From doug.napoleone at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 23:15:49 2007 From: doug.napoleone at gmail.com (Douglas Napoleone) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:15:49 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon-Tech Meeting Tomorrow, Oct. 2nd, 2pm EST Message-ID: There will be a PyCon-Tech Meeting tomorrow. The meeting will be held on irc in #pycon at freenode.net, at 2pm Eastern Standard Time (1pm Central) . This is a public meeting and all are invited to attend. `PyCon `_ is a volunteer conference for the python community, by the community, and we need all the help we can get. We have missed the Oct. 1st deadline for getting the proposal system live, and we need to focus on the remaining issues. The meeting agenda with details is here: https://pycon.coderanger.net/wiki/Meetings The minutes from the last meeting are now published: https://pycon.coderanger.net/wiki/Meetings/2007-09-18 All the action items have been completed with the exception of the proposal system, and a few remaining static content issues: http://us.pycon.org/2008/site/ -Doug Napoleone From kkrumm at opstaffing.com Tue Oct 2 15:39:58 2007 From: kkrumm at opstaffing.com (Kevin Krumm) Date: 2 Oct 2007 09:39:58 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python Job Opportunity Message-ID: <4523565.1191332398195.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver12> Greetings Everyone, I am a technical and executive recruiter with a search firm called Objective Paradigm, Inc that is based here in Chicago. I have a python-centric position I am trying to fill for a proprietary trading firm client of ours. As many of you probably know, C++ and as an extention, Python, are widely used in the trading space. My client is looking for a QA / Tester / Script Writer that is proficient in using Python, familiar with working in a C++ environment and that has experience in test automation. Their testing environment is built in Python and we have had very little success with candidates that have a more traditional testing background with *some* knowlege of Python. What we would like to do is speak with interested candidates that have proficient Python skills, enjoy testing work and would be very interested in an opportunity working in the Financial Markets. Python is the key for us, hence my appeal to the ChiPy group. If you think that you are interested in hearing more about this position and our client, please contact me directly. Thank you, Kevin Krumm Managing Director Objective Paradigm, Inc. (O) 773 572 6402 (C) 732 207 8742 www.opstaffing.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071002/773fc647/attachment.htm From jquigley at jquigley.com Wed Oct 3 19:00:18 2007 From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:00:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Announcing new programming group Message-ID: <4703CAA2.8080800@jquigley.com> I'd like to announce the formation of a new group for Chicago-based programmers called Tekniks. The focus of the group will be on collaborative and social programming, so we'll be having weekly 'development sprints' at a local coffee shop. We'll keep it very unstructured, so bring whatever projects or ideas you may have, and feel free to work singly or in a group. The next sprint will take place right downtown this coming Friday at 7p at Cyberia Cafe: http://tinyurl.com/36zd5k These sprints are running in conjunction with the Programming Tonight group, an offshoot of Chicago Linux that has been really quite successful, with a rotating cast of about 25 programmers hanging out to code and chat. The Tekniks homepage is located at (excuse me for the minimal content): http://www.tekniks.org/ I hope that this will be of interest to some of you. Please subscribe to our mailing list (linked off our homepage) if you'd like to keep in the loop. Thanks so much! Best, John Quigley home: www.jquigley.com mail: jquigley at jquigley.com From skip at pobox.com Wed Oct 3 21:21:36 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:21:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Announcing new programming group In-Reply-To: <4703CAA2.8080800@jquigley.com> References: <4703CAA2.8080800@jquigley.com> Message-ID: <18179.60352.73476.90409@montanaro.dyndns.org> John> I'd like to announce the formation of a new group for John> Chicago-based programmers called Tekniks. The focus of the group John> will be on collaborative and social programming, so we'll be John> having weekly 'development sprints' at a local coffee shop. We'll John> keep it very unstructured, so bring whatever projects or ideas you John> may have, and feel free to work singly or in a group. Similar to Tech Coffee the past two summers? Skip From jquigley at jquigley.com Wed Oct 3 23:48:35 2007 From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:48:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Announcing new programming group In-Reply-To: <18179.60352.73476.90409@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <4703CAA2.8080800@jquigley.com> <18179.60352.73476.90409@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <47040E33.3090706@jquigley.com> skip at pobox.com wrote: > Similar to Tech Coffee the past two summers? Similar in flavor, though I've never been to a Tech Coffee (too early in the morning for me). My long-term intention is to transform this into a group that has more structured meetings, in addition to the sprints. I was operating the Chicago Lisp group for a time, and we tried valiantly to get that off the ground, but there were simply too few folks. I would like to build from that though, with perhaps monthly meetings where our members give presentations about any topic of computer science that they think others may enjoy. I'm working on an advanced computational continuations presentation that we could maybe use as the basis for a first structured meeting. That's all in time though, I want to get a feeling for the interest first. - John Quigley From bradyc at google.com Fri Oct 5 01:15:29 2007 From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:15:29 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? Message-ID: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... unless you count the one in September. -- Brady Cox Google Chicago Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League Baseball. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071004/1886e29f/attachment.htm From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net Sat Oct 6 15:12:34 2007 From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 08:12:34 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free 1-day Python Training Course Message-ID: <7BB22B4C-B4A4-4300-8E33-9D2B00B52840@sbcglobal.net> Greetings all! As some of you might know, I am going to be giving a tutorial "Python in Action" at the upcoming USENIX LISA'07 conference in Dallas. http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa07/training/tutonefile.html#f4 Since this is a brand new class, I would like to give it a dry run here in Chicago before heading off to Dallas. Therefore, I'm looking for a willing victim who would like to have this class taught on-site for absolutely free. Yes, free as in free beer. However, there are a couple of basic ground rules: - It must be scheduled sometime between October 22-31. - It must be scheduled as an all-day class (9am-5pm). It's not a seminar. - No more than 20 attendees. - You provide space for the class, a video projector for presentation, and computers for anyone who might attend (or people can bring laptops). - I will provide presentation slides electronically, but it is up to you to print them out if you want. - The class must be in the city of Chicago, easily accessible by public transportation (sorry, no driving to the burbs for this). Also, it's very important to emphasize that this class is intended for an audience of system admins/systems programmers. It would not be appropriate for absolute beginners or as a class for people who just want to learn how to program. No previous experience with Python is assumed however. If this sounds interesting, please send me a private email (d- beazley at sbcglobal.net). Cheers, Dave From ianb at colorstudy.com Mon Oct 8 04:26:55 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:26:55 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Announcing new programming group In-Reply-To: <47040E33.3090706@jquigley.com> References: <4703CAA2.8080800@jquigley.com> <18179.60352.73476.90409@montanaro.dyndns.org> <47040E33.3090706@jquigley.com> Message-ID: <4709956F.3040407@colorstudy.com> John Quigley wrote: > skip at pobox.com wrote: >> Similar to Tech Coffee the past two summers? > > Similar in flavor, though I've never been to a Tech Coffee (too early > in the morning for me). My long-term intention is to transform this > into a group that has more structured meetings, in addition to the > sprints. > > I was operating the Chicago Lisp group for a time, and we tried > valiantly to get that off the ground, but there were simply too few > folks. I would like to build from that though, with perhaps monthly > meetings where our members give presentations about any topic of > computer science that they think others may enjoy. I'm working on an > advanced computational continuations presentation that we could maybe > use as the basis for a first structured meeting. > > That's all in time though, I want to get a feeling for the interest > first. I was thinking just recently that it might be cool if we had like a little code workshop; something where people could show some code they'd been working on (small chunks of code), and maybe talk about some design problem they had with it, open it up for discussion, etc. Sounds perhaps a little similar. Or, we could have programming exercises. Implemented in any language. That could be a fun group thing. I think the Ruby group here has tried programming exercises, but I haven't seen anyone mention them lately (I haven't gone lately either); so I'm not sure if they are still doing that or if it worked. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers From ianb at colorstudy.com Mon Oct 8 04:27:09 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:27:09 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4709957D.4020907@colorstudy.com> Brady Cox wrote: > I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... > unless you count the one in September. Oh, man... ok group: unite! What are we doing for our scheduled meeting in 4 days (this Thursday!) and where are we doing it? -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 16:42:24 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:42:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: <4709957D.4020907@colorstudy.com> References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> <4709957D.4020907@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710080742j72c5d3f1v7f1b0a9d9c91e243@mail.gmail.com> On 10/7/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Brady Cox wrote: > > I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... > > unless you count the one in September. > > Oh, man... ok group: unite! What are we doing for our scheduled meeting > in 4 days (this Thursday!) and where are we doing it? Sorry group, I'm out this Thursday. I have no constructive input into this month's meeting, other than to say it's always acceptable to have a purely social meet-up. Chris From joebaker at dcresearch.com Mon Oct 8 16:24:06 2007 From: joebaker at dcresearch.com (Joe Baker) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:24:06 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free 1-day Python Training Course In-Reply-To: <7BB22B4C-B4A4-4300-8E33-9D2B00B52840@sbcglobal.net> References: <7BB22B4C-B4A4-4300-8E33-9D2B00B52840@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <470A3D86.2090306@dcresearch.com> David, I'd love to attend one of these dry runs of your "Python In Action" classes. Although I have been studying Python, I don't use it enough to have the experience I want with it. If you do get a location for this in Chicago which would allow guests to attend, I'd love to be a test student. -Joe Baker 262-763-3591 work David Beazley wrote: > Greetings all! > > As some of you might know, I am going to be giving a tutorial "Python > in Action" at the upcoming USENIX LISA'07 conference in Dallas. > > http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa07/training/tutonefile.html#f4 > > Since this is a brand new class, I would like to give it a dry run > here in Chicago before heading off to Dallas. Therefore, I'm looking > for a willing victim who would like to have this class taught on-site > for absolutely free. Yes, free as in free beer. However, there are > a couple of basic ground rules: > > - It must be scheduled sometime between October 22-31. > - It must be scheduled as an all-day class (9am-5pm). It's not a > seminar. > - No more than 20 attendees. > - You provide space for the class, a video projector for > presentation, > and computers for anyone who might attend (or people can bring > laptops). > - I will provide presentation slides electronically, but it is up > to you > to print them out if you want. > - The class must be in the city of Chicago, easily accessible by > public > transportation (sorry, no driving to the burbs for this). > > Also, it's very important to emphasize that this class is intended > for an audience of system admins/systems programmers. It would not > be appropriate for absolute beginners or as a class for people who > just want to learn how to program. No previous experience with > Python is assumed however. > > If this sounds interesting, please send me a private email (d- > beazley at sbcglobal.net). > > Cheers, > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From jsudlow at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 19:19:32 2007 From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:19:32 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710080742j72c5d3f1v7f1b0a9d9c91e243@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> <4709957D.4020907@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710080742j72c5d3f1v7f1b0a9d9c91e243@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'd come to a little social meet-up to chat with people who have a little real world experience. Sounds like it could be fun. -jon On 10/8/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > On 10/7/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Brady Cox wrote: > > > I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... > > > unless you count the one in September. > > > > Oh, man... ok group: unite! What are we doing for our scheduled meeting > > in 4 days (this Thursday!) and where are we doing it? > > Sorry group, I'm out this Thursday. I have no constructive input into > this month's meeting, other than to say it's always acceptable to have > a purely social meet-up. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Jon Sudlow 3225 Foster Avenue 221 Sohlberg Hall C.P.O 2224 Chicago, Il 60625 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071008/a5fc168b/attachment.htm From bradyc at google.com Mon Oct 8 19:22:08 2007 From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:22:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> <4709957D.4020907@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710080742j72c5d3f1v7f1b0a9d9c91e243@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2dfd89af0710081022n6c00f5d6s2c468249cf50afaa@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately this week I'm headed off on Vacation on Thursday night... so I can't make it. Cheers. On 10/8/07, Jon Sudlow wrote: > > I'd come to a little social meet-up to chat with people who have a little > real world experience. Sounds like it could be fun. > -jon > > On 10/8/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > > > On 10/7/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > > Brady Cox wrote: > > > > I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... > > > > unless you count the one in September. > > > > > > Oh, man... ok group: unite! What are we doing for our scheduled > > meeting > > > in 4 days (this Thursday!) and where are we doing it? > > > > Sorry group, I'm out this Thursday. I have no constructive input into > > this month's meeting, other than to say it's always acceptable to have > > a purely social meet-up. > > > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > -- > Jon Sudlow > 3225 Foster Avenue > 221 Sohlberg Hall > C.P.O 2224 > Chicago, Il 60625 > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Brady Cox Google Chicago Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without written consent from Major League Baseball. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071008/e15de223/attachment.htm From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Mon Oct 8 19:29:06 2007 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <911878.59816.qm@web34812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can't help out with the meeting place, but I can give a short presentation (5-10 minutes) on my WinForms wrapper library. I can also do an ad hoc talk about integrating between Python and .NET, though I don't know who'd be interested in that. I'm cool with it just being a social meetup, as long as it's not too far from downtown. - Feihong Jon Sudlow wrote: I'd come to a little social meet-up to chat with people who have a little real world experience. Sounds like it could be fun. -jon On 10/8/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: On 10/7/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Brady Cox wrote: > > I just checked the site... no mention of when the next meeting is... > > unless you count the one in September. > > Oh, man... ok group: unite! What are we doing for our scheduled meeting > in 4 days (this Thursday!) and where are we doing it? Sorry group, I'm out this Thursday. I have no constructive input into this month's meeting, other than to say it's always acceptable to have a purely social meet-up. Chris _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -- Jon Sudlow 3225 Foster Avenue 221 Sohlberg Hall C.P.O 2224 Chicago, Il 60625 _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071008/9f6cd24d/attachment.htm From tim.saylor at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 17:04:39 2007 From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:04:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0710090804y79a2b76di4206138acf625ef7@mail.gmail.com> For a social meetup location I'll recommend http://www.cyberiacoffee.com at 701 N. Wells. The Chicago LUG has been meeting there socially once a week for a while. It's a cool, convenient place, and the owner is friendly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071009/42551d41/attachment.htm From peter at pchristensen.com Tue Oct 9 17:18:14 2007 From: peter at pchristensen.com (Peter Christensen) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:18:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 26, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd be interested in Feihong's presentation. I'm a .NET developer who hasn't worked with Python but is interested in learning. I'd also come to a social get together if no one can present anything on such short notice. -Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Feihong Hsu To: The Chicago Python Users Group Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Chicago] Next Meeting? I can't help out with the meeting place, but I can give a short presentation (5-10 minutes) on my WinForms wrapper library. I can also do an ad hoc talk about integrating between Python and .NET, though I don't know who'd be interested in that. I'm cool with it just being a social meetup, as long as it's not too far from downtown. - Feihong -- ------------------------------------------------------ Peter Christensen peter at pchristensen.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071009/cc01b78d/attachment.htm From mtemkin at speakeasy.net Tue Oct 9 17:38:16 2007 From: mtemkin at speakeasy.net (Marc Temkin) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:38:16 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ACM Tablet PC Presentation 10/10 Message-ID: <000f01c80a8a$69b73c80$3d25b580$@net> This information is also on the Chapter website at: http://www.acm.org/chapters/chicago The next meeting of the Chicago Chapter is: Tablet Computing in Education Wednesday, October 10, 2007 Presented by: Jeff Solin, National Board Certified Teacher in Computer Science and Mathematics, Northside College Prep High School 5:30 p.m. Social Hour, Dinner Buffet & Refreshments 6:30 p.m. Presentation Cost: $10 Chapter members $12 Non-members $5 Students TOPIC ABSTRACT: In his presentation in his computer lab, Jeff will cover the ways that tablets and other technologies have changed the fabric of high school education. The demonstration will cover the many ways that tablet PCs (in both a 1-to-1 and 1-many environment) can cause a paradigm shift in pedagogy. Pen-based technologies change how the educators present, demonstrate, organize, grade, and overall...teach. There will also be a discussion surrounding the need for tablet-specific applications in education, a fairly untapped market. Over the past three years, Jeff has focused his efforts on integrating the use of tablet PCs into every classroom. Through his work and the financial support of the school parent organization, all 70 teachers and administrators now use tablet PCs. His future plans include putting a tablet PC in the hands of each student. Jeff participates heavily in the growing number of organizations focusing on the pedagogical benefits of technology in the classroom. ABOUT THE SPEAKER: After graduation in 1998 Jeff moved to Chicago to work as a Software Engineer in the Cellular Networks and Space Sector at Motorola. In 2000, he left for the world of internet consulting covering e-commerce and live data-feed integration. After four years in consulting with Zefer, USWeb/CKS, MarchFirst, Spyonit, and 724 Solutions, Jeff decided to make a career change and teach Computer Science to high school students in the Chicago Public Schools. Through the Golden Apple Alternative Teacher Education (GATE) program at Northwestern University, he achieved certification and began teaching CS at one of the premier high schools in the country, Northside College Prep. He has redesigned curriculum to include a hardware logic component and has implemented a three course sequence of Computer Science courses: Intro and AP Programming in Java, and Computer Logic and Hardware Design. He also teaches an elective course where students fully rebuild vintage motorcycles focusing on the mechanics and dependency of multiple engine components. {* Please RESERVE *} Note: Please make your reservation as soon as you know you are coming. We need a headcount for the food. We order it in advance. Even if it is later than that, reserve anyway. Thanks. If you have not already done so, please make your meeting reservation by replying to this e-mail ( greg at neumarke.net ) You may also call Greg at (work) 773-907-3308 # This message contains news about the Chicago Chapter of the # ACM. You receive this because you agreed to it or gave your e-mail # address on the Chicago Chapter registration. If this message has # reached you in error, reply and ask to be removed from the list, or # to inform us of a new e-mail address. Marc Temkin DocsLink, Inc. 773-274-6544 mtemkin at speakeasy.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071009/9f6e95b4/attachment.htm From hamcferron at yahoo.com Tue Oct 9 17:33:24 2007 From: hamcferron at yahoo.com (Alex McFerron) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] .NET/Python In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <162761.32036.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would also be interested in both the .NET/Python as well the social. Peter Christensen wrote: I'd be interested in Feihong's presentation. I'm a .NET developer who hasn't worked with Python but is interested in learning. I'd also come to a social get together if no one can present anything on such short notice. -Peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Feihong Hsu To: The Chicago Python Users Group < chicago at python.org> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Chicago] Next Meeting? I can't help out with the meeting place, but I can give a short presentation (5-10 minutes) on my WinForms wrapper library. I can also do an ad hoc talk about integrating between Python and .NET, though I don't know who'd be interested in that. I'm cool with it just being a social meetup, as long as it's not too far from downtown. - Feihong -- ------------------------------------------------------ Peter Christensen peter at pchristensen.com _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071009/4a5b7968/attachment.htm From skip at pobox.com Tue Oct 9 17:42:26 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:42:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Short-term web app job... Message-ID: <18187.41314.840323.70203@montanaro.dyndns.org> (Replies off-list please...) We're looking for some help implementing a visual people finder for our company intranet. Click on a cube or office displayed in a plan view of the office and a number of bits of info about the denizen of that cube pops up (name, phone, email, picture, etc). Hover and you'll see a minimalist view (name, phone). It's not required that the functionality be implemented in MoinMoin, but it should be written in something we can maintain in the long run. For us that pretty much means Python (as opposed to PHP or RubyOnRails). The data are in a MySQL database, so that's a highly useful skill as well. Within the Python web app space we're pretty flexible. Our current intranet technology is just a MoinMoin wiki. If you know your stuff I imagine this should be a short-term project. I have no idea if it's a one-off or if it might lead to more work. Local candidates only. No recruiters please. Thanks, -- Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/ From carl at personnelware.com Tue Oct 9 19:55:55 2007 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:55:55 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470BC0AB.9080002@personnelware.com> If you have any thoughts of doing a talk at PyCon, now would be a great time to just wing it. (Talk submission is oping soon.) Carl K From skip at pobox.com Wed Oct 10 02:34:42 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:34:42 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... Message-ID: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to just "surf the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the one hand, web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the minimum system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have gone up a lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 w/ 1GB of RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just sitting there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye candy) seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's just sitting there? Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest CPU? What about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading email (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home computers. if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances it will actually be useful to someone? Skip From warren.lindsey at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 03:48:25 2007 From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:48:25 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> I recently experienced a similar issue but this was bandwidth related. Being very far away from home and any available wifi or even cellular reception, I was forced to connect to the net using this ancient technology called "dialup" After connecting at 56k or perhaps 33.6k and hearing the old scratchy handshake, I was on the net again. Loading www.google.com took over a minute. Redirecting from google.com to www.google.com then my personalized google homepage with ajax widgets took quite a bit of time. Gmail and Google.com both have the options of plain html, but sometimes it can take a while just to get to a place that allows you to make that choice. It may be interesting to compare utilization across bandwidth providers before and after the wide adoption of ajax. -Warren On 10/9/07, skip at pobox.com wrote: > ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to just "surf > the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the one hand, > web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the minimum > system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have gone up a > lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 w/ 1GB of > RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just sitting > there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye candy) > seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's just sitting > there? > > Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest CPU? What > about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading email > (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home computers. > if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances it will > actually be useful to someone? > > Skip > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cti.depaul.edu Wed Oct 10 05:00:29 2007 From: mdipierro at cti.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:00:29 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] gluon video In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <37445E1C-23D5-4CF2-810C-6B142CE347EA@cti.depaul.edu> EWF has been renamed Gluon. I made a short video about it for those who missed my presentation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBjja6N6IYk and released a new version (with source code obviously). Massimo From pfein at pobox.com Wed Oct 10 06:31:56 2007 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:31:56 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> Y'all need a serious dose of WWW, circa 1998, courtesy of Links2: http://links.twibright.com/ Super lightweight, images and some javascript support, but no CSS (a good thing, sometimes). And no, I don't understand what's up with the author's obsession with accurate color reproduction. --Pete On Tuesday October 9 2007 9:48:25 pm Warren Lindsey wrote: > I recently experienced a similar issue but this was bandwidth related. > Being very far away from home and any available wifi or even cellular > reception, I was forced to connect to the net using this ancient > technology called "dialup" After connecting at 56k or perhaps 33.6k > and hearing the old scratchy handshake, I was on the net again. > Loading www.google.com took over a minute. Redirecting from > google.com to www.google.com then my personalized google homepage with > ajax widgets took quite a bit of time. > > Gmail and Google.com both have the options of plain html, but > sometimes it can take a while just to get to a place that allows you > to make that choice. > > It may be interesting to compare utilization across bandwidth > providers before and after the wide adoption of ajax. > > -Warren > > On 10/9/07, skip at pobox.com wrote: > > ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to just > > "surf the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the > > one hand, web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, > > the minimum system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to > > have gone up a lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz > > PowerBook G4 w/ 1GB of RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 > > either. Just sitting there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads > > or other eye candy) seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing > > while it's just sitting there? > > > > Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest CPU? > > What about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading > > email (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home > > computers. if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the > > chances it will actually be useful to someone? > > > > Skip > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From maney at two14.net Wed Oct 10 13:41:48 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 06:41:48 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 12:31:56AM -0400, Pete wrote: > Y'all need a serious dose of WWW, circa 1998, courtesy of Links2: > http://links.twibright.com/ > > Super lightweight, images and some javascript support, but no CSS (a good > thing, sometimes). Absoutely. I still find that turning off CSS is usually the quickest way to make most sites with teeny-tiny type and idiotically narrow columns more pleasant to read. ...assuming I don't just close that tab and move on. > And no, I don't understand what's up with the author's obsession with accurate > color reproduction. Some people just do care. You can tell 'cause they'll never use an LCD without complaining about it. :-) Seriously? Might also be related to some of the pretty amazing problems that I've read about in earlier (?) browsers - what I dimly recall offhand is a warning about expecting (some?) browsers to render a background color to match the same RGB value in an image. Perhaps that was a relic of the nineties and the days when an 8-bit palette was state of the art. But after seeing the web site I incline to the theory that Accurate Color is just the author's pet hot button... just as many of us get huffy about elegant code. -- Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the law. - Justice John Paul Stevens, from his dissenting opinion Dec 12, 2000 From ph at malaprop.org Wed Oct 10 15:28:22 2007 From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:28:22 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20071010132822.GB6640@malaprop.org> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 06:41:48AM -0500, Martin Maney wrote: > Absoutely. I still find that turning off CSS is usually the quickest > way to make most sites with teeny-tiny type and idiotically narrow > columns more pleasant to read. You may find the Firefox NoSquint extension useful. You hit ctrl +/- as usual to change the font size in a page and it will remember what you set each site at accross pageviews and sessions. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2592 As for idiotically narrow columns... I find a 'print' link if I can, or (more likely) move on to another page. I suppose a GreaseMonkey script could be used to fix broken designs, but I've never been interested enough in a site to write one. -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://NearbyGamers.com From maney at two14.net Wed Oct 10 15:59:08 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:59:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <20071010132822.GB6640@malaprop.org> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> <20071010132822.GB6640@malaprop.org> Message-ID: <20071010135908.GA11095@furrr.two14.net> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 09:28:22AM -0400, Peter Harkins wrote: > You may find the Firefox NoSquint extension useful. You hit ctrl +/- > as usual to change the font size in a page and it will remember what you > set each site at accross pageviews and sessions. > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2592 I'll have to give that a look. I still miss the long-gone Galeon bit where it would remember stuff like that (maybe it was just CSS disable?) on a site basis, which was more often than not just the right granularity. Of course, I'm also still waiting for someone to do browser history in the style that the OS/2 Warp browser attempted (it tended to get confued if you'd navigated to the same page two or more different ways) - basically a tree, or perhaps better described as a forest where each typed-in URL was the root of a tree. So you could easily go back to a branch you'd gone down earlier (the curently standard sidebar history display is pretty lame for that if you've been wandering around a site - it squishes everything flat, discarding all the information about how you navigated (quasi-spatial context, that)). > As for idiotically narrow columns... I find a 'print' link if I can, or > (more likely) move on to another page. I suppose a GreaseMonkey script > could be used to fix broken designs, but I've never been interested > enough in a site to write one. Yeah, a good "print version", when there is one, is almost always better for actually reading anything longer than a few sentences. I had greasemonkey installed for a long time but never got motivated enough to mess with it much - the cost of getting it to tweak things always seemed to be greater than the benefits. I suppose I might feel differently if there were some site I *had* to use that needed more than CSS disabling to make it readable (or if it was more interactive, in which case disabling CSS might not be a viable option for fixing readability). But so far I haven't had that need. -- The phenomenon of financial excess associated with promising novel technologies is a recurring feature of the last two centuries. -- Andrew Odlyzko From sakamura at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 16:18:44 2007 From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:18:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <470CDF44.4020401@gmail.com> Depends on what operating system and browser your running. Also the age of the equipment you're using can be a factor too. Gmail uses AJAX which consumes more cpu time compared to browsing Gmail in HTML mode. skip at pobox.com wrote: > ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to just "surf > the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the one hand, > web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the minimum > system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have gone up a > lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 w/ 1GB of > RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just sitting > there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye candy) > seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's just sitting > there? > > Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest CPU? What > about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading email > (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home computers. > if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances it will > actually be useful to someone? > > Skip > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From ianb at colorstudy.com Wed Oct 10 16:48:19 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:48:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> skip at pobox.com wrote: > ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to just "surf > the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the one hand, > web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the minimum > system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have gone up a > lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 w/ 1GB of > RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just sitting > there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye candy) > seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's just sitting > there? Firefox has some really awful memory leaks. Gmail is pinging the server in the background (checking for new email), but there's no reason that should take up a significant amount of CPU. The actual calls involved in the Javascript really aren't that complicated, and the level of libraries and abstraction is still pretty low in most Ajax applications. > Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest CPU? What > about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading email > (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home computers. > if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances it will > actually be useful to someone? FWIW, Gmail works fine on the OLPC. I've heard people say that the OLPC browser (which uses the Mozilla rendering engine, but doesn't use the XUL frontend that Firefox uses) is noticeably faster than Firefox. But I've never used them both on a comparable platform, so I don't really know myself. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers From robkapteyn at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 17:17:14 2007 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Robert Kapteyn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:17:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: I have occasionally seen similar CPU spiking on my Mac and I decided it was a FireFox bug, perhaps only for the Mac. Opening the same page with Safari usually settles the issue. -Rob On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > skip at pobox.com wrote: >> ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to >> just "surf >> the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the >> one hand, >> web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the >> minimum >> system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have >> gone up a >> lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 >> w/ 1GB of >> RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just >> sitting >> there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye >> candy) >> seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's >> just sitting >> there? > > Firefox has some really awful memory leaks. Gmail is pinging the > server > in the background (checking for new email), but there's no reason that > should take up a significant amount of CPU. The actual calls involved > in the Javascript really aren't that complicated, and the level of > libraries and abstraction is still pretty low in most Ajax > applications. > >> Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest >> CPU? What >> about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading >> email >> (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home >> computers. >> if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances >> it will >> actually be useful to someone? > > FWIW, Gmail works fine on the OLPC. I've heard people say that the > OLPC > browser (which uses the Mozilla rendering engine, but doesn't use the > XUL frontend that Firefox uses) is noticeably faster than Firefox. > But > I've never used them both on a comparable platform, so I don't really > know myself. > > > -- > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From sakamura at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 17:32:45 2007 From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:32:45 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> Which version of firefox do you have? Robert Kapteyn wrote: > I have occasionally seen similar CPU spiking on my Mac and I decided > it was a FireFox bug, perhaps only for the Mac. > Opening the same page with Safari usually settles the issue. > -Rob > > > On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > >> skip at pobox.com wrote: >> >>> ... or is my poor old laptop having to work harder and harder to >>> just "surf >>> the web"? This AJAX technology has permeated everything. On the >>> one hand, >>> web sites can clearly be more interactive. On the other hand, the >>> minimum >>> system parameters necessary to simply browse the web seems to have >>> gone up a >>> lot in the past six months or so. I have an 800MHz PowerBook G4 >>> w/ 1GB of >>> RAM, not state-of-the-art of course, but not a P3 either. Just >>> sitting >>> there viewing Gmail (which has no stupid flashy ads or other eye >>> candy) >>> seems to consume about half my CPU. What's it doing while it's >>> just sitting >>> there? >>> >> Firefox has some really awful memory leaks. Gmail is pinging the >> server >> in the background (checking for new email), but there's no reason that >> should take up a significant amount of CPU. The actual calls involved >> in the Javascript really aren't that complicated, and the level of >> libraries and abstraction is still pretty low in most Ajax >> applications. >> >> >>> Does this have any ramifications for OLPC with its rather modest >>> CPU? What >>> about computer recycling in general? Browsing the web and reading >>> email >>> (often through the web) seem to be the most common uses for home >>> computers. >>> if I donate a compuetr to some organization what are the chances >>> it will >>> actually be useful to someone? >>> >> FWIW, Gmail works fine on the OLPC. I've heard people say that the >> OLPC >> browser (which uses the Mozilla rendering engine, but doesn't use the >> XUL frontend that Firefox uses) is noticeably faster than Firefox. >> But >> I've never used them both on a comparable platform, so I don't really >> know myself. >> >> >> -- >> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org >> : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From skip at pobox.com Wed Oct 10 18:43:17 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:43:17 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <18189.293.927717.679190@montanaro.dyndns.org> Ishmael> Which version of firefox do you have? I'm running FF 2.0.0.7 on my Mac. Skip From mtobis at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 18:58:50 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:58:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <18189.293.927717.679190@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> <18189.293.927717.679190@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Yeah, but some of the Google tools just refuse to even try to run on Safari. I hope someone cleans this up some day. I think the combination of skills and motivation ought to exist at Google to be Safari friendly, especially with the iPhone stuff happening. It's pretty hard to communicate with Google, or I'd have told them so already. mt From tcp at mac.com Wed Oct 10 19:04:01 2007 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:04:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> <18189.293.927717.679190@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <6CA4148D-B2DB-47EB-B35C-E2402E52FBC6@mac.com> On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Michael Tobis wrote: > Yeah, but some of the Google tools just refuse to even try to run > on Safari. > > I hope someone cleans this up some day. I think the combination of > skills and motivation ought to exist at Google to be Safari friendly, > especially with the iPhone stuff happening. > > It's pretty hard to communicate with Google, or I'd have told them > so already. > > mt The Safari3 beta solves much of this, doesn't it? -t From emily at cognizo.com Wed Oct 10 21:11:32 2007 From: emily at cognizo.com (Emily Bremer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:11:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Full time Python Developer positions Message-ID: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> A growing company in the north Chicago area is looking for experienced full time Python Developers. This company has developed a web based solution that improves the efficiency of communication and processing of construction project documents. They have a dynamic, fast paced environment, and the growth and career potential is very big. Their main technologies are Python, Java, PostgreSQL and DB2. They are looking for candidates who have 5-7 years of Python experience for a mid level position, and 10+ years of Python experience for a senior level position. Salary range is $80-100k+. If interested please send your resume to emily at cognizo.com. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/ec88a7ee/attachment.htm From pfein at pobox.com Wed Oct 10 22:21:04 2007 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:21:04 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Full time Python Developer positions In-Reply-To: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> References: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> Message-ID: <200710101621.04289.pfein@pobox.com> On Wednesday October 10 2007 3:11:32 pm Emily Bremer wrote: > position, and 10+ years of Python experience for a senior level > position. Salary range is $80-100k+. So 10 years ago would be what, Python 1.4? [0] How many of us even knew the language existed that long ago, let alone wrote anything more than overglorified shell scripts? [1] Point being, if you *really* want someone with that much experience, you're severely limiting your applicant pool and it's going to cost way more than $100K for a person who doesn't suck. This ain't Java, folks. --Pete [0] http://docs.python.org/api/node87.html [1] Besides Skip? -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From david at graniteweb.com Wed Oct 10 23:42:32 2007 From: david at graniteweb.com (David Rock) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:42:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Full time Python Developer positions In-Reply-To: <200710101621.04289.pfein@pobox.com> References: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> <200710101621.04289.pfein@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20071010214232.GA29439@wdfs> * Pete [2007-10-10 16:21]: > On Wednesday October 10 2007 3:11:32 pm Emily Bremer wrote: > > position, and 10+ years of Python experience for a senior level > > position. Salary range is $80-100k+. > > So 10 years ago would be what, Python 1.4? [0] How many of us even knew the > language existed that long ago, let alone wrote anything more than > overglorified shell scripts? [1] > > Point being, if you *really* want someone with that much experience, you're > severely limiting your applicant pool and it's going to cost way more than > $100K for a person who doesn't suck. > > This ain't Java, folks. > > --Pete > > [0] http://docs.python.org/api/node87.html > [1] Besides Skip? Yeah, I'll jump on this bandwagon, too. I happen to be one of those people that was using Python 10 years ago, but it was just an accident. ;-) I find statements like that just ignorant and make it obvious that either the people or the company don't really understand what they are asking for. -- David Rock david at graniteweb.com From emily at cognizo.com Wed Oct 10 23:54:21 2007 From: emily at cognizo.com (Emily Bremer) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:54:21 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Full time Python Developer positions In-Reply-To: <20071010214232.GA29439@wdfs> References: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> <200710101621.04289.pfein@pobox.com> <20071010214232.GA29439@wdfs> Message-ID: <470D4A0D.6010403@cognizo.com> Ok, sorry for the mistake--I meant to say 5-7 and 10+ years of professional software development experience, not exclusively Python experience. I realized this after I had posted this and thought about correcting it in another posting, but I guess people have already pointed it out. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. David Rock wrote: > * Pete [2007-10-10 16:21]: > >> On Wednesday October 10 2007 3:11:32 pm Emily Bremer wrote: >> >>> position, and 10+ years of Python experience for a senior level >>> position. Salary range is $80-100k+. >>> >> So 10 years ago would be what, Python 1.4? [0] How many of us even knew the >> language existed that long ago, let alone wrote anything more than >> overglorified shell scripts? [1] >> >> Point being, if you *really* want someone with that much experience, you're >> severely limiting your applicant pool and it's going to cost way more than >> $100K for a person who doesn't suck. >> >> This ain't Java, folks. >> >> --Pete >> >> [0] http://docs.python.org/api/node87.html >> [1] Besides Skip? >> > > Yeah, I'll jump on this bandwagon, too. I happen to be one of those > people that was using Python 10 years ago, but it was just an accident. > ;-) > > I find statements like that just ignorant and make it obvious that > either the people or the company don't really understand what they are > asking for. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/2492ad3b/attachment.htm From nerkles at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 00:12:36 2007 From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:12:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <6CA4148D-B2DB-47EB-B35C-E2402E52FBC6@mac.com> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <470CE633.9060903@colorstudy.com> <470CF09D.6010703@gmail.com> <18189.293.927717.679190@montanaro.dyndns.org> <6CA4148D-B2DB-47EB-B35C-E2402E52FBC6@mac.com> Message-ID: <194FFB52-7530-4B8D-95BC-2468BD633B12@gmail.com> On Oct 10, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Ted Pollari wrote: > > On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Michael Tobis wrote: > >> Yeah, but some of the Google tools just refuse to even try to run >> on Safari. >> >> I hope someone cleans this up some day. I think the combination of >> skills and motivation ought to exist at Google to be Safari friendly, >> especially with the iPhone stuff happening. >> >> > The Safari3 beta solves much of this, doesn't it? Yes! You can do "rich formatting" emails, Calendar and Reader work. Haven't tried the other apps yet... --Isaac From dkrunnfusz at wideopenwest.com Thu Oct 11 00:54:17 2007 From: dkrunnfusz at wideopenwest.com (dkrunnfusz at wideopenwest.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:54:17 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Full time Python Developer positions In-Reply-To: <470D4A0D.6010403@cognizo.com> References: <470D23E4.1010601@cognizo.com> <200710101621.04289.pfein@pobox.com> <20071010214232.GA29439@wdfs> <470D4A0D.6010403@cognizo.com> Message-ID: <20071010225307.M77285@wideopenwest.com> I used to work for this firm. I can assure you it is definitely a serious Python shop. Dave On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:54:21 -0500, Emily Bremer wrote > Ok, sorry for the mistake--I meant to say 5-7 and 10+ years ofprofessional software development experience, not exclusively Pythonexperience. I realized this after I had posted this and thought aboutcorrecting it in another posting, but I guess people have alreadypointed it out. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. > > David Rock wrote:* Pete [2007-10-10 16:21]: On Wednesday October 10 2007 3:11:32 pm Emily Bremer wrote: position, and 10+ years of Python experience for a senior level position. Salary range is $80-100k+. So 10 years ago would be what, Python 1.4? [0] How many of us even knew the language existed that long ago, let alone wrote anything more than overglorified shell scripts? [1] Point being, if you *really* want someone with that much experience, you're severely limiting your applicant pool and it's going to cost way more than $100K for a person who doesn't suck. This ain't Java, folks. --Pete [0] http://docs.python.org/api/node87.html [1] Besides Skip? Yeah, I'll jump on this bandwagon, too. I happen to be one of those people that was using Python 10 years ago, but it was just an accident. ;-) I find statements like that just ignorant and make it obvious that either the people or the company don't really understand what they are asking for. -- WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/f8d6d536/attachment-0001.htm From peter at pchristensen.com Thu Oct 11 04:58:08 2007 From: peter at pchristensen.com (Peter Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:58:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ACM Tablet PC Presentation 10/10 Message-ID: Did anyone go to the ACM Chicago meeting tonight? I wanted to go but I had family in town. I'd love to hear a recap if anyone went. Thanks, Peter -- ------------------------------------------------------ Peter Christensen peter at pchristensen.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/2688c62a/attachment.htm From jason at hostedlabs.com Thu Oct 11 04:45:39 2007 From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:45:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Web UI Performance (is it just me..) In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470D8E53.8090900@hostedlabs.com> quickly scanned that last thread about web browser performance and site designs.. This video sheds a lot of light on some of the behaviors mentioned. http://www.oreillynet.com/fyi/blog/2007/09/steve_souders_high_performance.html From pohara at virtualmotors.com Thu Oct 11 05:41:31 2007 From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:41:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Meeting? References: <2dfd89af0710041615l2891a170p8285108c4053ce37@mail.gmail.com> <470BC0AB.9080002@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <008401c80bb8$9dc8ce10$7d02a8c0@IBMUO5W0HB49M3> Carl How was Whil's Talk? SQL SERVER 2005 is so much fun... Patrick how's your Mac Book doing? PS I don't see any scheduled meeting in this Listserv rumour mill -->> Cyberia Cafe - more info ? 701 N. Wells, Chicago, IL (312) 573-2789 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Karsten" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago] Next Meeting? > If you have any thoughts of doing a talk at PyCon, now would be a great > time to > just wing it. > > (Talk submission is oping soon.) > > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From robkapteyn at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 07:30:43 2007 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Robert Kapteyn) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:30:43 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Updated wiki for tomorrow's gathering Message-ID: Assuming that there will be a social gathering at Cyberia tomorrow, I put an FYI on on ChiPy wiki: http://www.chipy.org Unfortunately, I doubt that I can make it myself ;-( (but I'll try) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071011/88e885b3/attachment.htm From robk at tallchicago.org Thu Oct 11 02:46:56 2007 From: robk at tallchicago.org (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:46:56 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Updated wiki for tomorrow's gathering Message-ID: Assuming that there will be a social gathering at Cyberia tomorrow, I put an FYI on on ChiPy wiki: http://www.chipy.org Unfortunately, I doubt that I can make it myself ;-( (but I'll try) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/d2a04fdf/attachment.htm From peter at pchristensen.com Thu Oct 11 04:56:44 2007 From: peter at pchristensen.com (Peter Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:56:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Meeting at Cyberia at 7pm? Message-ID: So was the final verdict that we'd have a social meet-up this month, at Cyberia, at 7pm? Cyberia Cafe http://www.cyberiacoffee.com/ 701 N. Wells Chicago, IL 60610 (312) 573-2789 http://maps.google.com/maps?num=30&hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=cyberia&near=Chicago,+IL&fb=1&cid=0,0,1287947364048721886&ll=41.894627,-87.635343&spn=0.01067,0.020084&z=16&om=1 -- ------------------------------------------------------ Peter Christensen peter at pchristensen.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071010/b6804e77/attachment.htm From skip at pobox.com Thu Oct 11 15:21:40 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:21:40 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... Message-ID: <18190.9060.891185.326966@montanaro.dyndns.org> Someone in this thread mentioned Safari 3 beta, so I downloaded it last night and took it for a spin. *Much* faster than Firefox. Yow! Thanks, Skip From special.kevin at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 21:17:12 2007 From: special.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Harriss) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:17:12 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Meeting at Cyberia at 7pm? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470E76B8.6070801@gmail.com> So has it been decided if we are having a social meeting at Cyberia tonight at 7pm? Since I work right by there I would probably stop by and hang out. Kevin Harriss Peter Christensen wrote: > So was the final verdict that we'd have a social meet-up this month, > at Cyberia, at 7pm? > > Cyberia Cafe > http://www.cyberiacoffee.com/ > 701 N. Wells > Chicago, IL 60610 > (312) 573-2789 > > http://maps.google.com/maps?num=30&hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=cyberia&near=Chicago,+IL&fb=1&cid=0,0,1287947364048721886&ll=41.894627,-87.635343&spn=0.01067,0.020084&z=16&om=1 > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > Peter Christensen > peter at pchristensen.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Oct 11 21:39:34 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:39:34 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Meeting at Cyberia at 7pm? In-Reply-To: <470E76B8.6070801@gmail.com> References: <470E76B8.6070801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <470E7BF6.3070303@colorstudy.com> Kevin Harriss wrote: > So has it been decided if we are having a social meeting at Cyberia > tonight at 7pm? Since I work right by there I would probably stop by > and hang out. Yes, it's on, because... well, it's the only plan we got ;) We'll try to think ahead just a tad more for November, I hope... -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org : Write code, do good : http://topp.openplans.org/careers From fred at ontosys.com Thu Oct 11 23:14:14 2007 From: fred at ontosys.com (Fred Yankowski) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:14:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] Is it just me ... In-Reply-To: <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> References: <18188.7714.989319.217762@montanaro.dyndns.org> <841e880a0710091848l5cbf3f88q27dc736834651b6c@mail.gmail.com> <200710100031.56966.pfein@pobox.com> <20071010114148.GA10438@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20071011211414.GA11715@ontosoft.com> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 06:41:48AM -0500, Martin Maney wrote: > Absoutely. I still find that turning off CSS is usually the quickest > way to make most sites with teeny-tiny type and idiotically narrow > columns more pleasant to read. ...assuming I don't just close that tab > and move on. I like to use the "zap style sheets" and "zap presentational html" bookmarklets from https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/ to remove CSS and other style markup from overly-styled pages to make them easier to read. -- Fred Yankowski From emperorcezar at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 00:42:38 2007 From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:42:38 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Contractual Django Developer Position Message-ID: <58a5f2220710111542t6e4d0e3ak4bca0d91def648e2@mail.gmail.com> The Institute of Design of Chicago, IL is seeking an experienced Django developer to create an in-house contact and mailing web application. The application manages the contacts for the different conferences and events at the Institute of Design. The ideal candidate has experience with at least one completed Django application, the more the better. Good communication is required as the applicant will also be involved with design of the application. Pay is negotiable. This is a contractual position. Local applicants only. Applicant must be able to attend meetings at the Institute of Design 350 N. La Salle St. Chicago, IL 60610 please contact alon at id.iit.edu and cezar at id.iit.edu if interested. -- --------------------------------------- Adam Jenkins cezar at id.iit.edu 312-595-2216 --------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071011/f7f9f1c6/attachment.htm From ph at malaprop.org Fri Oct 12 18:02:08 2007 From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:02:08 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] recruiter spam? Message-ID: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> Any other recent posters to the ChiPy list hear from a recruiter about an "AWESOME" but otherwise totally un-elaborated-upon Chicago position? -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://NearbyGamers.com From skip at pobox.com Fri Oct 12 18:29:29 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:29:29 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> Message-ID: <18191.41193.438937.803421@montanaro.dyndns.org> Peter> Any other recent posters to the ChiPy list hear from a recruiter Peter> about an "AWESOME" but otherwise totally un-elaborated-upon Peter> Chicago position? Yes. Since I am actually looking for a Python programmer, I simply forwarded her a link to TradeLink's current posting on the Python Job Board. Haven't heard back from her since. Skip From maney at two14.net Fri Oct 12 18:46:34 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:46:34 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free associations and Re: [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> Message-ID: <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 12:02:08PM -0400, Peter Harkins wrote: > Any other recent posters to the ChiPy list hear from a recruiter about > an "AWESOME" but otherwise totally un-elaborated-upon Chicago position? I'm not 100% certain about the "AWESOME" part, but there was an off-list, vaguely described recruitment email that mentioned Python recently, yes. I think that exhausts everything I might rememebr about it, as it went very quickly to the place that such trash belongs, and is no longer accessible here at all, at all. BTW, and thinking of the recent discussion, I see you still have a very typical blog, with nasty teeny body text (sized in pixels, for all that's silly!) and lots of useless, blog-standard whitespace making the text a fairly narrow column. Firebug made it pretty simple to find the offending CSS (font-size in body, width in #primary .primary), and with those disabled it no longer looks so stylish - a style which unavoidably makes me think of a poor student trying to hide the fact that he has far less to say than the assignment required. I know, it's an inapproriate response in this context, but that's free associations for ya... So in this recent context that got me thinking that if Firebug and greasemonkey were a little bit integrated, this fixing silly formatting in web pages thing might seem more worth the effort... assuming I read any blogs more often than every once in a while anyhow. -- Remember the refrain: We always build on the past; the past always tries to stop us. Freedom is about stopping the past, but we have lost that ideal. -- Lawrence Lessig From bray at sent.com Fri Oct 12 19:00:16 2007 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:00:16 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free associations and Re: [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <1192208416.26381.1215582403@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:46:34 -0500, "Martin Maney" said: > > BTW, and thinking of the recent discussion, I see you still have a very > typical blog, with nasty teeny body text (sized in pixels, for all > that's silly!) and lots of useless, blog-standard whitespace making the > text a fairly narrow column. Firebug made it pretty simple to find the > offending CSS (font-size in body, width in #primary .primary), and with > those disabled it no longer looks so stylish - a style which > unavoidably makes me think of a poor student trying to hide the fact > that he has far less to say than the assignment required. I know, it's > an inapproriate response in this context, but that's free associations > for ya... > Maney, did you miss the "Powered by WordPress; flavored by Hemingway Revolutions," fine print. Yes, we should flog Peter for choosing such an atrsy theme, but doesn't the fact that he has a puppy peeing on a laptop make up for this? -- Brian From ph at malaprop.org Fri Oct 12 20:55:40 2007 From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:55:40 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Free associations and Re: [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <20071012185540.GJ6585@malaprop.org> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:46:34AM -0500, Martin Maney wrote: > BTW, and thinking of the recent discussion, I see you still have a very > typical blog, with nasty teeny body text (sized in pixels, for all > that's silly!) and lots of useless, blog-standard whitespace making the > text a fairly narrow column. Yep, guilty as charged. I found a WordPress theme, dropped it in, spent a few hours tinkering with it, and called it good. I've been meaning for almost two years now to get back to it, improve it a bit, and write up a blog post about it, but it has been stuck in "If it's not too badly broken..." category. Hey, I'm open to diffs... -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://NearbyGamers.com From maney at two14.net Sat Oct 13 00:53:32 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:53:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free associations and Re: [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <1192208416.26381.1215582403@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> <1192208416.26381.1215582403@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20071012225332.GB12982@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 12:00:16PM -0500, bray at sent.com wrote: > Maney, did you miss the "Powered by WordPress; flavored by Hemingway > Revolutions," fine print. Yes, we should flog Peter for choosing such > an atrsy theme, but doesn't the fact that he has a puppy peeing on a > laptop make up for this? I'm fine with artsy, as long as the cost of the art isn't the content. As for the puppy doing a mischief to the laptop, it might, even though I've seen that before, if this were a photo gallery, not a blog whose author's words are more interesting that puppy piddles. Now, if it were a puppy and an iPod, maybe... -- If there is a lesson to be learnt from Adobe's eBook fiasco, it is that litigation is no substitute for well-designed software. -- The Economist From maney at two14.net Sat Oct 13 01:29:20 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:29:20 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Free associations and Re: [OT] recruiter spam? In-Reply-To: <20071012185540.GJ6585@malaprop.org> References: <20071012160208.GG6585@malaprop.org> <20071012164634.GA12982@furrr.two14.net> <20071012185540.GJ6585@malaprop.org> Message-ID: <20071012232920.GC12982@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 02:55:40PM -0400, Peter Harkins wrote: > On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 11:46:34AM -0500, Martin Maney wrote: > > BTW, and thinking of the recent discussion, I see you still have a very > > typical blog, with nasty teeny body text (sized in pixels, for all > > that's silly!) and lots of useless, blog-standard whitespace making the > > text a fairly narrow column. > > Yep, guilty as charged. I found a WordPress theme, dropped it in, spent > a few hours tinkering with it, and called it good. I've been meaning for > almost two years now to get back to it, improve it a bit, and write up a > blog post about it, but it has been stuck in "If it's not too badly > broken..." category. > > Hey, I'm open to diffs... --- style.css, line 42 - font-size: 11px; That makes it readable, but unless your font was 11px anyway you may want to fiddle with other layout elements. The "width: 65%" on line 551 of style.css is the one I had firebug disable, but I think I saw some metadata that was displayed to the left of the content (not here, so it must only have been on a linked-to page?) which seemed to get pushed right out of sight, so simple elimination probably isn't going to do the job. I also found the text more readable when the various shade of grey color: items were turned off - there were two along the inheritance path IIRC - but that wasn't too bad - #222222 only made it look a bit faded. Just want to mention again that you're only getting this possibly useful feedback because of the fine folks who gave us firebug. There have been other vaguely similar tools done as Firefox plugins, but none of them have been useful enough that I kept them (though that may have more to do with the amount of web design & troubleshooting I find myself doing these days). -- Neither can his mind be in tune, whose words do jarre, nor his reason in frame, whose sentence is preposterous. -- Ben Jonson From doug at dougma.com Mon Oct 15 20:57:33 2007 From: doug at dougma.com (Douglas Napoleone) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:57:33 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Pycon-Tech IRC meeting tomorrow, Oct 16th. 2pm EST (#pycon@freenode.net) Message-ID: Sorry for the short notice, There will be a PyCon-Tech meeting tomorrow at 2pm EST, held on IRC in the #pycon channel on freenode.net. The proposal system is now live, and it is time to shift focus to other areas of the conference software. The agenda is here: https://pycon.coderanger.net/wiki/Meetings The Agenda for those like me who hate leaving a perfectly good e-mail client: 1. revamp the roadmap dates/times due to the late proposal start This includes getting fixed times for the registration system. https://pycon.coderanger.net/roadmap 2. go over the work left on the proposal system: https://pycon.coderanger.net/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Talk+Review+System 3. Flesh out the social network ideas: What social networks should we be integrating with? How? what are the benefits? A wiki page on the subject has been started here: https://pycon.coderanger.net/wiki/PyCon08/SocialNetworks 4. The site is still missing lots of content: https://pycon.coderanger.net/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=website&order=priority -Doug Napoleone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071015/42ad6b3a/attachment.htm From Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com Mon Oct 15 22:08:42 2007 From: Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com (Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Marty Murphy is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 10/15/2007 and will not return until 10/17/2007. If you need to contact me please call me on my cell at 312.848.9843 Thank you! ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail and its attachments may contain Manpower Inc. proprietary information, which is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, or subject to COPYRIGHT belonging to Manpower Inc. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. 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For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 18:38:00 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:38:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization Message-ID: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, So, our organization-less organization system failed last month. I'm not as available as I used to be to take care of some of the down and dirty details of ChiPy. In the past, other folks have stepped up, and we've been alright. However, in recent months, its becoming harder and harder to identify who's responsible for getting all the paperwork together for a meeting. So. What do we do? We tried having sign ups for individual meeting planning, but that sort of didn't work. I'm proposing that we consider creating a BDFSM, the benevolent dictator for six months. A six month "officer" who is responsible for all ChiPy meeting planning business for a period of six months, or six meetings. Making it a teeny bit more formal breaks my hippy heart, but I think it's good for a few reasons: 1) It's easier to plan six meetings than it is one meeting. 2) We know who to go to, we only have to figure out who to go to once every six months. 3) The BDFSM gets some nice resume candy. What say ye? Chris From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Oct 18 22:28:08 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:28:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> Chris McAvoy wrote: > I'm proposing that we consider creating a BDFSM, the benevolent > dictator for six months. A six month "officer" who is responsible for > all ChiPy meeting planning business for a period of six months, or six > meetings. Making it a teeny bit more formal breaks my hippy heart, > but I think it's good for a few reasons: > > 1) It's easier to plan six meetings than it is one meeting. Maybe we could also line up venues a little further ahead of time; maybe for all six months if possible. Getting presentations together in a JIT fashion isn't too bad, but venues are harder. BDFSM still has to respond to cancellations, etc., but this will make it all much easier I think. > 2) We know who to go to, we only have to figure out who to go to once > every six months. > > 3) The BDFSM gets some nice resume candy. Probably we should have a better title for the resume. I think BDFSM will look kinky on a resume. "President" sounds a little too formal, "coordinator" way too generic. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From bray at sent.com Thu Oct 18 22:39:26 2007 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:39:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:38:00 -0500, "Chris McAvoy" said: > > I'm proposing that we consider creating a BDFSM, the benevolent > dictator for six months. A six month "officer" who is responsible for > all ChiPy meeting planning business for a period of six months, or six > meetings. Making it a teeny bit more formal breaks my hippy heart, > but I think it's good for a few reasons: > I am interested in being the second BDFSM. I nominate myself for when the time comes. As you know, I have organized and hosted lots of meetings in the past. Also, I am fairly good at shaking babies and kissing hands--switch that, other way around :p I wish I could do it now, but I am committed (other say I need to be) every thursday until new years. I think we need to start nominations for the first BDFSM, today. Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Thu Oct 18 22:45:50 2007 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Python Challenge In-Reply-To: <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <76055.7349.qm@web34812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Has anyone checked out The Python Challenge (http://www.pythonchallenge.com/)? It's a pretty cool way to exercise your Python skills. Unfortunately, I'm finding the riddle part of the challenge way too hard. The programming part of it hasn't been too tough so far. - Feihong P.S. I'm totally stuck on #7 (out of 33). What do those little [color] [things] mean? Can anybody give me a small hint? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071018/800e229a/attachment.htm From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 22:49:14 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:49:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710181349o1f961cb3v6b24899c05ea1c6c@mail.gmail.com> On 10/18/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > > > 3) The BDFSM gets some nice resume candy. > > Probably we should have a better title for the resume. I think BDFSM > will look kinky on a resume. "President" sounds a little too formal, > "coordinator" way too generic. Yeah, I want to be clever and pythonic, but those things are never good for resumes. Resume readers hate clever...and python. Chris From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 22:51:19 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:51:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> On 10/18/07, bray at sent.com wrote: > > I think we need to start nominations for the first BDFSM, today. With an emphasis (in my opinion) on self-nominations. A willingness to coordinate is probably more important than just about anything else. If you (royal you, not just bray) are interested in doing this, we (the people that have chiefly been organizational in nature) can help you over the learning hump. No experience is necessary, just a willingness to commit for a chunk of time. And we will work out this naming thing...somehow. Chris From bray at sent.com Thu Oct 18 22:59:08 2007 From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:59:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Challenge In-Reply-To: <76055.7349.qm@web34812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <76055.7349.qm@web34812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1192741148.12254.1216650855@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:45:50 -0700 (PDT), "Feihong Hsu" said: > > P.S. I'm totally stuck on #7 (out of 33). What do those little [color] > [things] mean? Can anybody give me a small hint? Do not look at this page unless you want a hint: Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Thu Oct 18 22:59:15 2007 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've been working for a while now to get the other programmers at my company more interested in Python. I think management is warming up to the idea, so next Friday we'll have an all-day Python training course. During the lunch break the programmers who couldn't do the course will have the chance to come into the cafeteria and help us eat the extra food. I would like to make a one page Python flyer that they can read while they're munching on free food. Has anyone done anything similar to this? What kind of stuff should I include on it? We do have a "Why Python" page on our internal wiki, though I think it's kind of lame (I should know, I wrote it). But it's basically all I have that as a starting point for my flyer. I'll paste the text below for people to critique and comment on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other "Why Python" Articles A lot of smart people have written up their reasons for using Python, and I bet a lot of them are more well written than this one. * Beginners and Experts by Jono DiCarlo * Why the DLR and What is Python Used For? by Michael Foord * Python Answers by Bruce Eckel * Type import this into the Python interpreter to read the "Zen of Python". Python Facts * Python is mature, it's been around since 1989, it has a huge standard library that covers most common programming tasks. * Python is dynamically typed, that means there are no type declarations. * Python uses indentation for blocks of code, the curly braces {} don't mean anything in Python. * Python is a dynamic language, it doesn't need a compiler because everything is interpreted. * Python's interactive interpreter lets you run individual lines of code and immediately see what they do. * Python integrates with .NET. Who Uses Python * Morningstar * Google * Microsoft * Cisco (IronPort - internet security) * O'Reilly * Hewlett-Packard (Tabblo - photographic storytelling) * Canonical (makers of Ubuntu Linux) * VMWare (virtualization) * Sony Imageworks (state-of-the-art visual effects and character animation) * EWT (securities trading) * ...and many more! Interesting Projects Coded in Python * Trac - Software project management and issue tracking. * Review Board - Code reviews are fun again! ...almost. * Bazaar - Distributed source control system. * BitTorrent - Please, I know you know what this is. Python Projects That Are Making a Difference * OLPC - Free laptops for children in third world countries * Chicago Crime - Browsable database of crimes reported in Chicago * The US Congress Votes Database - Browse every vote in the U.S. Congress since 1991. * The Open Planning Project - Tools to enhance government transparency and citizen participation. * Pvote, prototype software for voting machines - a voter interaction system focusing on simplicity, openness, and accessibility ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks in advance for any responses, Feihong __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071018/12292bb6/attachment.htm From carl at personnelware.com Thu Oct 18 23:16:25 2007 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:16:25 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4717CD29.7020308@personnelware.com> Feihong Hsu wrote: > I've been working for a while now to get the other programmers at my company more interested in Python. I think management is warming up to the idea, so next Friday we'll have an all-day Python training course. > > During the lunch break the programmers who couldn't do the course will have the chance to come into the cafeteria and help us eat the extra food. I would like to make a one page Python flyer that they can read while they're munching on free food. Has anyone done anything similar to this? What kind of stuff should I include on it? > > We do have a "Why Python" page on our internal wiki, though I think it's kind of lame (I should know, I wrote it). But it's basically all I have that as a starting point for my flyer. I'll paste the text below for people to critique and comment on. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Other "Why Python" Articles > > A lot of smart people have written up their reasons for using Python, and I bet a lot of them are more well written than this one. > > * Beginners and Experts by Jono DiCarlo > * Why the DLR and What is Python Used For? by Michael Foord > * Python Answers by Bruce Eckel > * Type import this into the Python interpreter to read the "Zen of Python". > > Python Facts > > * Python is mature, it's been around since 1989, it has a huge standard library that covers most common programming tasks. > * Python is dynamically typed, that means there are no type declarations. > * Python uses indentation for blocks of code, the curly braces {} don't mean anything in Python. > * Python is a dynamic language, it doesn't need a compiler because everything is interpreted. > * Python's interactive interpreter lets you run individual lines of code and immediately see what they do. > * Python integrates with .NET. > > Who Uses Python > > * Morningstar > * Google > * Microsoft > * Cisco (IronPort - internet security) > * O'Reilly > * Hewlett-Packard (Tabblo - photographic storytelling) > * Canonical (makers of Ubuntu Linux) > * VMWare (virtualization) > * Sony Imageworks (state-of-the-art visual effects and character animation) > * EWT (securities trading) > * ...and many more! > > Interesting Projects Coded in Python > > * Trac - Software project management and issue tracking. > * Review Board - Code reviews are fun again! ...almost. > * Bazaar - Distributed source control system. > * BitTorrent - Please, I know you know what this is. > > Python Projects That Are Making a Difference > > * OLPC - Free laptops for children in third world countries > * Chicago Crime - Browsable database of crimes reported in Chicago > * The US Congress Votes Database - Browse every vote in the U.S. Congress since 1991. > * The Open Planning Project - Tools to enhance government transparency and citizen participation. > * Pvote, prototype software for voting machines - a voter interaction system focusing on simplicity, openness, and accessibility > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- nice work. Add a plug for http://us.pycon.org/2008 :) You should join the http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy list repost this (both request and your work). Carl K From cstejerean at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 00:21:39 2007 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:21:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <4717CD29.7020308@personnelware.com> References: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4717CD29.7020308@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <276266d0710181521s6ff0f03bs56802cf1f3b14468@mail.gmail.com> Maybe this will help, my top two reasons for using Python are: 1. ipython (enhances the python shell and makes programming awesome. i haven't seen anyone not impressed by ipython) 2. list comprehensions [(customer.name, customer.email) for customer in customers if customer.member_since > 2000] Also, curly braces do mean something in Python( a = {} ) - Cosmin On 10/18/07, Carl Karsten wrote: > > Feihong Hsu wrote: > > I've been working for a while now to get the other programmers at my > company more interested in Python. I think management is warming up to the > idea, so next Friday we'll have an all-day Python training course. > > > > During the lunch break the programmers who couldn't do the course will > have the chance to come into the cafeteria and help us eat the extra food. I > would like to make a one page Python flyer that they can read while they're > munching on free food. Has anyone done anything similar to this? What kind > of stuff should I include on it? > > > > We do have a "Why Python" page on our internal wiki, though I think it's > kind of lame (I should know, I wrote it). But it's basically all I have that > as a starting point for my flyer. I'll paste the text below for people to > critique and comment on. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Other "Why Python" Articles > > > > A lot of smart people have written up their reasons for using Python, > and I bet a lot of them are more well written than this one. > > > > * Beginners and Experts by Jono DiCarlo > > * Why the DLR and What is Python Used For? by Michael Foord > > * Python Answers by Bruce Eckel > > * Type import this into the Python interpreter to read the "Zen of > Python". > > > > Python Facts > > > > * Python is mature, it's been around since 1989, it has a huge > standard library that covers most common programming tasks. > > * Python is dynamically typed, that means there are no type > declarations. > > * Python uses indentation for blocks of code, the curly braces {} > don't mean anything in Python. > > * Python is a dynamic language, it doesn't need a compiler because > everything is interpreted. > > * Python's interactive interpreter lets you run individual lines of > code and immediately see what they do. > > * Python integrates with .NET. > > > > Who Uses Python > > > > * Morningstar > > * Google > > * Microsoft > > * Cisco (IronPort - internet security) > > * O'Reilly > > * Hewlett-Packard (Tabblo - photographic storytelling) > > * Canonical (makers of Ubuntu Linux) > > * VMWare (virtualization) > > * Sony Imageworks (state-of-the-art visual effects and character > animation) > > * EWT (securities trading) > > * ...and many more! > > > > Interesting Projects Coded in Python > > > > * Trac - Software project management and issue tracking. > > * Review Board - Code reviews are fun again! ...almost. > > * Bazaar - Distributed source control system. > > * BitTorrent - Please, I know you know what this is. > > > > Python Projects That Are Making a Difference > > > > * OLPC - Free laptops for children in third world countries > > * Chicago Crime - Browsable database of crimes reported in Chicago > > * The US Congress Votes Database - Browse every vote in the U.S. > Congress since 1991. > > * The Open Planning Project - Tools to enhance government > transparency and citizen participation. > > * Pvote, prototype software for voting machines - a voter > interaction system focusing on simplicity, openness, and accessibility > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > nice work. Add a plug for http://us.pycon.org/2008 :) > > You should join the http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy > list repost this (both request and your work). > > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071018/d15e36fb/attachment.htm From rcriii at ramsdells.net Fri Oct 19 00:07:52 2007 From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (rcriii at ramsdells.net) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710181349o1f961cb3v6b24899c05ea1c6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710181349o1f961cb3v6b24899c05ea1c6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19296.12.20.83.70.1192745272.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> > On 10/18/07, Ian Bicking wrote: >> > >> > 3) The BDFSM gets some nice resume candy. >> >> Probably we should have a better title for the resume. I think BDFSM >> will look kinky on a resume. "President" sounds a little too formal, >> "coordinator" way too generic. > > Yeah, I want to be clever and pythonic, but those things are never > good for resumes. Resume readers hate clever...and python. I suggest "Secretary" or "Secretary-General", depending on how pompous we want to be. I have no idea who this should be (not surprising given how few meetings I've made in the last year), but am grateful and impressed by those of you who have been coordinating for us so far. Robert From mtobis at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 00:38:57 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:38:57 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <19296.12.20.83.70.1192745272.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710181349o1f961cb3v6b24899c05ea1c6c@mail.gmail.com> <19296.12.20.83.70.1192745272.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: BDFSM should get to specify the title, methinks, as his/her first official act. mt From rcriii at ramsdells.net Fri Oct 19 00:04:34 2007 From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (rcriii at ramsdells.net) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:04:34 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18741.12.20.83.70.1192745074.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> > > I would like to make a one page Python flyer that they can read while > they're munching on free food. Has anyone done anything similar to this? > What kind of stuff should I include on it? I suggest handing out this, and being available to discuss it: http://www.xs4all.nl/~leintje/stuff/pyspotting.pdf Robert From carl at personnelware.com Fri Oct 19 01:02:44 2007 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:02:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization and PyCon talks In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <4717C1D8.8080906@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710181349o1f961cb3v6b24899c05ea1c6c@mail.gmail.com> <19296.12.20.83.70.1192745272.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: <4717E614.6070806@personnelware.com> If 6 speaker type people will submit PyCon talk proposals, I'll take the helm. http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/proposals/ Carl K From szybalski at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 02:44:24 2007 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:44:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] vim and autocomplete Message-ID: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I finally figured out how to do autocomplete in vim and I wanted to share it with you guys. Instructions are here: http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c Here is a screenshot: http://lucasmanual.com/out/vim-python-autocomplete.jpg I didn't know that 3 lines of code in vim and Ctrl+n was all it took Its great!!!! Lucas -- -- TurboGears from start to finish: http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Oct 19 04:34:50 2007 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <276266d0710181521s6ff0f03bs56802cf1f3b14468@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <217473.71363.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ipython is indeed very cool, but I don't know how to easily convey that in a flyer. But your point about list comprehensions is good, since it's stuff that most .NET programmers have never used before, but it's really easy to understand at a glance. It reminds me of the talk Jim Hugunin gave where he mercilessly mocked some C# code by showing how simple the equivalent Python code was. I'm thinking about pulling all of the lists out of the flyer, except for the "Who Uses Python?" part, where I'll make sure to include all the pretty corporate logos. And yes, I'll remember to add a plug for PyCon 08. Thanks, Feihong Cosmin Stejerean wrote: Maybe this will help, my top two reasons for using Python are: 1. ipython (enhances the python shell and makes programming awesome. i haven't seen anyone not impressed by ipython) 2. list comprehensions [( customer.name, customer.email) for customer in customers if customer.member_since > 2000] Also, curly braces do mean something in Python( a = {} ) - Cosmin On 10/18/07, Carl Karsten wrote: Feihong Hsu wrote: > I've been working for a while now to get the other programmers at my company more interested in Python. I think management is warming up to the idea, so next Friday we'll have an all-day Python training course. > > During the lunch break the programmers who couldn't do the course will have the chance to come into the cafeteria and help us eat the extra food. I would like to make a one page Python flyer that they can read while they're munching on free food. Has anyone done anything similar to this? What kind of stuff should I include on it? > > We do have a "Why Python" page on our internal wiki, though I think it's kind of lame (I should know, I wrote it). But it's basically all I have that as a starting point for my flyer. I'll paste the text below for people to critique and comment on. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Other "Why Python" Articles > > A lot of smart people have written up their reasons for using Python, and I bet a lot of them are more well written than this one. > > * Beginners and Experts by Jono DiCarlo > * Why the DLR and What is Python Used For? by Michael Foord > * Python Answers by Bruce Eckel > * Type import this into the Python interpreter to read the "Zen of Python". > > Python Facts > > * Python is mature, it's been around since 1989, it has a huge standard library that covers most common programming tasks. > * Python is dynamically typed, that means there are no type declarations. > * Python uses indentation for blocks of code, the curly braces {} don't mean anything in Python. > * Python is a dynamic language, it doesn't need a compiler because everything is interpreted. > * Python's interactive interpreter lets you run individual lines of code and immediately see what they do. > * Python integrates with .NET. > > Who Uses Python > > * Morningstar > * Google > * Microsoft > * Cisco (IronPort - internet security) > * O'Reilly > * Hewlett-Packard (Tabblo - photographic storytelling) > * Canonical (makers of Ubuntu Linux) > * VMWare (virtualization) > * Sony Imageworks (state-of-the-art visual effects and character animation) > * EWT (securities trading) > * ...and many more! > > Interesting Projects Coded in Python > > * Trac - Software project management and issue tracking. > * Review Board - Code reviews are fun again! ...almost. > * Bazaar - Distributed source control system. > * BitTorrent - Please, I know you know what this is. > > Python Projects That Are Making a Difference > > * OLPC - Free laptops for children in third world countries > * Chicago Crime - Browsable database of crimes reported in Chicago > * The US Congress Votes Database - Browse every vote in the U.S. Congress since 1991. > * The Open Planning Project - Tools to enhance government transparency and citizen participation. > * Pvote, prototype software for voting machines - a voter interaction system focusing on simplicity, openness, and accessibility > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- nice work. Add a plug for http://us.pycon.org/2008 :) You should join the http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy list repost this (both request and your work). Carl K _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071018/395f3f99/attachment-0001.htm From carl at personnelware.com Fri Oct 19 05:07:21 2007 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:07:21 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2008: Call for Talk & Tutorial Proposals Message-ID: <47181F69.40700@personnelware.com> Proposals for PyCon 2008 talks & tutorials are now being accepted. The deadline for proposals is November 16. PyCon 2008 will be held in Chicago, Illinois, USA, from March 13-20. http://us.pycon.org/2008/ Tutorial Day: Half-Day Tutorials ================================ Do you enjoy teaching classes or tutorials? Are you good at it? PyCon is looking for proposals for tutorials. The PyCon Tutorial Day will be March 13, 2008 (Thursday). There will be morning and afternoon tutorial sessions (3 hours each, plus a 30-minute break); presenters may request two sessions in order to make up a full day. Tutorials may be on any topic, but obviously should be instructional in nature. Full details and instructions here: http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/proposals/ Conference Days: Scheduled Talks ================================ Want to share your experience and expertise? PyCon is looking for proposals to fill the formal presentation tracks. The PyCon Conference Days will be March 14-16, 2008 (Friday-Sunday). Previous PyCon conferences have had a broad range of presentations, ranging from reports on academic and commercial projects to tutorials and case studies. We hope to continue that tradition this year. As long as the presentation is interesting and potentially useful to the Python community, it will be considered for inclusion in the program. We're especially interested in short tutorial presentations that will teach conference-goers something new and useful. Can you show attendees how to: use a module? explore a Python language feature? package an application? Full details and instructions here: http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/proposals/ Development Sprints =================== Four days of development sprints will follow the conference days, March 17-20 (Monday-Thursday). Start thinking about sprints you'd like to lead or join. We'll have an announcement about these soon! http://us.pycon.org/2008/sprints/ Lightning Talks & Open Space ============================ If you don't want to make a formal presentation, you can still bring your new project or idea to PyCon. There will be several sessions of Lightning Talks (five minute mini-talks, scheduled at the conference). http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/lightning There will also be several Open Space rooms for informal and spur-of-the-moment presentations. Open Space slots are allocated during PyCon on a first-come first-served basis. These slots can be used for presentations, round table discussions, hands-on tutorials, follow-up discussions after scheduled talks, or anything else you wish to present. http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/openspace/ Help Out! ========= PyCon 2008 planning is in full swing, but we can still use more help, *your* help! http://us.pycon.org/2008/helping/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list From tottinge at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 17:11:01 2007 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:11:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] vim and autocomplete In-Reply-To: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ^N, ^XN, ^FN On 10/18/07, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > Hello, > I finally figured out how to do autocomplete in vim and I wanted to > share it with you guys. > > Instructions are here: > > http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c > > Here is a screenshot: > http://lucasmanual.com/out/vim-python-autocomplete.jpg > > > I didn't know that 3 lines of code in vim and Ctrl+n was all it took > > Its great!!!! > Lucas > > -- > -- > TurboGears from start to finish: > http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071019/72c7a96e/attachment.htm From emperorcezar at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 17:45:31 2007 From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:45:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] vim and autocomplete In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220710190827p284d5e4emef345a26e5b46b24@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> <58a5f2220710190827p284d5e4emef345a26e5b46b24@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58a5f2220710190845qa9aea38l79d961a5d0a12546@mail.gmail.com> Ignore me. Stupid mistake. On 10/19/07, Adam Jenkins wrote: > > I notice that the wiki has the scripts in /usr/share > Would you know how to get tell it to put them in your home directory? > > I tried using > complete+=k~/vim-scripts/pydiction-0.5/pydiction > to no avail > > On 10/18/07, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I finally figured out how to do autocomplete in vim and I wanted to > > share it with you guys. > > > > Instructions are here: > > > > http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c > > > > Here is a screenshot: > > http://lucasmanual.com/out/vim-python-autocomplete.jpg > > > > > > I didn't know that 3 lines of code in vim and Ctrl+n was all it took > > > > Its great!!!! > > Lucas > > > > -- > > -- > > TurboGears from start to finish: > > http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > -- > --------------------------------------- > Adam Jenkins > emperorcezar at gmail.com > 312-399-5161 > --------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------- Adam Jenkins emperorcezar at gmail.com 312-399-5161 --------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071019/339e9609/attachment.htm From emperorcezar at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 17:27:17 2007 From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:27:17 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] vim and autocomplete In-Reply-To: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70710181744t21e3309dj100e20c1a238546f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58a5f2220710190827p284d5e4emef345a26e5b46b24@mail.gmail.com> I notice that the wiki has the scripts in /usr/share Would you know how to get tell it to put them in your home directory? I tried using complete+=k~/vim-scripts/pydiction-0.5/pydiction to no avail On 10/18/07, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > Hello, > I finally figured out how to do autocomplete in vim and I wanted to > share it with you guys. > > Instructions are here: > > http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c > > Here is a screenshot: > http://lucasmanual.com/out/vim-python-autocomplete.jpg > > > I didn't know that 3 lines of code in vim and Ctrl+n was all it took > > Its great!!!! > Lucas > > -- > -- > TurboGears from start to finish: > http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- --------------------------------------- Adam Jenkins emperorcezar at gmail.com 312-399-5161 --------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071019/f5b088b7/attachment.htm From zibble at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 18:21:09 2007 From: zibble at gmail.com (Scott Zibble) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all. I could definitely help organize some of the upcoming meetings if you guys need someone to step up to help out with some of the administrative duties. (I've been a lurker for most of my time on this group, because I moved to California for a year until this last summer. But I definitely intend on being more involved in the weeks and months ahead!) I can also offer up meeting space at 180 N. La Salle if that's helpful... On 10/18/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > On 10/18/07, bray at sent.com wrote: > > > > I think we need to start nominations for the first BDFSM, today. > > With an emphasis (in my opinion) on self-nominations. A willingness > to coordinate is probably more important than just about anything > else. > > If you (royal you, not just bray) are interested in doing this, we > (the people that have chiefly been organizational in nature) can help > you over the learning hump. No experience is necessary, just a > willingness to commit for a chunk of time. > > And we will work out this naming thing...somehow. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071024/33728a58/attachment.htm From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 18:33:33 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:33:33 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710240933p509bf2dbv6cdf99df3ba153b2@mail.gmail.com> I've known Scott for a while now. The space he's offering up is a place that we've met at in the past, and has always been good. Scott is a really organized guy, and doesn't mind taking stuff on. He also consistently does what he says he'll do. I second his self-nomination. Anyone else want to throw in? Chris On 10/24/07, Scott Zibble wrote: > Hi all. > > I could definitely help organize some of the upcoming meetings if you guys > need someone to step up to help out with some of the administrative duties. > > (I've been a lurker for most of my time on this group, because I moved to > California for a year until this last summer. But I definitely intend on > being more involved in the weeks and months ahead!) > > I can also offer up meeting space at 180 N. La Salle if that's helpful... > > > On 10/18/07, Chris McAvoy < chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 10/18/07, bray at sent.com wrote: > > > > > > I think we need to start nominations for the first BDFSM, today. > > > > With an emphasis (in my opinion) on self-nominations. A willingness > > to coordinate is probably more important than just about anything > > else. > > > > If you (royal you, not just bray) are interested in doing this, we > > (the people that have chiefly been organizational in nature) can help > > you over the learning hump. No experience is necessary, just a > > willingness to commit for a chunk of time. > > > > And we will work out this naming thing...somehow. > > > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From goodmansond at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 19:31:13 2007 From: goodmansond at gmail.com (DeanG) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:31:13 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Consider "Facilitator" as the title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitator From andrew at humanized.com Wed Oct 24 19:46:08 2007 From: andrew at humanized.com (Andrew Wilson) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:46:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Let's talk organization In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0710180938k571b34aej6f0601d4d82e1686@mail.gmail.com> <1192739966.8424.1216647315@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3096c19d0710181351r28dd517an38b7e2dec9a901f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -1 -1001 if I can, but -1 for sure. I will follow where someone leads, or lead for others to follow, but I will not be facilitated. -- Andrew On 10/24/07, DeanG wrote: > > Consider "Facilitator" as the title. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitator > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071024/33e7a930/attachment.htm From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Thu Oct 25 20:27:58 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:27:58 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Help on One Page Python Flyer In-Reply-To: <276266d0710181521s6ff0f03bs56802cf1f3b14468@mail.gmail.com> References: <864959.42496.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4717CD29.7020308@personnelware.com> <276266d0710181521s6ff0f03bs56802cf1f3b14468@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/18/07, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > Also, curly braces do mean something in Python( a = {} ) Further on this point, how about re-wording your point to this instead: "Python uses indentation for blocks of code so you don't have to worry about typing `}' or `end'" ...then perhaps summarize this excellent article: http://www.secnetix.de/~olli/Python/block_indentation.hawk I am constantly surprised to hear, and I quote, "I'd use python if it weren't for the significant whitespace thing." Shocked and awed, even. No, this is not just from gray-beard java programmers but also from peach-fuzz rubyists (they should know better!). k From szybalski at gmail.com Thu Oct 25 21:10:19 2007 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:10:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request Message-ID: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I was wondering if anybody would be willing to talk about "unit testing " in python. Maybe go through some examples. How to create one, how to maintain one, things to consider. I would be very interested to hear about it. Reportlab would be a nice topic too if anybody is familiar with it. Lucas -- -- Vim auto completion for python http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c TurboGears from start to finish: http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears From cstejerean at gmail.com Thu Oct 25 22:40:49 2007 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:40:49 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request In-Reply-To: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> I could give a quick overview of py.test - Cosmin On 10/25/07, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > Hello, > I was wondering if anybody would be willing to talk about "unit > testing " in python. Maybe go through some examples. How to create > one, how to maintain one, things to consider. I would be very > interested to hear about it. > > Reportlab would be a nice topic too if anybody is familiar with it. > > > Lucas > > > > > -- > -- > Vim auto completion for python > > http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c > TurboGears from start to finish: > http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071025/60280d36/attachment.htm From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 04:32:39 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:32:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago Message-ID: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> Hi Folks, Any interesting Python development going on in the Chicago area? Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071025/9ef1dc93/attachment.htm From mtobis at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 04:52:23 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:52:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 mt From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:21:04 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> I can't decipher this, so I'll assume that it is in response to some other message as opposed to my message :-) On 10/25/07, Michael Tobis wrote: > > +1 > > mt > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/db808f18/attachment.htm From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:21:43 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply show up at meetings? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/a9dc111c/attachment.htm From maney at two14.net Fri Oct 26 13:41:24 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:41:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:21:43AM -0500, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply show > up at meetings? No, you'll need to get the chipmunk suit from Chris for your first meeting. This is a much better time of year for it than during the summer. Some venues require a list of the names of those attending for building security, so in some cases a little advance notice is required. -- He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom he asketh; for he shall give them the occasion to please themselves in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. - Francis Bacon From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:57:47 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:57:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710260457k1ba22dcbuc2a8973c741ba34b@mail.gmail.com> Good job team, way to get the new guy interested in the group right off the bat. Kevin, the answer to your totally reasonable question is, "yes, there's plenty of interesting Python development going on in Chicago." Pycon is coming here in March, which means that Python loves Chicago more than any other city in North America for 2008. The group is informal, meetings are usually pretty well attended, and feature some great speakers. Chris On 10/26/07, Martin Maney wrote: > On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:21:43AM -0500, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply show > > up at meetings? > > No, you'll need to get the chipmunk suit from Chris for your first > meeting. This is a much better time of year for it than during the > summer. > > Some venues require a list of the names of those attending for > building security, so in some cases a little advance notice is > required. > > -- > He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but > especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom > he asketh; for he shall give them the occasion to please themselves > in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let > his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and > let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. - Francis Bacon > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 14:14:00 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:14:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710260457k1ba22dcbuc2a8973c741ba34b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> <3096c19d0710260457k1ba22dcbuc2a8973c741ba34b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260514vd7f91d8vbfc4c7816e20b7fa@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Chris. I found your group by reading a post at the end of an article about Google Chicago which alluded to the fact that Google sponsored some sort of meeting of the Chicago Python Users Group. I thought I'd check it out and see what you guys are all about. I happen to love reptiles and snakes are my favorite - especially the constricting variety (j/k). On 10/26/07, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > Good job team, way to get the new guy interested in the group right off > the bat. > > Kevin, the answer to your totally reasonable question is, "yes, > there's plenty of interesting Python development going on in Chicago." > Pycon is coming here in March, which means that Python loves Chicago > more than any other city in North America for 2008. > > The group is informal, meetings are usually pretty well attended, and > feature some great speakers. > > Chris > > On 10/26/07, Martin Maney wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:21:43AM -0500, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > > By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply > show > > > up at meetings? > > > > No, you'll need to get the chipmunk suit from Chris for your first > > meeting. This is a much better time of year for it than during the > > summer. > > > > Some venues require a list of the names of those attending for > > building security, so in some cases a little advance notice is > > required. > > > > -- > > He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but > > especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom > > he asketh; for he shall give them the occasion to please themselves > > in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let > > his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and > > let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. - Francis > Bacon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/ba4944a1/attachment.htm From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:51:01 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:51:01 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> You have no idea how exciting that is to me - I've always dreamed of being a chipmunk! On 10/26/07, Martin Maney wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:21:43AM -0500, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply > show > > up at meetings? > > No, you'll need to get the chipmunk suit from Chris for your first > meeting. This is a much better time of year for it than during the > summer. > > Some venues require a list of the names of those attending for > building security, so in some cases a little advance notice is > required. > > -- > He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but > especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom > he asketh; for he shall give them the occasion to please themselves > in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let > his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and > let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. - Francis Bacon > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/c8307cf8/attachment.htm From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 26 14:47:10 2007 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (Steven Githens) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:47:10 +0100 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4721E1CE.2020805@caret.cam.ac.uk> I think this means that there is indeed a lot of awesome python development in Chicago. :) I lot of open source projects tend to have formal or quasi-formal voting procedures that happen over their mailing lists (hence occasionally you'll see a whole string of responses that are just +1 or -1 or something). -s Kevin L. Stern wrote: > I can't decipher this, so I'll assume that it is in response to some > other message as opposed to my message :-) > > On 10/25/07, *Michael Tobis* < mtobis at gmail.com > > wrote: > > +1 > > mt > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 15:17:40 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:17:40 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <4721E1CE.2020805@caret.cam.ac.uk> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <4721E1CE.2020805@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260617s792e3513mf46f23e2dbc4f3f9@mail.gmail.com> Ah, thanks for the clarification! Kevin On 10/26/07, Steven Githens wrote: > > I think this means that there is indeed a lot of awesome python > development in Chicago. :) > > I lot of open source projects tend to have formal or quasi-formal voting > procedures that happen over their mailing lists (hence occasionally > you'll see a whole string of responses that are just +1 or -1 or > something). > > -s > > Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > I can't decipher this, so I'll assume that it is in response to some > > other message as opposed to my message :-) > > > > On 10/25/07, *Michael Tobis* < mtobis at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > mt > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/13d690ad/attachment-0001.htm From purplehayz at earthlink.net Fri Oct 26 15:20:50 2007 From: purplehayz at earthlink.net (Bob Hays) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:20:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Alvin! (couldn?t resist ? sorry) Have fun! - Bob On 10,26,07 6:51 AM, "Kevin L. Stern" wrote: > You have no idea how exciting that is to me - I've always dreamed of being a > chipmunk! > > On 10/26/07, Martin Maney < maney at two14.net > wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:21:43AM -0500, Kevin L. Stern wrote: >>> > By the way, is this group informal? If I want to 'join' can I simply show >>> > up at meetings? >> >> No, you'll need to get the chipmunk suit from Chris for your first >> meeting. This is a much better time of year for it than during the >> summer. >> >> Some venues require a list of the names of those attending for >> building security, so in some cases a little advance notice is >> required. >> >> -- >> He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but >> especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom >> he asketh; for he shall give them the occasion to please themselves >> in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let >> his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and >> let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. - Francis Bacon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -- Bob Hays (773) 794-2055 (H) (773) 266-HAYS (C) purplehayz at earthlink.net http://www.alephnaught.com "As long as opportunity means "change," and as long as change means "pain," we will continue to miss our chances." - Seth Godin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/706a5d87/attachment.htm From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 16:07:55 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 09:07:55 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> I'm doing some research in graph theory and I have a set of graphs (known as the AT&T set) that is in a seemingly proprietary format - I want to swap it into the graphml XML format. I hacked together a little Python script for this. Would you folks say that this is 'pythonic', or does this look newbie'ish? ____________________________________________________________________ import re, mmap, os class token: def __init__(self): self.type = None self.data = None class tokenizer: def __init__(self, inmap, out): self.inmap = inmap self.out = out def nextToken(self): line = inmap.readline() if re.search("^graph\s.*\s{$", line): ident = line[6:len(line)-3] result = token() result.type = 'graph' result.data = ident return result elif re.search("^\s*subgraph.*{$", line): parse = re.search("subgraph\s.*\s{$", line).group() ident = line[10:len(line)-3] result = token() result.type = 'subgraph' result.data = ident return result elif re.search("^\s*}$", line): result = token() result.type = 'endgroup' return result elif re.search("^\s*n\d+\s--\sn\d+;$", line): parse = re.search("n\d+\s--\sn\d+", line).group() split = parse.partition('--') first = re.search("\d+", split[0]).group() last = re.search("\d+", split[2]).group() result = token() result.type = 'edge' result.data = [first,last] return result return None def processToken(self, t): if not t: return if t.type == 'graph': self.out.write('\n' % t.data) elif t.type == 'subgraph': self.out.write('\n' % t.data) self.sg += 1 elif t.type == 'endgroup': self.out.write('\n') if self.sg > 0: self.sg -= 1 elif t.type == 'edge': self.out.write('\n' % (t.data[0], t.data[1])) def go(self): self.sg = 0 self.out.write(""" """) while self.inmap.tell() < self.inmap.size(): lex.processToken(lex.nextToken()) self.out.write("") try: infile = "ug.txt" insize = os.path.getsize(infile) fd = open(infile, "r+") inmap = mmap.mmap(fd.fileno(), insize, None, mmap.ACCESS_READ) outfile = "out.txt" out = open(outfile, "r+") lex = tokenizer(inmap, out) lex.go() except IOError: print "IO Error Occurred" finally: inmap.close() out.close() -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/c3a36cd5/attachment.htm From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:31:36 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:31:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > I'm doing some research in graph theory and I have a set of graphs (known as > the AT&T set) that is in a seemingly proprietary format - I want to swap it > into the graphml XML format. I hacked together a little Python script for > this. Would you folks say that this is 'pythonic', or does this look > newbie'ish? there is something in python that is somewhat wart-like and easy to miss in the docs (yet criticized often). Whenever you want to run some code in a module, say, if you want to treat that module like a command line script (like you are), you should really always put that code within this if statement: if __name__ == '__main__': # code goes here that you want to run from the command line why? There is no good reason for this so my first inclination is to answer like this: Just do it! For the non-conformists out there, here's really why. Python assigns the magical value '__main__' to .__name__ when it is the top-level script, or as the lib ref at http://docs.python.org/lib/module-main.html says : "This module represents the (otherwise anonymous) scope in which the interpreter's main program executes -- commands read either from standard input, from a script file, or from an interactive prompt. It is this environment in which the idiomatic ``conditional script'' stanza causes a script to run: " [see above] So, without that if statement your code will obviously still run but the code will also run *whenever* the module is imported. Might not be a big deal today, but tomorrow when you refactor your code or run anything that imports modules at will (pydoc, pudge, nosetests, the list goes on) then you run the dangerous risk of executing your main code at unexpected times. I will refrain from linking to the python list complaints about how unintuitive and obscure this is but rest assured it has been discussed many times with many alternatives offered, yet no resolution. K PS. are you new to the Chicago area or just new to Python or both? > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > import re, mmap, os > > class token: > def __init__(self): > self.type = None > self.data = None > > class tokenizer: > def __init__(self, inmap, out): > self.inmap = inmap > self.out = out > > def nextToken(self): > line = inmap.readline() > if re.search("^graph\s.*\s{$", line): > ident = line[6:len(line)-3] > result = token() > result.type = 'graph' > result.data = ident > return result > elif re.search("^\s*subgraph.*{$", line): > parse = re.search("subgraph\s.*\s{$", line).group() > ident = line[10:len(line)-3] > result = token() > result.type = 'subgraph' > result.data = ident > return result > elif re.search("^\s*}$", line): > result = token() > result.type = 'endgroup' > return result > elif re.search("^\s*n\d+\s--\sn\d+;$", line): > parse = re.search("n\d+\s--\sn\d+", line).group() > split = parse.partition('--') > first = re.search("\d+", split[0]).group() > last = re.search("\d+", split[2]).group() > result = token() > result.type = 'edge' > result.data = [first,last] > return result > return None > > def processToken(self, t): > if not t: > return > if t.type == 'graph': > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > elif t.type == 'subgraph': > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > self.sg += 1 > elif t.type == 'endgroup': > self.out.write ('\n') > if self.sg > 0: > self.sg -= 1 > elif t.type == 'edge': > self.out.write('\n' % > (t.data[0], t.data[1])) > > def go(self): > self.sg = 0 > self.out.write(""" > > """) > while self.inmap.tell() < self.inmap.size (): > lex.processToken(lex.nextToken()) > > self.out.write("") > > try: > infile = "ug.txt" > insize = os.path.getsize(infile) > fd = open(infile, "r+") > inmap = mmap.mmap(fd.fileno(), insize, None, mmap.ACCESS_READ) > outfile = "out.txt" > out = open(outfile, "r+") > lex = tokenizer(inmap, out) > lex.go() > except IOError: > print "IO Error Occurred" > finally: > inmap.close() > out.close() > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From mtobis at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:46:06 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:46:06 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" Message-ID: I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's extremely useful to put the __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define objects or functions. Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. ### def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" def main(): invoke_lots_of_stuff() if __name__ == "__main__": main() ### What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) mt From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Oct 26 17:52:26 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:52:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Michael Tobis wrote: > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > extremely useful to put the > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > objects or functions. > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > ### > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > def main(): > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > if __name__ == "__main__": > main() > ### > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and not main(). -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:54:50 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:54:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1704b7a20710260854o2dd7bb94yba71517fa8bc537f@mail.gmail.com> Kumar, Thank you for the reply. I'll keep the __main__ thing in mind. I had actually read about this at one point but skipped it in my code since I was hacking it together quickly and only using it in one place. It certainly is a good practice, though. To answer you last question, I am not new to Chicago and am somewhat new to python (but not new to software). Kevin On 10/26/07, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > I'm doing some research in graph theory and I have a set of graphs > (known as > > the AT&T set) that is in a seemingly proprietary format - I want to swap > it > > into the graphml XML format. I hacked together a little Python script > for > > this. Would you folks say that this is 'pythonic', or does this look > > newbie'ish? > > there is something in python that is somewhat wart-like and easy to > miss in the docs (yet criticized often). Whenever you want to run > some code in a module, say, if you want to treat that module like a > command line script (like you are), you should really always put that > code within this if statement: > > if __name__ == '__main__': > # code goes here that you want to run from the command line > > why? There is no good reason for this so my first inclination is to > answer like this: Just do it! > > For the non-conformists out there, here's really why. Python assigns > the magical value '__main__' to .__name__ when it is the > top-level script, or as the lib ref at > http://docs.python.org/lib/module-main.html says : > > "This module represents the (otherwise anonymous) scope in which the > interpreter's main program executes -- commands read either from > standard input, from a script file, or from an interactive prompt. It > is this environment in which the idiomatic ``conditional script'' > stanza causes a script to run: " [see above] > > So, without that if statement your code will obviously still run but > the code will also run *whenever* the module is imported. Might not > be a big deal today, but tomorrow when you refactor your code or run > anything that imports modules at will (pydoc, pudge, nosetests, the > list goes on) then you run the dangerous risk of executing your main > code at unexpected times. > > I will refrain from linking to the python list complaints about how > unintuitive and obscure this is but rest assured it has been discussed > many times with many alternatives offered, yet no resolution. > > K > > PS. are you new to the Chicago area or just new to Python or both? > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > import re, mmap, os > > > > class token: > > def __init__(self): > > self.type = None > > self.data = None > > > > class tokenizer: > > def __init__(self, inmap, out): > > self.inmap = inmap > > self.out = out > > > > def nextToken(self): > > line = inmap.readline() > > if re.search("^graph\s.*\s{$", line): > > ident = line[6:len(line)-3] > > result = token() > > result.type = 'graph' > > result.data = ident > > return result > > elif re.search("^\s*subgraph.*{$", line): > > parse = re.search("subgraph\s.*\s{$", > line).group() > > ident = line[10:len(line)-3] > > result = token() > > result.type = 'subgraph' > > result.data = ident > > return result > > elif re.search("^\s*}$", line): > > result = token() > > result.type = 'endgroup' > > return result > > elif re.search("^\s*n\d+\s--\sn\d+;$", line): > > parse = re.search("n\d+\s--\sn\d+", > line).group() > > split = parse.partition('--') > > first = re.search("\d+", split[0]).group() > > last = re.search("\d+", split[2]).group() > > result = token() > > result.type = 'edge' > > result.data = [first,last] > > return result > > return None > > > > def processToken(self, t): > > if not t: > > return > > if t.type == 'graph': > > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > > elif t.type == 'subgraph': > > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > > self.sg += 1 > > elif t.type == 'endgroup': > > self.out.write ('\n') > > if self.sg > 0: > > self.sg -= 1 > > elif t.type == 'edge': > > self.out.write(' target="%s"/>\n' % > > (t.data[0], t.data[1])) > > > > def go(self): > > self.sg = 0 > > self.out.write(""" > > > > """) > > while self.inmap.tell() < self.inmap.size (): > > lex.processToken(lex.nextToken()) > > > > self.out.write("") > > > > try: > > infile = "ug.txt" > > insize = os.path.getsize(infile) > > fd = open(infile, "r+") > > inmap = mmap.mmap(fd.fileno(), insize, None, mmap.ACCESS_READ) > > outfile = "out.txt" > > out = open(outfile, "r+") > > lex = tokenizer(inmap, out) > > lex.go() > > except IOError: > > print "IO Error Occurred" > > finally: > > inmap.close() > > out.close() > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/bc5a1065/attachment.htm From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:55:14 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> I'm guilty of not doing this often enough. Sometimes I treat Python like a *gasp* scripting language. I make no apologies. Chris On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Michael Tobis wrote: > > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > > extremely useful to put the > > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > > objects or functions. > > > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > > > ### > > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > > > def main(): > > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > > main() > > ### > > > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically > parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. > invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking > keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the > code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and > not main(). > > > -- > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mtobis at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:58:19 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:58:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ conditional... mt On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Michael Tobis wrote: > > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > > extremely useful to put the > > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > > objects or functions. > > > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > > > ### > > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > > > def main(): > > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > > main() > > ### > > > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically > parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. > invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking > keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the > code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and > not main(). > > > -- > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From andrew at humanized.com Fri Oct 26 17:59:17 2007 From: andrew at humanized.com (Andrew Wilson) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:59:17 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael: The goal of this bit of indirection is (I think) born of an impulse that runs strong in people who write lots and lots of production quality Python code: Never put code that actually does stuff in the global scope. I know in my own code, and ours here at work, we tend to obey that pretty strongly. In fact, almost every single global variable is initialized to None, and does not get assigned a value until some kind of "main()" function is run (in the case of scripts) or "init()" (in the case of modules). This simply dodges the question of when code gets executed, which is a bit strange with multiple imports of a single module lying around; code that initializes variables, etc. gets called when the "main()" or "init()" function is executed, so you can maintain clearly defined control over when that happens. I'm not saying that this indirection makes even the remotest bit of sense for scripts where there is code that will only be run if the module is executed as a script, but the instinct runs strong. Anything you cram into a function can theoretically be unit-tested (or integration-tested); code that executes in the global scope cannot be (without doing a dance of subprocess, by-the-way my current favorite Python module). -- Andrew On 10/26/07, Michael Tobis wrote: > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > extremely useful to put the > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > objects or functions. > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > ### > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > def main(): > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > if __name__ == "__main__": > main() > ### > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > mt > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/c382e8c9/attachment.htm From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 17:59:25 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:59:25 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request In-Reply-To: <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/25/07, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > I could give a quick overview of py.test > > - Cosmin > As a core developer on nose [1], I reckon I'd have to meet this friendly challenge and present an overview on nose, a similar discovery-based unit test runner for python :) (or ... steel cage fight?) Seriously though, 0.10 was just released and nose has stabilized quite a bit and grown much better plugin support, which is something that everyone should know about so they can get involved in our little plugin community! As for the basics of unit testing, I am hesitant to say I'd cover this comprehensively (unless there was an overwhelming majority asking for it) but I can certainly try to give a lightning overview, along with that vs. functional and integration testing. (In response to Carl's pycon email: I am half considering a more "advanced" talk on nose to compliment what may be an intro talk on it given by the author, Jason Pellerin (from Ann Arbour); we obviously need to work out who, what, where, why, etc.) Anyone else for a py.test / nose face-off? [1] http://somethingaboutorange.com/mrl/projects/nose/ > > On 10/25/07, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > Hello, > > I was wondering if anybody would be willing to talk about "unit > > testing " in python. Maybe go through some examples. How to create > > one, how to maintain one, things to consider. I would be very > > interested to hear about it. > > > > Reportlab would be a nice topic too if anybody is familiar with it. > > > > > > Lucas > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Vim auto completion for python > > > http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/FrontPage#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c > > TurboGears from start to finish: > > http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/TurboGears > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Oct 26 18:01:41 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:01:41 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <47220F65.90508@colorstudy.com> Michael Tobis wrote: > Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. > > Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than > just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ > conditional... Ah, wasn't sure what you meant. Well... you can do things like "return" in main(), that you can't do at the top level. Sometimes I find myself putting a try:except: in the __main__ block, around main(). I think it's a habit that you develop after having written lots of scripts, and refactoring them, and moving stuff out of __main__ enough times that you just do it automatically from the start. Also, sometimes it's actually handy to get at the command-line interface. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 18:06:30 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:06:30 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Michael Tobis wrote: > Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. > > Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than > just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ > conditional... my opinion is that it's easier to test, that's all. If you are trying to functionally test your main code, I don't think there is a way without creating a main function. For example : from mymodule import main def test_mymodule_command(): try: main(['--some-option=foo']) except SystemExit, e: assert e.code == 0 # now you can do the post-mortem K > > mt > > On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Michael Tobis wrote: > > > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > > > extremely useful to put the > > > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > > > objects or functions. > > > > > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > > > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > > > > > ### > > > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > > > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > > > > > def main(): > > > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > > > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > > > main() > > > ### > > > > > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > > > > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > > > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > > > Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically > > parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. > > invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking > > keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the > > code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and > > not main(). > > > > > > -- > > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From dave.niesman at ieee.org Fri Oct 26 18:02:36 2007 From: dave.niesman at ieee.org (Dave Niesman) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:02:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: How about these scenarios: You are developing a relative big main with lots of functions, and you want to test it function by function. You are developing a library module and it doesn't really have a command line function, this is a great time to run the tests. if __name__ == "__main__" runTheTests() On 10/26/07, Michael Tobis wrote: > > Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. > > Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than > just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ > conditional... > > mt > > On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Michael Tobis wrote: > > > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > > > extremely useful to put the > > > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > > > objects or functions. > > > > > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > > > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > > > > > ### > > > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > > > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > > > > > def main(): > > > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > > > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > > > main() > > > ### > > > > > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > > > > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > > > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > > > Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically > > parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. > > invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking > > keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the > > code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and > > not main(). > > > > > > -- > > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/56ef2942/attachment-0001.htm From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Oct 26 18:10:20 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:10:20 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request In-Reply-To: References: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4722116C.40702@colorstudy.com> Kumar McMillan wrote: > Anyone else for a py.test / nose face-off? I think that might be a little boring, since they aren't that different. Though I still can't get nose to properly do the thing with asserts it reinterprets the subexpressions. And now that I think about it, stdout capturing seems a little more quirky in nose. But that does not an interesting face-off make. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Oct 26 18:33:05 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:33:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <472216C1.1040603@colorstudy.com> Kumar McMillan wrote: > On 10/26/07, Michael Tobis wrote: >> Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. >> >> Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than >> just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ >> conditional... > > my opinion is that it's easier to test, that's all. If you are trying > to functionally test your main code, I don't think there is a way > without creating a main function. For example : > > from mymodule import main > def test_mymodule_command(): > try: > main(['--some-option=foo']) > except SystemExit, e: > assert e.code == 0 > # now you can do the post-mortem Or you can use ScriptTest: http://pythonpaste.org/scripttest/ : from scripttest import TestFileEnvironment def test_mymodule_command(): env = TestFileEnvironment('./test-output') res = env.run('myscript', '--some-option=foo') assert 'sucess' in res.stdout -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 18:57:40 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:57:40 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <472216C1.1040603@colorstudy.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <472216C1.1040603@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Or you can use ScriptTest: http://pythonpaste.org/scripttest/ : > > from scripttest import TestFileEnvironment > def test_mymodule_command(): > env = TestFileEnvironment('./test-output') > res = env.run('myscript', '--some-option=foo') > assert 'sucess' in res.stdout ah, nice! this might even defeat my argument for creating main since testing the script itself like above would reveal any micro bugs, like putting the wrong main() under your __name__ == '__main__' block. Not that I've *ever* done anything dumb like that, of course ;) From cstejerean at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 19:21:07 2007 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:21:07 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request In-Reply-To: <4722116C.40702@colorstudy.com> References: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> <4722116C.40702@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <276266d0710261021p75b4308ehca99d8eb5294d309@mail.gmail.com> Indeed. It could get more interesting if doctest and unittest were brought into the discussion however. - Cosmin On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Kumar McMillan wrote: > > Anyone else for a py.test / nose face-off? > > I think that might be a little boring, since they aren't that different. > Though I still can't get nose to properly do the thing with asserts > it reinterprets the subexpressions. And now that I think about it, > stdout capturing seems a little more quirky in nose. But that does not > an interesting face-off make. > > -- > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/01d79499/attachment.htm From tottinge at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 19:58:20 2007 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:58:20 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: I can unit-test a function more easily than I can unit test a script. I like everything to be unit-testable. tim On 10/26/07, Michael Tobis wrote: > > Hi, Ian! Thanks for trying. > > Unfortunately, I still don't actually see how main() is better than > just putting what you have in main() inline under the __name__ > conditional... > > mt > > On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Michael Tobis wrote: > > > I agree with everything Kumar says. It could be prettier, but it's > > > extremely useful to put the > > > __name__ == "__main__" around code in your file that doesn't define > > > objects or functions. > > > > > > Now that it's come up, though. what I never quite understood was the > > > extra level of indirection that many people including Guido favor. > > > > > > ### > > > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > > > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > > > > > def main(): > > > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > > > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > > > main() > > > ### > > > > > > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? > > > > > > Also, yeah, there's a little bit of a Python activity in Chicago... > > > (Miss y'all; looking forward to seeing you again in March.) > > > > Usually main() handles the command-line interface, which specifically > > parses a list of strings, and maybe calls sys.exit. > > invoke_lots_of_stuff would generally have a Python interface, taking > > keyword arguments and stuff that isn't a string. So when you import the > > code and use it from Python, you'd just use invoke_lots_of_stuff() and > > not main(). > > > > > > -- > > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/e89a80f0/attachment.htm From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 21:02:09 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:02:09 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] next meeting talk- topic request In-Reply-To: <4722116C.40702@colorstudy.com> References: <804e5c70710251210i290a66a6re224b99aca0d4367@mail.gmail.com> <276266d0710251340t51032716p424b773d5d977093@mail.gmail.com> <4722116C.40702@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Kumar McMillan wrote: > > Anyone else for a py.test / nose face-off? > > I think that might be a little boring, since they aren't that different. this is true. > Though I still can't get nose to properly do the thing with asserts > it reinterprets the subexpressions. And now that I think about it, > stdout capturing seems a little more quirky in nose. But that does not > an interesting face-off make. I don't think Jason has worked much on the introspection, but instead has put useful things in nose.tools for raising assertions with meaningful messages. I, for one, thought introspection was cool in py.test but it never did what I wanted either, heh. In nose I never use it since nose.tools works better with my brain, I guess. (eq_(), raises(), timed()). For any other specific assertion shortcut, I just bake it into the test framework I'm currently working in. nose actually grew out of our dislike of py.test's verboseness (dumping code to your term) and the bugginess of all the frame hacks it did ... but this was in 2005 so I'm sure it has improved since then! Granted, py.test was a really great tool when it came out and obviously inspired nose to be what it is. > > -- > Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From kevin.l.stern at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 21:09:18 2007 From: kevin.l.stern at gmail.com (Kevin L. Stern) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:09:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ThoughtWorks Message-ID: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> Hi Folks, Has anyone heard of a company called ThoughtWorks? Thanks, Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/77f4b316/attachment.htm From zibble at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 21:18:48 2007 From: zibble at gmail.com (Scott Zibble) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:18:48 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ThoughtWorks In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes? Yes we have? They have a fairly large presence in the Chicago user communities. They're very well established. On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Has anyone heard of a company called ThoughtWorks? > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/37ab251a/attachment-0001.htm From cstejerean at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 22:36:02 2007 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:36:02 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ThoughtWorks In-Reply-To: References: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <276266d0710261336t5676516fg4aea104c3dbc743c@mail.gmail.com> A lot of the Chicago Ruby User's group (Chirb) meetings are held at ThoughtWorks. They do a lot of Ruby work. On 10/26/07, Scott Zibble wrote: > > Yes? Yes we have? > > They have a fairly large presence in the Chicago user communities. > > They're very well established. > > > > On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Has anyone heard of a company called ThoughtWorks? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kevin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/515106d5/attachment.htm From skip at pobox.com Fri Oct 26 23:25:59 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:25:59 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Chris> I'm guilty of not doing this often enough. Sometimes I treat Chris> Python like a *gasp* scripting language. Me as well. When I have my thinking cap on I start with this: #!/usr/bin/env python """ Python Script Template usage %(prog)s [ -h ] ... -h - print this documentation and exit. """ import sys import getopt prog = sys.argv[0] def usage(msg=None): if msg is not None: print >> sys.stderr, msg print >> sys.stderr, __doc__.strip() % globals() def main(args): try: opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, "h", ["help"]) except getopt.GetoptError, msg: usage(msg) return 1 for opt, arg in opts: if opt in ("-h", "--help"): usage() return 0 return 0 if __name__ == "__main__": sys.exit(main(sys.argv[1:])) Replacing getopt with optparse if I get *really* formal. (I know optparse is "better" for some definition of that word, but my fingers know how to type getopt-using code with little or no involvement on the part of my brain.) Skip From dave.niesman at ieee.org Sat Oct 27 00:44:54 2007 From: dave.niesman at ieee.org (Dave Niesman) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:44:54 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: If we are showing our dirty laundry... import sys from optparse import OptionParser def ValidateArgs(argv): """ validate command line arguments """ success = True parser = OptionParser() parser.add_option("-e", "--echo", action = "store_true", dest="echo", help="echo back the command line arguments") options, args = parser.parse_args(argv) return success, options, args def main(argv=None): """ Testable main function Usage: main() - use arguments from sys.argv main(["main.py", 1, 2, 3 "34"]) - provide arguments for test """ if argv is None : argv = sys.argv[1:] success, options, args = ValidateArgs(argv) if success: if options.echo: i = 0 for theArg in args: i += 1 print "argv[" + str(i) + "]: " + theArg if __name__ == '__main__' : sys.exit(main()) On 10/26/07, skip at pobox.com wrote: > > > Me as well. When I have my thinking cap on I start with this: > ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/235ffa06/attachment.htm From mtobis at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 01:12:31 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:12:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Here's Guido's take on it: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4829 Dave's version helped me get the point of all this, thanks. Nitpicking, I think Skip's is imperfectly from memory since opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, "h", ["help"]) doesn't seem to match for opt, arg in opts: mt From ramadeus at rcn.com Sat Oct 27 01:15:31 2007 From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Mike Kramlich) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:15:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago References: Message-ID: <000b01c81826$1b37e150$5a098818@MIKEP43GHZ> I'm in the middle of building a game startup here in Chicago and Python is the language of choice. The launch game is pure Python: it's used not just for infrastructure scripting and modding but for the core engine itself. Assuming the business aspect of it gets off the ground, I will likely be looking for Python talent to help part-time with mods, addons, scripting, whatever. Mike Kramlich From pfein at pobox.com Sat Oct 27 02:13:02 2007 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:13:02 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Option Parsers, was: Re: __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200710262013.02409.pfein@pobox.com> On Friday October 26 2007 5:25:59 pm skip at pobox.com wrote: > Replacing getopt with optparse if I get *really* formal. (I know optparse > is "better" for some definition of that word, but my fingers know how to > type getopt-using code with little or no involvement on the part of my > brain.) And argparse is better than optparse: http://argparse.python-hosting.com/ Basically, it takes all of the common things you do with optparse, and sticks them in a library. Both in terms of option parsing & basic post-processing of the options afterwards (opening a file, say). Though my favorite feature is easy svn-style subcommands. --Pete -- Peter Fein || 773-575-0694 || pfein at pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/ || PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B irc: pfein at freenode.net || jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 02:58:22 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:58:22 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> I've really enjoyed reading this stuff today...has anyone gone so far as to script a new Python project startup script to create a default layout for a new project, script or module? That would be clever. Chris From rc.dillenburg at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 03:17:21 2007 From: rc.dillenburg at gmail.com (Russell Dillenburg) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:17:21 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ThoughtWorks In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <408c01040710261817k777fecf5vfe3e07561eeae387@mail.gmail.com> nope never heard of them... are they new? On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Has anyone heard of a company called ThoughtWorks? > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/193261ed/attachment.htm From robkapteyn at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 03:39:45 2007 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:39:45 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ThoughtWorks In-Reply-To: <408c01040710261817k777fecf5vfe3e07561eeae387@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710261209g22eae9j9f57d33d4e513092@mail.gmail.com> <408c01040710261817k777fecf5vfe3e07561eeae387@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thoughtworks has actually hosted ChiPy meeting at least twice in the past. Jason Huggins worked there while developing the "Selenium" open source testing framework, which is now getting world wide acceptance. (I think it also got Jason a job at Google ;-) -Rob On Oct 26, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Russell Dillenburg wrote: > nope never heard of them... are they new? > > On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Has anyone heard of a company called ThoughtWorks? > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071026/e7b5559a/attachment-0001.htm From tcp at mac.com Sat Oct 27 04:20:04 2007 From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:20:04 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <279990C2-8600-4E69-A2E5-462C345453A3@mac.com> On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:58 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote: > I've really enjoyed reading this stuff today... Ditto that... > has anyone gone so far > as to script a new Python project startup script to create a default > layout for a new project, script or module? That would be clever. Isn't that how Zjangogearlons got started? (and nice try at stoking a fire to get something done, Chris... beware folks -- this is how you end up hosting a conference or giving a talk or hacking a roomba or something... ;-) From maney at two14.net Sat Oct 27 05:09:11 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:09:11 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710260457k1ba22dcbuc2a8973c741ba34b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710251932q342cb5eeoedd829603d76f1e5@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421w5f6e4cddu74057724613eeeb3@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260421v5ccca9ecsab3e3b94bb861450@mail.gmail.com> <20071026114124.GA8631@furrr.two14.net> <3096c19d0710260457k1ba22dcbuc2a8973c741ba34b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071027030911.GA9324@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:57:47AM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Good job team, way to get the new guy interested in the group right > off the bat. No problem, Chr1s. But what's this about bats? I suppose we could get some for the November meeting, if there is a November meeting - it's a good time of year for bats. Worn as badges or flying on tethers, you think? -- Distributionis non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. (William of Occam, in the parallel universe where he was a Linux sysop) From maney at two14.net Sat Oct 27 05:15:44 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:15:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071027031544.GB9324@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 10:46:06AM -0500, Michael Tobis wrote: > def invoke_lots_of_stuff(): > print "I represent a lot of very clever objects and functions" > > def main(): > invoke_lots_of_stuff() > > if __name__ == "__main__": > main() > What's the purpose of the extra layer provided by the main() function? If it's just a single call as sketched above it does seem kind of pointless. But the general pattern would allow you to accrete a bunch of separate little widgets, each written in that fashion, into a single master application (think "svn ..." for example) with really minimal effort and maximum flexibility even when main is more than a wrapper around one function call. ...though in that case you should be passing any arguments to main as explicit parameters rather than fishing them out of sys.argv, so maybe there's something else going on? Hmmm... -- Self-pity can make one weep, as can onions. -- Fodor From maney at two14.net Sat Oct 27 05:21:04 2007 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:21:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071027032104.GC9324@furrr.two14.net> On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 10:55:14AM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > I'm guilty of not doing this often enough. Sometimes I treat Python > like a *gasp* scripting language. Sorry, Alvin, looks like Chris will be en rod?nt this time, in atonement for his scripting ways. You can be chipmunk du jour in December, I'm sure. -- If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names. -- Elbert Hubbard describes the internet, a century before it is invented From ianb at colorstudy.com Sat Oct 27 09:10:13 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:10:13 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4722E455.5080304@colorstudy.com> Chris McAvoy wrote: > I've really enjoyed reading this stuff today...has anyone gone so far > as to script a new Python project startup script to create a default > layout for a new project, script or module? That would be clever. Of course! easy_install CmdUtils paster create --template=cmdutils mycommand -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 09:39:23 2007 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <4722E455.5080304@colorstudy.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> <4722E455.5080304@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0710270039y3a522e2foa2d37d8c83faed2d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/27/07, Ian Bicking wrote: > Chris McAvoy wrote: > > I've really enjoyed reading this stuff today...has anyone gone so far > > as to script a new Python project startup script to create a default > > layout for a new project, script or module? That would be clever. > > Of course! > > easy_install CmdUtils > paster create --template=cmdutils mycommand > Did I get punk'd? """ easy_install CmdUtils Searching for CmdUtils Reading http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/CmdUtils/ Couldn't find index page for 'CmdUtils' (maybe misspelled?) Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while) Reading http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/ No local packages or download links found for CmdUtils error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse('CmdUtils') """ Ted Said: > (and nice try at stoking a fire to get something done, Chris... > beware folks -- this is how you end up hosting a conference or giving > a talk or hacking a roomba or something... ;-) I'm a thinker, not a doer. Chris From ianb at colorstudy.com Sat Oct 27 18:35:46 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:35:46 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0710270039y3a522e2foa2d37d8c83faed2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3096c19d0710261758n623deb30p714cca31a121eb33@mail.gmail.com> <4722E455.5080304@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710270039y3a522e2foa2d37d8c83faed2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <472368E2.7050502@colorstudy.com> Chris McAvoy wrote: > On 10/27/07, Ian Bicking wrote: >> Chris McAvoy wrote: >>> I've really enjoyed reading this stuff today...has anyone gone so far >>> as to script a new Python project startup script to create a default >>> layout for a new project, script or module? That would be clever. >> Of course! >> >> easy_install CmdUtils >> paster create --template=cmdutils mycommand >> > > Did I get punk'd? I think I never actually released CmdUtils, so: easy_install PasteScript http://svn.pythonpaste.org/CmdUtils/trunk paster create --template=cmdutils mycommand -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From skip at pobox.com Sat Oct 27 20:15:13 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:15:13 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Distributing doc files w/ distutils src pkg? Message-ID: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> I posted this to c.l.py this morning but have received no response. Thought I'd give it a try here... I have a simple setup.py file: #!/usr/bin/env python from distutils.core import setup setup(name='lockfile', author='Skip Montanaro', author_email='skip pobox.com', maintainer='Skip Montanaro', maintainer_email='skip pobox.com', url='http://www.webfast.com/~skip/python/', download_url='http://www.webfast.com/~skip/python/lockfile.tar.gz', version='0.1', py_modules=['lockfile'], data_files=[('doc', ['lockfile.rst'])], ) I've used the data_files arg to setup to note where the docs live. Alas, the sdist command doesn't include this in the tar file: % tar tfz dist/lockfile-0.1.tar.gz lockfile-0.1/ lockfile-0.1/lockfile.py lockfile-0.1/PKG-INFO lockfile-0.1/README lockfile-0.1/setup.py I'm a complete distutils novice. I can't for the life of me understand why the doc directory isn't included in the tar file. As far as I can tell distutils has no explicit provision at all for distributing documentation, which seems very weird. What am I missing? Thanks, Skip From tottinge at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 21:08:34 2007 From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:08:34 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: line[6:len(line)-3] is not pythonic. Line[6:-3] is slightly better. I didn't read the code well, just quick-scanned a very little of it. that was the first thing I saw. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071027/5c03e531/attachment.htm From skip at pobox.com Sat Oct 27 22:12:14 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] __name__ == "__main__" In-Reply-To: References: <47220D3A.5080203@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0710260855r7cfd0f86j6ce97ac59ee57aed@mail.gmail.com> <18210.23399.313515.421327@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <18211.39838.962558.935994@montanaro.dyndns.org> mt> Nitpicking, I think Skip's is imperfectly from memory since mt> opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, "h", ["help"]) mt> doesn't seem to match mt> for opt, arg in opts: Ah, but it does match. It's just what Guido had in his blog post (except he spelled "opt" and "arg" as "o" and "a"). getopt.getopt splits the words on the command line into two groups, the options and the arguments. You then step through the options which are of the form: [(o1, a1), (o2, a2), ...] I am old enough to know I can no longer rely on my memory for things like this. I actually have ~/src/script-tmpl.py which I use to start new scripts (when my memory doesn't fail me and I don't remember I have it or can't remember where I put it. That's what I pasted into my mail message. ;-) Skip From murman at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 02:55:18 2007 From: murman at gmail.com (Michael Urman) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:55:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I feel like hearing myself type, so I'm going to give this a thorough washing. I don't pretend to define pythonic, so others may well disagree with me. The one biggest thing I see missing is the use of iterators. They really are the best thing since the last best thing since sliced bread. The final major issue which I do not address is the use of raw text output for XML creation. This is always a bad idea since XML is a binary format. But I'm too lazy to look back up how generate XML with a library (xml.etree is generally a good choice) so I'll leave that alone. On 10/26/07, Kevin L. Stern wrote: > import re, mmap, os > > class token: > def __init__(self): > self.type = None > self.data = None The way you use class token later makes the instantiation of self.type and self.data unnecessary. I would suggest either adding type and data as parameters to the __init__ function (saves lines later), defining defaults in the class body and omitting __init__ (simplifies this class), or even omitting the body completely (simplifies it more). Class tokenizer seems a little multifaceted - does it tokenize, or does it process tokens? Since it actually is doing both, is it instead your main program class? I'll take it in pieces. > class tokenizer: > def __init__(self, inmap, out): > self.inmap = inmap > self.out = out > > def nextToken(self): > line = inmap.readline() > if re.search("^graph\s.*\s{$", line): > ident = line[6:len(line)-3] > result = token() > result.type = 'graph' > result.data = ident > return result > elif re.search("^\s*subgraph.*{$", line): > parse = re.search("subgraph\s.*\s{$", line).group() > ident = line[10:len(line)-3] > result = token() > result.type = 'subgraph' > result.data = ident > return result > elif re.search("^\s*}$", line): > result = token() > result.type = 'endgroup' > return result > elif re.search("^\s*n\d+\s--\sn\d+;$", line): > parse = re.search("n\d+\s--\sn\d+", line).group() > split = parse.partition('--') > first = re.search("\d+", split[0]).group() > last = re.search("\d+", split[2]).group() > result = token() > result.type = 'edge' > result.data = [first,last] > return result > return None I would suggest refactoring the nextToken function as a generator function. Assuming a token __init__ which takes type and data, it might look something like this (untested): def tokenize_att(source): """tokenize_att iterates over a source and returns an iterator over the resulting tokens""" for line in source: line = line.strip() if line.startswith('graph') and line.endswith('{'): yield token('graph', line.split()[1]) elif line.startswith('subgraph') and line.endswith('{'): yield token('subgraph', line.split()[1]) elif line == '}': yield token('endgroup', None) elif line.startswith('n'): parts = map(str.strip, line.split('--')) yield token('edge', (parts[0][1:], parts[1][1:])) The key points here are: * taking an iterable (probably a file) instead of looking it up on self * use of startswith and split instead of a regexp * lack of data verification; you might want to check length of split lines, for example. * edge token could be yield token('edge', tuple([p[1:] for p in parts])) if you're feeling punchy > def processToken(self, t): > if not t: > return > if t.type == 'graph': > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > elif t.type == 'subgraph': > self.out.write('\n' % t.data) > self.sg += 1 > elif t.type == 'endgroup': > self.out.write ('\n') > if self.sg > 0: > self.sg -= 1 > elif t.type == 'edge': > self.out.write('\n' % > (t.data[0], t.data[1])) Similarly processToken could become generator function tokens_to_xml: def tokens_to_xml(tokens): """iterate over tokens, and return an iterator providing lines of xml""" for token in tokens: if token.type in ('graph', 'subgraph'): yield '' % token.data elif token.type == 'endgroup': yield '' elif token.type == 'edge': yield '' % token.data Key points: * dropped used of self.sg since it didn't seem to do anything * correspondingly collapsed graph and subgraph; it's easy enough to undo this * use of a tuple instead of an array for edge let it be passed to % directly > > def go(self): > self.sg = 0 > self.out.write(""" > > """) > while self.inmap.tell() < self.inmap.size (): > lex.processToken(lex.nextToken()) > > self.out.write("") go feels a little weird, probably mostly because it's referring to lex which came out of nowhere. Assuming that's self, it's okay, but still odd. How about att_to_graphml: def att_to_graphml(infile, outfile): print >> outfile, '' print >> outfile, '' for xml in tokens_to_xml(tokenized(infile)): print >> outfile, xml print >> outfile, '' Key points: * refactoring input/output to parameters - now tokenizer's __init__ is useless; in fact the whole class feels like overkill. * contentious use of print>>out instead of out.write > try: > infile = "ug.txt" > insize = os.path.getsize(infile) > fd = open(infile, "r+") > inmap = mmap.mmap(fd.fileno(), insize, None, mmap.ACCESS_READ) > outfile = "out.txt" > out = open(outfile, "r+") > lex = tokenizer(inmap, out) > lex.go() > except IOError: > print "IO Error Occurred" > finally: > inmap.close() > out.close() This is way too overengineered for the common case. You might need stuff like mmap occasionally, but not normally. Let's make it easy: att_to_graphml(open("ug.txt"), open("out.txt", "w")) Or if you really need to worry about the files being left open a little longer: infile = open("ug.txt") outfile = open("out.txt", "w") try: att_to_graphml(infile, outfile) finally: infile.close() outfile.close() Key points: * simpler file handling - no longer need os or mmap (with no re above; no imports are necessary) * no tearing down things in the finally clause that might not have been set up That's my version of pythonic. When I originally read your code, the only things I noticed were the regexps, mmap, and the funky use of line[6:len(line)-3] Tim mentioned. So despite the complete difference between your code and my version of pythonic, it didn't feel newbie-ish at all. Michael, delurking just a little -- Michael Urman From skip at pobox.com Sun Oct 28 03:34:51 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:34:51 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Python Development in Chicago In-Reply-To: References: <1704b7a20710260451o7df24fa2pce18039dee47ae92@mail.gmail.com> <1704b7a20710260707m475440feyce4f0846250bdeaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18211.62795.932449.774156@montanaro.dyndns.org> Michael> I don't pretend to define pythonic... It's like pornography. It's difficult to define, but you know it when you see it. ;-) Skip From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 17:10:32 2007 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:10:32 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Distributing doc files w/ distutils src pkg? In-Reply-To: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 10/27/07, skip at pobox.com wrote: > from distutils.core import setup > setup(name='lockfile', > author='Skip Montanaro', > author_email='skip pobox.com', > maintainer='Skip Montanaro', > maintainer_email='skip pobox.com', > url='http://www.webfast.com/~skip/python/', > download_url='http://www.webfast.com/~skip/python/lockfile.tar.gz', > version='0.1', > py_modules=['lockfile'], > data_files=[('doc', ['lockfile.rst'])], > ) > > I've used the data_files arg to setup to note where the docs live. Alas, > the sdist command doesn't include this in the tar file: > > % tar tfz dist/lockfile-0.1.tar.gz > lockfile-0.1/ > lockfile-0.1/lockfile.py > lockfile-0.1/PKG-INFO > lockfile-0.1/README > lockfile-0.1/setup.py > > I'm a complete distutils novice. I can't for the life of me understand why > the doc directory isn't included in the tar file. As far as I can tell > distutils has no explicit provision at all for distributing documentation, > which seems very weird. What am I missing? I believe you need to add "include" statements to the MANIFEST.in *even though* you declared the data_files keyword. I forget why exactly, but I've banged my head on this a few times since "data_files" seems like it should do that for you automatically. http://docs.python.org/dist/manifest.html I have this hack in a setup file I recently had to get it working for: from setuptools import setup, find_packages manf = open(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__), "MANIFEST.in"), 'w') print "updating %s" % manf.name for sfile in find_package_data(absolute=True): manf.write("include %s\n" % sfile) manf.close() (without setuptools you can roll your own find_package_data() with some recursive globs) -Kumar From skip at pobox.com Mon Oct 29 17:41:55 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:41:55 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Distributing doc files w/ distutils src pkg? In-Reply-To: References: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <18214.3411.942188.275077@montanaro.dyndns.org> Kumar> I believe you need to add "include" statements to the MANIFEST.in Kumar> *even though* you declared the data_files keyword. Phillip Eby responded in the distutils-sig and pointed me in the right direction: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2007-October/008431.html I was completely unaware of the existence of MANIFEST.in files. Thanks, Skip From ianb at colorstudy.com Mon Oct 29 17:50:03 2007 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:50:03 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Distributing doc files w/ distutils src pkg? In-Reply-To: <18214.3411.942188.275077@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> <18214.3411.942188.275077@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <47260F3B.4000304@colorstudy.com> skip at pobox.com wrote: > Kumar> I believe you need to add "include" statements to the MANIFEST.in > Kumar> *even though* you declared the data_files keyword. > > Phillip Eby responded in the distutils-sig and pointed me in the right > direction: > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2007-October/008431.html > > I was completely unaware of the existence of MANIFEST.in files. BTW, if you are using svn and Setuptools you can just do include_package_data=True and it automatically figures out what files to include. I believe there are packages you can install for other VCS besides svn. -- Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org From skip at pobox.com Mon Oct 29 18:43:33 2007 From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:43:33 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Distributing doc files w/ distutils src pkg? In-Reply-To: <47260F3B.4000304@colorstudy.com> References: <18211.32817.99367.819517@montanaro.dyndns.org> <18214.3411.942188.275077@montanaro.dyndns.org> <47260F3B.4000304@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <18214.7109.712461.58705@montanaro.dyndns.org> Ian> BTW, if you are using svn and Setuptools you can just do Ian> include_package_data=True and it automatically figures out what Ian> files to include. I believe there are packages you can install for Ian> other VCS besides svn. Thanks, but this is such a small project (one .py file, one .rst file) that it seems more trouble than it's worth at this point. (I'd have to learn something about setuptools in addition to the little bit of distutils I've needed to learn). At this point it's packaging up okay, so I'll leave sleeping dogs lie. Skip From mtobis at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 18:09:41 2007 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:09:41 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Reminder - Science Cafe - TONIGHT "Flying Snakes" In-Reply-To: <47260D51.3000603@oddjob.uchicago.edu> References: <47260D51.3000603@oddjob.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: fwiw mt ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: cafe-admin at cfcpwork.uchicago.edu Date: Oct 29, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: [Cafe] Reminder - Science Cafe - TONIGHT "Flying Snakes" To: cafe at cfcpwork.uchicago.edu Folks, With Halloween around the corner join us for a cafe on flying snakes. Cafe Scientifique @ The MapRoom "How Flying Snakes Fly a.k.a. Functional Morphology & Biomechanics" http://www.flyingsnake.org/ Presenter: Jake Socha Time & Date: 7-9 PM Monday October 29, 2007 Location: The Map Room 1949 N. Hoyne cheers Randy PS if you know anyone who would like to join the cafe mailing list please point them to https://cfcpwork.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/cafe --------------------------------- PPS The Festival of Maps has begun Astronomy mapping events to mark on you calendars Cosmic Cartography Journey through the Universe Hosts: Rocky Kolb & Michael Turner Wednesday December 5, 2007 7:00-9:00 PM Rubaloff Auditorium ? Art Institute of Chicago (free) Join University of Chicago Cosmologists Rocky Kolb and Michael Turner for a cosmic magical mystery tour from Chicago to the edge of the visible universe. Visit observatories around the globe (virtually) and meet people who are mapping the Dark Matter that holds galaxies together and discovering the nature of the Dark Energy, which pulls space apart. Mapping the Heavens: The Universe Revealed by the Sloan Digital Sky Survey Josh Frieman, University of Chicago & Fermilab Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:30-5:30PM Adler Planetarium & Astronomy Museum (Free with museum admission). In this full-dome multimedia presentation, Dr. Frieman will describe and fly us through the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS), the most ambitious 3D map of the Universe ever constructed. This flight will let us explore this vast survey that is shaping our understanding of how the Universe has evolved from its earliest moments. -- ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ Randall H. Landsberg Director Education & Outreach -Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics (KICP) Director Public Outreach -Department of Astronomy & Astrophysics The University of Chicago 5640 S. Ellis Avenue Chicago, IL 60637 *KICP Education Programs http://kicp.uchicago.edu/education ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Cafe mailing list Cafe at cfcpwork.uchicago.edu https://cfcpwork.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/cafe From emperorcezar at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 21:14:55 2007 From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:14:55 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a developer Message-ID: <58a5f2220710311314v287bcc49wcc1127da24998548@mail.gmail.com> The Institute of Design of Chicago, IL is seeking a Python developer to implement a contact and networking management application in Django. Most of the time you should be able to work from home, we will required a few meetings involving design and planning. Our office is at Institute of Design 350 N. La Salle St. Chicago, IL 60610 If interested, please contact me at cezar at id.iit.edu Phone: 312.595.4949 -- --------------------------------------- Adam Jenkins cezar at id.iit.edu --------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20071031/d0ac3b35/attachment.htm