[Chicago] GitHub & SpamBayes

Adam "Cezar" Jenkins emperorcezar at gmail.com
Tue Feb 5 13:59:00 CET 2013

Just as Dan said. Git is great, Github goes even beyond that. I've
submitted few line fixes to projects without ever leaving my browser.

Here is an example of a pull request

That is much easier than joining a mailing list, making a patch, then
sending it off into the air. This will notify me, @ people, annotate lines
of code, etc, etc.

You seem very resigned to not use Github or anything else. No offense, but
the undertone I get from you is you'll find any reason you can not to
change what you're doing now. I hope you aren't just reaching for reasons
not to.

If that is the case, then that's fine, but I suggest that you put some
research into it. In your case, since you're just maintaining and not
developing so much, Github is the bigger benefit than Git.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Dan Krol <orblivion at gmail.com> wrote:

> Git does help. Github helps more, again specifically because of the
> pull request feature.
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Adam "Cezar" Jenkins
> > <emperorcezar at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I think you're mistaken on how most people find projects and contribute
> to
> >> them. In my opinion most people find a project because of a need.
> >
> > That I most certainly understand.  Those of us who are/were SpamBayes
> > developers worked on it because it scratched an itch we had.  It's
> > still in use on mail.python.org (whether you realize it or not - it
> > provides a bit of spam filtering for most mailing lists like this one,
> > and serves as the only spam filtering for Usenet news messages
> > gatewayed to python-list at python.org).  We all used to use it.
> > Eventually though, our mail service providers wound up in one of three
> > camps:
> >
> > * Some developed good spam filter technology themselves.  Gmail falls
> > into this category.  I presume other major big name mail providers do
> > as well (Yahoo, Hotmail, etc), though I have no direct experience with
> > them.
> >
> > * Others were pressured by the above 800-pound gorillas to not simply
> > forward all the spam along.  Pobox.com, who provides mail forwarding
> > for me, falls into this category.  It was easy to provide leverage.
> > All the big guys had to do was threaten to start refusing mail from
> > those forwarding services if they didn't do what they could at the
> > front-end (while the SMTP connection was still open - blackhole lists,
> > greylisting, etc).
> >
> > * They were driven out of business because they didn't do what groups
> > like pobox.com did.
> >
> > I wound up with effectively no spam reaching my mailbox, so I had
> > nothing for SpamBayes to munch on.  I eventually decided that the
> > combination of Gmail + pobox.com was "good enough".  I suspect most
> > other open source developers fall into the same camp.
> >
> > SpamBayes is now left with a few users who need help and are decidedly
> > not developers.  I doubt that most of the open source developers who
> > could fix the problems SpamBayes has on Windows would need its
> > features either.
> >
> >> If it
> >> doesn't work and they are developers, they will probably want to make it
> >> work. Github makes it much much easier for them to push a button and
> push
> >> those changes back to you.
> >
> > I find it unlikely that a developer for whom SpamBayes scratches no
> > itch is going to fix bugs.
> >
> >> Without something like Github, the barrier to contribute back is higher.
> >
> > But isn't that Git speaking, not necessarily GitHub?  Could I just
> > convert the Subversion repo at SF to Git and get the same benefit?
> >
> >> Your original post talked about the users of your project, so you
> already
> >> have a community. You talk about how they need to use the project, so
> you
> >> already are fullfilling a need. What you don't have is a simple way to
> >> contribute back. You had a user suggest Github as a way to do that.
> >
> > Yes, but the people with the problems are not developers.  The
> > SpamBayes developers no longer need or use the tool.  I'm left with a
> > community of users who can't help themselves (well, except perhaps for
> > this one fellow who didn't say, "move to GitHub and I'll fix your
> > problems", but "move to GitHub and someone else will fix your
> > problems"), and a community of (former) developers who no longer use
> > the tool and have moved on to scratch other itches.
> >
> > It's unclear to me that the investment of my time in moving from
> > Subversion to Git (be it at GitHub, SF, or somewhere else) is going to
> > pay itself back.  It would be different if I was still actively
> > working on SpamBayes myself.  Then I would have no problem moving to
> > Git (or Mercurial, or Bazaar).  With no current developers, it would
> > seem to make little sense to move the code repository on the
> > off-chance that someone will find it and start contributing.
> >
> > Skip
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> _______________________________________________
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