From richardjones at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 1 08:10:06 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri Apr 1 08:10:11 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI's new name
Message-ID: <200504011610.06091.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/PyPI_needs_a_new_name
argh :)
I'll try to find some time to collate an actual list of the suggestions -
unless someone else beats me to it.
Richard
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From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Apr 1 08:25:19 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri Apr 1 08:24:54 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI's new name
In-Reply-To: <200504011610.06091.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504011610.06091.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <424CE94F.9030109@colorstudy.com>
Richard Jones wrote:
> http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/PyPI_needs_a_new_name
I like Ministry of Python Packages (MOPP). It's pronounceable, has good
keywords, an acronym that's largely unused, and only sounds silly if you
choose to expand the acronym. Personally -- and you can ignore me
because there can be no consensus on these issues -- that's the only one
I really liked besides eggs.python.org (which I also like).
--
Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org
From bob at redivi.com Fri Apr 1 08:33:07 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri Apr 1 14:25:45 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI's new name
In-Reply-To: <424CE94F.9030109@colorstudy.com>
References: <200504011610.06091.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<424CE94F.9030109@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <61d826b7fd230008cb831e052e3c0d37@redivi.com>
On Apr 1, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Richard Jones wrote:
>> http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/PyPI_needs_a_new_name
>
> I like Ministry of Python Packages (MOPP). It's pronounceable, has
> good keywords, an acronym that's largely unused, and only sounds silly
> if you choose to expand the acronym. Personally -- and you can ignore
> me because there can be no consensus on these issues -- that's the
> only one I really liked besides eggs.python.org (which I also like).
I like eggs, MOPP, and Pylon -- not necessarily in that order.
-bob
From bob at redivi.com Fri Apr 1 08:35:43 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri Apr 1 14:25:46 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI's new name
In-Reply-To: <61d826b7fd230008cb831e052e3c0d37@redivi.com>
References: <200504011610.06091.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<424CE94F.9030109@colorstudy.com>
<61d826b7fd230008cb831e052e3c0d37@redivi.com>
Message-ID: <c6e471297e1d9ff12d54881b08feb6ad@redivi.com>
On Apr 1, 2005, at 1:33 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:
>
>> Richard Jones wrote:
>>> http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/PyPI_needs_a_new_name
>>
>> I like Ministry of Python Packages (MOPP). It's pronounceable, has
>> good keywords, an acronym that's largely unused, and only sounds
>> silly if you choose to expand the acronym. Personally -- and you can
>> ignore me because there can be no consensus on these issues -- that's
>> the only one I really liked besides eggs.python.org (which I also
>> like).
>
> I like eggs, MOPP, and Pylon -- not necessarily in that order.
On further inspection, Pylon was used as a name for an eiffel standard
library <http://www.nenie.org/eiffel/pylon/>, but it's been dead since
Jan 1998 (replaced by Gobo)... so I guess that's not a problem.
-bob
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Mon Apr 4 07:37:40 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon Apr 4 07:37:45 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI renaming options
Message-ID: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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[This is also posted to
http://www.mechanicalcat.net/richard/log/Python/PyPI_renaming_options]
Thanks everyone who's thrown their ideas into the mix. Here's the list of
potential names for PyPI, drawn from a number of sources, limited to only
those which had "seconds":
- - PyPI
- - Shrubbery
- - MOPP (Ministry of Python Packages)
- - Eggs
- - Eggcrate
- - Pylon
- - PyCAN
- - Vault
Personally, I'd rather not go with eggs or eggcrate, as that's only one of the
formats of binary distribution (even if it might take over the Python binary
distribution world). Pylon is just a little too obscure for me. PyPI is
definitely out, given some feedback about potential misunderstandings ;). A
number of us really don't like anything resembling CPAN. So the list really
is:
- - Shrubbery
- - MOPP (Ministry of Python Packages)
- - Vault
Of those three, I'm tied between the last two. Anyone want to help me? Note
that I'm not interested in new suggestions at this point :)
I've contacted the Vaults of Parnassus people regarding all this to garner
their input.
Richard
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From ianb at colorstudy.com Mon Apr 4 07:49:46 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon Apr 4 07:49:49 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI renaming options
In-Reply-To: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <4250D57A.7000707@colorstudy.com>
Richard Jones wrote:
> - - Shrubbery
> - - MOPP (Ministry of Python Packages)
> - - Vault
"Shrubbery" doesn't mean anything to me, and I'd have a hard time using
it in a sentence. "You can find that in the Shrubbery." I guess I
could say "Python Shrubbery", but that hardly sounds like a *place*. So
I don't see a whole lot going for that one.
Vault sounds like a place, but isn't distinctive enough alone -- I'd
have to call it the "Python Vault". vault.python.org indicates this as
well, of course. This is a fine, straight-forward term, which makes its
intent quite clear.
But I do like MOPP, which is somewhere in between the two. It's a
distinctive term -- the only Google results for "mopp" are medical,
which we'd quickly outrank. Though I don't know exactly how I'd use it
in a sentence. "You can find that in the MOPP"? That doesn't sound
quite right to me... but maybe it just takes time to become familiar. I
can almost imagine using "Ministry" more often, like "I notice you
haven't submitted your package to the Ministry, tsk tsk".
--
Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org
From deadwisdom at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 16:21:17 2005
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Mon Apr 4 16:21:22 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI renaming options
In-Reply-To: <4250D57A.7000707@colorstudy.com>
References: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<4250D57A.7000707@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d6050404072144889bff@mail.gmail.com>
> I can almost imagine using "Ministry" more often, like "I notice you
> haven't submitted your package to the Ministry, tsk tsk".
Yes, using 'Ministry' is very good. It sounds both official, and very
monty:pythonesque. It's important to be serious about not taking
ourselves too seriously.
From exarkun at divmod.com Mon Apr 4 19:03:41 2005
From: exarkun at divmod.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon Apr 4 19:03:52 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI renaming options
In-Reply-To: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <20050404170341.13806.828806368.divmod.quotient.44473@ohm>
On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:37:40 +1000, Richard Jones
> [snip]
>
> - - Shrubbery
> - - MOPP (Ministry of Python Packages)
> - - Vault
>
> Of those three, I'm tied between the last two. Anyone want to help me? Note
> that I'm not interested in new suggestions at this point :)
>
> I've contacted the Vaults of Parnassus people regarding all this to garner
> their input.
>
Note also the current existence of <http://www.python.org/pyvault/>.
Personally I'm +1 on MOPP.
Jp
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Thu Apr 7 05:11:01 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu Apr 7 05:11:07 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
Message-ID: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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After polling around for ideas, and looking at the various alternatives,
nothing really grabs me. "PyPI" captures the nature of the beast we've
created well-enough. It's not too silly. It's short. It's in place. I think
I've decided that it'll do.
It really is only *potentially* confusing when you're in the same room as the
PyPy people.
Richard
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From deadwisdom at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 06:01:19 2005
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Thu Apr 7 06:01:23 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
I think I have to raise objection. 'PyPI' might 'do', but we have a
chance to create something that will capture imaginations. As much as
I hate to admit it, it's the name and personality that will incite
discourse and raise interest, only after that will its functionality
shine.
rant = """\
This gets at the heart of my criticism for Python. It's not the
language itself, no we all know Python is glorious. It is the
marketing. Right now Python is that really great Burrito joint down
the street that no one goes to because of its dingy facade. Instead
people go to Chipotle, which in this metaphor is probably Java.
People try Chipotle because of its sexy and clean appearance. Now if
people tried Taco and Burrito Palace #2, they would love it even more.
But alas, all the managers that pick Burritos are afraid.
To me this is the state of Python. People don't understand its full
potential, because they check out the dingy website (even Ruby has a
nicer site), and they hear the names, and they get an image in their
minds that is completely counter to what Python really is.
Now I know I am talking about superficialities here, and as a geek I
understand it's completely against the geek code, but I believe it to
be an important reality of our time.
"""
On Apr 6, 2005 10:11 PM, Richard Jones <richardjones@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> After polling around for ideas, and looking at the various alternatives,
> nothing really grabs me. "PyPI" captures the nature of the beast we've
> created well-enough. It's not too silly. It's short. It's in place. I think
> I've decided that it'll do.
>
> It really is only *potentially* confusing when you're in the same room as the
> PyPy people.
>
> Richard
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Catalog-sig mailing list
> Catalog-sig@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
>
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Thu Apr 7 06:22:56 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu Apr 7 06:23:10 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:01 pm, Brant Harris wrote:
> I think I have to raise objection. 'PyPI' might 'do', but we have a
> chance to create something that will capture imaginations. As much as
> I hate to admit it, it's the name and personality that will incite
> discourse and raise interest, only after that will its functionality
> shine.
I understand your point completely, but frankly none of the suggestions
received thus far shine very brightly. Hence my post.
Richard
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From bob at redivi.com Mon Apr 4 08:00:37 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu Apr 7 13:19:36 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI renaming options
In-Reply-To: <4250D57A.7000707@colorstudy.com>
References: <200504041537.40224.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<4250D57A.7000707@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <43fcb875bc53ad7839868b042b329dcb@redivi.com>
On Apr 4, 2005, at 1:49, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Richard Jones wrote:
>> - - Shrubbery
>> - - MOPP (Ministry of Python Packages)
>> - - Vault
>
> "Shrubbery" doesn't mean anything to me, and I'd have a hard time
> using it in a sentence. "You can find that in the Shrubbery." I
> guess I could say "Python Shrubbery", but that hardly sounds like a
> *place*. So I don't see a whole lot going for that one.
>
> Vault sounds like a place, but isn't distinctive enough alone -- I'd
> have to call it the "Python Vault". vault.python.org indicates this
> as well, of course. This is a fine, straight-forward term, which
> makes its intent quite clear.
>
> But I do like MOPP, which is somewhere in between the two. It's a
> distinctive term -- the only Google results for "mopp" are medical,
> which we'd quickly outrank. Though I don't know exactly how I'd use
> it in a sentence. "You can find that in the MOPP"? That doesn't
> sound quite right to me... but maybe it just takes time to become
> familiar. I can almost imagine using "Ministry" more often, like "I
> notice you haven't submitted your package to the Ministry, tsk tsk".
+1 for MOPP
-bob
From jhylton at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 14:59:13 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Thu Apr 7 14:59:16 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
On Apr 7, 2005 12:22 AM, Richard Jones <richardjones@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> I understand your point completely, but frankly none of the suggestions
> received thus far shine very brightly. Hence my post.
None of the proposals excite me either, but I might come around to
MOPP/Ministry. I don't think I'd object to it. Do other similar
systems have better names? If we had never heard of CPAN, would we be
exicted about that name?
Jeremy
From bray at sent.com Thu Apr 7 15:06:06 2005
From: bray at sent.com (bray@sent.com)
Date: Thu Apr 7 15:06:08 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
>
> It really is only *potentially* confusing when you're in the same room as
> the
> PyPy people.
>
Are telling me this is *not* the PyPy mailing list! Well may I suggest
we rewrite pypi in C, then?
Nah, I have been sitting back. I think the name should change, if
possible. Although it needs to be more descriptive on purpose.... If I
saw 'MOPP' on a link on Python home page, I would not know what this is.
From david.ascher at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 18:32:46 2005
From: david.ascher at gmail.com (David Ascher)
Date: Thu Apr 7 18:32:48 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
I find the discussion depressing in many ways.
How bout just "Python catalog" (hence the mailing list =). Acronyms
are overrated.
--da
From hpk at trillke.net Thu Apr 7 22:48:53 2005
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu Apr 7 22:48:55 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
Hi Richard,
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 13:11 +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> After polling around for ideas, and looking at the various alternatives,
> nothing really grabs me. "PyPI" captures the nature of the beast we've
> created well-enough. It's not too silly. It's short. It's in place. I think
> I've decided that it'll do.
FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit. I recommend
taking the discussion to just the core contributors (e.g. on IRC)
and see if you get somewhere.
> It really is only *potentially* confusing when you're in the
> same room as the PyPy people.
I don't mind getting occasionally confused people and pointing
them to a great project.
Btw, we had some hundred postings on c.l.py before we settled
on the name PyPy. It's a good way to spread the word, though :-)
Another note: it appears that pronouncing pypy/pypi means
"tits" in japanese ... (which we only discovered after the
fact, i swear, it might have changed my opinion).
cheers,
holger
From trentm at ActiveState.com Thu Apr 7 22:51:29 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu Apr 7 22:56:26 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
[holger krekel wrote]
> FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit.
Do the religious overtones of "ministry" not bother people at all?
> Another note: it appears that pronouncing pypy/pypi means
> "tits" in japanese ...
Ruby doesn't have a chance at catching Python then. :)
Trent
--
Trent Mick
TrentM@ActiveState.com
From bray at sent.com Thu Apr 7 22:59:43 2005
From: bray at sent.com (bray@sent.com)
Date: Thu Apr 7 22:59:55 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <1112907583.22388.231373115@webmail.messagingengine.com>
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:51:29 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm@ActiveState.com>
said:
> [holger krekel wrote]
> > FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit.
>
> Do the religious overtones of "ministry" not bother people at all?
>
Reminds me of the death rock: http://www.ministrymusic.org/
From alikins at redhat.com Thu Apr 7 23:06:31 2005
From: alikins at redhat.com (Adrian Likins)
Date: Thu Apr 7 23:11:02 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <20050407210631.GF1458@redhat.com>
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:48:53PM +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 13:11 +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > After polling around for ideas, and looking at the various alternatives,
> > nothing really grabs me. "PyPI" captures the nature of the beast we've
> > created well-enough. It's not too silly. It's short. It's in place. I think
> > I've decided that it'll do.
>
> FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit. I recommend
> taking the discussion to just the core contributors (e.g. on IRC)
> and see if you get somewhere.
>
> > It really is only *potentially* confusing when you're in the
> > same room as the PyPy people.
>
> I don't mind getting occasionally confused people and pointing
> them to a great project.
>
> Btw, we had some hundred postings on c.l.py before we settled
> on the name PyPy. It's a good way to spread the word, though :-)
Seems like it's too late, but how about "pit". As in
a snake pit? "Wheres foobar? It's in the pit".
python installable taxonomy?
python installable things?
Can't think of a good acroymn myself. But not a big fan
of "pypy". But then, I'm somewhat responsible for naming
things like "grubby" and "booty", so what do I know about
naming? ;->
Adrian`
From deadwisdom at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 23:12:37 2005
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Thu Apr 7 23:12:39 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <1112907583.22388.231373115@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
<1112907583.22388.231373115@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d605040714123098fd2@mail.gmail.com>
Those things never occured to me.
Perhaps this will help: http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/silwalk.html
On Apr 7, 2005 3:59 PM, bray@sent.com <bray@sent.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:51:29 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm@ActiveState.com>
> said:
> > [holger krekel wrote]
> > > FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit.
> >
> > Do the religious overtones of "ministry" not bother people at all?
> >
>
> Reminds me of the death rock: http://www.ministrymusic.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Catalog-sig mailing list
> Catalog-sig@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
>
From hpk at trillke.net Thu Apr 7 23:29:58 2005
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu Apr 7 23:30:00 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20050407212958.GH23818@solar.trillke.net>
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 13:51 -0700, Trent Mick wrote:
> [holger krekel wrote]
> > FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit.
>
> Do the religious overtones of "ministry" not bother people at all?
Ah, this connection didn't occur to me probably because
i am not a native speaker.
Anyway, playing a bit with terms of authority is a good
thing IMO. And the python package ministry would be an
authoritative source of python applications. Moreover,
there is quite some preaching going on in open source land,
anyway :-)
holger
From martin at v.loewis.de Thu Apr 7 23:41:46 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu Apr 7 23:41:50 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4255A91A.8080102@v.loewis.de>
Brant Harris wrote:
> Now I know I am talking about superficialities here, and as a geek I
> understand it's completely against the geek code, but I believe it to
> be an important reality of our time.
I'm personally happy with the "publicity" that Python gets. It does
what I want it to do for me - I don't want to impose it on anybody else.
Others feel stronger about marketing, but I don't want to spend the
little time I have on it.
Regards,
Matin
From hpk at trillke.net Thu Apr 7 23:47:49 2005
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu Apr 7 23:47:51 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
Hi David,
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 09:32 -0700, David Ascher wrote:
> I find the discussion depressing in many ways.
Did i miss some of the discussion? At least on catalog-sig
and in the blogs it was going quite ok in my opionion.
But maybe we had different expectations :-)
holger
From david.ascher at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 02:13:50 2005
From: david.ascher at gmail.com (David Ascher)
Date: Fri Apr 8 02:13:54 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
> > I find the discussion depressing in many ways.
>
> Did i miss some of the discussion? At least on catalog-sig
> and in the blogs it was going quite ok in my opionion.
> But maybe we had different expectations :-)
I'm probably just being cranky for lack of sleep. Just ignore me =).
my 2c: silly names are ok as long as they don't appear puerile (I
fought hard against naming a graphics library "PIDDLE", even though I
came across as a curmudgeon). I think the idea of joking around with
religious terms like ministry is a bad idea, because we're not as
funny as John Cleese & friends. Names should be pronouncable without
needing to be taught how to pronounce them. Acronyms aren't required.
Mostly, though, what matters more than names is what the software
does, that the community rallies around it, and that it's useful to
users. The vaults of parnassus got the success it had just because it
was useful. The name was, if anything, IMO, a flaw, but it doesn't
really matter so much in a community like ours.
I guess I was depressed because I was excited to see energy going into
PyPI, and was worried that that energy was being dissipated into
naming discussions, which are most definitely exothermic.
--da
From tripp at perspex.com Fri Apr 8 06:13:35 2005
From: tripp at perspex.com (Tripp Lilley)
Date: Fri Apr 8 06:13:42 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, David Ascher wrote:
> I think the idea of joking around with religious terms like ministry is
> a bad idea, because we're not as funny as John Cleese & friends.
Just for the record, the term "ministry," outside the U.S., has more to do
with administrative functions of government:
http://www.google.com/search?q=ministry
E.g.:
Ministry of Defence (UK, Isreal)
Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Japan, Isreal
Ministry of Culture (Greece)
Ministry of Finance (Japan)
Ministry of Tourism (Egypt)
and so forth.
It's in that spirit that I think MOPP is really strong, and its value as a
reference to the Ministry of Silly Walks sketch is just a side benefit,
really.
+1 on MOPP, from an outsider.
From david.ascher at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 07:16:56 2005
From: david.ascher at gmail.com (David Ascher)
Date: Fri Apr 8 07:17:00 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
Message-ID: <dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
On Apr 7, 2005 9:13 PM, Tripp Lilley <tripp@perspex.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, David Ascher wrote:
>
> > I think the idea of joking around with religious terms like ministry is
> > a bad idea, because we're not as funny as John Cleese & friends.
>
> Just for the record, the term "ministry," outside the U.S., has more to do
> with administrative functions of government:
I'm well aware of that (I'm French =). However, I don't think the US
perspective is insignificant when it comes to PR =).
At least in France, it's also true that ministries bring forth
concepts of inefficiency, bureaucracy, obnoxious power-hungry civil
servants. Not exactly what I'd want associated w/ my software if it
was mine, but whatever. =)
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 8 11:40:29 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri Apr 8 11:40:42 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200504081940.38054.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:13 am, David Ascher wrote:
> I guess I was depressed because I was excited to see energy going into
> PyPI, and was worried that that energy was being dissipated into
> naming discussions, which are most definitely exothermic.
A point to be made here is that all the "hard" work is done -- the meta-data
and file uploads all work. The system's ready to go. It just needs a name.
Richard
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From hpk at trillke.net Fri Apr 8 12:31:18 2005
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri Apr 8 12:31:21 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
<dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050408103118.GR23818@solar.trillke.net>
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 22:16 -0700, David Ascher wrote:
> On Apr 7, 2005 9:13 PM, Tripp Lilley <tripp@perspex.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, David Ascher wrote:
> >
> > > I think the idea of joking around with religious terms like ministry is
> > > a bad idea, because we're not as funny as John Cleese & friends.
> >
> > Just for the record, the term "ministry," outside the U.S., has more to do
> > with administrative functions of government:
>
> I'm well aware of that (I'm French =). However, I don't think the US
> perspective is insignificant when it comes to PR =).
>
> At least in France, it's also true that ministries bring forth
> concepts of inefficiency, bureaucracy, obnoxious power-hungry civil
> servants. Not exactly what I'd want associated w/ my software if it
> was mine, but whatever. =)
Hey, that sounds similar to what we have in germany, with
the addition that they are even plainly evil in some respects
(thinking of the incredible stance the "justice" ministry
takes for software patents against a >90% anti-sw-patents
vote of the national parliament).
Believe it or not, i thought of MOPP bringing back some
positive connotations to the term ...
holger
From slash at dotnetslash.net Fri Apr 8 12:52:27 2005
From: slash at dotnetslash.net (Mark W. Alexander)
Date: Fri Apr 8 12:52:30 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050408103118.GR23818@solar.trillke.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
<dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
<20050408103118.GR23818@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <20050408105227.GB5248@dotnetslash.net>
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 12:31:18PM +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 22:16 -0700, David Ascher wrote:
> > On Apr 7, 2005 9:13 PM, Tripp Lilley <tripp@perspex.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, David Ascher wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think the idea of joking around with religious terms like ministry is
> > > > a bad idea, because we're not as funny as John Cleese & friends.
> > >
> > > Just for the record, the term "ministry," outside the U.S., has more to do
> > > with administrative functions of government:
> >
> > I'm well aware of that (I'm French =). However, I don't think the US
> > perspective is insignificant when it comes to PR =).
> >
> > At least in France, it's also true that ministries bring forth
> > concepts of inefficiency, bureaucracy, obnoxious power-hungry civil
> > servants. Not exactly what I'd want associated w/ my software if it
> > was mine, but whatever. =)
>
> Hey, that sounds similar to what we have in germany, with
> the addition that they are even plainly evil in some respects
> (thinking of the incredible stance the "justice" ministry
> takes for software patents against a >90% anti-sw-patents
> vote of the national parliament).
Oh, OK. +1 on changing all U.S. agency names to "Ministry of ...." then
;)
I liked the "pit" suggestion, but MOPP works for me too. Even with PyPI
being discussed here, I have a hard time reading it as being anything
other than something to do with math. (Could be the residual resentment
of years of coerced advanced math in school.) I can hardly think of
anything worse. Something that makes no sense at all is better than
something that unintentionally confuses.
mwa
--
Mark W. Alexander
slash@dotnetslash.net
The contents of this message authored by Mark W. Alexander are released under
the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial license. Copyright of quoted
materials, if any, are retained by the original author(s).
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/
From bob at redivi.com Fri Apr 8 00:08:17 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri Apr 8 12:56:23 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050407212958.GH23818@solar.trillke.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050407204853.GF23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050407205129.GC24385@ActiveState.com>
<20050407212958.GH23818@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <fe72ce92e6f8c461c96ad621b04916c1@redivi.com>
On Apr 7, 2005, at 2:29 PM, holger krekel wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 13:51 -0700, Trent Mick wrote:
>> [holger krekel wrote]
>>> FWIW, i liked MOPP aka the ministry quite a bit.
>>
>> Do the religious overtones of "ministry" not bother people at all?
>
> Ah, this connection didn't occur to me probably because
> i am not a native speaker.
>
> Anyway, playing a bit with terms of authority is a good
> thing IMO. And the python package ministry would be an
> authoritative source of python applications. Moreover,
> there is quite some preaching going on in open source land,
> anyway :-)
The word Ministry isn't used only for religion, anyway... I usually
think of "Ministry of Defence" -- which many countries seem to have
(the US doesn't, though).
-bob
From tim at pollenation.net Fri Apr 8 13:14:43 2005
From: tim at pollenation.net (Tim Parkin)
Date: Fri Apr 8 13:14:41 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050408105227.GB5248@dotnetslash.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com> <dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com> <20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net> <dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT> <dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com> <20050408103118.GR23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050408105227.GB5248@dotnetslash.net>
Message-ID: <425667A3.4060509@pollenation.net>
Mark W. Alexander wrote:
> I liked the "pit" suggestion, but MOPP works for me too. Even with PyPI
> being discussed here, I have a hard time reading it as being anything
> other than something to do with math.
+1 for pypit (pyrepo?)
Tim
From tripp at perspex.com Fri Apr 8 16:03:21 2005
From: tripp at perspex.com (Tripp Lilley)
Date: Fri Apr 8 16:03:29 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
<dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504081001050.18020@PARCHMENT>
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, David Ascher wrote:
> I'm well aware of that (I'm French =). However, I don't think the US
> perspective is insignificant when it comes to PR =).
Ah, sorry, I jumped to concussions.
> At least in France, it's also true that ministries bring forth
> concepts of inefficiency, bureaucracy, obnoxious power-hungry civil
> servants. Not exactly what I'd want associated w/ my software if it
> was mine, but whatever. =)
That being the case, and since "Bureaus" occupy the same socially reviled
place in the US, I propose a slight modification to the MOPP proposal:
M/BOPP: The Ministry / Bureau of Python Packages
It's also a tribute to Hanson! http://www.hanson.net/
Heh.
From tripp at perspex.com Fri Apr 8 16:06:46 2005
From: tripp at perspex.com (Tripp Lilley)
Date: Fri Apr 8 16:06:54 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <425667A3.4060509@pollenation.net>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
<dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
<20050408103118.GR23818@solar.trillke.net>
<20050408105227.GB5248@dotnetslash.net>
<425667A3.4060509@pollenation.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504081005570.18020@PARCHMENT>
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Tim Parkin wrote:
> +1 for pypit (pyrepo?)
pypo: the python 'pository is where you're 'posed to put packages
From amk at amk.ca Fri Apr 8 16:08:07 2005
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri Apr 8 16:08:47 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0504081001050.18020@PARCHMENT>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<1112879166.21390.231333459@webmail.messagingengine.com>
<dd28fc2f05040709321e22d3e0@mail.gmail.com>
<20050407214749.GK23818@solar.trillke.net>
<dd28fc2f05040717135adbf191@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504080010410.15368@PARCHMENT>
<dd28fc2f05040722165199ca99@mail.gmail.com>
<Pine.CYG.4.58.0504081001050.18020@PARCHMENT>
Message-ID: <20050408140807.GA6938@rogue.amk.ca>
<evil-willow>
Bored, now.
</evil-willow>
+1 for whoever suggested calling it "the catalog" and getting on with our lives.
--amk
From lac at strakt.com Tue Apr 12 17:57:14 2005
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Apr 12 17:57:23 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: Message from Jeremy Hylton <jhylton@gmail.com> of "Thu,
07 Apr 2005 08:59:13 EDT." <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
Laura
In a message of Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:59:13 EDT, Jeremy Hylton writes:
>On Apr 7, 2005 12:22 AM, Richard Jones <richardjones@optushome.com.au> wr
>ote:
>> I understand your point completely, but frankly none of the suggestions
>> received thus far shine very brightly. Hence my post.
>
>None of the proposals excite me either, but I might come around to
>MOPP/Ministry. I don't think I'd object to it. Do other similar
>systems have better names? If we had never heard of CPAN, would we be
>exicted about that name?
>
>Jeremy
>_______________________________________________
>Catalog-sig mailing list
>Catalog-sig@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
From ehs at pobox.com Tue Apr 12 18:49:04 2005
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Tue Apr 12 18:49:07 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <20050412164904.GA9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 05:57:14PM +0200, Laura Creighton wrote:
> I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
> we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
>
> But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
> how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
> free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
You know, it might be even cuter to just call it CPAN. CPAN afterall
stands for the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, and could just as
easily be Comprehensive Python Archive Network.
cpan.python.org
It has a certain ring to it :)
//Ed
From jhylton at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 18:51:13 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Tue Apr 12 18:51:16 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <jhylton@gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/12/05, Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> wrote:
> I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
> we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
>
> But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
> how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
> free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
I have to admit that I don't like PyPan or however you spell it. On
the whole, I'm tired of names that start with Py.
Jeremy
From theller at python.net Tue Apr 12 18:51:18 2005
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue Apr 12 18:54:08 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Re: Perhaps "PyPI" will do
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <y8bo6ird.fsf@python.net>
Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> writes:
> I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
> we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
>
> But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
> how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
> free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
>
> Laura
Feel free to use the name for whatever you want. I doubt anyone except
myself (and that only for testing it out) has ever used this stuff.
Thomas
From alikins at redhat.com Tue Apr 12 18:56:53 2005
From: alikins at redhat.com (Adrian Likins)
Date: Tue Apr 12 19:01:15 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050412164904.GA9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<20050412164904.GA9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <20050412165653.GA22733@redhat.com>
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 11:49:04AM -0500, Ed Summers wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 05:57:14PM +0200, Laura Creighton wrote:
> > I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
> > we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> > manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
> >
> > But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
> > how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
> > free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
>
> You know, it might be even cuter to just call it CPAN. CPAN afterall
> stands for the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, and could just as
> easily be Comprehensive Python Archive Network.
>
> cpan.python.org
>
Or for that matter, just CAN. A can of snakes even sort of
has a meaning.
But I'd prefer something boring and generic over PyPI. "PyPI"
has no meaning to just about anyone. Something like "archive.python.org"
or "depot.python.org" or "library.python.org".
hmm, how about "Repo Of Python, Organized"... REPO... I kind of like that,
simple, descriptive, recursive...
or DEPOT "Depot of Everything Python Organized Thoughtfully"?
Adrian
From ianb at colorstudy.com Tue Apr 12 19:16:26 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue Apr 12 19:18:19 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com> <200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<jhylton@gmail.com> <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com> <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> On 4/12/05, Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> wrote:
>
>>I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute, catchy name
>>we want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
>>manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
>>
>>But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name up, and
>>how many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan seems
>>free, as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
>
>
> I have to admit that I don't like PyPan or however you spell it. On
> the whole, I'm tired of names that start with Py.
While I'd generally agree, in this case it's actually a project *about*
Python, not merely written in Python, so it's more justifiable. Of
course, having python.org in the URL also makes that obvious.
This is, however, turning into one of those bikeshed moments:
http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/faq/16.19.shtml
Is index.python.org the most boring but readable and straight-forward
choice? It's just like PyPI, but "Py" becomes "python.org", and the
second P kind of disapears, and we expand the I... so it's not a choice
at all, just a respelling of the current name ;)
--
Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org
From ehs at pobox.com Tue Apr 12 19:26:12 2005
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Tue Apr 12 19:26:15 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<jhylton@gmail.com> <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:16:26PM -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Is index.python.org the most boring but readable and straight-forward
> choice? It's just like PyPI, but "Py" becomes "python.org", and the
> second P kind of disapears, and we expand the I... so it's not a choice
> at all, just a respelling of the current name ;)
index.python.org +1
as for the bikeshed, i totally agree (but can't it be red)
//Ed
From deadwisdom at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 20:48:22 2005
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Tue Apr 12 20:50:23 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <jhylton@gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
Message-ID: <694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
> Is index.python.org the most boring but readable and straight-forward
> choice? It's just like PyPI, but "Py" becomes "python.org", and the
> second P kind of disapears, and we expand the I... so it's not a choice
> at all, just a respelling of the current name ;)
index.python.org +2
green + 1
From fdrake at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 21:19:24 2005
From: fdrake at gmail.com (Fred Drake)
Date: Tue Apr 12 21:19:27 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <jhylton@gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
On Apr 12, 2005 2:48 PM, Brant Harris <deadwisdom@gmail.com> wrote:
> index.python.org +2
I think index.python.org is a terrible name. archive.python.org is
better, by a little bit.
Now that PyPI has both index and archive functions, we should probably
think about whcih we want to emphasize. If we care about "competing"
with CPAN (which stands for "Comprehensive Perl Archive Network",
never mind that it *could* stand for other things), then the archive
aspect is important and should be emphasized.
I think "index" alone simply doesn't say anything to most users, even
when we're only considering programmers. "archive" is better because
it suggests things in storage and a way to find them, but I'd be just
as happy to find mailing list archives there.
"packages" may be better, because at least it says what can be found
there. It doesn't have any glitz, though, and just a little bit of
that would be nice.
-Fred
--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at gmail.com>
From trentm at ActiveState.com Tue Apr 12 21:42:39 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue Apr 12 21:47:40 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<jhylton@gmail.com> <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
[Fred Drake on "index"]
> I think index.python.org is a terrible name. archive.python.org is
> better, by a little bit.
>
> ...
>
> I think "index" alone simply doesn't say anything to most users, even
> when we're only considering programmers. "archive" is better because
> it suggests things in storage and a way to find them, but I'd be just
> as happy to find mailing list archives there.
>
> "packages" may be better, because at least it says what can be found
> there. It doesn't have any glitz, though, and just a little bit of
> that would be nice.
+1 on "catalog" as DavidA (I think, or was it AMK?) suggested. It is
good enough for the mailing list about this.
Trent
--
Trent Mick
TrentM@ActiveState.com
From ianb at colorstudy.com Tue Apr 12 22:36:57 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue Apr 12 22:38:56 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com> <200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<jhylton@gmail.com> <e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com> <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com> <e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com> <425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com> <20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org> <694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <425C3169.7000902@colorstudy.com>
Fred Drake wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2005 2:48 PM, Brant Harris <deadwisdom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>index.python.org +2
>
>
> I think index.python.org is a terrible name. archive.python.org is
> better, by a little bit.
Or you could have both -- archive.python.org as the download site (maybe
easier to set up mirroring with a separate domain name --
download.python.org would be just as good in that respect), maybe
index.python.org as the web frontend (what PyPI has been providing all
along). Or catalog.python.org, or packages.python.org -- they are all
just fine. I think they all are reasonably easy to pronounce, aren't
redundant (pypi.python.org would be redundant, and hard to pronounce),
and pretty clear about what (generally) they provide.
It's boring, but I think it's okay if PyPI ultimately comes off as
boring, as long as it works well and is easy to use. I think a separate
domain name would be nice, though, whatever the domain name might be.
But I really think domain names look more professional when they are
painted blue ;)
--
Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org
From tim at pollenation.net Tue Apr 12 23:01:24 2005
From: tim at pollenation.net (Tim Parkin)
Date: Tue Apr 12 23:01:30 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com> <200504071422.57879.richardjones@optushome.com.au> <jhylton@gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com> <200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com> <e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com> <425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com> <20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org> <694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com> <9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
Trent Mick wrote:
> [Fred Drake on "index"]
>
>>I think index.python.org is a terrible name. archive.python.org is
>>better, by a little bit.
>
> +1 on "catalog" as DavidA (I think, or was it AMK?) suggested. It is
> good enough for the mailing list about this.
>
> Trent
>
I like simple so I'll bow out with ..
packages
so that would be +1 on packages from me then (and packages.python.org)
although i'd be happy with archive or even catalog .. index sounds like
it should be a sitemap of python.org
Tim
ps google is already ranking python.org/pypi for the search 'python
packages'
From jhylton at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 23:04:05 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Tue Apr 12 23:04:09 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
Why do we need a separate domain for this service? Isn't
python.org/packages just as good? It seems to me like doc.python.org
has been a disaster not worth repeating. (That is, whenever I do a
search for Python documentation I can random mirrors and never see
python.org results.)
Jeremy
From tim at pollenation.net Tue Apr 12 23:42:35 2005
From: tim at pollenation.net (Tim Parkin)
Date: Tue Apr 12 23:42:32 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> Why do we need a separate domain for this service? Isn't
> python.org/packages just as good? It seems to me like doc.python.org
> has been a disaster not worth repeating. (That is, whenever I do a
> search for Python documentation I can random mirrors and never see
> python.org results.)
agreed ... although it might be useful for the *service* if an alternate
ip were needed. There has been previous suggestion that docs.python.org
would be a good way of isolating the documentation for use with googles
site search facility although this hasn't actually been implemented and
you can achieve the same through using googles allinurl function eg
heres a search for pickle in the 2.4 docs
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Awww.python.org+inurl%3A2%5C.4+intitle%3Apickle
anyway... completely off topic.
Tim
From bob at redivi.com Wed Apr 13 00:25:30 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed Apr 13 01:32:44 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a5305040705597406ae7e@mail.gmail.com>
<200504121557.j3CFvFIb006963@theraft.strakt.com>
<e8bf7a5305041209513ba3b80b@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
Message-ID: <36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
On Apr 12, 2005, at 5:42 PM, Tim Parkin wrote:
> Jeremy Hylton wrote:
>
>> Why do we need a separate domain for this service? Isn't
>> python.org/packages just as good? It seems to me like doc.python.org
>> has been a disaster not worth repeating. (That is, whenever I do a
>> search for Python documentation I can random mirrors and never see
>> python.org results.)
>>
>
> agreed ... although it might be useful for the *service* if an
> alternate ip were needed. There has been previous suggestion that
> docs.python.org would be a good way of isolating the documentation
> for use with googles site search facility although this hasn't
> actually been implemented and you can achieve the same through
> using googles allinurl function eg
>
> heres a search for pickle in the 2.4 docs
> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Awww.python.org+inurl%3A2%5C.
> 4+intitle%3Apickle
What do you mean hasn't been implemented?
Anyway, the docs.python.org search is easier to type and requires
less google-fu.. searching for "pickle site:docs.python.org" works
great.
-bob
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Wed Apr 13 01:39:57 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed Apr 13 01:40:08 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200504071311.01530.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200504130939.57294.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:19 am, Fred Drake wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2005 2:48 PM, Brant Harris <deadwisdom@gmail.com> wrote:
> > index.python.org +2
>
> I think index.python.org is a terrible name. archive.python.org is
> better, by a little bit.
>
> Now that PyPI has both index and archive functions, we should probably
> think about whcih we want to emphasize.
Definitely the CPAN-like aspects, as that's "the number one reason I don't use
Python" in the words of so many slashdotters.
> If we care about "competing"
> with CPAN (which stands for "Comprehensive Perl Archive Network",
> never mind that it *could* stand for other things), then the archive
> aspect is important and should be emphasized.
And lends a lot of weight to the "PyPAN" name, even though I don't like it :)
> I think "index" alone simply doesn't say anything to most users, even
> when we're only considering programmers. "archive" is better because
> it suggests things in storage and a way to find them, but I'd be just
> as happy to find mailing list archives there.
>
> "packages" may be better, because at least it says what can be found
> there. It doesn't have any glitz, though, and just a little bit of
> that would be nice.
This discussion seems to have diverted down the path of talking about URL
components. The issue here isn't the URL, it's the name. "CPAN" is
immediately identifiable as "the place you go to get poorly-written Perl
modules". "packages" means ... er ... Same with "index", "archive" and any
other common word. The name needs to include either the word "python" or
something so unique it couldn't be confused (which is why I went down the
"shrubbery" path).
So, I believe we need a name / acronym that's "catchy" like "CPAN" (it's got a
good rythm) that's not "PyPAN" (ie. just "CPAN" with a letter changed)
So, taking:
Python
Archive (registry)
Repository (treasury)
Index
Packages
Extensions
Modules
Central?
Network?
I get:
Comprehensive Python Archive Network CPAN
Python Package Archive Network PyPAN
Python Central Archive of Packages PyCAP
Python Repository of Packages PROP
Python Central Archive Repository PyCAR
Treasury Of Python TOP
Central Archive Repository of Python CARP
Central Repository Archive of Python CRAP (or Py ;)
Python Central Repository Archive of Packages PyCRAP
Seminal Python Archive of Modules SPAM
I hereby request that any future responses (even "me too" ones) to this thread
must include at least ten name ideas :)
Richard
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From fdrake at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 04:01:08 2005
From: fdrake at gmail.com (Fred Drake)
Date: Wed Apr 13 04:01:11 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<425C026A.9040302@colorstudy.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
Message-ID: <9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
Regarding docs.python.org and Google-fu:
On 4/12/05, Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
> What do you mean hasn't been implemented?
I don't know exactly what Jeremy meant, but I do know that for a while
the Google search box on docs.python.org was doing a www.python.org
search instead of the intended docs.python.org search.
I fixed this a week or so ago, so the docs.python.org search is now
automatic from the front pages of docs.python.org. I still need to
do something about adding it to the rest of docs.python.org, though.
-Fred
--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at gmail.com>
From clayton.brown at digitalrum.com Wed Apr 13 12:18:00 2005
From: clayton.brown at digitalrum.com (Clayton Brown)
Date: Wed Apr 13 12:18:02 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Re: Perhaps "PyPI" will do
Message-ID: <A5EC347F51CFD411A47200508B68543C05A4CFD4@UKEXCH001>
We come back bring PyPan!
..sorry beta pun I couldn't resist
catalog.python.org + 1
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Heller [mailto:theller@python.net]
> Sent: 12 April 2005 17:51
> To: catalog-sig@python.org
> Subject: [Catalog-sig] Re: Perhaps "PyPI" will do
>
>
> Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> writes:
>
> > I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute,
> catchy name we
> > want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> > manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
> >
> > But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name
> up, and how
> > many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan
> seems free,
> > as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
> >
> > Laura
>
> Feel free to use the name for whatever you want. I doubt
> anyone except myself (and that only for testing it out) has
> ever used this stuff.
>
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> Catalog-sig mailing list
> Catalog-sig@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
>
From clayton.brown at digitalrum.com Wed Apr 13 12:21:29 2005
From: clayton.brown at digitalrum.com (Clayton Brown)
Date: Wed Apr 13 12:21:30 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
Message-ID: <A5EC347F51CFD411A47200508B68543C05A4CFD5@UKEXCH001>
Game on... And then people will already know its purpose if they are aware
of the perl equivalent
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Summers [mailto:ehs@pobox.com]
> Sent: 12 April 2005 17:49
> To: catalog-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 05:57:14PM +0200, Laura Creighton wrote:
> > I think that our problem is that PyPan is _the_ cute,
> catchy name we
> > want. But alas, Thomas Heller already has it for his package
> > manager: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pypan/
> >
> > But I have no idea how he would feel about giving the name
> up, and how
> > many people this would inconvenience if he did so. PiPan
> seems free,
> > as is PiePan, but I like my 'Pi' with 'Y' :-)
>
> You know, it might be even cuter to just call it CPAN. CPAN
> afterall stands for the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network,
> and could just as easily be Comprehensive Python Archive Network.
>
> cpan.python.org
>
> It has a certain ring to it :)
>
> //Ed
> _______________________________________________
> Catalog-sig mailing list
> Catalog-sig@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
>
From jhylton at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 15:15:42 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Wed Apr 13 15:15:51 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/12/05, Fred Drake <fdrake@gmail.com> wrote:
> Regarding docs.python.org and Google-fu:
>
> On 4/12/05, Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
> > What do you mean hasn't been implemented?
>
> I don't know exactly what Jeremy meant, but I do know that for a while
> the Google search box on docs.python.org was doing a www.python.org
> search instead of the intended docs.python.org search.
>
> I fixed this a week or so ago, so the docs.python.org search is now
> automatic from the front pages of docs.python.org. I still need to
> do something about adding it to the rest of docs.python.org, though.
I mean that if I go to google.com and type in something related to
Python documentation, none of the results are from python.org. They
are all from mirrors of python.org + docs.python.org and from places
like pydoc.org. In the good old days, I could do a simple search for
Python documentation -- just enter the words I was looking for,
perhaps with python as an added term -- and the www.python.org results
would be in the top 5.
I think that's bad for Python users, because most of the people who do
those queries would be best served going to python.org.
Jeremy
From bob at redivi.com Wed Apr 13 15:40:34 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed Apr 13 15:43:53 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412172612.GB9143@chloe.inkdroid.org>
<694c06d60504121148579eab97@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
On Apr 13, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> On 4/12/05, Fred Drake <fdrake@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Regarding docs.python.org and Google-fu:
>>
>> On 4/12/05, Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
>>> What do you mean hasn't been implemented?
>>
>> I don't know exactly what Jeremy meant, but I do know that for a while
>> the Google search box on docs.python.org was doing a www.python.org
>> search instead of the intended docs.python.org search.
>>
>> I fixed this a week or so ago, so the docs.python.org search is now
>> automatic from the front pages of docs.python.org. I still need to
>> do something about adding it to the rest of docs.python.org, though.
>
> I mean that if I go to google.com and type in something related to
> Python documentation, none of the results are from python.org. They
> are all from mirrors of python.org + docs.python.org and from places
> like pydoc.org. In the good old days, I could do a simple search for
> Python documentation -- just enter the words I was looking for,
> perhaps with python as an added term -- and the www.python.org results
> would be in the top 5.
>
> I think that's bad for Python users, because most of the people who do
> those queries would be best served going to python.org.
Before docs.python.org, when I did the same searches, I always ended up
with garbage from mailing list archives -- not real documentation.
-bob
From jhylton at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 16:32:09 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Wed Apr 13 16:32:12 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
<f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/13/05, Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
> Before docs.python.org, when I did the same searches, I always ended up
> with garbage from mailing list archives -- not real documentation.
I agree mailing list archives are a problem, but I used to get by just
fine with regular search. To the extent that I still get useful
results, the documentation comes from mirror sites.
Jeremy
From fdrake at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 16:34:46 2005
From: fdrake at gmail.com (Fred Drake)
Date: Wed Apr 13 16:34:53 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
<f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
<e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9cee7ab805041307344b35b694@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/13/05, Jeremy Hylton <jhylton@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree mailing list archives are a problem, but I used to get by just
> fine with regular search. To the extent that I still get useful
> results, the documentation comes from mirror sites.
Is it a problem for it to come from mirrors? Is there something that
could/should be done to ensure that Google realizes these are mirrored
copies?
-Fred
--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at gmail.com>
From bob at redivi.com Wed Apr 13 16:48:03 2005
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed Apr 13 17:15:55 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<9cee7ab805041212193b7eba0c@mail.gmail.com>
<20050412194239.GB7221@ActiveState.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
<f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
<e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d6dd380f4e6af564ac1c8f4b18a1ce7@redivi.com>
On Apr 13, 2005, at 10:32 AM, Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> On 4/13/05, Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
>> Before docs.python.org, when I did the same searches, I always ended
>> up
>> with garbage from mailing list archives -- not real documentation.
>
> I agree mailing list archives are a problem, but I used to get by just
> fine with regular search. To the extent that I still get useful
> results, the documentation comes from mirror sites.
I remember that when I was learning the C API, google was hardly useful
at all because of the over-abundance of mailing list results and random
source code snippets.. with site:docs.python.org, I have no problems.
This was the major reason I submitted a feature request to create
docs.python.org in the first place, so you can blame it on me (but
obviously at least one person with access to implement also thought it
was a good idea).
Just try searching for PyObject_GetAttr with and without
site:docs.python.org
Additionally, docs.python.org ensures that you find the latest
documentation. Without it, you'll often end up with junk from 1.5,
2.1, etc.
-bob
From janc13 at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 03:27:00 2005
From: janc13 at gmail.com (JanC)
Date: Sat Apr 16 03:27:06 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Perhaps "PyPI" will do
In-Reply-To: <1d6dd380f4e6af564ac1c8f4b18a1ce7@redivi.com>
References: <694c06d605040621011726caad@mail.gmail.com>
<425C3724.1030801@pollenation.net>
<e8bf7a5305041214043e9bccdf@mail.gmail.com>
<425C40CB.5070605@pollenation.net>
<36156A95-D677-4152-B693-F1318051256E@redivi.com>
<9cee7ab8050412190137113dda@mail.gmail.com>
<e8bf7a53050413061550d328da@mail.gmail.com>
<f0b330519fea3ec0653d4e1cbbcafda3@redivi.com>
<e8bf7a5305041307321ffd3fca@mail.gmail.com>
<1d6dd380f4e6af564ac1c8f4b18a1ce7@redivi.com>
Message-ID: <984838bf050415182772cd3229@mail.gmail.com>
Bob Ippolito wrote:
> I remember that when I was learning the C API, google was hardly useful
> at all because of the over-abundance of mailing list results and random
> source code snippets.. with site:docs.python.org, I have no problems.
Even better: these days most browsers allow custom searches in one way
or another (and most of them in more than one way).
E.g., try the following if you are a Firefox or Mozilla user...
Create a new bookmark like this:
- Name: Google Search in Python Documentation
- Location: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:docs.python.org+%s
- Keyword: docpy
Now when you type "docpy test" in the address bar you get get the
google search results for the word "test" within the docs.python.org
domain.
(A similar feature is included in Opera & Konqueror, and AFAIK in
other browsers too.)
--
JanC
From jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com Mon Apr 18 21:42:55 2005
From: jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com (Jeremy Kloth)
Date: Mon Apr 18 21:42:39 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
Message-ID: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
As the authors of 4Suite, we would like to add our most recent release to PyPI
but cannot do so as we didn't add the original package. Is there as way to
contact the PyPI owner? I've searched the interface but to no avail.
--
Jeremy Kloth
Fourthought, Inc.
http://fourthought.com/
http://4suite.org/
From martin at v.loewis.de Mon Apr 18 22:28:53 2005
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon Apr 18 22:28:55 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
In-Reply-To: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
References: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
Message-ID: <42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
Jeremy Kloth wrote:
> As the authors of 4Suite, we would like to add our most recent release to PyPI
> but cannot do so as we didn't add the original package. Is there as way to
> contact the PyPI owner? I've searched the interface but to no avail.
You can guess from the account name of the owner: Google tells you that
"aaronsw" most likely is Aaron Swartz (just ask "aaronsw 4Suite").
In general, no, this is not possible, but probably should be - please
add a feature request to sf.net/projects/pypi.
It might also be sensible to regularly (e.g. once a year) send a
keep-alive message to all registered users; if the message bounces,
we could remove them from PyPI, and if that causes a package
to be without owner, to remove the package as well.
Regards,
Martin
From ianb at colorstudy.com Mon Apr 18 22:34:45 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon Apr 18 22:36:52 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
In-Reply-To: <42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
References: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
<42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <426419E5.6010205@colorstudy.com>
Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Jeremy Kloth wrote:
>
>>As the authors of 4Suite, we would like to add our most recent release to PyPI
>>but cannot do so as we didn't add the original package. Is there as way to
>>contact the PyPI owner? I've searched the interface but to no avail.
>
>
> You can guess from the account name of the owner: Google tells you that
> "aaronsw" most likely is Aaron Swartz (just ask "aaronsw 4Suite").
>
> In general, no, this is not possible, but probably should be - please
> add a feature request to sf.net/projects/pypi.
>
> It might also be sensible to regularly (e.g. once a year) send a
> keep-alive message to all registered users; if the message bounces,
> we could remove them from PyPI, and if that causes a package
> to be without owner, to remove the package as well.
We shouldn't get rid of packages unless the site disappears (though we
could mark the package as possibly orphaned). Or the owner maybe could
become null, and allow another person to take the project over.
In most cases I'd rather anyone be able to edit a package, with the
owner being notified. Even when the owner hasn't disappeared, in many
open source projects the person who updates the package for one release
won't be the same person as for the next release. Complicated
permission systems seem unnecessary -- (fairly) open editing with
notification should be enough.
Or, notification with required confirmation, where if the author doesn't
explicitly reject a change it gets put in by default.
--
Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org
From jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com Mon Apr 18 23:11:42 2005
From: jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com (Jeremy Kloth)
Date: Mon Apr 18 23:12:09 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Fwd: Re: 4Suite PyPI pacakge
In-Reply-To: <200504181501.33032.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
References: <200504181432.03199.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
<dc21c78605041813563763b7e5@mail.gmail.com>
<200504181501.33032.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
Message-ID: <200504181511.42488.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
While attempting to resolve the 4Suite package ownership, this issue came up.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: 4Suite PyPI pacakge
Date: Monday 18 April 2005 3:07 pm
From: Aaron Swartz <aaronsw@gmail.com>
To: Jeremy Kloth <jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
Maybe you can email catalog-sig and tell them to fix
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1178266&group_id=661
50&atid=513503
I suspect you'd hold a lot more sway than I would.
-------------------------------------------------------
--
Jeremy Kloth
Fourthought, Inc.
http://fourthought.com/
http://4suite.org/
From jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com Mon Apr 18 23:24:38 2005
From: jeremy.kloth at fourthought.com (Jeremy Kloth)
Date: Mon Apr 18 23:24:22 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
In-Reply-To: <42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
References: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
<42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <200504181524.39054.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
On Monday 18 April 2005 2:28 pm, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Jeremy Kloth wrote:
> > As the authors of 4Suite, we would like to add our most recent release to
> > PyPI but cannot do so as we didn't add the original package. Is there as
> > way to contact the PyPI owner? I've searched the interface but to no
> > avail.
>
> You can guess from the account name of the owner: Google tells you that
> "aaronsw" most likely is Aaron Swartz (just ask "aaronsw 4Suite").
I did end up doing just that, but Aaron has run into a snag in trying to give
us ownership:
From Aaron Swartz <aaronsw@gmail.com>:
>Maybe you can email catalog-sig and tell them to fix
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1178266&group_id=66150&atid=513503
>
>I suspect you'd hold a lot more sway than I would.
--
Jeremy Kloth
Fourthought, Inc.
http://fourthought.com/
http://4suite.org/
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Wed Apr 20 05:26:46 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed Apr 20 05:26:56 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
In-Reply-To: <42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
References: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
<42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <200504201326.51271.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:28 am, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> It might also be sensible to regularly (e.g. once a year) send a
> keep-alive message to all registered users; if the message bounces,
> we could remove them from PyPI, and if that causes a package
> to be without owner, to remove the package as well.
I've suggested this in the past - it's a script that just needs an author ;)
I'd not remove the package entirely though.
Richard
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From richardjones at optushome.com.au Wed Apr 20 11:28:23 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed Apr 20 11:28:30 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Contacting package owner
In-Reply-To: <200504181524.39054.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
References: <200504181342.55310.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
<42641885.5050007@v.loewis.de>
<200504181524.39054.jeremy.kloth@fourthought.com>
Message-ID: <200504201928.23485.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:24 am, Jeremy Kloth wrote:
> I did end up doing just that, but Aaron has run into a snag in trying to
> give
>
> us ownership:
> >From Aaron Swartz <aaronsw@gmail.com>:
> >Maybe you can email catalog-sig and tell them to fix
> >http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1178266&group_id=
> >66150&atid=513503
This is fixed now.
Richard
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From mauriceling at acm.org Wed Apr 27 00:34:37 2005
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling)
Date: Wed Apr 27 00:34:45 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Package maintenance mechanism for Python
Message-ID: <426EC1FD.6030405@acm.org>
Hi all,
I am new to this list. To cut matters short, my concern is this,
PyPI has a module upload mechanism. But is there a module download
mechanism. By that, I meant a mechanism which system admins can use to
download and install a module (library) and keep track of what is
installed into site-package directory through this mechanism?
The problem I see is that maintaining 3rd party libraries in
site-package is a task for system admins or developers, especially when
new versions of Python is installed (say from Python 2.3 to Python 2.4).
All of the libraries (esp those with C modules) needs to be recompiled.
Is there a mechanism for the programmers to find out what is installed
in say, Python2.3's site-packages and download the same modules from
PyPI and install them in Python2.4's site-packages?
I had posted the following in python-list but will replicate it here for
completeness:
========================================================================
Perhaps this is another call for Python version of CPAN (CPyAN or PYAN).
It can be modelled after Fink or Darwinports.
If I remembered correctly, Fink uses apt-get and curl.
What can be done in PYAN is to encourage all 3rd party library
developers to centralize their libraries in it, which I think all will
gladly respond. All that is needed to be deposited in PYAN is a
description file, like the simplest setup.py file. All that is needed in
this description file is
1. where to download the source codes (e.g. CVS)?
2. version number?
3. standard stuffs (optional) like authors, descriptions, copyright?
Python can then have a built-in mechanism to read the description file
and download the source codes and do the standard "sudo python setup.py
install" to install the library into site-package. The main thing this
mechamisn does is to maintain what had been installed in site-package
through it and what versions. So when newer versions of Python is
installed, there can be a script to take the old site-package log,
download the same set of libraries and install them for the new version
of Python.
Darwinports uses a very simple means to achieve this. All the
description files are in a CVS repository. The actual source codes for
the libraries may or may not reside in the CVS repository. Darwinports
system installation is little more than checking out the entire
repository of description files. When user wants to install a library,
it then downloads the library's source codes and performs the standard
"configure, make, make install" operations. Of course, the root user
will have to do a update to update to the latest version of description
files.
I think something like this can be set up for Python quite easily. I
recall some time back, there's a long discussion about setting up
Python's version of CPAN but I can't recall the contents of the
discussions.
========================================================================
Thanks and cheers
Maurice
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From mauriceling at acm.org Thu Apr 28 09:57:22 2005
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Thu Apr 28 09:57:47 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] bytecode non-backcompatibility
In-Reply-To: <427067a2$0$27765$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <d4frsf$ku$1@domitilla.aioe.org><1114418065.581779.52480@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> <d4kh4q$tqf$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
<mailman.2524.1114533204.1799.python-list@python.org>
<d4mc39$dl9$1@domitilla.aioe.org> <426F2C3A.80402@v.loewis.de>
<d4nrhu$rl3$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
<426fdea1$0$31536$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
<d4p4hn$rea$1@domitilla.aioe.org>
<427067a2$0$27765$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <42709762.9030603@acm.org>
Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Maurice LING wrote:
>
>>I've emailed to catelog-sig mailing list and is still waiting to hear
>>something. Currently, I have no idea of the structure of PyPI. I hope I
>>can hear from them soon and generate some starting points...
>
>
> Posting questions is not the only way to find answers. The source code
> of PyPI is available: sf.net/projects/pypi.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
I've browsed the source codes of PyPI in sf.net, nothing pops up as very
useful to me... I reckoned that sitting in here or hoping for replies
from catelog-sig isn't going to help much.
On that, I've prototyped a very simple proof-of-concept of what I have
in mind, regarding a Fink-like tool for Python's 3rd party libraries
management. Please bear in mind that this is a proof-of-concept
prototype, really bare bones. It can be found in 'centipyde' module in
sf.net/projects/ib-dwb. In case the CVS hadn't updated by the time
someone reads this, the directory layout is this:
../centipyde
../centipyde/centipyde.py
../centipyde/pgkinfo
../centipyde/pgkinfo/ply15.info
ply15.info contains the following text (pretty much modelled against Fink):
package=ply15
maintainer=.
dependencies=.
downloadurl=http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/ply-1.5.tar.gz
prebuildscript=tar zxvf ply-1.5.tar.gz
sourcedir=ply-1.5
buildscript=python setup.py build
installscript=sudo python setup.py install
centipyde.py is the following:
=====================================================
"""
Author: Maurice H.T. Ling <mauriceling@acm.org>
Copyright (c) 2005 Maurice H.T. Ling
Date created : 28th April 2005
"""
PKGINFOPATH = 'pkginfo'
INSTALL_LOG = 'install.log'
import os
import string
import sys
def install_package(package_name):
f = open(os.getcwd() + os.sep + PKGINFOPATH + os.sep + package_name
+ '.info', 'r')
install_info = {}
for line in f.readlines():
line = string.split(line, '=')
if line[1][-1] == os.linesep:
install_info[line[0]] = string.strip(line[1][:-1])
else: install_info[line[0]] = string.strip(line[1])
f.close()
print "Package Installation Information: " + str(install_info)
os.system('curl -O ' + str(install_info['downloadurl']))
preinstall = []
preinstall = string.split(install_info['prebuildscript'], ';')
for cmd in preinstall: os.system(cmd)
cwd = os.getcwd()
print cwd
os.chdir(os.path.join(os.getcwd(), install_info['sourcedir']))
print os.getcwd()
buildscript = []
buildscript = string.split(install_info['buildscript'], ';')
for cmd in buildscript: os.system(cmd)
installscript = []
installscript = string.split(install_info['installscript'], ';')
for cmd in installscript: os.system(cmd)
if sys.argv[1] == 'install':
install_package(sys.argv[2])
=====================================================
When I run "python centipyde.py install ply15", PLY1.5 gets downloaded
from David Beazley's website, uncompressed and installed into the
site-package.
All comments and code donations are welcomed.
Cheers
Maurice
From richardjones at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 29 11:43:32 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri Apr 29 11:43:41 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] New PEP, pre-submission RFC
Message-ID: <200504291943.32344.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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Hash: SHA1
PEP: NNN
Title: Medatadata for Python Software Packages 1.2
Version: $Revision$
Last-Modified: $Date$
Author: Richard Jones <richard@mechanicalcat.net>
Discussions-To: Distutils SIG
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Created: 28-04-2005
Python-Version: 2.5
Abstract
========
This PEP describes a mechanism for adding metadata to Python
packages. It includes specifics of the field names, and their
semantics and usage.
This document specifies version 1.2 of the metadata format.
Version 1.0 is specified in PEP 241.
Version 1.1 is specified in PEP 314.
Version 1.2 of the metadata format adds a number of optional
fields designed to make third-party packaging of Python Software
easier. These fields are "Requires-Python" and "Requires-External".
Also, the "Metadata-Version" field is updated.
Fields
======
This section specifies the names and semantics of each of the
supported metadata fields.
Fields marked with "(Multiple use)" may be specified multiple
times in a single PKG-INFO file. Other fields may only occur
once in a PKG-INFO file. Fields marked with "(optional)" are
not required to appear in a valid PKG-INFO file; all other
fields must be present.
Metadata-Version
Version of the file format; "1.0", "1.1" and "1.2" are the
only legal values here.
Example:
Metadata-Version: 1.2
Name
The name of the package.
Example:
Name: BeagleVote
Version
A string containing the package's version number. This
field should be parseable by one of the Version classes
(StrictVersion or LooseVersion) in the distutils.version
module.
Example:
Version: 1.0a2
Platform (multiple use)
A comma-separated list of platform specifications, summarizing
the operating systems supported by the package which are not
listed in the "Operating System" Trove classifiers. See
"Classifier" below.
Example:
Platform: ObscureUnix, RareDOS
Supported-Platform (multiple use)
Binary distributions containing a PKG-INFO file will use the
Supported-Platform field in their metadata to specify the OS and
CPU for which the binary package was compiled. The semantics of
the Supported-Platform field are not specified in this PEP.
Example:
Supported-Platform: RedHat 7.2
Supported-Platform: i386-win32-2791
Summary
A one-line summary of what the package does.
Example:
Summary: A module for collecting votes from beagles.
Description (optional)
A longer description of the package that can run to several
paragraphs. Software that deals with metadata should not assume
any maximum size for this field, though people shouldn't include
their instruction manual as the description.
The contents of this field can be written using reStructuredText
markup [1]. For programs that work with the metadata,
supporting markup is optional; programs can also display the
contents of the field as-is. This means that authors should be
conservative in the markup they use.
Example:
Description: This module collects votes from beagles
in order to determine their electoral wishes.
Do *not* try to use this module with basset hounds;
it makes them grumpy.
Keywords (optional)
A list of additional keywords to be used to assist searching
for the package in a larger catalog.
Example:
Keywords: dog puppy voting election
Home-page (optional)
A string containing the URL for the package's home page.
Example:
Home-page: http://www.example.com/~cschultz/bvote/
Download-URL
A string containing the URL from which this version of the package
can be downloaded. (This means that the URL can't be something like
".../package-latest.tgz", but instead must be "../package-0.45.tgz".)
Author (optional)
A string containing the author's name at a minimum; additional
contact information may be provided.
Example:
Author: C. Schultz, Universal Features Syndicate,
Los Angeles, CA <cschultz@peanuts.example.com>
Author-email
A string containing the author's e-mail address. It can contain
a name and e-mail address in the legal forms for a RFC-822
'From:' header. It's not optional because cataloging systems
can use the e-mail portion of this field as a unique key
representing the author. A catalog might provide authors the
ability to store their GPG key, personal home page, and other
additional metadata *about the author*, and optionally the
ability to associate several e-mail addresses with the same
person. Author-related metadata fields are not covered by this
PEP.
Example:
Author-email: "C. Schultz" <cschultz@example.com>
License
Text indicating the license covering the package where the license
is not a selection from the "License" Trove classifiers. See
"Classifier" below.
Example:
License: This software may only be obtained by sending the
author a postcard, and then the user promises not
to redistribute it.
Classifier (multiple use)
Each entry is a string giving a single classification value
for the package. Classifiers are described in PEP 301 [2].
Examples:
Classifier: Development Status :: 4 - Beta
Classifier: Environment :: Console (Text Based)
Requires (multiple use)
Each entry contains a string describing some other module or
package required by this package.
The format of a requirement string is identical to that of a
module or package name usable with the 'import' statement,
optionally followed by a version declaration within parentheses.
A version declaration is a series of conditional operators and
version numbers, separated by commas. Conditional operators
must be one of "<", ">", "<=", ">=", "==", and "!=". Version
numbers must be in the format accepted by the
distutils.version.StrictVersion class: two or three
dot-separated numeric components, with an optional "pre-release"
tag on the end consisting of the letter 'a' or 'b' followed by a
number. Example version numbers are "1.0", "2.3a2", "1.3.99",
Any number of conditional operators can be specified, e.g.
the string ">1.0, !=1.3.4, <2.0" is a legal version declaration.
All of the following are possible requirement strings: "rfc822",
"zlib (>=1.1.4)", "zope".
There's no canonical list of what strings should be used; the
Python community is left to choose its own standards.
Example:
Requires: re
Requires: sys
Requires: zlib
Requires: xml.parsers.expat (>1.0)
Requires: psycopg
Provides (multiple use)
Each entry contains a string describing a package or module that
will be provided by this package once it is installed. These
strings should match the ones used in Requirements fields. A
version declaration may be supplied (without a comparison
operator); the package's version number will be implied if none
is specified.
Example:
Provides: xml
Provides: xml.utils
Provides: xml.utils.iso8601
Provides: xml.dom
Provides: xmltools (1.3)
Obsoletes (multiple use)
Each entry contains a string describing a package or module
that this package renders obsolete, meaning that the two packages
should not be installed at the same time. Version declarations
can be supplied.
The most common use of this field will be in case a package name
changes, e.g. Gorgon 2.3 gets subsumed into Torqued Python 1.0.
When you install Torqued Python, the Gorgon package should be
removed.
Example:
Obsoletes: Gorgon
Requires-Python
This field specifies the Python version(s) that the package is
guaranteed to be compatible with. The format of the field is a
series of conditional operators and version numbers, separated
by commas. Conditional operators must be one of "<", ">", "<=",
">=", "==", and "!=". Version numbers must be in the format
accepted by the distutils.version.StrictVersion class: two or three
dot-separated numeric components, with an optional "pre-release"
tag on the end consisting of the letter 'a' or 'b' followed by a
number. Example version numbers are "1.0", "2.3a2" and "1.3.99".
Any number of conditional operators can be specified, e.g.
the string ">1.0, !=1.3.4, <2.0" is a legal version declaration.
Example:
Requires-Python: >2.1
Requires-Python: >=2.3.4
XXX This field doesn't take into account possible future
incompatibilities through deprecation. We could specify that the ">"
operator only work for up to two releases? This is based on the typical
deprecation plan that Python usually follows (warning for two releases
and then error). That is, >=2.3.4 works for 2.3.4, 2.4 and 2.5.
Requires-External (multiple use)
Each entry contains a string describing some dependency in the
system that the package is to be used.
The format of a requirement string is a name of an external
dependency, optionally followed by a version declaration within
parentheses.
A version declaration is a series of conditional operators and
version numbers, separated by commas. Conditional operators
must be one of "<", ">", "<=", ">=", "==", and "!=". Version
numbers must be in the format accepted by the
distutils.version.StrictVersion class: two or three
dot-separated numeric components, with an optional "pre-release"
tag on the end consisting of the letter 'a' or 'b' followed by a
number. Example version numbers are "1.0", "2.3a2", "1.3.99",
Any number of conditional operators can be specified, e.g.
the string ">1.0, !=1.3.4, <2.0" is a legal version declaration.
The canonical list of what strings are allowed is available
in the `Cheese Shop`_ database. New names may be added to the
database either through the web or using the command-line;
Python community is left to choose its own standards.
Some dependencies are anticipated to be quite broad, eg. "C",
indicating a C compiler is required.
Example:
Requires: C
Requires: libpng
Copyright
Indicates the party or parties, and the year of copyright
covering the package.
Example:
Copyright: Guido van Rossum, 1991
Copyright: Python Software Foundation, 2005
Copyright: Public Domain
External References Registry
============================
Stores in the Cheese Shop database a list of (name, description, URI)
identifying an external reference that may be used as a value in a
Requires-External field.
The name and description are required, but URI is not (as there is no
single useful URI for "C").
Submissions to the registry are open to the community, and may be performed
through the web or using the command-line.
The names in the registry will be created under a first-comes first-wins
basis. Other packagers of Python software (eg. to deb, rpm, etc) should be
able to translate the requires-external field to names in their own
packaging system.
XXX command-line interface needs work, obviously
References
==========
This document specifies version 1.2 of the metadata format.
Version 1.0 is specified in PEP 241.
Version 1.1 is specified in PEP 314.
.. _`Cheese Shop`: http://cheeseshop.python.org/
Copyright
=========
This document has been placed in the public domain.
Acknowledgements
================
Fred Drake, Anthony Baxter and Matthias Klose have all contributed to
the ideas presented in this PEP.
..
Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
sentence-end-double-space: t
fill-column: 70
End:
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From richardjones at optushome.com.au Fri Apr 29 11:52:10 2005
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri Apr 29 11:52:17 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Package maintenance mechanism for Python
In-Reply-To: <426EC1FD.6030405@acm.org>
References: <426EC1FD.6030405@acm.org>
Message-ID: <200504291952.10625.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:34 am, Maurice Ling wrote:
> PyPI has a module upload mechanism. But is there a module download
> mechanism.
Not yet. You are welcome to write it.
> By that, I meant a mechanism which system admins can use to
> download and install a module (library)
This, as you already note, is trivial. Python's built-in urllib and xmlrpclib
make it so.
> and keep track of what is
> installed into site-package directory through this mechanism?
PEP 262 is an attempt to address this:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0262.html
A large amount of discussion exists around whether Python *should* have such a
database, or whether we should leave such things up to the Operating System
packaging mechanisms (rpm, deb, etc.) I fall in the latter category at the
moment.
> The problem I see is that maintaining 3rd party libraries in
> site-package is a task for system admins or developers, especially when
> new versions of Python is installed (say from Python 2.3 to Python 2.4).
The Ubuntu people have ideas about addressing this for pure-python packages,
but they include massive amounts of symlinks, and just not bothering with
trying to address cross-version issues when they hit a non-pure-python
package (ie. one that has a C extension). I think. It's all still a bit
vague :)
> All of the libraries (esp those with C modules) needs to be recompiled.
> Is there a mechanism for the programmers to find out what is installed
> in say, Python2.3's site-packages and download the same modules from
> PyPI and install them in Python2.4's site-packages?
I believe PEP 246 is intended to have this kind of information. Feel free to
read and flesh it out. And implement it.
Richard
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From gh at ghaering.de Fri Apr 29 11:59:33 2005
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Fri Apr 29 12:00:20 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] New PEP, pre-submission RFC
In-Reply-To: <200504291943.32344.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
References: <200504291943.32344.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <20050429095933.GA25977@mylene.ghaering.de>
I like this a lot, and I think it has just the right balance of how much
it defines and how much it leaves open. Only one remark:
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 07:43:32PM +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
> [...]
> Author (optional)
>
> A string containing the author's name at a minimum; additional
> contact information may be provided.
>
> Example:
>
> Author: C. Schultz, Universal Features Syndicate,
> Los Angeles, CA <cschultz@peanuts.example.com>
For those who have names with characters not in ASCII, is that possible?
do we just define that all text is UTF-8?
Not that I really need it, but would this be the right time to think
about optional description fields for other languages, too, like
Description-fr, Description-de for French and German ones?
-- Gerhard
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From fdrake at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 15:54:57 2005
From: fdrake at gmail.com (Fred Drake)
Date: Fri Apr 29 15:55:00 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] New PEP, pre-submission RFC
In-Reply-To: <20050429095933.GA25977@mylene.ghaering.de>
References: <200504291943.32344.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
<20050429095933.GA25977@mylene.ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <9cee7ab80504290654138901dd@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/29/05, Gerhard Haering <gh@ghaering.de> wrote:
> For those who have names with characters not in ASCII, is that possible?
> do we just define that all text is UTF-8?
Does anything other than ASCII work (reliably) now? If not, I'm all
for declaring the serialized metadata to be UTF-8, and let distutils
check that when serializing (encoding Unicode as needed).
> Not that I really need it, but would this be the right time to think
> about optional description fields for other languages, too, like
>
> Description-fr, Description-de for French and German ones?
The *.desktop files used by GNOME and KDE use an INI-style syntax with
the language code in brackets; modifying that for the RFC-2822 style
headers would be something like this:
Description[fr]: French description here.
Description[de]: German here.
I've no reason to think this is better, but it may be familiar to
some, which is better than inventing syntax whole-hog.
I'll note that the format generally has just one section, and the
first entry in the ones I just took a look at all said Encoding=UTF-8.
Maybe it's a good idea to provide a way for the encoding to be
specified in the file, and require that apps be able to deal with
UTF-8 in whatever way is appropriate to them. In many cases, copying
the bytes is the most that's needed, so that keeps things simple
anyway.
-Fred
--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fdrake at gmail.com>
Zope Corporation
From clayton.brown at digitalrum.com Fri Apr 29 17:36:48 2005
From: clayton.brown at digitalrum.com (Clayton Brown)
Date: Fri Apr 29 17:36:51 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Package maintenance mechanism for Python
Message-ID: <A5EC347F51CFD411A47200508B68543C05A4D10D@ukexch001.digitalrum.net>
My 2 cents since I've been quietly watching this thread and some others
related to this.....
----
In a nutshell:
does Pypi intend to distribute versioned platform specific modules/eggs,
will core python 1.5 syntax extend to allow auto download/installation &
varying depth version requirement specification for imports
will ppm/cpan like service be established to satisfy python dependancies on
a given platform
----
Now the affle:
Surely with PyPI, CP(ython)AN, PythonArchives, PyVault, Temple of Star
Trek............ Whatever.............you get what in talking about PyPI for
now.
Personally: CPAN + 100, PyCatalogue + 50, eggcrate perhaps pending further
reading on eggs, religious/political/klingon/star-trek-punns - 500
Python being able to determine and resolve its dependencies at
import/runtime as well as have fine grained control over versions (and lazy
loading) with a global flag to prevent automatic resolution
(download/installation) for security purposes (exit raising an error
instead) I feel would be a the greatest leap forward for it's usability and
deployability and plans to take over the world, all python enthusiasts are
well aware that its syntax and power are not its problem with use, but for
satisfying dependencies Perls PPM has us over a barrel, call PyPI CPAN
flatter them for what its worth, we know they did it first and they did it
well, their syntax is still crap or we'd be using it.
Certainly PyPI is on the right track of at least aggregating the efforts of
the python community into a centralised archive but before it can be
entirely useful, the way these modules are searched/distributed is the most
important feature of the archive IMHO. I have not read up on the PyPI
functionality other than uploading/distutils references I have seen in
threads, as no real doc's are linked from http://python.org/pypi for
functionality beyond this. Some documentation refering to eggs/modules
versioning/platform etc on PyPi wouldn't go astray.
A while ago, out of frustration of working on several machines and keeping
their site-packages in sync, I wrote (adapted from some wxSomething or
another) a bootstrap loader to allow me to both import
exact/approx/latest(default) versions of archived/versioned modules as well
as specify python interpreter requirements at run time within my code. This
had a hidden benefit of allowing my scripts to quietly upgrade both
interpreter and module versions to later modules as I installed/versioned
them and as version incompatibilities arose I could either set them at that
version or perform upgrades. I now keep one versioned site-packages under
revision control and use a '.pth' file to add this to each of my python
installations. Side thought: Static analysis of my code would be able to
yield a complete dependency list for a build/packaging and distribution but
this was beyond the scope of my needs. I personally don't think
__init__.py's import perversions are a solution. More a band aid until the
core python syntax can accommodate such versioning functionality.
The loader is in ASPN:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/285215
My intention now that im migrating towards python2.4 with most of my code
and have zipimports/eggs available is to zip all my versioned imports as a
deployable unit and re-test this loader(I guess this is what eggs are as I
saw a reference to them been quite like jars - I haven't really read up on
yet them... Oh well ill get onto this in time at least before making afore
mentioned adjustments), the crux is this allows me to keep one repository of
site-packages allowing access to multiple concurrent versions of modules at
any one time, and rsync deploy my entire site-packages to new machines to
satisfy dependencies.
An obvious stumbling block I came across with this is the ability to store
non-pure-python versioned modules along with built system binaries that they
wrap for multiple platforms etc, for the most parts I just placed the shared
objects/dll's etc within the modules local path and whala presto it worked
great (perhaps eggs cater for this problem), the only problems beyond here
was knowing how to generate a text string which would uniquely identify a
platform (now I've seen reference to this in PEP-243
"<os_name>-<os_version>-<platform architecture>-<python-version>" is this
definitive and can this string be produced by a import? and are these the
only items which would affect built binaries compatibility
(os/gcc/kernel/etc/etc) ?) I imagine for PyPI to archive non pure-python
modules it must deal with these exact issues in the cataloguing process, id
be glad if someone could point me to somewhere definitive on this topic of
packaging Im guessing ill get a distutils link, hmmm distutils 101 probably.
I think if a CPAN like service evolves for python we need to address the
issue of python syntax for both specifying loose/strict version requirements
both for the interpreter and the imports as I have, and ensuring this
dependency is met allowing it additionally to satisfy this (by retrieving /
installing) via a CPAN like service (ok perhaps having a global flag to
prevent this by default for security)
The idea I have is for a CP(ython)AN PPM service to be invoked automatically
at run time to search/attain/install when an import from the local
(versioned) site-packages fails. Perhaps this could be handled by an actual
module itself which one would import to ensure site-packages are sorted all
auto auto during execution of the script.
from pypi import autoinstaller
import foo version = '1.2.3' #autoinstaller catches import fail, retrieves
module, installs, re-runs-import, resumes......game on.
Then integrate pypi within the core site-packages, along with extending the
import syntax/mechanism to allow specification of version.
import foo version 1.1.1.1.etc.etc.etc.....
This would allow varying accuracy as to imports so version 1.1 would load
1.1.5 / 1.1.6 / 1.1.7 as they became available whereas 1.1.5 would be fixed
at 1.1.5
We could add other helper methods to pypi for installing packages etc
import pypi
avail_modules = pypi.search("foomodule","1.2.3")
== or ==
setup.py
----------
import pypi
pypi.install("foomodule","1.2.3",autoresolveModulesDependancies=True)
print "Game on!"
-----------
pypi.pruneLocalCatalogue(last_imported_datetimestamp < now-1year) #import
mechanism touch file to show module usage perhaps
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Jones [mailto:richardjones@optushome.com.au]
> Sent: 29 April 2005 10:52
> To: catalog-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Catalog-sig] Package maintenance mechanism for Python
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:34 am, Maurice Ling wrote:
> > PyPI has a module upload mechanism. But is there a module download
> > mechanism.
>
> Not yet. You are welcome to write it.
>
>
> > By that, I meant a mechanism which system admins can use to
> > download and install a module (library)
>
> This, as you already note, is trivial. Python's built-in
> urllib and xmlrpclib
> make it so.
>
>
> > and keep track of what is
> > installed into site-package directory through this mechanism?
>
> PEP 262 is an attempt to address this:
>
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0262.html
>
> A large amount of discussion exists around whether Python
> *should* have such a
> database, or whether we should leave such things up to the
> Operating System
> packaging mechanisms (rpm, deb, etc.) I fall in the latter
> category at the
> moment.
>
>
> > The problem I see is that maintaining 3rd party libraries in
> > site-package is a task for system admins or developers, especially
> > when new versions of Python is installed (say from Python 2.3 to
> > Python 2.4).
>
> The Ubuntu people have ideas about addressing this for
> pure-python packages,
> but they include massive amounts of symlinks, and just not
> bothering with
> trying to address cross-version issues when they hit a
> non-pure-python
> package (ie. one that has a C extension). I think. It's all
> still a bit
> vague :)
>
>
> > All of the libraries (esp those with C modules) needs to be
> > recompiled. Is there a mechanism for the programmers to
> find out what
> > is installed in say, Python2.3's site-packages and download
> the same
> > modules from PyPI and install them in Python2.4's site-packages?
>
> I believe PEP 246 is intended to have this kind of
> information. Feel free to
> read and flesh it out. And implement it.
>
>
> Richard
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFCcgPKrGisBEHG6TARArtCAJ0WDFvJ7vZviKrx0VAJsU+2p9MRmgCeMv8N
> Gjcpk6OA4tuqUQmAAJzuPjw=
> =zir+
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Catalog-sig mailing list
> Catalog-sig@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig
>
From ktenney at gmail.com Fri Apr 29 17:52:26 2005
From: ktenney at gmail.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Fri Apr 29 17:52:29 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] Package maintenance mechanism for Python
In-Reply-To: <A5EC347F51CFD411A47200508B68543C05A4D10D@ukexch001.digitalrum.net>
References: <A5EC347F51CFD411A47200508B68543C05A4D10D@ukexch001.digitalrum.net>
Message-ID: <ca816810504290852614606ba@mail.gmail.com>
I'm just an interested lurker, pardon me if I'm way off base
...
Bram Moolenaar's AAP http://www.a-a-p.org/index.html
has always struck me as a lot of good work on a set of tools
which seem well suited the task at hand here.
Thanks,
Kent
From mauriceling at acm.org Sat Apr 30 06:56:56 2005
From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice LING)
Date: Sat Apr 30 06:57:42 2005
Subject: [Catalog-sig] "implementation" of PEP 262 as an academic project
In-Reply-To: <4272CE91.5080908@acm.org>
References: <1114735502.510591.6360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
<42719DFF.5080504@acm.org>
<1114781419.288939.30840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
<4272CE91.5080908@acm.org>
Message-ID: <42731018.5060700@acm.org>
Hi all,
I reckoned that if I'm on this work, I might as well make it into an
academic engineering-type project for my pass degree. Hence, I am
sending this posting out to everyone to inform of my intentions. Despite
the possible interests in this work, academic requires a 'personal'
project with defined work.
Of course, I do hope that comments and suggestions continue to flow like
milk and honey. If in event I do decide against making it into an
academic project or when it had cease to be academically-focused (i.e.
submitted and passed my thesis), I will have the onus to inform everyone
again through comp.lang.python (python-list) and catalog-sig mailing list.
Thank you everyone for your kind understanding.
Cheers
Maurice
> Hi,
>
> I've just read PEP 262 last night and finds that it does more or less
> describes what I have in mind. However, I am not sure if there is every
> need for such a descriptive database file or something slimmer, like
> Fink's .info files will suffice.
>
> An example of Fink's .info file is:
> ====================================================
> Package: g77
> Version: 3.4.1
> Revision: 1
> BuildDependsOnly: true
> Source: mirror:gnu:gcc/gcc-%v/gcc-%v.tar.bz2
> Source-MD5: 31b459062499f9f68d451db9cbf3205c
> NoSourceDirectory: True
> ConfigureParams: --enable-languages=f77 --infodir='${prefix}/share/info'
> --libexecdir='${prefix}/lib' --disable-shared
> #BuildDepends: dejagnu
> PatchScript: <<
> #!/bin/sh
> cd gcc-%v/gcc
> mv Makefile.in Makefile.in.orig
> sed 's|$(ALL_CPPFLAGS) $(INCLUDES)|$(INCLUDES) $(ALL_CPPFLAGS)|g' <
> Makefile.in.orig > Makefile.in
> <<
> CompileScript: <<
> #!/bin/sh
> mkdir darwin
> cd darwin
> ../gcc-%v/configure %c
> make CFLAGS='-O' LIBCFLAGS='-g -O2' LIBCXXFLAGS='-g -O2
> -fno-implicit-templates' profiledbootstrap
> #cd gcc; make check-g77
> <<
> InstallScript: <<
> #!/bin/sh
> cd darwin
> make install prefix=%i
> cd %i/bin
> /bin/rm -f gcc gccbug cpp gcov powerpc-apple*
> ln -s %p/bin/g77 f77
> darwinvers=`/usr/bin/uname -v | cut -f1 -d":" | awk '{print $4}'`
> gccvers=`%i/bin/g77 -dumpversion | head -1 | cut -f4 -d" "`
> ln -s
> %p/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin${darwinvers}/${gccvers}/include/g2c.h
> %i/include/g2c.h
> /bin/rm -rf %i/share/locale %i/man
> /bin/rm -f %i/lib/charset.alias
> /bin/rm -f %i/share/info/gcc* %i/share/info/cpp*
> /bin/mv -f %i/lib/libiberty.a %i/lib/libiberty-g77.a
> <<
> License: GPL
> DocFiles: gcc-%v/gcc/f/ChangeLog gcc-%v/COPYING gcc-%v/COPYING.LIB
> Description: GNU Fortran compiler
> DescDetail: <<
> g77 consists of several components:
>
> 1) The g77 command itself.
> 2) The libg2c run-time library. This library contains the
> machine code needed to support capabilities of the Fortran
> language that are not directly provided by the machine code
> generated by the g77 compilation phase.
> 3) The compiler itself, internally named f771.
> f771 does not generate machine code directly --
> it generates assembly code, leaving the conversion to
> actual machine code to an assembler, usually named as.
>
> g77 supports some fortran90 features, like automatic arrays,
> free source form, and DO WHILE.
> <<
> DescPort: <<
> Installs g77 from the FSF gcc distribution.
>
> This version does not install in /usr. It contains it's own cc1 and
> libgcc.a installed in %p.
>
> libiberty.a moved to libiberty-g77.a to avoid conflict with ddd.
> <<
> DescUsage: <<
> If you get unresolved symbol '_saveFP', add -lcc_dynamic when linking.
>
> Does not support -framework argument, to link frameworks use -Wl flag
> (for example, to link vecLib use "-Wl,-framework -Wl,vecLib").
>
> No man page, use "info g77".
> <<
> Homepage: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77/
> Maintainer: Jeffrey Whitaker <jswhit@fastmail.fm>
> ================================================================================
>
>
> Implementing the API specified in PEP 262 is desirable.
>
> What I am thinking is this,
>
> 1. when user specify a package to install, the package's .info file will
> be looked up in 'pkginfo' directory (in PEP 262, it is the INSTALLDB
> directory that holds all these .info files).
>
> 2. to the system, only 3 things are crucial: where to get the package?
> what packages the package needs? how to install? These 3 things are the
> real critical parts of .info file, the rest are information and metadata.
>
> 3. from the dependencies, the system now creates a tree of dependencies.
> Can all dependencies be satisfied, i.e. are there any required packages
> that are not in standard library and there is no .info file for?
>
> 4. dependencies are satisfied (install the packages) from terminal leaf
> nodes on the dependency tree to the root node (which is the one the user
> wants to install)
>
> 5. appropriate entries are made in appropriate files (i.e.
> pkg-install.log) to signify which packages are installed.
>
> 6. satisfy the files needed for API requirements of PEP 262.
>
> Please tell me what you think...
>
>
> Cheers
> Maurice