From jordanb at hafd.org  Thu Nov  1 03:27:28 2012
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:27:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Got it Re:  opening a file for read in 3.2
In-Reply-To: <1351720433.1236.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1351720433.1236.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5091DE10.2090103@hafd.org>

On 10/31/2012 04:53 PM, Randall Baxley wrote:
> 
> Answer if you want though I got going again.  For some reason .txt did
> not get appended to the file name.
> 
> Randy

Remember that Python is written by Unix guys. There's nothing special
about file extensions on Unix, they're completely arbitrary and
optional. So python will try to open a file with exactly the name you
give it, extension or not.

Two useful tools are os.getcwd() and os.listdir(). The first returns the
path to the current working directory. The second returns a listing of
the files in a directory, as python sees them. So to get a directory
listing from python's perspective, you can do:

import os
print os.listdir(os.getcwd())



From jordanb at hafd.org  Thu Nov  1 03:38:21 2012
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:38:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy at Braintree
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38viPov+LY5sd9Lbvtk3Vt7NxcG_SbWrogsirznq38TSvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38viPov+LY5sd9Lbvtk3Vt7NxcG_SbWrogsirznq38TSvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5091E09D.7090303@hafd.org>

On 10/26/2012 08:22 AM, Brian Ray wrote:
> There has been a lot of excitement on and off the list about our
> November ChiPy meeting. We already have the best hosts and venue over.
> 
> Here is what I am hearing so far...
> 
>  SQLAlchemy (I see +3 for December, yikes!)
>  Stack Overflow excerpts explored  (Adam Forsyth)

Yeah so I'm planning, right now, to present the SQLAlchemy talk in
December, wherever that is.

From agforsyth at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 05:56:15 2012
From: agforsyth at gmail.com (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:56:15 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy at Braintree
In-Reply-To: <5091E09D.7090303@hafd.org>
References: <CANKg38viPov+LY5sd9Lbvtk3Vt7NxcG_SbWrogsirznq38TSvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5091E09D.7090303@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N-FZWEmOPf2Nfr8zg4E9HFVCkEo8pwzG65YywxOXAjn=w@mail.gmail.com>

Bumping this -- I'm hoping for some feedback on what people might be
interested in hearing about next week, either on Stack Overflow or Tornado.

Even if it's just a +1 / -1, please throw it out there.

Adam Forsyth
Braintree


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:

> On 10/26/2012 08:22 AM, Brian Ray wrote:
> > There has been a lot of excitement on and off the list about our
> > November ChiPy meeting. We already have the best hosts and venue over.
> >
> > Here is what I am hearing so far...
> >
> >  SQLAlchemy (I see +3 for December, yikes!)
> >  Stack Overflow excerpts explored  (Adam Forsyth)
>
> Yeah so I'm planning, right now, to present the SQLAlchemy talk in
> December, wherever that is.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brian at python.org  Thu Nov  1 06:46:30 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 00:46:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy at Braintree
In-Reply-To: <CABrs+N-FZWEmOPf2Nfr8zg4E9HFVCkEo8pwzG65YywxOXAjn=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38viPov+LY5sd9Lbvtk3Vt7NxcG_SbWrogsirznq38TSvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5091E09D.7090303@hafd.org>
	<CABrs+N-FZWEmOPf2Nfr8zg4E9HFVCkEo8pwzG65YywxOXAjn=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwqPwDHX17t9YqPANhCaiW9bevNKL430ODQQu=FQwzONiw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Adam Forsyth <agforsyth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bumping this -- I'm hoping for some feedback on what people might be
> interested in hearing about next week, either on Stack Overflow or Tornado.
>
> Even if it's just a +1 / -1, please throw it out there.

-1 to talk about how to use Stack Overflow. Tornado +1.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 14:58:02 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:58:02 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP open for November Meeting at Braintree
Message-ID: <CANKg38upOcKQ=oxLYQpfrs1GG9OMDNjWiVzGSiNrvnc08+L6YA@mail.gmail.com>

Happy November, and I hope you all had a happy Halloween.

RSVP Here -> http://chipy.org

It is a only a week away since today is the 1st!


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Nov  1 18:11:23 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Got it Re: opening a file for read in 3.2
In-Reply-To: <5091DE10.2090103@hafd.org>
References: <1351720433.1236.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<5091DE10.2090103@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZSXOxwPaQm8em5nzTybqjj6CEZTCD0ppOQ8cw6Ag962Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't want to reply to the original
question because I didn't have a windows computer to test out my answers on
thus could not be sure I'd give you a correct answer.

Anyway, another thing to think about, for the future, is that path
delimiters are different on different operating systems. I don't know if
the class covered that or not, but check it out at some point in case you
want to write scripts that can work on different OSs. So instead of using
literal strings where you hard code the path separator, '/', do it
programmatically.

http://docs.python.org/2/library/os.path.html


-- 
sheila
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Thu Nov  1 19:35:06 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 11:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Chicago] Got it Re: opening a file for read in 3.2
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZSXOxwPaQm8em5nzTybqjj6CEZTCD0ppOQ8cw6Ag962Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1351794906.24233.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thank you,
In the lectures they hard coded the file name and path for input and used?tkinter.filedialog.askopenfilename() for output but since that brought up finder I suspected that was not a good idea for a windows machine and I did not know the equivalent import and call in windows.
I am concentrating on learning the language syntax first for at least the next two weeks when I will begin to try and catch up in the Rice class after finishing the U of Toronto class.
Randy

--- On Thu, 11/1/12, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

From: sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Got it Re: opening a file for read in 3.2
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Thursday, November 1, 2012, 12:11 PM


I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't want to reply to the original question because I didn't have a windows computer to test out my answers on thus could not be sure I'd give you a correct answer.



Anyway, another thing to think about, for the future, is that path delimiters are different on different operating systems. I don't know if the class covered that or not, but check it out at some point in case you want to write scripts that can work on different OSs. So instead of using literal strings where you hard code the path separator, '/', do it programmatically.



http://docs.python.org/2/library/os.path.html


-- 
sheila



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Nov  1 21:22:55 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 15:22:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Got it Re: opening a file for read in 3.2
In-Reply-To: <1351794906.24233.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAHCs_rZSXOxwPaQm8em5nzTybqjj6CEZTCD0ppOQ8cw6Ag962Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1351794906.24233.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbrU2PMrcqYgstpOTw=ckpKVi9e7CUvhnN5PDeRZZzACA@mail.gmail.com>

If you are talking about the Interactive Python class at Rice, they
introduce syntax in the first few lectures, so you'd be okay starting with
that class if you are interested in it.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

> I am concentrating on learning the language syntax first for at least the
> next two weeks when I will begin to try and catch up in the Rice class
> after finishing the U of Toronto class.




-- 
sheila
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 02:06:05 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:06:05 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Activism, community, and lightening...
Message-ID: <CANKg38uY-FE2Vwm1PHKmAj3vjdcMJ_nHs=HPCu6v=8bbZcOZcA@mail.gmail.com>

I am thinking it is time we do lightening talks on activism, code projects,
and Python community. I think it will go well with the stack overflow talk
and I found a couple 5-10 minute lightening talkers already. Who else is
in? This is for next Thursday, a week from today. Only good proposals
please. And make it short, sweet, interesting, and fun.

Anything really goes: activism, cyphers, open source, favorite modules,
network neutrality, code projects, lulz, bad moods, cleverness....   Post a
topic here...

BTW, best talk gets a B$G prize.

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
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From syntax47 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 19:44:10 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (syntax)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:44:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
Message-ID: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>

Does anyone use emacs for python prgramming with emacs?I try to find a 
good python plugin for my emacs.And my other question what your gvim and 
emacs file look like?

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:21:09 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:21:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD56BECD95E342009969CF8DE235A4D4@gmail.com>


On Friday, November 2, 2012 at 1:44 PM, syntax wrote:
> Does anyone use emacs for python prgramming with emacs?

I do. 
> I try to find a
> good python plugin for my emacs.

Take a look at https://github.com/gabrielelanaro/emacs-for-python
 
> And my other question what your gvim and
> emacs file look like?

https://github.com/emperorcezar/emacsconfig

init.el is the init
 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org (mailto:Chicago at python.org)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
Cezar Jenkins
(773) 234-8873

Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)







From brian at python.org  Fri Nov  2 20:29:07 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:29:07 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpbOZJN5=Fagvefc2i3sFXHQToD4XiShyvan0Nap7yYmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:44 PM, syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> And my other question what your gvim and emacs
> file look like?

set number
set tabstop=4
set shiftwidth=4
set smarttab
set expandtab
set softtabstop=4
syntax on
colorscheme koehler
set guifont=Consolas:h14
set colorcolumn=79

From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov  2 20:31:12 2012
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:31:12 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone use emacs for python prgramming with emacs?I try to find a
good
> python plugin for my emacs.And my other question what your gvim and emacs
> file look like?

I do.  No plugins, just *nix + XEmacs + python-mode.  The only obviously
Python-related change to my XEmacs init file is:

(add-hook 'python-mode-hook 'turn-on-font-lock)
(add-hook 'font-lock-mode-hook 'turn-on-lazy-lock)

Since most of the editing I do is of Python code, and most of that is to
files under version control, maybe my ediff setup will be indirectly
helpful as well:

(require 'vc)

(let ((ediff-map (make-sparse-keymap)))
  (define-key ctl-x-map "e" ediff-map)
  (define-key ediff-map "r" 'ediff-revision)
  (define-key ediff-map "f" 'ediff-files)
  (define-key ediff-map "d" 'ediff-directories)
  (define-key ediff-map "b" 'ediff-buffers))

I'm (very) old school (been using Emacs since the early 80s, Python since
the mid-90s)...

Skip
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:32:34 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:32:34 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Nov 3: Cereal && Code
In-Reply-To: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uknoXmCEtoXbfKwZsAZovCMVrFHxP6xJvbRfjc5qG5Mw@mail.gmail.com>

Bump, ehh reminder. This looks fun. I will be there.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:

> We're hosting an event for people to just come hack on whatever they
> want to work on:
>
> http://www.cereal-and-code.com/
>
> Make some progress on whatever project you're currently working on,
> meet some other hackers and work on a project with them, eat some
> Golden Grahams, watch some retro Saturday-morning cartoons, and have a
> good time.
>
> This event is targeted toward developers, designers, anyone who builds
> things or has work to do and wants a time/place to hunker down and
> make some progress on their project. There's been some discussion on
> the list recently about a Python bug day on October 27th. We already
> set this up for November 3rd (but didn't promote it until now, oops)
> because we didn't want to get in the way of anybody's Halloween
> parties. So instead of competing with Python bug day, maybe this can
> be a complement to it.
>
> Eric and I (Python and Django developers ourselves) decided to put
> this together because we feel there are a lot of events around Chicago
> for people to schmooze, but not enough events for people who actually
> build stuff to hunker down and hack in the presence of others. As Eric
> says, the coffee-shop circuit can be a lonely existence, and paying
> 100 bucks to go to a hackathon, only to be pitched by idea men who
> want you to build their product for them for free is frustrating.
>
> It's 5 bucks a head, just because we want to buy cereal, milk, bowls,
> and spoons for everyone. The leftover cash is going to go to
> VentureShot, our host, or if they don't care, we'll just take the
> remaining cash and buy beer and scotch for anyone who sticks around
> long enough.
>
> Sign up!
>
> Thanks,
> chad
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:33:23 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:33:23 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Nov 3: Cereal && Code
In-Reply-To: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uH+A7-oS_EMxJRt2Pwv9qnzPHz4mTovyxz6gpdVRYy-g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, ehh, sold out! Unless we code a code from Chad, right ;)


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:

> We're hosting an event for people to just come hack on whatever they
> want to work on:
>
> http://www.cereal-and-code.com/
>
> Make some progress on whatever project you're currently working on,
> meet some other hackers and work on a project with them, eat some
> Golden Grahams, watch some retro Saturday-morning cartoons, and have a
> good time.
>
> This event is targeted toward developers, designers, anyone who builds
> things or has work to do and wants a time/place to hunker down and
> make some progress on their project. There's been some discussion on
> the list recently about a Python bug day on October 27th. We already
> set this up for November 3rd (but didn't promote it until now, oops)
> because we didn't want to get in the way of anybody's Halloween
> parties. So instead of competing with Python bug day, maybe this can
> be a complement to it.
>
> Eric and I (Python and Django developers ourselves) decided to put
> this together because we feel there are a lot of events around Chicago
> for people to schmooze, but not enough events for people who actually
> build stuff to hunker down and hack in the presence of others. As Eric
> says, the coffee-shop circuit can be a lonely existence, and paying
> 100 bucks to go to a hackathon, only to be pitched by idea men who
> want you to build their product for them for free is frustrating.
>
> It's 5 bucks a head, just because we want to buy cereal, milk, bowls,
> and spoons for everyone. The leftover cash is going to go to
> VentureShot, our host, or if they don't care, we'll just take the
> remaining cash and buy beer and scotch for anyone who sticks around
> long enough.
>
> Sign up!
>
> Thanks,
> chad
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov  2 20:45:14 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:45:14 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpbOZJN5=Fagvefc2i3sFXHQToD4XiShyvan0Nap7yYmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpbOZJN5=Fagvefc2i3sFXHQToD4XiShyvan0Nap7yYmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZ-5kAjcsqfZsknsULEztg5S6GHZsp5=YkkMUj=sSQrZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:44 PM, syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And my other question what your gvim and emacs
>> file look like?
>
> set number
> set tabstop=4
> set shiftwidth=4
> set smarttab
> set expandtab
> set softtabstop=4
> syntax on
> colorscheme koehler
> set guifont=Consolas:h14
> set colorcolumn=79

my .vimrc is much larger, but my .gvimrc is

set background=dark
colorscheme koehler
highlight Folded guibg=NONE guifg=DarkGrey

"set colorcolumn=79,120
highlight colorcolumn ctermbg=DarkBlue


I played around colorcolumn, but it was driving me crazy. If I could
have it be a very thin line with a subtle color I might use it again.

-- 
sheila

From brian at python.org  Fri Nov  2 21:06:55 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:06:55 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ-5kAjcsqfZsknsULEztg5S6GHZsp5=YkkMUj=sSQrZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpbOZJN5=Fagvefc2i3sFXHQToD4XiShyvan0Nap7yYmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ-5kAjcsqfZsknsULEztg5S6GHZsp5=YkkMUj=sSQrZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpM97fn1D=ifQM2DHCd7q4MD_a_rgYD4koY=CdZY0eUOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:45 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> I played around colorcolumn, but it was driving me crazy. If I could
> have it be a very thin line with a subtle color I might use it again.

Visual Studio's version of "colorcolumn" is great. It's a very thin
dotted line in whatever RGB value you choose.

Visual Studio + Python Tools for Visual Studio + ViEmu = great combo

From syntax47 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:07:10 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (syntax)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:07:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2012 02:31 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > Does anyone use emacs for python prgramming with emacs?I try to find 
> a good
> > python plugin for my emacs.And my other question what your gvim and 
> emacs
> > file look like?
>
> I do.  No plugins, just *nix + XEmacs + python-mode.  The only 
> obviously Python-related change to my XEmacs init file is:
>
> (add-hook 'python-mode-hook 'turn-on-font-lock)
> (add-hook 'font-lock-mode-hook 'turn-on-lazy-lock)
>
> Since most of the editing I do is of Python code, and most of that is 
> to files under version control, maybe my ediff setup will be 
> indirectly helpful as well:
>
> (require 'vc)
>
> (let ((ediff-map (make-sparse-keymap)))
>   (define-key ctl-x-map "e" ediff-map)
>   (define-key ediff-map "r" 'ediff-revision)
>   (define-key ediff-map "f" 'ediff-files)
>   (define-key ediff-map "d" 'ediff-directories)
>   (define-key ediff-map "b" 'ediff-buffers))
>
> I'm (very) old school (been using Emacs since the early 80s, Python 
> since the mid-90s)...
>
> Skip
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago





Is there away i can make the emacs look like  a python IDE?

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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:11:48 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:11:48 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F95EA9038C1481383162126162825D4@gmail.com>

On Friday, November 2, 2012 at 3:07 PM, syntax wrote:
> Is there away i can make the emacs look like a python IDE?
> 
You'll have to be a _lot_ more specific than that. Emacs is wonderful in that it can do almost anything. Of course, with that, means you have to define what anything is.
 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org (mailto:Chicago at python.org)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov  2 21:15:09 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:15:09 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpM97fn1D=ifQM2DHCd7q4MD_a_rgYD4koY=CdZY0eUOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpbOZJN5=Fagvefc2i3sFXHQToD4XiShyvan0Nap7yYmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ-5kAjcsqfZsknsULEztg5S6GHZsp5=YkkMUj=sSQrZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpM97fn1D=ifQM2DHCd7q4MD_a_rgYD4koY=CdZY0eUOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_ragm562R0iKUn52WaZygX-mjuGmHiBW0OxYFBiXOwAKMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:45 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>> I played around colorcolumn, but it was driving me crazy. If I could
>> have it be a very thin line with a subtle color I might use it again.
>
> Visual Studio's version of "colorcolumn" is great. It's a very thin
> dotted line in whatever RGB value you choose.
>
> Visual Studio + Python Tools for Visual Studio + ViEmu = great combo

It's probably nicer than the equivalent in Eclipse. I have Eclipse
with Vimode and eclim. I never really got in to it for python editing.
I use it for java, and the coding standard here seems to be 120. So,
in vim I was hoping to have a subtle gutter at 120 for if I opened
java files, and 80 for everything else.

and if the OP didn't mean only gvimrc files, I have
https://github.com/codersquid/vimdots but my dot files are rather
messily organized.

-- 
sheila

From brian at python.org  Fri Nov  2 21:19:50 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:19:50 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:07 PM, syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there away i can make the emacs look like  a python IDE?

I don't know anything about emacs, but you'll have to specify what you
want out of an IDE. At least with Vim, people add all sorts of stuff
like code completion, on-the-fly syntax/lint checking, file browsers,
etc.

So, what is emacs (or any editor) not doing that you want it to do?

From syntax47 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:23:54 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (syntax)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2012 03:19 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:07 PM, syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there away i can make the emacs look like  a python IDE?
> I don't know anything about emacs, but you'll have to specify what you
> want out of an IDE. At least with Vim, people add all sorts of stuff
> like code completion, on-the-fly syntax/lint checking, file browsers,
> etc.
>
> So, what is emacs (or any editor) not doing that you want it to do?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
Sorry about that i mean something like this would be good.

http://sontek.net/blog/detail/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide

Can you do the save with emacs to?

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:25:43 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:25:43 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>

On Friday, November 2, 2012 at 3:23 PM, syntax wrote:
> Sorry about that i mean something like this would be good.
> 
> http://sontek.net/blog/detail/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide
> 
> Can you do the save with emacs to?

Yes. If you look at the link in my original reply, it has a package that will do that.
 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org (mailto:Chicago at python.org)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




From syntax47 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:27:53 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (syntax)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:27:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
	<C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50942CC9.8090705@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2012 03:25 PM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
> On Friday, November 2, 2012 at 3:23 PM, syntax wrote:
>> Sorry about that i mean something like this would be good.
>>
>> http://sontek.net/blog/detail/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide
>>
>> Can you do the save with emacs to?
> Yes. If you look at the link in my original reply, it has a package that will do that.
>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org (mailto:Chicago at python.org)
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
You mean the emacs-for python package?


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 21:30:51 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <50942CC9.8090705@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
	<C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>
	<50942CC9.8090705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C8F83A29D9449E98657A92C95E66E53@gmail.com>

On Friday, November 2, 2012 at 3:27 PM, syntax wrote:
> You mean the emacs-for python package?
> 
Correct. I don't know if it does everything that other does, but there hasn't been anything I've run across that a package for emacs doesn't exist. Including: Jabber, IRC, Calendar, and Image Editing.

A joke exists. "Emacs is a great operating system in need of a good editor"
 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org (mailto:Chicago at python.org)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Nov  2 21:45:38 2012
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:45:38 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <0C8F83A29D9449E98657A92C95E66E53@gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
	<C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>
	<50942CC9.8090705@gmail.com>
	<0C8F83A29D9449E98657A92C95E66E53@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UzRKhbHuzzvT5pGC_wscwR560yEY8-_ku-=cR=LvTJLLA@mail.gmail.com>

> A joke exists. "Emacs is a great operating system in need of a good editor"

Or:

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TheKitchenSink

Skip

From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:15:13 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:15:13 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] python emacs question
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UzRKhbHuzzvT5pGC_wscwR560yEY8-_ku-=cR=LvTJLLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5094147A.5020705@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UycDLX1UUGR-6zDCun252NxBNGJZd6h3Ye_VgSBXDEDjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<509427EE.7000700@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpXUfvhtQ7dg=5awFaB8g0DNVptZtJuzdYDeV8sZukHrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50942BDA.6050201@gmail.com>
	<C174F8DE3C5E49EDA0BDAA7D8F42D9F5@gmail.com>
	<50942CC9.8090705@gmail.com>
	<0C8F83A29D9449E98657A92C95E66E53@gmail.com>
	<CANc-5UzRKhbHuzzvT5pGC_wscwR560yEY8-_ku-=cR=LvTJLLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHtcoGVNj5EJ4CjD6ci4a_PjXzOYTkYj0EwvhdiYrs-5qg@mail.gmail.com>

Cezar's link mentions rope (http://rope.sourceforge.net/) which is a really
great tool whether you're using emacs, vim, sublime or any other editor
with a plugin. I highly recommend it.

--matt

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> > A joke exists. "Emacs is a great operating system in need of a good
> editor"
>
> Or:
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TheKitchenSink
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From chad at glendenin.com  Sat Nov  3 00:17:28 2012
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:17:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Nov 3: Cereal && Code
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uH+A7-oS_EMxJRt2Pwv9qnzPHz4mTovyxz6gpdVRYy-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38uH+A7-oS_EMxJRt2Pwv9qnzPHz4mTovyxz6gpdVRYy-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABetDDtYm=aeDOe_URL_mrz627FRheS2ivoUt92r9JXZe7dO7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Chipsters,

Yes, we're thrilled by the turnout that we're expecting for tomorrow. It's
going to be a pretty full house, but if you wait to come and weren't able
to get a ticket, shoot me an email (off list :) and we'll see what we can
do for you. The magic word is "chipy."

Thanks!
chad



On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, ehh, sold out! Unless we code a code from Chad, right ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com>wrote:
>
>> We're hosting an event for people to just come hack on whatever they
>> want to work on:
>>
>> http://www.cereal-and-code.com/
>>
>> Make some progress on whatever project you're currently working on,
>> meet some other hackers and work on a project with them, eat some
>> Golden Grahams, watch some retro Saturday-morning cartoons, and have a
>> good time.
>>
>> This event is targeted toward developers, designers, anyone who builds
>> things or has work to do and wants a time/place to hunker down and
>> make some progress on their project. There's been some discussion on
>> the list recently about a Python bug day on October 27th. We already
>> set this up for November 3rd (but didn't promote it until now, oops)
>> because we didn't want to get in the way of anybody's Halloween
>> parties. So instead of competing with Python bug day, maybe this can
>> be a complement to it.
>>
>> Eric and I (Python and Django developers ourselves) decided to put
>> this together because we feel there are a lot of events around Chicago
>> for people to schmooze, but not enough events for people who actually
>> build stuff to hunker down and hack in the presence of others. As Eric
>> says, the coffee-shop circuit can be a lonely existence, and paying
>> 100 bucks to go to a hackathon, only to be pitched by idea men who
>> want you to build their product for them for free is frustrating.
>>
>> It's 5 bucks a head, just because we want to buy cereal, milk, bowls,
>> and spoons for everyone. The leftover cash is going to go to
>> VentureShot, our host, or if they don't care, we'll just take the
>> remaining cash and buy beer and scotch for anyone who sticks around
>> long enough.
>>
>> Sign up!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> chad
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From paul at paulmayassociates.com  Sat Nov  3 16:43:10 2012
From: paul at paulmayassociates.com (Paul May)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 15:43:10 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] Python contract - immeditate need - Chiago area
Message-ID: <138020306682180@184.173.221.31:26>

Python Contractor - North Suburbs. Apply here: http://tinyurl.com/brlm2k6
 Should be local to Chicago Area. 
 Rate is open based on exp. Will do w2 or corp to corp.
 Duration is at least 2 mos.
 They need solid python exp, someone who can communicate with clients and developers ideally. 
 Job Summary:
 Company builds web-based software for the Construction industry. We are the recognized leader in our field with over 75,000 users. As a Python Developer, you will develop the next-generation of the company's proprietary software and have the unique opportunity to directly impact the business results. 
 Essential Duties:
  Write server-side code for web-applications, create high-volume production applications, and develop prototypes quickly 
  Working with Web Services and the development of software application and features. 
  Design, develop, code, test, implementation and support of all phases of the software development lifecycle using Python.
  Work collaboratively with other internal development teams, Product teams and QA teams on the design and integration of new software and features.
Requirements:
A minimum of one year of solid GUI or server side web-application Python software development experience. Any Django a plus. 
Solid understanding of object oriented concepts, using formal development methods. (Experience with agile/test driven methodologies a plus). 
Any Experience developing robust, secure, complex, scalable, high volume, commercial-grade web applications a plus.
Should have some database programming with PostgreSQL, SQLAlchemy or Twisted. 
Financial and business workflow development experience. 
Expertise with all phases of the software development lifecycle, including requirements analysis, design, coding, testing, implementation, and support. 
Experience working in a collaborative team environment. 
Excellent verbal and written communication skills.

Paul
v 708.479.1111 
c 312.925.1294
Paul May & Associates (PMA)
Connecting Talent to Opportunity
paul at paulmayassociates.com 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates 
http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc 
www.paulmayassociates.com 

(The following links were included with this email:)
http://tinyurl.com/brlm2k6

mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc

http://www.paulmayassociates.com/



(The following links were included with this email:)
http://tinyurl.com/brlm2k6

mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://twitter.com/paulmayassoc

http://www.paulmayassociates.com/


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From cbc at unc.edu  Sat Nov  3 22:02:01 2012
From: cbc at unc.edu (Chris Calloway)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 17:02:01 -0400
Subject: [Chicago] Django Fundamentals Bootcamp
Message-ID: <50958649.7040100@unc.edu>

Triangle Python Users Group members Caktus Consulting Group announce 
Django Fundamentals Bootcamp, a two day beginners course for anyone who 
wants to learn the basics of building a Django web application. Designed 
for developers with basic programming experience, this course will 
provide you with the essentials needed to build and develop a simple 
Django application in a hands-on and interactive setting. The training 
will focus on the construction of a crossword drill application to 
illustrate Django?s architecture and versatility.

Django Fundamentals Bootcamp takes place Saturday, Janaury 12th and 
Sunday, January 13, 2013 at Caktus, 209 Lloyd St, Suite 110, Carrboro, 
NC. Tickets are $550 for the early bird special through November 12, 
2012, $700 thereafter, and include coffee, drinks, snacks, and two 
lunches. For more information visit:

http://www.djangobootcamp.com

-- 
Sincerely,

Chris Calloway http://nccoos.org/Members/cbc
office: 3313 Venable Hall   phone: (919) 599-3530
mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599

From heflin.rosst at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 23:00:46 2012
From: heflin.rosst at gmail.com (Ross Heflin)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:00:46 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Nov 3: Cereal && Code
In-Reply-To: <CABetDDtYm=aeDOe_URL_mrz627FRheS2ivoUt92r9JXZe7dO7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABetDDstgJFxS4CdwsDukcQrgSzPXzDLDSjg-hfjia0nn2ojqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38uH+A7-oS_EMxJRt2Pwv9qnzPHz4mTovyxz6gpdVRYy-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABetDDtYm=aeDOe_URL_mrz627FRheS2ivoUt92r9JXZe7dO7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGy=3C7jT7XAEc_HYGSdofZi8aC3QDSxc0PzL9aFyQKzr6XK0A@mail.gmail.com>

sorry I missed (laundry day).  +1 for something similar in future!
On Nov 2, 2012 6:18 PM, "Chad Glendenin" <chad at glendenin.com> wrote:

> Hey Chipsters,
>
> Yes, we're thrilled by the turnout that we're expecting for tomorrow. It's
> going to be a pretty full house, but if you wait to come and weren't able
> to get a ticket, shoot me an email (off list :) and we'll see what we can
> do for you. The magic word is "chipy."
>
> Thanks!
> chad
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh, ehh, sold out! Unless we code a code from Chad, right ;)
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Chad Glendenin <chad at glendenin.com>wrote:
>>
>>> We're hosting an event for people to just come hack on whatever they
>>> want to work on:
>>>
>>> http://www.cereal-and-code.com/
>>>
>>> Make some progress on whatever project you're currently working on,
>>> meet some other hackers and work on a project with them, eat some
>>> Golden Grahams, watch some retro Saturday-morning cartoons, and have a
>>> good time.
>>>
>>> This event is targeted toward developers, designers, anyone who builds
>>> things or has work to do and wants a time/place to hunker down and
>>> make some progress on their project. There's been some discussion on
>>> the list recently about a Python bug day on October 27th. We already
>>> set this up for November 3rd (but didn't promote it until now, oops)
>>> because we didn't want to get in the way of anybody's Halloween
>>> parties. So instead of competing with Python bug day, maybe this can
>>> be a complement to it.
>>>
>>> Eric and I (Python and Django developers ourselves) decided to put
>>> this together because we feel there are a lot of events around Chicago
>>> for people to schmooze, but not enough events for people who actually
>>> build stuff to hunker down and hack in the presence of others. As Eric
>>> says, the coffee-shop circuit can be a lonely existence, and paying
>>> 100 bucks to go to a hackathon, only to be pitched by idea men who
>>> want you to build their product for them for free is frustrating.
>>>
>>> It's 5 bucks a head, just because we want to buy cereal, milk, bowls,
>>> and spoons for everyone. The leftover cash is going to go to
>>> VentureShot, our host, or if they don't care, we'll just take the
>>> remaining cash and buy beer and scotch for anyone who sticks around
>>> long enough.
>>>
>>> Sign up!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> chad
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 14:47:16 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:47:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Lightening Talks
Message-ID: <CANKg38ssDwLAAmGkpxXAfTo+mr-9XMjoLN+aLTwH4YYfL9YR9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Please send my your name /topic if you want to do a lightening talk on
Thursday. I am compiling a complete list and will publish with the meeting
announcement.

Also, be sure to RSVP http://chipy.org

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
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From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Mon Nov  5 16:38:57 2012
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:38:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Donate to MediaGoblin, get a chance to go to PyCon!
Message-ID: <87a9uwxdny.fsf@grumps.lan>

Heya all!

I've aready done a post here before about MediaGoblin's campaign:

  http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html

... but this morning I've got a huge announcement that's highly relevant to
here!

  http://mediagoblin.org/news/campaign-pycon-giveaway.html

That's right!  Donate to MediaGoblin, get a chance at free tickets to
PyCon!  (In addition to a lot of other sweet stuff already... not to
mention supporting the future of python based, decentralized free and
open source software media publishing!)

There's never been a better time to donate as a pythonista!  We'd also
appreciate with help spreading the word to other python folks about
this!

We're in our last week, and we've got a ways to go still.  We're not
doing an all-or-nothing approach so if we don't make it 100% it's not
the end of the world, but not making it as far as we can would really be
a missed opportunity!

Thanks all!
 - Chris

From syntax47 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 21:18:20 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (Syntax Syntax)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:18:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
Message-ID: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just wanted to know if any of you use skype at all or irc?
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From brian at python.org  Mon Nov  5 21:21:43 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:21:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just wanted to know if any of you use skype at all or irc?

Yes.

From syntax47 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 21:25:07 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (Syntax Syntax)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:25:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I just wanted to know if any of you use skype at all or irc?
>
> Yes.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

I just look for some skype and irc to talk to.Don't have to much freinds on
skype.:)
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From brian at imagescape.com  Mon Nov  5 23:01:48 2012
From: brian at imagescape.com (Brian Moloney)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:01:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Djangonauts meetup this Wednesday
Message-ID: <CAJ_3hfr3+GfVDGNt=CKn8t_efUv0yP=s4mD6LfLvPisY47zk8A@mail.gmail.com>

Start your week off right with a Chicago Djangonauts Meetup.

Wednesday, November 7, 2012 @ 6:30p
Imaginary Landscape office
5121 N. Ravenswood Avenue
Chicago, IL

Topics:

+ Dustin Lacewell will be presenting about testing using Django Nose.
+ Matt Dennewitz will be talking about his large Django deployment
(4mm+ pv/day) at pitchfork.com and how they do things.

As always, good beer, soda and pizza will be provided.

For those of you who haven't been to Imaginary, there is free street
parking out front.  Also, it is bike friendly, close to the UPN
Ravenswood station, fairly close to Brown Damen and Red Argyle along
with lots of buses.

Please RSVP to one of the following links.

http://www.facebook.com/events/469476556438195/
~or~
http://www.chicagodjango.com (use the contact form to RSVP)


Hope to see you Wednesday!

Brian

-- 
Brian J. Moloney
Managing Partner

Imaginary Landscape, LLC
Web Design | Development | Strategy
(877) 275-9144 toll free

http://imagescape.com
http://chicagodjango.com
http://twitter.com/Brian_Moloney

From itsrag at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 02:42:47 2012
From: itsrag at gmail.com (Raghavan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:42:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order functions
Message-ID: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to implement a mapstream
class MapStream(Stream):
    def __init__(self, fn, stream):
        super(MapStream, self).__init__()
        self.fn = fn
        self.stream = stream

    def popNext(self):
        val = self.stream.popNext()
        return self.fn(val)

    def popN(self,num_N):
        n_poped_list = ()
        while num_N:
          *n_poped_list.add(self.popNext()) #Error line*
            num_N -= 1
        return n_poped_list


The popN function is throwing an error stating "*AttributeError: 'tuple'
object has no attribute 'append'*" in the underlined line above.

Please help me out to figure out this issue.

-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Raghavan
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Nov  6 02:48:47 2012
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSShf2y8ZoU5-3EnMHqcVs3WsQWALkmea3zdYfJ3VSF+s7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:

> n_poped_list = ()


n_poped_list = []

try that completely untested unguaranteed quickie.

-- 
Carl K
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From itsrag at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 02:55:24 2012
From: itsrag at gmail.com (Raghavan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:55:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSShf2y8ZoU5-3EnMHqcVs3WsQWALkmea3zdYfJ3VSF+s7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADmzSShf2y8ZoU5-3EnMHqcVs3WsQWALkmea3zdYfJ3VSF+s7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADipMZMfs202URY6xCO7yP=6F5O7=A0VLoFiWpR+ckyF9LpuMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Your quickie worked out!!! :)

Thanks for the help...


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> n_poped_list = ()
>
>
> n_poped_list = []
>
> try that completely untested unguaranteed quickie.
>
> --
> Carl K
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Raghavan KL
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov  6 03:04:24 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:04:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
Message-ID: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>

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From brian at python.org  Tue Nov  6 04:16:52 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 21:16:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwrPw79JOfv7GyAGtNhaQgyWCd1RuBAdVzWCyaRW1AYf+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to implement a mapstream
> class MapStream(Stream):
>     def __init__(self, fn, stream):
>         super(MapStream, self).__init__()
>         self.fn = fn
>         self.stream = stream
>
>     def popNext(self):
>         val = self.stream.popNext()
>         return self.fn(val)
>
>     def popN(self,num_N):
>         n_poped_list = ()
>         while num_N:
>           n_poped_list.add(self.popNext()) #Error line
>             num_N -= 1
>         return n_poped_list
>
>
> The popN function is throwing an error stating "AttributeError: 'tuple'
> object has no attribute 'append'" in the underlined line above.
>
> Please help me out to figure out this issue.

Although Carl already answered, make sure you put accurate error
messages in your questions. That error message couldn't have come from
that code.

From itsrag at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 06:54:51 2012
From: itsrag at gmail.com (Raghavan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:54:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwrPw79JOfv7GyAGtNhaQgyWCd1RuBAdVzWCyaRW1AYf+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwrPw79JOfv7GyAGtNhaQgyWCd1RuBAdVzWCyaRW1AYf+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADipMZML+J-1rgfjrdbDipe0Y_qeip7dLKUAODW96oLQ_m+VcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brian,

Thanks I will do so but the error which I have mentioned was rectified by
the change which Carl suggested. I am not sure what you mean by the error
message doesn't correspond to the code snippet which I have posted.

The interpreter pointed out the above marked line number and showed me the
same error message which I have posted.

Thanks.


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am trying to implement a mapstream
> > class MapStream(Stream):
> >     def __init__(self, fn, stream):
> >         super(MapStream, self).__init__()
> >         self.fn = fn
> >         self.stream = stream
> >
> >     def popNext(self):
> >         val = self.stream.popNext()
> >         return self.fn(val)
> >
> >     def popN(self,num_N):
> >         n_poped_list = ()
> >         while num_N:
> >           n_poped_list.add(self.popNext()) #Error line
> >             num_N -= 1
> >         return n_poped_list
> >
> >
> > The popN function is throwing an error stating "AttributeError: 'tuple'
> > object has no attribute 'append'" in the underlined line above.
> >
> > Please help me out to figure out this issue.
>
> Although Carl already answered, make sure you put accurate error
> messages in your questions. That error message couldn't have come from
> that code.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Thanks and Regards,
Raghavan KL
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From brian at python.org  Tue Nov  6 07:08:49 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 00:08:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADipMZML+J-1rgfjrdbDipe0Y_qeip7dLKUAODW96oLQ_m+VcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADipMZPkzzW3cTQfO6hw7sEp2pNzXCJqAZcbivfguL5r7yuVKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwrPw79JOfv7GyAGtNhaQgyWCd1RuBAdVzWCyaRW1AYf+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADipMZML+J-1rgfjrdbDipe0Y_qeip7dLKUAODW96oLQ_m+VcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoKEjoQEQjy+pJfaFQRfUo3iAKQuzwaeL9x94D7dZAq_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:54 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> Thanks I will do so but the error which I have mentioned was rectified by
> the change which Carl suggested. I am not sure what you mean by the error
> message doesn't correspond to the code snippet which I have posted.

The original code calls tuple.add, but the exception message is for an
append method.

From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Tue Nov  6 10:44:12 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 01:44:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSShf2y8ZoU5-3EnMHqcVs3WsQWALkmea3zdYfJ3VSF+s7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352195052.52135.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thank you for asking this. ?It brings me to ask if there is a syntax card for Python. ?Yes, I do know about all of the online helps and docs but I used to find when beginning to write in a new language that a card the size of what was called an IBM card with syntax printed on each side very helpful.
Oh, and Carl's answer was also my first thought.
Randy

--- On Mon, 11/5/12, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

From: Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order functions
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Monday, November 5, 2012, 7:48 PM



On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:


 n_poped_list = ()
 n_poped_list = []

try that completely untested unguaranteed quickie.

-- 
Carl K


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Tue Nov  6 10:59:29 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 01:59:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order
	functions
In-Reply-To: <CADipMZML+J-1rgfjrdbDipe0Y_qeip7dLKUAODW96oLQ_m+VcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352195969.67371.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I thought there might be something to learn if indeed add caused it to throw an error for append.
Randy

--- On Mon, 11/5/12, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] AttributeError on implementation of high order functions
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Monday, November 5, 2012, 11:54 PM

Hi Brian,
Thanks I will do so but the error which I have mentioned was rectified by the change which Carl suggested. I am not sure what you mean by the error message doesn't correspond to the code snippet which I have posted.


The?interpreter?pointed out the above marked line number and showed me the same error message which I have posted.
Thanks.



On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Raghavan <itsrag at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am trying to implement a mapstream

> class MapStream(Stream):

> ? ? def __init__(self, fn, stream):

> ? ? ? ? super(MapStream, self).__init__()

> ? ? ? ? self.fn = fn

> ? ? ? ? self.stream = stream

>

> ? ? def popNext(self):

> ? ? ? ? val = self.stream.popNext()

> ? ? ? ? return self.fn(val)

>

> ? ? def popN(self,num_N):

> ? ? ? ? n_poped_list = ()

> ? ? ? ? while num_N:

> ? ? ? ? ? n_poped_list.add(self.popNext()) #Error line

> ? ? ? ? ? ? num_N -= 1

> ? ? ? ? return n_poped_list

>

>

> The popN function is throwing an error stating "AttributeError: 'tuple'

> object has no attribute 'append'" in the underlined line above.

>

> Please help me out to figure out this issue.



Although Carl already answered, make sure you put accurate error

messages in your questions. That error message couldn't have come from

that code.

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
Thanks and Regards,Raghavan KL




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 12:49:17 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 05:49:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHscYdotTtB24ha_982eNtEyMYf3hZrtCUNzD8-V7DcyKA@mail.gmail.com>

I really enjoyed the previous talk on vala and gobject, so +1.


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  Hey Pythoners,
>
> If you remember, a while ago I have a ChiPy talk about GObject, and how it
> makes it very easy to create binary C libraries that immediately support
> Python without any special bindings layer. I also gave a short introduction
> to Vala, a C#-inspired language based on GObject that makes it especially
> pleasurable to create those C binaries (it generates C code; there is no
> virtual machine or "runtime" involved). Finally, I also mentioned Genie,
> which is a Python-inspired dialect of Vala:
>
> https://live.gnome.org/Genie
>
> Since then, I've evaluated Genie and am ready to give a talk about it
> someday. Genie is exciting to Python programmers for a few reasons:
>
> 1) If Python isn't fast enough for your needs, you can optimize
> bottlenecks by "dropping" to Genie and then elegantly call that code from
> Python. Avoid paradigm switching.
> 2) Need to run Python on your embedded toaster? Genie compiles to standard
> ANSI C and is as portable as anything.
> 3) If you're writing a Python library, but want to allow it to be used
> from many other languages (Ruby, JS, C++, etc.) then Genie might be better.
> 4) If you're not actually using much of the Python standard libraries or
> ecosystem, there are many advantages in writing your application from
> scratch in Genie. This is actually what I'm working on right now.
>
> There's some comparison to be made with RPython (a PyPy project) ... worth
> a presentation slide:
>
> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
>
> So, let me swim in a bathtub of +1's here.
>
> -Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jp at zavteq.com  Tue Nov  6 15:17:18 2012
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:17:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <CAG0VBHscYdotTtB24ha_982eNtEyMYf3hZrtCUNzD8-V7DcyKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
	<CAG0VBHscYdotTtB24ha_982eNtEyMYf3hZrtCUNzD8-V7DcyKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRQQhnkCDGXmYtKmTsBc-5FLR7JV5sqsB7WVcMk+1HyEvw@mail.gmail.com>

+1
On Nov 6, 2012 5:49 AM, "Matt Bone" <thatmattbone at gmail.com> wrote:

> I really enjoyed the previous talk on vala and gobject, so +1.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>  Hey Pythoners,
>>
>> If you remember, a while ago I have a ChiPy talk about GObject, and how
>> it makes it very easy to create binary C libraries that immediately support
>> Python without any special bindings layer. I also gave a short introduction
>> to Vala, a C#-inspired language based on GObject that makes it especially
>> pleasurable to create those C binaries (it generates C code; there is no
>> virtual machine or "runtime" involved). Finally, I also mentioned Genie,
>> which is a Python-inspired dialect of Vala:
>>
>> https://live.gnome.org/Genie
>>
>> Since then, I've evaluated Genie and am ready to give a talk about it
>> someday. Genie is exciting to Python programmers for a few reasons:
>>
>> 1) If Python isn't fast enough for your needs, you can optimize
>> bottlenecks by "dropping" to Genie and then elegantly call that code from
>> Python. Avoid paradigm switching.
>> 2) Need to run Python on your embedded toaster? Genie compiles to
>> standard ANSI C and is as portable as anything.
>> 3) If you're writing a Python library, but want to allow it to be used
>> from many other languages (Ruby, JS, C++, etc.) then Genie might be better.
>> 4) If you're not actually using much of the Python standard libraries or
>> ecosystem, there are many advantages in writing your application from
>> scratch in Genie. This is actually what I'm working on right now.
>>
>> There's some comparison to be made with RPython (a PyPy project) ...
>> worth a presentation slide:
>>
>> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
>>
>> So, let me swim in a bathtub of +1's here.
>>
>> -Tal
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From sean.michael.farley at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 15:25:27 2012
From: sean.michael.farley at gmail.com (Sean Farley)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:25:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CANH+MCi=MnQ7NPMVsT9V2TkQZ-wM+=WyV4LZb+5T1vq3_zxBVg@mail.gmail.com>

Definitely +1

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
> Hey Pythoners,
>
> If you remember, a while ago I have a ChiPy talk about GObject, and how it
> makes it very easy to create binary C libraries that immediately support
> Python without any special bindings layer. I also gave a short introduction
> to Vala, a C#-inspired language based on GObject that makes it especially
> pleasurable to create those C binaries (it generates C code; there is no
> virtual machine or "runtime" involved). Finally, I also mentioned Genie,
> which is a Python-inspired dialect of Vala:
>
> https://live.gnome.org/Genie
>
> Since then, I've evaluated Genie and am ready to give a talk about it
> someday. Genie is exciting to Python programmers for a few reasons:
>
> 1) If Python isn't fast enough for your needs, you can optimize bottlenecks
> by "dropping" to Genie and then elegantly call that code from Python. Avoid
> paradigm switching.
> 2) Need to run Python on your embedded toaster? Genie compiles to standard
> ANSI C and is as portable as anything.
> 3) If you're writing a Python library, but want to allow it to be used from
> many other languages (Ruby, JS, C++, etc.) then Genie might be better.
> 4) If you're not actually using much of the Python standard libraries or
> ecosystem, there are many advantages in writing your application from
> scratch in Genie. This is actually what I'm working on right now.
>
> There's some comparison to be made with RPython (a PyPy project) ... worth a
> presentation slide:
>
> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
>
> So, let me swim in a bathtub of +1's here.
>
> -Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 19:03:40 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:03:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNR5Eziw8DLJ1h_ugU-U83D69-YMbkeKg+SXL0wQhzXjRg@mail.gmail.com>

i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I just wanted to know if any of you use skype at all or irc?
>>
>> Yes.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
> I just look for some skype and irc to talk to.Don't have to much freinds
> on skype.:)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From luther07 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 19:32:08 2012
From: luther07 at gmail.com (Mark Johnson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:32:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CADQTbuh7-7ABtVj5WvCwG=6iaGrmTkte1ApuMeQV_bWwmha-XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNR5Eziw8DLJ1h_ugU-U83D69-YMbkeKg+SXL0wQhzXjRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADQTbuh7-7ABtVj5WvCwG=6iaGrmTkte1ApuMeQV_bWwmha-XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADQTbuho86ntsv7MEjotZju7kjSiq5xuj0z4fBKFd513da3K5w@mail.gmail.com>

T Wilson,
Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the linux
app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using skype;)

On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:

i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more




On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, ...

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Nov  6 19:35:11 2012
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:35:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
Message-ID: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>

Right, there are much better reasons not to be on Skype.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Mark Johnson <luther07 at gmail.com> wrote:

> T Wilson,
> Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the
> linux app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using skype;)
>
> On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 5, ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Carl K
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From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 20:02:48 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:02:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CADQTbuho86ntsv7MEjotZju7kjSiq5xuj0z4fBKFd513da3K5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNR5Eziw8DLJ1h_ugU-U83D69-YMbkeKg+SXL0wQhzXjRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADQTbuh7-7ABtVj5WvCwG=6iaGrmTkte1ApuMeQV_bWwmha-XA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADQTbuho86ntsv7MEjotZju7kjSiq5xuj0z4fBKFd513da3K5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNQJLiMGiYn-sWT=ztv64rC2TbBoM4Qyd7WhZV=8qREDpQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just use Trillian.  You can use that for skype, irc and another IM chat
program all in one



On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Mark Johnson <luther07 at gmail.com> wrote:

> T Wilson,
> Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the
> linux app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using skype;)
>
> On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 5, ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From agforsyth at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 20:42:57 2012
From: agforsyth at gmail.com (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:42:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy at Braintree
In-Reply-To: <CABrs+N-FZWEmOPf2Nfr8zg4E9HFVCkEo8pwzG65YywxOXAjn=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38viPov+LY5sd9Lbvtk3Vt7NxcG_SbWrogsirznq38TSvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5091E09D.7090303@hafd.org>
	<CABrs+N-FZWEmOPf2Nfr8zg4E9HFVCkEo8pwzG65YywxOXAjn=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N9nk5LrpXt-k2XGPqFfH7PSQ7bGL=FHfsKs2iPFGZ1nwA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm still interested in hearing if there is anything specific about Stack
Overflow people would like me to address. If not, I'll keep the talk short
& sweet.

I'll definitely address Cezar's question.

Adam


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Adam Forsyth <agforsyth at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bumping this -- I'm hoping for some feedback on what people might be
> interested in hearing about next week, either on Stack Overflow or Tornado.
>
> Even if it's just a +1 / -1, please throw it out there.
>
> Adam Forsyth
> Braintree
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/26/2012 08:22 AM, Brian Ray wrote:
>> > There has been a lot of excitement on and off the list about our
>> > November ChiPy meeting. We already have the best hosts and venue over.
>> >
>> > Here is what I am hearing so far...
>> >
>> >  SQLAlchemy (I see +3 for December, yikes!)
>> >  Stack Overflow excerpts explored  (Adam Forsyth)
>>
>> Yeah so I'm planning, right now, to present the SQLAlchemy talk in
>> December, wherever that is.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
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From g at rre.tt  Tue Nov  6 20:43:48 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:43:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is an ongoing problem for me... voice and screen sharing options
that work decently across Windows, Mac, and Linux, but that aren't
proprietary or otherwise horrible.

Any success stories out there?

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:
> Right, there are much better reasons not to be on Skype.
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Mark Johnson <luther07 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> T Wilson,
>> Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the
>> linux app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using skype;)
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 5, ...
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Carl K
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov  6 20:51:34 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:51:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50996A46.7050009@threecrickets.com>

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From lists at durin42.com  Tue Nov  6 20:52:16 2012
From: lists at durin42.com (Augie Fackler)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>

For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble. http://mumble.sf.net.


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> This is an ongoing problem for me... voice and screen sharing options
> that work decently across Windows, Mac, and Linux, but that aren't
> proprietary or otherwise horrible.
>
> Any success stories out there?
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> wrote:
> > Right, there are much better reasons not to be on Skype.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Mark Johnson <luther07 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> T Wilson,
> >> Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the
> >> linux app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using
> skype;)
> >>
> >> On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Nov 5, ...
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carl K
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From mtobis at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 20:53:06 2012
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:53:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <50996A46.7050009@threecrickets.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50996A46.7050009@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY89MXyNK4t9cK3BCPBtiBTkafyOcZQff5WBLPTW4oYjfXQVw@mail.gmail.com>

Google Plus Hangouts?

mt


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  The best Skype experience offered right now is on Android phones and
> tablets with front-facing cameras on wifi. I work with clients around the
> world (and also talk to mom; hi, mom!) and after lots of trial and error
> this works best. Early versions of Skype on Android were a disaster, but
> for a while now they've been decent.
>
> Unfortunately no screen sharing in the usual sense. Well, I can point my
> phone at the computer monitor!
>
>
> On 11/06/2012 01:43 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>
> This is an ongoing problem for me... voice and screen sharing options
> that work decently across Windows, Mac, and Linux, but that aren't
> proprietary or otherwise horrible.
>
> Any success stories out there?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jsudlow at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 20:59:01 2012
From: jsudlow at gmail.com (Jon Sudlow)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:59:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CAKY89MXyNK4t9cK3BCPBtiBTkafyOcZQff5WBLPTW4oYjfXQVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50996A46.7050009@threecrickets.com>
	<CAKY89MXyNK4t9cK3BCPBtiBTkafyOcZQff5WBLPTW4oYjfXQVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADZ0Dv-JYw8owFdSwnjPnXfjjhVbnWDYJLWngFNm3+0mCcB_-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hangouts have worked good!

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Google Plus Hangouts?
>
> mt
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>  The best Skype experience offered right now is on Android phones and
>> tablets with front-facing cameras on wifi. I work with clients around the
>> world (and also talk to mom; hi, mom!) and after lots of trial and error
>> this works best. Early versions of Skype on Android were a disaster, but
>> for a while now they've been decent.
>>
>> Unfortunately no screen sharing in the usual sense. Well, I can point my
>> phone at the computer monitor!
>>
>>
>> On 11/06/2012 01:43 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>
>> This is an ongoing problem for me... voice and screen sharing options
>> that work decently across Windows, Mac, and Linux, but that aren't
>> proprietary or otherwise horrible.
>>
>> Any success stories out there?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Tue Nov  6 21:17:56 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:17:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com> wrote:
> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble. http://mumble.sf.net.

I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
nice pairing sessions.

I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
getting in.

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:19:42 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:19:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509970DE.9000507@gmail.com>

For the internet spaceship game I used to play, we used to use mumble. 
It handled 200+ people easily.

Brian Curtin wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler<lists at durin42.com> wrote:
>>
>> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble. http://mumble.sf.net.
>
>
> I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
> pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
> nice pairing sessions.
>
> I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
> whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
> getting in.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From g at rre.tt  Tue Nov  6 21:20:22 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:20:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com> wrote:
>> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble. http://mumble.sf.net.
>
> I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
> pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
> nice pairing sessions.
>
> I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
> whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
> getting in.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From syntax47 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:42:52 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (Syntax Syntax)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 14:42:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype and irc question
In-Reply-To: <CACoHCNQJLiMGiYn-sWT=ztv64rC2TbBoM4Qyd7WhZV=8qREDpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMAjJ4Tjvg3HF1RJPPg8CAU6px-4BcoE4iTA0UjgNPzoHMDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPKtNpnF3POikqhJA2ER4EmMCCVrsX+JfQzie=DEvW9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ612WOWfrBV7Pn7sN9bB2Re9bf=5MKh1HHKATApV-f5-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNR5Eziw8DLJ1h_ugU-U83D69-YMbkeKg+SXL0wQhzXjRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADQTbuh7-7ABtVj5WvCwG=6iaGrmTkte1ApuMeQV_bWwmha-XA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADQTbuho86ntsv7MEjotZju7kjSiq5xuj0z4fBKFd513da3K5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQJLiMGiYn-sWT=ztv64rC2TbBoM4Qyd7WhZV=8qREDpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACMAjJ70Hzezsp1cTqrxOqg3Po7nqG1+dfBX1GBofDX3od4=Fw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:02 PM, T Wilson <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just use Trillian.  You can use that for skype, irc and another IM chat
> program all in one
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Mark Johnson <luther07 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> T Wilson,
>> Skype is available for linux, but it's not open source. I've used the
>> linux app, 64-bit version. Being on linux is no excuse for not using skype;)
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2012 12:07 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i have both but mostly on IRC since i'm playing with linux more
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 5, ...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> What handle do you guy's use?
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From syntax47 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 22:02:55 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (Syntax Syntax)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 15:02:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>

What wroung have skype.I use the new one with no probs.But have not try
voice yet.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
> sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com> wrote:
> >> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble.
> http://mumble.sf.net.
> >
> > I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
> > pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
> > nice pairing sessions.
> >
> > I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
> > whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
> > getting in.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 14:52:30 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 07:52:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [ANN] ChiPy November Meeting at Braintree
Message-ID: <CANKg38vncyX0aU-2gdBKt82JYEciq2=z4V=NGkqNDnngdtr-Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Come join us *Tomorrow* for our best meeting ever!

When: 7 PM Thursday November 8th, 2012
Where: Braintree 111 North Canal Street #455, Chicago, IL 60606
RSVP: http://chipy.org/meetings/rsvp/55/yes

All are welcome to this loose format lightening talk meeting at Braintree.
Thank you Braintree for hosting ChiPy and providing food and drink for our
meeting https://www.braintreepayments.com/, a great service to simply
payments who also publishes a Python API.

Stack Overflow
By: Adam Forsyth
Answering Python questions on Stack Overflow.

Ansible
By: Matt Bone
Ansible, A Configuration Management System for Mortals.

Calendar App
By: Matt Foster
Chicago tech community calendar

... More potential lightening talks from Pete Fein, Daniel Peters, Brian
Ray.... Please email brianhray (at) gmail.com if you have a lightening talk
or just show up and talk! This is going to be fun.

Best talk gets a B$G prize.

This will indeed be the best meeting you have ever attended anywhere!

RSVP at http://chipy.org/ and feel free to spread the word!

About the group:

ChiPy is made up of people of all levels of programming and Python
knowledge. At every meeting we have had both beginning programmers,
people who are just starting to use Python, as well as experienced
Python programmers. Don't be intimidated about coming to a meeting.

http://chipy.org
http://python.org/
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 16:21:07 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:21:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Pre-meeting meetup for job candidates
Message-ID: <CANKg38sF+pk0NaYczP9heZfMuo59P5RHMESQyGbFJN-sWt8DLw@mail.gmail.com>

For those of you I have been showing around for job placement, please try
to get to make it to tomorrow night's meeting and come early (6:30 if
possible) so we can touch base in person.

Also, if you're interested in being a part of this please hit me up off the
list or see me in person. The initial response has been amazing. We have
over a dozen opportunities and around 7-8 of you looking. It looks like a
lot of this will end up in placement. Good for ChiPy and the community so
thanks for everyone participating. If you have already been placed by ChiPy
and have something "nice" to say, feel free to share your comments here!

Also, companies looking to hire great Python developers let me know and we
will discuss what your looking for and if it is something I think our
candidates would be interested in. You do not need to come to the meeting
unless you wish to contribute extra sponsorship and in that case we will
give you the mic. That is unless you are interested in learning Python or
have something grand to contribute.

Cheers, Brian


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
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From g at rre.tt  Wed Nov  7 18:27:56 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
Message-ID: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>

I need to put together a simple test regime for a series of web apps.
I figure there'd be no shortage of excellent insight here!

Honestly, the best way to describe the requirements would be curl +
regex validation :)

I want to hit a URL, probably a simple GET. Then validate that it's
200. Then apply pattern matching to the response body. Fail if
anything isn't as expected.

Performance isn't an issue, but the ability to run the tests in
parallel might be a nice to have.

This is all command line based. I'm not running it through a browser
and there's no need to execute JavaScript anywhere for any reason.

I've pretty much just talked myself into curl + grep, but any other
thoughts/suggestions?

Garrett

From steve at agilitynerd.com  Wed Nov  7 18:35:42 2012
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:35:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY2=TdJvFEpbFr_73V5=yJ9FTMKX=C2SseKkR_zY4aQ_+J+6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> I need to put together a simple test regime for a series of web apps.
> I figure there'd be no shortage of excellent insight here!
>
> Honestly, the best way to describe the requirements would be curl +
> regex validation :)
>
> I want to hit a URL, probably a simple GET. Then validate that it's
> 200. Then apply pattern matching to the response body. Fail if
> anything isn't as expected.
>
> Performance isn't an issue, but the ability to run the tests in
> parallel might be a nice to have.
>
> This is all command line based. I'm not running it through a browser
> and there's no need to execute JavaScript anywhere for any reason.
>
> I've pretty much just talked myself into curl + grep, but any other
> thoughts/suggestions?
>
> Garrett


Python with urllib2 and re modules in a script should do the trick if you
want serial tests or use them to create a script taking url(s) as arguments
and run the script in batches in parallel.

Handy reference; http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml

Best Regards,
Steve
Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 18:41:14 2012
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 10:41:14 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=TdJvFEpbFr_73V5=yJ9FTMKX=C2SseKkR_zY4aQ_+J+6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=TdJvFEpbFr_73V5=yJ9FTMKX=C2SseKkR_zY4aQ_+J+6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmpWQBcBBGZUc-ZhU=SOMCgAGvFb-AmDWsyywYPpMBo7Mo0vQ@mail.gmail.com>

I do something similar for one of my side projects.

conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("localhost", 5000)
conn.request("PUT", "/users/", json_data, headers )
response = conn.getresponse()
assert response.status == 400, response




On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>> I need to put together a simple test regime for a series of web apps.
>> I figure there'd be no shortage of excellent insight here!
>>
>> Honestly, the best way to describe the requirements would be curl +
>> regex validation :)
>>
>> I want to hit a URL, probably a simple GET. Then validate that it's
>> 200. Then apply pattern matching to the response body. Fail if
>> anything isn't as expected.
>>
>> Performance isn't an issue, but the ability to run the tests in
>> parallel might be a nice to have.
>>
>> This is all command line based. I'm not running it through a browser
>> and there's no need to execute JavaScript anywhere for any reason.
>>
>> I've pretty much just talked myself into curl + grep, but any other
>> thoughts/suggestions?
>>
>> Garrett
>
>
> Python with urllib2 and re modules in a script should do the trick if you
> want serial tests or use them to create a script taking url(s) as arguments
> and run the script in batches in parallel.
>
> Handy reference; http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
> Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
> Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
> Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
> http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 18:50:16 2012
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:50:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdKVNhHwtJvD9EMKgd8qJWQZ+Jt5g5ZOWgiK50vBGOpROd_ZA@mail.gmail.com>

What you want is twill:  http://twill.idyll.org/
Here is an example, using it as you suggest:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577465-web-testing-using-twill/

My impression is that it is slowly fading from neglect (I may be wrong).

The main feature that it is missing is deliberate multi-threading.
There is nothing stopping you from breaking up your test suite and running
them in parallel with twill.
What I'd like is something that would co-ordinate the actions of multiple
browser sessions working in parallel.
Twill doesn't do that.

-Rob

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> I need to put together a simple test regime for a series of web apps.
> I figure there'd be no shortage of excellent insight here!
>
> Honestly, the best way to describe the requirements would be curl +
> regex validation :)
>
> I want to hit a URL, probably a simple GET. Then validate that it's
> 200. Then apply pattern matching to the response body. Fail if
> anything isn't as expected.
>
> Performance isn't an issue, but the ability to run the tests in
> parallel might be a nice to have.
>
> This is all command line based. I'm not running it through a browser
> and there's no need to execute JavaScript anywhere for any reason.
>
> I've pretty much just talked myself into curl + grep, but any other
> thoughts/suggestions?
>
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 18:53:11 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:53:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNhHwtJvD9EMKgd8qJWQZ+Jt5g5ZOWgiK50vBGOpROd_ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNhHwtJvD9EMKgd8qJWQZ+Jt5g5ZOWgiK50vBGOpROd_ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHuQaE0-1FQ0Oo9DQeDnM+jqNVAZXb2QsX2pMn4NEHLiVw@mail.gmail.com>

I'd probably go with a combination of the lovely requests library:
http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/

And the assertRegexpMatches in unittest2:
http://docs.python.org/2/library/unittest.html#unittest.TestCase.assertRegexpMatches

--matt


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> What you want is twill:  http://twill.idyll.org/
> Here is an example, using it as you suggest:
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577465-web-testing-using-twill/
>
> My impression is that it is slowly fading from neglect (I may be wrong).
>
> The main feature that it is missing is deliberate multi-threading.
> There is nothing stopping you from breaking up your test suite and running
> them in parallel with twill.
> What I'd like is something that would co-ordinate the actions of multiple
> browser sessions working in parallel.
> Twill doesn't do that.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>> I need to put together a simple test regime for a series of web apps.
>> I figure there'd be no shortage of excellent insight here!
>>
>> Honestly, the best way to describe the requirements would be curl +
>> regex validation :)
>>
>> I want to hit a URL, probably a simple GET. Then validate that it's
>> 200. Then apply pattern matching to the response body. Fail if
>> anything isn't as expected.
>>
>> Performance isn't an issue, but the ability to run the tests in
>> parallel might be a nice to have.
>>
>> This is all command line based. I'm not running it through a browser
>> and there's no need to execute JavaScript anywhere for any reason.
>>
>> I've pretty much just talked myself into curl + grep, but any other
>> thoughts/suggestions?
>>
>> Garrett
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Wed Nov  7 21:01:05 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:01:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Web test tools
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tjZ1D_=yTvk_G7nZ2nP2VwB_84yDZfX1fsZaRkumo9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509ABE01.2030404@threecrickets.com>

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From livne at uchicago.edu  Wed Nov  7 23:40:44 2012
From: livne at uchicago.edu (Oren Livne)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:40:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Import Shadowing
Message-ID: <509AE36C.6030306@uchicago.edu>

Dear All,

ipython loads all numpy functions into the main scope, so sum() 
references np.sum(). What if I want to call the python function sum()? I 
can't seem to qualify it so that the numpy import is ignored.

Thanks,
Oren

From mattkemp at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:50:45 2012
From: mattkemp at gmail.com (Matthew Kemp)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 17:50:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Import Shadowing
In-Reply-To: <509AE36C.6030306@uchicago.edu>
References: <509AE36C.6030306@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <CAED+=QV3=Yxge1CH6W4VCGZ2KMkqQtF8oq0XPRTPf3-pNz_i6w@mail.gmail.com>

I believe you can still reference it with __builtins__.sum.


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Oren Livne <livne at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> ipython loads all numpy functions into the main scope, so sum() references
> np.sum(). What if I want to call the python function sum()? I can't seem to
> qualify it so that the numpy import is ignored.
>
> Thanks,
> Oren
> ______________________________**_________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/chicago<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
>
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From alex.gaynor at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 00:51:37 2012
From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:51:37 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Import Shadowing
In-Reply-To: <CAED+=QV3=Yxge1CH6W4VCGZ2KMkqQtF8oq0XPRTPf3-pNz_i6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <509AE36C.6030306@uchicago.edu>
	<CAED+=QV3=Yxge1CH6W4VCGZ2KMkqQtF8oq0XPRTPf3-pNz_i6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRnB2V+cSAaB1FH0ZGJ9xsKMBL_CM_nNw=i0zH71dmP+8mBYA@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW this definitely isn't the default ipython behavior.

Alex


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Matthew Kemp <mattkemp at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe you can still reference it with __builtins__.sum.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Oren Livne <livne at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> ipython loads all numpy functions into the main scope, so sum()
>> references np.sum(). What if I want to call the python function sum()? I
>> can't seem to qualify it so that the numpy import is ignored.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Oren
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/chicago<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire)
"The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
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From livne at uchicago.edu  Thu Nov  8 03:30:55 2012
From: livne at uchicago.edu (Oren Livne)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 20:30:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Import Shadowing
In-Reply-To: <CAFRnB2V+cSAaB1FH0ZGJ9xsKMBL_CM_nNw=i0zH71dmP+8mBYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <509AE36C.6030306@uchicago.edu>
	<CAED+=QV3=Yxge1CH6W4VCGZ2KMkqQtF8oq0XPRTPf3-pNz_i6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFRnB2V+cSAaB1FH0ZGJ9xsKMBL_CM_nNw=i0zH71dmP+8mBYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509B195F.4060606@uchicago.edu>

Thank you, Alex and Matt. Both of you are correct (I am using ipython 
--pylab).
Oren

On 11/7/2012 5:51 PM, Alex Gaynor wrote:
> FWIW this definitely isn't the default ipython behavior.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Matthew Kemp <mattkemp at gmail.com 
> <mailto:mattkemp at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I believe you can still reference it with __builtins__.sum.
>
>
>     On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Oren Livne <livne at uchicago.edu
>     <mailto:livne at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
>
>         Dear All,
>
>         ipython loads all numpy functions into the main scope, so
>         sum() references np.sum(). What if I want to call the python
>         function sum()? I can't seem to qualify it so that the numpy
>         import is ignored.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Oren
>         _______________________________________________
>         Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your 
> right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire)
> "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


-- 
A person is just about as big as the things that make him angry.

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From agforsyth at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 05:16:21 2012
From: agforsyth at gmail.com (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:16:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] [ANN] ChiPy November Meeting at Braintree
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vncyX0aU-2gdBKt82JYEciq2=z4V=NGkqNDnngdtr-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38vncyX0aU-2gdBKt82JYEciq2=z4V=NGkqNDnngdtr-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N8i12y8+ojztSXYssZr5Zno=hN76AY9H_0GT6Rp+-KRWQ@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of final notes from Braintree:

Please do RSVP (with your first & last name on your account) if possible,
but if you decide to come last minute we can still get you in.

You'll need to enter the building from Canal Street -- after 6pm the
Randolph and Washington entrances are closed. Once you're through security,
take the elevator to the 4th floor and Braintree is right in front of the
elevators.

We'll have plenty of pizza, beer, and soft drinks.

See you tomorrow!


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Come join us *Tomorrow* for our best meeting ever!
>
> When: 7 PM Thursday November 8th, 2012
> Where: Braintree 111 North Canal Street #455, Chicago, IL 60606
> RSVP: http://chipy.org/meetings/rsvp/55/yes
>
> All are welcome to this loose format lightening talk meeting at Braintree.
> Thank you Braintree for hosting ChiPy and providing food and drink for our
> meeting https://www.braintreepayments.com/, a great service to simply
> payments who also publishes a Python API.
>
> Stack Overflow
> By: Adam Forsyth
> Answering Python questions on Stack Overflow.
>
> Ansible
> By: Matt Bone
> Ansible, A Configuration Management System for Mortals.
>
> Calendar App
> By: Matt Foster
> Chicago tech community calendar
>
> ... More potential lightening talks from Pete Fein, Daniel Peters, Brian
> Ray.... Please email brianhray (at) gmail.com if you have a lightening
> talk or just show up and talk! This is going to be fun.
>
> Best talk gets a B$G prize.
>
> This will indeed be the best meeting you have ever attended anywhere!
>
> RSVP at http://chipy.org/ and feel free to spread the word!
>
> About the group:
>
> ChiPy is made up of people of all levels of programming and Python
> knowledge. At every meeting we have had both beginning programmers,
> people who are just starting to use Python, as well as experienced
> Python programmers. Don't be intimidated about coming to a meeting.
>
> http://chipy.org
> http://python.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 15:04:25 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 08:04:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Fwd: Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best
 price & save up to $689
In-Reply-To: <1352448318.24660.0.850195@post.oreilly.com>
References: <1352448318.24660.0.850195@post.oreilly.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38u_5ZkLCDC+9Ts20pJec1wCsTeTnNqpomvpzHp1+GR4tw@mail.gmail.com>

Someone asked me last night about how many good solid jobs in "Big Data"
tools (NoSQL, Hadoop, Casandra, MongoDB, Disco, R...) Truth is, I am not
not sure how many jobs labeled as "Big Data" and involve Python are on the
market right now. I imagine there are plenty of jobs with different titles
that use "Big Data" tools; although, they are not in a class of their own.
For example, financial analyst, scientific, open gov data, GIS, and social
media analytics, are some places you may find Python with Big Data but no
jobs marketed as such.

One thing I do know is that when I attended Strata conference (see below)
in the past there were a lot of startups and better established companies
(twitter, linkedin) who use Python heavily in conjunction with big data.
 Python was mentioned in nearly every corner of the conference.

Also, here are almost random links that might be good references of
mentioning Python in the same breath as Big Data:

   -   Hadoop and Python
   http://www.michael-noll.com/tutorials/writing-an-hadoop-mapreduce-program-in-python/
   -   Disco map reduce in Python http://discoproject.org/ Anyone ever use
   this?
   -   Jeremiah Jordan (Morningstar) on Casandra and Python
   http://www.slideshare.net/jeremiahdjordan/pycon-2012-apache-cassandraHas
a lot of links in slides including a note not to use Thrift (comments
   Garrett?)
   - Found this from our friend @JoeGermuska
   http://www.cio.com.au/article/440163/python_big_data_secret_power_tool/and
references PyData Conference last month in NYC

So to make a long story shorter, if your looking to use Python with big
data on the job, it sounds like there is no shortage of this. However, I am
just not sure if the job title will be something like DBA or "Big Data".
 Although, I am sure that might also be the case but is probably the
exception. Instead, you probably want to look along the lines of Data
Scientist as a job title and pay special attention to mention of Python or
tools available written in Python in the job listing.

Cheers, Brian

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: O'Reilly Strata Conference <oreilly at post.oreilly.com>
Date: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:05 AM
Subject: Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best price & save up
to $689
To: brianhray at gmail.com


**

If you cannot read the information below, view in
browser<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zqrbha83cncm018ure55btbifbrluf8mkbul94lg>.

   [image: Strata
Conference]<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z3n3hb99iakn1qpcokt7703p0b6tg70adhpu4rh8>
 Register
by Nov. 30 at Guaranteed Best Price + Alumni
Discount<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z0cd60qedi9s26mq9ni5hds8l3srktnd0o1ssc6g>

Dear Brian,

Strata is returning to Santa Clara February 26-28, 2013, and we hope you'll
join us again.

You'll find everything you've come to expect from Strata: great speakers,
access to unparalleled expertise, and insight on the future of data.

At Strata 2013, you will:

   - *Discover **how some of the most successful companies (like Google and
   Microsoft) use big data*--and how to apply it to *your *organization.
   - *Get face-to-face with the leading big data experts*.


   - Explore proven best practices; new analytic approaches; and the *most
   useful tools, tips, and technologies to make big data work for you*.


   - *Dive into case studies *from innovative start-ups and established
   businesses that have implemented successful data-driven strategies.


   - *Learn how to use the data you already have*, and acquire data that
   will keep you ahead of the competition.

As a Strata alum, you get *an additional 20% off *on top of the* guaranteed
best price--saving you up to $689* if you* register by November 30*.

Strata has sold out every year, and we want to see you again. While we're
finalizing the full program, take a look at the
keynotes<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zfo325n2p9u24mgm4u60127gqe52cjgj41ff9iuo>and
tutorials<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1z6h0jqbp0qqi9kqpdmqsug9jh29t8dl8a1ogrru8>confirmed
so far, save the date, and register soon.
View Keynotes >>
<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zo2c9lgrqfpqo3g3l6hhe85vq7l1s9kndtmijf2g>

We look forward to seeing you at Strata 2013 in February.

*Edd Dumbill and Alistair Croll,*

*Strata Conference Chairs*

Save 20% with code *ALUMNI*

Best Price ends Nov. 30
*Reserve Your Seat*<http://post.oreilly.com/rd/9z1zcjchtsncirnekfblmr2kgsfqjpv0hqfjr3eelb8>

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"*One of the most valuable events to advance my career.*"

"*...the latest & greatest of the data community dropping knowledge and
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-- 
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@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Fri Nov  9 19:26:19 2012
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 12:26:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Donate to MediaGoblin, get a chance to go to PyCon!
In-Reply-To: <87a9uwxdny.fsf@grumps.lan>
References: <87a9uwxdny.fsf@grumps.lan>
Message-ID: <87k3tuvdis.fsf@grumps.lan>

Also, two things!

1) This is the LAST DAY to donate to MediaGoblin!
   http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html

2) There are still slots available for opportunities at free PyCon
   tickets!

Thanks all!  You won't hear me pestering about the campaign again.  If
you've been thinking about donating but have been putting it off, please
do so... every bit helps, no matter what amount!  Spreading the word
also helps a *lot*!

Thanks all!  Let's bring this home, decentralize media sharing, and save
the kittens!
 - cwebb

Christopher Allan Webber writes:

> Heya all!
>
> I've aready done a post here before about MediaGoblin's campaign:
>
>   http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
>
> ... but this morning I've got a huge announcement that's highly relevant to
> here!
>
>   http://mediagoblin.org/news/campaign-pycon-giveaway.html
>
> That's right!  Donate to MediaGoblin, get a chance at free tickets to
> PyCon!  (In addition to a lot of other sweet stuff already... not to
> mention supporting the future of python based, decentralized free and
> open source software media publishing!)
>
> There's never been a better time to donate as a pythonista!  We'd also
> appreciate with help spreading the word to other python folks about
> this!
>
> We're in our last week, and we've got a ways to go still.  We're not
> doing an all-or-nothing approach so if we don't make it 100% it's not
> the end of the world, but not making it as far as we can would really be
> a missed opportunity!
>
> Thanks all!
>  - Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From jonathan.hayward at pobox.com  Sat Nov 10 17:08:36 2012
From: jonathan.hayward at pobox.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:08:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Py3k Signal Handling
Message-ID: <CAE6_B5T09E04E1aH1kfWQFNTC-ZP+enJYmk=MuEiUnM=JVx6Pg@mail.gmail.com>

I am working on writing a shell, but I want to have stubbed signal handlers
when the user hits i.e. control-C or control-Z. My code is as follows; as I
have investigated it, I can get it to not stop on a control-Z, but still
suspend on a control-Z.

The most recent published version of the code is at
http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi<http://jonathanscorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi>.
The code I am working on is:

def handle_signal(signal_number, frame):
    print ('''

CJSH does not support the traditional and rather archaic methods of job
control. This arises partly from implementation concerns and partly for reasons
practical concerns.

In ye olden dayes with the green glow of terminals, it was important to have a
sophisticated job handling in place so jobs could be stopped, suspended, put in
the foreground, and so on and so forth, and for that matter this feature is
still used despite the fact that it was essentially a consolation prize for not
having multiple windows.

Don't try to suspend, resume, background, foreground, etc.
There is a more excellent way.
Now we have not the consolation prize but the real thing: unless you're on a
netbook or smaller, you can open another window for another job. If you have no
more use for a job, close the window.

Just open another window, or maybe a tab.

''')

signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handle_signl)
signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, handle_signal)
signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handle_signal)
signal.signal(signal.SIGQUIT, handle_signal)
signal.signal(signal.SIGABRT, handle_signal)
signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, handle_signal)
signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, handle_signal)
#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTSTP,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGHUP,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGINT,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGQUIT,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGABRT,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGALRM,
False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTERM, False)

What needs changing here and how should I change it so that handle_signal()
is called and then things keep on ticking?

As posted to
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13318447/how-can-i-add-signal-handlers-to-a-shell-written-in-py3k-pythonwith
only one response about the signal that is converted to a
KeyboardInterrupt exception.

-- 
[image: Christos Jonathan Hayward] <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
Jonathan Hayward, an Orthodox Christian author.

*Amazon <http://amazon.com/author/cjshayward>* ? Author
Bio<http://jonathanscorner.com/author/>
 ? *Email <christos.jonathan.hayward at gmail.com>* ?
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/christos.jonathan.hayward>
 ? Google Plus <http://jonathanscorner.com/plus> ?
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhayward>
 ? Twitter <http://twitter.com/JonathansCorner> ?
*Web<http://jonathanscorner.com/>
* ? What's New? <http://jonathanscorner.com/>
If you read just *one* of my books, you'll want *The Best of Jonathan's
Corner <http://www.amazon.com/dp/1478219912>*.
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From brian at python.org  Sat Nov 10 22:22:32 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:22:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Py3k Signal Handling
In-Reply-To: <CAE6_B5T09E04E1aH1kfWQFNTC-ZP+enJYmk=MuEiUnM=JVx6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6_B5T09E04E1aH1kfWQFNTC-ZP+enJYmk=MuEiUnM=JVx6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoW-4QkNBHPPW77k=kWNm2fbNXSOR9CUiMsMFL9fHOzWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Jonathan Hayward <
jonathan.hayward at pobox.com> wrote:

> I am working on writing a shell, but I want to have stubbed signal
> handlers when the user hits i.e. control-C or control-Z. My code is as
> follows; as I have investigated it, I can get it to not stop on a
> control-Z, but still suspend on a control-Z.
>
> The most recent published version of the code is at
> http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi<http://jonathanscorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi>.
> The code I am working on is:
>
> def handle_signal(signal_number, frame):
>     print ('''
>
> CJSH does not support the traditional and rather archaic methods of job
> control. This arises partly from implementation concerns and partly for reasons
> practical concerns.
>
> In ye olden dayes with the green glow of terminals, it was important to have a
> sophisticated job handling in place so jobs could be stopped, suspended, put in
> the foreground, and so on and so forth, and for that matter this feature is
> still used despite the fact that it was essentially a consolation prize for not
> having multiple windows.
>
> Don't try to suspend, resume, background, foreground, etc.
> There is a more excellent way.
> Now we have not the consolation prize but the real thing: unless you're on a
> netbook or smaller, you can open another window for another job. If you have no
> more use for a job, close the window.
>
> Just open another window, or maybe a tab.
>
> ''')
>
> signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handle_signl)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, handle_signal)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handle_signal)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGQUIT, handle_signal)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGABRT, handle_signal)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, handle_signal)
> signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, handle_signal)
> #signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTSTP, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGHUP, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGINT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGQUIT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGABRT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGALRM, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTERM, False)
>
> What needs changing here and how should I change it so that
> handle_signal() is called and then things keep on ticking?
>
I don't know if this is the answer, but this typo stood out: signl

signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handle_signl)
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From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Nov 11 14:47:50 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:47:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] upcoming python workshop for beginners
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZnigbrkKoR4QiFxJCRDiXqVfcio_BqyK6i68+OxqV4tw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

We are planning to have another beginner programmer workshop for women
and friends. I'll provide more details when we have them. The workshop
will be on Dec. 7 and 8. I'd really really like to get word out to
people who have no programming experience. If you have friends who
have no programming experience, have them be on the lookout for this
workshop.

We won't have as much room as the last one (25 slots vs. 45 slots) due
to space constraints, but we will definitely have more workshops in
the future.

-- 
sheila

From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 17:24:47 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:24:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNTbmQXw6nE7QfV0EKCPkz=vHmyo1n8m2HjjD-wUaJOYPQ@mail.gmail.com>

This sound like a problem we had at my last position.  We just found a
website that let us do meetings and went from there


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:

> What wroung have skype.I use the new one with no probs.But have not try
> voice yet.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>> Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
>> sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble.
>> http://mumble.sf.net.
>> >
>> > I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
>> > pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
>> > nice pairing sessions.
>> >
>> > I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
>> > whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
>> > getting in.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu  Sun Nov 11 17:40:01 2012
From: mdipierro at cs.depaul.edu (Massimo DiPierro)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:40:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RFC mdpcl
Message-ID: <4C0B54C8-35A9-446A-814C-1E1F922F7FE4@cs.depaul.edu>

Hello everybody,

I have been working on this: https://github.com/mdipierro/mdpcl
I could use some comments/critique.

Massimo
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From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 18:03:07 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:03:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Py3k Signal Handling
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoW-4QkNBHPPW77k=kWNm2fbNXSOR9CUiMsMFL9fHOzWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6_B5T09E04E1aH1kfWQFNTC-ZP+enJYmk=MuEiUnM=JVx6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoW-4QkNBHPPW77k=kWNm2fbNXSOR9CUiMsMFL9fHOzWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHvUqjAcQmh_p+TR+g1t06B2kQv6JiV9Mh5N5=wO=-PwAg@mail.gmail.com>

It's probably important to note that SIGSTOP can't be ignored:
http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man7/signal.7.html

You'd probably have to do some other magic to prevent ctrl-z from even
_sending_ that signal. I don't know how to do that off the top of my head,
but I'm confident its possible.

--matt


On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Jonathan Hayward <
> jonathan.hayward at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> I am working on writing a shell, but I want to have stubbed signal
>> handlers when the user hits i.e. control-C or control-Z. My code is as
>> follows; as I have investigated it, I can get it to not stop on a
>> control-Z, but still suspend on a control-Z.
>>
>> The most recent published version of the code is at
>> http://JonathansCorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi<http://jonathanscorner.com/cjsh/download.cgi>.
>> The code I am working on is:
>>
>> def handle_signal(signal_number, frame):
>>     print ('''
>>
>> CJSH does not support the traditional and rather archaic methods of job
>> control. This arises partly from implementation concerns and partly for reasons
>> practical concerns.
>>
>> In ye olden dayes with the green glow of terminals, it was important to have a
>> sophisticated job handling in place so jobs could be stopped, suspended, put in
>> the foreground, and so on and so forth, and for that matter this feature is
>> still used despite the fact that it was essentially a consolation prize for not
>> having multiple windows.
>>
>> Don't try to suspend, resume, background, foreground, etc.
>> There is a more excellent way.
>> Now we have not the consolation prize but the real thing: unless you're on a
>> netbook or smaller, you can open another window for another job. If you have no
>> more use for a job, close the window.
>>
>> Just open another window, or maybe a tab.
>>
>> ''')
>>
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handle_signl)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, handle_signal)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, handle_signal)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGQUIT, handle_signal)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGABRT, handle_signal)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, handle_signal)
>> signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, handle_signal)
>> #signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTSTP, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGHUP, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGINT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGQUIT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGABRT, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGALRM, False)#signal.siginterrupt(signal.SIGTERM, False)
>>
>> What needs changing here and how should I change it so that
>> handle_signal() is called and then things keep on ticking?
>>
> I don't know if this is the answer, but this typo stood out: signl
>
> signal.signal(signal.SIGTSTP, handle_signl)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From g at rre.tt  Tue Nov 13 17:59:11 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:59:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
Message-ID: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>

As penance for missing the last several Chipys, I've extended "solving
embarrassing obvious problems" to Python:

http://www.gar1t.com/blog/2012/11/11/more-embarrassingly-obvious-problems/

Will be interested to hear feedback from this group :)

Garrett

From tottinge at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 18:41:57 2012
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:41:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACoHCNTbmQXw6nE7QfV0EKCPkz=vHmyo1n8m2HjjD-wUaJOYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNTbmQXw6nE7QfV0EKCPkz=vHmyo1n8m2HjjD-wUaJOYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2NStmXHHFO4Tju6k9_9FG5GTv2FdP+z8Q2FHiq3mkv0FN4uA@mail.gmail.com>

We generally use join.me for remote stuff. For docs, we often use goog. We
started doing hangouts when we can.
On Nov 11, 2012 10:25 AM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:

> This sound like a problem we had at my last position.  We just found a
> website that let us do meetings and went from there
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What wroung have skype.I use the new one with no probs.But have not try
>> voice yet.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>>> Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
>>> sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble.
>>> http://mumble.sf.net.
>>> >
>>> > I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
>>> > pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
>>> > nice pairing sessions.
>>> >
>>> > I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
>>> > whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
>>> > getting in.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From syntax47 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 19:07:36 2012
From: syntax47 at gmail.com (Syntax Syntax)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:07:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CAN2NStmXHHFO4Tju6k9_9FG5GTv2FdP+z8Q2FHiq3mkv0FN4uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNTbmQXw6nE7QfV0EKCPkz=vHmyo1n8m2HjjD-wUaJOYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN2NStmXHHFO4Tju6k9_9FG5GTv2FdP+z8Q2FHiq3mkv0FN4uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACMAjJ7irbyj9hToN3XPP9xSQg1=Fvh6a6UGYvCLSzpMo82LAw@mail.gmail.com>

Sound good to me.Does it work with linux?

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:

> We generally use join.me for remote stuff. For docs, we often use goog.
> We started doing hangouts when we can.
> On Nov 11, 2012 10:25 AM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This sound like a problem we had at my last position.  We just found a
>> website that let us do meetings and went from there
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What wroung have skype.I use the new one with no probs.But have not try
>>> voice yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
>>>> sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble.
>>>> http://mumble.sf.net.
>>>> >
>>>> > I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
>>>> > pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
>>>> > nice pairing sessions.
>>>> >
>>>> > I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
>>>> > whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
>>>> > getting in.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tottinge at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 20:31:32 2012
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:31:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] skype ranting
In-Reply-To: <CACMAjJ7irbyj9hToN3XPP9xSQg1=Fvh6a6UGYvCLSzpMo82LAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSSj1y-Fs3jUt9L2BeqLLXsUtZfepHPt8TZsr45uUBj3S6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6u-GDtTvgUTsrCh=3jA9CszyHmca4k4-8amYiTKgzfNyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPLqtWJeExcKDYg-00WYzV0QqwZ-kut8LKztwUL=_aaEwzjGLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpz=2_g0aejdTA=TBCLWJSFe_SZo=Op=M_GpByyYnOE6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sGXA8oU=GOnQTnqGT5Y=Whw=uxOrC9PsCx3GywDbEhsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ5c40zpm+uVy2_OcThEwq+xn0wZW5qtiZ32aNaTx3_mPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNTbmQXw6nE7QfV0EKCPkz=vHmyo1n8m2HjjD-wUaJOYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN2NStmXHHFO4Tju6k9_9FG5GTv2FdP+z8Q2FHiq3mkv0FN4uA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACMAjJ7irbyj9hToN3XPP9xSQg1=Fvh6a6UGYvCLSzpMo82LAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2NStmymCrjBGsgke+GTE_LsuAtxMXt_-K1q=7J2a=0a1BtbA@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah. it's all through browser.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sound good to me.Does it work with linux?
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tim Ottinger <tottinge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We generally use join.me for remote stuff. For docs, we often use goog.
>> We started doing hangouts when we can.
>> On Nov 11, 2012 10:25 AM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This sound like a problem we had at my last position.  We just found a
>>> website that let us do meetings and went from there
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Syntax Syntax <syntax47 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> What wroung have skype.I use the new one with no probs.But have not try
>>>> voice yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Heh, yes -- I use tmux, but this I've found to be the best screen
>>>>> sharing technique by far. Slide shows can then just be ASCII art, FFS.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Augie Fackler <lists at durin42.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> For voice-only, I've been *very* happy with Mumble.
>>>>> http://mumble.sf.net.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I've been using Mumble for our weekly calls since January and it's
>>>>> > pretty solid. When combined with screen over ssh it made for a few
>>>>> > nice pairing sessions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I liked Hangout the few times we tried it instead of Mumble, but for
>>>>> > whatever reason some people would drop the connection or have trouble
>>>>> > getting in.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Tim Ottinger, Sr. Consultant, Industrial Logic
-------------------------------------
http://www.industriallogic.com/
http://agileinaflash.com/
http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 20:36:28 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:36:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
Message-ID: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>

Several positions have opened up and I will be sending over a batch to
those of you who are looking for something simular. I will give my personal
recommendations to those of you who have contributed to the group. If you
wish to be included in the next batch, please let me know ASAP.

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 21:15:16 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:15:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A2AA54.8060106@threecrickets.com>

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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Tue Nov 13 21:38:34 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:38:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Question raised by Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352839114.15888.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


I enjoyed the article though my memories of SQL are old as dirt and involved screens where you plugged in a bunch of stuff to QUERY DB2 and DBII databases. ?Maybe I remember even less than I think I do.
Studying for the U of Toronto final now and this is sort of me procrastinating but at some point I will have to begin to look at what libs are used and that I should become familiar with?
Once I take this final I plan to jump back over on the Rice course. ?The interface they are using though has me intrigued and I am wondering if it is expandable or if there are others like it for easily building web pages and publishing them?
Next question is at what point in all of this studying might I become useful to?actually?putting together my own app or helping others?
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Tue Nov 13 21:48:05 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:48:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2AA54.8060106@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

LISP like APL was born in a time of doing things with four byte words and many learned machine languages or assembly before a higher level language which builds a sort of language all of it's own and English words get shortened to three or four letter replacements. ?Major dmag to spln as well. ?Great for slow fingers though.

--- On Tue, 11/13/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
3) This cuts a bite close to home: part of what I hate, hate, hate
    about the Lisp world (which I otherwise love) is its fetishization
    of succinctness. Functions have the weirdest, shortest names that
    tell you basically nothing about what they do. You just, like, gotta
    be in the know, you know? People in that world love to have
    philosophical discussions about how succinctness == clarity, but
    some of us like to get work done in the real world, don't we.#yiv1957442350 body p {margin-bottom:0cm;margin-top:0pt;}
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 21:52:52 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:52:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>

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From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 21:56:08 2012
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:56:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAFW6YxMqyFN8V77wNbJ9p8db5aeAQ-h-cLAGONrvHepfWWejZA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_AllSym.htm

Most of the symbols seem self explanatory to me...?


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  Heh, also great for neurotics, when you need to punch in 20
> close-parentheses signs in succession... )))))))))))))))))))))
>
>
> On 11/13/2012 02:48 PM, Randall Baxley wrote:
>
>   LISP like APL was born in a time of doing things with four byte words
> and many learned machine languages or assembly before a higher level
> language which builds a sort of language all of it's own and English words
> get shortened to three or four letter replacements.  Major dmag to spln as
> well.  Great for slow fingers though.
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/13/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com><tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
> * wrote:
>
> 3) This cuts a bite close to home: part of what I hate, hate, hate about
> the Lisp world (which I otherwise love) is its fetishization of
> succinctness. Functions have the weirdest, shortest names that tell you
> basically nothing about what they do. You just, like, gotta be in the know,
> you know? People in that world love to have philosophical discussions about
> how succinctness == clarity, but some of us like to get work done in the
> real world, don't we.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Nov 13 21:59:36 2012
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:59:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Question raised by Factoring fun with functions in
	Python
In-Reply-To: <1352839114.15888.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352839114.15888.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSg-rKTx1YMF2PyGZCuZy0XnOyDVVpKnbFKO7hiX1N6gAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

> Next question is at what point in all of this studying might I become
> useful to actually putting together my own app


That all depends on ... well... everything.

I would not suggest writing an app that drives your car for you right
away.   Writing an app to help you find words that mach some pattern is
probably OK.


> or helping others?


As soon as you feel you have learned something, you can help someone else,
and even just paring up with someone to help each other can be very
rewarding.

-- 
Carl K
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Tue Nov 13 22:19:07 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:19:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSg-rKTx1YMF2PyGZCuZy0XnOyDVVpKnbFKO7hiX1N6gAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?
Recommendations for editors to use with 3.2 in a windows environment? ?IDLE has been fun but is getting boring.
Randy
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From zitterbewegung at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 22:39:47 2012
From: zitterbewegung at gmail.com (Joshua Herman)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:39:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CADmzSSg-rKTx1YMF2PyGZCuZy0XnOyDVVpKnbFKO7hiX1N6gAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3V1znZqg6rCBD32xMLUGgEVHjH3aKROyV3=r-D8DwXiQG=BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Emacs will work for windows.

---Profile:---
http://www.google.com/profiles/zitterbewegung




On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

>
> Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?
>
> Recommendations for editors to use with 3.2 in a windows environment?
>  IDLE has been fun but is getting boring.
>
> Randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:10:25 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:10:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>

I like it.

At one point, many moons ago I was a youngling and didn't think that readability was paramount.
Then I inherited a giant jumbled PHP app. We now use Python.

On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> As penance for missing the last several Chipys, I've extended "solving
> embarrassing obvious problems" to Python:
> 
> http://www.gar1t.com/blog/2012/11/11/more-embarrassingly-obvious-problems/
> 
> Will be interested to hear feedback from this group :)
> 
> Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:18:22 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:18:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>

This is why they invented auto-pair.

Also, I recommend rainbow delimiters in Emacs.

On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:

> Heh, also great for neurotics, when you need to punch in 20 close-parentheses signs in succession... )))))))))))))))))))))
> 
> On 11/13/2012 02:48 PM, Randall Baxley wrote:
>> 
>> LISP like APL was born in a time of doing things with four byte words and many learned machine languages or assembly before a higher level language which builds a sort of language all of it's own and English words get shortened to three or four letter replacements.  Major dmag to spln as well.  Great for slow fingers though.
>> 
>> --- On Tue, 11/13/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
>> 3) This cuts a bite close to home: part of what I hate, hate, hate about the Lisp world (which I otherwise love) is its fetishization of succinctness. Functions have the weirdest, shortest names that tell you basically nothing about what they do. You just, like, gotta be in the know, you know? People in that world love to have philosophical discussions about how succinctness == clarity, but some of us like to get work done in the real world, don't we.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Nov 13 23:22:12 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:22:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CADmzSSg-rKTx1YMF2PyGZCuZy0XnOyDVVpKnbFKO7hiX1N6gAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZpg1BbVaNtF3mWQh9247BsYA1Vhe27o+uZdhx0oeBdPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?

This question is very vague, and I'm not certain anyone will agree on
what is meant. Maybe you could be a little more specific or explain
what you are trying to learn?



--
sheila

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 23:23:09 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:23:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>

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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:24:38 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:24:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>

There were pre-emacs days? What did you use for an OS?

On Nov 13, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:

> In the old pre-emacs days we had to cut parentheses in punch cards by hand using an X-Acto knife, you insensitive clod!
> 
> On 11/13/2012 04:18 PM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
>> This is why they invented auto-pair.
>> 
>> Also, I recommend rainbow delimiters in Emacs.
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 23:29:00 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:29:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>

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From johnlambrechts at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:30:20 2012
From: johnlambrechts at gmail.com (John Lambrechts)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:30:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
	<50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>

Why didn't you guys just buy or rent a bobcat for the nightshift? Forget
shovels....


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  Operating systems? Fancy! We had a lab of 30 people working night shifts
> shoveling 1's and 0's into the Mainframe furnace. I would yell at you to
> get off my lawn, but lawns weren't invented yet.
>
>
> On 11/13/2012 04:24 PM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
>
> There were pre-emacs days? What did you use for an OS?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
John Lambrechts
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From ilunderskov at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:30:59 2012
From: ilunderskov at gmail.com (Ian Lunderskov)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:30:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
	<50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
	<CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>

back in my day, we didn't even have ONES.

we didn't get much done.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:30 PM, John Lambrechts
<johnlambrechts at gmail.com>wrote:

> Why didn't you guys just buy or rent a bobcat for the nightshift? Forget
> shovels....
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>  Operating systems? Fancy! We had a lab of 30 people working night shifts
>> shoveling 1's and 0's into the Mainframe furnace. I would yell at you to
>> get off my lawn, but lawns weren't invented yet.
>>
>>
>> On 11/13/2012 04:24 PM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
>>
>> There were pre-emacs days? What did you use for an OS?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Lambrechts
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 23:33:21 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:33:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
	<50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
	<CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A2CAB1.5020502@threecrickets.com>

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From zitterbewegung at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 23:35:01 2012
From: zitterbewegung at gmail.com (Joshua Herman)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:35:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A2CAB1.5020502@threecrickets.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
	<50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
	<CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A2CAB1.5020502@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3V1zkS4sVg3cCY4u6P532p0EyjBGQm_+KTLa3=sQ1eN_fQUA@mail.gmail.com>

Quantum computers are only more efficient for certain tasks not all tasks
in general so digital computers are here to stay.

---Profile:---
http://www.google.com/profiles/zitterbewegung




On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  Seriously, a century from now, quantum programmers will make fun of our
> primitive digital 1/0 bits. Qubits are already a reality.
>
>
> On 11/13/2012 04:30 PM, Ian Lunderskov wrote:
>
> back in my day, we didn't even have ONES.
>
>  we didn't get much done.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 13 23:37:16 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:37:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAB3V1zkS4sVg3cCY4u6P532p0EyjBGQm_+KTLa3=sQ1eN_fQUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
	<50A2C9AC.7090500@threecrickets.com>
	<CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<50A2CAB1.5020502@threecrickets.com>
	<CAB3V1zkS4sVg3cCY4u6P532p0EyjBGQm_+KTLa3=sQ1eN_fQUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A2CB9C.2040500@threecrickets.com>

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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 00:26:52 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:26:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] From a fan...
Message-ID: <8DAEF165-BD57-465D-8F10-00F5BE246881@gmail.com>

Reposting anonymously with permission:


I have a few questions regarding python employment and noticed you had a few posts on the subject.
I'm very new to the group, and relatively new to python (roughly a year or so). I have never worked as a developer in any capacity before. I would like to transition at some point to a development position of some sort. I don't have any clue where to start though. I'm under the impression that due to lack of experience, I would need to intern or something similar first. Can you offer any advice on how to proceed? Or perhaps what I should be focusing on to build my resume?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

From tottinge at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 00:31:47 2012
From: tottinge at gmail.com (Tim Ottinger)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:31:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] From a fan...
In-Reply-To: <8DAEF165-BD57-465D-8F10-00F5BE246881@gmail.com>
References: <8DAEF165-BD57-465D-8F10-00F5BE246881@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2NStkEOvHMwywi+bqRd_RT-fEEWQSuKiWtM72VAiKsJ5Pwrg@mail.gmail.com>

Join a software craftsmen group nearby or a python users group.

You'll develop skills, contacts, and friendships that will do you well.

Build stuff for fun.
Read articles/books/commit records on github.
Build more stuff for more fun.




On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Reposting anonymously with permission:
>
>
> I have a few questions regarding python employment and noticed you had a
> few posts on the subject.
> I'm very new to the group, and relatively new to python (roughly a year or
> so). I have never worked as a developer in any capacity before. I would
> like to transition at some point to a development position of some sort. I
> don't have any clue where to start though. I'm under the impression that
> due to lack of experience, I would need to intern or something similar
> first. Can you offer any advice on how to proceed? Or perhaps what I should
> be focusing on to build my resume?
> Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Tim Ottinger, Sr. Consultant, Industrial Logic
-------------------------------------
http://www.industriallogic.com/
http://agileinaflash.com/
http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
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From brian at python.org  Wed Nov 14 00:34:27 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:34:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CADmzSSg-rKTx1YMF2PyGZCuZy0XnOyDVVpKnbFKO7hiX1N6gAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352841547.16164.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwqgJrHbhC=SbGJEZDYomHsUubEy6kfOpRVa6biPOzFN8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

>
> Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?
>
> Recommendations for editors to use with 3.2 in a windows environment?
>  IDLE has been fun but is getting boring.
>

I don't get the first question, but for the second I'd just say "it
depends". What do you want to do? What do you want to do that IDLE doesn't
allow you to do?

I've been a vim user for a long time and it edits all files quite fine. I'm
also a Visual Studio user so I'm a fan of using Python Tools For Visual
Studio (plus ViEmu).
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 14 00:32:41 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:32:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZpg1BbVaNtF3mWQh9247BsYA1Vhe27o+uZdhx0oeBdPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352849561.85628.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



> Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?

http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/agile-101
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 14 00:35:05 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:35:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CABNXvk8dRYtxd8aHZ-g9=tyB6LswwofNMMwcXchJdnbENDUiLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352849705.85868.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

That would put too many people out of work and ruin the economy.

--- On Tue, 11/13/12, John Lambrechts <johnlambrechts at gmail.com> wrote:

Why didn't you guys just buy or rent a bobcat for the nightshift? Forget shovels....
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 14 00:36:51 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAFTctja27L+ffmgN3QrN-5gDX-49MNWdZH2O4=qDMVYj925yBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352849811.63594.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Low voltage just use -0.001 and an inverter.

--- On Tue, 11/13/12, Ian Lunderskov <ilunderskov at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ian Lunderskov <ilunderskov at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 4:30 PM

back in my day, we didn't even have ONES.?
we didn't get much done.

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:30 PM, John Lambrechts <johnlambrechts at gmail.com> wrote:

Why didn't you guys just buy or rent a bobcat for the nightshift? Forget shovels....


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:



  
    
    
  
  
    Operating systems? Fancy! We had a lab of 30 people working night
    shifts shoveling 1's and 0's into the Mainframe furnace. I would
    yell at you to get off my lawn, but lawns weren't invented yet.

    

    On 11/13/2012 04:24 PM, Cezar Jenkins
      wrote:

    
    
      
      There were pre-emacs days? What did you
      use for an OS?

    
    

  


_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago





-- 
John Lambrechts




_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago





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Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 00:37:34 2012
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:37:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<2E6E7143-0C4F-4CB6-9D9C-EB438BDF3291@gmail.com>
	<50A2C84D.2070802@threecrickets.com>
	<6229976C-F542-46F2-85D8-D5A94911B245@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uws82p-jZ+o+7hjDfoQP1aFYwkcP9ot1m20q=19AnMUmg@mail.gmail.com>

> There were pre-emacs days? What did you use for an OS?

Teco. Emacs is just a bunch of teco macros.  ;-)

Skip
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From brian at python.org  Wed Nov 14 00:44:03 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:44:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <1352849561.85628.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAHCs_rZpg1BbVaNtF3mWQh9247BsYA1Vhe27o+uZdhx0oeBdPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352849561.85628.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwrw4UvfCYKWq9X7Q7b0DsbdyugRhFFKNQ4z_OV4UfYDAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

>
>
> > Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?
>
> http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/agile-101
>
>
> All of them.
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From orblivion at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 05:35:17 2012
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:35:17 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>

One thing I struggle with on this count is that spitting it up to this
degree makes it confusing all over again, because there's so many
functions, so many lines of logic to follow. There's no indicating what the
"main idea" is, you just have to read it all to find out what isn't being
called by everything else.

The only solutions I've come up with are A) making functions small but not
that small, and B) defining functions inside other functions, so that it's
clear what functions are there purely for the benefit of other functions.

Any ideas on that front? Isn't there such a thing as splitting functions up
*too* much?
On Nov 13, 2012 2:10 PM, "Cezar Jenkins" <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:

> I like it.
>
> At one point, many moons ago I was a youngling and didn't think that
> readability was paramount.
> Then I inherited a giant jumbled PHP app. We now use Python.
>
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
> > As penance for missing the last several Chipys, I've extended "solving
> > embarrassing obvious problems" to Python:
> >
> >
> http://www.gar1t.com/blog/2012/11/11/more-embarrassingly-obvious-problems/
> >
> > Will be interested to hear feedback from this group :)
> >
> > Garrett
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Wed Nov 14 05:49:52 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 22:49:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A322F0.6030604@threecrickets.com>

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From damonwang at uchicago.edu  Wed Nov 14 06:19:40 2012
From: damonwang at uchicago.edu (Damon Wang)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:19:40 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAFW6YxMqyFN8V77wNbJ9p8db5aeAQ-h-cLAGONrvHepfWWejZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<CAFW6YxMqyFN8V77wNbJ9p8db5aeAQ-h-cLAGONrvHepfWWejZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMchPjMBo4u1KoQrx6NG7McRKmGDiuXn2NK2mxAZC9B8JXPXXw@mail.gmail.com>

2012/11/13 Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>

> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_AllSym.htm
>
> Most of the symbols seem self explanatory to me...?
>
>
*car*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#car>
*case*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm#case>
*catch*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_catch.htm#catch>
*ccase*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm#ccase>
*cdaaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaaar>
*cdaadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaadr>
*cdaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaar>
*cdadar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdadar>
*cdaddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaddr>
*cdadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdadr>
*cdar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdar>
*cddaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddaar>
*cddadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddadr>
*cddar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddar>
*cdddar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdddar>
*cddddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddddr>
*cdddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdddr>
*cddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddr>
*cdr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdr>
I never realized these were all defined.  After I discovered they went all
the way up to four levels deep, I assumed it was implemented using some
horrible hack, like a reader macro that transformed /c[ad]*r/ into the
appropriate series of car/cdr calls at read-time.

Wang

>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>
>>  Heh, also great for neurotics, when you need to punch in 20
>> close-parentheses signs in succession... )))))))))))))))))))))
>>
>>
>> On 11/13/2012 02:48 PM, Randall Baxley wrote:
>>
>>   LISP like APL was born in a time of doing things with four byte words
>> and many learned machine languages or assembly before a higher level
>> language which builds a sort of language all of it's own and English words
>> get shortened to three or four letter replacements.  Major dmag to spln as
>> well.  Great for slow fingers though.
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 11/13/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com><tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
>> * wrote:
>>
>> 3) This cuts a bite close to home: part of what I hate, hate, hate about
>> the Lisp world (which I otherwise love) is its fetishization of
>> succinctness. Functions have the weirdest, shortest names that tell you
>> basically nothing about what they do. You just, like, gotta be in the know,
>> you know? People in that world love to have philosophical discussions about
>> how succinctness == clarity, but some of us like to get work done in the
>> real world, don't we.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From herbieman2000 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 07:06:10 2012
From: herbieman2000 at gmail.com (Frank Duncan)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:06:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] LISP was Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAMchPjMBo4u1KoQrx6NG7McRKmGDiuXn2NK2mxAZC9B8JXPXXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352839685.22822.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50A2B324.8090901@threecrickets.com>
	<CAFW6YxMqyFN8V77wNbJ9p8db5aeAQ-h-cLAGONrvHepfWWejZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMchPjMBo4u1KoQrx6NG7McRKmGDiuXn2NK2mxAZC9B8JXPXXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFW6YxMS=iuKGynTpT90XDA-k2zpK3aab30vYOYXZ=_jc414yg@mail.gmail.com>

Ha, yeah, no one really uses those.  first, second, third, rest, nth, etc.
are more common, especially when dealing with lists.

But even so, I prefer it to keywords like "final" in java where you have
eight different meanings based on context.


On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Damon Wang <damonwang at uchicago.edu> wrote:

>
>
> 2012/11/13 Frank Duncan <herbieman2000 at gmail.com>
>
>> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_AllSym.htm
>>
>> Most of the symbols seem self explanatory to me...?
>>
>>
> *car*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#car>
> *case*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm#case>
> *catch*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_catch.htm#catch>
> *ccase*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm#ccase>
> *cdaaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaaar>
> *cdaadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaadr>
> *cdaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaar>
> *cdadar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdadar>
> *cdaddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdaddr>
> *cdadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdadr>
> *cdar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdar>
> *cddaar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddaar>
> *cddadr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddadr>
> *cddar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddar>
> *cdddar*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdddar>
> *cddddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddddr>
> *cdddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdddr>
> *cddr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cddr>
> *cdr*<http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm#cdr>
> I never realized these were all defined.  After I discovered they went all
> the way up to four levels deep, I assumed it was implemented using some
> horrible hack, like a reader macro that transformed /c[ad]*r/ into the
> appropriate series of car/cdr calls at read-time.
>
> Wang
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Heh, also great for neurotics, when you need to punch in 20
>>> close-parentheses signs in succession... )))))))))))))))))))))
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/13/2012 02:48 PM, Randall Baxley wrote:
>>>
>>>   LISP like APL was born in a time of doing things with four byte words
>>> and many learned machine languages or assembly before a higher level
>>> language which builds a sort of language all of it's own and English words
>>> get shortened to three or four letter replacements.  Major dmag to spln as
>>> well.  Great for slow fingers though.
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 11/13/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com><tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
>>> * wrote:
>>>
>>> 3) This cuts a bite close to home: part of what I hate, hate, hate about
>>> the Lisp world (which I otherwise love) is its fetishization of
>>> succinctness. Functions have the weirdest, shortest names that tell you
>>> basically nothing about what they do. You just, like, gotta be in the know,
>>> you know? People in that world love to have philosophical discussions about
>>> how succinctness == clarity, but some of us like to get work done in the
>>> real world, don't we.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 14 09:39:42 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:39:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwqgJrHbhC=SbGJEZDYomHsUubEy6kfOpRVa6biPOzFN8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352882382.21706.YahooMailClassic@web185003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

My double apologies. ?First I failed to answer back and then I answered to Brian alone instead of the group. ?What I would like IDLE to do is cut and paste between the shell and other windows using a mouse right click drop down. ?I am sure there will be other things as I go along but for now that is the main bothersome thing is having the windows in IDLE not acting like the rest of my windows.
Randy
--- On Tue, 11/13/12, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
What do you want to do that IDLE doesn't allow you to do?
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From shekay at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 14:36:56 2012
From: shekay at gmail.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 07:36:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwrw4UvfCYKWq9X7Q7b0DsbdyugRhFFKNQ4z_OV4UfYDAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHCs_rZpg1BbVaNtF3mWQh9247BsYA1Vhe27o+uZdhx0oeBdPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352849561.85628.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+XWwrw4UvfCYKWq9X7Q7b0DsbdyugRhFFKNQ4z_OV4UfYDAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.

Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of
success). Do you have followup questions?
On Nov 13, 2012 6:44 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?
>>
>> http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/agile-101
>>
>>
>> All of them.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Wed Nov 14 14:59:19 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 07:59:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>
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	<1352849561.85628.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
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	<CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:36 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.
>
> Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of
> success). Do you have followup questions?
>
I think the better question is "who in 2012 isn't agile?" but you need to
define what agile you are looking for.

On one hand you have the work in smaller increments, release early/often,
heavy automation, etc, generic version of agile. It follows being
physically agile - quick and flexible. You can just do this, it's a good
set of ideas. Most places are like this.

You also have the Agile that you pay for - the big-A Agile. You can buy
books and pay people to effectively read books to you and your company and
be branded as Agile or some variant. There are plenty of these places as
well.
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 14 15:12:18 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 06:12:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352902338.88205.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

A few years back I attended a PM meeting at AT & T in Hoffman Estates and then another at Thoughtworks am impressed. ?Was just wondering if these processes were used in Python shops.
Randy

--- On Wed, 11/14/12, sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com> wrote:

From: sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 7:36 AM

Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.
Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of success). Do you have followup questions?
On Nov 13, 2012 6:44 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:






> Any Python shops working in an Agile fashion?

http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/agile-101


All of them.

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




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From g at rre.tt  Wed Nov 14 16:09:45 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:09:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>

The thinking here is that, if done right, you can look at any single
function and know exactly what it does. You don't need to look
anywhere else, unless you're curious about another function.

If you look around the room, you'll see thousands of things. But you
never get overwhelming (hopefully) because our brains are very good at
filtering out what isn't important, until it becomes important. Then
we focus on that.

The number of functions shouldn't matter. The obviousness of each
function should matter. The more lines of code a function has, the
less obvious it is.

More importantly, lines of code contain logic that can be more clearly
expressed as a function. By asking, "what's going on here" when you
look at a block of code, you'll discover that you've made decisions
without thinking carefully. A function forces you to map that informal
thought into something precise:

- A name
- A set of inputs
- A set of outputs or side effects

If you drive these mystery blocks (these can be as innocuous as an if
statement or a for loop) into functions, I think you'll find that your
code improves dramatically. First, you're thinking harder about the
problem and solution and second, you're leaving behind artifacts that
are obviously correct, at least according to your intent.

I'm not sure I buy that it's a good idea to group functions together
to better understand "the big picture". The big picture of course is
entirely relative, but if you're interested in a higher level
function, you can look at that function. In the tutorial/example that
big picture is this:

def print_db_table_row_counts(db_name):
    cur = db_cursor(connect_db(db_name)
    print_row_counts(row_counts(all_tables(cur), cur)

This may be all I ever need to know. But if I need to know about a
"smaller" component (it's a matter of perspective) then I can look
there, and see that picture clearly. E.g.

def print_row_counts(counts):
    for table, count in counts:
        print "%s %i" % (table, count)

It is tempting to look at all those functions and think, "whoa, that
looks really confusing" but I've found in practice that it's not
confusing at all -- I just choose where to look and where I look is
usually clear and straight forward.

As an aside, we often group functions together as a result of side
effects [1]. We need to group them tightly because they modify a
common set of resources, typically state/memory. Objects e.g. are used
to "hide" state and provide controlled access to it via related
functions. Traditional OO language features allegedly make all this
better for us.

In functional language circles, side effects are something to avoid
wherever possible. Functions are semantically math formulae that don't
modify the external world. In this form, functions are a wonderful
thing because they tell *exactly* what's going on -- no side effects.
When you get side effects, you need to ask, "what's going on *here*,
and also what is going on *who knows where*?"

While it's hard to avoid side effects entirely (e.g. printing to
stdout is a side effect), we can certainly be aware of them and try to
make our functions side effect free as much as possible. If we're
purists, we can use a language like Haskell that handles this problem
explicitly [2].

I would suggest that you at least keep this method in mind when you're
programming. If you have a block of code that's more than a couple
lines -- just for fun -- try to identify "what's going on there" and
put it into a function. As it's an experiment, you don't need to worry
too much about things getting complicated. You might be surprised that
it's actually not so bad, or you might confirm your suspicion. Either
way, it'll be fun :)

[1]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_effect_(computer_science)

[2] http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monad

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> One thing I struggle with on this count is that spitting it up to this
> degree makes it confusing all over again, because there's so many functions,
> so many lines of logic to follow. There's no indicating what the "main idea"
> is, you just have to read it all to find out what isn't being called by
> everything else.
>
> The only solutions I've come up with are A) making functions small but not
> that small, and B) defining functions inside other functions, so that it's
> clear what functions are there purely for the benefit of other functions.
>
> Any ideas on that front? Isn't there such a thing as splitting functions up
> *too* much?
>
> On Nov 13, 2012 2:10 PM, "Cezar Jenkins" <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I like it.
>>
>> At one point, many moons ago I was a youngling and didn't think that
>> readability was paramount.
>> Then I inherited a giant jumbled PHP app. We now use Python.
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>> > As penance for missing the last several Chipys, I've extended "solving
>> > embarrassing obvious problems" to Python:
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.gar1t.com/blog/2012/11/11/more-embarrassingly-obvious-problems/
>> >
>> > Will be interested to hear feedback from this group :)
>> >
>> > Garrett
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Nov 14 16:33:00 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:33:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <1352902338.88205.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>
	<1352902338.88205.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rYUFR6OX3oniCorsP7_fxREZJmAZ2i4uHFRi83huyiUHQ@mail.gmail.com>

The reality is that you'd probably find it difficult to get a shop to
say that it isn't following agile processes.

So, when I have this kind of question, it's usually in the context of
trying to figure out what a place is *really* like. For example, I
worked at some place that had a morning "stand-up" that was really a
never ending status meeting.

You can't just come out and ask a recruiter whether people at their
company are coding cowboys who break the build all the time like
maniacs or are "heros" who think they are awesome for fixing something
at 2 am in a coffee haze in only! 151!1 minutes rather than doing
things in sensible way to begin with, the jersk.

So, I dunno, I might ask why they are hiring (high turnover? bad
sign). What kinds of ci tools they use (clueless answers would be a
bad sign).

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:
>
> A few years back I attended a PM meeting at AT & T in Hoffman Estates and
> then another at Thoughtworks am impressed.  Was just wondering if these
> processes were used in Python shops.
>
> Randy
>
> --- On Wed, 11/14/12, sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.
>
> Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of
> success). Do you have followup questions?



--
sheila

From steve at agilitynerd.com  Wed Nov 14 16:37:12 2012
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:37:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY2=Tfo1TrC3_aMOnDVnFdXpNYrHtT_kgu2OndSrY7Yw4x1XQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>only solutions I've come up with are A) making functions small but
not that small, and B) defining functions inside other functions, so that
it's clear what functions are there purely for the benefit of other
functions.

> Any ideas on that front? Isn't there such a thing as splitting functions
> up *too* much?
>
A few thoughts I haven't seen anyone else mention yet:
- small functions are easier to write tests for. Ideally they have a well
defined effect and can be named in a way that makes it possible to "just"
read the code of their callers without having to delve in to each function
to find out what it does.
- functions inside functions are definitely not easier to write tests for.
- I prepend "_" to function names for "helper" functions that are not part
of the "API" exposed by the module and put them in module scope. Sometimes
I'll push them down to the bottom of the module to further de-emphasize
them wrt the module's external API.

Best Regards,
Steve
Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 16:47:19 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:47:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rYUFR6OX3oniCorsP7_fxREZJmAZ2i4uHFRi83huyiUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHCs_radLSYnh5a9_F01C--RJzOFOQ=x=Hip2ov0wBDxTi3Qow@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAHCs_rYUFR6OX3oniCorsP7_fxREZJmAZ2i4uHFRi83huyiUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545C4552-6F71-4A6C-B4DD-D29B1A0AA9D5@gmail.com>

I've found going through this list of questions http://www.basilv.com/psd/blog/2009/100-interview-questions-to-ask-employers and cherry picking a dozen or so can get you a somewhat good idea.

What else I've done is look around and find a current or past employee and ask them about the place.

A shop should have _a_ process, and it shouldn't be straight up SCRUM, XP, or whatever. Each place is different and they should have adapted something to their needs.

I can't find it, but I read a really good article that gave some really good evidence that most places have taken every single step in the agile manifesto and done the exact opposite. The gist was, if you're being dogmatic, then you're already breaking the ideas behind the manifesto.

On Nov 14, 2012, at 9:33 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> The reality is that you'd probably find it difficult to get a shop to
> say that it isn't following agile processes.
> 
> So, when I have this kind of question, it's usually in the context of
> trying to figure out what a place is *really* like. For example, I
> worked at some place that had a morning "stand-up" that was really a
> never ending status meeting.
> 
> You can't just come out and ask a recruiter whether people at their
> company are coding cowboys who break the build all the time like
> maniacs or are "heros" who think they are awesome for fixing something
> at 2 am in a coffee haze in only! 151!1 minutes rather than doing
> things in sensible way to begin with, the jersk.
> 
> So, I dunno, I might ask why they are hiring (high turnover? bad
> sign). What kinds of ci tools they use (clueless answers would be a
> bad sign).
> 
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:
>> 
>> A few years back I attended a PM meeting at AT & T in Hoffman Estates and
>> then another at Thoughtworks am impressed.  Was just wondering if these
>> processes were used in Python shops.
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> --- On Wed, 11/14/12, sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.
>> 
>> Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of
>> success). Do you have followup questions?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 17:12:57 2012
From: kumar.mcmillan at gmail.com (Kumar McMillan)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:12:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Two last procratinating questions
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwor=JOz3bWXX2EZuO7nnJuBJviAjDGiQfo0_osvSvMLKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHCs_rZpg1BbVaNtF3mWQh9247BsYA1Vhe27o+uZdhx0oeBdPQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:36 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, that was also my reaction, which is why I asked for more details.
>>
>> Randall, most places follow agile methodologies (to varying degrees of
>> success). Do you have followup questions?
>>
> I think the better question is "who in 2012 isn't agile?" but you need to
> define what agile you are looking for.
>

Agile (with a capital A) is a very specific thing so it is easy to define:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development I'd agree with
Brian here. I think most software development is Agile by nature since it
is incremental, iterative, and generally self-organizing (especially in
open source). If anyone isn't releasing frequently and iteratively then
they are probably up against some kind of hardware constraint -- e.g.
shipping a physical phone, relying on a manufactured chip, etc.
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 18:36:13 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:36:13 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:

> While it's hard to avoid side effects entirely (e.g. printing to
> stdout is a side effect), we can certainly be aware of them and try to
> make our functions side effect free as much as possible. If we're
> purists, we can use a language like Haskell that handles this problem
> explicitly [2].
>

A blog post on functional languages vs. imperative (so-called):

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/functionalism-versus-objectivism-again.html

I am using more Haskell myself in my curriculum writing (which writing I
gave a presentation about at Portland User Group last night, one of
two talks on teaching / learning Python).

Kirby

(in Portland, lurker on Chipy)

From orblivion at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 19:24:58 2012
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:24:58 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAPJgG3Rm_+C+iWtCh==JVxsEQHX3O2je=T+dx1dHvBSgNpYnDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>

Thinking more, I realized that in Haskell, this one-or-two line
function thing is practically enforced in the language, with the
exception of do notation. You somehow I do. I do think the concern I
brought up does happen there though. Not having higher level grouping
makes everything completely flat. I mean, we split things into files
for readability. There must be something to be said for hierarchy.

Good point on the testing. Somebody mentioned namespacing. So
basically make a class, and make all these things class methods? That
would pretty much accomplish the same or better as far as visually
grouping similar concerns, while still allowing for testing. Perhaps
I'll try that going forward.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:36 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>
>> While it's hard to avoid side effects entirely (e.g. printing to
>> stdout is a side effect), we can certainly be aware of them and try to
>> make our functions side effect free as much as possible. If we're
>> purists, we can use a language like Haskell that handles this problem
>> explicitly [2].
>>
>
> A blog post on functional languages vs. imperative (so-called):
>
> http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/functionalism-versus-objectivism-again.html
>
> I am using more Haskell myself in my curriculum writing (which writing I
> gave a presentation about at Portland User Group last night, one of
> two talks on teaching / learning Python).
>
> Kirby
>
> (in Portland, lurker on Chipy)
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From orblivion at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 19:25:17 2012
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:25:17 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3Rm_+C+iWtCh==JVxsEQHX3O2je=T+dx1dHvBSgNpYnDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAWRcS9zWC_GCGQ4SQWE+5JeGDRyUewrn1dm7u-vFr_k20CL7w@mail.gmail.com>

You somehow *make do.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thinking more, I realized that in Haskell, this one-or-two line
> function thing is practically enforced in the language, with the
> exception of do notation. You somehow I do. I do think the concern I
> brought up does happen there though. Not having higher level grouping
> makes everything completely flat. I mean, we split things into files
> for readability. There must be something to be said for hierarchy.
>
> Good point on the testing. Somebody mentioned namespacing. So
> basically make a class, and make all these things class methods? That
> would pretty much accomplish the same or better as far as visually
> grouping similar concerns, while still allowing for testing. Perhaps
> I'll try that going forward.
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:36 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>>
>>> While it's hard to avoid side effects entirely (e.g. printing to
>>> stdout is a side effect), we can certainly be aware of them and try to
>>> make our functions side effect free as much as possible. If we're
>>> purists, we can use a language like Haskell that handles this problem
>>> explicitly [2].
>>>
>>
>> A blog post on functional languages vs. imperative (so-called):
>>
>> http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/functionalism-versus-objectivism-again.html
>>
>> I am using more Haskell myself in my curriculum writing (which writing I
>> gave a presentation about at Portland User Group last night, one of
>> two talks on teaching / learning Python).
>>
>> Kirby
>>
>> (in Portland, lurker on Chipy)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From g at rre.tt  Wed Nov 14 20:23:22 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:23:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3Rm_+C+iWtCh==JVxsEQHX3O2je=T+dx1dHvBSgNpYnDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6sA1JuxuAfP_qO4+GtjiNNEbsvv6xwpPVOHqzUhc-Eumw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> There must be something to be said for hierarchy.

Indeed:

python -c "import this" | grep nested

From orblivion at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 20:34:02 2012
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:34:02 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6sA1JuxuAfP_qO4+GtjiNNEbsvv6xwpPVOHqzUhc-Eumw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3Rm_+C+iWtCh==JVxsEQHX3O2je=T+dx1dHvBSgNpYnDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sA1JuxuAfP_qO4+GtjiNNEbsvv6xwpPVOHqzUhc-Eumw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAWRcS8ouR=KYOPTfL68RFg6szmqCTamFHumYgvi6+yBJgaSuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I took that to mean something different:

----------

Nested:

for x in [1,2,3]:
    for y in [4,5,6]:
        print x, y

Flatter:

from itertools import product

for x, y in product([1,2,3], [4,5,6]):
    print x, y

------------

This sort of "flatness" is inherently easier to read than the radical
function splitting because it's sequential. It describes a narrative.
Instead of "for each of these, then again for each of those, do this",
which is harder to follow, you say "for each combination of these and
those, do this".

What you're eliminating with the splitting into functions isn't what
would I thought was referred to as "nested". Your original code was
only a little nested. You eliminated some nesting but you mostly
eliminated length.

Though maybe I've just been following a false Zen.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There must be something to be said for hierarchy.
>
> Indeed:
>
> python -c "import this" | grep nested
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From g at rre.tt  Wed Nov 14 21:08:19 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:08:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS8ouR=KYOPTfL68RFg6szmqCTamFHumYgvi6+yBJgaSuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6uu=dp5SisNeq=xGLeSGJEz4=OyQy=7CU40Mdv_LWO9EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3Rm_+C+iWtCh==JVxsEQHX3O2je=T+dx1dHvBSgNpYnDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS8sQ=OU3unqGkBMA+PGJoPWGqTevr2DTY4v-5-x7jc=Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACU=p6sA1JuxuAfP_qO4+GtjiNNEbsvv6xwpPVOHqzUhc-Eumw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS8ouR=KYOPTfL68RFg6szmqCTamFHumYgvi6+yBJgaSuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6sj1TTFzzMQGiG6rHz0RhS1FVsVBarwALAgVRMO=dF_4w@mail.gmail.com>

That's right - the blog post example is about translating statements
into functions to better elaborate intent, which hopefully makes the
program more obvious.

So lines count is indeed a better proxy for what I'm getting at.

But it's hard to get too nested when your functions average 1 - 2 LOC :)

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
> I took that to mean something different:
>
> ----------
>
> Nested:
>
> for x in [1,2,3]:
>     for y in [4,5,6]:
>         print x, y
>
> Flatter:
>
> from itertools import product
>
> for x, y in product([1,2,3], [4,5,6]):
>     print x, y
>
> ------------
>
> This sort of "flatness" is inherently easier to read than the radical
> function splitting because it's sequential. It describes a narrative.
> Instead of "for each of these, then again for each of those, do this",
> which is harder to follow, you say "for each combination of these and
> those, do this".
>
> What you're eliminating with the splitting into functions isn't what
> would I thought was referred to as "nested". Your original code was
> only a little nested. You eliminated some nesting but you mostly
> eliminated length.
>
> Though maybe I've just been following a false Zen.
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There must be something to be said for hierarchy.
>>
>> Indeed:
>>
>> python -c "import this" | grep nested
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From g at rre.tt  Wed Nov 14 22:44:27 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:44:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] TechMesh conference discounts
Message-ID: <CACU=p6v5czpQG9qkvcsfbRfL_LcKugDWWOzFfoPSFv7iydQ+2w@mail.gmail.com>

It's in London in a few weeks, but TechMesh promises to be an
off-the-charts awesome conference:

http://techmeshconf.com/

I have access to both student and professional discounts on conference
passes, if anyone is interested.

Please ping me off list.

Garrett

From maney at two14.net  Thu Nov 15 14:15:01 2012
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:15:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:35:17PM -0800, Dan Krol wrote:
> One thing I struggle with on this count is that spitting it up to this
> degree makes it confusing all over again, because there's so many
> functions, so many lines of logic to follow. There's no indicating what the
> "main idea" is, you just have to read it all to find out what isn't being
> called by everything else.

The intention may have been to suggest a good design approach, but if
so it's a really poor example.  I've been struggling with finsing a way
to talk about the problems, and I think Google has finally found me a
simple way to approach it.  Read this:

  http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0073191264/371536/Ch07.pdf

The whole issue of module size is, at best, an approximation to the
real issues of cohesion and coupling.  And, yeah, none of this has
changed all that much since the seventies.  At the most, OOP and FP and
fad-of-the-month-Programming have all been, at bottom, attempts to make
good cohesion and low coupling "just happen".

Have you ever considered that an object is a bunch of related functions
with a bunch of locally-global variables?  Not, perhaps, the best OOP,
but c'mon, I'm sure you've seen this if not written it yourself. 
Nested functions, likewise, have value, but often suffer from the
"simplification" of implicitly sharing the enclosing-and-calling
scope's locals as the nested function's globals.  Back int he day
FORTRAN had this named COMMON thing to support the same concept.

> Any ideas on that front? Isn't there such a thing as splitting functions up
> *too* much?

>From Ch07:

  If a software organization insists that modules must be neither too
  big nor too small, then two undesirable things happen.  First, two or
  more otherwise ideal smaller modules are lumped together to create a
  larger module with coincidental cohesion.  Second, pieces hacked from
  well-designed modules that management considers too large are
  combined, again resulting in modules with coincidental cohesion.

-- 
If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess
himself of it.  -- Thomas Jefferson


From orblivion at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 16:41:57 2012
From: orblivion at gmail.com (Dan Krol)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:41:57 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, I'm not against writing one or two line functions or one or two
function modules when it represents appropriate coupling. I was just
focusing on the fact that *every* function in the example was like
this, and perhaps I took that aspect of the example to be a key point
when I shouldn't have.


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:15 AM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:35:17PM -0800, Dan Krol wrote:
>> One thing I struggle with on this count is that spitting it up to this
>> degree makes it confusing all over again, because there's so many
>> functions, so many lines of logic to follow. There's no indicating what the
>> "main idea" is, you just have to read it all to find out what isn't being
>> called by everything else.
>
> The intention may have been to suggest a good design approach, but if
> so it's a really poor example.  I've been struggling with finsing a way
> to talk about the problems, and I think Google has finally found me a
> simple way to approach it.  Read this:
>
>   http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0073191264/371536/Ch07.pdf
>
> The whole issue of module size is, at best, an approximation to the
> real issues of cohesion and coupling.  And, yeah, none of this has
> changed all that much since the seventies.  At the most, OOP and FP and
> fad-of-the-month-Programming have all been, at bottom, attempts to make
> good cohesion and low coupling "just happen".
>
> Have you ever considered that an object is a bunch of related functions
> with a bunch of locally-global variables?  Not, perhaps, the best OOP,
> but c'mon, I'm sure you've seen this if not written it yourself.
> Nested functions, likewise, have value, but often suffer from the
> "simplification" of implicitly sharing the enclosing-and-calling
> scope's locals as the nested function's globals.  Back int he day
> FORTRAN had this named COMMON thing to support the same concept.
>
>> Any ideas on that front? Isn't there such a thing as splitting functions up
>> *too* much?
>
> From Ch07:
>
>   If a software organization insists that modules must be neither too
>   big nor too small, then two undesirable things happen.  First, two or
>   more otherwise ideal smaller modules are lumped together to create a
>   larger module with coincidental cohesion.  Second, pieces hacked from
>   well-designed modules that management considers too large are
>   combined, again resulting in modules with coincidental cohesion.
>
> --
> If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an
> idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps
> it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into
> the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess
> himself of it.  -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From pkaushik at alum.mit.edu  Thu Nov 15 01:42:39 2012
From: pkaushik at alum.mit.edu (Pallavi Anderson)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 18:42:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Get together with Jim Newton @ Bar Novo tomorrow
	(Thursday) at 8 pm
Message-ID: <CAJ+pH7EOwcbRDnYS-67yFath4gh4rf_j2Y3oVfRWi67qTq=xeA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone:

A few folks are getting together with Jim Newton (founder of
http://www.techshop.ws/) at Bar Novo tomorrow at 8pm, to start a
conversation about bringing TechShop to Chicago. Please head on over
to Bar Novo at 8pm if you want to join them. It's going to be
informal, and you'll probably be able to recognize the group but if
you plan to attend and need a contact number, email me.

Regards,

Pallavi

From doc.n.try at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 19:55:08 2012
From: doc.n.try at gmail.com (Gang Huang)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:55:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brian,

What kind of contribution were you talking about? And if it's programming
contribution, what can I do to help? I would love to work on a project with
people in the group.

Gang Huang






On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Several positions have opened up and I will be sending over a batch to
> those of you who are looking for something simular. I will give my personal
> recommendations to those of you who have contributed to the group. If you
> wish to be included in the next batch, please let me know ASAP.
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 20:00:28 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:00:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>

That is a good question. Speaking, attending, contributing to this list,
are all contributions in my mind.  Also, concerning a programming task,
Cezar may better answer if could delegate a task from our website re-write
project, Cezar?

Also, we do sometimes take on Sprints. Brian Curtin mentioned one but I see
it failed to happen due to lack of bodies interested in contributing. I
have hosted successful Sprints on projects in the past.


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> What kind of contribution were you talking about? And if it's programming
> contribution, what can I do to help? I would love to work on a project with
> people in the group.
>
> Gang Huang
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Several positions have opened up and I will be sending over a batch to
>> those of you who are looking for something simular. I will give my personal
>> recommendations to those of you who have contributed to the group. If you
>> wish to be included in the next batch, please let me know ASAP.
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 20:51:32 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:51:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>

For the website, take a look peek at https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/668039# and https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org

If you want to do some work on the site. Let me know and I'll add you to pivotal.

The process is:
- Follow the directions in the README and get it up and running locally.
- You can then start a user story on pivotal OR look at the mockups and see what user story is missing and write one up. 
- Open up a pull request on Github and we'll do code review and pull it in. Note: You can open a pull request early for discussion. If that seems weird check out http://zachholman.com/talk/how-github-uses-github-to-build-github

This is for anybody that would like to help.

On Nov 15, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> That is a good question. Speaking, attending, contributing to this list, are all contributions in my mind.  Also, concerning a programming task, Cezar may better answer if could delegate a task from our website re-write project, Cezar?
> 
> Also, we do sometimes take on Sprints. Brian Curtin mentioned one but I see it failed to happen due to lack of bodies interested in contributing. I have hosted successful Sprints on projects in the past.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Brian,
> 
> What kind of contribution were you talking about? And if it's programming contribution, what can I do to help? I would love to work on a project with people in the group.
> 
> Gang Huang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Several positions have opened up and I will be sending over a batch to those of you who are looking for something simular. I will give my personal recommendations to those of you who have contributed to the group. If you wish to be included in the next batch, please let me know ASAP.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
> 

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From doc.n.try at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 22:22:01 2012
From: doc.n.try at gmail.com (Gang Huang)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:22:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or where
I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park so I
vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)

Gang Huang




On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> For the website, take a look peek at
> https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/668039# and
> https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org
>
> If you want to do some work on the site. Let me know and I'll add you to
> pivotal.
>
> The process is:
> - Follow the directions in the README and get it up and running locally.
> - You can then start a user story on pivotal OR look at the mockups and
> see what user story is missing and write one up.
> - Open up a pull request on Github and we'll do code review and pull it
> in. Note: You can open a pull request early for discussion. If that seems
> weird check out
> http://zachholman.com/talk/how-github-uses-github-to-build-github
>
> This is for anybody that would like to help.
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is a good question. Speaking, attending, contributing to this list,
> are all contributions in my mind.  Also, concerning a programming task,
> Cezar may better answer if could delegate a task from our website re-write
> project, Cezar?
>
> Also, we do sometimes take on Sprints. Brian Curtin mentioned one but I
> see it failed to happen due to lack of bodies interested in contributing. I
> have hosted successful Sprints on projects in the past.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>> What kind of contribution were you talking about? And if it's programming
>> contribution, what can I do to help? I would love to work on a project with
>> people in the group.
>>
>> Gang Huang
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Several positions have opened up and I will be sending over a batch to
>>> those of you who are looking for something simular. I will give my personal
>>> recommendations to those of you who have contributed to the group. If you
>>> wish to be included in the next batch, please let me know ASAP.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Ray
>>> @brianray
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Fri Nov 16 03:19:06 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:19:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or where
> I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park so I
> vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)

I've tried to start a few sprints/hack nights but have gotten
near-zero response. There was recently an event put on by someone
(Chad?) that seemed to have gotten some good turnout, so maybe they
have an answer.

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 03:25:36 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:25:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZLKFEce1kajT0ePDq1HZptwg_gHkLsqZH_agP6wUKp4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or where
>> I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park so I
>> vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)
>
> I've tried to start a few sprints/hack nights but have gotten
> near-zero response. There was recently an event put on by someone
> (Chad?) that seemed to have gotten some good turnout, so maybe they
> have an answer.

There's python meetups at ps1 every 1st and 3rd thursday of the month,
but we haven't been seeing a lot of new people. There's also Wednesday
night hack nights at freegeek Chicago.

We should all join forces, like an 80s robot cartoon.

-- 
sheila

From maney at two14.net  Fri Nov 16 04:00:46 2012
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:00:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 07:41:57AM -0800, Dan Krol wrote:
> Sure, I'm not against writing one or two line functions or one or two
> function modules when it represents appropriate coupling. I was just
> focusing on the fact that *every* function in the example was like
> this, and perhaps I took that aspect of the example to be a key point
> when I shouldn't have.

Yeah, sorry, it was early and I was short on time before I had to get
going.  I was really more agreeing with your remarks, but replying to a
bunch of other replies that, if I understood them, seemed to be
unreservedly approving of this IMO poor example of program refinement. 

I too have had a very hard time seeing it as anything more than
pointless text shuffling.  Replace db.cursor() by get_cursor(db)? 
That's just playing with the text; perhaps it was a mistake to give up
punch cards after all. :-/  If the former is so obviously correct when
it's inside the latter, what makes it less obvious inlined, without the
cargo-cult trappings?

-- 
If the best we can do is make technology as dangerous, non-robust,
capricious, arcane, alienating, marginal, and costly as "magic",
then we have really crappy technology.  -- goliard


From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Fri Nov 16 04:35:46 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:35:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <50A5B492.5070800@threecrickets.com>

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From doc.n.try at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 04:40:09 2012
From: doc.n.try at gmail.com (Gang Huang)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:40:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZLKFEce1kajT0ePDq1HZptwg_gHkLsqZH_agP6wUKp4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZLKFEce1kajT0ePDq1HZptwg_gHkLsqZH_agP6wUKp4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOy_7eMgJm4=PZR+MUj0DbGp+uYSw7x+YqE8aYmeS3yTpSBoXg@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed! And it looks like I just missed today's meetup. Where is the meetup
btw?

Gang Huang




On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:25 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or
> where
> >> I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park
> so I
> >> vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)
> >
> > I've tried to start a few sprints/hack nights but have gotten
> > near-zero response. There was recently an event put on by someone
> > (Chad?) that seemed to have gotten some good turnout, so maybe they
> > have an answer.
>
> There's python meetups at ps1 every 1st and 3rd thursday of the month,
> but we haven't been seeing a lot of new people. There's also Wednesday
> night hack nights at freegeek Chicago.
>
> We should all join forces, like an 80s robot cartoon.
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 05:30:01 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:30:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>

Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.

On Nov 15, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or where
>> I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park so I
>> vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)
> 
> I've tried to start a few sprints/hack nights but have gotten
> near-zero response. There was recently an event put on by someone
> (Chad?) that seemed to have gotten some good turnout, so maybe they
> have an answer.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 06:11:13 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:11:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHt_O20OqxEMXPYYx_M4S7Dg=1tHQKdYVu-Co_KYehnWGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wasn't there a group on this list a few years back who met for coffee early
in the morning on weekdays to work on side-projects? I'd love to
join/revive that if possible. I'm up early most days but squander it on
reddit/hackernews/whatever. Even just having a time and place to work in
the company of others who feel the same way would be pretty motivating.

--matt


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone
> around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something
> on there.
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Gang Huang <doc.n.try at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Cool! Also, do you guys know any python hack night around Chicago? Or
> where
> >> I can locate some? If not, we should start one. I live in Wicker Park
> so I
> >> vote somewhere any of the cafes near here :)
> >
> > I've tried to start a few sprints/hack nights but have gotten
> > near-zero response. There was recently an event put on by someone
> > (Chad?) that seemed to have gotten some good turnout, so maybe they
> > have an answer.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brian at python.org  Fri Nov 16 10:54:26 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 03:54:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpopCsco29tEs2=Ffjm6giT5S6UhLKZEmCe0vj3ksQmbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.

Lots of Python user groups have been using meetup and a bunch of them
are switching to it. The PSF will pay the fees for any Python group
that wants to use it.

The Boston Python group has been using meetup for quite a while to
organize their monthly meetings as well as their monthly project
nights. I doubt it's actually related to their use of meetup, but they
get huge participation in all of their events.

From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 13:33:21 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:33:21 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpopCsco29tEs2=Ffjm6giT5S6UhLKZEmCe0vj3ksQmbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpopCsco29tEs2=Ffjm6giT5S6UhLKZEmCe0vj3ksQmbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB2NXKrBvC4cPrdo9GoYk52Am-j83-4kvADQwm7M-S6NWA@mail.gmail.com>

I switched the Grand Rapids Python Group to Meetup about 6 months ago.
I have seen a 25%-50% increase in new attendees and can attribute it
almost entirely to Meetups' networking effect. As people sign up for a
group on Meetup, they indicate their interests. It then suggests other
groups they may want to join. I was skeptical for a long time,  but it
really can make a difference.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.
>
> Lots of Python user groups have been using meetup and a bunch of them
> are switching to it. The PSF will pay the fees for any Python group
> that wants to use it.
>
> The Boston Python group has been using meetup for quite a while to
> organize their monthly meetings as well as their monthly project
> nights. I doubt it's actually related to their use of meetup, but they
> get huge participation in all of their events.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 15:35:37 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:35:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.
>


I created a meetup account for the Chicago Python Workshop (Like the
Boston group). People sign up for the workshop meetup, ranging from
people with no programming experience to people with 10+ years. Many
of the introductions say things like "would love to meet other
Pythonistas"

Despite linking to chipy in the description of the group, I haven't
seen an uptick in attendance. People don't read the introduction,
perhaps, or forget that chipy exists because there isn't a monthly
entry.

I used to be anti-meetup, but not any more. If I was dictator, I'd
make a meetup. Here's the meetup namespace I made for workshops. I
wish it was in a chipy namespace, and I wish there were signups for
things like hack-nights, sprints, etc.

http://www.meetup.com/Chicago-Python-Workshop/



-- 
sheila

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 15:55:37 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:55:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <023C101F-CBEF-48F7-9D68-2711A744548B@gmail.com>

If anyone does decide to use meetup and has any issues, let me know. The brother of the CEO is in my cycling club. Phone to the top and all that.

On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:35 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.
>> 
> 
> 
> I created a meetup account for the Chicago Python Workshop (Like the
> Boston group). People sign up for the workshop meetup, ranging from
> people with no programming experience to people with 10+ years. Many
> of the introductions say things like "would love to meet other
> Pythonistas"
> 
> Despite linking to chipy in the description of the group, I haven't
> seen an uptick in attendance. People don't read the introduction,
> perhaps, or forget that chipy exists because there isn't a monthly
> entry.
> 
> I used to be anti-meetup, but not any more. If I was dictator, I'd
> make a meetup. Here's the meetup namespace I made for workshops. I
> wish it was in a chipy namespace, and I wish there were signups for
> things like hack-nights, sprints, etc.
> 
> http://www.meetup.com/Chicago-Python-Workshop/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 15:57:34 2012
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 08:57:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>

My goal is not necessarily to boost membership.  In fact, we have had some
big meetings this last year that would have become unmanageable if we had
100 more warm bodies. Instead, I like being a bit on the down-low so that
the members who attend our meetings actually have some clue. I am still
anticipating the day someone shows up with burmese python... and say they
found us on a MeetUp site.

I did attend Chad's meeting and it was well marketed, ran well, and well
attended. I suggest we take that sort of approach and pick something
specific, like Brian Curtin's Python Sprint, and take a swing at it.  We
can mimic the approach, yet the purpose and focus is so different we can
not expect the same exact results. Nonetheless, I am game to help with this.

On a side, note I did hear some people refer to ChiPy meeting as a
"MeetUp". I do not like the term and I sure hope we are more than a book
club. I see us as a community.



On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:35 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone
> around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something
> on there.
> >
>
>
> I created a meetup account for the Chicago Python Workshop (Like the
> Boston group). People sign up for the workshop meetup, ranging from
> people with no programming experience to people with 10+ years. Many
> of the introductions say things like "would love to meet other
> Pythonistas"
>
> Despite linking to chipy in the description of the group, I haven't
> seen an uptick in attendance. People don't read the introduction,
> perhaps, or forget that chipy exists because there isn't a monthly
> entry.
>
> I used to be anti-meetup, but not any more. If I was dictator, I'd
> make a meetup. Here's the meetup namespace I made for workshops. I
> wish it was in a chipy namespace, and I wish there were signups for
> things like hack-nights, sprints, etc.
>
> http://www.meetup.com/Chicago-Python-Workshop/
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 16:01:13 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZT=0K5GRkjWpFL+MKwnZvAiAV7G2TuyMhQdN6w+WQV3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Instead, I like being a bit on the down-low so that
> the members who attend our meetings actually have some clue. I am still
> anticipating the day someone shows up with burmese python... and say they
> found us on a MeetUp site.

The thing is, I care about clueless people and want to give them the
chance to join a community if they show up and realize that they too
can be programmers and contributors to projects.

and this is why I've slowly changed my mind about meetup (or other
things like that, maybe, eventbrite... some sort of equivalent thing).

I have all kinds of preconceptions and attitude about things like
meetup, but what the hell, that is due to a lot of privilege on my
part.



-- 
sheila

From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 16:05:17 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:05:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <023C101F-CBEF-48F7-9D68-2711A744548B@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<023C101F-CBEF-48F7-9D68-2711A744548B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbz9JAsnG76Czxhyh0VrpN=-Sn8XSF5huYKBc=O9_i7+w@mail.gmail.com>

I have issues. It's dis-empowering. People have to have accounts to
rsvp. I want an api so we can glue to their site and let people in who
don't have meetup accounts. Like, maybe people could rsvp on chipy.org
or on meetup, and when someone comes in through chipy.org it changes
the signup cap, and populates the list of attendees with something
like a mozilla Persona.

And since I would like that, and since we want to enable people to
become programmers, it could be a good beginner project.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> If anyone does decide to use meetup and has any issues, let me know. The brother of the CEO is in my cycling club. Phone to the top and all that.
>



-- 
sheila

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 16:05:43 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:05:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <367E6282-757F-45DB-B76D-670BBDE12EB8@gmail.com>


On Nov 16, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> My goal is not necessarily to boost membership.  In fact, we have had some big meetings this last year that would have become unmanageable if we had 100 more warm bodies. Instead, I like being a bit on the down-low so that the members who attend our meetings actually have some clue. I am still anticipating the day someone shows up with burmese python... and say they found us on a MeetUp site.

I agree, membership levels are great, don't change a thing. That said, Meetup.com can be used for other Chipy events. There are a load of technical groups using Meetup. The MongoDB group, Heroku, Software Craftmanship, etc, etc.

I believe you have some preconceived notion that people on Meetup don't have a clue, and I think that is unfounded from my experience with Meetup.

Besides, you don't have to create it, someone else did. http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/

> 
> I did attend Chad's meeting and it was well marketed, ran well, and well attended. I suggest we take that sort of approach and pick something specific, like Brian Curtin's Python Sprint, and take a swing at it.  We can mimic the approach, yet the purpose and focus is so different we can not expect the same exact results. Nonetheless, I am game to help with this.
> 
> On a side, note I did hear some people refer to ChiPy meeting as a "MeetUp". I do not like the term and I sure hope we are more than a book club. I see us as a community. 

I resemble that comment. My cycling club uses Meetup and it's been around since 1977, it's more than a book club.

> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:35 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Meetup.com seems to have a ton of traction right now. I think someone around here had an account. Would probably be a good idea to put something on there.
> >
> 
> 
> I created a meetup account for the Chicago Python Workshop (Like the
> Boston group). People sign up for the workshop meetup, ranging from
> people with no programming experience to people with 10+ years. Many
> of the introductions say things like "would love to meet other
> Pythonistas"
> 
> Despite linking to chipy in the description of the group, I haven't
> seen an uptick in attendance. People don't read the introduction,
> perhaps, or forget that chipy exists because there isn't a monthly
> entry.
> 
> I used to be anti-meetup, but not any more. If I was dictator, I'd
> make a meetup. Here's the meetup namespace I made for workshops. I
> wish it was in a chipy namespace, and I wish there were signups for
> things like hack-nights, sprints, etc.
> 
> http://www.meetup.com/Chicago-Python-Workshop/
> 
> 
> 
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 16:09:17 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:09:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <367E6282-757F-45DB-B76D-670BBDE12EB8@gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38tb29_FcMQs6mCukqrKtyD30ucKXEd+9DhxDeoW-Pt7Pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<367E6282-757F-45DB-B76D-670BBDE12EB8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbjf2qEuFXBe0_5RYfZrKLxksEZXDZ4xKNSCi1=pj320g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Besides, you don't have to create it, someone else did.
> http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/
>
omg I love you guys.





-- 
sheila

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 16:17:49 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:17:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Update your Python resume
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbz9JAsnG76Czxhyh0VrpN=-Sn8XSF5huYKBc=O9_i7+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38sAu9KrWVoWkvnSvRkbwojTYJaMTQmbCHhbu1BqCp7Bog@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7ePG6gPsH4T85hYo24pND6Z99tU7or1i1cLSi2JXLbrtnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANKg38vWdfNmH+AxtLJeZYF2WkRfO2hC1ghEz0SFi73j9v3YGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7F32495-FEFD-4E24-990C-F3ED850ABA29@gmail.com>
	<CAOy_7eO2H4vG=rNMLLA5L+EBwxRg=E3sYCvpGbUsagp2tKehFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpaJL1CuoQBezP5mFrtXSmO9fE9hWr8muQ8dwY3dPfGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA6EF9F6-9C73-46B8-B89C-DC5C3F8BF141@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<023C101F-CBEF-48F7-9D68-2711A744548B@gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rbz9JAsnG76Czxhyh0VrpN=-Sn8XSF5huYKBc=O9_i7+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A965DEBE-A879-4DE8-939A-0B6F4FFD1A1F@gmail.com>

I don't know if trying to push a cap back at Meetup would work so well. There are some race conditions with that approach. 

Best bet right now is just to see how ChipyFans effects attendance. If there is confusion with people RSVPing on there, might be best to set the cap to 0 on those events and in the event description point them to chipy.org

Note that I'm working on no account RSVPs on the new site, it's not an easy task from a UX point of view though. Not sure if it will work out since the barrier to creating an account with (Google, Github, OpenID, Persona) is so low it might not be worth the trouble.

On Nov 16, 2012, at 9:05 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> I have issues. It's dis-empowering. People have to have accounts to
> rsvp. I want an api so we can glue to their site and let people in who
> don't have meetup accounts. Like, maybe people could rsvp on chipy.org
> or on meetup, and when someone comes in through chipy.org it changes
> the signup cap, and populates the list of attendees with something
> like a mozilla Persona.
> 
> And since I would like that, and since we want to enable people to
> become programmers, it could be a good beginner project.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If anyone does decide to use meetup and has any issues, let me know. The brother of the CEO is in my cycling club. Phone to the top and all that.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Fri Nov 16 16:22:29 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:22:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] English names
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ0jPqiypDroALYsbJ0bmfDaP1pf1_-r+yUeymgAWC55Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1353079349.39222.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Here is code snippet from the last lecture summary for the U of Toronto Coursera course.
>>> colour_to_fruit = {}
>>> for fruit in fruit_to_colour:
    # What colour is the fruit?
    colour = fruit_to_colour[fruit]
    if not (colour in colour_to_fruit):
        colour_to_fruit[colour] = [fruit]
    else:
        colour_to_fruit[colour].append(fruit)
Since I am making my little syntax booklet in a 3 X 5 Moleskinnotebook I use col_to_f and that is fine for my own use.  Over the years and working in different shops and at levels from first white board set of thoughts to final documentation and newsletters I have had a lot of various means of commenting used both in programs and in job control languages.  As you can see even the idea of using English words may at times not define the same thing to everyone.  In my mind there may be an algebraic mapping that takes place for col_to_f that translates to colour_to_fruit and that may not be true for others who may later have to take my initial notes orresearch program and make it into production code or maintain and modify that code for system and language changes.  At onepoint in time I sat in a nice big office with a man who was a French educated through grade school Vietnamese fellow who then trained himself through the masters level then took a
 USdoctorate in Math.  He had been working for a couple of weeks to make the program of a physics doctorate from an Ivy Leagueschool into research code to be optimized for the Cray frontended by an MVS system.  At the time what I brought to thetable was an expertise in the system of programs this programwould eventually be dropped into and the command languages for various systems that these would run on.  It became clear that the stopping pointwas not national languages or computer languages but the graphical directions of x, y and z.  The folks from Toronto would still write even that as x, y, and z.  z would be pronounced zed.Thanks for the memories and may we all have fun getting our code working for collaborative efforts with others.Randy, whose name even means different things to different people. 

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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 16 16:22:38 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:22:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <50A5B492.5070800@threecrickets.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
	<50A5B492.5070800@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rY218--XdUdOe0k-7Z6JBJ1XaRy_zY-KoEAgF5rLfPM5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:
> It's not just playing with text, it's adding a point of control.
>
> To you use your excellent example, here are a few things you can control
> with get_cursor, which would affect the entire application:
>
> 1) Write to the log every time you get a cursor.

things like this. yes. cross cutting concerns like logging and
monitoring really get in the way. have some unnecessary cognitive
overhead when you are reading the code for the real point of it.

I do often hate how aspect oriented programming turns out in the real
world with the burning passion of a million million suns, though, so a
topic for another discussion is how to not to invoke the hate and
maybe things like python or other dynamic languages make it much
better than things like java/spring.

> 2) Return mock cursors instead of real ones, for testing.

yes.

> 3) Maintain a list of all cursors used by your application, and have a
> watch-dog thread notify you when they are held too long. Find bugs fast.
> 4) Wrap or monkey patch the cursor instance to support more functionality.
> ...
>
> I like my cargo cult. Pays the bills.

props to this entire discussion.

-- 
sheila

From g at rre.tt  Fri Nov 16 16:25:10 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:25:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 07:41:57AM -0800, Dan Krol wrote:
>> Sure, I'm not against writing one or two line functions or one or two
>> function modules when it represents appropriate coupling. I was just
>> focusing on the fact that *every* function in the example was like
>> this, and perhaps I took that aspect of the example to be a key point
>> when I shouldn't have.
>
> Yeah, sorry, it was early and I was short on time before I had to get
> going.  I was really more agreeing with your remarks, but replying to a
> bunch of other replies that, if I understood them, seemed to be
> unreservedly approving of this IMO poor example of program refinement.
>
> I too have had a very hard time seeing it as anything more than
> pointless text shuffling.  Replace db.cursor() by get_cursor(db)?
> That's just playing with the text; perhaps it was a mistake to give up
> punch cards after all. :-/  If the former is so obviously correct when
> it's inside the latter, what makes it less obvious inlined, without the
> cargo-cult trappings?

FP cargo cult? I wish.

Let's be clear, the whole point of the exercise is to play with text.
Whether it's pointless shuffling depends on what you're trying to
accomplish.

The premise is that *functions* are used to represent logic.
"db.cursor()" is a method invocation on an object, not a function. If
you concede that "getting a cursor" is an important logical operation
in the program, according to the rules of the text-playing-game, it
must be represented by a function.

If you want to be proper annoyed, read the big brother to the OP :)

http://www.gar1t.com/blog/2012/06/10/solving-embarrassingly-obvious-problems-in-erlang

Garrett

From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Nov 16 17:20:15 2012
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:20:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
	<CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSShL+rRTjr953DxdVdSooomMZBp++r30w-0xGNWmqmBw_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> Let's be clear, the whole point of the exercise is to play with text.
> Whether it's pointless shuffling depends on what you're trying to
> accomplish.
>
> The premise is that *functions* are used to represent logic.
> "db.cursor()" is a method invocation on an object, not a function. If
> you concede that "getting a cursor" is an important logical operation
> in the program, according to the rules of the text-playing-game, it
> must be represented by a function.

wat?

In the calling code, db.cursor() and get_cursor(db) are the same.
What they do/return/affect can be the same, and there is no reason one
syntax/notation should imply some different behavior.      Assuming
the syntax of the language supports it, both can be decorated, both
can be passed as a parameter.

I think the db.cursor syntax has the advantage of what can be done
inside the definition: the oop code can call it's parent
implementation using

super(self).method(args)

Given that just passes some parameters to some other wad of code you
can implement the same thing as a function - you don't need opp.   oop
gives us the luxury of super() keeping track of the parent.  This
luxury imposes some consistent organization, which is a good thing.
It is kind of like name spaces, maybe it is just that.  What is/isn't
a name space doesn't really matter if they are both keeping things
organized and easy to follow.

-- 
Carl K

From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Fri Nov 16 20:22:02 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 13:22:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSShL+rRTjr953DxdVdSooomMZBp++r30w-0xGNWmqmBw_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
	<CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADmzSShL+rRTjr953DxdVdSooomMZBp++r30w-0xGNWmqmBw_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A6925A.6030606@threecrickets.com>

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From cwebber at dustycloud.org  Fri Nov 16 19:43:49 2012
From: cwebber at dustycloud.org (Christopher Allan Webber)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:43:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <87ehjtv15m.fsf@earlgrey.lan>

Late to the game but HUGE +1 here

If this didn't already happen in November's meeting, I'd head down to
Chicago to make a December meeting about this.

Tal Liron writes:

> Hey Pythoners,
>
> If you remember, a while ago I have a ChiPy talk about GObject, and how
> it makes it very easy to create binary C libraries that immediately
> support Python without any special bindings layer. I also gave a short
> introduction to Vala, a C#-inspired language based on GObject that makes
> it especially pleasurable to create those C binaries (it generates C
> code; there is no virtual machine or "runtime" involved). Finally, I
> also mentioned Genie, which is a Python-inspired dialect of Vala:
>
> https://live.gnome.org/Genie
>
> Since then, I've evaluated Genie and am ready to give a talk about it
> someday. Genie is exciting to Python programmers for a few reasons:
>
> 1) If Python isn't fast enough for your needs, you can optimize
> bottlenecks by "dropping" to Genie and then elegantly call that code
> from Python. Avoid paradigm switching.
> 2) Need to run Python on your embedded toaster? Genie compiles to
> standard ANSI C and is as portable as anything.
> 3) If you're writing a Python library, but want to allow it to be used
> from many other languages (Ruby, JS, C++, etc.) then Genie might be
> better.
> 4) If you're not actually using much of the Python standard libraries or
> ecosystem, there are many advantages in writing your application from
> scratch in Genie. This is actually what I'm working on right now.
>
> There's some comparison to be made with RPython (a PyPy project) ...
> worth a presentation slide:
>
> http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
>
> So, let me swim in a bathtub of +1's here.
>
> -Tal


From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 21:32:43 2012
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:32:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <87ehjtv15m.fsf@earlgrey.lan>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com>
	<87ehjtv15m.fsf@earlgrey.lan>
Message-ID: <CAKwoybgFk_wKpJswiMSKn_WziyU8az_GEL=0pZYSRttEk_8UHw@mail.gmail.com>

+1


On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
cwebber at dustycloud.org> wrote:

> Late to the game but HUGE +1 here
>
> If this didn't already happen in November's meeting, I'd head down to
> Chicago to make a December meeting about this.
>
> Tal Liron writes:
>
> > Hey Pythoners,
> >
> > If you remember, a while ago I have a ChiPy talk about GObject, and how
> > it makes it very easy to create binary C libraries that immediately
> > support Python without any special bindings layer. I also gave a short
> > introduction to Vala, a C#-inspired language based on GObject that makes
> > it especially pleasurable to create those C binaries (it generates C
> > code; there is no virtual machine or "runtime" involved). Finally, I
> > also mentioned Genie, which is a Python-inspired dialect of Vala:
> >
> > https://live.gnome.org/Genie
> >
> > Since then, I've evaluated Genie and am ready to give a talk about it
> > someday. Genie is exciting to Python programmers for a few reasons:
> >
> > 1) If Python isn't fast enough for your needs, you can optimize
> > bottlenecks by "dropping" to Genie and then elegantly call that code
> > from Python. Avoid paradigm switching.
> > 2) Need to run Python on your embedded toaster? Genie compiles to
> > standard ANSI C and is as portable as anything.
> > 3) If you're writing a Python library, but want to allow it to be used
> > from many other languages (Ruby, JS, C++, etc.) then Genie might be
> > better.
> > 4) If you're not actually using much of the Python standard libraries or
> > ecosystem, there are many advantages in writing your application from
> > scratch in Genie. This is actually what I'm working on right now.
> >
> > There's some comparison to be made with RPython (a PyPy project) ...
> > worth a presentation slide:
> >
> > http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/translation.html
> >
> > So, let me swim in a bathtub of +1's here.
> >
> > -Tal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From maney at two14.net  Sun Nov 18 00:37:12 2012
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:37:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
	<CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121117233712.GA30717@furrr.two14.net>

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:25:10AM -0600, Garrett Smith wrote:
> Let's be clear, the whole point of the exercise is to play with text.
> Whether it's pointless shuffling depends on what you're trying to
> accomplish.

Ah, so then there's little to be said, since I don't see any point in
avoiding constructs that are painfully bad in Erlang when writing code
in Python.  Which is not at all the same as saying FP has nothing to
teach us, but that's a whole lot different than just aping the form of
it (and if the latter isn't a Cargo Cult activity, what is?).

> "db.cursor()" is a method invocation on an object, not a function.

cursor = MySQLdb.cursor   # this can't work, it's not a function.

...

  cur = cursor(db)        # ROFL when it does

> If you want to be proper annoyed, read the big brother to the OP :)

Actually, I think that was the problem: you seemed to make sense in
Erlang (I read both before I first tried to express what bothered me
about the Python version) so I was expecting something equally sensible
- a useful, analogous treatment in Python, to suit the very different
languages.  As the old saw has it, you can write FORTRAN in pretty much
any language.  But why do such a thing?

-- 
Now people have pondered this time and again (Who dies? Everyone dies)
We suspect that we're more than mere mortal remains (Oh, everyone dies)
Wise men and prophets they've all had their say
  on the nature of our afterlives
But in case there's no beer there we'll have one more round (Oh everyone dies)
 -- James Keelaghan in "Who Dies?", an upbeat song about mortality


From g at rre.tt  Sun Nov 18 01:53:10 2012
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:53:10 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Factoring fun with functions in Python
In-Reply-To: <20121117233712.GA30717@furrr.two14.net>
References: <CACU=p6tD3wXXOg3XXFasmw8_+O66r-vxTTggk=QwE+5Q6X8U_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EACD365-B63B-46D4-864B-80C2DC31742B@gmail.com>
	<CAAWRcS_dwUB7v9g5hWMpgB6A4s72HN=XCgyjXxxemG0WUe1Xuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115131501.GA13761@furrr.two14.net>
	<CAAWRcS9ncdNRXSiC0t-ag93EO--1jh6GAE7HHxX3KnU2=jiD9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121116030046.GA18011@furrr.two14.net>
	<CACU=p6t-9u+X13Arm5G9jRCdvEjDEfEDZy5vZPmzu70X=jWhFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121117233712.GA30717@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6vWwAEdC8PtGa4a0qR2+dHHqUB=2+_NjQ1sC+qPZwS3eQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:25:10AM -0600, Garrett Smith wrote:
>> Let's be clear, the whole point of the exercise is to play with text.
>> Whether it's pointless shuffling depends on what you're trying to
>> accomplish.
>
> Ah, so then there's little to be said, since I don't see any point in
> avoiding constructs that are painfully bad in Erlang when writing code
> in Python.  Which is not at all the same as saying FP has nothing to
> teach us, but that's a whole lot different than just aping the form of
> it (and if the latter isn't a Cargo Cult activity, what is?).
>
>> "db.cursor()" is a method invocation on an object, not a function.
>
> cursor = MySQLdb.cursor   # this can't work, it's not a function.
>
> ...
>
>   cur = cursor(db)        # ROFL when it does

I'm afraid you've lost me.

>> If you want to be proper annoyed, read the big brother to the OP :)
>
> Actually, I think that was the problem: you seemed to make sense in
> Erlang (I read both before I first tried to express what bothered me
> about the Python version) so I was expecting something equally sensible
> - a useful, analogous treatment in Python, to suit the very different
> languages.  As the old saw has it, you can write FORTRAN in pretty much
> any language.  But why do such a thing?

The premise isn't "here's what the cool kids are using, take it Python!"

It's this: convert important operations that are hidden in blocks of
code to functions.

You don't like the idea of converting a single line of code (still a
block) into a function because it's pointless text shuffling. So
don't. But surely you're not objecting to the idea that functions can
be used to formally define the logical operations of your program?

Or are you under the impression that this is merely a style-of-the-day
and we should get back to the canon of Good Programming, which is what
exactly?

Garrett

From randallbaxley at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 19 13:06:12 2012
From: randallbaxley at yahoo.com (Randall Baxley)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 04:06:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] The
Message-ID: <1353326772.92971.androidMobile@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

check this out http://msn.bcnews9.com/jobs/
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Fri Nov 16 13:54:50 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 04:54:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP system
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpopCsco29tEs2=Ffjm6giT5S6UhLKZEmCe0vj3ksQmbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1353070490.69715.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Is there not a reservation system written in Python?
Randy
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Mon Nov 19 14:42:39 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 05:42:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Do not open Re:  The
In-Reply-To: <1353326772.92971.androidMobile@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Arg, I was phished

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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 14:59:49 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:59:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Do not open Re:  The
In-Reply-To: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <424F9E6C-0C8F-4712-86D3-EC1FB7A96842@gmail.com>

This hit another mailing list I'm on, non computer related. Took a while to get the admin to understand the difference between Yahoo being hacked and a virus/trojan that attacks Yahoo mail.

He was close to closing the list to all Yahoo accounts.


On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

> 
> Arg, I was phished
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From brian at python.org  Mon Nov 19 15:16:01 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP system
In-Reply-To: <1353070490.69715.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAD+XWwpopCsco29tEs2=Ffjm6giT5S6UhLKZEmCe0vj3ksQmbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1353070490.69715.YahooMailClassic@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpWrsAB8=SxVpx__bzeZhUPRJsC6ST5wXD2MUDuXfjUuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Have you seen http://www.chipy.org/? It is such a system.

The current view may not show it because a meeting isn't listed, but the
front page's main focus is showing an event and having users RSVP.


On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net> wrote:

> Is there not a reservation system written in Python?
>
> Randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jordanb at hafd.org  Mon Nov 19 22:14:04 2012
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:14:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Do not open Re:  The
In-Reply-To: <424F9E6C-0C8F-4712-86D3-EC1FB7A96842@gmail.com>
References: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<424F9E6C-0C8F-4712-86D3-EC1FB7A96842@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50AAA11C.5060507@hafd.org>


If Yahoo is vulnerable to such a Trojan then they *have* been hacked to
the extent that client-side security has been compromised.

On 11/19/2012 07:59 AM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
> This hit another mailing list I'm on, non computer related. Took a while
> to get the admin to understand the difference between Yahoo being hacked
> and a virus/trojan that attacks Yahoo mail.
> 
> He was close to closing the list to all Yahoo accounts.
> 
> 
> On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net
> <mailto:rlbax777 at swbell.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Arg, I was phished
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 23:29:38 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:29:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Do not open Re:  The
In-Reply-To: <50AAA11C.5060507@hafd.org>
References: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<424F9E6C-0C8F-4712-86D3-EC1FB7A96842@gmail.com>
	<50AAA11C.5060507@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <26EBBCA3-D009-48D3-814B-F6D77EC7D430@gmail.com>

I think you misunderstand. The virus only cares about logging into Yahoo accounts. It gets the credentials off of the end user's machine.

On Nov 19, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:

> 
> If Yahoo is vulnerable to such a Trojan then they *have* been hacked to
> the extent that client-side security has been compromised.
> 
> On 11/19/2012 07:59 AM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
>> This hit another mailing list I'm on, non computer related. Took a while
>> to get the admin to understand the difference between Yahoo being hacked
>> and a virus/trojan that attacks Yahoo mail.
>> 
>> He was close to closing the list to all Yahoo accounts.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net
>> <mailto:rlbax777 at swbell.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Arg, I was phished
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From jordanb at hafd.org  Tue Nov 20 00:04:55 2012
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:04:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Do not open Re:  The
In-Reply-To: <26EBBCA3-D009-48D3-814B-F6D77EC7D430@gmail.com>
References: <1353332559.53781.YahooMailClassic@web185005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<424F9E6C-0C8F-4712-86D3-EC1FB7A96842@gmail.com>
	<50AAA11C.5060507@hafd.org>
	<26EBBCA3-D009-48D3-814B-F6D77EC7D430@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50AABB17.7080403@hafd.org>

That's still Yahoo's fault, unless it's using a browser bug to get
access to the credentials.

On 11/19/2012 04:29 PM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
> I think you misunderstand. The virus only cares about logging into Yahoo accounts. It gets the credentials off of the end user's machine.
> 
> On Nov 19, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>> If Yahoo is vulnerable to such a Trojan then they *have* been hacked to
>> the extent that client-side security has been compromised.
>>
>> On 11/19/2012 07:59 AM, Cezar Jenkins wrote:
>>> This hit another mailing list I'm on, non computer related. Took a while
>>> to get the admin to understand the difference between Yahoo being hacked
>>> and a virus/trojan that attacks Yahoo mail.
>>>
>>> He was close to closing the list to all Yahoo accounts.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Randall Baxley <rlbax777 at swbell.net
>>> <mailto:rlbax777 at swbell.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Arg, I was phished
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Tue Nov 20 05:52:32 2012
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:52:32 +0200
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoybgFk_wKpJswiMSKn_WziyU8az_GEL=0pZYSRttEk_8UHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50987028.80600@threecrickets.com> <87ehjtv15m.fsf@earlgrey.lan>
	<CAKwoybgFk_wKpJswiMSKn_WziyU8az_GEL=0pZYSRttEk_8UHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADipiAMe55Co_XeTe--h=w8yvkqUvrAcXB5ii6YprO+9X890Wg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, guys. I will plan something useful and fun for next month.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com>wrote:

> +1
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
> cwebber at dustycloud.org> wrote:
>
>> Late to the game but HUGE +1 here
>>
>
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From nerkles at gmail.com  Tue Nov 20 19:04:05 2012
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:04:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
Message-ID: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my
job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The
description is below:

---------------

IT & Web Development

Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in
1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be
responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as
three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework
and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and
workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle
local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN.

Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards.

Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X
Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful.

Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
$40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of
experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict
confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at
gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Wed Nov 21 14:10:50 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
In-Reply-To: <CADipiAMe55Co_XeTe--h=w8yvkqUvrAcXB5ii6YprO+9X890Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1353503450.86403.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

+1 for me as well.

--- On Mon, 11/19/12, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com> wrote:

From: Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Introducing Genie
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Date: Monday, November 19, 2012, 10:52 PM

Thanks, guys. I will plan something useful and fun for next month.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:

+1

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber at dustycloud.org> wrote:


Late to the game but HUGE +1 here



-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 01:18:59 2012
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:18:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>

ChiPy people:
I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter the
job market.

Then I saw this posting from this morning --
"Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
Then --
"$40k-$50k base salary"

It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going
rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?

- Rob


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my
> job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The
> description is below:
>
> ---------------
>
> IT & Web Development
>
> Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in
> 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be
> responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as
> three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework
> and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and
> workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
> desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle
> local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN.
>
> Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards.
>
> Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X
> Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful.
>
> Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
> $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of
> experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict
> confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at
> gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From johnstoner2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 01:30:12 2012
From: johnstoner2 at gmail.com (John Stoner)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:30:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXtMFD0+JovqRba4zYCE0Ae-ZFR0P77GTbmPkp7AdWx3m7YqQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's one posting. What did all the other postings say?


On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> ChiPy people:
> I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter the
> job market.
>
> Then I saw this posting from this morning --
>
> "Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
> Then --
> "$40k-$50k base salary"
>
> It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going
> rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
> Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?
>
> - Rob
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my
>> job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The
>> description is below:
>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> IT & Web Development
>>
>> Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in
>> 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be
>> responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as
>> three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework
>> and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and
>> workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
>> desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle
>> local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN.
>>
>> Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
>> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards.
>>
>> Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X
>> Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful.
>>
>> Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
>> $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of
>> experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict
>> confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at
>> gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
blogs:
http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/
'In knowledge is power; in  wisdom, humility.'
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From steve at agilitynerd.com  Thu Nov 22 01:34:29 2012
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:34:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> ChiPy people:
> I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter the
> job market.
>
> Then I saw this posting from this morning --
> "Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
> Then --
> "$40k-$50k base salary"
>
> It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going
> rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
> Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?
>
> - Rob
>

I didn't see the OP but don't think it is appropriate to dissect hiring
postings on this list; I'm glad they are interested in chipy folk.
AFAIK "It depends". If it is a financials/trading place you could be
looking at substantial bonuses (50-100%) over the base.

Best Regards,
Steve
Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
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From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 01:45:42 2012
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:45:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, you are right -- this is not a list to discuss outside job postings
--
except for the fact that this guy spammed our list with this posting.

It may be appropriate to give him a hard time for the low value that he
puts on us ;-)

-Rob
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From jordanb at hafd.org  Thu Nov 22 02:25:03 2012
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:25:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50AD7EEF.9050508@hafd.org>


Yeah 40k-50k seems very low to me, although they do only want two years
of experience and they claim there's an end-of-year bonus involved.

On 11/21/2012 06:18 PM, Rob Kapteyn wrote:
> ChiPy people:
> I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter
> the job market.
> 
> Then I saw this posting from this morning --
> "Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
> Then --
> "$40k-$50k base salary"
> 
> It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going
> rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
> Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?
> 
> - Rob
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com
> <mailto:nerkles at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!),
>     but my job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is
>     interested. The description is below:
> 
>     ---------------
> 
>     IT & Web Development
> 
>     Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded
>     in 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer.
>     You will be responsible for a large internal web app used for
>     recruiting as well as three public-facing websites. The internal app
>     is in the Pylons framework and the sites are in Django. Additional
>     duties include server and workstation maintenance and setups,
>     backups, networking, and some help desk. The office computers and
>     servers are all Mac. The servers handle local DNS, file sharing,
>     wiki and VPN. 
> 
>     Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI,
>     Ajax, HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards. 
> 
>     Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap,
>     OS X Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is
>     helpful. 
> 
>     Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
>     $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on
>     level of experience. Please email your resume and work
>     samples/portfolio, in strict confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq.,
>     President, at gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com
>     <mailto:gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com>.
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 02:29:01 2012
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:29:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKwoybjdwphn_rNm1Uy+4vRfnTpm+GiDui-Zj_S3Hq3w_yvuAQ@mail.gmail.com>

I balked at that myself.  This isn't just low, it's criminal.  I hope no
one responds to this.


On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> ChiPy people:
> I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter the
> job market.
>
> Then I saw this posting from this morning --
>
> "Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
> Then --
> "$40k-$50k base salary"
>
> It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going
> rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
> Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?
>
> - Rob
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my
>> job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The
>> description is below:
>>
>> ---------------
>>
>> IT & Web Development
>>
>> Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in
>> 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be
>> responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as
>> three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework
>> and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and
>> workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
>> desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle
>> local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN.
>>
>> Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
>> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards.
>>
>> Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X
>> Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful.
>>
>> Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
>> $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of
>> experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict
>> confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at
>> gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 02:31:19 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:31:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoybjdwphn_rNm1Uy+4vRfnTpm+GiDui-Zj_S3Hq3w_yvuAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKwoybjdwphn_rNm1Uy+4vRfnTpm+GiDui-Zj_S3Hq3w_yvuAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <774CDD65-D4DE-4B80-BB4D-2DCD2268EFAE@gmail.com>

Everything is dependent and relative. A job that is super flexible, with low hours, great benefits, good people, etc etc. can be just fine at 50k. Especially if they are flexible with entry level.

I've heard in Chicago you either make 60 or 90. :)

On Nov 21, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:

> I balked at that myself.  This isn't just low, it's criminal.  I hope no one responds to this.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
> ChiPy people:
> I've been trying to decide how much to ask when I officially re-enter the job market.
> 
> Then I saw this posting from this morning --
> 
> "Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax, HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards."
> Then --
> "$40k-$50k base salary"
> 
> It seems like a fun and interesting job, but isn't this ~HALF the going rate for this skill set in Chicago ?
> Or am I that far out-of-touch with the market ?
> 
> - Rob
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The description is below:
> 
> ---------------
> 
> IT & Web Development
> 
> Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN. 
> 
> Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax, HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards. 
> 
> Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful. 
> 
> Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual. $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Nov 22 03:25:54 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:25:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbNEweghdQWVhVsNVXpA-dvHUkCYMRnJyVrCLv3Z4fhYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com> wrote:

> AFAIK "It depends". If it is a financials/trading place you could be looking
> at substantial bonuses (50-100%) over the base.

Maybe that's why it seemed so low. I thought maybe I missed something.

and I thought perhaps expecting an entry level person to be that well
rounded was asking a lot. Was a bit unhappy that a company was trying
to lure some poor entry level person in, pay them hardly anything,
work them 50+ hours, and expect them to work like someone who has two
years more experience than they do. Please don't let it be that. I
guess if you get a 100% bonus and don't work too much overtime and
they offer proper benefits then it will seem more in line with the
market.


-- 
sheila

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Thu Nov 22 03:50:57 2012
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 20:50:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbNEweghdQWVhVsNVXpA-dvHUkCYMRnJyVrCLv3Z4fhYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rbNEweghdQWVhVsNVXpA-dvHUkCYMRnJyVrCLv3Z4fhYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdKVNgSR+7-rf=XpVoEFEidMuA8sNe7F8CYTUhTP392Mm9Riw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the feedback (some of it off list ;).
I agree that things are relative and flexibility can be worth it.
That Django job for the Burning Man festival from a few days ago would
certainly have non-fiduciary "benefits" and special job satisfaction for
the right person.

But this job is at placement firm for attorneys at "the largest law firms
and corporations in Chicago".
Not only that -- it looks like they want you to keep their on-site Mac OS X
Server running for them too.

And, even in the financial/trading industry -- the base salaries are
excellent.
Those bonuses are there to get you to work 60 hrs/week.


On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 8:25 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>
> wrote:
>
> > AFAIK "It depends". If it is a financials/trading place you could be
> looking
> > at substantial bonuses (50-100%) over the base.
>
> Maybe that's why it seemed so low. I thought maybe I missed something.
>
> and I thought perhaps expecting an entry level person to be that well
> rounded was asking a lot. Was a bit unhappy that a company was trying
> to lure some poor entry level person in, pay them hardly anything,
> work them 50+ hours, and expect them to work like someone who has two
> years more experience than they do. Please don't let it be that. I
> guess if you get a 100% bonus and don't work too much overtime and
> they offer proper benefits then it will seem more in line with the
> market.
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brian at python.org  Fri Nov 23 17:35:17 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:35:17 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, you are right -- this is not a list to discuss outside job postings
> --
> except for the fact that this guy spammed our list with this posting.

OP was not spam.

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 18:19:45 2012
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:19:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>

The OP was not spam but discussion as to whether the pay is suitable is
also on topic in my opinion. This could constitute valuable feedback for
the employer.

I gather that they have an in-house developed system and they are trying to
replace the developer. If that is the case they are setting themselves up
for failure. They need to double the amount or hire two people, because
working somebody else's setup is much harder than setting it up. That's
especially likely to be a problem if the previous developer was on a lowish
salary, primarily working alone, and had little or no incentive for outside
code reviews.

mt



On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, you are right -- this is not a list to discuss outside job
> postings
> > --
> > except for the fact that this guy spammed our list with this posting.
>
> OP was not spam.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From japhy at pearachute.com  Fri Nov 23 18:32:31 2012
From: japhy at pearachute.com (Japhy Bartlett)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:32:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>

To me the biggest red flag here was, "Additional duties include server and
workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
desk."

I'd read that as, "BTW, you'll be the only tech guy in the office, you'll
have to maintain all of the servers, fix the wifi when it goes down, and
hold the VP's hand when he manages to catch a virus."



On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Michael Tobis <mtobis at gmail.com> wrote:

> The OP was not spam but discussion as to whether the pay is suitable is
> also on topic in my opinion. This could constitute valuable feedback for
> the employer.
>
> I gather that they have an in-house developed system and they are trying
> to replace the developer. If that is the case they are setting themselves
> up for failure. They need to double the amount or hire two people, because
> working somebody else's setup is much harder than setting it up. That's
> especially likely to be a problem if the previous developer was on a lowish
> salary, primarily working alone, and had little or no incentive for outside
> code reviews.
>
> mt
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Rob Kapteyn <robkapteyn at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Sorry, you are right -- this is not a list to discuss outside job
>> postings
>> > --
>> > except for the fact that this guy spammed our list with this posting.
>>
>> OP was not spam.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 23 18:56:35 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:56:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com> wrote:
> To me the biggest red flag here was, "Additional duties include server and
> workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
> desk."
>
> I'd read that as, "BTW, you'll be the only tech guy in the office, you'll
> have to maintain all of the servers, fix the wifi when it goes down, and
> hold the VP's hand when he manages to catch a virus."
>

Yeah, that was also something that worried me. Like Michael said
upthread, it does sound like a place that is used to having one person
that does all of the things that get perceived as "computer stuff". I
had a job somewhat like that in college, and it was a lot of fun and I
learned a lot, but I wouldn't be that person for just any place. It
would have to be freaking fantastic. For something freaking fantastic,
I would be willing to be paid considerably less.

I think the discussion on the list could help the recruiter manage his
expectations.




-- 
sheila

From p.wallenberg at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 19:18:29 2012
From: p.wallenberg at gmail.com (Paul Wallenberg)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:18:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKLJN166F4fnR24dsDoc2jgaYuAQct_jhwzTU-+GMc5kOh+mqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:56 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> I think the discussion on the list could help the recruiter manage his
> expectations.
>

I don't think the OP was from a recruiter.  I think it was from the person
currently in the position right now saying "my job is opening up because I
am leaving.  This is what you can expect." - perhaps they can shed some
light on that.  That being said, it could be that the salary figure
reflects what the job paid when that person took it, however long ago, and
it needs to be adjusted for today. My understanding of the market right now
would indicate that $40-50K would be low for a position with those
requirements and responsibities.

- Paul Wallenberg
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From johnstoner2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 19:24:25 2012
From: johnstoner2 at gmail.com (John Stoner)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:24:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>

I think it sounds like a great position for a college student. Maybe if
they structured it as an internship it would work better. Hell, they could
pay even less.


On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:56 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>
> wrote:
> > To me the biggest red flag here was, "Additional duties include server
> and
> > workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
> > desk."
> >
> > I'd read that as, "BTW, you'll be the only tech guy in the office, you'll
> > have to maintain all of the servers, fix the wifi when it goes down, and
> > hold the VP's hand when he manages to catch a virus."
> >
>
> Yeah, that was also something that worried me. Like Michael said
> upthread, it does sound like a place that is used to having one person
> that does all of the things that get perceived as "computer stuff". I
> had a job somewhat like that in college, and it was a lot of fun and I
> learned a lot, but I wouldn't be that person for just any place. It
> would have to be freaking fantastic. For something freaking fantastic,
> I would be willing to be paid considerably less.
>
> I think the discussion on the list could help the recruiter manage his
> expectations.
>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
blogs:
http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/
'In knowledge is power; in  wisdom, humility.'
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 23:35:58 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:35:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>

If it was entry level, it would be fine. Years ago I started in that price range. The range would be fine because the employer would be taking a risk since the level of responsibility is quite above entry level.

There's also a chance that the jobs start as something simple 8 years ago and while the responsibilities and complexities have expanded, the pay wasn't adjusted.

On Nov 23, 2012, at 12:24 PM, John Stoner <johnstoner2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think it sounds like a great position for a college student. Maybe if they structured it as an internship it would work better. Hell, they could pay even less. 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:56 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com> wrote:
> > To me the biggest red flag here was, "Additional duties include server and
> > workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
> > desk."
> >
> > I'd read that as, "BTW, you'll be the only tech guy in the office, you'll
> > have to maintain all of the servers, fix the wifi when it goes down, and
> > hold the VP's hand when he manages to catch a virus."
> >
> 
> Yeah, that was also something that worried me. Like Michael said
> upthread, it does sound like a place that is used to having one person
> that does all of the things that get perceived as "computer stuff". I
> had a job somewhat like that in college, and it was a lot of fun and I
> learned a lot, but I wouldn't be that person for just any place. It
> would have to be freaking fantastic. For something freaking fantastic,
> I would be willing to be paid considerably less.
> 
> I think the discussion on the list could help the recruiter manage his
> expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> blogs:
> http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/
> 'In knowledge is power; in  wisdom, humility.' 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 17:14:55 2012
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:14:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAArJE+jyp1tGmDo50gCsuiquc1WkguJy_1Au=Wpj5otb0fbLMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I didn?t expect such a response. I am the person who?s leaving the job, not
a recruiter. If you?d like to ask more specific questions, please do, but
if you?re getting *really* specific, please ask off-list.

But to clarify a few things that have come up here:

It is not high hours, I rarely (as in almost never) worked >40/week. It?s
true this is a large app you?d be taking over plus the other things. Yes,
that?s hard to do.

There is now another person who handles the front line for help desk and I
only jump in if things get complicated (most of the time I?m designing &
coding). The OS X servers are low maintenance. Email is hosted externally
so you?re not dealing with that level of server madness or living tethered
to a pager.

Also the salary part has been revised to: "If full-time, $50k-$70k base
salary, plus year-end bonus, depending on level of experience."

HTH,
?Isaac




On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I?ve not been active in the group for a long time (how are ya?!), but my
> job is opening up, so I thought I?d see if anyone here is interested. The
> description is below:
>
> ---------------
>
> IT & Web Development
>
> Chicago Legal Search, Ltd., a leading legal recruiting firm founded in
> 1988, is seeking a well-rounded, full-time (9-5) web developer. You will be
> responsible for a large internal web app used for recruiting as well as
> three public-facing websites. The internal app is in the Pylons framework
> and the sites are in Django. Additional duties include server and
> workstation maintenance and setups, backups, networking, and some help
> desk. The office computers and servers are all Mac. The servers handle
> local DNS, file sharing, wiki and VPN.
>
> Minimum two years of experience with: Python (2.7.x), jQuery+UI, Ajax,
> HTML5, CSS3, MongoDB, OS X, Web Standards.
>
> Any experience with Pylons, Django, CoffeeScript, Twitter Bootstrap, OS X
> Server, Mercurial, nginx, uWSGI and responsive web design is helpful.
>
> Our 12-person company is entrepreneurial, collegial and very casual.
> $40k-$50k base salary, plus year-end bonus potential, depending on level of
> experience. Please email your resume and work samples/portfolio, in strict
> confidence, to Gary A. D'Alessio, Esq., President, at
> gdalessio at chicagolegalsearch.com.
>
>
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From nerkles at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 17:17:22 2012
From: nerkles at gmail.com (isaac)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:17:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> If it was entry level, it would be fine. Years ago I started in that price
> range. The range would be fine because the employer would be taking a risk
> since the level of responsibility is quite above entry level.
>
> There's also a chance that the jobs start as something simple 8 years ago
> and while the responsibilities and complexities have expanded, the pay
> wasn't adjusted.
>
>
I started 10 years ago, and yes it was much simpler then.
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From tim.saylor at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 18:48:49 2012
From: tim.saylor at gmail.com (Tim Saylor)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:48:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well that seems more reasonable.  How are we supposed to maintain this
level of outrage now?

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:17 AM, isaac <nerkles at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> If it was entry level, it would be fine. Years ago I started in that
>> price range. The range would be fine because the employer would be taking a
>> risk since the level of responsibility is quite above entry level.
>>
>> There's also a chance that the jobs start as something simple 8 years ago
>> and while the responsibilities and complexities have expanded, the pay
>> wasn't adjusted.
>>
>>
> I started 10 years ago, and yes it was much simpler then.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
@tsaylor
http://www.timsaylor.com/
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From steve at agilitynerd.com  Tue Nov 27 18:56:45 2012
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:56:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY2=Teiuq2aF1Lt+dai_2uoeMggU1=Uctf1R+bAKoh=_e7Ytg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well that seems more reasonable.  How are we supposed to maintain this
> level of outrage now?
>
+1!
Best Regards,
Steve
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Nov 27 19:44:12 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:44:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well that seems more reasonable.  How are we supposed to maintain this level
> of outrage now?

I know! People are too excellent.



-- 
sheila

From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 19:58:15 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:58:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>

hey Sheila,

   What happened to the amateur python class you was going to put together?


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:44 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well that seems more reasonable.  How are we supposed to maintain this
> level
> > of outrage now?
>
> I know! People are too excellent.
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Nov 27 20:53:33 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:53:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:58 PM, T Wilson <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
> hey Sheila,
>
>    What happened to the amateur python class you was going to put together?

I'm glad you asked.

Here's my state of the union of something.

1. ChipyFans
2. Chicago Python Workshop
3. Hack nights
4. Questions!

1. ChipyFans

First off, join the ChipyFans meetup group,
<http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/>. I'm going to post future workshops
there and retire the meetup group I made. Other people will post
things there too, not just me. Infact, things are already there.

2. Chicago Python Workshop

We've had one so far, and are planning another in December. These both
are workshops for improving diversity in the python community, a la
Railsbridge, Boston Python Workshop, PyStar, etc. You can see the
curriculum and organization from the wiki home,
<https://openhatch.org/wiki/Chicago_Python_Workshop>.

In the future I'd like to be able to organize some more general
beginner workshops, and then also some intermediate ones.  But I have
to pace them out because I can't manage more than one every couple of
months. Maybe once I have more experience I can do them more
frequently. Right now I'm still learning a lot.

3. Hack nights

I want to make sure everyone knows about the non-workshop project
nights that happen around the city.

There are some non-workshop events I've been attending:

I've been trying to make it to all of the ps:one python office hours,
and started a wiki page for it,
<http://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours>, I'd like to
have some pages up for starting points for people to follow based on
what they are interested in. For example, if someone doesn't have a
project, they could show up and follow a self-paced curriculum like
the Chicago Python Workshop's, which is completely for beginning
programming, or they could follow some other curricula, to be
determined. Around 5 to 10 people typically show up for office hours.
I actually expected a little more, maybe we should send out more
announcements? suggestions? Maybe it's just that people don't get to
that part of the city if they don't live around there?

I found out about OpenHack Wednesdays at FreeGeek
<http://freegeekchicago.org/calendar>, and I'm going to try to make
those at least once a month. I haven't been to one yet, but I heard
someone there teaches python, and has been teaching flask.

4. Questions

Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
don't show up to the office hours. When I started going to the office
hours, I expected more people to be there due to all the questions on
the mailing list. Is it because you didn't know about them? because of
the location? the time?

What kinds of topics would people like to have in a workshop? I would
like some pandas stuff.

Do we ever want a project night for a chipy meeting, or should chipy
meetings always be talks? The Boston group has project nights.




-- 
sheila

From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 21:37:02 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:37:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNS1eiFKz_kis1hRGOMUKbr=uoO5dPfMSSBN-B3b7rZakQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much.... I'm guilty of #4 i get off work and go straight to
class.  The semester is almost over. So i was hoping to get as Python in as
possible.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:53 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:58 PM, T Wilson <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hey Sheila,
> >
> >    What happened to the amateur python class you was going to put
> together?
>
> I'm glad you asked.
>
> Here's my state of the union of something.
>
> 1. ChipyFans
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
> 3. Hack nights
> 4. Questions!
>
> 1. ChipyFans
>
> First off, join the ChipyFans meetup group,
> <http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/>. I'm going to post future workshops
> there and retire the meetup group I made. Other people will post
> things there too, not just me. Infact, things are already there.
>
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
>
> We've had one so far, and are planning another in December. These both
> are workshops for improving diversity in the python community, a la
> Railsbridge, Boston Python Workshop, PyStar, etc. You can see the
> curriculum and organization from the wiki home,
> <https://openhatch.org/wiki/Chicago_Python_Workshop>.
>
> In the future I'd like to be able to organize some more general
> beginner workshops, and then also some intermediate ones.  But I have
> to pace them out because I can't manage more than one every couple of
> months. Maybe once I have more experience I can do them more
> frequently. Right now I'm still learning a lot.
>
> 3. Hack nights
>
> I want to make sure everyone knows about the non-workshop project
> nights that happen around the city.
>
> There are some non-workshop events I've been attending:
>
> I've been trying to make it to all of the ps:one python office hours,
> and started a wiki page for it,
> <http://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours>, I'd like to
> have some pages up for starting points for people to follow based on
> what they are interested in. For example, if someone doesn't have a
> project, they could show up and follow a self-paced curriculum like
> the Chicago Python Workshop's, which is completely for beginning
> programming, or they could follow some other curricula, to be
> determined. Around 5 to 10 people typically show up for office hours.
> I actually expected a little more, maybe we should send out more
> announcements? suggestions? Maybe it's just that people don't get to
> that part of the city if they don't live around there?
>
> I found out about OpenHack Wednesdays at FreeGeek
> <http://freegeekchicago.org/calendar>, and I'm going to try to make
> those at least once a month. I haven't been to one yet, but I heard
> someone there teaches python, and has been teaching flask.
>
> 4. Questions
>
> Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> don't show up to the office hours. When I started going to the office
> hours, I expected more people to be there due to all the questions on
> the mailing list. Is it because you didn't know about them? because of
> the location? the time?
>
> What kinds of topics would people like to have in a workshop? I would
> like some pandas stuff.
>
> Do we ever want a project night for a chipy meeting, or should chipy
> meetings always be talks? The Boston group has project nights.
>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From daviddumas at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 23:45:34 2012
From: daviddumas at gmail.com (David Dumas)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:45:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAChKUCZ0mqt=D2EK7SsfEM6o1icjMstWM83JC5xR3OECz7WDVw@mail.gmail.com>

> Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> don't show up to the office hours.

One would need to be a (paying) PS:One member to attend the office hours, right?

-David

From johnstoner2 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 23:47:29 2012
From: johnstoner2 at gmail.com (John Stoner)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:47:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAChKUCZ0mqt=D2EK7SsfEM6o1icjMstWM83JC5xR3OECz7WDVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAChKUCZ0mqt=D2EK7SsfEM6o1icjMstWM83JC5xR3OECz7WDVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXtMFDDwDtkVvK9n3CZwTptHKVQbau1_wB_Z6+voC==GQP1EA@mail.gmail.com>

no, not right at all.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM, David Dumas <daviddumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> > Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> > don't show up to the office hours.
>
> One would need to be a (paying) PS:One member to attend the office hours,
> right?
>
> -David
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
blogs:
http://johnstoner.wordpress.com/
'In knowledge is power; in  wisdom, humility.'
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From wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 23:48:47 2012
From: wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com (T Wilson)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAChKUCZ0mqt=D2EK7SsfEM6o1icjMstWM83JC5xR3OECz7WDVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAChKUCZ0mqt=D2EK7SsfEM6o1icjMstWM83JC5xR3OECz7WDVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACoHCNRmmnoLxEvAu0wXqvYsWJvTiTpu8ghX_NUJy4WF+1L60A@mail.gmail.com>

I leave work at 5pm and at school until 10pm you guys are way gone by then.
even if my class is downtown.  I don't think they want to meet on a Friday
or early Sat.  Heck I would take a Sunday if it's possible.


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM, David Dumas <daviddumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> > Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> > don't show up to the office hours.
>
> One would need to be a (paying) PS:One member to attend the office hours,
> right?
>
> -David
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From jwcampbell at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 23:51:40 2012
From: jwcampbell at gmail.com (Jim Campbell)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:51:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJK-oHUxXABSN4kpsSPzXiOi=UiYVDoaXGnqO2TE4xoeediLug@mail.gmail.com>

With regards to item #3, yes, David Eads of the Tribune (and of Free Geek)
organizes these. Lately people have been working on Django and Flask
projects. David has been helpful to people at all levels, but I'm sure more
people there to hack and / or tutor would be appreciated.

Also, note that these hack nights are scheduled from 6-8pm on Wednesdays,
and they typically stick pretty close to that schedule. The two hour limit
can be a plus or a minus, depending on your perspective. I think the time
limit helps to keep people focused, though, and it also helps to make sure
you get home at a decent hour.

I've been to the past few hack nights there, but have conflicting plans
this Wednesday, and won't be there this week.

Jim


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:53 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:58 PM, T Wilson <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hey Sheila,
> >
> >    What happened to the amateur python class you was going to put
> together?
>
> I'm glad you asked.
>
> Here's my state of the union of something.
>
> 1. ChipyFans
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
> 3. Hack nights
> 4. Questions!
>
> 1. ChipyFans
>
> First off, join the ChipyFans meetup group,
> <http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/>. I'm going to post future workshops
> there and retire the meetup group I made. Other people will post
> things there too, not just me. Infact, things are already there.
>
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
>
> We've had one so far, and are planning another in December. These both
> are workshops for improving diversity in the python community, a la
> Railsbridge, Boston Python Workshop, PyStar, etc. You can see the
> curriculum and organization from the wiki home,
> <https://openhatch.org/wiki/Chicago_Python_Workshop>.
>
> In the future I'd like to be able to organize some more general
> beginner workshops, and then also some intermediate ones.  But I have
> to pace them out because I can't manage more than one every couple of
> months. Maybe once I have more experience I can do them more
> frequently. Right now I'm still learning a lot.
>
> 3. Hack nights
>
> I want to make sure everyone knows about the non-workshop project
> nights that happen around the city.
>
> There are some non-workshop events I've been attending:
>
> I've been trying to make it to all of the ps:one python office hours,
> and started a wiki page for it,
> <http://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours>, I'd like to
> have some pages up for starting points for people to follow based on
> what they are interested in. For example, if someone doesn't have a
> project, they could show up and follow a self-paced curriculum like
> the Chicago Python Workshop's, which is completely for beginning
> programming, or they could follow some other curricula, to be
> determined. Around 5 to 10 people typically show up for office hours.
> I actually expected a little more, maybe we should send out more
> announcements? suggestions? Maybe it's just that people don't get to
> that part of the city if they don't live around there?
>
> I found out about OpenHack Wednesdays at FreeGeek
> <http://freegeekchicago.org/calendar>, and I'm going to try to make
> those at least once a month. I haven't been to one yet, but I heard
> someone there teaches python, and has been teaching flask.
>
> 4. Questions
>
> Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> don't show up to the office hours. When I started going to the office
> hours, I expected more people to be there due to all the questions on
> the mailing list. Is it because you didn't know about them? because of
> the location? the time?
>
> What kinds of topics would people like to have in a workshop? I would
> like some pandas stuff.
>
> Do we ever want a project night for a chipy meeting, or should chipy
> meetings always be talks? The Boston group has project nights.
>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brian at python.org  Wed Nov 28 00:12:31 2012
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:12:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoPROz+TObG_ELcfa6mfFaT-kpoA0j=Xwvr2H7ecKM=EQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:53 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:58 PM, T Wilson <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hey Sheila,
>>
>>    What happened to the amateur python class you was going to put together?
>
> I'm glad you asked.
>
> Here's my state of the union of something.
>
> 1. ChipyFans
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
> 3. Hack nights
> 4. Questions!
>
> 1. ChipyFans
>
> First off, join the ChipyFans meetup group,
> <http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/>. I'm going to post future workshops
> there and retire the meetup group I made. Other people will post
> things there too, not just me. Infact, things are already there.
>
> 2. Chicago Python Workshop
>
> We've had one so far, and are planning another in December. These both
> are workshops for improving diversity in the python community, a la
> Railsbridge, Boston Python Workshop, PyStar, etc. You can see the
> curriculum and organization from the wiki home,
> <https://openhatch.org/wiki/Chicago_Python_Workshop>.
>
> In the future I'd like to be able to organize some more general
> beginner workshops, and then also some intermediate ones.  But I have
> to pace them out because I can't manage more than one every couple of
> months. Maybe once I have more experience I can do them more
> frequently. Right now I'm still learning a lot.
>
> 3. Hack nights
>
> I want to make sure everyone knows about the non-workshop project
> nights that happen around the city.
>
> There are some non-workshop events I've been attending:
>
> I've been trying to make it to all of the ps:one python office hours,
> and started a wiki page for it,
> <http://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours>, I'd like to
> have some pages up for starting points for people to follow based on
> what they are interested in. For example, if someone doesn't have a
> project, they could show up and follow a self-paced curriculum like
> the Chicago Python Workshop's, which is completely for beginning
> programming, or they could follow some other curricula, to be
> determined. Around 5 to 10 people typically show up for office hours.
> I actually expected a little more, maybe we should send out more
> announcements? suggestions? Maybe it's just that people don't get to
> that part of the city if they don't live around there?

I think you should send more announcements, and perhaps people could
be a bit more talkative on the list when they're going to attend these
events. Just a simple "hey I'm heading to <event>, anyone else going?"
would work. Hopefully that's not too much noise for the list to see a
few small announcements like that.

On the other user groups lists I see, people tend to post about an
event and then a few people will follow up to say they're going, then
it sets off a chain reaction and people show up. Sometimes I think the
quiet turns people off. In the sprint I tried to organize about a year
ago, I got good vibes when asking in person, but when I sent the
emails only one person responded in private. I ended up ditching the
idea because I never heard from anyone...then I ended up hearing in
private that people would have just shown up.

We don't really need this with the standard ChiPy meetings since we
have the RSVP system, but I think people tend to be more interested in
going if they know others will be there.

> I found out about OpenHack Wednesdays at FreeGeek
> <http://freegeekchicago.org/calendar>, and I'm going to try to make
> those at least once a month. I haven't been to one yet, but I heard
> someone there teaches python, and has been teaching flask.
>
> 4. Questions
>
> Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
> Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
> don't show up to the office hours. When I started going to the office
> hours, I expected more people to be there due to all the questions on
> the mailing list. Is it because you didn't know about them? because of
> the location? the time?

I don't know anything about them. Well, I could guess what they are
based on the name and what you've said of the event, but I've never
had a proper introduction to PSOne or the office hours setup.

> What kinds of topics would people like to have in a workshop? I would
> like some pandas stuff.
>
> Do we ever want a project night for a chipy meeting, or should chipy
> meetings always be talks? The Boston group has project nights.

Boston does both as far as I know.

Personally, I have more side projects than I know what to do with so I
don't really plan on adding any more, but I like the environment that
sprints/hack nights have, so I'd more than likely attend. However, I'd
probably just use the space to do my work in the company of others and
chime in here and there on what's going on, and bounce some ideas off
of others. Working from home and then doing side work all night gets
kind of boring.

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Nov 28 00:34:44 2012
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:34:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python-heavy job opening
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoPROz+TObG_ELcfa6mfFaT-kpoA0j=Xwvr2H7ecKM=EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAArJE+iEF6+1tqLD9GGr3fAw+jqrkbde8xU25nR0sQ2grDN+iA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjA8BJ0wcrEuzrDXT8cKQ04Z68CkdZU9pqeXQERuyEZiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY2=Tf7aO0QCCO=mWkLfe2DJv0E7H7UTu67o9ip=Wjhw8vhYQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABdKVNjcAOKrpfVn3MMC33SNWwN8n=CF-sz+vkcosvQ+L2AX-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwpyt58-suqVrzMqhNz+t2kHLfeoWQ2P4bsfDG0Y8HgAnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKY89MXrpSVrzy4aUdhKvFQybfX2Kpw0R7w8yw2TXLUfXWi=Gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANTsVHLKNu4QoPUs8gqQSCksEU3cPaf5Twwnt6=L5ZD6D=HeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rYV-MpmLFyca8Xdz9DQD0m4RCpo-Fa1ZZUmcg02hFUzKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMXtMFAF0hwqyZ19f6sBSk4-WYu_L=c3Eve80vmSjSkNUi0QXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<40043919-3579-4B8D-9468-6C923DAED164@gmail.com>
	<CAArJE+hGx74SEgUd8o64bq2bKRFSu=giEBTautXx_xmqyANSFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM1yh5X75zBP56P66eAJ8pW0BmZ=xQb4od3vWw_AD1Kj2yJrvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZS89rOGAz5n21V_CXV_QjSOCi-_p+q7tkg21PVLFZDaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACoHCNQ0H4pwD+QasGbirhhTndi3_qkWX7s5qfeJQy64MjRsoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHCs_rZ7qKqFuv8yo3Sr=fBbRnncme102gPpQ1VRDToWX-6-yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+XWwoPROz+TObG_ELcfa6mfFaT-kpoA0j=Xwvr2H7ecKM=EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSiSTz0Unbwoa_0g-LkmDP7wHyYo2SZdESScjuFO_mTKYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>> Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
>> Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
>> don't show up to the office hours. When I started going to the office
>> hours, I expected more people to be there due to all the questions on
>> the mailing list. Is it because you didn't know about them? because of
>> the location? the time?
>
> I don't know anything about them. Well, I could guess what they are
> based on the name and what you've said of the event, but I've never
> had a proper introduction to PSOne or the office hours setup.

Good point - we need a PS1 Python Office Hours P R Person.
PPOHPRP Ack-Pffft.

It is a bunch of us with laptops all doing Python stuff.  Pretty much
we all do our own thing, but it is completely appropriate and almost
encouraged to interrupt everyone when you have a problem.   We
sacrifice work to maximize helping.  and it is fun.

-- 
Carl K

From maney at two14.net  Thu Nov 29 14:24:36 2012
From: maney at two14.net (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 07:24:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django 1.5 AUTH_USER_MODEL
Message-ID: <20121129132435.GA10627@furrr.two14.net>


I've been chatting with a couple folks who are trying to come to grips
with some of Django 1.5's new features, and between those discussions
and reading the docs I'm wondering if this is going to be a big mess. 
Once simple little thing - this is going to break 3rd party apps (if
you use a custom user model) that haven't been modified to use
settings.AUTH_USER_MODEL instead of the traditional direct reference
that wires in the model from contrib, yes?  Which would be the vast
majority of them at this point, I'd expect.  ;-(

It all just seems rather slipshod to me... but then I have been saying
for quite a while that contrib delanda est.

-- 
We reject kings, presidents, and voting.
We believe in rough consensus
and running code. -- David Clarke


From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 15:45:40 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 08:45:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django 1.5 AUTH_USER_MODEL
In-Reply-To: <20121129132435.GA10627@furrr.two14.net>
References: <20121129132435.GA10627@furrr.two14.net>
Message-ID: <F41FFDD2-6F4B-4CDE-B74A-792179066E95@gmail.com>

It's well worth the hassles to get a real custom user model working in my opinion. There's not many options for the Django team in this regard. Either they make the change and deal with the incompatibilities that come with it's _optional_ use, or keep the same old broken system.

If Django kept the same broken system as policy, it would fade away in a few years.

On Nov 29, 2012, at 7:24 AM, Martin Maney <maney at two14.net> wrote:

> 
> I've been chatting with a couple folks who are trying to come to grips
> with some of Django 1.5's new features, and between those discussions
> and reading the docs I'm wondering if this is going to be a big mess. 
> Once simple little thing - this is going to break 3rd party apps (if
> you use a custom user model) that haven't been modified to use
> settings.AUTH_USER_MODEL instead of the traditional direct reference
> that wires in the model from contrib, yes?  Which would be the vast
> majority of them at this point, I'd expect.  ;-(
> 
> It all just seems rather slipshod to me... but then I have been saying
> for quite a while that contrib delanda est.
> 
> -- 
> We reject kings, presidents, and voting.
> We believe in rough consensus
> and running code. -- David Clarke
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 16:30:40 2012
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:30:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Django 1.5 AUTH_USER_MODEL
In-Reply-To: <F41FFDD2-6F4B-4CDE-B74A-792179066E95@gmail.com>
References: <20121129132435.GA10627@furrr.two14.net>
	<F41FFDD2-6F4B-4CDE-B74A-792179066E95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKwoybjxoOwbuFtShP+Dm+X8DCrue=3QcUROPap97_NsLWWdVg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Jenkins, such is the fate of all
modularity, upgrade or die.  If you don't like it, ==1.4.  Vae
antiquitatibus.
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From dan at streemit.net  Thu Nov 29 19:51:01 2012
From: dan at streemit.net (D Mahoney)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:51:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Question re virtualenv and production environments
Message-ID: <50B7AE95.5080306@streemit.net>

Greetings, all. I've been using Python for admin scripts and the 
occasional cgi for several years now. In that time I've read about 
virtualenv and played with it briefly, but haven't really explored it 
very deeply.

I just started a new contract gig downtown, and I find myself working on 
a RedHat box with python 2.4 installed (2.4.3). Some of the tasks I'm 
working on would be simplified a bit if I could use a more up-to-date 
version, like maybe 2.7. I'm about ready in install virtualenv on this 
box for my development tasks, but my question is this: once I get my 
code working and ready for production use, would it be an especially bad 
idea to leave it in virtualenv? The machine in question is important 
enough that I'm really leery of taking a chance of screwing up Python by 
installing a more current python incorrectly.

Thoughts?

From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 20:02:02 2012
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:02:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Question re virtualenv and production environments
In-Reply-To: <50B7AE95.5080306@streemit.net>
References: <50B7AE95.5080306@streemit.net>
Message-ID: <CAKwoybitYcXb+KJcGi_5ue6gKnF0mvp1ZUTNHTstSDqSqGLzog@mail.gmail.com>

Not only is virtualenv stable for production use, but I highly recommend
it.  In fact, I'm of the opinion that you, generally, one should *always*
use virtualenv.


On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:51 PM, D Mahoney <dan at streemit.net> wrote:

> Greetings, all. I've been using Python for admin scripts and the
> occasional cgi for several years now. In that time I've read about
> virtualenv and played with it briefly, but haven't really explored it very
> deeply.
>
> I just started a new contract gig downtown, and I find myself working on a
> RedHat box with python 2.4 installed (2.4.3). Some of the tasks I'm working
> on would be simplified a bit if I could use a more up-to-date version, like
> maybe 2.7. I'm about ready in install virtualenv on this box for my
> development tasks, but my question is this: once I get my code working and
> ready for production use, would it be an especially bad idea to leave it in
> virtualenv? The machine in question is important enough that I'm really
> leery of taking a chance of screwing up Python by installing a more current
> python incorrectly.
>
> Thoughts?
> ______________________________**_________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/chicago<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 20:06:13 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:06:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Question re virtualenv and production environments
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoybitYcXb+KJcGi_5ue6gKnF0mvp1ZUTNHTstSDqSqGLzog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50B7AE95.5080306@streemit.net>
	<CAKwoybitYcXb+KJcGi_5ue6gKnF0mvp1ZUTNHTstSDqSqGLzog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5B70C16-516E-4632-AA85-33039E856C8C@gmail.com>

For this reason, I believe it's in the standard library in 3.3.

On Nov 29, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not only is virtualenv stable for production use, but I highly recommend it.  In fact, I'm of the opinion that you, generally, one should *always* use virtualenv.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:51 PM, D Mahoney <dan at streemit.net> wrote:
> Greetings, all. I've been using Python for admin scripts and the occasional cgi for several years now. In that time I've read about virtualenv and played with it briefly, but haven't really explored it very deeply.
> 
> I just started a new contract gig downtown, and I find myself working on a RedHat box with python 2.4 installed (2.4.3). Some of the tasks I'm working on would be simplified a bit if I could use a more up-to-date version, like maybe 2.7. I'm about ready in install virtualenv on this box for my development tasks, but my question is this: once I get my code working and ready for production use, would it be an especially bad idea to leave it in virtualenv? The machine in question is important enough that I'm really leery of taking a chance of screwing up Python by installing a more current python incorrectly.
> 
> Thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From thatmattbone at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 20:14:44 2012
From: thatmattbone at gmail.com (Matt Bone)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:14:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Question re virtualenv and production environments
In-Reply-To: <D5B70C16-516E-4632-AA85-33039E856C8C@gmail.com>
References: <50B7AE95.5080306@streemit.net>
	<CAKwoybitYcXb+KJcGi_5ue6gKnF0mvp1ZUTNHTstSDqSqGLzog@mail.gmail.com>
	<D5B70C16-516E-4632-AA85-33039E856C8C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG0VBHteM2kagng_NBPN595fUL=43HpyLc8wgsOg=PkAi_6rgg@mail.gmail.com>

The only thing I'd mention is that it's generally considered a security
risk to have a C-compiler on a production machine, so if you're building
virtual environments that require c extensions, you might think about
building them on a staging box that's identical to your production box and
syncing that environment over to your prod box somehow.  Other than that, I
also highly recommend using virtualenv in production. Works great.

--matt


On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> For this reason, I believe it's in the standard library in 3.3.
>
> On Nov 29, 2012, at 1:02 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not only is virtualenv stable for production use, but I highly recommend
> it.  In fact, I'm of the opinion that you, generally, one should *always*
> use virtualenv.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:51 PM, D Mahoney <dan at streemit.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings, all. I've been using Python for admin scripts and the
>> occasional cgi for several years now. In that time I've read about
>> virtualenv and played with it briefly, but haven't really explored it very
>> deeply.
>>
>> I just started a new contract gig downtown, and I find myself working on
>> a RedHat box with python 2.4 installed (2.4.3). Some of the tasks I'm
>> working on would be simplified a bit if I could use a more up-to-date
>> version, like maybe 2.7. I'm about ready in install virtualenv on this box
>> for my development tasks, but my question is this: once I get my code
>> working and ready for production use, would it be an especially bad idea to
>> leave it in virtualenv? The machine in question is important enough that
>> I'm really leery of taking a chance of screwing up Python by installing a
>> more current python incorrectly.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/chicago<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From zanson at zanson.org  Fri Nov 30 07:17:48 2012
From: zanson at zanson.org (J. D. Jordan)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 00:17:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best
	price & save up to $689
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38u_5ZkLCDC+9Ts20pJec1wCsTeTnNqpomvpzHp1+GR4tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352448318.24660.0.850195@post.oreilly.com>
	<CANKg38u_5ZkLCDC+9Ts20pJec1wCsTeTnNqpomvpzHp1+GR4tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27AE4016-E963-4207-B5B1-F785A1B3D455@zanson.org>

Just noticed my name in here.

Re: Thrift comment.  The low level Cassandra interface is in thrift.  Thrift is awesome for that interface, you can use Cassandra from anywhere that has Thrift.  The thrift interface is also generic, and doesn't fit a python programming paradigm?  So for actually using Cassandra, you want to use a higher level interface designed to look like python code.

-Jeremiah

On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Someone asked me last night about how many good solid jobs in "Big Data" tools (NoSQL, Hadoop, Casandra, MongoDB, Disco, R...) Truth is, I am not not sure how many jobs labeled as "Big Data" and involve Python are on the market right now. I imagine there are plenty of jobs with different titles that use "Big Data" tools; although, they are not in a class of their own. For example, financial analyst, scientific, open gov data, GIS, and social media analytics, are some places you may find Python with Big Data but no jobs marketed as such.
> 
> One thing I do know is that when I attended Strata conference (see below) in the past there were a lot of startups and better established companies (twitter, linkedin) who use Python heavily in conjunction with big data.  Python was mentioned in nearly every corner of the conference.
> 
> Also, here are almost random links that might be good references of mentioning Python in the same breath as Big Data:
>   Hadoop and Python http://www.michael-noll.com/tutorials/writing-an-hadoop-mapreduce-program-in-python/
>   Disco map reduce in Python http://discoproject.org/ Anyone ever use this?
>   Jeremiah Jordan (Morningstar) on Casandra and Python http://www.slideshare.net/jeremiahdjordan/pycon-2012-apache-cassandra Has a lot of links in slides including a note not to use Thrift (comments Garrett?)
> Found this from our friend @JoeGermuska http://www.cio.com.au/article/440163/python_big_data_secret_power_tool/ and references PyData Conference last month in NYC
> So to make a long story shorter, if your looking to use Python with big data on the job, it sounds like there is no shortage of this. However, I am just not sure if the job title will be something like DBA or "Big Data".  Although, I am sure that might also be the case but is probably the exception. Instead, you probably want to look along the lines of Data Scientist as a job title and pay special attention to mention of Python or tools available written in Python in the job listing.
> 
> Cheers, Brian
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: O'Reilly Strata Conference <oreilly at post.oreilly.com>
> Date: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:05 AM
> Subject: Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best price & save up to $689
> To: brianhray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> If you cannot read the information below, view in browser.                             
> 
> Register by Nov. 30 at Guaranteed Best Price + Alumni Discount
> Dear Brian,
> 
> Strata is returning to Santa Clara February 26-28, 2013, and we hope you'll join us again.
> You'll find everything you've come to expect from Strata: great speakers, access to unparalleled expertise, and insight on the future of data.
> At Strata 2013, you will:
> Discover how some of the most successful companies (like Google and Microsoft) use big data?and how to apply it to your organization.
> Get face-to-face with the leading big data experts.
> Explore proven best practices; new analytic approaches; and the most useful tools, tips, and technologies to make big data work for you.
> Dive into case studies from innovative start-ups and established businesses that have implemented successful data-driven strategies.
> Learn how to use the data you already have, and acquire data that will keep you ahead of the competition.
> As a Strata alum, you get an additional 20% off on top of the guaranteed best price--saving you up to $689 if you register by November 30.
> Strata has sold out every year, and we want to see you again. While we're finalizing the full program, take a look at the keynotes and tutorials confirmed so far, save the date, and register soon.
> View Keynotes ?
> We look forward to seeing you at Strata 2013 in February.
> Edd Dumbill and Alistair Croll,
> Strata Conference Chairs
> Save 20% with code ALUMNI
> Best Price ends Nov. 30
> Reserve Your Seat
> What previous Strata attendees said:
> ?One of the most valuable events to advance my career.?
> 
> ?...the latest & greatest of the data community dropping knowledge and taking names.?
> Elite Sponsors
> 
> 
> Strategic Sponsors
> 
> 
> Contributing Sponsor
> 
> Exabyte Sponsors
> 
> 
> 
> Strata Conference
> Making Data Work
> You are receiving this message because you attended a previous Strata Conference or have expressed a strong interest in a Strata related technology. Keep up on all things O'Reilly by signing up for our email newsletters, product alerts, and promotions at elists.oreilly.com. To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), please add oreilly at post.oreilly.com to your address book.
> To unsubscribe from all email announcements from O'Reilly, click here.
> O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (800) 889?8969 or (707) 827?7019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Nov 30 13:20:04 2012
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 06:20:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best
	price & save up to $689
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38u_5ZkLCDC+9Ts20pJec1wCsTeTnNqpomvpzHp1+GR4tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1352448318.24660.0.850195@post.oreilly.com>
	<CANKg38u_5ZkLCDC+9Ts20pJec1wCsTeTnNqpomvpzHp1+GR4tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACAE492A-4249-4BFA-89E2-40AA4E9F89C5@gmail.com>

Ran into this posting last night for a "data scientist"

http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/27296/data-scientist-datascope-analytics?a=wfuJ1BK&utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed

Under requirements it has: "Python, deserves a line of its own"

On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Someone asked me last night about how many good solid jobs in "Big Data" tools (NoSQL, Hadoop, Casandra, MongoDB, Disco, R...) Truth is, I am not not sure how many jobs labeled as "Big Data" and involve Python are on the market right now. I imagine there are plenty of jobs with different titles that use "Big Data" tools; although, they are not in a class of their own. For example, financial analyst, scientific, open gov data, GIS, and social media analytics, are some places you may find Python with Big Data but no jobs marketed as such.
> 
> One thing I do know is that when I attended Strata conference (see below) in the past there were a lot of startups and better established companies (twitter, linkedin) who use Python heavily in conjunction with big data.  Python was mentioned in nearly every corner of the conference.
> 
> Also, here are almost random links that might be good references of mentioning Python in the same breath as Big Data:
>   Hadoop and Python http://www.michael-noll.com/tutorials/writing-an-hadoop-mapreduce-program-in-python/
>   Disco map reduce in Python http://discoproject.org/ Anyone ever use this?
>   Jeremiah Jordan (Morningstar) on Casandra and Python http://www.slideshare.net/jeremiahdjordan/pycon-2012-apache-cassandra Has a lot of links in slides including a note not to use Thrift (comments Garrett?)
> Found this from our friend @JoeGermuska http://www.cio.com.au/article/440163/python_big_data_secret_power_tool/ and references PyData Conference last month in NYC
> So to make a long story shorter, if your looking to use Python with big data on the job, it sounds like there is no shortage of this. However, I am just not sure if the job title will be something like DBA or "Big Data".  Although, I am sure that might also be the case but is probably the exception. Instead, you probably want to look along the lines of Data Scientist as a job title and pay special attention to mention of Python or tools available written in Python in the job listing.
> 
> Cheers, Brian
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: O'Reilly Strata Conference <oreilly at post.oreilly.com>
> Date: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:05 AM
> Subject: Strata 2013 is open. Register by Nov. 30 for best price & save up to $689
> To: brianhray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> If you cannot read the information below, view in browser.                             
> 
> Register by Nov. 30 at Guaranteed Best Price + Alumni Discount
> Dear Brian,
> 
> Strata is returning to Santa Clara February 26-28, 2013, and we hope you'll join us again.
> You'll find everything you've come to expect from Strata: great speakers, access to unparalleled expertise, and insight on the future of data.
> At Strata 2013, you will:
> Discover how some of the most successful companies (like Google and Microsoft) use big data?and how to apply it to your organization.
> Get face-to-face with the leading big data experts.
> Explore proven best practices; new analytic approaches; and the most useful tools, tips, and technologies to make big data work for you.
> Dive into case studies from innovative start-ups and established businesses that have implemented successful data-driven strategies.
> Learn how to use the data you already have, and acquire data that will keep you ahead of the competition.
> As a Strata alum, you get an additional 20% off on top of the guaranteed best price--saving you up to $689 if you register by November 30.
> Strata has sold out every year, and we want to see you again. While we're finalizing the full program, take a look at the keynotes and tutorials confirmed so far, save the date, and register soon.
> View Keynotes ?
> We look forward to seeing you at Strata 2013 in February.
> Edd Dumbill and Alistair Croll,
> Strata Conference Chairs
> Save 20% with code ALUMNI
> Best Price ends Nov. 30
> Reserve Your Seat
> What previous Strata attendees said:
> ?One of the most valuable events to advance my career.?
> 
> ?...the latest & greatest of the data community dropping knowledge and taking names.?
> Elite Sponsors
> 
> 
> Strategic Sponsors
> 
> 
> Contributing Sponsor
> 
> Exabyte Sponsors
> 
> 
> 
> Strata Conference
> Making Data Work
> You are receiving this message because you attended a previous Strata Conference or have expressed a strong interest in a Strata related technology. Keep up on all things O'Reilly by signing up for our email newsletters, product alerts, and promotions at elists.oreilly.com. To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), please add oreilly at post.oreilly.com to your address book.
> To unsubscribe from all email announcements from O'Reilly, click here.
> O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (800) 889?8969 or (707) 827?7019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From shekay at pobox.com  Fri Nov 30 16:23:40 2012
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:23:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] python office hours
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rajfrq7xLoRzVMyio+VOB-J4fsLuog982C8FTpvD_U=bQ@mail.gmail.com>

quoting replies inline in response to my question on why people don't show
up to python office hours at ps:one.

On Nov 27, 2012 4:49 PM, "T Wilson" <wilson.tamarrie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I leave work at 5pm and at school until 10pm you guys are way gone by
then. even if my class is downtown.  I don't think they want to meet on a
Friday or early Sat.  Heck I would take a Sunday if it's possible.
>

Sometimes I'm at ps:one on a weekend. It's not beyond the pale to put
something together. Keep in mind that I don't have any teaching experience
so will be discombobulated until I have more.

Okay, so I'd like to set up something specifically on a weekend,

1. maybe not in December, I'll check.
2. I'd like a person with more experience around (or at least on irc) to
field questions.
3. I'd like a small quorum, maybe at least 3 to 5 people who want to learn
at a similar skill level. if it's not just me helping, then a few more.

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM, David Dumas <daviddumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Why don't more of you show up at ps:one for python office hours?
>> > Sometimes I see people ask questions on the mailing list, but they
>> > don't show up to the office hours.
>>
>> One would need to be a (paying) PS:One member to attend the office
hours, right?
>>

Nope. People can attend for something a member is hosting.
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From rlbax777 at swbell.net  Fri Nov 30 17:43:55 2012
From: rlbax777 at swbell.net (Randall Baxley)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:43:55 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] Randy's State of Python for 11/30/2012
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rajfrq7xLoRzVMyio+VOB-J4fsLuog982C8FTpvD_U=bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1354293684.91055.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Also my machine state.
Dell Inspiron 530S with two large flat screens.
Just completed the U of Toronto with a 100 on the final and 99.4 for the entire course. ?Took a week off and am now diving into the Rice Interactive course though everything will be too late for feedback.
Dell Inspiron 700m have not used in at least two years.
I did pull it out from under some books though so if in January I might want to load Python on it and attend a work day or office hours.
iMac, half egg with a flat screen sticking out of it. ?I do not even know the pw for this machine. ?Mac OS X on Power Mac GS. ?I have a book here on UNIX for OS X Tiger 10.4.At one point I knew something called Zenix and I also programmed some on a Vax though I did not love either one.

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