From paul at paulmayassociates.com  Wed Sep  1 02:52:22 2010
From: paul at paulmayassociates.com (Paul May)
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 0:52:22 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] PYTHON Software Development positions - Deerfield
Message-ID: <668202869446802@127.0.0.1:NOSSL>

Hey hey

I'm still looking for python developers. 
Anyone want to raise their hand????

Call me or send me a resume. 
Great company to work for.....

Python Developers

http://tinyurl.com/2cog2tl

Who knows someone????
Thx for the help.

Paul

v 708.479.1111 
c 312.925.1294
Paul May & Associates (PMA)
paul at paulmayassociates.com 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates    
http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc 

(The following links were included with this email:)
http://tinyurl.com/2cog2tl

mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc



(The following links were included with this email:)
http://tinyurl.com/2cog2tl

mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc


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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Sep  3 16:50:25 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:50:25 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone started to put some thought into next Thursday's meeting?  Carl,
are you back?

I have a feeling this is going to be a really great meeting.

--Brian
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Sep  3 16:54:55 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:54:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone started to put some thought into next Thursday's meeting?? Carl,
> are you back?

Carl is at djangocon next week.

-- 
sheila

From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Sep  3 18:18:30 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:18:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik5f3vYfTVD_km9YvOL_HaqWafkVOhUwYiZTDNr@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:54 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone started to put some thought into next Thursday's meeting?
> Carl,
> > are you back?
>
> Carl is at djangocon next week.
>
>
OK. Who has something they want to talk about :) ?



-- 

Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717
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From pehr at pehr.net  Fri Sep  3 18:22:07 2010
From: pehr at pehr.net (Pehr Anderson)
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:22:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik5f3vYfTVD_km9YvOL_HaqWafkVOhUwYiZTDNr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik5f3vYfTVD_km9YvOL_HaqWafkVOhUwYiZTDNr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimkG7-jeCECK9d4LaVJR8gn7TCJjgYDUt6G6HNn@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone tracking the Swift OpenStack release?
It seems pretty exciting to have a 100 Petabyte class storage tool
with Python / Eventlet at the core.

      --pehr


On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:54 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone started to put some thought into next Thursday's meeting?
>> > Carl,
>> > are you back?
>>
>> Carl is at djangocon next week.
>>
>
> OK. Who has something they want to talk about :) ?
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Ray
> (773) 669-7717
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
Pehr Anderson
VP Platform Technology - http://HarQen.com - 414-755-1962
cell 414-433-4982

From svbechtolsheim at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  4 12:17:45 2010
From: svbechtolsheim at yahoo.com (Stephan V Bechtolsheim)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 03:17:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Broken link on http://www.chipy.org/reviews
Message-ID: <930899.33605.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The link under "Brian Ray wrote a review of Producing Open Source Software"
    (http://brianray.chipy.org//Book%20Reviews/ProducingOSS.html)
is invalid.

StvB
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Sat Sep  4 14:39:27 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 07:39:27 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Broken link on http://www.chipy.org/reviews
In-Reply-To: <930899.33605.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <930899.33605.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimmgfseFvLoKEmpW5nyTGzKtp-97DGNsgMJ0zOL@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Stephan V Bechtolsheim
<svbechtolsheim at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The link under "Brian Ray wrote a review of Producing Open Source Software"
> ??? (http://brianray.chipy.org//Book%20Reviews/ProducingOSS.html)
> is invalid.
>

Thanks, I restored that review on Producing OSS I wrote in 2005 on
Karl's book.

Funny story   .... for a while, when we were a smaller group we had
our meeting in the Monadnock building.  One of our members was hanging
out in the coffee shop on the first floor and was spotted by Brian
Fitzpatrick (fitz) because he was wearing a Python shirt.  Brian,
Karl, and IIRC Ben, all worked in the Monadnock working on the
Subversion Project for CollabNet.  Fitz soon cvs2svn and stated,
"cvs2svn is the most difficult piece of code I've ever written--I'm
going to write a paper for CodeCon next year about it called "Making
Apples from Applesauce." That was the best meeting to date.

I believe all three went to work at Google.  Ben and Fitz have been
pretty visible in the ask the engineer
http://www.google.com/search?q=google+ben+and+fitz&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=eHD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=OzyCTOmLPIGynAfG2O2bAQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CB8QqwQwAQ
 Since I think Karl went to work for Oreilly
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1438

I think book reviews and the ChiPy support always helps. You see, that
is because we are the best user group ever.

Cheers, Brian Ray

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  7 16:47:29 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 09:47:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimkG7-jeCECK9d4LaVJR8gn7TCJjgYDUt6G6HNn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik5f3vYfTVD_km9YvOL_HaqWafkVOhUwYiZTDNr@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimkG7-jeCECK9d4LaVJR8gn7TCJjgYDUt6G6HNn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimQZ6oitWPddqUcarJNAQc81m3owdh0AuPCMaH1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Pehr Anderson <pehr at pehr.net> wrote:
> Is anyone tracking the Swift OpenStack release?
> It seems pretty exciting to have a 100 Petabyte class storage tool
> with Python / Eventlet at the core.
>
> ? ? ?--pehr
>
>

Are you offering to give a talk on this? If so, I am totally interested.



-- 

Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  7 16:46:35 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 09:46:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
Message-ID: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all:

Hope you all had a nice long weekend.   I am now in mad rush mode to
get this ChiPy meeting off the ground this Thursday.  Let's do this
JIT style!

Who wants to present?

Also, looking for food sponsors I think IL said they would. Need to
double check.

I think we booked ITA, I need to double check that. Sully's House is
also an option and I heard they have a nice new rooftop deck--although
that may be tough to pull off without an outside projector.

Last minute meetings are always the best. This will be the best meeting ever.

Thanks for your help!

-- 

Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717

From richgor at northwestern.edu  Tue Sep  7 18:46:55 2010
From: richgor at northwestern.edu (Rich Gordon)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 11:46:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Kickoff event: Chicago chapter of Hacks/Hackers
Message-ID: <016e01cb4eac$47f80890$d7e819b0$@northwestern.edu>

ChiPy folks:

 

You're invited to the kickoff for the Chicago chapter of Hacks/Hackers
(http://www.hackshackers.com), a young but thriving organization that brings
together journalists and programmer/developers interested in coding at the
intersection of media, journalism and the public interest.  RSVP for the
kickoff event at http://meetupchicago.hackshackers.com/calendar/14512445/

 

In addition to refreshments and conversation:

.        Chicago Tribune News Applications Editor Brian Boyer will talk
about the first year of the Tribune's news applications team (they work
heavily in Python, more info here: http://blog.apps.chicagotribune.com/) 

.        The Media Consortium's Tracy Van Slyke will give a special sneak
preview of its upcoming (Oct. 9-10) Independent Media Mobile Hack-A-Thon
(http://mobilehackathon.eventbrite.com).

 

Learn more about Hacks/Hackers at http://hackshackers.com/about/.  Since our
organization's founding last year, we have launched chapters in the San
Francisco Bay Area, New York, Boston, LA, London - and now Chicago.  We've
held a series of educational and "hackathon"-style events and launched a Q&A
site (http://help.hackshackers.com) for people doing work where journalism
and programming meet.  We're also collaborating with the Mozilla Foundation
to create an online class about journalism and technology
(http://p2pu.org/general/open-journalism-open-web) entitled "Open Journalism
and the Open Web."

 

Questions? Let me know .

 

 

Rich Gordon

Professor and Director of Digital Innovation

Medill School, Northwestern University

1870 Campus Drive

Evanston, IL 60208

847-467-5968

 

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From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Tue Sep  7 22:58:47 2010
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 15:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if this has been covered, but I would be happy to present
on Redis / the Python Redis client.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all:
>
> Hope you all had a nice long weekend. ? I am now in mad rush mode to
> get this ChiPy meeting off the ground this Thursday. ?Let's do this
> JIT style!
>
> Who wants to present?
>
> Also, looking for food sponsors I think IL said they would. Need to
> double check.
>
> I think we booked ITA, I need to double check that. Sully's House is
> also an option and I heard they have a nice new rooftop deck--although
> that may be tough to pull off without an outside projector.
>
> Last minute meetings are always the best. This will be the best meeting ever.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> --
>
> Brian Ray
> (773) 669-7717
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From pehr at pehr.net  Wed Sep  8 02:16:36 2010
From: pehr at pehr.net (Pehr Anderson)
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:16:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Monthly meeting next Thursday
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimQZ6oitWPddqUcarJNAQc81m3owdh0AuPCMaH1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PoFHUrvr6_wV9a7Xh=JRmVr+_-kG+zSj9Por=@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=6N=vERLUDv6uYOmGX8SUt=2cUnK1ESbtmE93q@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik5f3vYfTVD_km9YvOL_HaqWafkVOhUwYiZTDNr@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimkG7-jeCECK9d4LaVJR8gn7TCJjgYDUt6G6HNn@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimQZ6oitWPddqUcarJNAQc81m3owdh0AuPCMaH1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=zJ-WRS3-+gdk5EZ09_2bhdGj33Upn_KpOB49-@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not ready to give a talk, but maybe in a few months.

  --pehr


On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Pehr Anderson <pehr at pehr.net> wrote:
>> Is anyone tracking the Swift OpenStack release?
>> It seems pretty exciting to have a 100 Petabyte class storage tool
>> with Python / Eventlet at the core.
>>
>> ? ? ?--pehr
>>
>>
>
> Are you offering to give a talk on this? If so, I am totally interested.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Ray
> (773) 669-7717
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Pehr Anderson
VP Platform Technology - http://HarQen.com - 414-755-1962
cell 414-433-4982

From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 15:29:34 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 08:29:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>

Your on.

Folks, I am thinking of holding the meeting at Sullys.  IL did offer
to sponsor.  This is going to be Brantley up front, then lightening
talks.

Best meeting ever! Still time to offer to talk about something... also
bring your thunder and lightning.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if this has been covered, but I would be happy to present
> on Redis / the Python Redis client.
>



Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717

From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 15:49:57 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 08:49:57 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Folks, I am thinking of holding the meeting at Sullys. ?IL did offer
> to sponsor. ?This is going to be Brantley up front, then lightening
> talks.
>

Sullys house http://www.sullyshouse.com/ has confirmed they can host
us in their private party room on the second floor.

Also, I am working out a open bar (Drinks / Food) with Imaginary
Landscape. There will be some limits.

See... I told you guys this is going to be great :)

-- 

Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717

From chad at glendenin.com  Wed Sep  8 16:52:26 2010
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 09:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinLCguPgjoOOh1FjkZiah2md1ctgu2hJYVCFWfS@mail.gmail.com>

If anybody's interested, I could give a lightning talk on using Python
and Fabric (http://fabfile.org/) to control remote Unix shells for
various sysadmin tasks, with the caveat that I have basically no time
to prepare... and I don't want a bad performance going on my permanent
record. :)

Thanks,
chad

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Folks, I am thinking of holding the meeting at Sullys. ?IL did offer
>> to sponsor. ?This is going to be Brantley up front, then lightening
>> talks.
>>
>
> Sullys house http://www.sullyshouse.com/ has confirmed they can host
> us in their private party room on the second floor.
>
> Also, I am working out a open bar (Drinks / Food) with Imaginary
> Landscape. There will be some limits.
>
> See... I told you guys this is going to be great :)
>
> --
>
> Brian Ray
> (773) 669-7717
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From bray at sent.com  Wed Sep  8 18:15:24 2010
From: bray at sent.com (bray at sent.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:15:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] [ANN] Chicago Python User group
Message-ID: <1283962524.24201.1393979661@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Chicago Python User Group
=========================

This will be our best meeting ever. Facility kindly provided by Sully's
house http://www.sullyshouse.com/.  Food sponsor is Imaginary Landscape
http://www.imagescape.com/.

We all know the JIT time compiled meeting are the best. Brantley, one of
ChiPy most famed presenters, will tackle a solution in the hot topic are
of NoSQL.  Chad Glendenin will wield his SSH kungfo life on the big
screen.

This will be the best meeting ever.

When
----

Thursday, September 9th, 7pm.  

Topics
------

 * Redis / the Python Redis client for NoSQL key/value stores --
 Brantley Harris
 * Python and Fabric (http://fabfile.org/) for SSH tasks  -- Chad
 Glendenin
 * Lightening talks

Location
--------

Note location has changed, new location::
	
  Sully's House Tap Room & Grill
  1501 North Dayton Street
  Chicago, IL 60642
  (773) 244-1234
  Subway: North/Clybourn



About the group
---------------
ChiPy is made up of people of all levels of programming and Python
knowledge. At every meeting we have had both beginning programmers,
people who are just starting to use Python, as well as experienced
Python programmers. Don't be intimidated about coming to a meeting.

Note that ChiPy is not a formal organization. We collect no dues,
elect no officers, and keep no roster. Signing up for the mailing list
carries no obligation. Nor does showing up at the meetings. Nor, at
least so far, does anything else we have done, although we always
appreciate it when our presenters show up. (They usually do!)

http://chipy.org



From verisimilidude at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 21:12:32 2010
From: verisimilidude at gmail.com (Phil Robare)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:12:32 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinLCguPgjoOOh1FjkZiah2md1ctgu2hJYVCFWfS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinLCguPgjoOOh1FjkZiah2md1ctgu2hJYVCFWfS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimnxZSXyFvxbj1Ru63bwF5RNt49jOs47wQFNppo@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:
> ... and I don't want a bad performance going on my permanent
> record. :)
>
> Thanks,
> chad
>
I think it was reported that Carl is out at DjangoCon.  So no permanent record?

From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 21:28:34 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:28:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimPFEniC3u6fU5XZTqi-NP8AUGgPDTgmEpReTyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 08:49, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Folks, I am thinking of holding the meeting at Sullys.  IL did offer
> > to sponsor.  This is going to be Brantley up front, then lightening
> > talks.
> >
>
> Sullys house http://www.sullyshouse.com/ has confirmed they can host
> us in their private party room on the second floor.
>
> Also, I am working out a open bar (Drinks / Food) with Imaginary
> Landscape. There will be some limits.
>
> See... I told you guys this is going to be great :)


(limited) open bar at Sully's on the first meeting I can't make in a
while...damn it.

Definitely going to be the best meeting ever.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Sep  8 21:36:38 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:36:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Looking for a few good presentations. Help!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimnxZSXyFvxbj1Ru63bwF5RNt49jOs47wQFNppo@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimvp_L45aPHCpcxf31A6N=BhK1+p_9a3LOYe=B9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Pdeq-onTknhvaBG4cXkVFufjr8nADVmo_n7Ki@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinJ8T38uCq8YGh5CVz4=qrS8NzqFfZcydcmkeFj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimfrWo0fUcam-WqVLxbsrs4wRv-mQnU95mM6XNO@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinLCguPgjoOOh1FjkZiah2md1ctgu2hJYVCFWfS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimnxZSXyFvxbj1Ru63bwF5RNt49jOs47wQFNppo@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikq5vFqnwuONrxz-dwkJ5dFzPVWCKX3NCE6KmmD@mail.gmail.com>

> I think it was reported that Carl is out at DjangoCon. ?So no permanent record?

Good point, Phil. If anyone has any video recording equipment and want
to take a stab at it please speak up. Yes, Carl and others are at
DjangoCon.  Sadly they will miss the best meeting ever.

-- 

Brian Ray
(773) 669-7717

From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Thu Sep  9 00:55:26 2010
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:55:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] yay
Message-ID: <AANLkTimonZMuOzxA4rN5yPbw4R8Swc3MxEA2imvGNh85@mail.gmail.com>

yay on the fabric +1
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From jdugan at x1024.net  Thu Sep  9 01:13:46 2010
From: jdugan at x1024.net (Jon Dugan)
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:13:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] yay
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimonZMuOzxA4rN5yPbw4R8Swc3MxEA2imvGNh85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimonZMuOzxA4rN5yPbw4R8Swc3MxEA2imvGNh85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=LVn8LB7hz09B1bfJO6-ioHLGxifGSJoUomigC@mail.gmail.com>

another +1 for fabric

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com> wrote:
> yay on the fabric +1
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

From synthet at gmail.com  Mon Sep 13 20:20:46 2010
From: synthet at gmail.com (eli skipp)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:20:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PS:One is holding an ITLAP party!
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+sYOHX-ZAWdR8mpw91_MODhhYok95NFr6-Bsy@mail.gmail.com>

Hello like-minded Chicago folk, PS:One is having an International Talk Like
a Pirate Day Party to which we'd like to extend an invitation!:

AVAST ME HEARTIES! Belay that talk of a boring Saturday night, the good ship
Pumping Station: One is offering fair quarter for jack tars and landlubbers
alike on Saturday September 18th. Join us in splicing the mainbrace (a
colloquialism for downing some ale) on the eve of International Talk Like a
Pirate Day. Down ye some grog and eat ye some grub, come away with proper
booty, and party like yer going on the account.

Bring yer own rum, or donate your dubloons. Eye-patches provided, costumes
encouraged. Festivities begin at two hours past sundown (9:00 p.m.). Fair
winds!

Examples of pirate styles accepted:

   - Sea Pirates
   - Space Pirates
   - Somalian Pirates
   - Sky Pirates
   - Media Pirates
   - Bus Pirates


http://pumpingstationone.org/2010/09/sail-ho-a-psone-pirate-party/

-- 
eli skipp
www.eliskipp.com
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From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Sep 13 20:42:13 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:42:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PS:One is holding an ITLAP party!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+sYOHX-ZAWdR8mpw91_MODhhYok95NFr6-Bsy@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik+sYOHX-ZAWdR8mpw91_MODhhYok95NFr6-Bsy@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin+8J_Q3NFcR=sbLFsUci9JBftHxsFOGQnbg9gr@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:20 PM, eli skipp <synthet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bus Pirates

wut's that?  arg.

-- 
Carl K

From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Mon Sep 13 20:55:06 2010
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:55:06 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PS:One is holding an ITLAP party!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin+8J_Q3NFcR=sbLFsUci9JBftHxsFOGQnbg9gr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik+sYOHX-ZAWdR8mpw91_MODhhYok95NFr6-Bsy@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin+8J_Q3NFcR=sbLFsUci9JBftHxsFOGQnbg9gr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=9FcrOE6jyf=N+mt+jXE_0sPSF0PXwTHchedoC@mail.gmail.com>

http://code.google.com/p/the-bus-pirate/  It's a microchip hacking
device/library.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:20 PM, eli skipp <synthet at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bus Pirates
>
> wut's that?  arg.
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Tue Sep 14 12:51:36 2010
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 05:51:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PS:One is holding an ITLAP party!
Message-ID: <AANLkTin=++bY3GTXkitHOTO8sm9ibaRxAg12KZFTP6hy@mail.gmail.com>

what about ice pirates <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_Pirates> ?
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From jdh2358 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 14 23:37:28 2010
From: jdh2358 at gmail.com (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 16:37:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ANN: job opening at TradeLink Securities
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=fsyz6s91nLjszit_s9FAedtKnTtXOMOYYicWB@mail.gmail.com>

We are looking to hire a programmer/researcher to help research and
develop trading ideas, and to develop infrastructure to put these
trading strategies into production.  We are looking for someone who is
bright and curious with a quantitative background and a strong
interest in writing good code and building systems that work.
Familiarity with basic probability and statistics is a definite plus.
We do not require a financial background, but are looking for someone
with an enthusiasm to dive into this industry and learn a lot.  We do
most of our data modeling and production software in python, utilizing
mostly open source tools.  We have a lot of ideas to test and
hopefully put into production, and you'll be working with a fast paced
and friendly small team of traders and programmers.

Applying:

  Please submit a resume and cover letter to qsjobs at trdlnk.com with
  the subject header "TLS Job".  In your cover letter, please address
  how your background, experience and skills will fit into the
  position described above.  We are looking for a full-time, on-site
  candidate only.

About Us:

  TradeLink Securities, headquartered in Chicago, IL, is a NASDAQ
  market maker and registered broker dealer with FINRA.  The firm
  specializes in both quantitative and fundamental investing in the US
  and abroad.  TradeLink Securities is a division of TradeLink
  Holdings, a diversified alternative investment and proprietary
  trading firm organized in 1979.  For more information visit our
  website at http://tradelinkll.com.

From jdh2358 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 15 00:06:15 2010
From: jdh2358 at gmail.com (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:06:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ANN: job opening at TradeLink Securities
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=fsyz6s91nLjszit_s9FAedtKnTtXOMOYYicWB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=fsyz6s91nLjszit_s9FAedtKnTtXOMOYYicWB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+0dKY+4pwq5iPcHA+BDONXoBuKbM2gtYMw5_9@mail.gmail.com>

Someone just pointed out the URL for the website contains a typo....
Should read http://tradelinkllc.com.  Sorry for the noise..


On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 4:37 PM, John Hunter <jdh2358 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We are looking to hire a programmer/researcher to help research and
> develop trading ideas, and to develop infrastructure to put these
> trading strategies into production. ?We are looking for someone who is
> bright and curious with a quantitative background and a strong
> interest in writing good code and building systems that work.
> Familiarity with basic probability and statistics is a definite plus.
> We do not require a financial background, but are looking for someone
> with an enthusiasm to dive into this industry and learn a lot. ?We do
> most of our data modeling and production software in python, utilizing
> mostly open source tools. ?We have a lot of ideas to test and
> hopefully put into production, and you'll be working with a fast paced
> and friendly small team of traders and programmers.
>
> Applying:
>
> ?Please submit a resume and cover letter to qsjobs at trdlnk.com with
> ?the subject header "TLS Job". ?In your cover letter, please address
> ?how your background, experience and skills will fit into the
> ?position described above. ?We are looking for a full-time, on-site
> ?candidate only.
>
> About Us:
>
> ?TradeLink Securities, headquartered in Chicago, IL, is a NASDAQ
> ?market maker and registered broker dealer with FINRA. ?The firm
> ?specializes in both quantitative and fundamental investing in the US
> ?and abroad. ?TradeLink Securities is a division of TradeLink
> ?Holdings, a diversified alternative investment and proprietary
> ?trading firm organized in 1979. ?For more information visit our
> ?website at http://tradelinkll.com.
>

From alexdmiller at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 06:09:56 2010
From: alexdmiller at yahoo.com (Alex Miller)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Strange Loop conference - Oct. 14-15 - St. Louis
Message-ID: <350245.48856.qm@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello chipy,

I run the Strange Loop conference in St. Louis and I wanted to drop a note here 
in case anyone was interested.  Tragically, there are no Python talks included 
in the schedule.  I feel bad about that.  Current attendees list Python as 4th 
of their favorite languages (http://strangeloop2010.com/questions/list/46102) so 
clearly I have screwed up big time.  In my defense though, no one submitted any 
Python talks.  Clearly you should correct that next year!  Don't worry; I'll 
remind you.  

In the event that anyone is still reading, Strange Loop will however include 
many talks on dynamic and functional languages like Clojure, Scala, Groovy, Lua, 
Perl, F#, and Go.  A sampler of a few:

- Eleanor McHugh - GoLightly: Building VM-based Language Runtimes In Go
- Chris Houser - Clojure's Solutions to the Expression Problem
- Brian Marick - Outside-in TDD in Clojure
- Dean Wampler - The Seductions of Scala 
- Dean Wampler - Scalable Concurrent Applications with Akka and Scala
- James Carr and Than Som - Full-Stack BDD with Scala
- High Wizardry in the Land of Scala - Daniel Spiewak
- Kyle Cordes - Lua, Tiny Embeddable Scripting that Doesn?t Suck
- Matt Follett - Perl 6 - The Apocalypse
- Aaron Erickson - Using F# To Solve Real World Problems
- Paul King - Writing Domain Specific Languages (DSLs) using Groovy
- Josh Bloch, Bob Lee - Java Puzzlers?Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel

In addition to these language talks, you can find dozens of other talks on web 
(HTML 5, JavaScript), scaling apps (with folks from Flickr, Twitter, and more), 
mobile (Android), nosql (MongoDB, Cassandra, Riak, etc) and keynotes by:

- Guy Steele! - How to Think about Parallel Programming: Not!
- Douglas Crockford! - Heresy and Heretical Open Source: A Heretic's Perspective

More info: 
Main:  http://strangeloop2010.com 
Speakers:  http://strangeloop2010.com/speakers 
Schedule:  http://strangeloop2010.com/calendar 
Registration:  https://regonline.com/strangeloop2010  - $190 till Sept. 24th 
(then $250), or $100 for students

It's going to be a fantastic conference and I hope you all can make it despite 
the regrettable lack of Python.  

Thanks,
Alex Miller
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Sep 21 21:53:53 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:53:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing &c.
Message-ID: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>

I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.

http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/

I have not played around enough to give a talk, and being a complete
newbie with this, I would not want to. I'd like to hear someone with
relevant experience give a talk.

thanks thanks

-- 
sheila

From meghan at 10gen.com  Wed Sep 22 19:46:34 2010
From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:46:34 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] MongoDB Conference in Chicago on October 20
Message-ID: <AANLkTik3==2YGr3LzoZy+y6u=8ZP_4DM3eX0-b48AH1x@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I thought you might be interested in this upcoming event about MongoDB.

-Meghan

Mongo Chicago!

Register at http://bit.ly/mongochicago

ABOUT
Mongo Chicago will explore development with the open source,
non-relational, document-oriented database MongoDB. The conference
will feature 20 different sessions, on schema design, indexing,
administration, replication, sharding, and more. In addition to these
topics, attendees can learn about MongoDB in the real world through a
series of presentations about production deployments at companies like
the Chicago Tribune, Gathers.us, Totsy, Gitana Software, and Harmony.

TIME
Wednesday, October 20, 2010
9am - 6pm

LOCATION
Illinois Institute of Technology
McCormick Tribune Campus Center
3201 South State
Chicago IL, 60616
http://www.ccc.iit.edu/

REGISTER
http://bit.ly/mongochicago
$50 early bird until September 30 / $100 general admission / $30 students

HASHTAG
#mongochicago

SPONSOR
10gen develops and supports MongoDB - the open source, high
performance, scalable, document-oriented database. 10gen delivers
technical support, professional services, and training for
commercial-grade deployments of MongoDB.

CONTACT
Meghan P Gill
10gen/MongoDB
(866) 237-8815 x7301
meg at 10gen.com

From g at rre.tt  Thu Sep 23 03:12:56 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 20:12:56 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
Message-ID: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossing Python for Ruby
because Chef kicks so much ass?

I'm in a curmudgeon mind set that thinks that using a simple Python
script to automate a system config is fine, just fine.

I'm afraid that I've missed something.

Please help. What do you use/think works best for complex topology management?

Garrett

From paul at paulmayassociates.com  Thu Sep 23 03:52:04 2010
From: paul at paulmayassociates.com (Paul May)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 1:52:04 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] From PMA - Position: Python Software Development
Message-ID: <177563567817315@127.0.0.1:NOSSL>

Still looking for Python developers. Very coooool job. Let me know if you are interested or know someone. This company has 2 or 3 openings as they are expanding. Salary commensurate with experience.

Python Web Developer, Deerfield Illinois 60015
A minimum of one plus yrs of solid GUI or server side Web- Application PYTHON software development experience. Solid understanding of object orient concepts, using formal development methods. (Experience with agile/test driven methodologies a plus)
Experience developing robust, secure, complex, scalable, high volume, commercial-grade web applications.
Should have some database programming with PostgreSQL, DB2, or Oracle, SQLAlchemy or Twisted.
Financial and business workflow development experience. 
Expertise with all phases of the software development lifecycle, including requirements analysis, design, coding, testing, implementation, and support. 
Any architect and systems development experience a big plus.
Application development using Linux, Apache, Webware, SQLObject, Reportlab technologies a big plus. 
Web services and enterprise application integration experience a big plus 
Business process focused systems experience a big plus. 
Skills working in a collaborative team environment. 
BA/BS in CS or equivalent experience. 
Excellent verbal and written communication skills.
 
Click here to apply online
   
Paul

v 708.479.1111 
c 312.925.1294
Paul May & Associates (PMA)
paul at paulmayassociates.com 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates    
http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc 

(The following links were included with this email:)
http://www.pcrecruiter.net/pcrbin/apply.asp?r=WHiSxfAEkw%2bEBhCkSUKtCYjT7NKfjfhi02t4mNvwwG2xdbPONJhdDiOpsVmD4c1pUn%2futxs%3d

mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc


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From tottinge at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 05:02:09 2010
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:02:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] From PMA - Position: Python Software Development
In-Reply-To: <3856841759712383434@unknownmsgid>
References: <3856841759712383434@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimEta0voOQTPqCYAR45rDgJENAqtw1XTtMv-=hv@mail.gmail.com>

sounds a lot like a job I already had.

-- 
-------------------------------------
http://agileinaflash.com/
http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
http://tottinge.blogsome.com
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From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 05:59:29 2010
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:59:29 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_4uoVfbUHnurinYnLSLTsJAjPcA5BPb6np3Je@mail.gmail.com>

I don't really understand why you have to leave Python for Ruby
because of Chef...  Surely you could use them in tandem?

I think Chef is a really interesting idea.  And a python version could
be rocking, if anyone wants to hack on that I'm sure I would help.  I
don't think it would take much, honestly.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossing Python for Ruby
> because Chef kicks so much ass?
>
> I'm in a curmudgeon mind set that thinks that using a simple Python
> script to automate a system config is fine, just fine.
>
> I'm afraid that I've missed something.
>
> Please help. What do you use/think works best for complex topology management?
>
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Thu Sep 23 08:03:09 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 01:03:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>

  I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And Puppet, 
too, for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment solution, 
something is very wrong.

Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.

-Tal

On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
> Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossing Python for Ruby
> because Chef kicks so much ass?
>
> I'm in a curmudgeon mind set that thinks that using a simple Python
> script to automate a system config is fine, just fine.
>
> I'm afraid that I've missed something.
>
> Please help. What do you use/think works best for complex topology management?
>
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Sep 23 16:03:50 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:03:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>

what happened?

also, I thought people also wrote recipes in python?

On Sep 23, 2010 1:05 AM, "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:

 I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And Puppet, too,
for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment solution, something
is very wrong.

Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.

-Tal



On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>
> Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossin...
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From g at rre.tt  Thu Sep 23 16:08:44 2010
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:08:44 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhiEZf+amLP+f6u4aLksKYyWQKtivcs=PR+baP@mail.gmail.com>

I guess my thinking is Python's a recipe all by itself. I'm probably missing
the goodness of Chef though.

On Sep 23, 2010 9:05 AM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> what happened?
>
> also, I thought people also wrote recipes in python?
>
> On Sep 23, 2010 1:05 AM, "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>
> I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And Puppet, too,
> for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment solution, something
> is very wrong.
>
> Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.
>
> -Tal
>
>
>
> On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossin...
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Sep 23 16:09:26 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:09:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing &c.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinzp79W1mg1SMD4o6Yhjn349sy-+=SKpbU+G1b1@mail.gmail.com>

No one does this? seriously?

I'm not doing it for anything serious. I thought it would be amusing to use
a corpus based on the set of science fiction writers I like who also blog
and/or make their works available online. Then I was going to try random
amusing crap like 'sort by noir transhumanism' on my facebook wall.

though I'm thinking I want have a large enough corpus, and also that I might
not know enough to get anything other than nonsensical noise from whatever I
end up with.

But, it is an amusing way to pass the time.

On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.

http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/

I have not played around enough to give a talk, and being a complete
newbie with this, I would not want to. I'd like to hear someone with
relevant experience give a talk.

thanks thanks

--
sheila
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 16:11:54 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:11:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-5JDTPn8wAZAA22xPszqFUOMZfy3+mp-HaDjM@mail.gmail.com>

*Once you've got your recipes sorted out, Chef allows you to programatically
set up and commission production-ready server instances in next to no time.*
*
*
Isn't the hard part creating the config files? Would it be easier to create
a recipe?

I usually just get the config right then add it to source control.

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:03 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> what happened?
>
> also, I thought people also wrote recipes in python?
>
> On Sep 23, 2010 1:05 AM, "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>
>  I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And Puppet, too,
> for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment solution, something
> is very wrong.
>
> Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.
>
> -Tal
>
>
>
> On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossin...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 16:13:35 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:13:35 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing &c.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinzp79W1mg1SMD4o6Yhjn349sy-+=SKpbU+G1b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzp79W1mg1SMD4o6Yhjn349sy-+=SKpbU+G1b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinvrk4c7L64OTXo5+YANw4zB9XXSbEMnumCsko5@mail.gmail.com>

I don't even understand what this is.

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> No one does this? seriously?
>
> I'm not doing it for anything serious. I thought it would be amusing to use
> a corpus based on the set of science fiction writers I like who also blog
> and/or make their works available online. Then I was going to try random
> amusing crap like 'sort by noir transhumanism' on my facebook wall.
>
> though I'm thinking I want have a large enough corpus, and also that I
> might not know enough to get anything other than nonsensical noise from
> whatever I end up with.
>
> But, it is an amusing way to pass the time.
>
> On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
> python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
> python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.
>
> http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/
>
> I have not played around enough to give a talk, and being a complete
> newbie with this, I would not want to. I'd like to hear someone with
> relevant experience give a talk.
>
> thanks thanks
>
> --
> sheila
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Thu Sep 23 16:16:53 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:16:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>	<4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C9B6155.2070404@threecrickets.com>

  Sure, you can write your scripts in any language. But, what of your 
script uses a Python 2.6 feature and you happen to be deploying to a 
platform that has 2.4? Welcome to the world of today, of major Linux 
distributions.

Of course, I'm recommending Bash here, but it has a lot of the same 
problems. There are differences between *BSD, GNU and Solaris userland 
that can make or break. I guess I prefer Bash because these differences 
are old, documented and stable. "Agile" languages are quickly moving 
targets for deployment.

My problem with Chef was first installing it: getting dependencies at 
their right versions, and then making sure that clients and servers had 
the exact same version, because Chef spits out strange error messages if 
it doesn't.

The promise of Chef/Puppet is really nice -- to abstract the painful 
differences between deployment targets. But I think the projects 
themselves have a ways to go.

-Tal

On 09/23/2010 09:03 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>
> what happened?
>
> also, I thought people also wrote recipes in python?
>
>> On Sep 23, 2010 1:05 AM, "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com 
>> <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And 
>> Puppet, too, for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment 
>> solution, something is very wrong.
>>
>> Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.
>>
>> -Tal
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>> >
>> > Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossin...
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From esm at logic.net  Thu Sep 23 16:22:26 2010
From: esm at logic.net (Ed Marshall)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:22:26 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing &c.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinvrk4c7L64OTXo5+YANw4zB9XXSbEMnumCsko5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzp79W1mg1SMD4o6Yhjn349sy-+=SKpbU+G1b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvrk4c7L64OTXo5+YANw4zB9XXSbEMnumCsko5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikXymDMJTwTgbFZRdLUhTCcZ+cC+PGuQtyze1DN@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't even understand what this is.

[...]

> On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
>> python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
>> python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.
>>
>> http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/
>>
>> Looks to me (this is definitely not my field either) like semantic
analysis of arbitrary text; in the gensim case, breaking it down into a
vector model for representing the information learned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space_model

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space_model>"I Write Like" is what
immediately came to mind for me:

http://iwl.me/

-- 
Ed Marshall <esm at logic.net>
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
http://esm.logic.net/
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From aphor at me.com  Thu Sep 23 17:17:54 2010
From: aphor at me.com (Jeremy McMillan)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:17:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago]  python libraries for latent semantic indexing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4799.1285251216.29447.chicago@python.org>
References: <mailman.4799.1285251216.29447.chicago@python.org>
Message-ID: <207922C7-6ADA-44D1-AA59-FA958700DF80@me.com>

Hey, I actually have a use case! I'm working on an expert system, and  
I want it to perform inference based on a network of salience. Getting  
data isn't hard, it's the metadata that's difficult. I have lots of  
existing (mostly) HTML, Excel Spreadsheets, and Word docs, and Power  
Point :).

I think I can cull some ontological data from the corpus, which can be  
used for inferences, but I need a measure of quality (I like to say  
salience, because affords perspective: a measure of link strength from  
one node to another). Using supervised learning puts data quality back  
into the heavy lifting for users category. I'm hoping to get an 80%  
solution out of a combination of unsupervised learning.

The first problem is that a lot of the text contains jargon which has  
different meaning in different domains. I think LSA may be able to  
provide a factor of salience by teasing domain metadata out of  
information represented in the corpus. If it's computationally  
feasible, and it looks like it *might* be, maybe LSA relevance can be  
used to seed the network/graph of salience from node to node? Should I  
infer this means that, or is this apples and oranges?

My corpus is in a Plone, so I think I will start with ZCTextIndex,  
which does Cosine Rule relevance ranking, rather than trying to bolt  
on something else.

http://wiki.zope.org/zope2/ZCTextIndex
http://www.zope.org/Members/dedalu/ZCTextIndex_python

Additionally, I found an old Geoffrey Hinton Google TechTalk YouTube  
video on using Neural Nets, "Restricted Boltzmann Machines," for  
feature detection (OCR mainly), but with an aside showing a simple  
document classification example.

31:37 is the document analysis example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyzOUbkUf3M

On Sep 23, 2010, at 9:13 AM, sheila miguez wrote:

> Subject: Re: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing
>
> No one does this? seriously?
>
> I'm not doing it for anything serious. I thought it would be amusing  
> to use
> a corpus based on the set of science fiction writers I like who also  
> blog
> and/or make their works available online. Then I was going to try  
> random
> amusing crap like 'sort by noir transhumanism' on my facebook wall.
>
> though I'm thinking I want have a large enough corpus, and also that  
> I might
> not know enough to get anything other than nonsensical noise from  
> whatever I
> end up with.
>
> But, it is an amusing way to pass the time.
>
> On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
> python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
> python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.
>
> http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/
>
> I have not played around enough to give a talk, and being a complete
> newbie with this, I would not want to. I'd like to hear someone with
> relevant experience give a talk.
>
> thanks thanks

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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Sep 23 17:38:03 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:38:03 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing
In-Reply-To: <207922C7-6ADA-44D1-AA59-FA958700DF80@me.com>
References: <mailman.4799.1285251216.29447.chicago@python.org>
	<207922C7-6ADA-44D1-AA59-FA958700DF80@me.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik2EhQwN_RUJguH_axpsoCX5gp7cmYK8g5KUOrY@mail.gmail.com>

Coolness. give a talk :)


I learned about LSA back in the dark ages from a psychology prof.

I've been catching up. Check out some of the other methods. From a
quick gloss perhaps they'd be better able to help with the jargon
since they should give an improvement on handling polysemy. So if
jargon is used in one place to mean something other than what the
common use is, you have a better chance of catching that.


On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Jeremy McMillan <aphor at me.com> wrote:
> Hey, I actually have a use case! I'm working on an expert system, and I want
> it to perform inference based on a network of salience. Getting data isn't
> hard, it's the metadata that's difficult. I have lots of existing (mostly)
> HTML, Excel Spreadsheets, and Word docs, and Power Point :).
> I think I can cull some ontological data from the corpus, which can be used
> for inferences, but I need a measure of quality (I like to say salience,
> because affords perspective: a measure of link strength from one node to
> another). Using supervised learning puts data quality back into the heavy
> lifting for users category. I'm hoping to get an 80% solution out of a
> combination of unsupervised learning.
> The first problem is that a lot of the text contains jargon which has
> different meaning in different domains.?I think LSA may be able to provide a
> factor of salience by teasing domain metadata out of information represented
> in the corpus. If it's computationally feasible, and it looks like it
> *might* be, maybe LSA relevance can be used to seed the network/graph of
> salience from node to node? Should I infer this means that, or is this
> apples and oranges?
> My corpus is in a Plone, so I think I will start with ZCTextIndex, which
> does Cosine Rule relevance ranking, rather than trying to bolt on something
> else.
> http://wiki.zope.org/zope2/ZCTextIndex
> http://www.zope.org/Members/dedalu/ZCTextIndex_python
> Additionally, I found an old?Geoffrey Hinton?Google TechTalk YouTube video
> on using Neural Nets, "Restricted Boltzmann Machines," for feature detection
> (OCR mainly), but with an aside showing a simple document classification
> example.
> 31:37 is the document analysis example
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyzOUbkUf3M
> On Sep 23, 2010, at 9:13 AM,?sheila miguez?wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing
>
> No one does this? seriously?
>
> I'm not doing it for anything serious. I thought it would be amusing to use
> a corpus based on the set of science fiction writers I like who also blog
> and/or make their works available online. Then I was going to try random
> amusing crap like 'sort by noir transhumanism' on my facebook wall.
>
> though I'm thinking I want have a large enough corpus, and also that I might
> not know enough to get anything other than nonsensical noise from whatever I
> end up with.
>
> But, it is an amusing way to pass the time.
>
> On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
> python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
> python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.
>
> http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/
>
> I have not played around enough to give a talk, and being a complete
> newbie with this, I would not want to. I'd like to hear someone with
> relevant experience give a talk.
>
> thanks thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>



-- 
sheila

From carl at personnelware.com  Thu Sep 23 17:44:37 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:44:37 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] scrape power point
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=YEnG++Rjb=XjGqwtm2WZ9tpJ9C+xRt9DiUXkq@mail.gmail.com>

> Getting data isn't hard, it's the metadata that's difficult. I have lots of existing (mostly) HTML, Excel Spreadsheets, and Word docs, and Power Point

Do you have python code to scrape the text from Power Point files?

I would like to be able to scrape the text from Power Point, Keynote
and whatever else a presenter might use for PyCon talks.  I am sure
its a previously solved problem, but it is currently low on my list of
things to even google.

Right now I don't even have a place to store the text, or a firm plan
for a UI to use it.  but at least I am thinking about it.  If someone
hands me one of the pieces, one less thing for me to think about.

-- 
Carl K

From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Sep 23 17:57:11 2010
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:57:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] scrape power point
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=YEnG++Rjb=XjGqwtm2WZ9tpJ9C+xRt9DiUXkq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=YEnG++Rjb=XjGqwtm2WZ9tpJ9C+xRt9DiUXkq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FDE7E9AF-A0AA-4836-81CF-355E2BBC3BCB@gmail.com>





On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:44 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

>> Getting data isn't hard, it's the metadata that's difficult. I have lots of existing (mostly) HTML, Excel Spreadsheets, and Word docs, and Power Point
> 
> Do you have python code to scrape the text from Power Point files?
> 
> I would like to be able to scrape the text from Power Point, Keynote
> and whatever else a presenter might use for PyCon talks.  I am sure
> its a previously solved problem, but it is currently low on my list of
> things to even google.
> 

I recall a Google Docs Hack for this. I think it just takes a URL to them with a location of your PPT. Returns HTML. Then BeautifulSoup it :)

From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Sep 23 17:57:23 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:57:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] scrape power point
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=YEnG++Rjb=XjGqwtm2WZ9tpJ9C+xRt9DiUXkq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=YEnG++Rjb=XjGqwtm2WZ9tpJ9C+xRt9DiUXkq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik3=R0csBOLa=h8G_SjbZBrZtK3x7xiVygiC7LR@mail.gmail.com>

Used to do this with Tcl. ha. :)

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
>> Getting data isn't hard, it's the metadata that's difficult. I have lots of existing (mostly) HTML, Excel Spreadsheets, and Word docs, and Power Point
>
> Do you have python code to scrape the text from Power Point files?
>
> I would like to be able to scrape the text from Power Point, Keynote
> and whatever else a presenter might use for PyCon talks. ?I am sure
> its a previously solved problem, but it is currently low on my list of
> things to even google.
>
> Right now I don't even have a place to store the text, or a firm plan
> for a UI to use it. ?but at least I am thinking about it. ?If someone
> hands me one of the pieces, one less thing for me to think about.
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila

From ken at stox.org  Thu Sep 23 20:14:10 2010
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth P. Stox)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 13:14:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1285265650.21697.7.camel@stox.dyndns.org>

Have you looked at bcfg2?

Written in Python, produced locally ( Argonne National Labs )

And the subject of a previous ChiPy presentation.


On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 20:12 -0500, Garrett Smith wrote:
> Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossing Python for Ruby
> because Chef kicks so much ass?
> 
> I'm in a curmudgeon mind set that thinks that using a simple Python
> script to automate a system config is fine, just fine.
> 
> I'm afraid that I've missed something.
> 
> Please help. What do you use/think works best for complex topology management?
> 
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



From peppers at gmail.com  Fri Sep 24 13:21:18 2010
From: peppers at gmail.com (Terry Peppers)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 06:21:18 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2011 - Call for Proposals
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTLV31fR6Ms=DLH-_KcSYSE-dycU2weDU3iADj@mail.gmail.com>

Call for proposals -- PyCon 2011 -- <http://us.pycon.org/2011/>
===============================================================

Proposal Due date: November 1st, 2010

PyCon is back! With a rocking new website, a great location and
more Python hackers and luminaries under one roof than you could
possibly shake a stick at. We've also added an "Extreme" talk
track this year - no introduction, no fluff - only the pure
technical meat!

PyCon 2011 will be held March 9th through the 17th, 2011 in Atlanta,
Georgia. (Home of some of the best southern food you can possibly
find on Earth!) The PyCon conference days will be March 11-13,
preceded by two tutorial days (March 9-10), and followed by four
days of development sprints (March 14-17).

PyCon 2011 is looking for proposals for the formal presentation
tracks (this includes "extreme talks"). A request for proposals for
poster sessions and tutorials will come separately.

Want to showcase your skills as a Python Hacker? Want to have
hundreds of people see your talk on the subject of your choice? Have
some hot button issue you think the community needs to address, or have
some package, code or project you simply love talking about? Want to
launch your master plan to take over the world with Python?

PyCon is your platform for getting the word out and teaching something
new to hundreds of people, face to face.

In the past, PyCon has had a broad range of presentations, from reports
on academic and commercial projects, tutorials on a broad range of
subjects, and case studies. All conference speakers are volunteers and
come from a myriad of backgrounds: some are new speakers, some have been
speaking for years. Everyone is welcome, so bring your passion and your
code! We've had some incredible past PyCons, and we're looking to you to
help us top them!

Online proposal submission is open now! Proposals  will be accepted
through November 10th, with acceptance notifications coming out by
January 20th. To get started, please see:

   <http://us.pycon.org/2011/speaker/>

For videos of talks from previous years - check out:

   <http://python.mirocommunity.org/category/conferences>

For more information on "Extreme Talks" see:

   <http://us.pycon.org/2011/speaker/extreme/>

We look forward to seeing you in Atlanta!

Please also note - registration for PyCon 2011 will also be capped at a
maximum of 1,500 delegates, including speakers. When registration opens
(soon), you're going to want to make sure you register early! Speakers
with accepted talks will have a guaranteed slot.

Important Dates:
   * November 1st, 2010: Talk proposals due.
   * December 15th, 2010: Acceptance emails sent.
   * January 19th, 2010: Early bird registration closes.
   * March 9-10th, 2011: Tutorial days at PyCon.
   * March 11-13th, 2011: PyCon main conference.
   * March 14-17th, 2011: PyCon sprints days.

Contact Emails:
   Van Lindberg (Conference Chair) - van at python.org
   Jesse Noller (Co-Chair) - jnoller at python.org
   PyCon Organizers list: pycon-organizers at python.org
_______________________________________________
Pycon-pc mailing list
Pycon-pc at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-pc

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Sep 24 17:03:53 2010
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] vinlib package available
Message-ID: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vinlib/


vinlib is a Vehicle Identification Number Package that allows you to
verify and decode parts of the vin number.

Currently it can:
1) vinlib.check_vin will return whether the entered vin number is
authentic/correct.
2) decode function coming soon. If anybody has a list of vin to make
or vin to model references please let me know.

Install vinlib
PYPI

You can install vinlib from PyPi:

easy_install vinlib

Done.

Using vinlib

In python code you can:

import vinlib
myvinnumber='1hasomenumberhere'
print vinlib.check_vin(myvinnumber)

This will return true or false depending if the vin number is correct or not.

Enjoy,
Lucas

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Sep 24 17:11:30 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:11:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] vinlib package available
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTindSq+NMpeTVNTqo0q95LEqauhS7mLw+Od7V3ot@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vinlib/
>
>
> vinlib is a Vehicle Identification Number Package that allows you to
> verify and decode parts of the vin number.
>
> Currently it can:
> 1) vinlib.check_vin will return whether the entered vin number is
> authentic/correct.
> 2) decode function coming soon. If anybody has a list of vin to make
> or vin to model references please let me know.

I bet a good source is the guy that makes the python interface to
the... um.. the thing that plugs into the diagnostic plug usually
located under the steering column.

and I bet he would want to know about what you are doing.

-- 
Carl K

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Sep 24 17:14:00 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:14:00 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python libraries for latent semantic indexing &c.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikXymDMJTwTgbFZRdLUhTCcZ+cC+PGuQtyze1DN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinK5tGJi+xnGK0ODgvnZCChXQprVSzNcthstcGv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzp79W1mg1SMD4o6Yhjn349sy-+=SKpbU+G1b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvrk4c7L64OTXo5+YANw4zB9XXSbEMnumCsko5@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikXymDMJTwTgbFZRdLUhTCcZ+cC+PGuQtyze1DN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinJ8uSHc2cp9o4WWd=p9VLODeBuVGUDx17tJowV@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Ed Marshall <esm at logic.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't even understand what this is.
>
> [...]
>>>
>>> On Sep 21, 2010 2:53 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would be interested in hearing a talk about how someone has used
>>> python for LSA, LDA, &c. analysis. Playing around myself, I found a
>>> python library called gensim, and a java library called mallet.
>>>
>>> http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/gensim/
>
> Looks to me (this is definitely not my field either) like semantic analysis
> of arbitrary text; in the gensim case, breaking it down into a vector model
> for representing the information learned:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_space_model
> "I Write Like" is what immediately came to mind for me:
> http://iwl.me/
> --
> Ed Marshall <esm at logic.net>
> Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
> http://esm.logic.net/

Thanks for following up with the links.

so anyway, it would be fun if someone where to give a talk at an
introductory level on how they are using python to play with concepts
like this.

We do have people where I work using methods like this, though not so
much akin to content similarity in fiction as to ranking
likes/dislikes. I don't often interact with them (not near as much as
in monthly meetings).


-- 
sheila

From lister-chipy at guide.chi.il.us  Fri Sep 24 17:27:23 2010
From: lister-chipy at guide.chi.il.us (Steve K)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:27:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] vinlib package available
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTindSq+NMpeTVNTqo0q95LEqauhS7mLw+Od7V3ot@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTindSq+NMpeTVNTqo0q95LEqauhS7mLw+Od7V3ot@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100924152723.GA68020@mail.guide.chi.il.us>

I may be mistaken, but I believe what Carl is referring to is the ODB-II
port and the project is pyODB (http://www.obdtester.com/pyobd). 

- Steve

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:11:30AM -0500, Carl Karsten wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vinlib/
> >
> >
> > vinlib is a Vehicle Identification Number Package that allows you to
> > verify and decode parts of the vin number.
> >
> > Currently it can:
> > 1) vinlib.check_vin will return whether the entered vin number is
> > authentic/correct.
> > 2) decode function coming soon. If anybody has a list of vin to make
> > or vin to model references please let me know.
> 
> I bet a good source is the guy that makes the python interface to
> the... um.. the thing that plugs into the diagnostic plug usually
> located under the steering column.
> 
> and I bet he would want to know about what you are doing.
> 
> -- 
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

-- 
Future Perfect: A term w hich has been abandoned since it was 
discovered not to be. 
                                                        -- Douglas Adams

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Sep 24 17:50:24 2010
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:50:24 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] vinlib package available
In-Reply-To: <20100924152723.GA68020@mail.guide.chi.il.us>
References: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTindSq+NMpeTVNTqo0q95LEqauhS7mLw+Od7V3ot@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100924152723.GA68020@mail.guide.chi.il.us>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfAer_-g4yq+1mYyhD7sqSF7fnv8wpbehDSL2A@mail.gmail.com>

yes on the port, not sure if that is the project, looks more comercial
than what I remember, but that was over 3 years ago, so who knows.

anyway, I did correspond with a guy who was into cars, python and
helping. did a quick email search, didn't' find anything.  If in a
month you still don't have any leads, I'll dig more.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve K <lister-chipy at guide.chi.il.us> wrote:
> I may be mistaken, but I believe what Carl is referring to is the ODB-II
> port and the project is pyODB (http://www.obdtester.com/pyobd).
>
> - Steve
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:11:30AM -0500, Carl Karsten wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Lukasz Szybalski <szybalski at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vinlib/
>> >
>> >
>> > vinlib is a Vehicle Identification Number Package that allows you to
>> > verify and decode parts of the vin number.
>> >
>> > Currently it can:
>> > 1) vinlib.check_vin will return whether the entered vin number is
>> > authentic/correct.
>> > 2) decode function coming soon. If anybody has a list of vin to make
>> > or vin to model references please let me know.
>>
>> I bet a good source is the guy that makes the python interface to
>> the... um.. the thing that plugs into the diagnostic plug usually
>> located under the steering column.
>>
>> and I bet he would want to know about what you are doing.
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> --
> Future Perfect: A term w hich has been abandoned since it was
> discovered not to be.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- Douglas Adams
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Carl K

From szybalski at gmail.com  Fri Sep 24 18:45:13 2010
From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:45:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] vinlib package available
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimfAer_-g4yq+1mYyhD7sqSF7fnv8wpbehDSL2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikUNGRQcTen0AyQOEAp08swAbSAwawg-kJqVN0E@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTindSq+NMpeTVNTqo0q95LEqauhS7mLw+Od7V3ot@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100924152723.GA68020@mail.guide.chi.il.us>
	<AANLkTimfAer_-g4yq+1mYyhD7sqSF7fnv8wpbehDSL2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTineb35WVWg_S9tpP5VBX5M-jNEqXW3DxkB6XSfJ@mail.gmail.com>

>> port and the project is pyODB (http://www.obdtester.com/pyobd).
>>

pyodb talks to the car computer and returns an error message.

My project on the other hand will allow decrypting the vin#. So
weather you are buying a car or insuring it, vinlib will tell you if
the vin# is valid or invalid. Soon I'll be adding decrypting so that
if you decrypt the vin# you will be able to tell if its fords vin# or
not, etc...

Thanks,
Lucas



>>> > http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vinlib/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > vinlib is a Vehicle Identification Number Package that allows you to
>>> > verify and decode parts of the vin number.
>>> >
>>> > Currently it can:
>>> > 1) vinlib.check_vin will return whether the entered vin number is
>>> > authentic/correct.
>>> > 2) decode function coming soon. If anybody has a list of vin to make
>>> > or vin to model references please let me know.
>>>
>>> I bet a good source is the guy that makes the python interface to
>>> the... um.. the thing that plugs into the diagnostic plug usually
>>> located under the steering column.
>>>
>>> and I bet he would want to know about what you are doing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carl K
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> --
>> Future Perfect: A term w hich has been abandoned since it was
>> discovered not to be.
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- Douglas Adams
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
OpenLdap server for User/Client Authentication in 1min.
http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/OpenLdap#SetupOpenLdapserver.sh

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Mon Sep 27 10:18:33 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 03:18:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
Message-ID: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>



Hey ChiPy,


After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release 
candidate for Prudence:


http://threecrickets.com/prudence/


Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this 
one is a bit different:


1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited 
support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).

2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. 
You know, HTTP is actually really useful.

3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.

4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web 
development platform.

5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I 
have other apps talking to MongoDB.)

6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM 
platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu 
repository FTW.


I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with 
Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try 
to implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.


Can I get a +1?


A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying 
library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I 
had to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things 
that no man should have to know.


Love,

Tal


From tjurewicz at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 17:17:55 2010
From: tjurewicz at gmail.com (Trent Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:17:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>

+1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
implemented...

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>
>
> Hey ChiPy,
>
>
> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
> candidate for Prudence:
>
>
> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>
>
> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one
> is a bit different:
>
>
> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>
> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. You
> know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>
> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>
> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
> development platform.
>
> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I have
> other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>
> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
> FTW.
>
>
> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>
>
> Can I get a +1?
>
>
> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
> man should have to know.
>
>
> Love,
>
> Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 17:21:47 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for something really cool.

How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database calls?


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz <tjurewicz at gmail.com>wrote:

> +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
> implemented...
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey ChiPy,
>>
>>
>> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
>> candidate for Prudence:
>>
>>
>> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>>
>>
>> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one
>> is a bit different:
>>
>>
>> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
>> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>>
>> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. You
>> know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>>
>> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>>
>> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
>> development platform.
>>
>> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I have
>> other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>>
>> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
>> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
>> FTW.
>>
>>
>> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
>> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
>> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>>
>>
>> Can I get a +1?
>>
>>
>> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
>> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
>> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
>> man should have to know.
>>
>>
>> Love,
>>
>> Tal
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From mattkemp at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 17:26:28 2010
From: mattkemp at gmail.com (Matthew Kemp)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:26:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=yivMpruPNzu2E5TtDJnLteXKGTs8=HooVuVsP@mail.gmail.com>

+1

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 for something really cool.
>
> How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database calls?
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz <tjurewicz at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
>> implemented...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey ChiPy,
>>>
>>>
>>> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
>>> candidate for Prudence:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one
>>> is a bit different:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
>>> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>>>
>>> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you.
>>> You know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>>>
>>> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>>>
>>> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
>>> development platform.
>>>
>>> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I
>>> have other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>>>
>>> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
>>> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
>>> FTW.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
>>> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
>>> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can I get a +1?
>>>
>>>
>>> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
>>> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
>>> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
>>> man should have to know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Love,
>>>
>>> Tal
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 17:32:55 2010
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 10:32:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik9HB2YncDJtWNVWAe1mFLsWOJvTqQn-SU4HiLx@mail.gmail.com>

+1 to hear about it in General. I don't really care to hear about it's
advanced uses till I get a general overview.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey ChiPy,
>
>
> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
> candidate for Prudence:
>
>
> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>
>
> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one is
> a bit different:
>
>
> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>
> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. You
> know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>
> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>
> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
> development platform.
>
> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I have
> other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>
> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
> FTW.
>
>
> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>
>
> Can I get a +1?
>
>
> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
> man should have to know.
>
>
> Love,
>
> Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Mon Sep 27 19:32:17 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:32:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik9HB2YncDJtWNVWAe1mFLsWOJvTqQn-SU4HiLx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTik9HB2YncDJtWNVWAe1mFLsWOJvTqQn-SU4HiLx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA0D521.2010203@threecrickets.com>



Sure. I just didn't want to duplicate the online tutorial. (Prudence 
comes with a 100-page manual.)


I could spend half of the presentation doing a quick introduction, and 
then focus on the caching. If people are interested, I can keep making 
more presentations focusing on specific aspects of Prudence.


-Tal


On 09/27/2010 10:32 AM, Adam Jenkins wrote:

> +1 to hear about it in General. I don't really care to hear about it's
> advanced uses till I get a general overview.
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron<tal.liron at threecrickets.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Hey ChiPy,
>>
>>
>> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
>> candidate for Prudence:
>>
>>
>> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>>
>>
>> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one is
>> a bit different:
>>
>>
>> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
>> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>>
>> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. You
>> know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>>
>> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>>
>> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
>> development platform.
>>
>> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I have
>> other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>>
>> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
>> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
>> FTW.
>>
>>
>> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
>> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
>> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>>
>>
>> Can I get a +1?
>>
>>
>> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
>> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
>> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
>> man should have to know.
>>
>>
>> Love,
>>
>> Tal
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Mon Sep 27 19:49:01 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:49:01 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA0D90D.9030905@threecrickets.com>

  The truth is that non-blocking I/O is not a big deal for web 
applications. Somewhere at the top, you /always/ have a thread pool. In 
order to do anything meaningful to generate a page dynamically, you will 
have a single thread going through some code, which you'll want to 
release ASAP. A user generates a hit with a browser, and generates a 
tiny response. Breaking it up to multiple calling threads will not help 
anything -- it will just create a data synchronization burden for you, 
which is already considerable in a multi-threaded environment, such as 
Prudence.

When it comes down to it, there are actually very few use cases for pure 
non-threaded I/O on the Internet: streaming media, or media in general 
-- basically anything /static/. Prudence does have (experimental) 
support in version 1.0 for something called "deferred conversations," in 
which you can release the current thread and commit it whenever you feel 
like it. But ... what kind of user experience is that? The user will be 
waiting for your web page to return, and meanwhile watch the browser 
spin. If you have a potentially long request, you are far better off 
putting something on a task queue, and returning a "please wait" page to 
the user, which will continue polling your site until it gets a result. 
Think of something like Travelocity's "searching for you flights" page.

I deal with the issue in some depth in the chapter "Scaling Tips" in the 
Prudence Manual:

http://threecrickets.com/prudence/scaling/#toc-Subsection-89

Where non-blocking I/O can help a pure web app is: delivering media (if 
you really want to do it from the same server... not necessarily 
recommended, but possible), and more graceful handling of failure. In my 
ideal, Prudence's I/O frontend would be able to talk directly to the 
caching layer (on the roadmap), but even that is hard to recommend as 
such a great feature. If the thread pool handling the "dynamic" web 
pages is saturated, and you're just returning static cached pages to 
some users, then your application may seem to work, but is in fact quite 
broken. You haven't solved your scaling problem, just put a bandaid on it.

Also, though non-blocking I/O is interesting (and hard to do) it's not 
even that necessary anymore. Modern kernels (Linux especially) do a 
fabulous job handling many thousands of rotating threads. If you look at 
a few of the high-scalability web servers available for Linux, some of 
the best performing and scaling ones are those based on threads, not async.

-Tal

On 09/27/2010 10:21 AM, Daniel Griffin wrote:
> +1 for something really cool.
>
> How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database calls?
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz <tjurewicz at gmail.com 
> <mailto:tjurewicz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
>     implemented...
>
>
>     On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron
>     <tal.liron at threecrickets.com <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>
>
>         Hey ChiPy,
>
>
>         After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a
>         release candidate for Prudence:
>
>
>         http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>
>
>         Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn.
>         But this one is a bit different:
>
>
>         1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some
>         limited support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>
>         2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden
>         from you. You know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>
>         3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>
>         4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen
>         in a web development platform.
>
>         5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses
>         SQLAlchemy. (I have other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>
>         6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on
>         any JVM platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and
>         Windows. Ubuntu repository FTW.
>
>
>         I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced
>         Caching with Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you
>         might get jealous and try to implement some of these tricks in
>         your own platform of choice.
>
>
>         Can I get a +1?
>
>
>         A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the
>         underlying library that makes Jython work well in highly
>         concurrent environments. I had to do a lot of hacking in the
>         Jython source code, and learn things that no man should have
>         to know.
>
>
>         Love,
>
>         Tal
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 20:09:33 2010
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:09:33 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <4CA0D90D.9030905@threecrickets.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA0D90D.9030905@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimqp83aXrhq7G1XXcYz=QFmX36w4uAAVMaptP6Z@mail.gmail.com>

So you just push the processing of each request off into a thread pool or
are you assuming each request is short?

Also, way to write doc that actually explains what this does. This trend of
people generating pydoc or whatever and thinking they are set is awful.



On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  The truth is that non-blocking I/O is not a big deal for web applications.
> Somewhere at the top, you /always/ have a thread pool. In order to do
> anything meaningful to generate a page dynamically, you will have a single
> thread going through some code, which you'll want to release ASAP. A user
> generates a hit with a browser, and generates a tiny response. Breaking it
> up to multiple calling threads will not help anything -- it will just create
> a data synchronization burden for you, which is already considerable in a
> multi-threaded environment, such as Prudence.
>
> When it comes down to it, there are actually very few use cases for pure
> non-threaded I/O on the Internet: streaming media, or media in general --
> basically anything /static/. Prudence does have (experimental) support in
> version 1.0 for something called "deferred conversations," in which you can
> release the current thread and commit it whenever you feel like it. But ...
> what kind of user experience is that? The user will be waiting for your web
> page to return, and meanwhile watch the browser spin. If you have a
> potentially long request, you are far better off putting something on a task
> queue, and returning a "please wait" page to the user, which will continue
> polling your site until it gets a result. Think of something like
> Travelocity's "searching for you flights" page.
>
> I deal with the issue in some depth in the chapter "Scaling Tips" in the
> Prudence Manual:
>
> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/scaling/#toc-Subsection-89
>
> Where non-blocking I/O can help a pure web app is: delivering media (if you
> really want to do it from the same server... not necessarily recommended,
> but possible), and more graceful handling of failure. In my ideal,
> Prudence's I/O frontend would be able to talk directly to the caching layer
> (on the roadmap), but even that is hard to recommend as such a great
> feature. If the thread pool handling the "dynamic" web pages is saturated,
> and you're just returning static cached pages to some users, then your
> application may seem to work, but is in fact quite broken. You haven't
> solved your scaling problem, just put a bandaid on it.
>
> Also, though non-blocking I/O is interesting (and hard to do) it's not even
> that necessary anymore. Modern kernels (Linux especially) do a fabulous job
> handling many thousands of rotating threads. If you look at a few of the
> high-scalability web servers available for Linux, some of the best
> performing and scaling ones are those based on threads, not async.
>
> -Tal
>
>
> On 09/27/2010 10:21 AM, Daniel Griffin wrote:
>
>> +1 for something really cool.
>>
>> How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database calls?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz <tjurewicz at gmail.com<mailto:
>> tjurewicz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
>>    implemented...
>>
>>
>>    On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron
>>    <tal.liron at threecrickets.com <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>>
>>
>>    wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>        Hey ChiPy,
>>
>>
>>        After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a
>>        release candidate for Prudence:
>>
>>
>>        http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>>
>>
>>        Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn.
>>        But this one is a bit different:
>>
>>
>>        1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some
>>        limited support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>>
>>        2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden
>>        from you. You know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>>
>>        3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>>
>>        4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen
>>        in a web development platform.
>>
>>        5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses
>>        SQLAlchemy. (I have other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>>
>>        6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on
>>        any JVM platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and
>>        Windows. Ubuntu repository FTW.
>>
>>
>>        I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced
>>        Caching with Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you
>>        might get jealous and try to implement some of these tricks in
>>        your own platform of choice.
>>
>>
>>        Can I get a +1?
>>
>>
>>        A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the
>>        underlying library that makes Jython work well in highly
>>        concurrent environments. I had to do a lot of hacking in the
>>        Jython source code, and learn things that no man should have
>>        to know.
>>
>>
>>        Love,
>>
>>        Tal
>>
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        Chicago mailing list
>>        Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>
>>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Chicago mailing list
>>    Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>
>>    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 20:40:54 2010
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:40:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimqp83aXrhq7G1XXcYz=QFmX36w4uAAVMaptP6Z@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA0D90D.9030905@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTimqp83aXrhq7G1XXcYz=QFmX36w4uAAVMaptP6Z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin3ahg8WxaTxDW-+h28hJbST9DQ+p8o+-A0CnF0@mail.gmail.com>

+1 Maybe you and the professor who created Web2Py can get together. This is
exciting.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> So you just push the processing of each request off into a thread pool or
> are you assuming each request is short?
>
> Also, way to write doc that actually explains what this does. This trend of
> people generating pydoc or whatever and thinking they are set is awful.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>  The truth is that non-blocking I/O is not a big deal for web
>> applications. Somewhere at the top, you /always/ have a thread pool. In
>> order to do anything meaningful to generate a page dynamically, you will
>> have a single thread going through some code, which you'll want to release
>> ASAP. A user generates a hit with a browser, and generates a tiny response.
>> Breaking it up to multiple calling threads will not help anything -- it will
>> just create a data synchronization burden for you, which is already
>> considerable in a multi-threaded environment, such as Prudence.
>>
>> When it comes down to it, there are actually very few use cases for pure
>> non-threaded I/O on the Internet: streaming media, or media in general --
>> basically anything /static/. Prudence does have (experimental) support in
>> version 1.0 for something called "deferred conversations," in which you can
>> release the current thread and commit it whenever you feel like it. But ...
>> what kind of user experience is that? The user will be waiting for your web
>> page to return, and meanwhile watch the browser spin. If you have a
>> potentially long request, you are far better off putting something on a task
>> queue, and returning a "please wait" page to the user, which will continue
>> polling your site until it gets a result. Think of something like
>> Travelocity's "searching for you flights" page.
>>
>> I deal with the issue in some depth in the chapter "Scaling Tips" in the
>> Prudence Manual:
>>
>> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/scaling/#toc-Subsection-89
>>
>> Where non-blocking I/O can help a pure web app is: delivering media (if
>> you really want to do it from the same server... not necessarily
>> recommended, but possible), and more graceful handling of failure. In my
>> ideal, Prudence's I/O frontend would be able to talk directly to the caching
>> layer (on the roadmap), but even that is hard to recommend as such a great
>> feature. If the thread pool handling the "dynamic" web pages is saturated,
>> and you're just returning static cached pages to some users, then your
>> application may seem to work, but is in fact quite broken. You haven't
>> solved your scaling problem, just put a bandaid on it.
>>
>> Also, though non-blocking I/O is interesting (and hard to do) it's not
>> even that necessary anymore. Modern kernels (Linux especially) do a fabulous
>> job handling many thousands of rotating threads. If you look at a few of the
>> high-scalability web servers available for Linux, some of the best
>> performing and scaling ones are those based on threads, not async.
>>
>> -Tal
>>
>>
>> On 09/27/2010 10:21 AM, Daniel Griffin wrote:
>>
>>> +1 for something really cool.
>>>
>>> How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database calls?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz <tjurewicz at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> tjurewicz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
>>>    implemented...
>>>
>>>
>>>    On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron
>>>    <tal.liron at threecrickets.com <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>>
>>>
>>>    wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        Hey ChiPy,
>>>
>>>
>>>        After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a
>>>        release candidate for Prudence:
>>>
>>>
>>>        http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>>>
>>>
>>>        Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn.
>>>        But this one is a bit different:
>>>
>>>
>>>        1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some
>>>        limited support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>>>
>>>        2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden
>>>        from you. You know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>>>
>>>        3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>>>
>>>        4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen
>>>        in a web development platform.
>>>
>>>        5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses
>>>        SQLAlchemy. (I have other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>>>
>>>        6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on
>>>        any JVM platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and
>>>        Windows. Ubuntu repository FTW.
>>>
>>>
>>>        I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced
>>>        Caching with Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you
>>>        might get jealous and try to implement some of these tricks in
>>>        your own platform of choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>        Can I get a +1?
>>>
>>>
>>>        A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the
>>>        underlying library that makes Jython work well in highly
>>>        concurrent environments. I had to do a lot of hacking in the
>>>        Jython source code, and learn things that no man should have
>>>        to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>        Love,
>>>
>>>        Tal
>>>
>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>        Chicago mailing list
>>>        Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>>
>>>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Chicago mailing list
>>>    Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>>
>>>    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Mon Sep 27 20:51:36 2010
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:51:36 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimqp83aXrhq7G1XXcYz=QFmX36w4uAAVMaptP6Z@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>	<AANLkTim7PEGK4h5X8v4p8Weg7N=TMb4G=ZgP13B4pogV@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTik+pTW4xb=55=+8QddF-impyO+mhs3s9Wy071Ga@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA0D90D.9030905@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTimqp83aXrhq7G1XXcYz=QFmX36w4uAAVMaptP6Z@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA0E7B8.6080508@threecrickets.com>



Prudence assumes nothing. It's up to you, as a developer, to make sure 
your threads don't hang. I know of no web framework that can save you 
from that responsibility. At best, perhaps you can get a warning about 
overly long request handling. (Though, a hanging application is a good 
enough warning...)

The actual handling of requests is done by Grizzly (which can be 
replaced with Jetty or Netty) and Restlet on top of it. I'm an active 
contributor to Restlet, and am happy to say that we have some of the 
best thinkers about concurrency on board. The work on asynchronous 
handling (which is key to Prudence's conversation.defer API) is still in 
the initial phases: the structures along the way are thread safe, but 
there's a problem with response processing that could lead to 
indeterminate (thread-safe) states. This is something that will be 
addressed better in the next version of Restlet, and thus Prudence. 
Though, as I'll keep reminding everyone, asynchronous handling is a cute 
feature that actually isn't all that useful.

Thanks for the doc compliment! Many, many hours were spent on writing it...


I write all my documentation in LyX, which is essentially LaTeX. The LyX 
source and generated (100-page) PDF are part of the Prudence download. I 
then run eLyXer (a Python app) to turn LyX into a single HTML page, and 
then have my own script do its regex magic to make that single page into 
something more webby, which is what you see in the online manual.


The nice thing is that I use a real word processor, which is a pleasure, 
and then can generate both online documentation and a beautifully 
printed book from it. It's the only way I document these days. Though, 
I've heard really good things about reStructuredText.


-Tal


On 09/27/2010 01:09 PM, Daniel Griffin wrote:

> So you just push the processing of each request off into a thread pool 
> or are you assuming each request is short?
>
> Also, way to write doc that actually explains what this does. This 
> trend of people generating pydoc or whatever and thinking they are set 
> is awful.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Tal Liron 
> <tal.liron at threecrickets.com <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>> wrote:
>
>      The truth is that non-blocking I/O is not a big deal for web
>     applications. Somewhere at the top, you /always/ have a thread
>     pool. In order to do anything meaningful to generate a page
>     dynamically, you will have a single thread going through some
>     code, which you'll want to release ASAP. A user generates a hit
>     with a browser, and generates a tiny response. Breaking it up to
>     multiple calling threads will not help anything -- it will just
>     create a data synchronization burden for you, which is already
>     considerable in a multi-threaded environment, such as Prudence.
>
>     When it comes down to it, there are actually very few use cases
>     for pure non-threaded I/O on the Internet: streaming media, or
>     media in general -- basically anything /static/. Prudence does
>     have (experimental) support in version 1.0 for something called
>     "deferred conversations," in which you can release the current
>     thread and commit it whenever you feel like it. But ... what kind
>     of user experience is that? The user will be waiting for your web
>     page to return, and meanwhile watch the browser spin. If you have
>     a potentially long request, you are far better off putting
>     something on a task queue, and returning a "please wait" page to
>     the user, which will continue polling your site until it gets a
>     result. Think of something like Travelocity's "searching for you
>     flights" page.
>
>     I deal with the issue in some depth in the chapter "Scaling Tips"
>     in the Prudence Manual:
>
>     http://threecrickets.com/prudence/scaling/#toc-Subsection-89
>
>     Where non-blocking I/O can help a pure web app is: delivering
>     media (if you really want to do it from the same server... not
>     necessarily recommended, but possible), and more graceful handling
>     of failure. In my ideal, Prudence's I/O frontend would be able to
>     talk directly to the caching layer (on the roadmap), but even that
>     is hard to recommend as such a great feature. If the thread pool
>     handling the "dynamic" web pages is saturated, and you're just
>     returning static cached pages to some users, then your application
>     may seem to work, but is in fact quite broken. You haven't solved
>     your scaling problem, just put a bandaid on it.
>
>     Also, though non-blocking I/O is interesting (and hard to do) it's
>     not even that necessary anymore. Modern kernels (Linux especially)
>     do a fabulous job handling many thousands of rotating threads. If
>     you look at a few of the high-scalability web servers available
>     for Linux, some of the best performing and scaling ones are those
>     based on threads, not async.
>
>     -Tal
>
>
>     On 09/27/2010 10:21 AM, Daniel Griffin wrote:
>
>         +1 for something really cool.
>
>         How do you reconcile non-blocking I/O with blocking database
>         calls?
>
>
>         On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Trent Jurewicz
>         <tjurewicz at gmail.com <mailto:tjurewicz at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:tjurewicz at gmail.com <mailto:tjurewicz at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>            +1 to hear more about prudence in general and the caching layer
>            implemented...
>
>
>            On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron
>         <tal.liron at threecrickets.com
>         <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
>         <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com
>         <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>>>
>
>            wrote:
>
>
>
>                Hey ChiPy,
>
>
>                After more than a year of development, I'm happy to
>         announce a
>                release candidate for Prudence:
>
>
>         http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>
>
>                Yes, yet another web development framework for Python.
>         Yawn.
>                But this one is a bit different:
>
>
>                1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some
>                limited support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>
>                2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is
>         hidden
>                from you. You know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>
>                3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about
>         concurrency.
>
>                4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system
>         you've seen
>                in a web development platform.
>
>                5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses
>                SQLAlchemy. (I have other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>
>                6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will
>         run on
>                any JVM platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and
>                Windows. Ubuntu repository FTW.
>
>
>                I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced
>                Caching with Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you
>                might get jealous and try to implement some of these
>         tricks in
>                your own platform of choice.
>
>
>                Can I get a +1?
>
>
>                A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the
>                underlying library that makes Jython work well in highly
>                concurrent environments. I had to do a lot of hacking
>         in the
>                Jython source code, and learn things that no man should
>         have
>                to know.
>
>
>                Love,
>
>                Tal
>
>                _______________________________________________
>                Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         <mailto:Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>>
>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>            _______________________________________________
>            Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         <mailto:Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>>
>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From jason at hostedlabs.com  Mon Sep 27 21:43:11 2010
From: jason at hostedlabs.com (Jason Rexilius)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 14:43:11 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] hiring FTE or contract
Message-ID: <4CA0F3CF.7040001@hostedlabs.com>

Hey gang,

   One of the start-ups I'm helping out is in desperate need of a PHP or 
Python web dev in the west loop (Randolph and Clinton).  There is PHP 
and Java already in environment. Open to adding python to the mix for 
certain components.

   Competitive pay rate, open to FTE or contract.  Ping me offline if 
you have same bandwidth or are looking.

-jason

From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Mon Sep 27 22:27:45 2010
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:27:45 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
In-Reply-To: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
References: <4CA05359.1010309@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=8bMJR-1DmydnekukrgDjixUv4ePDBgonx8nP-@mail.gmail.com>

JVM... Interesting.  +1

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey ChiPy,
>
>
> After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release
> candidate for Prudence:
>
>
> http://threecrickets.com/prudence/
>
>
> Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this one is
> a bit different:
>
>
> 1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited support
> for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).
>
> 2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. You
> know, HTTP is actually really useful.
>
> 3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.
>
> 4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web
> development platform.
>
> 5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I have
> other apps talking to MongoDB.)
>
> 6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM
> platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu repository
> FTW.
>
>
> I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with
> Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try to
> implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.
>
>
> Can I get a +1?
>
>
> A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying
> library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I had
> to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things that no
> man should have to know.
>
>
> Love,
>
> Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Sep 27 23:18:02 2010
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:18:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Seattle area week of 10/10
Message-ID: <AANLkTinPg-+JzeFATm_4hcuNEAXMM_HF7hWcPRU0LMW5@mail.gmail.com>

Carl and I are going to be in the Seattle a few days during the week
of 10/10. If any expatriate wants to meet up, let us know.

-- 
sheila

From me at kmwhite.net  Tue Sep 28 01:08:55 2010
From: me at kmwhite.net (=?utf-8?B?S3Jpc3RvZmVyIE0gV2hpdGU=?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:08:55 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Chicago] =?utf-8?q?Prudence?=
Message-ID: <20100927230855.BC4EBEE9AC@mail.python.org>

+1 I'm interested.

-- Kristofer M White
Sent from my HTC Android phone.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
Date: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 3:18 AM
Subject: [Chicago] Prudence
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>



Hey ChiPy,


After more than a year of development, I'm happy to announce a release 
candidate for Prudence:


http://threecrickets.com/prudence/


Yes, yet another web development framework for Python. Yawn. But this 
one is a bit different:


1. Embraces the JVM. That means Jython-centric, with some limited 
support for Jepp (real CPython on the JVM, bleh).

2. Designed ground-up for REST. Nothing about HTTP is hidden from you. 
You know, HTTP is actually really useful.

3. Non-blocking I/O and other adult thinking about concurrency.

4. Probably the most sophisticated caching system you've seen in a web 
development platform.

5. No data layer -- add your own. The example app uses SQLAlchemy. (I 
have other apps talking to MongoDB.)

6. Ready-to-rumble package -- just download, and will run on any JVM 
platform. Tested on Linux, OpenSolaris, OS X and Windows. Ubuntu 
repository FTW.


I'd be happy to give a presentation to ChiPy on "Advanced Caching with 
Prudence". Even if you never use Prudence, you might get jealous and try 
to implement some of these tricks in your own platform of choice.


Can I get a +1?


A future presentation could also be about Scripturian, the underlying 
library that makes Jython work well in highly concurrent environments. I 
had to do a lot of hacking in the Jython source code, and learn things 
that no man should have to know.


Love,

Tal

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From jonathan.hayward at pobox.com  Wed Sep 22 23:45:43 2010
From: jonathan.hayward at pobox.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:45:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Update - need help?
Message-ID: <AANLkTikvr+K4cpfgz-cMhP6i7dkr87ZAHQh20pJ4TWwA@mail.gmail.com>

I've just released a Django open source intranet employee photo
directory<http://JonathansCorner.com/directory/>
.

I've also attached my resume; does anyone need Python/web help?

-- 
? Jonathan Hayward, jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
? http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward
? Senior Python & web developer with interest in usability
? Ajax, Django, jQuery, Python, UI, Usability, XHTML
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From wscullin at alcf.anl.gov  Thu Sep 23 23:51:02 2010
From: wscullin at alcf.anl.gov (William Scullin)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:51:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Chef
In-Reply-To: <4C9B6155.2070404@threecrickets.com>
References: <AANLkTimzwqbtwApk5N4R2GU_AZS1DcgW=1uwcD-XAyW0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9AED9D.10306@threecrickets.com>
	<AANLkTi=__g9hroo4OSA7Vir5QBS+WXRDUkbMiJd6twmZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C9B6155.2070404@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=3VxFr9w+F+XB2W1ADZ+MSf668xXYJ7gimUw-j@mail.gmail.com>

For puppet type roles, at work we use bcfg2. For many of our local
projects, I've really liked Fabric:

http://docs.fabfile.org/0.9.2/

I've also been playing with Kokki for some personal work:
http://samuelks.com/kokki/index.html

Overall, I guess the real question is: what are you trying to do and
at what scale?

- William


On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
> ?Sure, you can write your scripts in any language. But, what of your script
> uses a Python 2.6 feature and you happen to be deploying to a platform that
> has 2.4? Welcome to the world of today, of major Linux distributions.
>
> Of course, I'm recommending Bash here, but it has a lot of the same
> problems. There are differences between *BSD, GNU and Solaris userland that
> can make or break. I guess I prefer Bash because these differences are old,
> documented and stable. "Agile" languages are quickly moving targets for
> deployment.
>
> My problem with Chef was first installing it: getting dependencies at their
> right versions, and then making sure that clients and servers had the exact
> same version, because Chef spits out strange error messages if it doesn't.
>
> The promise of Chef/Puppet is really nice -- to abstract the painful
> differences between deployment targets. But I think the projects themselves
> have a ways to go.
>
> -Tal
>
> On 09/23/2010 09:03 AM, sheila miguez wrote:
>>
>> what happened?
>>
>> also, I thought people also wrote recipes in python?
>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2010 1:05 AM, "Tal Liron" <tal.liron at threecrickets.com
>>> <mailto:tal.liron at threecrickets.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I had miserable experience getting Chef to actually work. And Puppet,
>>> too, for that matter. If you have to deploy your deployment solution,
>>> something is very wrong.
>>>
>>> Bash is ugly but portable and works. It pays to learn it well.
>>>
>>> -Tal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/22/2010 08:12 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone here love Chef? Thinking about tossin...
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From meghan at 10gen.com  Wed Sep 29 20:47:24 2010
From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:47:24 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] MongoDB Conference in Chicago on October 20
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik3==2YGr3LzoZy+y6u=8ZP_4DM3eX0-b48AH1x@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik3==2YGr3LzoZy+y6u=8ZP_4DM3eX0-b48AH1x@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikrzc_uZiP1ebzWnjuauHkYcnt2LpC=KEcM090Y@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Early bird pricing for this event ends tomorrow. Hope to see some of you there!

-Meghan

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Meghan Gill <meghan at 10gen.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I thought you might be interested in this upcoming event about MongoDB.
>
> -Meghan
>
> Mongo Chicago!
>
> Register at http://bit.ly/mongochicago
>
> ABOUT
> Mongo Chicago will explore development with the open source,
> non-relational, document-oriented database MongoDB. The conference
> will feature 20 different sessions, on schema design, indexing,
> administration, replication, sharding, and more. In addition to these
> topics, attendees can learn about MongoDB in the real world through a
> series of presentations about production deployments at companies like
> the Chicago Tribune, Gathers.us, Totsy, Gitana Software, and Harmony.
>
> TIME
> Wednesday, October 20, 2010
> 9am - 6pm
>
> LOCATION
> Illinois Institute of Technology
> McCormick Tribune Campus Center
> 3201 South State
> Chicago IL, 60616
> http://www.ccc.iit.edu/
>
> REGISTER
> http://bit.ly/mongochicago
> $50 early bird until September 30 / $100 general admission / $30 students
>
> HASHTAG
> #mongochicago
>
> SPONSOR
> 10gen develops and supports MongoDB - the open source, high
> performance, scalable, document-oriented database. 10gen delivers
> technical support, professional services, and training for
> commercial-grade deployments of MongoDB.
>
> CONTACT
> Meghan P Gill
> 10gen/MongoDB
> (866) 237-8815 x7301
> meg at 10gen.com
>

From maney at two14.net  Wed Sep 29 21:02:41 2010
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:02:41 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] MongoDB Conference in Chicago on October 20
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikrzc_uZiP1ebzWnjuauHkYcnt2LpC=KEcM090Y@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTik3==2YGr3LzoZy+y6u=8ZP_4DM3eX0-b48AH1x@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikrzc_uZiP1ebzWnjuauHkYcnt2LpC=KEcM090Y@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100929190241.GA3078@furrr.two14.net>

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 02:47:24PM -0400, Meghan Gill wrote:
> Early bird pricing for this event ends tomorrow. Hope to see some of you there!

There's a fine line, sometimes, between sharing news of upcoming events
of possible interest, and posting commercial advertisements.  Other
times it's as plain as the nose on your face...

-- 
Some people hack for fun, some because they want things their way;
some don't because they can't, and some because they can't be bothered.
Some can make anything work, some could but would rather not,
and some would misconfigure a bowling ball.  -- unknown


From meghan at 10gen.com  Wed Sep 29 22:43:12 2010
From: meghan at 10gen.com (Meghan Gill)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:43:12 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] MongoDB Conference in Chicago on October 20
In-Reply-To: <20100929190241.GA3078@furrr.two14.net>
References: <AANLkTik3==2YGr3LzoZy+y6u=8ZP_4DM3eX0-b48AH1x@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikrzc_uZiP1ebzWnjuauHkYcnt2LpC=KEcM090Y@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100929190241.GA3078@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Ui=BW6Z0kMT63igU0iPr99B=RJzZtZR7T61sU@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, didn't mean to impose. Won't post anymore!

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 02:47:24PM -0400, Meghan Gill wrote:
>> Early bird pricing for this event ends tomorrow. Hope to see some of you there!
>
> There's a fine line, sometimes, between sharing news of upcoming events
> of possible interest, and posting commercial advertisements. ?Other
> times it's as plain as the nose on your face...
>
> --
> Some people hack for fun, some because they want things their way;
> some don't because they can't, and some because they can't be bothered.
> Some can make anything work, some could but would rather not,
> and some would misconfigure a bowling ball. ?-- unknown
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>