to promote a commercial product or
  service will be refused.
* All accepted proposals must be presented at the SciPy conference by
  at least one author.
* Authors of an accepted proposal can provide a final paper for
  publication in the conference proceedings. Final papers are limited
  to 7 pages, including diagrams, figures, references, and appendices.
  The papers will be reviewed to help ensure the high-quality of the
  proceedings.

For further information, please visit the conference homepage:
http://conference.scipy.org.

Important Dates
===============

* Friday, June 26: Abstracts Due
* Saturday, July 4: Announce accepted talks, post schedule
* Friday, July 10: Early Registration ends
* Tuesday-Wednesday, August 18-19: Tutorials
* Thursday-Friday, August 20-21: Conference
* Saturday-Sunday, August 22-23: Sprints
* Friday, September 4: Papers for proceedings due

Tutorials
=========

Two days of tutorials to the scientific Python tools will precede the
conference. There will be two tracks:  one for introduction of the basic
tools to beginners and one for more advanced tools. Tutorials will be
announced later.

Birds of a Feather Sessions
===========================

If you wish to organize a birds-of-a-feather session to discuss some
specific area of scientific development with Python, please contact the
organizing committee.

Executive Committee
===================

* Jarrod Millman, UC Berkeley, USA (Conference Chair)
* Ga?l Varoquaux, INRIA Saclay, France (Program Co-Chair)
* St?fan van der Walt, University of Stellenbosch, South Africa
(Program Co-Chair)
* Fernando P?rez, UC Berkeley, USA (Tutorial Chair)

From emma at lolapps.com  Mon May 18 21:34:27 2009
From: emma at lolapps.com (Emma Donovan)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:34:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Developers - we're hiring and we hired Zachary
	Collins....
Message-ID: <001a01c9d7ef$a8c38030$6900a8c0@Olive>

Greetings - we're proud to announce that thanks to Baypiggies LOLapps met
and subsequently hired Zach Collins, an avid Baypiggies member !   However
Zach can't do it all on his own - we now need more engineers who can help us
further develop our Gift Creator and Quiz Creator applications.  This is an
exciting time for LOLapps as we're out of stealth mode, we're profitable and
we can claim 7 million daily active users.
If you are interested in exploring positions with us further or would like
more information you can contact me OR Zach at  <mailto:Zach at lolapps.com>
Zach at lolapps.com
 
We're looking forward to hearing from all you Baypiggies who are looking to
explore a new opportunity and Company.
Thanks
Emma
 
Emma Donovan
Recruiter
LOLapps Media
direct 707 824 8111
emma at lolapps.com
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090518/fcdecd4c/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed May 20 09:40:27 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:40:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905200040l3042f612rf722b641a118d0f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Meenal Pant <meenalpant at gmail.com> wrote:
> from Meenal. I am a Python developer and have recently relocated to
> Bay Area from Urbana-Champaign. I have worked in Python for the last 5
> years. In my most recent project http://sels.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ , python
> was the core language for development.
>
> As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
> applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads. ?I am looking for
> tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
> following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
> gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
> started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
>
> All advice and suggestions are appreciated,
> Thanks

Welcome!  I second Aahz on recommending Craigslist.  Also, be sure to
look at the archives for this mailing list.  There *is* work out
there.

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From ferringb at gmail.com  Wed May 20 12:02:13 2009
From: ferringb at gmail.com (Brian Harring)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 03:02:13 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com>
Message-ID: <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 09:56:05AM -0700, Aahz wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
> > 
> > As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
> > applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads.  I am looking for
> > tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
> > following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
> > gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
> > started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
> 
> Make sure you're monitoring the Jobs Board on www.python.org and keep
> looking on Craigslist.

The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python 
is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of 
"python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in 
tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is 
exempting the front end work.  The front end work is mostly utilizing 
framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc.  Not knocking it, it's 
interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more 
curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted 
backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000 
files per second".  The code that powers the architecture 
essentially.  Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging 
the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work 
I'm talking about.

So... sans the python job board, anyone got any pointers?  What I've 
mostly seen these days is positions where <=2 years of python 
suffices, or it's templating work.  I'm personally looking for 
something where knowing the intricacies and idiocies of the cpython 
vm matters (personal favorite, doing __getattr__ = getattr in 
<python-2.5).  I'm seriously not knocking the frontend work 
(templating and such), I'm just curious where folks see the sort of 
work where hacking the hell out of the django ORM to speed it up is 
the day to day work.

Might just be that the market is a bit locked up right now, but most 
of the adverts I've seen really don't fall into the category described 
above- I'd be quite interested in any pointers to boards/forums w/ 
work of the sort described above.

Thanks in advance,  Feel free to view this as a mild rant about the 
PITA nature of finding a position where they're doing interesting 
things (positive social results, say kiva.org) *and* doing 
interesting tech in the process (say metaweb/freebase, although kiva 
may fall into that classification).

Cheers-
~harring

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed May 20 14:14:45 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 05:14:45 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
Message-ID: <20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009, Brian Harring wrote:
>
> The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python 
> is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of 
> "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in 
> tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is 
> exempting the front end work.  The front end work is mostly utilizing 
> framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc.  Not knocking it, it's 
> interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more 
> curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted 
> backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000 
> files per second".  The code that powers the architecture 
> essentially.  Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging 
> the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work 
> I'm talking about.

While that's true, it's also very quick to sift through posts like that.
In addition, it can be worth checking to see if they really want
specifically UI coders; companies aren't always advertising all their
jobs.  Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
step).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

From recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com  Wed May 20 21:06:40 2009
From: recursive.cookie.jar at gmail.com (Zachary Collins)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:06:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
Message-ID: <fb19947e0905201206r44b22855u88b9405ac21a9480@mail.gmail.com>

> The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python
> is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of
> "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in
> tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is
> exempting the front end work. ?The front end work is mostly utilizing
> framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc. ?Not knocking it, it's
> interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more
> curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted
> backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000
> files per second". ?The code that powers the architecture
> essentially. ?Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging
> the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work
> I'm talking about.
>
> So... sans the python job board, anyone got any pointers? ?What I've
> mostly seen these days is positions where <=2 years of python
> suffices, or it's templating work. ?I'm personally looking for
> something where knowing the intricacies and idiocies of the cpython
> vm matters (personal favorite, doing __getattr__ = getattr in
> <python-2.5). ?I'm seriously not knocking the frontend work
> (templating and such), I'm just curious where folks see the sort of
> work where hacking the hell out of the django ORM to speed it up is
> the day to day work.
>
> Might just be that the market is a bit locked up right now, but most
> of the adverts I've seen really don't fall into the category described
> above- I'd be quite interested in any pointers to boards/forums w/
> work of the sort described above.
>
> Thanks in advance, ?Feel free to view this as a mild rant about the
> PITA nature of finding a position where they're doing interesting
> things (positive social results, say kiva.org) *and* doing
> interesting tech in the process (say metaweb/freebase, although kiva
> may fall into that classification).
>
> Cheers-
> ~harring
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

I guess one problem is that it can be difficult to convince someone
that spending that much development time on solving backend problems
makes financial sense.  Maybe I'm naive (very likely!), but aren't
those kinds of back end things solvable by using existing software in
most cases?  Or even just updating your software and sending bug
reports in for existing problems?  Dont' get me wrong!  Fun uses of
Twisted is wicked cool work and you can really work your backend
heavily, but... the truth is, once backend is developed, it's usually
quite reusable.  Reusable to a point that usually, it ends up becoming
either free/very cheap to get another codebase that already solves
what problem you are interested in.  And as far as optimization goes;
sure, but once again, optimization, financially, seems more useful to
do as you go, rather than too much pre-emptively.  You can get away
with alot of simple solutions to squeezing more out of your web
framework / python than having to hire someone on to do that full
time.

I think what I'm saying is that... atleast where I work, we often do
the backend stuff, but that's not what we're hired to do.  Actually, I
was hired to do a wide range of front end and back end work
efficiently and effectivel.   So, yes, avoid jobs that get you stuck
in /just/ doing templating front end work, but dig deeper still.
Judging too early could cause you to miss the opportunity within.
/zen

PS:  Just keep interviewing and really engage the developers when you
do so.  I love LoLApps, but it could have been easy for me to see it
as nothing more than scripts/html/js until I came in and talked with
the people.

PSPS:  Which is not to say there aren't sucky boring unengaging jobs
out there! Avoid those!  But keep it up, don't lose spirit!

From progrium at gmail.com  Wed May 20 21:13:04 2009
From: progrium at gmail.com (Jeff Lindsay)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:13:04 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
Message-ID: <ec47901a0905201213m84509d6ofcc366a87edab24@mail.gmail.com>

Ahem. NASA Ames is looking for awesome Python/Django developers. And it's
not just regular webdev... it's building scalable cloud infrastructure, a
high level app framework and components on top of Django, an integrated
development environment and much more.

NASA isn't known for having awesome/modern tech/process (agile, etc), but
our team is. Ultimately, we're trying to make NASA matter/cool again. Let me
know if any of you are interested.

-jeff

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Brian Harring <ferringb at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 09:56:05AM -0700, Aahz wrote:
> > On Thu, May 14, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
> > >
> > > As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
> > > applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads.  I am looking for
> > > tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
> > > following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
> > > gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
> > > started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
> >
> > Make sure you're monitoring the Jobs Board on www.python.org and keep
> > looking on Craigslist.
>
> The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python
> is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of
> "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in
> tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is
> exempting the front end work.  The front end work is mostly utilizing
> framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc.  Not knocking it, it's
> interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more
> curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted
> backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000
> files per second".  The code that powers the architecture
> essentially.  Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging
> the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work
> I'm talking about.
>
> So... sans the python job board, anyone got any pointers?  What I've
> mostly seen these days is positions where <=2 years of python
> suffices, or it's templating work.  I'm personally looking for
> something where knowing the intricacies and idiocies of the cpython
> vm matters (personal favorite, doing __getattr__ = getattr in
> <python-2.5).  I'm seriously not knocking the frontend work
> (templating and such), I'm just curious where folks see the sort of
> work where hacking the hell out of the django ORM to speed it up is
> the day to day work.
>
> Might just be that the market is a bit locked up right now, but most
> of the adverts I've seen really don't fall into the category described
> above- I'd be quite interested in any pointers to boards/forums w/
> work of the sort described above.
>
> Thanks in advance,  Feel free to view this as a mild rant about the
> PITA nature of finding a position where they're doing interesting
> things (positive social results, say kiva.org) *and* doing
> interesting tech in the process (say metaweb/freebase, although kiva
> may fall into that classification).
>
> Cheers-
> ~harring
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Jeff Lindsay
http://webhooks.org -- Make the web more programmable
http://shdh.org -- A party for hackers and thinkers
http://tigdb.com -- Discover indie games
http://progrium.com -- More interesting things
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090520/f25b6928/attachment-0001.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed May 20 22:22:10 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:22:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905201322w4598579fufa8f8180642afd0a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Brian Harring <ferringb at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 09:56:05AM -0700, Aahz wrote:
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
>> >
>> > As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
>> > applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads. ?I am looking for
>> > tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
>> > following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
>> > gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
>> > started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
>>
>> Make sure you're monitoring the Jobs Board on www.python.org and keep
>> looking on Craigslist.
>
> The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python
> is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of
> "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in
> tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is
> exempting the front end work. ?The front end work is mostly utilizing
> framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc. ?Not knocking it, it's
> interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more
> curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted
> backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000
> files per second". ?The code that powers the architecture
> essentially. ?Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging
> the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work
> I'm talking about.
>
> So... sans the python job board, anyone got any pointers? ?What I've
> mostly seen these days is positions where <=2 years of python
> suffices, or it's templating work. ?I'm personally looking for
> something where knowing the intricacies and idiocies of the cpython
> vm matters (personal favorite, doing __getattr__ = getattr in
> <python-2.5). ?I'm seriously not knocking the frontend work
> (templating and such), I'm just curious where folks see the sort of
> work where hacking the hell out of the django ORM to speed it up is
> the day to day work.
>
> Might just be that the market is a bit locked up right now, but most
> of the adverts I've seen really don't fall into the category described
> above- I'd be quite interested in any pointers to boards/forums w/
> work of the sort described above.
>
> Thanks in advance, ?Feel free to view this as a mild rant about the
> PITA nature of finding a position where they're doing interesting
> things (positive social results, say kiva.org) *and* doing
> interesting tech in the process (say metaweb/freebase, although kiva
> may fall into that classification).

There *are* a bunch of jobs like that out there, although I personally
prefer Eventlet and Nginx over Twisted and LigHTTPD ;)

The companies that I can think of are VMware, IronPort, Metaweb, and
Google.  Only VMware is still hiring, but Google is still open to
hiring super stars.  I also think there's a market for people who can
really own the database sharding infrastructure.

I don't think the situation is as dire as you might think, but I do
think finding a really awesome job requires patience.  As hockey fans
say, "If you skate hard, you're going to score some goals!"

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From meenalpant at gmail.com  Wed May 20 22:46:23 2009
From: meenalpant at gmail.com (Meenal Pant)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:46:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Hello friends
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905201322w4598579fufa8f8180642afd0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<c41f67b90905201322w4598579fufa8f8180642afd0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b5cbfd40905201346w2e133527k5f1a746d6b3241a4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Brian Harring <ferringb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 09:56:05AM -0700, Aahz wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009, Meenal Pant wrote:
>>> >
>>> > As many other developers I am seeking work at the moment. I am
>>> > applying for jobs but there are hardly any leads. ?I am looking for
>>> > tips and advice on the best approach to this situation. I have been
>>> > following this list for a while and sense that there are many Python
>>> > gurus out here. I am learning Django nowadays to add a skill and have
>>> > started a blog http://pythontalk.blogspot.com/ .
>>>
>>> Make sure you're monitoring the Jobs Board on www.python.org and keep
>>> looking on Craigslist.
>>
>> The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python
>> is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of
>> "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in
>> tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is
>> exempting the front end work. ?The front end work is mostly utilizing
>> framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc. ?Not knocking it, it's
>> interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more
>> curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted
>> backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000
>> files per second". ?The code that powers the architecture
>> essentially. ?Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging
>> the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work
>> I'm talking about.
>>
>> So... sans the python job board, anyone got any pointers? ?What I've
>> mostly seen these days is positions where <=2 years of python
>> suffices, or it's templating work. ?I'm personally looking for
>> something where knowing the intricacies and idiocies of the cpython
>> vm matters (personal favorite, doing __getattr__ = getattr in
>> <python-2.5). ?I'm seriously not knocking the frontend work
>> (templating and such), I'm just curious where folks see the sort of
>> work where hacking the hell out of the django ORM to speed it up is
>> the day to day work.
>>
>> Might just be that the market is a bit locked up right now, but most
>> of the adverts I've seen really don't fall into the category described
>> above- I'd be quite interested in any pointers to boards/forums w/
>> work of the sort described above.
>>
>> Thanks in advance, ?Feel free to view this as a mild rant about the
>> PITA nature of finding a position where they're doing interesting
>> things (positive social results, say kiva.org) *and* doing
>> interesting tech in the process (say metaweb/freebase, although kiva
>> may fall into that classification).
>
> There *are* a bunch of jobs like that out there, although I personally
> prefer Eventlet and Nginx over Twisted and LigHTTPD ;)
>
> The companies that I can think of are VMware, IronPort, Metaweb, and
> Google. ?Only VMware is still hiring, but Google is still open to
> hiring super stars. ?I also think there's a market for people who can
> really own the database sharding infrastructure.
>
> I don't think the situation is as dire as you might think, but I do
> think finding a really awesome job requires patience. ?As hockey fans
> say, "If you skate hard, you're going to score some goals!"
>
> -jj
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
This is interesting.
So where are the boring jobs :) ? I am not a rockstar coder but I am
learning and hoping to be one.
What is a typical python job people look for or work at in Baypiggies?
 Webdev, QA, ...?
I am trying to understand what job description will I fit in with my
current skills?
Meenal

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Thu May 21 01:17:56 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:17:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>

 <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote: "companies aren't always advertising all
their
jobs.  Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
step)."

Aahz, you are absolutely correct with this.  Many companies don't advertise
some/all/any of their available jobs.  This due to various reasons including
startups in "stealth mode" who don't want to widely publicize their
existence except through very targeted solicitations, or smaller companies
who don't have an internal HR or Recruiting team and who leave it up to
their very busy managers to get  job descriptions written and posted on the
careers site, or even larger companies that are constantly hiring the same
skill sets and so keep cycling the same job descriptions regardless or
whether or not the jobs are actually "active"... to name just a few reasons
jobs aren't always publicized or kept up to date.

So I am a recruiter (who has connected with and established relationships
with a few members here at BayPiggies) and I've adhered to the guidlines of
not posting any jobs here without first discussing with the moderator (which
I haven't even done to date mostly because I haven't thought of this forum
as a job marketing tool) and of course I wouldn't dream of posting unless I
was directly representing the company:-)... So in the spirit of community I
would like to suggest that perhaps we start a discussion thread where we
help fellow members of this forum who are actively researching new job
opportunities by providing information/intelligence/insight/etc. about any
Bay Area companies who widely use Python and who we know are hiring or who
have been hiring python developers.

If what Ive suggested is amenable to the Moderator and if it hasn't already
been done, then I would be happy to start the thread by providing the names
of 2-3 companies who I know are hiring or who have recently been hiring
python engineers, including a brief overview of the company and also the
best course of contact at the company for any interested parties.   It's a
tight market out there, let's embrace the spirit of community, and share
information that may more readily benefit someone else.   C'mon recruiters
too!  Karma isn't just a bunch of hooey.

Moderator? It's your call.  Assuming you give the go-ahead, I'll suggest the
following format:

-Company Name
-website if any
-location
-Brief overview of the company or as much info as can be divulged if it's in
"stealth"
-Known relevant jobs
-Best suggested contact (please only provide specific contact details if you
have that person's expressed consent to post his/her info, otherwise point
to generic job seekers email contact)

Cheers,
Elan

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 20, 2009, Brian Harring wrote:
> >
> > The problem I've always had with CL is that the mentioning of python
> > is basically defacto for HR folk- you wind up seeing quite a bit of
> > "python would be great" for SA jobs that are mostly uninteresting in
> > tech, scripting rather then actual development- this of course is
> > exempting the front end work.  The front end work is mostly utilizing
> > framework xyz to do JS/CSS/HTML abc.  Not knocking it, it's
> > interesting work if you like the frontend. I'm personally more
> > curious where folks are finding the true backend work, the "twisted
> > backend that interfaces with the media store to serve out 100-1000
> > files per second".  The code that powers the architecture
> > essentially.  Best description I can offer, if it involves debugging
> > the lighttpd state machine (nasty piece, that), it's the sort of work
> > I'm talking about.
>
> While that's true, it's also very quick to sift through posts like that.
> In addition, it can be worth checking to see if they really want
> specifically UI coders; companies aren't always advertising all their
> jobs.  Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
> Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
> advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
> step).
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
> statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090520/c6836941/attachment-0001.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May 21 02:42:07 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:42:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote: "companies aren't always advertising all their
> jobs. ?Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
> Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
> advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
> step)."
>
> Aahz, you are absolutely correct with this.? Many companies don't advertise
> some/all/any of their available jobs.? This due to various reasons including
> startups in "stealth mode" who don't want to widely publicize their
> existence except through very targeted solicitations, or smaller companies
> who don't have an internal HR or Recruiting team and who leave it up to
> their very busy managers to get? job descriptions written and posted on the
> careers site, or even larger companies that are constantly hiring the same
> skill sets and so keep cycling the same job descriptions regardless or
> whether or not the jobs are actually "active"... to name just a few reasons
> jobs aren't always publicized or kept up to date.
>
> So I am a recruiter (who has connected with and established relationships
> with a few members here at BayPiggies) and I've adhered to the guidlines of
> not posting any jobs here without first discussing with the moderator (which
> I haven't even done to date mostly because I haven't thought of this forum
> as a job marketing tool) and of course I wouldn't dream of posting unless I
> was directly representing the company:-)... So in the spirit of community I
> would like to suggest that perhaps we start a discussion thread where we
> help fellow members of this forum who are actively researching new job
> opportunities by providing information/intelligence/insight/etc. about any
> Bay Area companies who widely use Python and who we know are hiring or who
> have been hiring python developers.
>
> If what Ive suggested is amenable to the Moderator and if it hasn't already
> been done, then I would be happy to start the thread by providing the names
> of 2-3 companies who I know are hiring or who have recently been hiring
> python engineers, including a brief overview of the company and also the
> best course of contact at the company for any interested parties.?? It's a
> tight market out there, let's embrace the spirit of community, and share
> information that may more readily benefit someone else.?? C'mon recruiters
> too!? Karma isn't just a bunch of hooey.
>
> Moderator? It's your call.? Assuming you give the go-ahead, I'll suggest the
> following format:
>
> -Company Name
> -website if any
> -location
> -Brief overview of the company or as much info as can be divulged if it's in
> "stealth"
> -Known relevant jobs
> -Best suggested contact (please only provide specific contact details if you
> have that person's expressed consent to post his/her info, otherwise point
> to generic job seekers email contact)
>
> Cheers,
> Elan

Elan, thanks for following the rules.

<moderator hat on>
Ok, I know that a lot of people are struggling to find work, so I'm
going to make a one time exception.

 * Recruiters may reply to this thread (note, that "[RECRUITER]" is in
the subject).  Recruiters may *not* post job listings that are out of
the area unless telecommuting is an option.  I'm sure there are other
ways in which this allowance can be abused--please don't.

 * People looking for work can write a short email describing what
they are looking for along with a link to their resume.

This is not a permanent change to our policies.  Rather, this is a
short window in order to serve our members.  After all, this list
exists to serve its members--specifically the ones who code in Python
;)

If it gets out of hand, I reserve the right to ask everyone to stop the thread.

I'm sorry to be so draconian, but if I don't enforce the rules to the
best of my ability, I'll get an earful from the other members ;)

If you have any complaints: a) I suggest you setup an email filter to
filter out these messages b) send me email with complaints privately.
</moderator hat on>

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Thu May 21 03:44:26 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:44:26 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.

BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not just
recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
(definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not getting
a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads or
contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong client
relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have to
include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone chips in to
do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.

So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately but
I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm that
they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.  I
also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post but
need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before me, do
the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
seekers in this community.

Cheers!
Elan


On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote: "companies aren't always advertising all
> their
> > jobs.  Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
> > Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
> > advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
> > step)."
> >
> > Aahz, you are absolutely correct with this.  Many companies don't
> advertise
> > some/all/any of their available jobs.  This due to various reasons
> including
> > startups in "stealth mode" who don't want to widely publicize their
> > existence except through very targeted solicitations, or smaller
> companies
> > who don't have an internal HR or Recruiting team and who leave it up to
> > their very busy managers to get  job descriptions written and posted on
> the
> > careers site, or even larger companies that are constantly hiring the
> same
> > skill sets and so keep cycling the same job descriptions regardless or
> > whether or not the jobs are actually "active"... to name just a few
> reasons
> > jobs aren't always publicized or kept up to date.
> >
> > So I am a recruiter (who has connected with and established relationships
> > with a few members here at BayPiggies) and I've adhered to the guidlines
> of
> > not posting any jobs here without first discussing with the moderator
> (which
> > I haven't even done to date mostly because I haven't thought of this
> forum
> > as a job marketing tool) and of course I wouldn't dream of posting unless
> I
> > was directly representing the company:-)... So in the spirit of community
> I
> > would like to suggest that perhaps we start a discussion thread where we
> > help fellow members of this forum who are actively researching new job
> > opportunities by providing information/intelligence/insight/etc. about
> any
> > Bay Area companies who widely use Python and who we know are hiring or
> who
> > have been hiring python developers.
> >
> > If what Ive suggested is amenable to the Moderator and if it hasn't
> already
> > been done, then I would be happy to start the thread by providing the
> names
> > of 2-3 companies who I know are hiring or who have recently been hiring
> > python engineers, including a brief overview of the company and also the
> > best course of contact at the company for any interested parties.   It's
> a
> > tight market out there, let's embrace the spirit of community, and share
> > information that may more readily benefit someone else.   C'mon
> recruiters
> > too!  Karma isn't just a bunch of hooey.
> >
> > Moderator? It's your call.  Assuming you give the go-ahead, I'll suggest
> the
> > following format:
> >
> > -Company Name
> > -website if any
> > -location
> > -Brief overview of the company or as much info as can be divulged if it's
> in
> > "stealth"
> > -Known relevant jobs
> > -Best suggested contact (please only provide specific contact details if
> you
> > have that person's expressed consent to post his/her info, otherwise
> point
> > to generic job seekers email contact)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Elan
>
> Elan, thanks for following the rules.
>
> <moderator hat on>
> Ok, I know that a lot of people are struggling to find work, so I'm
> going to make a one time exception.
>
>  * Recruiters may reply to this thread (note, that "[RECRUITER]" is in
> the subject).  Recruiters may *not* post job listings that are out of
> the area unless telecommuting is an option.  I'm sure there are other
> ways in which this allowance can be abused--please don't.
>
>  * People looking for work can write a short email describing what
> they are looking for along with a link to their resume.
>
> This is not a permanent change to our policies.  Rather, this is a
> short window in order to serve our members.  After all, this list
> exists to serve its members--specifically the ones who code in Python
> ;)
>
> If it gets out of hand, I reserve the right to ask everyone to stop the
> thread.
>
> I'm sorry to be so draconian, but if I don't enforce the rules to the
> best of my ability, I'll get an earful from the other members ;)
>
> If you have any complaints: a) I suggest you setup an email filter to
> filter out these messages b) send me email with complaints privately.
> </moderator hat on>
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090520/c9bccf22/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May 21 06:01:35 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:01:35 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905202101qf82b7c0q7440a490ae8576bd@mail.gmail.com>

Aahz suggested that people who wish to post their resume to the list
put [RESUME] in the subject line.  Sounds fine to me.

Best Regards,
-jj

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote: "companies aren't always advertising all their
>> jobs. ?Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
>> Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
>> advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
>> step)."
>>
>> Aahz, you are absolutely correct with this.? Many companies don't advertise
>> some/all/any of their available jobs.? This due to various reasons including
>> startups in "stealth mode" who don't want to widely publicize their
>> existence except through very targeted solicitations, or smaller companies
>> who don't have an internal HR or Recruiting team and who leave it up to
>> their very busy managers to get? job descriptions written and posted on the
>> careers site, or even larger companies that are constantly hiring the same
>> skill sets and so keep cycling the same job descriptions regardless or
>> whether or not the jobs are actually "active"... to name just a few reasons
>> jobs aren't always publicized or kept up to date.
>>
>> So I am a recruiter (who has connected with and established relationships
>> with a few members here at BayPiggies) and I've adhered to the guidlines of
>> not posting any jobs here without first discussing with the moderator (which
>> I haven't even done to date mostly because I haven't thought of this forum
>> as a job marketing tool) and of course I wouldn't dream of posting unless I
>> was directly representing the company:-)... So in the spirit of community I
>> would like to suggest that perhaps we start a discussion thread where we
>> help fellow members of this forum who are actively researching new job
>> opportunities by providing information/intelligence/insight/etc. about any
>> Bay Area companies who widely use Python and who we know are hiring or who
>> have been hiring python developers.
>>
>> If what Ive suggested is amenable to the Moderator and if it hasn't already
>> been done, then I would be happy to start the thread by providing the names
>> of 2-3 companies who I know are hiring or who have recently been hiring
>> python engineers, including a brief overview of the company and also the
>> best course of contact at the company for any interested parties.?? It's a
>> tight market out there, let's embrace the spirit of community, and share
>> information that may more readily benefit someone else.?? C'mon recruiters
>> too!? Karma isn't just a bunch of hooey.
>>
>> Moderator? It's your call.? Assuming you give the go-ahead, I'll suggest the
>> following format:
>>
>> -Company Name
>> -website if any
>> -location
>> -Brief overview of the company or as much info as can be divulged if it's in
>> "stealth"
>> -Known relevant jobs
>> -Best suggested contact (please only provide specific contact details if you
>> have that person's expressed consent to post his/her info, otherwise point
>> to generic job seekers email contact)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Elan
>
> Elan, thanks for following the rules.
>
> <moderator hat on>
> Ok, I know that a lot of people are struggling to find work, so I'm
> going to make a one time exception.
>
> ?* Recruiters may reply to this thread (note, that "[RECRUITER]" is in
> the subject). ?Recruiters may *not* post job listings that are out of
> the area unless telecommuting is an option. ?I'm sure there are other
> ways in which this allowance can be abused--please don't.
>
> ?* People looking for work can write a short email describing what
> they are looking for along with a link to their resume.
>
> This is not a permanent change to our policies. ?Rather, this is a
> short window in order to serve our members. ?After all, this list
> exists to serve its members--specifically the ones who code in Python
> ;)
>
> If it gets out of hand, I reserve the right to ask everyone to stop the thread.
>
> I'm sorry to be so draconian, but if I don't enforce the rules to the
> best of my ability, I'll get an earful from the other members ;)
>
> If you have any complaints: a) I suggest you setup an email filter to
> filter out these messages b) send me email with complaints privately.
> </moderator hat on>
>
> Best Regards,
> -jj
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>



-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May 21 06:09:36 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:09:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!? I think this can work.
>
> BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not just
> recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
> (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not getting
> a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads or
> contacts.? My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong client
> relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have to
> include any clients you are currently working with.? If everyone chips in to
> do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
>
> So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately but
> I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.? I have a couple of
> stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm that
> they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
> preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.? I
> also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post but
> need to confirm the same info.? Please, to those who may post before me, do
> the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
> seekers in this community.

I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
to know:

a) What technologies does the company use?
b) Where are they located?
c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
d) What positions are they hiring for?

After knowing those things, I'll want to know:

e) Is this a sweatshop?
f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?  clueless?)?

My $0.02,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Thu May 21 10:21:54 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:21:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: Keas (S.F.)
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905210121g62579159ub7fb78900bd79a25@mail.gmail.com>

Company: Keas, (www.keas.com)
Location: HQ in Downtown S.F.  (1st St. btw Mission and Market)

Keas is an early stage consumer health start-up that is still in
"stealth"/has not publicly launched.  They do have a private beta out.  The
company was founded by Adam Bosworth and George Kassabgi in 2008.  George is
a longtime entrepreneur and (among other accomplishments) was a key person
over at BEA.  Adam is the engineering pioneer who authored XML and (among
other accomplishments) developed Google Calendar and MS Access. Most
recently Adam built Google <http://www.google.com/> Health before leaving to
start Keas.  Candidates who are selected by Keas for interview will be asked
to sign an NDA after which more about the company will be divulged.  For now
one can gleen some info about Keas on Keas.com and Adam's blog:
http://adambosworth.net/2007/12/22/talking-about-keas/

Technologies used include Python with a Zope framework (Zope may have since
been replaced with Django or TurboGears/Pylons in the past few months but I
can't confirm this right now) , and in an agile (scrum) test-driven
iterative environment.  AJAX, mySQL, memcached, etc.

The Opportunity: In brief, engineers will be building a health 2.0 consumer
facing website, and designing software solutions for hard infomatics and
data analysis problems.  The company is always on the lookout for
experienced individual contributors who have deep experience with Java or
Python, have solid problem solving skills and who like to learn new
technologies and pick up new programming languages quickly.  Smart,
"young-ish"/or young at heart, entrepreneurial co-workers, who tend to have
strong C.S. fundamentals, and solid work experience building high volume,
high transaction, highly available consumer web applications.  Very
accessible hands on leadership.

Interviews: A three step process.  Recruiter screening, Manager phone
technical screening, On-site interviews.  You may also be asked to provide
code samples. They have a very rigorous on-site interview process (which is
long - all day) that Adam imported from Google (which I'm not knowledgeable
about.) It's an all day affair, long and comprehensive.  If you are invited
to interview and can't commit to a full day of interviews you can always
break it up into two days.

Compensation: Competitive salaries and in the middle to upper range compared
to other startups and still offering good equity on top of salary.  Be clear
from the beginning whether you value more salary or more equity.  They do
not like to go back and forth on offers.  This company is very fair when it
comes to compensation.

Contacts: I cannot give out contact info of hiring managers or founders.
There is a competent in-house recruiter, you can find his info on linkedin,
his name is Ricky Fiel.  Ricky is diligent and responsive but does not have
a great deal of experience and so may not be the best assesor of technical
skill and talent and will most likely rely heavily on a his managers for
resume feedback.   His email is: ricky.fiel at keas.com.  If you would like his
phone number, ask me in an email.

(note: if you are interested in this company and would like to ask questions
I'm happy to chat and provide as much info and help as I can.  I am also
happy to make a direct introduction to the founders if that is your
preference vs. connecting with the in-house recruiter as your first point of
contact.)

***** wow I may have gone overboard with the details here....  my next
posting will not be quite as long.... the next company from me will be
posted sometime on Thursday*****




On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.
> >
> > BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not just
> > recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
> > (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not
> getting
> > a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads or
> > contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong client
> > relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have to
> > include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone chips in
> to
> > do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
> >
> > So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately
> but
> > I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
> > stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm that
> > they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
> > preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.
> I
> > also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post but
> > need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before me,
> do
> > the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
> > seekers in this community.
>
> I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
> don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
> Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
> to know:
>
> a) What technologies does the company use?
> b) Where are they located?
> c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
> d) What positions are they hiring for?
>
> After knowing those things, I'll want to know:
>
> e) Is this a sweatshop?
> f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?
>  clueless?)?
>
> My $0.02,
> -jj
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/3fa30a20/attachment.htm>

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Thu May 21 21:21:58 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:21:58 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company #2 coming up
	this early evening....
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905211221k4687352cnfc64e7821f652a77@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks... I'll be posting details for another S.F. based co. later today
and then afterwards will do my best to post at least 1 new  opportunity a
week...

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:

> Company: Keas, (www.keas.com)
> Location: HQ in Downtown S.F.  (1st St. btw Mission and Market)
>
> Keas is an early stage consumer health start-up that is still in
> "stealth"/has not publicly launched.  They do have a private beta out.  The
> company was founded by Adam Bosworth and George Kassabgi in 2008.  George is
> a longtime entrepreneur and (among other accomplishments) was a key person
> over at BEA.  Adam is the engineering pioneer who authored XML and (among
> other accomplishments) developed Google Calendar and MS Access. Most
> recently Adam built Google <http://www.google.com/> Health before leaving
> to start Keas.  Candidates who are selected by Keas for interview will be
> asked to sign an NDA after which more about the company will be divulged.
> For now one can gleen some info about Keas on Keas.com and Adam's blog:
> http://adambosworth.net/2007/12/22/talking-about-keas/
>
> Technologies used include Python with a Zope framework (Zope may have since
> been replaced with Django or TurboGears/Pylons in the past few months but I
> can't confirm this right now) , and in an agile (scrum) test-driven
> iterative environment.  AJAX, mySQL, memcached, etc.
>
> The Opportunity: In brief, engineers will be building a health 2.0 consumer
> facing website, and designing software solutions for hard infomatics and
> data analysis problems.  The company is always on the lookout for
> experienced individual contributors who have deep experience with Java or
> Python, have solid problem solving skills and who like to learn new
> technologies and pick up new programming languages quickly.  Smart,
> "young-ish"/or young at heart, entrepreneurial co-workers, who tend to have
> strong C.S. fundamentals, and solid work experience building high volume,
> high transaction, highly available consumer web applications.  Very
> accessible hands on leadership.
>
> Interviews: A three step process.  Recruiter screening, Manager phone
> technical screening, On-site interviews.  You may also be asked to provide
> code samples. They have a very rigorous on-site interview process (which is
> long - all day) that Adam imported from Google (which I'm not knowledgeable
> about.) It's an all day affair, long and comprehensive.  If you are invited
> to interview and can't commit to a full day of interviews you can always
> break it up into two days.
>
> Compensation: Competitive salaries and in the middle to upper range
> compared to other startups and still offering good equity on top of salary.
> Be clear from the beginning whether you value more salary or more equity.
> They do not like to go back and forth on offers.  This company is very fair
> when it comes to compensation.
>
> Contacts: I cannot give out contact info of hiring managers or founders.
> There is a competent in-house recruiter, you can find his info on linkedin,
> his name is Ricky Fiel.  Ricky is diligent and responsive but does not have
> a great deal of experience and so may not be the best assesor of technical
> skill and talent and will most likely rely heavily on a his managers for
> resume feedback.   His email is: ricky.fiel at keas.com.  If you would like
> his phone number, ask me in an email.
>
> (note: if you are interested in this company and would like to ask
> questions I'm happy to chat and provide as much info and help as I can.  I
> am also happy to make a direct introduction to the founders if that is your
> preference vs. connecting with the in-house recruiter as your first point of
> contact.)
>
> ***** wow I may have gone overboard with the details here....  my next
> posting will not be quite as long.... the next company from me will be
> posted sometime on Thursday*****
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.
>> >
>> > BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not just
>> > recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
>> > (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not
>> getting
>> > a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads
>> or
>> > contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong client
>> > relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have to
>> > include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone chips
>> in to
>> > do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
>> >
>> > So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately
>> but
>> > I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
>> > stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm that
>> > they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
>> > preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.
>> I
>> > also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post
>> but
>> > need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before me,
>> do
>> > the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
>> > seekers in this community.
>>
>> I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
>> don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
>> Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
>> to know:
>>
>> a) What technologies does the company use?
>> b) Where are they located?
>> c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
>> d) What positions are they hiring for?
>>
>> After knowing those things, I'll want to know:
>>
>> e) Is this a sweatshop?
>> f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?
>>  clueless?)?
>>
>> My $0.02,
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
>> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/80fcdeae/attachment.htm>

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Thu May 21 22:30:59 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:30:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: 23andMe
	(Mountain View)
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905211330p5fd6596ft8a4c71978d1f5ad0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks, the spirit of this whole endeavor is just starting to catch on.
It's exciting to see...

I just received information about an opportunity in Mountain View with a
very cool company.   This posting comes straight from the Director of People
at 23andMe, Oliver Ryan.  I do not know Oliver personally but I've heard
some very good things about the company, the work environment and
specifically the (engineering) team.  Oliver's email is included below.  I
have not listed his phone number, so please email him directly with any of
your questions/requests, etc.

Company: 23andMe, (www.23andme.com)
Location: Mountain View

23andMe, Inc. is a privately-held company located in Mountain View, CA
dedicated to helping individuals understand their own genetic information
using recent advances in DNA analysis technologies and web-based interactive
tools. 23andMe enables individuals to gain deeper insights into personal
ancestry, genealogy and inherited traits. 23andMe was founded in April 2006
by Linda Avey and Anne Wojcicki. Investors include Genentech, Google and
NEA.

We launched our service in November 2007 and have a relatively small (less
than 15) team of engineers currently. A lot of people make the mistake of
thinking we are a biotech or pharma company, when we are absolutely a
consumer web play, the subject matter happens to be Genetics. Engineers do
NOT need any experience with Biology/Genetics.

Website is www.23andme.com, jobs are at https://www.23andme.com/about/jobs/

Technologies include Linux, Apache, MySQL and Python with some C++ mixed in.
Experience with front-end technologies (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) also a plus.
There are opportunities to work across the entire stack, or stay focused on
front/back end work.

Interviews: Three step process, initial screening by recruiting team, phone
interview by head of engineering, then in person interviews with a group of
5-6 engineers.

Salary/stock is competitive.

We are hiring for multiple engineering positions, including
SW Engineer
UI Engineer
SW Engineer, Test
SW Engineer, Science (while the above 3 positions focus on front/back-end of
the website, this person would work more on building some of the internal
tools we're using to conduct genetic association studies)

Best point of contact: Oliver Ryan, Director of People.  oliver at 23andme.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/a5ee8ab8/attachment.htm>

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Fri May 22 00:06:40 2009
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 15:06:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: Keas (S.F.)
In-Reply-To: <8c82d77b0905210121g62579159ub7fb78900bd79a25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905210121g62579159ub7fb78900bd79a25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.uuavpd2noiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

I haven't follow the thread closely. But, wow, this is a very high quality  
job posting. I don't mind seeing more of these in mailing list.

I've checked Adam Bosworth's post in 2007. He was talking about looking  
for people to work using Java or PHP or RubyOnRails. I guess he has  
changed his mind since then :)


Wai yip



> Company: Keas, (www.keas.com)
> Location: HQ in Downtown S.F.  (1st St. btw Mission and Market)
>
> Keas is an early stage consumer health start-up that is still in
> "stealth"/has not publicly launched.  They do have a private beta out.   
> The
> company was founded by Adam Bosworth and George Kassabgi in 2008.   
> George is
> a longtime entrepreneur and (among other accomplishments) was a key  
> person
> over at BEA.  Adam is the engineering pioneer who authored XML and (among
> other accomplishments) developed Google Calendar and MS Access. Most
> recently Adam built Google <http://www.google.com/> Health before  
> leaving to
> start Keas.  Candidates who are selected by Keas for interview will be  
> asked
> to sign an NDA after which more about the company will be divulged.  For  
> now
> one can gleen some info about Keas on Keas.com and Adam's blog:
> http://adambosworth.net/2007/12/22/talking-about-keas/
>
> Technologies used include Python with a Zope framework (Zope may have  
> since
> been replaced with Django or TurboGears/Pylons in the past few months  
> but I
> can't confirm this right now) , and in an agile (scrum) test-driven
> iterative environment.  AJAX, mySQL, memcached, etc.
>
> The Opportunity: In brief, engineers will be building a health 2.0  
> consumer
> facing website, and designing software solutions for hard infomatics and
> data analysis problems.  The company is always on the lookout for
> experienced individual contributors who have deep experience with Java or
> Python, have solid problem solving skills and who like to learn new
> technologies and pick up new programming languages quickly.  Smart,
> "young-ish"/or young at heart, entrepreneurial co-workers, who tend to  
> have
> strong C.S. fundamentals, and solid work experience building high volume,
> high transaction, highly available consumer web applications.  Very
> accessible hands on leadership.
>
> Interviews: A three step process.  Recruiter screening, Manager phone
> technical screening, On-site interviews.  You may also be asked to  
> provide
> code samples. They have a very rigorous on-site interview process (which  
> is
> long - all day) that Adam imported from Google (which I'm not  
> knowledgeable
> about.) It's an all day affair, long and comprehensive.  If you are  
> invited
> to interview and can't commit to a full day of interviews you can always
> break it up into two days.
>
> Compensation: Competitive salaries and in the middle to upper range  
> compared
> to other startups and still offering good equity on top of salary.  Be  
> clear
> from the beginning whether you value more salary or more equity.  They do
> not like to go back and forth on offers.  This company is very fair when  
> it
> comes to compensation.
>
> Contacts: I cannot give out contact info of hiring managers or founders.
> There is a competent in-house recruiter, you can find his info on  
> linkedin,
> his name is Ricky Fiel.  Ricky is diligent and responsive but does not  
> have
> a great deal of experience and so may not be the best assesor of  
> technical
> skill and talent and will most likely rely heavily on a his managers for
> resume feedback.   His email is: ricky.fiel at keas.com.  If you would like  
> his
> phone number, ask me in an email.
>
> (note: if you are interested in this company and would like to ask  
> questions
> I'm happy to chat and provide as much info and help as I can.  I am also
> happy to make a direct introduction to the founders if that is your
> preference vs. connecting with the in-house recruiter as your first  
> point of
> contact.)
>
> ***** wow I may have gone overboard with the details here....  my next
> posting will not be quite as long.... the next company from me will be
> posted sometime on Thursday*****
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens  
> <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.
>> >
>> > BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not  
>> just
>> > recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based  
>> recruiters
>> > (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not
>> getting
>> > a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing"  
>> leads or
>> > contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong  
>> client
>> > relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have  
>> to
>> > include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone  
>> chips in
>> to
>> > do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
>> >
>> > So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off  
>> immediately
>> but
>> > I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
>> > stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm  
>> that
>> > they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
>> > preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the  
>> companies.
>> I
>> > also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post  
>> but
>> > need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before  
>> me,
>> do
>> > the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the  
>> job
>> > seekers in this community.
>>
>> I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
>> don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
>> Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
>> to know:
>>
>> a) What technologies does the company use?
>> b) Where are they located?
>> c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
>> d) What positions are they hiring for?
>>
>> After knowing those things, I'll want to know:
>>
>> e) Is this a sweatshop?
>> f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?
>>  clueless?)?
>>
>> My $0.02,
>> -jj
>>
>> --
>> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
>> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
>> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From avner at boxee.tv  Fri May 22 01:54:23 2009
From: avner at boxee.tv (avner ronen)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:54:23 -0400
Subject: [Baypiggies] boxee's Python-based Dev Challenge
Message-ID: <f2586d5f0905211654ta4a3e24g26eedbc41ca27010@mail.gmail.com>

we launched a Python-based API for boxee, and to help promote it we
announced a Dev Challenge with Sony Bravia XBR9 46? and Drobo with 4TB of
storage as prizes.

you can learn more here http://blog.boxee.tv/

avner ronen
http://twitter.com/boxee
http://blog.boxee.tv
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/1c55651d/attachment.htm>

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri May 22 02:09:05 2009
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:09:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company:
	23andMe	(Mountain View)
In-Reply-To: <8c82d77b0905211330p5fd6596ft8a4c71978d1f5ad0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905211330p5fd6596ft8a4c71978d1f5ad0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W91A86257985460A4F6E74A0560@phx.gbl>



_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009

From jim at well.com  Fri May 22 02:48:46 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:48:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for PyCon recaps
In-Reply-To: <fbf2758a0904271005i61f97531k770964fdcf0927bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1240677368.16396.118.camel@jim-laptop>
	<fbf2758a0904271005i61f97531k770964fdcf0927bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1242953326.21237.42.camel@jim-laptop>


you're signed up for may 28. what'll you 
recap? 
jim 
415 823 4590 my cellphone, call anytime 

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 10:05 -0700, Daryl Spitzer wrote:
> Sign me up for a recap (if you haven't already).
> 
> --
> Daryl
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:36 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >
> >   If you went to PyCon this year, it will be
> > helpful to get your sense of the event or some
> > notable session.
> >   "PyCon Recaps" is the theme for our May 28
> > meeting. A recap might be as brief as three or
> > four minutes in the case of pointing out a
> > speaker, session, or technical feature along
> > with a link. A recap probably will be best if
> > it's under fifteen minutes (if you've got a
> > topic that deserves a longer time, consider
> > giving it as a featured talk later this year).
> > My guess is that seven to ten minutes is near
> > ideal for a recap.
> >   Please reply to the list if you can give
> > a PyCon recap on May 28.
> > with thanks,
> > jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
> 


From jim at well.com  Fri May 22 02:50:23 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:50:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for PyCon recaps
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580904272048o7701d738w9b8d40e6745b5fb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1240677368.16396.118.camel@jim-laptop>
	<fbf2758a0904271005i61f97531k770964fdcf0927bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<78b3a9580904272048o7701d738w9b8d40e6745b5fb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1242953423.21237.44.camel@jim-laptop>


   so far it's you and daryl for may 28. 
i've got a possible third personage and 
will let you know if he'll be recapping. 


On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 20:48 -0700, wesley chun wrote:
> >>   Please reply to the list if you can give
> >> a PyCon recap on May 28.
> >> with thanks,
> >> jim
> 
> 
> i'll repeat pretty much what i said last week for the record (and the
> current Subject line).
> 
> 
> >>   and here's a call for pycon recaps for our may 28 meeting.
> >
> > i can reprise the following 3 that i also did for the SF Meetup [earlier] this month:
> >
> > 1. PyCon 2009 conference overview
> > 2. Lack of Design Patterns
> > 3. Class Decorators
> >
> > i'll take about 5-6mins for each review.
> 
> 
> the only new news is that daryl will (hopefully) help me with #2 and
> #3. my overall recommendation if multiple ppl want to recap the same
> talk like we are, is that it's best to put everyone together when
> talking about the same session so all can compare, contrast, etc., so
> that the audience can really get a feel for what attendees saw, heard,
> and thought. i liken it to winetasting.
> 
> cheers,
> -- wesley
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
> "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
>    http://corepython.com
> 
> wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
> python training and technical consulting
> cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
> http://cyberwebconsulting.com
> 


From matt at matt-good.net  Fri May 22 03:49:23 2009
From: matt at matt-good.net (Matt Good)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 18:49:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Web Developer Opportunity at ChoiceVendor
Message-ID: <1154D078-4F82-4BAF-8BB4-B7888D2F696E@matt-good.net>

My company is looking for another Python developer.  The full listing  
is below, but first here is some additional info about us based on  
JJ's recent suggestions from the recruiting thread:

Location: downtown San Francisco, right by BART & MUNI

Technologies:
Python 2.5
MySQL
SQLAlchemy
Jinja2
Git
Nose
Doctest
WebTest
Reitveld
Development:
We don't follow strict capital-A "Agile" development, but we keep  
things light-weight and use unit/functional tests and code reviews to  
maintain a high level of quality.


We are a small, venture-backed startup in San Francisco looking for a  
great Python developer to round out our small team.

At ChoiceVendor, you'll create robust, high-quality web applications  
with a strong emphasis on rapidly building components to meet the  
needs of our customers. You're well-rounded and experienced in the  
full application development lifecycle, and you're capable of  
designing, implementing, and delivering major functionality. You are  
also comfortable deploying and maintaining production systems. Above  
all, you are self-motivated, self-directed, and have a keen intuition  
into what it takes to design and build a successful product.

Responsibilities:
Design, build and manage a web application for small business users
Influence the product design and feature set of the end-user-facing  
web application
Implement business-critical internal applications
Requirements:

BA or BS degree in Computer Science or a related technical degree (MS  
degree a plus)
Strong fundamental background in computer science
At least 3 years of web development experience in a rapid-development  
environment (Python strongly preferred)
Experience with database schema design, SQL and object relational  
mapping
Working knowledge of Internet protocols, networks, HTML, TCP/IP,  
JavaScript, CSS, and shell scripting
Significant development experience in a Linux environment a plus
What we'll ask to see:

A current resume.
Code samples, if possible. If you've worked on open source projects,  
send us a URL; if you can email us samples from other work that you've  
done, or have an online portfolio, that's great too.
References. We'll only check these a ways into the process, but have  
'em ready.
If you are interested, please reply directly with your resume or  
contact jobs at choicevendor.com.

Thanks!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/858c7b67/attachment.htm>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 22 03:51:23 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 18:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RESUME] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090522015123.GA22818@panix.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2009, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
>
>  * People looking for work can write a short email describing what
> they are looking for along with a link to their resume.

Well, I guess I'm the first.  ;-)

I'm more of a jack-of-all-trades than a hard-core coder, so I'm not
really looking for anything specific.  I've been programming Python for
more than a decade, mostly web development; I've also done tech support,
QA, sysadmin, tech writing, consulting, and training.  I'm mostly
interested in jobs from roughly Sunnyvale to San Bruno, but San Jose to
SF is fine -- not East Bay, though.

Resume at http://pythoncraft.com/aahz_resume.txt
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

From nar at hush.com  Fri May 22 04:28:26 2009
From: nar at hush.com (Nathan Ramella)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:28:26 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] boxee's Python-based Dev Challenge
In-Reply-To: <f2586d5f0905211654ta4a3e24g26eedbc41ca27010@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f2586d5f0905211654ta4a3e24g26eedbc41ca27010@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ffea4f746956a24acfaa8f6091ff2f50@smtp.hushmail.com>

You mean the Python API that's been in XBMC for years? The same XBMC  
that begat Plex that you guys forked from, put a new skin on it,  
followed someone else's instructions on how to get USB stick install  
wortking on AppleTV.. That Python API?

Great work with that.

-n



From avner at boxee.tv  Fri May 22 05:00:46 2009
From: avner at boxee.tv (avner ronen)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:00:46 -0400
Subject: [Baypiggies] boxee's Python-based Dev Challenge
In-Reply-To: <ffea4f746956a24acfaa8f6091ff2f50@smtp.hushmail.com>
References: <f2586d5f0905211654ta4a3e24g26eedbc41ca27010@mail.gmail.com>
	<ffea4f746956a24acfaa8f6091ff2f50@smtp.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <f2586d5f0905212000n7b1c67bcte394f9e759184e6a@mail.gmail.com>

Nathan,

The boxee Python API is in addition to the Python-based plug-in architecture
that already existed in XBMC. You can read more about it here
http://developer.boxee.tv

It may be that you are a bit misinformed about what boxee is, what is the
history of how we got started and the nature of our relationship with XBMC.
Will be happy to chat and give you more color. I am 'avneronen' on Skype.

Regards,
Avner


On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Nathan Ramella <nar at hush.com> wrote:

> You mean the Python API that's been in XBMC for years? The same XBMC that
> begat Plex that you guys forked from, put a new skin on it, followed someone
> else's instructions on how to get USB stick install wortking on AppleTV..
> That Python API?
>
> Great work with that.
>
> -n
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/eb24e8d0/attachment.htm>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri May 22 08:48:32 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:48:32 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon Recap summary?
Message-ID: <F2F771B1-36AF-4FEF-A27D-0271D4F1EDD2@glenjarvis.com>

Jim,

    Am I correct in interpreting your previous emails that we will be  
having a Python meeting a week from tonight (Thursday, May 28). And  
the topic will be a recap of PyCon?

Is the list of speakers for next week consolidated yet?  If not, no  
worries, I'm just curious and checking in.

Cheers,


Glen
--
415-680-3964
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090521/715f005d/attachment.htm>

From jim at well.com  Fri May 22 16:06:29 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:06:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] PyCon Recap summary?
In-Reply-To: <F2F771B1-36AF-4FEF-A27D-0271D4F1EDD2@glenjarvis.com>
References: <F2F771B1-36AF-4FEF-A27D-0271D4F1EDD2@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <1243001189.21237.63.camel@jim-laptop>



   yes, you're correct. we have daryl and wesley. 
i'm hoping to snare one more speaker. i've got 
to get an announcement out in a day or two. 


On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 23:48 -0700, Glen Jarvis wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> 
>    Am I correct in interpreting your previous emails that we will be
> having a Python meeting a week from tonight (Thursday, May 28). And
> the topic will be a recap of PyCon?
> 
> 
> Is the list of speakers for next week consolidated yet?  If not, no
> worries, I'm just curious and checking in.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glen
> --
> 415-680-3964
> glen at glenjarvis.com
> 
> 
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From jim at well.com  Fri May 22 16:16:27 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:16:27 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1243001787.21237.66.camel@jim-laptop>



i believe it was wesley who suggested 
having a bayPIGgies talk relating to 
recruiters and jobs and such. is there 
interest in putting together a talk 
focusing on python job-finding and 
career paths and so on? 



On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 17:42 -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote: "companies aren't always advertising all their
> > jobs.  Beyond that, I think you need to figure out which companies use
> > Python and apply to them directly regardless of whether they're
> > advertising (I haven't quite gotten to that stage, but it's my next
> > step)."
> >
> > Aahz, you are absolutely correct with this.  Many companies don't advertise
> > some/all/any of their available jobs.  This due to various reasons including
> > startups in "stealth mode" who don't want to widely publicize their
> > existence except through very targeted solicitations, or smaller companies
> > who don't have an internal HR or Recruiting team and who leave it up to
> > their very busy managers to get  job descriptions written and posted on the
> > careers site, or even larger companies that are constantly hiring the same
> > skill sets and so keep cycling the same job descriptions regardless or
> > whether or not the jobs are actually "active"... to name just a few reasons
> > jobs aren't always publicized or kept up to date.
> >
> > So I am a recruiter (who has connected with and established relationships
> > with a few members here at BayPiggies) and I've adhered to the guidlines of
> > not posting any jobs here without first discussing with the moderator (which
> > I haven't even done to date mostly because I haven't thought of this forum
> > as a job marketing tool) and of course I wouldn't dream of posting unless I
> > was directly representing the company:-)... So in the spirit of community I
> > would like to suggest that perhaps we start a discussion thread where we
> > help fellow members of this forum who are actively researching new job
> > opportunities by providing information/intelligence/insight/etc. about any
> > Bay Area companies who widely use Python and who we know are hiring or who
> > have been hiring python developers.
> >
> > If what Ive suggested is amenable to the Moderator and if it hasn't already
> > been done, then I would be happy to start the thread by providing the names
> > of 2-3 companies who I know are hiring or who have recently been hiring
> > python engineers, including a brief overview of the company and also the
> > best course of contact at the company for any interested parties.   It's a
> > tight market out there, let's embrace the spirit of community, and share
> > information that may more readily benefit someone else.   C'mon recruiters
> > too!  Karma isn't just a bunch of hooey.
> >
> > Moderator? It's your call.  Assuming you give the go-ahead, I'll suggest the
> > following format:
> >
> > -Company Name
> > -website if any
> > -location
> > -Brief overview of the company or as much info as can be divulged if it's in
> > "stealth"
> > -Known relevant jobs
> > -Best suggested contact (please only provide specific contact details if you
> > have that person's expressed consent to post his/her info, otherwise point
> > to generic job seekers email contact)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Elan
> 
> Elan, thanks for following the rules.
> 
> <moderator hat on>
> Ok, I know that a lot of people are struggling to find work, so I'm
> going to make a one time exception.
> 
>  * Recruiters may reply to this thread (note, that "[RECRUITER]" is in
> the subject).  Recruiters may *not* post job listings that are out of
> the area unless telecommuting is an option.  I'm sure there are other
> ways in which this allowance can be abused--please don't.
> 
>  * People looking for work can write a short email describing what
> they are looking for along with a link to their resume.
> 
> This is not a permanent change to our policies.  Rather, this is a
> short window in order to serve our members.  After all, this list
> exists to serve its members--specifically the ones who code in Python
> ;)
> 
> If it gets out of hand, I reserve the right to ask everyone to stop the thread.
> 
> I'm sorry to be so draconian, but if I don't enforce the rules to the
> best of my ability, I'll get an earful from the other members ;)
> 
> If you have any complaints: a) I suggest you setup an email filter to
> filter out these messages b) send me email with complaints privately.
> </moderator hat on>
> 
> Best Regards,
> -jj
> 


From jim at well.com  Fri May 22 16:19:25 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:19:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>



the sf-lug rules allow job postings if 
they follow the format rules: 
* ASCII text 
* no more than five brief paragraphs: 
1: job title, city location, salary range 
2: skills wanted 
3: job description 
4: company benefits 
5: contact information 



On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 21:09 -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.
> >
> > BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not just
> > recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
> > (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not getting
> > a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads or
> > contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong client
> > relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have to
> > include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone chips in to
> > do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
> >
> > So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately but
> > I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
> > stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm that
> > they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
> > preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.  I
> > also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post but
> > need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before me, do
> > the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
> > seekers in this community.
> 
> I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
> don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
> Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
> to know:
> 
> a) What technologies does the company use?
> b) Where are they located?
> c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
> d) What positions are they hiring for?
> 
> After knowing those things, I'll want to know:
> 
> e) Is this a sweatshop?
> f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?  clueless?)?
> 
> My $0.02,
> -jj
> 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 22 16:21:25 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:21:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <1243001787.21237.66.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<1243001787.21237.66.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090522142125.GA11008@panix.com>

On Fri, May 22, 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> i believe it was wesley who suggested having a bayPIGgies talk        
> relating to recruiters and jobs and such. is there interest in        
> putting together a talk focusing on python job-finding and career     
> paths and so on?                                                      

I'm not sure that would be particularly useful.  Most of the advice I
personally would give is very not Python-specific, plus for something
like this I think that having lots of different opinions is good.
Overall, IMO this list is probably the best place for this discussion.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

From joeygartin at gmail.com  Fri May 22 16:21:33 2009
From: joeygartin at gmail.com (Joey Gartin)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:21:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1509de2b0905220721v67cf0c4atb69882cc73125893@mail.gmail.com>

Yes!

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:19 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>
> the sf-lug rules allow job postings if
> they follow the format rules:
> * ASCII text
> * no more than five brief paragraphs:
> 1: job title, city location, salary range
> 2: skills wanted
> 3: job description
> 4: company benefits
> 5: contact information
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 21:09 -0700, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:
> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Excellent jj (mr. moderator)!  I think this can work.
> > >
> > > BTW, to be clear I want to encourage EVERYONE to contribute and not
> just
> > > recruiters, especially since my guess is that most fee-based recruiters
> > > (definitely not all) will be reluctant to contribute if they are not
> getting
> > > a fee or if they feel paranoid about other recruiters "stealing" leads
> or
> > > contacts.  My comment to those recruiters... if you have a strong
> client
> > > relationship there's no reason to worry, and remember you do not have
> to
> > > include any clients you are currently working with.  If everyone chips
> in to
> > > do what they can we will all benefit in the long run.
> > >
> > > So jj and everyone else, I would love to start this all off immediately
> but
> > > I'm going to wait to post my leads until tonight.  I have a couple of
> > > stealth co's in S.F. that I would like to list, but need to confirm
> that
> > > they are still actively hiring python engineers, who I can list as
> > > preferred contacts and also how much I can divulge about the companies.
>  I
> > > also have a couple fo non-stealth co's based in S.F. that I will post
> but
> > > need to confirm the same info.  Please, to those who may post before
> me, do
> > > the best you can to provide current and relevant information to the job
> > > seekers in this community.
> >
> > I'll second that.  Here's my hint to the recruiters of the world.  I
> > don't really care who the VCs are or where the CEO went to college.
> > Sure, I might want to know those things eventually, but first I want
> > to know:
> >
> > a) What technologies does the company use?
> > b) Where are they located?
> > c) Can they afford to pay me a decent salary?
> > d) What positions are they hiring for?
> >
> > After knowing those things, I'll want to know:
> >
> > e) Is this a sweatshop?
> > f) How does the company develop software (fast and dirty?  agile?
>  clueless?)?
> >
> > My $0.02,
> > -jj
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Joey Gartin
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090522/1352ab84/attachment-0001.htm>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 22 16:26:36 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:26:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090522142636.GB11008@panix.com>

On Fri, May 22, 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> the sf-lug rules allow job postings if 
> they follow the format rules: 
> * ASCII text 
> * no more than five brief paragraphs: 
> 1: job title, city location, salary range 
> 2: skills wanted 
> 3: job description 
> 4: company benefits 
> 5: contact information 

We've always allowed job postings; however, in the past we have
prohibited postings from recruiters.  There are a number of reasons for
this, including difficulty of preventing duplicate postings from multiple
recruiters (the python.org Job Board uses manual labor to prevent dups).

The focus of the BayPIGgies list should remain discussion about Python;
resources for job-hunting are myriad.

BTW, the python.org Job Board also lists a number of other sites for
finding Python jobs.  One that isn't listed is simplyhired.com, which
I've found moderately useful.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 22 16:30:51 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:30:51 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <20090522142636.GB11008@panix.com>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090522142636.GB11008@panix.com>
Message-ID: <20090522143051.GA7216@panix.com>

On Fri, May 22, 2009, Aahz wrote:
>
> BTW, the python.org Job Board also lists a number of other sites for
> finding Python jobs.  One that isn't listed is simplyhired.com, which
> I've found moderately useful.

Actually, I decided to go ahead and add simplyhired.com.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines."  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

From glaw at slide.com  Fri May 22 18:23:41 2009
From: glaw at slide.com (Grace Law)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:23:41 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
Message-ID: <31EFFC7F-F768-4AD6-834D-68DB82312ED5@slide.com>

> i believe it was wesley who suggested having a bayPIGgies talk
> relating to recruiters and jobs and such. is there interest in
> putting together a talk focusing on python job-finding and career
> paths and so on?

A few of you on this list know me already :-)  I am an independent  
technical recruiter with 10+ years of experience at agencies and as  
in-house recruiter.   Most recently, my focus is on python web  
development.  I also help organize sfpython meetup.  I would be happy  
to prepare a talk focusing on job-finding, career paths, what one  
need to do to prepare for an interview... etc.  Just let me know if  
there is an interest and how long you want the talk to be :-)   
Personally, I don't think this should be the main talk for the night :-)

Feel free to connect with me via linkedin as well -
I am recruiting for Slide now as an in-house contract recruiter.   We  
do have python positions posted on our website:
http://www.slide.com/static/jobs
I also have a few company contacts outside of Slide and will be happy  
to help.

Best,

Grace Law
gracelaw at mac.com / glaw at slide.com
650-823-7236 cell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gracelaw1972


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090522/149b1cf6/attachment.htm>

From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com  Fri May 22 18:29:03 2009
From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:29:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for PyCon recaps
In-Reply-To: <1242953326.21237.42.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1240677368.16396.118.camel@jim-laptop>
	<fbf2758a0904271005i61f97531k770964fdcf0927bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1242953326.21237.42.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <fbf2758a0905220929q74bec05ap76be368f106b6f10@mail.gmail.com>

I have some slides that I presented within VMware that give an
overview of all the sessions and tutorials I attended (similar to what
I presented to BayPIGgies last year).  I'll pick and choose my
favorites from them.  I will certainly "help" Wesley recap Joe
Gregorio's "The (lack of) design patterns in Python" talk and Jack
Diederich's "Class Decorators: Radically Simple".  I'll probably also
cover (time permitting) Owen Taylor's "Reinteract: a better way to
interact with Python" and David Beazley's "A Curious Course on
Coroutines and Concurrency" tutorial.

--
Daryl


On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:48 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> you're signed up for may 28. what'll you
> recap?
> jim
> 415 823 4590 my cellphone, call anytime
>
> On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 10:05 -0700, Daryl Spitzer wrote:
>> Sign me up for a recap (if you haven't already).
>>
>> --
>> Daryl
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:36 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > ? If you went to PyCon this year, it will be
>> > helpful to get your sense of the event or some
>> > notable session.
>> > ? "PyCon Recaps" is the theme for our May 28
>> > meeting. A recap might be as brief as three or
>> > four minutes in the case of pointing out a
>> > speaker, session, or technical feature along
>> > with a link. A recap probably will be best if
>> > it's under fifteen minutes (if you've got a
>> > topic that deserves a longer time, consider
>> > giving it as a featured talk later this year).
>> > My guess is that seven to ten minutes is near
>> > ideal for a recap.
>> > ? Please reply to the list if you can give
>> > a PyCon recap on May 28.
>> > with thanks,
>> > jim
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Baypiggies mailing list
>> > Baypiggies at python.org
>> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>> >
>>
>
>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri May 22 22:53:44 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for PyCon recaps
In-Reply-To: <fbf2758a0905220929q74bec05ap76be368f106b6f10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1240677368.16396.118.camel@jim-laptop>
	<fbf2758a0904271005i61f97531k770964fdcf0927bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1242953326.21237.42.camel@jim-laptop>
	<fbf2758a0905220929q74bec05ap76be368f106b6f10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905221353j4e9d6ca8m46976aebeeb52cf4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Daryl Spitzer <daryl.spitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have some slides that I presented within VMware that give an
> overview of all the sessions and tutorials I attended (similar to what
> I presented to BayPIGgies last year). ?I'll pick and choose my
> favorites from them. ?I will certainly "help" Wesley recap Joe
> Gregorio's "The (lack of) design patterns in Python" talk and Jack
> Diederich's "Class Decorators: Radically Simple". ?I'll probably also
> cover (time permitting) Owen Taylor's "Reinteract: a better way to
> interact with Python" and David Beazley's "A Curious Course on
> Coroutines and Concurrency" tutorial.

+1!

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri May 22 22:54:59 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:54:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <31EFFC7F-F768-4AD6-834D-68DB82312ED5@slide.com>
References: <31EFFC7F-F768-4AD6-834D-68DB82312ED5@slide.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905221354x49c09c36l4c5e18a84e585440@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Grace Law <glaw at slide.com> wrote:
> i believe it was wesley who suggested having a bayPIGgies talk
> relating to recruiters and jobs and such. is there interest in
> putting together a talk focusing on python job-finding and career
> paths and so on?
>
> A few of you on this list know me already :-) ?I am an independent technical
> recruiter with 10+ years of experience at agencies and as in-house
> recruiter. ? Most recently, my focus is on python web development. ?I also
> help organize sfpython meetup. ?I would be happy to prepare a talk focusing
> on job-finding, career paths, what one need to do to prepare for an
> interview... etc. ?Just let me know if there is an interest and how long you
> want the talk to be :-) ?Personally, I don't think this should be the main
> talk for the night :-)
> Feel free to connect with me via linkedin as well -
> I am recruiting for Slide now as an in-house contract recruiter. ? We do
> have python positions posted on our website:
> http://www.slide.com/static/jobs
> I also have a few company contacts outside of Slide and will be happy to
> help.
> Best,
> Grace Law
> gracelaw at mac.com / glaw at slide.com
> 650-823-7236 cell
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/gracelaw1972

Tell us about the companies ;)

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Fri May 22 22:57:47 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:57:47 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work
In-Reply-To: <1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <b5cbfd40905140852n435f9a91qec76e892e7e1e3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090514165605.GA22676@panix.com> <20090520100213.GA22785@hrair>
	<20090520121445.GB6926@panix.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201617y4f0b45b2h32b9f54b00c2fd27@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905201742m933dcefof61c8b9e440c3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c82d77b0905201844y4ef84733g1de7c7b9f4e8db2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905202109q4ecb6987w5bfef962b234c6ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<1243001965.21237.69.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905221357y235acdb4h4d79c15f2fa9ad46@mail.gmail.com>

> the sf-lug rules allow job postings if
> they follow the format rules:
> * ASCII text
> * no more than five brief paragraphs:
> 1: job title, city location, salary range
> 2: skills wanted
> 3: job description
> 4: company benefits
> 5: contact information

All of those seem reasonable, although I'm not personally very
offended by HTML email.

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From nagappan at gmail.com  Tue May 26 06:17:55 2009
From: nagappan at gmail.com (Nagappan Alagappan)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:17:55 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announcement: Racetrack 1.0 repository
Message-ID: <9d0602eb0905252117t776afeabycb782a7650bc69dc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Racetrack <http://racetrackqa.com/> is a designed to store and display the
results of automated tests.  At VMware <http://vmware.com/>, over 2,000,000
test results have been stored in Racetrack Repository.  Over 25 different
teams use the repository to report results.  It has a very simple data
model, just three basic tables.  ResultSet (stores information about a set
of tests (Product, Build, etc.)  Result, which stores information about the
testcase itself, and ResultDetail, which stores the details of each
verification performed within the test.  ResultDetails also include
screenshots and log files, make it easy for the triage engineer to determine
the cause of the failure.

We are very excited to offer Racetrack to the
public<https://launchpad.net/racetrack>as an Open Source project.  It
offers complete visibility on test results to
the organization, much more than Pass/Fail. QA Engineers, Developers, QA
Managers, Project Managers all find it useful to quickly see the results of
Basic Acceptance Tests, available within an hour of the build
completing.  Racetrack Triage Report makes it easy to see the number of
defects found by a set of tests, and the number of failures caused by
Product Changes, and Script failures.   By adding a reference to your
Bugzilla and Build systems, you can easily provide links directly from
Racetrack to a defect or a build information page.  The Web Services API is
already part of the package, and SilkTest and Java APIs will be added
shortly.

Thanks
Nagappan

-- 
Linux Desktop (GUI Application) Testing Project -
http://ldtp.freedesktop.org
http://nagappanal.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090525/b4a6dea8/attachment.htm>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Tue May 26 22:57:12 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:57:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [JOB] Contract job for Python developer
Message-ID: <68500078-1AFC-4C51-B454-65FB819705FB@dartworks.biz>

Greetings All,

The company I work for is looking for a contractor to help with QA  
automation and automated test cases. The language is, of course,  
Python. The company is located in Mountain View, CA.


Contract job description
========================

Python developer

Looking for a strong software developer to help develop sophisticated  
QA automation framework.

The project involves developing components of a testing framework  
written in Python, as well as writing test cases for an exciting,  
cutting-edge product.

The required skills are as follows.

Must have:
         - Strong Python development and OO design skills
         - Strong test automation experience
         - Good QA methodology, detail oriented

Nice to Have:
         - .NET  and/or Mono experience
         - VMware virtual infrastructure, including SDKs and API
         - IronPython
         - Linux
         - WWW/LAMP development experience
         - Javascript


The test framework used and extended is based on Pycopia and Plinth  
test and web framework.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed May 27 06:21:14 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:21:14 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] DEADLINE: OSCON 2009 early bird June 2
Message-ID: <20090527042114.GA4071@panix.com>

NOTE: I will be offering a free membership to OSCON to the highest bidder
for volunteering to help run a Python booth at OSCON -- details soon, or
poke me if it's a significant factor in deciding whether to purchase an
early bird registration.

Registration is now open for the O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON).
OSCON 2009 will be July 20-24 in San Jose, California.

Early registration ends June 2.

Use the special discount code 'os09pgm' for an extra 15% off.

For more information:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From jim at well.com  Wed May 27 17:21:11 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:21:11 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28, 2009: PyCon Recaps
Message-ID: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28, 2009: PyCon Recaps   

NOTE BayPIGgies meets at the Symantec Vcafe, at Symantec's location at
350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. 
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

Tonight's talk is 
* PyCon Recaps 
by Wesley Chun, Daryl Spitzer, and Aaron Maxwell 


Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: 
unknown at this time 


LOCATION FOR May 28, 2009 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone



------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, 
any first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................

Newbie Nugget: unknown  


..... 7:45 PM to 8:35 PM ................

PyCon Recaps 
by Wesley Chun, Daryl Spitzer, Aaron Maxwell 

Topic areas will include Design Patterns, Class Decorators, Coroutines
and Concurrency, Testing, and more. 

..... 8:35 PM to 9:00 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics 
the announcers are interested in. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up 
individually on the announcements and other topics of 
interest.



From tripathi.vibha at gmail.com  Wed May 27 18:20:35 2009
From: tripathi.vibha at gmail.com (b. tripathi)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:20:35 -0400
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python - Work from home
Message-ID: <4A1D6853.8060201@gmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090527/fdc93047/attachment.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed May 27 23:24:25 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Python - Work from home
In-Reply-To: <4A1D6853.8060201@gmail.com>
References: <4A1D6853.8060201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905271424o7c971de6xd54f1e2956699774@mail.gmail.com>

I added [RECRUITER] to the subject.

-jj

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 9:20 AM, b. tripathi <tripathi.vibha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi RECRUITERS,
>
> I am a Phython part time developer - meaning to say I have worked with
> Python using it forcreating reporting tools, automation frameworks etc. I
> would like to keep myself growing in that area while I work in Java/C++ as
> my core skills.
>
> I can work from home with my Python programming. Please inform in case of
> WFH projects.
>
> Regards.
> Vibha
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed May 27 23:26:29 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:26:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28,
	2009: PyCon 	Recaps
In-Reply-To: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905271426t2ca31348qf5d127bc19b6026e@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's okay to skip the newbie nugget this month given the
nature of the main talk--i.e. summarizing a wide variety of other
talks.

-jj

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:21 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28, 2009: PyCon Recaps
>
> NOTE BayPIGgies meets at the Symantec Vcafe, at Symantec's location at
> 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View.
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18
>
> Tonight's talk is
> * PyCon Recaps
> by Wesley Chun, Daryl Spitzer, and Aaron Maxwell
>
>
> Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an
> essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python.
> Tonight's Newbie Nugget:
> unknown at this time
>
>
> LOCATION FOR May 28, 2009
> Symantec Corporation
> Symantec Vcafe
> 350 Ellis Street
> Mountain View, CA 94043
>
> BayPIGgies meeting information is available at
> http://baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
>
> ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements,
> any first-minute announcements.
>
>
> ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................
>
> Newbie Nugget: unknown
>
>
> ..... 7:45 PM to 8:35 PM ................
>
> PyCon Recaps
> by Wesley Chun, Daryl Spitzer, Aaron Maxwell
>
> Topic areas will include Design Patterns, Class Decorators, Coroutines
> and Concurrency, Testing, and more.
>
> ..... 8:35 PM to 9:00 PM ?................
> Mapping and Random Access
>
> Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics
> the announcers are interested in.
>
> Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up
> individually on the announcements and other topics of
> interest.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Thu May 28 01:54:23 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:54:23 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RESUME] Looking for a tiny startup
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905271654r4305193fu4e05e424559ba3a9@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a startup guy.  I like to build startups from scratch.  I come
with excellent references, including the last startup I built from
scratch.  I'm looking to do another.  I prefer to work from home and
meet in person weekly.  I do require a salary, but I'm not overly
expensive.  I'm a Python expert.  I can do backend work, frontend
work, GUIs, etc.  Here's my resume:
http://ironorchid.com/jjinux/resume/

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 28 03:48:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Django and Bioinformatics
Message-ID: <23A5A398-FC6F-4A14-B35C-624EDF2B5FB7@glenjarvis.com>

I know the first thing to ever do, before jumping into another  
project, is to check what's already been done. I know I shouldn't  
reinvent the wheel if it's already in progress elsewhere. But, I  
sometimes forget.

So, before I start jumping into creating custom fields for gene  
sequences, folded proteins, etc, I should see what's already been  
done. I'm not having a lot of luck with my initial search. Anyone  
tried working with Django for anything bioinformatic related yet?  Is  
there already a library/work that's been done (Django I mean, not just  
BioPython)?

Is there anyone out there who is working on a similar project now and  
wouldn't mind a mind-meld over coffee?  I am doing this research to  
prepare for a contract I don't have yet, so I'm in the initial stages  
of pitching the contract (and elf-evaluating my skills to see if I  
could do this project).

Thanks in advance for collaborating/sharing....


Cheers,



Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090527/58c950ed/attachment-0001.htm>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 28 07:27:01 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 22:27:01 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping this session? Videos already online
Message-ID: <C6515DC1-E54D-4F6D-ACA5-45327D589071@glenjarvis.com>

I normally truck around about a wee bit of stuff so we can video tape  
the session for our members who aren't local.

Buuuuttt, this is a recap of PyCon. Aaaannnddd, all of those videos  
are already online:

http://pycon.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc

So, speak now or forever hold your peace. If you want me to still  
video tape, please let me know in time to bring the equipment.


Cheers,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090527/941bb439/attachment.htm>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 28 19:44:40 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:44:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping this session? Videos already online
In-Reply-To: <200905280906.50461.amax@redsymbol.net>
References: <C6515DC1-E54D-4F6D-ACA5-45327D589071@glenjarvis.com>
	<200905280906.50461.amax@redsymbol.net>
Message-ID: <B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>

> I for one would really like to have the video taken.  Speaking as...  
> er, a
> speaker.  I'm going to be summarizing several hours' worth of talks  
> in 20
> minutes....

Aaron,

     This is good to know. I never mind schleping that stuff along and  
setting up. Although it's pretty labor intensive, it makes me feel  
good that, as a 1-1.5 year newb, I've been able to contribute back to  
the community.

     I also realize that it may be helpful to speakers to have  
original formats (edited, but not formatted into a web stream). This  
way you can take the video and do what you want with it. I can happily  
give these things out if needed. Of course, it's better for BayPIGgies  
if speakers can link to the same YouTube videos (which have never yet  
been created/still in *.mov format) so it goes to the BayPIGgies  
YouTube space and promotes them....   I have a friend (student) who  
does video editing professionally and is needing extra income -- when  
I have a bigger budget, I'll pay him to do a lot of the tedious stuff  
that are labor intensive and that I hadn't gotten to yet. We'll also  
take donations toward this effort if anyone is so inclined. We're  
paying him $20/hour and he's a video film student (carbon copied on  
this email).

     With all that said, I left this morning with the decision not to  
tape and I left the equipment at home. I'm changing that decision now  
(if I can work out the details). I walked to Citizen Space (http://citizenspace.us/ 
) this morning and will have to get home and get the stuff before  
tonight. So, it will be a disorganized rush/mess if I can still make  
it happen tonight.

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090528/0e3d384b/attachment.htm>

From ratsbane at gmail.com  Thu May 28 20:04:26 2009
From: ratsbane at gmail.com (Douglas Sims)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:04:26 -0500
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping this session? Videos already online
In-Reply-To: <B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>
References: <C6515DC1-E54D-4F6D-ACA5-45327D589071@glenjarvis.com>
	<200905280906.50461.amax@redsymbol.net>
	<B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <494ffd150905281104o31dc80afj6b25c0765f933fd9@mail.gmail.com>

Glen, you've been doing great work with the videos.  I went to meetings when
I lived in Palo Alto but now that I don't, the videos provide a great
connection to the group and the talks, which are consistently worthwhile.

Thank you to you, the speakers, and the group.




On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:

> I for one would really like to have the video taken.  Speaking as... er, a
> speaker.  I'm going to be summarizing several hours' worth of talks in 20
> minutes....
>
>
> Aaron,
>
>     This is good to know. I never mind schleping that stuff along and
> setting up. Although it's pretty labor intensive, it makes me feel good
> that, as a 1-1.5 year newb, I've been able to contribute back to the
> community.
>
>     I also realize that it may be helpful to speakers to have original
> formats (edited, but not formatted into a web stream). This way you can take
> the video and do what you want with it. I can happily give these things out
> if needed. Of course, it's better for BayPIGgies if speakers can link to the
> same YouTube videos (which have never yet been created/still in *.mov
> format) so it goes to the BayPIGgies YouTube space and promotes them....   I
> have a friend (student) who does video editing professionally and is needing
> extra income -- when I have a bigger budget, I'll pay him to do a lot of the
> tedious stuff that are labor intensive and that I hadn't gotten to yet.
> We'll also take donations toward this effort if anyone is so inclined. We're
> paying him $20/hour and he's a video film student (carbon copied on this
> email).
>
>     With all that said, I left this morning with the decision not to tape
> and I left the equipment at home. I'm changing that decision now (if I can
> work out the details). I walked to Citizen Space (http://citizenspace.us/)
> this morning and will have to get home and get the stuff before tonight. So,
> it will be a disorganized rush/mess if I can still make it happen tonight.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
>
> Glen Jarvis
> --
> glen at glenjarvis.com
>
> "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090528/2606ee78/attachment.htm>

From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu May 28 20:08:54 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:08:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping this session? Videos already online
In-Reply-To: <B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>
References: <C6515DC1-E54D-4F6D-ACA5-45327D589071@glenjarvis.com>
	<200905280906.50461.amax@redsymbol.net>
	<B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905281108n2d7ff273j7b5f1b02340ff9c6@mail.gmail.com>

glen,

i know aaron would like it recorded and understand his reasoning why:
there are people out there who don't have time to actually watch the
real talks over several hours and prefer a compendium of summaries
both as an FYI and perhaps to determine whether it's worthwhile to go
hit the full videos.

for me, it's not as important, so do whatever is most convenient for
you. i don't know if anyone has spoken up about what you do, but i
find your service of recording, editing, and putting the videos online
to be a privilege that would not exist if you aren't volunteering and
putting in the effort of doing it. so i'd like to offer a big THANKS
from those of us who appreciate what you're doing.

if you feel it's worthwhile, feel free to announce after the meetings
that you're taking donations for more "professional editing" of the
videos. we used to take donations to cover for hot food that someone
used to bring, and there was no problem with ppl chipping in. of
course, things may be different in this economy....

cheers!
-wesley


On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> I for one would really like to have the video taken. ?Speaking as... er, a
> speaker. ?I'm going to be summarizing several hours' worth of talks in 20
> minutes....
>
> Aaron,
> ?? ?This is good to know. I never mind schleping that stuff along and
> setting up. Although it's pretty labor intensive, it makes me feel good
> that, as a 1-1.5 year newb, I've been able to contribute back to the
> community.
> ?? ?I also realize that it may be helpful to speakers to have original
> formats (edited, but not formatted into a web stream). This way you can take
> the video and do what you want with it. I can happily give these things out
> if needed. Of course, it's better for BayPIGgies if speakers can link to the
> same YouTube videos (which have never yet been created/still in *.mov
> format) so it goes to the BayPIGgies YouTube space and promotes them.... ? I
> have a friend (student) who does video editing professionally and is needing
> extra income -- when I have a bigger budget, I'll pay him to do a lot of the
> tedious stuff that are labor intensive and that I hadn't gotten to yet.
> We'll also take donations toward this effort if anyone is so inclined. We're
> paying him $20/hour and he's a video film student (carbon copied on this
> email).
> ?? ?With all that said, I left this morning with the decision not to tape
> and I left the?equipment?at home. I'm changing that decision now (if I can
> work out the details). I walked to Citizen Space (http://citizenspace.us/)
> this morning and will have to get home and get the stuff before tonight. So,
> it will be a disorganized rush/mess if I can still make it happen tonight.

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu May 28 20:21:22 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:21:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Video Taping this session? Videos already online
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580905281108n2d7ff273j7b5f1b02340ff9c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C6515DC1-E54D-4F6D-ACA5-45327D589071@glenjarvis.com>
	<200905280906.50461.amax@redsymbol.net>
	<B5FB1A16-E1D4-4FC9-87B9-14BA28C14B44@glenjarvis.com>
	<78b3a9580905281108n2d7ff273j7b5f1b02340ff9c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E57AB74-9685-42DC-932E-84635F42E5CC@glenjarvis.com>

> i know aaron would like it recorded and understand his reasoning why:
> there are people out there who don't have time to actually watch the
> real talks over several hours and prefer a compendium of summaries
> both as an FYI and perhaps to determine whether it's worthwhile to go
> hit the full videos.

Excellent! I'll do my best to get tonight video recorded. I may be a  
bit of a mess setting up in time, but I'll try to prepare early. If I  
finish what I'm working on today early, I'll dash home and start  
getting setup. Either way, thanks for letting me know :)

> i don't know if anyone has spoken up about what you do, but i
> find your service of recording, editing, and putting the videos online
> to be a privilege that would not exist if you aren't volunteering and
> putting in the effort of doing it. so i'd like to offer a big THANKS
> from those of us who appreciate what you're doing.

Aw *shucks* Thanks Wesley. :)  I really appreciate it the kind  
words.  :)


> if you feel it's worthwhile, feel free to announce after the meetings
> that you're taking donations for more "professional editing" of the
> videos. we used to take donations to cover for hot food that someone
> used to bring, and there was no problem with ppl chipping in. of
> course, things may be different in this economy....

I can do this. Cory does have access to *much* better equipment than I  
do, so it's possible it will look more polished too :)   Usually, you  
can do everything that needs done with what I have, but it's such a  
pain. To "zoom in" on a speaker's face, to make it more visual, takes  
so much manual labor (seriously, an hour for a few minutes of  
speaking) - I don't have the equipment to do that in real time. Plus,  
last I heard, Cory could use the extra cash right now like most of us  
could.  :)

Thanks again for everyone for keeping this the most awesome Open  
Source community there is :)


Cheers,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090528/25954019/attachment-0001.htm>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri May 29 08:07:40 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:07:40 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28,
	2009: PyCon Recaps
In-Reply-To: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <ED87DDCD-2B14-4DEF-A7F5-91AA8B1C929C@dartworks.biz>


On May 27, 2009, at 8:21 AM, jim wrote:

>
> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28, 2009: PyCon Recaps


That was a very good meeting.  I"m glad I made it this time.

Regarding future talks, I could put together something about the  
Python test and measurement framework that Google recently open- 
sourced. It was used to test the Android Dream phone.  I am the  
primary author, and now maintainer of it. It's called powerdroid. http://code.google.com/p/powerdroid/

I have one physicist researching nanotechnology trying it out now, so  
I'm getting some usage and feedback on it. If enough are interested I  
can talk about it at some future meeting.

# Keith


From jim at well.com  Fri May 29 09:24:05 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 00:24:05 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28,
	2009: PyCon	Recaps
In-Reply-To: <ED87DDCD-2B14-4DEF-A7F5-91AA8B1C929C@dartworks.biz>
References: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
	<ED87DDCD-2B14-4DEF-A7F5-91AA8B1C929C@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <1243581845.7326.92.camel@jim-laptop>


   you're on! thanks! i've been hoping you'd 
give a talk. when? July and months following 
have no scheduled speakers. 
jim 
415 823 4590 my cellphone, call anytime 



On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 23:07 -0700, Keith Dart wrote:
> On May 27, 2009, at 8:21 AM, jim wrote:
> 
> >
> > BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28, 2009: PyCon Recaps
> 
> 
> That was a very good meeting.  I"m glad I made it this time.
> 
> Regarding future talks, I could put together something about the  
> Python test and measurement framework that Google recently open- 
> sourced. It was used to test the Android Dream phone.  I am the  
> primary author, and now maintainer of it. It's called powerdroid. http://code.google.com/p/powerdroid/
> 
> I have one physicist researching nanotechnology trying it out now, so  
> I'm getting some usage and feedback on it. If enough are interested I  
> can talk about it at some future meeting.
> 
> # Keith
> 


From glen at glenjarvis.com  Fri May 29 09:32:34 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 00:32:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Join us for Spamalot: A BayPIGgie event
Message-ID: <D6FE2794-69C7-4A55-8147-CB0B3A10F432@glenjarvis.com>

Have you ever wondered why the built-in IDE is called Idle? Why is the  
Google optimization project (http://code.google.com/p/unladen- 
swallow/) called the "Unladen Swallow" project? Why do we use 'eggs'  
and 'spam' instead of 'foo' and 'bar? Oh, bugger.. let's just go have  
fun:

http://www.montypythonsspamalot.com/
http://www.shnsf.com/shows/show.asp?key=18&subkey=947

Cheers,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/647a7747/attachment.htm>

From keith at dartworks.biz  Fri May 29 12:44:52 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 03:44:52 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday May 28,
 2009: PyCon Recaps
In-Reply-To: <1243581845.7326.92.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1243437671.6500.323.camel@jim-laptop>
	<ED87DDCD-2B14-4DEF-A7F5-91AA8B1C929C@dartworks.biz>
	<1243581845.7326.92.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090529034452.0ef35eb5@dartworks.biz>

On Fri, 29 May 2009 00:24:05 -0700
jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>    you're on! thanks! i've been hoping you'd 
> give a talk. when? July and months following 
> have no scheduled speakers. 
> jim 
> 415 823 4590 my cellphone, call anytime 

Me and my big mouth. ;-) ok, July or Aug should be fine. 

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

From elan.martinez at gmail.com  Fri May 29 16:48:46 2009
From: elan.martinez at gmail.com (Elan)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 07:48:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: MochiMedia (S.F.)
Message-ID: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>

Company: MochiMedia (www.mochimedia.com)
Location: S.F. (Mission St. between 1st and 2nd St.)

MochiMedia is a 20++ person startup, well funded (angel and VC), with a
solid business plan and multiple revenue streams.  The founders Jameson Hsu
and Bob Ippolito have been successful entrepreneurs, however, they have
recently hired some seasoned executive and technical management to help the
company accelerate to the next level.  (In brief about the company) Mochi
Media develops an advertising platform and network for casual games and they
also develop tools for games developers to profit from and monetize their
games. The company has been generating revenue, and they had previously been
through an acquisition process, which they turned down, recognizing instead
a good opportunity to build something new and exciting and to go for it
big!   An excellent place to work for the right person.  And, from personal
experience,  I have only good things to say about this company and the
people currently there.

(More about the company from their website) Mochi Media is a platform
dedicated to fueling the creativity of the gaming community through its
products and services.  The core product, MochiAds, is the largest online
games network for developers, advertisers and publishers reaching over 100
million unique users.  The network provides game developers with
monetization, distribution and analytics while providing advertisers with
turnkey opportunities to reach the one in three Internet users playing games
online. The thousands of online games available in the game catalog provide
publishers with engaging content to attract, entertain and retain their
users.  There is much more publicly available about Mochi Media, however, if
anyone would like more insight (non-confidential obviously) I'm happy to
answer any questions.

On the technology side, Python is the key language being used to develop
their various web apps, The technology stack is LAP(ostgreSQL)P(ython).
Bonus points for candidates who have experience with Erlang!  Bob Ippolito,
had released an open source erlang web server and is well known in the
erlang world (there's a longer story there about erlang and its stability as
a web server for anyone interested).  Anyhow, experience or love of other
functional languages is a plus, and high marks for candidates who are active
contributors to open source communities.

The company is comprised of a really solid bunch of young, smart,
even-keeled, and entrepreneurial people with healthy egos.  In the past,
they may have been a bit hasty in their hiring practices, but this was just
due to an overwhelming amount of enthusiasm by the hiring teams, a lack of
hiring procedure and experience and the desire to get the "best" people on
board with as little hassle as possible and as quickly as possible.  This
has since changed.  There is better process and procedure in place and the
interviewing teams have had  great coaching and as a result are now more
methodical, less hasty, and stricter with their evaluations.

Compensation and equity are competitive and commensurate with experience.
If you're clear about your expectations from the beginning and how you value
salary vs. equity there won't be any surprises when it comes to offers.

I'm not 100% on how up-to-date the careers page is, but they do still have a
listing posted for a "Web Developer", with the keys being web app dev
experience using Python/XHTML/Javascript/SQL/Flash.

Apply for work by sending an email with the job title in your subject
heading and emailing work at mochimedia.com.   For those who are more
proactive, you can do some research on Linkedin and make direct contact with
the appropriate person/manager through that network.

I'm happy to share more about what I know of this company, and if
appropriate I'm happy to make direct introductions to the Director of
Engineering, CTO or a co-founder.

Best,
Elan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/2b904229/attachment.htm>

From eric at ericwalstad.com  Fri May 29 17:41:43 2009
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 08:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: MochiMedia
	(S.F.)
In-Reply-To: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> MochiMedia is a 20++ person startup, well funded (angel and VC), with a
> solid business plan and multiple revenue streams.
What does 'angel' mean in this context?

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 29 18:28:30 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:28:30 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company:
	MochiMedia	(S.F.)
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090529162829.GB18770@panix.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009, Eric Walstad wrote:
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> MochiMedia is a 20++ person startup, well funded (angel and VC), with a
>> solid business plan and multiple revenue streams.
>
> What does 'angel' mean in this context?

Google for "angel investor", a discussion would be off-topic for this
list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From andrew at atoulou.se  Fri May 29 18:12:21 2009
From: andrew at atoulou.se (Andrew Akira Toulouse)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:12:21 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company: MochiMedia
	(S.F.)
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1138BC7F-FECC-42F5-81EF-1C33D2937ECB@atoulou.se>

Angel investors fund startups in a somewhat different fashion than VCs.

Wikipedia may help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor

--Andy

On May 29, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Eric Walstad wrote:

> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> MochiMedia is a 20++ person startup, well funded (angel and VC),  
>> with a
>> solid business plan and multiple revenue streams.
> What does 'angel' mean in this context?
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies


From jim at well.com  Fri May 29 18:31:42 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:31:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [RECRUITER] Finding work - Company:
	MochiMedia	(S.F.)
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c82d77b0905290748m2fa3e635jbc52013ff2e2502b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20905290841y2527b0fav7fe31b5ba2c5e9d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1243614702.7326.96.camel@jim-laptop>


i'm guessing "angel" means someone who's put 
out some money to help the mochimedia cause, 
different from VC in that return is not as 
strictly defined as for VCs, maybe the angel 
expects no return at all or what-you-can-
when-you-can. 


On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 08:41 -0700, Eric Walstad wrote:
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Elan <elan.martinez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > MochiMedia is a 20++ person startup, well funded (angel and VC), with a
> > solid business plan and multiple revenue streams.
> What does 'angel' mean in this context?
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> 


From eddymul at gmail.com  Fri May 29 19:12:42 2009
From: eddymul at gmail.com (Eddy Mulyono)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:12:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Join us for Spamalot: A BayPIGgie event
In-Reply-To: <D6FE2794-69C7-4A55-8147-CB0B3A10F432@glenjarvis.com>
References: <D6FE2794-69C7-4A55-8147-CB0B3A10F432@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <67357fc10905291012m2b23b860p7baf7fa635f0c4ac@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Have you ever wondered why the built-in IDE is called Idle?

Eric Idle?

> Why is the
> Google optimization project (http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/)
> called the "Unladen Swallow" project?

African or European?

> Why do we use 'eggs' and 'spam'
> instead of 'foo' and 'bar?

...

(need further Pythonesque research)

> Oh, bugger.. let's just go have fun:
> http://www.montypythonsspamalot.com/
> http://www.shnsf.com/shows/show.asp?key=18&subkey=947

I'm interested. Do we have a datetime in mind?

-Eddy
I don't see any group pricing in their website...   :(

From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com  Fri May 29 19:37:43 2009
From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:37:43 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] My PyCon 2009 notes
Message-ID: <fbf2758a0905291037m357abd25g1ec20211a16f66fa@mail.gmail.com>

You'll find my notes on David Beazley's A Curious Course on Coroutines
and Concurrency tutorial at
http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/curious-course-on-coroutines-and.html,
and my notes on Steve Holden?s Python 401: Some Advanced Topics
tutorial at http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/python-401-some-advanced-topics.html.

My notes on Friday, March 27th (the first "core" day of the
conference) are at
http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/pycon-2009-notes-march-27th.html.  I
still have to finish (formatting) my notes on the 28th and 29th.  Stay
tuned.

--
Daryl

From knupp at well.com  Fri May 29 20:53:03 2009
From: knupp at well.com (David Knupp)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:53:03 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
Message-ID: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>

On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Aahz wrote:

> (There's a joke that writing a web framework is the Python  
> equivalent of
> working through SICP.)

I remember this quip being posted to the list several weeks ago.  
Well, it turns out that it was prescient. M.I.T. has apparently made  
the historic decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using  
Python instead of Scheme! (My apologies if this has been mentioned  
before, and I somehow missed it.)

Here are some relevant links:

http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/learning/coursework/ 
the_end_of_an_era_1.shtml
http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03
http://danweinreb.org/blog/why-did-mit-switch-from-scheme-to-python

I wonder if this means that they'll be switching from SICP to  
Wesley's book? :-)

--d.


From paul.hoffman at gmail.com  Fri May 29 21:10:10 2009
From: paul.hoffman at gmail.com (Paul Hoffman)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:10:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <1e267dfe0905291210n25d3346dw648605091e7b8f86@mail.gmail.com>

For historical reference, they have been using Scheme in that class
since at least 1977. (And, yes, this is a first-hand observation....)

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri May 29 21:38:42 2009
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:38:42 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com> 
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W1598408FA6CC1989D897AFA0510@phx.gbl>


One word in favor of Scheme as a teaching tool for the functional code paradigm
(not as an actual development platform) is that it is nearly impossible to *not*
write functional code. It's a straitjacket.

How would you (automatically) enforce that in Python to teach the programmer?

Is there a lint ruleset for "bad" procedural practices? or Eclipse plugin?

Stephen

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/715c5cf9/attachment.htm>

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri May 29 22:03:22 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:03:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <20090529200322.GA18197@panix.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009, David Knupp wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Aahz wrote:
>>
>> (There's a joke that writing a web framework is the Python equivalent
>> of working through SICP.)
>
> I remember this quip being posted to the list several weeks ago. Well,
> it turns out that it was prescient. M.I.T. has apparently made the
> historic decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using
> Python instead of Scheme! (My apologies if this has been mentioned
> before, and I somehow missed it.)

Not sure whether it's been mentioned before here, but it earlier received
a lot of publicity in the larger Python community, and while I wasn't
thinking of it when I wrote my comment, I was certainly aware of it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From alecf at flett.org  Fri May 29 22:10:59 2009
From: alecf at flett.org (Alec Flett)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:10:59 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <c78d65270905291310k5b768002x81f175e98c6e061e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM, David Knupp <knupp at well.com> wrote:

> On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Aahz wrote:
>
>  (There's a joke that writing a web framework is the Python equivalent of
>> working through SICP.)
>>
>
> I remember this quip being posted to the list several weeks ago. Well, it
> turns out that it was prescient. M.I.T. has apparently made the historic
> decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using Python instead of
> Scheme! (My apologies if this has been mentioned before, and I somehow
> missed it.)
>
> Here are some relevant links:
>
> http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/learning/coursework/
> the_end_of_an_era_1.shtml
> http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03


I find this quote particularly interesting:
 Critically, this is the world for which scheme was originally designed.
Building larger programs out of a group of very small, understandable pieces
is what things like recursion and functional programming are built for.

The irony of this for me was that when I was learning Scheme in college, the
actual implementation of Scheme itself was a total mystery. It was just this
magical thing that 'just worked' - I could understand C and Pascal because I
could understand what they compiled down to. It took me at least 5 years of
professional experience after college before I really understood how a
higher-order language was implemented.

So at least for me, writing is Scheme was about building on a complex,
hard-to-understand piece, even if the language itself was small and easy to
understand and write in. Frankly it doesn't seem much different than Python
in that context!

Alec
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/fdcbed86/attachment-0001.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May 30 01:07:36 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:07:36 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM, David Knupp <knupp at well.com> wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Aahz wrote:
>
>> (There's a joke that writing a web framework is the Python equivalent of
>> working through SICP.)
>
> I remember this quip being posted to the list several weeks ago. Well, it
> turns out that it was prescient. M.I.T. has apparently made the historic
> decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using Python instead of
> Scheme! (My apologies if this has been mentioned before, and I somehow
> missed it.)
>
> Here are some relevant links:
>
> http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/learning/coursework/the_end_of_an_era_1.shtml
> http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03
> http://danweinreb.org/blog/why-did-mit-switch-from-scheme-to-python
>
> I wonder if this means that they'll be switching from SICP to Wesley's book?
> :-)

In one of the links above, Abelson said, "The engineer must learn to
perform scientific experiments to find out how the software and
hardware actually work, at least enough to accomplish the job at hand.
 Gerry pointed out that we may not like it this way (?because we?re
old fogies?), but that?s the way it is, and M.I.T. has to take that
into account."  He's right.

As much as I like SICP, it's not appropriate as an intro to
programming, and I'm thankful that I only encountered SICP after I was
already a decent programmer.  I personally think programming should be
introduced in a *fun* way, and robotics makes sense.  The old SICP
course is going to be taught at the upper division level, and I think
that's a good place for it.

My $0.02,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May 30 01:26:10 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:26:10 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Join us for Spamalot: A BayPIGgie event
In-Reply-To: <67357fc10905291012m2b23b860p7baf7fa635f0c4ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D6FE2794-69C7-4A55-8147-CB0B3A10F432@glenjarvis.com>
	<67357fc10905291012m2b23b860p7baf7fa635f0c4ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905291626q5c468c64r5c70fce00b1924c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Eddy Mulyono <eddymul at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>> Have you ever wondered why the built-in IDE is called Idle?
>
> Eric Idle?
>
>> Why is the
>> Google optimization project (http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/)
>> called the "Unladen Swallow" project?
>
> African or European?
>
>> Why do we use 'eggs' and 'spam'
>> instead of 'foo' and 'bar?
>
> ...
>
> (need further Pythonesque research)
>
>> Oh, bugger.. let's just go have fun:
>> http://www.montypythonsspamalot.com/
>> http://www.shnsf.com/shows/show.asp?key=18&subkey=947
>
> I'm interested. Do we have a datetime in mind?
>
> -Eddy
> I don't see any group pricing in their website... ? :(

Will there be a cheese shop and some dead parrots involved?  If so,
I'm *totally* in!

-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat May 30 01:29:46 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:29:46 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Join us for Spamalot: A BayPIGgie event
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905291626q5c468c64r5c70fce00b1924c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D6FE2794-69C7-4A55-8147-CB0B3A10F432@glenjarvis.com>
	<67357fc10905291012m2b23b860p7baf7fa635f0c4ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90905291626q5c468c64r5c70fce00b1924c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0905291629k4e0de871we1c7b986c3aee376@mail.gmail.com>

I'd love to go! What a neat idea Glen! Not sure I can afford it yet but keep
us updated on the date.

Donna

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Eddy Mulyono <eddymul at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
> wrote:
> >> Have you ever wondered why the built-in IDE is called Idle?
> >
> > Eric Idle?
> >
> >> Why is the
> >> Google optimization project (http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/)
> >> called the "Unladen Swallow" project?
> >
> > African or European?
> >
> >> Why do we use 'eggs' and 'spam'
> >> instead of 'foo' and 'bar?
> >
> > ...
> >
> > (need further Pythonesque research)
> >
> >> Oh, bugger.. let's just go have fun:
> >> http://www.montypythonsspamalot.com/
> >> http://www.shnsf.com/shows/show.asp?key=18&subkey=947
> >
> > I'm interested. Do we have a datetime in mind?
> >
> > -Eddy
> > I don't see any group pricing in their website...   :(
>
> Will there be a cheese shop and some dead parrots involved?  If so,
> I'm *totally* in!
>
> -jj
>
> --
> In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
> with great love. -- Mother Teresa
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/b81ed4bc/attachment.htm>

From wescpy at gmail.com  Sat May 30 01:30:26 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:30:26 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905291630w44161177ub900ff1a97a4a704@mail.gmail.com>

> M.I.T. has apparently made the historic
> decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using Python instead of
> Scheme!

i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the underlying
robotics library is in Python, not purely just a "language decision."
even so, Python is a good language to learn if you've done little or
no programming (making it your first), or even a lot of programming.


> http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03

However, the feeling that this blogger felt when discussing it with
Sussman himself (near the end) seemed pretty positive:

"[He] did say that starting off with python makes an undergraduate?s
initial experiences maximally productive in the current environment.
To that, I suggested that that dynamic makes it far easier to ?hook?
undergrads on ?computer science? and programming, and retaining
people?s interest and attracting people to the field(s) is a good
thing in general."

his sentiment jives with a talk that jeffrey elkner gave long ago (see
http://oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/frank/elkner_0300.html and
http://www.elkner.net/jeff/pyYHS/year01/pyYHS.html) on how he made a
change to his 2-year high school C++ course preparing his students for
the Computer Science Advanced Placement exam by replacing the 1st year
with Python. he noticed more enthusiasm from the students, a higher
retention rate (especially female students), and students were better
able to cope with learning C++ in the 2nd year.


> I wonder if this means that they'll be switching from SICP to Wesley's book?

thanks for the flattery, but i think it would be somewhat difficult to
"port" the bok from Scheme to Python given they're teaching the
concepts of programming in it. someone's actually tried to port the
code -- see http://www.codepoetics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Topics:SICP_in_other_languages:Python:Chapter_1
-- but to be honest, i have to say it looks pretty ugly (and notably
unPythonic). they're coding Scheme using Python syntax (much like the
way Java programmers do the same
[http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html]).

i think the market for books that fall into the introductions to
computing or programming concepts
 category(ies) is growing. i'm seeing more and more absolute newbie
books in addition to some collegiate-level books, pioneered recently
with Zelle's 2003 title. it would be great to see another pure CS one
that is as effective as SICP.

cheers,
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Sat May 30 01:37:25 2009
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W1598408FA6CC1989D897AFA0510@phx.gbl>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com> 
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com> 
	<BAY111-W1598408FA6CC1989D897AFA0510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W24F7CDCD18F91C40CF3624A0510@phx.gbl>



Can anyone reply to this?

From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com
To: knupp at well.com; baypiggies at python.org
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:38:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python








One word in favor of Scheme as a teaching tool for the functional code paradigm
(not as an actual development platform) is that it is nearly impossible to *not*
write functional code. It's a straitjacket.

How would you (automatically) enforce that in Python to teach the programmer?

Is there a lint ruleset for "bad" procedural practices? or Eclipse plugin?

Stephen

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/3952aba6/attachment-0001.htm>

From jjinux at gmail.com  Sat May 30 01:50:09 2009
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:50:09 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580905291630w44161177ub900ff1a97a4a704@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<78b3a9580905291630w44161177ub900ff1a97a4a704@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90905291650u2abfcb7fx92845f1159f6f68d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:30 PM, wesley chun <wescpy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> M.I.T. has apparently made the historic
>> decision to teach their introductory 6.001 course using Python instead of
>> Scheme!
>
> i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the underlying
> robotics library is in Python, not purely just a "language decision."
> even so, Python is a good language to learn if you've done little or
> no programming (making it your first), or even a lot of programming.
>
>
>> http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03
>
> However, the feeling that this blogger felt when discussing it with
> Sussman himself (near the end) seemed pretty positive:
>
> "[He] did say that starting off with python makes an undergraduate?s
> initial experiences maximally productive in the current environment.
> To that, I suggested that that dynamic makes it far easier to ?hook?
> undergrads on ?computer science? and programming, and retaining
> people?s interest and attracting people to the field(s) is a good
> thing in general."
>
> his sentiment jives with a talk that jeffrey elkner gave long ago (see
> http://oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/frank/elkner_0300.html and
> http://www.elkner.net/jeff/pyYHS/year01/pyYHS.html) on how he made a
> change to his 2-year high school C++ course preparing his students for
> the Computer Science Advanced Placement exam by replacing the 1st year
> with Python. he noticed more enthusiasm from the students, a higher
> retention rate (especially female students), and students were better
> able to cope with learning C++ in the 2nd year.
>
>
>> I wonder if this means that they'll be switching from SICP to Wesley's book?
>
> thanks for the flattery, but i think it would be somewhat difficult to
> "port" the bok from Scheme to Python given they're teaching the
> concepts of programming in it. someone's actually tried to port the
> code -- see http://www.codepoetics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Topics:SICP_in_other_languages:Python:Chapter_1
> -- but to be honest, i have to say it looks pretty ugly (and notably
> unPythonic). they're coding Scheme using Python syntax (much like the
> way Java programmers do the same
> [http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html]).
>
> i think the market for books that fall into the introductions to
> computing or programming concepts
> ?category(ies) is growing. i'm seeing more and more absolute newbie
> books in addition to some collegiate-level books, pioneered recently
> with Zelle's 2003 title. it would be great to see another pure CS one
> that is as effective as SICP.

Since we're on the subject of SICP, I'd like to mention the fact that
a lot of people are calling "Concepts, Techniques, and Models of
Computer Programming" a successor to SICP.  Alex Martelli recommended
it to me, and I'm going through it right now.  It's *huge*, so it'll
probably take me a year or more, but I'm absolutely *loving it*.  It's
based on this programming language called Oz.  I've written a bit
about my experiences so far here:
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/search?q=oz

Ok, sorry for going so far off topic ;)

Best Regards,
-jj

-- 
In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things
with great love. -- Mother Teresa
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Sat May 30 02:00:12 2009
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:00:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

Back in my days the language was Pascal. Anyone remember the Pascal poster?

http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg

Of course that was before Python is born.

Wai Yip


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat May 30 02:05:53 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:05:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009, Tung Wai Yip wrote:
>
> Back in my days the language was Pascal. Anyone remember the Pascal poster?
>
> http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg
>
> Of course that was before Python is born.

When I took AP Computer Science in high school, it was Pascal.  Now it's
Java, and I fear for the future of our profession.

Not sure whether I've seen that poster, though -- it still hasn't
finished loading, that's an incredibly slow site.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From wescpy at gmail.com  Sat May 30 02:22:37 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:22:37 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905291722t10d8e04t59292f5007dc7004@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 29, 2009, Tung Wai Yip wrote:
>>
>> Back in my days the language was Pascal.

when i went to Cal several decades ago, it was before Scheme and C
(then Java)... we used Logo and Pascal!

>> Anyone remember the Pascal poster?
>> http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg
> Not sure whether I've seen that poster, though -- it still hasn't
> finished loading, that's an incredibly slow site.

that site *is* slow. if u can't wait and at least want to see a preview of it:

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:_mQaEBAr2WgsNM:http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg

-wesley

From d_berthelot at yahoo.com  Sat May 30 02:22:00 2009
From: d_berthelot at yahoo.com (David Berthelot)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
Message-ID: <298476.74371.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


I also learnt Pascal in university (in France) !
But about the pascal poster, the site is incredibly slow for me too. 
It's probably connected to an 11K dial-up modem, prehistoric speed for a prehistoric language ;)



----- Original Message ----
From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
To: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:05:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python

On Fri, May 29, 2009, Tung Wai Yip wrote:
>
> Back in my days the language was Pascal. Anyone remember the Pascal poster?
>
> http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg
>
> Of course that was before Python is born.

When I took AP Computer Science in high school, it was Pascal.  Now it's
Java, and I fear for the future of our profession.

Not sure whether I've seen that poster, though -- it still hasn't
finished loading, that's an incredibly slow site.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim
_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



      

From keith at dartworks.biz  Sat May 30 02:32:54 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:32:54 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
Message-ID: <211ACF7F-38CE-4ECF-99DD-D32224ED69F0@dartworks.biz>

On May 29, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Aahz wrote:

> When I took AP Computer Science in high school, it was Pascal.  Now  
> it's
> Java, and I fear for the future of our profession.

For me it was opcodes of an HP programmable "calculator" (big as a PC)  
in Jr. High. I taught myself after finding it in the corner of the  
math classroom, along with the manuals. You had to program it by  
punching the codes as holes into paper cards and feeding them into a  
reader. But I thought it was way cool that I could make this machine  
do my math homework for me. ;-) Then on to BASIC on the PDP-11 using  
the school's terminal. Then Pascal after discovering that BASIC really  
sucked.  Some 6502/6809/Z-80 assembler in there somewhere. Where I  
went to school there were no classes for this, so I learned to teach  
myself everything and have been doing so ever since.



From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Sat May 30 02:58:02 2009
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <298476.74371.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
	<298476.74371.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <op.uupwy0aaoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>

Try this one. There is not enough detail to make out the individual  
letter. But it loads fairly quick.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83125&d=1187842702

Wai Yip

>
> I also learnt Pascal in university (in France) !
> But about the pascal poster, the site is incredibly slow for me too.
> It's probably connected to an 11K dial-up modem, prehistoric speed for a  
> prehistoric language ;)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
> To: Baypiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:05:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2009, Tung Wai Yip wrote:
>>
>> Back in my days the language was Pascal. Anyone remember the Pascal  
>> poster?
>>
>> http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg
>>
>> Of course that was before Python is born.
>
> When I took AP Computer Science in high school, it was Pascal.  Now it's
> Java, and I fear for the future of our profession.
>
> Not sure whether I've seen that poster, though -- it still hasn't
> finished loading, that's an incredibly slow site.



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From keith at dartworks.biz  Sat May 30 03:17:17 2009
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 18:17:17 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <op.uupwy0aaoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
	<298476.74371.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<op.uupwy0aaoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C1065B46-54C6-4F02-9B94-641FA5AED22F@dartworks.biz>


On May 29, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Tung Wai Yip wrote:

> Try this one. There is not enough detail to make out the individual  
> letter. But it loads fairly quick.
>
> http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php? 
> attachmentid=83125&d=1187842702

No, no, this one. ;-)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Turbo_pascal_30_cover.jpg



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat May 30 04:07:12 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 19:07:12 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <C1065B46-54C6-4F02-9B94-641FA5AED22F@dartworks.biz>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
	<298476.74371.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<op.uupwy0aaoiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<C1065B46-54C6-4F02-9B94-641FA5AED22F@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <20090530020712.GA25104@panix.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009, Keith Dart wrote:
>
> No, no, this one. ;-)
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Turbo_pascal_30_cover.jpg

Heh, I wonder if my parents still have the TP 2.0 for CP/M manual....
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sat May 30 06:14:34 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 21:14:34 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies gig at Symantec
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>

We had problems getting into Symantec last night, not to mention last month.

I've emailed my contact there and notified them. It was just a simple oversight.
Symantec apologized and said they will notify the new security guard next month.
(I may ping them just in case)

Jim asked me  "What happens after September?" because our original
agreement with Symantec was only up until September. Symantec probably
wanted to see that we are good tenants before granting us use forever.

Symantec said we can continue using Vcafe even after September, so we
still have a home.

I've also asked if they would have their facilities person show me how
to turn the darn projector off, so we don't have to keep unplugging
it. ;-)

From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com  Sat May 30 07:27:56 2009
From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:27:56 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies gig at Symantec
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbf2758a0905292227m725fc3b6g173fefd225f7d7de@mail.gmail.com>

> Symantec said we can continue using Vcafe even after September, so we
> still have a home.

That's great news Tony.  Thank you very much.

--
Daryl


On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We had problems getting into Symantec last night, not to mention last month.
>
> I've emailed my contact there and notified them. It was just a simple oversight.
> Symantec apologized and said they will notify the new security guard next month.
> (I may ping them just in case)
>
> Jim asked me ?"What happens after September?" because our original
> agreement with Symantec was only up until September. Symantec probably
> wanted to see that we are good tenants before granting us use forever.
>
> Symantec said we can continue using Vcafe even after September, so we
> still have a home.
>
> I've also asked if they would have their facilities person show me how
> to turn the darn projector off, so we don't have to keep unplugging
> it. ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat May 30 07:32:33 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:32:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies gig at Symantec
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93371A25-9E3D-4DCD-974C-88775AB4DF16@glenjarvis.com>

> I've also asked if they would have their facilities person show me how
> to turn the darn projector off, so we don't have to keep unplugging
> it. ;-)

If I've never said this, Tony, thank you *very* much. You really  
stepped up to the plate getting us a place -- even though you don't  
work at Symantec. It's great for us to have a home! :)

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090529/e22ce041/attachment.htm>

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Sat May 30 07:38:17 2009
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:38:17 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies gig at Symantec
In-Reply-To: <93371A25-9E3D-4DCD-974C-88775AB4DF16@glenjarvis.com>
References: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
	<93371A25-9E3D-4DCD-974C-88775AB4DF16@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0905292238l4830e21cs8211f31fe2092667@mail.gmail.com>

> If I've never said this, Tony, thank you *very* much. You really stepped up
> to the plate getting us a place -- even though you don't work at Symantec.

Thanks- but really, It was nothing more than a few lucky emails- literally.

From wescpy at gmail.com  Sat May 30 09:53:21 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:53:21 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPiggies gig at Symantec
In-Reply-To: <93371A25-9E3D-4DCD-974C-88775AB4DF16@glenjarvis.com>
References: <8249c4ac0905292114i34738c13u80c5db0bbe80fe42@mail.gmail.com>
	<93371A25-9E3D-4DCD-974C-88775AB4DF16@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905300053l2eea3894p784b98f381046ce1@mail.gmail.com>

+1

> If I've never said this, Tony, thank you *very* much. You really stepped up
> to the plate getting us a place -- even though you don't work at Symantec.
> It's great for us to have a home! :)

From wescpy at gmail.com  Sat May 30 10:32:13 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 01:32:13 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] My PyCon 2009 notes
In-Reply-To: <fbf2758a0905291037m357abd25g1ec20211a16f66fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbf2758a0905291037m357abd25g1ec20211a16f66fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580905300132y64672e25rab359312f7fb40e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Daryl Spitzer <daryl.spitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> You'll find my notes on David Beazley's A Curious Course on Coroutines
> and Concurrency tutorial at
> http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/curious-course-on-coroutines-and.html,
> and my notes on Steve Holden?s Python 401: Some Advanced Topics
> tutorial at http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/python-401-some-advanced-topics.html.
>
> My notes on Friday, March 27th (the first "core" day of the conference) are at
> http://pypap.blogspot.com/2009/04/pycon-2009-notes-march-27th.html


similarly, if anyone wants a PDF of my presentation last nite, pls
drop me a private msg.

thanks,
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Python Web Development with Django", Addison Wesley, (c) 2009
http://withdjango.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com

From roderick at sanfransystems.com  Sat May 30 18:09:06 2009
From: roderick at sanfransystems.com (Roderick Llewellyn)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:09:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
Message-ID: <8F9D8AC2EE5B4BCEAD4A4DDD4C05261C@orion>

When I was at MIT, the most popular language was probably PL/1. This was a typically "ibmic" language, it did it all. Was it a scientific language? Was it a business language? Was it a string-processing language? Yes.
Assembly languages were also popular. There were three main computing facilities: Multics, PDP/10 used in AI type research, and IBM mainframes. I wrote a lot of PL/1 on Multics, and co-authored the Multics APL system sold by Honeywell. APL was also popular. I wrote many thousands of lines of IBM assembly language. On the PDP-10s of course Lisp, as well as its assembler, was widely used. I don't think course 6.001 was around when I was there; MIT didn't really have an introductory programming course. They assumed you already knew how to program. A major early CS course was Donovan's 6.251 on operating systems which made use of IBM360 assembler and PL/1.
My first job after graduation was with Digital Equipment Corp (ironic because I hadn't used the DEC equipment while at MIT). Everything there, from OSes to text editors to newspaper typesetting systems, was written in assembly language. I was in a group that tried to bring "structured programming" concepts to DEC. There was a lot of pushback from engineers who liked the efficiency of assembler. A typical programming situation was that there was a routine that people used, call it X. Now to save some memory, code Y would not call X, it would directly jump to X (i.e., w/o saving a return address on the stack), knowing that routine X would jump back to Y when done. Or sometimes the return address was put in a register. (This was also common on IBM mainframes, in which there was an instruction BALR R1,R2 which would jump to the address held in register R2 while storing the address of the next instruction following the BALR in register R1). Later on Z would be written and would want to call X, so now the code would need modifying to use the stack for saving return addresses. But nobody could easily find all the places to fix up, and bugs accumulated.... I saw one piece of code that pushed 10 or so extra copies of the return address just in case!

By the way it was fun meeting everybody Thursday nite, jj, Aaron, Glen, Daryl, Wesley, Vicky, etc. I hope to see you all again soon.
- Roderick Llewellyn
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090530/b87ad6cf/attachment.htm>

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat May 30 19:56:07 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:56:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Spamalot/Next BayPIGgies meeting date
Message-ID: <EAE75948-F998-4BE8-9562-21256D553A8D@glenjarvis.com>

I intentionally didn't organize the date for Spamalot so I could get a  
list of interested people first. I want to make certain we don't pick  
a date that several people who are interested in attending can't make.

I have a list of interested people now. We are planning on a Thursday  
(same time of the week as BayPIGgies). We're not going immediately  
because immediate seats are sold out.

I'm planning one of these days:
a) Thr, 4-June
b) Thr, 11-June
c) Thr, 18-June
d) Thr, 25-June

Jim, which one of the above is our next BayPIGgies, so I don't  
schedule on the same night.

If you're still interested in Spamalot, please send me an email. Here  
are ticket prices for Thursday evenings:

Side Balcony $30.00
Balcony $40.00
Mezzanine $70.00
Orchestra/Loge $70.00

There has not yet been any discussion on if we split up (so we can  
choose prices we're happier with on price or location), but meet back  
up at intermission. We can also arrange a time before/after for  
socializing.

Cheers,


Glen
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

'You're a looney'




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090530/8fff5ee5/attachment.htm>

From annaraven at gmail.com  Sat May 30 21:10:33 2009
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Spamalot/Next BayPIGgies meeting date
In-Reply-To: <EAE75948-F998-4BE8-9562-21256D553A8D@glenjarvis.com>
References: <EAE75948-F998-4BE8-9562-21256D553A8D@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610905301210v1e24db5bqcd31431c0ed2ec55@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> I intentionally didn't organize the date for Spamalot so I could get a list
> of interested people first.

And I was waiting to express interest until I saw a date. Good thing
someone broke thru the deadlock... ;-)

> We are planning on a Thursday (same
> time of the week as BayPIGgies).

Oh. Isn't this up in SF though? We don't go to SF on weeknights. Just
not interested in fighting rushhour traffic (or riding caltrain/bart
forever) and then getting home way late afterwards. Oh well.

If anyone is interested in getting a group on a weekend instead, post
that please.

-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
I am the mother of all things and all things shall wear a sweater!

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Sat May 30 21:55:06 2009
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:55:06 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Spamalot/Next BayPIGgies meeting date
In-Reply-To: <cb361a610905301210v1e24db5bqcd31431c0ed2ec55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EAE75948-F998-4BE8-9562-21256D553A8D@glenjarvis.com>
	<cb361a610905301210v1e24db5bqcd31431c0ed2ec55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <799C48C3-E76F-4A20-A9E8-BFA7FA7B7BB9@glenjarvis.com>

>> We are planning on a Thursday (same
>> time of the week as BayPIGgies).
>
> Oh. Isn't this up in SF though? We don't go to SF on weeknights. Just
> not interested in fighting rushhour traffic (or riding caltrain/bart
> forever) and then getting home way late afterwards. Oh well.
>
> If anyone is interested in getting a group on a weekend instead, post
> that please.

Anna, I'm sorry. I'm trying to avoid this fragmentation so it can be  
more of a group event. If we knew who was interested, there could be  
less cross talk and we'd have a better probabilistic chance of finding  
a time that would suit everyone's needs. More could be done off-list  
so not to bother those less interested in Spamalot. One Thursday  
evening is our first suggestion, but we could try to accommodate your  
needs better. However, a weekend will probably be much less likely/ 
easy to accommodate because of the increase in price:

Fri & Sat eves at 8pm
Sat & Sun mats at 2pm
Orchestra/Loge $99.00
Mezzanine $99.00
Balcony $50.00

And, I know cost is a factor for some of us.

Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis
--
glen at glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090530/f43e14b8/attachment-0001.htm>

From aleax at google.com  Sun May 31 01:29:29 2009
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 16:29:29 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] M.I.T. to drop Scheme in favor of Python
In-Reply-To: <211ACF7F-38CE-4ECF-99DD-D32224ED69F0@dartworks.biz>
References: <B6D58CD1-C49D-47B6-94DF-28DAD982DA36@glenjarvis.com>
	<e337009b0904060920l6e47d01bu40673e3e76294008@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090406163124.GA19981@panix.com>
	<D3B9BA46-CD59-4998-A4DE-08245DB079A5@well.com>
	<c41f67b90905291607s73f76b92ic881f130b2276adc@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.uupuahl3oiuain@smtp.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20090530000553.GA21451@panix.com>
	<211ACF7F-38CE-4ECF-99DD-D32224ED69F0@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0905301629o2264346eid8b4323ac929053a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> On May 29, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Aahz wrote:
>
>> When I took AP Computer Science in high school, it was Pascal. ?Now it's
>> Java, and I fear for the future of our profession.
>
> For me it was opcodes of an HP programmable "calculator" (big as a PC) in

Same here (except that just-introduced HP-97 was my
high-school-graduation present...) -- that's how I wrote my first-ever
programs "that were some use" in the mid-70's, in HP RPN. A dusty old
LISP 1.5 manual found at a garage sale had been my intro (quite a bit
earlier) but with that one I was limited to "playing the LISP runtime"
with pencil and paper; I haunted the few Italian Apple-II resellers
that would let me get my hands on a keyboard to try out their Basic;
also taught myself Fortran (from old reference manuals, like
everything else) and as a freshman in college got a TA to take pity on
me and (against regulations) give me some of the magical job-control
punched cards that would let me run a real Fortran program on the
mainframe (as long as it had no syntax errors... I didn't get enough
mainframe time to run it twice... it ran the first time and I still
have the printout of conditional probabilities of suit distributions
in bridge that I made it compute...!-).

The practical inaccessibility of computers for programming when I was
in my teens may have been why I turned to hacking on electronic
circuitry instead (and went for EE, not CS, in college) -- even though
I've always been pretty useless with my hands, and burned more
transistors with my soldering iron than I've ever manager to place
into a working circuit, at least THAT was something I could _DO_,
rather than mostly fantasize about;-).


Alex

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun May 31 20:06:07 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:06:07 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Contract: short-term Python/C/XML
Message-ID: <20090531180607.GA8759@panix.com>

I've gotten a lead on a good job (though I understand the pay won't be
highly remunerative up-front, part of your "pay" is getting public
acknowledgment for Open Source work), but the person needing help doesn't
have time to sift through lots of resumes.  I've offered to forward
resumes from people I can personally vouch for, so feel free to contact
me off-list if you're interested and I know you.

You absolutely need to be comfortable with both Python and C extension
programming (the latter is why I'm not doing this), and XML knowledge is
strongly preferred.  Also good is general web server knowledge.

If you know Uche Ogbuji, you can get in touch with him directly.  (I'm
not posting his e-mail address to cut down on spam.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

my-python-code-runs-5x-faster-this-month-thanks-to-dumping-$2K-
    on-a-new-machine-ly y'rs  - tim

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sun May 31 20:14:53 2009
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:14:53 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] [JOB][Recruiter] FBI looking for 3 Plonistas with Top
	Secret Clearance
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0905311114k24c3509ei53c8bdb3cfb2b91@mail.gmail.com>

OK I'd love to take this job but you have to have existing Top Secret
Clearance

If you are a strong python coder with a decent amount of Plone experience
(and the required clearance) this might be a good project for you. It's for
5 years and you'd have to relocate to DC.

http://zpugdc.org/Members/Flintian/desperate-for-plone-candidates-with-an-active-top-secret-clearance-1

(the guy that posted this IS a recruiter)

Hate to lose any of our BAYpiggies to DC but this seems like a great
opportunity.

Donna 'SnowWrite" Snow
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090531/e6b1a22d/attachment.htm>

From roderick at sanfransystems.com  Sun May 31 23:32:22 2009
From: roderick at sanfransystems.com (Roderick Llewellyn)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Baypiggies] Spamalot/Next BayPIGgies meeting date
Message-ID: <5C4B64FF6595446E878E6833CDEF4756@orion>

Hi All, I would love to attend Spamalot. I live in San Francisco so transportation is easy for me. I would want to save money so a weeknite would be better. - Rod Llewellyn
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20090531/1ce11c7b/attachment.htm>