From sakamura at gmail.com  Thu May  1 00:46:23 2008
From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:46:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] VBA sucks (or is it Excel?)
In-Reply-To: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
References: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <4818F6BF.7040905@gmail.com>

"VBA sucks (or is it Excel?)"

No, the only people who suck are:

-- The programmer that created the InRange function
-- The programmer that was responsible for the VBA operators
-- The QA team that didn't throughly test math precision on all of the 
functions.

I'm sure you've heard about the Famous Excel 2007 bug.

rcriii at ramsdells.net wrote:
> >From the VBA immediate window:
>
> print InRange(row, Col)
>  39543.4993171296
> print searchval
>  39543.5
> print InRange(row, Col) >= SearchVal
> True
> print 39543.4993171296 >= 39543.5
> False
>
> I know this isn't python, but I had to share.
>
> Robert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   


From cstejerean at gmail.com  Thu May  1 00:47:28 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:47:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] VBA sucks (or is it Excel?)
In-Reply-To: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
References: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0804301547t6fd3d964w370704996ca737b4@mail.gmail.com>

What about

print InRange(row, Col) >= 39543.5
??
print 39543.4993171296 >= SearchVal
??

and while you're at it

print InRange(row, Col) >= 1
??

On 4/30/08, rcriii at ramsdells.net <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:
> >From the VBA immediate window:
>
>  print InRange(row, Col)
>   39543.4993171296
>  print searchval
>   39543.5
>  print InRange(row, Col) >= SearchVal
>  True
>  print 39543.4993171296 >= 39543.5
>  False
>
>  I know this isn't python, but I had to share.
>
>  Robert
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From ken at stox.org  Thu May  1 00:49:55 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:49:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] VBA sucks (or is it Excel?)
In-Reply-To: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
References: <31352.12.158.28.4.1209592416.squirrel@mail.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <1209595795.26398.7.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:53 -0400, rcriii at ramsdells.net wrote:
> >From the VBA immediate window:
> 
> print InRange(row, Col)
>  39543.4993171296
> print searchval
>  39543.5
> print InRange(row, Col) >= SearchVal
> True
> print 39543.4993171296 >= 39543.5
> False
> 
> I know this isn't python, but I had to share.

Microsoft has had consistent problems with rounding since their first
product for the IBM-PC. For those who missed it, or were silly enough
not to be born yet, in PC-DOS 1.0, the PC-Basic interpreter would report
that 1 + 1 = 1.99999. PC-DOS 1.1 was rushed out the door just a few
weeks later with a new version of the Basic interpreter. VBA is
descendant of that codebase. Some things never change. 


From mikef at arbalest.com  Thu May  1 00:53:02 2008
From: mikef at arbalest.com (Mike Fried)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:53:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] OT: How to choose an Open Source License
Message-ID: <a08edf750804301553q6c35838k96014bb9547999ca@mail.gmail.com>

This is a bit off topic - My wife, a programmer, is writing
a paper for school on how/why people choose one open
source license over another when starting a new project.

Conducting a "survey" is required for the course and this
one took me 2 minutes to complete.  The idea for this
grew out of the question of why are there so many Open
Source Licenses now and what's the difference between
them anyway?  But the survey mainly asks which licenses
have you chosen and which of the listed factors was most
important to you in making that choice.

If you are willing to take the survey click the link below.

Beyond the link is the "boiler plate" stuff that is required
for the class.  There is no real "we" and it's not a "research
study" in the typical sense of the word. There is no
marketing involved here what so ever.

If this is too far off topic and the moderator wishes to bump
this post that's fine.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=RHoaoVbsFOG1CCrp9qPVrA_3d_3d

==================

INFORMATION SHEET FOR PARTICIPATION IN RESEARCH STUDY

 [License Choice Determinants for Open Source Software Projects]

We are asking you to be in a research study because we are trying to
learn more about the factors that influence the licensing decisions
made by developers and founders of Open Source Software Projects.
This study will take about 15 minutes of your time.  If you agree to be in
this study, you will be asked to fill out a survey.  You can choose
not to participate.  There will be no negative consequences if you
decide not to participate or change your mind later.

If you have questions about this study, please contact  Janet Kral at
773-878-4679 or at janniefried at yahoo.com.  If you have questions
about your rights as a research subject, you may contact
Shay-Ann Heiser Singh, DePaul University's Director of Research
Protections at 312-362-7593 or by email at sheiser at depaul.edu.

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu May  1 15:28:03 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:28:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Plone Book Review
Message-ID: <3096c19d0805010628m626e249ft62d6641db793a294@mail.gmail.com>

Matt Dorn posted a review of a new Plone book that the publisher sent
to us, http://chipy.org/Professional_Plone_Development.

I haven't been paying much attention to Plone or Zope, but lately have
been considering taking a deeper look at both.  Is anyone using Plone
or Zope where they work?  The community seems strong as ever, and
Plone especially comes up in discussions with non-Python-centric folks
as a contender for CMS duties, in direct competition with M$
Sharepoint.  Anyone have any experiences to share?  Has ChiPy been
negligent on the Plone / Zope front?

Chris

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu May  1 21:04:14 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
Message-ID: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>

This is experimental but you can have fun with it and you can use it  
to generate page layouts for other frameworks too with very little  
tweaking of the output HTML.

https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/layouts

Massimo

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Thu May  1 22:56:15 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 15:56:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu> (Massimo Di
	Pierro's message of "Thu, 1 May 2008 14:04:14 -0500")
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com>

What's with the hidden link at the bottom to web2py that says that I
cannot remove it?

I don't expect to be using this app soon, but if I did want to I
wouldn't mind keeping a reference to web2py in the source comments,
but I think that an obligatory link is bothersome.

Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> writes:

> This is experimental but you can have fun with it and you can use it
> to generate page layouts for other frameworks too with very little
> tweaking of the output HTML.
>
> https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/layouts
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Thu May  1 23:03:01 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:03:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com> (Christopher Allan Webber's
	message of "Thu, 01 May 2008 15:56:15 -0500")
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <6y7ied68l6.fsf@imagescape.com>

Sorry, it was not my intention to sound like I was flaming here,
though after sending the email I realized I probably sounded like I
was.  What I'm asking here is whether or not I would have to include
the link when using this to generate a template.

Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> writes:

> What's with the hidden link at the bottom to web2py that says that I
> cannot remove it?
>
> I don't expect to be using this app soon, but if I did want to I
> wouldn't mind keeping a reference to web2py in the source comments,
> but I think that an obligatory link is bothersome.
>
> Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> writes:
>
>> This is experimental but you can have fun with it and you can use it
>> to generate page layouts for other frameworks too with very little
>> tweaking of the output HTML.
>>
>> https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/layouts
>>
>> Massimo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu May  1 23:06:08 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:06:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <481A30C0.6000505@colorstudy.com>

Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
> What's with the hidden link at the bottom to web2py that says that I
> cannot remove it?
> 
> I don't expect to be using this app soon, but if I did want to I
> wouldn't mind keeping a reference to web2py in the source comments,
> but I think that an obligatory link is bothersome.

It's also styled so that search engines may detect it as a spam link, 
and punish the linked site.  So the link might do web2py.com harm.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu May  1 23:10:33 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:10:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <6y7ied68l6.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com> <6y7ied68l6.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <8AC8E647-D44C-40DB-B058-821D32E06011@cs.depaul.edu>

No problem, you did not sound inflamatory. All free layouts released  
under an artistic license includes a link to the author's web page  
that cannot removed without breaking the license. The link is hidden  
to be minimally invasive and you can reduce it to a dot if you want.  
If you prefer to add an explicit acknowledgement instead of a hidden  
link that is fine too. Except for the colors the page layout is the  
same as the official web2py template with is copyrighted so you cannot  
use it without an acknowledgement. You can take the colors if you want  
with no problem.

Massimo


On May 1, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:

> Sorry, it was not my intention to sound like I was flaming here,
> though after sending the email I realized I probably sounded like I
> was.  What I'm asking here is whether or not I would have to include
> the link when using this to generate a template.
>
> Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> writes:
>
>> What's with the hidden link at the bottom to web2py that says that I
>> cannot remove it?
>>
>> I don't expect to be using this app soon, but if I did want to I
>> wouldn't mind keeping a reference to web2py in the source comments,
>> but I think that an obligatory link is bothersome.
>>
>> Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> writes:
>>
>>> This is experimental but you can have fun with it and you can use it
>>> to generate page layouts for other frameworks too with very little
>>> tweaking of the output HTML.
>>>
>>> https://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/layouts
>>>
>>> Massimo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Thu May  1 23:37:57 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:37:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <481A30C0.6000505@colorstudy.com>
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com> <481A30C0.6000505@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <AD1AD163-CC7B-4B75-9769-BE0C1181FA3A@cs.depaul.edu>

How much harm can it do considering that since two weeks ago if you  
google "python web framework", web2py
does not appear at all anymore? The week before it was listed on the  
second page, then suddenly disappeared.

I knew I should have written a license that says "for web2py only". I  
give you a hand and you want an arm.
Just kidding! :-)

Massimo

On May 1, 2008, at 4:06 PM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
>> What's with the hidden link at the bottom to web2py that says that I
>> cannot remove it?
>>
>> I don't expect to be using this app soon, but if I did want to I
>> wouldn't mind keeping a reference to web2py in the source comments,
>> but I think that an obligatory link is bothersome.
>
> It's also styled so that search engines may detect it as a spam link,
> and punish the linked site.  So the link might do web2py.com harm.
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From dbt at meat.net  Fri May  2 02:28:27 2008
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <AD1AD163-CC7B-4B75-9769-BE0C1181FA3A@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com> <481A30C0.6000505@colorstudy.com>
	<AD1AD163-CC7B-4B75-9769-BE0C1181FA3A@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <20080502002827.GB31101@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 04:37:57PM -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> How much harm can it do considering that since two weeks ago if you  
> google "python web framework", web2py
> does not appear at all anymore? The week before it was listed on the  
> second page, then suddenly disappeared.

So what Ian was warning you of has already happened.

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Fri May  2 04:09:10 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:09:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] layout html/css generator
In-Reply-To: <20080502002827.GB31101@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
References: <A3AF2F29-E19B-4F79-83B1-434C6B6C3D00@cs.depaul.edu>
	<6ybq3p68wg.fsf@imagescape.com> <481A30C0.6000505@colorstudy.com>
	<AD1AD163-CC7B-4B75-9769-BE0C1181FA3A@cs.depaul.edu>
	<20080502002827.GB31101@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <E6FEC5AF-01DB-40C4-B583-9F80BA13C258@cs.depaul.edu>

I guess it was a preemptive strike.

Massimo

On May 1, 2008, at 7:28 PM, David Terrell wrote:

> On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 04:37:57PM -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>> How much harm can it do considering that since two weeks ago if you
>> google "python web framework", web2py
>> does not appear at all anymore? The week before it was listed on the
>> second page, then suddenly disappeared.
>
> So what Ian was warning you of has already happened.
>
> --
> David Terrell
> dbt at meat.net
> ((meatspace)) http://meat.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From bjgreenberg at gmail.com  Fri May  2 16:07:16 2008
From: bjgreenberg at gmail.com (Brian J. Greenberg)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:07:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Plone Book Review
Message-ID: <10dc8a240805020707i22bed60etd3f4a194cebdb838@mail.gmail.com>

Whoohoo!  Finally someone is talking about Plone.  I've been using Plone in
a very limited fashion for a few years.  I've only recently been getting
deeper into Plone.  The only reason I haven't done more in Plone is that I'm
not a developer and don't have a lot of opportunity do work with it
professionally, which is one reason why I like working with it so much.  You
don't have to write any code if you can't/don't want to.  It's ready to go
right out of the box as a content management system/framework.  There are
lots of application plug-ins (called products) and it's really easy to use
and the on-line documentation is fairly through.  It installs in a snap and
runs on Linux, Window and Mac, no problem.  Very easy to migrate a Plone
site from one site/machine to another and has built in data protection tools
and easy to back up.

-- 
Brian J. Greenberg
http://briangreenberg.net

... you wrote ...

Matt Dorn posted a review of a new Plone book that the publisher sent
to us, http://chipy.org/Professional_Plone_Development.

I haven't been paying much attention to Plone or Zope, but lately have
been considering taking a deeper look at both.  Is anyone using Plone
or Zope where they work?  The community seems strong as ever, and
Plone especially comes up in discussions with non-Python-centric folks
as a contender for CMS duties, in direct competition with M$
Sharepoint.  Anyone have any experiences to share?  Has ChiPy been
negligent on the Plone / Zope front?

Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080502/18d69e54/attachment.htm>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri May  2 16:22:32 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:22:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Plone Book Review
In-Reply-To: <10dc8a240805020707i22bed60etd3f4a194cebdb838@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10dc8a240805020707i22bed60etd3f4a194cebdb838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0805020722j437e6edi14fd794715fd35e0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brian,

What do you use Plone for?

Chris

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Brian J. Greenberg
<bjgreenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Whoohoo!  Finally someone is talking about Plone.  I've been using Plone in
> a very limited fashion for a few years.  I've only recently been getting
> deeper into Plone.  The only reason I haven't done more in Plone is that I'm
> not a developer and don't have a lot of opportunity do work with it
> professionally, which is one reason why I like working with it so much.  You
> don't have to write any code if you can't/don't want to.  It's ready to go
> right out of the box as a content management system/framework.  There are
> lots of application plug-ins (called products) and it's really easy to use
> and the on-line documentation is fairly through.  It installs in a snap and
> runs on Linux, Window and Mac, no problem.  Very easy to migrate a Plone
> site from one site/machine to another and has built in data protection tools
> and easy to back up.
>
> --
> Brian J. Greenberg
> http://briangreenberg.net
>
>  ... you wrote ...
>
>
>
>  Matt Dorn posted a review of a new Plone book that the publisher sent
>  to us, http://chipy.org/Professional_Plone_Development.
>
>  I haven't been paying much attention to Plone or Zope, but lately have
>  been considering taking a deeper look at both.  Is anyone using Plone
>  or Zope where they work?  The community seems strong as ever, and
>  Plone especially comes up in discussions with non-Python-centric folks
>  as a contender for CMS duties, in direct competition with M$
>  Sharepoint.  Anyone have any experiences to share?  Has ChiPy been
>  negligent on the Plone / Zope front?
>
>  Chris
> _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Fri May  2 19:38:16 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:38:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Pylons/Groovie Routes Help
In-Reply-To: <4817F864.4090007@colorstudy.com>
References: <3db160680804291649x56cc8404u86e08b1030deb4f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817E2C6.7070006@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292032r1d469be7k274cd2f9cba2ad6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817EC82.6030409@colorstudy.com>
	<3db160680804292130j358e7ed2m9cae1537add16cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4817F864.4090007@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680805021038l5b0ee217i7e154fb692985d46@mail.gmail.com>

I went ahead and changed my routes to a simple /:controller/:action/*id and
my code accordingly and its awesome. Thanks so much for your help.

Dan

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

> Daniel Griffin wrote:
>
> >
> >    :id in that case would be restricted to a single segment, yes.  I
> >    think you could use *id, which would allow any number of segments to
> >    be matched.
> >
> >
> > So, if I just change :id to *ids then I can get composite key support?
> > This is the #1 thing I am looking for. How do they get dispatched to the
> > controller then?
> > Like def edit(self, key1, key2, key3): ?
> >
>
> If you have *ids, then it will match anything, and you'll get a single
> variable ids that will be like 'BAT/JOB/11:11:11/05-03-2007'
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080502/05b366ba/attachment.htm>

From bjgreenberg at gmail.com  Fri May  2 21:08:56 2008
From: bjgreenberg at gmail.com (Brian J. Greenberg)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Plone Book Review
Message-ID: <10dc8a240805021208h76326e33pb69b568c7b0854d8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

There are a couple applications I use Plone for, my own personal web space
(which is constantly under development for my own practice) which includes
articles and presentations, community portals, and I'm working on developing
a site for a friend of mine who is a Jazz artist.  There are special
pre-configured Plone instances especially for artists (see
http://plone4artists.org/).  Additionally, I consider Plone a platform that
I can use to do what everyone else is already doing (wiki, blog,
syndication, media library, mailing lists, collaboration, etc.) but instead
of in disparate pieces, I can do it on one platform without having to write
any code.  However, if I want to customize it, no problem.  It's python.  I
can also use any database I like even though it comes with the Zope object
database, or any web server that I like, even though it comes with its own
web server.

BTW... an excellent place to start is at http://plone.org/about which has
screen casts (movie demonstrations) and samples of sites that use Plone.
-- 
Brian J. Greenberg
http://briangreenberg.net  <-- BTW... it's a Plone site.

... you wrote ...

Hi Brian,

What do you use Plone for?

Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080502/061b6e30/attachment.htm>

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri May  2 20:42:52 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 13:42:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] san francisco
Message-ID: <a68ced640805021142y38cae351k8024eca6407c7b6b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm missing the meeting this week because I will be in San Francisco.
Maybe I can make the bay piggies meeting.

If any of our sf lurkers want to hang out, let me know. I'm in town
today and for all of next week up to Sunday. Going to be mighty busy
during the week. freer on weekends.

Monday is CommunityOne, a free open source conference. google that and
sign up if you're interested. I think some python/jython talk will be
going on.

-- 
sheila

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon May  5 17:15:56 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 10:15:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May meeting, talks & venue
Message-ID: <6yzlr4wzmb.fsf@imagescape.com>

Hey hey,

It's that time of the month again, next ChiPy is only a few days away!
Do we have interested speakers?  Possible venue?

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 18:12:22 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] May meeting, talks & venue
In-Reply-To: <6yzlr4wzmb.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <44335.34797.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I made a screen scraping console called Cycloctopus. If anyone's
interested, I'd be willing to do a short demo of it. I created it in
XULRunner, so it's not coded in Python, but I do plan on adding some
kind of integration with lxml (since that's what I always use for
screen scraping).


--- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:

> Hey hey,
> 
> It's that time of the month again, next ChiPy is only a few days
> away!
> Do we have interested speakers?  Possible venue?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Mon May  5 18:33:21 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 11:33:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May meeting, talks & venue
In-Reply-To: <44335.34797.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Feihong Hsu's
	message of "Mon, 5 May 2008 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <44335.34797.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6yve1sww1a.fsf@imagescape.com>

That sounds pretty awesome.  I'd be interested in seeing a talk on that.

Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> writes:

> I made a screen scraping console called Cycloctopus. If anyone's
> interested, I'd be willing to do a short demo of it. I created it in
> XULRunner, so it's not coded in Python, but I do plan on adding some
> kind of integration with lxml (since that's what I always use for
> screen scraping).
>
>
> --- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey hey,
>> 
>> It's that time of the month again, next ChiPy is only a few days
>> away!
>> Do we have interested speakers?  Possible venue?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> 
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From subs at devolutions.org  Mon May  5 20:44:12 2008
From: subs at devolutions.org (Stephen R.)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 13:44:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
Message-ID: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>

I want to move a little web app I've built using a small (read 
homegrown) python web server (it just handles GET's) to a real web 
server so I can host it.  Who has suggestions for me?  :)

Stephen

From pradeep at btbytes.com  Mon May  5 21:08:51 2008
From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
In-Reply-To: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
References: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
Message-ID: <83911204-B7E3-4D44-BB9E-98283B717339@btbytes.com>

Try Webfaction.
http://www.webfaction.com/services/hosting
The admins of webfaction are python developers themselves.

Of course, if you can get your hands on it, Google Appengine will be  
a good choice too ;)

On 05-May-08, at 2:44 PM, Stephen R. wrote:

> I want to move a little web app I've built using a small (read  
> homegrown) python web server (it just handles GET's) to a real web  
> server so I can host it.  Who has suggestions for me?  :)
>
> Stephen
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May  5 22:51:19 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
In-Reply-To: <83911204-B7E3-4D44-BB9E-98283B717339@btbytes.com>
Message-ID: <718525.75506.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, I second the recommendation for WebFaction. Even in cheapest
shared hosting plan, they support mod_python and "long-running
processes" (which would be needed for, e.g., Zope). 

But it's way overkill for a single, simple web app. Try to get an
AppEngine account. Google is still handing them out in small batches,
so if you sign up for it you'll get an account eventually (probably
within a few months, if you can wait that long). Also, if you know
someone at Google you can ask them for an invite.


--- Pradeep Gowda <pradeep at btbytes.com> wrote:

> Try Webfaction.
> http://www.webfaction.com/services/hosting
> The admins of webfaction are python developers themselves.
> 
> Of course, if you can get your hands on it, Google Appengine will
> be  
> a good choice too ;)
> 
> On 05-May-08, at 2:44 PM, Stephen R. wrote:
> 
> > I want to move a little web app I've built using a small (read  
> > homegrown) python web server (it just handles GET's) to a real
> web  
> > server so I can host it.  Who has suggestions for me?  :)
> >
> > Stephen
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May  5 22:59:31 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:59:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
In-Reply-To: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
References: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805051359n78a502d2xe21f0182993c95e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Stephen R. <subs at devolutions.org> wrote:
> I want to move a little web app I've built using a small (read homegrown)
> python web server (it just handles GET's) to a real web server so I can host
> it.  Who has suggestions for me?  :)

unless I'm misreading your question, my answer would be: try Apache (+
mod_python, mod_wsgi or fastcgi) or Nginx (+ mod_wsgi).  There is
plenty of info via Google for how to run your web app under these web
servers.  Apache is more time-tested but I recently moved a Pylons app
to mod_wsgi on Nginx and it's been running great.

Or, yeah, you might not have to change your app much to get it running
on Google App Engine, which would be free.

From stephen at devolutions.org  Tue May  6 04:07:51 2008
From: stephen at devolutions.org (Stephen Rylander)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 21:07:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805051359n78a502d2xe21f0182993c95e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
	<b571660a0805051359n78a502d2xe21f0182993c95e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <481FBD77.7080207@devolutions.org>

Great ideas all.  I think the best is to wait for google app engine with 
a close second to try Nginx or apache.
Thanks gang.

Stephen


Kumar McMillan wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Stephen R. <subs at devolutions.org> wrote:
>   
>> I want to move a little web app I've built using a small (read homegrown)
>> python web server (it just handles GET's) to a real web server so I can host
>> it.  Who has suggestions for me?  :)
>>     
>
> unless I'm misreading your question, my answer would be: try Apache (+
> mod_python, mod_wsgi or fastcgi) or Nginx (+ mod_wsgi).  There is
> plenty of info via Google for how to run your web app under these web
> servers.  Apache is more time-tested but I recently moved a Pylons app
> to mod_wsgi on Nginx and it's been running great.
>
> Or, yeah, you might not have to change your app much to get it running
> on Google App Engine, which would be free.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   

From bray at sent.com  Tue May  6 05:09:24 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:09:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] May meeting, talks & venue
In-Reply-To: <6yve1sww1a.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <44335.34797.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6yve1sww1a.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <6A053275-76A2-4DE7-99EA-15453E161708@sent.com>

Sounds interesting to me.

Also, The Fixx is still an option. But I guess I need to find a  
projector. (I think I have one at the office I can bring but need to  
locate it).

Unless I hear an objection, I will send out and update the wiki  
tomorrow AM.

On May 5, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:

> That sounds pretty awesome.  I'd be interested in seeing a talk on  
> that.
>
> Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> I made a screen scraping console called Cycloctopus. If anyone's
>> interested, I'd be willing to do a short demo of it. I created it in
>> XULRunner, so it's not coded in Python, but I do plan on adding some
>> kind of integration with lxml (since that's what I always use for
>> screen scraping).
>>
>>
>> --- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey hey,
>>>
>>> It's that time of the month again, next ChiPy is only a few days
>>> away!
>>> Do we have interested speakers?  Possible venue?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>       
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From bray at sent.com  Tue May  6 17:31:40 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 10:31:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy May Meeting
Message-ID: <1210087900.16516.1251690001@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

Come join us for our best meeting ever! 

When
----

Thursday, May 8th, ~7pm  

Topics
------
  
 * The Screen craping console, Cycloctopus (Feighong Hsu)
 * Demonstration on using the built-in Unit Testing Django Apps (Brian
 Ray)
 * How to get back to coding and recover from Cinco de Mayo with lots of
 strong Coffee (The Fixx Staff)
 

Location
--------

`The Fixx Coffee Bar <http://tinyurl.com/6nvrpw>`_ This is a new venue
on the North side (Lakeview). Two blocks from Belmont "L" Brown, Red,
and Purple line stations.  Metered and Permit street parking available.
Also pay parking available at the The Vic condo building across the
street from The Vic Theater.

We will probably head to Matilda's or somewhere near by for drinks and
socialization after the meeting.


About ChiPy
-----------

ChiPy is a group of Chicago Python Programmers, l33t, and n00bs.
Meetings are held monthly at various locations around Chicago.
Also, ChiPy is a proud sponsor of many Open Source and Educational
efforts in Chicago. Stay tuned to the mailing list for more info.

ChiPy website: <http://chipy.org>
ChiPy Mailing List: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
Python website: <http://python.org>



From bray at sent.com  Tue May  6 18:29:44 2008
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 11:29:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1210087900.16516.1251690001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1210087900.16516.1251690001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1210091384.27014.1251707605@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Tue, 06 May 2008 10:31:40 -0500, bray at sent.com said:
>   
>  * The Screen craping console, Cycloctopus (Feighong Hsu)


"scraping" not "craping." My bad. :)

-- Brian



From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 20:25:34 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy May Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1210091384.27014.1251707605@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <735712.4430.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Whoa now! 

Thanks for the correction, Brian, my reputation nearly ended up in
the toilet ;-)


--- bray at sent.com wrote:

> 
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 10:31:40 -0500, bray at sent.com said:
> >   
> >  * The Screen craping console, Cycloctopus (Feighong Hsu)
> 
> 
> "scraping" not "craping." My bad. :)
> 
> -- Brian
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From mikef at arbalest.com  Fri May  9 05:23:54 2008
From: mikef at arbalest.com (Mike Fried)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 22:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Choosing an Open Source License
Message-ID: <a08edf750805082023v3f8c2ad5s63b185090c531b1a@mail.gmail.com>

Good meeting tonight.

As I mentioned, here is a repost of the link to the survey
that is being used for a (student) paper on the how/why
that goes into choosing one open source license over
another for a project.

So, if you've participated in making such a decision please
take 2 minutes to do this survey. Thanks to those of you
that filled it out last time.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=RHoaoVbsFOG1CCrp9qPVrA_3d_3d

The results/paper will be made available in some form or
another.

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 15:23:49 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 06:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Cycloctopus Presentation
Message-ID: <680821.19718.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I cleaned up my presentation from last night and posted the handout
here:

http://cycloctopus.googlecode.com/svn/docs/presentation/handout.html

The handout contains all my notes (including many hyperlinks), but
you can also view the actual slides here:

http://cycloctopus.googlecode.com/svn/docs/presentation/slides.html

Enjoy!




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From ph at malaprop.org  Fri May  9 23:21:10 2008
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:21:10 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] web server for python development
In-Reply-To: <481FBD77.7080207@devolutions.org>
References: <481F557C.7050406@devolutions.org>
	<b571660a0805051359n78a502d2xe21f0182993c95e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<481FBD77.7080207@devolutions.org>
Message-ID: <20080509212110.GG7612@malaprop.org>

On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 09:07:51PM -0500, Stephen Rylander wrote:
> Great ideas all.  I think the best is to wait for google app engine with a 
> close second to try Nginx or apache.

For what it's worth, I did not make the original 10k accounts they
opened but got an invite last week. I have no idea how large the queue
is, but they are adding more users.

And so far, it's quite fun to play with.


--
Peter Harkins  -  http://push.cx  -  http://NearbyGamers.com



From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 15:06:25 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
Message-ID: <547901.74974.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone, 

I've looked at
http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/bulkload.html but I still
have a problem bulk loading from my CSV file. This is the error I
get:

ERROR    2008-05-12 07:51:50,421 bulkload_client.py] An error
occurred while importing: Received code 302: Requires login

Does anybody know how to resolve this?

Thanks,
Feihong




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May 12 15:29:43 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:29:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <547901.74974.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <547901.74974.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've looked at
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/bulkload.html but I still
> have a problem bulk loading from my CSV file. This is the error I
> get:
>
> ERROR    2008-05-12 07:51:50,421 bulkload_client.py] An error
> occurred while importing: Received code 302: Requires login
>
> Does anybody know how to resolve this?

you have to first login somewhere (anywhere on your app engine) then
get the cookie value in your browser.  It looks like ACSID=... Next,
the bulk client has a --cookie arg where you literally send it the
cookie.  For the paranoid out there note that appengine has yet to
support ssl.  Also, note that there are Unicode problems that you will
run into if you try and bulkload non-ascii :
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list?q=unicode&can=2

You can work around some of them but there is at least one internal
one in google's own datastore proxies that I've found.

Separate but related ... this is kind of cool: http://tinydb.org/
(runs on appengine)

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon May 12 17:02:36 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:02:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] last thursday's meeting
Message-ID: <a68ced640805120802i2f966a43r39ded62be0bd43b2@mail.gmail.com>

I missed you guys last Thursday but I was still able to go to a good
python talk. Since erlang is popular where I work, I will try the
exercise Kumar pointed to me on writing something in both stackless
and erlang to compare the experience. This should be good since I am a
newbie at both.

My company sent me to JavaOne last week, and there were a number of
talks on jython/python. Not to mention a talk two of our guys gave
with a nod at the end towards graphite, which is a tool done by
someone in house that is now open source and which is built on python.
uses django, pypeD,... I am actually too ignorant to give any indepth
details so I'll stop here. Anyway, I love the tool and can show it in
action if anyone is curious.

One of the coolest talks I went to was not at JavaOne but at the
BayPiggies meeting thursday night. Christian Tismer gave a talk on
Stackless.

um, I'm back at work and have no time to finish this email properly.


-- 
sheila

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 18:15:00 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] last thursday's meeting
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640805120802i2f966a43r39ded62be0bd43b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <643244.45528.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just to be avoid confusion, Sheila means the Graphite project
described here:

http://graphite.wikidot.com/

Not the one described here:

http://graphite.sourceforge.net/

Both are Python projects that have something to do with graphs, but
only the first one was done at Orbitz.

I think it would be really cool to see a demo of Graphite. 

Speaking of Stackless, my former place of employment is about to roll
out a production system running on Stackless.

--- sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> I missed you guys last Thursday but I was still able to go to a
> good
> python talk. Since erlang is popular where I work, I will try the
> exercise Kumar pointed to me on writing something in both stackless
> and erlang to compare the experience. This should be good since I
> am a
> newbie at both.
> 
> My company sent me to JavaOne last week, and there were a number of
> talks on jython/python. Not to mention a talk two of our guys gave
> with a nod at the end towards graphite, which is a tool done by
> someone in house that is now open source and which is built on
> python.
> uses django, pypeD,... I am actually too ignorant to give any
> indepth
> details so I'll stop here. Anyway, I love the tool and can show it
> in
> action if anyone is curious.
> 
> One of the coolest talks I went to was not at JavaOne but at the
> BayPiggies meeting thursday night. Christian Tismer gave a talk on
> Stackless.
> 
> um, I'm back at work and have no time to finish this email
> properly.
> 
> 
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May 12 18:20:54 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 09:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My cookie value doesn't look like that on the dev server, but I
assume that's what it is when you try it on production. 

Thanks for anticipating my Unicode problem there, it just so happens
that every single one of my entities has Unicode strings. I just
upgraded to version 1.0.2 of the SDK and they still haven't fixed
this annoying problem.


--- Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've looked at
> > http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/bulkload.html but I
> still
> > have a problem bulk loading from my CSV file. This is the error I
> > get:
> >
> > ERROR    2008-05-12 07:51:50,421 bulkload_client.py] An error
> > occurred while importing: Received code 302: Requires login
> >
> > Does anybody know how to resolve this?
> 
> you have to first login somewhere (anywhere on your app engine)
> then
> get the cookie value in your browser.  It looks like ACSID=...
> Next,
> the bulk client has a --cookie arg where you literally send it the
> cookie.  For the paranoid out there note that appengine has yet to
> support ssl.  Also, note that there are Unicode problems that you
> will
> run into if you try and bulkload non-ascii :
>
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list?q=unicode&can=2
> 
> You can work around some of them but there is at least one internal
> one in google's own datastore proxies that I've found.
> 
> Separate but related ... this is kind of cool: http://tinydb.org/
> (runs on appengine)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May 12 18:51:33 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:51:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> My cookie value doesn't look like that on the dev server, but I
>  assume that's what it is when you try it on production.
>
>  Thanks for anticipating my Unicode problem there, it just so happens
>  that every single one of my entities has Unicode strings. I just
>  upgraded to version 1.0.2 of the SDK and they still haven't fixed
>  this annoying problem.

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list?q=unicode&can=2

everyone should star these issues ;)


in the meantime, you'd have to patch bulkload_client to use the
unicode_csv_reader hack:
http://docs.python.org/lib/csv-examples.html

and then see if it works.  if you run into the same problem I was
having with  datastore_types.ToPropertyPb() then I suppose you'll have
to give up and create a wrapper that does line.encode('ascii',
'replace').  That would at least give you some data to work with in
your app.  Then you can reload it when they fix Unicode.


K

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 12 19:17:36 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>

Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do  
people lock sessions stored in bigtables?

Massimo

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May 12 19:30:23 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:30:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805121030p4c6cc903i7a5800cf096397ae@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
>  The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do people
> lock sessions stored in bigtables?

you could poke around the trunk of Beaker:
https://www.knowledgetap.com/hg/beaker/archive/tip.tar.gz (beaker.ext.google)
http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/beaker/Home

Beaker is a session/cache lib for Pylons and support for appengine was
added recently.

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May 12 19:34:49 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:34:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805121034j18fbb5aat5bba2b69db8085d2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
>  The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do people
> lock sessions stored in bigtables?

a more specific answer: you can update appengine objects by
constructing them with a key_name.  More info:
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/keysandentitygroups.html

that is, if you say s = Story(key_name="xzy123") and an object with
that key_name already exists, then you will be updating it.

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 12 20:50:41 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:50:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805121034j18fbb5aat5bba2b69db8085d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805121034j18fbb5aat5bba2b69db8085d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B03F310A-1287-4BAA-950B-06B2A5102554@cs.depaul.edu>

This is the problem.
In order to lock a session I need first to check that it has not been  
locked already.
I can only mark it as locked after I have performed the check.
If if perform the check and then the update in separate statements I  
enter in a race condition.
As far as I know there is no API to perform a conditional update.

Am I wrong?

Massimo


On May 12, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
>>  The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do  
>> people
>> lock sessions stored in bigtables?
>
> a more specific answer: you can update appengine objects by
> constructing them with a key_name.  More info:
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/ 
> keysandentitygroups.html
>
> that is, if you say s = Story(key_name="xzy123") and an object with
> that key_name already exists, then you will be updating it.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 12 20:56:08 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:56:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805121030p4c6cc903i7a5800cf096397ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805121030p4c6cc903i7a5800cf096397ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <757EC124-5B9D-41BC-9EB4-FDD6DF4BCDFA@cs.depaul.edu>

Thank you. I am not familiar with Beaker and I will take a look.
If I use to Bearker to store sessions serverside (in database) does  
it lock session? How does it do it on GAE?

Massimo

On May 12, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
>>  The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do  
>> people
>> lock sessions stored in bigtables?
>
> you could poke around the trunk of Beaker:
> https://www.knowledgetap.com/hg/beaker/archive/tip.tar.gz  
> (beaker.ext.google)
> http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/beaker/Home
>
> Beaker is a session/cache lib for Pylons and support for appengine was
> added recently.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 12 21:08:00 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:08:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805121030p4c6cc903i7a5800cf096397ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805121030p4c6cc903i7a5800cf096397ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B57C96D3-41B6-4A06-B5F9-82CD0A4BB189@cs.depaul.edu>

this is what the source code of Beaker says:

     # datastore does its own locking (or does it? who knows).   
override our
     # own stuff
     def do_acquire_read_lock(self): pass
     def do_release_read_lock(self): pass
     def do_acquire_write_lock(self, wait = True): return True
     def do_release_write_lock(self): pass

I believe the datastore does not do its own locking. So Beaker does  
not lock sessions.

Massimo

Cookie-only sessions to remove the need for a db or file backend  
(ideal for clustered systems)

On May 12, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> Does anybody have experience with session locking on appengine?
>>  The appengine does not have an update....where command so how do  
>> people
>> lock sessions stored in bigtables?
>
> you could poke around the trunk of Beaker:
> https://www.knowledgetap.com/hg/beaker/archive/tip.tar.gz  
> (beaker.ext.google)
> http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/beaker/Home
>
> Beaker is a session/cache lib for Pylons and support for appengine was
> added recently.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080512/9da0751a/attachment.htm>

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Mon May 12 21:09:22 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:09:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <B03F310A-1287-4BAA-950B-06B2A5102554@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805121034j18fbb5aat5bba2b69db8085d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<B03F310A-1287-4BAA-950B-06B2A5102554@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <276266d0805121209se05829ak6ecb196960142620@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> This is the problem.
>  In order to lock a session I need first to check that it has not been
> locked already.
>  I can only mark it as locked after I have performed the check.
>  If if perform the check and then the update in separate statements I enter
> in a race condition.
>  As far as I know there is no API to perform a conditional update.
>
>  Am I wrong?
>

Are you familiar with datastore transactions?
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/transactions.html

here's an example that should work

def lock_session(key):
  session = db.get(key)
  if session.locked:
    raise ValueError("Session with key %s is already locked" % key)
  else:
    session.locked = True
    session.put()

db.run_in_transaction(lock_session, session_key_name)

If there are concurrent updates to the same object while your
transaction is running Google will restart your transaction a fixed
number of times. If the function raises an exception Google will abort
the transaction.


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 12 21:27:21 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:27:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] appengine session locking
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805121209se05829ak6ecb196960142620@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0805120629p26698bf3kf23077da009a7245@mail.gmail.com>
	<251446.19491.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<DD5F5B78-AF4C-421B-A878-2905AE88665B@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805121034j18fbb5aat5bba2b69db8085d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<B03F310A-1287-4BAA-950B-06B2A5102554@cs.depaul.edu>
	<276266d0805121209se05829ak6ecb196960142620@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1BCAE06-151E-4BB5-A7EE-DEF6BCF1CF64@cs.depaul.edu>

Great! This is the information I was missing.
Thanks,

Massimo


On May 12, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> This is the problem.
>>  In order to lock a session I need first to check that it has not  
>> been
>> locked already.
>>  I can only mark it as locked after I have performed the check.
>>  If if perform the check and then the update in separate  
>> statements I enter
>> in a race condition.
>>  As far as I know there is no API to perform a conditional update.
>>
>>  Am I wrong?
>>
>
> Are you familiar with datastore transactions?
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/transactions.html
>
> here's an example that should work
>
> def lock_session(key):
>   session = db.get(key)
>   if session.locked:
>     raise ValueError("Session with key %s is already locked" % key)
>   else:
>     session.locked = True
>     session.put()
>
> db.run_in_transaction(lock_session, session_key_name)
>
> If there are concurrent updates to the same object while your
> transaction is running Google will restart your transaction a fixed
> number of times. If the function raises an exception Google will abort
> the transaction.
>
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 03:29:27 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Argh. I can't use "line.encode('ascii', 'replace')" because many of
the strings in my app are ALL Unicode, and there would be no
distinction between them anymore.

Well, the BulkLoad class is just another WSGI app, so I can write my
own custom bulk loading app and it shouldn't perform any worse,
right?

Anyway, I have about 45k entities to load. Is there anyone with
experience bulk loading a large number of items to AppEngine? Do I
even want to know how long that's gonna take?


--- Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > My cookie value doesn't look like that on the dev server, but I
> >  assume that's what it is when you try it on production.
> >
> >  Thanks for anticipating my Unicode problem there, it just so
> happens
> >  that every single one of my entities has Unicode strings. I just
> >  upgraded to version 1.0.2 of the SDK and they still haven't
> fixed
> >  this annoying problem.
> 
>
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list?q=unicode&can=2
> 
> everyone should star these issues ;)
> 
> 
> in the meantime, you'd have to patch bulkload_client to use the
> unicode_csv_reader hack:
> http://docs.python.org/lib/csv-examples.html
> 
> and then see if it works.  if you run into the same problem I was
> having with  datastore_types.ToPropertyPb() then I suppose you'll
> have
> to give up and create a wrapper that does line.encode('ascii',
> 'replace').  That would at least give you some data to work with in
> your app.  Then you can reload it when they fix Unicode.
> 
> 
> K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Tue May 13 03:45:11 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:45:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <b571660a0805120951o5643522v465b057c231eb094@mail.gmail.com>
	<994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805121845sbaa196cqa695d623e8c8f402@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Argh. I can't use "line.encode('ascii', 'replace')" because many of
> the strings in my app are ALL Unicode, and there would be no
> distinction between them anymore.
>
> Well, the BulkLoad class is just another WSGI app, so I can write my
> own custom bulk loading app and it shouldn't perform any worse,
> right?

you can copy it out and patch it up for some Unicode stuff but you
might still run in to trouble with the internal datastore Unicode
problems.  I don't know how far you can get patching internal
datastore objects in the production env but it's worth a try ;)

>
> Anyway, I have about 45k entities to load. Is there anyone with
> experience bulk loading a large number of items to AppEngine? Do I
> even want to know how long that's gonna take?

if you try it on your local dev server then you are going to see
things grind to sad, pathetic halt very soon.  It seems to me that the
SDK version of the datastore is a dict object or something.  I.E. fill
it up with more than 1000 rows and your computer will cry.

That said, you're best off just getting it all to work on your
production db.  It's very fast to bulk load in production.

From jquigley at jquigley.com  Tue May 13 07:53:54 2008
From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 00:53:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Lisp meeting and workshop
Message-ID: <48292CF2.9090900@jquigley.com>

Hey Folks:

Chicago Lisp is meeting this coming Friday, May 16 at 7:00pm.  We'll be at the CashNetUSA Offices, at 200 W Jackson Blvd, Chicago, IL 60606 [1].  Slated presentations to be:

    - An Object System Using Macros (Grant Rattke)
    - Kawa and Clojure (Steve Githens) 

I'd also like to notify you that we'll be hosting a 3- to 4-hour Lisp Workshop for beginners, the purpose of which will be to get you entirely bootstrapped and productive in a Lisp environment by the time you leave.  We'll be hosting this on Saturday, May 31 at 3:00pm at the Institute of Design, at 350 N LaSalle Blvd, 2nd floor, Chicago, IL 60610 [2].  More information about this on our wiki [3].

Please visit us at our new homepage:

http://www.chicagolisp.org/

and consider joining our discussion list for event notifications:

https://www.chicagolisp.org/lists/listinfo/chicago-lisp-discuss

Sorry for this off-topic email to your list, it will be the last.  We're a new group and we're simply trying to get the word out to Chicago developers about our existence.  We're open to absolutely everyone, and we'd love to meet you, so please consider joining us.  Thanks very much, and,

All my best,
John Quigley

[1] CashNetUSA Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/5n9pms
[2] Institute of Design Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/34gkzt
[3] Lisp Workshop info: http://www.chicagolisp.org/wiki/doku.php?id=lispworkshop

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Tue May 13 17:25:07 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:25:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next month meeting topics and venues
Message-ID: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>

Hey, maybe we can organize next month's meeting more than like, 4 days
before we meet :) Starting the obligatory topics and venues thread
here...

Also, I was thinking of giving some stupid little topic on either
PyGTK or Gstreamer.  Maybe both?  Maybe its too much to give a talk on
combining both.  Anyone have an interest in one or both of those
topics?

From warren.lindsey at gmail.com  Tue May 13 18:19:20 2008
From: warren.lindsey at gmail.com (Warren Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next month meeting topics and venues
In-Reply-To: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <841e880a0805130919n5033e3bduea68c0923fa5d1b7@mail.gmail.com>

Gstreamer +1

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Christopher Allan Webber
<cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
> Hey, maybe we can organize next month's meeting more than like, 4 days
>  before we meet :) Starting the obligatory topics and venues thread
>  here...
>
>  Also, I was thinking of giving some stupid little topic on either
>  PyGTK or Gstreamer.  Maybe both?  Maybe its too much to give a talk on
>  combining both.  Anyone have an interest in one or both of those
>  topics?
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From g at rrett.us.com  Tue May 13 18:37:53 2008
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:37:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Next month meeting topics and venues
In-Reply-To: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <1300280474.522801210696673051.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>

I can present an AppEngine DocTest tutorial, which will combine the massive scalability of AppEngine with the funky awesomeness of Python doctest.

----- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
> Hey, maybe we can organize next month's meeting more than like, 4 days
> before we meet :) Starting the obligatory topics and venues thread
> here...
> 
> Also, I was thinking of giving some stupid little topic on either
> PyGTK or Gstreamer.  Maybe both?  Maybe its too much to give a talk on
> combining both.  Anyone have an interest in one or both of those
> topics?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From special.kevin at gmail.com  Tue May 13 18:41:09 2008
From: special.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Harriss)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next month meeting topics and venues
In-Reply-To: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <1210696869.6221.0.camel@caseyjones>

PyGTK +1
Gstreamer +1

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 10:25 -0500, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
> Hey, maybe we can organize next month's meeting more than like, 4 days
> before we meet :) Starting the obligatory topics and venues thread
> here...
> 
> Also, I was thinking of giving some stupid little topic on either
> PyGTK or Gstreamer.  Maybe both?  Maybe its too much to give a talk on
> combining both.  Anyone have an interest in one or both of those
> topics?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue May 13 20:26:37 2008
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4829DD5D.802@colorstudy.com>

Feihong Hsu wrote:
> Argh. I can't use "line.encode('ascii', 'replace')" because many of
> the strings in my app are ALL Unicode, and there would be no
> distinction between them anymore.

There's several ASCII-safe encodings, like unicode_escape (which uses 
Python string-literal escapes).  They are listed in the codecs module. 
Of course, you might not want to store them in the datastore that way 
either.

-- 
Ian Bicking : ianb at colorstudy.com : http://blog.ianbicking.org

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Tue May 13 20:27:14 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:27:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Next month meeting topics and venues
In-Reply-To: <1300280474.522801210696673051.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>
References: <6yiqxiql9o.fsf@imagescape.com>
	<1300280474.522801210696673051.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805131127s3a057263x5a29b123629d1f27@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Gstreamer
+1 DocTest for AppEngine (I'm very curious about this.  Could be
complimentary to Trestle maybe?
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/trestle/0.2a1 )

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rrett.us.com> wrote:
> I can present an AppEngine DocTest tutorial, which will combine the massive scalability of AppEngine with the funky awesomeness of Python doctest.
>
>
>
>  ----- Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at imagescape.com> wrote:
>  > Hey, maybe we can organize next month's meeting more than like, 4 days
>  > before we meet :) Starting the obligatory topics and venues thread
>  > here...
>  >
>  > Also, I was thinking of giving some stupid little topic on either
>  > PyGTK or Gstreamer.  Maybe both?  Maybe its too much to give a talk on
>  > combining both.  Anyone have an interest in one or both of those
>  > topics?
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Chicago mailing list
>  > Chicago at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Chicago mailing list
>  Chicago at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 20:49:22 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio 2008, July 26
Message-ID: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just noticed this on the Python News feed:

PyOhio: Call for Presentations

PyOhio, the first annual Python programming mini-conference for Ohio
and surrounding areas will take place Saturday, July 26, in Columbus,
Ohio. The conference is free of change and will include scheduled
presentations, Lightning Talks and unconference-style Open Spaces.

You can read more about the conference at http://pyohio.org

PyOhio invites all interested people to present scheduled talks. All
presentations are expected to last 40 minutes with a 10 minute
question-and-answer period. PyOhio will accept abstracts covering any
area of Python programming. A classroom area with computers will also
be available for possible hands-on sessions.

... (see the rest at
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyOhio/CallForProposals)

------------------

Is there anybody else interested in going to this? Carpooling and
hotel room sharing might be possible. How long does it take to drive
to Columbus anyway?

Note that the submission deadline for proposals is June 1. So if you
have something you'd like to present, get a move on.

- Feihong




      

From varmaa at gmail.com  Tue May 13 21:00:32 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:00:32 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio 2008, July 26
In-Reply-To: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370805131200y6ad7ed8ck55930fbc8ef34016@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Is there anybody else interested in going to this? Carpooling and
> hotel room sharing might be possible. How long does it take to drive
> to Columbus anyway?
>
>
I'm interested in going, but I won't be able to make it, unfortunately.  It
takes about 5 to 6.5 hours to get to Columbus, depending on how fast you
drive.

- Atul
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080513/32bffca5/attachment.htm>

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue May 13 21:02:33 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:02:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <4829DD5D.802@colorstudy.com>
References: <994216.47635.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4829DD5D.802@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <4829E5C9.7020002@personnelware.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Feihong Hsu wrote:
>> Argh. I can't use "line.encode('ascii', 'replace')" because many of
>> the strings in my app are ALL Unicode, and there would be no
>> distinction between them anymore.
> 
> There's several ASCII-safe encodings, like unicode_escape (which uses 
> Python string-literal escapes).  They are listed in the codecs module. 
> Of course, you might not want to store them in the datastore that way 
> either.
> 

Is the datastore on the other side of the IO barrier that requires Unicode data 
to be encoded?

Carl K

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 21:29:21 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <4829E5C9.7020002@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <494790.28220.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yeah, it's their server-side code that needs to be patched. I wrote
my own custom bulk load WSGI app because I absolutely must have
Unicode strings for my app. I'll let you guys know how it goes after
I finish doing the bulk load tonight.

The dev server's datastore absolutely blows. I got up to 1780
entities and it just slowed to a crawl, even though I was uploading
less than 1 KB per request.


--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Feihong Hsu wrote:
> >> Argh. I can't use "line.encode('ascii', 'replace')" because many
> of
> >> the strings in my app are ALL Unicode, and there would be no
> >> distinction between them anymore.
> > 
> > There's several ASCII-safe encodings, like unicode_escape (which
> uses 
> > Python string-literal escapes).  They are listed in the codecs
> module. 
> > Of course, you might not want to store them in the datastore that
> way 
> > either.
> > 
> 
> Is the datastore on the other side of the IO barrier that requires
> Unicode data 
> to be encoded?
> 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk  Tue May 13 21:51:22 2008
From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:51:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio 2008, July 26
In-Reply-To: <361b27370805131200y6ad7ed8ck55930fbc8ef34016@mail.gmail.com>
References: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<361b27370805131200y6ad7ed8ck55930fbc8ef34016@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4829F13A.7060406@caret.cam.ac.uk>

Atul Varma wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     Is there anybody else interested in going to this? Carpooling and
>     hotel room sharing might be possible. How long does it take to drive
>     to Columbus anyway?
>
>
> I'm interested in going, but I won't be able to make it, 
> unfortunately.  It takes about 5 to 6.5 hours to get to Columbus, 
> depending on how fast you drive.
The megabus goes to Columbus too, and only seems to take 9 hours.  If 
you can manage to be first in line and get a windshield seat on the 
second floor it's pretty sweet.  ( Took one to Minneapolis a week ago 
for a meeting. )

-Steve
>
> - Atul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   


From carl at personnelware.com  Tue May 13 22:03:44 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 15:03:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio 2008, July 26
In-Reply-To: <4829F13A.7060406@caret.cam.ac.uk>
References: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<361b27370805131200y6ad7ed8ck55930fbc8ef34016@mail.gmail.com>
	<4829F13A.7060406@caret.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4829F420.1090100@personnelware.com>

swg wrote:
> Atul Varma wrote:
>> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com 
>> <mailto:hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Is there anybody else interested in going to this? Carpooling and
>>     hotel room sharing might be possible. How long does it take to drive
>>     to Columbus anyway?
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in going, but I won't be able to make it, 
>> unfortunately.  It takes about 5 to 6.5 hours to get to Columbus, 
>> depending on how fast you drive.
> The megabus goes to Columbus too, and only seems to take 9 hours.  If 
> you can manage to be first in line and get a windshield seat on the 
> second floor it's pretty sweet.  ( Took one to Minneapolis a week ago 
> for a meeting. )

Do they have any power?

Amtrack cars have power.  Sprinting at 60mph across state lines has a nice ring 
to it.

Carl K

From sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk  Tue May 13 22:20:42 2008
From: sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk (swg)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 15:20:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyOhio 2008, July 26
In-Reply-To: <4829F420.1090100@personnelware.com>
References: <155113.76417.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<361b27370805131200y6ad7ed8ck55930fbc8ef34016@mail.gmail.com>	<4829F13A.7060406@caret.cam.ac.uk>
	<4829F420.1090100@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <4829F81A.5080104@caret.cam.ac.uk>

Carl Karsten wrote:
> swg wrote:
>> Atul Varma wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com 
>>> <mailto:hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Is there anybody else interested in going to this? Carpooling and
>>>     hotel room sharing might be possible. How long does it take to 
>>> drive
>>>     to Columbus anyway?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm interested in going, but I won't be able to make it, 
>>> unfortunately.  It takes about 5 to 6.5 hours to get to Columbus, 
>>> depending on how fast you drive.
>> The megabus goes to Columbus too, and only seems to take 9 hours.  If 
>> you can manage to be first in line and get a windshield seat on the 
>> second floor it's pretty sweet.  ( Took one to Minneapolis a week ago 
>> for a meeting. )
>
> Do they have any power?
>
> Amtrack cars have power.  Sprinting at 60mph across state lines has a 
> nice ring to it.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the Amtrak.   Unforunately, the megabus didn't 
have any outlets, but I had this very long Alan Turing biography to pass 
the time.  (It's pretty good)

 http://www.amazon.com/Alan-Turing-Enigma-Andrew-Hodges/dp/0802775802/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210709346&sr=8-1
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed May 14 02:43:06 2008
From: MDiPierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 19:43:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] django users
Message-ID: <8730F62A-7B0D-44C8-AE77-39304B94A274@cs.depaul.edu>

Sorry to intrude again. To the Django users: could you please check I  
am not saying anything wrong about Django?

http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/AlterEgo/default/show/101

Massimo

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed May 14 19:51:32 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:51:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <494790.28220.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4829E5C9.7020002@personnelware.com>
	<494790.28220.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805141051u21e72a68i53ede8e52a7331f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The dev server's datastore absolutely blows. I got up to 1780
> entities and it just slowed to a crawl, even though I was uploading
> less than 1 KB per request.

yeah, I'd say forget about it.  It will never finish.  Just load into
production.  Don't call it Agile, call it Cowboy!

From ph at malaprop.org  Wed May 14 20:10:50 2008
From: ph at malaprop.org (Peter Harkins)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:10:50 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] django users
In-Reply-To: <8730F62A-7B0D-44C8-AE77-39304B94A274@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <8730F62A-7B0D-44C8-AE77-39304B94A274@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <20080514181050.GM7116@malaprop.org>

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 07:43:06PM -0500, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
> Sorry to intrude again. To the Django users: could you please check I am 
> not saying anything wrong about Django?

You have an example for inserting records:
p=Poll(question='What's up?',pub_date=datetime.datetime.now())
p.save()

This would more likely be written:
p = Poll.objects.create(question='What's up?',pub_date=datetime.datetime.now())

Otherwise all the Django stuff looks idiomatic to me. Thanks for writing
this, I've been curious about web2py and found it a nice introduction.


--
Peter Harkins  -  http://push.cx  -  http://NearbyGamers.com



From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed May 14 20:22:01 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:22:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] django users
In-Reply-To: <20080514181050.GM7116@malaprop.org>
References: <8730F62A-7B0D-44C8-AE77-39304B94A274@cs.depaul.edu>
	<20080514181050.GM7116@malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <576CBDB3-E475-4E16-B42F-05E2AFC9EF50@cs.depaul.edu>

Thanks, I was following the example on the Django documentation.
I will add an OR


On May 14, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Peter Harkins wrote:

> .objects.create

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080514/eac830eb/attachment.htm>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Wed May 14 20:23:28 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:23:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] django users
In-Reply-To: <20080514181050.GM7116@malaprop.org>
References: <8730F62A-7B0D-44C8-AE77-39304B94A274@cs.depaul.edu>
	<20080514181050.GM7116@malaprop.org>
Message-ID: <B40E8091-E764-4A65-8830-60CD12382F7F@cs.depaul.edu>

BTW, on http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu/AlterEgo there is a similar  
comparison with TG and one on Rails (incomplete).


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 15:03:09 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:03:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805141051u21e72a68i53ede8e52a7331f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <401509.14958.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Argh, bulk loading to production was a disaster. I kept getting
"BadStatusLine" and "Software caused connection abort" errors. It
might have been due to an unstable connection, though. 

During bulk load I would try to process 50 lines of CSV text. 
I think I might have gotten some timeouts, so when I retried the
upload I got some redundant entities in my datastore. To be on the
safe side, I'll try going one line at a time from now on. I think
that's what Google's bulk loader does anyway.

- Feihong


--- Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The dev server's datastore absolutely blows. I got up to 1780
> > entities and it just slowed to a crawl, even though I was
> uploading
> > less than 1 KB per request.
> 
> yeah, I'd say forget about it.  It will never finish.  Just load
> into
> production.  Don't call it Agile, call it Cowboy!
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Thu May 15 17:51:11 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:51:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <401509.14958.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <b571660a0805141051u21e72a68i53ede8e52a7331f@mail.gmail.com>
	<401509.14958.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0805150851p5de25c53q8f7af10db7da2d72@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Argh, bulk loading to production was a disaster. I kept getting
> "BadStatusLine" and "Software caused connection abort" errors. It
> might have been due to an unstable connection, though.
>
> During bulk load I would try to process 50 lines of CSV text.
> I think I might have gotten some timeouts, so when I retried the
> upload I got some redundant entities in my datastore. To be on the
> safe side, I'll try going one line at a time from now on. I think
> that's what Google's bulk loader does anyway.
>

I ended up writing a custom loader and giving every entry a keyname to
prevent duplicate imports (importing the same thing twice would just
update the entry in the data store). I had a slightly more complicated
scenario than the bulk loader seemed to handle (or at least I was too
lazy to read the entire documentation).

I also wanted the ability to delete items using the bulk import tool
(so I can feed it a diff between CSV files and correctly add and
delete item). My code is available at
http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master/metratime/bulkloader


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From carl at personnelware.com  Thu May 15 18:26:56 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:26:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
Message-ID: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>

Who here needs an invite?

I want to host some sort of sprint, and can make sure anyone who might attend 
gets an account before hand.  no obligation to attend, so pretty much 'free 
invites' - not sure how many is reasonable - if I get too many, I'll drop the 
people who have never posted to the list and popped up for the invite.

If you want one, send me your gmail addy.

Carl K

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 19:44:18 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:44:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] AppEngine Bulk Loading
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805150851p5de25c53q8f7af10db7da2d72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <576991.89664.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ah, yes. I didn't know that it's possible to just use
Model.get_or_insert() and explicitly set the key_name attribute. I
should've done that from the beginning. Now I don't have to worry
about processing 50 rows and timing out in the middle. 


--- Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Argh, bulk loading to production was a disaster. I kept getting
> > "BadStatusLine" and "Software caused connection abort" errors. It
> > might have been due to an unstable connection, though.
> >
> > During bulk load I would try to process 50 lines of CSV text.
> > I think I might have gotten some timeouts, so when I retried the
> > upload I got some redundant entities in my datastore. To be on
> the
> > safe side, I'll try going one line at a time from now on. I think
> > that's what Google's bulk loader does anyway.
> >
> 
> I ended up writing a custom loader and giving every entry a keyname
> to
> prevent duplicate imports (importing the same thing twice would
> just
> update the entry in the data store). I had a slightly more
> complicated
> scenario than the bulk loader seemed to handle (or at least I was
> too
> lazy to read the entire documentation).
> 
> I also wanted the ability to delete items using the bulk import
> tool
> (so I can feed it a diff between CSV files and correctly add and
> delete item). My code is available at
> http://github.com/cosmin/metratime/tree/master/metratime/bulkloader
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 19:47:02 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
In-Reply-To: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <597797.9947.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If Carl runs out, I have a friend who has more invites. Also, if you
sign up for AppEngine now, you might get an account in as little as a
few weeks.

--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> Who here needs an invite?
> 
> I want to host some sort of sprint, and can make sure anyone who
> might attend 
> gets an account before hand.  no obligation to attend, so pretty
> much 'free 
> invites' - not sure how many is reasonable - if I get too many,
> I'll drop the 
> people who have never posted to the list and popped up for the
> invite.
> 
> If you want one, send me your gmail addy.
> 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From mandric at gmail.com  Thu May 15 20:09:38 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:09:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
In-Reply-To: <597797.9947.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>
	<597797.9947.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <536089f30805151109h2fdb57c0he034f62d404a651b@mail.gmail.com>

I signed up for the beta a couple days after the announcement and
still haven't heard anything.  Just FYI.

--
Milan

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> If Carl runs out, I have a friend who has more invites. Also, if you
> sign up for AppEngine now, you might get an account in as little as a
> few weeks.
>
> --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>
>> Who here needs an invite?
>>
>> I want to host some sort of sprint, and can make sure anyone who
>> might attend
>> gets an account before hand.  no obligation to attend, so pretty
>> much 'free
>> invites' - not sure how many is reasonable - if I get too many,
>> I'll drop the
>> people who have never posted to the list and popped up for the
>> invite.
>>
>> If you want one, send me your gmail addy.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 20:31:31 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
In-Reply-To: <536089f30805151109h2fdb57c0he034f62d404a651b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <231728.91728.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I also signed up shortly after the announcement but was not among the
first 20,000. Maybe the waiting list is not strictly FIFO. Do you
have any projects hosted on Google Code?  

Anyway, just ask Carl (or me).


--- Milan Andric <mandric at gmail.com> wrote:

> I signed up for the beta a couple days after the announcement and
> still haven't heard anything.  Just FYI.
> 
> --
> Milan
> 
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Carl runs out, I have a friend who has more invites. Also, if
> you
> > sign up for AppEngine now, you might get an account in as little
> as a
> > few weeks.
> >
> > --- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Who here needs an invite?
> >>
> >> I want to host some sort of sprint, and can make sure anyone who
> >> might attend
> >> gets an account before hand.  no obligation to attend, so pretty
> >> much 'free
> >> invites' - not sure how many is reasonable - if I get too many,
> >> I'll drop the
> >> people who have never posted to the list and popped up for the
> >> invite.
> >>
> >> If you want one, send me your gmail addy.
> >>
> >> Carl K
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From ken at stox.org  Fri May 16 00:33:55 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:33:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
In-Reply-To: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>
References: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <1210890836.20277.1.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 11:26 -0500, Carl Karsten wrote:
> Who here needs an invite?

I would like an invite to tinker with:

ken.stox at gmail.com

Please feel welcome to bump me for someone who has a serious project
and/or will be attending the sprint. 

Thanks!

-Ken


From ken at stox.org  Fri May 16 00:41:48 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:41:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] app engine invites
In-Reply-To: <1210890836.20277.1.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
References: <482C6450.3020606@personnelware.com>
	<1210890836.20277.1.camel@stox.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1210891308.20277.3.camel@stox.dyndns.org>


Ooops, I meant to send that to Carl. :-(


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri May 16 18:28:41 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
Message-ID: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>

Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
(I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
bit is that you really have to go all in.

Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?

Chris

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Fri May 16 18:38:57 2008
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:38:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680805160938v180dc0ffl8af26a7188306b47@mail.gmail.com>

Why are you using the Macports version of python? I do a bunch of Python
stuff on my Macbook using the built in Python 2.5 and cheese shop. For other
stuff I use Fink which kicks butt.
Dan

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080516/803bede1/attachment.htm>

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Fri May 16 18:45:29 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:45:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0805160945tcc78dd8qdbb9edd01f486eff@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?
>

I've never actually used MacPorts for Python and related packages.
Usually I install everything using easy_install and just install the
non-python dependencies using MacPorts. You can use "port show" to see
a list of library dependencies for a package.


$ port info py25-lxml
py25-lxml 2.0.5, python/py25-lxml (Variants: universal)
[...]
Library Dependencies: python25, libxml2, libxslt, py25-hashlib,
py25-setuptools, py25-zlib

Then install all the non-python ones. This should allow any Python
package with native extensions to build just fine.


-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From tcp at mac.com  Fri May 16 18:49:23 2008
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:49:23 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FFF4E4B-9FD6-4054-B621-ABE0789E5518@mac.com>


On May 16, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be  
> alright?
>


We moved some our machines to MacPorts, but, frankly, I'm not too keen  
on it from the little I've personally worked with it -- I feel like  
it's just trading one set of problems for another.  For anything more  
substantial, I'd have to go back and figure out exactly why I formed  
that opinion as it's been a few months.

-ted

From mandric at gmail.com  Fri May 16 19:13:13 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:13:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <536089f30805161013y14bac824h990af7b30b012296@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?
>

I'm all in. I've been using Macports on OSX 10.4 in my production
environment for about 18 months.  It's helped immensely with upgrades
and well, managing packages. I used it to upgrade to from 2.4 to 2.5
quite smoothly about 3 months ago. On my dev environment I use 10.5
and 2.5.   There's just one or two libs I have to handle by hand.  I
couldn't live without it, but I use it for more than just python, like
all the great stuff out there.

--
Milan

From pfein at pobox.com  Fri May 16 19:31:49 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:31:49 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7493DD78-2233-4A58-87AE-3E8A4D686EB9@pobox.com>

On May 16, 2008, at 12:28 PM, Chris McAvoy wrote:

> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.

Yeah, I use it in preference to Apple's Python, which was missing a  
number of GPL'd modules I needed (gdbm, bsddb, forget what else).  I  
use macports for my base python installation + apps/libraries I'm not  
developing against (like ipython).  For dependencies for my own code,  
I tend to install via easy_install to my home dir.  I did the same  
thing on Ubuntu, fwiw - give me more control over my Python install w/ 
o stepping on the system install.

I also use macports for random OSS commandline-y stuff instead of  
compiling/installing by hand (like memcached & bash-completion).

> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be  
> alright?

Yes, it will be ok.  I had a few python-related problems but it's been  
working fine since then: http://trac.macports.org/search?q=pfein&ticket=on

More random non-obvious notes:
  1. see the FAQ about missing modules.  A number of stdlib modules  
are packaged separately, including SSL support.
  2. If you want `python` to run  macports python instead of apple's,  
install & run python_select
  3. http://porticus.alittledrop.com/ is a decent GUI
  4. if `port` isn't on your path after installing, visit #macports,  
they've got a fix in the topic (lame, but it works).

#macports is generally helpful too.


From korpios at korpios.com  Fri May 16 19:36:28 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:36:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90805161036x162ec53em4c0d425d63e808ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?

Sorry, no; it might be *acceptable*, but not alright.  ;-)  I've used
MacPorts quite a bit, and its dependency handling is *atrocious*.  The
moment versions matter, MacPorts ceases being able to make intelligent
decisions.  Fink, on the other hand, tends to be awful about keeping
its packages up-to-date.  I loathe both, and I've been giving
considerable thought as of late to simply running all my development
out of an Ubuntu image under VMware Fusion.  :-/

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Fri May 16 20:42:57 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:42:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90805161036x162ec53em4c0d425d63e808ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf0b20a90805161036x162ec53em4c0d425d63e808ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07268503-0B5B-4336-A1D7-D713454AAB73@gmail.com>

On May 16, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Tom Tobin wrote:
>
> its packages up-to-date.  I loathe both, and I've been giving
> considerable thought as of late to simply running all my development
> out of an Ubuntu image under VMware Fusion.  :-/
>

That's my history as well, I've never liked Fink nor Ports, but really  
miss apt.  I was using Ubuntu for the past several months, but then we  
just upgraded off of Dell's to fancy new macbook pro's, which is  
great, but I really do miss apt.  Everything else about the move is  
fine, except for apt.

I was hoping that MacPorts had matured Python-wise, but it sounds like  
a bit of a hassle.  I'll use MacPorts for libraries and such, but  
stick with easy_install and Leopard Python for my main line of  
development.

Thanks for the input all...

Chris


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri May 16 21:36:50 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 14:36:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Anyone using MacPorts Python exclusively?
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3096c19d0805160928g72fc772cje0716f1cc633d25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805161236w27d44959j7215b7638f5f6d85@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Macports (macports.org, formerly darwinports) seems to have come a
> long way since I last looked at it.  It still seems like a little bit
> of a all or nothing approach.  Anyone using the MacPorts Python
> exclusively?  I'm on Leopard nowadays, and am liking their version of
> 2.5, but I like that I can get a bunch of difficult to compile modules
> (I'm looking at you lxml) via MacPorts easily.  The only off-putting
> bit is that you really have to go all in.
>
> Anyone all in?  Anyone want to hold my hand and tell me it will be alright?

Unfortunately, it's all or nothing.  You have to pick.  If you want my
opinion: pick the python.org Framework over macports.

To elaborate, if you install with the Framework installer and think to
yourself, hey, macports will build this c python module for me and you
install it via ports then ports fails to recognize that you've
*already* installed python so it builds a new one.  This will pretty
much render your newly built module unusable unless you ditch the
Framework in favor of macports.  This, to me, is a huge loss compared
to the minor gain of conveniently running "python setup.py install"
for you after installing all dependencies.  I used purely macports
python for a while and had so many little problems with it that I now
do what Cosmin does, I build any dependency I need *with* macports and
then easy_install the python c module linking to the new libs and
voila.

Keep in mind that the python.org Framework installer used to really
suck but as of 2.5 it is solid.  macports python has come a long way
but I think the python.org Framework installer has made greater
strides.


btw, for mac users, I just spent a long time figuring out a patch to
lxml 2.0 so that it worked right on Mac OS X Leopard.  Phew.  Patch
will be in 2.0.6, but until then you need...

port install libxml2 libxslt
export PATH=/opt/local/bin:$PATH
export CFLAGS='-flat_namespace'
sudo easy_install http://codespeak.net/lxml/lxml-2.0.5.tgz

...to get it working.  Details:
http://codespeak.net/pipermail/lxml-dev/2008-May/thread.html#3632

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun May 18 20:44:59 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:44:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
Message-ID: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>

does anybody know why the following code does not work?

     from cPickle import *

     class S(dict):
         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
     class A(S):
        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
        def __getstate__(self): return {}

     a=A()
     x=dumps(a)

I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__  
is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not  
undretansd how pickling under inheritance.

Massimo

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun May 18 20:58:03 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:58:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>

Odd... this works instead...

from cPickle import *
import copy_reg

class S(dict):
     def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
     def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value

class A(S):
     def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
     #def __getstate__(self): return {}

def unserialize_A(d):
     return A()

def serialize_A(o):
     return unserialize_A, ({},)

copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)

a=A()
print a.i(3)
x=dumps(a)
b=loads(x)
print b.i(4)

I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have  
inheritance.


On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

> does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>
>      from cPickle import *
>
>      class S(dict):
>          def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>      class A(S):
>         def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>         def __getstate__(self): return {}
>
>      a=A()
>      x=dumps(a)
>
> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__
> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not
> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From varmaa at gmail.com  Sun May 18 21:06:21 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:06:21 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
	<A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>

I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue is inheritance--I think it's
actually because you're subclassing a built-in type, which requires doing
some special stuff with pickle (namely, registering with copy_reg as you've
done in your last email).

If you use pickle instead of cPickle, you get a more informative traceback;
take a look at pickle.Pickler and notice how the dispatch table, which
appears to map types to serialization functions, maps the dictionary type to
Pickler.save_dict().  I think that has something to do with it.

Hope that helps...  I have to run so I can't look into this more right now,
but let me know if you'd like me to.

- Atul

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu>
wrote:

> Odd... this works instead...
>
> from cPickle import *
> import copy_reg
>
> class S(dict):
>    def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
>    def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>
> class A(S):
>    def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>    #def __getstate__(self): return {}
>
> def unserialize_A(d):
>    return A()
>
> def serialize_A(o):
>    return unserialize_A, ({},)
>
> copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)
>
> a=A()
> print a.i(3)
> x=dumps(a)
> b=loads(x)
> print b.i(4)
>
> I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have
> inheritance.
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
>  does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>>
>>     from cPickle import *
>>
>>     class S(dict):
>>         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>     class A(S):
>>        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>        def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>
>>     a=A()
>>     x=dumps(a)
>>
>> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__
>> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not
>> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>>
>> Massimo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080518/dc964024/attachment.htm>

From varmaa at gmail.com  Sun May 18 21:07:36 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:07:36 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
	<A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
	<361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370805181207p40d24504hbde1b3d4cb7c6fda@mail.gmail.com>

Let me rephrase the first sentence of my last post: I don't think the issue
is inheritance of just *any* class, but specifically inheritance of built-in
types. :)

- Atul

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:

> I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue is inheritance--I think it's
> actually because you're subclassing a built-in type, which requires doing
> some special stuff with pickle (namely, registering with copy_reg as you've
> done in your last email).
>
> If you use pickle instead of cPickle, you get a more informative traceback;
> take a look at pickle.Pickler and notice how the dispatch table, which
> appears to map types to serialization functions, maps the dictionary type to
> Pickler.save_dict().  I think that has something to do with it.
>
> Hope that helps...  I have to run so I can't look into this more right now,
> but let me know if you'd like me to.
>
> - Atul
>
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Massimo Di Pierro <
> mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
>> Odd... this works instead...
>>
>> from cPickle import *
>> import copy_reg
>>
>> class S(dict):
>>    def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
>>    def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>
>> class A(S):
>>    def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>    #def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>
>> def unserialize_A(d):
>>    return A()
>>
>> def serialize_A(o):
>>    return unserialize_A, ({},)
>>
>> copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)
>>
>> a=A()
>> print a.i(3)
>> x=dumps(a)
>> b=loads(x)
>> print b.i(4)
>>
>> I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have
>> inheritance.
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>
>>  does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>>>
>>>     from cPickle import *
>>>
>>>     class S(dict):
>>>         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>>     class A(S):
>>>        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>>        def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>>
>>>     a=A()
>>>     x=dumps(a)
>>>
>>> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__
>>> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not
>>> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>>>
>>> Massimo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080518/b9853e4d/attachment.htm>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun May 18 21:15:39 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 14:15:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <361b27370805181207p40d24504hbde1b3d4cb7c6fda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
	<A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
	<361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370805181207p40d24504hbde1b3d4cb7c6fda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F41C62AF-17C6-4405-A987-E4A2D237F434@cs.depaul.edu>

The fact is that I can use copy_reg for the class S and does not fix  
the problem. I can only fix the problem using copy_reg on the class A  
but only this simple toy example. I am still running into problems  
into more complex example although this should be straightforward. I  
guess the question is

why does __getstate__ behaves differently depending on the super  
classes but the super.__getstate__ is not called?

Massimo


On May 18, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Atul Varma wrote:

> Let me rephrase the first sentence of my last post: I don't think  
> the issue is inheritance of just *any* class, but specifically  
> inheritance of built-in types. :)
>
> - Atul
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue is inheritance--I  
> think it's actually because you're subclassing a built-in type,  
> which requires doing some special stuff with pickle (namely,  
> registering with copy_reg as you've done in your last email).
>
> If you use pickle instead of cPickle, you get a more informative  
> traceback; take a look at pickle.Pickler and notice how the  
> dispatch table, which appears to map types to serialization  
> functions, maps the dictionary type to Pickler.save_dict().  I  
> think that has something to do with it.
>
> Hope that helps...  I have to run so I can't look into this more  
> right now, but let me know if you'd like me to.
>
> - Atul
>
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Massimo Di Pierro  
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> Odd... this works instead...
>
> from cPickle import *
> import copy_reg
>
> class S(dict):
>    def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
>
>    def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>
> class A(S):
>    def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>    #def __getstate__(self): return {}
>
> def unserialize_A(d):
>    return A()
>
> def serialize_A(o):
>    return unserialize_A, ({},)
>
> copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)
>
> a=A()
> print a.i(3)
> x=dumps(a)
> b=loads(x)
> print b.i(4)
>
> I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have  
> inheritance.
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>
>     from cPickle import *
>
>     class S(dict):
>         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>     class A(S):
>        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>        def __getstate__(self): return {}
>
>     a=A()
>     x=dumps(a)
>
> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__
> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not
> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>
> Massimo
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> <ATT00001.txt>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080518/30ed00ef/attachment-0001.htm>

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Mon May 19 06:41:05 2008
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:41:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <F41C62AF-17C6-4405-A987-E4A2D237F434@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
	<A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
	<361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370805181207p40d24504hbde1b3d4cb7c6fda@mail.gmail.com>
	<F41C62AF-17C6-4405-A987-E4A2D237F434@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <b571660a0805182141u4d9a5c82qcee76fdbce801d4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> The fact is that I can use copy_reg for the class S and does not fix the
> problem. I can only fix the problem using copy_reg on the class A but only
> this simple toy example. I am still running into problems into more complex
> example although this should be straightforward. I guess the question is
> why does __getstate__ behaves differently depending on the super classes but
> the super.__getstate__ is not called?

attributes prefixed with double underscores have different scoping
rules in Python, they are essentially "private."  This *might* be the
source of confusion around __getstate__ although admittedly I haven't
spent time to completely understand the issue.

http://diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/private_functions.html

> Massimo
>
>
> On May 18, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Atul Varma wrote:
>
> Let me rephrase the first sentence of my last post: I don't think the issue
> is inheritance of just *any* class, but specifically inheritance of built-in
> types. :)
>
> - Atul
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue is inheritance--I think it's
>> actually because you're subclassing a built-in type, which requires doing
>> some special stuff with pickle (namely, registering with copy_reg as you've
>> done in your last email).
>>
>> If you use pickle instead of cPickle, you get a more informative
>> traceback; take a look at pickle.Pickler and notice how the dispatch table,
>> which appears to map types to serialization functions, maps the dictionary
>> type to Pickler.save_dict().  I think that has something to do with it.
>>
>> Hope that helps...  I have to run so I can't look into this more right
>> now, but let me know if you'd like me to.
>>
>> - Atul
>>
>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Odd... this works instead...
>>>
>>> from cPickle import *
>>> import copy_reg
>>>
>>> class S(dict):
>>>    def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
>>>    def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>>
>>> class A(S):
>>>    def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>>    #def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>>
>>> def unserialize_A(d):
>>>    return A()
>>>
>>> def serialize_A(o):
>>>    return unserialize_A, ({},)
>>>
>>> copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)
>>>
>>> a=A()
>>> print a.i(3)
>>> x=dumps(a)
>>> b=loads(x)
>>> print b.i(4)
>>>
>>> I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have
>>> inheritance.
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>>
>>>> does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>>>>
>>>>     from cPickle import *
>>>>
>>>>     class S(dict):
>>>>         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>>>     class A(S):
>>>>        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>>>        def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>>>
>>>>     a=A()
>>>>     x=dumps(a)
>>>>
>>>> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but __getstate__
>>>> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I do not
>>>> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>>>>
>>>> Massimo
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> <ATT00001.txt>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Mon May 19 06:50:33 2008
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:50:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] problem with __getstate__
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0805182141u4d9a5c82qcee76fdbce801d4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC0DE3D9-2966-4763-9F13-5FE2AAA2BC28@cs.depaul.edu>
	<A74ED17B-C1D8-4869-BB78-AF214E7D3F71@cs.depaul.edu>
	<361b27370805181206r72ecd814sf426a0289e8ca964@mail.gmail.com>
	<361b27370805181207p40d24504hbde1b3d4cb7c6fda@mail.gmail.com>
	<F41C62AF-17C6-4405-A987-E4A2D237F434@cs.depaul.edu>
	<b571660a0805182141u4d9a5c82qcee76fdbce801d4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB8F2D14-F297-4E5B-BC02-67D52BA3FE6E@cs.depaul.edu>

__getstate__ is a reserved method and, according to the docs, if a  
try to pickle an object that has a __getstate__ method, if you should  
pickle the output of __getstate__  as a representation of the object.  
It works in general but not with my example. I was able to pickle my  
special object using the copy_ref modules instead.

This came up because I am working on a new web2py feature (now  
experimental in trunk). I can pickle db objects (representing a  
connection and tables defined in the scope) that re-connects when I  
unpickle it. This allows me to create complex stateful objects that  
have a db connection and can be stored in a session and passed around  
(via xmlrpc for example). I am not sure yet if it is a good idea but  
I thought it was cool.

Massimo




On May 18, 2008, at 11:41 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>> The fact is that I can use copy_reg for the class S and does not  
>> fix the
>> problem. I can only fix the problem using copy_reg on the class A  
>> but only
>> this simple toy example. I am still running into problems into  
>> more complex
>> example although this should be straightforward. I guess the  
>> question is
>> why does __getstate__ behaves differently depending on the super  
>> classes but
>> the super.__getstate__ is not called?
>
> attributes prefixed with double underscores have different scoping
> rules in Python, they are essentially "private."  This *might* be the
> source of confusion around __getstate__ although admittedly I haven't
> spent time to completely understand the issue.
>
> http://diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/ 
> private_functions.html
>
>> Massimo
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Atul Varma wrote:
>>
>> Let me rephrase the first sentence of my last post: I don't think  
>> the issue
>> is inheritance of just *any* class, but specifically inheritance  
>> of built-in
>> types. :)
>>
>> - Atul
>>
>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Atul Varma <varmaa at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue is inheritance--I  
>>> think it's
>>> actually because you're subclassing a built-in type, which  
>>> requires doing
>>> some special stuff with pickle (namely, registering with copy_reg  
>>> as you've
>>> done in your last email).
>>>
>>> If you use pickle instead of cPickle, you get a more informative
>>> traceback; take a look at pickle.Pickler and notice how the  
>>> dispatch table,
>>> which appears to map types to serialization functions, maps the  
>>> dictionary
>>> type to Pickler.save_dict().  I think that has something to do  
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps...  I have to run so I can't look into this more  
>>> right
>>> now, but let me know if you'd like me to.
>>>
>>> - Atul
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Massimo Di Pierro
>>> <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Odd... this works instead...
>>>>
>>>> from cPickle import *
>>>> import copy_reg
>>>>
>>>> class S(dict):
>>>>    def __getattr__(self,key): return self[key]
>>>>    def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>>>
>>>> class A(S):
>>>>    def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>>>    #def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>>>
>>>> def unserialize_A(d):
>>>>    return A()
>>>>
>>>> def serialize_A(o):
>>>>    return unserialize_A, ({},)
>>>>
>>>> copy_reg.pickle(A, serialize_A)
>>>>
>>>> a=A()
>>>> print a.i(3)
>>>> x=dumps(a)
>>>> b=loads(x)
>>>> print b.i(4)
>>>>
>>>> I guess the rule is use copy_reg and not __getstate__ if you have
>>>> inheritance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 18, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> does anybody know why the following code does not work?
>>>>>
>>>>>     from cPickle import *
>>>>>
>>>>>     class S(dict):
>>>>>         def __setattr__(self, key, value): self[key]=value
>>>>>     class A(S):
>>>>>        def __init__(self): self.i=lambda u: u
>>>>>        def __getstate__(self): return {}
>>>>>
>>>>>     a=A()
>>>>>     x=dumps(a)
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that self.i is a lambda and thus not pickable but  
>>>>> __getstate__
>>>>> is called (I checked) and thus it should not matter. I guess I  
>>>>> do not
>>>>> undretansd how pickling under inheritance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Massimo
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>> <ATT00001.txt>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From carl at personnelware.com  Mon May 19 18:53:05 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:53:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
Message-ID: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>

"""
Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for members
of Python user groups.

To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site 
(http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already free). 
When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to identify the 
account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me a list of 
the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the subscriptions.
"""

Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.

Carl K

From cbc at unc.edu  Mon May 19 21:54:31 2008
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:54:31 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Python and Plone Boot Camps in Chapel Hill, NC
Message-ID: <4831DAF7.9040103@unc.edu>

Triangle (NC) Zope and Python Users Group (TriZPUG) is proud to open 
registration for our fourth annual ultra-low cost Plone and Python 
training camps, BootCampArama 2008:

http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/2008/

Registration is now open for:

PyCamp: Python Boot Camp, August 4 - 8

Plone Boot Camp: Customizing Plone, July 28 - August 1

Advanced Plone Boot Camp: Plone 3 Techniques, August 4 - 8

All of these take place on the campus of the University of North 
Carolina at Chapel Hill in state of the art high tech classrooms, with 
free mass transit, low-cost accommodations with free wireless, and 
convenient dining options.

Plone Boot Camp is taught by Joel Burton, twice chair of the Plone 
Foundation. Joel has logged more the 200 days at the head of Plone 
classrooms on four continents. See plonebootcamps.com for dozens of 
testimonials from Joel's students.

PyCamp is taught by Chris Calloway, facilitator for TriZPUG and 
application analyst for the Southeast Coastal Ocean Observing System. 
Chris has developed PyCamp for over 1500 hours on behalf of Python user 
groups. Early bird registration runs through June 30. So register today!

PyCamp is TriZPUG's Python Boot Camp, which takes a programmer familiar 
with basic programming concepts to the status of Python developer with 
one week of training. If you have previous scripting or programming 
experience and want to step into Python programming as quickly and 
painlessly as possible, this boot camp is for you. PyCamp is also the 
perfect follow-on to Plone Boot Camp: Customizing Plone the previous week.

At Plone Boot Camp: Customizing Plone you will learn the essentials you 
need to build your Plone site and deploy it. This course is the most 
popular in the Plone world--for a good reason: it teaches you practical 
skills in a friendly, hands-on format. This bootcamp is aimed at:
     * people with HTML or web design experience
     * people with some or no Python experience
     * people with some or no Zope/Plone experience
It covers using Plone, customizing, and deploying Plone sites.

At Advanced Plone Boot Camp: Plone 3 Techniques you will learn to build 
a site using the best practices of Plone 3 as well as advance your 
skills in scripting and developing for Plone. The course covers the new 
technologies in Plone 3.0 and 3.1 intended for site integrators and 
developers: our new portlet infrastructure, viewlets, versioning, and a 
friendly introduction to Zope 3 component architecture. Now, updated for 
Plone 3.1! The course is intended for people who have experience with 
the basics of Plone site development and HTML/CSS. It will cover what 
you need to know to take advantage of these new technologies in Plone 3.

For more information contact: info at trizpug.org


From john at mail.npxdesigns.com  Mon May 19 22:14:22 2008
From: john at mail.npxdesigns.com (John Jacobsen)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:14:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <5A88CCCE-4352-4692-981E-C727D6A369F3@mail.npxdesigns.com>

Hi Carl,

My email is john at mail.npxdesigns.com and I signed up with an account  
on their site - can you add my email to your list?

Thanks!
John

On May 19, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions  
> for members
> of Python user groups.
>
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web  
> site (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's  
> already free). When they register, the site will ask them for an  
> email address to identify the account.  If you (or someone you  
> appoint to organize this) sends me a list of the email addresses  
> they used, I'll make sure we enable the subscriptions.
> """
>
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

John Jacobsen
NPX Designs, Inc.

Contact info: http://www.npxdesigns.com/contact.html


From pfein at pobox.com  Mon May 19 22:19:56 2008
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 16:19:56 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <0EB6359C-618B-48E4-BFA4-EE0B880B0DE1@pobox.com>

pfein at pobox.com


On May 19, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions  
> for members
> of Python user groups.
>
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web  
> site (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's  
> already free). When they register, the site will ask them for an  
> email address to identify the account.  If you (or someone you  
> appoint to organize this) sends me a list of the email addresses  
> they used, I'll make sure we enable the subscriptions.
> """
>
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Tue May 20 06:11:06 2008
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 23:11:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <0EB6359C-618B-48E4-BFA4-EE0B880B0DE1@pobox.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
	<0EB6359C-618B-48E4-BFA4-EE0B880B0DE1@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0805192111y6d0f9162s642f98e303f63d70@mail.gmail.com>

tim.saylor at gmail.com

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> pfein at pobox.com
>
>
>
> On May 19, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>
>  """
>> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
>> members
>> of Python user groups.
>>
>> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site (
>> http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already
>> free). When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to
>> identify the account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this)
>> sends me a list of the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable
>> the subscriptions.
>> """
>>
>> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080519/82ec37fc/attachment.htm>

From mandric at gmail.com  Tue May 20 18:03:46 2008
From: mandric at gmail.com (Milan Andric)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <536089f30805200903m252a1512u43ad4861ec9e12cb@mail.gmail.com>

mandric at gmail.com

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
> members
> of Python user groups.
>
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site
> (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already free).
> When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to identify
> the account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me a
> list of the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the
> subscriptions.
> """
>
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From clint.laskowski at gmail.com  Tue May 20 03:10:10 2008
From: clint.laskowski at gmail.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:10:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <de5213a50805191810j36d414bv9a824786f4866fc4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Carl. I registered with:

clint.laskowski at gmail.com

Thanks.

-- Clint

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
wrote:

> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
> members
> of Python user groups.
>
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site (
> http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already
> free). When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to
> identify the account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this)
> sends me a list of the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable
> the subscriptions.
> """
>
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 

-- Clint

Clint Laskowski, CISSP
clint.laskowski at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080519/2d53094e/attachment.htm>

From richard.stack at sbcglobal.net  Tue May 20 18:50:58 2008
From: richard.stack at sbcglobal.net (Richard Stack)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:50:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <014001c8ba99$adebe620$09c3b260$@stack@sbcglobal.net>

rstack at acm.org

-----Original Message-----
From: chicago-bounces at python.org [mailto:chicago-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Carl Karsten
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:53 AM
To: Chicago at python.org
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs

"""
Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
members
of Python user groups.

To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site 
(http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already free).

When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to identify
the 
account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me a list
of 
the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the subscriptions.
"""

Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.

Carl K
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3250 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080520/2c3e1be5/attachment.bin>

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue May 20 21:33:48 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (chris.mcavoy at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot
	Programmers of Chicago
In-Reply-To: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

A new user group sprang up in the suburbs, and has since migrated to
the West Loop.  I'm presenting at it this Thursday, on Jython.

Chris


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Dave Hoover" <dave.hoo... at gmail.com>
Date: May 14, 1:55 pm
Subject: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot Programmers
of Chicago
To: Polyglot Programmers


Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
Eat: Pizza
Drink: Soda

Topic:
Jython Reborn.  Despite the rumors, Jython isn't dead.  Recent
investment from Sun has breathed new life into the Jython project.
We'll talk about some of the recent changes, the roadmap for the
project, and play around with the latest trunk version of Jython.

Chris McAvoy is a web developer at PSC Group LLC, and a blogger
athttp://lonelylion.com

Questions?
Contact d... at obtiva.com or post tohttp://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Tue May 20 21:38:11 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0805201238hde567c5udcd42056b2e2ca20@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a reason everyone is replying to the list?

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
> members
> of Python user groups.
>
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site
> (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already free).
> When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to identify
> the account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me a
> list of the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the
> subscriptions.
> """
>
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue May 20 22:09:56 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:09:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot
 Programmers of Chicago
In-Reply-To: <d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>

the map to the meeting points to Wheaton...

I followed this path: http://polyglotprogrammers.com/
click on  Calendar. May 22 6pm, details,
WhereObtiva Corporation, 566 West Adams, Chicago, IL
click (map), 
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Obtiva%20Corporation%2C%20566%20West%20Adams%2C%20Chicago%2C%20IL

Carl K

chris.mcavoy at gmail.com wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> A new user group sprang up in the suburbs, and has since migrated to
> the West Loop.  I'm presenting at it this Thursday, on Jython.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Dave Hoover" <dave.hoo... at gmail.com>
> Date: May 14, 1:55 pm
> Subject: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot Programmers
> of Chicago
> To: Polyglot Programmers
> 
> 
> Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
> Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
> Eat: Pizza
> Drink: Soda
> 
> Topic:
> Jython Reborn.  Despite the rumors, Jython isn't dead.  Recent
> investment from Sun has breathed new life into the Jython project.
> We'll talk about some of the recent changes, the roadmap for the
> project, and play around with the latest trunk version of Jython.
> 
> Chris McAvoy is a web developer at PSC Group LLC, and a blogger
> athttp://lonelylion.com
> 
> Questions?
> Contact d... at obtiva.com or post tohttp://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May 20 22:12:30 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 13:12:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <262779.41144.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hsu.feihong at yahoo.com

--- Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

> """
> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions
> for members
> of Python user groups.
> 
> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web
> site 
> (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's
> already free). 
> When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to
> identify the 
> account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me
> a list of 
> the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the
> subscriptions.
> """
> 
> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
> 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From carl at personnelware.com  Tue May 20 22:24:31 2008
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:24:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] 3 Python Magazine PDFs
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805201238hde567c5udcd42056b2e2ca20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4831B071.4050909@personnelware.com>
	<276266d0805201238hde567c5udcd42056b2e2ca20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4833337F.2060204@personnelware.com>

some have replied to my persona addy, so technically everyone isn't - plus there 
are those that have never even heard of this list... :)

My guess is 'hitting reply' is easiest.

Carl K

Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
> Is there a reason everyone is replying to the list?
> 
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> """
>> Python Magazine would like to offer free 3 month PDF subscriptions for
>> members
>> of Python user groups.
>>
>> To take advantage of the offer, each person should go to our web site
>> (http://www.pythonmagazine.com) and set up an account (that's already free).
>> When they register, the site will ask them for an email address to identify
>> the account.  If you (or someone you appoint to organize this) sends me a
>> list of the email addresses they used, I'll make sure we enable the
>> subscriptions.
>> """
>>
>> Sign up, send me your email, and I'll send it in.
>>
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> 
> 
> 

From dbt at meat.net  Tue May 20 22:31:57 2008
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:31:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot
	Programmers of Chicago
In-Reply-To: <48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>
References: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <20080520203157.GC27475@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

That's just google search run amok.  Google maps links with a name
and an address should be formatted: Address, City ST (Location Name).

See: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=566+West+Adams,+Chicago,+IL+(Obtiva+Corporation)

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 03:09:56PM -0500, Carl Karsten wrote:
> the map to the meeting points to Wheaton...
> 
> I followed this path: http://polyglotprogrammers.com/
> click on  Calendar. May 22 6pm, details,
> WhereObtiva Corporation, 566 West Adams, Chicago, IL
> click (map), 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Obtiva%20Corporation%2C%20566%20West%20Adams%2C%20Chicago%2C%20IL
> 
> Carl K
> 
> chris.mcavoy at gmail.com wrote:
> >Hey all,
> >
> >A new user group sprang up in the suburbs, and has since migrated to
> >the West Loop.  I'm presenting at it this Thursday, on Jython.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: "Dave Hoover" <dave.hoo... at gmail.com>
> >Date: May 14, 1:55 pm
> >Subject: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot Programmers
> >of Chicago
> >To: Polyglot Programmers
> >
> >
> >Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
> >Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
> >Eat: Pizza
> >Drink: Soda
> >
> >Topic:
> >Jython Reborn.  Despite the rumors, Jython isn't dead.  Recent
> >investment from Sun has breathed new life into the Jython project.
> >We'll talk about some of the recent changes, the roadmap for the
> >project, and play around with the latest trunk version of Jython.
> >
> >Chris McAvoy is a web developer at PSC Group LLC, and a blogger
> >athttp://lonelylion.com
> >
> >Questions?
> >Contact d... at obtiva.com or post 
> >tohttp://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers
> >_______________________________________________
> >Chicago mailing list
> >Chicago at python.org
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From skip at pobox.com  Tue May 20 22:35:21 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:35:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at Polyglot
 Programmers of Chicago
In-Reply-To: <48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>
References: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <18483.13833.402222.529803@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Carl> the map to the meeting points to Wheaton...

Wheaton's in the West Loop isn't it? ;-)

Skip



From maney at two14.net  Wed May 21 04:57:44 2008
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:57:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Chris McAvoy presents Jython Reborn at
	Polyglot	Programmers of Chicago
In-Reply-To: <18483.13833.402222.529803@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
References: <11c8704e0805141155y794cc24fr8302151917d708f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d2a19770-8384-4a45-860a-7b4922f3f109@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<48333014.1030309@personnelware.com>
	<18483.13833.402222.529803@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>
Message-ID: <20080521025744.GA325@furrr.two14.net>

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 03:35:21PM -0500, skip at pobox.com wrote:
> 
>     Carl> the map to the meeting points to Wheaton...
> 
> Wheaton's in the West Loop isn't it? ;-)

As a matter of fact, we *do* have both an East Loop Road and a West
Loop Road... or something close to that.  As a native of these parts, I
know where they are and so don't pay much attention to the exact names. :)

-- 
Self-pity can make one weep, as can onions.  -- Fodor


From shekay at pobox.com  Wed May 21 13:35:16 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 06:35:16 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] webservice please?
Message-ID: <a68ced640805210435m315e13bev4cbe3c17417bec63@mail.gmail.com>

:)

quoting
http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ss06r/GeoHashing/geohashing.py

see
http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Talk:Main_Page


-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed May 21 13:48:08 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 06:48:08 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] webservice please?
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640805210435m315e13bev4cbe3c17417bec63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640805210435m315e13bev4cbe3c17417bec63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805210448v48916956xa8d6ce71df99c78d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 6:35 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> :)
>
> quoting
> http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ss06r/GeoHashing/geohashing.py
>
> see
> http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Talk:Main_Page

oh wait, I am so behind the curve I cry.

http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/05/20/gps-cyborg-implant/



-- 
sheila

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed May 21 14:10:23 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 07:10:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting
	(was Chris McAvoy presents...)
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>

Just a heads up, there's been a change of speakers at the Polyglot  
meeting this Thursday.  I had to bail out.  Still go...just no need to  
bring those "McAvoy Rocks!" banners anymore.

Chris

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Dave Hoover" <dave.hoover at gmail.com>
> Date: May 20, 2008 9:36:23 PM CDT
> To: polyglot-programmers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting (was Chris  
> McAvoy presents...)
> Reply-To: polyglot-programmers at googlegroups.com
>
>
> Chris McAvoy needed to switch his Jython talk to next month and Dean
> Wampler has graciously stepped in at the last minute to give the talk
> he had planned to give next month.  Dean gave this talk at SD West in
> March.  Here is the update...
>
> Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
> Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
> Eat: Pizza
> Drink: Soda
>
> Title: Polyglot and Poly-paradigm Programming (for the Persnickety)
>
> Here is the description from the SD West web site...
>
> Is one language and one "paradigm" right for your entire application?
> Probably not. This class shows how combining several well-chosen
> programming languages and modularity paradigms (object-oriented,
> aspect-oriented, functional, etc.) can improve your applications and
> productivity. You're probably already using
> Java/C#/C++/XML/HTML/Javascript, plus SQL, plus ant/maven/make and
> assorted scripts. This class goes to the next level of integration,
> where "components + scripts = applications". That is, designs that
> integrate higher-level "policy" code, written in high-productivity
> languages (Ruby, Python, etc.), with lower-level components, written
> for performance or to bridge to third-party and legacy components
> (C/C++, Java, etc.). We'll discuss classic, prototypical examples like
> Emacs (C plus elisp) and more modern examples that pair Ruby with C
> and Java in various ways. We'll also discuss how growing issues like
> concurrency are driving resurgent interest in functional languages and
> how "cross-cutting concerns" led to aspect-oriented programming.
> Finally, we'll consider whether or not domain-specific languages
> (DSLs) are the "ultimate" scripting language.
>
> And Dean's bio from the SD West web site...
>
> Dean Wampler is a Consultant and Mentor with Object Mentor, Inc.
> (http://www.objectmentor.com), where he provides teaching and
> mentoring services to clients in agile methods, good software design
> principles, Ruby, and Java. Dean is actively involved in the
> Aspect-Oriented Software Development (AOSD) community and he is an
> expert on Ruby, Ruby on Rails, and Enterprise Java. He speaks on these
> and other topics at industry and research conferences worldwide. Dean
> is the author of several open-source projects, including Aquarium, an
> AOP library for Ruby (http://aquarium.rubyforge.org), and Contract4J,
> a design by contract library for Java (http://www.contract4j.org).
> Dean contributed the Systems chapter to Robert Martin's
> recently-published book entitled Clean Code.
> http://www.objectmentor.com
>
>
> Questions?
> Contact dave at obtiva.com or post to
> http://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers or visit
> http://polyglotprogrammers.com
>
> Spread the word!
> --Dave
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> Groups "Polyglot Programmers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to polyglot-programmers at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to polyglot-programmers-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080521/16328666/attachment.htm>

From rcriii at ramsdells.net  Wed May 21 17:08:48 2008
From: rcriii at ramsdells.net (rcriii at ramsdells.net)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:08:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting
 (was Chris McAvoy presents...)
In-Reply-To: <10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>

> Just a heads up, there's been a change of speakers at the Polyglot
> meeting this Thursday.  I had to bail out.  Still go...just no need to
> bring those "McAvoy Rocks!" banners anymore.
>
> Chris
>

That's good, 'cause I couldn't decide if you are limestone or granite.

Robert


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Wed May 21 17:36:51 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:36:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting
	(was Chris McAvoy presents...)
In-Reply-To: <9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>
	<9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0805210836p16ae9863q9a0f54861131cad5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:08 AM,  <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:
>> Just a heads up, there's been a change of speakers at the Polyglot
>> meeting this Thursday.  I had to bail out.  Still go...just no need to
>> bring those "McAvoy Rocks!" banners anymore.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> That's good, 'cause I couldn't decide if you are limestone or granite.

Limestone.  I go good in Mexican beer.

Chris

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed May 21 18:05:19 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:05:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting
	(was Chris McAvoy presents...)
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805210836p16ae9863q9a0f54861131cad5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>
	<9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>
	<3096c19d0805210836p16ae9863q9a0f54861131cad5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805210905qfafbc1cwe383c157db86aa63@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:08 AM,  <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:
>>> Just a heads up, there's been a change of speakers at the Polyglot
>>> meeting this Thursday.  I had to bail out.  Still go...just no need to
>>> bring those "McAvoy Rocks!" banners anymore.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>> That's good, 'cause I couldn't decide if you are limestone or granite.
>
> Limestone.  I go good in Mexican beer.

goes well with carbonated life forms


-- 
sheila

From fred at polgardy.com  Wed May 21 18:14:24 2008
From: fred at polgardy.com (Frederick Polgardy)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:14:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting
	(was Chris McAvoy presents...)
In-Reply-To: <9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<10217934-DD28-40AB-B89E-4B1D2A29581A@gmail.com>
	<9512.12.158.28.4.1211382528.squirrel@canton.npsis.com>
Message-ID: <253b55880805210914xa197d71y6e11c05aa87c775a@mail.gmail.com>

Huh, I always took you for granite.

-Fred

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:08 AM, <rcriii at ramsdells.net> wrote:

> > Just a heads up, there's been a change of speakers at the Polyglot
> > meeting this Thursday.  I had to bail out.  Still go...just no need to
> > bring those "McAvoy Rocks!" banners anymore.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> That's good, 'cause I couldn't decide if you are limestone or granite.
>
> Robert


-- 
Science answers questions; philosophy questions answers.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080521/25369dc4/attachment-0001.htm>

From blwoodruff at gmail.com  Wed May 21 21:58:43 2008
From: blwoodruff at gmail.com (Brent Woodruff)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:58:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Direct PERM Python Developer position for you in downtown
	Chicago
Message-ID: <6504ee2b0805211258v1e34cb1dm8f04eae03930a499@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello Chicago Python Users Group:

 I have a direct PERM Python Developer opportunity.  This position is
located in downtown Chicago near both Union and Ogilvie Train Stations.
This client is one of the more innovative companies in downtown Chicago.

Here is the job description:
 ------------------------------
 *Title:*  Python Developer - *Direct PERM*

*RESPONSIBILITIES:*
? Developer Python web-based applications
? Develop test framework for testing a distributed services layer to ensure
functionality and stability (Java, HTTPUnit and/or JUnit)
? Develop and execute test suites utilizing said framework
? Gather and define requirements for building third party simulator(s) as
well as intermediary steps to get there
? Analyze and troubleshoot issues and tests
? Develop effective and efficient automation test strategies
? Participation in developing formal automation testing strategy and plan
? Defect management
? Providing recommendations / suggestions for improving automated testing
efficiency
? Manage and mentor others on framework and test practices

*QUALIFICATIONS: *
? Hands-on experience designing & developing Java applications
? Experience with Python or Ruby
? Travel industry and/or web experience a plus.
? Rails or Django a plus
? XML, JSON

*EDUCATION:*
? BS, CS or relevant, related experience.
------------------------------
If you are interested in hearing more about this opportunity, please contact
me ASAP and send me your updated resume.

 Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,


*Brent Woodruff*

*Professional Recruiter
*



Apex Systems, Inc.
161 N. Clark St.
Suite 3550

Chicago, IL  60601

Office:  (312) 212-5673

Toll Free:  (866) 485-2739

Fax:  (312) 212-5674

bwoodruff at apexsystemsinc.com

www.apexsystemsinc.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080521/e0eb40ef/attachment.htm>

From groglogic at gmail.com  Thu May 22 23:04:21 2008
From: groglogic at gmail.com (Mike Kramlich)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:04:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Direct PERM Python Dev job
Message-ID: <C167405D-7F7D-4E9C-9D8C-82E4D510559C@gmail.com>

that strongly sounds like Orbitz.
If it is, then the wording is a little weird because I believe they  
already have a python/jython test framework that does what they  
describe, in which case they only need a maintainer not someone to  
write a totally new framework. I won't ask the recruiter to confirm my  
guess because I know they like to keep it secret.

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games

From Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com  Fri May 23 00:08:35 2008
From: Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com (Marty.Murphy at na.manpower.com)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:08:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of the office
Message-ID: <OF735C24B1.A7A00D6A-ON86257451.0079A2B2-86257451.0079A2B3@na.manpower.com>


I will be out of the office starting  05/22/2008 and will not return until
05/29/2008.

I will be accessing my email daily.  Please contact John Large if you need
immediate assistance - 312-263-3907 xt 14.  Thank you!


________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail and its attachments may contain Manpower Inc. proprietary information, which is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, or subject to COPYRIGHT belonging to Manpower Inc.  This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is STRICTLY PROHIBITED and may be UNLAWFUL.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.  Thank you.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri May 23 15:20:58 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:20:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Direct PERM Python Dev job
In-Reply-To: <C167405D-7F7D-4E9C-9D8C-82E4D510559C@gmail.com>
References: <C167405D-7F7D-4E9C-9D8C-82E4D510559C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805230620n58f9b848yb3f326ef5ddab4bf@mail.gmail.com>

I can ask someone how much maintenance vs development the job would
be. I know next week we are having a sprint to add new functionality.
I'm not in the group but being pulled in for the sprint.

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Mike Kramlich <groglogic at gmail.com> wrote:
> that strongly sounds like Orbitz.
> If it is, then the wording is a little weird because I believe they already
> have a python/jython test framework that does what they describe, in which
> case they only need a maintainer not someone to write a totally new
> framework. I won't ask the recruiter to confirm my guess because I know they
> like to keep it secret.
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Sun May 25 07:13:45 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 22:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
Message-ID: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
it.

I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?

Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.

Cheers,
Feihong




      

From cstejerean at gmail.com  Sun May 25 08:56:20 2008
From: cstejerean at gmail.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 01:56:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> it.

If you like Vi key bindings but decide to go with Emacs you might be
interested in Viper mode which does a pretty good job at emulating Vim
keys in Emacs.

>
> I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
>

The impression I've got is that Emacs is more extensible than Vim due
to the way it was designed. Vim experts on the list, please step in
and correct me if I'm wrong. In the mean time take a look at the first
part of this thread
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/83976 it
seems I'm not the only thinking this way.

For example adding a hook for whenever a buffer is saved is trivial in
Emacs. Take a look at an example (coincidentally involving Pymacs) at
http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/pymacs.html#auto-reloading-on-save

While Emacs itself is very extensible it's possible you'll run into
limitations of Pymacs depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
Take a look at http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/TODO for an idea.

> Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.

If extensibility is your primary concern I would highly recommend
Emacs, although I would also recommend getting comfortable with Emacs
Lisp at least to work around whatever you can't accomplish with
Pymacs.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://blog.offbytwo.com

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Sun May 25 15:56:10 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 06:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ironically, I read this shortly after posting my question:

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/04/xemacs-is-dead-long-live-xemacs.html

Although Steve Yegge isn't really comparing vim to Emacs, he does
convince me that Emacs is extensible enough for my needs. 

However I still don't know about vim. But for those of you who
haven't tried it, I think the Python integration in vim is pretty
slick. The plain vanilla vim binary didn't have Python, but after I
installed Cream it Just Worked (Cream is a user-friendlier version of
vim with a gtk frontend). Maybe it's not very powerful, but the API
is very easy to work with and can probably solve 80% of my scripting
needs. Since it just uses your default Python, you can import any
modules you want, like lxml, Tkinter, etc. But at least in the vim
module available to Python, I didn't see any way to use vim's dialogs
or to hook into events/signals. Don't know if this is also a
limitation in vim's built-in scripting language.

I will probably try out Emacs now in the spirit of learning new
stuff.

--- Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu
> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used
> to
> > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high
> school.
> > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly
> extensible,
> > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins
> for
> > it.
> 
> If you like Vi key bindings but decide to go with Emacs you might
> be
> interested in Viper mode which does a pretty good job at emulating
> Vim
> keys in Emacs.
> 
> >
> > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get
> the
> > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events,
> e.g.
> > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim.
> But
> > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more
> extensible
> > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
> >
> 
> The impression I've got is that Emacs is more extensible than Vim
> due
> to the way it was designed. Vim experts on the list, please step in
> and correct me if I'm wrong. In the mean time take a look at the
> first
> part of this thread
> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/83976
> it
> seems I'm not the only thinking this way.
> 
> For example adding a hook for whenever a buffer is saved is trivial
> in
> Emacs. Take a look at an example (coincidentally involving Pymacs)
> at
> http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/pymacs.html#auto-reloading-on-save
> 
> While Emacs itself is very extensible it's possible you'll run into
> limitations of Pymacs depending on what you're trying to
> accomplish.
> Take a look at http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/TODO for an idea.
> 
> > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are
> I've
> > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason.
> Right
> > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the
> one
> > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
> 
> If extensibility is your primary concern I would highly recommend
> Emacs, although I would also recommend getting comfortable with
> Emacs
> Lisp at least to work around whatever you can't accomplish with
> Pymacs.
> 
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From skip at pobox.com  Sun May 25 16:52:48 2008
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:52:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
	<556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <18489.32064.284783.671689@montanaro-dyndns-org.local>


    Feihong> Although Steve Yegge isn't really comparing vim to Emacs, he
    Feihong> does convince me that Emacs is extensible enough for my needs.

It's never been a question of whether Emacs is extensible enough.  It's
really a question of whether or not you can juggle that many sharp knives at
once. ;-) From an extensibility standpoint only stuff that needs to be in C
is written in (Emacs' own peculiar dialect of) C.  Everything else is
written in Emacs Lisp.

Skip

From groglogic at gmail.com  Sun May 25 21:46:34 2008
From: groglogic at gmail.com (Mike Kramlich)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 14:46:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
Message-ID: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to  
the chase. ;)

Mike Kramlich
ZodLogic Games

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Sun May 25 22:41:57 2008
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 15:41:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <181814CE-44DC-43F3-9AD6-C61ED680CB2F@gmail.com>

HE HE ;-)
Yes, vi vs. emacs can become an endless heated debate is some nerdy  
groups.
*** but this group is not like that ***
That's why every ChiPy meeting is "our best ever", and whenever new  
people show up, they keep coming back.
(well -- until they move out of state ;-)
-Rob

On May 25, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:

> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to  
> the chase. ;)
>
> Mike Kramlich
> ZodLogic Games
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From jason at hostedlabs.com  Mon May 26 00:52:27 2008
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 17:52:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <181814CE-44DC-43F3-9AD6-C61ED680CB2F@gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
	<181814CE-44DC-43F3-9AD6-C61ED680CB2F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4839EDAB.6090204@hostedlabs.com>

to quote the age old saying, "emacs is a great operating system, its a 
terrible editor though.."

I can't say that I've really used emacs but for a brief trial run in 98, 
but I have heard nothing about it that doesn't always circle back to how 
extensible it is.

The question I think, is how extensible do you need and is doing that in 
vim easier or haredr than re-learning a new way of working?

I would probably spend some cycles thinking about what you would 
actually need and seeing how hard that would be to implement in vim then 
comparing that with loss of efficiency in changing editor worlds.

will send some examples shortly..

Rob Kapteyn wrote:
> HE HE ;-)
> Yes, vi vs. emacs can become an endless heated debate is some nerdy groups.
> *** but this group is not like that ***
> That's why every ChiPy meeting is "our best ever", and whenever new 
> people show up, they keep coming back.
> (well -- until they move out of state ;-)
> -Rob
> 
> On May 25, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> 
>> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
>> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to 
>> the chase. ;)
>>
>> Mike Kramlich
>> ZodLogic Games
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Mon May 26 01:15:11 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 16:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <4839EDAB.6090204@hostedlabs.com>
Message-ID: <89380.93201.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm more used to vim but I haven't used it much for programming. I
tend to use it only in terminals and when using notes. After trying
out vim and also perusing vim's documentation I've determined that it
isn't powerful enough for the kind of extensions I would like to
write. However, I don't consider myself an expert so I figured I'd
post the question here. I thought it was relevant to this mailing
list because after all I'm mostly interested in extending the editor
using Python.

As for Emacs, I haven't used it much and know just enough to quit it
without closing the terminal itself. A long ago I tried it but really
didn't like it. However Cosmin brought up Viper, which sounds
interesting to me. So I think it can't hurt to try out Emacs along
with Pymacs.

Anyway I hope it's clear now that the main question is not which text
editor is better but which has better extensibility with respect to
Python.

--- Jason Rexilius <jason at hostedlabs.com> wrote:

> to quote the age old saying, "emacs is a great operating system,
> its a 
> terrible editor though.."
> 
> I can't say that I've really used emacs but for a brief trial run
> in 98, 
> but I have heard nothing about it that doesn't always circle back
> to how 
> extensible it is.
> 
> The question I think, is how extensible do you need and is doing
> that in 
> vim easier or haredr than re-learning a new way of working?
> 
> I would probably spend some cycles thinking about what you would 
> actually need and seeing how hard that would be to implement in vim
> then 
> comparing that with loss of efficiency in changing editor worlds.
> 
> will send some examples shortly..
> 
> Rob Kapteyn wrote:
> > HE HE ;-)
> > Yes, vi vs. emacs can become an endless heated debate is some
> nerdy groups.
> > *** but this group is not like that ***
> > That's why every ChiPy meeting is "our best ever", and whenever
> new 
> > people show up, they keep coming back.
> > (well -- until they move out of state ;-)
> > -Rob
> > 
> > On May 25, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> > 
> >> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
> >> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut
> to 
> >> the chase. ;)
> >>
> >> Mike Kramlich
> >> ZodLogic Games
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon May 26 15:13:36 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:13:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805260613s6eb0d7bl418da5db0ef40076@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 1:56 AM, Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com> wrote:

> The impression I've got is that Emacs is more extensible than Vim due
> to the way it was designed. Vim experts on the list, please step in
> and correct me if I'm wrong. In the mean time take a look at the first

I am not an expert but I've seen one on tv. Mabye Feihong could email
Sean (I forgot how to spell his last name) with these questions. Sean
gave a talk on vim and python at PyCon 2007.


-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon May 26 15:09:04 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:09:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805260609r5af4f6d1r5ab281ffb055be27@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich <groglogic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to the
> chase. ;)

I have to do a lot of java coding these days, and so I am in Eclipse a
lot of the time, with a vim mode.

I still do lots of command line quick convenient looking at files with
vim. lots of where the hell was that file? then a find -exec vim {}
thing.




-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon May 26 15:10:31 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 08:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640805260609r5af4f6d1r5ab281ffb055be27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
	<a68ced640805260609r5af4f6d1r5ab281ffb055be27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805260610ocb216due7e5200e31ea102b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 8:09 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich <groglogic at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
>> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to the
>> chase. ;)
>
> I have to do a lot of java coding these days, and so I am in Eclipse a
> lot of the time, with a vim mode.
>
> I still do lots of command line quick convenient looking at files with
> vim. lots of where the hell was that file? then a find -exec vim {}
> thing.

oh and I don't like python in eclipse (maybe I should try pydev more?)
so it is all vim right now.

I used emacs a lot for tcl coding back in the day.


-- 
sheila

From list at phaedrusdeinus.org  Mon May 26 18:20:22 2008
From: list at phaedrusdeinus.org (John Melesky)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:20:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <4839EDAB.6090204@hostedlabs.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
	<181814CE-44DC-43F3-9AD6-C61ED680CB2F@gmail.com>
	<4839EDAB.6090204@hostedlabs.com>
Message-ID: <43AD81D1-0AD3-4C05-A8CE-B8375BB5B100@phaedrusdeinus.org>

On May 25, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Jason Rexilius wrote:
> The question I think, is how extensible do you need and is doing  
> that in vim easier or haredr than re-learning a new way of working?

In my experience, people think they need X extensibility. And every  
time they achieve X extensibility, they find situations where they  
need X+1 extensibility.

Hence, emacs. QED.

-johnnnnnnnnnnn


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon May 26 19:19:36 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:19:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <43AD81D1-0AD3-4C05-A8CE-B8375BB5B100@phaedrusdeinus.org>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
	<181814CE-44DC-43F3-9AD6-C61ED680CB2F@gmail.com>
	<4839EDAB.6090204@hostedlabs.com>
	<43AD81D1-0AD3-4C05-A8CE-B8375BB5B100@phaedrusdeinus.org>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220805261019k20b570a8q91147e0126465315@mail.gmail.com>

<3 Emacs

<3 Vim

I recommend that anyone learn both, they both have their uses and places.

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM, John Melesky <list at phaedrusdeinus.org>
wrote:

> On May 25, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Jason Rexilius wrote:
>
>> The question I think, is how extensible do you need and is doing that in
>> vim easier or haredr than re-learning a new way of working?
>>
>
> In my experience, people think they need X extensibility. And every time
> they achieve X extensibility, they find situations where they need X+1
> extensibility.
>
> Hence, emacs. QED.
>
> -johnnnnnnnnnnn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080526/a78c5090/attachment.htm>

From tottinge at gmail.com  Tue May 27 02:28:36 2008
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tm Ottinger)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:28:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
Message-ID: <483b55b9.0269400a.6dc5.1af2@mx.google.com>

Im a kind of vim expert, so ill look into python extensions and see how good or bad it is.  Im reading this in transit to an out of state gig but will dig in soonest.

-----Original Message-----
From: Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>
Sent: May 25, 2008 6:15 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs

I'm more used to vim but I haven't used it much for programming. I
tend to use it only in terminals and when using notes. After trying
out vim and also perusing vim's documentation I've determined that it
isn't powerful enough for the kind of extensions I would like to
write. However, I don't consider myself an expert so I figured I'd
post the question here. I thought it was relevant to this mailing
list because after all I'm mostly interested in extending the editor
using Python.

As for Emacs, I haven't used it much and know just enough to quit it
without closing the terminal itself. A long ago I tried it but really
didn't like it. However Cosmin brought up Viper, which sounds
interesting to me. So I think it can't hurt to try out Emacs along
with Pymacs.

Anyway I hope it's clear now that the main question is not which text
editor is better but which has better extensibility with respect to
Python.

--- Jason Rexilius <jason at hostedlabs.com> wrote:

> to quote the age old saying, "emacs is a great operating system,
> its a 
> terrible editor though.."
> 
> I can't say that I've really used emacs but for a brief trial run
> in 98, 
> but I have heard nothing about it that doesn't always circle back
> to how 
> extensible it is.
> 
> The question I think, is how extensible do you need and is doing
> that in 
> vim easier or haredr than re-learning a new way of working?
> 
> I would probably spend some cycles thinking about what you would 
> actually need and seeing how hard that would be to implement in vim
> then 
> comparing that with loss of efficiency in changing editor worlds.
> 
> will send some examples shortly..
> 
> Rob Kapteyn wrote:
> > HE HE ;-)
> > Yes, vi vs. emacs can become an endless heated debate is some
> nerdy groups.
> > *** but this group is not like that ***
> > That's why every ChiPy meeting is "our best ever", and whenever
> new 
> > people show up, they keep coming back.
> > (well -- until they move out of state ;-)
> > -Rob
> > 
> > On May 25, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich wrote:
> > 

[The entire original message is not included]

From tottinge at gmail.com  Tue May 27 02:30:51 2008
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tm Ottinger)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:30:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
Message-ID: <483b563e.1238400a.4518.fffffd8e@mx.google.com>

Pydev wasn't totally awful.  I do most of my serious stuff in vim or even idle (no, really).  Most of the time vim with quickfix mode set to run nosetests makes me happy.

-----Original Message-----
From: sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
Sent: May 26, 2008 8:10 AM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 8:09 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich <groglogic at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
>> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut to the
>> chase. ;)
>
> I have to do a lot of java coding these days, and so I am in Eclipse a
> lot of the time, with a vim mode.
>
> I still do lots of command line quick convenient looking at files with
> vim. lots of where the hell was that file? then a find -exec vim {}
> thing.

oh and I don't like python in eclipse (maybe I should try pydev more?)
so it is all vim right now.

I used emacs a lot for tcl coding back in the day.


-- 
sheila
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From nerkles at gmail.com  Tue May 27 04:29:19 2008
From: nerkles at gmail.com (Isaac Csandl)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:29:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <645BAC1F-195C-4328-BF62-3015056749B0@gmail.com>

I'll go way out on a limb here and say I don't like either of them.

<3 TextMate

--isaac


From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 04:33:04 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 19:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <483b563e.1238400a.4518.fffffd8e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <679034.12386.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I do a LOT of programming in IDLE. I think IDLE is great, DARPA
really got their money's worth. Unfortunately, Tk itself is not so
great on all platforms, so IDLE isn't as good on some platforms as
others.


--- Tm Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pydev wasn't totally awful.  I do most of my serious stuff in vim
> or even idle (no, really).  Most of the time vim with quickfix mode
> set to run nosetests makes me happy.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> Sent: May 26, 2008 8:10 AM
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
> 
> On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 8:09 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Mike Kramlich
> <groglogic at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.
> >> Yes, yes, Nazi's have not been mentioned yet but I wanted to cut
> to the
> >> chase. ;)
> >
> > I have to do a lot of java coding these days, and so I am in
> Eclipse a
> > lot of the time, with a vim mode.
> >
> > I still do lots of command line quick convenient looking at files
> with
> > vim. lots of where the hell was that file? then a find -exec vim
> {}
> > thing.
> 
> oh and I don't like python in eclipse (maybe I should try pydev
> more?)
> so it is all vim right now.
> 
> I used emacs a lot for tcl coding back in the day.
> 
> 
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 



      

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue May 27 16:04:24 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:04:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <679034.12386.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <483b563e.1238400a.4518.fffffd8e@mx.google.com>
	<679034.12386.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805270704n7601e46dged7d328cdc8b15f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I do a LOT of programming in IDLE. I think IDLE is great, DARPA
> really got their money's worth. Unfortunately, Tk itself is not so
> great on all platforms, so IDLE isn't as good on some platforms as
> others.

I haven't checked out the latest incarnations of Tk, but back when I
was following tcl/tk progress, there was a huge push to get Tk up to
par on all platforms. Not true?



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue May 27 16:06:34 2008
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:06:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vi or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <645BAC1F-195C-4328-BF62-3015056749B0@gmail.com>
References: <B71C8870-7FB3-4300-91B3-4230A4FBD5F9@gmail.com>
	<645BAC1F-195C-4328-BF62-3015056749B0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640805270706y321c7acbr6e5a666323aa6d1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Isaac Csandl <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll go way out on a limb here and say I don't like either of them.
>
> <3 TextMate
>
> --isaac

He specifically said that he had already checked other editors out so
I didn't mention it, but I was sorely tempted to try it out after
watching a groovy guy do demos at a conference live. He really had a
great flow going with it and it was all kinds of awesome. So, this is
not a reply for Feihong, but for everyone else.

Can you go into more details about how you like it?

We had an editor comparison at a meeting once, right? I only vaguely
remember it.



-- 
sheila

From clint.laskowski at gmail.com  Sun May 25 08:08:37 2008
From: clint.laskowski at gmail.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 01:08:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <de5213a50805242308g353114cp792ac5b1dedb8b0f@mail.gmail.com>

Go with Emacs. I've heard the Vim project is shutting down.


On 5/25/08, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> it.
>
> I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
>
> Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
>
> Cheers,
> Feihong
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


-- 

-- Clint

Clint Laskowski, CISSP
clint.laskowski at gmail.com

From scott.sexton at gmail.com  Sun May 25 15:44:52 2008
From: scott.sexton at gmail.com (Scott Sexton)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 08:44:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<276266d0805242356q4e58bea6sacc927d7c4dfa737@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43299c0d0805250644r5592c065nd017d7b9fbbb9006@mail.gmail.com>

One possibility for Vim, as far as running something when you save, is that
you can put this line in your .vimrc file:
map <f2> :w\|!python %<cr>
With that, pressing F2 will run your program and then take you back to the
editor when your program completes.

~Scott

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 1:56 AM, Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> > it.
>
> If you like Vi key bindings but decide to go with Emacs you might be
> interested in Viper mode which does a pretty good job at emulating Vim
> keys in Emacs.
>
> >
> > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
> >
>
> The impression I've got is that Emacs is more extensible than Vim due
> to the way it was designed. Vim experts on the list, please step in
> and correct me if I'm wrong. In the mean time take a look at the first
> part of this thread
> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/83976 it
> seems I'm not the only thinking this way.
>
> For example adding a hook for whenever a buffer is saved is trivial in
> Emacs. Take a look at an example (coincidentally involving Pymacs) at
> http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/pymacs.html#auto-reloading-on-save
>
> While Emacs itself is very extensible it's possible you'll run into
> limitations of Pymacs depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
> Take a look at http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/TODO for an idea.
>
> > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
>
> If extensibility is your primary concern I would highly recommend
> Emacs, although I would also recommend getting comfortable with Emacs
> Lisp at least to work around whatever you can't accomplish with
> Pymacs.
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://blog.offbytwo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080525/44085a43/attachment.htm>

From dbt at meat.net  Tue May 27 17:08:21 2008
From: dbt at meat.net (David Terrell)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:08:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <de5213a50805242308g353114cp792ac5b1dedb8b0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<de5213a50805242308g353114cp792ac5b1dedb8b0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080527150821.GB1174@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

(If this is a joke... you need to work on your delivery.)

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 01:08:37AM -0500, Clint Laskowski wrote:
> Go with Emacs. I've heard the Vim project is shutting down.
> 
> 
> On 5/25/08, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> > it.
> >
> > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
> >
> > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Feihong
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -- Clint
> 
> Clint Laskowski, CISSP
> clint.laskowski at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 

-- 
David Terrell
dbt at meat.net
((meatspace)) http://meat.net/

From cwebber at imagescape.com  Tue May 27 17:16:54 2008
From: cwebber at imagescape.com (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:16:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Feihong Hsu's
	message of "Sun, 25 May 2008 06:56:10 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6y4p8jpyjd.fsf@imagescape.com>

Emacs has a pretty high learning curve, but its also by far the most
powerful and rewarding editor that exists.  It's also fairly close to
the python philosophy of "batteries included"... 90% of the things
you'd want to do are bundled with emacs, the other ten percent can be
found strewn across these here intarwebs.  Emacs is pretty much an
editor inside a lisp machine, and it's extendable on the fly, as you
run it.

It also has great python integration, and its not very difficult to
have emacs open a mediated python session where you can easily pass in
regions of code that you're writing with just a few keystrokes.  That,
amongst a billion other features.  I learn something new and powerful
about emacs every day, almost.

If you're wondering whether to use GNU Emacs or XEmacs, use GNU emacs.
XEmacs is pretty dead, and the features that made it "better" than GNU
emacs well over a decade ago have long become obsolete.

When in doubt, check the emacs wiki:
http://www.emacswiki.org/

And when still in doubt, join #emacs on freenode.

To get started, open up emacs and type the command:
C-h t   (Control+h, then 't')

This will open the emacs tutorial.

It's all a bit overwhelming at first, but I guarantee that once you go
Emacs, you'll never go back.


Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> writes:

> Ironically, I read this shortly after posting my question:
>
> http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/04/xemacs-is-dead-long-live-xemacs.html
>
> Although Steve Yegge isn't really comparing vim to Emacs, he does
> convince me that Emacs is extensible enough for my needs. 
>
> However I still don't know about vim. But for those of you who
> haven't tried it, I think the Python integration in vim is pretty
> slick. The plain vanilla vim binary didn't have Python, but after I
> installed Cream it Just Worked (Cream is a user-friendlier version of
> vim with a gtk frontend). Maybe it's not very powerful, but the API
> is very easy to work with and can probably solve 80% of my scripting
> needs. Since it just uses your default Python, you can import any
> modules you want, like lxml, Tkinter, etc. But at least in the vim
> module available to Python, I didn't see any way to use vim's dialogs
> or to hook into events/signals. Don't know if this is also a
> limitation in vim's built-in scripting language.
>
> I will probably try out Emacs now in the spirit of learning new
> stuff.
>
> --- Cosmin Stejerean <cstejerean at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu
>> <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
>> > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used
>> to
>> > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high
>> school.
>> > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly
>> extensible,
>> > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins
>> for
>> > it.
>> 
>> If you like Vi key bindings but decide to go with Emacs you might
>> be
>> interested in Viper mode which does a pretty good job at emulating
>> Vim
>> keys in Emacs.
>> 
>> >
>> > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
>> > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get
>> the
>> > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events,
>> e.g.
>> > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
>> > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim.
>> But
>> > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more
>> extensible
>> > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
>> >
>> 
>> The impression I've got is that Emacs is more extensible than Vim
>> due
>> to the way it was designed. Vim experts on the list, please step in
>> and correct me if I'm wrong. In the mean time take a look at the
>> first
>> part of this thread
>> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/83976
>> it
>> seems I'm not the only thinking this way.
>> 
>> For example adding a hook for whenever a buffer is saved is trivial
>> in
>> Emacs. Take a look at an example (coincidentally involving Pymacs)
>> at
>> http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/pymacs.html#auto-reloading-on-save
>> 
>> While Emacs itself is very extensible it's possible you'll run into
>> limitations of Pymacs depending on what you're trying to
>> accomplish.
>> Take a look at http://pymacs.progiciels-bpi.ca/TODO for an idea.
>> 
>> > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are
>> I've
>> > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason.
>> Right
>> > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the
>> one
>> > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
>> 
>> If extensibility is your primary concern I would highly recommend
>> Emacs, although I would also recommend getting comfortable with
>> Emacs
>> Lisp at least to work around whatever you can't accomplish with
>> Pymacs.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Cosmin Stejerean
>> http://blog.offbytwo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> 
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From ken at stox.org  Tue May 27 17:48:46 2008
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:48:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <6y4p8jpyjd.fsf@imagescape.com>
References: <556362.21252.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6y4p8jpyjd.fsf@imagescape.com>
Message-ID: <1211903326.14890.10.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

Real Men(TM) edit in TECO!


From clint.laskowski at gmail.com  Wed May 28 02:10:55 2008
From: clint.laskowski at gmail.com (Clint Laskowski)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:10:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <20080527150821.GB1174@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<de5213a50805242308g353114cp792ac5b1dedb8b0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080527150821.GB1174@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
Message-ID: <de5213a50805271710m5c9ec347j60602c24737efebd@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, it was a joke. Sorry about that :-)

-- Clint

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:08 AM, David Terrell <dbt at meat.net> wrote:

> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
>
> (If this is a joke... you need to work on your delivery.)
>
> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 01:08:37AM -0500, Clint Laskowski wrote:
> > Go with Emacs. I've heard the Vim project is shutting down.
> >
> >
> > On 5/25/08, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> > > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> > > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> > > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> > > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> > > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> > > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> > > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> > > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> > > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> > > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
> > >
> > > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> > > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> > > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> > > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Feihong
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Chicago mailing list
> > > Chicago at python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > -- Clint
> >
> > Clint Laskowski, CISSP
> > clint.laskowski at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
> --
> David Terrell
> dbt at meat.net
> ((meatspace)) http://meat.net/
>



-- 

-- Clint

Clint Laskowski, CISSP
clint.laskowski at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080527/4b4aa666/attachment.htm>

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Wed May 28 17:44:40 2008
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <de5213a50805271710m5c9ec347j60602c24737efebd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<de5213a50805242308g353114cp792ac5b1dedb8b0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080527150821.GB1174@sphinx.chicagopeoplez.org>
	<de5213a50805271710m5c9ec347j60602c24737efebd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58a5f2220805280844s2d47ef43t849e86ad664e701a@mail.gmail.com>

Don't let spoil sports ruin your party. I did hear a little anxiety mixed
with desperation in the tone of David's post though.

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Clint Laskowski <clint.laskowski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Okay, it was a joke. Sorry about that :-)
>
> -- Clint
>
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:08 AM, David Terrell <dbt at meat.net> wrote:
>
>> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
>>
>> (If this is a joke... you need to work on your delivery.)
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080528/54fff389/attachment.htm>

From szybalski at gmail.com  Wed May 28 19:27:09 2008
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:27:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <804e5c70805281027u286d4639q2019b08bfba35d4b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> it.
>
> I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
>
> Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
>

I use vim for over 4 years, with no drawbacks.

Go with vim, syntax coloring, autocomplete, and what else did you need?
http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c

Lucas


-- 
Automotive Recall Database. Cars, Trucks, etc.
http://www.lucasmanual.com/recall/
TurboGears Manual-Howto
http://lucasmanual.com/pdf/TurboGears-Manual-Howto.pdf

From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu May 29 00:04:24 2008
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:04:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow,
	May 29
In-Reply-To: <bf0b20a90805281459h71df12d6o37dc658c3e1de548@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90805281459h71df12d6o37dc658c3e1de548@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>

FYI


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com>
Date: Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow, May 29
To: django-chicago at googlegroups.com



Join us tomorrow for the first meeting of the Chicago Djangonauts!

When: Thursday, May 29 @ 6:30p
Where: Mercury Cafe, 1505 W Chicago Ave, Chicago IL
Location info: http://www.chimercurycafe.com/

This first meeting will be informal -- just lounging and chatting.
We're not expecting too many people, but feel free to come and
surprise us!

I'll probably be wearing a hat with cat-ears or a pig-face, so just
look for the crazy guy.  ;)

Via CTA, you can take bus route #66 west-bound from the Chicago Blue
or Brown stations to Chicago and Greenview; Mercury is right across
the street to the southwest.  (Google Transit and Street View rock.)

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Chicago Djangonauts" group.
To post to this group, send email to django-chicago at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
django-chicago-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/django-chicago?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

From korpios at korpios.com  Thu May 29 00:40:56 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:40:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow,
	May 29
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90805281459h71df12d6o37dc658c3e1de548@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90805281540t2e1e870bwe1d26d314d54e6cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com> wrote:
> FYI
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com>
> Date: Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:59 PM
> Subject: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow, May 29
> To: django-chicago at googlegroups.com
>
> Join us tomorrow for the first meeting of the Chicago Djangonauts!

Doh!  Thanks, Chris.  I hit django-users and forgot ChiPy ... ::smacks self::

From abb2104 at columbia.edu  Thu May 29 17:37:46 2008
From: abb2104 at columbia.edu (abb2104 at columbia.edu)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:37:46 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow,
	May 29
In-Reply-To: <3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf0b20a90805281459h71df12d6o37dc658c3e1de548@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080529113746.cxzh8g3ohwowsocs@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>

Will Adrian Holovaty be in attendance?

Quoting Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com>:

> FYI
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com>
> Date: Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:59 PM
> Subject: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow, May 29
> To: django-chicago at googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> Join us tomorrow for the first meeting of the Chicago Djangonauts!
>
> When: Thursday, May 29 @ 6:30p
> Where: Mercury Cafe, 1505 W Chicago Ave, Chicago IL
> Location info: http://www.chimercurycafe.com/
>
> This first meeting will be informal -- just lounging and chatting.
> We're not expecting too many people, but feel free to come and
> surprise us!
>
> I'll probably be wearing a hat with cat-ears or a pig-face, so just
> look for the crazy guy.  ;)
>
> Via CTA, you can take bus route #66 west-bound from the Chicago Blue
> or Brown stations to Chicago and Greenview; Mercury is right across
> the street to the southwest.  (Google Transit and Street View rock.)
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Chicago Djangonauts" group.
> To post to this group, send email to django-chicago at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> django-chicago-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/django-chicago?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



From korpios at korpios.com  Thu May 29 18:25:04 2008
From: korpios at korpios.com (Tom Tobin)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:25:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow,
	May 29
In-Reply-To: <20080529113746.cxzh8g3ohwowsocs@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
References: <bf0b20a90805281459h71df12d6o37dc658c3e1de548@mail.gmail.com>
	<3096c19d0805281504s4c82c505nea1215f48d00e7db@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080529113746.cxzh8g3ohwowsocs@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <bf0b20a90805290925k49f840a2s90d57d5758d09992@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:37 AM,  <abb2104 at columbia.edu> wrote:
> Will Adrian Holovaty be in attendance?

I have no idea, but my guess would be no; we're not expecting many
people this first time around, since the exact date and venue were
late in the nailing-down.  He's welcome to surprise us, though ? and
that goes for anyone!  :)  We'll just be doing informal introductions
and chatting in a coffee house; I'm not even bringing my laptop.

In the future, though, questions about the Chicago Djangonauts are
best directed to the group's mailing list:

http://groups.google.com/group/django-chicago


> Quoting Chris McAvoy <chris.mcavoy at gmail.com>:
>
>> FYI
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Tom Tobin <korpios at korpios.com>
>> Date: Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:59 PM
>> Subject: ANNOUNCE: Chicago Djangonauts Meeting Tomorrow, May 29
>> To: django-chicago at googlegroups.com
>>
>> Join us tomorrow for the first meeting of the Chicago Djangonauts!

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri May 30 16:42:38 2008
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Pymacs!
Message-ID: <392307.89721.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

After learning some Emacs basics, I finally started playing around
with Pymacs. So far I can get it to bring up Tkinter and wxPython
windows that can modify the current buffer, which is pretty neat. But
when I try to insert some unicode strings into the buffer, it's kinda
messed up. 

I'm still learning Emacs in general, which limits me in terms of what
kind of extensions I can create. But so far I like it. Compared to
vim's Python integration it's not as elegant (I don't see a way to
execute arbitrary Python code in the minibuffer), but it seems
cleaner (your extension files are pure Python modules instead of vim
script files).

Anyway, these are my first impressions.

- Feihong




      

From varmaa at gmail.com  Fri May 30 17:19:00 2008
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 08:19:00 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Pymacs!
In-Reply-To: <392307.89721.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <392307.89721.qm@web34805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370805300819t36b692e5x89e2872da0eaabca@mail.gmail.com>

Feihong,

You might want to take a look at pymdev in regards to executing arbitrary
python code in Emacs:

  http://www.toolness.com/pymdev/

The unicode stuff is definitely very funky, though, and I've had problems
with it myself (pymdev does too).

- Atul

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:

> After learning some Emacs basics, I finally started playing around
> with Pymacs. So far I can get it to bring up Tkinter and wxPython
> windows that can modify the current buffer, which is pretty neat. But
> when I try to insert some unicode strings into the buffer, it's kinda
> messed up.
>
> I'm still learning Emacs in general, which limits me in terms of what
> kind of extensions I can create. But so far I like it. Compared to
> vim's Python integration it's not as elegant (I don't see a way to
> execute arbitrary Python code in the minibuffer), but it seems
> cleaner (your extension files are pure Python modules instead of vim
> script files).
>
> Anyway, these are my first impressions.
>
> - Feihong
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080530/7c176243/attachment.htm>

From bray at sent.com  Fri May 30 23:53:35 2008
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:53:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python and VIM
Message-ID: <5F0E0EAD-9ABA-439D-A00D-B9B46B76C891@sent.com>

There are several ways to use python in VIM. One way is to script vim  
from python.

One way is to use the "--enable-pythoninterp" (aka +python, feature)  
when building vim--no lisp required. Here is a entry I wrote a while  
ago on just that:

  <http://brianray.chipy.org/2004/Jul>

The vim module allows total scripting of VIM <http://www.vim.org/htmldoc/if_pyth.html 
 >.

Here is another resource for scripting vim from Python:

  <http://www.tummy.com/Community/Presentations/vimpython-20070225/vim.html 
 >

Another, probably more obvious, way to use Python with VIM, is to  
write Python with VIM.  You can really set up a whole IDE:

  <http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/>

One addition I would consider from the above is using vimshell, where  
in a split screen you can use whatever shell tool you want--like run  
iPython, for example.


Brian Ray
bray at sent.com
http://kazavoo.com/blog



From samir.list at gmail.com  Sat May 31 03:04:23 2008
From: samir.list at gmail.com (Samir F)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 01:04:23 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] Vim or Emacs
In-Reply-To: <804e5c70805281027u286d4639q2019b08bfba35d4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <58466.99300.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<804e5c70805281027u286d4639q2019b08bfba35d4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a5a8f66d0805301804u72cf22dej4d658fceab09237e@mail.gmail.com>

wow....  a thread about emacs vs vim that didn't turn into a flame war.  I'm
kind of impressed.

my 2 cents.

I prefer vim..but I'm used to vim.. I can make it dance.. far more then
emacs.

I think the learning curve for vim is way higher... you start vim or vi and
you have no clue wtf you're doing or how to even do anything in it.  My
first time with vim.. i type vim, i couldn't figure wtf to do, and I closed
th ssh session.

Emacs, far easier to use.  You can start using like you would use notepad or
nano, and slowly learn things along the way that make it into a more
powerful editior.  I personally can't stand the keybindings...and each time
I try emacs, I tend to wish i could map certain keys to a footpedal or an
extra input.

Either ways, both have their ups and downs, choose the one you like best.

--
Samir

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > I've decided I need to move to a more powerful text editor. I've
> > narrowed my choices down to Vim and Emacs. Personally, I'm used to
> > the Vi modal style, having been forced to learn it in high school.
> > However, I have a strong need for the editor to be highly extensible,
> > meaning I should be able to write fairly sophisticated plugins for
> > it.
> >
> > I know that Vim has python support and so does Emacs (through
> > Pymacs). However, after playing around with python in vim, I get the
> > impression that I can't bind any callbacks to program events, e.g.
> > run something every time the user saves the buffer to disk. It's
> > possible that I'm mistaken, as I'm not overly familiar with vim. But
> > I'm wondering now if Pymacs or Emacs in general is more extensible
> > than vim. Is there anybody who cares to weigh in on this?
> >
> > Oh, and please don't mention any other text editors. Chances are I've
> > already looked at them and rejected them for whatever reason. Right
> > now I'm trying to narrow it down between Emacs and Vim, and the one
> > criteria I'm really unsure about is extensibility.
> >
>
> I use vim for over 4 years, with no drawbacks.
>
> Go with vim, syntax coloring, autocomplete, and what else did you need?
>
> http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/#head-8ce19b13e89893059e126b719bebe4ee32fe103c
>
> Lucas
>
>
> --
> Automotive Recall Database. Cars, Trucks, etc.
> http://www.lucasmanual.com/recall/
> TurboGears Manual-Howto
> http://lucasmanual.com/pdf/TurboGears-Manual-Howto.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080531/dd98cabb/attachment.htm>

From cburke at wolve.com  Thu May 29 15:57:21 2008
From: cburke at wolve.com (Burke, Cory)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 08:57:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Wolverine Trading - Trading Engine Developer (Open
	Position)
Message-ID: <6BCBFA220A7F4F49BD5A8EEA0A0F77091317AC87@WOLVE-MAILBOX.wolve.com>

Please see the attached, open position.  If you have any questions
and/or would like to apply to this position, please send your resume in
reply to this email.  Also, please feel to distribute this email as you
see appropriate.  

 

Regards,

Cory

 

 

 

 

  <http://www.wolve.com/> 

Chicago, London

San Francisco, New York

 

Cory Burke <mailto:joinus at wolve.com> 

Hiring Manager

312.884.3794

312.884.4794 (f)

 

 


This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipients named above. 
If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient, you have received this email in error and any review, 
dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please notify the sender immediately by return email and permanently delete the copy you received. 

This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer 
to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. Wolverine is not responsible for any 
recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account 
or account activity that may be attached to or contained in this communication. Wolverine accepts no 
liability for any content contained in the email, or any errors or omissions arising as a result of 
email transmission. Any opinions contained in this email constitute the sender's best judgment at this 
time and are subject to change without notice.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080529/dd9e19ab/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2353 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080529/dd9e19ab/attachment-0001.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Wolverine Trading, LLC - Trading Engine Developer.pdf
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 52912 bytes
Desc: Wolverine Trading, LLC - Trading Engine Developer.pdf
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/attachments/20080529/dd9e19ab/attachment-0001.obj>