From martin at v.loewis.de Sat Oct 3 19:57:47 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 19:57:47 +0200 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Rating feature In-Reply-To: <b654cd2e0909241224k20f20549yb0ebc3a580597d81@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AB145CD.900@v.loewis.de> <b654cd2e0909241224k20f20549yb0ebc3a580597d81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC7909B.1090905@v.loewis.de> > A few thoughts: Thanks! that's a lot of feature requests. If any of them are particularly important to you, please add them to the tracker. > * On hgsvn I see some points, but no indication on the scale. That is, > there's 1 and 2 points, but out of... 5? Once I'm logged in I can see > the scale, but not until then. This is now fixed. > * There's a bunch of different ideas on how to average scores. I don't > have an opinions at the moment, except that we keep enough data to > change the algorithm in the future. Specifically the score, user, date > (i.e., not just aggregate information). Most certainly. Currently, I have CREATE TABLE ratings( name TEXT, version TEXT, user_name TEXT REFERENCES users ON DELETE CASCADE, date TIMESTAMP, rating INTEGER, message TEXT, PRIMARY KEY (name, version, user_name), FOREIGN KEY (name, version) REFERENCES releases ON UPDATE CASCADE ON DELETE CASCADE ); Keeping individual ratings is already necessary because users can also withdraw their rating. > * I expect the comment/rating activity to be relatively low, so throwing > everything away on every release seems problematic. For comments > specifically it would be nice if they remained, though maybe old > comments could be hid by the maintainer (or by anyone?) Hiding might > just put them in a place where they were hidden (visible with a > Javascript control). Scoring I'm less sure about; you could weight > scores according to their distance from the current release. Or throw > them away as you are doing now; I'm generally less concerned with > scoring than comments. Users have a fairly easy user interface to forward their comments from a previous release. So if the comment still applies, and they care, they can repost it. Again, people proposing the feature made a point that per-release comments may become invalid with newer releases, so I think they do need to get reevaluated by the authors. One option could be to have a checkbox to post an "eternal" comment; I'd postpone that until users actually request it. > * Since people can and will report problems (like with hgsvn), it would > be nice if the comments were threaded so that problems could be > responded to. How does that work? Would each comment have an "in-reply-to" field? In any case, this sounds complicated to implement. > * Because people report problems anyplace they can, this is going to be > hard for some maintainers, because there will be unanswered questions > the maintainer won't be aware of. Emailing new comments would be really > helpful (maybe as a user preference). This is now fixed; they get emailed unconditionally, to all Maintainers and Owners. > * Comments on Trove classifiers would be nice. Though right now the > classifiers are too hard to find and the actual categories not well used > or complete enough. But if they *were* well used, this would be a place > for people to put comparative comments (e.g., on this page for XML: > http://pypi.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&show=all&c=500 > <http://pypi.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&show=all&c=500> -- but > getting to that page was really hard). I don't quite understand. You want to comment on a trove classifier? Like commenting on "Topic :: Text Processing :: Markup :: HTML" "This is way better than XML"??? I don't understand why you say they are hard to find: the list of classifiers is linked on each and every PyPI page, as "List trove classifiers". What do you mean? > * Generally I think it would be a lot more useful to people finding > packages if there were topic guides, which would have a description of a > class of tasks (like parsing XML) and a user-curated list of packages > that apply. In theory the wiki could be used for this, and people try > to use it for this, but it's not very successful > (e.g., http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks -- which is a lot > better than it has been at many points in the past). Having a list of > packages with the age of the last release, the score of the package, > Development Status trove classifier, the short description from PyPI, > etc. would make a much nicer list. But it has to be curated -- package > maintainers don't consistently use package metadata well enough to make > this work. I don't think this can possibly work. Each and every directory that was user-maintained has failed, AFAICT; wikipedia is the only exception (and only because it isn't *just* a directory). So I would leave this in the realm of the wikis indeed. If users care to contribute - fine. If nobody cares, then users will have to find relevant information themselves. > * Can you not comment on your own packages? Not scoring is fine, but > comments should be available. I guess this goes along with the threading. For plain comments, I wonder why you couldn't put what you want to say into the long_description (which also makes it part of subsequent releases). > * It would be nice to have a field that links to an issue tracker or > forum of some sorts, and display that right next to the comment box, > like "If you have an issue use <project's issue tracker>". For the package, or per release? If it is per release, you need to get this into distutils also, and it would be subject to distutils-sig. In any case, this is out of scope and independent of the rating feature. > hgsvn is an > example of when that isn't used. Alternately a field that would render > right next to the comment box (ReST) where the project can give > instructions (like: if you need help, jump on #project on > irc.freenode.net <http://irc.freenode.net>, or `submit a bug <...>`_ or > `search our mailing list <...>`_). Free text would probably be better, > as it gives full flexibility. That sounds like overkill - people can already put that into long_description (and typically do). Just make a ReST section Reporting Bugs. > > * Less flexibly, a default message about what should go in comments > would be helpful. I'm not sure what the description should be, but just > "comment" isn't enough IMHO. If you propose a text, I'll likely copy it literally. Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Sat Oct 10 01:42:38 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:42:38 +0200 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Category classifier request In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0909250325g60863f4frb605169412592c84@mail.gmail.com> References: <5023e5b80909191838o51af3e3bu8db9b84059dad9ea@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0909220519r5916b723k7efc02599fc071da@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8CF44.2040602@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0909250325g60863f4frb605169412592c84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACFCA6E.6060705@v.loewis.de> > Josh, do you have any objections to 'Library :: pygame' ? Reconsidering, it seems that we currently don't have Library as a top-level classifier, nor does SF. Instead, if you want to classify something as related to pygame, then Topic :: Software Development :: Libraries :: pygame might be appropriate. Regards, Martin From szybalski at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 05:37:40 2009 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:37:40 -0500 Subject: [Catalog-sig] rst not rendering Message-ID: <804e5c70910092037h49801e7cxc314aa597c407646@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Any idea how to test rst so it renders properly. This rst displays just fine in moinmoin, so is there anything special about Pypi as far as rendering? Any special characters ? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/modwsgideploy/0.4.19dev Thanks, Lucas From lists at zopyx.com Sat Oct 10 08:14:41 2009 From: lists at zopyx.com (Andreas Jung) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:14:41 +0200 Subject: [Catalog-sig] rst not rendering In-Reply-To: <804e5c70910092037h49801e7cxc314aa597c407646@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70910092037h49801e7cxc314aa597c407646@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD02651.3090006@zopyx.com> Use rst2html from the docutils package for checking your reST for errors. -aj Am 10.10.09 05:37, schrieb Lukasz Szybalski: > Hello, > > Any idea how to test rst so it renders properly. This rst displays > just fine in moinmoin, so is there anything special about Pypi as far > as rendering? > > Any special characters ? > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/modwsgideploy/0.4.19dev > > Thanks, > Lucas > _______________________________________________ > Catalog-SIG mailing list > Catalog-SIG at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/catalog-sig > -- ZOPYX Ltd. & Co KG \ ZOPYX & Friends Charlottenstr. 37/1 \ The experts for your Python, Zope and D-72070 T?bingen \ Plone projects www.zopyx.com, info at zopyx.com \ www.zopyx.de/friends, friends at zopyx.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------ E-Publishing, Python, Zope & Plone development, Consulting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lists.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 316 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/attachments/20091010/1c932356/attachment.vcf> From martin at v.loewis.de Sat Oct 10 10:07:32 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:07:32 +0200 Subject: [Catalog-sig] rst not rendering In-Reply-To: <804e5c70910092037h49801e7cxc314aa597c407646@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70910092037h49801e7cxc314aa597c407646@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD040C4.7090808@v.loewis.de> > Any idea how to test rst so it renders properly. This rst displays > just fine in moinmoin, so is there anything special about Pypi as far > as rendering? You can try rendering it locally, with the function processDescription in https://svn.python.org/packages/trunk/pypi/store.py Regards, Martin From renesd at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 11:22:20 2009 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:22:20 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Category classifier request In-Reply-To: <4ACFCA6E.6060705@v.loewis.de> References: <5023e5b80909191838o51af3e3bu8db9b84059dad9ea@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0909220519r5916b723k7efc02599fc071da@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8CF44.2040602@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0909250325g60863f4frb605169412592c84@mail.gmail.com> <4ACFCA6E.6060705@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <64ddb72c0910120222o73629a3bo1d56cc594138a89a@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 12:42 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>wrote: > > Josh, do you have any objections to 'Library :: pygame' ? > > Reconsidering, it seems that we currently don't have Library > as a top-level classifier, nor does SF. Instead, if you want to > classify something as related to pygame, then > > Topic :: Software Development :: Libraries :: pygame > > might be appropriate. > > Regards, > Martin > That sounds good. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/attachments/20091012/8c738daa/attachment.htm> From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Oct 13 17:07:22 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:07:22 +0800 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Category classifier request In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0910120222o73629a3bo1d56cc594138a89a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5023e5b80909191838o51af3e3bu8db9b84059dad9ea@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0909220519r5916b723k7efc02599fc071da@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8CF44.2040602@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0909250325g60863f4frb605169412592c84@mail.gmail.com> <4ACFCA6E.6060705@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0910120222o73629a3bo1d56cc594138a89a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD497AA.9020409@v.loewis.de> > Topic :: Software Development :: Libraries :: pygame > > That sounds good. Ok, created. Regards, Martin From renesd at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 13:12:52 2009 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:12:52 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Category classifier request In-Reply-To: <4AD497AA.9020409@v.loewis.de> References: <5023e5b80909191838o51af3e3bu8db9b84059dad9ea@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0909220519r5916b723k7efc02599fc071da@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8CF44.2040602@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0909250325g60863f4frb605169412592c84@mail.gmail.com> <4ACFCA6E.6060705@v.loewis.de> <64ddb72c0910120222o73629a3bo1d56cc594138a89a@mail.gmail.com> <4AD497AA.9020409@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <64ddb72c0910140412j3a29c068x1190c45d77a22f26@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:07 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>wrote: > > Topic :: Software Development :: Libraries :: pygame > > > > That sounds good. > > Ok, created. > > Regards, > Martin > awesome, thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/catalog-sig/attachments/20091014/5ecb994f/attachment.htm> From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Oct 27 21:26:40 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:26:40 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI comment replies Message-ID: <4AE75780.2060505@v.loewis.de> A number of people have requested the ability for package authors to reply to comments that users made on a package; I have now added such a mechanism. To reply, login in and select the appropriate reply link. Email will be sent both to the OP, and to the package maintainer. Regards, Martin From ziade.tarek at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 21:29:53 2009 From: ziade.tarek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:29:53 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI comment replies In-Reply-To: <4AE75780.2060505@v.loewis.de> References: <4AE75780.2060505@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <94bdd2610910271329v1061838w4477571a7bd44d78@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:26 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote: > A number of people have requested the ability for package > authors to reply to comments that users made on a package; > I have now added such a mechanism. > > To reply, login in and select the appropriate reply link. > Email will be sent both to the OP, and to the package > maintainer. Thanks ! btw: I've missed a comment once in my mail flows, because the sender is just "richard" (richard at python.org) and the subject text is quite unspecific. I'd suggest adding a clearer sender, (like "PyPI Manager <richard at python.org>" maybe) Tarek From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Oct 27 21:32:06 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:32:06 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] Package comments Message-ID: <4AE758C6.2020201@v.loewis.de> Some package maintainers are unhappy with the recent addition of a rating-and-comment facility in PyPI; they don't want to see user comments on their package page (the rating itself is not being challenged, AFAIU). At the same time, I believe that users very much want to see comments on a package page, telling them whether the package is useful or not (in particular if it has received low ratings). As it is difficult to get the community opinion on this particular issue, I plan to hold a poll. In preparation for that, I started collecting arguments for both sides on http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPIComments Feel free to add arguments that you think are missing in these lists; please refrain from removing arguments (even if you think they are flawed). Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Tue Oct 27 21:34:13 2009 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:34:13 +0100 Subject: [Catalog-sig] PyPI comment replies In-Reply-To: <94bdd2610910271329v1061838w4477571a7bd44d78@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AE75780.2060505@v.loewis.de> <94bdd2610910271329v1061838w4477571a7bd44d78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE75945.1030701@v.loewis.de> > I'd suggest adding a clearer sender, (like "PyPI Manager > <richard at python.org>" maybe) I've added this to my code, and will deploy it after testing (but not today). Regards, Martin