From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Apr  2 10:20:43 2009
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:20:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pycon vids
Message-ID: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>

are flowing...
http://pycon.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc

Carl K



From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 11:03:05 2009
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 04:03:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pycon vids
In-Reply-To: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
References: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <694c06d60904020203t21e99426v7b42f561b618fd85@mail.gmail.com>

You guys are doing great, good work!

2009/4/2 Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>:
> are flowing...
> http://pycon.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
>
> Carl K
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From nerkles at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:05:35 2009
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:05:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pycon vids
In-Reply-To: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
References: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <57427b5b0904020805i2c34825flfc11c2e6796c2f15@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for doing this so quickly! Wow.

2009/4/2 Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>

> are flowing...
> http://pycon.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
>
> Carl K
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tcp at mac.com  Thu Apr  2 17:15:23 2009
From: tcp at mac.com (Ted Pollari)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:15:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pycon vids
In-Reply-To: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
References: <49D4755B.5020909@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <4AC35109-0BD5-43F4-9A0C-063DE2D46A82@mac.com>


On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:20 AM, Carl Karsten wrote:

> are flowing...
> http://pycon.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
>
> Carl K


awesomeness.

once again, good work, Carl & Co.

From bray at sent.com  Sat Apr  4 15:30:55 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 08:30:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
Message-ID: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>

Hello all!

I think last year we were all too PyCon'd out to hold our monthly  
meeting following the conference. But, I am willing to try and put  
something together last minute if any of you want to meet :)  What ya  
wanna do here?

BTW, it looks like was have an invite from ThoughtWorks to host in  
May. Yay!

Brian Ray




From ross at crowdspring.com  Sat Apr  4 22:59:07 2009
From: ross at crowdspring.com (Ross Kimbarovsky)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:59:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python software engineer - full time opportunity
Message-ID: <eb1a1aa0904041359g4d9836e0v274b4e83dafef39d@mail.gmail.com>

Some of you have already seen our post, but if you have not, crowdSPRING is
hiring! We're looking for a senior python software engineer to join our team
in Chicago. Here's a link to a full description:
http://djangogigs.com/gigs/591/

Would love to hear from you if the opportunity sounds interesting and your
background is a match - and would appreciate it if you would circulate to
others who might be a good fit.

Best,

Ross
_____
Ross E. Kimbarovsky
847.275.9004 (cell)
http://www.crowdspring.com
http://www.twitter.com/rosskimbarovsky
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From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Mon Apr  6 03:33:09 2009
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:33:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com> (Brian Ray's
	message of "Sat, 4 Apr 2009 08:30:55 -0500")
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
Message-ID: <87ws9yr2ga.fsf@grumps.dustycloud.org>

I'd possibly be interested in something low-key.  I don't really have
much to demo though.  I'm kind of recovering from a pycon hangover, and
I suspect many on the list are as well.

Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> writes:

> Hello all!
>
> I think last year we were all too PyCon'd out to hold our monthly
> meeting following the conference. But, I am willing to try and put
> something together last minute if any of you want to meet :)  What ya
> wanna do here?
>
> BTW, it looks like was have an invite from ThoughtWorks to host in
> May. Yay!
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr  6 16:57:49 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:57:49 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2009 Survey waiting for you
References: <3DDE2514-2800-4799-8D14-CFA41B00BF24@sent.com>
Message-ID: <3BA18625-E935-485A-AF10-CEEE052CB44D@sent.com>


Greetings Chipers,

For those of you who attended PyCon and did not fill out the Survey,  
here is your chance:

  <http://us.pycon.org/2009/survey/>

Hurry, this survey will be closed at the end of April.  Your feedback  
and opinions are valuable in helping us improve PyCon every year.

Brian Ray




From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Apr  6 17:59:31 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:59:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>

If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always bierstube.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I think last year we were all too PyCon'd out to hold our monthly meeting
> following the conference. But, I am willing to try and put something
> together last minute if any of you want to meet :) ?What ya wanna do here?
>
> BTW, it looks like was have an invite from ThoughtWorks to host in May. Yay!
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From pfein at pobox.com  Mon Apr  6 19:14:37 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:14:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1DFDFD5E-E4A8-4EB5-8BAD-E445B9CFDDCB@pobox.com>

+1

We could just bring laptops & goof around & drink.

Hmm, sounds just like Pycon. ;-)

On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:

> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always  
> bierstube.
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I think last year we were all too PyCon'd out to hold our monthly  
>> meeting
>> following the conference. But, I am willing to try and put something
>> together last minute if any of you want to meet :)  What ya wanna  
>> do here?
>>
>> BTW, it looks like was have an invite from ThoughtWorks to host in  
>> May. Yay!
>>
>> Brian Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Mon Apr  6 19:23:33 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:23:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904061023i65298374wa9becbe6d1d1d8de@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always bierstube.
>

+1 on bierstube. Can we do it Tuesday or Wednesday?

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr  6 19:29:20 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:29:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>


On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:

> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always  
> bierstube.


+1.  Where is Bierstube?

Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr  6 19:41:04 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:41:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] No Formal April Meeting
Message-ID: <CBC4BBE8-9ADE-47B3-81F3-ED1704F93EB5@sent.com>

** Due to the fact we just hosted PyCon, there will be no formal April  
Meeting **

Check the main ChiPy mailing list to see when/where we will be having  
an informal get together.

See you in May!

From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Mon Apr  6 19:46:47 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:46:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>
>  If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always
>> bierstube.
>>
>
>
> +1.  Where is Bierstube?
>
>
Resi's Bierstube, 2034 W Irving Park Rd (Irving Park & Damen).

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 00:45:47 2009
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:45:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>
>>> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always
>>> bierstube.
>>
>>
>> +1. ?Where is Bierstube?
>
> Resi's Bierstube,?2034 W Irving Park Rd (Irving Park & Damen).
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://offbytwo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From jbsnyder at fanplastic.org  Tue Apr  7 01:10:14 2009
From: jbsnyder at fanplastic.org (James Snyder)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:10:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl35IAea4dec27c795c0cd30b1161,
	jbsnyder@fanplastic.org, 6D826C90-A39A-4455-BD4C-B2B>

+1

On Apr 6, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:

> +1
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Cosmin Stejerean  
> <cosmin at offbytwo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>>
>>>> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always
>>>> bierstube.
>>>
>>>
>>> +1.  Where is Bierstube?
>>
>> Resi's Bierstube, 2034 W Irving Park Rd (Irving Park & Damen).
>>
>> --
>> Cosmin Stejerean
>> http://offbytwo.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: (847) 448-0386

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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Tue Apr  7 01:15:10 2009
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo Di Pierro)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:15:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
Message-ID: <FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>

Is there a date yet?

Massimo

On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:10 PM, James Snyder wrote:

> +1
>
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Tim Saylor wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Cosmin Stejerean
>> <cosmin at offbytwo.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:59 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If everyone is too conned out for a real meeting, there's always
>>>>> bierstube.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1.  Where is Bierstube?
>>>
>>> Resi's Bierstube, 2034 W Irving Park Rd (Irving Park & Damen).
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> --
> James Snyder
> Biomedical Engineering
> Northwestern University
> jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
> http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
> ph: (847) 448-0386
>
> <PGP.sig><ATT00001.txt>


From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Tue Apr  7 01:20:38 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:20:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro
<mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu>wrote:

> Is there a date yet?
>

If we're going to do it this week I'd like to vote for Wednesday as it will
be easier for me to get there than on Thursday. It also makes it easy for
people that can't usually make the Thursday meetings. If the group would
like to wait until next week then I'd recommend something other than
Wednesday as it is the 15th (tax day and my Clojure meetup).

Anyone else have any preferences for dates?

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From echbar137 at yahoo.co.in  Tue Apr  7 15:44:12 2009
From: echbar137 at yahoo.co.in (T Wegner)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:14:12 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Chicago] Prime Number Generator
Message-ID: <539248.97201.qm@web8803.mail.in.yahoo.com>

#!usr/bin/env python3
# PrimeNumGenSimple.py
# Prime number generation by construction.
# No division, two loops, just addition.
# April 2009
# Define P(n) to be the nth prime number, e.g.
# P(1) = 2, P(2) = 3, P(3) = 5, ...
# If the state of the first m Modulo objects means
# { self.modList[0].state, self.modList[1].state, ... ,
#?? self.modList[m-1].state },
# then the state of the first m Modulo objects have a period of
# P(1) x P(2) x ... P(m) in N, where N in traditional algorithms
# would be the number being tested for primacy".
# This observation leads to an optimization in
# memory resources, to be implemented in a future version.
class Modulo:
??? isPrime = True
??? 
??? def __init__(self, mod):
??????? self.mod?? = mod - 1
??????? self.state = 0

??? def flip(self):
??????? self.state += 1
?????????????? 
??????? if self.state > self.mod:
??????????? self.state = 0
??????????? Modulo.isPrime = False

class PrimeNumberGen:
??? 
??? def __init__(self):
??????? self.Modulos = [Modulo(2)]
??????? self.n = 2
??? 
??? def step(self):
??????? for i in range(0, len(self.Modulos)):
??????????? self.Modulos[i].flip()
?????????? 
??? def run(self, count):
??????? primeCount = 1
??????? while True:
??????????? Modulo.isPrime = True
??????????? self.step()
??????????? self.n += 1
??????????? if Modulo.isPrime:
??????????????? print(self.n)
??????????????? self.Modulos.append(Modulo(self.n))
??????????????? primeCount += 1
??????????? if primeCount > count:
??????????????? break
app = PrimeNumberGen()
app.run(10000)
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From lists at durin42.com  Tue Apr  7 16:20:54 2009
From: lists at durin42.com (Augie Fackler)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:20:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F06FE9EF-4B0B-432B-8008-EBF1E0FA68A7@durin42.com>

+1 for tomorrow

On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu 
> > wrote:
> Is there a date yet?
>
> If we're going to do it this week I'd like to vote for Wednesday as  
> it will be easier for me to get there than on Thursday. It also  
> makes it easy for people that can't usually make the Thursday  
> meetings. If the group would like to wait until next week then I'd  
> recommend something other than Wednesday as it is the 15th (tax day  
> and my Clojure meetup).
>
> Anyone else have any preferences for dates?
>
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://offbytwo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From pfein at pobox.com  Tue Apr  7 16:39:12 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:39:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>

+many for next week

On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu 
> > wrote:
> Is there a date yet?
>
> If we're going to do it this week I'd like to vote for Wednesday as  
> it will be easier for me to get there than on Thursday. It also  
> makes it easy for people that can't usually make the Thursday  
> meetings. If the group would like to wait until next week then I'd  
> recommend something other than Wednesday as it is the 15th (tax day  
> and my Clojure meetup).
>
> Anyone else have any preferences for dates?
>
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://offbytwo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From rlspelich at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 16:52:09 2009
From: rlspelich at gmail.com (Robert Spelich)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:52:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <303c9ec10904070752sfb870ceg2c2576e7a6c2576e@mail.gmail.com>

Were you planing to have a talk/presenter or was it going to be more of a
social meeting?-Bob Spelich (New on the mailing list)

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> +many for next week
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu
> > wrote:
>
>> Is there a date yet?
>>
>
> If we're going to do it this week I'd like to vote for Wednesday as it will
> be easier for me to get there than on Thursday. It also makes it easy for
> people that can't usually make the Thursday meetings. If the group would
> like to wait until next week then I'd recommend something other than
> Wednesday as it is the 15th (tax day and my Clojure meetup).
>
> Anyone else have any preferences for dates?
>
> --
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://offbytwo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
-Bob
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From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Tue Apr  7 17:24:59 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:24:59 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904070824w6fcbaf9ua64b2b247f9ad5e2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> +many for next week
>

+1 for both this week and next week

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Tue Apr  7 17:26:30 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:26:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <303c9ec10904070752sfb870ceg2c2576e7a6c2576e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
	<303c9ec10904070752sfb870ceg2c2576e7a6c2576e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904070826t432d819bo77323a98773410ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Robert Spelich <rlspelich at gmail.com> wrote:

> Were you planing to have a talk/presenter or was it going to be more of a
> social meeting?-Bob Spelich (New on the mailing list)
>
>
This would be mostly a social meeting.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From bray at sent.com  Tue Apr  7 17:32:22 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:32:22 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] After PyCon Meeting
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904070826t432d819bo77323a98773410ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2E1A38A4-E086-4871-984A-780C9BF6B8A2@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904060859y4383a149yc61928e7360d270a@mail.gmail.com>
	<96523F46-4B96-435E-82FB-5BB8313753BF@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904061046s6fc458a3u41fecc1a31e1d8e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fb45b0b0904061545s2399f7ddpbc07933ce46a5464@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd334d08-2515-4d33-8e4f-909339d465f5@python.org>
	<FEB9E7B9-4909-496B-BCE3-449EA5E06D8D@cs.depaul.edu>
	<383bbcce0904061620p35fab915l7b957982cac3839@mail.gmail.com>
	<F4B3D14A-0AE7-48D2-A2A5-4D0D91B7B6C2@pobox.com>
	<303c9ec10904070752sfb870ceg2c2576e7a6c2576e@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904070826t432d819bo77323a98773410ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A3086DE-4005-4C31-BE78-FE8AE7A22E9D@sent.com>





On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>  
wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Robert Spelich <rlspelich at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> Were you planing to have a talk/presenter or was it going to be more  
> of a social meeting?-Bob Spelich (New on the mailing list)
>
>

Bob, regular meetings will resume on second Thursday of May. This is  
an unusual month because we just has PyCon.  Thanks for asking!

May meeting will be the best one yet!

--Brian
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 04:34:14 2009
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:34:14 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Big thanks from Kirby (Portland, OR) -- long
Message-ID: <f604188c0904071934y455de52ape2235bf2753426c2@mail.gmail.com>

Greeting Chipyers --

I just wanted to express my appreciation for a great Pycon experience.
 Lots of other bloggers saying this was a good one.

I'm the guy from Portland, Oregon who signed on to your list pre
conference in order to propagandize extensively for my workshop,
Python for Teachers.

We had a good meeting and I met some great people, then went on to the
edu-sig BOF and a couple education-related dinners, including one with
O'Reilly's Scott Gray, learned a lot from that guy. [1]

On Sunday, Steve Holden, your PSF chairman, and Dr. Ian Benson, math
expert from the UK (and Tizard Stanford) joined me on the El for a
visit to the Museum of Contemporary Art where we took in the Bucky
Fuller exhibit called Starting with the Universe, which I hope to
revisit before it closes in June (we were kind of rushed, two of us
having planes to catch, praise Allah for those taxis to/from the El
station).[2]

I should re-explain that my "Pythonic Math" courses -- experimental
pilot studies in Portland -- have included a lot of Bucky Fuller right
from the start, and indeed it was in my quest for tools to make
colorful polyhedra for the Web that brought me to Python in the first
place (starting with 1.6 or thereabouts).[3]

Although not front and center in this exhibit, Fuller had a way of
streamlining geometry teaching, where we relate everything back to the
tetrahedron as the primitive beginning, not the cube.  It's a change
in emphasis really, as no pre-existing math is invalidated i.e. it's
all highly backward compatible (except there's this different
perspective).

I realize that's maybe unclear.  I'm reluctant to take up your
bandwidth (hence the notes section). [4]

Hey, on another (related?) topic, what I'm trying to start up within
our local user groups (PPUG) is this "free to the public" maybe once a
month presentation on Python, entertaining and fun.  There might be
some targeted outreach  e.g. to directors of local non-profits, give
'em a feel for FOSS subcultures (we'd contextualize Python within the
larger ecosystem), but it'd be open to anyone (in the spirit of open
source).

Why I'm thinking this'd help geeks, not just the curious public, is
here's a semi-canned gig that'd given different people opportunities
to showcase their teaching and communications skills.  People in the
audience might be like talent scouts i.e. in the market for some
consulting service or whatever, plus you can add it to your resume if
you'd wish, another feather in your cap.  Even if you're personally
booked, you could make referrals.

The user group could even go further and point to more specialized
workshops that weren't necessarily free, with these initial lectures
being more like "orientation" (big picture, overview).

My model for all this is Princeton University Computer Center, which
had a schedule of free talks to the public on a variety of subjects,
including various computer languages.  A lot of students would go, but
you didn't have to be a student or alum.  This was a way for CS
students to develop their presentation skills as well (I wasn't in the
CS department exactly, just lurked a lot, sneaked into Equad to play
with a graphical version of APL on Tektronix terminals, thought that
was way cool (which it was)).

I'll plan to lurk here some more, not take up much bandwidth.  Where I
usually hang out is on edu-sig (one of the Python.org e-lists), been
there for years.  We talk about One Laptop per Child sometimes, lots
of other stuff.  I sound off about my "new kind of geometry" or
whatever.[5]

Feel free to join us.

What I'm trying to make happen in Portland is a way for teachers
already on the job to upgrade their skills through a customized Python
training that's really aimed at recruiting for STEM subjects (science,
technology, engineering, math).  It's not about becoming a CS teacher
or applications developer.  It's about continuing to teach math (for
example) but galvanizing the curriculum with something more fun than
just graphing calculators (blech).

Given the number of teachers who might benefit, I see lots of demand
for these workshops, potentially.  We impart the values of open source
as well, i.e. using the Internet transparently to co-develop lesson
plans, curriculum (what many are doing already, but still too much
enslavement to "one size fits all" textbooks and standardized testing
-- not against testing (we teach TDD after all)).

My thanks to the PSF for allowing myself and the other nominees to
join as members, and to Laura Creighton of Strakt (Open End) for
nominating me.  Her Sweden-based company has been kind and
appreciative towards me over the years, recognizing my efforts and
intentions.  Laura is a good example of what I call a FOSS boss, Steve
Holden another.[6]

And last but not least, congratulations to Andre Roberge, author of
Crunchy and a university president, for taking over management of the
edu-sig page at Python.org, originally developed by me back in cvs
days (pre svn, plus now we're moving to hg).  We came to this decision
during our edu-sig BOF, by easy consensus.

Kirby

PS:  yeah, putting some work into notes 'n stuff because I plan to
link back to this later -- standard practice for me (called
"connecting the dots" [7] -- what hypertext is all about, no?).

[1]  http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2009/03/closing-time.html (my meeting
with Scott)
[2]  http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157315 at N00/sets/72157616066135225/
(my Pycon pictures)
[3]  http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/pymath.html (more on Pythonic Mathematics)
[4]  http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=6669452&tstart=0
(very prolific today, April 7)
[5]  http://www.4dsolutions.net/presentations/p4t_notes.pdf (last page
especially, Akbar font (Simpsons))
[6]  http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=6648859&tstart=0
(re FOSS bosses, XX especially)
[7]  http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2009/04/remembering-vilnius-2007.html
(connecting the dots)

From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  8 05:44:00 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] python question
Message-ID: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10 without breaking things?


      

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 05:45:34 2009
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 22:45:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680904072045w732caef7g1aafc3808ab5c734@mail.gmail.com>

not sure if its the correct thing to do but install 2.6 next to 2.5 then
change the python link to python2.6

Dan

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10
> without breaking things?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  8 05:51:16 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] python question
Message-ID: <45995.71736.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yu mean put it in my usr/local?

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] python question
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 10:45 PM

not sure if its the correct thing to do but install 2.6 next to 2.5 then change the python link to python2.6

Dan

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:



Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10 without breaking things?







_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From chad at glendenin.com  Wed Apr  8 05:52:46 2009
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 22:52:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <191d03ff0904072052k23a92c36s304ddb8596fc5841@mail.gmail.com>

If you're comfortable building from source, you should be able to do
./configure --prefix=/some/path to install someplace like /usr/local
or /opt/python-2.6.1 so that you don't overwrite anything, and then
you can call the new binary directly.

You might need to do something like "sudo apt-get build-dep python" to
pull in the build dependencies.

ccg


On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10 without breaking things?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr  8 06:27:55 2009
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 23:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b654cd2e0904072127o2f217ddci6249070eee992@mail.gmail.com>

Grab the source and do:
./configure
make
sudo make altinstall

That will install it as python2.6, but leave /usr/bin/python as 2.5

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10
> without breaking things?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Ian Bicking  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org
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From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  8 14:03:34 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 05:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] python question
Message-ID: <932304.83091.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Then how do i point it to python 2.6.1

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

From: Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] python question
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 11:27 PM

Grab the source and do:
./configure
make
sudo make altinstall

That will install it as python2.6, but leave /usr/bin/python as 2.5

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:




Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10 without breaking things?







_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
Ian Bicking ?| ?http://blog.ianbicking.org


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Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From hundredpercentjuice at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 14:18:58 2009
From: hundredpercentjuice at gmail.com (JS Irick)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:18:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <932304.83091.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <932304.83091.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19c3441a0904080518s3118ff2fw5f616baf1eb35ed6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Then how do i point it to python 2.6.1

Use
ls -l `which python`

to find the symbolic link pointing to your

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Apr  8 18:28:25 2009
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:28:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <932304.83091.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <932304.83091.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b654cd2e0904080928o2495ddbcv3ee1e341e281900e@mail.gmail.com>

You run python2.6 to get python2.6

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Then how do i point it to python 2.6.1
>
> --- On *Tue, 4/7/09, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] python question
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 11:27 PM
>
>
> Grab the source and do:
> ./configure
> make
> sudo make altinstall
>
> That will install it as python2.6, but leave /usr/bin/python as 2.5
>
>
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From smysorekar at tnc.org  Wed Apr  8 23:40:13 2009
From: smysorekar at tnc.org (Sagar Mysorekar)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:40:13 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Help regarding GIS python code
Message-ID: <8753261C0D3F7845ABA8ACD7D1AF8081012D8642@mail01.TNC.ORG>

Hi Friends:

 

I just joined this community today and already in need of your help. I
was wondering if you guys can help me get started with my following
query please:

 

I have a lake FGDB feature class with ~ 26,000 records. I have census
blocks data (contains housing units) in a point format. I want to do
following:

1.      Select blocks that are within 100 meters (eventually 300 meters
and 500 meters  as well) of EACH lake.

2.      Add a field preferably in the lakes feature class namely:
Urb_in100m (eventually Urb_in300m, Urb_in500m as well) with long integer
type.

3.      For EACH lake, sum all the housing units from census blocks file
that are within 100 meters of that particular lake. Add the sum in the
lakes feature class next to respective lake that it belongs to (Repeat
the procedure for 300 meters and 500 meters).

 

Any guidance and help is appreciated. Just for the record I am a
beginner in Python programming and would want to learn it through this
process.

 

I eagerly look forward to your reply.

 

Thanking you,

 

Sagar

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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Apr  9 03:18:13 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:18:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] No Formal April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CBC4BBE8-9ADE-47B3-81F3-ED1704F93EB5@sent.com>
References: <CBC4BBE8-9ADE-47B3-81F3-ED1704F93EB5@sent.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640904081818t2e4f4bd6kaa0f82035e729445@mail.gmail.com>

I thought today was resis bierstbe day. hi from me and carl and chris and
lester

On Apr 6, 2009 12:41 PM, "Brian Ray" <bray at sent.com> wrote:

** Due to the fact we just hosted PyCon, there will be no formal April
Meeting **

Check the main ChiPy mailing list to see when/where we will be having an
informal get together.

See you in May!
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Thu Apr  9 03:44:39 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:44:39 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] No Formal April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904081818t2e4f4bd6kaa0f82035e729445@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBC4BBE8-9ADE-47B3-81F3-ED1704F93EB5@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904081818t2e4f4bd6kaa0f82035e729445@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904081844q463e81ai91ff8492881c1a3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:18 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> I thought today was resis bierstbe day. hi from me and carl and chris and
> lester
>
I only saw one person in addition to me say they wanted to meet this week so
I figured we're on for next week instead. Are we meeting again next week?

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Apr  9 03:56:04 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:56:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] No Formal April Meeting
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904081844q463e81ai91ff8492881c1a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBC4BBE8-9ADE-47B3-81F3-ED1704F93EB5@sent.com>
	<a68ced640904081818t2e4f4bd6kaa0f82035e729445@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904081844q463e81ai91ff8492881c1a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640904081856i77652ad6x261c8861e3601cca@mail.gmail.com>

yeah sure!

On Apr 8, 2009 8:44 PM, "Cosmin Stejerean" <cosmin at offbytwo.com> wrote:

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:18 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote: > >
I thought today was resi...
I only saw one person in addition to me say they wanted to meet this week so
I figured we're on for next week instead. Are we meeting again next week?

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com


_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net  Thu Apr  9 15:45:13 2009
From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 08:45:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] There once was a cute little GIL...
Message-ID: <11132A51-F4E5-422B-AFC0-BA3C9C163B5F@sbcglobal.net>

... and it kept all of the good little Python programs in line.  Well,  
all until they moved out to the burbs into a shiny new multicore  
subdivision.  Then the GIL ripped off its mask to reveal its true  
identity. "Holy smokes, it's ...."

This message is just a friendly reminder that it's not too late to  
sign up for the "Concurrency Workshop" I'm  running next month in  
Chicago. Learn the exciting conclusion of this story and many others.

- Learn why Python threads run worse on a multicore machine than on a  
single CPU
- Asynchronous I/O.  What is it good for?
- The multiprocessing module--now part of the standard library!
- More than you ever wanted to know about pickles
- Generators and coroutines, oh yes.
- Did I mention ctypes?
- Unlimited coffee and snacks---all day long!

Further details at http://www.dabeaz.com/chicago

Cheers,
Dave



From rlspelich at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 15:54:29 2009
From: rlspelich at gmail.com (Robert Spelich)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 08:54:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] There once was a cute little GIL...
In-Reply-To: <11132A51-F4E5-422B-AFC0-BA3C9C163B5F@sbcglobal.net>
References: <11132A51-F4E5-422B-AFC0-BA3C9C163B5F@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <303c9ec10904090654s42a94240tc3b17179e7346ac2@mail.gmail.com>

Any way to get your new Python book before May 5th?-Bob Spelich

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:45 AM, David Beazley <d-beazley at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> ... and it kept all of the good little Python programs in line.  Well, all
> until they moved out to the burbs into a shiny new multicore subdivision.
>  Then the GIL ripped off its mask to reveal its true identity. "Holy smokes,
> it's ...."
>
> This message is just a friendly reminder that it's not too late to sign up
> for the "Concurrency Workshop" I'm  running next month in Chicago. Learn the
> exciting conclusion of this story and many others.
>
> - Learn why Python threads run worse on a multicore machine than on a
> single CPU
> - Asynchronous I/O.  What is it good for?
> - The multiprocessing module--now part of the standard library!
> - More than you ever wanted to know about pickles
> - Generators and coroutines, oh yes.
> - Did I mention ctypes?
> - Unlimited coffee and snacks---all day long!
>
> Further details at http://www.dabeaz.com/chicago
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
-Bob
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 22:27:19 2009
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 13:27:19 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] There once was a cute little GIL...
In-Reply-To: <11132A51-F4E5-422B-AFC0-BA3C9C163B5F@sbcglobal.net>
References: <11132A51-F4E5-422B-AFC0-BA3C9C163B5F@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <f604188c0904091327m51823c51m1ef7878dfd73f87c@mail.gmail.com>

This looks really interesting and I regret getting off the track I was
on re concurrency as David's talk was right after this one:

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2009/03/patterns-in-python.html

My take on the matter is I hear more geeks saying "leave it to the OS
or other external process management framework and don't make Python
run threads, slim down the snake and just make a lot of 'em" (more
like 'Snakes on a Plane' which admittedly scares people, so better to
counter by thinking of it first, helps the plane fly better).

What I've been advocating re Synovate is just make the snakes compare
notes via async SQL, not Twisted exactly, but similar, make snakes
leave an audit trail, time stamps, basically cues.  Queen dispatcher
with many Worker Bees was my manga code for Patrick.  Gratifying to
learn from Lars of Mozilla that this is sort of how the Mozilla crash
analyzer works on the back end, if I understood aright.

Anyway, here's a picture of a Python on threads maybe (too greedy):

http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2006/09/lunch-on-hawthorne.html
(scroll to bottom)
http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2006/09/snakes-on-plane-movie-review.html
 (...on a Plane).

Hey, I know sometimes you need threads, asynch not always the answer,
just offering some perspective, feel free to shoot it down.

Back to lurking,

Kirby


On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:45 AM, David Beazley <d-beazley at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> ... and it kept all of the good little Python programs in line. ?Well, all
> until they moved out to the burbs into a shiny new multicore subdivision.
> ?Then the GIL ripped off its mask to reveal its true identity. "Holy smokes,
> it's ...."
>
> This message is just a friendly reminder that it's not too late to sign up
> for the "Concurrency Workshop" I'm ?running next month in Chicago. Learn the
> exciting conclusion of this story and many others.
>
> - Learn why Python threads run worse on a multicore machine than on a single
> CPU
> - Asynchronous I/O. ?What is it good for?
> - The multiprocessing module--now part of the standard library!
> - More than you ever wanted to know about pickles
> - Generators and coroutines, oh yes.
> - Did I mention ctypes?
> - Unlimited coffee and snacks---all day long!
>
> Further details at http://www.dabeaz.com/chicago
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Apr 10 23:00:58 2009
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:00:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python question
In-Reply-To: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <588507.8809.qm@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49DFB38A.10903@personnelware.com>

Craig wrote:
> Does anyone know hw i can upgrade my python 2.5.2 to 2.6.1 on ubuntu 8.10 without breaking things?

I would just upgrade to 9.04 when it's out.

carl at dv67:~$ python
Python 2.6.2c1 (release26-maint, Apr  8 2009, 01:03:04)

warning:  if you find something that doesn't work in 2.6, don't change the 
symlink back to 2.5 or apt gets cranky.

Carl K

From joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 23:27:40 2009
From: joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:27:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Ola Bini On the Ioke Language
Message-ID: <e61a59ae0904101427k172ecd4flbe6a9bbe55f47c20@mail.gmail.com>

Thought some of you would be interested...

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - Doors @6pm Talk @6:30
Location - ThoughtWorks, 200 E Randolph St. 25th Floor

Ioke is a new language, an experiment to see how expressive a language can
be. It's a language for the JVM influenced by Io, Self, Smalltalk, Lisp and
Ruby. It supports a prototype based object oriented system, is homoiconic,
supports high level methods and macros and makes it easy to build DSLs and
new abstractions from scratch. The presentation will first talk about the
motivation for a new language, then talk about some of the more interesting
features of Ioke, including the object system, the macro system and java
integration features.

RSVP Here: http://connect.thoughtworks.com/olabini/

Ola Bini is a core JRuby developer and is the author of the book ?Practical
JRuby on Rails'. His technical experience ranges from Java, Ruby and LISP to
several open source projects. He likes implementing languages, writing
regular expression engines, YAML parsers and other similar things that exist
at the border of computer science. Check out Ola's Blog.
http://olabini.com/blog/
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From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Apr 13 20:20:35 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:20:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
Message-ID: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>

Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.

(Clojure meeting on Wednesday)

-- 
sheila

From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Apr 13 20:26:18 2009
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:26:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E383CA.5040804@personnelware.com>

sheila miguez wrote:
> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
> 
> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
> 

I will be there.  maybe even around 3.

Carl K

From joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 22:26:30 2009
From: joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:26:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e61a59ae0904131326i564be194i7bf917f582146fa0@mail.gmail.com>

I'll try to be there.  I have to go to the Scala User Group that night, so
if I do make it, it will be later, closer to 9.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>
> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From g at rrett.us.com  Tue Apr 14 02:35:44 2009
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:35:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <e61a59ae0904131326i564be194i7bf917f582146fa0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3CJZi544f989608c9fd757f93bd, g@rrett.us.com,
	967818107.1081691239669344487.JavaMail.roo>

I'll try to make it. 

Josh, feel free to invite Scala folks -- we can eat their livers and grow strong! 

----- "Josh Cronemeyer" <joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I'll try to be there. I have to go to the Scala User Group that night, so if I do make it, it will be later, closer to 9. 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez < shekay at pobox.com > wrote: 
> 

Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening. 
> 
> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday) 
> 
> -- 
> sheila 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Chicago mailing list 
> Chicago at python.org 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list Chicago at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 
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From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Tue Apr 14 03:27:03 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:27:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>
> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>

I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure meeting
please send me an email so I can get your name on the security list in
advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the security guards
again.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 03:35:14 2009
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:35:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>

I plan to be there

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>  
wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>  
> wrote:
> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>
> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>
> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure  
> meeting please send me an email so I can get your name on the  
> security list in advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun  
> with the security guards again.
>
> -- 
> Cosmin Stejerean
> http://offbytwo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Apr 14 04:38:00 2009
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:38:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>

I plan on being there, and the other place too.

I wonder where I will see Frank?

Carl K

Frank Duncan wrote:
> I plan to be there
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>
>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>
>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure 
>> meeting please send me an email so I can get your name on the security 
>> list in advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the 
>> security guards again.
>>
>> -- 
>> Cosmin Stejerean
>> http://offbytwo.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 02:22:17 2009
From: joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:22:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>

cosmin.  i'm going to be there too.  (this could get sorta recursive, huh)
:)

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>wrote:

> I plan on being there, and the other place too.
>
> I wonder where I will see Frank?
>
> Carl K
>
> Frank Duncan wrote:
>
>> I plan to be there
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>>
>>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>>
>>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure meeting
>>> please send me an email so I can get your name on the security list in
>>> advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the security guards
>>> again.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 22:04:53 2009
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:04:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>

I'm always up for Resi's.  I probably won't be able to show up until
9-ish but maybe sooner.
-Kumar

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Josh Cronemeyer
<joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> cosmin.? i'm going to be there too.? (this could get sorta recursive, huh)
> :)
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I plan on being there, and the other place too.
>>
>> I wonder where I will see Frank?
>>
>> Carl K
>>
>> Frank Duncan wrote:
>>>
>>> I plan to be there
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>>>
>>>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>>>
>>>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure meeting
>>>> please send me an email so I can get your name on the security list in
>>>> advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the security guards
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 04:37:25 2009
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:37:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
Message-ID: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>

Dear gurus,

I'm trying to parse this XML file that has an escaped hex sequence of
<realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xC3;&#xA4;ck</realname> -- in other words,
after parsing with lxml, u'Jesper Dahlb\xc3\xa4ck'.  I know this is
supposed to be an a with an umlaut, Jesper Dahlb?ck.  BUT shouldn't
that be <realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xE4;ck</realname> ?? that is, hex e4 /
decimal 228 / a with umlaut (http://www.tony-franks.co.uk/UTF-8.htm ).
 Then again, the more I think about it, I have no idea what encoding
these escaped XML byte sequences are supposed to be in.  The xml file
of course doesn't specify an encoding.

Or, is this some composite format that is trying to say a + umlaut?
When I run chardet.detect() on the byte string it tells me EUC-KR
(Korean) but that doesn't seem right.

Kumar

From varmaa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 04:43:45 2009
From: varmaa at gmail.com (Atul Varma)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:43:45 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361b27370904151943v1c6ceaa7xc5b94a76904563f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>wrote:

> Or, is this some composite format that is trying to say a + umlaut?
> When I run chardet.detect() on the byte string it tells me EUC-KR
> (Korean) but that doesn't seem right.
>

Oh yeah!  That's totally a viable way of specifying diacritics or whatever
they're called...

It's explained in the 'unicodedata' module docs:

"""
The Unicode standard defines various normalization forms of a Unicode
string, based on the definition of canonical equivalence and compatibility
equivalence. In Unicode, several characters can be expressed in various way.
For example, the character U+00C7 (LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA) can
also be expressed as the sequence U+0327 (COMBINING CEDILLA) U+0043 (LATIN
CAPITAL LETTER C).

For each character, there are two normal forms: normal form C and normal
form D. Normal form D (NFD) is also known as canonical decomposition, and
translates each character into its decomposed form. Normal form C (NFC)
first applies a canonical decomposition, then composes pre-combined
characters again.
"""

The unicodedata module seems to have all kinds of functions for normalizing
the data:

  http://docs.python.org/library/unicodedata.html

Hope that helps.

- Atul
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From asl2 at pobox.com  Thu Apr 16 05:41:40 2009
From: asl2 at pobox.com (Aaron Lav)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:41:40 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 09:37:25PM -0500, Kumar McMillan wrote:
> Dear gurus,
> 
> I'm trying to parse this XML file that has an escaped hex sequence of
> <realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xC3;&#xA4;ck</realname> -- in other words,
> after parsing with lxml, u'Jesper Dahlb\xc3\xa4ck'.  I know this is
> supposed to be an a with an umlaut, Jesper Dahlb?ck.  BUT shouldn't
> that be <realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xE4;ck</realname> ?? that is, hex e4 /

Yes, it should be &#E4;.  The string you're seeing is the result of
character-reference-encoding the utf-8 encoding of that
('\xc3\xa4'.decode('utf-8') is u'\xe4').

They're doing the wrong thing, since character references are supposed
to be the value of the unicode code point (in this case, 0xe4), see
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-CharRef, not an encoded version of
some byte string which represents the code point in some
transformation format.  (This is a little subtle if you're working in
UTF-16 and you have surrogates: you need to decode them before
character-reference-encoding.)


>  Then again, the more I think about it, I have no idea what encoding
> these escaped XML byte sequences are supposed to be in.  The xml file
> of course doesn't specify an encoding.

If it doesn't specify an encoding, then it ought to be utf-8, in the
absence of an HTTP / other encoding declaration.  (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#NT-EncodingDecl)

See http://intertwingly.net/slides/2005/etcon/72.html for some discussion
of what happens when the encoding declarations conflict.  

> Or, is this some composite format that is trying to say a + umlaut?

You're thinking of "Combining Diacritical Marks", http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0300.pdf (the umlaut is at 0x308).

If you can persuade the person who's generating the XML to do
character reference encoding before UTF-8 encoding, then that would be
the best thing.  Otherwise (eg if they're storing utf-8 as bytes and
building xml via string manipulation), you'll have to add some hackish
preprocessing or postprocessing.

     Aaron "u'\u05e9'" Lav (asl2 at pobox.com)

From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Apr 16 16:16:12 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:16:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>

what times are ppls getting there?

--Pete

Sent from my desk.

On Apr 15, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:

> I'm always up for Resi's.  I probably won't be able to show up until
> 9-ish but maybe sooner.
> -Kumar
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Josh Cronemeyer
> <joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> cosmin.  i'm going to be there too.  (this could get sorta  
>> recursive, huh)
>> :)
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Carl Karsten  
>> <carl at personnelware.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I plan on being there, and the other place too.
>>>
>>> I wonder where I will see Frank?
>>>
>>> Carl K
>>>
>>> Frank Duncan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I plan to be there
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez  
>>>>> <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure  
>>>>> meeting
>>>>> please send me an email so I can get your name on the security  
>>>>> list in
>>>>> advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the  
>>>>> security guards
>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From pfein at pobox.com  Thu Apr 16 16:28:42 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:28:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>
Message-ID: <5D21A6EB-107F-4862-8B97-2D3F9DAAD710@pobox.com>

On Apr 15, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Aaron Lav wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 09:37:25PM -0500, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>> Dear gurus,

<more than you ever wanted to know about xml & encoding>

> you'll have to add some hackish preprocessing or postprocessing.

Seems like this is a common enough problem... a  
dear_diety_please_fix_this_broken_xml(..) OSS library would have made  
for a good (though perhaps unsexy) Pycon sprint.  Maybe next  year...   
unless we start sprinting at Chipy. ;-P

--Pete

From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 17:45:25 2009
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:45:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <5D21A6EB-107F-4862-8B97-2D3F9DAAD710@pobox.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>
	<5D21A6EB-107F-4862-8B97-2D3F9DAAD710@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0904160845q1a54f981ib89db78c29064b82@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Aaron Lav wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 09:37:25PM -0500, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear gurus,
>
> <more than you ever wanted to know about xml & encoding>

thanks Aaron!  that's exactly what they did: char ref encoded a utf-8
bytestream instead of a Unicode stream.

>
>> you'll have to add some hackish preprocessing or postprocessing.
>
> Seems like this is a common enough problem... a
> dear_diety_please_fix_this_broken_xml(..) OSS library would have made for a
> good (though perhaps unsexy) Pycon sprint. ?Maybe next ?year... ?unless we
> start sprinting at Chipy. ;-P

eh, I *hope* no one else has to work around this kind of problem.  I
don't even know how to detect it.  Since I know it's happening, I did
cobble up a wrapper around the file object that has a custom read
method; it reads incrementally to make sure it has all the char ref
byte strings, decodes from utf-8, then char ref encodes *again* using
the proper code points, and returns the chunk.  Seems to work from
unit tests so far but will probably be very slow.  The xml file is
around 300MB.

K

>
> --Pete
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Apr 16 19:58:09 2009
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:58:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com> 
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com> 
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com> 
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com> 
	<E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <b654cd2e0904161058r61fecaa6qecb13032ca5a124@mail.gmail.com>

I'm planning to be there... maybe around 7.

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> what times are ppls getting there?
>
> --Pete
>
> Sent from my desk.
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>
>  I'm always up for Resi's.  I probably won't be able to show up until
>> 9-ish but maybe sooner.
>> -Kumar
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Josh Cronemeyer
>> <joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> cosmin.  i'm going to be there too.  (this could get sorta recursive,
>>> huh)
>>> :)
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I plan on being there, and the other place too.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder where I will see Frank?
>>>>
>>>> Carl K
>>>>
>>>> Frank Duncan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I plan to be there
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure
>>>>>> meeting
>>>>>> please send me an email so I can get your name on the security list in
>>>>>> advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the security
>>>>>> guards
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Ian Bicking  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org
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From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:00:25 2009
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:00:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <b654cd2e0904161058r61fecaa6qecb13032ca5a124@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
	<E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>
	<b654cd2e0904161058r61fecaa6qecb13032ca5a124@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3096c19d0904161100s358177b4u85a183c4fa831156@mail.gmail.com>

Sadly, I can't be there tonight.  I have to pick up my Mom from the airport.

Please get Optimated for me.

Chris

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> I'm planning to be there... maybe around 7.
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> what times are ppls getting there?
>>
>> --Pete
>>
>> Sent from my desk.
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>
>>> I'm always up for Resi's. ?I probably won't be able to show up until
>>> 9-ish but maybe sooner.
>>> -Kumar
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Josh Cronemeyer
>>> <joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> cosmin. ?i'm going to be there too. ?(this could get sorta recursive,
>>>> huh)
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I plan on being there, and the other place too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder where I will see Frank?
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl K
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank Duncan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I plan to be there
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Cosmin Stejerean <cosmin at offbytwo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Resi's Bierstube this Thursday evening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Clojure meeting on Wednesday)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll be there. If anyone is thinking about coming to the Clojure
>>>>>>> meeting
>>>>>>> please send me an email so I can get your name on the security list
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> advance, otherwise we'll have some last minute fun with the security
>>>>>>> guards
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cosmin Stejerean
>>>>>>> http://offbytwo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Bicking ?| ?http://blog.ianbicking.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Thu Apr 16 20:13:45 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:13:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com> 
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com> 
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com> 
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com> 
	<E5281A57-764D-4EB5-BA50-50EDDD690EBC@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904161113x690ba66bte336aace743e7f15@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

> what times are ppls getting there?
>

I think Carl might be there as early as 3, some people as late as 9 or 10.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From wscullin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:26:02 2009
From: wscullin at gmail.com (William Scullin)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:26:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com> 
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com> 
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com> 
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <acff52240904161126h73c71b6dx8cab1a6f87db9c64@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be there at 8.

- William

From ccf3 at mindspring.com  Thu Apr 16 20:47:14 2009
From: ccf3 at mindspring.com (Clyde Forrester)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:47:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E77D32.9000009@mindspring.com>

Kumar McMillan wrote:
> Dear gurus,
>
> I'm trying to parse this XML file that has an escaped hex sequence of
> <realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xC3;&#xA4;ck</realname> -- in other words,
> after parsing with lxml, u'Jesper Dahlb\xc3\xa4ck'.  I know this is
> supposed to be an a with an umlaut, Jesper Dahlb?ck.  BUT shouldn't
> that be <realname>Jesper Dahlb&#xE4;ck</realname> ?? that is, hex e4 /
> decimal 228 / a with umlaut (http://www.tony-franks.co.uk/UTF-8.htm ).
>  Then again, the more I think about it, I have no idea what encoding
> these escaped XML byte sequences are supposed to be in.  The xml file
> of course doesn't specify an encoding.
>
> Or, is this some composite format that is trying to say a + umlaut?
> When I run chardet.detect() on the byte string it tells me EUC-KR
> (Korean) but that doesn't seem right.
>
> Kumar
>   

Others have already responded, but I would like to see if I can make it 
clearer.

The Unicode system or it's predecessor was originally intended to 
express diacritical marks as add-ons, but there was tremendous pressure 
to include the standard set of Latin characters with diacritical marks 
as well. So an a-umlaut can be coded as a single code point, or as an 
'a' and the 'with an umlaut' code points.

The code point for a-umlaut is U+00E4. That is just a code point in 
hypothetical space, and not an encoding of any sort. Encoded in UTF-8 it 
would be c3a4 (hexadecimal) or 195 164 (decimal). Encoded in the HTML 
style it would be &#xe4; or &#228; , using the code point (and not any 
UTF encoding). I have found that my browser is perfectly content 
displaying both the UTF-8 characters and the HTML escaped forms. I don't 
know XML, but I assume that the escape form is the same as HTML.

So it appears that whatever created the data tried to wrap UTF-8 
encoding in an XML escape wrapper, which would be dead wrong, and tends 
to confuse HTML horribly.

It should be &#xe4;

Clyde

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Apr 16 20:54:57 2009
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:54:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904160845q1a54f981ib89db78c29064b82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>
	<5D21A6EB-107F-4862-8B97-2D3F9DAAD710@pobox.com> 
	<b571660a0904160845q1a54f981ib89db78c29064b82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b654cd2e0904161154y311db382qd985e4e1d672d5e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Kumar McMillan
<kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>wrote:

>  > Seems like this is a common enough problem... a
> > dear_diety_please_fix_this_broken_xml(..) OSS library would have made for
> a
> > good (though perhaps unsexy) Pycon sprint.  Maybe next  year...  unless
> we
> > start sprinting at Chipy. ;-P
>
> eh, I *hope* no one else has to work around this kind of problem.  I
> don't even know how to detect it.  Since I know it's happening, I did
> cobble up a wrapper around the file object that has a custom read
> method; it reads incrementally to make sure it has all the char ref
> byte strings, decodes from utf-8, then char ref encodes *again* using
> the proper code points, and returns the chunk.  Seems to work from
> unit tests so far but will probably be very slow.  The xml file is
> around 300MB.
>

Technically it would be possible to create a codec that would handle this
case.  That has all the interface to stream the encoding process (though
it's not actually a terribly easy interface to use).

Then if you can get chardet to return your encoding (using, say, some string
marker that would suggest the problem) then you'd really be set.  Set for
something that should never happen, so maybe not the most productive way to
handle the problem.

There's Unicode Dammit, but I doubt it addresses this particular issue.

-- 
Ian Bicking  |  http://blog.ianbicking.org
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From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 21:36:34 2009
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:36:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] xml encodings, umlauts, ouch
In-Reply-To: <b654cd2e0904161154y311db382qd985e4e1d672d5e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b571660a0904151937m108f8271sbd70d91e0a5a99d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090416034140.GA18671@panix.com>
	<5D21A6EB-107F-4862-8B97-2D3F9DAAD710@pobox.com>
	<b571660a0904160845q1a54f981ib89db78c29064b82@mail.gmail.com>
	<b654cd2e0904161154y311db382qd985e4e1d672d5e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0904161236x57f713f4sf88d4804065e4064@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> > Seems like this is a common enough problem... a
>> > dear_diety_please_fix_this_broken_xml(..) OSS library

For the curious, this is what I wrote on the train to work this
morning (attached).  Doesn't support all types of utf-8 byte encodings
yet but that should be an easy addition.  Otherwise, it's a sad amount
of code and will probably make feeding the parser a lot slower.

I haven't looked into building a parser for lxml that overloads its
own char ref decoding.  I'm sure that would be less code since it
wouldn't have to read incrementally.

>> > would have made
>> > for a
>> > good (though perhaps unsexy) Pycon sprint. ?Maybe next ?year... ?unless
>> > we
>> > start sprinting at Chipy. ;-P
>>
>> eh, I *hope* no one else has to work around this kind of problem. ?I
>> don't even know how to detect it. ?Since I know it's happening, I did
>> cobble up a wrapper around the file object that has a custom read
>> method; it reads incrementally to make sure it has all the char ref
>> byte strings, decodes from utf-8, then char ref encodes *again* using
>> the proper code points, and returns the chunk. ?Seems to work from
>> unit tests so far but will probably be very slow. ?The xml file is
>> around 300MB.
>
> Technically it would be possible to create a codec that would handle this
> case.? That has all the interface to stream the encoding process (though
> it's not actually a terribly easy interface to use).
>
> Then if you can get chardet to return your encoding (using, say, some string
> marker that would suggest the problem) then you'd really be set.? Set for
> something that should never happen, so maybe not the most productive way to
> handle the problem.
>
> There's Unicode Dammit, but I doubt it addresses this particular issue.
>
> --
> Ian Bicking ?| ?http://blog.ianbicking.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jbsnyder at fanplastic.org  Fri Apr 17 01:32:38 2009
From: jbsnyder at fanplastic.org (James Snyder)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:32:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Resi's Bierstube this Thursday
In-Reply-To: <acff52240904161126h73c71b6dx8cab1a6f87db9c64@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a68ced640904131120w7c25bb2enda3953676e327889@mail.gmail.com>
	<383bbcce0904131827p7748c696tdd6f577b66d12d59@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85ABE95-F6D9-4551-83B9-B44B7DF383E8@gmail.com>
	<49E3F708.60609@personnelware.com>
	<e61a59ae0904141722r1b5bba1fg999aa4e7e178716c@mail.gmail.com>
	<b571660a0904151304q76516205jde3eb0ca18b09f54@mail.gmail.com>
	<acff52240904161126h73c71b6dx8cab1a6f87db9c64@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3FIWcc555825344257e066448af,
	jbsnyder@fanplastic.org, 261203F8-66CB-41DB-8F39-C82>

I'll be there 7:30/8-ish.

-jsnyder

--
James Snyder
Biomedical Engineering
Northwestern University
jbsnyder at fanplastic.org
http://fanplastic.org/key.txt
ph: (847) 448-0386

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From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 06:37:04 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] python 2.6.2 Question
Message-ID: <303942.25944.qm@web36507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Does anyone know if i can use  my pcapy and scapy from my python 2.5.2 for   my python 2.6.2? on ubuntu 8.10 or do i have to install a new pcapy


      

From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 15:25:21 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] pcapy question
Message-ID: <538186.26393.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Does anyone know what this error means?



my_init_posix: changing LDSHARED = 'gcc -pthread -shared' to 'g++ -pthread -shared'
running build
running build_ext
building 'pcapy' extension
creating build
creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.6
gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/local/include/python2.6 -c pcapdumper.cc -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.6/pcapdumper.o
gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1



      

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 16:09:27 2009
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:09:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] pcapy question
In-Reply-To: <538186.26393.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <538186.26393.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3db160680904170709g89368ebha783bf6bdb0b53d0@mail.gmail.com>

It means your missing some file that is needed to build that?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Does anyone know what this error means?
>
>
>
> my_init_posix: changing LDSHARED = 'gcc -pthread -shared' to 'g++ -pthread
> -shared'
> running build
> running build_ext
> building 'pcapy' extension
> creating build
> creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.6
> gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall
> -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/local/include/python2.6 -c pcapdumper.cc -o
> build/temp.linux-i686-2.6/pcapdumper.o
> gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 16:17:26 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] pcapy question
Message-ID: <231186.27812.qm@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oh you mean i missing G++

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] pcapy question
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 9:09 AM

It means your missing some file that is needed to build that?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:



Does anyone know what this error means?







my_init_posix: changing LDSHARED = 'gcc -pthread -shared' to 'g++ -pthread -shared'

running build

running build_ext

building 'pcapy' extension

creating build

creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.6

gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/local/include/python2.6 -c pcapdumper.cc -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.6/pcapdumper.o

gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1









_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




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_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Apr 17 17:13:11 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:13:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: [chicago-java] CJUG Meeting Tuesday - Scripting on
	the JVM
In-Reply-To: <585BD9A4-B4B3-4D92-8863-75E0A9479319@gmail.com>
References: <585BD9A4-B4B3-4D92-8863-75E0A9479319@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a68ced640904170813r262fff21k5743804e921274ee@mail.gmail.com>

Next week's java topic is for those of you who are interested in
languages that can run in the jvm.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Breen <jbreen.groups at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Subject: [chicago-java] CJUG Meeting Tuesday - Scripting on the JVM
To: chicago-java at yahoogroups.com


** Chicago Java Users Group/Downtown meets Tuesday, April 21 **

TOPIC: Scripting on the JVM

SPEAKER: Frederick Polgardy

FREE STUFF!
We will raffle off the following:
- one license for Java Rebel, courtesy of Zero Turnaround
- one license for IntelliJ IDEA 8.0, courtesy of JetBrains

WHEN: Tuesday, April 21
6:00 - pizza/networking
6:30 - presentation

WHERE:
Lewis Towers 13th floor ballroom (Beane Hall)
Loyola University of Chicago
820 N Michigan Ave (enter on Pearson)
Chicago, IL 60611
http://tinyurl.com/6c5jx8

RSVP:
Please RSVP so that we can order enough food.
http://www.cjug.org/uger/event/show/46

DESCRIPTION:
Dynamic languages are taking the industry by storm, promising rapid
development, simpler configuration, and fewer lines of code to debug
and maintain. Sun publicly acknowledged this phenomenon with the
release of JDK 6, introducing a unified API for interacting with
scripting languages from Java. This move demonstrates Sun's commitment
to the JVM as a computing platform, as well as to the emerging
development culture of multi-language, multi-paradigm programming.

This talk aims to introduce the two-way street of scripting on the
Java platform. First, we'll look at how to interact with your scripts
from Java in a language-agnostic way, using the javax.script package
found in Java 6. Then, we'll spin around and talk to Java from a few
of the more popular JVM scripting languages: JavaScript (Rhino),
Groovy, JRuby, and Jython. From there you'll have everything you need
to start combining the power and flexibility of scripting with the
reliability, scalability, and robust tooling of the Java platform.

SPEAKER:
Frederick Polgardy is a senior consultant and course instructor with
Obtiva, and has been developing Web and enterprise applications for
more than a decade. Fred is obsessed with programming languages, and
has taken a special interest in multi-language programming on the JVM.
He is a founding member of the Polyglot Programmers of Chicago. When
he isn't hacking on some Ruby, Clojure, or JavaScript, he might be
blogging at sustainablecode.blogspot.com.

MORE INFO:
http://www.cjug.org/Wiki.jsp?page=2009.04.21.downtown

We hope you can join us,
The CJUG Board
www.cjug.org



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
? ?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chicago-java/

<*> Your email settings:
? ?Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
? ?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chicago-java/join
? ?(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
? ?mailto:chicago-java-digest at yahoogroups.com
? ?mailto:chicago-java-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
? ?chicago-java-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
? ?http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




-- 
sheila

From rlspelich at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 17:35:34 2009
From: rlspelich at gmail.com (Robert Spelich)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:35:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>

I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic for
a future meeting presentation.
Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
Thanks.

-- 
-Bob
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From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Apr 17 19:10:31 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:31 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>

+1

I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to  
do a group install.

On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:

> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a  
> topic for a future meeting presentation.
> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
> -Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 19:17:35 2009
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:17:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>

How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !

(kidding)

Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> +1
> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do a
> group install.
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>
> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic for
> a future meeting presentation.
> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> -Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 19:51:03 2009
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <718066.16914.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would totally do a talk on Jython except I am too lazy ;-)

Seriously, what would people want to see in a Jython presentation? I could walk people through an install of the latest beta, but it's a graphical installer so should be pretty trivial. I haven't done much with Jython in ages, so maybe I'm not the one who should take point on this. The only neat thing I've done recently with Jython is figured out how to use WebDriver with it. Which, I guess, involves a small lesson in parsing javadocs to figure out how to use a Java API from Jython.

BTW, this is really not me volunteering to do a talk on Jython (I just don't care enough about this topic to make slides). However, it is me volunteering as a pseudo-expert for a "Teach Me Jython" session.

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:17 PM

How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !

(kidding)

Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> +1
> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do a
> group install.
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>
> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic for
> a future meeting presentation.
> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> -Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Apr 17 20:11:58 2009
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:11:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <718066.16914.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <718066.16914.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49E8C66E.8090002@personnelware.com>

I am even less volunteering, but this might answer "What would people want to see?"

A few months ago I used Jython to debug a java app db connection problem.  It 
was my first use of Jython and there was quite a bit of "I wonder what I do 
next?" going on all the time.

For those that have never ever seen it, it might be nice to run though the 
install of both java, jython, and something like a java db connector and then 
show it being used at the prompt, and then a 'hello world' kinda app that 
actually gets run.

Carl K


Feihong Hsu wrote:
> I would totally do a talk on Jython except I am too lazy ;-)
> 
> Seriously, what would people want to see in a Jython presentation? I could walk people through an install of the latest beta, but it's a graphical installer so should be pretty trivial. I haven't done much with Jython in ages, so maybe I'm not the one who should take point on this. The only neat thing I've done recently with Jython is figured out how to use WebDriver with it. Which, I guess, involves a small lesson in parsing javadocs to figure out how to use a Java API from Jython.
> 
> BTW, this is really not me volunteering to do a talk on Jython (I just don't care enough about this topic to make slides). However, it is me volunteering as a pseudo-expert for a "Teach Me Jython" session.
> 
> --- On Fri, 4/17/09, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
> Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:17 PM
> 
> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
> 
> (kidding)
> 
> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>> +1
>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do a
>> group install.
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>>
>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic for
>> a future meeting presentation.
>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> -Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From swgithen at mtu.edu  Fri Apr 17 20:18:21 2009
From: swgithen at mtu.edu (Steven Githens)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:18:21 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>	<F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
	<b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E8C7ED.2030805@mtu.edu>

Kumar McMillan wrote:
> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
>
> (kidding)
>
>   
Actually, when Google added Java to the supported list of platforms for 
AppEngine they also submitted patches for Jython 2.5 so solve a few 
issues so it could be used. ( I think they might be merged back into 
Jython core by now ).     :)

-Steve

> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>   
>> +1
>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do a
>> group install.
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>>
>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic for
>> a future meeting presentation.
>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> -Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>   


From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Apr 17 21:12:42 2009
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:12:42 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <49E8C7ED.2030805@mtu.edu>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
	<b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E8C7ED.2030805@mtu.edu>
Message-ID: <a68ced640904171212p5f195f2u791d21ed597f0302@mail.gmail.com>

I think it is almost merged back now. I saw it discussed in the
mailing list, but I haven't seen what is going on yet.

very naive question: why would someone want to run java in appengine
and then on top of that use jython?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Steven Githens <swgithen at mtu.edu> wrote:
> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>
>> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
>>
>> (kidding)
>>
>>
>
> Actually, when Google added Java to the supported list of platforms for
> AppEngine they also submitted patches for Jython 2.5 so solve a few issues
> so it could be used. ( I think they might be merged back into Jython core by
> now ). ? ? :)
>
> -Steve
>
>> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do
>>> a
>>> group install.
>>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>>>
>>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic
>>> for
>>> a future meeting presentation.
>>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Bob
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 21:16:37 2009
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <474529.72131.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You could use Jython to implement a plugin system for an app that's largely written in Java. Or maybe you really want to use certain Java libraries but you don't like writing Java code. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any specific examples, though.

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

From: sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 2:12 PM

I think it is almost merged back now. I saw it discussed in the
mailing list, but I haven't seen what is going on yet.

very naive question: why would someone want to run java in appengine
and then on top of that use jython?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Steven Githens <swgithen at mtu.edu> wrote:
> Kumar McMillan wrote:
>>
>> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
>>
>> (kidding)
>>
>>
>
> Actually, when Google added Java to the supported list of platforms for
> AppEngine they also submitted patches for Jython 2.5 so solve a few issues
> so it could be used. ( I think they might be merged back into Jython core by
> now ). ? ? :)
>
> -Steve
>
>> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do
>>> a
>>> group install.
>>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
>>>
>>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic
>>> for
>>> a future meeting presentation.
>>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Bob
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From rlspelich at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 21:31:27 2009
From: rlspelich at gmail.com (Robert Spelich)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:31:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <a68ced640904171212p5f195f2u791d21ed597f0302@mail.gmail.com>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
	<b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E8C7ED.2030805@mtu.edu>
	<a68ced640904171212p5f195f2u791d21ed597f0302@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <303c9ec10904171231q7f6f656dj561740e459b11900@mail.gmail.com>

Python is really the only language I know. I learned it over the past year
to write script's to automate tasks and add functionality to ESRI's ArcGIS
applications. I think Python is  a really cool language and now I am using
it for web dev (non work related).
I do get the impression, perhaps I am wrong, that a lot of Python developers
also know Java or learned Java first. Is that a correct assessment?

I brought up the idea of a Jython talk more out of curiosity to see what
could be done with it. I really wasn't too hip on learning Java but to build
stand alone applications using ESRI's developer framework I have to know
Java or .NET.

-Bob

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> I think it is almost merged back now. I saw it discussed in the
> mailing list, but I haven't seen what is going on yet.
>
> very naive question: why would someone want to run java in appengine
> and then on top of that use jython?
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Steven Githens <swgithen at mtu.edu> wrote:
> > Kumar McMillan wrote:
> >>
> >> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
> >>
> >> (kidding)
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Actually, when Google added Java to the supported list of platforms for
> > AppEngine they also submitted patches for Jython 2.5 so solve a few
> issues
> > so it could be used. ( I think they might be merged back into Jython core
> by
> > now ).     :)
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> +1
> >>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to
> do
> >>> a
> >>> group install.
> >>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a
> topic
> >>> for
> >>> a future meeting presentation.
> >>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> -Bob
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Chicago mailing list
> >>> Chicago at python.org
> >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
-Bob
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From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 21:45:39 2009
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <579435.90487.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It's fairly hard to use Java frameworks without knowing Java (the documentation usually assumes you understand the Java type system among other things). Likewise, .NET frameworks are hard to grok without knowing C#. IMO, if you only want to pick up one of these, then I would recommend learning C#. It's slightly easier to learn than Java and its semantics are closer to Python (it has a "dynamic" type that lets you use duck typing). 

Getting back to the subject of Python, maybe what you really want is "Teach me IronPython". 

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Robert Spelich <rlspelich at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Robert Spelich <rlspelich at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 2:31 PM

Python is really the only language I know. I learned it over the past year to write script's to automate tasks and add functionality to ESRI's ArcGIS applications. I think Python is ?a really cool language and now I am using it for web dev (non work related).

I do get the impression, perhaps I am wrong, that a lot of Python developers also know Java or learned Java first. Is that a correct?assessment?
I brought up the idea of a Jython talk more out of curiosity to see what could be done with it. I really wasn't too hip on learning Java but to build stand alone applications using ESRI's developer framework I have to know Java or .NET.

-Bob

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

I think it is almost merged back now. I saw it discussed in the

mailing list, but I haven't seen what is going on yet.



very naive question: why would someone want to run java in appengine

and then on top of that use jython?



On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Steven Githens <swgithen at mtu.edu> wrote:

> Kumar McMillan wrote:

>>

>> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !

>>

>> (kidding)

>>

>>

>

> Actually, when Google added Java to the supported list of platforms for

> AppEngine they also submitted patches for Jython 2.5 so solve a few issues

> so it could be used. ( I think they might be merged back into Jython core by

> now ). ? ? :)

>

> -Steve

>

>> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.

>>

>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> +1

>>> I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do

>>> a

>>> group install.

>>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:

>>>

>>> I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic

>>> for

>>> a future meeting presentation.

>>> Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.

>>> Thanks.

>>>

>>> --

>>> -Bob

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Chicago mailing list

>>> Chicago at python.org

>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Chicago mailing list

>>> Chicago at python.org

>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Chicago mailing list

>> Chicago at python.org

>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

>>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Chicago mailing list

> Chicago at python.org

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

>







--

sheila

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
-Bob



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From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Apr 17 22:17:43 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:17:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <474529.72131.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <474529.72131.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B713D7EC-5EB7-4546-82EF-2F131963FC1C@pobox.com>

On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> Or maybe you really want to use certain Java libraries but you don't  
> like writing Java code. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any  
> specific examples, though.

That's might interest.
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From tonkinjs at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 17 22:31:55 2009
From: tonkinjs at yahoo.com (Jonathan Tonkin)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] pcapy question
Message-ID: <935355.17450.qm@web111301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



Look's like your missing (or the system can't find) a compiler helper.? Some sugestions here:? 

http://forums.codeblocks.org/index.php?topic=3453.msg27217 



--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] pcapy question
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 9:17 AM

Oh you mean i missing G++

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] pcapy question
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 9:09 AM

It means your missing some file that is needed to build that?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Craig <fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com> wrote:



Does anyone know what this error means?







my_init_posix: changing LDSHARED = 'gcc -pthread -shared' to 'g++ -pthread -shared'

running build

running build_ext

building 'pcapy' extension

creating build

creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.6

gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/local/include/python2.6 -c pcapdumper.cc -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.6/pcapdumper.o

gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory

error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1









_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




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Chicago at python.org
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From pfein at pobox.com  Fri Apr 17 22:49:03 2009
From: pfein at pobox.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:49:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <B713D7EC-5EB7-4546-82EF-2F131963FC1C@pobox.com>
References: <474529.72131.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<B713D7EC-5EB7-4546-82EF-2F131963FC1C@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <412551CF-384B-4057-AF01-2D595E0270BD@pobox.com>

On Apr 17, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Pete wrote:

> On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Feihong Hsu wrote:
>
>> Or maybe you really want to use certain Java libraries but you  
>> don't like writing Java code. Off the top of my head, I can't think  
>> of any specific examples, though.
>
> That's might interest.

Mine too!
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From allanlesage at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 22:49:06 2009
From: allanlesage at gmail.com (Allan LeSage)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:49:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <718066.16914.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <718066.16914.qm@web34803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69ad11e40904171349k4fa7ab4s1d0936e5de8f724b@mail.gmail.com>

My pal Tal has been working on a scripting system for RESTish services that
might be relevant here--it runs on the JVM but provides scripting support
for a lot of other languages, including Python.

http://threecrickets.com/scripturian/

Not that he needs me to volunteer him or anything, but this might make an
interesting talk to accompany a Jython presentation.  Tal's been to a couple
of meetings and is ready to start giving back.

Allan

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  I would totally do a talk on Jython except I am too lazy ;-)
>
> Seriously, what would people want to see in a Jython presentation? I could
> walk people through an install of the latest beta, but it's a graphical
> installer so should be pretty trivial. I haven't done much with Jython in
> ages, so maybe I'm not the one who should take point on this. The only neat
> thing I've done recently with Jython is figured out how to use WebDriver
> with it. Which, I guess, involves a small lesson in parsing javadocs to
> figure out how to use a Java API from Jython.
>
> BTW, this is really not me volunteering to do a talk on Jython (I just
> don't care enough about this topic to make slides). However, it is me
> volunteering as a pseudo-expert for a "Teach Me Jython" session.
>
> --- On *Fri, 4/17/09, Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Kumar McMillan <kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
> Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 12:17 PM
>
>
> How about Running Jython on Google App Engine !
>
> (kidding)
>
> Seriously now, +1 for a talk about Jython.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Pete <pfein at pobox.com<http://mc/compose?to=pfein at pobox.com>>
> wrote:
> > +1
> > I'd love to see some cool things briefly demo'd with it + some time to do
> a
> > group install.
> > On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Robert Spelich wrote:
> >
> > I am new to the mailing list and would like to suggest Jython as a topic
> for
> > a future meeting presentation.
> > Looking forward to meeting you all at the next meeting.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > -Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org <http://mc/compose?to=Chicago at python.org>
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org <http://mc/compose?to=Chicago at python.org>
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org <http://mc/compose?to=Chicago at python.org>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From maney at two14.net  Sat Apr 18 00:14:52 2009
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:14:52 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <303c9ec10904171231q7f6f656dj561740e459b11900@mail.gmail.com>
References: <303c9ec10904170835xd29429cn16c5d7cc6cb36399@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7457BF9-5833-4AF0-B850-C937D8F98657@pobox.com>
	<b571660a0904171017u3bdd40dcsb3f31797a4ce56d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E8C7ED.2030805@mtu.edu>
	<a68ced640904171212p5f195f2u791d21ed597f0302@mail.gmail.com>
	<303c9ec10904171231q7f6f656dj561740e459b11900@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090417221452.GA30362@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 02:31:27PM -0500, Robert Spelich wrote:
> I do get the impression, perhaps I am wrong, that a lot of Python developers
> also know Java or learned Java first. Is that a correct assessment?

I'd guess not, but I may all wrong, as I'm one who never has cared for
Java.  FWIW, the language I'd learned immediately prior to diving into
Python was PHP.  I refer to that as my lost year. :-(

-- 
Q: What do you get when programmers design a language
   while trying to get something else done?
A: PHP  -- Jeremy H. Brown

From hsu.feihong at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 19 18:28:29 2009
From: hsu.feihong at yahoo.com (Feihong Hsu)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <35663.26151.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you went to school for computer science between 1998-ish to 2002-ish, then you likely picked up Java as one of your first programming languages, as many college CS departments switched from Scheme or C/C++ to Java. This effort received a lot of support from the textbook industry, who were eager to sell more overpriced textbooks.

When I ate dinner with Guido, he or someone else at the table made the observation that all the Python programmers he knew had at one time programmed in Perl.

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:

From: Martin Maney <maney at two14.net>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:14 PM

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 02:31:27PM -0500, Robert Spelich wrote:
> I do get the impression, perhaps I am wrong, that a lot of Python developers
> also know Java or learned Java first. Is that a correct assessment?

I'd guess not, but I may all wrong, as I'm one who never has cared for
Java.? FWIW, the language I'd learned immediately prior to diving into
Python was PHP.? I refer to that as my lost year. :-(

-- 
Q: What do you get when programmers design a language
???while trying to get something else done?
A: PHP? -- Jeremy H. Brown
_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



      
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 19:05:17 2009
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:05:17 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <35663.26151.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35663.26151.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c0904191005g2a2550bdrb3c32819da934f1f@mail.gmail.com>

Woulda been someone else besides Guido as he knows me and I came to
Python through Java and APL, with a little Scheme, way more xBase.
Not dissing $Perl in any way, bless it.

Hey, on this topic of Jython, it's like Python on top of an already
well-stocked winery, as the JFC is a truly rich environment.  Take
probable primes.  For RSA encryption you want these gigantic
composites with two prime factors so where do you get those primes to
begin with?  Well, Java has had those for awhile, so maybe your write
something in Python just around this little feature, to cough up
through a generator or something.

Of course none of this is news to a lot of you.  The other news I
guess was how Sun was putting some real focus on the project, in
addition to MySQL, and that Django runs on Jython pretty well so if
you have favorite Java tricks you'd like to keep doing (custom code in
the back office someplace) maybe this is your ticket?

Kirby


On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Feihong Hsu <hsu.feihong at yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you went to school for computer science between 1998-ish to 2002-ish,
> then you likely picked up Java as one of your first programming languages,
> as many college CS departments switched from Scheme or C/C++ to Java. This
> effort received a lot of support from the textbook industry, who were eager
> to sell more overpriced textbooks.
>
> When I ate dinner with Guido, he or someone else at the table made the
> observation that all the Python programmers he knew had at one time
> programmed in Perl.
>
> --- On Fri, 4/17/09, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
>
> From: Martin Maney <maney at two14.net>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Jython
> To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
> Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 5:14 PM
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 02:31:27PM -0500, Robert Spelich wrote:
>> I do get the impression, perhaps I am wrong, that a lot of Python
>> developers
>> also know Java or learned Java first. Is that a correct assessment?
>
> I'd guess not, but I may all wrong, as I'm one who never has cared for
> Java.? FWIW, the language I'd learned immediately prior to diving into
> Python was PHP.? I refer to that as my lost year. :-(
>
> --
> Q: What do you get when programmers design a language
> ???while trying to get something else done?
> A: PHP? -- Jeremy H. Brown
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From maney at two14.net  Sun Apr 19 19:48:27 2009
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:48:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
In-Reply-To: <35663.26151.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35663.26151.qm@web34808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090419174827.GG30362@furrr.two14.net>

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 09:28:29AM -0700, Feihong Hsu wrote:

> If you went to school for computer science between 1998-ish to
> 2002-ish, then you likely picked up Java as one of your first
> programming languages, as many college CS departments switched from
> Scheme or C/C++ to Java. This effort received a lot of support from
> the textbook industry, who were eager to sell more overpriced
> textbooks.

Yeah, I remember those years... from the outside, where there were
these huge numbers of "Dummies for Java" books on the shelves, even
though I knew no one who used the stuff.  Didn't make any sense to me
at the time.

> When I ate dinner with Guido, he or someone else at the table made
> the observation that all the Python programmers he knew had at one
> time programmed in Perl.

There was a time when I probably would have loved Perl, but I was
working in a Xenix 386 environment at the time and if there was a
working port I never found it.  Really could have used a "better AWK"
which was IIRC part of Perl's self-description at the time...

I've picked up a faint familiarity from having to deal with Perl
scripts occasionally, but I've always disliked its line-noise nature
enough that I've preferred to avoid it as much as possible.  So I
wouldn't list it as something I've "programmed in", unlike C, C++,
Smalltalk, Postscript, IITRAN, Fortran, PHP, Python, SQL, ... oh, and
various assemblers, of course, and whatever other minor ones aren't
coming to mind just now.  The cee and pee ones have had been the most
heavily used...

-- 
Some kinds of waste really are disgusting. SUVs, for example,
would arguably be gross even if they ran on a fuel which would
never run out and generated no pollution. SUVs are gross because
they're the solution to a gross problem. (How to make minivans
look more masculine.)  -- Paul Graham


From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Sun Apr 19 22:48:13 2009
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:48:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Jython
Message-ID: <49EB8E0D.8080206@threecrickets.com>

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From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 17:16:25 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:16:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
Message-ID: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>

Hello:

I am trying to tackle an issue I am having with httpd running an app  
under mod_python not being able to kill enough processes (to free  
memory) quickly enough to remain stable.  The server ends up in a  
state where it stops responding.

The server has several Gig's of memory, but the requests it tries to  
process are really huge.  It run's fine if the requests are small.  
Basically, the requests contain XML that is parsed by ElementTree (C  
version) and converts that data to an internal database format.   
Somewhere in the parsing of that XML is where is seems to eat the most  
memory, but writing to the database uses some, as well.

What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what  
should I try?  One thing I thought about doing is repetitively calling  
"free -m"  or "ps .." and parse the results to see if something has to  
be done.  I am ok with the idea of telling the caller they need to try  
again later or try smaller chunks--and I would prefer this than  
sending no response at all.

Should I be looking at my apache configuration?  I tried setting  
StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, and MaxClients to low  
numbers, like 3.  Overall it seems to help but, I am not sure it will  
if I get a really huge request.

Should I run the parser outside of Apache?  I was currious if Python  
by itself (not embedded into Apache) would run more efficently in this  
situation.

Is there some other way to clear memory when running large requests?


If you help me out with a good solution, I will be open to presenting  
(or talking you into presenting) at a future ChiPy meeting on what was  
done to tackle this issue.


Regards,
Brian Ray




From sakamura at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 17:43:28 2009
From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:43:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
Message-ID: <f04b902c0904270843v7bed3ac1m6ffc6c8ef550df5f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm assuming this is a Linux based server.
How much memory does the process acquire before the server stops responding?

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I am trying to tackle an issue I am having with httpd running an app under
> mod_python not being able to kill enough processes (to free memory) quickly
> enough to remain stable.  The server ends up in a state where it stops
> responding.
>
> The server has several Gig's of memory, but the requests it tries to
> process are really huge.  It run's fine if the requests are small.
> Basically, the requests contain XML that is parsed by ElementTree (C
> version) and converts that data to an internal database format.  Somewhere
> in the parsing of that XML is where is seems to eat the most memory, but
> writing to the database uses some, as well.
>
> What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what should I
> try?  One thing I thought about doing is repetitively calling "free -m"  or
> "ps .." and parse the results to see if something has to be done.  I am ok
> with the idea of telling the caller they need to try again later or try
> smaller chunks--and I would prefer this than sending no response at all.
>
> Should I be looking at my apache configuration?  I tried setting
> StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, and MaxClients to low
> numbers, like 3.  Overall it seems to help but, I am not sure it will if I
> get a really huge request.
>
> Should I run the parser outside of Apache?  I was currious if Python by
> itself (not embedded into Apache) would run more efficently in this
> situation.
>
> Is there some other way to clear memory when running large requests?
>
>
> If you help me out with a good solution, I will be open to presenting (or
> talking you into presenting) at a future ChiPy meeting on what was done to
> tackle this issue.
>
>
> Regards,
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Mon Apr 27 18:22:19 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:22:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904270922q770cd9ebm31741aff7a14816c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I am trying to tackle an issue I am having with httpd running an app under
> mod_python not being able to kill enough processes (to free memory) quickly
> enough to remain stable.  The server ends up in a state where it stops
> responding.
>
> The server has several Gig's of memory, but the requests it tries to
> process are really huge.  It run's fine if the requests are small.
> Basically, the requests contain XML that is parsed by ElementTree (C
> version) and converts that data to an internal database format.  Somewhere
> in the parsing of that XML is where is seems to eat the most memory, but
> writing to the database uses some, as well.
>

How huge are the XML documents you are trying to parse?

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 18:37:41 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <383bbcce0904270922q770cd9ebm31741aff7a14816c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
	<383bbcce0904270922q770cd9ebm31741aff7a14816c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5E08703-95FC-4E83-843D-A0092759F55B@sent.com>


On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:

>
> How huge are the XML documents you are trying to parse?


Average size of a record is around 7.3kb.  The testing engineer is  
playing with the idea of process up to 100,000 records at a time.   
that is 714.9 MB.

Although, we have the ability to limit the size. I am thinking that we  
could limit to 20MB, if we want, roughly 2500-3000 records.

Generally, I just want to set reasonable limits and never run into a  
situation where an out of memory occurs. It is also possible that more  
than one request happens at the same time, so simply limiting size is  
not enough.

Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 18:40:58 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:40:58 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <f04b902c0904270843v7bed3ac1m6ffc6c8ef550df5f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
	<f04b902c0904270843v7bed3ac1m6ffc6c8ef550df5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F39211C-678D-4CC8-BCF1-7EA60B1E86E9@sent.com>


On Apr 27, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Ishmael Rufus wrote:

> I'm assuming this is a Linux based server.
>

Yes ,this is CentOS, similar to Red Hat is many ways.

> How much memory does the process acquire before the server stops  
> responding?
>


several Gig.  But we are also running this in debug mode and expect  
better performace on a live server. Plus, we may have this running on  
different servers with different amounts of memory.


Regards,

Brian Ray




From g at rrett.us.com  Mon Apr 27 18:43:17 2009
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:43:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
Message-ID: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3QBhHfde3891a25424974e6c7c3, g@rrett.us.com,
	1013814840.776291240850597420.JavaMail.roo>

----- "Brian Ray" <bray at sent.com> wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> I am trying to tackle an issue I am having with httpd running an app 
> under mod_python not being able to kill enough processes (to free  
> memory) quickly enough to remain stable.  The server ends up in a  
> state where it stops responding.

>From the configuration you're describing, this could be a bunch of
things.

> The server has several Gig's of memory, but the requests it tries to 
> process are really huge.  It run's fine if the requests are small.

What do you mean by big/small? Size of HTTP request bodies?

> What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what  
> should I try?

I suggest first confirming that it's memory. Get the server into the
non responsive state and use 'top' to survey the problematic processes.
By default, top will list the top-CPU consumers first. Use SHIFT + >
(greater than sign) to change the sort order to list the top memory
consumers.

top also shows uptime stats on the top line. Big numbers probably mean
lots of processes running at full tilt. This would cause server slow
down.

For memory, you're interested in RSS (resident) - that's the memory the
process is actually using (as opposed to what's reserved for it).

You can install sysstat and run pidstat to track a particular process,
but I suspect top is all you'll need.

> Should I be looking at my apache configuration?  I tried setting  
> StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, and MaxClients to low 
> numbers, like 3.  Overall it seems to help but, I am not sure it will 
> if I get a really huge request.

I'd recommend running your Python app as a standalone, multithreaded
server (e.g. use CherryPy). This is going to eliminate a huge number
of variables and help you isolate problems more quickly.

Take some time and get into the details of apache + mod_python before
running apps in production. I'd offer some specific suggestions, but
it's been a while since I've used that mod -- and it's got a lot of
configuration options.

You might also look into modwsgi -- this has really matured over the
last couple years. If I use apache, I generally use that mod for Python
apps.

> Is there some other way to clear memory when running large requests?

Verify that you understand what's causing your server to become
unresponsive before getting into application level tweaks. If it is
indeed memory, first check for leaks (in Python, best case is global
state including static/class variables, caches that aren't being
attended to, etc.) You'll see this right away if you run as a standalone
app -- you're process will keep gobbling memory (use top to watch) and
the server will eventually start swapping.

If it's simply that cElementTree is keeping huge structures in memory
and you're getting too many concurrent requests for your RAM, move to
a SAX style API (state machine).

Garrett

From sakamura at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 18:44:13 2009
From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:44:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <9F39211C-678D-4CC8-BCF1-7EA60B1E86E9@sent.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
	<f04b902c0904270843v7bed3ac1m6ffc6c8ef550df5f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9F39211C-678D-4CC8-BCF1-7EA60B1E86E9@sent.com>
Message-ID: <f04b902c0904270944s45c27da4yc0f0a1dffc92cce3@mail.gmail.com>

Which version of mod_python, apache and CentOS?

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 27, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Ishmael Rufus wrote:
>
>  I'm assuming this is a Linux based server.
>>
>>
> Yes ,this is CentOS, similar to Red Hat is many ways.
>
>  How much memory does the process acquire before the server stops
>> responding?
>>
>>
>
> several Gig.  But we are also running this in debug mode and expect better
> performace on a live server. Plus, we may have this running on different
> servers with different amounts of memory.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian Ray
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 27 18:51:20 2009
From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:51:20 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16479.1240850648.11745.chicago@python.org>
References: <mailman.16479.1240850648.11745.chicago@python.org>
Message-ID: <99AA7E5B-ED18-4C3A-A2C8-D203F8AB4CD6@sbcglobal.net>

>
>
> If it's simply that cElementTree is keeping huge structures in memory
> and you're getting too many concurrent requests for your RAM, move to
> a SAX style API (state machine).
>

Also look at the ElementTree.iterparse() function.  If you use that in  
a clever way, you get all of the benefit of ElementTree plus the  
memory savings of SAX (basically you can iteratively rip through XML  
data and throw away the parts you're done with as you  go).

Cheers,
Dave


From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 18:52:30 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:52:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <f04b902c0904270944s45c27da4yc0f0a1dffc92cce3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com>
	<f04b902c0904270843v7bed3ac1m6ffc6c8ef550df5f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9F39211C-678D-4CC8-BCF1-7EA60B1E86E9@sent.com>
	<f04b902c0904270944s45c27da4yc0f0a1dffc92cce3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75BC42DE-011B-4091-9760-AD0D471B097E@sent.com>


On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:44 AM, Ishmael Rufus wrote:

> Which version of mod_python, apache and CentOS?
>

mod_python:  3.3.1
apache: 2.2.3
CentOs: 5.3 (Final)


Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 19:02:35 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:02:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3QBhHfde3891a25424974e6c7c3, g@rrett.us.com,
	1013814840.776291240850597420.JavaMail.roo>
References: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3QBhHfde3891a25424974e6c7c3, g@rrett.us.com,
	1013814840.776291240850597420.JavaMail.roo>
Message-ID: <F497A8B2-8121-473A-A17F-15817632A4EA@sent.com>


On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Garrett Smith wrote:

>
>
>> The server has several Gig's of memory, but the requests it tries to
>> process are really huge.  It run's fine if the requests are small.
>
> What do you mean by big/small? Size of HTTP request bodies?
>

That is correct, the size of the HTTP request bodies.


>> What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what
>> should I try?
>
> I suggest first confirming that it's memory. Get the server into the
> non responsive state and use 'top' to survey the problematic  
> processes.
> By default, top will list the top-CPU consumers first. Use SHIFT + >
> (greater than sign) to change the sort order to list the top memory
> consumers.
>

I see from the "var/log/messages" it is killing httpd when it can.


> top also shows uptime stats on the top line. Big numbers probably mean
> lots of processes running at full tilt. This would cause server slow
> down.
>
> For memory, you're interested in RSS (resident) - that's the memory  
> the
> process is actually using (as opposed to what's reserved for it).
>
> You can install sysstat and run pidstat to track a particular process,
> but I suspect top is all you'll need.

I wonder if I can run these from the process itself to help  monitor  
the situation.


>
>
>> Should I be looking at my apache configuration?  I tried setting
>> StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, and MaxClients to low
>> numbers, like 3.  Overall it seems to help but, I am not sure it will
>> if I get a really huge request.
>
> I'd recommend running your Python app as a standalone, multithreaded
> server (e.g. use CherryPy). This is going to eliminate a huge number
> of variables and help you isolate problems more quickly.
>
> Take some time and get into the details of apache + mod_python before
> running apps in production. I'd offer some specific suggestions, but
> it's been a while since I've used that mod -- and it's got a lot of
> configuration options.
>
> You might also look into modwsgi -- this has really matured over the
> last couple years. If I use apache, I generally use that mod for  
> Python
> apps.


I am ok with running differently; although, generally Apache is  
working well for us on situations where we have sites that get a lot  
of traffic. I would want to use two things at once, perhaps or simply  
run a separate process of python for each request.

>
>
>> Is there some other way to clear memory when running large requests?
>
> Verify that you understand what's causing your server to become
> unresponsive before getting into application level tweaks. If it is
> indeed memory, first check for leaks (in Python, best case is global
> state including static/class variables, caches that aren't being
> attended to, etc.) You'll see this right away if you run as a  
> standalone
> app -- you're process will keep gobbling memory (use top to watch) and
> the server will eventually start swapping.
>

What methods work best for finding leaks. Of course the app consumed  
more and more memory while it is parsing.  Are there any tools out  
there you would recommend to check for leaks.

> If it's simply that cElementTree is keeping huge structures in memory
> and you're getting too many concurrent requests for your RAM, move to
> a SAX style API (state machine).


Do you have any good SAX style API you would recommend?


Thanks,   Brian Ray




From bray at sent.com  Mon Apr 27 19:04:30 2009
From: bray at sent.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:04:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <99AA7E5B-ED18-4C3A-A2C8-D203F8AB4CD6@sbcglobal.net>
References: <mailman.16479.1240850648.11745.chicago@python.org>
	<99AA7E5B-ED18-4C3A-A2C8-D203F8AB4CD6@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3E1141A9-C620-47CF-99C7-1E7B6936306A@sent.com>


On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:51 AM, David Beazley wrote:

>>
>> If it's simply that cElementTree is keeping huge structures in memory
>> and you're getting too many concurrent requests for your RAM, move to
>> a SAX style API (state machine).
>>
>
> Also look at the ElementTree.iterparse() function.  If you use that  
> in a clever way, you get all of the benefit of ElementTree plus the  
> memory savings of SAX (basically you can iteratively rip through XML  
> data and throw away the parts you're done with as you  go).


I will take a look at that.  I wonder how would be best to prove or  
dis-prove improvement's once I try that.

Thanks, Brian Ray




From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 27 19:09:43 2009
From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:09:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <3E1141A9-C620-47CF-99C7-1E7B6936306A@sent.com>
References: <mailman.16479.1240850648.11745.chicago@python.org>
	<99AA7E5B-ED18-4C3A-A2C8-D203F8AB4CD6@sbcglobal.net>
	<3E1141A9-C620-47CF-99C7-1E7B6936306A@sent.com>
Message-ID: <480F3AB2-94D6-4861-A0E6-BE1B4A9B8962@sbcglobal.net>

Here's the shell of code that uses iterparse and saves memory

p = iterparse("somedoc.xml",('start','end'))

# Look for the parent node
for event,elem in p:
	if event == 'start' and elem.tag == 'parent':
               parent = elem
               break

# Rip through children and discard as processed
for event,elem in p:
        if event == 'end' and elem.tag == 'child':
                # Do normal element tree processing on elem
                ...
                # Throw the child away
               parent.removeChild(elem)

The key part is that last statement (removing children from the parse  
tree as you're done with them).

Cheers,
Dave

On Apr 27, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Brian Ray wrote:

>
> On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:51 AM, David Beazley wrote:
>
>>>
>>> If it's simply that cElementTree is keeping huge structures in  
>>> memory
>>> and you're getting too many concurrent requests for your RAM, move  
>>> to
>>> a SAX style API (state machine).
>>>
>>
>> Also look at the ElementTree.iterparse() function.  If you use that  
>> in a clever way, you get all of the benefit of ElementTree plus the  
>> memory savings of SAX (basically you can iteratively rip through  
>> XML data and throw away the parts you're done with as you  go).
>
>
> I will take a look at that.  I wonder how would be best to prove or  
> dis-prove improvement's once I try that.
>
> Thanks, Brian Ray
>
>
>


From g at rrett.us.com  Mon Apr 27 19:23:19 2009
From: g at rrett.us.com (Garrett Smith)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:23:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <350034183.793121240852429730.JavaMail.root@mail-3.01.com>
Message-ID: <EMEWEMEW2_DELIMl3QCNJbc2002c583b94b5b3a0343, g@rrett.us.com,
	1386689663.797011240852999062.JavaMail.roo>


----- "Brian Ray" <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>>> What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what
>>> should I try?
>>
>> I suggest first confirming that it's memory. Get the server into the
>> non responsive state and use 'top' to survey the problematic  
>> processes.
>
> I see from the "var/log/messages" it is killing httpd when it can.

Huh?

Homework: how much resident memory is being consumed before the process
is killed? It's got to be a number :)

If it is actually memory, the rest I think will be easy. Look for the
code that loads the content from the http request. Replace the actual
content with fake data that's very small and see if the problem goes
away.

Then figure out how to parse and handle that payload more efficiently.
Dave's suggestion sounds perfect, if indeed that's your problem.

As far as leaks, confirm it first. Watch resident RAM (see homework
above) over many requests. If it grows and grows, you've got a leak.

I haven't used profiling tools to track down leaks in Python -- I
generally use an approach of "where's a likely source" and start
commenting things out and retest. Not the highest tech approach, but it
generally works. I'm open to a better way though, if anyone has
suggestions :)

From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 27 20:29:02 2009
From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:29:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Python Training - May 11-15, 2009
Message-ID: <CC608C4D-1DCC-442D-86FA-A238317FF7A2@sbcglobal.net>

Please forgive the commercial interruption, but I just wanted to let  
everyone
know that this is the last week to register for the Python classes I'm  
running
in Chicago next month.   I'm pretty excited about these courses so  
hopefully
I'll see you there.  Announcement below.

Cheers,
Dave


		    Python Training Opportunities
			 In Downtown Chicago
			   May 11-15, 2009

		    http://www.dabeaz.com/chicago

Introduction to Python, May 11-13, 2009
---------------------------------------
A comprehensive tour of the Python programming language and its most
essential library modules. Even if you've already been programming
Python, this class will fill in details, give you new insight, and
teach you practical techniques that you can take home and apply to
your own projects.

Python Concurrency Workshop, May 14-15, 2009
--------------------------------------------
A one-of-a-kind workshop that covers everything you ever wanted to
know about concurrent programming in Python.  Topics include threads,
the new multiprocessing library, asynchronous I/O, coroutines, C
extensions, and more.  For good measure, the class will also touch
upon other advanced topics including decorators, metaclasses, ctypes,
and context-managers.  Even if you're not writing concurrent programs,
you'll walk away with new ideas on how to solve tricky programming
problems and see some of Python's newest features in action.

Further details including registration information is at:

		    http://www.dabeaz.com/chicago

Course include breakfast, lunch, and coffee--lots of coffee!



From cosmin at offbytwo.com  Mon Apr 27 20:31:53 2009
From: cosmin at offbytwo.com (Cosmin Stejerean)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:31:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <B5E08703-95FC-4E83-843D-A0092759F55B@sent.com>
References: <2FEA80A9-6E3A-4C9D-B645-FDE1CC59BC94@sent.com> 
	<383bbcce0904270922q770cd9ebm31741aff7a14816c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<B5E08703-95FC-4E83-843D-A0092759F55B@sent.com>
Message-ID: <383bbcce0904271131j670df143p29b10b92be30124a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Brian Ray <bray at sent.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
>
>
>> How huge are the XML documents you are trying to parse?
>>
>
>
> Average size of a record is around 7.3kb.  The testing engineer is playing
> with the idea of process up to 100,000 records at a time.  that is 714.9 MB.
>

If you're going to handle arbitrarily sized XML documents that contain
independent data records you should definitely use SAX or iterparse from
cElementTree. Also make sure you don't keep the string representation of the
XML document in memory all at once nor the resulting records you are going
to insert into the database.

-- 
Cosmin Stejerean
http://offbytwo.com
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From maney at two14.net  Tue Apr 28 01:13:43 2009
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:13:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Out of Memory: Killed Process: on CentOS
In-Reply-To: <F497A8B2-8121-473A-A17F-15817632A4EA@sent.com>
References: <F497A8B2-8121-473A-A17F-15817632A4EA@sent.com>
Message-ID: <20090427231343.GA9051@furrr.two14.net>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:02:35PM -0500, Brian Ray wrote:
>>> What is the best ways to manage this scenario?  Specifically, what
>>> should I try?

My first thought was to ask if there's actually a business need to
process such huge piles of data in one request, since that is surely
what's getting you into trouble; if not, then the simple solution to
these headaches might be to stop banging your head against that wall. 
The headaches are exasperated by mod_python, since that means that
every apache worker process may eventually become bloated by having the
embedded Python interpreter using gobs of memory, which, according to
everything I've read and all my experience, never goes away. It also
passed through my mind that from what you imply about the number of
concurrent requests of this type that you need to handle it might help
to run a separate process (fastcgi, ... wsgi), as that might result in
less processes with bloated memory spaces hanging about.  But since I
didn't stop reading even then...

> I am ok with running differently; although, generally Apache is working 
> well for us on situations where we have sites that get a lot of traffic. 
> I would want to use two things at once, perhaps or simply run a separate 
> process of python for each request.

Brilliant, you've answered your own question here!

>>> Is there some other way to clear memory when running large requests?

Right, you want to run these beasts as plain old CGI.  It's a perfect
fit - relatively infrequent, huge, requests, so the "horrid" overhead
of starting up a process to handle each one will be barely visible, and
having the process die at the end will free up the sometimes huge VM
demands.  You could still get in trouble if there are enough concurrent
huge requests, but... wait, let me tie off that other loose end.

> What methods work best for finding leaks. Of course the app consumed  
> more and more memory while it is parsing.  Are there any tools out there 
> you would recommend to check for leaks.

Killing the process cures memory leaks.  Assuming there are actually
any leaks, as opposed to just a huge peak demand that then sticks
around because the Python VM doesn't free memory back to the OS.

> Do you have any good SAX style API you would recommend?

That's a great idea too, and I think it also would encourage you to run
these jobs as CGI.  Unless I misremember - quite possible - the CGI job
gets the body of the request on its stdin, and I think it's actually
wired to the socket, so if you can move to a more incremental parse &
process those huge requests won't clutter up memory (whether being
bufferred, ouch, or just from having passed through on their way to and
from disk).

Use CGI because it has less overhead!  /me ROFLs contrarianly...

-- 
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke


From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 03:54:12 2009
From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:54:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Idiomatic Python
Message-ID: <3096c19d0904271854n679fd6d9r5986c8d61b854872@mail.gmail.com>

I go back to this an awful lot,
http://python.net/~goodger/projects/pycon/2007/idiomatic/handout.html

If we're ever pressed for a topic, it would be interesting to go
through it as a group, or maybe in small "study" groups.  I'm also
interested in new idioms, or in ways in which Python3 is changing the
above.

Chris

From joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 20:37:12 2009
From: joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:37:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Ola Bini On the Ioke Language
In-Reply-To: <e61a59ae0904101427k172ecd4flbe6a9bbe55f47c20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e61a59ae0904101427k172ecd4flbe6a9bbe55f47c20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e61a59ae0904301137m78ca81d3m9e50debb5aa9e9f4@mail.gmail.com>

Important Update!!!

Due to a scheduling conflict with the Chicago ACM's June presentation, the
location of Ola's talk has changed.  The ACM and ThoughtWorks are joining
together for a joint presentation.
http://www.chicagoacm.org/

Here is the agenda:
*Ioke*
Speaker: Ola Bini of Thoughtworks

*Firewalls*
Speaker: Stephan V Bechtolsheim

June 10th
5:30 PM Buffet and Social Hour
6:30 PM Presentations

Roosevelt University, downtown Chicago
430 S Michigan Ave, Chicago, IL 60605

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Josh Cronemeyer <joshuacronemeyer at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Thought some of you would be interested...
>
> Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - Doors @6pm Talk @6:30
> Location - ThoughtWorks, 200 E Randolph St. 25th Floor
>
> Ioke is a new language, an experiment to see how expressive a language can
> be. It's a language for the JVM influenced by Io, Self, Smalltalk, Lisp and
> Ruby. It supports a prototype based object oriented system, is homoiconic,
> supports high level methods and macros and makes it easy to build DSLs and
> new abstractions from scratch. The presentation will first talk about the
> motivation for a new language, then talk about some of the more interesting
> features of Ioke, including the object system, the macro system and java
> integration features.
>
> RSVP Here: http://connect.thoughtworks.com/olabini/
>
> Ola Bini is a core JRuby developer and is the author of the book ?Practical
> JRuby on Rails'. His technical experience ranges from Java, Ruby and LISP to
> several open source projects. He likes implementing languages, writing
> regular expression engines, YAML parsers and other similar things that exist
> at the border of computer science. Check out Ola's Blog.
> http://olabini.com/blog/
>
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