From bfhawkeye02 at msn.com  Thu Sep  6 00:31:08 2007
From: bfhawkeye02 at msn.com (Brian Fox)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:31:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
Message-ID: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>

Hi

Will someone please send me the address of the location for tomorrow's 
meeting.  I know it is at Google Chicago, but I was unable to attend the 
last meeting that was held there.



Brian J. Fox
516 S. Fairview
Park Ridge, IL 60068
(847) 518-8899 Home
(847) 271-1268 Cell



From bradyc at google.com  Thu Sep  6 00:41:02 2007
From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:41:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2dfd89af0709051541j7555b1f2wc84a04920012a1c9@mail.gmail.com>

Oh man, that's this week?  Crazy.  I'll have to make sure to get there this
time... or not.  Too.  Much.  Going.  On.

20 W. Kinzie St
9th Floor
Chicago, IL 60610

On 9/5/07, Brian Fox <bfhawkeye02 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Will someone please send me the address of the location for tomorrow's
> meeting.  I know it is at Google Chicago, but I was unable to attend the
> last meeting that was held there.
>
>
>
> Brian J. Fox
> 516 S. Fairview
> Park Ridge, IL 60068
> (847) 518-8899 Home
> (847) 271-1268 Cell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brady Cox
Google Chicago
Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic

Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message
by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without
written consent from Major League Baseball.
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From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk  Thu Sep  6 00:33:34 2007
From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (Steven Githens)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:33:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46DF2EBE.5090905@caret.cam.ac.uk>

I think the meeting is next week... at least I hope so because I haven't 
started putting together my talk yet!  :)

-steve

Brian Fox wrote:
> Hi
>
> Will someone please send me the address of the location for tomorrow's 
> meeting.  I know it is at Google Chicago, but I was unable to attend the 
> last meeting that was held there.
>
>
>
> Brian J. Fox
> 516 S. Fairview
> Park Ridge, IL 60068
> (847) 518-8899 Home
> (847) 271-1268 Cell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Sep  6 00:44:11 2007
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:44:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46DF313B.1050305@colorstudy.com>

ChiPy is on the second Thursday of every month -- September 13 this 
month.  So it is not tomorrow.

I'm not sure on directions to the downtown Google offices... if someone 
has those, please also update the wiki.

Brian Fox wrote:
> Will someone please send me the address of the location for tomorrow's 
> meeting.  I know it is at Google Chicago, but I was unable to attend the 
> last meeting that was held there.

From bradyc at google.com  Thu Sep  6 00:46:22 2007
From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:46:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <46DF313B.1050305@colorstudy.com>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
	<46DF313B.1050305@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <2dfd89af0709051546u59117002n8d80738c8e4cc3a9@mail.gmail.com>

Oh good!  That makes me feel much better.  :-D

On 9/5/07, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
> ChiPy is on the second Thursday of every month -- September 13 this
> month.  So it is not tomorrow.
>
> I'm not sure on directions to the downtown Google offices... if someone
> has those, please also update the wiki.
>
> Brian Fox wrote:
> > Will someone please send me the address of the location for tomorrow's
> > meeting.  I know it is at Google Chicago, but I was unable to attend the
> > last meeting that was held there.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brady Cox
Google Chicago
Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic

Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message
by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without
written consent from Major League Baseball.
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From tcp at mac.com  Thu Sep  6 01:02:53 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:02:53 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <46DF313B.1050305@colorstudy.com>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
	<46DF313B.1050305@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <1FC68A96-DD38-4177-9FD7-1AB59CBFC1FE@mac.com>


On Sep 5, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> ChiPy is on the second Thursday of every month -- September 13 this
> month.  So it is not tomorrow.
>
> I'm not sure on directions to the downtown Google offices... if  
> someone
> has those, please also update the wiki.

Done.  (gotta love wiki history)

-t



From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Sep  6 03:57:36 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:57:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0709051541j7555b1f2wc84a04920012a1c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
	<2dfd89af0709051541j7555b1f2wc84a04920012a1c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709051857kd4820a7q1ce079aa56eadc28@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/5/07, Brady Cox <bradyc at google.com> wrote:
> Oh man, that's this week?  Crazy.  I'll have to make sure to get there this
> time... or not.  Too.  Much.  Going.  On.
>
> 20 W. Kinzie St
>  9th Floor
>  Chicago, IL 60610

Actually, it's now in our fancy 8th floor "Tech Talk" space.  I've
updated the wiki.

-Fiz

From tcp at mac.com  Thu Sep  6 05:32:38 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:32:38 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <fccecd3a0709051857kd4820a7q1ce079aa56eadc28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
	<2dfd89af0709051541j7555b1f2wc84a04920012a1c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<fccecd3a0709051857kd4820a7q1ce079aa56eadc28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A364AE74-95BA-4C9E-82EB-22CAB7B9984B@mac.com>


On Sep 5, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Brian W. Fitzpatrick wrote:

>
> Actually, it's now in our fancy 8th floor "Tech Talk" space.  I've
> updated the wiki.
>
> -Fiz


And there I was, thinking I was all slick and whatever...

-- Greetings from Tacoma, btw.

-ted

From web at holovaty.com  Thu Sep  6 18:06:37 2007
From: web at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:06:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Django sprint in Chicago next Friday
Message-ID: <a2eb1c260709060906r35b22827ke17b3c1d927ffa4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

We're holding a sprint for the Django Web framework
(djangoproject.com) on Friday, Sept. 14. Although people all over the
globe are planning to participate via IRC/e-mail, we're having at
least one in-person contingent, right here in the great city of
Chicago.

I've been talking with Fitz at Google Chicago about hosting it, but he
needs to know a headcount before he can commit to it -- so if you're
in Chicago and would like to spend the whole day next Friday hacking
on Django stuff with some other folks, please let me know ASAP. (No
prior Django contributions are required, but you should be familiar
with *using* the framework, of course.)

More info about the sprint is here:

http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/Sprint14Sep

In other Chicago Python news:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5639329

Adrian

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 18:13:05 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:13:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Django sprint in Chicago next Friday
In-Reply-To: <a2eb1c260709060906r35b22827ke17b3c1d927ffa4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2eb1c260709060906r35b22827ke17b3c1d927ffa4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709060913h77baed51y50d72e56e7f5c3b9@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a tentative yes.

Chris

On 9/6/07, Adrian Holovaty <web at holovaty.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> We're holding a sprint for the Django Web framework
> (djangoproject.com) on Friday, Sept. 14. Although people all over the
> globe are planning to participate via IRC/e-mail, we're having at
> least one in-person contingent, right here in the great city of
> Chicago.
>
> I've been talking with Fitz at Google Chicago about hosting it, but he
> needs to know a headcount before he can commit to it -- so if you're
> in Chicago and would like to spend the whole day next Friday hacking
> on Django stuff with some other folks, please let me know ASAP. (No
> prior Django contributions are required, but you should be familiar
> with *using* the framework, of course.)
>
> More info about the sprint is here:
>
> http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/Sprint14Sep
>
> In other Chicago Python news:
>
> http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5639329
>
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 18:22:17 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:22:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>

This is a pretty off hand question, but the Django sprint made me
think of it...is there any precedent for writing off employee time
contributed to an open source project as a tax thing?

So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
they write that off?

Just wondering...

Chris

From tcp at mac.com  Thu Sep  6 18:30:40 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:30:40 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>


On Sep 6, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> This is a pretty off hand question, but the Django sprint made me
> think of it...is there any precedent for writing off employee time
> contributed to an open source project as a tax thing?
>
> So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
> they write that off?
>
> Just wondering...
>
> Chris

Hmm.. if the organization you're donating time to is a non-profit, I  
think it'd be an easy sell, but otherwise, I don't think so...but I'm  
nowhere near an expert.

From bradyc at google.com  Thu Sep  6 18:35:08 2007
From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:35:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I don't think Open Source Software is exactly the same thing as a
charitable organization... although I've been wrong before.  I guess it
depends on if the project managers have worked the system and set it up as
one or not.

I'm pretty sure it's not that easy though, otherwise I'd have set up my own
college fund years ago... damn... that's a great idea.  Why couldn't I have
come up with that seven years ago?

On 9/6/07, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2007, at 9:22 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
>
> > This is a pretty off hand question, but the Django sprint made me
> > think of it...is there any precedent for writing off employee time
> > contributed to an open source project as a tax thing?
> >
> > So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
> > they write that off?
> >
> > Just wondering...
> >
> > Chris
>
> Hmm.. if the organization you're donating time to is a non-profit, I
> think it'd be an easy sell, but otherwise, I don't think so...but I'm
> nowhere near an expert.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brady Cox
Google Chicago
Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic

Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message
by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without
written consent from Major League Baseball.
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From tcp at mac.com  Thu Sep  6 19:11:04 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:11:04 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>


On Sep 6, 2007, at 9:35 AM, Brady Cox wrote:

> Yeah, I don't think Open Source Software is exactly the same thing  
> as a charitable organization... although I've been wrong before.  I  
> guess it depends on if the project managers have worked the system  
> and set it up as one or not.

It's an interesting idea though -- setting up Open Source projects as  
non-profit corps and selling companies on contributing coding time as  
a tax deduction.  I have no clue how easy it is to setup a non- 
profit, but I gotta believe that if you had an open source minded  
attorney something could be done easily/cheaply and hence be done for  
more projects.  If that was made as a central selling point, I gotta  
believe that some companies would be more keen on giving person-time  
(not to mention capital support) to OS projects.


-t
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From ph at malaprop.org  Thu Sep  6 19:25:33 2007
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter A. Harkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:25:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61733.12.47.123.121.1189099533.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>

> So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
> they write that off?

They can write off the costs of your transportation or materials you spend
while doing the work, but not the cost of your time, no. In general you
have to donate specific tangible things for a deduction, not time or a
service.

I'd hazard a guess that this is so folks don't donate an hour to their
favorite non-profit at the low, low billable rate of $8,300,000 and thus
get a really sweet deduction come tax time. If you were the IRS, would you
want to have to determine a reasonable rate for every possible donated
service? Or worse, enforce it?


From ph at malaprop.org  Thu Sep  6 19:45:41 2007
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter A. Harkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:45:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
Message-ID: <40438.12.47.123.121.1189100741.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>

> So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
> they write that off?

They can write off the costs of your transportation or materials you spend
while doing the work, but not the cost of your time, no. In general you
have to donate specific tangible things for a deducation, not time or a
service.

I'd hazard a guess that this is so folks don't donate an hour to their
favorite non-profit at the low, low billable rate of $8,300,000 and thus
get a really sweet deduction come tax time. If you were the IRS, would you
want to have to determine a reasonable rate for every possible donated
service? Or worse, enforce it?


From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Sep  6 19:58:52 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:58:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Thursday Meeting
In-Reply-To: <A364AE74-95BA-4C9E-82EB-22CAB7B9984B@mac.com>
References: <BLU115-F7FE961927FB138082A301AFCB0@phx.gbl>
	<2dfd89af0709051541j7555b1f2wc84a04920012a1c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<fccecd3a0709051857kd4820a7q1ce079aa56eadc28@mail.gmail.com>
	<A364AE74-95BA-4C9E-82EB-22CAB7B9984B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709061058y1d445b83i91c4a9ba69f7e33d@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/5/07, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 5, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Brian W. Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> >
> > Actually, it's now in our fancy 8th floor "Tech Talk" space.  I've
> > updated the wiki.
> >
> > -Fiz
>
>
> And there I was, thinking I was all slick and whatever...

You most certainly are slick and whatever.

Whatever whatever is, you're it.

:)

-Fitz

From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Sep  6 20:04:09 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 13:04:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <61733.12.47.123.121.1189099533.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<61733.12.47.123.121.1189099533.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <46E04119.2040505@personnelware.com>

Peter A. Harkins wrote:
>> So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
>> they write that off?
> 
> They can write off the costs of your transportation or materials you spend
> while doing the work, but not the cost of your time, no. In general you
> have to donate specific tangible things for a deduction, not time or a
> service.
> 
> I'd hazard a guess that this is so folks don't donate an hour to their
> favorite non-profit at the low, low billable rate of $8,300,000 and thus
> get a really sweet deduction come tax time. If you were the IRS, would you
> want to have to determine a reasonable rate for every possible donated
> service? Or worse, enforce it?

I concur.

I have been supporting a payroll app for 15 years.  that doesn't make me an 
expert, but I have talked to about 100, and some of it rubs off.

One of the more memorable support calls: "an employee got hit by a train and 
died.  Should I still enter his time card?"  wow.

Carl K



From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 20:28:31 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:28:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/6/07, Ted Pollari <tcp at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's an interesting idea though -- setting up Open Source projects as
> non-profit corps and selling companies on contributing coding time as a tax
> deduction.  I have no clue how easy it is to setup a non-profit, but I gotta
> believe that if you had an open source minded attorney something could be
> done easily/cheaply and hence be done for more projects.  If that was made
> as a central selling point, I gotta believe that some companies would be
> more keen on giving person-time (not to mention capital support) to OS
> projects.
>

>From what I remember from 4H in my youth, setting up a non-profit is simple
and doesn't take a lawyer at all.

-t
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From ken at stox.org  Thu Sep  6 21:10:14 2007
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:10:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
	<58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:28 -0500, Adam Jenkins wrote:

> From what I remember from 4H in my youth, setting up a non-profit is
> simple and doesn't take a lawyer at all. 

Setting up a non-profit that the IRS will allow tax deductible donations
to and all the required book keeping and paperwork is a nightmare.

-Ken



From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 21:20:58 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:20:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
	<58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/6/07, Kenneth P. Stox <ken at stox.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:28 -0500, Adam Jenkins wrote:
>
> > From what I remember from 4H in my youth, setting up a non-profit is
> > simple and doesn't take a lawyer at all.
>
> Setting up a non-profit that the IRS will allow tax deductible donations
> to and all the required book keeping and paperwork is a nightmare.

-Ken


Something must have changed since 2000.


_______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Sep  6 21:45:23 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:45:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <61733.12.47.123.121.1189099533.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<61733.12.47.123.121.1189099533.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709061245y1bde544ag6f04178d70eba352@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/6/07, Peter A. Harkins <ph at malaprop.org> wrote:
> > So, if my company agrees to let me work on the sprint for a day, can
> > they write that off?
>
> They can write off the costs of your transportation or materials you spend
> while doing the work, but not the cost of your time, no. In general you
> have to donate specific tangible things for a deduction, not time or a
> service.
>
> I'd hazard a guess that this is so folks don't donate an hour to their
> favorite non-profit at the low, low billable rate of $8,300,000 and thus
> get a really sweet deduction come tax time. If you were the IRS, would you
> want to have to determine a reasonable rate for every possible donated
> service? Or worse, enforce it?

Peter is entirely correct.  I looked into this a few years ago when I
did some pro-bono work for a local university.

-Fitz, just a Google Zombie

From bray at sent.com  Thu Sep  6 21:50:23 2007
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:50:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
	<58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
	<58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C90318C1-A274-4C32-ADCF-37A5DD37B4B2@sent.com>


On Sep 6, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Adam Jenkins wrote:

> On 9/6/07, Kenneth P. Stox <ken at stox.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:28 -0500, Adam Jenkins wrote:
>
> > From what I remember from 4H in my youth, setting up a non-profit is
> > simple and doesn't take a lawyer at all.
>
> Setting up a non-profit that the IRS will allow tax deductible  
> donations
> to and all the required book keeping and paperwork is a nightmare.-Ken
>
> Something must have changed since 2000.


One thing I  think has changed is now a regular corp, S corp, ... can  
file a Form 6765 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f6765.pdf) if you  
want some Credit for Increasing Research Activities.

More info here <http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-isp/all-wage.pdf>.

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From tcp at mac.com  Thu Sep  6 21:57:56 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:57:56 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <40438.12.47.123.121.1189100741.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
References: <40438.12.47.123.121.1189100741.squirrel@webmail.malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <03FBEF47-091E-42FA-96F9-E05E8FBA8E2B@mac.com>


On Sep 6, 2007, at 10:45 AM, Peter A. Harkins wrote:

> They can write off the costs of your transportation or materials  
> you spend
> while doing the work, but not the cost of your time, no. In general  
> you
> have to donate specific tangible things for a deducation, not time  
> or a
> service.


Is code considered tangible?  I mean, in point of fact, since coders  
are paid to produce code and many companies contend that code you  
write on their time is their property, then it seems like the sponsor  
company could simply donate the code written at some standardized  
market value for the software... but I'm sure that all conflicts with  
reality, right?

-ted


From ken at stox.org  Thu Sep  6 22:15:18 2007
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:15:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>
	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>
	<58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
	<58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1189109718.8023.94.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 14:20 -0500, Adam Jenkins wrote:


> Something must have changed since 2000.

Please let me make this clear, there is a big difference between a
non-profit entity that does not pay taxes and non-profit to which
contributions are tax deductible. The first is easy, the second one is a
pain in the....

To get an idea, here is an IRS publication on the requirements:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf


From cbc at unc.edu  Thu Sep  6 22:28:21 2007
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:28:21 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Open Source Time Donation?
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709060922j777275cakc9e2c9f2423ba7d8@mail.gmail.com>	<A59E820A-BCE3-4CFF-8566-29EA55B49764@mac.com>	<2dfd89af0709060935p262ce450k5b0043ed50b3656c@mail.gmail.com>	<7C7AB2D5-232F-449C-92A7-1FC8D7ABFDE9@mac.com>	<58a5f2220709061128l456ea01brc698bff06d93d4f@mail.gmail.com>	<1189105814.8023.89.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
	<58a5f2220709061220m799773eerdb83449bbc334a27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46E062E5.5060600@unc.edu>

Adam Jenkins wrote:
> On 9/6/07, *Kenneth P. Stox* <ken at stox.org <mailto:ken at stox.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 13:28 -0500, Adam Jenkins wrote:
> 
>      > From what I remember from 4H in my youth, setting up a non-profit is
>      > simple and doesn't take a lawyer at all.
> 
>     Setting up a non-profit that the IRS will allow tax deductible
>     donations
>     to and all the required book keeping and paperwork is a nightmare.
> 
>     -Ken
> 
> 
> Something must have changed since 2000.

You are both correct.

Creating a non-profit is very easy and do-it-yourself. Just file the 
articles of incorporation form for a non-profit with your state and pay 
a small fee.

Creating a tax-exempt organization is very hard and requires filing 
federal IRS form 1023, usually several times, and waiting for months for 
an answer in between denials. Usually requires hiring professionals who 
know the inner workings of the IRS to write the form answers correctly.

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway
http://www.seacoos.org
office: 332 Chapman Hall   phone: (919) 962-4323
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599




From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Thu Sep  6 23:24:40 2007
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:24:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] about next week
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD475179ECDA527@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

Hi everybody,

you can now download (and run) the code I plan to talk about next week (Mac and Windows executables) from my web page. This is very much a beta but it runs ok as far I tested it. There is also a short tutorial.

http://web.mac.com/mdipierro/iWeb/Site/Code/Code.html

Massimo

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Sep  7 06:52:18 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:52:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Django sprint in Chicago next Friday
In-Reply-To: <a2eb1c260709060906r35b22827ke17b3c1d927ffa4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2eb1c260709060906r35b22827ke17b3c1d927ffa4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709062152m4245f3bgdf1bf0d9d14da9ab@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering what we could do to prepare for the sprint? Is there a
"hacking Django" primer that we could read?

On 9/6/07, Adrian Holovaty <web at holovaty.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> We're holding a sprint for the Django Web framework
> (djangoproject.com) on Friday, Sept. 14. Although people all over the
> globe are planning to participate via IRC/e-mail, we're having at
> least one in-person contingent, right here in the great city of
> Chicago.
>
> I've been talking with Fitz at Google Chicago about hosting it, but he
> needs to know a headcount before he can commit to it -- so if you're
> in Chicago and would like to spend the whole day next Friday hacking
> on Django stuff with some other folks, please let me know ASAP. (No
> prior Django contributions are required, but you should be familiar
> with *using* the framework, of course.)
>
> More info about the sprint is here:
>
> http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/Sprint14Sep
>
> In other Chicago Python news:
>
> http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5639329
>
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Fri Sep  7 22:30:17 2007
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:30:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Django developers
In-Reply-To: <46E13D7D.A636.002C.0@crain.com>
References: <46E13D7D.A636.002C.0@crain.com>
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD475179ECDA54E@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

I have already email my students about this but somebody here may be interested.

Massimo
________________________________
From: Matt Carmichael [mcarmichael at crain.com]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:01 PM
To: DiPierro, Massimo
Subject: Django developers

Hi Massimo-

We've got a couple projects coming up for Crain's Chicago Business. We've been working with a Django developer who is now joining Adrian Holovaty at EveryBlock so we'd like to stay in the Django framework and build off of what he's done for us. Do you know any good freelancers with Django experience --and ideally experience with interactive mapping apps like the Google API and Mapserver?

Thanks.

-Matt




Matt Carmichael
Research director
(312) 649-5219
mcarmichael at crain.com<mailto:mcarmichael at crain.com>


From mel at melchua.com  Tue Sep  4 05:43:55 2007
From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:43:55 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] [Fwd: Re: can OLPC Chicago mentor IMSA projects?]
Message-ID: <46DCD47B.2010407@melchua.com>

Forwarded as per Ian's request.

Would anyone be interested in mentoring local students on an 
OLPC-releated project (technical or nontechnical - anything from writing 
educational games in pygame to developing Spanish-language curricular 
materials on Guatemalan history) for this upcoming school year? My alma 
mater, IMSA (the Illinois Math and Science Academy, www.imsa.edu - the 
residential public magnet for the state) has students looking for 
projects to help with and it'd be great to have people to help teenagers 
make their first contributions to OLPC and the open source community.

There's no cost to you but time, and you'll have the satisfaction of 
knowing you changed a bright teenager's life (my own experience with a 
NASA project my senior year was far more enlightening than years of 
chemistry and physics lectures). The students work full-time on 
Wednesdays throughout the school year, unpaid, on projects of your 
design or theirs, through IMSA's "Scientific Inquiry and Research" 
mentorship program, presenting their work at a schoolwide exposition at 
the end. Mentorships can be either virtual (give them a phone call or an 
email check-in) or colocated (the school will provide transport for the 
students to/from your office for the day). It's a for-credit course for 
the students (high school upperclassmen), so there's plenty of 
accountability.

If you have project ideas for what they could work on, please post them 
here (even if you can't mentor). http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Chicago

If you're interested in mentoring, send me (before Monday, September 10):

1. Your name and a 3-sentence bio
2. Your contact information (if different from email)
3. The project(s) (or kinds of projects) you're interested in mentoring
4. The kind(s) of student(s) you'd be interested in working with - what 
level of experience/skills do you need, how much are you willing to have 
them learn on the job?
5. Location and physical proximity preference - Do you want a student 
colocated at your office on Wednesdays? Every other Wednesday? Visit 
Aurora once or twice during the school year (or have the student visit 
you) and otherwise check in via phone or email?

and I'll be in touch to see if we can match you with an interested 
student - you'll have the final word on whether or not you want to 
mentor a particular student.

If you have any questions, email back or feel free to call or text me at 
847.970.8484 any time. I'll also be online at my customary IRC office 
hours this Friday from 2-4pm Central. You can find me as mchua on 
freenode in the #olpc-content channel.

Thanks,

-Mel

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: can OLPC Chicago mentor IMSA projects?
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 15:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: ianb at colorstudy.com
To: Mel Chua <mel at melchua.com>
CC: Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
References: <46D88638.7060208 at melchua.com>

Hi Mel -- just getting back from a trip.

This sounds good -- and there's been people who have wondered about
mentoring local students before.  Can you send this to both olpc-chicago
and the chipy list?

> Ian,
>
> How's the OLPC Chicago group doing? Are there any upcoming gatherings I
> may be able to swing by for while I'm (briefly) in town? (Sept. 8-11,
> and then tentatively Sept. 19-21 and Sept. 28-30.)
>
> If there aren't any things planned, I may have a good excuse to call a
> gathering, or at least ping the mailing list.
>
> My high school, IMSA (www.imsa.edu - Illinois Math & Science Acad) gives
> upperclass students the day off from classes on Wednesdays to work on
> cool projects of their own choosing. I have an invitation to go over on
> Monday afternoon, Sept. 10, to talk to the students about OLPC, and I
> think a number of them will be interested in doing something
> OLPC-related for their independent project for the school year.
>
> My guess is that the two most popular things will be software
> development (probably games in python) and curriculum development (there
> is a group of students who develop lessons for elementary and middle
> school math and science summer camps) but we might see many different
> kinds of interests that want to contribute.
>
> Do you think the Chicago OLPC group might be able to support these kids,
> help them find (or serve as) project mentors they can correspond with at
> least weekly via email (and hopefully meet in person a few times during
> the year)? Generally speaking, they're a bright and inquisitive lot who
> already know how (textbook-wise) to code/write/teach/etc, but usually
> need some guidance getting into the development process and community
> for a "real project" that doesn't just get handed in as a paper to their
> teacher at the end of the week.
>
> This could be a good leadership/mentorship opportunity for OLPC Chicago
> to coordinate, if it could find local college students willing to mentor
> these high schoolers.

From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Mon Sep 10 18:53:10 2007
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:53:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] EWF
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD475179ECDA565@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

Some people had trouble downloading my stuff from the .mac site.
For today (and perhaps tomorrow) you can get it from here

http://140.192.34.158:8000/examples/default/index

or try it online. It is powered by itself with running examples.
The admin interface is blocked for obvious reasons.

Massimo


From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 19:40:13 2007
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:40:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python at Big Nerd Ranch
In-Reply-To: <18136.10325.173162.338999@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <B0DAAAF0-97C3-4084-8C4E-8F63549E9609@sent.com>
	<18134.62334.309087.7558@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<4DBF325A-C674-4063-AA4F-5A38F72F4184@sent.com>
	<18136.10325.173162.338999@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <6ad48f980709101040h376d7d54w722b1be28afc2fda@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/31/07, skip at pobox.com <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     Brian> You can teach them, Skip!
>
> Not likely, especially given this quote from Dave's message:
>
>     Dave> Basically, this is an entirely new course on Python that I put
>     Dave> together last winter--- working exclusively on it full time for
>     Dave> about 5-6 months.
>
> I don't have the time or charter to put in the kind of work necessary to
> teach a proper class on Python.  Not to mention which I have little
> experience teaching.
>
> Skip
>
Andrew Harrington at Loyola has taught and intro python class in the
past - http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh/python/hands-on/handsonHtml/handson.html
What's the current status of a repeat?

Phil

From catherine.devlin at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 20:59:51 2007
From: catherine.devlin at gmail.com (Catherine Devlin)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:59:51 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] local PyCon publicity
Message-ID: <6523e39a0709101159l2e5be346od0b9ee136fd39251@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, ChiPy folks!  As your semi-official Publicity Coordinator for
PyCon 2008. I'm looking for some local help.

We'd like to see to it that word gets out to a bunch of Chicago-area
channels, but we need to find them first.

- Technology reporters at Chicago newspaper, radio stations,
television stations, techie newspapers
- Area universities, colleges, community colleges, high schools
- Bookstores and other techie gathering places
- local user groups and clubs
- prominent local bloggers
- Other ideas along these lines?

Colorful native guides would be very helpful in identifying the places
to target; even more helpful would be pointing me to individuals
within those; even more helpful would be if you'd like to personally
take charge of contacting them.  But, whatever you can do, I'll
appreciate any your help.

Thanks!  Looking forward quite happily to PyCon Chicago
-- 
- Catherine
http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/

From tcp at mac.com  Tue Sep 11 01:37:24 2007
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:37:24 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: [PyCON-Organizers] Next PyCon Organizers' Meeting
	Tuesday, 11 September
References: <46E5CFAB.8090802@python.org>
Message-ID: <57895C50-4D11-40A0-802A-1C5AC7FB1E95@mac.com>

Hey ChiPy folks... just a reminder, here's a chance to get involved  
with PyCon 2008, held in Chicago!

-t



Begin forwarded message:

> From: David Goodger <goodger at python.org>
> Date: September 10, 2007 4:13:47 PM PDT
> To: pycon-organizers at python.org, python-announce at python.org, python- 
> list at python.org
> Subject: [PyCON-Organizers] Next PyCon Organizers' Meeting Tuesday,	 
> 11 September
>
> Next meeting: Tuesday, September 11, at 18:00 UTC (2PM Eastern, 1PM  
> Central,
> 12PM Mountain, 11AM Pacific).
>
> I'll post some agenda items, but feel free to add more:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2008/OrganizersMeetings
>
> Connection details:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2008/ 
> OrganizersMeetingsConnectionDetails
>
> PyCon is a community conference.  Please join in and help out!
>
> David Goodger
> PyCon 2008 Chair
>
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Sep 11 02:15:42 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:15:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
Message-ID: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>

Pete moved to NY but left me some books to give away. let me know what you want, 
I'll bring it to ChiPy Thursday.

http://pictures.personnelware.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=4502

Post to the list so others know what has been claimed.

Carl K

From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 11 03:42:05 2007
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:42:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] This page needs to be deleted
Message-ID: <18149.62061.877096.262791@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I subscribed to changes to all pages on the wiki and got a notification
about this new page:

    http://www.chipy.org/wow%2Bpower%2Bleveling

Can whoever manages the wiki either put me in the group that can delete
pages or at least delete this page?

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/

From bray at sent.com  Tue Sep 11 04:00:57 2007
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:00:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] This page needs to be deleted
In-Reply-To: <18149.62061.877096.262791@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <18149.62061.877096.262791@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <9D722370-C23E-458A-847E-CD239B88B712@sent.com>


On Sep 10, 2007, at 8:42 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

>
> Can whoever manages the wiki either put me in the group that can  
> delete
> pages or at least delete this page?

Yes to both. I am looking into it.


Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog

From nerkles at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 04:58:39 2007
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:58:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
In-Reply-To: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
References: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <D0CD9C88-9EB4-44D8-BD35-22D340EB1E51@gmail.com>

I'll take the Dave Eggers book...

--isaac

On Sep 10, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> Pete moved to NY but left me some books to give away. let me know  
> what you want,
> I'll bring it to ChiPy Thursday.
>
> http://pictures.personnelware.com/gallery2/main.php? 
> g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=4502
>
> Post to the list so others know what has been claimed.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From damien at grassart.com  Tue Sep 11 05:31:02 2007
From: damien at grassart.com (Damien Grassart)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:31:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
In-Reply-To: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
References: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <dfe3933e0709102031q5379e24dmac9d7caf2558f1d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/07, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>
> Pete moved to NY but left me some books to give away. let me know what you
> want,
> I'll bring it to ChiPy Thursday.


I could use the "Programming Languages, Concepts & Constructs" book.

Thanks!
-Damien
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 17:22:32 2007
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:22:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0709110822v275a5018i1771981a149ce760@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like "A History of the Ancient World" and Plato's "Five Dialogues"

Thanks,
Tim

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 18:07:36 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:07:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
In-Reply-To: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
References: <46E5DE2E.4080705@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709110907q7aac51b2u5fe7ab8212d24337@mail.gmail.com>

Can I get Asimov and the Rand books, and common Lisp.

kthxbye

On 9/10/07, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>
> Pete moved to NY but left me some books to give away. let me know what you
> want,
> I'll bring it to ChiPy Thursday.
>
>
> http://pictures.personnelware.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=4502
>
> Post to the list so others know what has been claimed.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From jono at humanized.com  Tue Sep 11 18:34:43 2007
From: jono at humanized.com (Jono DiCarlo)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:34:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Trouble getting an account on bugs.python.org
Message-ID: <ebe5c2140709110934h2bbba385wa7be14b5dacaf1e7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody,
I've been trying to create an account on Roundup
(http://bugs.python.org), the issue tracking system for python
development, so that I can submit this patch that I wrote for Python
3000.

I filled out the sign-up form on Saturday night, and I still haven't
gotten a confirmation email.  I checked through my spam folder and
everything.

So, in order to ask for help, I tried to join the python-dev mailing
list.  I filled out the form at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev  last night.  But
again... I still haven't gotten a confirmation email!

I remember hearing that python.org had been having problems getting
accounts set up for some of the participants in the Python sprint a
couple weeks ago who wanted to contribute patches.  I wonder if
they're still having technical difficulties?

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anybody on this list had had a
similar experience and if anybody could suggest anything I might try.
Thanks a lot!

--Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc.

From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Tue Sep 11 19:06:28 2007
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (rcriii at ramsdells.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:06:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Trouble getting an account on bugs.python.org
In-Reply-To: <ebe5c2140709110934h2bbba385wa7be14b5dacaf1e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ebe5c2140709110934h2bbba385wa7be14b5dacaf1e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6479.12.20.83.70.1189530388.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>

FWIW I am unable to send mail to the list from my work email, and have to
use my home account instead.  This came in handy a  while back when I
mistakenly sent a personal email to the list.

Robert

> Hello everybody,
> I've been trying to create an account on Roundup
> (http://bugs.python.org), the issue tracking system for python
> development, so that I can submit this patch that I wrote for Python
> 3000.
>
> I filled out the sign-up form on Saturday night, and I still haven't
> gotten a confirmation email.  I checked through my spam folder and
> everything.
>
> So, in order to ask for help, I tried to join the python-dev mailing
> list.  I filled out the form at
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev  last night.  But
> again... I still haven't gotten a confirmation email!
>
> I remember hearing that python.org had been having problems getting
> accounts set up for some of the participants in the Python sprint a
> couple weeks ago who wanted to contribute patches.  I wonder if
> they're still having technical difficulties?
>
> Anyway, I just wanted to know if anybody on this list had had a
> similar experience and if anybody could suggest anything I might try.
> Thanks a lot!
>
> --Jono DiCarlo, Humanized, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



From dbt at meat.net  Wed Sep 12 15:21:49 2007
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:21:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Trouble getting an account on bugs.python.org
In-Reply-To: <6479.12.20.83.70.1189530388.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
References: <ebe5c2140709110934h2bbba385wa7be14b5dacaf1e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6479.12.20.83.70.1189530388.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <20070912132149.GA1857@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Tue, Sep 11, 2007 at 11:06:28AM -0600, rcriii at ramsdells.net wrote:
> FWIW I am unable to send mail to the list from my work email, and have to
> use my home account instead.  This came in handy a  while back when I
> mistakenly sent a personal email to the list.

#include<std_replyto_rant.h>

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From matt_dorn at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 12 15:56:37 2007
From: matt_dorn at yahoo.com (Matt Dorn)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 06:56:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] pete's books
In-Reply-To: <mailman.57.1189591214.924.chicago@python.org>
Message-ID: <834819.78525.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Pete moved to NY but left me some books to give away. let me
> know what you
> want,
> I'll bring it to ChiPy Thursday.

I'll take Huxley's The Island and the copy of Foucault's
Pendulum.

See you tomorrow,

Matt



From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 19:33:47 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:33:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"

This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
food purchasing.

Chris

From dpratt at roytalman.com  Wed Sep 12 19:55:05 2007
From: dpratt at roytalman.com (Pratt, Doug)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:55:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP Chipy
Message-ID: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D6836069E0@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>

 

See you there.

IT Executive Recruiter
Roy Talman & Associates
150 S. Wacker Dr. Suite 1300
Chicago IL 60606
Phone: 312-425-1313 x 131
Fax: 312-425-0100
dpratt at roytalman.com
www.roytalman.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris McAvoy [mailto:chris.mcavoy at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:34 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?

Hi All,

If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please send me
an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"

This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for food
purchasing.

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Sep 12 20:02:14 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:02:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP Chipy
In-Reply-To: <694c06d60610050853w29bb76b8s8791a6bef13f08e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <694c06d60610050853w29bb76b8s8791a6bef13f08e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46E829A6.5090004@personnelware.com>

Brantley Harris wrote:
> Brantley Harris
> 
> On 10/5/06, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> RSVP to me with a subject line "RSVP Chipy" by Wednesday
>> morning...okeedokie?  I need to present a list to security by Weds.
>> Afternoon.
ack.

Carl K

From fitz at red-bean.com  Wed Sep 12 22:24:01 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>

Did an actual meeting invite and agenda go out?  I can't seem to find
it in my mail...

-Fitz

On 9/12/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
> send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"
>
> This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
> food purchasing.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 22:34:40 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:34:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python Meeting Thursday September 13th 7pm
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709121334u7d4ccdc3na3b730c43c947529@mail.gmail.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

Come join us for our best meeting ever!

Topics (in no particular order)
------
        * templatemaker Adrian Holovaty
        * Jython behind Spring/Java for RSF a web framework for sakai
-- Steven Githens
        * Easy to use Web Framework (a proof of concept)-- Massimo Di Pierro
        * Lightning Presentation on sv -- Dan Bravender

Location
--------

Google's Chicago office
20 West Kinzie Street, 9th Floor
Chicago, IL 60610

Location description:
"18 story glass and steel building on the Northeast corner of Dearborn
and Kinzie."
"Across the street from Harry Carey's"
"Upstairs from Keefer's restaurant"

* Map <http://tinyurl.com/ee8my>

Enter via the lobby on the South side of the building, between Keefer's
restaurant and Keefer's cafe.

 1. The closest "L" stop is Grand on the Red Line and Clark/Lake on the
 "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 8 minute walk
 from Google)
 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in
 the Citibank building) (about 20 minutes walk or take the Riverbus)

About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.

ChiPy website: <http://chipy.org>
ChiPy Mailing List: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
Python website: <http://python.org>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 22:47:12 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:47:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python Meeting Thursday September 13th 7pm
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709121347r67003291g653d1878e2d7bee6@mail.gmail.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

Come join us for our best meeting ever!

Topics (in no particular order)
------
        * templatemaker Adrian Holovaty
        * Jython behind Spring/Java for RSF a web framework for sakai
-- Steven Githens
        * Easy to use Web Framework (a proof of concept)-- Massimo Di Pierro
        * Lightning Presentation on sv -- Dan Bravender

Location
--------

Google's Chicago office
20 West Kinzie Street, 9th Floor
Chicago, IL 60610

Location description:
"18 story glass and steel building on the Northeast corner of Dearborn
and Kinzie."
"Across the street from Harry Carey's"
"Upstairs from Keefer's restaurant"

* Map <http://tinyurl.com/ee8my>

Enter via the lobby on the South side of the building, between Keefer's
restaurant and Keefer's cafe.

 1. The closest "L" stop is Grand on the Red Line and Clark/Lake on the
 "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 8 minute walk
 from Google)
 2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in
 the Citibank building) (about 20 minutes walk or take the Riverbus)

About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.

ChiPy website: <http://chipy.org>
ChiPy Mailing List: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
Python website: <http://python.org>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 22:48:30 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
	<fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709121348u35b59c16wc9993db83b4efeba@mail.gmail.com>

Just sent it out...

Which reminds me, if you (dear reader) are interested in being 'in
charge' of an upcoming Python meeting, including awesome stuff like
publicity and talk organization, sign up here:
http://chipy.org/publicity

Chris

On 9/12/07, Brian W. Fitzpatrick <fitz at red-bean.com> wrote:
> Did an actual meeting invite and agenda go out?  I can't seem to find
> it in my mail...
>
> -Fitz
>
> On 9/12/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
> > send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"
> >
> > This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
> > food purchasing.
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bradyc at google.com  Wed Sep 12 22:50:20 2007
From: bradyc at google.com (Brady Cox)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:50:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
	<fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2dfd89af0709121350p70bf6118v8409b3f62828f3f4@mail.gmail.com>

Doesn't look like I can make it.  I get off work at 7pm and it's at least an
hour drive, plus I'll likely work some OT.

On 9/12/07, Brian W. Fitzpatrick <fitz at red-bean.com> wrote:
>
> Did an actual meeting invite and agenda go out?  I can't seem to find
> it in my mail...
>
> -Fitz
>
> On 9/12/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
> > send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"
> >
> > This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
> > food purchasing.
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brady Cox
Google Chicago
Datacenter Artisan/Professional Owning Critic

Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message
by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited without
written consent from Major League Baseball.
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From fitz at red-bean.com  Wed Sep 12 23:25:15 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:25:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python Meeting Thursday September 13th 7pm
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709121334u7d4ccdc3na3b730c43c947529@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121334u7d4ccdc3na3b730c43c947529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709121425u4b31d06bl8be946bf450c0f5d@mail.gmail.com>

And for the love of all things warm and fuzzy, bring your
appetites--we're going to have a *ton* of pizza.

-Fitz

On 9/12/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chicago Python User Group
> =========================
>
> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>
> Topics (in no particular order)
> ------
>         * templatemaker Adrian Holovaty
>         * Jython behind Spring/Java for RSF a web framework for sakai
> -- Steven Githens
>         * Easy to use Web Framework (a proof of concept)-- Massimo Di Pierro
>         * Lightning Presentation on sv -- Dan Bravender
>
> Location
> --------
>
> Google's Chicago office
> 20 West Kinzie Street, 9th Floor
> Chicago, IL 60610
>
> Location description:
> "18 story glass and steel building on the Northeast corner of Dearborn
> and Kinzie."
> "Across the street from Harry Carey's"
> "Upstairs from Keefer's restaurant"
>
> * Map <http://tinyurl.com/ee8my>
>
> Enter via the lobby on the South side of the building, between Keefer's
> restaurant and Keefer's cafe.
>
>  1. The closest "L" stop is Grand on the Red Line and Clark/Lake on the
>  "Blue/Green/Orange/Brown/Purple Line". (All are about an 8 minute walk
>  from Google)
>  2. The closest Metra station is the Ogilvie Transportation Center (in
>  the Citibank building) (about 20 minutes walk or take the Riverbus)
>
> About ChiPy
> -----------
>
> ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
> Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
> Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
> efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.
>
> ChiPy website: <http://chipy.org>
> ChiPy Mailing List: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
> Python website: <http://python.org>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From bray at sent.com  Wed Sep 12 23:28:29 2007
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:28:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to Meeting Tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709121348u35b59c16wc9993db83b4efeba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
	<fccecd3a0709121324g5f3126ddm3180901e9384d46d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0709121348u35b59c16wc9993db83b4efeba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1189632509.26760.1210336315@webmail.messagingengine.com>


You rock, Chris!

-- rant --

Thanks to all the great people involved in the club, its really easy to
organize a meeting. All you have to do is ask around for venues,
presenters, and send out the invite. Sometimes it involves making sure
security is cool... and obvious stuff. 

Organizing is really rewarding and fun. Even if your not a Type A! If
things do not go well, just say, "ok, lets all just go grab a beer,
instead." No big deal. When things *DO* go well (like this month) you
will see some interesting presenters and a great venue lined up.

Although Organizing is super easy, but not as easy as just showing up.
So you lamer lurkers remember that! Get off your lazie arses and Show Up
for man-kind's sake. Especially if you are interested in learning,
dabble in already, or live and die for Python!
 
-- end rant --


Cheers,  Brian



From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 23:42:29 2007
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Robert Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:42:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP ChiPy
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F62B1A06-A87F-41C0-B533-A6DD7D38B23A@gmail.com>


On Sep 12, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
> send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"
>
> This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
> food purchasing.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 02:24:34 2007
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:24:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP Chipy
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <215489.77125.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yo.

- Feihong

Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote: Hi All,

If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"

This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
food purchasing.

Chris
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


       
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 
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URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20070912/52b904e1/attachment.htm 

From szybalski at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 04:02:41 2007
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:02:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP ChiPy
In-Reply-To: <F62B1A06-A87F-41C0-B533-A6DD7D38B23A@gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709121033y51cb6fe5ra38bc4c2803b5ace@mail.gmail.com>
	<F62B1A06-A87F-41C0-B533-A6DD7D38B23A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70709121902h27d41ab0o82b6821ade70cd7@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/12/07, Robert Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 12, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > If you're planning on attending the meeting tomorrow night, please
> > send me an email with the subject "RSVP Chipy"
> >
> > This isn't required for attendance, its only to get an estimate for
> > food purchasing.
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


-- 
-- 
Linux is not magic. It just works.
http://www.lucasmanual.com
Fax Server from start to finish:
http://www.lucasmanual.com/pdf/FaxServer.pdf

From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk  Thu Sep 13 05:45:32 2007
From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (Steven Githens)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:45:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Tomorrow's Projector Resolution
Message-ID: <46E8B25C.6050704@caret.cam.ac.uk>

Does anyone know what the standard resolution for tomorrow's projector is?

( Just trying to configure the external video on my Ubuntu Macbook )

Thx,
Steve

From fitz at red-bean.com  Thu Sep 13 06:30:40 2007
From: fitz at red-bean.com (Brian W. Fitzpatrick)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:30:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Tomorrow's Projector Resolution
In-Reply-To: <46E8B25C.6050704@caret.cam.ac.uk>
References: <46E8B25C.6050704@caret.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <fccecd3a0709122130qfb48cfek4f517deb99d5ec6b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not positive, but usually 1024 x 768 is a safe bet.

-Fitz

On 9/12/07, Steven Githens <sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Does anyone know what the standard resolution for tomorrow's projector is?
>
> ( Just trying to configure the external video on my Ubuntu Macbook )
>
> Thx,
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From maney at two14.net  Thu Sep 13 20:11:13 2007
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:11:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to the meeting?  No,
	but I'll hum a few bars with you.
Message-ID: <20070913181113.GA727@furrr.two14.net>


IRC can be so inspirational... or something.

<to the tune of the famous Lion song - ask Chris, I'm sure he knows it>

  In the Google / The friendly Google / The ChiPy meets tonight ...

Okay, who's gonna do the high part?

-- 
Threaten not the comic with your lawyers' bluster,
all toothless to suppress parody and satire;
for you will not amuse him, but you may inspire him.
  (me, inspired by http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/01/Apr/mcrhf.html)


From bray at sent.com  Thu Sep 13 20:45:28 2007
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:45:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Coming to the meeting?  No,
 but I'll hum a few bars   with you.
In-Reply-To: <20070913181113.GA727@furrr.two14.net>
References: <20070913181113.GA727@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <1189709128.6803.1210513801@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:11:13 -0500, "Martin Maney" <maney at two14.net>
said:
> 
> IRC can be so inspirational... or something.
> 
> <to the tune of the famous Lion song - ask Chris, I'm sure he knows it>
> 
>   In the Google / The friendly Google / The ChiPy meets tonight ...
> 
> Okay, who's gonna do the high part?
> 

umm, thanks Maney, that was very ... umm, well, inspirational?




From bfhawkeye02 at msn.com  Thu Sep 13 22:51:13 2007
From: bfhawkeye02 at msn.com (Brian Fox)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:51:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Newbie
Message-ID: <BLU115-F120698C5A37E54074790F1AFC30@phx.gbl>

Hi,

I am new to python and I am in the process of switching careers into the 
programming world and would like to get involved in working on an open 
source project using python.  If anyone has any projects that they are 
working on or could possible mentor me let me know.  I have an undergrad 
degree in CS(2002), but have no industry experience.  I am looking for some 
projects to work on that would help me learn more programming techniques and 
make me more employable.



Brian J. Fox
516 S. Fairview
Park Ridge, IL 60068
(847) 518-8899 Home
(847) 271-1268 Cell



From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 23:18:09 2007
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Robert Kapteyn)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:18:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Newbie
In-Reply-To: <BLU115-F120698C5A37E54074790F1AFC30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU115-F120698C5A37E54074790F1AFC30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F66D0995-B66F-482A-A726-34618D6528AD@gmail.com>

Welcome newbie !

I not sure if you noticed that there is a ChiPy meeting tonight !
I highly recommend going and seeing what everyone is working on:

See:
http://www.chipy.org

There is also a django sprint at the same place tomorrow.

I happen to live a few blocks from you in Park Ridge, and I am just  
getting ready to leave.
(stopping at MicroCenter on the way ;-)

Call me at (847)724-6269 if you want a ride ;-)

-Rob Kapteyn


On Sep 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Brian Fox wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am new to python and I am in the process of switching careers  
> into the
> programming world and would like to get involved in working on an open
> source project using python.  If anyone has any projects that they are
> working on or could possible mentor me let me know.  I have an  
> undergrad
> degree in CS(2002), but have no industry experience.  I am looking  
> for some
> projects to work on that would help me learn more programming  
> techniques and
> make me more employable.
>
>
>
> Brian J. Fox
> 516 S. Fairview
> Park Ridge, IL 60068
> (847) 518-8899 Home
> (847) 271-1268 Cell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From pohara at virtualmotors.com  Thu Sep 13 20:54:44 2007
From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:54:44 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] SEE YOU PYTHONS 2NITE
Message-ID: <2505f604cb1e417b94243b774ca24d98@maila24.webcontrolcenter.com>

OKIDOKI


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From pohara at virtualmotors.com  Fri Sep 14 06:06:07 2007
From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:06:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Newbie
References: <BLU115-F120698C5A37E54074790F1AFC30@phx.gbl>
	<F66D0995-B66F-482A-A726-34618D6528AD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c7f684$9481a9b0$7302a8c0@IBMUO5W0HB49M3>

robert
i do not live in Park Ridge
 i attended the ChiPy meeting tonight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Kapteyn 
  To: brianjfox at alumni.uiowa.edu ; The Chicago Python Users Group 
  Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [Chicago] Newbie


  Welcome newbie !


  I not sure if you noticed that there is a ChiPy meeting tonight !
  I highly recommend going and seeing what everyone is working on:


  See:
  http://www.chipy.org


  There is also a django sprint at the same place tomorrow.


  I happen to live a few blocks from you in Park Ridge, and I am just getting ready to leave.
  (stopping at MicroCenter on the way ;-)


  Call me at (847)724-6269 if you want a ride ;-)


  -Rob Kapteyn




  On Sep 13, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Brian Fox wrote:


    Hi,


    I am new to python and I am in the process of switching careers into the 
    programming world and would like to get involved in working on an open 
    source project using python.  If anyone has any projects that they are 
    working on or could possible mentor me let me know.  I have an undergrad 
    degree in CS(2002), but have no industry experience.  I am looking for some 
    projects to work on that would help me learn more programming techniques and 
    make me more employable.






    Brian J. Fox
    516 S. Fairview
    Park Ridge, IL 60068
    (847) 518-8899 Home
    (847) 271-1268 Cell




    _______________________________________________
    Chicago mailing list
    Chicago at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Chicago mailing list
  Chicago at python.org
  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From mtemkin at speakeasy.net  Fri Sep 14 06:20:42 2007
From: mtemkin at speakeasy.net (Marc Temkin)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:20:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ACM Chicago 9/19 Data Visualization Info
Message-ID: <003301c7f686$9d453ec0$6401a8c0@DREAMCATCHER232>

Our upcoming Sept.19th ACM Chicago meeting features Mike Pilat of Wolfram
Research.  He will cover Data Visualization and other aspects of Scientific
Computing featuring Mathematica 6.

Many applied areas such as physics, engineering, education, biology, music,
art, finance and law can make use of Mathematica.  Besides calculation,
Mathematica users can interactively explore concepts with no programming
required.  Hundreds of examples are available at
<blocked::http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/> demonstrations.wolfram.com.

By attending you will see what can be done with a highly sophisticated,
state of the art software program that has been in continuous use and
development for two decades.

Meeting Summary

This presentation will discuss the state of the art in technical and
scientific computing with applied examples illustrated using Mathematica's
powerful environment.

Topics will include numerical and symbolic computation, such as solving
differential equations and optimization problems, performing linear algebra
with sparse matrices and integrated data access and analysis. Additionally,
modern techniques for visualization, such as 2D and 3D graphics and stereo
lithography, and dynamic interactivity with computations and visualizations
will be demonstrated.

Finally, the presentation will conclude with a brief look at the future
directions of technical computation.

Michael Pilat is a senior software engineer at Wolfram Research, Inc.,
creators of Mathematica, and has been with the company almost five years. He
works on a variety of projects throughout the company, from audio and video
processing to data systems architecture to analyzing web statistics. In
addition to features for Mathematica, he has worked on the WolframTones and
Wolfram Demonstrations Project websites, developing the functionality to
process MIDI music and Flash video in Mathematica.

He holds a BS in Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and a MS in Computer Science from the
University of Chicago.

On the rare occasions when he's not at the keyboard, Michael enjoys playing
piano and cycling on the lake.

 

Location & Directions

The presentation will be in Room 1047 of the Engineering Research Facility,
842 W. Taylor Street, of the University of Illinois Chicago Campus.  The
building is near the corners of Halsted and Taylor and the entrance is on
Taylor St.  

The CTA Blue Line (to Forest Park / 54th & Cermak) has a stop at Halsted and
Congress.  From that station you can walk the five blocks or take the #8 CTA
Halsted St. bus to the corner of Halsted and Taylor.

UIC map:  <blocked::http://www.uic.edu/depts/oae/bldgs_pl/648.html>
http://www.uic.edu/depts/oae/bldgs_pl/648.html

The building doors are open until 7 PM.

Reservations & Fees

Contact Greg Neumarke at  <blocked::mailto:greg at neumarke.net>
greg at neumarke.net or call him at 773-907-3308   

$12 for non-members, $10 for members and $5 for students which includes
dinner.

For more information or changes see our website:
www.acm.org/chapters/chicago <blocked::http://www.acm.org/chapters/chicago> 

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From goodger at python.org  Tue Sep 18 19:53:21 2007
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:53:21 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] invitation to help with the PyCon web site (esp. the
	Chicago pages!)
Message-ID: <4335d2c40709181053u66b87437j3ace560eb5e88dbd@mail.gmail.com>

The PyCon 2008 site went live a couple of weeks ago:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/

The site (page contents and the NavBar/menu) can be edited through the
web.  The markup is reStructuredText.

I set up an initial menu structure for the site, but many pages lack
content.  The Chicago pages especially need attention:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/

There's even a page for ChiPy:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/chicago/chipy/

Please help out.  Go to the site and create an account, activate it,
and then send email to me or to Doug Napoleone (doug.napoleone (at)
gmail dot com), and we will give you access to edit the site.  Details
and links here:

    http://us.pycon.org/2008/helping/

Doug put together some documentation:

* NavBar docs:
  https://pycon.coderanger.net/wiki/PyCon08/NavBar

* "A ReST Wiki for PyCon2008" Screencast:
  http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=540040;fromSeriesID=54

Pages can be added easily.  Suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

David Goodger
PyCon 2008 Chair

From dpratt at roytalman.com  Mon Sep 24 20:12:55 2007
From: dpratt at roytalman.com (Pratt, Doug)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:12:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python Job posting
Message-ID: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D68366A337@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>

We have several positions with this client. I double dawg guarantee it is a
Python job with a company dedicated to Open Source front to back. Contact me
if you're interested.
 
Position Purpose:

The Software Engineer is responsible for developing and deploying web-based
applications and associated support programs as determined by internal and
external client requirements.

 

Primary Responsibilities:

*         Support new software development, site production and operations
as needed by the assigned business unit:

o        With project managers, gather requirements from internal customers
and end-users

o        Advise internal customers on the development resource constraints
and risks for requested functionality

o        Develop code using test-driven, object-oriented methodologies

o        Perform unit testing and integration tests

o        Participate in end-user acceptance testing

o        Incorporate end-user feedback into later iterations of the software

*         Document applications at the following levels:

o        System architecture

o        Source code

o        Administration and maintenance

o        End-user training and help

*         Participate in and occasionally lead weekly code reviews

*         Continually develop skills in object-oriented programming and
design

*         Continually develop skills with web client-side technologies

*         Continually develop skills as a member of an agile development
team

 

Job Skills and Requirements:

*	Expert in development of web-based applications using primarily
Python (Django framework), Ruby on Rails or PHP 5  in an open-source
development environment
*	Experience with source code control systems (Subversion preferred),
object-oriented design, test-driven development, continuous integration,
code reviews and refactoring, Agile development methods (Scrum), relational
database usage and web services
*	Thorough understanding of common web and e-commerce concepts and
technologies, such as: HTTP, SSL, Javascript and variants, HTML and other
client-side data formats (no graphic design skills required), XML and
associated technologies, content management concepts, public-key
cryptography, application and data security and privacy issues, basic TCP/IP
networking.
*	Excellent written and verbal communication skills
*	Ability to work well both within a team environment and
independently
*	Highly self motivated
*	Comfortable working within a fast-paced, dynamic environment
*	Ability to prioritize and perform multiple tasks in time critical
situations 
*	Required to maintain a professional, respectful, friendly
relationship with Leapfrog coworkers, clients and suppliers
*	  Required to adhere to Leapfrog policies and procedures, Leapfrog
confidences and contract requirements

Education and/or Experience:

*	Bachelor's degree  and/or 5 years experience relating to web-based
software development
*	Minimum of 5 years experience developing, testing, deploying and
maintaining interactive web applications in open source environments, as
well as command-line batch processing scripts in Python, Ruby, Perl or PHP
scripting languages
*	Minimum of 5 years experience with any SQL-based RDBMS (PostgreSQL
preferred) in the form of writing efficient SQL queries and executing them
via programming language interfaces 
*	Experience working with Agile development methodologies,
particularly Scrum teamwork and User Story development and estimation, a
very big plus

Physical Demands: 

*	Physical demands required of this position may include extensive
computer and telephone usage.  The position may also require extended
periods of sitting.   

Work Environment: Works in a professional office environment.
 
Doug Pratt
 
IT Executive Recruiter
Roy Talman & Associates
150 S. Wacker Dr. Suite 1300
Chicago IL 60606
Phone: 312-425-1313 x 131
Fax: 312-425-0100
dpratt at roytalman.com <mailto:dpratt at roytalman.com> 
www.roytalman.com
 
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 21:01:24 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:01:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python Job posting
In-Reply-To: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D68366A337@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>
References: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D68366A337@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709241201m43c0c2edheccb800f0c2346d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/24/07, Pratt, Doug <dpratt at roytalman.com> wrote:
>
>  We have several positions with this client. I double dawg guarantee it is
> a Python job with a company dedicated to Open Source front to back. Contact
> me if you're interested.
>
>
> *Position Purpose:*
>
> The Software Engineer is responsible for developing and deploying
> web-based applications and associated support programs as determined by
> internal and external client requirements.
>
>
>
> *Primary Responsibilities:*
>
> ?         Support new software development, site production and operations
> as needed by the assigned business unit:
>
> o        With project managers, gather requirements from internal
> customers and end-users
>
> o        Advise internal customers on the development resource constraints
> and risks for requested functionality
>
> o        Develop code using test-driven, object-oriented methodologies
>
> o        Perform unit testing and integration tests
>
> o        Participate in end-user acceptance testing
>
> o        Incorporate end-user feedback into later iterations of the
> software
>
> ?         Document applications at the following levels:
>
> o        System architecture
>
> o        Source code
>
> o        Administration and maintenance
>
> o        End-user training and help
>
> ?         Participate in and occasionally lead weekly code reviews
>
> ?         Continually develop skills in object-oriented programming and
> design
>
> ?         Continually develop skills with web client-side technologies
>
> ?         Continually develop skills as a member of an agile development
> team
>
>
>
> *Job Skills and Requirements:*
>
>    - Expert in development of web-based applications using primarily
>    Python (Django framework), Ruby on Rails or PHP 5  in an open-source
>    development environment
>    - Experience with source code control systems (Subversion
>    preferred), object-oriented design, test-driven development, continuous
>    integration, code reviews and refactoring, Agile development methods
>    (Scrum), relational database usage and web services
>    - Thorough understanding of common web and e-commerce concepts and
>    technologies, such as: HTTP, SSL, Javascript and variants, HTML and other
>    client-side data formats (no graphic design skills required), XML and
>    associated technologies, content management concepts, public-key
>    cryptography, application and data security and privacy issues, basic TCP/IP
>    networking.
>    - Excellent written and verbal communication skills
>    - Ability to work well both within a team environment and
>    independently
>    - Highly self motivated
>    - Comfortable working within a fast-paced, dynamic environment
>    - Ability to prioritize and perform multiple tasks in time critical
>    situations
>    - Required to maintain a professional, respectful, friendly
>    relationship with Leapfrog coworkers, clients and suppliers
>    -   Required to adhere to Leapfrog policies and procedures, Leapfrog
>    confidences and contract requirements
>
>  *Education and/or Experience:*
>
>    - Bachelor's degree  and/or 5 years experience relating to web-based
>    software development
>    - Minimum of 5 years experience developing, testing, deploying and
>    maintaining interactive web applications in open source environments, as
>    well as command-line batch processing scripts in Python, Ruby, Perl or PHP
>    scripting languages
>    - Minimum of 5 years experience with any SQL-based RDBMS (PostgreSQL
>    preferred) in the form of writing efficient SQL queries and executing them
>    via programming language interfaces
>    - Experience working with Agile development methodologies,
>    particularly Scrum teamwork and User Story development and estimation, a
>    very big plus
>
> *Physical Demands: *
>
>    - Physical demands required of this position may include extensive
>    computer and telephone usage.  The position may also require
>    extended periods of sitting.
>
>
Holy crap, how long of a day are we talking here?

*Work Environment: *Works in a professional office environment.
>
> Doug Pratt
>
> IT Executive Recruiter
> Roy Talman & Associates
> 150 S. Wacker Dr. Suite 1300
> Chicago IL 60606
> Phone: 312-425-1313 x 131
> Fax: 312-425-0100
> dpratt at roytalman.com
> www.roytalman.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From purplehayz at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 24 21:39:58 2007
From: purplehayz at earthlink.net (Bob Hays)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:39:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python Job posting
In-Reply-To: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D68366A337@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>
Message-ID: <C31D7CBE.2760D%purplehayz@earthlink.net>

I think the extended periods of sitting is funny too.

If it were five years ago I?d have grabbed this ? you shouldn?t have trouble
filling the slot.

Have fun! - Bob


On 9,24,07 1:12 PM, "Pratt, Doug" <dpratt at roytalman.com> wrote:

> We have several positions with this client. I double dawg guarantee it is a
> Python job with a company dedicated to Open Source front to back. Contact me
> if you're interested.
>  
> Position Purpose:
> The Software Engineer is responsible for developing and deploying web-based
> applications and associated support programs as determined by internal and
> external client requirements.
>  
> Primary Responsibilities:
> ?         Support new software development, site production and operations as
> needed by the assigned business unit:
> o        With project managers, gather requirements from internal customers
> and end-users
> o        Advise internal customers on the development resource constraints and
> risks for requested functionality
> o        Develop code using test-driven, object-oriented methodologies
> o        Perform unit testing and integration tests
> o        Participate in end-user acceptance testing
> o        Incorporate end-user feedback into later iterations of the software
> ?         Document applications at the following levels:
> o        System architecture
> o        Source code
> o        Administration and maintenance
> o        End-user training and help
> ?         Participate in and occasionally lead weekly code reviews
> ?         Continually develop skills in object-oriented programming and design
> ?         Continually develop skills with web client-side technologies
> ?         Continually develop skills as a member of an agile development team
>  
> Job Skills and Requirements:
> * Expert in development of web-based applications using  primarily Python
> (Django framework), Ruby on Rails or PHP 5  in an open-source development
> environment 
> * Experience with source code control systems (Subversion  preferred),
> object-oriented design, test-driven development, continuous  integration, code
> reviews and refactoring, Agile development methods (Scrum),  relational
> database usage and web services
> * Thorough understanding of common web and e-commerce  concepts and
> technologies, such as: HTTP, SSL, Javascript and variants, HTML  and other
> client-side data formats (no graphic design skills required), XML  and
> associated technologies, content management concepts, public-key
> cryptography, application and data security and privacy issues, basic TCP/IP
> networking. 
> * Excellent written and verbal communication  skills
> * Ability to work well both within a team environment and  independently
> * Highly self motivated
> * Comfortable working within a fast-paced, dynamic  environment
> * Ability to prioritize and perform multiple tasks in  time critical
> situations 
> * Required to maintain a professional, respectful,  friendly relationship with
> Leapfrog coworkers, clients and  suppliers
> *   Required to adhere to Leapfrog policies and procedures,  Leapfrog
> confidences and contract requirements
> Education and/or Experience:
> * Bachelor?s degree   and/or 5 years experience relating to web-based software
> development 
> * Minimum of 5 years experience developing, testing,  deploying and
> maintaining interactive web applications in open source  environments, as well
> as command-line batch processing scripts in Python,  Ruby, Perl or PHP
> scripting languages
> * Minimum of 5 years experience with any SQL-based RDBMS  (PostgreSQL
> preferred) in the form of writing efficient SQL queries and  executing them
> via programming language interfaces
> * Experience working with Agile development  methodologies, particularly Scrum
> teamwork and User Story development and  estimation, a very big plus
> Physical Demands:
> * Physical demands required of this position may include  extensive computer
> and telephone usage.   The position may also require extended periods of
> sitting.   
> Work Environment: Works in a professional office environment.
>  
> Doug Pratt
>  
> IT Executive Recruiter
> Roy Talman & Associates
> 150 S. Wacker Dr. Suite 1300
> Chicago IL 60606
> Phone: 312-425-1313 x 131
> Fax: 312-425-0100
> dpratt at roytalman.com
> www.roytalman.com
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


-- 
Bob Hays
(773) 794-2055 (H)
(773) 266-HAYS (C)
purplehayz at earthlink.net
http://www.alephnaught.com

"Once you've outsourced something to some big IT company, you can write it
off as a source of competitive advantage."
-- Gary Hamel 


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From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Sep 25 05:22:25 2007
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:22:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] mod_rewrite and turbogears
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70709242017wa77abf3ma00276b059cdafdb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70709241643m70cfbc74pf7115540657adf7@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.9999.0709241751490.27039@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>
	<804e5c70709242017wa77abf3ma00276b059cdafdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70709242022g7f38c6cfmed0fb2170b381dc5@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello,
 I am trying to redirect url to my turbogears app.

 I have the app working on port 8081

 I have added this code to my httpd.conf but it doesn't work

 RewriteEngine On
 RewriteRule ^/users/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/users/$1 [P]

 Modrewrite is enabled.
 start-users.py prod.cfg is running properly.

 Why is http://lcoalhost/users/ not working?

Where do I put the code for mod rewrite. I don't want to put it in
.htaccess so where does it go into:
httpd.conf?
apache.conf
sites-available? enabled?
does it go into <directory><location><vitual host>????

Any ideas?

Lucas

From dbt at meat.net  Tue Sep 25 05:53:11 2007
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:53:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] mod_rewrite and turbogears
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70709242022g7f38c6cfmed0fb2170b381dc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70709241643m70cfbc74pf7115540657adf7@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.9999.0709241751490.27039@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>
	<804e5c70709242017wa77abf3ma00276b059cdafdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70709242022g7f38c6cfmed0fb2170b381dc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070925035311.GG14841@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 10:22:25PM -0500, Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
>  Hello,
>  I am trying to redirect url to my turbogears app.
> 
>  I have the app working on port 8081
> 
>  I have added this code to my httpd.conf but it doesn't work
> 
>  RewriteEngine On
>  RewriteRule ^/users/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/users/$1 [P]
> 
>  Modrewrite is enabled.
>  start-users.py prod.cfg is running properly.
> 
>  Why is http://lcoalhost/users/ not working?
> 
> Where do I put the code for mod rewrite. I don't want to put it in
> .htaccess so where does it go into:
> httpd.conf?
> apache.conf
> sites-available? enabled?
> does it go into <directory><location><vitual host>????

I'd suggest vhost and then checking your error_log for details.  More
of an apache question than a python one tho.

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From szybalski at gmail.com  Tue Sep 25 06:50:22 2007
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:50:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] mod_rewrite and turbogears
In-Reply-To: <20070925035311.GG14841@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
References: <804e5c70709241643m70cfbc74pf7115540657adf7@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.9999.0709241751490.27039@dell.linuxdev.us.dell.com>
	<804e5c70709242017wa77abf3ma00276b059cdafdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70709242022g7f38c6cfmed0fb2170b381dc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070925035311.GG14841@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <804e5c70709242150t12fc75d7g9bf7b2a6cca4ca6c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/24/07, David Terrell <dbt at meat.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 10:22:25PM -0500, Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> >  Hello,
> >  I am trying to redirect url to my turbogears app.
> >
> >  I have the app working on port 8081
> >
> >  I have added this code to my httpd.conf but it doesn't work
> >
> >  RewriteEngine On
> >  RewriteRule ^/users/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8081/users/$1 [P]
> >
> >  Modrewrite is enabled.
> >  start-users.py prod.cfg is running properly.
> >
> >  Why is http://lcoalhost/users/ not working?
> >
> > Where do I put the code for mod rewrite. I don't want to put it in
> > .htaccess so where does it go into:
> > httpd.conf?
> > apache.conf
> > sites-available? enabled?
> > does it go into <directory><location><vitual host>????
>
> I'd suggest vhost and then checking your error_log for details.
I've added these lines to vhost.
It seems as turbogears needs mod_proxy enabled as well...

Now I am getting.
[Mon Sep 24 23:47:33 2007] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] client denied by
server configuration: proxy:http://127.0.0.1:8081/users/

From pfein at pobox.com  Tue Sep 25 14:19:30 2007
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] mod_rewrite and turbogears
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70709242150t12fc75d7g9bf7b2a6cca4ca6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70709241643m70cfbc74pf7115540657adf7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070925035311.GG14841@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
	<804e5c70709242150t12fc75d7g9bf7b2a6cca4ca6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200709250819.30742.pfein@pobox.com>

On Tuesday September 25 2007 12:50 am, Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> I've added these lines to vhost.
> It seems as turbogears needs mod_proxy enabled as well...
>
> Now I am getting.
> [Mon Sep 24 23:47:33 2007] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] client denied by
> server configuration: proxy:http://127.0.0.1:8081/users/

Well duh.  You're asking apache to forward content from another server.  
That's a proxy.  mod_rewrite can slice & dice the request six ways to Sunday, 
but it's not gonna magically start being mod_proxy.

And as David said, these are questions more appropriate for an Apache list 
than a Python one.

-- 
Peter Fein   ||   773-575-0694   ||   pfein at pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~pfein/   ||   PGP: 0xCCF6AE6B
irc: pfein at freenode.net   ||   jabber: peter.fein at gmail.com

From doug.napoleone at gmail.com  Tue Sep 25 07:24:08 2007
From: doug.napoleone at gmail.com (Douglas Napoleone)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:24:08 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Thank you!
Message-ID: <f08f4fbb0709242224l235b86fdx37d9521c30528403@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has come forward to help
out with the PyCon website and the software. The site currently has
over 35 pages with information, and over 140 changes. There is still
more data to be added, but the bulk of the site is fleshed out. There
is still much work on the software side as well.

There will be another organizers meeting today at 1pm CST, 2pm EST on
the #pycon irc channel at freenode.net. Hope to see you there.

    -Doug Napoleone

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 19:51:33 2007
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:51:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python Job posting
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220709241201m43c0c2edheccb800f0c2346d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FBE61B6C5FE02547BBA6A1B324F2D68366A337@portalserver2k6.headhunter.local>
	<58a5f2220709241201m43c0c2edheccb800f0c2346d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0709261051i6ce16067y4f3bd0da3904c81b@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/24/07, Adam Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Physical Demands:
> >
> > Physical demands required of this position may include extensive computer
> and telephone usage.  The position may also require extended periods of
> sitting.
>
> Holy crap, how long of a day are we talking here?

That's just legal verbiage translating to : "you go to work and sit at
a computer to write code.  you get up for coffee and snacks, meetings,
occasional game of Carcasonne, lunch, etc, then go back to your desk
and type code."

As opposed to :
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?job_did=J8H3716PV7JXWZWBY53&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=df28a33068564930b6bc0618045c21f0-244129229-JJ-5&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_tractor_driver_job_ph_

Physical Demands:
*Sitting for extended periods of time
*Bending
*Consistently lift 50lbs during delivery routes unassisted, and up to
150lbs assisted.


PS.  feel free to email me off the list for a developer's perspective
of the job but send all resumes to Doug.  We do most things in python
and contribute to a few open source projects, like nose, django,
fixture.  We even use paste and pylons to spice things up.  woo.

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 22:11:38 2007
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:11:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
(anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
good Python web developer in Chicago.

*Specifically*

*) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?

*) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?

*) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?

*) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
[the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
support the app once you've left?

Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome

Chris

PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.

From purplehayz at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 26 23:34:28 2007
From: purplehayz at earthlink.net (Bob Hays)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:34:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3203A94.277C2%purplehayz@earthlink.net>

Interesting....  Way back when we were using Python at LaSalle Bank, my boss
was very concerned about finding Python talent.  I gave him a dare - I can
take a good perl programmer with some OO experience and have them doing
credible, production-ready Python work in three days.  He took the dare, and
we created a Python programmer in three days, and went on to use Python and
Jython (JPython back then) on two major projects.

I think the Django bit is more daring - understanding web development is
different than "old-style" scripting; I'm not sure how translatable the
concepts are among the common tools.

Anyway, I still think its easier to take a good programmer with some
scripting and OO skills and turn them into Python programmers than to just
go looking for experienced folks (except for the first member of the team -
its always a good idea to have one specialist with connections and
experience to turn to when things don't work right).

Don't know that I answered your questions, but I get this message gets some
responses.... :-)

Thanks and have fun! - Bob


On 9,26,07 3:11 PM, "Chris McAvoy" <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
> (anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
> good Python web developer in Chicago.
> 
> *Specifically*
> 
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?
> 
> *) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?
> 
> *) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?
> 
> *) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?
> 
> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
> 
> Chris
> 
> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

-- 
Bob Hays
(773) 794-2055 (H)
(773) 266-HAYS (C)
purplehayz at earthlink.net
http://www.alephnaught.com

"The evil consists in the deed, not in the mere potential for the deed."
-- Lance Morrow, Evil: An Investigation 



From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Sep 27 00:35:14 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:35:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46FADEA2.6040004@personnelware.com>

Chris McAvoy wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
> (anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
> good Python web developer in Chicago.
> 
> *Specifically*
> 
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?
> 

easy.  just call me.

> *) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?

yes.  they are cheap and easy.

> 
> *) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?
> 

those tramps are a dime a dozen, and worth every nickel.

> *) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?
> 

Lets examine what it takes for someone new to maintain a Django based website.

Like most frameworks, Django is like a higher level language than what it is 
written in: Python.  The nice thing about both of them it is the balance of 
power, ease of use and readability.

When working with any framework, the biggest problem is becoming familiar with 
how to work with it.  for Django, do the 4 part tutorial, should take you about 
2 hours, and you are there.  Then it is just a matter of what needs to be 
maintained.

The models are totally human readable - maintaining them doesn't get much easier.

The regex used in urls.py is somewhat perl-esk, but it is pretty readable and 
self explanatory, not mind bending logic stuff.

The views are a mix of Python and Django calls.  both readable, fairly self 
explanatory, but also might require some Python and Django knowledge in order to 
modify.

The Django template system is pure Django. except for the calls back into Python 
code, but I don't consider that part of  The Django template system.  regardless 
of what you call what, the template system can do allot with some pretty simple 
stuff, and the Python code that gets called has a pretty simple foot print.

And the html/css is just that - same html as any other web site.

Now consider the random set of maintenance tasks, and how likely they are to 
fall into the various parts.  changes to the data model are easy.  changes to 
the html are easy.  changes to the business logic - depends on the change, 
simple adjustments are probably easy to recognize what needs to be done. 
complex changes are going to require a good understanding of the business 
requirements as well as the Python language.  understanding Python will be the 
easy part.  if you are changing urls.py, that's a bit more than maintenance.

What will it take for someone to come in and tweak?  Like all things, it 
depends.   It depends on how well thought out the original design is and how 
well it was implemented.  anyone can make a huge mess in any environment.  It 
does makes sense to try to make things smooth regardless of how messy they 
become, and a good start is to start with a 'simple' system.  Using Django, you 
can get a lot of site with a pretty simple setup.

and when you are done waxing your floors, you can use it as a desert topping too.

> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
> 

The problem is comparing my answers to someone well versed in some other 
technology.  They are going to say things too, but no one has any hard data that 
can be used to compare apples to apples.

If it is really important, I would suggest spending $10k on someone who has done 
enough work on using many frameworks to write up a comparison.   That would be 
cool.  and would probably only be valid for a year, then the apples would all 
have rotted.


> Chris
> 
> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.

oh, now you tell me.  I feel so used.

> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From sobolak at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 01:06:04 2007
From: sobolak at gmail.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:06:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <de1ad2fe0709261606i391653c0l781fffb7a528049e@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
>

Ask Craig and his list?

Obtained by entering the search terms below on chicago.craigslist.org

Django:  5 results
Python:  45 results
PHP: 360 results.  (Apparently Playboy needs PHP developers.)
Ruby: 55 results
Rails: 29 results.

Obviously there is a lot of crap in the numbers.  Quite a few of the
PHP listings are crap ("Teach English in South Korea!" probably
doesn't have much to do PHP).  And some jobs will be double-counted.

Nevertheless, I'd argue that they are a rough description of the
answer I'd give to your questions.  Ruby/Rails seems to be popular
more with web designers who want easy dynamic sites and this has a bit
more traction than Python does. YMMV.

brian

-- 
--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 06:16:10 2007
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:16:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <de1ad2fe0709261606i391653c0l781fffb7a528049e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1ad2fe0709261606i391653c0l781fffb7a528049e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220709262116q74dce2dq4afac68a03388497@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/26/07, Brian Sobolak <sobolak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
> >
>
> Ask Craig and his list?
>
> Obtained by entering the search terms below on chicago.craigslist.org
>
> Django:  5 results
> Python:  45 results
> PHP: 360 results.  (Apparently Playboy needs PHP developers.)
> Ruby: 55 results
> Rails: 29 results.
>
> Obviously there is a lot of crap in the numbers.


You'll find that craigstlist isn't returning php jobs, it's returning any
string with "php" in it. A ton of those results will get you
"submit_resume.php"


Quite a few of the
> PHP listings are crap ("Teach English in South Korea!" probably
> doesn't have much to do PHP).  And some jobs will be double-counted.
>
> Nevertheless, I'd argue that they are a rough description of the
> answer I'd give to your questions.  Ruby/Rails seems to be popular
> more with web designers who want easy dynamic sites and this has a bit
> more traction than Python does. YMMV.
>
> brian
>
> --
> --
> Brian Sobolak
> http://www.planetshwoop.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
---------------------------------------
Adam Jenkins
emperorcezar at gmail.com
312-399-5161
---------------------------------------
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From rc.dillenburg at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 07:07:52 2007
From: rc.dillenburg at gmail.com (Russell Dillenburg)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:07:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <408c01040709262207i26eaa725y3aa91a4ccc599c59@mail.gmail.com>

Ok I just wanted to chime in hear. This thread sparked an interest since I
am a java developer.  For a couple of years now I have been moving a little
closer to programming in Python.  I already wrote a couple scripts at work
in python, mostly just wrappers.   It did not take long at all to get going
with it, compared with php or java.  And the code looked so much cleaner
than similar php or perl scripts.



On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
> (anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
> good Python web developer in Chicago.
>
> *Specifically*
>
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?


So with that I don't think it would be hard to find a python developer.
Just hire a good OO and scripting developer and you're set.  Good
programmers write good code in any language.

*) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?




*) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?


Let's just say you get what you pay for.  That's not to say that php will
not get the job done.  I refer back to the Good Programmers/Good Code
sentence.

*) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?
>
> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
>
> Chris
>
> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

Russ
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From MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu  Thu Sep 27 16:46:04 2007
From: MDiPierro at cti.depaul.edu (DiPierro, Massimo)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:46:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] EWF
Message-ID: <C1AA20CAC1E41647BFF1D41215EDD475179ECDA66B@wagner.cti.depaul.edu>

Hi everybody,

I have released the source code for the Enterprise Web Framework (GPL2).
I also fixed those bugs I was aware of and tons of typos in the documentation.
You can find everything here:

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/default/index

The API are stable and they will be maintained. I only tested it with sqlite3 and postgresql, not mysql.
I will provide some free email support. I will also provide professional support to businesses via metacryption.com.

Any help, comment or suggestion will be greatly appreciated.

I am giving at talk about the use of EWF as a teaching tool tomorro at 3pm at DePaul in room 924. You are all welcome to attend.

Massimo

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Fri Sep 28 02:54:34 2007
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:54:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3FD84A3-29BE-4C31-9956-CFF68BEEAAF1@phaedrusdeinus.org>

On Sep 26, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?

In Chicago, easier than in most cities, given that a large portion of  
ChiPy have been exposed to core developers here.


> *) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?
>
> *) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?

In my experience, most Django developers come from being Python  
developers. Most PHP developers come from front-end design (or,  
worse, Dreamweaver-land). Most Rails developers come from PHP or Java.

Which is a roundabout way of agreeing with the other responders:  
Django developers might be thinner on the ground, but they're a  
higher-average-quality bunch.


> *) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?

If i'm doing my job right, and they're communicating properly, then  
there shouldn't be much in the way of support needed once i'm out of  
the picture. Django has the very handy built-in admin interface, and  
the template system is friendly-enough to web designers.

If they're convinced they'll need to change the code once i'm gone,  
they can either hire me back for a short period, or spring for an  
extra few hours for me to come in the office and get people up to  
speed on Python and Django. One of Python's biggest strengths is as a  
very readable language, which makes it easy to modify for most  
programmers once a few gotchas are covered (like spaces vs. tabs).

Depending on the client, mentioning the Washington Post, LJWorld, and  
Tabblo often helps, as does pointing to http://code.djangoproject.com/ 
wiki/DjangoPoweredSites .


> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome

Find a Django, Rails, and PHP freelancer. Give them a fairly  
complicated site to build. Ask for time estimates.

Then, actually pay them all to do it. Compare their actual time spent  
to their original estimates. Compare the sites functionally, and  
under load.

The downside of this empirical study is the requirement of extra cash  
on-hand to build multiple sites.


> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.

S'alright. I have recent first-hand experience on question #4.


-johnnnnnnnn




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 28 15:42:36 2007
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:42:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Python job posting
Message-ID: <18173.1228.445854.637240@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Just a heads up.  The group I work for at TradeLink
<http://www.tradelinkllc.com/> is growing.  We are looking for a research
programmer to work on our in-house automated trading platform.  Rather than
repost the full announcement here, I'll just direct interested parties to
the Python Job Board <http://www.python.org/community/jobs/>.  Search for
"TradeLink".

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/

From tottinge at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:29:23 2007
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:29:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a975a1ef0709280729s57f372fcgfa8bc6a004c5d0f2@mail.gmail.com>

I'm an experienced python developer, TDD/Agile methodology coach/trainer,
moderately well-known OO "guru" (so-called in the past by others), have been
programming for 28 years now. I don't have any Django or Rails experience.
Most of my experience has been off-web, not web dev.

Your question doesn't take people like me into consideration.  If the price
was right (I'm not cheap) I would love to work in Python for a living again
(preferably in some Unix-alike).  In fact, now that you've asked these
questions I'm going to march off and do some web.py and django stuff.

My question is what kinds of wages people are willing to pay for that kind
of work.  I'm sure it isn't quite like my consulting pay, but I must admit
to curiosity.

And no, that doesn't help with your homework.

tim

On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
> (anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
> good Python web developer in Chicago.
>
> *Specifically*
>
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?
>
> *) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?
>
> *) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?
>
> *) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?
>
> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
>
> Chris
>
> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com  Fri Sep 28 16:39:48 2007
From: Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com (Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:39:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <a975a1ef0709280729s57f372fcgfa8bc6a004c5d0f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF03222F44.F1C6224C-ON86257364.005064EB-86257364.00508B2F@na.manpower.com>

Hi Tim,

I am recruiting for one of my better clients in the North Suburbs.  They 
are paying upwards of 120k for talented Python Developers.  Please let me 
know if you or anyone else in the UserGroup is interested in hearing more. 
 Thanks!
 
Marty Murphy
Professional Placement Consultant

Manpower Professional
20 N. Wacker Dr Suite 3030
Chicago, Illinois 60606  USA
T: +1 312.263.3907
F: +1 312.263.5628 
C: +1 312.848.9843
 www.manpowerprofessional.com







"Tim Ottinger" 
Sent by: chicago-bounces at python.org

09/28/2007 09:29 AM
Please respond to
The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>


To
"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chicago] Census?






I'm an experienced python developer, TDD/Agile methodology coach/trainer, 
moderately well-known OO "guru" (so-called in the past by others), have 
been programming for 28 years now. I don't have any Django or Rails 
experience.  Most of my experience has been off-web, not web dev. 

Your question doesn't take people like me into consideration.  If the 
price was right (I'm not cheap) I would love to work in Python for a 
living again (preferably in some Unix-alike).  In fact, now that you've 
asked these questions I'm going to march off and do some web.py and django 
stuff. 

My question is what kinds of wages people are willing to pay for that kind 
of work.  I'm sure it isn't quite like my consulting pay, but I must admit 
to curiosity.

And no, that doesn't help with your homework. 

tim

On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,

I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
(anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
good Python web developer in Chicago.

*Specifically* 

*) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?

*) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?

*) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?

*) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in 
[the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
support the app once you've left?

Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome

Chris

PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.
_______________________________________________ 
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail and its attachments may contain Manpower Inc. proprietary 
information, which is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, or subject to COPYRIGHT 
belonging to Manpower Inc. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of 
the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the 
intended recipient of this e-mail, or the employee or agent responsible 
for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in 
relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is STRICTLY 
PROHIBITED and may be UNLAWFUL. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original 
and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank you.

______________________________________________________________________
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For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail and its attachments may contain Manpower Inc. proprietary information, which is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, or subject to COPYRIGHT belonging to Manpower Inc.  This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is STRICTLY PROHIBITED and may be UNLAWFUL.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.  Thank you.

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For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Sep 28 16:51:59 2007
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:51:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Census?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0709261311h72d30e26q8031eb7d8777a70f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640709280751q1e21c9a6xe041b06729f130cc@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/26/07, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I know this topic comes up constantly, but I'm interested in any data
> (anecdotal or otherwise) on how difficult (or easy) it is to hire a
> good Python web developer in Chicago.
>
> *Specifically*
>
> *) How tough is it to hire a Python Django developer?
>
> *) Is it easier (and / or cheaper) to hire a Rails developer?
>
> *) Is it easier (cheaper) to hire a PHP developer?
>
> *) Pretend you're a freelancer, justify writing an web application in
> [the python web framework of your choice] to a potential Chicago-land
> client that won't use your services for the long term life of the
> application.  They want you to write it, and walk away.  How will they
> support the app once you've left?
>
> Any thoughts on how to quantify these sorts of questions is welcome
>
> Chris
>
> PS. .  Yes, you're doing my homework for me.

Hey Chris, what is motivating your poll? Are you going to be making a
pitch to your boss for using a python framework?

If so,

I think you should go with the attitude that any good programmer would
do, though you'd want to get one that has experience with scripting
languages and experience working on someone else's code or with a team
of coders. That way you'll end up with someone who can write code that
is in scripting idiom, and will be conscientious of the fact that
other people have to come along to work on the code later.

Rails: it would probably be easier right now to find people who will
apply for a Ruby job since it's very trendy.

Ps. I hate people with bad code hygiene. Don't hire anyone who will
fuck up the mainline.


-- 
sheila

From mandric at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 00:57:59 2007
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:57:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Knight News Challenge: Important Reminder,
	Deadline Coming Oct. 15, Money Available for Good Journalism Ideas
In-Reply-To: <351B3EA6AC8757458A9F98BC1FB0BB0265C9CE@KFEXCH04.knightfdn.org>
References: <351B3EA6AC8757458A9F98BC1FB0BB0265C9CE@KFEXCH04.knightfdn.org>
Message-ID: <536089f30709271557h3128d349r5f799ae451e5f80c@mail.gmail.com>

If you're interested in Journalism and Technology read on, otherwise
sorry for the spam.  $5 million needs a good home ...

http://www.newschallenge.org

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eric Newton
Date: Sep 27, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: Knight News Challenge: Important Reminder, Deadline Coming
Oct. 15, Money Available for Good Journalism Ideas

Greetings Milan-

It's Knight News Challenge Season!

We only have two more weeks to remind everyone in the Known Journalism
Universe about the Knight News Challenge.

Last year, journalists being journalists, 2/3 of our applications came
in the two weeks before deadline.

We expect the same this year.

Since the deadline is Oct. 15, it's time to remind everyone that for the
coming contest we are talking now or never.

We're trying to do everything possible this year to get more
applications ... in gross numbers and, of course, in quality.

Do you know anyone interested in innovation in community journalism who
wants to try for some of the $5 million prize pool?

Would it be possible to alert your friends?

http://www.newschallenge.org <http://www.newschallenge.org/>

Eric Newton
Vice President, Journalism Program
John S. and James L. Knight Foundation