From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 1 20:47:03 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:47:03 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] benchmarks Message-ID: Perhaps this will be interesting to some of you http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/AlterEgo/default/show/76 Preliminary ORM benchmarks web2py vs SQLAlchemy vs Storm From szybalski at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 22:11:25 2008 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:11:25 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Elixir tutorial ? Message-ID: <804e5c70804011311p1ef651b2n4da3aabe2db0bf1b@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Would you guys know of a good tutorial for elixir? I am switching form assign_mapper to elixir, but I can't find simple examples of how to do various different select, select with relations, etc... Any good links. Lucas -- Automotive Recall Database. Cars, Trucks, etc. http://www.lucasmanual.com/recall/ Install Broadcom wireless card on Linux: http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/bcm43xx From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 22:31:39 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:31:39 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Elixir tutorial ? In-Reply-To: <804e5c70804011311p1ef651b2n4da3aabe2db0bf1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <804e5c70804011311p1ef651b2n4da3aabe2db0bf1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > Hello, > Would you guys know of a good tutorial for elixir? > I am switching form assign_mapper to elixir, but I can't find simple > examples of how to do various different select, select with relations, > etc... Elixir entities just proxy SA's Query object, so sqlalchemy docs are all you need. as mentioned in the tutorial here http://elixir.ematia.de/trac/wiki/TutorialDivingIn04 you get Movie.query. That's just a proxy to session.query(Movie) so you can follow these docs for more info: http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/04/ormtutorial.html#datamapping_querying . Movie.query.all(), Movie.query.filter_by(title="Pee Wee's Big Adventure") ... anything you want. From bray at sent.com Wed Apr 2 02:45:15 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Message-ID: Where are we meeting? Possible topics: * PyCon Recap * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make friends * web2py: why its fast and how to tell * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon * Flourish Recap * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use Python * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django * .... Possible meeting places: * my party room? * some dark ally? * Performics ? * Google ? * China Town? * Greek Town? * in an abandoned warehouse? * at a local college? * your mom's house? Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From matt at datawaslost.net Wed Apr 2 02:48:51 2008 From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:48:51 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: personally, i'd love to hear more about web2py, netflix discussion thats been going on lately, and why mashups love django/python mashups matt On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Where are we meeting? > > Possible topics: > > * PyCon Recap > * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make friends > * web2py: why its fast and how to tell > * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon > * Flourish Recap > * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use Python > * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django > * .... > > Possible meeting places: > > * my party room? > * some dark ally? > * Performics ? > * Google ? > * China Town? > * Greek Town? > * in an abandoned warehouse? > * at a local college? > * your mom's house? > > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Apr 2 03:03:35 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:03:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> Once again I teach on Thursday. If for a change you want to have the meeting on Tuesday instead, I can host. Massimo On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > Where are we meeting? > > Possible topics: > > * PyCon Recap > * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make > friends > * web2py: why its fast and how to tell > * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon > * Flourish Recap > * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use Python > * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django > * .... > > Possible meeting places: > > * my party room? > * some dark ally? > * Performics ? > * Google ? > * China Town? > * Greek Town? > * in an abandoned warehouse? > * at a local college? > * your mom's house? > > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Apr 2 05:28:44 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:28:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] benchmarks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to add that those benchmarks do not include web2py features that I do not know how to reproduce in SQLAlchemy and Storm. I actually took some SQLAlchemy examples and tried to code them in web2py. It would be nice to do the opposite as well. I hope somebody here can help me with some suggestions. For example, how do I do in SQLAlchemy and Storm the following? - joins >>> rows=db((db.table1.field1==db.table2.field2)& (db.table2.field2.year()<2000)).select() which more or less translates in (assuming postgresql): "SELECT table1.id, table1.field1 table2.id, table2.field2 FROM table1, table2 WHERE (table1.field1=table2.field2) AND (EXTRACT ('year',table2.field2)<2000) ;" - nested selects >>> rows=db(db.table1.field1.lower().belongs(db()._select (db.table2.field2))).select() which more or less translates in (assuming postgresql): "SELECT table1.id, table1.field1 FROM table1 WHERE LOWER (table1.field1) IN (SELECT table2.field2 FROM table2);" - storing an manipulating queries without communicating with the database >>> query1=(db.table1.field1==db.table2.field2)& (db.table2.field2.year()<2000) >>> query2=query1|(db.table1.field1.upper().like('%a%') >>> myset=db(query2) I would also like to benchmark the Django ORM, anybody up to the task of translating the benchmark code in Django? I could really use some help. Massimo From nerkles at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 15:52:59 2008 From: nerkles at gmail.com (Isaac Csandl) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:52:59 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] benchmarks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <493F4BB6-01CA-4DDE-A8EB-1B0475BC8C6D@gmail.com> On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:28 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > I hope somebody here can help me with some suggestions. For example, > how do I do in SQLAlchemy and Storm the following? > > - joins > >>>> rows=db((db.table1.field1==db.table2.field2)& > (db.table2.field2.year()<2000)).select() > in SA, assuming you've set up classes and mappers already: q = session .query (Class1).join('name_of_relation_to_class2').filter(Class2.year<2000) then print q to see the actual query - or add .all() to run it immediately i'd do more, but i'm out of time for today. HTH. --isaac From cwebber at imagescape.com Wed Apr 2 16:43:27 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:43:27 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> (Massimo Di Pierro's message of "Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:03:35 -0500") References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> I'm not sure about others in the group, but I'd be fine with having this one meeting on a tuesday instead of a thursday for a change, though I think that for preperation reasons it's better to have it on the 15th rather than the 8th. I've seen Massimo's web2py talk and I do recommend it ;) Massimo Di Pierro writes: > Once again I teach on Thursday. If for a change you want to have the > meeting on Tuesday instead, I can host. > > Massimo > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > >> Where are we meeting? >> >> Possible topics: >> >> * PyCon Recap >> * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make >> friends >> * web2py: why its fast and how to tell >> * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon >> * Flourish Recap >> * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use Python >> * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django >> * .... >> >> Possible meeting places: >> >> * my party room? >> * some dark ally? >> * Performics ? >> * Google ? >> * China Town? >> * Greek Town? >> * in an abandoned warehouse? >> * at a local college? >> * your mom's house? >> >> >> Brian Ray >> bray at sent.com >> http://kazavoo.com/blog >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Apr 2 16:38:16 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:38:16 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] benchmarks In-Reply-To: <493F4BB6-01CA-4DDE-A8EB-1B0475BC8C6D@gmail.com> References: <493F4BB6-01CA-4DDE-A8EB-1B0475BC8C6D@gmail.com> Message-ID: thanks. On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Isaac Csandl wrote: > > On Apr 1, 2008, at 10:28 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: >> I hope somebody here can help me with some suggestions. For example, >> how do I do in SQLAlchemy and Storm the following? >> >> - joins >> >>>>> rows=db((db.table1.field1==db.table2.field2)& >> (db.table2.field2.year()<2000)).select() >> > > in SA, assuming you've set up classes and mappers already: > q = > session > .query > (Class1).join('name_of_relation_to_class2').filter(Class2.year<2000) > > then print q to see the actual query - or add .all() to run it > immediately > > i'd do more, but i'm out of time for today. HTH. > > --isaac > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Wed Apr 2 16:57:36 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:57:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> Message-ID: <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py again, I let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. Massimo On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > I'm not sure about others in the group, but I'd be fine with having > this one meeting on a tuesday instead of a thursday for a change, > though I think that for preperation reasons it's better to have it on > the 15th rather than the 8th. > > I've seen Massimo's web2py talk and I do recommend it ;) > > Massimo Di Pierro writes: > >> Once again I teach on Thursday. If for a change you want to have the >> meeting on Tuesday instead, I can host. >> >> Massimo >> >> On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >> >>> Where are we meeting? >>> >>> Possible topics: >>> >>> * PyCon Recap >>> * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make >>> friends >>> * web2py: why its fast and how to tell >>> * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon >>> * Flourish Recap >>> * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use >>> Python >>> * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django >>> * .... >>> >>> Possible meeting places: >>> >>> * my party room? >>> * some dark ally? >>> * Performics ? >>> * Google ? >>> * China Town? >>> * Greek Town? >>> * in an abandoned warehouse? >>> * at a local college? >>> * your mom's house? >>> >>> >>> Brian Ray >>> bray at sent.com >>> http://kazavoo.com/blog >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From shekay at pobox.com Wed Apr 2 17:10:50 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:10:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Chicago (or chi-land) meetup Message-ID: I would like to have another meetup, and wonder if we could go ahead and set the expectation to have monthly meetups ala how we do for Chipy. For example, chipy meets the 2nd Thursday of every month. I am crossposting to chipy in case people there would like to also vote since there is cross over. Reply with +1, 0, -1. Do you like the idea of meeting monthly? Which week? 1st week 2nd week 3rd week 4th week Which day of week? Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun Location? Arranged on a just in time basis in a different location every month, with a benolevant dictator to solicit meeting locations. In Chicago all the time? Allow suburbs? Any other ideas? -- sheila From shekay at pobox.com Wed Apr 2 17:19:15 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:19:15 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Next Chicago (or chi-land) meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 10:10 AM, sheila miguez wrote: > Reply with +1, 0, -1. > > Do you like the idea of meeting monthly? +1 Otherwise the user group will decay. > Which week? I only have a strong opinion not to meet on chipy week. > 2nd week -1 > Which day of week? > Fri -1 > Location? > Arranged on a just in time basis in a different location every month, > with a benolevant dictator to solicit meeting locations. +1 > Allow suburbs? +1 We have a lot of suburban users. -- sheila From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 23:04:28 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:04:28 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py again, I > let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. +1 I actually have a conflict Thursday so I vote for Tuesday April 15th ;) PS. no, the conflict is not cramming in my taxes. I plan to do that the night of April 14th. > > Massimo > > > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > > > I'm not sure about others in the group, but I'd be fine with having > > this one meeting on a tuesday instead of a thursday for a change, > > though I think that for preperation reasons it's better to have it on > > the 15th rather than the 8th. > > > > I've seen Massimo's web2py talk and I do recommend it ;) > > > > Massimo Di Pierro writes: > > > >> Once again I teach on Thursday. If for a change you want to have the > >> meeting on Tuesday instead, I can host. > >> > >> Massimo > >> > >> On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > >> > >>> Where are we meeting? > >>> > >>> Possible topics: > >>> > >>> * PyCon Recap > >>> * MetaClass Frame Hacking for Fun and a nice way to make > >>> friends > >>> * web2py: why its fast and how to tell > >>> * Help fill out Brian's missing Surveys from PyCon > >>> * Flourish Recap > >>> * top ten reasons why netflix winner may / may not use > >>> Python > >>> * Noonhat, EveryBlock and why mashups love Python / Django > >>> * .... > >>> > >>> Possible meeting places: > >>> > >>> * my party room? > >>> * some dark ally? > >>> * Performics ? > >>> * Google ? > >>> * China Town? > >>> * Greek Town? > >>> * in an abandoned warehouse? > >>> * at a local college? > >>> * your mom's house? > >>> > >>> > >>> Brian Ray > >>> bray at sent.com > >>> http://kazavoo.com/blog > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chicago mailing list > >>> Chicago at python.org > >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago mailing list > >> Chicago at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From bray at sent.com Thu Apr 3 03:19:00 2008 From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:19:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > wrote: >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py again, I >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > +1 Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. But, I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: +1 for April 15th at Depaul But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may fall victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled ourselves. Concerning web2py, I think hearing it "again" does not sound as good as hearing it in "fresh new light." Regardless, I think we should have one of the three be a fresh new presentation on web2py, if possible. One thing I learned from countless hours of reading the surveys' from Pycon (have you filled out yours) is that some Python goers really do like the Hacks. This is why I am pushing on some FrameHackery. Anyone want to come forward and present on this. I can recall embarrassing frame hackery being done by even some of the best of us. I am not pointing fingers here; although, lets get back to our hack-roots ok? Who is up for the challenge? I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should have a group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- raising team? Brian Ray bray at sent.com http://kazavoo.com/blog From bluewire at imapmail.org Wed Apr 2 15:02:44 2008 From: bluewire at imapmail.org (Neal Dudley) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:02:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] OT: Key signing request Message-ID: <47F383F4.5040904@imapmail.org> Ido suggested that I post here to find people in Chicago who would be willing and able to sign my GPG key. I am generally going to be in the loop area. I apologize for being off topic. (Although Python *does* rule - so I suppose I can safely assume that the people on this list would be equally as awesome, right?) If you are able to sign my key, please contact me. I appreciate your time. From szybalski at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 15:37:50 2008 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 08:37:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Flourish 2008 Information and Directions In-Reply-To: <20080402124616.17306.qmail@acm.cs.uic.edu> References: <20080402124616.17306.qmail@acm.cs.uic.edu> Message-ID: <804e5c70804030637r4617e6d9j5a3d9baf04cc8377@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, Flourish Conference 2008 starts tomorrow! Flourish 2008 will run from Friday, April 4th till Saturday, April 5th. Everything seems to be coming together and everyone on the Flourish Team believes we are about to put on a great confererence for you. We have 16 speakers, 6 special events and activities and currently over 325 registered attendees. If you know someone who has yet to register for Flourish 2008 who would like to take advantage of our free online registration, that person should sign up by 8:30 PM today! The directions for how to get to UIC and Flourish 2008 are posted below this e-mail message. You can also refer to our venue page for the directions, a campus map, a link to the Flourish 2008 location in Google Maps and pictures of event locations. The venue page is located here: http://www.flourishconf.com/venue/. We would like to bring to your attention that the Flourish 2008 Schedule has changed considerably in the last few days. Yesterday we added a new speaker and changed a couple of speech times. Unfortunately, these changes will not be reflected in your Flourish 2008 phamplet (although we may provide a corrective insert). You can see the updated Flourish 2008 schedule here: http://www.flourishconf.com/schedule/. One event we particularly would like to bring to your attention is the Code for a Cause Hack-a-thon. The Code for a Cause Hack-a-thon is a great way to get involved with writing open source software while performing an act of community service. Dozens of open source developers and enthusiasts will collaborate to build open source websites and applications for local non-profit organizations. Projects include an interactive map of homeless shelters in Chicago, a website for a reforestation program in Ethiopia and a Facebook widget framework for raising awareness about critical social issues. Volunteers of all skill levels and backgrounds (including development, design, documentation, etc.) are welcome to attend! See you soon, The 2008 Flourish Team Directions to Flourish 2008: By CTA Train: 1. Take the CTA Blue Line to the UIC Halsted station. 2. Walk east to the Halsted St. exit. 3. Once on Halsted St., turn right and walk south past Harrison St. to Polk St. 4. Turn right (west) and enter UIC Student Center East (SCE). 5. Take the escalators up to the third Floor of the building to enter the registration area. By CTA Bus: 1. Take CTA #8 Halsted Bus to Polk St. 2. Exit at Polk St. and enter UIC Student Center East (SCE) 3. Take the escalators up to the third Floor of the building to enter the registration area. By Car from I-90 West (Dan Ryan Expressway West): 1. From westbound I-90, turn off at Exit 52B (Roosevelt Rd./Taylor St.). 2. Continue north past Roosevelt Rd. 3. Turn left (west) on Taylor St. 4. Cross over the bridge and turn right (North) into the UIC Halsted Street Parking Structure. Parking costs about $12 on Friday and $7 on Saturday. When entering the parking structure, use the left most lane unless you happen to have a parking permit. 5. Walk northwest to Polk St. and Halsted St., cross the street and enter UIC Student Center East (SCE). 6. Take the escalators up to the third Floor of the building to enter the registration area. By Car from I-90 East (Dan Ryan Expressway East): 1. From eastbound I-90, turn off at Exit 52A (Taylor St./Roosevelt Rd.). 2. Turn right (west) on Taylor St. 3. Turn right (north) into the UIC Halsted Street Parking Structure. Parking costs about $12 on Friday and $7 on Saturday. When entering the parking structure, use the left most lane unless you happen to have a parking permit. 4. Walk northwest to Polk St. and Halsted St., cross the street and enter UIC Student Center East (SCE). 5. Take the escalators up to the third Floor of the building to enter the registration area. By Car from I-290 East (Eisenhower Expressway East): 1. From eastbound I-290, exit onto I-90 East. 2. Before merging onto I-90, turn off at Exit 52A (Taylor St./Roosevelt Rd.). 3. Turn right (west) on Taylor St. 4. Turn right (north) into the UIC Halsted Street Parking Structure. Parking costs about $12 on Friday and $7 on Saturday. When entering the parking structure, use the left most lane unless you happen to have a parking permit. 5. Walk northwest to Polk St. and Halsted St., cross the street and enter UIC Student Center East (SCE). 6. Take the escalators up to the third Floor of the building to enter the registration area. From ianb at colorstudy.com Thu Apr 3 20:47:07 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:47:07 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Flourish Framework Rumble? Message-ID: <47F5262B.2020407@colorstudy.com> I was thinking about participating in the Flourish Framework Rumble on Saturday. Is anyone planning a Python group? I'm fine with whatever framework, it'd be a chance to learn. It would probably be interesting to do something other than Python... except I wouldn't be a very helpful contributor in that case. Ian From shekay at pobox.com Fri Apr 4 03:16:35 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:16:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > > wrote: > >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py again, I > >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > > > +1 > > > Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. But, > I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > > +1 for April 15th at Depaul > > But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may fall > victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we > already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled ourselves. really truly truly tuesday? *ponders updating wiki* > I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should have a > group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > raising team? or what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint -- sheila From ianb at colorstudy.com Fri Apr 4 04:22:50 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:22:50 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> Message-ID: <47F590FA.40807@colorstudy.com> Brian Ray wrote: > One thing I learned from countless hours of reading the surveys' from > Pycon (have you filled out yours) is that some Python goers really do > like the Hacks. This is why I am pushing on some FrameHackery. Anyone > want to come forward and present on this. I can recall embarrassing > frame hackery being done by even some of the best of us. I am not > pointing fingers here; although, lets get back to our hack-roots ok? > Who is up for the challenge? I think I might be. I have an idea for a bytecode generator expression hack, and just did enough investigation to think it's feasible (though I haven't actually made the hack yet). I could do that. Ian From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 06:10:47 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <47F590FA.40807@colorstudy.com> References: <7BFAE86B-6A93-4AC8-A99E-7FF331ECCDBD@cs.depaul.edu> <6y63v01fn4.fsf@imagescape.com> <18814EAF-8BA4-4C07-857F-C47B3EC06BA1@cs.depaul.edu> <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> <47F590FA.40807@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Who is up for the challenge? > > I think I might be. I have an idea for a bytecode generator expression > hack, and just did enough investigation to think it's feasible (though I > haven't actually made the hack yet). I could do that. + 1 reminds of an old voidspace article on switching op codes to change variable scoping (in other words, implementing the anonymous "ruby" block in Python): http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/code_blocks.shtml fun stuff ;) From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 14:28:38 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 05:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> Message-ID: <611101.35198.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As long as you bring up the topic of Frame Hackery, I guess I should mention that Kumar and I posted the handouts+code for our PyCon tutorial here: http://groups.google.com/group/secrets-of-the-framework-creators/files We cover the basics of frame hacks, as well as some practical examples of frame hackery. Cheers, Feihong --- Brian Ray wrote: > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > > wrote: > >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py > again, I > >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > > > +1 > > > Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. > But, > I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > > +1 for April 15th at Depaul > > But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may > fall > victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we > already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled ourselves. > > Concerning web2py, I think hearing it "again" does not sound as > good > as hearing it in "fresh new light." Regardless, I think we should > have > one of the three be a fresh new presentation on web2py, if > possible. > > One thing I learned from countless hours of reading the surveys' > from > Pycon (have you filled out yours) is that some Python goers really > do > like the Hacks. This is why I am pushing on some FrameHackery. > Anyone > want to come forward and present on this. I can recall embarrassing > > frame hackery being done by even some of the best of us. I am not > pointing fingers here; although, lets get back to our hack-roots > ok? > Who is up for the challenge? > > I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should > have a > group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > raising team? > > Brian Ray > bray at sent.com > http://kazavoo.com/blog > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 14:56:15 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 07:56:15 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <611101.35198.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2E1E54EC-C8B7-4FD7-8B54-90D694A4CBE4@sent.com> <611101.35198.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > As long as you bring up the topic of Frame Hackery, I guess I should > mention that Kumar and I posted the handouts+code for our PyCon > tutorial here: > > http://groups.google.com/group/secrets-of-the-framework-creators/files and it's also browsable here http://farmdev.com/src/secrets/ for the ultra lazy since [it seems] you can't really host html in Google Groups. > > We cover the basics of frame hacks, as well as some practical > examples of frame hackery. > > Cheers, > Feihong > > > > --- Brian Ray wrote: > > > > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > > > wrote: > > >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py > > again, I > > >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. > > But, > > I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > > > > +1 for April 15th at Depaul > > > > But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may > > fall > > victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we > > already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled ourselves. > > > > Concerning web2py, I think hearing it "again" does not sound as > > good > > as hearing it in "fresh new light." Regardless, I think we should > > have > > one of the three be a fresh new presentation on web2py, if > > possible. > > > > One thing I learned from countless hours of reading the surveys' > > from > > Pycon (have you filled out yours) is that some Python goers really > > do > > like the Hacks. This is why I am pushing on some FrameHackery. > > Anyone > > want to come forward and present on this. I can recall embarrassing > > > > frame hackery being done by even some of the best of us. I am not > > pointing fingers here; although, lets get back to our hack-roots > > ok? > > Who is up for the challenge? > > > > I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should > > have a > > group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > > raising team? > > > > Brian Ray > > bray at sent.com > > http://kazavoo.com/blog > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Fri Apr 4 15:56:36 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 06:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <759175.99015.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> D'oh, I totally forgot about that. Also, if there's any interest I think we'd be willing to re-present some of our material from the tutorial. Although I actually already presented the frame hack stuff at a ChiPy meeting last year, Kumar could do it this time so that no computers are harmed during the presentation ;-) --- Kumar McMillan wrote: > and it's also browsable here http://farmdev.com/src/secrets/ for > the > ultra lazy since [it seems] you can't really host html in Google > Groups. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From ken at stox.org Sun Apr 6 09:13:30 2008 From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:13:30 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Congrats to Massimo Di Pierro Message-ID: <1207466010.17981.106.camel@stox.dyndns.org> For web2py and work on the Code for a Cause Hack-a-thon, at the Flourish conference, produced an application building an on-line map for locating Chicago homeless shelters and social service providers. Damn fine work in a amazingly short period of time. A great example of the power of Python, and I think he may have won many converts by that example. We've got some incredible coders in this town. From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 14:35:56 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 05:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update the wiki soon. Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. - Feihong --- sheila miguez wrote: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > > > wrote: > > >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py > again, I > > >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. > But, > > I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > > > > +1 for April 15th at Depaul > > > > But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may > fall > > victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we > > already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled > ourselves. > > really truly truly tuesday? > > *ponders updating wiki* > > > I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should > have a > > group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > > raising team? > > or > > what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint > > > -- > sheila > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From carl at personnelware.com Tue Apr 8 15:47:36 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper Message-ID: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com> In the last year a parser was demoed that would first analyze examples of what was to be parsed, and create a template so that the static parts could be ignored. The example was scraping wikipedia, and being able to get the title and content identified without having to wade thought the html. Now I cant find it. Anyone know what it was called? Carl K From szybalski at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 15:54:26 2008 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:54:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper In-Reply-To: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com> References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com> Message-ID: <804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com> http://code.google.com/p/templatemaker/ On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: > In the last year a parser was demoed that would first analyze examples of what > was to be parsed, and create a template so that the static parts could be > ignored. The example was scraping wikipedia, and being able to get the title > and content identified without having to wade thought the html. > > Now I cant find it. Anyone know what it was called? > > Carl K > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Automotive Recall Database. Cars, Trucks, etc. http://www.lucasmanual.com/recall/ Install Broadcom wireless card on Linux: http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/bcm43xx From carl at personnelware.com Tue Apr 8 16:06:37 2008 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:06:37 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper In-Reply-To: <804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com> <804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47FB7BED.5000406@personnelware.com> Bingo. Thanks, Carl K Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > http://code.google.com/p/templatemaker/ > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: >> In the last year a parser was demoed that would first analyze examples of what >> was to be parsed, and create a template so that the static parts could be >> ignored. The example was scraping wikipedia, and being able to get the title >> and content identified without having to wade thought the html. >> >> Now I cant find it. Anyone know what it was called? >> >> Carl K >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net Tue Apr 8 16:25:59 2008 From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:25:59 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper In-Reply-To: <804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com> <804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost> Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the talk? On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 08:54 -0500, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > http://code.google.com/p/templatemaker/ > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Carl Karsten wrote: > > In the last year a parser was demoed that would first analyze examples of what > > was to be parsed, and create a template so that the static parts could be > > ignored. The example was scraping wikipedia, and being able to get the title > > and content identified without having to wade thought the html. > > > > Now I cant find it. Anyone know what it was called? > > > > Carl K > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 16:42:14 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper In-Reply-To: <1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <934760.99653.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As far as I recall, the talk was mostly a live demo. There were no slides. --- Tom Printy wrote: > Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the > talk? > > On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 08:54 -0500, Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > http://code.google.com/p/templatemaker/ > > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Carl Karsten > wrote: > > > In the last year a parser was demoed that would first analyze > examples of what > > > was to be parsed, and create a template so that the static > parts could be > > > ignored. The example was scraping wikipedia, and being able > to get the title > > > and content identified without having to wade thought the > html. > > > > > > Now I cant find it. Anyone know what it was called? > > > > > > Carl K > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago mailing list > > > Chicago at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk Tue Apr 8 16:49:24 2008 From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (Steven Githens) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:49:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47FB85F4.9090502@caret.cam.ac.uk> Feihong Hsu wrote: > So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update the > wiki soon. > > Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. > +1 > But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. > > - Feihong > > > --- sheila miguez wrote: > > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >> >>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >>> > wrote: >>> >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py >>> >> again, I >> >>> >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. >>> > >>> > +1 >>> >>> >>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. >>> >> But, >> >>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: >>> >>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul >>> >>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may >>> >> fall >> >>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we >>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled >>> >> ourselves. >> >> really truly truly tuesday? >> >> *ponders updating wiki* >> >> >>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should >>> >> have a >> >>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- >>> raising team? >>> >> or >> >> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint >> >> >> -- >> sheila >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net Tue Apr 8 16:52:45 2008 From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:52:45 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered Message-ID: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> Google seems to be embracing python fully. http://mashable.com/2008/04/08/google-app-engine/ From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 17:01:08 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:01:08 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> Awesome. Also, from the SDK: google_appengine/lib/webob google_appengine/lib/django So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? Chris On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Tom Printy wrote: > Google seems to be embracing python fully. > > http://mashable.com/2008/04/08/google-app-engine/ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 17:07:17 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <489908.17551.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is excellent news indeed. Unfortunately, I was not among the first 10,000 people to sign up, so I can't try it out. If anyone who reads this list is part of the beta, could they give a talk about their experiences sometime? Also, it appears that Google App Engine is designed to be language neutral, and that other languages will also be supported. Here's a link to an article that embeds Guido's segment of the presentation: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/07/google-jumps-head-first-into-web-services-with-google-app-engine/ Unfortunately, the audio is pretty bad and I can't make out everything he says. --- Tom Printy wrote: > Google seems to be embracing python fully. > > http://mashable.com/2008/04/08/google-app-engine/ > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From jason at multiply.org Tue Apr 8 17:12:14 2008 From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:12:14 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <489908.17551.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <489908.17551.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4e0c849b0804080812x456f8195s35bc8d1669eae04@mail.gmail.com> they have better quality videos on the google site: http://code.google.com/appengine/ the intro from campfire one is what you are looking for. -jason On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > This is excellent news indeed. Unfortunately, I was not among the > first 10,000 people to sign up, so I can't try it out. If anyone who > reads this list is part of the beta, could they give a talk about > their experiences sometime? > > Also, it appears that Google App Engine is designed to be language > neutral, and that other languages will also be supported. Here's a > link to an article that embeds Guido's segment of the presentation: > > http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/04/07/google-jumps-head-first-into-web-services-with-google-app-engine/ > > Unfortunately, the audio is pretty bad and I can't make out > everything he says. > > > > > > --- Tom Printy wrote: > > > Google seems to be embracing python fully. > > > > http://mashable.com/2008/04/08/google-app-engine/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 17:15:23 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <47FB85F4.9090502@caret.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <68479.52548.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I noticed that the wiki has just been updated. Since Massimo has graciously stepped up to host this month, and he chose Tuesday, I think it's best to go ahead with that. --- Steven Githens wrote: > Feihong Hsu wrote: > > So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update > the > > wiki soon. > > > > Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this > Thursday. > > > +1 > > > But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. > > > > - Feihong > > > > > > --- sheila miguez wrote: > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > >> > >>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about > web2py > >>> > >> again, I > >> > >>> >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > >>> > > >>> > +1 > >>> > >>> > >>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting > day. > >>> > >> But, > >> > >>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > >>> > >>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul > >>> > >>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we > may > >>> > >> fall > >> > >>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than > we > >>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled > >>> > >> ourselves. > >> > >> really truly truly tuesday? > >> > >> *ponders updating wiki* > >> > >> > >>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we > should > >>> > >> have a > >> > >>> group presentation by the > ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > >>> raising team? > >>> > >> or > >> > >> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint > >> > >> > >> -- > >> sheila > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago mailing list > >> Chicago at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 17:37:04 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:37:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <68479.52548.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <47FB85F4.9090502@caret.cam.ac.uk> <68479.52548.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0804080837p65d8476cpda93000693ba6ac5@mail.gmail.com> Sounds good to me. I have a three boxes of O'Reilly books to give away at the meeting, courtesy of the fine folks at....O'Reilly. Chris On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > I noticed that the wiki has just been updated. Since Massimo has > graciously stepped up to host this month, and he chose Tuesday, I > think it's best to go ahead with that. > > > > > --- Steven Githens wrote: > > > Feihong Hsu wrote: > > > So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update > > the > > > wiki soon. > > > > > > Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this > > Thursday. > > > > > +1 > > > > > But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. > > > > > > - Feihong > > > > > > > > > --- sheila miguez wrote: > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > > >>> > wrote: > > >>> >> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about > > web2py > > >>> > > >> again, I > > >> > > >>> >> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > > >>> > > > >>> > +1 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting > > day. > > >>> > > >> But, > > >> > > >>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > > >>> > > >>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul > > >>> > > >>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we > > may > > >>> > > >> fall > > >> > > >>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than > > we > > >>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled > > >>> > > >> ourselves. > > >> > > >> really truly truly tuesday? > > >> > > >> *ponders updating wiki* > > >> > > >> > > >>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we > > should > > >>> > > >> have a > > >> > > >>> group presentation by the > > ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > > >>> raising team? > > >>> > > >> or > > >> > > >> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> sheila > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Chicago mailing list > > >> Chicago at python.org > > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago mailing list > > > Chicago at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 17:44:58 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> I need to know soon in order to reserve a place. I think I have one but the sooner we confirm the better. Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update the > wiki soon. > > Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. > But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. > > - Feihong > > > --- sheila miguez wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >>> >>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >>>> wrote: >>>>> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py >> again, I >>>>> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. >>>> >>>> +1 >>> >>> >>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. >> But, >>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: >>> >>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul >>> >>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may >> fall >>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we >>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled >> ourselves. >> >> really truly truly tuesday? >> >> *ponders updating wiki* >> >>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should >> have a >>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- >>> raising team? >> >> or >> >> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint >> >> >> -- >> sheila >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From ianb at colorstudy.com Tue Apr 8 18:40:48 2008 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Chris McAvoy wrote: > Awesome. > > Also, from the SDK: > > google_appengine/lib/webob > google_appengine/lib/django > > So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you > know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but lacking any context I didn't pay much attention to it. I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a far more worthy competitor than stupid Java. Ian From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 18:50:44 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:50:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but lacking > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. Enigmatic invites are cooler than straight up invites. Congrats on the virtual backpat from the Uncle Goog. > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a far more > worthy competitor than stupid Java. Indeed. It's a pretty exciting time. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of the new sql-free-stack that Amazon and Google are buying into. It makes me nervous. LAMP, in all it's wondrous forms has been such a rock in my web-life for the past few years, that this new PARADIGM sort of makes me wet my pants. If the future is schema-lite db's, cloud controllers and sandboxes, I'm ok with it...but someone is going to have to hold my hand. And get me clean underpants. Chris From cwebber at imagescape.com Tue Apr 8 18:55:35 2008 From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> (Massimo Di Pierro's message of "Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:44:58 -0500") References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> The majority have spoken in preference of this coming tuesday, and nobody's given any alternative plans for thursday. I don't have any authority status in the group, but if I did I'd say that it's end of discussion, we're going with Tuesday. In fact, I just did say it anyway. So there. :) Massimo Di Pierro writes: > I need to know soon in order to reserve a place. I think I have one > but the sooner we confirm the better. > > Massimo > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > >> So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update the >> wiki soon. >> >> Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. >> But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. >> >> - Feihong >> >> >> --- sheila miguez wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >>>> >>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py >>> again, I >>>>>> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>> >>>> >>>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. >>> But, >>>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: >>>> >>>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul >>>> >>>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may >>> fall >>>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we >>>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled >>> ourselves. >>> >>> really truly truly tuesday? >>> >>> *ponders updating wiki* >>> >>>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should >>> have a >>>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- >>>> raising team? >>> >>> or >>> >>> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint >>> >>> >>> -- >>> sheila >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> ______________ >> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of >> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 19:00:13 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:00:13 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <115FDCC7-1BEF-4773-BD40-9EC8991DB89D@cs.depaul.edu> I was going to post this video response but they disabled it http://www.vimeo.com/875433 This is unfair. Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > Chris McAvoy wrote: >> Awesome. >> >> Also, from the SDK: >> >> google_appengine/lib/webob >> google_appengine/lib/django >> >> So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you >> know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but lacking > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a far > more > worthy competitor than stupid Java. > > Ian > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 19:06:44 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:06:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> Message-ID: <9E6601DE-98A6-4B9D-A2C7-4358BC12A4EB@cs.depaul.edu> OK I will find a room. You can always cancel. Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > The majority have spoken in preference of this coming tuesday, and > nobody's given any alternative plans for thursday. I don't have any > authority status in the group, but if I did I'd say that it's end of > discussion, we're going with Tuesday. > > In fact, I just did say it anyway. So there. :) > > > Massimo Di Pierro writes: > >> I need to know soon in order to reserve a place. I think I have one >> but the sooner we confirm the better. >> >> Massimo >> >> On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: >> >>> So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update >>> the >>> wiki soon. >>> >>> Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. >>> But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. >>> >>> - Feihong >>> >>> >>> --- sheila miguez wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py >>>> again, I >>>>>>> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. >>>> But, >>>>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: >>>>> >>>>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul >>>>> >>>>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may >>>> fall >>>>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we >>>>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled >>>> ourselves. >>>> >>>> really truly truly tuesday? >>>> >>>> *ponders updating wiki* >>>> >>>>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should >>>> have a >>>>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- >>>>> raising team? >>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> sheila >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> __ >>> ______________ >>> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of >>> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >>> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From adrian at holovaty.com Tue Apr 8 20:12:47 2008 From: adrian at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:12:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you > > know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but lacking > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. I got invited to the thing but didn't want to shell out the money for plane/hotel without knowing the topic of the meeting. Go Python! :-D Adrian From adrian at holovaty.com Tue Apr 8 20:12:47 2008 From: adrian at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:12:47 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you > > know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but lacking > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. I got invited to the thing but didn't want to shell out the money for plane/hotel without knowing the topic of the meeting. Go Python! :-D Adrian From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 20:18:02 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:18:02 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <50205ED6-34EE-4E7F-847E-94AB922C84E2@cs.depaul.edu> Are they using a fork of the django templates or is there an agreement that they will use the current one? Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:12 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking > wrote: >>> So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you >>> know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? >> >> Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but >> lacking >> any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > I got invited to the thing but didn't want to shell out the money for > plane/hotel without knowing the topic of the meeting. > > Go Python! :-D > > Adrian > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From cstejerean at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 20:30:57 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:30:57 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <50205ED6-34EE-4E7F-847E-94AB922C84E2@cs.depaul.edu> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> <50205ED6-34EE-4E7F-847E-94AB922C84E2@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <276266d0804081130p11996c26k2f6ed7fa5b348add@mail.gmail.com> I signed up last night (and while I got waitlisted I received an email within the hour saying my account has been approved). I haven't had a chance yet to play with it but I'm planning to build a simple app sometime this week. If there is interest I can give a short presentation on my experience at one of the upcoming meetings. - Cosmin On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Are they using a fork of the django templates or is there an > agreement that they will use the current one? > > Massimo > > > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:12 PM, Adrian Holovaty wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking > > wrote: > >>> So...uh...Ian, Adrian...you guys got anything to tell us? Did you > >>> know your projects were going to be included in the SDK? > >> > >> Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but > >> lacking > >> any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > > > I got invited to the thing but didn't want to shell out the money for > > plane/hotel without knowing the topic of the meeting. > > > > Go Python! :-D > > > > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com From garrett at mojave-corp.com Tue Apr 8 20:26:07 2008 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:26:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> As a member of the local Python scene who's been privileged to rub shoulders with visionaries like Ian and Adrian, I gotta say, this feels like watching a good friend make it into the top five of American Idol! (Okay, that's totally gay, but after years of stoic denial, I now freely admit that I'm a fanboy of outlandish pop Americana.) Google got this right across the board and I think it will quickly replace EC2 as the "platform in the cloud" of choice. That means universal recognition. Get ready people -- this is the killer app that will put Python squarely in the app-dev limelight over the next several years. For good or for bad, I'm not sure. But it's gonna happen. Google mentions that they might support other languages in the future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP nor Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one of the three internally supported Google languages (the others being C and Python), I can't see it running in the distributed environment Google's providing. Once Ruby/Java/PHP devotees start using Python for app development -- particularly in a well executed, geographically distributed, scalable, affordable environment -- many will happily forget times past and make the switch without complaint. Those clamoring for other languages will wait quite a while (or forever) as Google works through its quota-imposed backlog of customers. So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. I look forward to greeting the new influx of Python users. I can't think of a more intelligent and responsible community (except McAvoy) to take on such a challenge! ----- "Chris McAvoy" wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking > wrote: > > > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but > lacking > > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > Enigmatic invites are cooler than straight up invites. Congrats on > the virtual backpat from the Uncle Goog. > > > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a far > more > > worthy competitor than stupid Java. > > Indeed. It's a pretty exciting time. I'm still not entirely sure > what to make of the new sql-free-stack that Amazon and Google are > buying into. It makes me nervous. LAMP, in all it's wondrous forms > has been such a rock in my web-life for the past few years, that this > new PARADIGM sort of makes me wet my pants. > > If the future is schema-lite db's, cloud controllers and sandboxes, > I'm ok with it...but someone is going to have to hold my hand. And > get me clean underpants. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From maney at two14.net Tue Apr 8 20:36:04 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:36:04 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080408183604.GA27268@furrr.two14.net> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 11:50:44AM -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking wrote: > > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a far more > > worthy competitor than stupid Java. Ian, I can't imagine what you mean by this. PHP's virtue, such as it is, is that it works "everywhere" (anyone know a hosting service worthy of the name that doesn't offer PHP?). > Indeed. It's a pretty exciting time. I'm still not entirely sure > what to make of the new sql-free-stack that Amazon and Google are > buying into. Peter posted a link to a cautionary blog article about GoogApp whcih I at first thought verged on paranoia: http://staticallytyped.com/2008/04/08/googles-plans-for-app-engine/ On digging deeper, I guess he has a point - they may include eg. the Django framework, but without a relational db I can't see there being a lot of point to it. No models ("Since App Engine does not support Django models..."), so no automagic CRUD, so... yeah, it is lock-innish, but anyone who can't see that upfront needs to slapped with an ice-cold trout. Repeatedly. And that does make it a lot less interesting to me, since I'm not in the market for a pretty much complete rewrite of a Web 2.0 app that would need the sort of huge scalability that Google can offer (when they get the fee-based production version going). Those who do need that scalability - well, they shouldn't have any trouble weighing the pros and cons. -- If God did not exist, it would be necessary for us to invent Him. --Voltaire ...over and over again. -- the empirical evidence From maney at two14.net Tue Apr 8 20:38:20 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:38:20 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <50205ED6-34EE-4E7F-847E-94AB922C84E2@cs.depaul.edu> References: <1207666365.21429.9.camel@localhost> <3096c19d0804080801h135ffe2anf20f8d6d59b1d282@mail.gmail.com> <47FBA010.1080404@colorstudy.com> <50205ED6-34EE-4E7F-847E-94AB922C84E2@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <20080408183820.GB27268@furrr.two14.net> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 01:18:02PM -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Are they using a fork of the django templates or is there an > agreement that they will use the current one? It said, somewhere I can't find this moment, that the lib included the 0.96.1 release. Not very current at all if, like most Django junkies, one is focused on $HEAD. :-) /me might be considered a Django junkie, but only part-time -- On televison everything that happpens is connected; it's got to be. In life, marvelously unconnected things keep happening in the same prime time series. -- Amanda Cross From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 20:48:26 2008 From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:48:26 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: > Google mentions that they might support other languages in the future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP nor Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one of the three internally supported Google languages (the others being C and Python), I can't see it running in the distributed environment Google's providing. Google App Engine seems like it's designed for use by developers, *any* developer. The more the better! If Google Apps want to achieve this goal then they will release a PHP, Ruby, and Java version *very soon*. And they will because their main competitor, EC2, already supports it all. Besides, Google has always been very agile about how they release products. Remember when Google Code came out? It barely had any features at all and there was a lot of booing and hissing about "missing feature X." Do you remember when Codeplex came out? ( http://www.codeplex.com/ ). Of course you don't ;) It looks to me like Microsoft waited until Codeplex had *all* of those desired features before releasing it. If Google had waited until App Engine supported all the languages they wanted to target then it wouldn't get released until next year :) > > So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. but, yes, this is extremely helpful to the Python community because you know there are some people out there who are going plug their nose and say "whitespace, it's just you and me. We Can do this. I'm not afraid! I'm learning Python just so I can play with Google App Engine" From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 20:58:15 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:58:15 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> Message-ID: <3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu> You got the big lab on the lobby. 7-10pm. Tuesday April 15. Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > The majority have spoken in preference of this coming tuesday, and > nobody's given any alternative plans for thursday. I don't have any > authority status in the group, but if I did I'd say that it's end of > discussion, we're going with Tuesday. > > In fact, I just did say it anyway. So there. :) > > > Massimo Di Pierro writes: > >> I need to know soon in order to reserve a place. I think I have one >> but the sooner we confirm the better. >> >> Massimo >> >> On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: >> >>> So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update >>> the >>> wiki soon. >>> >>> Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. >>> But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. >>> >>> - Feihong >>> >>> >>> --- sheila miguez wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py >>>> again, I >>>>>>> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. >>>> But, >>>>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: >>>>> >>>>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul >>>>> >>>>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may >>>> fall >>>>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we >>>>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled >>>> ourselves. >>>> >>>> really truly truly tuesday? >>>> >>>> *ponders updating wiki* >>>> >>>>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should >>>> have a >>>>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- >>>>> raising team? >>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> sheila >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> __ >>> ______________ >>> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of >>> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >>> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From emperorcezar at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 21:07:19 2008 From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:07:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <58a5f2220804081207h2794def4s376f5bc0d48cfc04@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Garrett Smith > wrote: > > And they will because their main competitor, EC2, already > supports it all. Actually, the more I think about it, I don't see EC2 as a pure competitor, they offer different things. With EC2, you have the run the system, setup the db, basically setup your own stack. With Google, it's sign up and go coding. > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080408/44797c97/attachment.htm From pfein at pobox.com Tue Apr 8 21:08:35 2008 From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:08:35 -0400 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> References: <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: > > Google got this right across the board and I think it will quickly > replace EC2 as the "platform in the cloud" of choice. That means > universal recognition. Oh, come on, you've got to be kidding me. EC2 is a general purpose virtualization platform (and not the only one at that). You get full control of the machine and can run any software you like. Yes, there are some comparable use cases, but on a technically level they're radically different. And who knows what pricing's gonna be? > Google mentions that they might support other languages in the > future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's > trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP nor > Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one Sandboxing is trivial in Python? Bastion/rexec has been disabled from 2.2 onward. Maybe if you employ Guido, it's possible, but I still wouldn't call it trivial. Java meanwhile has supported sandboxing since day one - remember it was designed to run browser applets. > Once Ruby/Java/PHP devotees start using Python for app development > -- particularly in a well executed, geographically distributed, > scalable, affordable environment -- many will happily forget times > past and make the switch without complaint. Those And the millions of existing sites are just going to magically port themselves, intranets included, with the PHBs singing Hallejulah all the way to the unemployment office. All hail the Googleplex! > So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. In summary: dry your shorts off & turn your brain back on. -- Pete pfein at pobox.com From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 21:27:19 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:27:19 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: References: <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <3096c19d0804081227o2dae732br8fc15386a602e51b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Pete wrote: > > In summary: dry your shorts off & turn your brain back on. What a jerk. http://bp2.blogger.com/_dm_RWWtrWAc/RecBw-8G2yI/AAAAAAAAACk/ndWcfvadS58/s1600-h/mr_angry.jpg From garrett at mojave-corp.com Tue Apr 8 21:31:01 2008 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:31:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <26371027.206691207683042914.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <2680157.206751207683061752.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> EC2's a fantastic roll-your-own compute grid. It doesn't make as much sense for web apps. Regarding scale and availability, Amazon has only just started to broach the topic distributed applications with Elastic IP Addresses and Availability Zones. Nothing comes out of the box in EC2 -- you have to build your architecture piece by piece. As I'm in the middle of it, I can tell you it's real work. Google is higher in the stack with AppEngine. You provide the code, they provide the application services. Unless you're building non-traditional web apps or have the time to reinvent canonical architectures, this is what you want as a developer. Sandboxing in Python is utterly trivial if you embed the interpreter. (Embedding the interpreter is pretty damn easy too :) And for the record, wetting ones pants is actually a lot of fun once you get over the whole "social thing". ----- "Pete" wrote: > On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: > > > > Google got this right across the board and I think it will quickly > > > replace EC2 as the "platform in the cloud" of choice. That means > > universal recognition. > > Oh, come on, you've got to be kidding me. EC2 is a general purpose > virtualization platform (and not the only one at that). You get full > > control of the machine and can run any software you like. Yes, there > > are some comparable use cases, but on a technically level they're > radically different. And who knows what pricing's gonna be? > > > Google mentions that they might support other languages in the > > future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's > > trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP nor > > > Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one > > Sandboxing is trivial in Python? Bastion/rexec has been disabled from > > 2.2 onward. Maybe if you employ Guido, it's possible, but I still > wouldn't call it trivial. Java meanwhile has supported sandboxing > since day one - remember it was designed to run browser applets. > > > Once Ruby/Java/PHP devotees start using Python for app development > > > -- particularly in a well executed, geographically distributed, > > scalable, affordable environment -- many will happily forget times > > > past and make the switch without complaint. Those > > And the millions of existing sites are just going to magically port > themselves, intranets included, with the PHBs singing Hallejulah all > > the way to the unemployment office. All hail the Googleplex! > > > So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. > > In summary: dry your shorts off & turn your brain back on. > > -- > Pete > pfein at pobox.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 21:36:49 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:36:49 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: Can anybody point me to a list of supported Model Properties (i.e. field types)? Massimo On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Garrett Smith corp.com> wrote: >> Google mentions that they might support other languages in the >> future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's >> trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP >> nor Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one of >> the three internally supported Google languages (the others being >> C and Python), I can't see it running in the distributed >> environment Google's providing. > > Google App Engine seems like it's designed for use by developers, > *any* developer. The more the better! If Google Apps want to achieve > this goal then they will release a PHP, Ruby, and Java version *very > soon*. And they will because their main competitor, EC2, already > supports it all. Besides, Google has always been very agile about how > they release products. Remember when Google Code came out? It barely > had any features at all and there was a lot of booing and hissing > about "missing feature X." Do you remember when Codeplex came out? ( > http://www.codeplex.com/ ). Of course you don't ;) It looks to me > like Microsoft waited until Codeplex had *all* of those desired > features before releasing it. If Google had waited until App Engine > supported all the languages they wanted to target then it wouldn't get > released until next year :) > > >> >> So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. > > but, yes, this is extremely helpful to the Python community because > you know there are some people out there who are going plug their nose > and say "whitespace, it's just you and me. We Can do this. I'm not > afraid! I'm learning Python just so I can play with Google App > Engine" > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 21:59:22 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <981128.13410.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chris, Amazon handles relational databases just fine. You only give up SQL if you decide to use their SimpleDb service. Within your EC2 instance, you can install whatever database you like. --- Chris McAvoy wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking > wrote: > > > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but > lacking > > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > Enigmatic invites are cooler than straight up invites. Congrats on > the virtual backpat from the Uncle Goog. > > > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a > far more > > worthy competitor than stupid Java. > > Indeed. It's a pretty exciting time. I'm still not entirely sure > what to make of the new sql-free-stack that Amazon and Google are > buying into. It makes me nervous. LAMP, in all it's wondrous > forms > has been such a rock in my web-life for the past few years, that > this > new PARADIGM sort of makes me wet my pants. > > If the future is schema-lite db's, cloud controllers and sandboxes, > I'm ok with it...but someone is going to have to hold my hand. And > get me clean underpants. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From cstejerean at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 22:01:54 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:01:54 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <276266d0804081301l4c6dc2cbsc068f4b63c8efc26@mail.gmail.com> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/typesandpropertyclasses.html On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > Can anybody point me to a list of supported Model Properties (i.e. > field types)? > > Massimo > > > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Garrett Smith > corp.com> wrote: > >> Google mentions that they might support other languages in the > >> future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's > >> trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP > >> nor Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one of > >> the three internally supported Google languages (the others being > >> C and Python), I can't see it running in the distributed > >> environment Google's providing. > > > > Google App Engine seems like it's designed for use by developers, > > *any* developer. The more the better! If Google Apps want to achieve > > this goal then they will release a PHP, Ruby, and Java version *very > > soon*. And they will because their main competitor, EC2, already > > supports it all. Besides, Google has always been very agile about how > > they release products. Remember when Google Code came out? It barely > > had any features at all and there was a lot of booing and hissing > > about "missing feature X." Do you remember when Codeplex came out? ( > > http://www.codeplex.com/ ). Of course you don't ;) It looks to me > > like Microsoft waited until Codeplex had *all* of those desired > > features before releasing it. If Google had waited until App Engine > > supported all the languages they wanted to target then it wouldn't get > > released until next year :) > > > > > >> > >> So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. > > > > but, yes, this is extremely helpful to the Python community because > > you know there are some people out there who are going plug their nose > > and say "whitespace, it's just you and me. We Can do this. I'm not > > afraid! I'm learning Python just so I can play with Google App > > Engine" > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 22:05:48 2008 From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <813093.47281.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can take a good guess at what the price will be: $0. Only users who need the extra storage and bandwidth will need to shell out money. Unfortunately I have no idea when it's going to go into open beta. Hopefully soon. --- Pete wrote: > On Apr 8, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Garrett Smith wrote: > > > > Google got this right across the board and I think it will > quickly > > replace EC2 as the "platform in the cloud" of choice. That means > > > universal recognition. > > Oh, come on, you've got to be kidding me. EC2 is a general purpose > > virtualization platform (and not the only one at that). You get > full > control of the machine and can run any software you like. Yes, > there > are some comparable use cases, but on a technically level they're > radically different. And who knows what pricing's gonna be? > > > Google mentions that they might support other languages in the > > future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's > > trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP > nor > > Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one > > Sandboxing is trivial in Python? Bastion/rexec has been disabled > from > 2.2 onward. Maybe if you employ Guido, it's possible, but I still > > wouldn't call it trivial. Java meanwhile has supported sandboxing > > since day one - remember it was designed to run browser applets. > > > Once Ruby/Java/PHP devotees start using Python for app > development > > -- particularly in a well executed, geographically distributed, > > scalable, affordable environment -- many will happily forget > times > > past and make the switch without complaint. Those > > And the millions of existing sites are just going to magically port > > themselves, intranets included, with the PHBs singing Hallejulah > all > the way to the unemployment office. All hail the Googleplex! > > > So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. > > In summary: dry your shorts off & turn your brain back on. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu Tue Apr 8 22:09:18 2008 From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:09:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081301l4c6dc2cbsc068f4b63c8efc26@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <5473145.194991207679167596.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> <276266d0804081301l4c6dc2cbsc068f4b63c8efc26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <71F1E20F-F243-4184-B36A-0C77E8F6F7F2@cs.depaul.edu> thanks. On Apr 8, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/ > typesandpropertyclasses.html > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Massimo Di Pierro > wrote: >> Can anybody point me to a list of supported Model Properties (i.e. >> field types)? >> >> Massimo >> >> >> >> On Apr 8, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Garrett Smith >> corp.com> wrote: >>>> Google mentions that they might support other languages in the >>>> future. I doubt it. The sandboxing that they require and that's >>>> trivial in Python is not so in PHP, Ruby, and Java. Neither PHP >>>> nor Ruby is in Google's core competency and, while Java is one of >>>> the three internally supported Google languages (the others being >>>> C and Python), I can't see it running in the distributed >>>> environment Google's providing. >>> >>> Google App Engine seems like it's designed for use by developers, >>> *any* developer. The more the better! If Google Apps want to >>> achieve >>> this goal then they will release a PHP, Ruby, and Java version *very >>> soon*. And they will because their main competitor, EC2, already >>> supports it all. Besides, Google has always been very agile >>> about how >>> they release products. Remember when Google Code came out? It >>> barely >>> had any features at all and there was a lot of booing and hissing >>> about "missing feature X." Do you remember when Codeplex came >>> out? ( >>> http://www.codeplex.com/ ). Of course you don't ;) It looks to me >>> like Microsoft waited until Codeplex had *all* of those desired >>> features before releasing it. If Google had waited until App Engine >>> supported all the languages they wanted to target then it >>> wouldn't get >>> released until next year :) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> So, it turns out that Python really *is* it. >>> >>> but, yes, this is extremely helpful to the Python community because >>> you know there are some people out there who are going plug their >>> nose >>> and say "whitespace, it's just you and me. We Can do this. I'm not >>> afraid! I'm learning Python just so I can play with Google App >>> Engine" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > > > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 22:14:28 2008 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <981128.13410.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <981128.13410.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > Chris, > > Amazon handles relational databases just fine. Sort of, it's just not persistent. If you shut down your instance, you lose your data. Unless there's something new I haven't heard of. Chris From garrett at mojave-corp.com Tue Apr 8 22:35:11 2008 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:35:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <19025557.216771207686907510.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <15776946.216791207686911407.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> I've been steering clear of RDBs for the past several months and have been working with CouchDB just to see how much I can do without SQL. As Zope aficionados will attest, life does not *have* to begin and end with relational joins. Though I agree with Chris, there's so much history behind RDBs, it's a bit scary to consider alternatives. Google's restricting data persistence because they need to replicate across servers in multiple locations. All of the distributed databases I've seen (Couch, Mnesia, SimpleDB) compromise consistency at some level to support distributed, non-blocking writes. If you want to avoid the availability and scale problems of a single master/slave cluster, you'll need to venture out into the wilderness of these strange data stores. That said, Ian is fond of popping my esoteric architectural bubble by pointing out that I'll never write an app that 100 million people use anyway. Touch?, goddammit. Still, there's nothing better than that giddy high of self righteousness that only comes from embracing a particularly obscure technology. Where's *your* CouchDB t-shirt, loser. ----- "Feihong Hsu" wrote: > Chris, > > Amazon handles relational databases just fine. You only give up SQL > if you decide to use their SimpleDb service. Within your EC2 > instance, you can install whatever database you like. > > --- Chris McAvoy wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Ian Bicking > > wrote: > > > > > > Not I. I got an enigmatic invitation to the announcement, but > > lacking > > > any context I didn't pay much attention to it. > > > > Enigmatic invites are cooler than straight up invites. Congrats on > > the virtual backpat from the Uncle Goog. > > > > > I'm pretty stoked, though. Python can finally take on PHP -- a > > far more > > > worthy competitor than stupid Java. > > > > Indeed. It's a pretty exciting time. I'm still not entirely sure > > what to make of the new sql-free-stack that Amazon and Google are > > buying into. It makes me nervous. LAMP, in all it's wondrous > > forms > > has been such a rock in my web-life for the past few years, that > > this > > new PARADIGM sort of makes me wet my pants. > > > > If the future is schema-lite db's, cloud controllers and sandboxes, > > I'm ok with it...but someone is going to have to hold my hand. And > > get me clean underpants. > > > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From john at phaedrusdeinus.org Tue Apr 8 23:40:23 2008 From: john at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:40:23 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com> <981128.13410.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Apr 8, 2008, at 3:14 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Feihong Hsu > wrote: >> Amazon handles relational databases just fine. > > Sort of, it's just not persistent. If you shut down your instance, > you lose your data. Unless there's something new I haven't heard of. Not from Amazon, but there are third-party efforts out there, notably PersistentFS: http://www.persistentfs.com/ which builds a persistent filesystem for EC2 on top of S3. Also on the EC2 front, there's Scalr, a transparent scaling system on top of EC2: http://code.google.com/p/scalr/ Between the two of those, Amazon's platform becomes much more high- level. -johnnnnnnnn From shekay at pobox.com Tue Apr 8 23:51:45 2008 From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:51:45 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: <3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu> References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> <3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: Let's record the show. We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic? On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote: > You got the big lab on the lobby. 7-10pm. Tuesday April 15. > > Massimo > > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote: > > > > > The majority have spoken in preference of this coming tuesday, and > > nobody's given any alternative plans for thursday. I don't have any > > authority status in the group, but if I did I'd say that it's end of > > discussion, we're going with Tuesday. > > > > In fact, I just did say it anyway. So there. :) > > > > > > Massimo Di Pierro writes: > > > >> I need to know soon in order to reserve a place. I think I have one > >> but the sooner we confirm the better. > >> > >> Massimo > >> > >> On Apr 8, 2008, at 7:35 AM, Feihong Hsu wrote: > >> > >>> So is it Thursday (Apr 10) or Tuesday (Apr 15)? We need to update > >>> the > >>> wiki soon. > >>> > >>> Personally, I favor sticking to routine and making it this Thursday. > >>> But that's only because I'm out of town next Tuesday. > >>> > >>> - Feihong > >>> > >>> > >>> --- sheila miguez wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brian Ray wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Apr 2, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Massimo Di Pierro > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> I can host on April 15. Whether you want o hear about web2py > >>>> again, I > >>>>>>> let you decide. Hosting is not conditional to that. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> +1 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Usually, I am pretty hard-set on never changing the meeting day. > >>>> But, > >>>>> I feel a little wacky today, here is my choice: > >>>>> > >>>>> +1 for April 15th at Depaul > >>>>> > >>>>> But, we *must* get back into a routine soon. Otherwise, we may > >>>> fall > >>>>> victim of being labeled as even more void of leadership than we > >>>>> already have proactively taken the initiative to labeled > >>>> ourselves. > >>>> > >>>> really truly truly tuesday? > >>>> > >>>> *ponders updating wiki* > >>>> > >>>>> I do not know what the third thing should be, perhaps we should > >>>> have a > >>>>> group presentation by the ChiPy-netflix-swim-suit-calendar-fund- > >>>>> raising team? > >>>> > >>>> or > >>>> > >>>> what I did on my sum^H^H^H pycon sprint > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> sheila > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Chicago mailing list > >>>> Chicago at python.org > >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>> __ > >>> ______________ > >>> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > >>> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > >>> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chicago mailing list > >>> Chicago at python.org > >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago mailing list > >> Chicago at python.org > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -- sheila From cstejerean at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 23:53:18 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:53:18 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) Message-ID: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate with you on an application. I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default). I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other suggestions or ideas for the project. -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com PS. Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc. http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html From garrett at mojave-corp.com Wed Apr 9 00:02:46 2008 From: garrett at mojave-corp.com (Garrett Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:02:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30655970.228101207692166295.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> I'd be very interested in helping. The Metra application sounds like a great idea. I'm still looking up the schedules using the damn PDF scans they post on their crappy web site (apologies to the Metra site developers, if they happen to be on this list...I'm sure it has something to do with budget cutbacks.) ----- "Cosmin Stejerean" wrote: > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to > collaborate > with you on an application. > > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default). > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other > suggestions or ideas for the project. > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > > PS. > > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc. > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago From kboers at leapfrogonline.com Wed Apr 9 00:21:58 2008 From: kboers at leapfrogonline.com (Kevin Boers) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:21:58 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com> Cosmin, This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out! As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an invite my way, that'd be awesome. Cheers, Kevin On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate > with you on an application. > > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default). > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other > suggestions or ideas for the project. > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > > PS. > > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc. > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago Kevin Boers Quality Assurance Manager Leapfrog Online 807 Greenwood Street Evanston, IL 60201 Tel. 847-440-8381 kboers at leapfrogonline.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080408/c6c12654/attachment.htm From maney at two14.net Wed Apr 9 00:45:48 2008 From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:45:48 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu> <6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com> <3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu> Message-ID: <20080408224548.GA27871@furrr.two14.net> On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 04:51:45PM -0500, sheila miguez wrote: > Let's record the show. > > We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic? Didn't Carl have at least one of each surgically implanted for PyCon? Ted, we may need more of those power strips... -- An education that does not teach clear, coherent writing cannot provide our world with thoughtful adults; it gives us instead, at the best, clever children of all ages. -- Richard Mitchell From cstejerean at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 00:58:06 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:58:06 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) In-Reply-To: <1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com> References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> <1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com> Message-ID: <276266d0804081558qdf1a61j7484c94e79411967@mail.gmail.com> Great, you should have an invite (I assume your LFO email is fine). - Cosmin On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Kevin Boers wrote: > Cosmin, > > This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out! > > As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an > invite my way, that'd be awesome. > > Cheers, > Kevin > > > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > > > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate > with you on an application. > > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default). > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other > suggestions or ideas for the project. > > -- > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > > PS. > > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc. > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > Kevin Boers > Quality Assurance Manager > > Leapfrog Online > 807 Greenwood Street > Evanston, IL 60201 > Tel. 847-440-8381 > kboers at leapfrogonline.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com From cstejerean at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 01:04:00 2008 From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:04:00 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081558qdf1a61j7484c94e79411967@mail.gmail.com> References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> <1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com> <276266d0804081558qdf1a61j7484c94e79411967@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <276266d0804081604w6029f408ma76a7d642172d87f@mail.gmail.com> I created a public group http://groups.google.com/group/metratime Please join so we can start working on this. > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Kevin Boers wrote: > > Cosmin, > > > > This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out! > > > > As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an > > invite my way, that'd be awesome. > > > > Cheers, > > Kevin > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote: > > > > > > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate > > with you on an application. > > > > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the > > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter > > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a > > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me > > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default). > > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a > > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if > > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer > > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations > > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other > > suggestions or ideas for the project. > > > > -- > > Cosmin Stejerean > > http://blog.offbytwo.com > > > > PS. > > > > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict > > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible > > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use > > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc. > > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > Kevin Boers > > Quality Assurance Manager > > > > Leapfrog Online > > 807 Greenwood Street > > Evanston, IL 60201 > > Tel. 847-440-8381 > > kboers at leapfrogonline.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago mailing list > > Chicago at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cosmin Stejerean > http://blog.offbytwo.com > -- Cosmin Stejerean http://blog.offbytwo.com From dbt at meat.net Wed Apr 9 00:45:31 2008 From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:45:31 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier) In-Reply-To: <30655970.228101207692166295.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com> <30655970.228101207692166295.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info> Message-ID: <20080408224531.GD23287@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org> I've parsed the text schedule in the past*, it's just 
 tags, column
aligned, pretty mechanical.

* - I could find the java... eww... 

On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 05:02:46PM -0500, Garrett Smith wrote:
> I'd be very interested in helping. The Metra application sounds like a great idea. I'm still looking up the schedules using the damn PDF scans they post on their crappy web site (apologies to the Metra site developers, if they happen to be on this list...I'm sure it has something to do with budget cutbacks.)
> 
> 
> ----- "Cosmin Stejerean"  wrote:
> 
> > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to
> > collaborate
> > with you on an application.
> > 
> > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
> > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
> > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
> > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
> > suggestions or ideas for the project.
> > 
> > --
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > 
> > PS.
> > 
> > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
> > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
> > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 01:26:43 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:26:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: 


On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:

> Let's record the show.
>
> We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
>

I plan on recording the meeting again.


Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 01:58:30 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:58:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>
>  On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
>
>  > Let's record the show.
>  >
>  > We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
>  >
>
>  I plan on recording the meeting again.

Is that a yes for a camera and for a mic?



-- 
sheila

From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 02:30:18 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:30:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 


On Apr 8, 2008, at 6:58 PM, sheila miguez wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>
>>> Let's record the show.
>>>
>>> We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
>>>
>>
>> I plan on recording the meeting again.
>
> Is that a yes for a camera and for a mic?


Unless something comes up, yes.

There is a mic build into the camera. Its not professional PyCon level  
equipment but its HD. Also, I am not a professional videographer.   
Nonetheless, I do not mind recording the meetings and posting them on  
the internet.

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Wed Apr  9 02:32:16 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:32:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081604w6029f408ma76a7d642172d87f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	<276266d0804081558qdf1a61j7484c94e79411967@mail.gmail.com>
	<276266d0804081604w6029f408ma76a7d642172d87f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207701136.13588.0.camel@dresser>

I joined because this is an awesome project. !!!! I am eager to
contribute and learn.

-Tom



On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 18:04 -0500, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> I created a public group http://groups.google.com/group/metratime
> Please join so we can start working on this.
> 
> >
> >  On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Kevin Boers  wrote:
> >  >  Cosmin,
> >  >
> >  > This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out!
> >  >
> >  > As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an
> >  > invite my way, that'd be awesome.
> >  >
> >  > Cheers,
> >  > Kevin
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate
> >  > with you on an application.
> >  >
> >  > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> >  > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> >  > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> >  > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> >  > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> >  > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> >  > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
> >  > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
> >  > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
> >  > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
> >  > suggestions or ideas for the project.
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > Cosmin Stejerean
> >  > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >  >
> >  > PS.
> >  >
> >  > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> >  > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
> >  > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
> >  > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> >  > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Chicago mailing list
> >  > Chicago at python.org
> >  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >  >
> >  > Kevin Boers
> >  > Quality Assurance Manager
> >  >
> >  > Leapfrog Online
> >  > 807 Greenwood Street
> >  > Evanston, IL 60201
> >  > Tel. 847-440-8381
> >  > kboers at leapfrogonline.com
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  >  Chicago mailing list
> >  >  Chicago at python.org
> >  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >
> >
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> >  http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >
> 
> 
> 


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 07:49:18 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:49:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

The database is rather small and it was not such a difficult project  
using web2py (99 lines of code) so I just made it.
Turns out the use of SQL IN and LIKE operators are crucial for this  
project and they are not supported by google appengine.
You should pick another project for that purpose.

Anyway, you can try it here

     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule

I did not try to fix the typos in the town names as they appear on  
their online schedule. It is a bit slow because I have not yet  
created the db indices.
Do you think Metra may want to buy it? You got the idea, so you get 20%.

Massimo

On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate
> with you on an application.
>
> I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
> you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
> to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
> left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
> suggestions or ideas for the project.
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>
> PS.
>
> Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
> to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
> only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 08:01:06 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 01:01:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] flourish rumble
Message-ID: <5E250353-D3C0-4EC9-A84C-951E5ABE2BF2@cs.depaul.edu>

BTW, web2py participated to the Flourish 2008 web framework Rumble.  
Four people picked up the rules but there was no official  
determination of the participants and nobody else delivered a project  
so, I am told, web2py won. Too bad because it would have been fun to  
see the outcome and compare projects.
Anyway, the rules stated one had to develop a survey app (like survey  
monkey but better) in 24 hours. The video below shows what was made  
with web2py in 24 hours:

     http://www.vimeo.com/876779

you can also try it here as Guest

     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/SurveyRumble

Massimo

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr  9 09:20:12 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:20:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>			
	
Message-ID: <47FC6E2C.2090801@personnelware.com>

Brian Ray wrote:
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 6:58 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>>> On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's record the show.
>>>>
>>>> We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
>>>>
>>> I plan on recording the meeting again.
>> Is that a yes for a camera and for a mic?
> 
> 
> Unless something comes up, yes.
> 
> There is a mic build into the camera. Its not professional PyCon level  
> equipment but its HD. Also, I am not a professional videographer.   
> Nonetheless, I do not mind recording the meetings and posting them on  
> the internet.


I have a few (8 I think) DV tapes that have 2 or 3 pycon tutorials recorded in
HD, but I don't have any way to get it to disk.  If I give you tapes and an
external drive, you mind dumping them for me?

8 tapes is 8 hours, which is annoying, even if you just do one per night. (at
least it is doable.  at one point I was looking at 70 hours.  yay for donated
camera time, macs and people to shuffle tapes.)   So if anyone else has an HD
camera and wants to do a few, splitting up the job would be nice.

Carl K


From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr  9 09:28:03 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:28:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>			
	
Message-ID: <47FC7003.4080600@personnelware.com>

Brian Ray wrote:
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 6:58 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>>> On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's record the show.
>>>>
>>>> We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
>>>>
>>> I plan on recording the meeting again.
>> Is that a yes for a camera and for a mic?
> 
> 
> Unless something comes up, yes.
> 
> There is a mic build into the camera. Its not professional PyCon level  
> equipment but its HD. Also, I am not a professional videographer.   
> Nonetheless, I do not mind recording the meetings and posting them on  
> the internet.


I have a few (8 I think) DV tapes that have 2 or 3 pycon tutorials recorded in 
HD, but I don't have any way to get it to disk.  If I give you tapes and an 
external drive, you mind dumping them for me?

8 tapes is 8 hours, which is annoying, even if you just do one per night. (at 
least it is doable.  at one point I was looking at 70 hours.  yay for donated 
camera time, macs and people to shuffle tapes.)   So if anyone else has an HD 
camera and wants to do a few, splitting up the job would be nice.

Carl K

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 10:03:46 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 03:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>

When I wrote the email to the group today I had a feeling you're going
to just magically write the whole thing in a few hours :)
It's definitely a step in the right direction, and while quite
different from what I envision I will certainly use this until I get
something working myself (it's way better than the current metra
interface). Any chance you'd like to share a dump of your database
(and save me the hassle of parsing their website)?

- Cosmin

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> The database is rather small and it was not such a difficult project
>  using web2py (99 lines of code) so I just made it.
>  Turns out the use of SQL IN and LIKE operators are crucial for this
>  project and they are not supported by google appengine.
>  You should pick another project for that purpose.
>
>  Anyway, you can try it here
>
>      https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule
>
>  I did not try to fix the typos in the town names as they appear on
>  their online schedule. It is a bit slow because I have not yet
>  created the db indices.
>  Do you think Metra may want to buy it? You got the idea, so you get 20%.
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>  On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate
>  > with you on an application.
>  >
>  > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
>  > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
>  > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
>  > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
>  > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
>  > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
>  > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
>  > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
>  > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
>  > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
>  > suggestions or ideas for the project.
>  >
>  > --
>  > Cosmin Stejerean
>  > http://blog.offbytwo.com
>  >
>  > PS.
>  >
>  > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
>  > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
>  > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
>  > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
>  > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 14:31:56 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:31:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: 
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:

>  There is a mic build into the camera. Its not professional PyCon level
>  equipment but its HD. Also, I am not a professional videographer.
>  Nonetheless, I do not mind recording the meetings and posting them on
>  the internet.

I don't know if any of us are pros. Anyway, I was thinking of bringing
one of the pycon vga2usb recorders but only if we had the camera to go
with it.

I was thinking of asking the PSF if we could send out the capture
devices to user groups for the year until next pycon though I am not
sure the logistics would work out. I asked if chipy could use one and
got an okay on that.

-- 
sheila

From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 15:59:24 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <47FC6E2C.2090801@personnelware.com>
References: <149211.16534.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FDEC4F-CCA3-4933-B22B-5A71379742DF@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6y3apwxp4o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<3DFEF95D-D979-4469-88D7-1D32A1032DB9@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	
	
	<47FC6E2C.2090801@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <1207749564.12739.1246942503@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:20:12 -0500, "Carl Karsten"
 said:
> Brian Ray wrote:
> > On Apr 8, 2008, at 6:58 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
> >>> On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:51 PM, sheila miguez wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Let's record the show.
> >>>>
> >>>> We have a projector. Do we have a camera and mic?
> >>>>
> >>> I plan on recording the meeting again.
> >> Is that a yes for a camera and for a mic?
> > 
> > 
> > Unless something comes up, yes.
> > 
> > There is a mic build into the camera. Its not professional PyCon level  
> > equipment but its HD. Also, I am not a professional videographer.   
> > Nonetheless, I do not mind recording the meetings and posting them on  
> > the internet.
> 
> 
> I have a few (8 I think) DV tapes that have 2 or 3 pycon tutorials
> recorded in
> HD, but I don't have any way to get it to disk.  If I give you tapes and
> an
> external drive, you mind dumping them for me?
> 
> 8 tapes is 8 hours, which is annoying, even if you just do one per night.
> (at
> least it is doable.  at one point I was looking at 70 hours.  yay for
> donated
> camera time, macs and people to shuffle tapes.)   So if anyone else has
> an HD
> camera and wants to do a few, splitting up the job would be nice.
> 

I am sure we can work something out. Let talks more before or after the
ChiPy Meeting Tuesday.

-- Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 16:50:11 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:50:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
Message-ID: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>

There is a special schedule this month and some lateness in getting the
details together. Perhaps this was a result of PyCon / Flourish after
shock. Regardless the reason, we *will* have the best meeting ever this
month.

Here is a draft of the announcement:

 

Please review and post any comments by EOD (5pm) today. I plan on
sending this to several mailing lists this evening.

Kind Regards and thanks for everyone's patience, Brian



From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 17:08:22 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:08:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:50 AM,   wrote:
>
>  Here is a draft of the announcement:
>
>   
>
>  Please review and post any comments by EOD (5pm) today.

My name is on there but I don't think I have anything interesting to
present about frame hacks.  I can, however, heckle Ian (he seems to
like that).

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 17:14:42 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:14:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	
Message-ID: <3096c19d0804090814y15a4634dvd4da774b979109d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Kumar McMillan
 wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:50 AM,   wrote:
>  >
>  >  Here is a draft of the announcement:
>  >
>  >   
>  >
>  >  Please review and post any comments by EOD (5pm) today.
>
>  My name is on there but I don't think I have anything interesting to
>  present about frame hacks.  I can, however, heckle Ian (he seems to
>  like that).

Did you mean tickle?

>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 17:26:01 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:26:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804090814y15a4634dvd4da774b979109d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	
	<3096c19d0804090814y15a4634dvd4da774b979109d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Chris McAvoy  wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Kumar McMillan
>   wrote:
>  > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:50 AM,   wrote:
>  >  >
>  >  >  Here is a draft of the announcement:
>  >  >
>  >  >   
>  >  >
>  >  >  Please review and post any comments by EOD (5pm) today.
>  >
>  >  My name is on there but I don't think I have anything interesting to
>  >  present about frame hacks.  I can, however, heckle Ian (he seems to
>  >  like that).
>
>  Did you mean tickle?

Do you see TCL in the title here?!

Is this the chTCL group?  NO. It is the chiPY group!




Ps. you guys know how tcl is pronounced right?.

-- 
sheila

From pfein at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 17:44:50 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:44:50 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered
In-Reply-To: <15776946.216791207686911407.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info>
References: <15776946.216791207686911407.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info>
Message-ID: <5469BBA6-ED36-4D7C-AAB3-64AC9B01D63B@pobox.com>


On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:35 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>
> Google's restricting data persistence because they need to replicate  
> across servers in multiple locations. All of the distributed  
> databases I've seen (Couch, Mnesia, SimpleDB) compromise consistency  
> at some level to support distributed, non-blocking writes. If you  
> want to avoid the availability and scale problems of a single master/ 
> slave cluster, you'll need to venture out into the wilderness of  
> these strange data stores.

Another one to add to your list is my project GrassyKnoll: http://grassyknoll.googlecode.com

It's got a very similar model to the above.  It's distinguished by:

  * Python, Python, Python!
  * open source
  * choice of persistence layer - lucene, sqlite, gdbm, memcached, S3,  
metakit
  * JSON
  * RESTful HTTP throughout - the same code is used for client/server  
& internal replication
  * younger and needing assistance
  * did I mention Python?

> Where's *your* CouchDB t-shirt, loser.

New policy: All GrassyKnoll contributors get a free t-shirt!*

--Pete

* T-shirts may or may not: mention GrassyKnoll, be the correct size,  
or be clean.

-- 
Pete
pfein at pobox.com





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr  9 18:13:33 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:13:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>

bray at sent.com wrote:
> There is a special schedule this month and some lateness in getting the
> details together. Perhaps this was a result of PyCon / Flourish after
> shock. Regardless the reason, we *will* have the best meeting ever this
> month.
> 
> Here is a draft of the announcement:
> 
>  
> 
> Please review and post any comments by EOD (5pm) today. I plan on
> sending this to several mailing lists this evening.
> 
> Kind Regards and thanks for everyone's patience, Brian

Due to App Engine, which I've been spending all my free time on, I 
probably won't get together any frame hacks.  But I could talk about 
what I've found about the product.

   Ian

From web at holovaty.com  Wed Apr  9 18:27:45 2008
From: web at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:27:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Tom Printy  wrote:
> Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the
>  talk?

Hey, that's my library and was my talk. Note that the current version
of templatemaker (on Google Code) is pretty "dumb" when dealing with
HTML.

Since that talk, I've developed a new one, based on lxml, that
analyzes differences in the HTML trees. It's a *lot* better (I'd even
call it *awesome*), but I haven't released it open-source yet. Stay
tuned.

Adrian

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 18:31:23 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:31:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>

Let me think about this for one week.

After being the only one who the spent the night working on the  
flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing  
pro bono work.

One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using  
web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to  
appengine).

Massimo

On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:03 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> When I wrote the email to the group today I had a feeling you're going
> to just magically write the whole thing in a few hours :)
> It's definitely a step in the right direction, and while quite
> different from what I envision I will certainly use this until I get
> something working myself (it's way better than the current metra
> interface). Any chance you'd like to share a dump of your database
> (and save me the hassle of parsing their website)?
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> The database is rather small and it was not such a difficult project
>>  using web2py (99 lines of code) so I just made it.
>>  Turns out the use of SQL IN and LIKE operators are crucial for this
>>  project and they are not supported by google appengine.
>>  You should pick another project for that purpose.
>>
>>  Anyway, you can try it here
>>
>>      https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule
>>
>>  I did not try to fix the typos in the town names as they appear on
>>  their online schedule. It is a bit slow because I have not yet
>>  created the db indices.
>>  Do you think Metra may want to buy it? You got the idea, so you  
>> get 20%.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>
>>
>>  On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to  
>>> collaborate
>>> with you on an application.
>>>
>>> I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
>>> Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
>>> integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
>>> smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
>>> upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
>>> I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
>>> perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
>>> you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
>>> to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub  
>>> invitations
>>> left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any  
>>> other
>>> suggestions or ideas for the project.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>>
>>> PS.
>>>
>>> Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
>>> authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
>>> to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal  
>>> use
>>> only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
>>> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 19:08:30 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

> Let me think about this for one week.
>
> After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
> flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing
> pro bono work.
>
> One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
> web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to
> appengine).


Extorting people into getting them to use your framework now?


>
>
> Massimo
>
> On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:03 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
> > When I wrote the email to the group today I had a feeling you're going
> > to just magically write the whole thing in a few hours :)
> > It's definitely a step in the right direction, and while quite
> > different from what I envision I will certainly use this until I get
> > something working myself (it's way better than the current metra
> > interface). Any chance you'd like to share a dump of your database
> > (and save me the hassle of parsing their website)?
> >
> > - Cosmin
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
> >  wrote:
> >> The database is rather small and it was not such a difficult project
> >>  using web2py (99 lines of code) so I just made it.
> >>  Turns out the use of SQL IN and LIKE operators are crucial for this
> >>  project and they are not supported by google appengine.
> >>  You should pick another project for that purpose.
> >>
> >>  Anyway, you can try it here
> >>
> >>      https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule
> >>
> >>  I did not try to fix the typos in the town names as they appear on
> >>  their online schedule. It is a bit slow because I have not yet
> >>  created the db indices.
> >>  Do you think Metra may want to buy it? You got the idea, so you
> >> get 20%.
> >>
> >>  Massimo
> >>
> >>
> >>  On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to
> >>> collaborate
> >>> with you on an application.
> >>>
> >>> I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> >>> Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> >>> integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> >>> smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> >>> upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> >>> I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> >>> perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
> >>> you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
> >>> to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub
> >>> invitations
> >>> left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any
> >>> other
> >>> suggestions or ideas for the project.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cosmin Stejerean
> >>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >>>
> >>> PS.
> >>>
> >>> Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> >>> authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
> >>> to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal
> >>> use
> >>> only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> >>> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  Chicago mailing list
> >>  Chicago at python.org
> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 19:22:15 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:22:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:13:33 -0500, "Ian Bicking" 
said:
> Due to App Engine, which I've been spending all my free time on, I 
> probably won't get together any frame hacks.  But I could talk about 
> what I've found about the product.
> 

Revised:
  

Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some Frame
Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk manner.

-- Brian



From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 19:33:33 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:33:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>

 From wikipedia: "Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal  
offense, which occurs when a person either unlawfully obtains money,  
property or services from a person, entity, or institution through  
coercion or intimidation or threatens a person, entity, or  
institution with physical or reputational harm unless he is paid  
money or property."

Not giving you something that is mine for free is not the same as  
taking something that is yours.

I am just preventing people from using my work to promote other  
frameworks.

I am being protective.
You would be surprised by how much unfair opposition I am facing.
I made something, made it free, and people complain as if I had taken  
something from them.
I won the rumble and they have not even listed web2py as a  
participant. If a different framework had want it will be all over  
the places.
At PyCon I had to use the Open Space because my talk was rejected by  
4 reviewers on the basis "we do not need another framework".
I published on the top 4 refereed physics journals and I have never  
been rejected with an excuse so lame.
There is one guy that goes around posting blogs against web2py  
without ever giving a reason why
(I know who he is and I know he is upset I did not include his  
package, he not on this list).

On my side I am trying to be nice to everybody, just promoting my  
work, never denigrating other people's work.

Massimo

On Apr 9, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Adam Jenkins wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro  
>  wrote:
> Let me think about this for one week.
>
> After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
> flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing
> pro bono work.
>
> One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
> web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to
> appengine).
>
> Extorting people into getting them to use your framework now?
>
>
>
> Massimo
>
> On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:03 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
> > When I wrote the email to the group today I had a feeling you're  
> going
> > to just magically write the whole thing in a few hours :)
> > It's definitely a step in the right direction, and while quite
> > different from what I envision I will certainly use this until I get
> > something working myself (it's way better than the current metra
> > interface). Any chance you'd like to share a dump of your database
> > (and save me the hassle of parsing their website)?
> >
> > - Cosmin
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
> >  wrote:
> >> The database is rather small and it was not such a difficult  
> project
> >>  using web2py (99 lines of code) so I just made it.
> >>  Turns out the use of SQL IN and LIKE operators are crucial for  
> this
> >>  project and they are not supported by google appengine.
> >>  You should pick another project for that purpose.
> >>
> >>  Anyway, you can try it here
> >>
> >>      https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule
> >>
> >>  I did not try to fix the typos in the town names as they appear on
> >>  their online schedule. It is a bit slow because I have not yet
> >>  created the db indices.
> >>  Do you think Metra may want to buy it? You got the idea, so you
> >> get 20%.
> >>
> >>  Massimo
> >>
> >>
> >>  On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to
> >>> collaborate
> >>> with you on an application.
> >>>
> >>> I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> >>> Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> >>> integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> >>> smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> >>> upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> >>> I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> >>> perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me  
> know if
> >>> you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a  
> developer
> >>> to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub
> >>> invitations
> >>> left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any
> >>> other
> >>> suggestions or ideas for the project.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cosmin Stejerean
> >>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >>>
> >>> PS.
> >>>
> >>> Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> >>> authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is  
> possible
> >>> to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal
> >>> use
> >>> only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> >>> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  Chicago mailing list
> >>  Chicago at python.org
> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> 

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From richard.stack at sbcglobal.net  Wed Apr  9 05:32:18 2008
From: richard.stack at sbcglobal.net (Richard Stack)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:32:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
Message-ID: 

A great idea, but there's a neat opportunity here. A site called nextbus.com
will tell you when the next bus will arrive at your corner. It does this for
a number of cities/areas, including PACE. No integration that I know of with
the CTA or Metra, but busses have GPS.

 

  _____  

From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Boers
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)

 

Cosmin,

 

This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out!

 

As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an
invite my way, that'd be awesome.

 

Cheers,

Kevin

 

On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:





Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate

with you on an application.

 

I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the

Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter

integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a

smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me

upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).

I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a

perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if

you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer

to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations

left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other

suggestions or ideas for the project.

 

--

Cosmin Stejerean

http://blog.offbytwo.com

 

PS.

 

Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict

authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible

to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use

only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.

http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

 

Kevin Boers

Quality Assurance Manager

 

Leapfrog Online

807 Greenwood Street

Evanston, IL 60201

Tel. 847-440-8381

kboers at leapfrogonline.com

 

 





 

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From tim at gebhardtcomputing.com  Wed Apr  9 19:30:29 2008
From: tim at gebhardtcomputing.com (Tim Gebhardt)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:30:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0804080950lb81465ar3fb4d1e86315a3e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<981128.13410.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1ce3f61a0804091030p5a513f1enf234a97658f2a685@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Chris McAvoy  wrote:

> Sort of, it's just not persistent.  If you shut down your instance,
> you lose your data.  Unless there's something new I haven't heard of.
>
> Chris
>
One of the big guys on Slashdot addressed comments of a similar type about
EC2 here:

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=501678&cid=22883434

Basically, there's nothing stopping you from running a SQL server on your
instances, but if you're in the enterprise space with many customers you
shouldn't be hoping your single point of failure won't fail.  In this case,
just set up a cluster of databases and send your backups to Amazon S3 and
that's how you'd handle it in a regular data center if you owned the
physical servers.

It's not trivial (high availability never is, *sigh*), but if you are
running a single SQL server instance and your hardware fails your data's
gone anyway, whether or not your hardware is virtual or in meatspace, so
hopefully a solid backup solution is in place.

-Tim Gebhardt
tim at gebhardtcomputing.com
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From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 20:07:23 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    bray> Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some
    bray> Frame Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk manner.

What are "frame hacks"?  You web types speak a whole 'nuther language from
us normal folk. ;-)

Skip

From rick.flosi at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 20:10:52 2008
From: rick.flosi at gmail.com (Rick Flosi)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	
Message-ID: <863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>

CTA Launched there limited line Bus Tracker with mobile (I think txt msg and
web) interface on Monday: http://ctabustracker.com/bustime/home.jsp

I haven't tried it.

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Richard Stack 
wrote:

>  A great idea, but there's a neat opportunity here. A site called
> nextbus.com will tell you when the next bus will arrive at your corner. It
> does this for a number of cities/areas, including PACE. No integration that
> I know of with the CTA or Metra, but busses have GPS.
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin Boers
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
> *To:* The Chicago Python Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life
> easier)
>
>
>
> Cosmin,
>
>
>
> This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out!
>
>
>
> As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an
> invite my way, that'd be awesome.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>
>
>  Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate
>
> with you on an application.
>
>
>
> I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
>
> Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
>
> integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
>
> smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
>
> upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
>
> I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
>
> perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
>
> you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
>
> to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
>
> left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
>
> suggestions or ideas for the project.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cosmin Stejerean
>
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>
>
>
> PS.
>
>
>
> Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
>
> authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
>
> to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
>
> only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
>
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Chicago mailing list
>
> Chicago at python.org
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> *Kevin Boers*
>
> Quality Assurance Manager
>
>
>
> *Leapfrog Online*
>
> 807 Greenwood Street
>
> Evanston, IL 60201
>
> Tel. 847-440-8381
>
> kboers at leapfrogonline.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
http://rickflosi.blogspot.com/
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr  9 20:16:23 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:16:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <47FD07F7.1030704@colorstudy.com>

skip at pobox.com wrote:
>     bray> Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some
>     bray> Frame Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk manner.
> 
> What are "frame hacks"?  You web types speak a whole 'nuther language from
> us normal folk. ;-)

sys._getframe, I think.  The actual thing I had been thinking about was 
other hackery (bytecode decompiling).

   Ian

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 20:14:33 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:14:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:07 PM,   wrote:
>
>     bray> Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some
>     bray> Frame Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk manner.
>
>  What are "frame hacks"?  You web types speak a whole 'nuther language from
>  us normal folk. ;-)

Brian is referring to:
http://farmdev.com/src/secrets/framehack/index.html

From ken at stox.org  Wed Apr  9 20:15:23 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:15:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <1207764923.10311.53.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 12:33 -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> From wikipedia: "Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal
> offense, which occurs when a person either unlawfully obtains money,
> property or services from a person, entity, or institution through
> coercion or intimidation or threatens a person, entity, or institution
> with physical or reputational harm unless he is paid money or
> property."


Synonym - Any conversation with a politician. ;->


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 20:22:27 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:22:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <47FD07F7.1030704@colorstudy.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<47FD07F7.1030704@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <18429.2403.250017.271361@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> What are "frame hacks"?  You web types speak a whole 'nuther language
    >> from us normal folk. ;-)

    Ian> sys._getframe, I think.  The actual thing I had been thinking about
    Ian> was other hackery (bytecode decompiling).

Oh, *those* kind of frames.  I thought you were referring to the Netscape
kind of frames.  Carry on then...

Skip

From maney at two14.net  Wed Apr  9 20:22:37 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:22:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered
In-Reply-To: <5469BBA6-ED36-4D7C-AAB3-64AC9B01D63B@pobox.com>
References: <15776946.216791207686911407.JavaMail.root@noc-106.smedia.info>
	<5469BBA6-ED36-4D7C-AAB3-64AC9B01D63B@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20080409182237.GA30481@furrr.two14.net>

On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 11:44:50AM -0400, Pete wrote:
> New policy: All GrassyKnoll contributors get a free t-shirt!*
> 
> --Pete
> 
> * T-shirts may or may not: mention GrassyKnoll, be the correct size,  
> or be clean.

Ah, a policy pour encourager les autres.  Tres bien!

-- 
You know, if you were really going to starve, you'd be
justified in writing proprietary software. -- R M Stallman


From bray at sent.com  Wed Apr  9 20:26:56 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:26:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<18429.1499.44958.660128@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <1207765616.28524.1246994915@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:07:23 -0500, skip at pobox.com said:
> 
>     bray> Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some
>     bray> Frame Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk
>     manner.
> 
> What are "frame hacks"?  You web types speak a whole 'nuther language
> from us normal folk. ;-)
> 

This may be our own invention. Perhaps the terms source comes from going
down a call stack and modifying things, when possible. Or generally, it
seems to also mean Frame-work Hacks. For instance taking object code and
doing something not-traditionally done like reverse engineering. I do
not think its meant to be a best practice or serious topic. Moreso, it
may be educational and occasionally useful for some unusual situations.
Perhaps, we should give a do not try this at home disclaimer.

-- Brian Ray








From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 20:27:54 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:27:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <1207764923.10311.53.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
	<1207764923.10311.53.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: 

I see all countries have the same costumes. :-(

On Apr 9, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Kenneth P. Stox wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 12:33 -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> From wikipedia: "Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal
>> offense, which occurs when a person either unlawfully obtains money,
>> property or services from a person, entity, or institution through
>> coercion or intimidation or threatens a person, entity, or  
>> institution
>> with physical or reputational harm unless he is paid money or
>> property."
>
>
> Synonym - Any conversation with a politician. ;->
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 20:42:06 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:42:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804091142j603aa406v72a79790b7bb31fd@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro 
> wrote:
>
> > Let me think about this for one week.
> >
> > After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
> > flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing
> > pro bono work.
> >
> > One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
> > web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to
> > appengine).
>

I wasn't asking you to do any work pro bono, I was asking if you're
willing to share the results of work you've already done without
anyone asking. Parsing the data from HTML is about half hour worth of
work, so if you think I'm going to wait a week for you to make up your
mind and then be forced into using any particular framework you're
very mistaken.

I don't think you should actively try to ram your framework down the
throat of people that don't want to use it. As far as I'm concerned
you're going to have a tough time selling me on any framework where
development is done over the web, unless you also provide a web based
version of Emacs. Also, take a look at

web2py Enterprise Web Framework: Free and open source full-stack
enterprise framework for agile development of secure database-driven
web-based applications, written and programmable in Python.

Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and
rapid development.

Django: The web framework for perfectionists with deadlines

Based on that description alone, which framework do you think most
people would like to try? If I take out the filler words  (the "free
and open source", the "enterprise part", the "agile development" part
and the "database-driven" part) I'm left with:

full-stack framework for web applications written and programmable in
Python. (The last framework I remember mentioning full-stack in the
description is http://www.springframework.org/). Drop the pretentious
description and try something like "web2py: the easy to use web
framework". Oh, and the fact that your screen cast is not recording
the full screen and is following the cursor around makes it incredibly
distracting, you should consider redoing it.


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 20:47:45 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:47:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	
	<863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Rick Flosi  wrote:
> CTA Launched there limited line Bus Tracker with mobile (I think txt msg and
> web) interface on Monday: http://ctabustracker.com/bustime/home.jsp
>
> I haven't tried it.

it crashed my Firefox.  Nice!

From rick.flosi at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 20:51:59 2008
From: rick.flosi at gmail.com (Rick Flosi)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:51:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	
	<863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <863228a10804091151u1cd9cb01uc5888818bcc608b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Kumar McMillan 
wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Rick Flosi  wrote:
> > CTA Launched there limited line Bus Tracker with mobile (I think txt msg
> and
> > web) interface on Monday: http://ctabustracker.com/bustime/home.jsp
> >
> > I haven't tried it.
>
> it crashed my Firefox.  Nice!


So it is of the same quality of their buses then.
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From cwebber at imagescape.com  Wed Apr  9 21:14:55 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:14:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Congrats to Massimo Di Pierro
In-Reply-To: <1207466010.17981.106.camel@stox.dyndns.org> (Kenneth P. Stox's
	message of "Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:13:30 -0500")
References: <1207466010.17981.106.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <6ymyo2vo0g.fsf@imagescape.com>

Congrats to web2py and Massimo!  It was an ambitious project with an
ambitious deadline, and good to see that someone got their shit
together and finished in time (I didn't :P)

Also, is there anyplace where we can see the homeless shelter app?

"Kenneth P. Stox"  writes:

> For web2py and work on the Code for a Cause Hack-a-thon, at the Flourish
> conference, produced an application building an on-line map for locating
> Chicago homeless shelters and social service providers. Damn fine work
> in a amazingly short period of time. A great example of the power of
> Python, and I think he may have won many converts by that example. 
>
> We've got some incredible coders in this town. 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Wed Apr  9 21:23:11 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:23:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: 
	(Adrian Holovaty's message of "Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:27:45 -0500")
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
	
Message-ID: <6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>

It sounds interesting.  I'm interested in seeing the technical reasons
for the change to lxml, and possibly how that benefitted you.  Maybe
do another talk (or at least a lightning talk) at another ChiPy
meeting once you're ready to open it?

"Adrian Holovaty"  writes:

> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Tom Printy  wrote:
>> Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the
>>  talk?
>
> Hey, that's my library and was my talk. Note that the current version
> of templatemaker (on Google Code) is pretty "dumb" when dealing with
> HTML.
>
> Since that talk, I've developed a new one, based on lxml, that
> analyzes differences in the HTML trees. It's a *lot* better (I'd even
> call it *awesome*), but I haven't released it open-source yet. Stay
> tuned.
>
> Adrian
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 21:26:52 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:26:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Congrats to Massimo Di Pierro
In-Reply-To: <6ymyo2vo0g.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <1207466010.17981.106.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
	<6ymyo2vo0g.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: 

Thank you Allan and thank you for being there.

On Apr 9, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:

> Congrats to web2py and Massimo!  It was an ambitious project with an
> ambitious deadline, and good to see that someone got their shit
> together and finished in time (I didn't :P)
>
> Also, is there anyplace where we can see the homeless shelter app?
>
> "Kenneth P. Stox"  writes:
>
>> For web2py and work on the Code for a Cause Hack-a-thon, at the  
>> Flourish
>> conference, produced an application building an on-line map for  
>> locating
>> Chicago homeless shelters and social service providers. Damn fine  
>> work
>> in a amazingly short period of time. A great example of the power of
>> Python, and I think he may have won many converts by that example.
>>
>> We've got some incredible coders in this town.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From tcp at mac.com  Wed Apr  9 21:26:50 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:26:50 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	
	<863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 


On Apr 9, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Rick Flosi   
> wrote:
>> CTA Launched there limited line Bus Tracker with mobile (I think  
>> txt msg and
>> web) interface on Monday: http://ctabustracker.com/bustime/home.jsp
>>
>> I haven't tried it.
>
> it crashed my Firefox.  Nice!

You got off easy... it sank my battleship!

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From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 18:52:39 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:52:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

I think the odds of getting money directly out of Metra prior to
launch are perhaps infinitesimal or less, but I could imagine such a
site run independently getting a few bucks from advertising. Your main
risk to that approach is that they would change the formatting of
their schedule, possibly even just to be contentious about it, and
you'd have to rewrite your parser.

The Metra schedules are indeed a classic  of inhumane interface
design. Tufte himself has something to say about train schedules in
one of his books.

mt

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 21:38:01 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:38:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] April Meeting Notice Draft
In-Reply-To: <1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0804091238h5854c683xbd7457025b4ed41a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:22 PM,   wrote:
>
>  On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:13:33 -0500, "Ian Bicking" 
>  said:
>
> > Due to App Engine, which I've been spending all my free time on, I
>  > probably won't get together any frame hacks.  But I could talk about
>  > what I've found about the product.
>  >
>
>  Revised:
>
>   
>
>  Ian will overview App Engine. If we have time, lets share some Frame
>  Hacks in a casual random non-sponser lighting talk manner.

I can add a few minutes on Django on AppEngine if Ian doesn't cover it
specifically.

Chris

From matt at datawaslost.net  Wed Apr  9 21:46:58 2008
From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:46:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804091238h5854c683xbd7457025b4ed41a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<3096c19d0804091238h5854c683xbd7457025b4ed41a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04FDEF57-6D7F-4388-B8C8-6AEC0E95BF3D@datawaslost.net>

http://www.joyeur.com/2008/04/09/joyents-garden-of-eden-for-python-web-applications

interesting. trade it all for just a little bit more.


matt

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr  9 21:47:43 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:47:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804091142j603aa406v72a79790b7bb31fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804091142j603aa406v72a79790b7bb31fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E89681E-E711-4EC5-9D9A-F45F312A693B@cs.depaul.edu>

Hi Cosmin,

Hope I did not do or say anything to get you upset. You are the last  
person I want to upset. If I did I apologize.
You are an excellent programmer and I am sure you can parse those  
page in one hour. I never said or implied otherwise.
Let's take this offline.

What you say below seems to imply you need the web based  
administrative interface to develop with web2py. No. That's an  
additional layer on top. You can use it like Django with a shell and  
email. Here is a video on how to use the shell and emacs.

    http://www.vimeo.com/879939

I know the quality of my videos is bad I am not good at that and I do  
not have time to do better.

Moreover this is the Rails tagline: "Rails is a full-stack framework  
for developing database-backed web applications according to the  
Model-View-Control pattern."
I tried to mimic that without copying. The line you suggested does  
would not make justice to all the stuff in web2py.

Massimo

On Apr 9, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro  
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me think about this for one week.
>>>
>>> After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
>>> flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing
>>> pro bono work.
>>>
>>> One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
>>> web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to
>>> appengine).
>>
>
> I wasn't asking you to do any work pro bono, I was asking if you're
> willing to share the results of work you've already done without
> anyone asking. Parsing the data from HTML is about half hour worth of
> work, so if you think I'm going to wait a week for you to make up your
> mind and then be forced into using any particular framework you're
> very mistaken.
>
> I don't think you should actively try to ram your framework down the
> throat of people that don't want to use it. As far as I'm concerned
> you're going to have a tough time selling me on any framework where
> development is done over the web, unless you also provide a web based
> version of Emacs. Also, take a look at
>
> web2py Enterprise Web Framework: Free and open source full-stack
> enterprise framework for agile development of secure database-driven
> web-based applications, written and programmable in Python.
>
> Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and
> rapid development.
>
> Django: The web framework for perfectionists with deadlines
>
> Based on that description alone, which framework do you think most
> people would like to try? If I take out the filler words  (the "free
> and open source", the "enterprise part", the "agile development" part
> and the "database-driven" part) I'm left with:
>
> full-stack framework for web applications written and programmable in
> Python. (The last framework I remember mentioning full-stack in the
> description is http://www.springframework.org/). Drop the pretentious
> description and try something like "web2py: the easy to use web
> framework". Oh, and the fact that your screen cast is not recording
> the full screen and is following the cursor around makes it incredibly
> distracting, you should consider redoing it.
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 21:59:11 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:59:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <04FDEF57-6D7F-4388-B8C8-6AEC0E95BF3D@datawaslost.net>
References: <1207752611.21420.1246952833@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<47FCEB2D.5050800@colorstudy.com>
	<1207761735.17355.1246984149@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<3096c19d0804091238h5854c683xbd7457025b4ed41a@mail.gmail.com>
	<04FDEF57-6D7F-4388-B8C8-6AEC0E95BF3D@datawaslost.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Matt Dennewitz  wrote:
> http://www.joyeur.com/2008/04/09/joyents-garden-of-eden-for-python-web-applications

"Think of Joyent's Garden of Eden as graduate school. Or the 'real world'."

hmm, those two statements are not equivalent.

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Apr  9 22:07:54 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:07:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: <18429.8730.858536.828659@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Michael> The Metra schedules are indeed a classic of inhumane interface
    Michael> design. Tufte himself has something to say about train
    Michael> schedules in one of his books.

Yes, wasn't that the Paris Metro schedule?  Oh, wait, it was the London
Underground:

    http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00005W

In contrast, here's the Paris Metro map, circa 1937:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060422025243/http://www.egadd.org/parismetro1937.jpg

Skip

From mtobis at gmail.com  Wed Apr  9 22:26:37 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <18429.8730.858536.828659@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	<18429.8730.858536.828659@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: 

I was thinking of this thing:

http://radnauseam.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/mareytrain.gif

Can't find it on Tufte's site. It's arguably (and Tufte so argues)
much easier to read than the equivalent grid would be.

mt

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:07 PM,   wrote:
>
>     Michael> The Metra schedules are indeed a classic of inhumane interface
>     Michael> design. Tufte himself has something to say about train
>     Michael> schedules in one of his books.
>
>  Yes, wasn't that the Paris Metro schedule?  Oh, wait, it was the London
>  Underground:
>
>     http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00005W
>
>  In contrast, here's the Paris Metro map, circa 1937:
>
>     http://web.archive.org/web/20060422025243/http://www.egadd.org/parismetro1937.jpg
>
>  Skip
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  9 23:52:01 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
Message-ID: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't ride Metra anymore so I don't have much motivation to help
with Cosmin's Metra Schedule App. However, I happened to have some
free time on my hands (I'm unemployed), so I thought it might be fun
to make a rudimentary parser. Surprisingly, I hardly did any real
HTML parsing, since Metra's pages actually use PRE tags instead of
TABLE tags to display the tabular parts. So it devolved into typical
regex hacking.

The following code should not be construed as a complete solution.
All it does is parse the text inside the 3 PRE tags and put the data
into a single 2D matrix. I also included a small function that
creates an HTML table out of the data. I only tested my code on a
single page so far, but I think all the schedule pages are pretty
much the same. Basically, you can use this as a starting point.

P.S. You need lxml to run the code.

------------------------------------------------------------
import re
import lxml.html as lh

def get_rows(tree):
    texts = [n.text_content() for n in tree.xpath('//pre')]

    trainNumRow = [' ']
    ampmRow = [' ']
    timeRows = []   # list of lists
    
    for i, text in enumerate(texts):
        lines = [line for line in text.split('\n')
                 if line.strip()]

        trainNums = lines[0].split()
        trainNumRow += trainNums
        ampmRow += lines[1].split()

        for j, line in enumerate(lines[2:]):
            matches = [m for m in re.finditer(r"x?\d+\:\d+|.---|\|",
line)]
            if len(matches) != len(trainNums):
                break

            pos = matches[0].start()
            town = line[:pos].strip()
            times = [m.group() for m in matches]

            if j >= len(timeRows):
                timeRows.append([])

            timeRows[j] += [town]+times if i==0 else times

    yield trainNumRow
    yield ampmRow
    for row in timeRows:
        yield row

def make_table_file(filename, rows):
    import codecs
    fout = codecs.open(filename, 'w', 'utf-8')
    fout.write('')
    for row in rows:
        fout.write('')
        for v in row:
            if v.endswith('---'):   # get rid of the stupid \x97 char
                v = '----'
            fout.write('' % v)
        fout.write('')
    fout.write('
%s
')
    fout.close()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    tree = lh.parse('test.html')
    rows = get_rows(tree)
    make_table_file('table.html', rows)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Apr 10 00:18:58 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:18:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
	
	<6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>

I posted my toy screen scraper on

    http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/scraper.py

There seem to be a lot of expertise on the list on this topic so  
perhaps you can help make it better or just use it to make your  
better. Currently it scrapes correctly wikipedia page given two  
examples, extracts all repeated tags, removes all text and replaces  
it with "text", finds all link and it handles javascript properly.

It uses the LCS applied to symbols (tags) instead of character.  
Something I suggested when Adrian gave us an excellent presentation  
on this topic.

What's missing:
1) after it finds all links, which it does (except for links in css  
and javascript) it should loop over then, download the images, rename  
them and rename the links.
2) It may introduce some spurious close tags. They have to be removed.

Eventually I would like to add a button to the web2py admin interface  
that says: "make my app look like that one" and it will scrape the  
other one, download images and build a new web2py template. I am  
close but I could use some help.

Massimo

On Apr 9, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:

> It sounds interesting.  I'm interested in seeing the technical reasons
> for the change to lxml, and possibly how that benefitted you.  Maybe
> do another talk (or at least a lightning talk) at another ChiPy
> meeting once you're ready to open it?
>
> "Adrian Holovaty"  writes:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Tom Printy  
>>  wrote:
>>> Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the
>>>  talk?
>>
>> Hey, that's my library and was my talk. Note that the current version
>> of templatemaker (on Google Code) is pretty "dumb" when dealing with
>> HTML.
>>
>> Since that talk, I've developed a new one, based on lxml, that
>> analyzes differences in the HTML trees. It's a *lot* better (I'd even
>> call it *awesome*), but I haven't released it open-source yet. Stay
>> tuned.
>>
>> Adrian
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 00:23:00 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:23:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. I added your code to
http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/commit/60a7723281c98a5297b31222493bf2e9a8bf10e4
This should work for most pages - as far as I remember there was a
single page in the schedule that had some odd exception to it
(something like an HTML comment in the middle of the schedule). But
last time I looked at it was probably a year ago so it might have
changed.

I'll try to get all the data parsed out sometime today and probably
publish it in JSON format if anyone else wants to do something clever
with it (and I won't require the use of my web framework in exchange).

- Cosmin

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Feihong Hsu  wrote:
> I don't ride Metra anymore so I don't have much motivation to help
>  with Cosmin's Metra Schedule App. However, I happened to have some
>  free time on my hands (I'm unemployed), so I thought it might be fun
>  to make a rudimentary parser. Surprisingly, I hardly did any real
>  HTML parsing, since Metra's pages actually use PRE tags instead of
>  TABLE tags to display the tabular parts. So it devolved into typical
>  regex hacking.
>
>  The following code should not be construed as a complete solution.
>  All it does is parse the text inside the 3 PRE tags and put the data
>  into a single 2D matrix. I also included a small function that
>  creates an HTML table out of the data. I only tested my code on a
>  single page so far, but I think all the schedule pages are pretty
>  much the same. Basically, you can use this as a starting point.
>
>  P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  import re
>  import lxml.html as lh
>
>  def get_rows(tree):
>     texts = [n.text_content() for n in tree.xpath('//pre')]
>
>     trainNumRow = [' ']
>     ampmRow = [' ']
>     timeRows = []   # list of lists
>
>     for i, text in enumerate(texts):
>         lines = [line for line in text.split('\n')
>                  if line.strip()]
>
>         trainNums = lines[0].split()
>         trainNumRow += trainNums
>         ampmRow += lines[1].split()
>
>         for j, line in enumerate(lines[2:]):
>             matches = [m for m in re.finditer(r"x?\d+\:\d+|.---|\|",
>  line)]
>             if len(matches) != len(trainNums):
>                 break
>
>             pos = matches[0].start()
>             town = line[:pos].strip()
>             times = [m.group() for m in matches]
>
>             if j >= len(timeRows):
>                 timeRows.append([])
>
>             timeRows[j] += [town]+times if i==0 else times
>
>     yield trainNumRow
>     yield ampmRow
>     for row in timeRows:
>         yield row
>
>  def make_table_file(filename, rows):
>     import codecs
>     fout = codecs.open(filename, 'w', 'utf-8')
>     fout.write('')
>     for row in rows:
>         fout.write('')
>         for v in row:
>             if v.endswith('---'):   # get rid of the stupid \x97 char
>                 v = '----'
>             fout.write('' % v)
>         fout.write('')
>     fout.write('
%s
')
>     fout.close()
>
>  if __name__ == '__main__':
>     tree = lh.parse('test.html')
>     rows = get_rows(tree)
>     make_table_file('table.html', rows)
>
>
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 00:26:52 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:26:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
	
	<6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804091526h1fcef054sda1592f078daa935@mail.gmail.com>

I like the idea of using web2py to clone the look and feel of a
website (but be aware of
http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/575-but-theres-only-so-many-ways-to-do-something-right).
Also, you might find some buyers for such a project
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=337

- Cosmin

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> I posted my toy screen scraper on
>
>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/scraper.py
>
>  There seem to be a lot of expertise on the list on this topic so
>  perhaps you can help make it better or just use it to make your
>  better. Currently it scrapes correctly wikipedia page given two
>  examples, extracts all repeated tags, removes all text and replaces
>  it with "text", finds all link and it handles javascript properly.
>
>  It uses the LCS applied to symbols (tags) instead of character.
>  Something I suggested when Adrian gave us an excellent presentation
>  on this topic.
>
>  What's missing:
>  1) after it finds all links, which it does (except for links in css
>  and javascript) it should loop over then, download the images, rename
>  them and rename the links.
>  2) It may introduce some spurious close tags. They have to be removed.
>
>  Eventually I would like to add a button to the web2py admin interface
>  that says: "make my app look like that one" and it will scrape the
>  other one, download images and build a new web2py template. I am
>  close but I could use some help.
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>  On Apr 9, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
>
>  > It sounds interesting.  I'm interested in seeing the technical reasons
>  > for the change to lxml, and possibly how that benefitted you.  Maybe
>  > do another talk (or at least a lightning talk) at another ChiPy
>  > meeting once you're ready to open it?
>  >
>  > "Adrian Holovaty"  writes:
>  >
>  >> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Tom Printy
>  >>  wrote:
>  >>> Wow this library is super cool. Anyone got slides or notes from the
>  >>>  talk?
>  >>
>  >> Hey, that's my library and was my talk. Note that the current version
>  >> of templatemaker (on Google Code) is pretty "dumb" when dealing with
>  >> HTML.
>  >>
>  >> Since that talk, I've developed a new one, based on lxml, that
>  >> analyzes differences in the HTML trees. It's a *lot* better (I'd even
>  >> call it *awesome*), but I haven't released it open-source yet. Stay
>  >> tuned.
>  >>
>  >> Adrian
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Chicago mailing list
>  >> Chicago at python.org
>  >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From skip at pobox.com  Thu Apr 10 00:48:31 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 17:48:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	<18429.8730.858536.828659@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	
Message-ID: <18429.18367.813391.857042@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    mt> I was thinking of this thing:
    mt> http://radnauseam.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/mareytrain.gif

Ah, yes, that is familiar.  One of the guys in the research group has (all
of?) Tufte's books.  I'll have to wander on over and reacquaint myself with
them.

Skip

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Apr 10 01:02:36 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:02:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>		<6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <47FD4B0C.3080301@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> I posted my toy screen scraper on
> 
>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/scraper.py

This link doesn't work for me.

> There seem to be a lot of expertise on the list on this topic so  
> perhaps you can help make it better or just use it to make your  
> better. Currently it scrapes correctly wikipedia page given two  
> examples, extracts all repeated tags, removes all text and replaces  
> it with "text", finds all link and it handles javascript properly.
> 
> It uses the LCS applied to symbols (tags) instead of character.  
> Something I suggested when Adrian gave us an excellent presentation  
> on this topic.
> 
> What's missing:
> 1) after it finds all links, which it does (except for links in css  
> and javascript) it should loop over then, download the images, rename  
> them and rename the links.
> 2) It may introduce some spurious close tags. They have to be removed.

The project I worked on during Code-for-a-Cause is probably related to 
this: http://code.google.com/p/scrapy/

I was trying to finish it up when appengine got me distracted.  I just 
commited the incomplete web interface, with is meant to be a kind of 
wizard -- first you get the files, then you rewrite URLs, then you strip 
down content.

> Eventually I would like to add a button to the web2py admin interface  
> that says: "make my app look like that one" and it will scrape the  
> other one, download images and build a new web2py template. I am  
> close but I could use some help.

Deliverance (http://openplans.org/projects/deliverance) can basically do 
this -- you point it at the site you want to clone, and tell it what 
area to put the content of the original request into.

   Ian

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Apr 10 01:57:28 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:57:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

To avoid confusion. This is not the program for parsing metra schedule.
This is a general purpose scraper for extracting page layout, not  
page content.


On Apr 9, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> Thanks. I added your code to
> http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/commit/ 
> 60a7723281c98a5297b31222493bf2e9a8bf10e4
> This should work for most pages - as far as I remember there was a
> single page in the schedule that had some odd exception to it
> (something like an HTML comment in the middle of the schedule). But
> last time I looked at it was probably a year ago so it might have
> changed.
>
> I'll try to get all the data parsed out sometime today and probably
> publish it in JSON format if anyone else wants to do something clever
> with it (and I won't require the use of my web framework in exchange).
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Feihong Hsu   
> wrote:
>> I don't ride Metra anymore so I don't have much motivation to help
>>  with Cosmin's Metra Schedule App. However, I happened to have some
>>  free time on my hands (I'm unemployed), so I thought it might be fun
>>  to make a rudimentary parser. Surprisingly, I hardly did any real
>>  HTML parsing, since Metra's pages actually use PRE tags instead of
>>  TABLE tags to display the tabular parts. So it devolved into typical
>>  regex hacking.
>>
>>  The following code should not be construed as a complete solution.
>>  All it does is parse the text inside the 3 PRE tags and put the data
>>  into a single 2D matrix. I also included a small function that
>>  creates an HTML table out of the data. I only tested my code on a
>>  single page so far, but I think all the schedule pages are pretty
>>  much the same. Basically, you can use this as a starting point.
>>
>>  P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>  import re
>>  import lxml.html as lh
>>
>>  def get_rows(tree):
>>     texts = [n.text_content() for n in tree.xpath('//pre')]
>>
>>     trainNumRow = [' ']
>>     ampmRow = [' ']
>>     timeRows = []   # list of lists
>>
>>     for i, text in enumerate(texts):
>>         lines = [line for line in text.split('\n')
>>                  if line.strip()]
>>
>>         trainNums = lines[0].split()
>>         trainNumRow += trainNums
>>         ampmRow += lines[1].split()
>>
>>         for j, line in enumerate(lines[2:]):
>>             matches = [m for m in re.finditer(r"x?\d+\:\d+|.---|\|",
>>  line)]
>>             if len(matches) != len(trainNums):
>>                 break
>>
>>             pos = matches[0].start()
>>             town = line[:pos].strip()
>>             times = [m.group() for m in matches]
>>
>>             if j >= len(timeRows):
>>                 timeRows.append([])
>>
>>             timeRows[j] += [town]+times if i==0 else times
>>
>>     yield trainNumRow
>>     yield ampmRow
>>     for row in timeRows:
>>         yield row
>>
>>  def make_table_file(filename, rows):
>>     import codecs
>>     fout = codecs.open(filename, 'w', 'utf-8')
>>     fout.write('')
>>     for row in rows:
>>         fout.write('')
>>         for v in row:
>>             if v.endswith('---'):   # get rid of the stupid \x97 char
>>                 v = '----'
>>             fout.write('' % v)
>>         fout.write('')
>>     fout.write('
%s
')
>>     fout.close()
>>
>>  if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     tree = lh.parse('test.html')
>>     rows = get_rows(tree)
>>     make_table_file('table.html', rows)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  __________________________________________________
>>  Do You Yahoo!?
>>  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Apr 10 01:59:24 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <47FD4B0C.3080301@colorstudy.com>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
	
	<6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
	<47FD4B0C.3080301@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <8CBFB08E-40B6-4118-AE65-16F5518637F0@cs.depaul.edu>

Sorry typo

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/scraping.py


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Apr 10 02:51:39 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:51:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

The Metra schedule already parsed and normalized in routes is here:

     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/metra.pickle

[(line,type,routes),...]

type=1 for weekdays, 2 for saturday and 3 for sundays
routes is {route_number:[(station,time),(station,time),...],...}

time is in minutes from midnight.

Getting this was not as easy as it seems and took a lot of work.

Massimo


From mandric at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 04:54:06 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:54:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <4E89681E-E711-4EC5-9D9A-F45F312A693B@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804091142j603aa406v72a79790b7bb31fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E89681E-E711-4EC5-9D9A-F45F312A693B@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <536089f30804091954q2b20d310s1370872a265d77c2@mail.gmail.com>

We love you web2py/massimo!  Don't change anything!  You have done
amazing work, it will benefit us all if you keep your work going and
making the great contributions to python.  I for one plan to use it
for a teaching tool, and the web interface is the crucial piece for
people learning.  People get stuck at the cmd line, so this gets
people programming in 5 mins flat.

Also, to the Flourish conference people, how come nobody can put the
winner of the contest on the site?

In fact, that is another thing we should experiment with.  Setting up
a web2py within AppEngine, no?  I for one was quite blown away by
massimo's creation.

--
Milan

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Hi Cosmin,
>
>  Hope I did not do or say anything to get you upset. You are the last
>  person I want to upset. If I did I apologize.
>  You are an excellent programmer and I am sure you can parse those
>  page in one hour. I never said or implied otherwise.
>  Let's take this offline.
>
>  What you say below seems to imply you need the web based
>  administrative interface to develop with web2py. No. That's an
>  additional layer on top. You can use it like Django with a shell and
>  email. Here is a video on how to use the shell and emacs.
>
>     http://www.vimeo.com/879939
>
>  I know the quality of my videos is bad I am not good at that and I do
>  not have time to do better.
>
>  Moreover this is the Rails tagline: "Rails is a full-stack framework
>  for developing database-backed web applications according to the
>  Model-View-Control pattern."
>  I tried to mimic that without copying. The line you suggested does
>  would not make justice to all the stuff in web2py.
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>  On Apr 9, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>  >> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  >> 
>  >> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> Let me think about this for one week.
>  >>>
>  >>> After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
>  >>> flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of doing
>  >>> pro bono work.
>  >>>
>  >>> One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
>  >>> web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem talking to
>  >>> appengine).
>  >>
>  >
>  > I wasn't asking you to do any work pro bono, I was asking if you're
>  > willing to share the results of work you've already done without
>  > anyone asking. Parsing the data from HTML is about half hour worth of
>  > work, so if you think I'm going to wait a week for you to make up your
>  > mind and then be forced into using any particular framework you're
>  > very mistaken.
>  >
>  > I don't think you should actively try to ram your framework down the
>  > throat of people that don't want to use it. As far as I'm concerned
>  > you're going to have a tough time selling me on any framework where
>  > development is done over the web, unless you also provide a web based
>  > version of Emacs. Also, take a look at
>  >
>  > web2py Enterprise Web Framework: Free and open source full-stack
>  > enterprise framework for agile development of secure database-driven
>  > web-based applications, written and programmable in Python.
>  >
>  > Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and
>  > rapid development.
>  >
>  > Django: The web framework for perfectionists with deadlines
>  >
>  > Based on that description alone, which framework do you think most
>  > people would like to try? If I take out the filler words  (the "free
>  > and open source", the "enterprise part", the "agile development" part
>  > and the "database-driven" part) I'm left with:
>  >
>  > full-stack framework for web applications written and programmable in
>  > Python. (The last framework I remember mentioning full-stack in the
>  > description is http://www.springframework.org/). Drop the pretentious
>  > description and try something like "web2py: the easy to use web
>  > framework". Oh, and the fact that your screen cast is not recording
>  > the full screen and is following the cursor around makes it incredibly
>  > distracting, you should consider redoing it.
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Cosmin Stejerean
>  > http://blog.offbytwo.com
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Milan

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu Apr 10 05:05:56 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:05:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <536089f30804091954q2b20d310s1370872a265d77c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804090103v67e2bad2t3ab4bc83b4b7ffb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CCED902-5FD6-4DE9-99C2-2723B415B2A4@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804091008x2c12e1a4t375ccb5c003b123c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B151A30-B25B-4133-A561-C22BC964A461@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804091142j603aa406v72a79790b7bb31fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E89681E-E711-4EC5-9D9A-F45F312A693B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<536089f30804091954q2b20d310s1370872a265d77c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D425910-F471-4578-9C7E-C90C1499E3D2@cs.depaul.edu>

Thank you Milan. I really appreciate it. I would be interested in  
your experience with web2py as a teaching tool.
We are already working on porting the ORM over the appengine.
We can discuss details on the web2py mailing list if you are interested.

Massimo

On Apr 9, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Milan Andric wrote:

> We love you web2py/massimo!  Don't change anything!  You have done
> amazing work, it will benefit us all if you keep your work going and
> making the great contributions to python.  I for one plan to use it
> for a teaching tool, and the web interface is the crucial piece for
> people learning.  People get stuck at the cmd line, so this gets
> people programming in 5 mins flat.
>
> Also, to the Flourish conference people, how come nobody can put the
> winner of the contest on the site?
>
> In fact, that is another thing we should experiment with.  Setting up
> a web2py within AppEngine, no?  I for one was quite blown away by
> massimo's creation.
>
> --
> Milan
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> Hi Cosmin,
>>
>>  Hope I did not do or say anything to get you upset. You are the last
>>  person I want to upset. If I did I apologize.
>>  You are an excellent programmer and I am sure you can parse those
>>  page in one hour. I never said or implied otherwise.
>>  Let's take this offline.
>>
>>  What you say below seems to imply you need the web based
>>  administrative interface to develop with web2py. No. That's an
>>  additional layer on top. You can use it like Django with a shell and
>>  email. Here is a video on how to use the shell and emacs.
>>
>>     http://www.vimeo.com/879939
>>
>>  I know the quality of my videos is bad I am not good at that and  
>> I do
>>  not have time to do better.
>>
>>  Moreover this is the Rails tagline: "Rails is a full-stack framework
>>  for developing database-backed web applications according to the
>>  Model-View-Control pattern."
>>  I tried to mimic that without copying. The line you suggested does
>>  would not make justice to all the stuff in web2py.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Apr 9, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let me think about this for one week.
>>>>>
>>>>> After being the only one who the spent the night working on the
>>>>> flourish rumble I feel particularly dumb and kind of tired of  
>>>>> doing
>>>>> pro bono work.
>>>>>
>>>>> One prerequisite for giving it to you is that you commit to using
>>>>> web2py for your project (which by the way has no problem  
>>>>> talking to
>>>>> appengine).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wasn't asking you to do any work pro bono, I was asking if you're
>>> willing to share the results of work you've already done without
>>> anyone asking. Parsing the data from HTML is about half hour  
>>> worth of
>>> work, so if you think I'm going to wait a week for you to make up  
>>> your
>>> mind and then be forced into using any particular framework you're
>>> very mistaken.
>>>
>>> I don't think you should actively try to ram your framework down the
>>> throat of people that don't want to use it. As far as I'm concerned
>>> you're going to have a tough time selling me on any framework where
>>> development is done over the web, unless you also provide a web  
>>> based
>>> version of Emacs. Also, take a look at
>>>
>>> web2py Enterprise Web Framework: Free and open source full-stack
>>> enterprise framework for agile development of secure database-driven
>>> web-based applications, written and programmable in Python.
>>>
>>> Pylons is a lightweight web framework emphasizing flexibility and
>>> rapid development.
>>>
>>> Django: The web framework for perfectionists with deadlines
>>>
>>> Based on that description alone, which framework do you think most
>>> people would like to try? If I take out the filler words  (the "free
>>> and open source", the "enterprise part", the "agile development"  
>>> part
>>> and the "database-driven" part) I'm left with:
>>>
>>> full-stack framework for web applications written and  
>>> programmable in
>>> Python. (The last framework I remember mentioning full-stack in the
>>> description is http://www.springframework.org/). Drop the  
>>> pretentious
>>> description and try something like "web2py: the easy to use web
>>> framework". Oh, and the fact that your screen cast is not recording
>>> the full screen and is following the cursor around makes it  
>>> incredibly
>>> distracting, you should consider redoing it.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Milan
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From bray at sent.com  Thu Apr 10 16:48:37 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:48:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy ~Special~ Monthly Meeting Tuesday, April 15th
Message-ID: <1207838917.25559.1247165691@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

Come join us for our best meeting ever! 

When
----

Tuesday, April 15th, ~7pm  **NOTE: TUESDAY MEETING**  NO Meeting on
Thursday

Topics
------

 * Web2py (Massimo Di Pierro)
 * Google AppEngine Introduction / Open Discussion (Ian Bicking) 
 * Random Frame Hacks - lightning talks

Location
--------

DePaul CTI 243 S Wabash Ave. Big Lab on the Lobby.

About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.

ChiPy website: 
ChiPy Mailing List: 
Python website: 



From cstejerean at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 20:19:53 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:19:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: 
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<276266d0804091523h2e1668e1m4866962de1d8c4c2@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804101119i50a3c93cxc0d9702978b96561@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> The Metra schedule already parsed and normalized in routes is here:
>
>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/metra.pickle
>
>  [(line,type,routes),...]
>
>  type=1 for weekdays, 2 for saturday and 3 for sundays
>  routes is {route_number:[(station,time),(station,time),...],...}
>
>  time is in minutes from midnight.
>
>  Getting this was not as easy as it seems and took a lot of work.
>

Thank you! I exported the data to JSON as well for easy manipulation
in non-Python languages, available so far at
http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master%2Fdata%2Fschedule.json?raw=true
I'm giving you full credit for supplying the data, see
http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master/THANKS

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From bray at sent.com  Fri Apr 11 02:49:31 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:49:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
Message-ID: 

Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have  
helped me immensely with these issues in the past.

I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a  
some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not  
moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.

I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range  
for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.  
Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do  
most of this myself.

I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /  
PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python  
modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on  
Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but  
mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.

Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new  
dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or  
my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data  
center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area  
where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.  
I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason  
I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From jason at multiply.org  Fri Apr 11 03:05:20 2008
From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:05:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4e0c849b0804101805k404c8a2em72a84ca62a6284d6@mail.gmail.com>

what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
made for ourselves."

I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting 'standard'.

-jason

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
> Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have
>  helped me immensely with these issues in the past.
>
>  I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a
>  some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not
>  moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
>
>  I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range
>  for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.
>  Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do
>  most of this myself.
>
>  I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /
>  PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python
>  modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on
>  Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but
>  mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
>
>  Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new
>  dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or
>  my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data
>  center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area
>  where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.
>  I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason
>  I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?
>
>  Brian Ray
>  bray at sent.com
>  http://kazavoo.com/blog
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Fri Apr 11 03:09:47 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:09:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: <4e0c849b0804101805k404c8a2em72a84ca62a6284d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<4e0c849b0804101805k404c8a2em72a84ca62a6284d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:

> what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
> a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
> EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
> made for ourselves."
>
> I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting  
> 'standard'.


Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not know  
much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should be  
looking for?



Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From tprinty at mail.edisonave.net  Fri Apr 11 04:03:03 2008
From: tprinty at mail.edisonave.net (Tom Printy)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:03:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1207879383.4753.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Have you looked at Serverbeach.com  I have recommended this  hosting
provider to many and have never heard peep 1 about a problem.

-Tom



On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 19:49 -0500, Brian Ray wrote:
> Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have  
> helped me immensely with these issues in the past.
> 
> I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a  
> some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not  
> moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
> 
> I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range  
> for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.  
> Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do  
> most of this myself.
> 
> I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /  
> PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python  
> modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on  
> Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but  
> mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
> 
> Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new  
> dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or  
> my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data  
> center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area  
> where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.  
> I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason  
> I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?
> 
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 05:11:42 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:11:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4e0c849b0804101805k404c8a2em72a84ca62a6284d6@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804102011h7a307f69sa21ee68a61e32e82@mail.gmail.com>

The problem I think is that your vendors need to be SAS-70 compliant
if you are a public company and need to be SOX compliant.

- Cosmin

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>
>  On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:
>
>  > what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
>  > a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
>  > EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
>  > made for ourselves."
>  >
>  > I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting
>  > 'standard'.
>
>
>  Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not know
>  much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should be
>  looking for?
>
>
>
>
>
>  Brian Ray
>  bray at sent.com
>  http://kazavoo.com/blog
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From jason at multiply.org  Fri Apr 11 06:06:19 2008
From: jason at multiply.org (jason gessner)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:06:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804102011h7a307f69sa21ee68a61e32e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<4e0c849b0804101805k404c8a2em72a84ca62a6284d6@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804102011h7a307f69sa21ee68a61e32e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4e0c849b0804102106j1c07c51re1f1c25d61b7f0e1@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, if your client is looking for it there isn't much you can do.
If you were personally looking for it, that would be another story.

:)



On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Cosmin Stejerean  wrote:
> The problem I think is that your vendors need to be SAS-70 compliant
>  if you are a public company and need to be SOX compliant.
>
>  - Cosmin
>
>
>
>  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
>  >
>  >  On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:
>  >
>  >  > what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
>  >  > a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
>  >  > EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
>  >  > made for ourselves."
>  >  >
>  >  > I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting
>  >  > 'standard'.
>  >
>  >
>  >  Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not know
>  >  much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should be
>  >  looking for?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  Brian Ray
>  >  bray at sent.com
>  >  http://kazavoo.com/blog
>  >
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Chicago mailing list
>  >  Chicago at python.org
>  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  Cosmin Stejerean
>  http://blog.offbytwo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 11 13:53:55 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <04FDEF57-6D7F-4388-B8C8-6AEC0E95BF3D@datawaslost.net>
Message-ID: <41520.60578.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is really interesting, but I wonder who would take them up on
this offer? Would a public service site like chicagocrime.org be a
good candidate for this kind of thing?


--- Matt Dennewitz  wrote:

>
http://www.joyeur.com/2008/04/09/joyents-garden-of-eden-for-python-web-applications
> 
> interesting. trade it all for just a little bit more.
> 
> 
> matt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Apr 11 14:52:28 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life easier)
In-Reply-To: <863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
References: <276266d0804081453x7410a155hb5c9e23da2b57fbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<1E5CE2F5-1620-4D10-A787-41F35586C477@leapfrogonline.com>
	
	<863228a10804091110u70884d8kd04c07ee025fa257@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

The other day I noticed that google maps added the bus routes and
times to the chicago map. The metra station pop-ups don't have arrival
and departure times, but maybe someone could feed into that?

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Rick Flosi  wrote:
> CTA Launched there limited line Bus Tracker with mobile (I think txt msg and
> web) interface on Monday: http://ctabustracker.com/bustime/home.jsp
>
> I haven't tried it.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Richard Stack 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A great idea, but there's a neat opportunity here. A site called
> nextbus.com will tell you when the next bus will arrive at your corner. It
> does this for a number of cities/areas, including PACE. No integration that
> I know of with the CTA or Metra, but busses have GPS.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
>
> >
> > From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Boers
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:22 PM
> > To: The Chicago Python Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [Chicago] Chance to try out AppEngine (and make my life
> easier)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cosmin,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This sounds like a great idea; I'd love to help out!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > As it happens, I don't have a github account, so if you want to pass an
> invite my way, that'd be awesome.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 8, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, it seems there is an ability to invite developers to collaborate
> >
> >
> > with you on an application.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been planning for a while to create a better interface to the
> >
> >
> > Metra train times (metrarail.com). I'd like something with Twitter
> >
> >
> > integration (so I can ask from SMS what the next train is) and a
> >
> >
> > smarter ability to search (remember my stations and only show me
> >
> >
> > upcoming train times for the current day of the week by default).
> >
> >
> > I've started working towards this in Django but it seems like a
> >
> >
> > perfect excuse to to start doing some AppEngine work. Let me know if
> >
> >
> > you'd like to help with this and I can try to add you as a developer
> >
> >
> > to the project (you'll need Git for this, I have 2 GitHub invitations
> >
> >
> > left if anyone is interested). Also let me know if you have any other
> >
> >
> > suggestions or ideas for the project.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> >
> >
> > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > PS.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Completely unrelated but, you have the ability to restrict
> >
> >
> > authentication to your Google Apps domain. This means it is possible
> >
> >
> > to create (and perhaps resell) applications designed for internal use
> >
> >
> > only and integrate it into the existing Google Mail, Docs, etc.
> >
> >
> > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/domains.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Chicago mailing list
> >
> >
> > Chicago at python.org
> >
> >
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Boers
> >
> >
> > Quality Assurance Manager
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Leapfrog Online
> >
> >
> > 807 Greenwood Street
> >
> >
> > Evanston, IL 60201
> >
> >
> > Tel. 847-440-8381
> >
> >
> > kboers at leapfrogonline.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://rickflosi.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Apr 11 15:13:56 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] more python love from Randall
Message-ID: 

http://xkcd.com/409/

-- 
sheila

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 11 15:28:45 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] more python love from Randall
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <565963.24596.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

IMO, this one's better than "import antigravity". We need to get the
guy's permission to put this on the PyCon 2009 shirt.

I have a question, though: Was the upper part supposed to reference
Mario Kart? It's hard to tell...

--- sheila miguez  wrote:

> http://xkcd.com/409/
> 
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From g at rrett.us.com  Fri Apr 11 15:22:59 2008
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:22:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
Message-ID: <20080411132305.DE8431BA183@smtp-2.01.com>

Making customer data available to a hosting provider seems like a privacy issue nightmare. When I read their offer, I initially thought it was a spoof..but no "ha ha" at the end.


-----Original Message-----
From: Feihong Hsu 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 6:53 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps

This is really interesting, but I wonder who would take them up on
this offer? Would a public service site like chicagocrime.org be a
good candidate for this kind of thing?


--- Matt Dennewitz  wrote:

>
http://www.joyeur.com/2008/04/09/joyents-garden-of-eden-for-python-web-applications
> 
> interesting. trade it all for just a little bit more.
> 
> 
> matt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From jason at panopta.com  Fri Apr 11 15:53:26 2008
From: jason at panopta.com (Jason Abate)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:53:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <47FF6D56.3000502@panopta.com>

If you're looking for an unmanaged server, I'd strong recommend 
SoftLayer.  I've got several servers with them running Turbogears apps 
and have been very impressed.  They've got great infrastructure, 
including a private network between their datacenters in Dallas and 
Seattle that you can use for backup or data replication, a control panel 
that lets you do pretty much anything you'd need (OS reloading, serial 
console access, etc.), plus their prices are quite competitive.  I 
worked in the hosting industry for 8 years and saw lots of companies cut 
corners and overlook things (especially for dedicated hosting), but 
SoftLayer seems to have done things the right way.

They're not currently SAS-70 certified, but just started the process - 
see http://www.softlayer.com/press_2008_04_01.html for details 
(unfortunately released on 4/1, but I think that's just a coincidence).

-jason

-- 
Jason Abate
Panopta | We see it all
jason at panopta.com
http://www.panopta.com



bray at sent.com wrote:
> Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have  
> helped me immensely with these issues in the past.
>
> I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a  
> some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not  
> moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
>
> I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range  
> for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.  
> Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do  
> most of this myself.
>
> I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /  
> PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python  
> modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on  
> Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but  
> mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
>
> Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new  
> dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or  
> my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data  
> center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area  
> where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.  
> I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason  
> I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?
>
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
>   


From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Apr 11 16:17:18 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:17:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] more python love from Randall
In-Reply-To: <565963.24596.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <565963.24596.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47FF72EE.1060205@personnelware.com>

Feihong Hsu wrote:
> IMO, this one's better than "import antigravity". We need to get the
> guy's permission to put this on the PyCon 2009 shirt.

meh - variety trumps better.

and I am not sure it would make a better pycon shirt.

It did touch fond childhood memories though.

> 
> I have a question, though: Was the upper part supposed to reference
> Mario Kart? It's hard to tell...

There is a previous reference to that, so... maybe.

http://xkcd.com/290/

Carl K

> 
> --- sheila miguez  wrote:
> 
>> http://xkcd.com/409/
>>
>> -- 
>> sheila
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Fri Apr 11 17:07:55 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:07:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] more python love from Randall
In-Reply-To: <47FF72EE.1060205@personnelware.com> (Carl Karsten's message of
	"Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:17:18 -0500")
References: <565963.24596.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47FF72EE.1060205@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <6yfxtssa44.fsf@imagescape.com>

>> 
>> I have a question, though: Was the upper part supposed to reference
>> Mario Kart? It's hard to tell...
>
> There is a previous reference to that, so... maybe.
>
> http://xkcd.com/290/
>
> Carl K
>

It's definetly meant to reference Mario Kart.  His blog also has
mentioned his love for Mario Kart several times, and the new Mario
Kart is also coming out at the end of this month.  No doubt it's on
his mind.

There's a bit of the GameCube "Double Dash" version referencing going
on here.  Okay, I play too many videogames.


From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 17:23:52 2008
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:23:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 32, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0804110823w36aef518g918f01b3459e8522@mail.gmail.com>

I use Stargate for a dedicated server and I haven't had any problems.  Fun
fact, they're one of the first 25 domain names ever registered.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:00 AM,  wrote:

> Send Chicago mailing list submissions to
>        chicago at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        chicago-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        chicago-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Chicago digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. ChiPy ~Special~ Monthly Meeting Tuesday, April 15th
>      (bray at sent.com)
>   2. Re: Parsing Metra's Online Schedule (Cosmin Stejerean)
>   3. OT Dedicate Server (Brian Ray)
>   4. Re: OT Dedicate Server (jason gessner)
>   5. Re: OT Dedicate Server (Brian Ray)
>   6. Re: OT Dedicate Server (Tom Printy)
>   7. Re: OT Dedicate Server (Cosmin Stejerean)
>   8. Re: OT Dedicate Server (jason gessner)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bray at sent.com
> To: chicago at python.org
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:48:37 -0500
> Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy ~Special~ Monthly Meeting Tuesday, April 15th
> Chicago Python User Group
> =========================
>
> Come join us for our best meeting ever!
>
> When
> ----
>
> Tuesday, April 15th, ~7pm  **NOTE: TUESDAY MEETING**  NO Meeting on
> Thursday
>
> Topics
> ------
>
>  * Web2py (Massimo Di Pierro)
>  * Google AppEngine Introduction / Open Discussion (Ian Bicking)
>  * Random Frame Hacks - lightning talks
>
> Location
> --------
>
> DePaul CTI 243 S Wabash Ave. Big Lab on the Lobby.
>
> About ChiPy
> -----------
>
> ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
> Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
> Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
> efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.
>
> ChiPy website: 
> ChiPy Mailing List: 
> Python website: 
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Cosmin Stejerean" 
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:19:53 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
> > The Metra schedule already parsed and normalized in routes is here:
> >
> >      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/metra.pickle
> >
> >  [(line,type,routes),...]
> >
> >  type=1 for weekdays, 2 for saturday and 3 for sundays
> >  routes is {route_number:[(station,time),(station,time),...],...}
> >
> >  time is in minutes from midnight.
> >
> >  Getting this was not as easy as it seems and took a lot of work.
> >
>
> Thank you! I exported the data to JSON as well for easy manipulation
> in non-Python languages, available so far at
>
> http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master%2Fdata%2Fschedule.json?raw=true
> I'm giving you full credit for supplying the data, see
> http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master/THANKS
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Ray 
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:49:31 -0500
> Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
> Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have helped
> me immensely with these issues in the past.
>
> I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a some
> new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not moving my
> current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
>
> I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range for
> SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work. Typically,
> I do not really need much *manage* services because I do most of this
> myself.
>
> I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 / PostgreSQL
> / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python modules that where
> we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on Mac OSX or Windows.
> Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but mostly just SSH for
> configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
>
> Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new
> dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or my
> configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data center where
> my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area where I am on the
> fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS. I do not really use any
> RedHat specific features. Is there any reason I should not move to FreeBSD
> or CentOS?
>
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "jason gessner" 
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:05:20 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
> what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
> a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
> EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
> made for ourselves."
>
> I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting 'standard'.
>
> -jason
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
> > Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have
> >  helped me immensely with these issues in the past.
> >
> >  I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a
> >  some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not
> >  moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
> >
> >  I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range
> >  for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.
> >  Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do
> >  most of this myself.
> >
> >  I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /
> >  PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python
> >  modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on
> >  Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but
> >  mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
> >
> >  Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new
> >  dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or
> >  my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data
> >  center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area
> >  where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.
> >  I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason
> >  I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?
> >
> >  Brian Ray
> >  bray at sent.com
> >  http://kazavoo.com/blog
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Ray 
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:09:47 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
>
> On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:
>
>  what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
> > a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
> > EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
> > made for ourselves."
> >
> > I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting
> > 'standard'.
> >
>
>
> Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not know
> much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should be
> looking for?
>
>
>
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Printy 
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:03:03 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
> Have you looked at Serverbeach.com  I have recommended this  hosting
> provider to many and have never heard peep 1 about a problem.
>
> -Tom
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 19:49 -0500, Brian Ray wrote:
> > Sorry if this is off topic. I recall others on this list who have
> > helped me immensely with these issues in the past.
> >
> > I am looking for a dedicated server provider who is SAS-70 to host a
> > some new commercial Python apps. My budget is 100-300/month.  I am not
> > moving my current hosting at RIMU, but this is an addition.
> >
> > I have used Rackspace. It sounds like they are not in my price range
> > for SAS-70.  I just now found Server Path, looks like they may work.
> > Typically, I do not really need much *manage* services because I do
> > most of this myself.
> >
> > I am planning on a Django / Apache2 / mod_python / Python2.5 /
> > PostgreSQL / RedHat ES application. It also has some custom Python
> > modules that where we SWIG some C++ code.   We write most our code on
> > Mac OSX or Windows. Administratively, we sometime use Webmin, but
> > mostly just SSH for configuration changes, deployment, and upgrades.
> >
> > Its been a while (3 years or so) since I have been in a need for a new
> > dedicated server. Does anyone have any recommendations on hosting or
> > my configuration changes? I want to focus on security and a data
> > center where my clients will feel comfortable with on paper.  One area
> > where I am on the fence, besides the data center, is the choice of OS.
> > I do not really use any RedHat specific features. Is there any reason
> > I should not move to FreeBSD or CentOS?
> >
> > Brian Ray
> > bray at sent.com
> > http://kazavoo.com/blog
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Cosmin Stejerean" 
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:11:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
> The problem I think is that your vendors need to be SAS-70 compliant
> if you are a public company and need to be SOX compliant.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
> >
> >  On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:
> >
> >  > what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is basically
> >  > a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
> >  > EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that we
> >  > made for ourselves."
> >  >
> >  > I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting
> >  > 'standard'.
> >
> >
> >  Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not know
> >  much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should be
> >  looking for?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Brian Ray
> >  bray at sent.com
> >  http://kazavoo.com/blog
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "jason gessner" 
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" 
> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:06:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
> yeah, if your client is looking for it there isn't much you can do.
> If you were personally looking for it, that would be another story.
>
> :)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Cosmin Stejerean 
> wrote:
> > The problem I think is that your vendors need to be SAS-70 compliant
> >  if you are a public company and need to be SOX compliant.
> >
> >  - Cosmin
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:
> >  >
> >  >  On Apr 10, 2008, at 8:05 PM, jason gessner wrote:
> >  >
> >  >  > what s it about SAS-70 that is appealing to you?  SAS-70 is
> basically
> >  >  > a company saying, "These are the rules that we follow.  Here __BIG
> >  >  > EXPENSIVE AUDITORS__, come in and see if we match the rules that
> we
> >  >  > made for ourselves."
> >  >  >
> >  >  > I'm not saying it is a joke but it is certainly an interesting
> >  >  > 'standard'.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  Its just something one of my clients asked about. I really do not
> know
> >  >  much about the details. Is there something more noteworthy I should
> be
> >  >  looking for?
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  Brian Ray
> >  >  bray at sent.com
> >  >  http://kazavoo.com/blog
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  _______________________________________________
> >  >  Chicago mailing list
> >  >  Chicago at python.org
> >  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >  Cosmin Stejerean
> >  http://blog.offbytwo.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Apr 11 17:32:00 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:32:00 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: <1207879383.4753.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: 
	<1207879383.4753.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 


On Apr 10, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Tom Printy wrote:
> Have you looked at Serverbeach.com  I have recommended this  hosting
> provider to many and have never heard peep 1 about a problem.

Serverbeach is just Rackspace's low-budget offering AFAIK.

-- 
Pete
pfein at pobox.com





From bjgreenberg at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 17:35:45 2008
From: bjgreenberg at gmail.com (Brian J. Greenberg)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:35:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] off-topic.... juggling.
Message-ID: <10dc8a240804110835m5740a6c7m110380010f5b7c64@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for this off-topic post but there tends to be a fair percentage of
developers that juggle.

I'm wondering if there are any club jugglers that work/live in the loop area
that are interested in getting together once or twice a week to pass in the
loop area or Grant Park?

-- 
Brian J. Greenberg
bjg at acm.org
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From ed at leafe.com  Fri Apr 11 18:26:14 2008
From: ed at leafe.com (Ed Leafe)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:26:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT Dedicate Server
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<1207879383.4753.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	
Message-ID: 

On Apr 11, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Pete wrote:

> Serverbeach is just Rackspace's low-budget offering AFAIK.

	They were originally part of Rackspace, but were sold several years  
ago.

-- Ed Leafe




From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 11 18:27:15 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <20080411132305.DE8431BA183@smtp-2.01.com>
Message-ID: <426870.43158.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What if your site is just an informational site (like chicagocrime or
the TurboGears home page) that doesn't need to store user data? (The
same might be true if it's a mashup of existing sites.)

But yeah, I do wonder about what Joyent intends to do with all that
data. It sounds fishy.

--- Garrett Smith  wrote:

> Making customer data available to a hosting provider seems like a
> privacy issue nightmare. When I read their offer, I initially
> thought it was a spoof..but no "ha ha" at the end.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Feihong Hsu 
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 6:53 AM
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
> 
> This is really interesting, but I wonder who would take them up on
> this offer? Would a public service site like chicagocrime.org be a
> good candidate for this kind of thing?
> 
> 
> --- Matt Dennewitz  wrote:
> 
> >
>
http://www.joyeur.com/2008/04/09/joyents-garden-of-eden-for-python-web-applications
> > 
> > interesting. trade it all for just a little bit more.
> > 
> > 
> > matt
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From orblivion at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 18:32:49 2008
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] off-topic.... juggling.
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220804110927r6e436921v9f29c2a7d5766c59@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10dc8a240804110835m5740a6c7m110380010f5b7c64@mail.gmail.com>
	<58a5f2220804110927r6e436921v9f29c2a7d5766c59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94e10adf0804110932w5df3ba65jcca096eaa72d8a5c@mail.gmail.com>

I might be up for it, the only issue is that I try to keep my lunch to
an hour, maybe a little longer on Fridays. I should note that my
passing isn't great, but I'm up for getting better.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian J. Greenberg 
> Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM
>  Subject: [Chicago] off-topic.... juggling.
> To: chicago at python.org
>
>
> Sorry for this off-topic post but there tends to be a fair percentage of
> developers that juggle.
>
>  I'm wondering if there are any club jugglers that work/live in the loop
> area that are interested in getting together once or twice a week to pass in
> the loop area or Grant Park?
>
> --
> Brian J. Greenberg
> bjg at acm.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Apr 11 18:34:17 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:34:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <426870.43158.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <426870.43158.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47FF9309.20100@colorstudy.com>

Feihong Hsu wrote:
> What if your site is just an informational site (like chicagocrime or
> the TurboGears home page) that doesn't need to store user data? (The
> same might be true if it's a mashup of existing sites.)
> 
> But yeah, I do wonder about what Joyent intends to do with all that
> data. It sounds fishy.

I got the impression that they felt what they were describing was the 
same thing appengine was doing.  That is, watching and logging traffic.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 18:57:20 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:57:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <47FF9309.20100@colorstudy.com>
References: <426870.43158.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47FF9309.20100@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0804110957y3a8a4198nfddf53507850f243@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Ian Bicking  wrote:
> Feihong Hsu wrote:
>  > What if your site is just an informational site (like chicagocrime or
>  > the TurboGears home page) that doesn't need to store user data? (The
>  > same might be true if it's a mashup of existing sites.)
>  >
>  > But yeah, I do wonder about what Joyent intends to do with all that
>  > data. It sounds fishy.
>
>  I got the impression that they felt what they were describing was the
>  same thing appengine was doing.  That is, watching and logging traffic.

Yes, it's snarky satire.  With a dose of sour grapes and fear.

Chris

From korpios at korpios.com  Fri Apr 11 19:31:12 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:31:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts list; let's get a meeting going!
Message-ID: 

I started a mailing list for Chicago Djangonauts:

django-chicago at googlegroups.com

After initially raising the idea of a Django group back in February,
and finding plenty of interest, I should've done this immediately;
alas, life sidetracked me.

I'd like to start planning for an initial meeting in May, with monthly
meetings thereafter (assuming the numbers are there; perhaps bimonthly
otherwise); if you're interested, jump on over and say hi!

From matt at datawaslost.net  Fri Apr 11 19:31:44 2008
From: matt at datawaslost.net (Matt Dennewitz)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:31:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] joyent "garden of eden" for python apps
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804110957y3a8a4198nfddf53507850f243@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426870.43158.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47FF9309.20100@colorstudy.com>
	<3096c19d0804110957y3a8a4198nfddf53507850f243@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E39F6EF-787A-4F40-92FE-2BB7D8426C76@datawaslost.net>


maybe this has already been said and i missed it, but:

doesnt seem like joyent have too much to worry about until appengine  
starts to support other languages. and, its not like everyone is going  
to be trampling over each-other to drop their comfy relational  
database schemas and current setups to port to appengine. frankly, in  
most cases, it wouldn't make sense unless you:
a. have an unwritten app, or an app that would easily translate to  
appengine (probably not the case for most already-launched) apps, and
b. really want to use appengine because of its features -- meaning  
that you are either pro-google, want the free pricing, or don't think  
amazon's (awesome) a la offerings are right for you.

one of the nice things about joyent and (to some degree) other self- 
scaling hosting platforms like media temples gridserver is that you  
have a degree of *choices* in the stack you're using. i dont see why  
joyent would be unloading in their drawers just yet. sour grapes for  
sure (boo to that), but im not sure its any more than looking over  
their shoulder when they heard a loud thud.

---

as a side note: if anyone is particularly inspired, i have an  
available application spot (maybe two) that i'm down to share. i built  
a reddit clone (using bayesian rating for submitted content for now  
while i refine the algorithm) in a couple of hours, and its been  
pretty fun to develop, albeit a simple application. the appengine docs  
are a bit sparse, but most modules have pretty handy help() docs.

looking forward to the talks on tuesday!


matt



On Apr 11, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Ian Bicking   
> wrote:
>> Feihong Hsu wrote:
>>> What if your site is just an informational site (like chicagocrime  
>>> or
>>> the TurboGears home page) that doesn't need to store user data? (The
>>> same might be true if it's a mashup of existing sites.)
>>>
>>> But yeah, I do wonder about what Joyent intends to do with all that
>>> data. It sounds fishy.
>>
>> I got the impression that they felt what they were describing was the
>> same thing appengine was doing.  That is, watching and logging  
>> traffic.
>
> Yes, it's snarky satire.  With a dose of sour grapes and fear.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From korpios at korpios.com  Fri Apr 11 19:32:35 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:32:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts list; let's get a meeting going!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Tom Tobin  wrote:
> I started a mailing list for Chicago Djangonauts:
>
>  django-chicago at googlegroups.com

Oh, yeah, the Google Groups page might've been nice:

http://groups.google.com/group/django-chicago

From abb2104 at columbia.edu  Fri Apr 11 20:29:29 2008
From: abb2104 at columbia.edu (abb2104 at columbia.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:29:29 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] neural networks
Message-ID: <20080411142929.l24gw8oxcocgkg48@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>

Hi,

I'm working on the netflix prize, and I was wondering if anyone could  
help me with a BACK-PROPAGATION-LEARING algorithm for a feed-forward  
neural network, that I'm trying to understand, at the meeting Tuesday?

Thanks,

Adam

From john at mail.npxdesigns.com  Fri Apr 11 20:51:54 2008
From: john at mail.npxdesigns.com (John Jacobsen)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] neural networks
In-Reply-To: <20080411142929.l24gw8oxcocgkg48@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <20080411142929.l24gw8oxcocgkg48@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <54C0665D-58AB-4FB2-8485-BA0D5EA34512@mail.npxdesigns.com>

Hi Adam,

I've done some work with NNs a long time ago - feedforward nets  
trained using backpropagation, for use in a high energy physics  
experiment at CERN.

I might be able to remember some of the details... I'd be curious to  
know what you have in mind.

Unfortunately I am out of town for this month's ChiPy, but I am happy  
to discuss over email.

John

p.s. the paper reference for the work is as follows.  I can send you  
a scanned PDF if you are interested.

Bellantoni 1991: L. Bellantoni, J.S. Conway, J.E. Jacobsen, Y.B. Pan,  
Sau Lan Wu,
"Using Neural Networks with Jet Shapes to Identify b Jets in e+e-  
Interactions",
Nucl. Inst. & Meth A310(1991) 618-622.


On Apr 11, 2008, at 1:29 PM, abb2104 at columbia.edu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on the netflix prize, and I was wondering if anyone could
> help me with a BACK-PROPAGATION-LEARING algorithm for a feed-forward
> neural network, that I'm trying to understand, at the meeting Tuesday?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

John Jacobsen
NPX Designs, Inc.

Contact info: http://www.npxdesigns.com/contact.html


From tim at gebhardtcomputing.com  Thu Apr 10 03:40:57 2008
From: tim at gebhardtcomputing.com (Tim Gebhardt)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 20:40:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web page content scraper
In-Reply-To: <8CBFB08E-40B6-4118-AE65-16F5518637F0@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <47FB7778.107@personnelware.com>
	<804e5c70804080654l2e5b955blce652c16d31161ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207664759.21429.7.camel@localhost>
	
	<6yfxtuvnmo.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<4A9BB3F4-E7A2-4326-999B-1B84B5B8C3B9@cs.depaul.edu>
	<47FD4B0C.3080301@colorstudy.com>
	<8CBFB08E-40B6-4118-AE65-16F5518637F0@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <1ce3f61a0804091840g7b0e61f9p4bd0bd6200dc307d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

> Sorry typo
>
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/scraping.py
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

Not sure if it'll help you, but python comes with a difflib module built in
that you may be able to use for LCS, and it's implemented in C.

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-difflib.html

-Tim Gebhardt
tim at gebhardtcomputing.com
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From tim at gebhardtcomputing.com  Thu Apr 10 03:45:52 2008
From: tim at gebhardtcomputing.com (Tim Gebhardt)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 20:45:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1ce3f61a0804091845s9727cefs79263ad90a53a8a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Feihong Hsu  wrote:

>
> P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
>

If  there is any intention of running this on App Engine, you won't be able
to do that.  One thing that people are a little disappointed about App
Engine is your python libraries have to be pure python and can't have C
extensions, so this might fail (unless you get lucky and lxml is installed
on the linux distribution that they're using for the App Engine servers, but
my guess is probably not).

Fortunately this looks like it'd be easy to convert to use BeautifulSoup,
which is pure Python.

-Tim Gebhardt
tim at gebhardtcomputing.com
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From ramadeus at rcn.com  Fri Apr 11 21:51:52 2008
From: ramadeus at rcn.com (Mike Kramlich)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:51:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
Message-ID: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>

First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,  
practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my  
default language for hammering nails.

That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that  
I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other  
language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their  
toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo  
Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that  
means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.

Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't  
require you to end code blocks with "end". :)

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games
http://zodlogic.webfactional.com

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Fri Apr 11 22:47:51 2008
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:47:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <87E82A34-80E5-460E-B695-094B44DBEDBA@phaedrusdeinus.org>

Alright, i'll rise to the bait.

Python 3?

-johnnnnnnnnn :)

On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:

> First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> default language for hammering nails.
>
> That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>
> Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 22:52:42 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <1ce3f61a0804091845s9727cefs79263ad90a53a8a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <184889.68030.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1ce3f61a0804091845s9727cefs79263ad90a53a8a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804111352n70cca046j6b1ca6cf76eb759d@mail.gmail.com>

> >
> > P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
> >
>
> If  there is any intention of running this on App Engine, you won't be able
> to do that.  One thing that people are a little disappointed about App
> Engine is your python libraries have to be pure python and can't have C
> extensions, so this might fail (unless you get lucky and lxml is installed
> on the linux distribution that they're using for the App Engine servers, but
> my guess is probably not).
>
> Fortunately this looks like it'd be easy to convert to use BeautifulSoup,
> which is pure Python.
>

Metra updates their schedule once a year, if that. We don't need to
have the code on App Engine parse the metra data live. We just need to
parse it and load it into the app. And keep the scripts around so we
can parse it again when it changes. Good point about the pure python
implementation though.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From clint.laskowski at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 22:50:49 2008
From: clint.laskowski at gmail.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:50:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
Message-ID: 

Maybe someday Arc will be as general purpose and as well supported.

I've heard interesting things about Qi.


On 4/11/08, Mike Kramlich  wrote:
>
> First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> default language for hammering nails.
>
> That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>
> Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 

-- Clint

Clint Laskowski, CISSP
clint.laskowski at gmail.com
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 22:56:26 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:56:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220804111356u7798e5cdm6086a50925f044eb@mail.gmail.com>

Javascript?
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From g at rrett.us.com  Fri Apr 11 23:03:20 2008
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:03:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
Message-ID: <20080411210334.931DA3AC0DF@smtp-1.01.com>

Most languages start with a specific purpose and some evolve to support the needs of a wider audience.

Are you looking for anything more specific than a shinier hammer?


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kramlich 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:51 PM
To: ChiPy 
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?

First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,  
practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my  
default language for hammering nails.

That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that  
I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other  
language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their  
toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo  
Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that  
means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.

Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't  
require you to end code blocks with "end". :)

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games
http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From john at mail.npxdesigns.com  Fri Apr 11 23:22:35 2008
From: john at mail.npxdesigns.com (John Jacobsen)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:22:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <3229EE3E-2308-45C9-B95D-96E588F1D4D9@mail.npxdesigns.com>


I know I'll get jumped on here, and I'm not suggesting it as a  
replacement for Python, but I personally have an affection for Lisp,  
primarily because of the macro feature - that you can use the  
language itself to define new language constructs.  I have not seen  
this feature in any other language (C/C++ preprocessor macros are  
laughably feeble compared to real Lisp macros).  Since Lisp macros  
yield compiled code, they are often blazingly fast as well.

Python and ancestors have already borrowed heavily from Lisp (loose  
typing, garbage collection), but having played around with Lisp, I  
miss the power of macros when writing Python (which I otherwise  
absolutely love because of the library support and readability of the  
language).

I would like to see a language with Python's readability and library  
support, with the speed(*) and expressive power of Lisp added in.

John
(*)http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html

On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> default language for hammering nails.
>
> That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>
> Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

John Jacobsen
NPX Designs, Inc.

Contact info: http://www.npxdesigns.com/contact.html


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 23:43:10 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:43:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <3229EE3E-2308-45C9-B95D-96E588F1D4D9@mail.npxdesigns.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	<3229EE3E-2308-45C9-B95D-96E588F1D4D9@mail.npxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804111443o185a662bh91c0b260ec573f65@mail.gmail.com>

I've wanted to write something similar to ParenScript
(http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/) but for Python (lisp
syntax that compiles to Python). It never made it very high on my
priority list however.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM, John Jacobsen  wrote:
>
>  I know I'll get jumped on here, and I'm not suggesting it as a
>  replacement for Python, but I personally have an affection for Lisp,
>  primarily because of the macro feature - that you can use the
>  language itself to define new language constructs.  I have not seen
>  this feature in any other language (C/C++ preprocessor macros are
>  laughably feeble compared to real Lisp macros).  Since Lisp macros
>  yield compiled code, they are often blazingly fast as well.
>
>  Python and ancestors have already borrowed heavily from Lisp (loose
>  typing, garbage collection), but having played around with Lisp, I
>  miss the power of macros when writing Python (which I otherwise
>  absolutely love because of the library support and readability of the
>  language).
>
>  I would like to see a language with Python's readability and library
>  support, with the speed(*) and expressive power of Lisp added in.
>
>  John
>  (*)http://www.norvig.com/python-lisp.html
>
>
>  On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
>
>
> > First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
>  > practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
>  > default language for hammering nails.
>  >
>  > That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
>  > I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
>  > language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
>  > toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
>  > Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
>  > means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>  >
>  > Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
>  > require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>  >
>  > Mike Kramlich
>  > ZodLogic Games
>  > http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  John Jacobsen
>  NPX Designs, Inc.
>
>  Contact info: http://www.npxdesigns.com/contact.html
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 23:59:43 2008
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:59:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
Message-ID: 

Threading, Concurrency, and Distributed programming are become more  
and more important.
I have heard that these *might* be better supported by Erlang, http://www.erlang.org/ 
.
I am skeptical, because I have not personally seen it in action in the  
real-world, but it is probably the
next language I will study.

-Rob

On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:

> First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> default language for hammering nails.
>
> That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>
> Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 12 00:02:11 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804111352n70cca046j6b1ca6cf76eb759d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80196.94066.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just want to clarify that the lxml dependency is a rather weak one.
All of the schedule data is contained within 
 tags, with minimal
markup. So the majority of the actual parsing uses regular
expressions. I started the parser in lxml because I thought I was
going to have to use a ton of XPath, which turned out not to be the
case.

But yeah, Metra hardly ever changes their schedules.

--- Cosmin Stejerean  wrote:

> > >
> > > P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
> > >
> >
> > If  there is any intention of running this on App Engine, you
> won't be able
> > to do that.  One thing that people are a little disappointed
> about App
> > Engine is your python libraries have to be pure python and can't
> have C
> > extensions, so this might fail (unless you get lucky and lxml is
> installed
> > on the linux distribution that they're using for the App Engine
> servers, but
> > my guess is probably not).
> >
> > Fortunately this looks like it'd be easy to convert to use
> BeautifulSoup,
> > which is pure Python.
> >
> 
> Metra updates their schedule once a year, if that. We don't need to
> have the code on App Engine parse the metra data live. We just need
> to
> parse it and load it into the app. And keep the scripts around so
> we
> can parse it again when it changes. Good point about the pure
> python
> implementation though.
> 
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sat Apr 12 00:18:33 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:18:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Parsing Metra's Online Schedule
In-Reply-To: <80196.94066.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <80196.94066.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

I just used text.find('
') which is invalid html but it in  
the metra pages.

Massimo


On Apr 11, 2008, at 5:02 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> I just want to clarify that the lxml dependency is a rather weak one.
> All of the schedule data is contained within 
 tags, with minimal
> markup. So the majority of the actual parsing uses regular
> expressions. I started the parser in lxml because I thought I was
> going to have to use a ton of XPath, which turned out not to be the
> case.
>
> But yeah, Metra hardly ever changes their schedules.
>
> --- Cosmin Stejerean  wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> P.S. You need lxml to run the code.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If  there is any intention of running this on App Engine, you
>> won't be able
>>> to do that.  One thing that people are a little disappointed
>> about App
>>> Engine is your python libraries have to be pure python and can't
>> have C
>>> extensions, so this might fail (unless you get lucky and lxml is
>> installed
>>> on the linux distribution that they're using for the App Engine
>> servers, but
>>> my guess is probably not).
>>>
>>> Fortunately this looks like it'd be easy to convert to use
>> BeautifulSoup,
>>> which is pure Python.
>>>
>>
>> Metra updates their schedule once a year, if that. We don't need to
>> have the code on App Engine parse the metra data live. We just need
>> to
>> parse it and load it into the app. And keep the scripts around so
>> we
>> can parse it again when it changes. Good point about the pure
>> python
>> implementation though.
>>
>> --
>> Cosmin Stejerean
>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From varmaa at gmail.com  Sat Apr 12 00:20:03 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
Message-ID: <361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding the concept of extending the Python with new concurrency models,
language features, and so on, I think that one of the most interesting
projects out there is PyPy, which allows for features from other languages
to be "ported over" to Python relatively easily.  Granted, last I looked
PyPy wasn't in a state where it was terribly easy for anyone outside of its
core development team to do this; but over the past year or two, one major
way I've learned about interesting features of other languages has been by
seeing them experimentally ported over to Python through PyPy.  It's a great
way to preserve Python's user-friendliness while still getting some amount
of innovation at the language level.

- Atul

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Rob Kapteyn  wrote:

> Threading, Concurrency, and Distributed programming are become more and
> more important.I have heard that these *might* be better supported by
> Erlang, http://www.erlang.org/. 
> I am skeptical, because I have not personally seen it in action in the
> real-world, but it is probably the
> next language I will study.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
>
> First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> default language for hammering nails.
>
> That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
>
> Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From pohara at virtualmotors.com  Fri Apr 11 16:43:15 2008
From: pohara at virtualmotors.com (Patrick O'Hara)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:43:15 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] more python love from Randall
Message-ID: <1b78625fa53b453db79a8e7bf5c7551a@maila24.webcontrolcenter.com>

Carl,
good morning
did you get  the map ?
i sent it from CORPORATE ACCOUNT
AND THIS ACCOUNT AS WELL

Patrick

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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sat Apr 12 22:23:47 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:23:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
Message-ID: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>


     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index

As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me  
while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Sat Apr 12 23:41:12 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:41:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804121441y4dd8bd35re7c55027650a32e1@mail.gmail.com>

I like it. Something is odd about the page though (or about my
browser). The first time I clicked on the link I got 2 errors saying
the station name was required (this was just when loading the page).
Now even if I close the window and click on your link again it shows
me the results of my last query. I'm guessing it's something related
to my session ID.

- Cosmin

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
>
>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>
>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sat Apr 12 23:55:22 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 16:55:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804121441y4dd8bd35re7c55027650a32e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804121441y4dd8bd35re7c55027650a32e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

It is done on purpose. It always remembers your last arrival and  
destination request but updated the when field to today. Since you  
had been on the site before this feature was fully implemented it did  
not remember your preferences. New visitors should not get the two  
error messages, only a message that says required field.

Massimo

On Apr 12, 2008, at 4:41 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> I like it. Something is odd about the page though (or about my
> browser). The first time I clicked on the link I got 2 errors saying
> the station name was required (this was just when loading the page).
> Now even if I close the window and click on your link again it shows
> me the results of my last query. I'm guessing it's something related
> to my session ID.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>>
>>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>>
>>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From jsudlow at gmail.com  Sun Apr 13 02:49:57 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:49:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Ruby has some nice idioms like conditional assignments and symbols that
sometimes make things easier. Also indentation is not enforced. I think if
your someone who hates the indentation of python, then this scripted lang
might be fun for you. And I have to admit, I really like Ruby on Rails.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Atul Varma  wrote:

> Regarding the concept of extending the Python with new concurrency models,
> language features, and so on, I think that one of the most interesting
> projects out there is PyPy, which allows for features from other languages
> to be "ported over" to Python relatively easily.  Granted, last I looked
> PyPy wasn't in a state where it was terribly easy for anyone outside of its
> core development team to do this; but over the past year or two, one major
> way I've learned about interesting features of other languages has been by
> seeing them experimentally ported over to Python through PyPy.  It's a great
> way to preserve Python's user-friendliness while still getting some amount
> of innovation at the language level.
>
> - Atul
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Rob Kapteyn  wrote:
>
> > Threading, Concurrency, and Distributed programming are become more and
> > more important.I have heard that these *might* be better supported by
> > Erlang, http://www.erlang.org/. 
> > I am skeptical, because I have not personally seen it in action in the
> > real-world, but it is probably the
> > next language I will study.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> >
> > First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> > practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> > default language for hammering nails.
> >
> > That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> > I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> > language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> > toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> > Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> > means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
> >
> > Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> > require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
> >
> > Mike Kramlich
> > ZodLogic Games
> > http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il 60625
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From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Apr 13 17:33:48 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:33:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
>
>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>
>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.

it doesn't recognize Ogilvy.



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Apr 13 17:36:05 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:36:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM, sheila miguez  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>   wrote:
>  >
>
> >      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>  >
>  >  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>  >  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>
>  it doesn't recognize Ogilvy.

which for some reason I don't remember as ie.



-- 
sheila

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Apr 13 17:35:35 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:35:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: <9CC43A66-FD60-45F7-8156-07995EBB0218@cs.depaul.edu>

Shouln't it be "Ogilvie"?


On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:33 AM, sheila miguez wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>>
>>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>>
>>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>
> it doesn't recognize Ogilvy.
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Apr 13 17:38:50 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:38:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
Message-ID: <8B43A6E6-D51D-4A53-AE55-0F5AAEA0C86B@cs.depaul.edu>

You can say

"genev" to "hicag" and it will find out the (c)hicag(o) station is  
"ogilvie"

Massimo

On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:36 AM, sheila miguez wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM, sheila miguez   
> wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>   wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>>>
>>>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look  
>>> am me
>>>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>>
>>  it doesn't recognize Ogilvy.
>
> which for some reason I don't remember as ie.
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Apr 13 20:00:48 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:00:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <8B43A6E6-D51D-4A53-AE55-0F5AAEA0C86B@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<8B43A6E6-D51D-4A53-AE55-0F5AAEA0C86B@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> You can say
>
>  "genev" to "hicag" and it will find out the (c)hicag(o) station is
>  "ogilvie"
>
>  Massimo

after embarrassing myself with the misspelling I tried olgiv to see if
you had that working. nice.

you might want to help people with poor memories for names and
spellings (like me) somehow. :)



-- 
sheila

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Apr 13 20:09:03 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:09:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<8B43A6E6-D51D-4A53-AE55-0F5AAEA0C86B@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: <0C898739-8583-4586-9EF1-A75DC97FECE7@cs.depaul.edu>

I agree. I will try come up with a solution. Thanks for testing it.

On Apr 13, 2008, at 1:00 PM, sheila miguez wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> You can say
>>
>>  "genev" to "hicag" and it will find out the (c)hicag(o) station is
>>  "ogilvie"
>>
>>  Massimo
>
> after embarrassing myself with the misspelling I tried olgiv to see if
> you had that working. nice.
>
> you might want to help people with poor memories for names and
> spellings (like me) somehow. :)
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Apr 13 20:33:19 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:33:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<8B43A6E6-D51D-4A53-AE55-0F5AAEA0C86B@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: 

Try it now. It will take take things like "genea" to "ogilvy"

Massimo

On Apr 13, 2008, at 1:00 PM, sheila miguez wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> You can say
>>
>>  "genev" to "hicag" and it will find out the (c)hicag(o) station is
>>  "ogilvie"
>>
>>  Massimo
>
> after embarrassing myself with the misspelling I tried olgiv to see if
> you had that working. nice.
>
> you might want to help people with poor memories for names and
> spellings (like me) somehow. :)
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Sun Apr 13 20:37:04 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:37:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Jon Sudlow  wrote:
> Ruby has some nice idioms like conditional assignments and symbols that
> sometimes make things easier. Also indentation is not enforced. I think if
> your someone who hates the indentation of python,

Someone who hates indenting code to indicate structure probably
shouldn't be writing code in the first place.

> then this scripted lang
> might be fun for you. And I have to admit, I really like Ruby on Rails.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Atul Varma  wrote:
> > Regarding the concept of extending the Python with new concurrency models,
> language features, and so on, I think that one of the most interesting
> projects out there is PyPy, which allows for features from other languages
> to be "ported over" to Python relatively easily.  Granted, last I looked
> PyPy wasn't in a state where it was terribly easy for anyone outside of its
> core development team to do this; but over the past year or two, one major
> way I've learned about interesting features of other languages has been by
> seeing them experimentally ported over to Python through PyPy.  It's a great
> way to preserve Python's user-friendliness while still getting some amount
> of innovation at the language level.
> >
> > - Atul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Rob Kapteyn  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Threading, Concurrency, and Distributed programming are become more and
> more important.
> > > I have heard that these *might* be better supported by Erlang,
> http://www.erlang.org/.
> > >
> > > I am skeptical, because I have not personally seen it in action in the
> real-world, but it is probably the
> > > next language I will study.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> > > practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> > > default language for hammering nails.
> > >
> > > That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list that
> > > I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> > > language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in their
> > > toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could outdo
> > > Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough that
> > > means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
> > >
> > > Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> > > require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
> > >
> > > Mike Kramlich
> > > ZodLogic Games
> > > http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sudlow
> 3225 Foster Avenue
> 221 Sohlberg Hall
> C.P.O 2224
> Chicago, Il 60625
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From jsudlow at gmail.com  Sun Apr 13 22:08:12 2008
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:08:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very attached to
their curly braced code blocks.

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Kumar McMillan 
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Jon Sudlow  wrote:
> > Ruby has some nice idioms like conditional assignments and symbols that
> > sometimes make things easier. Also indentation is not enforced. I think
> if
> > your someone who hates the indentation of python,
>
> Someone who hates indenting code to indicate structure probably
> shouldn't be writing code in the first place.
>
> > then this scripted lang
> > might be fun for you. And I have to admit, I really like Ruby on Rails.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Atul Varma  wrote:
> > > Regarding the concept of extending the Python with new concurrency
> models,
> > language features, and so on, I think that one of the most interesting
> > projects out there is PyPy, which allows for features from other
> languages
> > to be "ported over" to Python relatively easily.  Granted, last I looked
> > PyPy wasn't in a state where it was terribly easy for anyone outside of
> its
> > core development team to do this; but over the past year or two, one
> major
> > way I've learned about interesting features of other languages has been
> by
> > seeing them experimentally ported over to Python through PyPy.  It's a
> great
> > way to preserve Python's user-friendliness while still getting some
> amount
> > of innovation at the language level.
> > >
> > > - Atul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Rob Kapteyn 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Threading, Concurrency, and Distributed programming are become more
> and
> > more important.
> > > > I have heard that these *might* be better supported by Erlang,
> > http://www.erlang.org/.
> > > >
> > > > I am skeptical, because I have not personally seen it in action in
> the
> > real-world, but it is probably the
> > > > next language I will study.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Rob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 11, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > First let me say I love Python and think it's well-designed,
> > > > practical, clear, flexible, chocolate-tasting, etc., and it's my
> > > > default language for hammering nails.
> > > >
> > > > That out of the way, I wanted to throw out a question to the list
> that
> > > > I've been wondering about. Does anyone have their eye on any other
> > > > language to sort of potentially maybe one day replace Python in
> their
> > > > toolbox. I'm not interested in special-purpose tools that could
> outdo
> > > > Python in one specific area, but rather, something general enough
> that
> > > > means it could be your next big all-purpose Hammer.
> > > >
> > > > Bonus points if it's not associated with Microsoft, and doesn't
> > > > require you to end code blocks with "end". :)
> > > >
> > > > Mike Kramlich
> > > > ZodLogic Games
> > > > http://zodlogic.webfactional.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jon Sudlow
> > 3225 Foster Avenue
> > 221 Sohlberg Hall
> > C.P.O 2224
> > Chicago, Il 60625
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Chicago mailing list
> >  Chicago at python.org
> >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Jon Sudlow
3225 Foster Avenue
221 Sohlberg Hall
C.P.O 2224
Chicago, Il 60625
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From pfein at pobox.com  Sun Apr 13 22:28:10 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:28:10 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <41DFDC56-3049-434A-B2C3-A012F409F268@pobox.com>

On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:

> Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very attached  
> to their curly braced code blocks.

AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!

-- 
Pete
pfein at pobox.com




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From maney at two14.net  Sun Apr 13 23:23:50 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:23:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <41DFDC56-3049-434A-B2C3-A012F409F268@pobox.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<41DFDC56-3049-434A-B2C3-A012F409F268@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20080413212350.GA9921@furrr.two14.net>

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 04:28:10PM -0400, Pete wrote:
> On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Jon Sudlow wrote:
>
>> Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very attached to 
>> their curly braced code blocks.
>
> AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!

... FOR PYTHON.  Absolutely!

-- 
The people who are serious in the open source world
don't really think that making money is an evil process.
Not even Richard Stallman.  Where you get that from is your
cliche 12-year old on Slashdot who doesn't understand it. -- Bruce Perens


From mtobis at gmail.com  Sun Apr 13 23:31:10 2008
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:31:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <20080413212350.GA9921@furrr.two14.net>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<41DFDC56-3049-434A-B2C3-A012F409F268@pobox.com>
	<20080413212350.GA9921@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: 

>> Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very attached to
>> their curly braced code blocks.

This is a matter about which reasonable people can disagree

... with unreasonable people.

mt

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Apr 13 23:58:27 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	
	<361b27370804111520g13306f94m899932d849c99e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<41DFDC56-3049-434A-B2C3-A012F409F268@pobox.com>
	<20080413212350.GA9921@furrr.two14.net>
	
Message-ID: <92C92C8F-68AB-4068-A37F-856B62AFF6A8@cs.depaul.edu>

I am not sure the curly braced code is the issue here. Programming  
languages are tools that we use as screw drivers or cars. Learning to  
use a tool takes time and we do not have the time to learn and  
evaluate all possible tools in order to always find the best one for  
each job. We have to rely on the market to tell us which tools is  
more popular and we perceive that tool A is more popular than tool B,  
we assume that tool A is better than tool B, and by learning A we  
will have a more marketable skill.
Sun spends a lot of money to convince people that Java is the  
programming language for the web, Microsoft spends more than  
everybody else pushing their operating system, and Oracle spends  
money convincing you they have the best database engine. I have seen  
a lot of excellent products, way superior to the competition, die  
just because they did not have a good enough marketing machine. I am  
not sure what to do about this. Not sure there is anything that can  
be done.


On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:

>>> Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very  
>>> attached to
>>> their curly braced code blocks.
>
> This is a matter about which reasonable people can disagree
>
> ... with unreasonable people.
>
> mt
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From maney at two14.net  Mon Apr 14 02:23:16 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:23:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <3229EE3E-2308-45C9-B95D-96E588F1D4D9@mail.npxdesigns.com>
References: <728D180B-A56F-4977-8FF7-7D72068F49D9@rcn.com>
	<3229EE3E-2308-45C9-B95D-96E588F1D4D9@mail.npxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <20080414002316.GB9921@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 04:22:35PM -0500, John Jacobsen wrote:
> I would like to see a language with Python's readability and library  
> support, with the speed(*) and expressive power of Lisp added in.

I have the liveliest suspicion that that readability and powerful
macros facilities are fundamentally incompatible.  It's about having
enough fixed and immutable structure to give you your bearings in a sea
of as-yet unfamiliar code...

And I've always wondered why Lisp hasn't long had killer library
support - it's surely been around long enough, one would think. 
Something keeps running its batteries down?

-- 
The people who are serious in the open source world
don't really think that making money is an evil process.
Not even Richard Stallman.  Where you get that from is your
cliche 12-year old on Slashdot who doesn't understand it. -- Bruce Perens


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 14 04:19:55 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Better than Python?
In-Reply-To: <92C92C8F-68AB-4068-A37F-856B62AFF6A8@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <963427.594.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hear, hear. Let's not waste time complaining about inferior
languages, let's just keep using the awesome but unlauded languages
out there, so that they don't die an untimely death.

--- Massimo Di Pierro  wrote:

> I am not sure the curly braced code is the issue here. Programming 
> 
> languages are tools that we use as screw drivers or cars. Learning
> to  
> use a tool takes time and we do not have the time to learn and  
> evaluate all possible tools in order to always find the best one
> for  
> each job. We have to rely on the market to tell us which tools is  
> more popular and we perceive that tool A is more popular than tool
> B,  
> we assume that tool A is better than tool B, and by learning A we  
> will have a more marketable skill.
> Sun spends a lot of money to convince people that Java is the  
> programming language for the web, Microsoft spends more than  
> everybody else pushing their operating system, and Oracle spends  
> money convincing you they have the best database engine. I have
> seen  
> a lot of excellent products, way superior to the competition, die  
> just because they did not have a good enough marketing machine. I
> am  
> not sure what to do about this. Not sure there is anything that can
>  
> be done.
> 
> 
> On Apr 13, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Michael Tobis wrote:
> 
> >>> Exactly, but I know their are people out their who are very  
> >>> attached to
> >>> their curly braced code blocks.
> >
> > This is a matter about which reasonable people can disagree
> >
> > ... with unreasonable people.
> >
> > mt
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Sun Apr 13 00:36:03 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:36:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804121441y4dd8bd35re7c55027650a32e1@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804121536h1041ab51w54afbe578c505413@mail.gmail.com>

Attached is a screen-shot of what I see if I go to the page after
clearing my session cookie


On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> It is done on purpose. It always remembers your last arrival and
>  destination request but updated the when field to today. Since you
>  had been on the site before this feature was fully implemented it did
>  not remember your preferences. New visitors should not get the two
>  error messages, only a message that says required field.
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>  On Apr 12, 2008, at 4:41 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>  > I like it. Something is odd about the page though (or about my
>  > browser). The first time I clicked on the link I got 2 errors saying
>  > the station name was required (this was just when loading the page).
>  > Now even if I close the window and click on your link again it shows
>  > me the results of my last query. I'm guessing it's something related
>  > to my session ID.
>  >
>  > - Cosmin
>  >
>  > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  >  wrote:
>  >>
>  >>      http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>  >>
>  >>  As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
>  >>  while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
>  >>  _______________________________________________
>  >>  Chicago mailing list
>  >>  Chicago at python.org
>  >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Cosmin Stejerean
>  > http://blog.offbytwo.com
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com
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From tim at gebhardtcomputing.com  Sun Apr 13 01:42:23 2008
From: tim at gebhardtcomputing.com (Tim Gebhardt)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:42:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <1ce3f61a0804121642i6e31a3fes7c3029bfb92d8c03@mail.gmail.com>

Very nice use of the  tag.... :)

-Tim Gebhardt
tim at gebhardtcomputing.com

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

>
>     http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/MetraSchedule/default/index
>
> As I mentioned my 3yrs old son loves metra, so having him look am me
> while I do this is a great way to put him at sleep.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 14 14:19:30 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio
Message-ID: <956082.99792.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just saw this on Planet Python:

http://www.traceback.org/2008/04/12/announcing-pyohio-a-rockin-mini-conference/

Looks like PyOhio will be held July 26 in Columbus. Unfortunately,
their web page doesn't seem to work yet, so I can't find any more
details than that.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From skip at pobox.com  Mon Apr 14 14:23:22 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:23:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Some improvements
In-Reply-To: <1ce3f61a0804121642i6e31a3fes7c3029bfb92d8c03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ED3A031-DE38-45A3-AC2B-E4FB61069248@cs.depaul.edu>
	<1ce3f61a0804121642i6e31a3fes7c3029bfb92d8c03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18435.19642.161961.5468@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Tim> Very nice use of the  tag.... :)

It's not often you can actually say that... ;-)

Skip

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 14 17:52:46 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0804081314t4066311dlc4ff628c531ba7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <280580.21571.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As someone already mentioned, there are third-party tools
(PersistentFS and Scalr) for managing persistency on EC2. However,
EC2 itself will soon support general-purpose persistent storage: 

http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2008/04/block-to-the-fu.html

It seems like they've been working on this for a while but the
feature won't be available until later this year. The blog post
mentions that this will allow you to install relational DBs that
don't go down when your instance(s) go down.


--- Chris McAvoy  wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Feihong Hsu 
> wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> >  Amazon handles relational databases just fine.
> 
> Sort of, it's just not persistent.  If you shut down your instance,
> you lose your data.  Unless there's something new I haven't heard
> of.
> 
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From g at rrett.us.com  Mon Apr 14 18:13:44 2008
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:13:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Google App engine is python powered
In-Reply-To: <1563255429.119181208189536928.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>
Message-ID: <1628886945.119831208189624949.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>

They're going to provide access to a shared volume. It will be interesting to see how this performs, given most RDB's preference for local (fast) disk read/write access.


----- "Feihong Hsu"  wrote:

> As someone already mentioned, there are third-party tools
> (PersistentFS and Scalr) for managing persistency on EC2. However,
> EC2 itself will soon support general-purpose persistent storage: 
> 
> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2008/04/block-to-the-fu.html
> 
> It seems like they've been working on this for a while but the
> feature won't be available until later this year. The blog post
> mentions that this will allow you to install relational DBs that
> don't go down when your instance(s) go down.
> 
> 
> --- Chris McAvoy  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Feihong Hsu 
> > wrote:
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > >  Amazon handles relational databases just fine.
> > 
> > Sort of, it's just not persistent.  If you shut down your instance,
> > you lose your data.  Unless there's something new I haven't heard
> > of.
> > 
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>      
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Tue Apr 15 04:20:04 2008
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (Robert Ramsdell)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:20:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Carpooling to the meeting
Message-ID: <1208226004.9228.5.camel@Maryland>

If anyone in the burbs is interested in sharing a ride to the meeting
downtown tomorrow, I will be leaving from oakbrook between 5:30 and
6:00.  Reply to rcramsdell at gldd dot com.

robert


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr 16 17:58:53 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Working on Google App Engine Saturday?
Message-ID: 

Hey all (yes, big cross post here, but I know you can handle it)

Last night at the ChiPy meeting (http://chipy.org/) we saw a
well-prepared presentation on the state of web2py
(http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/) followed by a discussion on Google App
Engine -- what it's good for, what it means to the code world, how to
get things working, etc.  Ian Bicking remarked that he hasn't had any
"fun" with App Engine yet because he's been working hard to get things
working so that other people (and he to, eventually) can have fun; see
http://blog.ianbicking.org/ .  Be sure to tell him THANK YOU ;)  The
interesting part for me is trying to understand the Datastore API
(http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/), that is, shifting
my brain into storing data in a massively distributed "cloud."  The
concepts in using Google's datastore are similar to those of using
CouchDB (http://incubator.apache.org/couchdb/).  The one that hurts
the most is you can't do joins like in SQL!

Now back to the subject of this email ... some people got together
last Saturday to work on App Engine projects and this Saturday there
are plans to do that again via the BRAND NEW Saturday House Chicago
group:
http://groups.google.com/group/chicago-saturday-house

come join us...

April 19th @ 11:00am
Noble Tree cafe
http://nobletree.tumblr.com/
2444 N Clark Street

If you are thinking to yourself, what is a Saturday House?  It's this:
http://www.saturdayhouse.org/


Anyone is welcome and it's just a time to work so you don't have to
work on App Engine.  If anyone is *looking* for an App Engine project,
I've started a site to mirror PyPi, the Python Package Index, and
anyone who wants to help out is more than welcome.

The site: http://pypi.appspot.com/
The project: http://code.google.com/p/pypione/

If nothing more, you can browse the code (it's not pretty) to get an
idea for how to make a basic App Engine site and do datastore stuff.
I also got an automated test suite running in-process for unit tests.
This was surprisingly easy.  The setup code for that is in:
http://code.google.com/p/pypione/source/browse/trunk/test/__init__.py
.  To run it you need nose and WebTest installed and the Google SDK.


-Kumar

From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Wed Apr 16 22:07:55 2008
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:07:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] neural networks
In-Reply-To: <54C0665D-58AB-4FB2-8485-BA0D5EA34512@mail.npxdesigns.com>
References: <20080411142929.l24gw8oxcocgkg48@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
	<54C0665D-58AB-4FB2-8485-BA0D5EA34512@mail.npxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <6ad48f980804161307v38205ffbya46e619f493cc29a@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry to have had to miss the meeting yesterday.  I would
encourage you to take a look at the articles being published in PLOS
Computational Biology ( http://www.ploscompbiol.org/home.action ) for
current ideas in neural network organization.  In the last 3 months
there have been articles on Neural Plasticity, Baysian Learning,
Neural Networks with Heterogeneous Populations, and a host more of
ideas that may be useful to your quest.

Phil

>  >  On Apr 11, 2008, at 1:29 PM, abb2104 at columbia.edu wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > I'm working on the netflix prize, and I was wondering if anyone could
>  > help me with a BACK-PROPAGATION-LEARING algorithm for a feed-forward
>  > neural network, that I'm trying to understand, at the meeting Tuesday?

From jquigley at jquigley.com  Thu Apr 17 00:10:54 2008
From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:10:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Lisp meeting: April 18th @ 7pm
Message-ID: <4806796E.6020200@jquigley.com>

Hey Python Folks:

Thought some of you might be interested in joining us, so I'll pass this along.  Excuse me if this is off topic.  Please pass this along to friends or co-workers if appropriate.  Thanks!

All my best,
John Quigley

*** NOTICE ***

Announcing the next Chicago Lisp meeting!

WHEN: This coming Friday, April 18th at 7pm.

WHERE: 210 S. Clark St, 24th floor[1] @ Hostedlabs. Sign in at the front desk, take the elevator to the 24th floor. There is only one suite there and the door will be held open.  Call John Quigley at 312.351.3671 with questions or problems.

WHAT:

    * John Quigley will be giving a presentation on continuations or perhaps the late-bound/combined object lambda architecture, should I have sufficient time to prepare!
    * Soliciting Lightning Talk topics for next meeting (5/16). Grant Rettke has already signed up for "A Simple Object System Using Macros". 2-3 more would be nice.
    * Some (short) planning for future meetings, planning for Intro to Lisp workshop, etc.
    * Ideas for a project we could hack together

AFTER: Food and drinks. Likely at Elephant & Castle Pub.

We had 7 people last month, let's try for more!  All are welcome, from the guru to the uninitiated.

If you'd like to hear about future meetings, please subscribe to the chicago-lisp mailing[2] list or send me your email address and I'll add you to the invite list at Coordinatr.com.

[1] Google Map of 210 S Clark: http://tinyurl.com/4tho7f
[2] Mailman: http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/chicago-lisp


From ken at stox.org  Wed Apr 16 06:47:21 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:47:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Quote of the Day
Message-ID: <1208321241.10311.96.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

"If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete
themselves upon execution." -- Robert Sewell


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Apr 18 03:50:35 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:50:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SOT: Password-less svn authentication on SourceForge?
Message-ID: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>

Not really on-topic, but I am a bit stuck trying to interact with the
Subversion repository for SpamBayes on SourceForge (which is written in
Python).  I just changed my SF password.  When I check things into the
respository it prompts me for my password.  Is there some way to establish
non-password authentication with the repository, some sort of pubkey-based
thing?

Thanks,

Skip

From bray at sent.com  Fri Apr 18 04:22:17 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:22:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SOT: Password-less svn authentication on SourceForge?
In-Reply-To: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <6235D774-C871-46B1-903A-9C7D5EAE8C73@sent.com>


On Apr 17, 2008, at 8:50 PM, skip at pobox.com wrote:

> Not really on-topic, but I am a bit stuck trying to interact with the
> Subversion repository for SpamBayes on SourceForge (which is written  
> in
> Python).  I just changed my SF password.  When I check things into the
> respository it prompts me for my password.  Is there some way to  
> establish
> non-password authentication with the repository, some sort of pubkey- 
> based
> thing?


Subversion should automatically cache your password in ~/.subversion/ 
auth/.

Perhaps your using svn+ssh http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#ssh-auth-cache


Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Apr 18 04:51:12 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:51:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SOT: Password-less svn authentication on SourceForge?
In-Reply-To: <6235D774-C871-46B1-903A-9C7D5EAE8C73@sent.com>
References: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<6235D774-C871-46B1-903A-9C7D5EAE8C73@sent.com>
Message-ID: <18440.3232.456977.747800@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    >> Is there some way to establish non-password authentication with the
    >> repository, some sort of pubkey- based thing?

    Brian> Subversion should automatically cache your password in
    Brian> ~/.subversion/ auth/.

Indeed it does.  Thanks.

Life was so much easier way back when.  Do I remember correctly that
prep.ai.mit.edu had no password protection at some point (mid-to-late
80's?).  Maybe I'm the only one here old enough to remember prep.

Skip




From ken at stox.org  Fri Apr 18 05:09:03 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:09:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SOT: Password-less svn authentication on SourceForge?
In-Reply-To: <18440.3232.456977.747800@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<6235D774-C871-46B1-903A-9C7D5EAE8C73@sent.com>
	<18440.3232.456977.747800@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <1208488143.10311.141.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 21:51 -0500, skip at pobox.com wrote:
> >> Is there some way to establish non-password authentication with the
>     >> repository, some sort of pubkey- based thing?
> 
>     Brian> Subversion should automatically cache your password in
>     Brian> ~/.subversion/ auth/.
> 
> Indeed it does.  Thanks.
> 
> Life was so much easier way back when.  Do I remember correctly that
> prep.ai.mit.edu had no password protection at some point (mid-to-late
> 80's?).  Maybe I'm the only one here old enough to remember prep.

I don't Richard Stallman had a password until the 90's.




From ken at stox.org  Fri Apr 18 05:15:58 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:15:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] SOT: Password-less svn authentication on SourceForge?
In-Reply-To: <1208488143.10311.141.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <18439.65131.131231.165692@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<6235D774-C871-46B1-903A-9C7D5EAE8C73@sent.com>
	<18440.3232.456977.747800@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
	<1208488143.10311.141.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1208488558.10311.142.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 22:09 -0500, Kenneth P. Stox wrote:
> I don't Richard Stallman had a password until the 90's.
         ^think


From zkaplan at inventables.com  Sat Apr 19 02:36:19 2008
From: zkaplan at inventables.com (Zach Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:36:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Tech Open House
Message-ID: <8240d28b0804181736x57f3a186r4fd7ebbb333835e0@mail.gmail.com>

Inventables is hosting an open house next week because we are growing.  We
want to reach out to the python community here in Chicago because we are
hiring some developers.  If anyone is interested in coming to the event
email python at inventables.com and we'll send you an evite. We're looking for
a rock star web application developer that sits on the fence between design
and engineering.
The event will have free drinks, food, and technologies to play with.

To learn more about Inventables watch the CNN video clip here:
http://www.inventables.com/News/Articles.asp
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From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 21 20:33:55 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Wrapping an interactive console application
Message-ID: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,

Is there anyone here who has experience with the following problem? I
am trying to write a Python program that wraps around an interactive
console application. I use the subprocess module for this. I start a
separate thread which uses the Popen.stdout attribute to get the
output from the console application. Everything basically works OK,
except that I can't easily quit my Python program. Even calling
sys.exit doesn't work! It looks like my thread that's reading from
standard output just refuses be killed.

BTW, I'm developing this program on Windows.

Thanks,
Feihong




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From varmaa at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 20:39:37 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:39:37 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Wrapping an interactive console application
In-Reply-To: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370804211139h7b965f0ar25beb054ce575e50@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Feihong Hsu  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Is there anyone here who has experience with the following problem? I
> am trying to write a Python program that wraps around an interactive
> console application. I use the subprocess module for this. I start a
> separate thread which uses the Popen.stdout attribute to get the
> output from the console application. Everything basically works OK,
> except that I can't easily quit my Python program. Even calling
> sys.exit doesn't work! It looks like my thread that's reading from
> standard output just refuses be killed.
>
> BTW, I'm developing this program on Windows.
>

Have you tried busting the thread as a daemonic thread using
thread.setDaemon(True)?  You might also be able to bust its death from
another thread by importing either ctypes or win32all and using the
win32 TerminateProcess() call with the popen object's "pid" attribute.
(Fortunately, it looks like 2.6 will actually include this
functionality in subprocess, from what I've seen on python-dev
lately.)

Also, I've found that reading from Popen.stdout can get problematic
due to blocking issues on Windows--if you run into issues, you may
want to consider pointing the subprocess' stdout to a file and reading
from that, as messy as it sounds. :/

Hope that helps...

- Atul

From john at mail.npxdesigns.com  Mon Apr 21 20:47:59 2008
From: john at mail.npxdesigns.com (John Jacobsen)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:47:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Wrapping an interactive console application
In-Reply-To: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5BF4DB77-5896-45C7-850D-C9E1ADCA8966@mail.npxdesigns.com>

Hi Feihong,

The problem is probably not with Popen but with the threads.  I don't  
know if this works on Windows, but if you are using (or can use) the  
threading.Thread object, try this:

    def _threadFunction():
        # popen Stuff

    t = threading.Thread(target=_threadFunction)
    t.setDaemon(True) # Make thread die if program exits
    t.thread.start()

The setDaemon method has worked well for me for this sort of problem  
(under Mac or Linux).  Let us know if it works for you!

Good luck,
John

On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Is there anyone here who has experience with the following problem? I
> am trying to write a Python program that wraps around an interactive
> console application. I use the subprocess module for this. I start a
> separate thread which uses the Popen.stdout attribute to get the
> output from the console application. Everything basically works OK,
> except that I can't easily quit my Python program. Even calling
> sys.exit doesn't work! It looks like my thread that's reading from
> standard output just refuses be killed.
>
> BTW, I'm developing this program on Windows.
>
> Thanks,
> Feihong
>
>
>
>
>        
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> ______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http:// 
> mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

John Jacobsen
NPX Designs, Inc.

Contact info: http://www.npxdesigns.com/contact.html


From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Apr 21 21:27:37 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:27:37 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Wrapping an interactive console application
In-Reply-To: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <311067.46609.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A71EE31-F29D-4B35-A8C1-80BED97A1DFC@pobox.com>

On Apr 21, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Is there anyone here who has experience with the following problem? I
> am trying to write a Python program that wraps around an interactive
> console application. I use the subprocess module for this. I start a
> separate thread which uses the Popen.stdout attribute to get the
> output from the console application. Everything basically works OK,
> except that I can't easily quit my Python program. Even calling
> sys.exit doesn't work! It looks like my thread that's reading from
> standard output just refuses be killed.

I don't know what your app is doing, but you don't need to a thread to  
avoid blocking on the subprocess:

http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/apr-08/threading-and-subprocess.html

-- 
Pete
pfein at pobox.com





From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Apr 22 06:52:23 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:52:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine
Message-ID: 

Here is a version of web2py that works on appengine

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_for_appengine.zip

  if and only if....

1) you do not use the web2py ORM, you can use the appengine one
2) you do not use admin (since you cannot edit files)
3) you do not use cache.disk (same reason as before)
4) you do not use sessions (response.session_id=None)
5) you do not bytecode compile applications

try:

    unzip web2py_for_appengine.zip
    ./runme.sh

    then visit: http://127.0.0.1:8080/welcome

While this works on the appengine we are running tests to make sure  
we did not break anything else on "other" platforms.
We are also working on porting the web2py ORM to the appengine which  
should be trivial. As soon as this is done this will go in trunk.

Enjoy!

Massimo

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Tue Apr 22 07:48:31 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:48:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <276266d0804212248i4e67d5cbl9e4fba75c1e00a2f@mail.gmail.com>

i'll have to check it out. any chance of making sessions work
(probably using the AppEngine data store as a backend)?

- Cosmin

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Here is a version of web2py that works on appengine
>
>  http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_for_appengine.zip
>
>   if and only if....
>
>  1) you do not use the web2py ORM, you can use the appengine one
>  2) you do not use admin (since you cannot edit files)
>  3) you do not use cache.disk (same reason as before)
>  4) you do not use sessions (response.session_id=None)
>  5) you do not bytecode compile applications
>
>  try:
>
>    unzip web2py_for_appengine.zip
>    ./runme.sh
>
>    then visit: http://127.0.0.1:8080/welcome
>
>  While this works on the appengine we are running tests to make sure we did
> not break anything else on "other" platforms.
>  We are also working on porting the web2py ORM to the appengine which should
> be trivial. As soon as this is done this will go in trunk.
>
>  Enjoy!
>
>  Massimo
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Apr 22 14:28:55 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:28:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804212248i4e67d5cbl9e4fba75c1e00a2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804212248i4e67d5cbl9e4fba75c1e00a2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67B980D1-285C-43F3-BD39-CF0F004AA233@cs.depaul.edu>

Only the disk based session  will not work. You can use the google  
api and save session on the database using the google api. something  
like...

def index(): # controller
      # try retrieve from DB or create session object called  
response.session_id
      # body of the controller, use the session object
      # save session object with name response.session_id
      response.session_id=None # don't save this session on disk

The cookies and generation of the name response.session_id is automatic.
As soon as we port our ORM there will be an API for all of this.

Massimo

On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:48 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> i'll have to check it out. any chance of making sessions work
> (probably using the AppEngine data store as a backend)?
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> Here is a version of web2py that works on appengine
>>
>>  http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_for_appengine.zip
>>
>>   if and only if....
>>
>>  1) you do not use the web2py ORM, you can use the appengine one
>>  2) you do not use admin (since you cannot edit files)
>>  3) you do not use cache.disk (same reason as before)
>>  4) you do not use sessions (response.session_id=None)
>>  5) you do not bytecode compile applications
>>
>>  try:
>>
>>    unzip web2py_for_appengine.zip
>>    ./runme.sh
>>
>>    then visit: http://127.0.0.1:8080/welcome
>>
>>  While this works on the appengine we are running tests to make  
>> sure we did
>> not break anything else on "other" platforms.
>>  We are also working on porting the web2py ORM to the appengine  
>> which should
>> be trivial. As soon as this is done this will go in trunk.
>>
>>  Enjoy!
>>
>>  Massimo
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Apr 22 23:09:34 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:09:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
Message-ID: 


In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test  
a beta version here

     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms

It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I  
release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate  
tests, comments and suggestions.

Massimo

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 00:02:17 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:02:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>

username? password?

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
>
>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
> beta version here
>
>     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>
>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate tests,
> comments and suggestions.
>
>  Massimo
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 00:35:09 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:35:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480E681D.5060604@personnelware.com>

How about cosmin and cosword?

Carl K

Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> username? password?
> 
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
>> beta version here
>>
>>     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>
>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate tests,
>> comments and suggestions.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> 
> 

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 00:36:39 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:36:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>

*giggle*

There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff, hit OK, 
use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.

Carl K


Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> username? password?
> 
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
>> beta version here
>>
>>     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>
>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate tests,
>> comments and suggestions.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> 
> 

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 00:57:10 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:57:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
References: 	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>

did you hijack my login?

I had to re-register.

probably a bug.

I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.

Carl K

Carl Karsten wrote:
> *giggle*
> 
> There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff, 
> hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
> 
> Carl K
> 
> 
> Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>> username? password?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>  wrote:
>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
>>> beta version here
>>>
>>>     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>
>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate 
>>> tests,
>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>
>>>  Massimo
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 02:30:42 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:30:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>

I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have  
caused some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.

On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> did you hijack my login?
>
> I had to re-register.
>
> probably a bug.
>
> I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
>
> Carl K
>
> Carl Karsten wrote:
>> *giggle*
>>
>> There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter  
>> stuff,
>> hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>
>> Carl K
>>
>>
>> Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>> username? password?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>  wrote:
>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You  
>>>> can test a
>>>> beta version here
>>>>
>>>>     https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>
>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features  
>>>> before I
>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
>>>> tests,
>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>  Massimo
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 03:25:18 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:25:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>

I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit send.
I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and password
when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
software instead of registering.

- Cosmin

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten  wrote:
> *giggle*
>
>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff, hit
> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>
>
>  Carl K
>
>
>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>
> > username? password?
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> >  wrote:
> >
> > >  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
> > > beta version here
> > >
> > >    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
> > >
> > >  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
> > >  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
> > > release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
> tests,
> > > comments and suggestions.
> > >
> > >  Massimo
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Chicago mailing list
> > >  Chicago at python.org
> > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From clint.laskowski at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 03:23:44 2008
From: clint.laskowski at gmail.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:23:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

Also, it does indicate the security certificate is self signed. So, I had to
create an exception to get to the site. -- Clint

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

> I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have caused
> some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>
>  did you hijack my login?
> >
> > I had to re-register.
> >
> > probably a bug.
> >
> > I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
> >
> > Carl K
> >
> > Carl Karsten wrote:
> >
> > > *giggle*
> > >
> > > There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff,
> > > hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
> > >
> > > Carl K
> > >
> > >
> > > Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> > >
> > > > username? password?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can
> > > > > test a
> > > > > beta version here
> > > > >
> > > > >    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
> > > > >
> > > > >  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
> > > > >  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
> > > > > before I
> > > > > release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
> > > > > tests,
> > > > > comments and suggestions.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Massimo
> > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 

-- Clint

Clint Laskowski, CISSP
clint.laskowski at gmail.com
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 04:46:27 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>

If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to  
see, you see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)

On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit send.
> I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and password
> when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
> software instead of registering.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten  
>  wrote:
>> *giggle*
>>
>>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter  
>> stuff, hit
>> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>
>>
>>  Carl K
>>
>>
>>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>
>>
>>> username? password?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You  
>>>> can test a
>>>> beta version here
>>>>
>>>>    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>
>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features  
>>>> before I
>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
>> tests,
>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>  Massimo
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 04:47:00 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:47:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: 

sorry. no money to pay for a real one.

Massimo

On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Clint Laskowski wrote:

> Also, it does indicate the security certificate is self signed. So,  
> I had to create an exception to get to the site. -- Clint
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro  
>  wrote:
> I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have  
> caused some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>
> did you hijack my login?
>
> I had to re-register.
>
> probably a bug.
>
> I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
>
> Carl K
>
> Carl Karsten wrote:
> *giggle*
>
> There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff,
> hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>
> Carl K
>
>
> Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> username? password?
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can  
> test a
> beta version here
>
>    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>
>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
> tests,
> comments and suggestions.
>
>  Massimo
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -- Clint
>
> Clint Laskowski, CISSP
> clint.laskowski at gmail.com

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From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 04:57:18 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:57:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>	
	
Message-ID: <480EA58E.9040509@personnelware.com>

do you need one at all?

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> sorry. no money to pay for a real one.
> 
> Massimo
> 
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Clint Laskowski wrote:
> 
>> Also, it does indicate the security certificate is self signed. So, I 
>> had to create an exception to get to the site. -- Clint
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro 
>>  wrote:
>> I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have caused 
>> some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>>
>> did you hijack my login?
>>
>> I had to re-register.
>>
>> probably a bug.
>>
>> I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
>>
>> Carl K
>>
>> Carl Karsten wrote:
>> *giggle*
>>
>> There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff,
>> hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>
>> Carl K
>>
>>
>> Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>> username? password?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>  wrote:
>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test a
>> beta version here
>>
>>    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>
>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
>> tests,
>> comments and suggestions.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -- Clint
>>
>> Clint Laskowski, CISSP
>> clint.laskowski at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 05:02:16 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:02:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
References: 	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>

and your register code would never ever get tested.

how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2 buttons: 
"create account and login" and "login'

now they have 3 choices:

hit create and use the site
enter a user/pw they like and use the site
enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.

ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?

Carl K


Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to see, 
> you see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
> 
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> 
>> I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit send.
>> I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and password
>> when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
>> software instead of registering.
>>
>> - Cosmin
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten  
>> wrote:
>>> *giggle*
>>>
>>>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter 
>>> stuff, hit
>>> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Carl K
>>>
>>>
>>>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> username? password?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can 
>>>>> test a
>>>>> beta version here
>>>>>
>>>>>    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>>
>>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
>>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
>>> tests,
>>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Massimo
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cosmin Stejerean
>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 05:03:21 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:03:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <480EA58E.9040509@personnelware.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<480EA58E.9040509@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: 

I try protect your security whether you trust my certificate or not. ;-)
I  am trying to test in realistic conditions with secure cookies etc.
The password retrieval problem is fixed. Thank you Milan for pointing  
out the problem.

Massimo

On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> do you need one at all?
>
> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> sorry. no money to pay for a real one.
>>
>> Massimo
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Clint Laskowski wrote:
>>
>>> Also, it does indicate the security certificate is self signed.  
>>> So, I
>>> had to create an exception to get to the site. -- Clint
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>  wrote:
>>> I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have  
>>> caused
>>> some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>>>
>>> did you hijack my login?
>>>
>>> I had to re-register.
>>>
>>> probably a bug.
>>>
>>> I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
>>>
>>> Carl K
>>>
>>> Carl Karsten wrote:
>>> *giggle*
>>>
>>> There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter  
>>> stuff,
>>> hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>>
>>> Carl K
>>>
>>>
>>> Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>> username? password?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>  wrote:
>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can  
>>> test a
>>> beta version here
>>>
>>>    https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>
>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features  
>>> before I
>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
>>> tests,
>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>
>>>  Massimo
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -- Clint
>>>
>>> Clint Laskowski, CISSP
>>> clint.laskowski at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 05:07:26 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:07:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<480EA58E.9040509@personnelware.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804222007u210a41cdm9e11d98a2927382a@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is with Firefox 3 it is becoming pretty inconvenient to
access sites without proper SSL (it's no longer just a "click ok to
continue" type dialog). It's find if you want to test under SSL but
understand that you might turn off some potential users.

- Cosmin

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> I try protect your security whether you trust my certificate or not. ;-)
>  I  am trying to test in realistic conditions with secure cookies etc.
>  The password retrieval problem is fixed. Thank you Milan for pointing out
> the problem.
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>  On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>
>
> > do you need one at all?
> >
> > Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> >
> > > sorry. no money to pay for a real one.
> > >
> > > Massimo
> > >
> > > On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Clint Laskowski wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Also, it does indicate the security certificate is self signed. So, I
> > > > had to create an exception to get to the site. -- Clint
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > I had to reboot while some people were logged in. This may have caused
> > > > some problems. Let me know you have the problem again.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
> > > >
> > > > did you hijack my login?
> > > >
> > > > I had to re-register.
> > > >
> > > > probably a bug.
> > > >
> > > > I'll try to repo it after I eat lunch.
> > > >
> > > > Carl K
> > > >
> > > > Carl Karsten wrote:
> > > > *giggle*
> > > >
> > > > There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter stuff,
> > > > hit OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
> > > >
> > > > Carl K
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> > > > username? password?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can test
> a
> > > > beta version here
> > > >
> > > >   https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
> > > >
> > > >  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
> > > >  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features before I
> > > > release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
> > > > tests,
> > > > comments and suggestions.
> > > >
> > > >  Massimo
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > -- Clint
> > > >
> > > > Clint Laskowski, CISSP
> > > > clint.laskowski at gmail.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 05:09:17 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:09:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>

I recommend having a register button right on the page (next to login)
which when clicked shows a second password box (for confirm) and let's
the user in. Don't ask me for my name and email address unless you
really need it.

- Cosmin

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Carl Karsten  wrote:
> and your register code would never ever get tested.
>
>  how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2 buttons:
> "create account and login" and "login'
>
>  now they have 3 choices:
>
>  hit create and use the site
>  enter a user/pw they like and use the site
>  enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.
>
>  ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?
>
>  Carl K
>
>
>
>
>  Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> > If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to see, you
> see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
> >
> > On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit send.
> > > I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and password
> > > when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
> > > software instead of registering.
> > >
> > > - Cosmin
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > *giggle*
> > > >
> > > >  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter
> stuff, hit
> > > > OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Carl K
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > username? password?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You can
> test a
> > > > > > beta version here
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish Rumble.
> > > > > >  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
> before I
> > > > > > release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much appreciate
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > tests,
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > comments and suggestions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Massimo
> > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cosmin Stejerean
> > > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> >
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 05:14:47 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:14:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

will look into that. Thanks.
How do you find the [folders] and [surveys] part, usability wise?
what API would you like to be exposed via XML RPC?

Massimo

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> I recommend having a register button right on the page (next to login)
> which when clicked shows a second password box (for confirm) and let's
> the user in. Don't ask me for my name and email address unless you
> really need it.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Carl Karsten  
>  wrote:
>> and your register code would never ever get tested.
>>
>>  how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2  
>> buttons:
>> "create account and login" and "login'
>>
>>  now they have 3 choices:
>>
>>  hit create and use the site
>>  enter a user/pw they like and use the site
>>  enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.
>>
>>  ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?
>>
>>  Carl K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>
>>> If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to  
>>> see, you
>> see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit  
>>>> send.
>>>> I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and  
>>>> password
>>>> when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
>>>> software instead of registering.
>>>>
>>>> - Cosmin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten  
>>>> 
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *giggle*
>>>>>
>>>>>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter
>> stuff, hit
>>>>> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Carl K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> username? password?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You  
>>>>>>> can
>> test a
>>>>>>> beta version here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish  
>>>>>>> Rumble.
>>>>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
>> before I
>>>>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much  
>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> tests,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Massimo
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 05:18:04 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Anyway, the most important question is....isn't this

https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms/media/player_open/7/document.file. 
728301963401.flv

the best video ever?

Massimo


On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> I recommend having a register button right on the page (next to login)
> which when clicked shows a second password box (for confirm) and let's
> the user in. Don't ask me for my name and email address unless you
> really need it.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Carl Karsten  
>  wrote:
>> and your register code would never ever get tested.
>>
>>  how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2  
>> buttons:
>> "create account and login" and "login'
>>
>>  now they have 3 choices:
>>
>>  hit create and use the site
>>  enter a user/pw they like and use the site
>>  enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.
>>
>>  ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?
>>
>>  Carl K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>
>>> If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to  
>>> see, you
>> see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit  
>>>> send.
>>>> I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and  
>>>> password
>>>> when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
>>>> software instead of registering.
>>>>
>>>> - Cosmin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten  
>>>> 
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *giggle*
>>>>>
>>>>>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter
>> stuff, hit
>>>>> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Carl K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> username? password?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You  
>>>>>>> can
>> test a
>>>>>>> beta version here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish  
>>>>>>> Rumble.
>>>>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
>> before I
>>>>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much  
>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> tests,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Massimo
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ken at stox.org  Wed Apr 23 05:37:55 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:37:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
Message-ID: <1208921875.23488.52.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 21:47 -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> sorry. no money to pay for a real one.


http://www.cacert.org/


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 05:45:28 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:45:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: <1208921875.23488.52.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<480E6D46.4010902@personnelware.com>
	<3C0CB448-E4EA-4CC0-A4D4-8FE9C5B4A55D@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	
	<1208921875.23488.52.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: 

Thank you! First thing tomorrow.

Massimo

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Kenneth P. Stox wrote:

>
> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 21:47 -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> sorry. no money to pay for a real one.
>
>
> http://www.cacert.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 07:01:54 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:01:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine
Message-ID: <40BE0B89-01AF-4C86-A868-291791DDE88B@cs.depaul.edu>

Does anybody know how the appengine escapes strings in gqlquery?

For example this is
q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Imagine")
the same as
q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Imagine'")

Is this the same as
q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Ima'gine")
this
q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Ima''gine'")
?

How are quotes escaped? What about other ascii charcaters?
Please, please... I know the :1 API are better and the query API are  
even better but I need to know this.

Massimo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 07:10:52 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:10:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine
In-Reply-To: <40BE0B89-01AF-4C86-A868-291791DDE88B@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <40BE0B89-01AF-4C86-A868-291791DDE88B@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804222210i39467adbhcbb5c93b657b3e3b@mail.gmail.com>

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/gqlreference.html

>From the reference

The left-hand side of a comparison is always a property name. The
right-hand side can be one of the following (as appropriate for the
property's data type):

    * a str literal, as a single-quoted string. Single-quote
characters in the string must be escaped as ''. For example: 'Joe''s
Diner'

That's the only thing that needs escaping as far as I can tell.

- Cosmin

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Does anybody know how the appengine escapes strings in gqlquery?
>
> For example this is
> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Imagine")
> the same as
> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Imagine'")
>
>
> Is this the same as
> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Ima'gine")
> this
> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Ima''gine'")
> ?
>
> How are quotes escaped? What about other ascii charcaters?
> Please, please... I know the :1 API are better and the query API are even
> better but I need to know this.
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 07:12:00 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:12:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804222210i39467adbhcbb5c93b657b3e3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <40BE0B89-01AF-4C86-A868-291791DDE88B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804222210i39467adbhcbb5c93b657b3e3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804222212s4ef8bb7dye4831aa8a48c4fac@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if it's obvious with the font (at least the one I'm
using) but the '' is actually 2 single quotes not a double quote
character.

- Cosmin

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Cosmin Stejerean  wrote:
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/gqlreference.html
>
>  From the reference
>
>  The left-hand side of a comparison is always a property name. The
>  right-hand side can be one of the following (as appropriate for the
>  property's data type):
>
>     * a str literal, as a single-quoted string. Single-quote
>  characters in the string must be escaped as ''. For example: 'Joe''s
>  Diner'
>
>  That's the only thing that needs escaping as far as I can tell.
>
>  - Cosmin
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>   wrote:
>  > Does anybody know how the appengine escapes strings in gqlquery?
>  >
>  > For example this is
>  > q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Imagine")
>  > the same as
>  > q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Imagine'")
>  >
>  >
>  > Is this the same as
>  > q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Ima'gine")
>  > this
>  > q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Ima''gine'")
>  > ?
>  >
>  > How are quotes escaped? What about other ascii charcaters?
>  > Please, please... I know the :1 API are better and the query API are even
>  > better but I need to know this.
>  >
>  > Massimo
>  > _______________________________________________
>  >  Chicago mailing list
>  >  Chicago at python.org
>  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  Cosmin Stejerean
>  http://blog.offbytwo.com
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 07:15:42 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:15:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804222210i39467adbhcbb5c93b657b3e3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <40BE0B89-01AF-4C86-A868-291791DDE88B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804222210i39467adbhcbb5c93b657b3e3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

fantastic. Thanks.


On Apr 23, 2008, at 12:10 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/gqlreference.html
>
>> From the reference
>
> The left-hand side of a comparison is always a property name. The
> right-hand side can be one of the following (as appropriate for the
> property's data type):
>
>     * a str literal, as a single-quoted string. Single-quote
> characters in the string must be escaped as ''. For example: 'Joe''s
> Diner'
>
> That's the only thing that needs escaping as far as I can tell.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> Does anybody know how the appengine escapes strings in gqlquery?
>>
>> For example this is
>> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Imagine")
>> the same as
>> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Imagine'")
>>
>>
>> Is this the same as
>> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title= :1", "Ima'gine")
>> this
>> q = GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Song WHERE title = 'Ima''gine'")
>> ?
>>
>> How are quotes escaped? What about other ascii charcaters?
>> Please, please... I know the :1 API are better and the query API  
>> are even
>> better but I need to know this.
>>
>> Massimo
>> _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Wed Apr 23 07:20:01 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:20:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py CMS
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>

I've never quite made it past the registration screen. Part of the
reason for asking for a better one is that it got in my way enough
that I never actually got to testing the software. I'll take a look at
it now though, I'm waiting for a particularly long build to finish and
I have some time to kill with registration forms.

- Cosmin

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> will look into that. Thanks.
>  How do you find the [folders] and [surveys] part, usability wise?
>  what API would you like to be exposed via XML RPC?
>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>  On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>
> > I recommend having a register button right on the page (next to login)
> > which when clicked shows a second password box (for confirm) and let's
> > the user in. Don't ask me for my name and email address unless you
> > really need it.
> >
> > - Cosmin
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Carl Karsten 
> wrote:
> >
> > > and your register code would never ever get tested.
> > >
> > >  how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2
> buttons:
> > > "create account and login" and "login'
> > >
> > >  now they have 3 choices:
> > >
> > >  hit create and use the site
> > >  enter a user/pw they like and use the site
> > >  enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.
> > >
> > >  ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?
> > >
> > >  Carl K
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you to see,
> you
> > > >
> > > see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit
> send.
> > > > > I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and password
> > > > > when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
> > > > > software instead of registering.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Cosmin
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten
> 
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > *giggle*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > stuff, hit
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Carl K
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > username? password?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> > > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You
> can
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > test a
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > beta version here
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish
> Rumble.
> > > > > > > >  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > before I
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much
> appreciate
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > tests,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > comments and suggestions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  Massimo
> > > > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > > >  Chicago mailing list
> > > > > >  Chicago at python.org
> > > > > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Cosmin Stejerean
> > > > > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Chicago mailing list
> > > > Chicago at python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Chicago mailing list
> > >  Chicago at python.org
> > >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cosmin Stejerean
> > http://blog.offbytwo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 08:33:55 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:33:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine. Any testers?
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>

Thanks Cosmin,
I have ported 90% of the web2py ORM on the appengine

now the following code works on both appengine and Oracle/MySQL/ 
PostgreSQL/SQLite

Now in trunk you will find gluon/gql.py create an empty all with this  
controller:

     from google.appengine.ext.db import GqlQuery
     from gluon.gql import *
     response.session_id=None  #disable sessions

     db=GQLDB() # for appengine
     # db=SQLDB(....) # only change for other db back-ends
     db.define_table('pet',SQLField('name'),SQLField('legs','integer'))
     db.pet.name.requires=IS_NOT_EMPTY()
     db.pet.legs.requires=IS_INT_IN_RANGE(0,8)

     def index():
         form=SQLFORM(db.pet)
         if form.accepts(request.vars,session): response.flash='pet #% 
i inserted' % form.vars.id
         pets=db(db.pet.name=='Snoopy').select()
         return dict(pets=pets,form=form)

The code makes a list of dogs called snoopy and an insert form with  
validation and errors on validation.
!!!This needs lots of testing and debugging.!!!

I also implemented update and delete a la web2py

         if len(pets)>3: db(db.pet.name=='Snoopy').update(name='Doggy')
         if len(pets)>3: db(db.pet.name=='Snoopy').delete()

but update does not do anything although I follow the rules and  
delete gives an appengine error I do not understand (BadRequestError:  
All keys must be in the same entity group). Searches involving the id  
do not work. It could also be made more efficient.

Anybody with an account willing to run this on the real thing?s

Massimo

On Apr 23, 2008, at 12:20 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> I've never quite made it past the registration screen. Part of the
> reason for asking for a better one is that it got in my way enough
> that I never actually got to testing the software. I'll take a look at
> it now though, I'm waiting for a particularly long build to finish and
> I have some time to kill with registration forms.
>
> - Cosmin
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> will look into that. Thanks.
>>  How do you find the [folders] and [surveys] part, usability wise?
>>  what API would you like to be exposed via XML RPC?
>>
>>  Massimo
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recommend having a register button right on the page (next to  
>>> login)
>>> which when clicked shows a second password box (for confirm) and  
>>> let's
>>> the user in. Don't ask me for my name and email address unless you
>>> really need it.
>>>
>>> - Cosmin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Carl Karsten  
>>> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> and your register code would never ever get tested.
>>>>
>>>>  how about you preload the user/pw with random values and have 2
>> buttons:
>>>> "create account and login" and "login'
>>>>
>>>>  now they have 3 choices:
>>>>
>>>>  hit create and use the site
>>>>  enter a user/pw they like and use the site
>>>>  enter a user/pw they have used before and use the site.
>>>>
>>>>  ps, my wineshow web site just went live.  guess what that means?
>>>>
>>>>  Carl K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If I provide a test username instead of seeing what I want you  
>>>>> to see,
>> you
>>>>>
>>>> see the mess that other people have created before you. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I did actually notice the register about 30 seconds after I hit
>> send.
>>>>>> I'm still in favor however of providing a test username and  
>>>>>> password
>>>>>> when asking for feedback so people can go right to testing your
>>>>>> software instead of registering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Cosmin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Carl Karsten
>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *giggle*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  There is a 'register' or something at the top.  hit that, enter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> stuff, hit
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, use stuff.  don't even have to wait for a conf email.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Carl K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> username? password?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  In a couple of weeks I am going to release a web2py CMS. You
>> can
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> test a
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> beta version here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/cms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  It includes the survey app developed during the Flourish
>> Rumble.
>>>>>>>>>  It is still in beta and I am still planning to add features
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> before I
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> release the source code. Nevertheless I would very much
>> appreciate
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tests,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> comments and suggestions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Massimo
>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Chicago mailing list
>>>>  Chicago at python.org
>>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 19:05:52 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:05:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine.
In-Reply-To: <0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>
References: 
	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>
	<0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <45D1321B-16F7-4518-AC3B-7E4F93190069@cs.depaul.edu>

Here is a video tutorial on web2py on appengine

     http://www.vimeo.com/932708

need trunk verison 183 or later.

Massimo

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Apr 23 19:59:23 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:59:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine.
In-Reply-To: <45D1321B-16F7-4518-AC3B-7E4F93190069@cs.depaul.edu>
References: 	<276266d0804221502q502c9c21wfa95e1727d6078d2@mail.gmail.com>	<480E6877.9030305@personnelware.com>	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>		<276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>	<0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>
	<45D1321B-16F7-4518-AC3B-7E4F93190069@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <480F78FB.6090005@personnelware.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Here is a video tutorial on web2py on appengine
> 
warning: take a good dose of Dramamine first.

 >     http://www.vimeo.com/932708

I understand why it swims around, and i understand how much trouble it is to 
make these things, but this isn't something I can pass on to someone who has 
never seen web2py.   And I need something to show my niecen.

Can you be in a lower res when you record or constrain everything to a region of 
your screen so that no panning occurs?

Can you do "installing web2py on appengine" where the database is just pet_name, 
no legs, no validation, no html.  I think that would show how quickly someone 
can get a database up.  what to do after that she can read about.  or maybe by 
that time you will have the 'what to do now that the site is up' vid :)

Carl K

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Apr 23 20:24:38 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:24:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine.
In-Reply-To: <480F78FB.6090005@personnelware.com>
References: 
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>
	<0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>
	<45D1321B-16F7-4518-AC3B-7E4F93190069@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480F78FB.6090005@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: 

I think we have a volunteer for a new vid?

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Carl Karsten  wrote:
> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> > Here is a video tutorial on web2py on appengine
> >
> >
>  warning: take a good dose of Dramamine first.
>
>
>  >     http://www.vimeo.com/932708
>
>  I understand why it swims around, and i understand how much trouble it is
> to make these things, but this isn't something I can pass on to someone who
> has never seen web2py.   And I need something to show my niecen.
>
>  Can you be in a lower res when you record or constrain everything to a
> region of your screen so that no panning occurs?
>
>  Can you do "installing web2py on appengine" where the database is just
> pet_name, no legs, no validation, no html.  I think that would show how
> quickly someone can get a database up.  what to do after that she can read
> about.  or maybe by that time you will have the 'what to do now that the
> site is up' vid :)
>
>  Carl K
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 23 20:36:47 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:36:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web2py on appengine.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<276266d0804221825wf6d006ey8cf7db414af1e4d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<51AACF44-6359-446D-8EE0-3379EAD50348@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480EA6B8.3000900@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0804222009y2d156973uab0a3ca79d60d4c0@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<276266d0804222220v40054254j1aa2f802b6f56c12@mail.gmail.com>
	<0117F2CF-F65B-42D1-9969-295168B5B0FA@cs.depaul.edu>
	<45D1321B-16F7-4518-AC3B-7E4F93190069@cs.depaul.edu>
	<480F78FB.6090005@personnelware.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Done! will be here when finishes processing:

http://www.vimeo.com/933216

Anyway, making videos is not my business so they will always be crap  
for a reason or another.

Massimo

On Apr 23, 2008, at 1:24 PM, sheila miguez wrote:

> I think we have a volunteer for a new vid?
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Carl Karsten  
>  wrote:
>> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>
>>> Here is a video tutorial on web2py on appengine
>>>
>>>
>>  warning: take a good dose of Dramamine first.
>>
>>
>>>     http://www.vimeo.com/932708
>>
>>  I understand why it swims around, and i understand how much  
>> trouble it is
>> to make these things, but this isn't something I can pass on to  
>> someone who
>> has never seen web2py.   And I need something to show my niecen.
>>
>>  Can you be in a lower res when you record or constrain everything  
>> to a
>> region of your screen so that no panning occurs?
>>
>>  Can you do "installing web2py on appengine" where the database is  
>> just
>> pet_name, no legs, no validation, no html.  I think that would  
>> show how
>> quickly someone can get a database up.  what to do after that she  
>> can read
>> about.  or maybe by that time you will have the 'what to do now  
>> that the
>> site is up' vid :)
>>
>>  Carl K
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Chicago mailing list
>>  Chicago at python.org
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 28 00:15:58 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:15:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] New Venue: The Fixx on Shefield
Message-ID: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>

Hey group:

I am at The Fixx Coffee Bar right now and the owner Gary (CC'd) has  
kindly offered the front portion of his shop for a venue for our May  
8th meeting. He has a sound system, but we would need to find  
projector and screen. The front can comfortably fit 30. He does have  
free wifi.



As far as food, perhaps we can talk him into making some extra salads  
boxes. Or we can just grab something after.

Any objections or thoughts on use of this as our next venue? He said  
he will not be offended if its not a perfect venue. On the other hand,  
he has hosted a lot of different venues in the past ranging from: doll  
collectors, poetry readings, bands, gender activist groups, and all  
sort of things. Perhaps we will be the first group of techie nerds,  
scientist, engineers, and scholars--or whatever we are.

Your thoughts.

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From g at rrett.us.com  Mon Apr 28 00:37:55 2008
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:37:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] New Venue: The Fixx on Shefield
In-Reply-To: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>
Message-ID: <1038764576.1007351209335875635.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>

+1 

I'd even be interested in opening up our meeting to those doll collecting gender activists. Or maybe get together afterward.

Garrett


----- "Brian Ray"  wrote:

> Hey group:
> 
> I am at The Fixx Coffee Bar right now and the owner Gary (CC'd) has  
> kindly offered the front portion of his shop for a venue for our May 
> 
> 8th meeting. He has a sound system, but we would need to find  
> projector and screen. The front can comfortably fit 30. He does have 
> 
> free wifi.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as food, perhaps we can talk him into making some extra salads 
> 
> boxes. Or we can just grab something after.
> 
> Any objections or thoughts on use of this as our next venue? He said 
> 
> he will not be offended if its not a perfect venue. On the other hand,
>  
> he has hosted a lot of different venues in the past ranging from: doll
>  
> collectors, poetry readings, bands, gender activist groups, and all  
> sort of things. Perhaps we will be the first group of techie nerds,  
> scientist, engineers, and scholars--or whatever we are.
> 
> Your thoughts.
> 
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 00:42:30 2008
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:42:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] New Venue: The Fixx on Shefield
In-Reply-To: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>
References: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>
Message-ID: <5A7E3641-55AA-4A0F-8C47-533F898D5CF7@gmail.com>

Sounds good to me.

I think its appropriate that Pythonistas lead the way into such a venue.

Looking at the group, I've got to say that we are NOT a group of  
"techie nerds" -- were just interested in some of the same types of  
things as techie nerds ;-)

Sent from my iPhone (on the way to Amsterdam :-)

On Apr 27, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Brian Ray  wrote:

> Hey group:
>
> I am at The Fixx Coffee Bar right now and the owner Gary (CC'd) has  
> kindly offered the front portion of his shop for a venue for our May  
> 8th meeting. He has a sound system, but we would need to find  
> projector and screen. The front can comfortably fit 30. He does have  
> free wifi.
>
> 
>
> As far as food, perhaps we can talk him into making some extra  
> salads boxes. Or we can just grab something after.
>
> Any objections or thoughts on use of this as our next venue? He said  
> he will not be offended if its not a perfect venue. On the other  
> hand, he has hosted a lot of different venues in the past ranging  
> from: doll collectors, poetry readings, bands, gender activist  
> groups, and all sort of things. Perhaps we will be the first group  
> of techie nerds, scientist, engineers, and scholars--or whatever we  
> are.
>
> Your thoughts.
>
> Brian Ray
> bray at sent.com
> http://kazavoo.com/blog
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 16:26:47 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:26:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] from x import * but reference it by x.myfunc?
Message-ID: <804e5c70804280726u1229ff28s1c734bb35701e908@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Is there a way I can import another file in a similar way as :

from x import *
but be able to reference it in my code as
x.myfunc()
x.dothis()
x.dothat()


Its less confusing that way where the function came from, but it takes
the advantage of having all the modules in the code I'm working.
Would there be any problems in doing such a thing.

Lucas

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 16:37:00 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] from x import * but reference it by x.myfunc?
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70804280726u1229ff28s1c734bb35701e908@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70804280726u1229ff28s1c734bb35701e908@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220804280737r57296b4ar3aca36faad62cdb6@mail.gmail.com>

I think you would just

import x

and that should let you use x.afunc(), etc.

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Lukasz Szybalski 
wrote:

> Hello,
> Is there a way I can import another file in a similar way as :
>
> from x import *
> but be able to reference it in my code as
> x.myfunc()
> x.dothis()
> x.dothat()
>
>
> Its less confusing that way where the function came from, but it takes
> the advantage of having all the modules in the code I'm working.
> Would there be any problems in doing such a thing.
>
> Lucas
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From szybalski at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 16:54:02 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:54:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] from x import * but reference it by x.myfunc?
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220804280737r57296b4ar3aca36faad62cdb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70804280726u1229ff28s1c734bb35701e908@mail.gmail.com>
	<58a5f2220804280737r57296b4ar3aca36faad62cdb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70804280754s293f5b82kb6e9ed6b703606af@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Adam Jenkins  wrote:
> I think you would just
>
> import x
>
> and that should let you use x.afunc(), etc.

That is what I was using.

Actually, I guess I will stick with import x but what is the proper
way to pass the loging module ?

mainfile.py
-------------------------------------
import logging

logging.basicConfig()

log = logging.getLogger("MyApp")
log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG) #set verbosity to show all messages of
severity >= DEBUG
#log.setLevel(logging.INFO) #set verbosity to show all messages of
severity >= DEBUG
log.info("Starting my app")

....code...
import x
...more code....
----------------------------------------
In mainfile.pyI can do log.warn('warning')

How do I use loging in file x.py?

x.py
-----------------------
....code...
log.warn('warning')
....code........
-----------------------

Doesn't know what log is. Do I have to reimport it in x.py or setup
global variable log, or ?

Lucas

From jquigley at jquigley.com  Mon Apr 28 17:34:08 2008
From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:34:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] from x import * but reference it by x.myfunc?
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70804280754s293f5b82kb6e9ed6b703606af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <804e5c70804280726u1229ff28s1c734bb35701e908@mail.gmail.com>	<58a5f2220804280737r57296b4ar3aca36faad62cdb6@mail.gmail.com>
	<804e5c70804280754s293f5b82kb6e9ed6b703606af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4815EE70.7060104@jquigley.com>

Lukasz Szybalski wrote:
> How do I use loging in file x.py?

The semantics of the logging module are similar in nature to that of log4j.  When you first configure the logging module (in your case with basicConfig()), that configuration becomes "sticky" via module data in 'logging'.  You'll not have to configure logging elsewhere in the same application unless you want to alter behavior.

Each source file that needs to perform logging will need to import the logging module.  'log' variables behave in the standard way, and are either global or lexical.  Within any lexical block, if you want to log, you'll need to either acquire a global variable (if one exists within that source file) with 'global log,' make use of a class data member, or you'll have to generate another logger via logging.getLogger('myLexicalBlock').

Hope this helps.

- John Quigley

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 18:39:05 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:39:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
Message-ID: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>

Hello everybody,

I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here  
is a draft:

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf

I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so if  
I do, could you please correct me?

Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of  
features. Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias  
towards what I consider important.
Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you  
consider important and may be missing from the list.

Massimo

From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 18:42:44 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:42:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] New Venue: The Fixx on Shefield
In-Reply-To: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>
References: <79837529-D337-491A-AB5F-13D347215A61@sent.com>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0804280942w1356944dyd17182be31ce7c90@mail.gmail.com>

sounds fine if somebody can bring a projector & screen... can anyone?
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From korpios at korpios.com  Mon Apr 28 19:06:56 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
>  I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a
> draft:
>
>  http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>
>  I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so if I do,
> could you please correct me?
>
>  Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of features.
> Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias towards what I
> consider important.
>  Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you consider
> important and may be missing from the list.

Django is what I'm involved with (both on the OSS side and as our web
framework of choice at work), so I looked your comparison over with an
eye towards that.

Left outer joins: You might want to specify that you're only listing
if it's possible with the ORM, since Django (and perhaps other
frameworks) always allows you to drop out to raw SQL if need be.  I
haven't had too much of a chance to play with the new
queryset-refactor code that was just merged in, so perhaps glance over
that.

Migrations: You might want to make the table state "automatic
migrations" or "assisted migrations" or somesuch; working directly
against the database, it's always possible to effect a migration.  ;-)

Multiple databases: I believe that's in a branch, not a hack.

JSON: Django *includes* simplejson.

Documentation: You're really selling the Django docs short; there's
the online docs; separate from that, there's at least two books in
print (one of which is open-sourced and available online), with more
books on the way.

A few of the other things will be "yes" in the near future; many
others, of course, simply come down to disagreements over whether
something is a "feature" at all (and I find it odd that you haven't
looked at Zope, since much of what you're touting as features is
Zope-style: the web-based programming, configuration, etc.) -- but
it's your comparison, so you get to spin it however you want.  ;-)

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 19:16:30 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:16:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a 
> draft:
> 
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
> 
> I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so if I 
> do, could you please correct me?
> 
> Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of 
> features. Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias 
> towards what I consider important.
> Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you 
> consider important and may be missing from the list.

I'm not sure what you mean by Byte Code Compilation.  If you mean: a 
documented method of distributing byte code without source code, then 
yeah.  Any Python system can be distributed like that.  Projects I work 
on don't document that because we generally think it's silly and 
obstructionist (but people do ask about it every so often).  Note also 
that you can decompile Python bytecode to fairly readable source (better 
than Java).

Pylons also includes error emailing.

Re: App Engine: Pylons applications, when developed locally with the 
limitations of App Engine (including things like version requirements), 
can be run unmodified on App Engine.  Though admittedly without running 
the SDK you won't have the Datastore, and so you couldn't do much of 
interest without an abstraction library that worked over the Datastore 
and some other storage.

Pylons supports multiple caching backends, not just memcached.  They are 
listed here: 
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/beaker/Configuration+Options#ConfigurationOptions-type

I'm not sure about the distinction between i18n built-in or third party. 
  Pylons sets up a _() function by default (the standard convention for 
this).  There are i18n libraries developed in conjunction with Pylons.

SQLObject is "SQLObject", not "SQLObjects"

Left outer joins are possible in SQLObject, but not using the ORM: 
http://sqlobject.org/SQLObject.html#left-join-and-other-joins

Re: multiple databases -- I'm not entirely clear what you mean.  You can 
connect to multiple databases.

Re: double submit: Django includes this: 
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/csrf/
Pylons includes this: 
http://pylonshq.com/docs/module-pylons.decorators.secure.html

Re: simplejson/Django -- don't they include simplejson directly, just 
like web2py?

Re: file streaming -- I'm not sure what you mean.  Depending on what you 
mean, it may or may not be correct for any number of frameworks.

Pylons supports If-Modified-Since and other headers by default (when you 
serve a file using paste.fileapp.FileApp), including Range requests and 
ETags.


-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 19:25:11 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:25:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>

> TurboGears (because TG2 is not that  different from Pylons+SQLAlchemy+Genshi)

Pretty drastic oversimplification of what's different about them. You
should do some more research on this one, or just don't say that. For
example, TG2 has ToscaWidgets and IIRC uses a different default JS lib
(is it still MochiKit?). (Which you could use w/Pylons or not.). At
PyCon, Mark Ramm explained it as a philosophical difference -- Pylons
is to Debian as TG2 is to Ubuntu. -- TG2 makes a lot of default
choices for you, Pylons lets you pick any components you want.

Re: web-based DB admin interface:
I'm not sure that having to add a plug-in or type 'script/generate
scaffold pizza' is quite the same thing as "no"

Re: Generic CRUD
same as previous comment

Re: Zero Installation
RoR (and SQLite3) is pre-installed on Macs since Leopard 10.5, so
that's not true in every situation.

Re: Zero Configuration
Considering that the default config files you get with Pylons, RoR,
and TurboGears (to my knowledge) work immediately without any tweaking
necessary, this is a very exaggerated claim (I can say from experience
that you can get pretty far along without ever touching those
files--not quite to deployment, but almost).

Re: Templates
Mako, Genshi, and ERB AFAIK don't *require* any indentation, but you
can use it if you want to make your templates more readable.

Re: I18N
RoR can do it, but it's not built in:
http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Internationalization

What do you mean by "CRUD methods"? Sounds like you mean REST? Anyway,
Pylons has the same routing ability as RoR ("Routes" is a direct port
-- see http://routes.groovie.org/), if that's what you mean.

Included Ajax Lib: Pylons uses WebHelpers, which includes
Prototype/Scriptaculous (it's an almost-port of Rails' ERB webhelpers:
mostly the same stuff)

HTH.
---Isaac

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:00:31 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:00:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	
Message-ID: <92C19F8F-723D-4188-811E-A78EEB63FD93@cs.depaul.edu>

Thank you  Tom,

I believe I have incorporated all your suggestions with some caveats:
1) the ability to do something using raw SQL does not count as a "yes"
2) Things that will be a "yes" in the future do not count as a "yes"  
now but I will update the manual when they are available.
3) I dare to say that the online documentation of web2py is better  
than the online documentation of Django (there are as many exmaples,  
a 120 pages book, all examples have syntax highlighting and if you  
click you get help on any command, there is an interactive FAQ that  
understands english questions and a repository of free plugin  
applications, including wikis, blogs, estore, etc.)

On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Tom Tobin wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>>  I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks.  
>> Here is a
>> draft:
>>
>>  http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>>
>>  I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks  
>> so if I do,
>> could you please correct me?
>>
>>  Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of  
>> features.
>> Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias towards  
>> what I
>> consider important.
>>  Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you  
>> consider
>> important and may be missing from the list.
>
> Django is what I'm involved with (both on the OSS side and as our web
> framework of choice at work), so I looked your comparison over with an
> eye towards that.
>
> Left outer joins: You might want to specify that you're only listing
> if it's possible with the ORM, since Django (and perhaps other
> frameworks) always allows you to drop out to raw SQL if need be.  I
> haven't had too much of a chance to play with the new
> queryset-refactor code that was just merged in, so perhaps glance over
> that.
>
> Migrations: You might want to make the table state "automatic
> migrations" or "assisted migrations" or somesuch; working directly
> against the database, it's always possible to effect a migration.  ;-)
>
> Multiple databases: I believe that's in a branch, not a hack.
>
> JSON: Django *includes* simplejson.
>
> Documentation: You're really selling the Django docs short; there's
> the online docs; separate from that, there's at least two books in
> print (one of which is open-sourced and available online), with more
> books on the way.
>
> A few of the other things will be "yes" in the near future; many
> others, of course, simply come down to disagreements over whether
> something is a "feature" at all (and I find it odd that you haven't
> looked at Zope, since much of what you're touting as features is
> Zope-style: the web-based programming, configuration, etc.) -- but
> it's your comparison, so you get to spin it however you want.  ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:05:37 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:05:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>

Thank you Ian,

I think I incorporated almost all of your suggestions too although I  
do not think that using FileApp for streaming is quite as easy as the  
web2py.

I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases.  
Would you mind posting an example?

About bytecode compilation. Send me a working Pylons bytecode  
compiled application (including bytecode compiled models, views and  
controllers) and the step you took to make it and I will believe you.

Yes all bytecode compiled code can be decompiled (this is true for  
Java and ASP as well) but for some people it is important. In the  
case of web2py there are two reasons for it: 1) speed, there is no  
more template parsing with bytecode compiled apps, 2) you are not  
explicitly giving away the source code (if you decompile you do not  
get exactly the same original code).

Massimo

On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks.  
>> Here is a
>> draft:
>>
>> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>>
>> I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so  
>> if I
>> do, could you please correct me?
>>
>> Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of
>> features. Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias
>> towards what I consider important.
>> Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you
>> consider important and may be missing from the list.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by Byte Code Compilation.  If you mean: a
> documented method of distributing byte code without source code, then
> yeah.  Any Python system can be distributed like that.  Projects I  
> work
> on don't document that because we generally think it's silly and
> obstructionist (but people do ask about it every so often).  Note also
> that you can decompile Python bytecode to fairly readable source  
> (better
> than Java).
>
> Pylons also includes error emailing.
>
> Re: App Engine: Pylons applications, when developed locally with the
> limitations of App Engine (including things like version  
> requirements),
> can be run unmodified on App Engine.  Though admittedly without  
> running
> the SDK you won't have the Datastore, and so you couldn't do much of
> interest without an abstraction library that worked over the Datastore
> and some other storage.
>
> Pylons supports multiple caching backends, not just memcached.   
> They are
> listed here:
> http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/beaker/Configuration 
> +Options#ConfigurationOptions-type
>
> I'm not sure about the distinction between i18n built-in or third  
> party.
>   Pylons sets up a _() function by default (the standard convention  
> for
> this).  There are i18n libraries developed in conjunction with Pylons.
>
> SQLObject is "SQLObject", not "SQLObjects"
>
> Left outer joins are possible in SQLObject, but not using the ORM:
> http://sqlobject.org/SQLObject.html#left-join-and-other-joins
>
> Re: multiple databases -- I'm not entirely clear what you mean.   
> You can
> connect to multiple databases.
>
> Re: double submit: Django includes this:
> http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/csrf/
> Pylons includes this:
> http://pylonshq.com/docs/module-pylons.decorators.secure.html
>
> Re: simplejson/Django -- don't they include simplejson directly, just
> like web2py?
>
> Re: file streaming -- I'm not sure what you mean.  Depending on  
> what you
> mean, it may or may not be correct for any number of frameworks.
>
> Pylons supports If-Modified-Since and other headers by default  
> (when you
> serve a file using paste.fileapp.FileApp), including Range requests  
> and
> ETags.
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Apr 28 20:10:43 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:10:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a 
> draft:
> 
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
> 

a little django stuff, lots of basic proof reading edits.

----------
p10

The web2py web based administrative
interface allow to do development,

allows you to

The same
functionality can be access via the Python
shell

accessed
-----------
p11 - up the font
p12 - ok, maybe leave the font alone...
-----------
p22
                             All other
frameworks requires some type of
configurations.

require
configuration.

web2py applications can have configuration
files

missing .
-----------
p24
       (with the limitations provided by the
App Engine)

limitations imposed, missing .

"database abstraction layers"

probably singular: layer

"supports the Google Query Language"

missing .

-----------
p25 - caching - django has more options:

     * Memcached
     * Database caching
     * Filesystem caching
     * Local-memory caching

"you have to tell it where your cached data should live ? whether in a database, 
on the filesystem or directly in memory. "

http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/
-----------
p26

"There?s nothing about Django that requires using the template language, so if 
you?re attached to ZPT, Cheetah, or whatever, feel free to use those."

http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/#i-can-t-stand-your-template-language-do-i-have-to-use-it
-----------

p27
                                ( for
example web2py can use Genshi, Pylons
can use web2py?s)

(for
missing .

-----------
p33 -
missing .
missing .
-----------
p35 -
missing .
-----------
p33 -
missing .
------------
  In web2py if one changes the data model, it
  automatically and transparently generates
  and executes SQL to ALTER TABLEs. There
  is no special command to type like in Rails.

When do you plan on fixing that? :)
------------
p49
"Obviously"
poor form, condescending, etc.
If it is obvious, don't bother.
------------
p51
Django - the 'recommended' way to deal with files is to not have django service 
the request, but let apache or whatever web server handle those URLs.  This is 
good, because python seems to be a poor choice for moving 'large' amounts of 
data 'like this.'

A few weeks ago I tried to use a python bittorrent client on a LAN and noticed 
that python was using 95% cpu and was only getting under 10% of my 100mb 
network.  at least I think this is what was happening.  it was enough to make me 
realize that it is probably a bad idea to try to use python for "this."

So to me, the way this is presented suggests a problem with web2py.  you do say 
"by default" so I am assuming that it can be easily changed, so I have 0.0 clue 
if it really is a problem, just commenting on the impression I got from the slide.

------------
p55
missing . at end of each line
comes with the cherrypy
missing . cherry.py

------------

A comment on your overall marketing effort: put more emphasis on the 
educational/ low entry/low investment.  I think the choices you are comparing 
against are too complicated and too apples/oranges for your target audience to 
really comprehend and make and educated choice.   It makes me think of being 
given a week to evaluate the various countries space technology and having to 
pick one to get a satellite put in orbit.  heck if I know what is important, so 
I am going to go with whats popular, or comfortable, and all those other Dilbert 
Guide to Management techniques.

So point out that you have an Orange, and no one else has Oranges; then convince 
the people that need Oranges that they need an Orange, and your Orange becomes 
the obvious choice.

You may have a better Apple, but you are late in the Apple game, so at a 
disadvantage.

Carl K






From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:12:05 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

You confirmed my point. If it can be done with Pylons, it can be done  
with TG2 and vice versa. JS differences do not really count. Any  
framework can use any JS library. I should add that I like the TG and  
the TG philosophy, web2py follows the same one.

I am only comparing features that are "out of the box". Python is a  
Turing complete language and, therefore, obviously, any framework can  
do everything in principle.

Pre-installed is not the same as "no installation required". Quite  
the opposite I would say. web2py do not even require that you have  
python.

What I mean by zero configuration is not that you do not need to  
configure it. What I mean is that there is no configuration you can  
tweak. There is no framework level parameter that you can change and  
make your applications not portable.

Massimo



On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:25 PM, isaac wrote:

>> TurboGears (because TG2 is not that  different from Pylons 
>> +SQLAlchemy+Genshi)
>
> Pretty drastic oversimplification of what's different about them. You
> should do some more research on this one, or just don't say that. For
> example, TG2 has ToscaWidgets and IIRC uses a different default JS lib
> (is it still MochiKit?). (Which you could use w/Pylons or not.). At
> PyCon, Mark Ramm explained it as a philosophical difference -- Pylons
> is to Debian as TG2 is to Ubuntu. -- TG2 makes a lot of default
> choices for you, Pylons lets you pick any components you want.
>
> Re: web-based DB admin interface:
> I'm not sure that having to add a plug-in or type 'script/generate
> scaffold pizza' is quite the same thing as "no"
>
> Re: Generic CRUD
> same as previous comment
>
> Re: Zero Installation
> RoR (and SQLite3) is pre-installed on Macs since Leopard 10.5, so
> that's not true in every situation.
>
> Re: Zero Configuration
> Considering that the default config files you get with Pylons, RoR,
> and TurboGears (to my knowledge) work immediately without any tweaking
> necessary, this is a very exaggerated claim (I can say from experience
> that you can get pretty far along without ever touching those
> files--not quite to deployment, but almost).
>
> Re: Templates
> Mako, Genshi, and ERB AFAIK don't *require* any indentation, but you
> can use it if you want to make your templates more readable.
>
> Re: I18N
> RoR can do it, but it's not built in:
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Internationalization
>
> What do you mean by "CRUD methods"? Sounds like you mean REST? Anyway,
> Pylons has the same routing ability as RoR ("Routes" is a direct port
> -- see http://routes.groovie.org/), if that's what you mean.
>
> Included Ajax Lib: Pylons uses WebHelpers, which includes
> Prototype/Scriptaculous (it's an almost-port of Rails' ERB webhelpers:
> mostly the same stuff)
>
> HTH.
> ---Isaac
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:13:19 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:13:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <7F7E09AC-B030-4A62-BBBC-84D6715BCCC2@cs.depaul.edu>

Thank you. I really appreciate this!

Massimo

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks.  
>> Here is a
>> draft:
>>
>> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>>
>
> a little django stuff, lots of basic proof reading edits.
>
> ----------
> p10
>
> The web2py web based administrative
> interface allow to do development,
>
> allows you to
>
> The same
> functionality can be access via the Python
> shell
>
> accessed
> -----------
> p11 - up the font
> p12 - ok, maybe leave the font alone...
> -----------
> p22
>                              All other
> frameworks requires some type of
> configurations.
>
> require
> configuration.
>
> web2py applications can have configuration
> files
>
> missing .
> -----------
> p24
>        (with the limitations provided by the
> App Engine)
>
> limitations imposed, missing .
>
> "database abstraction layers"
>
> probably singular: layer
>
> "supports the Google Query Language"
>
> missing .
>
> -----------
> p25 - caching - django has more options:
>
>      * Memcached
>      * Database caching
>      * Filesystem caching
>      * Local-memory caching
>
> "you have to tell it where your cached data should live ? whether  
> in a database,
> on the filesystem or directly in memory. "
>
> http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/
> -----------
> p26
>
> "There?s nothing about Django that requires using the template  
> language, so if
> you?re attached to ZPT, Cheetah, or whatever, feel free to use those."
>
> http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/#i-can-t-stand-your- 
> template-language-do-i-have-to-use-it
> -----------
>
> p27
>                                 ( for
> example web2py can use Genshi, Pylons
> can use web2py?s)
>
> (for
> missing .
>
> -----------
> p33 -
> missing .
> missing .
> -----------
> p35 -
> missing .
> -----------
> p33 -
> missing .
> ------------
>   In web2py if one changes the data model, it
>   automatically and transparently generates
>   and executes SQL to ALTER TABLEs. There
>   is no special command to type like in Rails.
>
> When do you plan on fixing that? :)
> ------------
> p49
> "Obviously"
> poor form, condescending, etc.
> If it is obvious, don't bother.
> ------------
> p51
> Django - the 'recommended' way to deal with files is to not have  
> django service
> the request, but let apache or whatever web server handle those  
> URLs.  This is
> good, because python seems to be a poor choice for moving 'large'  
> amounts of
> data 'like this.'
>
> A few weeks ago I tried to use a python bittorrent client on a LAN  
> and noticed
> that python was using 95% cpu and was only getting under 10% of my  
> 100mb
> network.  at least I think this is what was happening.  it was  
> enough to make me
> realize that it is probably a bad idea to try to use python for  
> "this."
>
> So to me, the way this is presented suggests a problem with  
> web2py.  you do say
> "by default" so I am assuming that it can be easily changed, so I  
> have 0.0 clue
> if it really is a problem, just commenting on the impression I got  
> from the slide.
>
> ------------
> p55
> missing . at end of each line
> comes with the cherrypy
> missing . cherry.py
>
> ------------
>
> A comment on your overall marketing effort: put more emphasis on the
> educational/ low entry/low investment.  I think the choices you are  
> comparing
> against are too complicated and too apples/oranges for your target  
> audience to
> really comprehend and make and educated choice.   It makes me think  
> of being
> given a week to evaluate the various countries space technology and  
> having to
> pick one to get a satellite put in orbit.  heck if I know what is  
> important, so
> I am going to go with whats popular, or comfortable, and all those  
> other Dilbert
> Guide to Management techniques.
>
> So point out that you have an Orange, and no one else has Oranges;  
> then convince
> the people that need Oranges that they need an Orange, and your  
> Orange becomes
> the obvious choice.
>
> You may have a better Apple, but you are late in the Apple game, so  
> at a
> disadvantage.
>
> Carl K
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 20:18:06 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:18:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Thank you Ian,
> 
> I think I incorporated almost all of your suggestions too although I do 
> not think that using FileApp for streaming is quite as easy as the web2py.

Perhaps not, but it is the way to do it, and it does support all those 
features, and it was factored the way it is so you could do that sort of 
thing.

> I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases. 
> Would you mind posting an example?

I'm not that familiar with the way databases are setup and configured in 
Pylons, so I'm not sure.

> About bytecode compilation. Send me a working Pylons bytecode compiled 
> application (including bytecode compiled models, views and controllers) 
> and the step you took to make it and I will believe you.

Well, I've never tried, and I don't want to bother to try because I 
think it's a silly thing to do.  There are generally applicable 
techniques for Python (like python -m compileall; find . -name '*.py' 
-exec rm {} \;).  It's possible Pylons looks for *.py files or something 
in some contexts (e.g., listing controllers), and so doesn't work with 
the source removed, so I can't say for sure if this would work by itself.

> Yes all bytecode compiled code can be decompiled (this is true for Java 
> and ASP as well) but for some people it is important. In the case of 
> web2py there are two reasons for it: 1) speed, there is no more template 
> parsing with bytecode compiled apps, 2) you are not explicitly giving 
> away the source code (if you decompile you do not get exactly the same 
> original code).

There's no speed advantage: all Python code is all bytecode compiled on 
demand.  Python does this automatically without any intervention.  Mako 
and several other templating languages replicate this behavior.  Also 
several distutils commands invoke bytecode compilation.


-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 20:40:23 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:40:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220804281140y642d238ew60ffa4f40a53de9f@mail.gmail.com>

Uhh, Pg. 5 php isn't written on top of perl, it's written in C

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a
> draft:
>
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>
> I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so if I
> do, could you please correct me?
>
> Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of features.
> Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias towards what I
> consider important.
> Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you consider
> important and may be missing from the list.
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 20:44:49 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:44:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>	<57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <48161B21.2010508@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> What I mean by zero configuration is not that you do not need to 
> configure it. What I mean is that there is no configuration you can 
> tweak. There is no framework level parameter that you can change and 
> make your applications not portable.

Now this seems to be getting a bit confused.  There can be two types of 
configuration: configuring your application for the deployment 
environment, and configuration the framework for your application.  An 
example of the first would be a database configuration parameter (which 
web2py embeds in the source, which frankly gives it a scrappy PHP feel 
with regard to configuration).  An example of the second kind of 
configuration would be stuff like indicating a default charset or 
template engine.

TG 1 mixed these two.  Pylons very carefully does not mix these two (the 
second kind of configuration goes in config/middleware.py and 
config/environment.py, and for typical applications those don't need to 
be edited).  TG 2 as a result doesn't mix these two.  I've seen 
criticisms of Django that it does mix these two, though I don't know 
much about the details.

I think it's a good point of comparison, but it requires considerable 
explanation.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:52:21 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:52:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>

The speedup is not because of the bytecode compilation. But in order  
to bytecode compile web2py parses the templates and resolves all the  
includes and extend thus turning the entire template hierarchy for  
each page into a single python file which is then bytecode compiled.  
My users see a lot of speedup. In particular those users who run on  
smartphones and other platforms like the Nokia N800. I do not know  
whether Make does the same (that is why I asked) but probably now if  
you say there is no speed-up.

I updated the document based on your original comments but I have a  
philosophical question: if a feature is not documented and there is  
no example, is it really there?

Massimo


On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> Thank you Ian,
>>
>> I think I incorporated almost all of your suggestions too although  
>> I do
>> not think that using FileApp for streaming is quite as easy as the  
>> web2py.
>
> Perhaps not, but it is the way to do it, and it does support all those
> features, and it was factored the way it is so you could do that  
> sort of
> thing.
>
>> I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases.
>> Would you mind posting an example?
>
> I'm not that familiar with the way databases are setup and  
> configured in
> Pylons, so I'm not sure.
>
>> About bytecode compilation. Send me a working Pylons bytecode  
>> compiled
>> application (including bytecode compiled models, views and  
>> controllers)
>> and the step you took to make it and I will believe you.
>
> Well, I've never tried, and I don't want to bother to try because I
> think it's a silly thing to do.  There are generally applicable
> techniques for Python (like python -m compileall; find . -name '*.py'
> -exec rm {} \;).  It's possible Pylons looks for *.py files or  
> something
> in some contexts (e.g., listing controllers), and so doesn't work with
> the source removed, so I can't say for sure if this would work by  
> itself.
>
>> Yes all bytecode compiled code can be decompiled (this is true for  
>> Java
>> and ASP as well) but for some people it is important. In the case of
>> web2py there are two reasons for it: 1) speed, there is no more  
>> template
>> parsing with bytecode compiled apps, 2) you are not explicitly giving
>> away the source code (if you decompile you do not get exactly the  
>> same
>> original code).
>
> There's no speed advantage: all Python code is all bytecode  
> compiled on
> demand.  Python does this automatically without any intervention.   
> Mako
> and several other templating languages replicate this behavior.  Also
> several distutils commands invoke bytecode compilation.
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:55:46 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:55:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <48161B21.2010508@colorstudy.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<48161B21.2010508@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <13B91889-E12D-441B-BAE5-87F8432F4C8F@cs.depaul.edu>

>   An example of the first would be a database configuration  
> parameter (which
> web2py embeds in the source, which frankly gives it a scrappy PHP feel
> with regard to configuration).

Not sure what you mean. web2py you specify a connection string in the  
application configuration (in my examples I do in the model files)  
because every app has its own databases. It is not in the controllers  
or in the views (which PHP mix up).

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 20:57:44 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:57:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <58a5f2220804281140y642d238ew60ffa4f40a53de9f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804281140y642d238ew60ffa4f40a53de9f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BACEBE8-C933-4AED-B25F-E48C4FEB08DC@cs.depaul.edu>

python is also written in C and so is Java. What I meant to say is  
that the PHP syntax is derived from Perl. I will say "Perl  
derivative". Sounds ok?

Massimo

On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Adam Jenkins wrote:

> Uhh, Pg. 5 php isn't written on top of perl, it's written in C
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro  
>  wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here  
> is a draft:
>
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
>
> I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so  
> if I do, could you please correct me?
>
> Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of  
> features. Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias  
> towards what I consider important.
> Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you  
> consider important and may be missing from the list.
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> 

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From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Mon Apr 28 21:00:13 2008
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <0D9156A2-979D-4C65-9445-D85E32F6F795@phaedrusdeinus.org>

On Apr 28, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here  
> is a draft:
> http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf

Your inclusion of PHP is problematic: it's difficult to call it a  
framework, as it's really a language. And it's not implemented in Perl  
(nor has it, to my knowledge, ever been).

If you want a Perl framework, Catalyst is the current most popular  
one. The author of the book on Catalyst lives in Chicago and attends  
Chicago.pm meetings, if you want to contact him for details.

Re: "zero-install", as someone else mentioned, Rails is included in  
the most recent OSX. However, there's also Locomotive, which is a  
Rails/server/db bundle for OSX. But the whole thing is a bit  
disingenuous: any of the Python web frameworks can be packaged on a  
USB drive fairly easily. It's a bit like the "bytecode" issue. If you  
want to point out that web2py has a nice tool to bc-compile, or to  
bundle on a thumb drive, cool. Saying that you can't do it with the  
other frameworks is a very different truth level.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Web Helpers".

-johnnnnnnn



From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 21:01:56 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:01:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <0BACEBE8-C933-4AED-B25F-E48C4FEB08DC@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<58a5f2220804281140y642d238ew60ffa4f40a53de9f@mail.gmail.com>
	<0BACEBE8-C933-4AED-B25F-E48C4FEB08DC@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220804281201n7ac2e332iff3442cecce06379@mail.gmail.com>

Yea, but you'd have to be more specific in the table then. I like the
freshmeat description,

"PHP is a widely-used Open Source general-purpose scripting language ... Its
syntax draws upon C, Java, and Perl..."

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:57 PM, Massimo Di Pierro 
wrote:

> python is also written in C and so is Java. What I meant to say is that
> the PHP syntax is derived from Perl. I will say "Perl derivative". Sounds
> ok?
> Massimo
>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Adam Jenkins wrote:
>
> Uhh, Pg. 5 php isn't written on top of perl, it's written in C
>
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro <
> mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a
> > draft:
> >
> > http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
> >
> > I do not want to say something incorrect about other frameworks so if I
> > do, could you please correct me?
> >
> > Please do not criticize my choice of comparables or my choice of
> > features. Since I am writing this I am allowed to introduce a bias towards
> > what I consider important.
> > Nevertheless I will appreciate suggestions about things that you
> > consider important and may be missing from the list.
> >
> > Massimo
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
> 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 21:11:19 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:11:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <0D9156A2-979D-4C65-9445-D85E32F6F795@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<0D9156A2-979D-4C65-9445-D85E32F6F795@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <3db160680804281211p1679aa88ga85cb5d9d7fc8e87@mail.gmail.com>

I like the documentation comment about how j2ee has "too many published
books".
Also, not sure if this is a common feature, I know it wasnt in rails. Will
your ORM reflect SQL constraints? How does web2py "automatically" validate
fields?

Dan



On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:00 PM, John Melesky 
wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> > I am writing a comparison between web2py and other frameworks. Here is a
> > draft:
> > http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/examples/static/web2py_vs_others.pdf
> >
>
> Your inclusion of PHP is problematic: it's difficult to call it a
> framework, as it's really a language. And it's not implemented in Perl (nor
> has it, to my knowledge, ever been).
>
> If you want a Perl framework, Catalyst is the current most popular one.
> The author of the book on Catalyst lives in Chicago and attends Chicago.pm
> meetings, if you want to contact him for details.
>
> Re: "zero-install", as someone else mentioned, Rails is included in the
> most recent OSX. However, there's also Locomotive, which is a
> Rails/server/db bundle for OSX. But the whole thing is a bit disingenuous:
> any of the Python web frameworks can be packaged on a USB drive fairly
> easily. It's a bit like the "bytecode" issue. If you want to point out that
> web2py has a nice tool to bc-compile, or to bundle on a thumb drive, cool.
> Saying that you can't do it with the other frameworks is a very different
> truth level.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "Web Helpers".
>
> -johnnnnnnn
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 21:17:27 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:17:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <13B91889-E12D-441B-BAE5-87F8432F4C8F@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>	<57427b5b0804281025h3af20769x985d34d17e94686a@mail.gmail.com>		<48161B21.2010508@colorstudy.com>
	<13B91889-E12D-441B-BAE5-87F8432F4C8F@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <481622C7.5040509@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>   An example of the first would be a database configuration parameter 
>> (which
>> web2py embeds in the source, which frankly gives it a scrappy PHP feel
>> with regard to configuration).
> 
> Not sure what you mean. web2py you specify a connection string in the 
> application configuration (in my examples I do in the model files) 
> because every app has its own databases. It is not in the controllers or 
> in the views (which PHP mix up).

I only noticed it in the examples you did -- if that's just a shorthand 
you used for doing live examples, but there's a clearer way to set up 
that configuration, then that's fine I guess.  The norm in PHP is, I 
think, to have every page include some file and that file contains 
variable assignments which make up the configuration.  As such the 
difference between code and configuration is blurred.

So, if web2py has application configuration, is the real distinction 
between that and Pylons just that applications start with a kind of null 
configuration that is enough for it to work?  Pylons technically doesn't 
need any configuration parameters for a basic application to run, but it 
does need a configuration file to refer to the application you are 
running.  That configuration file itself is, in this basic state, kind 
of equivalent to the web-based setup of applications in web2py.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From korpios at korpios.com  Mon Apr 28 21:18:49 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:18:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <92C19F8F-723D-4188-811E-A78EEB63FD93@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	
	<92C19F8F-723D-4188-811E-A78EEB63FD93@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Thank you  Tom,
>
>  I believe I have incorporated all your suggestions with some caveats:
>  1) the ability to do something using raw SQL does not count as a "yes"

That's fine -- just make that clear.

>  2) Things that will be a "yes" in the future do not count as a "yes" now
> but I will update the manual when they are available.

Fair enough.

>  3) I dare to say that the online documentation of web2py is better than the
> online documentation of Django (there are as many exmaples, a 120 pages
> book, all examples have syntax highlighting and if you click you get help on
> any command, there is an interactive FAQ that understands english questions
> and a repository of free plugin applications, including wikis, blogs,
> estore, etc.)

That's subjective; what's not is that Django has more than "one book",
and that's what I was largely concerned with.

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 21:30:02 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:30:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	<7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <481625BA.4080905@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> The speedup is not because of the bytecode compilation. But in order to 
> bytecode compile web2py parses the templates and resolves all the 
> includes and extend thus turning the entire template hierarchy for each 
> page into a single python file which is then bytecode compiled. My users 
> see a lot of speedup. In particular those users who run on smartphones 
> and other platforms like the Nokia N800. I do not know whether Make does 
> the same (that is why I asked) but probably now if you say there is no 
> speed-up.

Mako doesn't resolve inheritance into a single file, but that's just a 
single function call overhead.  There's lots of possible performance 
hacks along those lines in Python, some of which are helpful and some of 
which aren't that helpful.  I would be quite surprised if that 
particular optimization is noticeable.  Mako does bytecode compile all 
components that make up a template.

If you want to measure performance, then measure performance.  The 
Genshi people have set up some common benchmark infrastructure for 
Python templating languages, you could get web2py's templating language 
setup in that system.  If you are particularly interested in performance 
it could be a useful basis for improving performance (which was the 
original reason for setting it up, as Genshi developers wanted some 
baseline for measuring their own performance improvements).

Another concern is the debuggability of templates: how do they show up 
in tracebacks?  I consider this a fairly important feature of templating 
languages.  From what I saw in web2py, it looks like you have to infer 
the corresponding template code from the Python translated source.  Mako 
doesn't make this compromise, even for compiled templates, and so among 
other things it can't compile multiple files down to a single file.

> I updated the document based on your original comments but I have a 
> philosophical question: if a feature is not documented and there is no 
> example, is it really there?

Well, it is documented *somewhere*.  Pylons does have a problem with 
fractured documentation, spread out over several projects.  I won't 
argue with that criticism, and there is effort going on to fix this. 
But if you remove every feature with no easily accessible documentation, 
then Pylons kind of disappears ;)

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 21:30:32 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	<7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0804281230h2c254f63s833cba8a927b2360@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> The speedup is not because of the bytecode compilation. But in order to
> bytecode compile web2py parses the templates and resolves all the includes
> and extend thus turning the entire template hierarchy for each page into a
> single python file which is then bytecode compiled. My users see a lot of
> speedup. In particular those users who run on smartphones and other
> platforms like the Nokia N800. I do not know whether Make does the same
> (that is why I asked) but probably now if you say there is no speed-up.
>

Mako first compiles templates (and their dependencies) into
well-commented Python code you can  read (the comments refer to the
errant line# in your template, so debugging is easy). It's *amazingly*
fast. Similar to what you're saying web2py does, except not all in one
big file.

HTH
--i

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 21:35:24 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:35:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>

I incorporated almost all your suggested corrections. Thank you  
again. I would like to address some of them here.

> "you have to tell it where your cached data should live ? whether  
> in a database,
> on the filesystem or directly in memory. "

But if I am not mistaken in Django and Pylons you specify this once  
for all. You cannot cache a function in ram, another one in disk, one  
select on memcache, one view in ram, disk and memcache (piped). Do  
you have this level of flexibility in Django/Pylons?

>   In web2py if one changes the data model, it
>   automatically and transparently generates
>   and executes SQL to ALTER TABLEs. There
>   is no special command to type like in Rails.
>
> When do you plan on fixing that? :)

You can set db.define_table(.....,migrate=False) and it will not  
perform migration. It will assume the table is there. ;-)

> Django - the 'recommended' way to deal with files is to not have  
> django service
> the request, but let apache or whatever web server handle those  
> URLs.  This is
> good, because python seems to be a poor choice for moving 'large'  
> amounts of
> data 'like this.'

The problem is that sometime you need to perform authentication of a  
large file (for example a video stream) and you cannot rely on  
apache. Some problem if the file you want to serve is actually  
generated. For example if you scan my machine for .php files you get  
an infinite file being streamed to you. I would not know how to do  
that with Django. Perhaps it is possible.

>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 21:40:23 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:40:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <57427b5b0804281230h2c254f63s833cba8a927b2360@mail.gmail.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	<7745057C-E032-4AD0-89D5-3998670A072D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<57427b5b0804281230h2c254f63s833cba8a927b2360@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

I guess web2py is similar to Mako in this respect. When I say one big  
file, I mean one per controller.

in fact on can have a file extending A which extends B which extends  
C which itself includes D,E,F etc. It may be a lot of IO if the page  
structure is complex and this is not compiled into a single file.

Anyway, thanks everybody for your help and suggestions.

Massimo

On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:30 PM, isaac wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> The speedup is not because of the bytecode compilation. But in  
>> order to
>> bytecode compile web2py parses the templates and resolves all the  
>> includes
>> and extend thus turning the entire template hierarchy for each  
>> page into a
>> single python file which is then bytecode compiled. My users see a  
>> lot of
>> speedup. In particular those users who run on smartphones and other
>> platforms like the Nokia N800. I do not know whether Make does the  
>> same
>> (that is why I asked) but probably now if you say there is no  
>> speed-up.
>>
>
> Mako first compiles templates (and their dependencies) into
> well-commented Python code you can  read (the comments refer to the
> errant line# in your template, so debugging is easy). It's *amazingly*
> fast. Similar to what you're saying web2py does, except not all in one
> big file.
>
> HTH
> --i
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 21:48:44 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:48:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>

> > Django - the 'recommended' way to deal with files is to not have django
> service
> > the request, but let apache or whatever web server handle those URLs.
> This is
> > good, because python seems to be a poor choice for moving 'large' amounts
> of
> > data 'like this.'
> >
>
>  The problem is that sometime you need to perform authentication of a large
> file (for example a video stream) and you cannot rely on apache. Some
> problem if the file you want to serve is actually generated. For example if
> you scan my machine for .php files you get an infinite file being streamed
> to you. I would not know how to do that with Django. Perhaps it is possible.
>
>

One option for streaming really large files that require
authentication is to create a symlink to the file with a random name
in a folder serviced by Apache (or nginex) and have it serve the file
(I can also think of creative ways to abuse basic auth).

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 21:55:15 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>

Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code

#in applications/security/controller/default.py
class Jammer():
   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())

in #routes.py
routes_in=(('.*(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)','/security/default/jam'),)

and it does not matter which web server you use.

Massimo


On Apr 28, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

>>> Django - the 'recommended' way to deal with files is to not have  
>>> django
>> service
>>> the request, but let apache or whatever web server handle those  
>>> URLs.
>> This is
>>> good, because python seems to be a poor choice for moving 'large'  
>>> amounts
>> of
>>> data 'like this.'
>>>
>>
>>  The problem is that sometime you need to perform authentication  
>> of a large
>> file (for example a video stream) and you cannot rely on apache. Some
>> problem if the file you want to serve is actually generated. For  
>> example if
>> you scan my machine for .php files you get an infinite file being  
>> streamed
>> to you. I would not know how to do that with Django. Perhaps it is  
>> possible.
>>
>>
>
> One option for streaming really large files that require
> authentication is to create a symlink to the file with a random name
> in a folder serviced by Apache (or nginex) and have it serve the file
> (I can also think of creative ways to abuse basic auth).
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 22:03:29 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:03:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0804281303xda77b2ifdf4ab144feb8a4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code
>
>  #in applications/security/controller/default.py
>  class Jammer():
>   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
>  def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())
>

I like how you managed to use 'def jam' in there.  :)

Also, you might wanna check with the Wachowski brothers about using
that pic. I hear they're setting up shop in town:
  ;)

--i

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 22:15:39 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:15:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Ian Bicking  wrote:
> > I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases. Would
> you mind posting an example?
> >

I can't find this documented anywhere but if you configure a Pylons
app with this structure (using SQLAlchemy 0.4),
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonsdocs/Using+SQLAlchemy+with+Pylons

... then, if you wanted to, say, connect to a read-only db and a
write-only db, you could update your config like this:

[app:main]
# ...
read_db.url = postgres://read_user:pw at readhost/read_db
#read_db.debug = True
write_db.url = postgres://write_user:pw at writehost/write_db

... and you could change environment.py to call init_model() like:

def load_environment(global_conf, app_conf):
    # ...
    read_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'read_db.')
    write_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'write_db.')
    init_model(read_engine, write_engine)

... and update the init_model() def in model/__init__.py to :

from sqlalchemy import orm
from myapp.model import meta

def init_model(read_engine, write_engine):
    ReadSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=False,
transactional=False, bind=read_engine))
    meta.read_metadata.bind = read_engine
    meta.read_session = ReadSession()
    # setup read mappers here..

    WriteSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=True,
transactional=True, bind=write_engine))
    meta.write_metadata.bind = write_engine
    meta.write_session = WriteSession()
    # setup write mappers here..


In other words, the config file is just a place to store values, any
values you want, and the environment.py module gives you the chance to
customize the initialization of your app any way you want.  You store
the initialization code wherever you want, Pylons doesn't force any
conventions on you other than by creating a default module layout when
you start your project.

Kumar

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 22:27:03 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:27:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Kumar McMillan
 wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Ian Bicking  wrote:
>  > > I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases. Would
>  > you mind posting an example?
>  > >
>
>  I can't find this documented anywhere but if you configure a Pylons
>  app with this structure (using SQLAlchemy 0.4),
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonsdocs/Using+SQLAlchemy+with+Pylons

duh, an example of multiple databases is actually at the bottom of
that same page! ;)

They suggest more or less the same thing but it's a little more
concise and the session construction is more sane ...

[app:main]
sqlalchemy.default.url = "mysql://..."
sqlalchemy.default.pool_recycle = 3600
sqlalchemy.log.url = "sqlite://..."

default_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.default.')
log_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.log.')
init_model(default_engine, log_engine)

...and so on


>
>  ... then, if you wanted to, say, connect to a read-only db and a
>  write-only db, you could update your config like this:
>
>  [app:main]
>  # ...
>  read_db.url = postgres://read_user:pw at readhost/read_db
>  #read_db.debug = True
>  write_db.url = postgres://write_user:pw at writehost/write_db
>
>  ... and you could change environment.py to call init_model() like:
>
>  def load_environment(global_conf, app_conf):
>     # ...
>     read_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'read_db.')
>     write_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'write_db.')
>     init_model(read_engine, write_engine)
>
>  ... and update the init_model() def in model/__init__.py to :
>
>  from sqlalchemy import orm
>  from myapp.model import meta
>
>  def init_model(read_engine, write_engine):
>     ReadSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=False,
>  transactional=False, bind=read_engine))
>     meta.read_metadata.bind = read_engine
>     meta.read_session = ReadSession()
>     # setup read mappers here..
>
>     WriteSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=True,
>  transactional=True, bind=write_engine))
>     meta.write_metadata.bind = write_engine
>     meta.write_session = WriteSession()
>     # setup write mappers here..
>
>
>  In other words, the config file is just a place to store values, any
>  values you want, and the environment.py module gives you the chance to
>  customize the initialization of your app any way you want.  You store
>  the initialization code wherever you want, Pylons doesn't force any
>  conventions on you other than by creating a default module layout when
>  you start your project.
>
>  Kumar
>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 22:39:31 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:39:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

How would you handle the case when the two databases have a table  
with the same name?
Is it a problem?

Massimo


On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Kumar McMillan
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Ian Bicking   
>> wrote:
>>>> I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple  
>>>> databases. Would
>>> you mind posting an example?
>>>>
>>
>>  I can't find this documented anywhere but if you configure a Pylons
>>  app with this structure (using SQLAlchemy 0.4),
> http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonsdocs/Using+SQLAlchemy+with 
> +Pylons
>
> duh, an example of multiple databases is actually at the bottom of
> that same page! ;)
>
> They suggest more or less the same thing but it's a little more
> concise and the session construction is more sane ...
>
> [app:main]
> sqlalchemy.default.url = "mysql://..."
> sqlalchemy.default.pool_recycle = 3600
> sqlalchemy.log.url = "sqlite://..."
>
> default_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.default.')
> log_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.log.')
> init_model(default_engine, log_engine)
>
> ...and so on
>
>
>>
>>  ... then, if you wanted to, say, connect to a read-only db and a
>>  write-only db, you could update your config like this:
>>
>>  [app:main]
>>  # ...
>>  read_db.url = postgres://read_user:pw at readhost/read_db
>>  #read_db.debug = True
>>  write_db.url = postgres://write_user:pw at writehost/write_db
>>
>>  ... and you could change environment.py to call init_model() like:
>>
>>  def load_environment(global_conf, app_conf):
>>     # ...
>>     read_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'read_db.')
>>     write_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'write_db.')
>>     init_model(read_engine, write_engine)
>>
>>  ... and update the init_model() def in model/__init__.py to :
>>
>>  from sqlalchemy import orm
>>  from myapp.model import meta
>>
>>  def init_model(read_engine, write_engine):
>>     ReadSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker 
>> (autoflush=False,
>>  transactional=False, bind=read_engine))
>>     meta.read_metadata.bind = read_engine
>>     meta.read_session = ReadSession()
>>     # setup read mappers here..
>>
>>     WriteSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker 
>> (autoflush=True,
>>  transactional=True, bind=write_engine))
>>     meta.write_metadata.bind = write_engine
>>     meta.write_session = WriteSession()
>>     # setup write mappers here..
>>
>>
>>  In other words, the config file is just a place to store values, any
>>  values you want, and the environment.py module gives you the  
>> chance to
>>  customize the initialization of your app any way you want.  You  
>> store
>>  the initialization code wherever you want, Pylons doesn't force any
>>  conventions on you other than by creating a default module layout  
>> when
>>  you start your project.
>>
>>  Kumar
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 22:41:33 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:41:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0804281341i47f6637cj5fcc56047abe07bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code
>
>  #in applications/security/controller/default.py
>  class Jammer():
>   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
>  def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())
>
>  in #routes.py
>  routes_in=(('.*(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)','/security/default/jam'),)
>
>  and it does not matter which web server you use.
>
>  Massimo
>

What about web2py is better? I was commenting on a way to serve really
large files using the performance benefits of something like Apache or
Nginx (for static files) while still being able to use authentication
or dynamic generation of the file in Python. Your example just show
how to send an infinite stream of data to the client. This isn't hard
to do in Django either.

# in your views.py or somewhere else


class Jammer(object):
  def __iter__(self):
    while True:
      yield 'x'

def jam(request):
  return HttpResponse(Jammer())

#in your urlconf you can put something like
('(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)/$', jam),


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 22:56:23 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:56:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <276266d0804281341i47f6637cj5fcc56047abe07bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281341i47f6637cj5fcc56047abe07bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30BBC2BA-EB61-43C8-83C3-1FC43D04533F@cs.depaul.edu>

There was some confusion. ;-)
Than they are very similar in this respect. Thanks for the  
clarification.

Massimo

On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
>  wrote:
>> Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code
>>
>>  #in applications/security/controller/default.py
>>  class Jammer():
>>   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
>>  def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())
>>
>>  in #routes.py
>>  routes_in=(('.*(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)','/security/default/jam'),)
>>
>>  and it does not matter which web server you use.
>>
>>  Massimo
>>
>
> What about web2py is better? I was commenting on a way to serve really
> large files using the performance benefits of something like Apache or
> Nginx (for static files) while still being able to use authentication
> or dynamic generation of the file in Python. Your example just show
> how to send an infinite stream of data to the client. This isn't hard
> to do in Django either.
>
> # in your views.py or somewhere else
>
>
> class Jammer(object):
>   def __iter__(self):
>     while True:
>       yield 'x'
>
> def jam(request):
>   return HttpResponse(Jammer())
>
> #in your urlconf you can put something like
> ('(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)/$', jam),
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 22:56:46 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:56:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<4816066E.70509@colorstudy.com>
	<3488990C-FB97-4E45-90B9-7383011FEE3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<481614DE.4000801@colorstudy.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
 wrote:
> How would you handle the case when the two databases have a table with the
> same name?
>  Is it a problem?

shouldn't be a problem.  You are creating two separate engine objects.
 If you mapped each of your classes to a single table in a specific
engine (a typical use case) and the same table existed in both engines
then there would be no conflict.  However, it is possible to map a
single class to multiple tables across engines, in which case you'd
have to be careful when the same table exists in both engines.

SQLAlchemy generally keeps everything separate like this: you have a
metadata object, an engine object, a session object, table objects,
and classes that maps to whatever you want -- these are the interfaces
to the data.  This both makes it great (very flexible) and also
annoying (hard to learn, requires a lot of code for simple tasks,
things often go wrong because you probably just forgot to set
something up, etc).

Luckily, for those who wish to "just get sh*t done", there is Elixir:
http://elixir.ematia.de/trac/wiki
:)

>
>  Massimo
>
>
>
>
>  On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Kumar McMillan
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Ian Bicking 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I have never a Pylons example for connecting to multiple databases.
> Would
> > > > >
> > > > you mind posting an example?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >  I can't find this documented anywhere but if you configure a Pylons
> > >  app with this structure (using SQLAlchemy 0.4),
> > >
> > http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonsdocs/Using+SQLAlchemy+with+Pylons
> >
> > duh, an example of multiple databases is actually at the bottom of
> > that same page! ;)
> >
> > They suggest more or less the same thing but it's a little more
> > concise and the session construction is more sane ...
> >
> > [app:main]
> > sqlalchemy.default.url = "mysql://..."
> > sqlalchemy.default.pool_recycle = 3600
> > sqlalchemy.log.url = "sqlite://..."
> >
> > default_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.default.')
> > log_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'sqlalchemy.log.')
> > init_model(default_engine, log_engine)
> >
> > ...and so on
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >  ... then, if you wanted to, say, connect to a read-only db and a
> > >  write-only db, you could update your config like this:
> > >
> > >  [app:main]
> > >  # ...
> > >  read_db.url = postgres://read_user:pw at readhost/read_db
> > >  #read_db.debug = True
> > >  write_db.url = postgres://write_user:pw at writehost/write_db
> > >
> > >  ... and you could change environment.py to call init_model() like:
> > >
> > >  def load_environment(global_conf, app_conf):
> > >    # ...
> > >    read_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'read_db.')
> > >    write_engine = engine_from_config(config, 'write_db.')
> > >    init_model(read_engine, write_engine)
> > >
> > >  ... and update the init_model() def in model/__init__.py to :
> > >
> > >  from sqlalchemy import orm
> > >  from myapp.model import meta
> > >
> > >  def init_model(read_engine, write_engine):
> > >    ReadSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=False,
> > >  transactional=False, bind=read_engine))
> > >    meta.read_metadata.bind = read_engine
> > >    meta.read_session = ReadSession()
> > >    # setup read mappers here..
> > >
> > >    WriteSession = orm.scoped_session(orm.sessionmaker(autoflush=True,
> > >  transactional=True, bind=write_engine))
> > >    meta.write_metadata.bind = write_engine
> > >    meta.write_session = WriteSession()
> > >    # setup write mappers here..
> > >
> > >
> > >  In other words, the config file is just a place to store values, any
> > >  values you want, and the environment.py module gives you the chance to
> > >  customize the initialization of your app any way you want.  You store
> > >  the initialization code wherever you want, Pylons doesn't force any
> > >  conventions on you other than by creating a default module layout when
> > >  you start your project.
> > >
> > >  Kumar
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Apr 28 23:11:39 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:11:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <48163D8B.8050706@colorstudy.com>

Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code
> 
> #in applications/security/controller/default.py
> class Jammer():
>   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
> def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())
> 
> in #routes.py
> routes_in=(('.*(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)','/security/default/jam'),)
> 
> and it does not matter which web server you use.

Incidentally, here's how you do these kind of responses in WebOb.  The 
infinite response is not all that interesting, but you can do it like:

   resp = Response()
   chunk_size = 4096 # you could set this down to 1 to stream
                     # one character at a time
   resp.app_iter = itertools.repeat('x'*chunk_size)
   return resp

Kind of boring, though.  If you want to serve a resource and support 
If-Modified-Since, etc., you can do something like this, imagining you 
are serving an image from a database:

   resp = Response()
   resp.body = row.image_content # bytes
   resp.last_modified = row.edited # datetime object
   resp.content_type = row.content_type # string
   resp.conditional_response = True
   return resp

Then it will support If-Modified-Since and Range requests.  If you add 
an ETag, it will support If-None-Match as well.  Instead of setting 
resp.body, you could also set resp.app_iter to some iterator over the 
content.  If your app_iter object has a method app_iter_range it can 
also more efficiently do range requests (though it only involves WebOb 
reading though some unnecessary bytes if you don't have that method).

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon Apr 28 23:37:09 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:37:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] help from Django and Pylons developers
In-Reply-To: <48163D8B.8050706@colorstudy.com>
References: <795FC752-5F5C-4C47-A22E-8507D9C52931@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48161323.9030008@personnelware.com>
	<7CF4836B-D12C-475F-A6BA-A63B9C52A7E7@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0804281248v21d9fbc5r923d34808f08b28c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C570A76-4F1D-47F9-B9B3-FA89E12AE195@cs.depaul.edu>
	<48163D8B.8050706@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: 

It is not interesting but very useful. they do not port scan me anymore!
In web2py if you just do

def index(): return response.stream 
('somefile.flv',chunk_file=40000,request=request)

If will check request, determine if to do a IF_MODIFIED_SINCE and  
returns 304
determines if is a range request and returns a 206 PARTIAL CONTENT
if the file is larger than 40000 will stream (the required range) in  
chunks of that size.
If will also set the proper response headers including CONTENT_TYPE.
If the files does not exist returns the 400.

Massimo



On Apr 28, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> Sorry the web2py way is better. Here is the complete code
>>
>> #in applications/security/controller/default.py
>> class Jammer():
>>   def read(self,n):  return 'x'*n
>> def jam():  return response.stream(Jammer())
>>
>> in #routes.py
>> routes_in=(('.*(php|PHP|asp|ASP|jsp|JSP)','/security/default/jam'),)
>>
>> and it does not matter which web server you use.
>
> Incidentally, here's how you do these kind of responses in WebOb.  The
> infinite response is not all that interesting, but you can do it like:
>
>    resp = Response()
>    chunk_size = 4096 # you could set this down to 1 to stream
>                      # one character at a time
>    resp.app_iter = itertools.repeat('x'*chunk_size)
>    return resp
>
> Kind of boring, though.  If you want to serve a resource and support
> If-Modified-Since, etc., you can do something like this, imagining you
> are serving an image from a database:
>
>    resp = Response()
>    resp.body = row.image_content # bytes
>    resp.last_modified = row.edited # datetime object
>    resp.content_type = row.content_type # string
>    resp.conditional_response = True
>    return resp
>
> Then it will support If-Modified-Since and Range requests.  If you add
> an ETag, it will support If-None-Match as well.  Instead of setting
> resp.body, you could also set resp.app_iter to some iterator over the
> content.  If your app_iter object has a method app_iter_range it can
> also more efficiently do range requests (though it only involves WebOb
> reading though some unnecessary bytes if you don't have that method).
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 01:49:17 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:49:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
Message-ID: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I have been working on Pylons for a while now and have run into 1 serious
issue. I cannot figure out Routes. Can someone help me figure out routes for
the following?

users pk - username
- view(no key needed)
- new/edit/delete(key needed)
- find jobs for this user

jobs - pk is batch + job + date entered
- view(no key needed)
- new/edit/delete(key needed)
- assorted other stuff

quickview
 - summary view(no key needed)

I dont really have a routes file to post since it is entirely broken, the
keys cannot be changed and eventually there will be many entries needed.
When I started and only had users the following worked

    map.connect(':controller/:action/:id')
    map.connect(':controller/:action/:name',
controller='gecsuser',action='list')
    map.connect(':name', controller='gecsuser', action='list', name='Dan')

when I added

  map.connect(':controller/:action/:jobnum/:batch/:submitted',
controller='gecsjob',action='index')
    map.connect(':jobnum', controller='gecsjob', action='index',
jobnum='job')
    map.connect(':batch', controller='gecsjob', action='index', batch='job')
    map.connect(':submitted', controller='gecsjob', action='index',
submitted='9999-12-31 23:59:59')

everything broke. How do I make this work?

Thanks
Dan
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr 30 05:08:54 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:08:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>

Daniel Griffin wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I have been working on Pylons for a while now and have run into 1 
> serious issue. I cannot figure out Routes. Can someone help me figure 
> out routes for the following?
> 
> users pk - username
> - view(no key needed)
> - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> - find jobs for this user
> 
> jobs - pk is batch + job + date entered
> - view(no key needed)
> - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> - assorted other stuff
> 
> quickview 
>  - summary view(no key needed)
> 
> I dont really have a routes file to post since it is entirely broken, 
> the keys cannot be changed and eventually there will be many entries 
> needed. When I started and only had users the following worked
> 
>     map.connect(':controller/:action/:id')
>     map.connect(':controller/:action/:name', 
> controller='gecsuser',action='list')
>     map.connect(':name', controller='gecsuser', action='list', name='Dan')
> 
> when I added
> 
>   map.connect(':controller/:action/:jobnum/:batch/:submitted', 
> controller='gecsjob',action='index')
>     map.connect(':jobnum', controller='gecsjob', action='index', 
> jobnum='job')
>     map.connect(':batch', controller='gecsjob', action='index', batch='job')
>     map.connect(':submitted', controller='gecsjob', action='index', 
> submitted='9999-12-31 23:59:59')
> 
> everything broke. How do I make this work?

Those routes you setup are ambiguous, I think.  ":batch" is just a 
variable.  By doing batch="job" in that connection you'll just set the 
default for that variable -- but any (single-segment) URL will match 
that pattern and overwrite the default.  Since you have three 
connections like that, they all overlap.

Maybe you want to do:

   map.connect('/job', controller='gecsjob', actino='index', batch='job')

or something like that...?  I'm not sure what URL layout you want.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 05:32:56 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:32:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>

Well, ideally you could just go /gecsjob/edit/BAT/JOB/11:11:09 4/29/2008
and it would bring you to the edit page for that job. The standard
/:controller/:action/:id wont do that because it is expecting a single key
correct? That is a major source of confusion for me since I dont know how
these routes will deal with all sorts of crazy keys.


Dan

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Ian Bicking  wrote:

> Daniel Griffin wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have been working on Pylons for a while now and have run into 1
> > serious issue. I cannot figure out Routes. Can someone help me figure out
> > routes for the following?
> >
> > users pk - username
> > - view(no key needed)
> > - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> > - find jobs for this user
> >
> > jobs - pk is batch + job + date entered
> > - view(no key needed)
> > - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> > - assorted other stuff
> >
> > quickview  - summary view(no key needed)
> >
> > I dont really have a routes file to post since it is entirely broken,
> > the keys cannot be changed and eventually there will be many entries needed.
> > When I started and only had users the following worked
> >
> >    map.connect(':controller/:action/:id')
> >    map.connect(':controller/:action/:name',
> > controller='gecsuser',action='list')
> >    map.connect(':name', controller='gecsuser', action='list',
> > name='Dan')
> >
> > when I added
> >
> >  map.connect(':controller/:action/:jobnum/:batch/:submitted',
> > controller='gecsjob',action='index')
> >    map.connect(':jobnum', controller='gecsjob', action='index',
> > jobnum='job')
> >    map.connect(':batch', controller='gecsjob', action='index',
> > batch='job')
> >    map.connect(':submitted', controller='gecsjob', action='index',
> > submitted='9999-12-31 23:59:59')
> >
> > everything broke. How do I make this work?
> >
>
> Those routes you setup are ambiguous, I think.  ":batch" is just a
> variable.  By doing batch="job" in that connection you'll just set the
> default for that variable -- but any (single-segment) URL will match that
> pattern and overwrite the default.  Since you have three connections like
> that, they all overlap.
>
> Maybe you want to do:
>
>  map.connect('/job', controller='gecsjob', actino='index', batch='job')
>
> or something like that...?  I'm not sure what URL layout you want.
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed Apr 30 05:40:49 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Mind that technically (according to specs) ":" should be encoded  
because reserved and " " is considered unsafe.

http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/topics/urlencoding.htm

You should use something like

> Well, ideally you could just go /gecsjob/edit/BAT/JOB/ 
> 11/11/09/4/29/2008

instead.

Massimo

On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Daniel Griffin wrote:

> Well, ideally you could just go /gecsjob/edit/BAT/JOB/11:11:09  
> 4/29/2008
>
> and it would bring you to the edit page for that job. The  
> standard /:controller/:action/:id wont do that because it is  
> expecting a single key correct? That is a major source of confusion  
> for me since I dont know how these routes will deal with all sorts  
> of crazy keys.
>
>
> Dan
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Ian Bicking   
> wrote:
> Daniel Griffin wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been working on Pylons for a while now and have run into 1  
> serious issue. I cannot figure out Routes. Can someone help me  
> figure out routes for the following?
>
> users pk - username
> - view(no key needed)
> - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> - find jobs for this user
>
> jobs - pk is batch + job + date entered
> - view(no key needed)
> - new/edit/delete(key needed)
> - assorted other stuff
>
> quickview  - summary view(no key needed)
>
> I dont really have a routes file to post since it is entirely  
> broken, the keys cannot be changed and eventually there will be  
> many entries needed. When I started and only had users the  
> following worked
>
>    map.connect(':controller/:action/:id')
>    map.connect(':controller/:action/:name',  
> controller='gecsuser',action='list')
>    map.connect(':name', controller='gecsuser', action='list',  
> name='Dan')
>
> when I added
>
>  map.connect(':controller/:action/:jobnum/:batch/:submitted',  
> controller='gecsjob',action='index')
>    map.connect(':jobnum', controller='gecsjob', action='index',  
> jobnum='job')
>    map.connect(':batch', controller='gecsjob', action='index',  
> batch='job')
>    map.connect(':submitted', controller='gecsjob', action='index',  
> submitted='9999-12-31 23:59:59')
>
> everything broke. How do I make this work?
>
> Those routes you setup are ambiguous, I think.  ":batch" is just a  
> variable.  By doing batch="job" in that connection you'll just set  
> the default for that variable -- but any (single-segment) URL will  
> match that pattern and overwrite the default.  Since you have three  
> connections like that, they all overlap.
>
> Maybe you want to do:
>
>  map.connect('/job', controller='gecsjob', actino='index',  
> batch='job')
>
> or something like that...?  I'm not sure what URL layout you want.
>
> -- 
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> 

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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr 30 05:50:26 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:50:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4817EC82.6030409@colorstudy.com>

Daniel Griffin wrote:
> Well, ideally you could just go /gecsjob/edit/BAT/JOB/11:11:09 4/29/2008 

Then maybe you want:

   map.connect('/gecsjob/edit/BAT/JOB/:time/:month/:day/:year')

?  I'm not sure which of these are variables.

Also, if you have some fixed set of things, you can do:

map.connect('/:controller/:action/:group/:type/:time/:month/:day/:year',
   requirements=dict(action='(edit|create|delete)', group='BAT|SINGLE', 
type='JOB|ASSIGNMENT', time=r'\d\d:\d\d:\d\d', month=r'\d\d', 
day=r'\d\d', year=r'\d\d\d\d'))

Then you can restrict this more carefully.

> and it would bring you to the edit page for that job. The standard 
> /:controller/:action/:id wont do that because it is expecting a single 
> key correct? That is a major source of confusion for me since I dont 
> know how these routes will deal with all sorts of crazy keys.

:id in that case would be restricted to a single segment, yes.  I think 
you could use *id, which would allow any number of segments to be matched.


-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 06:30:21 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:30:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <4817EC82.6030409@colorstudy.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817EC82.6030409@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680804292130j358e7ed2m9cae1537add16cc6@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> > :id in that case would be restricted to a single segment, yes.  I think
> you could use *id, which would allow any number of segments to be matched.


So, if I just change :id to *ids then I can get composite key support? This
is the #1 thing I am looking for. How do they get dispatched to the
controller then?

Like def edit(self, key1, key2, key3): ?

Sorry I keep asking these stupid questions, I really appreciate the help.

Dan



>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr 30 06:41:08 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:41:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <3db160680804292130j358e7ed2m9cae1537add16cc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>	<3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>	<4817EC82.6030409@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292130j358e7ed2m9cae1537add16cc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4817F864.4090007@colorstudy.com>

Daniel Griffin wrote:
> 
>     :id in that case would be restricted to a single segment, yes.  I
>     think you could use *id, which would allow any number of segments to
>     be matched.
> 
> 
> So, if I just change :id to *ids then I can get composite key support? 
> This is the #1 thing I am looking for. How do they get dispatched to the 
> controller then? 
> 
> Like def edit(self, key1, key2, key3): ? 

If you have *ids, then it will match anything, and you'll get a single 
variable ids that will be like 'BAT/JOB/11:11:11/05-03-2007'

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Wed Apr 30 23:53:36 2008
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (rcriii at ramsdells.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:53:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago] VBA sucks (or is it Excel?)
Message-ID: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>

>From the VBA immediate window:

print InRange(row, Col)
 39543.4993171296
print searchval
 39543.5
print InRange(row, Col) >= SearchVal
True
print 39543.4993171296 >= 39543.5
False

I know this isn't python, but I had to share.

Robert