From slash at dotnetslash.net Mon Oct 20 18:11:22 2003 From: slash at dotnetslash.net (Mark W. Alexander) Date: Mon Oct 20 18:11:26 2003 Subject: [Catalog-sig] PEP 242 & Distutils2 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201710540.15448@dotnetslash.net> There's some issues with the PEP 242 metadata and the Distutils2 Wiki discussion on REQUIRES and PROVIDES. Here's some thoughts, in the hope that we can get these in sync. First, I think it's very important to provide for a single source package to produce multiple binary packages. Marc's Egenix package is the example that comes to mind, but I also have some internal packages with the same requirement. He's obviously jumped through a lot of loops. Requiring extending 12 Distutils classes with 1600+ lines of code and mix-ins is not exactly going to entice people to provide Distutils setup scripts for their more complex projects. The REQUIRES and PROVIDES metadata information is more properly associated with binary packages than with source packages, and by extension, looking through PEP 242 each of those items apply to binary packages as well. What I'd like to see in Distutils2 is a way to map package namespaces to binary package targets. he highest level namespace would be like Marc's mxBase package, or -common in the .deb and .rpm worlds. A syntax needs to be provided to specify what binary package lower level namespaces go into. Each binary package needs it's own set of Metadata. Fields that are not specifically provided for a binary package would be inherited from the global defaults; that of the source package. Again, using Egenix as an example, mxDatetime's version is 2.0.3, mxTextTools is 2.1.0, and mxBase is 2.0.4, etc. Any subpackage that does not provide it's own version would inherit the source package's version. This works especially well for non-binary dependent information such as Author, home-page, email, etc. By definition each binary package would be required to have it's own name. This provides for REQUIRES and PROVIDES to be specified at the binary package level, which is where it makes the most sense from an end user/sysadmin/installer level. There's a monkey-wrench, however: Solaris. Solaris (SysV pkgtool*) packages are restricted to a maximum of 9 characters. So for Solaris users, the whole REQUIRES/PROVIDES mechanism falls apart because you can't reference dependencies>9 characters. So in order to support equivalent functionality on Solaris, PEP 242 needs to be extended to include an official "abbreviated-name" that is <= 9 characters. (Or worse, if there's another package tool out there with a smaller name requirement then that would be the maximum abbreviated length. As a sidebar, I assume the catalog will enforce unique names. Without unique names, REQUIRES and PROVIDES are worthless. REQUIRES=X, where there is more than one package X is less than helpful. The catalog would also have to enforce uniqueness on the abbreviated name. Whether names are acquired first-come, first-served or a registration process is required I leave to the catalog people, but it needs to be enforced somehow. mwa *Yes, I _do_ have a bdist_pkgtool (and one for HP) and I'm _trying_ to get permission to contribute them... -- Mark W. Alexander slash@dotnetslash.net From ron at techsoftamerica.com Tue Oct 21 16:10:14 2003 From: ron at techsoftamerica.com (Ron Fritz) Date: Tue Oct 21 16:13:25 2003 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Graphics toolkits Message-ID: <007a01c3980f$56ee6020$e701a8c0@PLUTONIUM> We develop a graphics development toolkit called the HOOPS 3D Application Framework which has a Python interface. I'm interested in the input of folks in this group as to how we would best get the word to the Python development community that this interface exists to a high-level graphics toolkit like HOOPS. In fact, they will be interested to also know that we have a free version of HOOPS for Linux which anyone can download from www.hoops3d.com and use. I don't want this to be an ad, so I won't say more about HOOPS here - but any advice you can give about getting the word out to the Python community would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron Fritz Ron Fritz Tech Soft America 1830 Embarcadero, Suite 103 Oakland, CA 94606 (510) 434.7630 x 201 fax (510)434.7631 www.hoops3d.com From slash at dotnetslash.net Tue Oct 21 17:55:06 2003 From: slash at dotnetslash.net (Mark W. Alexander) Date: Tue Oct 21 17:55:34 2003 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Graphics toolkits In-Reply-To: <007a01c3980f$56ee6020$e701a8c0@PLUTONIUM> References: <007a01c3980f$56ee6020$e701a8c0@PLUTONIUM> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211749510.20321@dotnetslash.net> http://www.freshmeat.net and http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ p.s. You need a Linux hsf browser plugin if you want to entice Linux developers. I can't view your demos, so why should I care about your product? (Not trying to be rude, just presenting a pragmatic issue.) mwa -- Mark W. Alexander slash@dotnetslash.net On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ron Fritz wrote: > > We develop a graphics development toolkit called the HOOPS 3D > Application Framework which has a Python interface. I'm interested in > the input of folks in this group as to how we would best get the word to > the Python development community that this interface exists to a > high-level graphics toolkit like HOOPS. In fact, they will be interested > to also know that we have a free version of HOOPS for Linux which anyone > can download from www.hoops3d.com and use. > > I don't want this to be an ad, so I won't say more about HOOPS here - > but any advice you can give about getting the word out to the Python > community would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Ron Fritz > > > Ron Fritz > Tech Soft America > > 1830 Embarcadero, Suite 103 > Oakland, CA 94606 > (510) 434.7630 x 201 > fax (510)434.7631 > www.hoops3d.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Catalog-sig mailing list > Catalog-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig > From ron at techsoftamerica.com Tue Oct 21 17:56:56 2003 From: ron at techsoftamerica.com (Ron Fritz) Date: Tue Oct 21 18:00:37 2003 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Graphics toolkits In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211749510.20321@dotnetslash.net> Message-ID: <00b601c3981e$43a2a800$e701a8c0@PLUTONIUM> Thanks. Good point about the Linux plug-in. As a tools provider we decided we couldn't build any and all type of sample applications, so we made a free viewer available on Linux that accomplishes the same thing. It's built using HOOPS and Qt for the UI: http://www.hoops3d.com/downloads/refapps/ref_apps.htm Thanks again. Ron -----Original Message----- From: Mark W. Alexander [mailto:slash@dotnetslash.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:55 PM To: Ron Fritz Cc: catalog-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Catalog-sig] Graphics toolkits http://www.freshmeat.net and http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ p.s. You need a Linux hsf browser plugin if you want to entice Linux developers. I can't view your demos, so why should I care about your product? (Not trying to be rude, just presenting a pragmatic issue.) mwa -- Mark W. Alexander slash@dotnetslash.net On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ron Fritz wrote: > > We develop a graphics development toolkit called the HOOPS 3D > Application Framework which has a Python interface. I'm interested in > the input of folks in this group as to how we would best get the word > to the Python development community that this interface exists to a > high-level graphics toolkit like HOOPS. In fact, they will be > interested to also know that we have a free version of HOOPS for Linux > which anyone can download from www.hoops3d.com and use. > > I don't want this to be an ad, so I won't say more about HOOPS here - > but any advice you can give about getting the word out to the Python > community would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Ron Fritz > > > Ron Fritz > Tech Soft America > > 1830 Embarcadero, Suite 103 > Oakland, CA 94606 > (510) 434.7630 x 201 > fax (510)434.7631 > www.hoops3d.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Catalog-sig mailing list > Catalog-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig > From amk at amk.ca Wed Oct 22 09:33:43 2003 From: amk at amk.ca (amk@amk.ca) Date: Wed Oct 22 09:33:48 2003 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Graphics toolkits In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211749510.20321@dotnetslash.net> References: <007a01c3980f$56ee6020$e701a8c0@PLUTONIUM> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211749510.20321@dotnetslash.net> Message-ID: <20031022133343.GA1709@rogue.amk.ca> On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Mark W. Alexander wrote: > http://www.freshmeat.net and http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ Also www.python.org/pypi but it's unlikely to bring in many people for such a specialized application. Having some sample code on the web site would be a good idea, especially if you can present short bits of Python code that do something impressive. --amk