From brian at planetshwoop.com  Wed Feb  1 23:27:46 2006
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:27:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Recommendation for RSS generator?
Message-ID: <52581.4.17.250.5.1138832866.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>


hello everyone --

For a project I'm working on I need to generate some RSS feeds.  There seems
to be quite a few different libraries for doing this.  Anyone have one they
prefer over another or recommendations they could offer?

thanks

brian

--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/


From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Thu Feb  2 13:28:21 2006
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert C. Ramsdell III)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 06:28:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] More python in games
Message-ID: <1138883301.12724.8.camel@Virginia>

One of my favorite free strategy games is Wesnoth (www.wesnoth.org).
The game has slightly off-putting cutesy graphics, that recall the
gaming state-of-the-art circa early to mid nineties.  But it has very
good turn-based strategy gameplay including single-player campaigns and
multi-player games over the internet.  Plus it's 100% free (beer and
otherwise) and in active development.

The latest development release now has python scripting for the ai
(http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/ReferencePythonAPI).  The developers have
provided a python interface to the helper functions that the game uses
in it's ai.

-- 
Robert C. Ramsdell III
5528 Middaugh Avenue
Downers Grove, IL 60516
(630) 435-1776
rcriii at ramsdells.net


From ehs at pobox.com  Thu Feb  2 17:25:11 2006
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:25:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Recommendation for RSS generator?
In-Reply-To: <52581.4.17.250.5.1138832866.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <52581.4.17.250.5.1138832866.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <f032cc060602020825p497e75d4r9439dbdede2a6b30@mail.gmail.com>

elementtree [1] is pretty nice for generating xml--and (if you believe
blog hearsay) it might be appearing in the 2.5 core. Sure you'll have
to add the elements yourself, but you might appreciate that control
later.

//Ed

[1] http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm
[2] http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/8748

From ehs at pobox.com  Thu Feb  2 18:58:29 2006
From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:58:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] More python in games
In-Reply-To: <1138883301.12724.8.camel@Virginia>
References: <1138883301.12724.8.camel@Virginia>
Message-ID: <f032cc060602020958v7e55186x9b7449927fde13c3@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/2/06, Robert C. Ramsdell III <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:
The latest development release now has python scripting for the ai
> (http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/ReferencePythonAPI).  The developers have
> provided a python interface to the helper functions that the game uses
> in it's ai.

Neat. We should totally have a python gaming event sometime.

//Ed

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Feb  2 19:38:20 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:38:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] More python in games
In-Reply-To: <f032cc060602020958v7e55186x9b7449927fde13c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1138883301.12724.8.camel@Virginia>
	<f032cc060602020958v7e55186x9b7449927fde13c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E2519C.4090407@colorstudy.com>

Ed Summers wrote:
> On 2/2/06, Robert C. Ramsdell III <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:
> The latest development release now has python scripting for the ai
> 
>>(http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/ReferencePythonAPI).  The developers have
>>provided a python interface to the helper functions that the game uses
>>in it's ai.
> 
> 
> Neat. We should totally have a python gaming event sometime.

There's that Python game contest too...

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From PRobare at chx.com  Fri Feb  3 00:06:54 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:06:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python On Lisp: A project to call Python code from Lisp
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB66F@MX3.chx.com>

I just stumbled across this project at 
http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/
And thought it may be of interest to some on this list.

Their idea is to embed a Python interpreter within Lisp and allow Python
to call back to Lisp by eval'ing a Lisp string.  They state are in an
early alpha mode (no code or executable published yet).

I guess I am wondering why, if someone knows Python well enough, would
they opt for Lisp.  We have forty years of language design behind us
since the original language was published.  In my experience algorithms
in lisp are almost as opaque as those in Perl.  The macro facility in
Lisp is probably more straight-forward than doing something similar in
Python - but that may be my lack of breadth in Python.  Certainly
dealing with a complex graph data structure in Python is much easier
IMHO.  And the OO constructs in Lisp are near to the limit of a human's
ability to deal with complexity.

If I want to go on in this way I should probably blog it instead of
spamming all of you with my opinions.  But I would be interested in your
takes on this project.

Phil Robare
Consultant
Chicago Stock Exchange

From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 03:09:05 2006
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:09:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python On Lisp: A project to call Python code from
	Lisp
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB66F@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB66F@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d60602021809y392f1119v915c5a6822d04669@mail.gmail.com>

Lisp has a direct elegance that you cannot match with a strictly
imperative language like Python.  The thing I'd be interested in is
the possibility of speed and mixing of languages.  Speed because
Python and Lisp have much larger similarities than Python and C, and
Lisp can sometimes be faster than C.  Mixing, because If one could
write Lisp that is called by Python directly that would be sweet for
things like AI/robotics and other sorts of scientific research, which
translates very well to Lisp thanks to it's functional programming. 
The problem with Lisp is as you say, the complication, unreadability. 
So if you could drive complicated Lisp functionality with Python
imperative logic, you'd have a really great mix.

On 2/2/06, Robare, Phil <PRobare at chx.com> wrote:
> I just stumbled across this project at
> http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/
> And thought it may be of interest to some on this list.
>
> Their idea is to embed a Python interpreter within Lisp and allow Python
> to call back to Lisp by eval'ing a Lisp string.  They state are in an
> early alpha mode (no code or executable published yet).
>
> I guess I am wondering why, if someone knows Python well enough, would
> they opt for Lisp.  We have forty years of language design behind us
> since the original language was published.  In my experience algorithms
> in lisp are almost as opaque as those in Perl.  The macro facility in
> Lisp is probably more straight-forward than doing something similar in
> Python - but that may be my lack of breadth in Python.  Certainly
> dealing with a complex graph data structure in Python is much easier
> IMHO.  And the OO constructs in Lisp are near to the limit of a human's
> ability to deal with complexity.
>
> If I want to go on in this way I should probably blog it instead of
> spamming all of you with my opinions.  But I would be interested in your
> takes on this project.
>
> Phil Robare
> Consultant
> Chicago Stock Exchange
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 16:03:46 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:03:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
subject "CHIPY RSVP"

I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.  Anyone remember?

Chris

From bray at sent.com  Mon Feb  6 16:12:44 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:12:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37E7537A-E4E5-4E70-940E-2C01A726CB61@sent.com>

I thought we are meeting at Thoughtworks this month.

I am ok with either but the wiki says Thoughtworks. Is this location at:

651 W. Washington Blvd. Suite 600
Chicago, IL 60661
<http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result? 
ed=lF8TUup_0TrBWJe_1dnNPXEh_5IpBT2INXqKQZildA--&csz=Chicago%2C 
+IL&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=>

Can somebody confirm?

On Feb 6, 2006, at 9:03 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> subject "CHIPY RSVP"
>
> I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.   
> Anyone remember?
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 16:52:49 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:52:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <37E7537A-E4E5-4E70-940E-2C01A726CB61@sent.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<37E7537A-E4E5-4E70-940E-2C01A726CB61@sent.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm fine with Thoughtworks or Performics...they're both good spots.

Chris

On 2/6/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> I thought we are meeting at Thoughtworks this month.
>
> I am ok with either but the wiki says Thoughtworks. Is this location at:
>
> 651 W. Washington Blvd. Suite 600
> Chicago, IL 60661
> <http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?
> ed=lF8TUup_0TrBWJe_1dnNPXEh_5IpBT2INXqKQZildA--&csz=Chicago%2C
> +IL&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=>
>
> Can somebody confirm?
>
> On Feb 6, 2006, at 9:03 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> > We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> > subject "CHIPY RSVP"
> >
> > I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.
> > Anyone remember?
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 17:28:04 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:28:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<37E7537A-E4E5-4E70-940E-2C01A726CB61@sent.com>
	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>

Suggest we stick with the prior Thoughtworks decision if Jason
confirms soon. Jason?

Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?

I have a goofy code generation hack that I could spend a half hour on;
maybe it will attract some scientist types. It's called, um, "Passing
NetCDF numerical arrays and metadata between Python and C through the
filesystem" or "I never met a metaprogram I didn't like." But I'd
rather save it for March if there's enough PyCon material. I have
noticed that at least three of us will be presenting at PyCon.

mt

On 2/6/06, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm fine with Thoughtworks or Performics...they're both good spots.
>
> Chris
>
> On 2/6/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> > I thought we are meeting at Thoughtworks this month.
> >
> > I am ok with either but the wiki says Thoughtworks. Is this location at:
> >
> > 651 W. Washington Blvd. Suite 600
> > Chicago, IL 60661
> > <http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?
> > ed=lF8TUup_0TrBWJe_1dnNPXEh_5IpBT2INXqKQZildA--&csz=Chicago%2C
> > +IL&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=>
> >
> > Can somebody confirm?
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2006, at 9:03 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> > > We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> > > subject "CHIPY RSVP"
> > >
> > > I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.
> > > Anyone remember?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chipy at holovaty.com  Mon Feb  6 17:41:54 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:41:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?

I recently wrote a Python screen scraper for Microsoft Outlook Web Access that 
downloads messages and acts as a POP proxy so I can use my own e-mail client 
instead of the godawful Outlook Web interface. I'd be happy to spend some 
time explaining that, maybe going over how the reverse engineering/scraping 
worked.

Adrian

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 17:48:47 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] MEETING/TALK: Feb 6, 2006 with Mark Jason Dominus
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0601200822y5c5a954i3320fc3d3cdb31a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060108002828.GA32466@petdance.com>
	<3096c19d0601200822y5c5a954i3320fc3d3cdb31a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602060848u59a36dc2t75ab91f0ffaba0e8@mail.gmail.com>

This seems to be happening tonight. I may or may not be going
depending on whether I manage to get some other stuff done by 4 PM. If
anyone is interested in a ride from Hyde Park or the Loop, let me
know, but please understand that I am not making promises at this
point.

Also note the RSVP.

This HOP book was my second choice for Book Club after SICP, for what
that's worth.

mt

On 1/20/06, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Chipy,
>
> Although we're all Py-igots, this might be interesting to some.  The
> speaker's book "Higher Order Perl" is a really good overview of
> functional programming.  We threw it around as a possible book club
> book a while back, and I distinctly remember seeing it on M Tobis'
> book shelf, so it has to be good (right?)
>
> I think this talk may be somewhat Perl-centric, but it may not be.
> Regardless, I wanted to make sure it was passed to you all.
>
> Word,
> Chris
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andy Lester <andy at petdance.com>
> Date: Jan 7, 2006 6:28 PM
> Subject: [Chicago-talk] MEETING/TALK: Feb 6, 2006 with Mark Jason Dominus
> To: chicago-talk at mail.pm.org, chicago-announce at mail.pm.org
>
>
> [Please feel free to forward to other area groups.  Mark is a great
> speaker and well worth the trip. -- Andy]
>
> Mark Jason Dominus
>
> Illinois Institute Of Technology, Rice Campus
> Auditorium, room 166
> 201 East Loop Road
> Wheaton, IL
> http://www.rice.iit.edu/directions.html
>
> Chicago Perl Mongers is proud to welcome Mark Jason Dominus, author of
> "Higher-Order Perl," to the February meeting of Chicago.pm. Mark will be
> talking about the book he's currently working on, Perl Program Repair Shop
> and Red Flags. We'll be giving away a copy of Mark's book "Higher-Order
> Perl" as well as other swag.
>
> MJD is a very popular speaker, and we expect a large turnout. Please
> let us know you plan to attend by emailing andy at petdance.com with "MJD"
> in the subject.
>
> As preparation, Mark has asked Chicago PMers to read the following:
>
>     I'm writing a new book, which I hope will be published in 2007. It's
>     about code review and refactoring in Perl. (For more complete
>     information, please see http://perl.plover.com/flagbook/.)
>
>     To do this right, I need real examples of real code that other people
>     wrote. I'll review the code and fix it up, and explain in the book
>     what I did and why.
>
>     I have about half the examples that I need. I hope that the Perl
>     community can provide the other half.
>
>     For the next year, I'll be travelling around speaking to Perl Mongers
>     groups about this. I'd like to give about one talk each month for
>     the rest of the year.
>
>     What I hope will happen is that a group will invite me to come speak,
>     and that some of the group members will send me some example code
>     ahead of time. Then I'll read over the code, write up a talk about
>     how I think it could be improved, and come visit the group and give
>     the talk. After I go home again, I'l write up a book chapter about
>     the code, incorporating the points that the PM group raised when I
>     gave the talk.
>
>     Guidelines for code contributions are at
>
>         http://perl.plover.com/flagbook/contribute.html
>
>     I need your contributions no later than January 17th. To contribute,
>     send code to: mjd at plover.com. Questions? Send to mjd at plover.com.
>
>     Thanks a lot for having me in to speak.
>
> For questions about this or any other upcoming meeting, please email
> Andy Lester at andy at petdance.com.
>
> --
> Andy Lester => andy at petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago-talk mailing list
> Chicago-talk at pm.org
> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Feb  6 17:50:03 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:50:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43E77E3B.2050401@colorstudy.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> subject "CHIPY RSVP"
> 
> I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.  Anyone remember?

I believe the plan was Brant would talk about Civ 4 scripting.  But that 
has not been confirmed.  Brant?

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 17:54:09 2006
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:54:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <43E77E3B.2050401@colorstudy.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E77E3B.2050401@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d60602060854o7d83ccbex37ae3209586c4fe3@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I was hoping that wouldn't come up.  I'm so busy that I really
don't think I can put something together by thursday.  A major
organizational shift at my company is giving me big headaches.

On 2/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Chris McAvoy wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> > We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> > subject "CHIPY RSVP"
> >
> > I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.  Anyone remember?
>
> I believe the plan was Brant would talk about Civ 4 scripting.  But that
> has not been confirmed.  Brant?
>
> --
> Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 17:58:43 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:58:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <694c06d60602060854o7d83ccbex37ae3209586c4fe3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<43E77E3B.2050401@colorstudy.com>
	<694c06d60602060854o7d83ccbex37ae3209586c4fe3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602060858x7e5fb4fctbd9a7bf280595138@mail.gmail.com>

Once things cool down, we should maybe have a special Saturday Python
game scripting thing...I get the feeling we could pull in some teens,
and push Python on them.  It might be a good "community outreach" type
meeting.

Chris

On 2/6/06, Brant Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I was hoping that wouldn't come up.  I'm so busy that I really
> don't think I can put something together by thursday.  A major
> organizational shift at my company is giving me big headaches.
>
> On 2/6/06, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > Chris McAvoy wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > February meeting is this Thursday.  Performics has agreed to host.
> > > We'll have to have a sign in again, so send me your RSVP with the
> > > subject "CHIPY RSVP"
> > >
> > > I think we have a subject for February, but I'm not 100% sure.  Anyone remember?
> >
> > I believe the plan was Brant would talk about Civ 4 scripting.  But that
> > has not been confirmed.  Brant?
> >
> > --
> > Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Mon Feb  6 18:11:17 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:11:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF3859ED79.0DF5738B-ON8625710D.005BE2E4-8625710D.005E6AFB@thoughtworks.com>

chicago-bounces at python.org wrote on 02/06/2006 10:28:04 AM:
> Suggest we stick with the prior Thoughtworks decision if Jason
> confirms soon. Jason?

Hi, all,

I'm still hoping/happy to host it this month... I'll check with our 
facilities folks today to make sure everything is still copacetic.

-Jason

P.S. Regarding topics...  Among all the hoopla generated by Guido's blog 
postings last week, he suggested a web framework shoot-out. (Ugh. Web 
frameworks. Groan.) Yes, I know. But for arguments sake, if someone were 
to create a type of "consumer reports" for Python web framework shoppers, 
how would those frameworks be rated and compared in a fair way? Which 
metrics are useful? (lines of code, mailing list traffic, google hits, 
"case studies"?)...  Is there usefulness in discussing this? (Once we get 
that problem solved, we can tackle the *real* problem: the proliferation 
of Python based 3d frameworks-- How are all those poor Python developers 
ever going to find the time to evaluate a framework before building their 
winning pygame.org entry?!)



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Feb  6 18:21:16 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 11:21:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <OF3859ED79.0DF5738B-ON8625710D.005BE2E4-8625710D.005E6AFB@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OF3859ED79.0DF5738B-ON8625710D.005BE2E4-8625710D.005E6AFB@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <43E7858C.30601@colorstudy.com>

Jason R Huggins wrote:
> P.S. Regarding topics...  Among all the hoopla generated by Guido's blog 
> postings last week, he suggested a web framework shoot-out. (Ugh. Web 
> frameworks. Groan.) Yes, I know. But for arguments sake, if someone were 
> to create a type of "consumer reports" for Python web framework shoppers, 
> how would those frameworks be rated and compared in a fair way? Which 
> metrics are useful? (lines of code, mailing list traffic, google hits, 
> "case studies"?)...  Is there usefulness in discussing this? (Once we get 
> that problem solved, we can tackle the *real* problem: the proliferation 
> of Python based 3d frameworks-- How are all those poor Python developers 
> ever going to find the time to evaluate a framework before building their 
> winning pygame.org entry?!)

Maybe instead of web frameworks, we could do something less ambitious -- 
templating languages?  *I* don't really feel like a web framework 
shootout at the moment.

We also have an outlook/screenscraping talk from Adrian.  Does that use 
Beautiful Soup?  Or would someone like to talk about Beautiful Soup?  I 
could try to give one of my PyCon talks.  I would actually have to write 
it, though; but that would probably be good for me to do.


-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chipy at holovaty.com  Mon Feb  6 18:30:19 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:30:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <43E7858C.30601@colorstudy.com>
References: <OF3859ED79.0DF5738B-ON8625710D.005BE2E4-8625710D.005E6AFB@thoughtworks.com>
	<43E7858C.30601@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <200602061130.19231.chipy@holovaty.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> We also have an outlook/screenscraping talk from Adrian.  Does that use
> Beautiful Soup?  Or would someone like to talk about Beautiful Soup?

The screenscraper in my potential talk just uses regular expressions, no 
higher-level crawling/scraping libraries. The meat of the presentation would 
be reverse engineering how the Outlook Web interface works, like analyzing 
the HTTP headers and cookies and stuff.

Anyway, it's just a thought -- I don't want to get in the way of anything more 
interesting. :)

Adrian

From jason at multiply.org  Mon Feb  6 19:05:47 2006
From: jason at multiply.org (Jason Gessner)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:05:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
Message-ID: <8E9D495C-51F7-48FC-893D-96D81641F0AC@multiply.org>

adrian, can you share that code with me or the group please?  :)

-jason


On Feb 6, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Adrian Holovaty wrote:

> Michael Tobis wrote:
>> Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?
>
> I recently wrote a Python screen scraper for Microsoft Outlook Web  
> Access that
> downloads messages and acts as a POP proxy so I can use my own e- 
> mail client
> instead of the godawful Outlook Web interface. I'd be happy to  
> spend some
> time explaining that, maybe going over how the reverse engineering/ 
> scraping
> worked.
>
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 19:49:54 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:49:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <200602061130.19231.chipy@holovaty.com>
References: <OF3859ED79.0DF5738B-ON8625710D.005BE2E4-8625710D.005E6AFB@thoughtworks.com>
	<43E7858C.30601@colorstudy.com>
	<200602061130.19231.chipy@holovaty.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Adrian's Outlook talk and +1 for Ian's PyCon dry run #1 or
Ian's PyCon dry run #2.

mt

On 2/6/06, Adrian Holovaty <chipy at holovaty.com> wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > We also have an outlook/screenscraping talk from Adrian.  Does that use
> > Beautiful Soup?  Or would someone like to talk about Beautiful Soup?
>
> The screenscraper in my potential talk just uses regular expressions, no
> higher-level crawling/scraping libraries. The meat of the presentation would
> be reverse engineering how the Outlook Web interface works, like analyzing
> the HTTP headers and cookies and stuff.
>
> Anyway, it's just a thought -- I don't want to get in the way of anything more
> interesting. :)
>
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Mon Feb  6 20:35:29 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:35:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>

I've double-checked with the folks here at TW... Everything is "go" for 
hosting the meeting this week at ThoughtWorks. There is even a small 
budget for pizza. (Shh... don't tell your starving college buddies.)

Is that cool with everyone? Or do we need to have a virtual 
rock-paper-scissors match to decide between TW vs Perfomics? (In that 
case, I'm going with "rock"-- good old rock, nothing beats rock!)

- Jason

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 20:58:17 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:58:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>
References: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>

Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with fists.

Luckily, I'm not a real man.  So, Thoughtworks wins.  Pizza put you
over the top.

Chris

On 2/6/06, Jason R Huggins <JRHuggins at thoughtworks.com> wrote:
> I've double-checked with the folks here at TW... Everything is "go" for
> hosting the meeting this week at ThoughtWorks. There is even a small
> budget for pizza. (Shh... don't tell your starving college buddies.)
>
> Is that cool with everyone? Or do we need to have a virtual
> rock-paper-scissors match to decide between TW vs Perfomics? (In that
> case, I'm going with "rock"-- good old rock, nothing beats rock!)
>
> - Jason
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Mon Feb  6 21:04:46 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:04:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF0932E69B.7C625CF4-ON8625710D.006DD4AD-8625710D.006E4CE1@thoughtworks.com>

As they say, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Except for 
in "Indiana Jones II", where going straight through the rib-cage worked 
just as well. On that note, See You On Thursday!! :-)

-Jason

Chris McAvoy wrote on 02/06/2006 01:58:17 PM:

> Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with fists.
> 
> Luckily, I'm not a real man.  So, Thoughtworks wins.  Pizza put you
> over the top.

From david at graniteweb.com  Mon Feb  6 21:44:31 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:44:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
Message-ID: <20060206204431.GB15480@wdfs.attbi.com>

* Adrian Holovaty <chipy at holovaty.com> [2006-02-06 10:41]:
> Michael Tobis wrote:
> > Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?
> 
> I recently wrote a Python screen scraper for Microsoft Outlook Web Access that 
> downloads messages and acts as a POP proxy so I can use my own e-mail client 
> instead of the godawful Outlook Web interface. I'd be happy to spend some 
> time explaining that, maybe going over how the reverse engineering/scraping 
> worked.

oohhhh.... neat!

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Mon Feb  6 21:35:00 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:35:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
Message-ID: <20060206202953.4B130186841@server2.mojave-corp.com>

I know it's probably in one of the emails from this thread, but the meeting is scheduled for 7, yes?

Garrett

On Monday, February 06, 2006 2:05 PM, chicago-bounces at python.org wrote:

> As they say, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Except
> for in "Indiana Jones II", where going straight through the rib-cage
> worked just as well. On that note, See You On Thursday!! :-)
> 
> -Jason
> 
> Chris McAvoy wrote on 02/06/2006 01:58:17 PM:
> 
>> Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with
>> fists. 
>> 
>> Luckily, I'm not a real man.  So, Thoughtworks wins.  Pizza put you
>> over the top.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



From chris at copester.com  Mon Feb  6 21:28:34 2006
From: chris at copester.com (Chris Cope)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:28:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <OF0932E69B.7C625CF4-ON8625710D.006DD4AD-8625710D.006E4CE1@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OF0932E69B.7C625CF4-ON8625710D.006DD4AD-8625710D.006E4CE1@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <43E7B172.9050303@copester.com>

Having just seen Zoolander, I want to believe theres some sort of coder 
counterpart to the "dance/fight off". Theres the PurePwnage.com micro 
fighting for gamers, but that doesnt seem right. We can make proposals 
at the meeting.

Chris

Jason R Huggins wrote:
> As they say, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Except for 
> in "Indiana Jones II", where going straight through the rib-cage worked 
> just as well. On that note, See You On Thursday!! :-)
> 
> -Jason
> 
> Chris McAvoy wrote on 02/06/2006 01:58:17 PM:
> 
> 
>>Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with fists.
>>
>>Luckily, I'm not a real man.  So, Thoughtworks wins.  Pizza put you
>>over the top.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Feb  6 21:58:12 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:58:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <20060206204431.GB15480@wdfs.attbi.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
	<20060206204431.GB15480@wdfs.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <43E7B864.5070402@pobox.com>

David Rock wrote:
> * Adrian Holovaty <chipy at holovaty.com> [2006-02-06 10:41]:
>> Michael Tobis wrote:
>>> Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?
>> I recently wrote a Python screen scraper for Microsoft Outlook Web Access that 
>> downloads messages and acts as a POP proxy so I can use my own e-mail client 
>> instead of the godawful Outlook Web interface. I'd be happy to spend some 
>> time explaining that, maybe going over how the reverse engineering/scraping 
>> worked.
> 
> oohhhh.... neat!

+1 screenscraping generally

I use pyparsing.  It works pretty well, but would be curious as to what
else folks use.


From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 22:30:15 2006
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brant Harris)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:30:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <43E7B864.5070402@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>
	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
	<20060206204431.GB15480@wdfs.attbi.com> <43E7B864.5070402@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d60602061330q682452dbr7824086a36caa329@mail.gmail.com>

I did some screen scraping off of Magic: The
Gathering<http://www.wizards.com/magic/>, the card game.  I made a
database of all their cards for use with friends.  And I do believe it
was the geekiest thing ever done; truly.

On 2/6/06, Peter Fein <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> David Rock wrote:
> > * Adrian Holovaty <chipy at holovaty.com> [2006-02-06 10:41]:
> >> Michael Tobis wrote:
> >>> Topics? PyCon dry runs? Module of the month?
> >> I recently wrote a Python screen scraper for Microsoft Outlook Web Access that
> >> downloads messages and acts as a POP proxy so I can use my own e-mail client
> >> instead of the godawful Outlook Web interface. I'd be happy to spend some
> >> time explaining that, maybe going over how the reverse engineering/scraping
> >> worked.
> >
> > oohhhh.... neat!
>
> +1 screenscraping generally
>
> I use pyparsing.  It works pretty well, but would be curious as to what
> else folks use.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chipy at holovaty.com  Mon Feb  6 22:35:28 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:35:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <8E9D495C-51F7-48FC-893D-96D81641F0AC@multiply.org>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>
	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
	<8E9D495C-51F7-48FC-893D-96D81641F0AC@multiply.org>
Message-ID: <200602061535.28776.chipy@holovaty.com>

Jason Gessner wrote:
> adrian, can you share that code with me or the group please?  :)

Yeah, totally. I'm going to open-source it when I get a chance to clean it up 
and add documentation. Hopefully tomorrow, but definitely by Thursday.

Adrian

From tcp at uchicago.edu  Mon Feb  6 23:12:19 2006
From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:12:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>
	<3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32EFA320-3510-4B01-A244-762FF7EC023E@uchicago.edu>


On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with  
> fists.

I feel compelled to remind you that rock-paper-scissors is performed  
by using one's fist ;-) --

thus, by logic, you can reason the following... real men don't use  
their fists and real men do use their fists  (equivalent to a & -a)  
whereby we must conclude that, because of that logical contradiction,  
no real men exist.


um, yeah, I needed a break from work...

-ted



From PRobare at chx.com  Mon Feb  6 23:55:54 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:55:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB677@MX3.chx.com>

On Monday, February 06, 2006 4:12 PM Ted Pollari wrote:

> On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> > Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with  
> > fists.

> I feel compelled to remind you that rock-paper-scissors is performed  
> by using one's fist ;-) --

So rock-paper-scissors is fighting with one fist.  The perfect solution
when you're called to fight with one hand tied behind you back.

Phil

-------------------------------------------------
Athiest in an open casket: All dressed up and nowhere to go

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Feb  7 00:27:46 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:27:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <32EFA320-3510-4B01-A244-762FF7EC023E@uchicago.edu>
References: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>	<OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>	<3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<32EFA320-3510-4B01-A244-762FF7EC023E@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <43E7DB72.8030607@colorstudy.com>

Ted Pollari wrote:
> On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> 
> 
>>Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with  
>>fists.
> 
> 
> I feel compelled to remind you that rock-paper-scissors is performed  
> by using one's fist ;-) --
> 
> thus, by logic, 

at this point in your argument a real man would interupt you with a 
roundhouse kick to the head!

you can reason the following... real men don't use
> their fists and real men do use their fists  (equivalent to a & -a)  
> whereby we must conclude that, because of that logical contradiction,  
> no real men exist.
> 
> 
> um, yeah, I needed a break from work...
> 
> -ted
> 


using-chuck-norris-as-a-model-man'ly y'rs,
   Ian


From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Tue Feb  7 01:48:28 2006
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert C. Ramsdell III)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:48:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <43E7DB72.8030607@colorstudy.com>
References: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>
	<3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<32EFA320-3510-4B01-A244-762FF7EC023E@uchicago.edu>
	<43E7DB72.8030607@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <1139273308.7124.4.camel@Virginia>

Leaving Chris and Jason to settle their differences like...er...men.
I'll be going to the meeting.  If anyone wants to carpool from Oakbrook,
I leave at ~6:00.

Robert

On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 17:27 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Ted Pollari wrote:
> > On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with  
> >>fists.
> > 
> > 
> > I feel compelled to remind you that rock-paper-scissors is performed  
> > by using one's fist ;-) --
> > 
> > thus, by logic, 
> 
> at this point in your argument a real man would interupt you with a 
> roundhouse kick to the head!
> 
> you can reason the following... real men don't use
> > their fists and real men do use their fists  (equivalent to a & -a)  
> > whereby we must conclude that, because of that logical contradiction,  
> > no real men exist.
> > 
> > 
> > um, yeah, I needed a break from work...
> > 
> > -ted
> > 
> 
> 
> using-chuck-norris-as-a-model-man'ly y'rs,
>    Ian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
-- 
Robert C. Ramsdell III
5528 Middaugh Avenue
Downers Grove, IL 60516
(630) 435-1776
rcriii at ramsdells.net


From fawad at fawad.net  Tue Feb  7 05:28:01 2006
From: fawad at fawad.net (Fawad Halim)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:28:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday! - decision on hosting at ThoughtWorks?
In-Reply-To: <1139273308.7124.4.camel@Virginia>
References: <c3aa55550602061049y58019314j9c2fc321700cf0e5@mail.gmail.com>	<OFC3CAFD96.D141BCB8-ON8625710D.006A2430-8625710D.006B9E81@thoughtworks.com>	<3096c19d0602061158l71194e30s5cb23fa8197ce0b3@mail.gmail.com>	<32EFA320-3510-4B01-A244-762FF7EC023E@uchicago.edu>	<43E7DB72.8030607@colorstudy.com>
	<1139273308.7124.4.camel@Virginia>
Message-ID: <43E821D1.9070208@fawad.net>

Hi Robert,
	I'd like to take the said ride to the meeting. Could you tell me the 
street address again (I know the general area, just want to be 100% sure)

Regards
-fawad


Robert C. Ramsdell III wrote:
> Leaving Chris and Jason to settle their differences like...er...men.
> I'll be going to the meeting.  If anyone wants to carpool from Oakbrook,
> I leave at ~6:00.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On Mon, 2006-02-06 at 17:27 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
>>Ted Pollari wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Real men don't rock-paper-scissors...real men solve problems with  
>>>>fists.
>>>
>>>
>>>I feel compelled to remind you that rock-paper-scissors is performed  
>>>by using one's fist ;-) --
>>>
>>>thus, by logic, 
>>
>>at this point in your argument a real man would interupt you with a 
>>roundhouse kick to the head!
>>
>>you can reason the following... real men don't use
>>
>>>their fists and real men do use their fists  (equivalent to a & -a)  
>>>whereby we must conclude that, because of that logical contradiction,  
>>>no real men exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>um, yeah, I needed a break from work...
>>>
>>>-ted

From ekm at MacAdie.net  Tue Feb  7 07:28:07 2006
From: ekm at MacAdie.net (Eric MacAdie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:28:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday meeting
Message-ID: <43E83DF7.5030806@MacAdie.net>

When and where is the Thursday meeting? The thread from yesterday went 
off-topic.

EKMacAdie

From ehs at pobox.com  Tue Feb  7 13:59:07 2006
From: ehs at pobox.com (Edward Summers)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:59:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday!
In-Reply-To: <43E7B864.5070402@pobox.com>
References: <3096c19d0602060703u3211b331g684987796856572d@mail.gmail.com>	<3096c19d0602060752w5c1cdc41ib241534b463a60a5@mail.gmail.com>	<c3aa55550602060828r31d80869wf4e2934c24bc0319@mail.gmail.com>	<200602061041.54791.chipy@holovaty.com>
	<20060206204431.GB15480@wdfs.attbi.com>
	<43E7B864.5070402@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DC43334B-4EEB-4E1E-8F7B-95FE69EF79B7@pobox.com>

On Feb 6, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Peter Fein wrote:
> I use pyparsing.  It works pretty well, but would be curious as to  
> what
> else folks use.

pyparsing rocks for building and using grammars. For screen scraping  
the web I've really come to rely on Lundh's elementtidy [1].  
elementtidy wraps tidylib [2], and allows you to feed in possibly  
garbled HTML and get out a shiny new elementtree object.

For example, if your boss came to you and asked you to write a  
program to pretend to be Moe the Bartender:

   #!/usr/bin/env python

   from elementtidy import TidyHTMLTreeBuilder
   from urllib import urlopen
   from random import randint

   url = 'http://www.snpp.com/guides/moe_calls.html'
   root = TidyHTMLTreeBuilder.parse(urlopen(url))

   quotes = root.findall('.//{http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml}b')
   print quotes[ randint(0,len(quotes)-1) ].text

--

biblio:~ ed$ moe
Phone call for Al...Al Coholic...is there an Al Coholic here?
biblio:~ ed$ moe
Hey, is there a Butz here? Seymour Butz? Hey, everybody, I wanna  
Seymour Butz!

//Ed

[1] http://effbot.org/zone/element-tidylib.htm
[2] http://tidy.sourceforge.net/


From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Tue Feb  7 21:11:25 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:11:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday meeting
In-Reply-To: <43E83DF7.5030806@MacAdie.net>
Message-ID: <OF8BF99039.94CEE87E-ON8625710E.006D6462-8625710E.006EE740@thoughtworks.com>

> When and where is the Thursday meeting? 
When:
7 p.m. (I think that's the "standard" start time for most ChiPy meetings, 
right? If I'm wrong, then someone please correct me!)

Where:
ThoughtWorks
651 West Washington Blvd., 6th floor
Chicago, IL 60661

Location description:
"6 story, brick building on the Southwest corner of Washington Blvd. and 
Desplaines St."
"Right next to the 90/94 freeway"
"Across the street from the Social Security building"

Call jason at 3 1 2 - 3 7 3 . 8 5 5 6 if you get locked out or lost. (The 
external doors should be open, but be sure to enter on the "east" side 
(Desplaines) 

Street (meter) parking is available in the area. Shoot for "free" (no 
meters) parking on the South side of the building if you're lucky. And be 
sure to feed those meters; Brother Leader Daley collects tons of cash from 
meter fines in this area. Garage parking is also available across the 
street (technically across the interstate) at the very tall SkyBridge 
condo building.

- Jason

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 16:29:14 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:29:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Another Sprint?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602080729l27751d7di3cdb00cd1c6ab316@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Chips,

I just saw this: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/9147?wlg=yes

Anyone interested in trying to do something similar?  Sure...Atlanta
released the source to their project.  However, it might be cool for
us to our own from scratch, and release the source.  Maybe creating
Meetup-alikes will be to users groups what building your own workbench
is to woodworkers.  I've heard similar rumblings in the Chicago Ruby
group.

Let's chat about this on Thursday.

Chris

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 16:43:57 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:43:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Another Sprint?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602080729l27751d7di3cdb00cd1c6ab316@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0602080729l27751d7di3cdb00cd1c6ab316@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602080743x1b481e48p586d91019c42306a@mail.gmail.com>

Nice idea for a web framework bakeoff...?

mt

On 2/8/06, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Chips,
>
> I just saw this: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/9147?wlg=yes
>
> Anyone interested in trying to do something similar?  Sure...Atlanta
> released the source to their project.  However, it might be cool for
> us to our own from scratch, and release the source.  Maybe creating
> Meetup-alikes will be to users groups what building your own workbench
> is to woodworkers.  I've heard similar rumblings in the Chicago Ruby
> group.
>
> Let's chat about this on Thursday.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 19:20:45 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:20:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Wiki update; error message
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602081020w253b792bned138d7dc36a5404@mail.gmail.com>

I updated the Wiki with the Thoughtworks coordinates; I don't have
talk titles, but I announced that Ian and Adrian will both have stuff
for us to look at; I hope this is correct.

I got the following error message on posting:

==>
Thank you for your changes. Your attention to detail is appreciated.
Status of sending notification mails:
[en] MartinManey, JudyAlmendariz: Connection to mailserver 'localhost'
failed: (111, 'Connection refused')
<==

Should somebody know about this?

I'll try to make the meeting but don't count on me; I'll be at Purdue
tomorrow afternoon.

mt

From bray at sent.com  Wed Feb  8 19:38:11 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:38:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Wiki update; error message
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602081020w253b792bned138d7dc36a5404@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3aa55550602081020w253b792bned138d7dc36a5404@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30CEB576-30D1-4B5A-8C08-EF6D66C800D4@sent.com>

Yes, I turned off outgoing mail. I will turn it back on.

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Wed Feb  8 21:10:16 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:10:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
Message-ID: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>

I could ask for an RSVP, or I could ask anyone/everyone on what they think 
the "best guess" is.

I'm guessing 10-20. Sounds about right?

(I ask because I need to know whether I can get a way with a conference 
room setup... or if I need tables or chairs and projector setup in our 
bigger "commons" space.

-Jason

From bray at sent.com  Wed Feb  8 21:28:20 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:28:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <5387480F-E432-4F32-A97A-6E6F20C18B45@sent.com>


On Feb 8, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Jason R Huggins wrote:

> I'm guessing 10-20. Sounds about right?

10 - 20 people sounds reasonable.



From dbt at meat.net  Wed Feb  8 21:53:26 2006
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:53:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:10:16PM -0600, Jason R Huggins wrote:
> I could ask for an RSVP, or I could ask anyone/everyone on what they think 
> the "best guess" is.
> 
> I'm guessing 10-20. Sounds about right?
> 
> (I ask because I need to know whether I can get a way with a conference 
> room setup... or if I need tables or chairs and projector setup in our 
> bigger "commons" space.

I'm a newb (to ChiPy), but I plan on dropping in and seeing what the
fuss is all about.  Is an RSVP needed?


From chipy at holovaty.com  Wed Feb  8 21:55:34 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:55:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
References: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
	<20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <200602081455.34764.chipy@holovaty.com>

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:10:16PM -0600, Jason R Huggins wrote:
> I could ask for an RSVP, or I could ask anyone/everyone on what they
> think the "best guess" is.

Quick question, Jason: Will Internet connectivity be available if I bring a 
laptop? I need to know this in preparation for my presentation.

Adrian

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Wed Feb  8 23:01:35 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:01:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Yes, there'll be internet access
In-Reply-To: <200602081455.34764.chipy@holovaty.com>
Message-ID: <OF23F3DAA0.791DA197-ON8625710F.0078D08A-8625710F.0078FF5A@thoughtworks.com>

Adrian wrote on 02/08/2006 02:55:34 PM:
> Quick question, Jason: Will Internet connectivity be available if I 
bring a 
> laptop? I need to know this in preparation for my presentation.

Yes, there will be internet access (wired, not wireless)... so bring an 
extra patch cable if you got one.

-Jason

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Wed Feb  8 23:05:24 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:05:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the
	meeting	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <OF572CEE6B.497D401E-ON8625710F.00782216-8625710F.00795887@thoughtworks.com>

David Terrell wrote on 02/08/2006 02:53:26 PM:
> I'm a newb (to ChiPy), but I plan on dropping in and seeing what the
> fuss is all about.  Is an RSVP needed?

You'll need to sign in at the front desk... But you don't have to RSVP.

- Jason

P.S. As a newbie, you will need to know the secret handshake. And don't 
forget to learn the official ChiPy pledge, in case there's a pop quiz. Oh, 
and official ChiPy uniforms will be on sale in the lobby before the 
meeting.

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 23:27:08 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:27:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <OF572CEE6B.497D401E-ON8625710F.00782216-8625710F.00795887@thoughtworks.com>
References: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
	<OF572CEE6B.497D401E-ON8625710F.00782216-8625710F.00795887@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602081427m7112e6cxb7458ff7b0270193@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/06, Jason R Huggins <JRHuggins at thoughtworks.com> wrote:
> and official ChiPy uniforms will be on sale in the lobby before the
> meeting.

Mine needs dry cleaned:

http://www.akrondesign.com/Animal&Fruit/Anim&FruitResources/Chipmunk.jpg

Chris

From david at graniteweb.com  Wed Feb  8 23:35:57 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:35:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602081427m7112e6cxb7458ff7b0270193@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
	<OF572CEE6B.497D401E-ON8625710F.00782216-8625710F.00795887@thoughtworks.com>
	<3096c19d0602081427m7112e6cxb7458ff7b0270193@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060208223557.GA18452@wdfs.attbi.com>

* Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-02-08 16:27]:
> On 2/8/06, Jason R Huggins <JRHuggins at thoughtworks.com> wrote:
> > and official ChiPy uniforms will be on sale in the lobby before the
> > meeting.
> 
> Mine needs dry cleaned:
> 
> http://www.akrondesign.com/Animal&Fruit/Anim&FruitResources/Chipmunk.jpg

That's funny.  I used to live not too far from there (just outside of
Lodi).

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Feb  8 23:40:58 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:40:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the
	meetingtomorrow?
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB67E@MX3.chx.com>

Me too. 

Phil

From ekm at MacAdie.net  Thu Feb  9 16:57:58 2006
From: ekm at MacAdie.net (Eric MacAdie)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:57:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
 tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <43EB6686.7090801@MacAdie.net>

I also plan on attending.

EKMacAdie


Jason R Huggins wrote:

>I could ask for an RSVP, or I could ask anyone/everyone on what they think 
>the "best guess" is.
>
>I'm guessing 10-20. Sounds about right?
>
>(I ask because I need to know whether I can get a way with a conference 
>room setup... or if I need tables or chairs and projector setup in our 
>bigger "commons" space.
>
>-Jason
>_______________________________________________
>Chicago mailing list
>Chicago at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  
>

From ph at malaprop.org  Thu Feb  9 19:47:11 2006
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:47:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
Message-ID: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Hi, All.

For those of who work in/near the loop, two hours is way more than
enough time to commute to this evening's meeting. So I'm arranging a
social meetup to commence around 5:15 PM at a nearby coffeeshop. About
two blocks from the meeting the Presidential Towers (555 W Madison;
Madison and Clinton) hold Bean Addiction Cafe. It is NOT visible from
the street but is publicly accessable. An online review indicated that
it has free wifi and snacks/desserts in addition to the usual caffinated
drinks.

I'll arrive around 5:15, and be wearing a green shirt and glasses, and (if
you're the second person to get there) reading a large book. Hope to see
you there. (No chipmunk costumes necessary.)


- --
Peter Harkins    -    ph at malaprop.org    -    http://malaprop.org


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Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it.

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From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 20:24:59 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:24:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
References: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602091124q71cd1708wc55b12f282d05177@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure I can be there pre-meeting, but I have been to that
coffee shop several times, and vouch for it being nice.  I used to
work across the street.  They server Intelligentisia coffee, which is
my brand of choice.

Chris

On 2/9/06, Peter Harkins <ph at malaprop.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Hi, All.
>
> For those of who work in/near the loop, two hours is way more than
> enough time to commute to this evening's meeting. So I'm arranging a
> social meetup to commence around 5:15 PM at a nearby coffeeshop. About
> two blocks from the meeting the Presidential Towers (555 W Madison;
> Madison and Clinton) hold Bean Addiction Cafe. It is NOT visible from
> the street but is publicly accessable. An online review indicated that
> it has free wifi and snacks/desserts in addition to the usual caffinated
> drinks.
>
> I'll arrive around 5:15, and be wearing a green shirt and glasses, and (if
> you're the second person to get there) reading a large book. Hope to see
> you there. (No chipmunk costumes necessary.)
>
>
> - --
> Peter Harkins    -    ph at malaprop.org    -    http://malaprop.org
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it.
>
> iD8DBQFD644ca6PWv6+ALKoRAoMNAJ4nc+0CGhvChfksWsZmP+ToKKt/VQCfYV7i
> fc1CnEoncCl+vioTfuIFLFc=
> =d80B
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Thu Feb  9 20:28:48 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:28:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtworks.com>

But where's the *post*-party? I think I know a dude in the dorms at UIC. 
:-)

- Jason

P.S. When meeting other Python folks at a bar or coffee shop, you'll need 
to find a way to recognize each other. One obvious way to do this is to 
show up in your official ChiPy uniform. :-) Any other ideas?

From JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM  Thu Feb  9 20:31:29 2006
From: JRHuggins at thoughtworks.COM (Jason R Huggins)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:31:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <OF420BB91E.FBCA9C0F-ON86257110.006B19E2-86257110.006B40CB@thoughtworks.com>

Peter wrote on 02/09/2006 12:47:11 PM:
> I'll arrive around 5:15, and be wearing a green shirt and glasses, and 
(if
> you're the second person to get there) reading a large book. Hope to see
> you there. (No chipmunk costumes necessary.)

Doh, I'm lame... missed the mention about the green shirt. But I'm 
red-green color blind, so I guess I'm still screwed.

- Jason

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 20:42:55 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:42:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtworks.com>
References: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
	<OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602091142v3ad9736fkadfad095bc1a492c@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/9/06, Jason R Huggins <JRHuggins at thoughtworks.com> wrote:
> But where's the *post*-party? I think I know a dude in the dorms at UIC.

That Holiday bar two blocks north on Randolph.

Chris

From malaprop at malaprop.org  Thu Feb  9 20:47:20 2006
From: malaprop at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:47:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <OF420BB91E.FBCA9C0F-ON86257110.006B19E2-86257110.006B40CB@thoughtworks.com>
References: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
	<OF420BB91E.FBCA9C0F-ON86257110.006B19E2-86257110.006B40CB@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <20060209194720.GM8503@malaprop.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:31:29PM -0600, Jason R Huggins wrote:
> Doh, I'm lame... missed the mention about the green shirt. But I'm 
> red-green color blind, so I guess I'm still screwed.

As you have the shortest commute of all, you can probably still
recognize me by the fact I have my nose in a big book. And in any case I
remember meeting you at a meeting a few months ago, so I'll wave if I
see you.

- --
Peter Harkins    -    ph at malaprop.org    -    http://malaprop.org


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From brian at planetshwoop.com  Thu Feb  9 21:41:40 2006
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:41:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtwork
	s.com>
References: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
	<OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <41987.4.17.250.5.1139517700.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>


Jason R Huggins wrote:
> But where's the *post*-party? I think I know a dude in the dorms at UIC.
> :-)

If you haven't had enough geek chatter, you can always hop on the Blue
Line and join us at UFO Chicago.  We usually run til around 11 or so.

http://ufo.chicago.il.us/

brian

--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/


From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Feb  9 22:28:39 2006
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:28:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Coffee meetup before tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <41987.4.17.250.5.1139517700.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <20060209184711.GL8503@malaprop.org>
	<OF46BD1116.6839AB30-ON86257110.006AB0AA-86257110.006B022C@thoughtworks.com>
	<41987.4.17.250.5.1139517700.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <a5375ad50602091328x4f11b597yf9b31a081d150a22@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/9/06, Brian Sobolak <brian at planetshwoop.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jason R Huggins wrote:
> > But where's the *post*-party? I think I know a dude in the dorms at UIC.
> > :-)
>
> If you haven't had enough geek chatter, you can always hop on the Blue
> Line and join us at UFO Chicago.  We usually run til around 11 or so.
>
> http://ufo.chicago.il.us/


If I can make it to ThoughtWorks, I'll be glad to drive people to UFO...it's
about 2 blocks from my house. :)

-Fitz
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From dbt at meat.net  Fri Feb 10 00:38:00 2006
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:38:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] quick poll. how many people are coming to the meeting
	tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
References: <OF896E0F1A.FC532C97-ON8625710F.006E8E88-8625710F.006ECE58@thoughtworks.com>
	<20060208205326.GB22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <20060209233800.GC22548@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 02:53:26PM -0600, David Terrell wrote:
> I'm a newb (to ChiPy), but I plan on dropping in and seeing what the
> fuss is all about.

Sadly, I'll have to wait until next month.

From chipy at holovaty.com  Fri Feb 10 07:28:27 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:28:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
Message-ID: <200602100028.27304.chipy@holovaty.com>

Hi all,

Here's the Outlook Web Access scraper I presented at tonight's meeting, for 
those of you who were interested:

http://www.holovaty.com/code/weboutlook/0.1/

scraper.py is the actual scraper. popdaemon.py is the POP server proxy. The 
docs are in the module-level docstrings and method docstrings. Hope this is 
useful to somebody!

Adrian

From PRobare at chx.com  Fri Feb 10 16:21:54 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:21:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>

What was the FireFox extension you used to capture the headers? I
thought you said it was ViewHeaders but I didn't find anything with that
name on the extentions site.

Nice piece of code, as well as a good presentation.  Thanks Adrian.

Did anyone else miss the traditional "Newbies' Intro to a Standard
Module"?  I for one did and hope we can get a presenter to volunteer for
next meeting.  Although Adrian sort-of presented urllib.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Holovaty
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:28 AM
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper

Hi all,

Here's the Outlook Web Access scraper I presented at tonight's meeting,
for 
those of you who were interested:

http://www.holovaty.com/code/weboutlook/0.1/

scraper.py is the actual scraper. popdaemon.py is the POP server proxy.
The 
docs are in the module-level docstrings and method docstrings. Hope this
is 
useful to somebody!

Adrian
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From chipy at holovaty.com  Fri Feb 10 16:32:10 2006
From: chipy at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:32:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <200602100932.10431.chipy@holovaty.com>

Robare, Phil wrote:
> What was the FireFox extension you used to capture the headers? I
> thought you said it was ViewHeaders but I didn't find anything with that
> name on the extentions site.

It's LiveHTTPHeaders: http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/

The Swiss army knife of reverse-engineering Web interfaces!

Adrian

From bray at sent.com  Fri Feb 10 16:42:04 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:42:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
Message-ID: <559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>


On Feb 10, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Robare, Phil wrote:

> Did anyone else miss the traditional "Newbies' Intro to a Standard
> Module"?  I for one did and hope we can get a presenter to  
> volunteer for
> next meeting.  Although Adrian sort-of presented urllib.

Phil makes a good point here.

We should have a n00b intro section at each meeting. Maybe, cover a  
simple module or just a language feature. It can be a flash talk but  
we should make this effort for those  (like me) who may get lost in  
some of the more complicated presentations or have short attention  
spa--what was I typing, nevermind.

It was a great meeting with a good turnout of around 30. Anyway  
thanks Ian and Adrian for presenting! Thanks ThoughtWorks for room  
and board. Thanks O'Reilly for the books. Thanks Chris for leading  
and for NOT wearing that hideous mascot outfit. And thanks to all of  
ChiPy for being laid back.

I encourage those who said they did not work with Python to take a  
closer look, it's a wonderful language for various levels of programers.

-- Brian

From garrett at mojave-corp.com  Fri Feb 10 17:31:00 2006
From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:31:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
Message-ID: <20060210162522.6CB5C186849@server2.mojave-corp.com>

I'll be covering doctest next meeting, which I think qualifies as a standard module.

Garrett

On Friday, February 10, 2006 9:42 AM, chicago-bounces at python.org wrote:

> On Feb 10, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Robare, Phil wrote:
> 
>> Did anyone else miss the traditional "Newbies' Intro to a Standard
>> Module"?  I for one did and hope we can get a presenter to volunteer
>> for next meeting.  Although Adrian sort-of presented urllib.
> 
> Phil makes a good point here.
> 
> We should have a n00b intro section at each meeting. Maybe, cover a
> simple module or just a language feature. It can be a flash talk but
> we should make this effort for those  (like me) who may get lost in
> some of the more complicated presentations or have short attention
> spa--what was I typing, nevermind.
> 
> It was a great meeting with a good turnout of around 30. Anyway
> thanks Ian and Adrian for presenting! Thanks ThoughtWorks for room
> and board. Thanks O'Reilly for the books. Thanks Chris for leading
> and for NOT wearing that hideous mascot outfit. And thanks to all of
> ChiPy for being laid back. 
> 
> I encourage those who said they did not work with Python to take a
> closer look, it's a wonderful language for various levels of
> programers. 
> 
> -- Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 17:43:34 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:43:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/10/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> We should have a n00b intro section at each meeting. Maybe, cover a
> simple module or just a language feature. It can be a flash talk but
> we should make this effort for those  (like me) who may get lost in
> some of the more complicated presentations or have short attention
> spa--what was I typing, nevermind.

I agree... I also suggest that the more "newbie" stuff come at the
beginning of the meeting, and the presentations get more advanced in
content as the meeting goes on... That way people can drop out once
they start getting confused.  It also makes it possible for
presentations to build on each other: for instance, Ian gave an
interesting presentation on generics in November, but at one point he
started using decorators, at which point I got lost.  So it would've
been nice if someone gave a semi-newbie presentation on decorators
that preceded Ian's talk.  Maybe that requires too much coordination
between presenters, but it would be cool to see.  Perhaps people who
are giving advanced talks could just send out an email to the list
saying "hey, my presentation assumes the audience knows about X and Y,
so if someone wants to give a presentation on those before mine, that
would be great"?

I'm particularly interested in seeing presentations on language
features...  Ones that don't just explain what a language feature is,
but also talk about how it can be made useful in a wide variety of
situations.  That way even experienced Python people could at least
learn a few new ways to use a language feature, even if they already
knew what the language feature was.

Anyhow, I'm pretty new to ChiPy and I wasn't able to attend
yesterday's meeting, so maybe all this has been discussed before. :)

- Atul

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 20:45:48 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:45:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>

> I also suggest that the more "newbie" stuff come at the
> beginning of the meeting, and the presentations get more advanced in
> content as the meeting goes on... That way people can drop out once
> they start getting confused.  It also makes it possible for
> presentations to build on each other:

I agree with Atul's suggestion. I made a similar suggestion at a
meeting once, but most people present thought the easy stuff should be
left for "dessert". Anyone else care to weigh in?

mt


On 2/10/06, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/10/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> > We should have a n00b intro section at each meeting. Maybe, cover a
> > simple module or just a language feature. It can be a flash talk but
> > we should make this effort for those  (like me) who may get lost in
> > some of the more complicated presentations or have short attention
> > spa--what was I typing, nevermind.
>
> I agree... I also suggest that the more "newbie" stuff come at the
> beginning of the meeting, and the presentations get more advanced in
> content as the meeting goes on... That way people can drop out once
> they start getting confused.  It also makes it possible for
> presentations to build on each other: for instance, Ian gave an
> interesting presentation on generics in November, but at one point he
> started using decorators, at which point I got lost.  So it would've
> been nice if someone gave a semi-newbie presentation on decorators
> that preceded Ian's talk.  Maybe that requires too much coordination
> between presenters, but it would be cool to see.  Perhaps people who
> are giving advanced talks could just send out an email to the list
> saying "hey, my presentation assumes the audience knows about X and Y,
> so if someone wants to give a presentation on those before mine, that
> would be great"?
>
> I'm particularly interested in seeing presentations on language
> features...  Ones that don't just explain what a language feature is,
> but also talk about how it can be made useful in a wide variety of
> situations.  That way even experienced Python people could at least
> learn a few new ways to use a language feature, even if they already
> knew what the language feature was.
>
> Anyhow, I'm pretty new to ChiPy and I wasn't able to attend
> yesterday's meeting, so maybe all this has been discussed before. :)
>
> - Atul
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From john at phaedrusdeinus.org  Fri Feb 10 21:11:10 2006
From: john at phaedrusdeinus.org (johnnnnnnn)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:11:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> I agree with Atul's suggestion. I made a similar suggestion at a
> meeting once, but most people present thought the easy stuff should be
> left for "dessert". Anyone else care to weigh in?
>   

My primary concern is that it would 1- encourage people to leave, and 
potentially 2- encourage people to show up late. The problem with those 
two, combined, is that it starts separating the l33t from the n00b in 
ways that are less than welcoming. Maybe i'm being overly egalitarian, 
but i fear that such a situation would make the group as a whole less 
newcomer-friendly.

I'm certainly up for a debate on the topic, though.

-johnnnnnnnnn


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 11 16:37:10 2006
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:37:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0602110737q49db69e5ra3819668b7d13b40@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/10/06, johnnnnnnn <john at phaedrusdeinus.org> wrote:
> Michael Tobis wrote:
> > I agree with Atul's suggestion. I made a similar suggestion at a
> > meeting once, but most people present thought the easy stuff should be
> > left for "dessert". Anyone else care to weigh in?
> >
>
> My primary concern is that it would 1- encourage people to leave, and
> potentially 2- encourage people to show up late. The problem with those
> two, combined, is that it starts separating the l33t from the n00b in
> ways that are less than welcoming. Maybe i'm being overly egalitarian,
> but i fear that such a situation would make the group as a whole less
> newcomer-friendly.

I think it's a valid concern.  I also think that the format is worth
trying, with the above caveat in mind.

Chris

From david at graniteweb.com  Sun Feb 12 04:45:24 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:45:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0602110737q49db69e5ra3819668b7d13b40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<3096c19d0602110737q49db69e5ra3819668b7d13b40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060212034524.GD31023@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> [2006-02-11 09:37]:
> On 2/10/06, johnnnnnnn <john at phaedrusdeinus.org> wrote:
> > Michael Tobis wrote:
> > > I agree with Atul's suggestion. I made a similar suggestion at a
> > > meeting once, but most people present thought the easy stuff should be
> > > left for "dessert". Anyone else care to weigh in?
> > >
> >
> > My primary concern is that it would 1- encourage people to leave, and
> > potentially 2- encourage people to show up late. The problem with those
> > two, combined, is that it starts separating the l33t from the n00b in
> > ways that are less than welcoming. Maybe i'm being overly egalitarian,
> > but i fear that such a situation would make the group as a whole less
> > newcomer-friendly.
> 
> I think it's a valid concern.  I also think that the format is worth
> trying, with the above caveat in mind.

What if we did that and just didn't tell anyone? ;-)

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From varmaa at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 18:49:13 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:49:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <361b27370602130949p15991a0fq8b3fd18b717bdb0d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/10/06, johnnnnnnn <john at phaedrusdeinus.org> wrote:
> My primary concern is that it would 1- encourage people to leave, and
> potentially 2- encourage people to show up late. The problem with those
> two, combined, is that it starts separating the l33t from the n00b in
> ways that are less than welcoming. Maybe i'm being overly egalitarian,
> but i fear that such a situation would make the group as a whole less
> newcomer-friendly.

That's a good point--but my initial reason for suggesting the change
was actually because I felt that there was a pretty big seperation
between "expert"-oriented presentations and "newbie"-oriented ones, in
ways that were rather confusing for newbies (or even people who have
been using Python for a while) and kind of, well, dull for experts (or
even people who have been using Python for a while).

If the group as a whole wants to be more newcomer-friendly, then I'd
suggest that the presentations be done in a way that guarantees that
newbies would have at least *something* interesting to glean from the
presentation.  As it stands, the one ChiPy meeting I went to was
something of a cross, to make an analogy, between an advanced quantum
mechanics lecture and a middle school life sciences class.  I got
really confused by the expert talk (generics) and bored by the newbie
one (the "random" module)--and the third presentation was interesting
in concept but went into way too much detail than was necessary.

Anyhow, I didn't intentionally mean to be harsh there, but I needed to
illustrate a point: I see what johnnnnnnnnn is saying, it just seems
like the only other solution is for the presenters to make their
presentations both accessible and interesting for a wide variety of
audiences, which isn't easy to do.  In other words, either I think
that talks should be given in order from beginner to expert (which is
admittedly a suboptimal solution), or presenters should try their
hardest to break down this distinction between "beginner" and "expert"
and ensure that their presentations are interesting for everyone.

Here's one possibility: why not offer to pre-read presenter's slides? 
With a bit of pre-meeting feedback, presenters could probably appeal
to a wider cross-section of users. I don't know how hard it would be
to find readers, but I'm willing to volunteer.

- Atul

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Feb 13 19:08:54 2006
From: pfein at pobox.com (Peter Fein)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:08:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Get going, was Re:  Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <361b27370602130949p15991a0fq8b3fd18b717bdb0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<361b27370602130949p15991a0fq8b3fd18b717bdb0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43F0CB36.8060803@pobox.com>

Various people wrote: Many Things

As long as we're discussing, I've been frustrated by the amount of time
spent dithering around at meetings. The last one I was at, we spent ~40
minutes trying to order a pizza before starting.  Other meetings have
similarly gotten off to a *very* slow start - socializing, mucking with
projectors, etc..

I haven't been in a while, don't know if this is still a problem, but
it's discouraged me from attending.  Just my $.02.

--Pete

From mtobis at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 19:28:37 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:28:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Get going, was Re: Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <43F0CB36.8060803@pobox.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<361b27370602130949p15991a0fq8b3fd18b717bdb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<43F0CB36.8060803@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602131028vd044098od06708d1cbddcef0@mail.gmail.com>

The pizza thing was ridiculous, and partly my fault, sorry. I think it
was an outlier, though.

mt

From maney at two14.net  Mon Feb 13 22:01:01 2006
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:01:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Get going, was Re: Outlook Web Access scraper
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602131028vd044098od06708d1cbddcef0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB683@MX3.chx.com>
	<559B9EEE-7DD5-4891-B74E-5E4171680DB7@sent.com>
	<361b27370602100843s50642771r9abba441ebf6533b@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602101145n7e305e2td73d40667d129bed@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ECF35E.109@phaedrusdeinus.org>
	<361b27370602130949p15991a0fq8b3fd18b717bdb0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<43F0CB36.8060803@pobox.com>
	<c3aa55550602131028vd044098od06708d1cbddcef0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060213210101.GB5995@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 12:28:37PM -0600, Michael Tobis wrote:
> The pizza thing was ridiculous, and partly my fault, sorry. I think it
> was an outlier, though.

I can attest that it was a singular occurence IME, though with the
caveat that I've mostly been at the meetings out here in the west.

I'm not sure where there's a problem with having time for chatting with
the other folks, though.  Admittedly, Adrian's presentation was more
exciting than chat, but Django was a bigger splash than we usually see
(same caveats again, of course).  It's not like you're paying for an
evening's entertainment, after all.  :-)

-- 
GUIs are just what some developer thinks you'll be needing  -- PJ


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Feb 13 22:36:00 2006
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:36:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Who wants to head publicity?
Message-ID: <43F0FBC0.5000100@colorstudy.com>

Would someone like to volunteer to be in charge of publicity for Chipy? 
  That could mean as little as regularly emailing python-announce and 
luni-announce about meetings, or as much as you'd like.  I had been 
doing the emails, but I've been bad at it lately, and it is best if a 
single person takes responsibility for it.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  /  http://blog.ianbicking.org

From rockhopper at mcihispeed.net  Tue Feb 14 04:02:39 2006
From: rockhopper at mcihispeed.net (Amy Bauer)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:02:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ipython install
Message-ID: <66089768-F2A1-4282-AB59-EEDED90B63E1@mcihispeed.net>

Please post to your Python mailing list:

Wanted: A person to install iPython + modules (matplotlib/scipy/ 
scientificpython) and ParaView on OS X.  Compensation + travel, if  
necessary.

Please respond to:

rockhopper at mcihispeed.net

"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person  
doing it."

~ Chinese proverb




From PRobare at chx.com  Wed Feb 15 15:44:50 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:44:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ipython install
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB68F@MX3.chx.com>

It won't help the poster, but there is a packaged python for Windows
that includes a large number of pre-installed packages, including (I
think) all those she is looking for.
The python version is 2.3 rather than 2.4 that is (still I think) the
latest.

The download is at:
http://code.enthought.com/ 

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces+probare=chx.com at python.org
[mailto:chicago-bounces+probare=chx.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Amy
Bauer
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:03 PM
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: [Chicago] ipython install

Please post to your Python mailing list:

Wanted: A person to install iPython + modules (matplotlib/scipy/ 
scientificpython) and ParaView on OS X.  Compensation + travel, if  
necessary.

Please respond to:

rockhopper at mcihispeed.net

"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person  
doing it."

~ Chinese proverb



_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 16:58:48 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:58:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
Message-ID: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone,

At my company, we recently discovered a tool called "SCons", which is
a Python-based replacement for tools like GNU Make:

  http://www.scons.org/

So far everyone at work is in love with this package; constructing our
build system is now as much fun as coding in Python now because, well,
SCons lets us use Python to create our build system instead of a
clunky shell-scripting mutant language (Make) or any of the
alternatives we've seen so far, like Ant.

Anyhow, not sure if this is "old hat" in the Python community or not,
but if it isn't, I just wanted to pass the word along--and if anyone's
interested, I'd be happy to give a presentation on it at a future
ChiPy meeting.

- Atul

From bray at sent.com  Fri Feb 24 17:17:40 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:17:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>

That's funny, we were just talking about that (on #chipy @  
irc.freenode.net). It's a very cool tool, indeed. thanks! It an  
amazing concept, automating builds with Python.

Atul, would you be up to presenting on this in a future ChiPy meeting?

Kind Regards,

bhr


From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 17:52:41 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:52:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370602240852s27c5616er1b6bc231773c1ae4@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/24/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> Atul, would you be up to presenting on this in a future ChiPy meeting?

Definitely!

When's the next ChiPy meeting?  I'd like to be able to present it at
the next one if I have enough time, but if not, I can always present
it at the April meeting.

- Atul

From david at graniteweb.com  Fri Feb 24 21:51:17 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:51:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
Message-ID: <20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> [2006-02-24 10:17]:
> That's funny, we were just talking about that (on #chipy @  
> irc.freenode.net). It's a very cool tool, indeed. thanks! It an  
> amazing concept, automating builds with Python.

Yeah, talk about an obvious use of Python that I completely missed.

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From bray at sent.com  Fri Feb 24 22:51:35 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:51:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
Message-ID: <F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>


On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:51 PM, David Rock wrote:

>
> Yeah, talk about an obvious use of Python that I completely missed.

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.

Regardless, make files are ugly and Python is "Beautiful". And we  
want everything to be "Beautiful". (can you tell who I am imitating).  
If not, this jokes not for you ;)

Anyway, I think SCons presentation would be quite cool. I say lets do  
in in the next meeting.

What is our topic for next month?  Is everyone going to be at PyCon?  
I am not... but maybe we can dial in and get harasses about the cold  
weather.

Did Ian say he wants someone else to do marketing?  I will. But under  
one condition: We *must* order some goofy ChiPy tee shirts.

Regards, Brian Ray

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 23:04:30 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:04:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602241404n4dc75d8ia97da9a06b65a36d@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone is going to be at PyCon next month they will be quite
lonely, as it is happening right now. Present to my knowledge are
Fitz, Ian, Adrian, Aaron and me.

The lack of ChiPy T-shirts has indeed been a missed opportunity. There
are several Chicago non-Chipy folks here that I know about. We should
show up in force next time.

mt

On 2/24/06, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:51 PM, David Rock wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, talk about an obvious use of Python that I completely missed.
>
> I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.
>
> Regardless, make files are ugly and Python is "Beautiful". And we
> want everything to be "Beautiful". (can you tell who I am imitating).
> If not, this jokes not for you ;)
>
> Anyway, I think SCons presentation would be quite cool. I say lets do
> in in the next meeting.
>
> What is our topic for next month?  Is everyone going to be at PyCon?
> I am not... but maybe we can dial in and get harasses about the cold
> weather.
>
> Did Ian say he wants someone else to do marketing?  I will. But under
> one condition: We *must* order some goofy ChiPy tee shirts.
>
> Regards, Brian Ray
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Fri Feb 24 23:24:45 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:24:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602241404n4dc75d8ia97da9a06b65a36d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
	<c3aa55550602241404n4dc75d8ia97da9a06b65a36d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14FC8881-F07B-4A6B-BCBC-10FB81BCA2A3@sent.com>


On Feb 24, 2006, at 4:04 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:

> If anyone is going to be at PyCon next month they will be quite
> lonely, as it is happening right now. Present to my knowledge are
> Fitz, Ian, Adrian, Aaron and me.

*waves*. Also checks calendar. hmmm, yes PyCon.

> The lack of ChiPy T-shirts has indeed been a missed opportunity. There
> are several Chicago non-Chipy folks here that I know about. We should
> show up in force next time.

T-shirt ideas?

Maybe our Chipmunk with some funny saying on the back.

-- bhr

From david at graniteweb.com  Sat Feb 25 01:16:24 2006
From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:16:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
Message-ID: <20060225001624.GB18834@wdfs.graniteweb.com>

* Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> [2006-02-24 15:51]:
> 
> On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:51 PM, David Rock wrote:
> 
> >
> > Yeah, talk about an obvious use of Python that I completely missed.
> 
> I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.

Definitely NOT sarcasm.  Managing builds with a considerably more robust
language than make's is something that makes you go "duh, why didn't I
think of that?"

-- 
David Rock
david at graniteweb.com

From mtobis at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 01:35:38 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:35:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <20060225001624.GB18834@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
	<20060225001624.GB18834@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602241635h7d60cf0dgee55540670cd26a3@mail.gmail.com>

"make" is an interesting language. It and Mathematica are AFAIK the
only commonly used rule-based languages that "do stuff". I can't count
Prolog as anything but a toy, and I don't think yacc is all that
commonly encountered.

Rule-based programming is an interesting approach, even though its use
in make has always struck me as, um, COMPLETELY INSANE. I always
script my builds.

If you think about why rule-based languages are interesting, you could
see where the idea for make came from, but it just isn't worth it. For
something so totally time-testedly wrongheaded and gratuitously
painful, there sure are a lot of nasty makefiles out there.

mt

From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Sat Feb 25 06:58:57 2006
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert Ramsdell)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:58:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make
In-Reply-To: <14FC8881-F07B-4A6B-BCBC-10FB81BCA2A3@sent.com>
References: <361b27370602240758n37181934rb344b062c73bb170@mail.gmail.com>
	<8BE5C4CF-EB3F-4E14-A061-0BF0D9EBA5AC@sent.com>
	<20060224205117.GC17502@wdfs.graniteweb.com>
	<F47D0A07-609A-4C2A-A08B-3A57192D6884@sent.com>
	<c3aa55550602241404n4dc75d8ia97da9a06b65a36d@mail.gmail.com>
	<14FC8881-F07B-4A6B-BCBC-10FB81BCA2A3@sent.com>
Message-ID: <1140847138.17040.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 16:24 -0600, Brian Ray wrote:

> 
> *waves*. Also checks calendar. hmmm, yes PyCon.
As it happens, I'll be in town for the meeting, if there is one.
Indeed, I'll be in Chicago Wednesday and Friday as well.

> 
> > The lack of ChiPy T-shirts has indeed been a missed opportunity. There
> > are several Chicago non-Chipy folks here that I know about. We should
> > show up in force next time.
> 
> T-shirt ideas?
> 
> Maybe our Chipmunk with some funny saying on the back.
I was thinking the chipmunk on the front and the 'Pyspotting' poster on
the back.

> 
> -- bhr
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


From tcp at uchicago.edu  Fri Feb 24 17:33:33 2006
From: tcp at uchicago.edu (Ted Pollari)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:33:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon
Message-ID: <630F536A-EF0F-4FA1-BC1C-BC7733FC71A7@uchicago.edu>

So, how many of us are at PyCon this year -- and is there any thought  
of meeting up?

-ted


-- 
Ted Pollari
Research Programmer
Department of Health Studies
The University of Chicago
tcp at uchicago.edu
773.834.0559




From PRobare at chx.com  Fri Feb 24 23:04:30 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:04:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] SCons, the Python-based alternative to GNU Make (OT)
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6A4@MX3.chx.com>

 Brian Ray wrote on Friday, February 24, 2006 3:52 PM

> Did Ian say he wants someone else to do marketing?  I will. But under

> one condition: We *must* order some goofy ChiPy tee shirts.

Yes, let's put the treasury money to use.  Aren't we presently getting
half the fee paid for every python download to the 5 county area?

[Suddenly becoming serious]
You could find some on-line store that does shirts on demand and
post the URL.
[Snapping out of it]
The full body chipmunk mascot suit could then be purchased with
the profits from the shirt sales.

Phil

From ph at malaprop.org  Mon Feb 27 21:44:26 2006
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:44:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] CITConf, April 7-8
Message-ID: <20060227204426.GH7873@malaprop.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm not involved with this group (I can't even attend the event), but I
wanted to share it as it looks neat.

http://www.citconf.com/

Overview

Jeffrey Fredrick and Paul Julius are cohosting an event that will focus
on the topics of Continuous Integration and Testing.

The event will use OpenSpaces to structure conversation, understanding
and innovation.

 * What: OpenSpace event discussing all aspects of CI and Testing, together
 * Where: Chicago, IL
 * When: April 7 & 8, 2006
 * Who: Everyone interested in CI and Testing
 * Cost: Free

People from all manner of projects and places are invited. Pass an
invitation along to anyone that you think will be interested.

In order to finalize the details of time and place we need to get a feel
for how many people are likely to attend. If you are interested in
attending please join the CITCON mailing list.


- --
Peter Harkins  -  http://push.cx


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Comment: If you don't know what this is, it's OK to ignore it.

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From larry at transformix.com  Tue Feb 28 15:41:20 2006
From: larry at transformix.com (Larry Allingham)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:41:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
Message-ID: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I've just subscribed to the list. I'm interested to know if there are any
introductory Python classes in Chicago in which I could enroll myself and my
13-year-old son. Python has been recommended to me by my brother (a computer
engineer) as his choice for the best language for beginning programmers.
Since my son and I share a growing interest in computers and the open source
movement, we thought this might be a nice thing to do together.

Any guidance anyone could offer would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Larry Allingham
-------------- next part --------------
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From tundra at tundraware.com  Tue Feb 28 16:21:44 2006
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:21:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>

Larry Allingham wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I've just subscribed to the list. I'm interested to know if there are 
> any introductory Python classes in Chicago in which I could enroll 
> myself and my 13-year-old son. Python has been recommended to me by my 
> brother (a computer engineer) as his choice for the best language for 
> beginning programmers. Since my son and I share a growing interest in 
> computers and the open source movement, we thought this might be a nice 
> thing to do together.
> 
> Any guidance anyone could offer would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry Allingham
> 

I cannot comment on classes, but this is a *very* good intro to both
programming generally and Python particularly:

    http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

These are also quite good:

    http://www.diveintopython.org/
    http://www.hetland.org/python/instant-python.php
    http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/python.html


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/


From bray at sent.com  Tue Feb 28 17:05:30 2006
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:05:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4307E25C-4E95-4D1A-9D22-9E46E9032B3C@sent.com>

Python is a good language to start with (and to end with, for that  
matter).

As of yet, ChiPy has not offered any classes lead by members.  
Although, what we have done is had Sprints where we work on an open  
source project on a Saturday.  I see where it would reasonable to  
have a hands-on class taught simultaneously with a Sprint.  A couple  
members who do not feel like Sprinting or need a break from Sprinting  
can go over to the "learning" tables and go through some tutorials  
with students of Python.

I propose our next Sprint Saturday March 18th. The Sprint will be in  
response to Alanta's User Group site where we will make our own with  
Django. At the same time we will invite those who wish to learn  
Python to come and get hands on experience. I suggest we hold this  
all day (pending availability) at the Lincoln Park Chicago Public  
Library. They have a nice big room they have let us use in the past.

Now I have thrown that out there, I will be interested to see if we  
can pull this off in time.

Regards, Brian



From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 17:06:14 2006
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:06:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
	<44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370602280806x2ad7d75di507337b6c41aead8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Larry,

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about Python classes either, but
I would recommend the book "Practical Python" by Magnus Lie Hetland:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590590066/sr=8-1/qid=1141142145/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4364449-1324043?%5Fencoding=UTF8

This book is intended for people with no programming background, has a
great sense of humor, and the part I like most is that after he spends
about 100-150 pages teaching you the language, he then presents you
with a bunch of fun "mini-projects" that you can select from in
whatever order you like, including a peer-to-peer file sharing
program, a video game, and a lot more.  Hetland also wrote one of the
online tutorials that Tim mentioned in his last email, which is very
well-written.

You may also be interested in just doing one of the online web
tutorials and then jumping into a particular area that you and your
son are interested in.  For instance, if your son is interested in
video game development, you may want to check out pygame
(www.pygame.org), which comes with a number of tutorials intended for
beginning programmers.

Good luck!

- Atul

On 2/28/06, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
> Larry Allingham wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've just subscribed to the list. I'm interested to know if there are
> > any introductory Python classes in Chicago in which I could enroll
> > myself and my 13-year-old son. Python has been recommended to me by my
> > brother (a computer engineer) as his choice for the best language for
> > beginning programmers. Since my son and I share a growing interest in
> > computers and the open source movement, we thought this might be a nice
> > thing to do together.
> >
> > Any guidance anyone could offer would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Larry Allingham
> >
>
> I cannot comment on classes, but this is a *very* good intro to both
> programming generally and Python particularly:
>
>     http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>
> These are also quite good:
>
>     http://www.diveintopython.org/
>     http://www.hetland.org/python/instant-python.php
>     http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/python.html
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
> PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From larry at transformix.com  Tue Feb 28 17:29:26 2006
From: larry at transformix.com (Larry Allingham)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:29:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <361b27370602280806x2ad7d75di507337b6c41aead8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
	<44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>
	<361b27370602280806x2ad7d75di507337b6c41aead8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8a8366980602280829q142a8468t65e2243ce0cc36ff@mail.gmail.com>

My thanks to Tim, Brian, and Atul for their interesting and helpful
comments.

For what it's worth, March 18 is open for us and we'd be delighted to
participate in the Sprint!

On 2/28/06, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know anything about Python classes either, but
> I would recommend the book "Practical Python" by Magnus Lie Hetland:
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590590066/sr=8-1/qid=1141142145/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4364449-1324043?%5Fencoding=UTF8
>
> This book is intended for people with no programming background, has a
> great sense of humor, and the part I like most is that after he spends
> about 100-150 pages teaching you the language, he then presents you
> with a bunch of fun "mini-projects" that you can select from in
> whatever order you like, including a peer-to-peer file sharing
> program, a video game, and a lot more.  Hetland also wrote one of the
> online tutorials that Tim mentioned in his last email, which is very
> well-written.
>
> You may also be interested in just doing one of the online web
> tutorials and then jumping into a particular area that you and your
> son are interested in.  For instance, if your son is interested in
> video game development, you may want to check out pygame
> (www.pygame.org), which comes with a number of tutorials intended for
> beginning programmers.
>
> Good luck!
>
> - Atul
>
> On 2/28/06, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
> > Larry Allingham wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I've just subscribed to the list. I'm interested to know if there are
> > > any introductory Python classes in Chicago in which I could enroll
> > > myself and my 13-year-old son. Python has been recommended to me by my
> > > brother (a computer engineer) as his choice for the best language for
> > > beginning programmers. Since my son and I share a growing interest in
> > > computers and the open source movement, we thought this might be a
> nice
> > > thing to do together.
> > >
> > > Any guidance anyone could offer would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Larry Allingham
> > >
> >
> > I cannot comment on classes, but this is a *very* good intro to both
> > programming generally and Python particularly:
> >
> >     http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
> >
> > These are also quite good:
> >
> >     http://www.diveintopython.org/
> >     http://www.hetland.org/python/instant-python.php
> >     http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/python.html
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
> > PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



--
Larry Allingham
Transformix Engineering, Inc.
70 Railway Street
Kingston, ON  K7K 2L8
Chicago office:  773-561-6447
Home office:     800-639-5644
www.transformix.com
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From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 17:54:33 2006
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:54:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <8a8366980602280829q142a8468t65e2243ce0cc36ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
	<44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>
	<361b27370602280806x2ad7d75di507337b6c41aead8@mail.gmail.com>
	<8a8366980602280829q142a8468t65e2243ce0cc36ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550602280854s6d9318b2o974dc3719cadf204@mail.gmail.com>

As far as I know, though, there are no organized classes of this sort
(Python or otherwise) in Chicago outside institutional settings. I
think what you are trying to do is an excellent father/son project,
and I'd like to help out.

I'd be more than happy to make your acquaintance, and possibly
nucleate a beginners' interest group within ChiPy. If we can attract
enough beginners to pull together a regular evening group (say, twice
a month) so much the better. I probably would do this gratis the first
time out.

I think the 18th in parallel with the sprint would work out as a time
for us to meet. You will need a laptop with python and a
python-friendly text-editor (or IDE) installed.

Michael Tobis

PS I will be teaching a Python for non-professionals (a.k.a. escape
from your math requirement) class at Loyola this summer, and have long
been interested in the thought processes of beginners.

I'm also in touch with one of the authors of How To Think Like a
Computer Scientist, Jeff Elkner. He is a high school teacher with
probably more experience teaching Python to beginners than anyone
else. We met at PyCon this weekend and are kicking around ideas for
some sort of interactive media version of his text.

From PRobare at chx.com  Tue Feb 28 18:40:09 2006
From: PRobare at chx.com (Robare, Phil)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:40:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
Message-ID: <51338F3CEE91164C89AFCC010FEC7F6F02CAB6A5@MX3.chx.com>

On Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:55 AM Michael Tobis wrote:

> I'm also in touch with one of the authors of How To Think Like a
> Computer Scientist, Jeff Elkner. He is a high school teacher with
> probably more experience teaching Python to beginners than anyone
> else. We met at PyCon this weekend and are kicking around ideas for
> some sort of interactive media version of his text.

This sounds like a great idea.  I have done some stop-motion animation
and have thought that this would be a great way to introduce the thought
processes of programming.  But actually doing such was a much bigger
project than I would attempt on my own.  To link an pedagogic animation
directly to sample code would be a fun project/projects.  I'm afraid I
can't make the code sprint on the 18th (I'm directing a play and we have
rehearsals) but I'd love to jump in on this project.

Phil

From larry at transformix.com  Tue Feb 28 18:51:01 2006
From: larry at transformix.com (Larry Allingham)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:51:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550602280854s6d9318b2o974dc3719cadf204@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8a8366980602280641j35b0943cqa2a03933d4768558@mail.gmail.com>
	<44046A88.20000@tundraware.com>
	<361b27370602280806x2ad7d75di507337b6c41aead8@mail.gmail.com>
	<8a8366980602280829q142a8468t65e2243ce0cc36ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550602280854s6d9318b2o974dc3719cadf204@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8a8366980602280951h2eeb2202raa13e1e62c1018@mail.gmail.com>

Michael,

This sounds great to me. I look forward to meeting you and discussing this.
A twice-a-month class should work very nicely with our schedules.

Best regards,

Larry Allingham

On 2/28/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As far as I know, though, there are no organized classes of this sort
> (Python or otherwise) in Chicago outside institutional settings. I
> think what you are trying to do is an excellent father/son project,
> and I'd like to help out.
>
> I'd be more than happy to make your acquaintance, and possibly
> nucleate a beginners' interest group within ChiPy. If we can attract
> enough beginners to pull together a regular evening group (say, twice
> a month) so much the better. I probably would do this gratis the first
> time out.
>
> I think the 18th in parallel with the sprint would work out as a time
> for us to meet. You will need a laptop with python and a
> python-friendly text-editor (or IDE) installed.
>
> Michael Tobis
>
> PS I will be teaching a Python for non-professionals (a.k.a. escape
> from your math requirement) class at Loyola this summer, and have long
> been interested in the thought processes of beginners.
>
> I'm also in touch with one of the authors of How To Think Like a
> Computer Scientist, Jeff Elkner. He is a high school teacher with
> probably more experience teaching Python to beginners than anyone
> else. We met at PyCon this weekend and are kicking around ideas for
> some sort of interactive media version of his text.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



--
Larry Allingham
Transformix Engineering, Inc.
70 Railway Street
Kingston, ON  K7K 2L8
Chicago office:  773-561-6447
Home office:     800-639-5644
www.transformix.com
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From kmackalica at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 28 19:15:36 2006
From: kmackalica at hotmail.com (Kelly Ray)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:15:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python classes
In-Reply-To: <8a8366980602280951h2eeb2202raa13e1e62c1018@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY115-F366E469FB1C339201151D4C6F70@phx.gbl>

Michael,

I am glad you are taking on this project.  I look forward to hearing the 
actual schedule for the Beginners Interest Group.

Thanks,
Kelly


>From: "Larry Allingham" <larry at transformix.com>
>Reply-To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
>To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
>Subject: Re: [Chicago] Python classes
>Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:51:01 -0600
>
>Michael,
>
>This sounds great to me. I look forward to meeting you and discussing this.
>A twice-a-month class should work very nicely with our schedules.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Larry Allingham
>
>On 2/28/06, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As far as I know, though, there are no organized classes of this sort
> > (Python or otherwise) in Chicago outside institutional settings. I
> > think what you are trying to do is an excellent father/son project,
> > and I'd like to help out.
> >
> > I'd be more than happy to make your acquaintance, and possibly
> > nucleate a beginners' interest group within ChiPy. If we can attract
> > enough beginners to pull together a regular evening group (say, twice
> > a month) so much the better. I probably would do this gratis the first
> > time out.
> >
> > I think the 18th in parallel with the sprint would work out as a time
> > for us to meet. You will need a laptop with python and a
> > python-friendly text-editor (or IDE) installed.
> >
> > Michael Tobis
> >
> > PS I will be teaching a Python for non-professionals (a.k.a. escape
> > from your math requirement) class at Loyola this summer, and have long
> > been interested in the thought processes of beginners.
> >
> > I'm also in touch with one of the authors of How To Think Like a
> > Computer Scientist, Jeff Elkner. He is a high school teacher with
> > probably more experience teaching Python to beginners than anyone
> > else. We met at PyCon this weekend and are kicking around ideas for
> > some sort of interactive media version of his text.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Larry Allingham
>Transformix Engineering, Inc.
>70 Railway Street
>Kingston, ON  K7K 2L8
>Chicago office:  773-561-6447
>Home office:     800-639-5644
>www.transformix.com


>_______________________________________________
>Chicago mailing list
>Chicago at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago