From jp at zavteq.com  Mon Feb  3 15:45:59 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 08:45:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] February python project night! safe the date and sign
 up to help
In-Reply-To: <CAPcQAMK_V8npRhcphW23QXEmD7s38B3R9i+vuVXQV46J3KvTpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHCs_ra1SNYCbFxh+CgpB1xHeSpr6vwmVhTRmAzHoy+kfxDBEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMK_V8npRhcphW23QXEmD7s38B3R9i+vuVXQV46J3KvTpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRRKygF6itOPY+W=t-TA2CFfTAgsUP7VW2dyVVgv1=8JtQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is a great idea and I would love to see this happen monthly. I'm a
friendly enough (if not obnoxiously loud) person, and happy to greet
others, work on projects, or just pick folk's brains about subject matters.

A couple of logistical questions, namely do we want a consistent space? PS1
is nice, but if it isn't right off of public transit (or downtown), it's
harder for some folk to attend. The more convenient it is to get to, the
better off we'll be. Or (sorry Nick, but you need to learn to drive already
;)) if there's really good parking nearby, that helps as well. There's a
lot of available space downtown, somebody's gotta know somebody who can
help provide us a consistent open space to work in.

Even if we rotate around spaces, how many hours do we expect to be there?
Anywhere between 1-6?

Anyways, please sign me up (or I'll go over to meetup and do that there).

Cheers!

JP



On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:

> Sheila, thanks so much for getting this started!
>
> I've wanted something like this, a hacking time just for Python, but I
> haven't gotten the gumption to get out to Pumping Station One for the
> Python Office Hours you hold. I want to help, I'd be delighted to be a
> greeter and to be roaming assistance for anyone who's not sure how to get
> started. I could also use some help myself on a few projects but I'd be
> quite satisfied to spend several hours turning on lightbulbs in other
> people's heads in solving problems using Python.
>
> I would also be happy to stick around afterwards to clean up, or show up
> early to set up, and also to help with everything in between. I would like
> to be involved in organizing events so I can learn how to start them myself
> in the future.
>
> Yay!
>
> Nick Bennett
> nick at goggl.es
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 12:04 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Heads up all!
>>
>> Aeva and I have been talking with Asheesh and a few others about a python
>> project night in February. If you recall, Asheesh mailed chipy proposing
>> that we do this monthly.
>>
>> I've set up meetup with no schedule or location right now, but we have
>> tentative plans to hold this on Feb. 27. When we lock this down, I'll edit
>> the meetup and post to the list.
>>
>> Right now I am talking to graphite developers so that we have a project
>> table for graphite, and other than that we are open for ideas. People
>> aren't required to work on someone else's project. This is also a time
>> where people can gather together to work on their own projects as well.
>>
>> I'd like to recruit some people
>>
>> * To post comments to the meetup letting everyone know what you are
>> interested in working on and what you need help with. If we know in advance
>> we can try to find some resources for you on the topics.
>>
>> * To be a greeter and help with the beginning python table.
>>
>> * To be a greeter and help with the beginning web developer table.
>>
>> * To prepare their open source project for participation in this project
>> night and future ones -- this means I'd like you to take a look at
>> http://opensource-events.com/ for best practices and you can ask for
>> volunteers to help you prepare for future sprints and project nights. If
>> you are already prepared, this is awesome! Show up and recruit new
>> contributors.
>>
>>
>> http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/events/163257702/
>> Here's the current meetup description so that you don't need to click
>> that link.
>>
>>
>> Announcement:
>>
>> Come work on Python projects, get programming help, help others, and hang
>> out.
>>
>> Bring your own project or work on one of the suggested projects below.
>> Everyone is welcome, all skill levels are encouraged.
>>
>> Friendly people will be here to help beginning Python programmers with
>> language basics and practice.
>>
>> Audience: Everyone! All Python experience levels are welcome, and
>> everything is self-paced.
>>
>> When: 6:30pm - 9:30pm
>> Where: ???
>> Food: Pizza will be provided by ???
>>
>> Things to bring: a wireless-enabled laptop and power cord.
>>
>> Need some project ideas? How about:
>>
>> Learning Python
>>
>> * The official Python tutorial
>> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/introduction.html
>>
>> * How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python
>> http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
>>
>> * An introduction to Python through writing games
>> http://inventwithpython.com/chapters/
>>
>> * Learn Python the Hard Way http://learnpythonthehardway.org/
>>
>> Projects
>>
>> * If you contribute to an open source project that uses Python and want
>> to help new contributors, let us know in a comment!
>>
>> * Want to learn a Python web framework? Check out the Django tutorial.
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01/
>>
>> Questions?
>>
>> If you are interested in working on a specific topic, please leave a
>> comment to let us know. Maybe we can find someone in advance who knows the
>> topic!
>>
>>
>> --
>> sheila
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Feb  3 16:26:36 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 09:26:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] February python project night! safe the date and sign
 up to help
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRRKygF6itOPY+W=t-TA2CFfTAgsUP7VW2dyVVgv1=8JtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHCs_ra1SNYCbFxh+CgpB1xHeSpr6vwmVhTRmAzHoy+kfxDBEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMK_V8npRhcphW23QXEmD7s38B3R9i+vuVXQV46J3KvTpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRRKygF6itOPY+W=t-TA2CFfTAgsUP7VW2dyVVgv1=8JtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_raJRPebvwDgELfow8KziRLT3m4TcSgRwpdh7jSo9TQUzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:45 AM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> This is a great idea and I would love to see this happen monthly. I'm a
> friendly enough (if not obnoxiously loud) person, and happy to greet
> others, work on projects, or just pick folk's brains about subject matters.
>
> A couple of logistical questions, namely do we want a consistent space?
> PS1 is nice, but if it isn't right off of public transit (or downtown),
> it's harder for some folk to attend. The more convenient it is to get to,
> the better off we'll be. Or (sorry Nick, but you need to learn to drive
> already ;)) if there's really good parking nearby, that helps as well.
> There's a lot of available space downtown, somebody's gotta know somebody
> who can help provide us a consistent open space to work in.
>

I'd really like to have a consistent space downtown. It would be a lot
easier to get to. I'd like to have the same place every time. The logistics
are easier. If we can find a place that is convenient to public transit,
has nearby parking, and is in a building accessible to people with impaired
mobility, then I'd really like it! Caveat that I don't want this to be an
event that is about recruiter networking. It's for people who want to work
on things.

I am checking with my old job to see if they want to host every month. They
fit the bill well since they are in the Citibank building.



> Even if we rotate around spaces, how many hours do we expect to be there?
> Anywhere between 1-6?
>

I think at least three hours. More if we have more people who will help
keep things going. I'm generally good for 3 hours. Also, it depends on the
space.

-- 
sheila
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From brian at python.org  Mon Feb  3 17:00:25 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 16:00:25 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2014 Call for Proposals, New Website
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1391443227.18126.chicago@python.org>

Hi ChiPy!

PyCon 2014, taking place April 9-17 in Montreal, has just passed 1600 tickets sold, and we're seeing sales ramp up very quickly. Late last week we were announcing the 1500 mark, and with a cap of 2000 tickets, we expect these last four hundred to move quickly. Head to https://us.pycon.org/2014/registration/ to buy yours today!

This year's talk schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/talks/, along with a keynote series including EFF co-founder John Perry Barlow; IPython creator, Fernando Perez; PSF director, Jessica McKellar; PSF chairman, Van Lindberg; and Python's creator, Guido van Rossum. The tutorial schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/tutorials/, and spaces are limited! You'd be hard pressed to find a better value than our tutorials.

We've long thought PyCon to be family friendly, and last year's aYoung Codera tutorials were a hugely successful step towards showing it. The tutorials are back again this year, with registration opening shortly for children 12 and over: https://us.pycon.org/2014/events/letslearnpython/. For kids under 12, we're pleased to be offering childcare! See https://us.pycon.org/2014/childcare/ for details.

The 5K Charity Fun Run is on its third year, with proceeds benefiting the EFF. It's a fun time and supports a good cause. For the 5K and many other events, check out the Events section on https://us.pycon.org/2014/

Make sure your passport is in order, as you need one to cross the border. More details available here: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2014/01/pycon-attendees-from-us-you-need.html

For the latest updates, follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/pycon, and on our blog at http://pycon.blogspot.com/

Hope to see you in Montreal!

Diana Clarke, Chair
diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com

Brian Curtin, Publicity Coordinator
brian at python.org


From brian at python.org  Mon Feb  3 17:05:17 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 16:05:17 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2014 - 400 tickets remain!
Message-ID: <mailman.13.1391443517.18126.chicago@python.org>

Hi ChiPy!

[I apologize for a second email - this got sent with an old and out-of-date subject line.]

PyCon 2014, taking place April 9-17 in Montreal, has just passed 1600 tickets sold, and we're seeing sales ramp up very quickly. Late last week we were announcing the 1500 mark, and with a cap of 2000 tickets, we expect these last four hundred to move quickly. Head to https://us.pycon.org/2014/registration/ to buy yours today!

This year's talk schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/talks/, along with a keynote series including EFF co-founder John Perry Barlow; IPython creator, Fernando Perez; PSF director, Jessica McKellar; PSF chairman, Van Lindberg; and Python's creator, Guido van Rossum. The tutorial schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/tutorials/, and spaces are limited! You'd be hard pressed to find a better value than our tutorials.

We've long thought PyCon to be family friendly, and last year's aYoung Codera tutorials were a hugely successful step towards showing it. The tutorials are back again this year, with registration opening shortly for children 12 and over: https://us.pycon.org/2014/events/letslearnpython/. For kids under 12, we're pleased to be offering childcare! See https://us.pycon.org/2014/childcare/ for details.

The 5K Charity Fun Run is on its third year, with proceeds benefiting the EFF. It's a fun time and supports a good cause. For the 5K and many other events, check out the Events section on https://us.pycon.org/2014/

Make sure your passport is in order, as you need one to cross the border. More details available here: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2014/01/pycon-attendees-from-us-you-need.html

For the latest updates, follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/pycon, and on our blog at http://pycon.blogspot.com/

Hope to see you in Montreal!

Diana Clarke, Chair
diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com

Brian Curtin, Publicity Coordinator
brian at python.org


From brianhray at gmail.com  Mon Feb  3 16:32:24 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 09:32:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy's February Hackathon Choice
Message-ID: <CANKg38tzNOs-Qajx_Csh_SPxs09vczutXyVs+8p1ib7+HBJ4Tg@mail.gmail.com>

We promised another ChiPy sponsored Hackathon and here it is:

When: Friday, February 7, 2014 at 7:00 PM -
Sunday, February 9, 2014 at 7:00 PM (CST)

RSVP: http://lilz.us/h4g

This is *not* a choose your own aventure (project) type of enagement. They
have some specific goals that will be communicated before and during the
event. I really want ChiPy to dominate this. Brad and DevMynd Software are
friends of ChiPy and I really want to support this good effort. Register,
come, and hack in a way to make ChiPy proud!

Details:


The Geeklist #Hack4good <https://geekli.st/hack4good> series run and power
> hackathon events around the world to present problems, form teams and solve
> the problems using each of our individual strengths in technology. We are
> comprised of software engineers and hackers, ui/ux designers, product
> developers and founders, leaders, thinkers and civic minded organizations.
> We give products built at our hackathons perpetual life and help move them
> live on and progress beyond the event. Participants completing the event
> also become immediate members of our Geeklist Corps of Developers<https://geekli.st/corps>.
> "Hack a better world with us."
> DevMynd Software is hosting the #Hack4good event for Chicago and is
> currently seeking:
> Not for profits that want some development help
> Mentors & Judges to share knowledge and support the teams
> Sponsors that want to be associated with the global #Hack4good effort
> Developers & Designers that want to have a fun weekend #Hack[ing]4good
> http://lilz.us/h4g


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From jp at zavteq.com  Mon Feb  3 17:27:09 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:27:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy's February Hackathon Choice
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tzNOs-Qajx_Csh_SPxs09vczutXyVs+8p1ib7+HBJ4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38tzNOs-Qajx_Csh_SPxs09vczutXyVs+8p1ib7+HBJ4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRRYf=1OooMe96mLVRacNKcpzuvxZj_qJMU45xD5us8c=g@mail.gmail.com>

"We promised another ChiPy sponsored Hackathon and here it is:"

Is ChiPy sponsoring part of this?

Your statement is confusing.

JP


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> We promised another ChiPy sponsored Hackathon and here it is:
>
> When: Friday, February 7, 2014 at 7:00 PM -
> Sunday, February 9, 2014 at 7:00 PM (CST)
>
> RSVP: http://lilz.us/h4g
>
> This is *not* a choose your own aventure (project) type of enagement. They
> have some specific goals that will be communicated before and during the
> event. I really want ChiPy to dominate this. Brad and DevMynd Software are
> friends of ChiPy and I really want to support this good effort. Register,
> come, and hack in a way to make ChiPy proud!
>
> Details:
>
>
> The Geeklist #Hack4good <https://geekli.st/hack4good> series run and
>> power hackathon events around the world to present problems, form teams and
>> solve the problems using each of our individual strengths in technology. We
>> are comprised of software engineers and hackers, ui/ux designers, product
>> developers and founders, leaders, thinkers and civic minded organizations.
>> We give products built at our hackathons perpetual life and help move them
>> live on and progress beyond the event. Participants completing the event
>> also become immediate members of our Geeklist Corps of Developers<https://geekli.st/corps>.
>> "Hack a better world with us."
>> DevMynd Software is hosting the #Hack4good event for Chicago and is
>> currently seeking:
>> Not for profits that want some development help
>> Mentors & Judges to share knowledge and support the teams
>> Sponsors that want to be associated with the global #Hack4good effort
>> Developers & Designers that want to have a fun weekend #Hack[ing]4good
>> http://lilz.us/h4g
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From agforsyth at gmail.com  Mon Feb  3 17:37:00 2014
From: agforsyth at gmail.com (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:37:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2014 - 400 tickets remain!
In-Reply-To: <3fHv601yyhz7Lmh@mail.python.org>
References: <3fHv601yyhz7Lmh@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N8wqnLkqvPAzq2qRVSry=33yrW0+ZoXrC3Rf3fXd4JP5A@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have a hotel recommendation between the two? I unfortunately can't
do an AirBnB and I don't remember the city well enough to tell which hotel
will be more convenient for getting around on foot.

They're not that far apart, but at first glance the Hyatt looks better
located.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> Hi ChiPy!
>
> [I apologize for a second email - this got sent with an old and
> out-of-date subject line.]
>
> PyCon 2014, taking place April 9-17 in Montreal, has just passed 1600
> tickets sold, and we're seeing sales ramp up very quickly. Late last week
> we were announcing the 1500 mark, and with a cap of 2000 tickets, we expect
> these last four hundred to move quickly. Head to
> https://us.pycon.org/2014/registration/ to buy yours today!
>
> This year's talk schedule is available at
> https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/talks/, along with a keynote series
> including EFF co-founder John Perry Barlow; IPython creator, Fernando
> Perez; PSF director, Jessica McKellar; PSF chairman, Van Lindberg; and
> Python's creator, Guido van Rossum. The tutorial schedule is available at
> https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/tutorials/, and spaces are limited!
> You'd be hard pressed to find a better value than our tutorials.
>
> We've long thought PyCon to be family friendly, and last year's aYoung
> Codera tutorials were a hugely successful step towards showing it. The
> tutorials are back again this year, with registration opening shortly for
> children 12 and over: https://us.pycon.org/2014/events/letslearnpython/.
> For kids under 12, we're pleased to be offering childcare! See
> https://us.pycon.org/2014/childcare/ for details.
>
> The 5K Charity Fun Run is on its third year, with proceeds benefiting the
> EFF. It's a fun time and supports a good cause. For the 5K and many other
> events, check out the Events section on https://us.pycon.org/2014/
>
> Make sure your passport is in order, as you need one to cross the border.
> More details available here:
> http://pycon.blogspot.com/2014/01/pycon-attendees-from-us-you-need.html
>
> For the latest updates, follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/pycon,
> and on our blog at http://pycon.blogspot.com/
>
> Hope to see you in Montreal!
>
> Diana Clarke, Chair
> diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com
>
> Brian Curtin, Publicity Coordinator
> brian at python.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Mon Feb  3 17:49:28 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:49:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python project night! February 27
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rY0=+aeWMMbLNL9-pNzJTxRErLMndTe8iLtUERVx-suvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

Braintree is hosting our python project night and providing food.

I have added links for two projects that will have developers standing by.
* Graphite
* Dancing nodebots, for this you will need an arduino and I will provide
some more info in the meetup comments from Jason Huggins.

Please RSVP here:

http://www.meetup.com/ChiPyFans/events/163257702/

Come work on Python projects, get programming help, help others, and hang
out.

Bring your own project or work on one of the suggested projects below.
Everyone is welcome, all skill levels are encouraged.

Friendly people will be here to help beginning Python programmers with
language basics and practice.

Audience: Everyone! All Python experience levels are welcome, and
everything is self-paced.

When: 6:30pm - 9:30pm
Where: Braintree
Food: Pizza will be provided by Braintree

Things to bring: a wireless-enabled laptop and power cord.

Need some project ideas? How about:

Learning Python

* The official Python tutorial
http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/introduction.html

* How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python
http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/

* An introduction to Python through writing games
http://inventwithpython.com/chapters/

* Learn Python the Hard Way http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

Projects

* If you contribute to an open source project that uses Python and want to
help new contributors, let us know in a comment!

* Graphite, awesome monitoring.
https://graphite.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview.html

* Node robots, https://vine.co/v/hw5MVg3YZzW  making use of
https://github.com/theycallmeswift/BreakfastSerial and some kits from Jason
Huggins.

* Want to learn a Python web framework? Check out the Django tutorial.
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01/

Questions?

If you are interested in working on a specific topic, please leave a
comment to let us know. Maybe we can find someone in advance who knows the
topic!



-- 
sheila
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Mon Feb  3 17:58:14 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:58:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy's February Hackathon Choice
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRRYf=1OooMe96mLVRacNKcpzuvxZj_qJMU45xD5us8c=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38tzNOs-Qajx_Csh_SPxs09vczutXyVs+8p1ib7+HBJ4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRRYf=1OooMe96mLVRacNKcpzuvxZj_qJMU45xD5us8c=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sP3nLXzn+B47cs5Ym8xd46jBZuS0KwLxPxdG1K8ohtuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, February 3, 2014, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> "We promised another ChiPy sponsored Hackathon and here it is:"
>
> Is ChiPy sponsoring part of this?
>
>
We are selecting the event as our next Hackathon.   Just like the one we
did for Mozilla and Aaron Swartz. Are you going to participate? I'm working
with Brad to help make it happen.

Thanks, Brian


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From ken at stox.org  Mon Feb  3 17:47:48 2014
From: ken at stox.org (Kenneth Stox)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 10:47:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python #1
Message-ID: <1391446068.13693.0.camel@cerebrus>

I never thought I would see this: 

http://blog.codeeval.com/codeevalblog/2014



From adam at adamforsyth.net  Mon Feb  3 18:09:07 2014
From: adam at adamforsyth.net (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 11:09:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python #1
In-Reply-To: <1391446068.13693.0.camel@cerebrus>
References: <1391446068.13693.0.camel@cerebrus>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N-=HueZxf1ZZAAykoE-w1zcYQr150AFpX6reJS7zd46jA@mail.gmail.com>

This is based on coding tests used in interviews processed by one company.
Pretty narrow metric, and I can come up with several reasons why Python
specifically would benefit by it.

It's also the 3rd year in a row it's been 1. Python 2. Java 3. Everything
else.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Kenneth Stox <ken at stox.org> wrote:

> I never thought I would see this:
>
> http://blog.codeeval.com/codeevalblog/2014
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From pete at wearpants.org  Mon Feb  3 19:34:16 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 12:34:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon 2014 - 400 tickets remain!
In-Reply-To: <3fHv6m33Hsz7LpY@mail.python.org>
References: <3fHv6m33Hsz7LpY@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwwz3VHAE4Xv4A0FxoQzDSTWq7pqEziV9RVG1R7imZ0ywA@mail.gmail.com>

 I'm going to be talking about Internet activism:
https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/presentation/214/

Hope to see you!

On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> Hi ChiPy!
>
> [I apologize for a second email - this got sent with an old and out-of-date subject line.]
>
> PyCon 2014, taking place April 9-17 in Montreal, has just passed 1600 tickets sold, and we're seeing sales ramp up very quickly. Late last week we were announcing the 1500 mark, and with a cap of 2000 tickets, we expect these last four hundred to move quickly. Head to https://us.pycon.org/2014/registration/ to buy yours today!
>
> This year's talk schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/talks/, along with a keynote series including EFF co-founder John Perry Barlow; IPython creator, Fernando Perez; PSF director, Jessica McKellar; PSF chairman, Van Lindberg; and Python's creator, Guido van Rossum. The tutorial schedule is available at https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/tutorials/, and spaces are limited! You'd be hard pressed to find a better value than our tutorials.
>
> We've long thought PyCon to be family friendly, and last year's aYoung Codera tutorials were a hugely successful step towards showing it. The tutorials are back again this year, with registration opening shortly for children 12 and over: https://us.pycon.org/2014/events/letslearnpython/. For kids under 12, we're pleased to be offering childcare! See https://us.pycon.org/2014/childcare/ for details.
>
> The 5K Charity Fun Run is on its third year, with proceeds benefiting the EFF. It's a fun time and supports a good cause. For the 5K and many other events, check out the Events section on https://us.pycon.org/2014/
>
> Make sure your passport is in order, as you need one to cross the border. More details available here: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2014/01/pycon-attendees-from-us-you-need.html
>
> For the latest updates, follow us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/pycon, and on our blog at http://pycon.blogspot.com/
>
> Hope to see you in Montreal!
>
> Diana Clarke, Chair
> diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com
>
> Brian Curtin, Publicity Coordinator
> brian at python.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From dnfehrenbach at gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 19:43:37 2014
From: dnfehrenbach at gmail.com (Daniel Fehrenbach)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:43:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
Message-ID: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am working on getting a new Django app up and running on Heroku and I've
run into some trouble. I'm new to Django (having does most of my other work
in Flask) and I'm trying to follow the recommendations in Two Scoop of
Django for organizing the project, with an extra top level directory. When
I do this though it's not clear to me where the Heroku Procfile and the
projects wsgi.py should go so that it's noticed by Heroku and able to
cleanly import the rest of the projects apps.

With my current set up, with the Procfile in the top directory foreman will
load the site but will fail on the first request. It seems like either
heroku/foreman can't find the settings.py file or if it can that it can't
import any other apps from the project. Is this a path issue?

What is the proper set up for this kind of project?

The current organization looks like this. If it's unclear there is gist
version here https://gist.github.com/dnfehren/8809238.

/systeml_project
    /.git
    .gitignore
    Procfile
    /requirements
        base.txt
    fake_requirements.txt
    /systeml
        manage.py
        /forecast
            models.py
            views.py
            urls.py
        /inventory
            models.py
            views.py
            urls.py
        /systeml
            /settings
                base.py
           models.py
           views.py
           settings.py
           urls.py
           wsgi.py

Procfile contents...
web: gunicorn systeml.systeml.wsgi


wsgi.py contents...
import os

os.environ.setdefault("DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE",
"systeml.systeml.settings.base")

from django.core.wsgi import get_wsgi_application
from dj_static import Cling

application = Cling(get_wsgi_application())



Email sucks for trying to ask this kind of question with all the extra
details so if I can provide more information in another way let me know - I
would really appreciate any help that's available.

thanks very much,
Dan
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Feb  4 20:43:14 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 13:43:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSioebrEaYwEhpum7yeNPzmVYOfOFLTAxcQhE5qJouMFLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach
<dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> with an extra top level directory.



Knowing why you did that may help with the solution.


-- 
Carl K
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From dnfehrenbach at gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 20:56:04 2014
From: dnfehrenbach at gmail.com (Daniel Fehrenbach)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 13:56:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSSioebrEaYwEhpum7yeNPzmVYOfOFLTAxcQhE5qJouMFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSSioebrEaYwEhpum7yeNPzmVYOfOFLTAxcQhE5qJouMFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATXiX+8TpnBiQdPcOKvf-HZcWzmoumNYzULAui_-kJTYAMOPQ@mail.gmail.com>

hi Carl,

I don't know if I have a specific reason why I did it other than it was the
recommended structure from what I though was a roughly accepted document of
best practices. If there are reasons (other than this situation) why this
isn't a good idea or if I've missed something in the implementation (very
possible) that would be great to hear also.

I think the canonical example of the structure is here -
https://github.com/twoscoops/django-twoscoops-project


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <dnfehrenbach at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> with an extra top level directory.
>
>
>
> Knowing why you did that may help with the solution.
>
>
> --
> Carl K
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From carl at personnelware.com  Tue Feb  4 21:10:38 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:10:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+8TpnBiQdPcOKvf-HZcWzmoumNYzULAui_-kJTYAMOPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSSioebrEaYwEhpum7yeNPzmVYOfOFLTAxcQhE5qJouMFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAATXiX+8TpnBiQdPcOKvf-HZcWzmoumNYzULAui_-kJTYAMOPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADmzSSjXUsShMUhv5akz4YhCM_TAghaTaW19ALBtkEYPxSPPfg@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I thought you added your own extra level.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi Carl,
>
> I don't know if I have a specific reason why I did it other than it was
> the recommended structure from what I though was a roughly accepted
> document of best practices. If there are reasons (other than this
> situation) why this isn't a good idea or if I've missed something in the
> implementation (very possible) that would be great to hear also.
>
> I think the canonical example of the structure is here -
> https://github.com/twoscoops/django-twoscoops-project
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <
>> dnfehrenbach at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> with an extra top level directory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Knowing why you did that may help with the solution.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Carl K
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb  4 21:11:58 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:11:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+8TpnBiQdPcOKvf-HZcWzmoumNYzULAui_-kJTYAMOPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADmzSSioebrEaYwEhpum7yeNPzmVYOfOFLTAxcQhE5qJouMFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAATXiX+8TpnBiQdPcOKvf-HZcWzmoumNYzULAui_-kJTYAMOPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbCRCLQUGLkP85EGA6O24EZvfnYveibVnSdbv6rtvZx+w@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I will say that is also why I have an extra top-level directory in my
django project. Daniel, you might want to check out
https://github.com/pydanny/cookiecutter-django unless you want django 1.5,
which is what the two scoops repo is on right now, if I remember.

I've had a django app up on heroku when using the extra top-level
directory. I can't help right now though. Hopefully someone else can hop in
to the thread to help.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi Carl,
>
> I don't know if I have a specific reason why I did it other than it was
> the recommended structure from what I though was a roughly accepted
> document of best practices. If there are reasons (other than this
> situation) why this isn't a good idea or if I've missed something in the
> implementation (very possible) that would be great to hear also.
>
> I think the canonical example of the structure is here -
> https://github.com/twoscoops/django-twoscoops-project
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <
>> dnfehrenbach at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> with an extra top level directory.
>>
>>
>>
>> Knowing why you did that may help with the solution.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl K
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb  4 21:16:01 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbfQkLypX4gCY3yDMRrr1cGShDw_+J6+1s-1bQGsz-T9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach
<dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> Email sucks for trying to ask this kind of question with all the extra
> details so if I can provide more information in another way let me know - I
> would really appreciate any help that's available.


irc://irc.freenode.net/chipy  if you are accustomed to irc.

Next wednesday is python office hours, but that is probably longer than you
want to wait.. https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours

-- 
sheila
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From dnfehrenbach at gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 21:30:26 2014
From: dnfehrenbach at gmail.com (Daniel Fehrenbach)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:30:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbfQkLypX4gCY3yDMRrr1cGShDw_+J6+1s-1bQGsz-T9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rbfQkLypX4gCY3yDMRrr1cGShDw_+J6+1s-1bQGsz-T9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATXiXJbqEcLmgntU9Y1bkQBsnpzrkTPpyHW=NXf8g14jHAzNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Sheila for the pointer to the cookiecutter repo, it's probably a
good place to start as I've probably missed something in applying the 2SoD
structure by hand.

My difficulties in this make me think I've missed something obvious or I am
working in non-standard way as I haven't seen a lot of stuff in searches
for people with similar problems, there are other repos and skeletons and
stuff for the Django/Heroku combination but most are pretty out of date or
their code hasn't helped.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:16 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <dnfehrenbach at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Email sucks for trying to ask this kind of question with all the extra
>> details so if I can provide more information in another way let me know - I
>> would really appreciate any help that's available.
>
>
> irc://irc.freenode.net/chipy  if you are accustomed to irc.
>
> Next wednesday is python office hours, but that is probably longer than
> you want to wait.. https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From marlon.s.castillo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  4 23:58:40 2014
From: marlon.s.castillo at gmail.com (Marlon Castillo)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 16:58:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAOFaqfD3ABiFrKyQX4wuMU4GkugNNHBiXUSBFFHbGScwN7OGg@mail.gmail.com>

Do you get any errors when you git push heroku master? Do you see any
errors in your logs when you type heroku logs?

You could also try installing the sentry and new relic add ons to see their
log outputs, in case those could help with troubleshooting.


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach
<dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am working on getting a new Django app up and running on Heroku and I've
> run into some trouble. I'm new to Django (having does most of my other work
> in Flask) and I'm trying to follow the recommendations in Two Scoop of
> Django for organizing the project, with an extra top level directory. When
> I do this though it's not clear to me where the Heroku Procfile and the
> projects wsgi.py should go so that it's noticed by Heroku and able to
> cleanly import the rest of the projects apps.
>
> With my current set up, with the Procfile in the top directory foreman
> will load the site but will fail on the first request. It seems like either
> heroku/foreman can't find the settings.py file or if it can that it can't
> import any other apps from the project. Is this a path issue?
>
> What is the proper set up for this kind of project?
>
> The current organization looks like this. If it's unclear there is gist
> version here https://gist.github.com/dnfehren/8809238.
>
> /systeml_project
>     /.git
>     .gitignore
>     Procfile
>     /requirements
>         base.txt
>     fake_requirements.txt
>     /systeml
>         manage.py
>         /forecast
>             models.py
>             views.py
>             urls.py
>         /inventory
>             models.py
>             views.py
>             urls.py
>         /systeml
>             /settings
>                 base.py
>            models.py
>            views.py
>            settings.py
>            urls.py
>            wsgi.py
>
> Procfile contents...
> web: gunicorn systeml.systeml.wsgi
>
>
> wsgi.py contents...
> import os
>
> os.environ.setdefault("DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE",
> "systeml.systeml.settings.base")
>
> from django.core.wsgi import get_wsgi_application
> from dj_static import Cling
>
> application = Cling(get_wsgi_application())
>
>
>
> Email sucks for trying to ask this kind of question with all the extra
> details so if I can provide more information in another way let me know - I
> would really appreciate any help that's available.
>
> thanks very much,
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 18:49:05 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 11:49:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
Message-ID: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>

I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups and
schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
need it and B) I did not have time.

I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and always
shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the rungs as
our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific instructions for
the first meeting or two... then let you take it from there.

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb  5 19:41:41 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 12:41:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups and
> schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
> groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
> annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
> need it and B) I did not have time.
>
> I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and always
> shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the rungs as
> our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific instructions for
> the first meeting or two... then let you take it from there.
>

I really dislike a lot of things about this email.

While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes against
what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people who use
a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their announcements
with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the "we" in "a group
of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't need it?

I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of news
again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus, what
does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality group?
Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the group
with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a meeting? Is
there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem to be more of
a quantity than a quality?

If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone who
can benefit from them.
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From jbcurtinnews at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 20:09:04 2014
From: jbcurtinnews at gmail.com (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:09:04 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALmWdSjvF2SDLXVv0otteGE5rGmDgdGK6PGP735XccLWPTfA4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Mr Curtin, how would you quantify quality here?


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups and
>> schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
>> groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
>> annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
>> need it and B) I did not have time.
>>
>> I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and always
>> shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the rungs as
>> our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific instructions for
>> the first meeting or two... then let you take it from there.
>>
>
> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>
> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes against
> what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people who use
> a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their announcements
> with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the "we" in "a group
> of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't need it?
>
> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of news
> again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus, what
> does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality group?
> Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the group
> with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a meeting? Is
> there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem to be more of
> a quantity than a quality?
>
> If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone who
> can benefit from them.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
-Joseph Curtin
http://www.jbcurtin.com
<http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
@jbcurtin
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb  5 20:16:13 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:16:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdSjvF2SDLXVv0otteGE5rGmDgdGK6PGP735XccLWPTfA4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjvF2SDLXVv0otteGE5rGmDgdGK6PGP735XccLWPTfA4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rar6wb+_Q0YxfJtbjmFFab5_VWXUYBL4YChraj1UJL9NQ@mail.gmail.com>

That is an interesting question, Joseph. Since Brian is on the PSF board,
maybe he could invite someone from the PSF Outreach & Education committee
to talk to us about best practices in user groups for doing outreach.
There's some crossover with OpenHatch since there is an overlap in PSF O&E
folks and OpenHatch folks. Maybe we could ask them to give a short talk
about this in a google hangout? Or maybe even one of them could fly in?

The PSF O&E group has funded me when running python workshop and has paid
for our meetup organizer dues. They are very friendly. They've given grants
to people to come and teach at workshops before.



Btw, I use my own judgement for cross-posting and have not waited for
permission. I've often cross-posted announcements, no harm done.


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:

> Mr Curtin, how would you quantify quality here?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups
>>> and schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
>>> groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
>>> annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
>>> need it and B) I did not have time.
>>>
>>> I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and
>>> always shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the
>>> rungs as our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific
>>> instructions for the first meeting or two... then let you take it from
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>>
>> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes
>> against what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people
>> who use a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their
>> announcements with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the
>> "we" in "a group of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't
>> need it?
>>
>> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of
>> news again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus,
>> what does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality
>> group? Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the
>> group with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a
>> meeting? Is there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem
>> to be more of a quantity than a quality?
>>
>> If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone who
>> can benefit from them.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Joseph Curtin
> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
> @jbcurtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb  5 20:17:19 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:17:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rar6wb+_Q0YxfJtbjmFFab5_VWXUYBL4YChraj1UJL9NQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjvF2SDLXVv0otteGE5rGmDgdGK6PGP735XccLWPTfA4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rar6wb+_Q0YxfJtbjmFFab5_VWXUYBL4YChraj1UJL9NQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rb0WfC318UdYFRSjtsSeNGndD2Eo1W8Cds7=sScXfcB9g@mail.gmail.com>

To clarify, Brian Curtin, not Brian Ray.


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:16 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> That is an interesting question, Joseph. Since Brian is on the PSF board,
> maybe he could invite someone from the PSF Outreach & Education committee
> to talk to us about best practices in user groups for doing outreach.
> There's some crossover with OpenHatch since there is an overlap in PSF O&E
> folks and OpenHatch folks. Maybe we could ask them to give a short talk
> about this in a google hangout? Or maybe even one of them could fly in?
>
> The PSF O&E group has funded me when running python workshop and has paid
> for our meetup organizer dues. They are very friendly. They've given grants
> to people to come and teach at workshops before.
>
>
>
> Btw, I use my own judgement for cross-posting and have not waited for
> permission. I've often cross-posted announcements, no harm done.
>
>
>  On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Mr Curtin, how would you quantify quality here?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups
>>>> and schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
>>>> groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
>>>> annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
>>>> need it and B) I did not have time.
>>>>
>>>> I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and
>>>> always shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the
>>>> rungs as our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific
>>>> instructions for the first meeting or two... then let you take it from
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>>>
>>> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes
>>> against what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people
>>> who use a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their
>>> announcements with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the
>>> "we" in "a group of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't
>>> need it?
>>>
>>> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of
>>> news again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus,
>>> what does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality
>>> group? Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the
>>> group with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a
>>> meeting? Is there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem
>>> to be more of a quantity than a quality?
>>>
>>> If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone
>>> who can benefit from them.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Joseph Curtin
>> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
>> @jbcurtin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> sheila
>



-- 
sheila
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From adrian at holovaty.com  Wed Feb  5 20:21:55 2014
From: adrian at holovaty.com (Adrian Holovaty)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:21:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiXJbqEcLmgntU9Y1bkQBsnpzrkTPpyHW=NXf8g14jHAzNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rbfQkLypX4gCY3yDMRrr1cGShDw_+J6+1s-1bQGsz-T9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAATXiXJbqEcLmgntU9Y1bkQBsnpzrkTPpyHW=NXf8g14jHAzNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABm4ZCT5R7xRjDmoijFe-zesfDAp2KOqtHdX05s=gnykSZRbXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach <dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> My difficulties in this make me think I've missed something obvious or I
> am working in non-standard way as I haven't seen a lot of stuff in searches
> for people with similar problems, there are other repos and skeletons and
> stuff for the Django/Heroku combination but most are pretty out of date or
> their code hasn't helped.
>

Hey, I'm one of the people who made Django and I've had issues with Heroku
every time I've deployed a Django app to it (four different sites over the
last few years). Their Django-detection script seems to be super prickly.
Of the four apps I've deployed to Heroku, not a single one has been
successfully detected as Django. Python, yes, but not Django.

This likely isn't much help, but for what it's worth I wrote a blog post
ranting about it (including reasons why I left Heroku):
http://www.holovaty.com/writing/aws-notes/

Adrian
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 20:49:35 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 13:49:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

>
>
> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>
>
Please take a second look at our mission. Constructive criticism is
accepted; however, how many outside observers (those who do not attend
meetings regularly) should dictate how this group operates.


> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes against
> what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people who use
> a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their announcements
> with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the "we" in "a group
> of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't need it?
>

We did not need it because we already had a community outreach into areas
like Universities because we would tell them about meeting. We would have
department heads in CS groups mention the user groups and students would
attend. They do not attend as often now as they once did. This is only one
example of something we would like to have the Community manager fix.

The other reason we did not need it is we started to see someone was doing
it already for us. Our outreach needs improvement. We have a loyal core;
however, there are several times you will meet someone using Python in
someone interesting areas in Chicago who had no clue ChiPy even exists.



>
> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of news
> again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus, what
> does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality group?
> Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the group
> with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a meeting? Is
> there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem to be more of
> a quantity than a quality?
>

We do not agree in filling chairs with people just for the sake of it. We
still are waiting for the day someone brings a snake to our Python Meetup.

We like being a bit of an insider group. More than half of the attendees to
our meeting are there without knowing any Python, then we run into a chance
of becoming too novice to be interesting to advanced users.  In turn, if we
don't bring in new users, we become so advanced you need a PhD in Computer
Science just to follow the presentations or discussions. We need to remain
diverse.


>
> If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone who
> can benefit from them.
>

We are not simply talking about sharing announcements. Of course, you all
are more than welcome to do this. More, we want to make sure we are
reaching out where appropriate and when appropriate in a manner that is
productive. It should also help educate us on stuff like: who is using
Python in Chicago, why some people don't come, and where we should go next.

Hope this helps, still looking for a volunteer :)


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb  5 21:28:51 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:28:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZkcddrkDoOWJnjQrpcH2NMBOXPuZmamG2+q2Rv_a9njw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Please take a second look at our mission. Constructive criticism is
> accepted; however, how many outside observers (those who do not attend
> meetings regularly) should dictate how this group operates.


I've interacted with people in the past who do not bother to go to chipy
for various reasons (lack of good organization, lack of diversity). You
will not learn why people vote with their feet if you minimalize feedback
in this manner. If you only engage with people who attend chipy regularly,
you have a self selection problem in your sample.


-- 
sheila
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 21:45:02 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:45:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python traffic analysis idea
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+ahv8+wvmAotSHo0gpo8p4XTx9UzmiRFvMq0LeeyNv3mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANHirSUWNO6yXgDFESS2kGv5Aw24btfuof4XCWZfqCWne+v9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSWhRqUmsTDFxxbeN0YFe405vAazqjPZ4pVeoy3sohrn_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bRUF06mWdhGsADh+wg0dPj7cHEHm3Ci4BypLLbuBMB-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSXOOhVXa-9mQW5Q+AigfXWtN34kFL1f+LR=MJPQo9kWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVapAuBPxAZejUTsxDKQ7ZG8Qbu5xFgyRkNy=zRZcbuTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMKg6+T216AtzHn8jAvS-RWtWqY5+3sKbvB0kgkBS+piXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVHaC+3g18Hz1s-NB+vq7KqboCY6gz86nWjMejmjp-0vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKY2=Tc6+TAOmxPcJyPpPTGpQ=khptR=fjUaNWOeOxSXaUic8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMKr-im4htQ1ONK_oXphjbnZZ5hZoqreL4pPdJd39XDCuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMK3Ti01tAkq1gd=ccOkc_Gvr2MRW8zJhJy3FXXSW31=_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZKXEjge+SveBrr=42hU4=eH7bfcdz_8H8HjkYTDgx_bw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSUe1b=dOvc9Of2Ji=Z-XVZbNutvbjYd3Z0Gfe4UPqt=Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAADLA6h4Fhn7OPtO8WQBQVQ+J_bGvv5rCd3KNtLD-FFyoWy7Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVDiogPzEcJZW9a3kfUf3cJZ_DG3m9CFiEPQx2QsA6Zfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+ahv8+wvmAotSHo0gpo8p4XTx9UzmiRFvMq0LeeyNv3mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+aX0-WFqUAoczqXMtGb_Tnim=o40rwaadXs6Q7RSjr2ig@mail.gmail.com>

so, reviving an old thread here, but I just ran across this repo today.
havent used it at all, so you know, caveat emptor and all that, but maybe
it could also help out in a way.

https://github.com/econchick/tissue


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>wrote:

> you might could just push the logfiles into pandas, wouldn't even need to
> write a script to compare them, just make each file a data frame or set of
> data frames and then play with it from there.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Adrian Buford <
> technicallydebatable at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Seems like Scapy will give me the output I need using sniff along with
>> some other vars.  Also Airoscapy-by looks to provide some help. Pretty much
>> the next step is a script for log comparison which shouldn't be hard. Gonna
>> draw up on whiteboard once home. Thanks again all. I will also check out
>> Kibana Chris. Not too familiar.
>>  On Jan 28, 2014 3:52 PM, "Chris Sinchok" <chris at sinchok.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Something like Kibana might be really useful for this:
>>> http://www.elasticsearch.org/overview/kibana/
>>>
>>> Kibana is a simple front end that's powered by elasticsearch, and it's
>>> quite easy to get data into elasticsearch from Python--or from logstash,
>>> etc. Here's a demo, to show a few possible uses:
>>> http://demo.kibana.org/#/dashboard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Adrian Buford <
>>> technicallydebatable at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have no way of making the logs is main concern.
>>>> On Jan 28, 2014 3:14 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> For the logging component, there's already the logging module in the
>>>>>> Python standard library. For an idea of how to use it, try Victor
>>>>>> Lin's guide on good logging practice in Python<http://victorlin.me/posts/2012/08/26/good-logging-practice-in-python>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering what he wants to log and what it will be used for. If
>>>>> the intent is to analyze data to get information about average times, then
>>>>> he can use logs for that, then later scrape them to get the data, but he
>>>>> could handle that in other ways as well, like sending events to graphite.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> sheila
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb  5 21:53:20 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 14:53:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>>
>
> Please take a second look at our mission. Constructive criticism is accepted; however, how many outside observers (those who do not attend meetings regularly) should dictate how this group operates.

Is there an explicit mission statement page somewhere? I re-read the
chunk of text at the top of http://www.chipy.org/ which says things
like "focused on Python" and "open to all levels", and the
http://www.chipy.org/about/ page reiterates the same things, and says,
"open to all of all proficiency and experience levels."

>>
>> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes against what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people who use a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their announcements with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the "we" in "a group of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't need it?
>
>
> We did not need it because we already had a community outreach into areas like Universities because we would tell them about meeting. We would have department heads in CS groups mention the user groups and students would attend. They do not attend as often now as they once did. This is only one example of something we would like to have the Community manager fix.
>
> The other reason we did not need it is we started to see someone was doing it already for us. Our outreach needs improvement. We have a loyal core; however, there are several times you will meet someone using Python in someone interesting areas in Chicago who had no clue ChiPy even exists.
>
>
>>
>>
>> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of news again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus, what does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality group? Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the group with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a meeting? Is there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem to be more of a quantity than a quality?
>
>
> We do not agree in filling chairs with people just for the sake of it.

People want to learn so why not let them sit in a chair? Is there
something special about this group that you should have to be more
than just a seat filler in order to come?

FWIW, I've come to plenty of meetings just for the sake of it. I had
nothing else going on, I was completely uninterested in the topics of
the night, and I figured "eh, I guess I could go to ChiPy." Should I
have stayed home?

> We still are waiting for the day someone brings a snake to our Python Meetup.

A snake enthusiast once showed up to a meetup either in Ireland or
Italy if I remember correctly.

> We like being a bit of an insider group.

Who is "we"? I certainly don't like this. It's very "old boys
club"-ish, something I haven't seen from any other user group.

> More than half of the attendees to our meeting are there without knowing any Python, then we run into a chance of becoming too novice to be interesting to advanced users.  In turn, if we don't bring in new users, we become so advanced you need a PhD in Computer Science just to follow the presentations or discussions. We need to remain diverse.

So we're going to remain diverse by being an insider group? That
doesn't make much sense to me.

PyCon has to solve this same issue each year, of making sure it's a
big meetup that everyone can attend and get something out of. The only
hard limit is that we can't seat more than about 2,000 people before
it becomes a fire hazard and the conference center fines us...but
other than that, if you want to go, you can go, and you can learn from
it. There's a balance of beginner/intermediate/advanced topics, and we
steer that from the stage, not from the audience or who we email about
it. It's one of those "if you build it, they will come" type things.

I've long thought ChiPy has had an organizational problem, but *most
user groups do as well* -- this isn't intended to be a knock on Brian
or anyone else involved. I'm one of the PyCon organizers and we have
plenty of problems as well. It's a largely thankless volunteer task
taken on by one or a few people, but as someone who follows every
possible user group mailing list, Google Group, and Meetup group that
is in some way related to Python, they all need more input from more
people, and they could probably use more hours in the day as well.

If we need to remain diverse, one of the best ways I've seen to build
that is to reach out to more speakers. Without speakers, you don't
have attendees. This is something not only a Community Leader can do,
it's something every single person on this list can do. Are you using
Python? Yes - you can speak at ChiPy. Is your friend using Python? Yes
- they can speak at ChiPy. Did you learn Python yesterday? You're
probably excited about learning something new, and I'll be damned if
you don't have something cool to share with us - you can speak at
ChiPy. Right now this list has probably 200 talks lined up and we just
don't know it.

If this is going to move forward, I think it really has to move
forward more openly. For a monthly group, what does it matter if its
heavy on beginners for a while? If that actually matters to someone,
it'll eventually balance out in a few months when some of them become
intermediates. Isn't this what people are showing up for in the first
place? To learn and share?

What does the mission statement say about that?

From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 22:07:24 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:07:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> What does the mission statement say about that?
>

I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And you
do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)

On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community
outreach leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not
think there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.

If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
forgiveness later...

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From technicallydebatable at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 22:08:48 2014
From: technicallydebatable at gmail.com (Adrian Buford)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:08:48 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] Python traffic analysis idea
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+aX0-WFqUAoczqXMtGb_Tnim=o40rwaadXs6Q7RSjr2ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANHirSUWNO6yXgDFESS2kGv5Aw24btfuof4XCWZfqCWne+v9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSWhRqUmsTDFxxbeN0YFe405vAazqjPZ4pVeoy3sohrn_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bRUF06mWdhGsADh+wg0dPj7cHEHm3Ci4BypLLbuBMB-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSXOOhVXa-9mQW5Q+AigfXWtN34kFL1f+LR=MJPQo9kWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVapAuBPxAZejUTsxDKQ7ZG8Qbu5xFgyRkNy=zRZcbuTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMKg6+T216AtzHn8jAvS-RWtWqY5+3sKbvB0kgkBS+piXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVHaC+3g18Hz1s-NB+vq7KqboCY6gz86nWjMejmjp-0vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKY2=Tc6+TAOmxPcJyPpPTGpQ=khptR=fjUaNWOeOxSXaUic8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMKr-im4htQ1ONK_oXphjbnZZ5hZoqreL4pPdJd39XDCuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMK3Ti01tAkq1gd=ccOkc_Gvr2MRW8zJhJy3FXXSW31=_Q@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CANHirSUe1b=dOvc9Of2Ji=Z-XVZbNutvbjYd3Z0Gfe4UPqt=Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAADLA6h4Fhn7OPtO8WQBQVQ+J_bGvv5rCd3KNtLD-FFyoWy7Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANHirSVDiogPzEcJZW9a3kfUf3cJZ_DG3m9CFiEPQx2QsA6Zfg@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CANHirSXs7gKLz3wiZwLhA_jG38JcEPn8-fv3v9hb-h8wW07yvg@mail.gmail.com>

Ill check out for sure. Appreciated.
On Feb 5, 2014 2:45 PM, "Daniel Peters" <danieltpeters at gmail.com> wrote:

> so, reviving an old thread here, but I just ran across this repo today.
> havent used it at all, so you know, caveat emptor and all that, but maybe
> it could also help out in a way.
>
> https://github.com/econchick/tissue
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> you might could just push the logfiles into pandas, wouldn't even need to
>> write a script to compare them, just make each file a data frame or set of
>> data frames and then play with it from there.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Adrian Buford <
>> technicallydebatable at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Seems like Scapy will give me the output I need using sniff along with
>>> some other vars.  Also Airoscapy-by looks to provide some help. Pretty much
>>> the next step is a script for log comparison which shouldn't be hard. Gonna
>>> draw up on whiteboard once home. Thanks again all. I will also check out
>>> Kibana Chris. Not too familiar.
>>>  On Jan 28, 2014 3:52 PM, "Chris Sinchok" <chris at sinchok.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something like Kibana might be really useful for this:
>>>> http://www.elasticsearch.org/overview/kibana/
>>>>
>>>> Kibana is a simple front end that's powered by elasticsearch, and it's
>>>> quite easy to get data into elasticsearch from Python--or from logstash,
>>>> etc. Here's a demo, to show a few possible uses:
>>>> http://demo.kibana.org/#/dashboard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Adrian Buford <
>>>> technicallydebatable at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have no way of making the logs is main concern.
>>>>> On Jan 28, 2014 3:14 PM, "sheila miguez" <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the logging component, there's already the logging module in the
>>>>>>> Python standard library. For an idea of how to use it, try Victor
>>>>>>> Lin's guide on good logging practice in Python<http://victorlin.me/posts/2012/08/26/good-logging-practice-in-python>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm wondering what he wants to log and what it will be used for. If
>>>>>> the intent is to analyze data to get information about average times, then
>>>>>> he can use logs for that, then later scrape them to get the data, but he
>>>>>> could handle that in other ways as well, like sending events to graphite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> sheila
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 22:41:37 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:41:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>

I think what I'm hearing is:

Brian R.:

   - I dont' think we need to expend effort in xyz chanel;
   - I think that's already handled by other paths, and I only have so much
   time;
   - BTW - can I get a volunteer so we do more outreach?


Brian C.:

   - I heard you don't want to outreach to {{ some_group }} and I'm upset
   about that.
   - We need to be "open", not a "good-ol' boys" network!


It's not quite that crisp, but has a definite, strong element of that.




On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> What does the mission statement say about that?
>>
>
> I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And you
> do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
>
> On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
> offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
> logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community
> outreach leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not
> think there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.
>
> If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
> forgiveness later...
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jp at zavteq.com  Wed Feb  5 23:00:18 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:00:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] DARPA projects use Python
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRSRys6XJHCNS76tUxTcoi0uLebHavjSQ5WVNrv7gSW9Bw@mail.gmail.com>

Saw this article and wanted to share that a log of gummit funded projects
are using Python. Maybe we could look at one of these during the end of
February hack night?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/4/5377492/darpa-publishes-all-its-open-source-code-in-one-place-open-catalog

JP

-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From jordanb at hafd.org  Wed Feb  5 22:58:22 2014
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 15:58:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>

Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
been said.


On 02/05/2014 03:41 PM, Yarko Tymciurak wrote:
> I think what I'm hearing is:
> 
> Brian R.: 
> 
>   * I dont' think we need to expend effort in xyz chanel;
>   * I think that's already handled by other paths, and I only have so
>     much time;
>   * BTW - can I get a volunteer so we do more outreach?
> 
> 
> Brian C.:
> 
>   * I heard you don't want to outreach to {{ some_group }} and I'm upset
>     about that.
>   * We need to be "open", not a "good-ol' boys" network!
> 
> 
> It's not quite that crisp, but has a definite, strong element of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com
> <mailto:brianhray at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>         What does the mission statement say about that?
> 
> 
>     I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times.
>     And you do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
> 
>     On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have
>     one offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a
>     temporary logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our
>     community outreach leader and add value to the group, please speak
>     up. If you do not think there needs to be such a person  ... don't
>     volunteer.  
> 
>     If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
>     forgiveness later...
> 
>     -- 
>     Brian Ray 
>     @brianray
>     (773) 669-7717 <tel:%28773%29%20669-7717>
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From nick at goggl.es  Wed Feb  5 23:12:33 2014
From: nick at goggl.es (Nick Bennett)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:12:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAMKSkJPAomcgJAZ5-JaH8Cu4Rf1YxT+XDXPYXy_qA88u0Q@mail.gmail.com>

The way I approach ChiPy is that I don't expect anyone else to drum up
interest for me, I just do my part by telling everyone I meet how great
ChiPy is and why they should come if they're at all interested in Python.
I'm not asking for permission to do that publicity. When I'm at the Open
Gov Hack Night nearly every Tuesday night, I tell every potential
Pythonista there about ChiPy. So Brian Ray and Brian Curtin and Sheila
Miguez, along with everyone else including you (yes, you!) can do it their
own way too and don't need to ask each other permission to do so.

I say, promote wildly and redundantly. Or don't.

Nick Bennett
224-392-2326


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think what I'm hearing is:
>
> Brian R.:
>
>    - I dont' think we need to expend effort in xyz chanel;
>    - I think that's already handled by other paths, and I only have so
>    much time;
>    - BTW - can I get a volunteer so we do more outreach?
>
>
> Brian C.:
>
>    - I heard you don't want to outreach to {{ some_group }} and I'm upset
>    about that.
>    - We need to be "open", not a "good-ol' boys" network!
>
>
> It's not quite that crisp, but has a definite, strong element of that.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> What does the mission statement say about that?
>>>
>>
>> I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And
>> you do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
>>
>> On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
>> offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
>> logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community
>> outreach leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not
>> think there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.
>>
>> If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
>> forgiveness later...
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb  5 23:40:57 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:40:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
> been said.

Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
points or topics?

From sam.lahti at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 00:01:16 2014
From: sam.lahti at gmail.com (Samuel Lahti)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>

I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
> > been said.
>
> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
> points or topics?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From nick at goggl.es  Thu Feb  6 00:41:54 2014
From: nick at goggl.es (Nick Bennett)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:41:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"

Nick Bennett
224-392-2326


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
>> > been said.
>>
>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>> points or topics?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From nick at goggl.es  Thu Feb  6 00:43:44 2014
From: nick at goggl.es (Nick Bennett)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:43:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>

I just wanted to add on that I think a lively discussion of many opposing
viewpoints is beneficial, I'm not against expressing negativity.
"negativity" is relative, too. I just like being cheeky.

Nick Bennett
224-392-2326


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:

> Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"
>
> Nick Bennett
> 224-392-2326
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
>>> > been said.
>>>
>>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>>> points or topics?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
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From geoffbrown at comcast.net  Thu Feb  6 00:47:20 2014
From: geoffbrown at comcast.net (Geoff Brown)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:47:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A198B0317514039905CF124644DC299@GeoffBPC>

Brian, I believe that Jordan forgot the sarcasm tag. ;)

I think Jordan is responding to the tenor of this
discussion in that it is more confrontational than
our most of the ones we are used to see on Chipy.

Geoff Brown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org>
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help


> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>> Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that has
>> been said.
> 
> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
> points or topics?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From jp at zavteq.com  Thu Feb  6 00:51:43 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 17:51:43 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRQCMX_Xiq=p=2bpbPsebaGX0EdAtWECpGyHj0CN_jD_cw@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for cheeky, and I like the other bumper sticker: "DOWN WITH GRAVITY!"

And while Jordan may (or may not) chime back in with another witty
response, this is a nice lively discussion :)

As for the topic of this discussion, my $.02 is this: I run other user
groups as well, have no problem cross-polinating the groups I really like
(such as ChiPy or Big Data or Data Viz or Chicago Freelancers or
put-your-fav-meetup-here), and often times find myself advertising my group
to others as well as advertising other groups to my group.

As a developer, I want to learn, meet people, network, find work, work on
the next big/small thing, and have fun.

If there needs to be a discussion on how we can spread the word of our
group's awesomeness, then let's discuss. If there's to be people arguing
about Python core pandas particulars, let's discuss.

However it's important that people know we rock, there's conversations
being had, we not be condescending, and that you (yes, you) can participate.

</rant>
</sarcasm>
</email>


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:

> I just wanted to add on that I think a lively discussion of many opposing
> viewpoints is beneficial, I'm not against expressing negativity.
> "negativity" is relative, too. I just like being cheeky.
>
> Nick Bennett
> 224-392-2326
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>
>> Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"
>>
>> Nick Bennett
>> 224-392-2326
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>>>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that
>>>> has
>>>> > been said.
>>>>
>>>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>>>> points or topics?
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 01:52:29 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:52:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PK_g0g=H-LznQikscso1WAR163wMvj-xqkfA3+Sc4wxRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:

> I just wanted to add on that I think a lively discussion of many opposing
> viewpoints is beneficial, I'm not against expressing negativity.
> "negativity" is relative, too. I just like being cheeky.
>

Discussion of benefit (beyond venting) requires actually hearing and
getting each other, checking for understanding, etc.   i.e. work.
So - I'm with you, as long as it's in a context of "hearing" (and I'm as
guilty as anyone of soapboxes, missing points, etc. - something about
*mumble*, *mumble*, human...).

Constructive negativism is ... constructive.
Challenging thinking is too.

Arguing, w/o intellectual engagement is ... well...  at it's best, comic
relief; at it's worst - politics!
http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

:-)




>
>
> Nick Bennett
> 224-392-2326
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>
>> Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"
>>
>> Nick Bennett
>> 224-392-2326
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>>>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that
>>>> has
>>>> > been said.
>>>>
>>>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>>>> points or topics?
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 02:04:21 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:04:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRQCMX_Xiq=p=2bpbPsebaGX0EdAtWECpGyHj0CN_jD_cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRQCMX_Xiq=p=2bpbPsebaGX0EdAtWECpGyHj0CN_jD_cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PLtZ6yvQ-hjLa_kkc43=zLHrk4SrN0TbQjSQMj5-Y9KOQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:51 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> +1 for cheeky, and I like the other bumper sticker: "DOWN WITH GRAVITY!"
>
> And while Jordan may (or may not) chime back in with another witty
> response, this is a nice lively discussion :)
>
> As for the topic of this discussion, my $.02 is this: I run other user
> groups as well, have no problem cross-polinating the groups I really like
> (such as ChiPy or Big Data or Data Viz or Chicago Freelancers or
> put-your-fav-meetup-here), and often times find myself advertising my group
> to others as well as advertising other groups to my group.
>
> As a developer, I want to learn, meet people, network, find work, work on
> the next big/small thing, and have fun.
>
> If there needs to be a discussion on how we can spread the word of our
> group's awesomeness, then let's discuss. If there's to be people arguing
> about Python core pandas particulars, let's discuss.
>
> However it's important that people know we rock, there's conversations
> being had, we not be condescending, and that you (yes, you) can participate.
>

/me wipes tears from eyes;

aw, JP - that was absolutely be-u-tiful!
Love your fellow geek!
What a concept!
neo-hippies - open-sourcers and community builders, we be!

/me wipes more tears...

(actually pretty good, though, JP! :-))


>
> </rant>
> </sarcasm>
> </email>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>
>> I just wanted to add on that I think a lively discussion of many opposing
>> viewpoints is beneficial, I'm not against expressing negativity.
>> "negativity" is relative, too. I just like being cheeky.
>>
>> Nick Bennett
>> 224-392-2326
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>>
>>> Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"
>>>
>>> Nick Bennett
>>> 224-392-2326
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that
>>>>> has
>>>>> > been said.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>>>>> points or topics?
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 02:58:49 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 19:58:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PLtZ6yvQ-hjLa_kkc43=zLHrk4SrN0TbQjSQMj5-Y9KOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKGP4ps56dt_866kW7zQwpWo5dzxE6FVHH8fbSgS+m2rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52F2B3FE.6030006@hafd.org>
 <CAD+XWwptrfZvsp=qUJkCvquHqq4khtTKYxNuH8_Q6ePe9tsvZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07t4d3KCC7X3JTfDngcmv9YjXgrpLVcWFFp5JEBB4PeDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLvMQDGL+uJZ4wZAkZywgHXM9tgu94Adg0WU_qZJeiCJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLTVusSWkmLYzHn9JfznOv_aSRUuhrRP1fmpVRBvovVvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRQCMX_Xiq=p=2bpbPsebaGX0EdAtWECpGyHj0CN_jD_cw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PLtZ6yvQ-hjLa_kkc43=zLHrk4SrN0TbQjSQMj5-Y9KOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PKaRTQt=hKuQg4LFabaS93=-SyBYfxOGrg+KbPAK7VyBA@mail.gmail.com>

... but despite all this cheekiness, and whatnot  (and grateful I am we
disbursed the 'argument clinic';  there is not try, just do!)...

... despite it all, Brian R. has a pleading for "HAAALP!" left hanging out
there ...
... so, lets get back to that...
... I'm sure whomever takes on a role will have freedom degrees of some
sort...
... an' lotz o' citizen voluntears in the backgrnd...

Step right up...

http://youtu.be/Rdqh0GsXMII


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:51 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 for cheeky, and I like the other bumper sticker: "DOWN WITH GRAVITY!"
>>
>> And while Jordan may (or may not) chime back in with another witty
>> response, this is a nice lively discussion :)
>>
>> As for the topic of this discussion, my $.02 is this: I run other user
>> groups as well, have no problem cross-polinating the groups I really like
>> (such as ChiPy or Big Data or Data Viz or Chicago Freelancers or
>> put-your-fav-meetup-here), and often times find myself advertising my group
>> to others as well as advertising other groups to my group.
>>
>> As a developer, I want to learn, meet people, network, find work, work on
>> the next big/small thing, and have fun.
>>
>> If there needs to be a discussion on how we can spread the word of our
>> group's awesomeness, then let's discuss. If there's to be people arguing
>> about Python core pandas particulars, let's discuss.
>>
>> However it's important that people know we rock, there's conversations
>> being had, we not be condescending, and that you (yes, you) can participate.
>>
>
> /me wipes tears from eyes;
>
> aw, JP - that was absolutely be-u-tiful!
> Love your fellow geek!
> What a concept!
> neo-hippies - open-sourcers and community builders, we be!
>
> /me wipes more tears...
>
> (actually pretty good, though, JP! :-))
>
>
>>
>> </rant>
>> </sarcasm>
>> </email>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>>
>>> I just wanted to add on that I think a lively discussion of many
>>> opposing viewpoints is beneficial, I'm not against expressing negativity.
>>> "negativity" is relative, too. I just like being cheeky.
>>>
>>> Nick Bennett
>>> 224-392-2326
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Nick Bennett <nick at goggl.es> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like the bumper sticker on my car: "DOWN WITH NEGATIVITY!"
>>>>
>>>> Nick Bennett
>>>> 224-392-2326
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think Jordan was trying to be cheeky if I read that correctly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > Allow me to interject that I strongly disagree with everything that
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> > been said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you mind expanding on this? What are your thoughts on any of the
>>>>>> points or topics?
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JP Bader
>> Principal
>> Zavteq, Inc.
>> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
>> 608.692.2468
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
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From brian at python.org  Thu Feb  6 03:15:40 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 20:15:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwrcbc23TPnOD_BOkhT4ahKXD1E1EBeWos1fjA5RH7v==w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What does the mission statement say about that?
>
>
> I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And you
> do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
>
> On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
> offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
> logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community outreach
> leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not think
> there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.
>
> If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
> forgiveness later...

How do you intend to pick this leader? So far there's one unnamed
person. Let's say two other people put their names in the hat. What's
the process?

From sam.lahti at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 04:32:28 2014
From: sam.lahti at gmail.com (Samuel Lahti)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:32:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwrcbc23TPnOD_BOkhT4ahKXD1E1EBeWos1fjA5RH7v==w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrcbc23TPnOD_BOkhT4ahKXD1E1EBeWos1fjA5RH7v==w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM63y07=Tvy8yd6Zq3sfHax3hEG5qnMh6N08uZFQTV_N9wqWZw@mail.gmail.com>

I would recommend "this" discussion of the decision process be continued on
another thread so people can filter the discussion appropriately
On Feb 5, 2014 8:16 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> What does the mission statement say about that?
> >
> >
> > I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And
> you
> > do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
> >
> > On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
> > offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
> > logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community
> outreach
> > leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not think
> > there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.
> >
> > If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
> > forgiveness later...
>
> How do you intend to pick this leader? So far there's one unnamed
> person. Let's say two other people put their names in the hat. What's
> the process?
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From sam.lahti at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 04:37:52 2014
From: sam.lahti at gmail.com (Samuel Lahti)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:37:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAM63y07=Tvy8yd6Zq3sfHax3hEG5qnMh6N08uZFQTV_N9wqWZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrcbc23TPnOD_BOkhT4ahKXD1E1EBeWos1fjA5RH7v==w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07=Tvy8yd6Zq3sfHax3hEG5qnMh6N08uZFQTV_N9wqWZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM63y04sNXWpHbF0=n+uo_EvgC6h9PdfFVbqGhaLebZPghd9Cw@mail.gmail.com>

Assuming, of course, this idea is supported ;)
On Feb 5, 2014 9:32 PM, "Samuel Lahti" <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would recommend "this" discussion of the decision process be continued
> on another thread so people can filter the discussion appropriately
> On Feb 5, 2014 8:16 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What does the mission statement say about that?
>> >
>> >
>> > I take full responsibility for how disorganized ChiPy is at times. And
>> you
>> > do not need to quote the copy I wrote back to me :)
>> >
>> > On a related topic, I am reaching out looking for help here. I have one
>> > offer from someone off the list; however, there might be a temporary
>> > logistics problem with that person. If you want to be our community
>> outreach
>> > leader and add value to the group, please speak up. If you do not think
>> > there needs to be such a person  ... don't volunteer.
>> >
>> > If you see something that needs to be done better, do it :) Ask for
>> > forgiveness later...
>>
>> How do you intend to pick this leader? So far there's one unnamed
>> person. Let's say two other people put their names in the hat. What's
>> the process?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
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From brian at python.org  Thu Feb  6 05:15:50 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:15:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAM63y07=Tvy8yd6Zq3sfHax3hEG5qnMh6N08uZFQTV_N9wqWZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38ts+Ep_bNYXuD0ENWC-54E8VNHBxX2uSb_DK9adCPomyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpoOD5fefSxWMfKVthnPOtcoeiQJk0dgMTJXeEjkqT9aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s-+FxoGZOpn6_nq5a43fqS9gWmtHp0raMiM73yHy3N7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrcbc23TPnOD_BOkhT4ahKXD1E1EBeWos1fjA5RH7v==w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y07=Tvy8yd6Zq3sfHax3hEG5qnMh6N08uZFQTV_N9wqWZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwqA-v_Q45HCrVDWd2WOARYssbpFyTgZDUU7-WrMhG6+Lw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would recommend "this" discussion of the decision process be continued on
> another thread so people can filter the discussion appropriately

It's already off-track with sarcasm and meta-discussion. If someone
wants to create another thread, fine. The question is about the topic
at hand.

From asheesh at asheesh.org  Thu Feb  6 09:36:34 2014
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 00:36:34 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAFyrOVRbA2m-HjLWwsgPSBkPVzreYNdpHxmpDtmc5yA3jiCVmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFyrOVRbA2m-HjLWwsgPSBkPVzreYNdpHxmpDtmc5yA3jiCVmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFyrOVT0uoiAevWYHDcFpMDr3QSxbq99WGPv9R8i8y6xoQ1Dxg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

It's an exciting idea to see ChiPy work more on getting the word out. As
someone who's done similar things for other groups I've been involved in,
and who's seen some groups fork due to leader conflicts and others stay
coherent in the face of growth, here are my suggestions for how to do that
well.

For the group to feel good about the outreach someone is doing, generally
they should:

* Not spend much of their professional life recruiting software engineers;
otherwise, that tends to make people uncomfortable with their motives.

* Be someone who is interested in listening to other local group organizers
and finding out where cross-overs might be found.

* Be someone who maintains a very healthy attitude of respect toward all
people, including respecting diversity of personal background/gender/etc.
and of professional background (new programmers/geologists doing Python in
academia/etc.).

I am sure that the group will pick such a person, and I'm excited to see
someone like that step forward.

I'm a little concerned by Brian Ray mentioning he wants to grow the group
while maintaining the "bit of an insider group" feel. It seems to me those
goals are at odds. I'm also a little confused (and honestly, weirded-out)
by the switching between "we" and "I" in the original email. It's not clear
if ChiPy is organized by multiple people with a process, or just Brian Ray.
The ChiPy website seems silent on this point.

Regardless, as this thread is primarily about who will volunteer, let's see
who can help. That's the most important step.

I will also say that "I would like to hand some specific instructions for
the first meeting or two... then let you take it from there" seems like a
reasonable set-up for a volunteer.

p.s. I sent this from the wrong address a moment ago; pardon the noise,
dear moderator.


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:34 AM, Asheesh Laroia <lists at asheesh.org> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> It's an exciting idea to see ChiPy work more on getting the word out. As
> someone who's done similar things for other groups I've been involved in,
> and who's seen some groups fork due to leader conflicts and others stay
> coherent in the face of growth, here are my suggestions for how to do that
> well.
>
> For the group to feel good about the outreach someone is doing, generally
> they should:
>
> * Not spend much of their professional life recruiting software engineers;
> otherwise, that tends to make people uncomfortable with their motives.
>
> * Be someone who is interested in listening to other local group
> organizers and finding out where cross-overs might be found.
>
> * Be someone who maintains a very healthy attitude of respect toward all
> people, including respecting diversity of personal background/gender/etc.
> and of professional background (new programmers/geologists doing Python in
> academia/etc.).
>
> I am sure that the group will pick such a person, and I'm excited to see
> someone like that step forward.
>
> I'm a little concerned by Brian Ray mentioning he wants to grow the group
> while maintaining the "bit of an insider group" feel. It seems to me those
> goals are at odds. I'm also a little confused (and honestly, weirded-out)
> by the switching between "we" and "I" in the original email. It's not clear
> if ChiPy is organized by multiple people with a process, or just Brian Ray.
> The ChiPy website seems silent on this point.
>
> Regardless, as this thread is primarily about who will volunteer, let's
> see who can help. That's the most important step.
>
> I will also say that "I would like to hand some specific instructions for
> the first meeting or two... then let you take it from there" seems like a
> reasonable set-up for a volunteer.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I use to send ChiPy announcements to a bunch of *friendly* usergroups
>>> and schools. Like College listserv lists, social media sites, Linux user
>>> groups, Big data groups.... others who might be interested and not find it
>>> annoying. I have stopped doing that in recent years because: A) we did not
>>> need it and B) I did not have time.
>>>
>>> I think we should take a swing at it again. We should be picky and
>>> always shoot for quality over quantity. Does anyone want to take up the
>>> rungs as our Community Leader?  I would like to hand some specific
>>> instructions for the first meeting or two... then let you take it from
>>> there.
>>>
>>
>> I really dislike a lot of things about this email.
>>
>> While I completely understand and appreciate point B, point A goes
>> against what a user group is typically there for: to be a group for people
>> who use a certain thing. I've never heard of anyone not sharing their
>> announcements with other groups because "we didn't need it." Who is the
>> "we" in "a group of Python using people located in Chicago" that didn't
>> need it?
>>
>> I agree that that ChiPy should take a swing at wider dissemination of
>> news again, but "quality over quantity" is again missing the point. Plus,
>> what does that even mean? What is a quality group versus a non-quality
>> group? Why does it matter what one person thinks about the quality of the
>> group with respect to them showing up and watching or speaking at a
>> meeting? Is there a reason why you wouldn't send news to a group you deem
>> to be more of a quantity than a quality?
>>
>> If you want to share announcements, share announcements with everyone who
>> can benefit from them.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 12:48:41 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:48:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CAFyrOVT0uoiAevWYHDcFpMDr3QSxbq99WGPv9R8i8y6xoQ1Dxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFyrOVRbA2m-HjLWwsgPSBkPVzreYNdpHxmpDtmc5yA3jiCVmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFyrOVT0uoiAevWYHDcFpMDr3QSxbq99WGPv9R8i8y6xoQ1Dxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38t9opik0kZLJuy5dK3Xh-eJaA1j1+PKyV2pyGBdA7dBXA@mail.gmail.com>

First, when someone asks for help, please be kind. There are many times
members ask for help and it's probably better to either help them if you
have the knowledge or don't . If I were asking for Python help, everyone on
here would be awesome.

Just for the record, I spend my professional life writing Python not
recruiting. I have never taken a cent from any placements where ChiPy asked
for referral fees. All of that has gone back to ChiPy.

Regarding, "quality vs quantity." There is something I want everyone to
remember: we are a big city, people like free food, our sponsors are
generous, we sometimes have limited space, and besides capacity issues,
when we do promote too broadly, those here to learn Python are out numbered
by those who do truely have alteriour motives.

Now  I'm done defending. I'm not the perfect guy for outreach. I would like
to spend more time on finding venues an speakers.

Can I get a +1. I'm really trying...



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 12:51:38 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:51:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Topics for next weeks meeting
Message-ID: <CANKg38tHBE6f9d8HsdXnwQ7zBqGWdmQAFZuzs-j=oSWnmuLHqA@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone got something they want to present?

As always, best meeting ever.

Brian


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 14:34:07 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:34:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
Message-ID: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>

I found a Director of Outreach. They will be named shortly. It is a 6 month
gig and we will see how it goes.

Side note, they will be sending out a survey now and after six. Here are
the results from last time:

Please rate the following:

   - Answered: 31
   - Skipped: 1

PresentationsLocationsOrganizationFoodCommunityDiscussion
012345

-
Poor-
Below Average-
Average-
Above Average-
Great-
Total-
Average Rating-
Presentations
0%
0
6.45%
2
19.35%
6
54.84%
17
19.35%
6

31

3.87
Locations
3.45%
1
0%
0
34.48%
10
37.93%
11
24.14%
7

29

3.79
Organization
0%
0
0%
0
26.67%
8
56.67%
17
16.67%
5

30

3.90
Food
0%
0
0%
0
37.93%
11
41.38%
12
20.69%
6

29

3.83
Community
0%
0
0%
0
6.67%
2
50%
15
43.33%
13

30

4.37
Discussion
0%
0
0%
0
16.67%
5
46.67%
14
36.67%
11

30

4.20
They key here is to segment this survey between those who attend frequently
and not.

Just a side note, most people who took this survey do seem to like ChiPy.


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From geoffbrown at comcast.net  Thu Feb  6 14:55:19 2014
From: geoffbrown at comcast.net (Geoff Brown)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:55:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38t9opik0kZLJuy5dK3Xh-eJaA1j1+PKyV2pyGBdA7dBXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38v_1q_yhnnV_LHi4tDfrwFka3+q0OSjjWhsehxL0dmyNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwr0NH7neHcvnUUEjdut=C3ny-MS+iwubbNOZD9AdU9HGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFyrOVRbA2m-HjLWwsgPSBkPVzreYNdpHxmpDtmc5yA3jiCVmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFyrOVT0uoiAevWYHDcFpMDr3QSxbq99WGPv9R8i8y6xoQ1Dxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38t9opik0kZLJuy5dK3Xh-eJaA1j1+PKyV2pyGBdA7dBXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <316390AC14F4444598A4DF2A841B3113@GeoffBPC>

+100 - I will speak for myself, but I think its representative of a large portion of the group when I say I am very appreciative of everything you do for us Brian.

THANK YOU!!

Geoff
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brian Ray 
  To: The Chicago Python Users Group 
  Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 5:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Chicago] Community/Social Alliance Help


  First, when someone asks for help, please be kind. There are many times members ask for help and it's probably better to either help them if you have the knowledge or don't . If I were asking for Python help, everyone on here would be awesome. 



  Just for the record, I spend my professional life writing Python not recruiting. I have never taken a cent from any placements where ChiPy asked for referral fees. All of that has gone back to ChiPy.


  Regarding, "quality vs quantity." There is something I want everyone to remember: we are a big city, people like free food, our sponsors are generous, we sometimes have limited space, and besides capacity issues, when we do promote too broadly, those here to learn Python are out numbered by those who do truely have alteriour motives.


  Now  I'm done defending. I'm not the perfect guy for outreach. I would like to spend more time on finding venues an speakers. 


  Can I get a +1. I'm really trying...




  -- 
  Brian Ray 
  @brianray
  (773) 669-7717




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Chicago mailing list
  Chicago at python.org
  https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Feb  6 15:21:53 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:21:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> I found a Director of Outreach. They will be named shortly. It is a 6
> month gig and we will see how it goes.


Here is my stance on this.

A decision like this should happen openly and involve discussion with chipy
members. Consider Pumping Station: One as an example. The concept of
membership there is less fuzzy than it is with chipy, but ps1 does serve as
an example of a community where there are positions with specific
responsibilities as well as "area hosts". For board positions, such as
treasurer, director, vp, etc., members nominate other members or
themselves, there is discussion on the mailing list and in person, and
before a vote each nominee talks to the group.

For area hosts, the board will ask members to apply for an area. For
example, this happened recently with the tool cage area. People are able to
attend board meetings until it is time for the board to vote.

I like this type of model more than I like the model of one person making a
decision by fiat.



-- 
sheila
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From shekay at pobox.com  Thu Feb  6 16:26:06 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:26:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
 <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rauCA-3kKQ-0fTyGSppqtTsE_4qO9nZ3uGZafyg8oDB8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Cezar Jenkins <emperorcezar at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm somewhat disheartened by the discussion going on here. Brian asked for
> a volunteer and it turned into a discussion of decision making that has the
> smell of an attack.


I agree it has a smell. I disagree that discussion shouldn't happen with
more people.

I don't volunteer for chipy because of the decision making process. Perhaps
other people feel the same way. We won't know unless we discuss the
decision making process.


-- 
sheila
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Feb  6 16:23:09 2014
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:23:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>

This only works if there is more than one volunteer.?

While I like the sentiment, and agree it should be done when there is conflict on the choice, it should be done only when needed. Decisions by committee can work really well when people need to come to terms, but in my experience do little more than slow things to a crawl, and burn people out from bike shedding that results.

I?m somewhat disheartened by the discussion going on here. Brian asked for a volunteer and it turned into a discussion of decision making that has the smell of an attack.?

I only see changing the way things are done now if there is a) a demonstrated need to do so, and b) enough volunteers to build a board.

PS1 was mentioned earlier. That?s a much different situation, they rent property, deal with dangerous equipment, and other things that shoulder a much higher level of responsibility. One thing to point out with them is that when they were moving, and needed to get things done, they established a temporary dictatorship to do so.

TLDR: I don?t see a demonstrated need to turn Chipy into a bureaucracy.?



--?
Cezar Jenkins
@emperorcezar
From:?sheila miguez sheila miguez
Reply:?The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Date:?February 6, 2014 at 8:24:44 AM
To:?The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Subject:? Re: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly  

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
I found a Director of Outreach. They will be named shortly. It is a 6 month gig and we will see how it goes.

Here is my stance on this.

A decision like this should happen openly and involve discussion with chipy members. Consider Pumping Station: One as an example. The concept of membership there is less fuzzy than it is with chipy, but ps1 does serve as an example of a community where there are positions with specific responsibilities as well as "area hosts". For board positions, such as treasurer, director, vp, etc., members nominate other members or themselves, there is discussion on the mailing list and in person, and before a vote each nominee talks to the group.

For area hosts, the board will ask members to apply for an area. For example, this happened recently with the tool cage area. People are able to attend board meetings until it is time for the board to vote.

I like this type of model more than I like the model of one person making a decision by fiat.



--
sheila
_______________________________________________  
Chicago mailing list  
Chicago at python.org  
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago  
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Feb  7 15:41:48 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 08:41:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rauCA-3kKQ-0fTyGSppqtTsE_4qO9nZ3uGZafyg8oDB8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
 <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
 <CAHCs_rauCA-3kKQ-0fTyGSppqtTsE_4qO9nZ3uGZafyg8oDB8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vB47zKgCcApo20pcoP=dcm9NZLTeJnUuVE7jfhcbsS+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:26 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> I don't volunteer for chipy because of the decision making process.
> Perhaps other people feel the same way. We won't know unless we discuss the
> decision making process.
>
>
There is no major decision to be made here. The choices are:

A) I delegate the work to everyone -- which does not work well because due
to the nature of the tasks we need a point person and that still makes me
the point person.

B) I delegate the work to the one qualified volunteer.  (There was actually
two, but the other one is out of the country for at least months)

C)  I continue to do it myself.

I pick B.

If anyone has any possible disagreements with that choice, please speak up
by the end of the day today.  The volunteer has already kindly set aside
some of her time to do work this weekend. I really don't want to pull her
off the task because it is monumentally important and something that is the
groups best interest. I have two other tasks for this person next week that
includes entertaining a conversation with a professor who revealed to me
they use Python extensively and where we need to figure out how to get them
looped into the group. He may benefit from a flyer to post to the
department cork-board. I simply do not have time next week to entertain
that conversation. I don't know what he needs. Frankly, I am embarrassed to
point his students to this list because of the recent conversations.

Sheila, you actually do volunteer a lot. I don't know what you are talking
about. I actually really appreciate the work you and Carl put into the
group. I will try to be transparent so you feel included in the
conversation; however, lengthy discussions on the mailing list is just not
the way I usually do business. I do try to keep moving things forward and
pick up the balls when they get dropped.  Ad hominem tu quoque.

Brian
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  7 16:06:08 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:06:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vB47zKgCcApo20pcoP=dcm9NZLTeJnUuVE7jfhcbsS+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
 <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
 <CAHCs_rauCA-3kKQ-0fTyGSppqtTsE_4qO9nZ3uGZafyg8oDB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vB47zKgCcApo20pcoP=dcm9NZLTeJnUuVE7jfhcbsS+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ih7roH-pmZ0AihZm+AX31NhUVMXCv8AXYpFe=iq0DKi8g@mail.gmail.com>

I will +1 going ahead with a delegation for an Outreach person.  Self
preservation forces me add a +1 for inclusion of total newbies to Python.

I will also+1 Sheila for all the inreach and outreach efforts she does.  I
will thank Carl for the gargantuan efforts in collecting video related to
Python.  I will +1 the Emperor for our web site upgrade and maintenance.  I
will 1 < summa + < n -1 All of the eating, listening, topic discussion and
side conversations of our group at our summa best meetings ever which means
giving a + infinity to Brian Ray and all of those who aid his efforts for
us.

We continue to learn.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html

I tend to think this way when around someone who talks a lot because I
think there is just not that much truth currently in existence.  Then I
think 2,4,6,?  pause then think 2, 4,6, 10**9 + 2, 10**9 + 4, 10**9 + 6,?


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:26 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't volunteer for chipy because of the decision making process.
>> Perhaps other people feel the same way. We won't know unless we discuss the
>> decision making process.
>>
>>
> There is no major decision to be made here. The choices are:
>
> A) I delegate the work to everyone -- which does not work well because due
> to the nature of the tasks we need a point person and that still makes me
> the point person.
>
> B) I delegate the work to the one qualified volunteer.  (There was
> actually two, but the other one is out of the country for at least months)
>
> C)  I continue to do it myself.
>
> I pick B.
>
> If anyone has any possible disagreements with that choice, please speak up
> by the end of the day today.  The volunteer has already kindly set aside
> some of her time to do work this weekend. I really don't want to pull her
> off the task because it is monumentally important and something that is the
> groups best interest. I have two other tasks for this person next week that
> includes entertaining a conversation with a professor who revealed to me
> they use Python extensively and where we need to figure out how to get them
> looped into the group. He may benefit from a flyer to post to the
> department cork-board. I simply do not have time next week to entertain
> that conversation. I don't know what he needs. Frankly, I am embarrassed to
> point his students to this list because of the recent conversations.
>
> Sheila, you actually do volunteer a lot. I don't know what you are talking
> about. I actually really appreciate the work you and Carl put into the
> group. I will try to be transparent so you feel included in the
> conversation; however, lengthy discussions on the mailing list is just not
> the way I usually do business. I do try to keep moving things forward and
> pick up the balls when they get dropped.  Ad hominem tu quoque.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Feb  7 16:17:08 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:17:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Director of Outreach to be named shortly
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ih7roH-pmZ0AihZm+AX31NhUVMXCv8AXYpFe=iq0DKi8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38urEo3FdBUQPnaYQZT3Ob0QERNy=owXB+tMh6eE+H7f8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ=70va-5iYxVd9Y0zgBeQvBh0dM=E=pUNSFYZziF3smw@mail.gmail.com>
 <etPan.52f3a8dd.7545e146.1191@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
 <CAHCs_rauCA-3kKQ-0fTyGSppqtTsE_4qO9nZ3uGZafyg8oDB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vB47zKgCcApo20pcoP=dcm9NZLTeJnUuVE7jfhcbsS+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ih7roH-pmZ0AihZm+AX31NhUVMXCv8AXYpFe=iq0DKi8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38t2Rjd6qcK4jxKt-CSgLKeJsJGx_t5auarVJc8WiBznrg@mail.gmail.com>

"I will +1 the Emperor for our web site upgrade and maintenance."

Not only does Cezar mentor a ton of development of the site, he also is the
moderator of this list. We get nearly a dozen posts every single weeks from
head hunters, spammers, and others we need to carefully moderate
for appropriate content.

There are also countless other members to thank.

Right now I want to thank just about anyone who puts in positive energy to
the group.
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From toastie604 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  7 22:28:25 2014
From: toastie604 at gmail.com (Keith Erskine)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:28:25 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Segmentation fault with ceODBC
Message-ID: <CAOMz2hBZiSewjQUKb=n-PpooP5k3Gyew8Ee5Q_EHKAgh7nw0_g@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this kind of question, but I'm
trying to get the Python ceODBC module working with Python 3.3 on a Linux
box and I'm kinda stuck,  I've installed version 2.0.1 from the source code
using setup.py, but when I try to make a connection to a SQL Server
database I get a segmentation fault and a core dump.  This could be because
ceODBC is compatible with only Python 3.2 not 3.3.  I don't know enough
about these things to know if it that's significant in this case.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated (ceODBC is about 30 times
faster than pyodbc for bulk inserts), even just to point me in the
direction of a better forum for this.

Many thanks,
Keith
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From adam at adamforsyth.net  Fri Feb  7 22:33:00 2014
From: adam at adamforsyth.net (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:33:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Segmentation fault with ceODBC
In-Reply-To: <CAOMz2hBZiSewjQUKb=n-PpooP5k3Gyew8Ee5Q_EHKAgh7nw0_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOMz2hBZiSewjQUKb=n-PpooP5k3Gyew8Ee5Q_EHKAgh7nw0_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N8Sq6RSCn12aoBAw=gYrQnVXVu7137DQN7ufPaRO7p-yA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a huge fan of Stack Overflow for questions like this, but it doesn't
appear to be compatible with 3.3. There is a specific line item in the
changelog about making it compatible with 3.2, and that's the current
release.

http://ceodbc.sourceforge.net/HISTORY.txt


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Keith Erskine <toastie604 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this kind of question, but I'm
> trying to get the Python ceODBC module working with Python 3.3 on a Linux
> box and I'm kinda stuck,  I've installed version 2.0.1 from the source code
> using setup.py, but when I try to make a connection to a SQL Server
> database I get a segmentation fault and a core dump.  This could be because
> ceODBC is compatible with only Python 3.2 not 3.3.  I don't know enough
> about these things to know if it that's significant in this case.
>
> Any help on this would be greatly appreciated (ceODBC is about 30 times
> faster than pyodbc for bulk inserts), even just to point me in the
> direction of a better forum for this.
>
> Many thanks,
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From toastie604 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  8 16:14:33 2014
From: toastie604 at gmail.com (Keith Erskine)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 09:14:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Segmentation fault with ceODBC
Message-ID: <CAOMz2hC+uh3Bre-uqoMvBrZ1dw1KTjQbVdW2xOrGCqOPN-4KtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks for the suggestion Adam, I will try Stack Overflow.
Regards,
Keith

> I'm a huge fan of Stack Overflow for questions like this, but it doesn't
appear to be compatible with
> 3.3. There is a specific line item in the changelog about making it
compatible with 3.2, and that's
> the current release.
>
> http://ceodbc.sourceforge.net/HISTORY.txt
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From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Feb  9 16:33:19 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 09:33:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Heroku and Django
In-Reply-To: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAATXiX+ntSqnKiK8F7PwsEWH5OcSGFZkdp7rDL_YdTYeY4fdXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbTJyknvWRMkuB4+TSq5pBUfioHQ_GGrSvrmdPS9ANi5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Fehrenbach
<dnfehrenbach at gmail.com>wrote:

> Email sucks for trying to ask this kind of question with all the extra
> details so if I can provide more information in another way let me know - I
> would really appreciate any help that's available.
>

Did you work through this? Python office hours is this week,
https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/Python_Office_Hours and I'll be there.
I've had an app running on heroku before. I took it off due to $$. I don't
know that I can help you enough to get your app running, but we could try.

You could also ping Cezar and whoever else is working on chipy.org.
https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org When I was learning how to write
a django app runnin on heroku, I learned by looking at the chipy repo in
addition to 2 scoops.



-- 
sheila
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From shekay at pobox.com  Sun Feb  9 18:31:14 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:31:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon rehearsal
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rb27AdVjj93U2RRi7PMgnT24OGBCEQW83EY-13DaB1RcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is there any interest in PyCon rehearsal? I've never presented a poster
before, and I'd like help talking through the process. Perhaps I could talk
to someone at an upcoming office hours or project night.

Other people in the group have talks, perhaps they'd like to present a talk
to rehearse?


-- 
sheila
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From jdumblauskas at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 03:16:12 2014
From: jdumblauskas at gmail.com (Jerry Dumblauskas)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 20:16:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
Message-ID: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are planning
on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible, preferably
by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this will help
with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.

See you Thursday!

thx

Jerry
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From jp at zavteq.com  Mon Feb 10 04:14:38 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 21:14:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRRBbbuGj7x4az+K=7rCa3pXw_0t7_STCqJH=Ynepi=eWg@mail.gmail.com>

Any chance they can do something Kosher? Never hurts to ask, right? ;)


On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Jerry Dumblauskas <jdumblauskas at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi!
>
> As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are
> planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible,
> preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this
> will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.
>
> See you Thursday!
>
> thx
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 14:44:11 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 07:44:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ijgF=FTq5D9u40miBpsPUQqpv_ugHwCFe93uXKgv=hmHQ@mail.gmail.com>

I got the meetup post to RSVP but am I correct that we need to RSVP at the
ChiPy site.  I seem to have missed that post this month.

Randy


On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Jerry Dumblauskas <jdumblauskas at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi!
>
> As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are
> planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible,
> preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this
> will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.
>
> See you Thursday!
>
> thx
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 14:46:35 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 07:46:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ijMYV3K-Co32=i0fFs5s4JGSCkRtxoocSgfHfhQjjbbXg@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, oh, oh, oh.  I forgot to mention that I love Rick Bayless' soups and
tacos and that I think he has a place in the basement of B of A or close by.


On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Jerry Dumblauskas <jdumblauskas at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi!
>
> As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are
> planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible,
> preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this
> will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.
>
> See you Thursday!
>
> thx
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 14:50:11 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 07:50:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ihbAFVNE7+c6ZmjLkZrkV+m=ymH0trh3JPmUHvh2-ZJfQ@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I did see it but had forgotten.

Please rsvp:

http://www.chipy.org/


On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Jerry Dumblauskas <jdumblauskas at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi!
>
> As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are
> planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible,
> preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this
> will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.
>
> See you Thursday!
>
> thx
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From AMartinez at itmmi.com  Mon Feb 10 15:47:29 2014
From: AMartinez at itmmi.com (Alex Martinez)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:47:29 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <titg9u0jkfr9912kr8t040mi.1392043639068@email.android.com>

Jerry
I don't recall getting invite.  I will attend. Should I RSVP on our member website?

 Thanks
Alex Martinez


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S?4 Active?, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jerry Dumblauskas
Date:02/09/2014 10:11 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Chicago at python.org
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP

Hi!

As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible, preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.

See you Thursday!

thx

Jerry
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From carl at personnelware.com  Mon Feb 10 19:35:14 2014
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:35:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy video sponsorship
Message-ID: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>

ChiPy,

For anyone who doesn't know who I am, I'm normally the guy with all the
cables, cameras, speakers, etc trying to make sure our meetups get recorded
(and streamed). Up until now my AV work is pro bono and I've gotten some
good feedback about it. In the recent past, some sponsors have stepped up
and inquired how they can help sponsor my work directly. Honestly I'm
uncomfortable getting funded directly for this work, so I'm trying to
figure out where I should direct these sponsors? Where should that money go
and how do we account for it? I personally feel like this is ChiPy's money,
so what I'm really asking, aside from helping defray my costs, how should a
sponsor give us money so that (even if I get some reimbursement) it goes to
the group?

Thanks!

-- 
Carl K
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 19:49:11 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:49:11 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy video sponsorship
In-Reply-To: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uY3nd5eKA61Q84efseDcy6E0R6fQEfr8U43d-DkSsdaw@mail.gmail.com>

Carl:

ChiPy does have a bank account. I would not mind making you a signer if
that helps. We would need to go there together to make this happen and I am
out of town until Thursdays meeting. If this is the route you wish to go,
they can make a check out to "Chicago Python User Group."  That way you
could also take out your cut. If the entirety is your cut I would just have
them make the check out to you.

Brian

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From pete at wearpants.org  Mon Feb 10 21:22:36 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:22:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy video sponsorship
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uY3nd5eKA61Q84efseDcy6E0R6fQEfr8U43d-DkSsdaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uY3nd5eKA61Q84efseDcy6E0R6fQEfr8U43d-DkSsdaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwwWcuRTVVSxBOdoDy3qCVgi5Gvi=euiq_aq31uU0L_cSA@mail.gmail.com>

As someone who's had to deal with this recently, I'm a little confused -
how does Chipy have a bank account without being  legally incorporated (as
a non profit or otherwise)?
On Feb 10, 2014 12:49 PM, "Brian Ray" <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Carl:
>
> ChiPy does have a bank account. I would not mind making you a signer if
> that helps. We would need to go there together to make this happen and I am
> out of town until Thursdays meeting. If this is the route you wish to go,
> they can make a check out to "Chicago Python User Group."  That way you
> could also take out your cut. If the entirety is your cut I would just have
> them make the check out to you.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Mon Feb 10 21:31:32 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:31:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy video sponsorship
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwwWcuRTVVSxBOdoDy3qCVgi5Gvi=euiq_aq31uU0L_cSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uY3nd5eKA61Q84efseDcy6E0R6fQEfr8U43d-DkSsdaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwWcuRTVVSxBOdoDy3qCVgi5Gvi=euiq_aq31uU0L_cSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38utkSfKNWVLhDA+0ysKY0mzEQ9ndkNE0VdbhM1LZQo_hg@mail.gmail.com>

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2011-September/008464.html

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From pete at wearpants.org  Mon Feb 10 21:40:46 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:40:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy video sponsorship
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38utkSfKNWVLhDA+0ysKY0mzEQ9ndkNE0VdbhM1LZQo_hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADmzSShdH=O6WZnLGAEGKZ=knvUQ-_okMYJHJ2bk9F2dhTDMdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uY3nd5eKA61Q84efseDcy6E0R6fQEfr8U43d-DkSsdaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwWcuRTVVSxBOdoDy3qCVgi5Gvi=euiq_aq31uU0L_cSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38utkSfKNWVLhDA+0ysKY0mzEQ9ndkNE0VdbhM1LZQo_hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwzqh_svpwOm67XXb_wBDBYT8=uhzEu072VMTJJjPZSaMw@mail.gmail.com>

Ah cool, didn't know that... Who's on the board of directors? Bylaws,
budgets, etc. seem like the sort of thing that should be on the website...
I know the Python Software Foundation publishes that stuff pretty regularly.
On Feb 10, 2014 2:32 PM, "Brian Ray" <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2011-September/008464.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jdumblauskas at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 00:18:56 2014
From: jdumblauskas at gmail.com (Jerry Dumblauskas)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:18:56 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
In-Reply-To: <titg9u0jkfr9912kr8t040mi.1392043639068@email.android.com>
References: <CA+G_OOuGAwCVsXRCdmXgRCaXnF1MUCHfViQ8N8KN--Payyot0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <titg9u0jkfr9912kr8t040mi.1392043639068@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G_OOsZjaYW=VCSWgiyfc1dvX1ytWkhm7S_L7We4k2Dhb2NEw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes - please do your RSVP thru the Chipy site -- that is the list we will
be giving to security for access to the building.

See you Thursday.

thx

Jerry


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Alex Martinez <AMartinez at itmmi.com> wrote:

>  Jerry
> I don't recall getting invite.  I will attend. Should I RSVP on our member
> website?
>
>   Thanks
> Alex Martinez
>
>
>  Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4 Active(tm), an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jerry Dumblauskas
> Date:02/09/2014 10:11 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Chicago at python.org
> Subject: [Chicago] RSVP
>
>  Hi!
>
>  As you know -- BofA is hosting the meeting this month.  If you are
> planning on attending we'd like like if you can RSVP as soon as possible,
> preferably by tomorrow, end of day.  Since we are getting this catered this
> will help with planning and that everyone gets enough to eat and drink.
>
>  See you Thursday!
>
>  thx
>
>  Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From 42 at jbcurtin.io  Tue Feb 11 03:02:53 2014
From: 42 at jbcurtin.io (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:02:53 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] DevOpts, using python.
Message-ID: <CALmWdSjQy6Z-Z6=_wNmyPa9wmTuX-W9wK5FFmFDqr4r9H+6gHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

 Is anyone interested in more DevOpts?

 I've completed another version of my Cedar api and I would like to talk
about how to install software, easily, using with-statements.  (
https://gist.github.com/jbcurtin/34f5d5b7320cc4cf37f4 ) I'll have source
examples on how to install Salt and other enterprise software on top of it.


Cheers,
-Joseph Curtin
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From jp at zavteq.com  Tue Feb 11 05:12:23 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:12:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] DevOpts, using python.
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdSjQy6Z-Z6=_wNmyPa9wmTuX-W9wK5FFmFDqr4r9H+6gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALmWdSjQy6Z-Z6=_wNmyPa9wmTuX-W9wK5FFmFDqr4r9H+6gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRQ3Re_WA7qi1WjwL0XJ1r9VkrLM7x3Q8hRsBhyTFDgo+w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm quite interested, but more learning/doing this in a workshop so I could
improve my devops skills. Could we potentially do it during an off week?

JP

JP Bader
Principal, Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r
608.692.2468
On Feb 10, 2014 8:27 PM, "Joseph Curtin" <42 at jbcurtin.io> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
>  Is anyone interested in more DevOpts?
>
>  I've completed another version of my Cedar api and I would like to talk
> about how to install software, easily, using with-statements.  (
> https://gist.github.com/jbcurtin/34f5d5b7320cc4cf37f4 ) I'll have source
> examples on how to install Salt and other enterprise software on top of it.
>
>
> Cheers,
> -Joseph Curtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 07:10:22 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:10:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Richard Lynch - donate if you can spare a few bucks
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwrEhUy1wkEE7_YvXCOB2XMH4YgbTaS_b=_P-xjfeE3Etw@mail.gmail.com>

http://richardlynch.blogspot.com/2014/01/end-game.html
http://richardlynch.blogspot.com/2014/02/yesterday-i-went-to-my-interview-for.html

Richard ran the Chicago PHP group for a long time, and he was recently
given 3-6 months to live as a result of brain cancer. There's a PayPal
link in the top right of the blog posts.

From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 16:15:36 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:15:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Divvy hackathon
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwqRtzs6HB1Kbxzjd+cACPpBNnT7eejF0rGo+u2HrV+Hxg@mail.gmail.com>

Could be interesting to look at, especially for the project night or
just in general: http://divvybikes.com/datachallenge

The challenge opens today and runs for a month, until EOD March 11.

From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 16:23:40 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:23:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Nonprofit dissolved? was Re: ChiPy video sponsorship
Message-ID: <CABD8qwx4pVW0kOmg9t7oawHLQFz8nQULMUu7yP7_0Pf+ct2hbQ@mail.gmail.com>

I looked up the Chipy nonprofit mentioned below, and it seems it was
involuntarily dissolved on February 8, 2013. Search for file number
68128684 here http://www.ilsos.gov/corporatellc/CorporateLlcController
 Needless to say, that's a bit disconcerting... Brian?

Seeing as we only have one talk for Thursday, I'd like to facilitate a
group discussion about funding & legal structure going forward. Can we
add that to the agenda?

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
> Ah cool, didn't know that... Who's on the board of directors? Bylaws,
> budgets, etc. seem like the sort of thing that should be on the website... I
> know the Python Software Foundation publishes that stuff pretty regularly.
>
> On Feb 10, 2014 2:32 PM, "Brian Ray" <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2011-September/008464.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 18:53:29 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:53:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
Message-ID: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>

Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
idea.

So let's hold elections Thursday.

Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.

Cheers, Brian

Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's already
taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb 11 19:03:49 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:03:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rYJejetv5wyc3NN1r3oFJoDSPBq_7-fc63GuUOQ_+T1AQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here are my discussion votes:


Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and I
added it to the agenda on chipy.org).

Elections Thursday, -1.


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
> idea.
>
> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 19:12:04 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:12:04 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rYJejetv5wyc3NN1r3oFJoDSPBq_7-fc63GuUOQ_+T1AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rYJejetv5wyc3NN1r3oFJoDSPBq_7-fc63GuUOQ_+T1AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PLFw-YVCDC+0wC1R9UkFioRChydR-kBVjuBFHFqFGA5Og@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> Here are my discussion votes:
>
>
> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and I
> added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>
> Elections Thursday, -1.
>

Ditto Sheila's votes;  "bums rush elections" feels... off...  prep,
discussion feels "normal".


>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
>> idea.
>>
>> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
>> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>>
>> Cheers, Brian
>>
>> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
>> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jp at zavteq.com  Tue Feb 11 19:11:10 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:11:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>

Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running on?

I digress.

-1 for elections.
+1 for a discussion about our group's governance.

JP


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> Here are my discussion votes:
>
>
> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and I
> added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>
> Elections Thursday, -1.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
>> idea.
>>
>> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
>> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>>
>> Cheers, Brian
>>
>> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
>> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 19:55:42 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:55:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>

Brian-

I'm a little concerned by your response... we can't legally have a
bank account or solicit funds under a defunct corporation - it's
fraudulent. I'm not sure what's been "taken care of" - a dissolved
corporation can't be reinstated, we'd need to form a new one. Also a
bit confused that the corp has "nothing to do with the bank account" -
was the account owned by the corp or another entity?

Those questions aside, it's disturbing that this has been lapsed for a
year without anyone noticing.

-1000000 elections: what are we electing and who exactly gets to vote?
This seems rather rushed... still waiting for answer as to who was on
the board of directors & to see the bylaws, those seem like
prerequisites to any sort of election.

--Pete

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
> idea.
>
> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's already
> taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 19:57:54 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:57:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38t3Oyzjwy4O_PyBN_NA7Ndt6KhUX_F8ix191Y94QLvHMA@mail.gmail.com>

"Election" was probably the wrong word;) how about we think of this as an
opportunity to scratch your own itches. Don't complain if it's something
you can fix yourself :)

I would actually love to see someone step up and help. I really don't mind
stepping down either; however, historically it did not go well.

Brian




-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From japhy at pearachute.com  Tue Feb 11 19:58:39 2014
From: japhy at pearachute.com (Japhy Bartlett)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:58:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>

-1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list lately:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg

Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are not very
interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could spend 30 minutes
coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems to be short again this
month.



On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running on?
>
> I digress.
>
> -1 for elections.
> +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>
> JP
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Here are my discussion votes:
>>
>>
>> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and
>> I added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>>
>> Elections Thursday, -1.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of
>>> the idea.
>>>
>>> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so
>>> someone else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Brian
>>>
>>> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
>>> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Ray
>>> @brianray
>>> (773) 669-7717
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> sheila
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 20:40:13 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:40:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Peter:

You are wrong.
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/nfp11245.pdf
 The reason I let it lapse is because we (not just me) are in active
talks
with the Python Software Foundation to have them open a bank account for
us. It has not happened yet but it should have and will. Would love to
delegate this for someone as well. Are you offering to help Peter, or just
spewing random trolling complaints?

If you want to talk more about this with me, I'll only do so off the
mailing list since you brought up legal issues.

Final word: what is extremely disturbing here is when people who don't come
to meetings or participate regularly drop in to offer criticism but don't
offer to help. This is tiring folks. Stop complaining please.

Brian
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From steve at agilitynerd.com  Tue Feb 11 20:55:08 2014
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:55:08 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
Message-ID: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>

Personally I enjoy Chipy meetings as an opportunity to meet with Python
software developers, learn new things, and discuss software development and
technology. I attended every Chipy North meeting (and presented at two of
them) and wish I could make it to the ones in the city - so I'm also
grateful for videos of those meetings.

I don't have a problem with how Chipy is organized or run - I'm just
grateful it exists and that people do step up and do all the work behind
the scenes to organize and run it and the meetings.

I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much, codes
of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too small
and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only through
the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our benefit.

Let's focus on Python and Users here in the Chicago Python Users Group.

Best Regards,
Steve
Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
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From dgriff1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 21:04:19 2014
From: dgriff1 at gmail.com (Daniel Griffin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:04:19 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFmpWQDt790tz9pLA=Rb60Sjwed09VhQKnq6q-txGjpaJG-qyA@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed and I always thought Brian Ray did a great job with it all anyways.


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:

> Personally I enjoy Chipy meetings as an opportunity to meet with Python
> software developers, learn new things, and discuss software development and
> technology. I attended every Chipy North meeting (and presented at two of
> them) and wish I could make it to the ones in the city - so I'm also
> grateful for videos of those meetings.
>
> I don't have a problem with how Chipy is organized or run - I'm just
> grateful it exists and that people do step up and do all the work behind
> the scenes to organize and run it and the meetings.
>
> I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much, codes
> of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too small
> and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only through
> the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our benefit.
>
> Let's focus on Python and Users here in the Chicago Python Users Group.
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
> Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
> Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
> Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
> http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb 11 21:08:05 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:08:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:

>
> I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much, codes
> of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too small
> and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only through
> the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our benefit.
>

You have the luxory of not caring about a code of conduct for group
activities, but I had to kick someone out of future Chicago Python
Workshops and Python Office Hours because they harassed one of my attendees.

I hope this allows you to understand why I do not run event as affiliated
with ChiPy and why I can say that I am not volunteering for ChiPy.

Other python user groups have a good model of governance and are
transparent, for example, the Boston Python User Group. They have multiple
activities and their group is not just about one night a month. I have felt
that Chipy is more than just a group that meets once a month. Am I mistaken?



-- 
sheila
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From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 21:15:14 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:15:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>

It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
to rent a bar (really).

And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com> wrote:
> Personally I enjoy Chipy meetings as an opportunity to meet with Python
> software developers, learn new things, and discuss software development and
> technology. I attended every Chipy North meeting (and presented at two of
> them) and wish I could make it to the ones in the city - so I'm also
> grateful for videos of those meetings.
>
> I don't have a problem with how Chipy is organized or run - I'm just
> grateful it exists and that people do step up and do all the work behind the
> scenes to organize and run it and the meetings.
>
> I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much, codes
> of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too small
> and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only through
> the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our benefit.
>
> Let's focus on Python and Users here in the Chicago Python Users Group.
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve
> Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
> Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
> Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
> http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From steve at agilitynerd.com  Tue Feb 11 21:16:48 2014
From: steve at agilitynerd.com (Steve Schwarz)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:16:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKY2=TdZ8g+Ru_nW09rT-K+KuiYkp5yzQR+nZi58x=di-rOO2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:08 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much,
>> codes of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too
>> small and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only
>> through the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our
>> benefit.
>>
>
> You have the luxory of not caring about a code of conduct for group
> activities, but I had to kick someone out of future Chicago Python
> Workshops and Python Office Hours because they harassed one of my attendees.
>

Hi Sheila
If that type of activity occurs I would completely support a code of
conduct that is enforced. No one and no organization should put up with
that behavior. I've not attended Chicago Python Workshops or Python Office
Hours so don't know what kinds of people attend them. I can only speak for
the Chipy meetings I have attended and they have all been professional,
welcoming and very friendly.


>
> I hope this allows you to understand why I do not run event as affiliated
> with ChiPy and why I can say that I am not volunteering for ChiPy.
>
> Other python user groups have a good model of governance and are
> transparent, for example, the Boston Python User Group. They have multiple
> activities and their group is not just about one night a month. I have felt
> that Chipy is more than just a group that meets once a month. Am I mistaken?
>

For me they are that, just a group that meets once a month

Best Regards,
Steve
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 21:17:21 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:17:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tncQsBLduKrvMYTOkOJT9yGkZSNcy8O_zW8LFVB-J_zA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:08 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much,
>> codes of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too
>> small and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only
>> through the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our
>> benefit.
>>
>
> You have the luxory of not caring about a code of conduct for group
> activities, but I had to kick someone out of future Chicago Python
> Workshops and Python Office Hours because they harassed one of my attendees.
>

This is the first I heard of this. I'm sorry this happened; however, I
don't think that the actions of one member should reflect on the group as a
whole.

I spoke to the Boston organizer last week. He conveyed to me that there are
more than one active organizer. I wish we had that.
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From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 21:25:52 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:25:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>

Brian-

I'm not just trolling, and I resent the accusation that my concerns
about a community in which I've participated in online & off for a
decade are somehow unjustified. If you're disturbed by the questions
being asked, perhaps greater transparency would have been the way to
avoid them. Here's the questions I'm still waiting for an answer on;
after patient consideration, I'm sure you'll find there's nothing
unusual or objectionable about them.

1. who's on the board of directors?
2. what do the bylaws say?
3. who is the legal owner of the bank account?

In your original post about the nonprofit[0], you offered to share the
bank statements on request; I'd like to take you up on that.

As for discussion with PSF, it strikes me as odd that it's taken over
a year of "active talks" to sort this out, especially when the PSF is
already providing similar service to other user groups. And given that
the filing fee is $25, I can think of no good reason to allow the non
profit registration to lapse.

--Pete

[0] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/chicago/2011-September/008464.html

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter:
>
> You are wrong.
> http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/nfp11245.pdf
> The reason I let it lapse is because we (not just me) are in active talks
> with the Python Software Foundation to have them open a bank account for us.
> It has not happened yet but it should have and will. Would love to delegate
> this for someone as well. Are you offering to help Peter, or just spewing
> random trolling complaints?
>
> If you want to talk more about this with me, I'll only do so off the mailing
> list since you brought up legal issues.
>
> Final word: what is extremely disturbing here is when people who don't come
> to meetings or participate regularly drop in to offer criticism but don't
> offer to help. This is tiring folks. Stop complaining please.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 21:26:59 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:26:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:

> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
> to rent a bar (really).
>

Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors they
can be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue
and it does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...
 Also, recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.


>
> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
>

I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you offering
to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that happen,
btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless
people are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.

I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
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From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 21:31:01 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:31:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>>
>> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
>> to rent a bar (really).
>
>
> Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors they can
> be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue and it
> does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...  Also,
> recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.
>
>>
>>
>> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
>> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
>
>
> I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you offering
> to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
> donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that happen,
> btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless people
> are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.
>
> I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 21:34:24 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:34:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tfvuW2oEkaMCDjwZbx+x_94UNZAWDZ4GnsWM9qVRB4Mg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:

> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>

Like what?  Why didn't you convey those to me sooner?
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From jbcurtinnews at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 21:39:10 2014
From: jbcurtinnews at gmail.com (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:39:10 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like this thread has two discussions. One about a Code of Conduct
and one about Financing the cost of Chipy.

If I'm overstepping my place in the next few lines, do let me know. I've
been skimming this discussion for the past few days.
There should be a Code of Conduct, Sheila, can you spearhead that? Brian
Curtin, I believe you had an opinion on something simular to this?

Finances, if you want them disclosed, how would you go about doing that?
Please provide examples.


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:

> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
> >> to rent a bar (really).
> >
> >
> > Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors they
> can
> > be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue
> and it
> > does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...  Also,
> > recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
> >> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
> >
> >
> > I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you
> offering
> > to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
> > donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that happen,
> > btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless
> people
> > are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.
> >
> > I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants
>
> I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
-Joseph Curtin
http://www.jbcurtin.com
<http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
@jbcurtin
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From g at rre.tt  Tue Feb 11 21:40:40 2014
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:40:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tfvuW2oEkaMCDjwZbx+x_94UNZAWDZ4GnsWM9qVRB4Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38tfvuW2oEkaMCDjwZbx+x_94UNZAWDZ4GnsWM9qVRB4Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6s9dwSEHPaEJU8W+Ka3NtkFzEM6w8eDz7iJM3xeVfXoQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>
> Like what?  Why didn't you convey those to me sooner?

. o O "Oh man, I hope Pete's reply has the word "hookers" in it."

From g at rre.tt  Tue Feb 11 21:42:02 2014
From: g at rre.tt (Garrett Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:42:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CACU=p6s9dwSEHPaEJU8W+Ka3NtkFzEM6w8eDz7iJM3xeVfXoQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38tfvuW2oEkaMCDjwZbx+x_94UNZAWDZ4GnsWM9qVRB4Mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACU=p6s9dwSEHPaEJU8W+Ka3NtkFzEM6w8eDz7iJM3xeVfXoQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACU=p6sYjsug6eHR2pf9sULvEYmnX+FWi4=bEE9KfUU9eYL5Zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Garrett Smith <g at rre.tt> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>>
>> Like what?  Why didn't you convey those to me sooner?
>
> . o O "Oh man, I hope Pete's reply has the word "hookers" in it."

. o O "Oh crap, I hope people don't take this as sexist - just lewd."

From donald at caa.columbia.edu  Tue Feb 11 21:44:36 2014
From: donald at caa.columbia.edu (Don Sheu)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:44:36 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
Message-ID: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>

Peter Fein, a dissolved corporation in most jurisdictions can be
reinstated. It requires a filing to bring matters up to date and some form
of a fee. Maintaining any form of a corporation is asking for another tax
return every year. Without help, it's very common that filings are missed
and status may lapse. It's why many lean startup disciples recommend
holding off on a legal form until there's a need to take in investment
money from a formal VC.

I know that the ChiPy members are diverse. Is there an attorney to
volunteer to do legal administrative housekeeping? If there isn't can a
member solicit a friend or family member to donate some time pro bono?

Sheila Miguez, did I read your email correctly that you're not volunteering
for ChiPy? If it's the current state is to your distaste, I don't know how
it's going to improve if there's only criticism without offering a helping
hand.

Money, what's the concern for money? I've never paid anything. Who's paid
anything for ChiPy? I could come up with some bromides in both Chinese and
Korean for this kind of an attitude. I'll refrain. I'll just get this one
out, ??????

As far as code of conduct goes, has there been a problem? A fast fix might
be adopt the PyCon or Python Software Foundation Cod of Conduct.

Also, if people are going to cite law without any training, I suggest
everybody do a refresher on libel and slander. Those are real offenses, and
can be very expensive. That's a legally mandated code of conduct.

So far I see needs for volunteers to do the following (feel free to place
your name under your calling):

*Legal Housekeeping*


*Some form of Code of Conduct*


*Programming Director to Guide Topics*



*Sponsorship Director*


Are there volunteers? Also, anybody want to update us the history of ChiPy.
Seems like there's been movements like this before where it didn't fare
well?

I ask everybody think of something they've done every month for 11 years. I
can't cite a single thing. Even in my marriage of 13 years, I can't say
that I've loved my wife for every one of the months in 11 years.

There's a faithfulness to that kind of dedication where somebody shows up
for 11 years month in and month out that deserves respect. Let's pay
respect that's due along with help to make ChiPy a stronger organization
that invites passionate participation.

-- 
  Don Sheu
  ???
  (312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org <http://www.openforcetour.org>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:00:15 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:00:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:

> It sounds like this thread has two discussions. One about a Code of
> Conduct and one about Financing the cost of Chipy.
>
> If I'm overstepping my place in the next few lines, do let me know. I've
> been skimming this discussion for the past few days.
> There should be a Code of Conduct, Sheila, can you spearhead that? Brian
> Curtin, I believe you had an opinion on something simular to this?
>

My opinion (having had a few small edits to the PyCon COC) - A Code
prevents behaviors, because it sets rules up front, and actions become
simple - "you already knew".

PyCon Code of Conduct was adopted, and has been written as one of the best
around - adopted by other organizations.

ChiPy could easily take the PyCon COC as it's own, or review and make parts
specific - or do that as a set of iterations.
This is not hard - just need to make a decision to make it so.

Done?  Just decide - that's all.

RE:  Brian R.:  Best attitude ever, a trouper, keepin on keepin on.  Thank
you, Brian R.  Really.

- Yarko


>
> Finances, if you want them disclosed, how would you go about doing that?
> Please provide examples.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
>> >> to rent a bar (really).
>> >
>> >
>> > Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors
>> they can
>> > be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue
>> and it
>> > does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...  Also,
>> > recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
>> >> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
>> >
>> >
>> > I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you
>> offering
>> > to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
>> > donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that happen,
>> > btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless
>> people
>> > are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.
>> >
>> > I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Chicago mailing list
>> > Chicago at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants
>>
>> I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -Joseph Curtin
> http://www.jbcurtin.com
> <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
> @jbcurtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From matt.foster.c at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:12:21 2014
From: matt.foster.c at gmail.com (Matt Foster)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:12:21 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>

I also suggest the Geek Feminism wiki as a source of info on the whys and
hows of adopting a code of conduct.

->
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy_resources




On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It sounds like this thread has two discussions. One about a Code of
>> Conduct and one about Financing the cost of Chipy.
>>
>> If I'm overstepping my place in the next few lines, do let me know. I've
>> been skimming this discussion for the past few days.
>> There should be a Code of Conduct, Sheila, can you spearhead that? Brian
>> Curtin, I believe you had an opinion on something simular to this?
>>
>
> My opinion (having had a few small edits to the PyCon COC) - A Code
> prevents behaviors, because it sets rules up front, and actions become
> simple - "you already knew".
>
> PyCon Code of Conduct was adopted, and has been written as one of the best
> around - adopted by other organizations.
>
> ChiPy could easily take the PyCon COC as it's own, or review and make
> parts specific - or do that as a set of iterations.
> This is not hard - just need to make a decision to make it so.
>
> Done?  Just decide - that's all.
>
> RE:  Brian R.:  Best attitude ever, a trouper, keepin on keepin on.  Thank
> you, Brian R.  Really.
>
> - Yarko
>
>
>>
>> Finances, if you want them disclosed, how would you go about doing that?
>> Please provide examples.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand dollars
>>> >> to rent a bar (really).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors
>>> they can
>>> > be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue
>>> and it
>>> > does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...  Also,
>>> > recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've never
>>> >> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you
>>> offering
>>> > to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
>>> > donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that
>>> happen,
>>> > btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless
>>> people
>>> > are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.
>>> >
>>> > I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants
>>>
>>> I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Joseph Curtin
>> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
>> @jbcurtin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 22:14:41 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:14:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpX3U-=wztk6tJpp1PMmUEe31B9wXQCn-V6BfsYXav_ig@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Don Sheu <donald at caa.columbia.edu> wrote:

> As far as code of conduct goes, has there been a problem? A fast fix might
> be adopt the PyCon or Python Software Foundation Cod of Conduct.
>

A couple of things about this specific point...

There doesn't need to be a problem for a code of conduct to be a "good
thing." We went over this a lot back when PyCon implemented a CoC because
it wasn't a reaction, but a proactive step. From every communication medium
possible, we heard it from everyone that no one did anything, there are no
current problems, can't we all just be nice, we're actually all nice, etc.

If you know anything about the last few PyCons, specifically the instance
relating to the dongle comment, you can probably imagine what a debacle
that would have been with no stated code or guidelines in place. I know
this to be especially true because I was checking the @pycon twitter
mentions in the staff office, saw the tweet go out that kicked that
situation off, knew where they were located, and begun our stated processes
(another person possibly on this list was also involved). If we had to
handle that situation on the fly, I like to think we'd handle it well, but
who knows? What if we had to handle two situations? Would we have done them
the same way?

The same goes for the community code of conduct that I wrote for the PSF,
which is now in place for actions within the Foundation itself. Its use is
growing and is soon to be something all members of the Foundation's new
organizational structure will need to agree to adhere to. I had to fight
the same battles with a lot of people of the document, about how this
wasn't written in reaction to anything, but to be used as a signal that
we're good people. It puts the regular, normal, nice behaviors our
community is known for on paper, and it holds us to them.

A specific example of why I wanted to write that document was that I've
talked to many people over the years about getting involved with core
development on the python-dev list, or attending the python-dev sprints at
PyCon. A lot of people see Linus Torvalds LKML emails where he tears
someone's head off, and they think that's what we do on python-dev. They
follow the discussion of those incidents on HN/reddit and see that people
love it and think Linus is cool for treating people that way. Python-dev
has never even come close to that, but there's no indication that we're not
like that, and there's no indication that we *won't* be like that, so
people don't get end up getting involved.

If anyone is interested, here are the documents in question. I have
opinions on their use, but I'll save those for another discussion on
actually implementing them, whenever that time comes. Keep in mind that the
PyCon document is very specific to in-person events and it should only be
used for such a thing. It's not appropriate as a cover-all CoC.

https://us.pycon.org/2014/about/code-of-conduct/
http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
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From paul at paulmayassociates.com  Tue Feb 11 21:09:31 2014
From: paul at paulmayassociates.com (Paul May)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:09:31 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
Message-ID: <516982351925839@198.154.215.62:26>


+1

I'll volunteer to drink beer at the next meeting to show my support , 

Thanks Brian. 

Paul

President

v 708-479-1111

c 312-925-1294

Paul May & Associates, Inc. (PMA)

paul at paulmayassociates.com 

link up http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates 

like us on http://www.facebook.com/paulmayassociates

Search over 100 real jobs www.paulmayassociates.com 

 

Note:- If you do not wish to receive emails from Paul May & Associates,

please send an email to remove at paulmayassociates.com and put REMOVE in the Subject line.

 




----- Original Message ----- 

To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>

From: Daniel Griffin <dgriff1 at gmail.com>

Sent: 2/11/2014 2:04:19 PM

Subject: Re: [Chicago] Really??!!





Agreed and I always thought Brian Ray did a great job with it all anyways.




On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com> wrote:


Personally I enjoy Chipy meetings as an opportunity to meet with Python software developers, learn new things, and discuss software development and technology. I attended every Chipy North meeting (and presented at two of them) and wish I could make it to the ones in the city - so I'm also grateful for videos of those meetings.



I don't have a problem with how Chipy is organized or run - I'm just grateful it exists and that people do step up and do all the work behind the scenes to organize and run it and the meetings.




I don't care about any money, who (if anyone) gets paid or how much, codes of conduct, bylaws, not for profit statuses, etc. This group is too small and the amounts of money are too trivial to worry about. It is only through the hard work of a few people that it exists for the rest of our benefit.




Let's focus on Python and Users here in the Chicago Python Users Group.




Best Regards,
 Steve
 Blogs: http://agilitynerd.com/  http://tech.agilitynerd.com/
 Dog Agility Search: http://googility.com/
 Dog Agility Courses: http://agilitycourses.com/
http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd

_______________________________________________
 Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

(The following links were included with this email:)
mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://www.facebook.com/paulmayassociates

http://www.paulmayassociates.com/

mailto:steve at agilitynerd.com

http://agilitynerd.com/

http://tech.agilitynerd.com/

http://googility.com/

http://agilitycourses.com/

http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd

mailto:Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



(The following links were included with this email:)
mailto:paul at paulmayassociates.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmayassociates

http://www.facebook.com/paulmayassociates

http://www.paulmayassociates.com/

mailto:steve at agilitynerd.com

http://agilitynerd.com/

http://tech.agilitynerd.com/

http://googility.com/

http://agilitycourses.com/

http://www.facebook.com/AgilityNerd

mailto:Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:18:27 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:18:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpX3U-=wztk6tJpp1PMmUEe31B9wXQCn-V6BfsYXav_ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpX3U-=wztk6tJpp1PMmUEe31B9wXQCn-V6BfsYXav_ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vfaYH9iWC-CdToGMy79BqRfMK8nfjbHFSS2nRNvLr82Q@mail.gmail.com>

https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
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From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 22:18:45 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:18:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter:
>
> You are wrong.
> http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/nfp11245.pdf
> The reason I let it lapse is because we (not just me) are in active talks
> with the Python Software Foundation to have them open a bank account for us.
> It has not happened yet but it should have and will.

For the record, this hasn't been brought to the PSF board's attention,
nor has it come up to the PSF Treasurer.

From shekay at pobox.com  Tue Feb 11 22:20:02 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:20:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_ra85Os5i+nU2+0GNeOEG2jDmgkA7i9q8-N4CauwVxi4dw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> If I'm overstepping my place in the next few lines, do let me know. I've
>> been skimming this discussion for the past few days.
>> There should be a Code of Conduct, Sheila, can you spearhead that? Brian
>> Curtin, I believe you had an opinion on something simular to this?
>>
>
> My opinion (having had a few small edits to the PyCon COC) - A Code
> prevents behaviors, because it sets rules up front, and actions become
> simple - "you already knew".
>
> PyCon Code of Conduct was adopted, and has been written as one of the best
> around - adopted by other organizations.
>
> ChiPy could easily take the PyCon COC as it's own, or review and make
> parts specific - or do that as a set of iterations.
> This is not hard - just need to make a decision to make it so.
>
> Done?  Just decide - that's all.
>

My experience with CoC was that I didn't have one for the first workshop
because it didn't occur to me that we needed one. Something came up, and I
realized that having a CoC in place would have been helpful. I obsessed
over making sure everything was handled properly, I wanted to be fair, I
wanted to make sure I understood everything -- in hindsight, having
something in place would have made everything run smoother.

Things worked outl. The person I asked not to return respected our wishes.

Here is what we settled on for the workshop. It has some specific language
about running a workshop.
https://openhatch.org/wiki/Chicago_Python_Workshop/Code_of_Conduct

I do really admire Chicago FreeGeek's code. It's short and to the point. It
has some specifics about that group that don't exactly fit -- we don't have
staff, for example.
https://github.com/freegeekchicago/fgc-docs/blob/master/code-of-conduct.md

When working the details for the workshop CoC, we looked at the Chicago
FreeGeek code as well as Pycon US and Pycon CAs code.


-- 
sheila
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From asl2 at pobox.com  Tue Feb 11 22:20:28 2014
From: asl2 at pobox.com (Aaron Lav)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:20:28 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rbes++jBef6uAgpg0fpubvXDPbahM7T-t6WuePFOx8-bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140211212027.GA28117@panix.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 02:08:05PM -0600, sheila miguez wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Steve Schwarz <steve at agilitynerd.com>wrote:
> 
> You have the luxory of not caring about a code of conduct for group
> activities, but I had to kick someone out of future Chicago Python
> Workshops and Python Office Hours because they harassed one of my attendees.

Jesse Noller wrote a posting I found useful on the PSF's requirement
for a Code of Conduct:
http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct

I would certainly support Chipy creating one to cover our own needs.

       Aaron (asl2 at pobox.com)

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:23:06 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:23:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>

I am sorry, Brian. You are wrong.  I just forward you my email detailing my
request to take 501c donations to PSF.
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From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 22:27:36 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:27:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwrvLmMM7BOxFe2A1aMLybw5KJmeKoiHmsyrZrctYOZv5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sorry, Brian. You are wrong.  I just forward you my email detailing my
> request to take 501c donations to PSF.

I have been on the board for two years now and at no point has a
request come across the table to setup ChiPy with fiscal sponsorship
under the PSF umbrella. Kurt Kaiser confirmed this.

What you sent me has something to do with domain registration/transfer
and how when you filed for the non-profit status that you listed me as
a board member.

From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 22:31:38 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:31:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwyp=RyiVZ2MkoMVZxRZqXn+r+QT618odxE5iur7Q4eYgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Don Sheu <donald at caa.columbia.edu> wrote:

> Peter Fein, a dissolved corporation in most jurisdictions can be
> reinstated. It requires a filing to bring matters up to date and some form
> of a fee. Maintaining any form of a corporation is asking for another tax
> return every year. Without help, it's very common that filings are missed
> and status may lapse. It's why many lean startup disciples recommend
> holding off on a legal form until there's a need to take in investment
> money from a formal VC.
>

Apologies for being misinformed about reincorporation. Seeing as we've
continued to collect money, filing a tax return would be exact reason that
lapsed registration is problematic. Did a return get filed last year?
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From adam at adamforsyth.net  Tue Feb 11 22:33:36 2014
From: adam at adamforsyth.net (Adam Forsyth)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:33:36 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABrs+N9rf8-a85ThvY699+DgrXSHvqRB6HHPP3D1YzobpkLm9Q@mail.gmail.com>

I would strongly support adopting an existing code of conduct by reference,
so that we get one that is thought through and community vetted without
having to spend too much time on the specifics.

I'd vote for the PyCon code of conduct (
https://us.pycon.org/2014/about/code-of-conduct/ or
https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md),
as the PSF code of conduct seems too minimal (
http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/).

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Matt Foster <matt.foster.c at gmail.com>wrote:

> I also suggest the Geek Feminism wiki as a source of info on the whys and
> hows of adopting a code of conduct.
>
> ->
> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy_resources
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> It sounds like this thread has two discussions. One about a Code of
>>> Conduct and one about Financing the cost of Chipy.
>>>
>>> If I'm overstepping my place in the next few lines, do let me know. I've
>>> been skimming this discussion for the past few days.
>>> There should be a Code of Conduct, Sheila, can you spearhead that? Brian
>>> Curtin, I believe you had an opinion on something simular to this?
>>>
>>
>> My opinion (having had a few small edits to the PyCon COC) - A Code
>> prevents behaviors, because it sets rules up front, and actions become
>> simple - "you already knew".
>>
>> PyCon Code of Conduct was adopted, and has been written as one of the
>> best around - adopted by other organizations.
>>
>> ChiPy could easily take the PyCon COC as it's own, or review and make
>> parts specific - or do that as a set of iterations.
>> This is not hard - just need to make a decision to make it so.
>>
>> Done?  Just decide - that's all.
>>
>> RE:  Brian R.:  Best attitude ever, a trouper, keepin on keepin on.
>>  Thank you, Brian R.  Really.
>>
>> - Yarko
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Finances, if you want them disclosed, how would you go about doing that?
>>> Please provide examples.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I have heard some rather disturbing complaints about finances.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It's not a small amount of money, we're talking a few thousand
>>>> dollars
>>>> >> to rent a bar (really).
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Our meetings can be expensive at times. When we don't have sponsors
>>>> they can
>>>> > be between $5-$10 per head. I am already working on next months venue
>>>> and it
>>>> > does cost if you want free food, a roof over our head, and ...  Also,
>>>> > recall, we send three students to PyCon that year.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And how would we know what the finances were to begin with? I've
>>>> never
>>>> >> seen a budget, and as far as I know no one else has either.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I offered to share that when I opened the account. Again, are you
>>>> offering
>>>> > to become treasurer? Have you heard any complaints from anyone who has
>>>> > donated to ChiPy? I have done most of that leg work to make that
>>>> happen,
>>>> > btw. We will be sending out a survey shortly, but like I said (unless
>>>> people
>>>> > are lying) the majority of people who attend ChiPy are happy with it.
>>>> >
>>>> > I do apologize for indicating you might be trolling, Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Chicago mailing list
>>>> > Chicago at python.org
>>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants
>>>>
>>>> I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Joseph Curtin
>>> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>>>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
>>> @jbcurtin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jordanb at hafd.org  Tue Feb 11 22:37:50 2014
From: jordanb at hafd.org (Jordan Bettis)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:37:50 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>

On 02/11/2014 02:25 PM, Peter Fein wrote:
> Brian-
> 
> I'm not just trolling, and I resent the accusation that my concerns

You're not *just* trolling.

So you're multitasking, eh?


From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 22:38:05 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:38:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CABrs+N9rf8-a85ThvY699+DgrXSHvqRB6HHPP3D1YzobpkLm9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABrs+N9rf8-a85ThvY699+DgrXSHvqRB6HHPP3D1YzobpkLm9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpGf2BE7QfaskndB1bWFurQLqU2V78pqYQTZ_4OAuU8CQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Adam Forsyth <adam at adamforsyth.net> wrote:
> I would strongly support adopting an existing code of conduct by reference,
> so that we get one that is thought through and community vetted without
> having to spend too much time on the specifics.
>
> I'd vote for the PyCon code of conduct
> (https://us.pycon.org/2014/about/code-of-conduct/ or
> https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md),
> as the PSF code of conduct seems too minimal
> (http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/).

See Don's thread, but they're not interchangeable.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:41:34 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:41:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwrvLmMM7BOxFe2A1aMLybw5KJmeKoiHmsyrZrctYOZv5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrvLmMM7BOxFe2A1aMLybw5KJmeKoiHmsyrZrctYOZv5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tk_4SPhVJphB9=ZFYyGxFH2uurZP31j+vd9hHbA50cvA@mail.gmail.com>

Ooops, sent you the wrong email. Just resent. Asheesh Laroia was helping
with the matter. I am not sure if he or Ned took the request through the
proper channels? But hey, Brian, your on the PSF board, can't you help us
out and send this through the channels and help us get this resolved.

Regardless, the reason i want PSF to be involved is I want to make the
contributions tax deductible.  There are Pros and Cons.
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From pete at wearpants.org  Tue Feb 11 22:41:48 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:41:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dude, I'm ex-Anon, this doesn't begin to reach the level of trolling. :-)

Joking aside, these were honest, straightforward questions and I think
we all deserve an answer.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> On 02/11/2014 02:25 PM, Peter Fein wrote:
>> Brian-
>>
>> I'm not just trolling, and I resent the accusation that my concerns
>
> You're not *just* trolling.
>
> So you're multitasking, eh?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 22:48:34 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:48:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tk_4SPhVJphB9=ZFYyGxFH2uurZP31j+vd9hHbA50cvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrvLmMM7BOxFe2A1aMLybw5KJmeKoiHmsyrZrctYOZv5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38tk_4SPhVJphB9=ZFYyGxFH2uurZP31j+vd9hHbA50cvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwp6UJEe-6X7YHkc4PCmLd-mgZQTw=z5cCVW6ia2oeJkUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ooops, sent you the wrong email. Just resent. Asheesh Laroia was helping
> with the matter. I am not sure if he or Ned took the request through the
> proper channels? But hey, Brian, your on the PSF board, can't you help us
> out and send this through the channels and help us get this resolved.

Ok, this is now cleared up. Neither Asheesh nor Ned can act on this,
it'll have to be someone(s) from within this group making the request
to the PSF Treasurer. Perhaps it's better figured out as the first
step after a discussion of organization/structure/whatever else is
going on.

I can certainly assist with pushing this through when the time comes.

From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:49:05 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:49:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpGf2BE7QfaskndB1bWFurQLqU2V78pqYQTZ_4OAuU8CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABrs+N9rf8-a85ThvY699+DgrXSHvqRB6HHPP3D1YzobpkLm9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpGf2BE7QfaskndB1bWFurQLqU2V78pqYQTZ_4OAuU8CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=P+d9wzNkao8OWkhHsks_BNqgnhmuEUEuSUUK=nGZnZxjw@mail.gmail.com>

forward!  Collaborating!  /me happy!


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Adam Forsyth <adam at adamforsyth.net>
> wrote:
> > I would strongly support adopting an existing code of conduct by
> reference,
> > so that we get one that is thought through and community vetted without
> > having to spend too much time on the specifics.
> >
> > I'd vote for the PyCon code of conduct
> > (https://us.pycon.org/2014/about/code-of-conduct/ or
> >
> https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md
> ),
> > as the PSF code of conduct seems too minimal
> > (http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/).
>
> See Don's thread, but they're not interchangeable.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 22:52:34 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>

For the record, there are no secrets here. Although, it will take me some
time to compile (find) the requested information.

There are things said that are not productive, I guess why the word
trolling comes to mind.

On a side, defamation of ChiPy will not be tolerated even if it requires
banning users or worse. Most organizations would not tolerate false,
injuring and unprivileged claimst to be made in a public forum.
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From brian at python.org  Tue Feb 11 23:04:48 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:04:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On a side, defamation of ChiPy will not be tolerated even if it requires
> banning users or worse. Most organizations would not tolerate false,
> injuring and unprivileged claimst to be made in a public forum.

Please be very, very careful with this, as far as mailing list things
goes. I'm not taking any side here, just being a messenger, but
python.org mailing lists such as this one are run on PSF-owned
infrastructure, and actions like banning people "or worse" should be
taken with extreme care.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 23:06:19 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:06:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwp6UJEe-6X7YHkc4PCmLd-mgZQTw=z5cCVW6ia2oeJkUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwptbOF2-6zJjsWH8GUP7On1Jzqcf8T416S8iktoeZnBQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sviPLfv=2F3cgPHgoBVdb4XXapx4pT=_L9W+p+oChS-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwrvLmMM7BOxFe2A1aMLybw5KJmeKoiHmsyrZrctYOZv5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38tk_4SPhVJphB9=ZFYyGxFH2uurZP31j+vd9hHbA50cvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwp6UJEe-6X7YHkc4PCmLd-mgZQTw=z5cCVW6ia2oeJkUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tXrKAvWLov3g3M80ASSvaQFo7Jav-uLhA6-HuV4WojGg@mail.gmail.com>

Brian, I already saw your other email and initialized the request.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 23:08:21 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:08:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Brian, I assure you we would only do that if our legal counsel (which we do
now have) tells us to do this. They are reviewing everything said so far
and it will take some time. For this reason, we probably should table the
organization discussion until things settle down. Let's reschedule that
conversation for March/April. We have been operating this way for a long
time so I imagine we will survive a couple more months.
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 23:47:00 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:47:00 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PLogxT6RKOm51OgGbwL=iF8wUmrcmRiJvAsS1DTtuuBag@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian, I assure you we would only do that if our legal counsel (which we
> do now have) tells us to do this. They are reviewing everything said so far
> and it will take some time. For this reason, we probably should table the
> organization discussion until things settle down. Let's reschedule that
> conversation for March/April. We have been operating this way for a long
> time so I imagine we will survive a couple more months.
>

I like this, since a lot of topics / potential issues were raised, and it
will be nice to have some time to digest, think about things (as a simple
participant) before heading in "with a voice".   That, and - who wants to
mess up Valentine's Day Weekend with a "hot" Thurs. night meeting??!! ;-)


>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 23:48:23 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:48:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PKMAhtpak0x4Q0Okk+AhLhAhFzAQxmkK_-qPJbxgBZhag@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian, I assure you we would only do that if our legal counsel (which we
> do now have) tells us to do this. They are reviewing everything said so far
> and it will take some time. For this reason, we probably should table the
> organization discussion until things settle down. Let's reschedule that
> conversation for March/April. We have been operating this way for a long
> time so I imagine we will survive a couple more months.
>

Keep in mind that April is PyCon  (hopefully there will be some people from
Chicago ... not in Chicago! :-) )


>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From pete at wearpants.org  Wed Feb 12 00:14:38 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:14:38 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwznNKx7C81ZEb_1f+Tjm5h=M-gzsU32n_ZGwO2ZHWME7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> For the record, there are no secrets here. Although, it will take me some
> time to compile (find) the requested information.

That's rich, seeing as you've refused to provide even the most basic
information (which is required to be public) about board members &
bylaws, etc..

> On a side, defamation of ChiPy will not be tolerated even if it requires
> banning users or worse. Most organizations would not tolerate false,
> injuring and unprivileged claimst to be made in a public forum.

I'm guessing this is directed at me, given the generally threatening
tone you've been taking in off-list emails.

Tread carefully.

From pete at wearpants.org  Wed Feb 12 00:17:48 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:17:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwy4csRp8EOZB9=JNicMf_pFiObJPYMKN38TUuA6bTnruQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wait, what? We've retained legal counsel just now? Given that it's
your brother, I think that's an entirely inappropriate decision to
being making on behalf of the group at this point in time.

For fuck's sake, it's a fucking user group, chill out, there's no need
to be threatening legal action.

also LOL

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian, I assure you we would only do that if our legal counsel (which we do
> now have) tells us to do this. They are reviewing everything said so far and
> it will take some time. For this reason, we probably should table the
> organization discussion until things settle down. Let's reschedule that
> conversation for March/April. We have been operating this way for a long
> time so I imagine we will survive a couple more months.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 00:26:14 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:26:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwy4csRp8EOZB9=JNicMf_pFiObJPYMKN38TUuA6bTnruQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwy4csRp8EOZB9=JNicMf_pFiObJPYMKN38TUuA6bTnruQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38v9nrHQxB4R+4nf9YMu4mdeuoY2aQ1eEvN8Qw27us+Fbg@mail.gmail.com>

You have a potty mouth. Please don't post like that here.
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 00:37:29 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:37:29 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>

So, not to be a dick. but that meme sucks man.  governance, positions and
elections may be boring, but they're also a necessity in the real world.
 I'm not for electing anyone to anything at the moment, its not really
necessary, but just shitting on the conversation from the list recently
doesn't really help.  As to talks not being interesting or well prepared,
well....its an organic user group, and that means less polish and what
might not be interesting to you (or whoever happens to be complaining to
you) could very well be incredibly interesting to someone else.

I've spent a good deal of time visiting other user groups around the city
(ruby, postgres, js, etc) and this one is .....unique.  The average level
of knowledge (computation/maths/tech in general) is simply higher, the
people are friendly, there's a much higher concentration of academics (cool
to me) and professional scientists (also very cool to me).  I'm a nobody in
the python world, literally. I've been to a few pycons, etc, but there
are *multiple
*dedicated python core devs in chicago, and sometimes they even come to
meetings and its nice to be able to meet them in person and chat.   If we
need to do some seemingly tedious work
(volunteering/bylaws/fill-in-necessary-organizational-task) *at the
meeting* where
its transparent and we can avoid the sort of dust-ups that come as a result
of email exchanges on a list then lets do that.  Its worth it.

+1 for group discussion on governance.



On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:

> -1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list lately:
>
>
> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg
>
> Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are not very
> interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could spend 30 minutes
> coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems to be short again this
> month.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>
>> Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running
>> on?
>>
>> I digress.
>>
>> -1 for elections.
>> +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>>
>> JP
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are my discussion votes:
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and
>>> I added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>>>
>>> Elections Thursday, -1.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of
>>>> the idea.
>>>>
>>>> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so
>>>> someone else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Brian
>>>>
>>>> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
>>>> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Brian Ray
>>>> @brianray
>>>> (773) 669-7717
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> sheila
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JP Bader
>> Principal
>> Zavteq, Inc.
>> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
>> 608.692.2468
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 00:42:44 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:42:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Really??!!
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=P+d9wzNkao8OWkhHsks_BNqgnhmuEUEuSUUK=nGZnZxjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKY2=TdALYztQw=xjHu9P-wNbhmnL=z7FyobQ-tz42srRxuF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwz-+qE4R3Vwr0SdRvb2djgyftEYZBdCdd3TVta9h+1z-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s0EXAyeuAOWv_yEStM4v=vqTaTyJA+HfSQC21hNq1q-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwwJYBBcgbUsMNtOF4Lf0bvZEjnyNLEMj5EHsAxey=3_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSihxsFLOH2f0qvyLWKCWfzTowZoLJ2g57QmPHoGVORAsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PKJnoj4-9wnSDKeAo1EcXa6BzsLxHpw1rPkoO3oa2f_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD7Gx8AUnKup5VLrfdSpPaDsQS14fTsRayi35OwPEUW79cYQMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABrs+N9rf8-a85ThvY699+DgrXSHvqRB6HHPP3D1YzobpkLm9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpGf2BE7QfaskndB1bWFurQLqU2V78pqYQTZ_4OAuU8CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=P+d9wzNkao8OWkhHsks_BNqgnhmuEUEuSUUK=nGZnZxjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+ZRr=DrUmCndmu8vSjLG-9sqXN65Top1n04zbn4foQtJQ@mail.gmail.com>

also strongly support adopting a code of conduct


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> forward!  Collaborating!  /me happy!
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Adam Forsyth <adam at adamforsyth.net>
>> wrote:
>> > I would strongly support adopting an existing code of conduct by
>> reference,
>> > so that we get one that is thought through and community vetted without
>> > having to spend too much time on the specifics.
>> >
>> > I'd vote for the PyCon code of conduct
>> > (https://us.pycon.org/2014/about/code-of-conduct/ or
>> >
>> https://github.com/python/pycon-code-of-conduct/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md
>> ),
>> > as the PSF code of conduct seems too minimal
>> > (http://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/).
>>
>> See Don's thread, but they're not interchangeable.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From japhy at pearachute.com  Wed Feb 12 02:36:26 2014
From: japhy at pearachute.com (Japhy Bartlett)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:36:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>

No for real, what if you wrote python instead of legalese with your finite
time.

What is the direst, apocalyptic, worst case scenario if Chipy doesn't have
a code of conduct?

It's a meme because a statistically significant number of people think this
is funny.

I'm saying, honestly, in my opinion, the general metric for success of a
recurring event is attendance, and a group legalese discussion is not going
to bring the boys to the yard.

I have a dream, that one day, this list is about python again.

Cheers,

Japhy

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
wrote:

> So, not to be a dick. but that meme sucks man.  governance, positions and
> elections may be boring, but they're also a necessity in the real world.
>  I'm not for electing anyone to anything at the moment, its not really
> necessary, but just shitting on the conversation from the list recently
> doesn't really help.  As to talks not being interesting or well prepared,
> well....its an organic user group, and that means less polish and what
> might not be interesting to you (or whoever happens to be complaining to
> you) could very well be incredibly interesting to someone else.
>
> I've spent a good deal of time visiting other user groups around the city
> (ruby, postgres, js, etc) and this one is .....unique.  The average level
> of knowledge (computation/maths/tech in general) is simply higher, the
> people are friendly, there's a much higher concentration of academics (cool
> to me) and professional scientists (also very cool to me).  I'm a nobody in
> the python world, literally. I've been to a few pycons, etc, but there are *multiple
> *dedicated python core devs in chicago, and sometimes they even come to
> meetings and its nice to be able to meet them in person and chat.   If we
> need to do some seemingly tedious work
> (volunteering/bylaws/fill-in-necessary-organizational-task) *at the
> meeting* where its transparent and we can avoid the sort of dust-ups that
> come as a result of email exchanges on a list then lets do that.  Its worth
> it.
>
> +1 for group discussion on governance.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:
>
> -1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list lately:
>
>
> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg
>
> Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are not very
> interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could spend 30 minutes
> coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems to be short again this
> month.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>
> Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running on?
>
> I digress.
>
> -1 for elections.
> +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>
> JP
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> Here are my discussion votes:
>
>
> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and I
> added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>
> Elections Thursday, -1.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
> idea.
>
> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 02:39:37 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:39:37 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMg+xPpmyQEE_QG-n9j3+rMVzm-ra_o3hfUVXjYXhF+g8A@mail.gmail.com>

Japhy: "...bring the boys to the yard."

+1 for milkshakes




On Wednesday, February 12, 2014, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>
wrote:

> No for real, what if you wrote python instead of legalese with your finite
> time.
>
> What is the direst, apocalyptic, worst case scenario if Chipy doesn't have
> a code of conduct?
>
> It's a meme because a statistically significant number of people think
> this is funny.
>
> I'm saying, honestly, in my opinion, the general metric for success of a
> recurring event is attendance, and a group legalese discussion is not going
> to bring the boys to the yard.
>
> I have a dream, that one day, this list is about python again.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Japhy
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> So, not to be a dick. but that meme sucks man.  governance, positions and
> elections may be boring, but they're also a necessity in the real world.
>  I'm not for electing anyone to anything at the moment, its not really
> necessary, but just shitting on the conversation from the list recently
> doesn't really help.  As to talks not being interesting or well prepared,
> well....its an organic user group, and that means less polish and what
> might not be interesting to you (or whoever happens to be complaining to
> you) could very well be incredibly interesting to someone else.
>
> I've spent a good deal of time visiting other user groups around the city
> (ruby, postgres, js, etc) and this one is .....unique.  The average level
> of knowledge (computation/maths/tech in general) is simply higher, the
> people are friendly, there's a much higher concentration of academics (cool
> to me) and professional scientists (also very cool to me).  I'm a nobody in
> the python world, literally. I've been to a few pycons, etc, but there are *multiple
> *dedicated python core devs in chicago, and sometimes they even come to
> meetings and its nice to be able to meet them in person and chat.   If we
> need to do some seemingly tedious work
> (volunteering/bylaws/fill-in-necessary-organizational-task) *at the
> meeting* where its transparent and we can avoid the sort of dust-ups that
> come as a result of email exchanges on a list then lets do that.  Its worth
> it.
>
> +1 for group discussion on governance.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:
>
> -1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list lately:
>
>
> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg
>
> Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are not very
> interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could spend 30 minutes
> coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems to be short again this
> month.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>
> Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running on?
>
> I digress.
>
> -1 for elections.
> +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>
> JP
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> Here are my discussion votes:
>
>
> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and I
> added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>
> Elections Thursday, -1.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
> idea.
>
> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>
> Cheers, Brian
>
> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>

-- 

-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 03:34:06 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:34:06 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PLJhjJ2GFtc4UNjPzTTxk-UECucD8Sw3cKQVAK=D_JRPw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:

> No for real, what if you wrote python instead of legalese with your finite
> time.
>
> What is the direst, apocalyptic, worst case scenario if Chipy doesn't have
> a code of conduct?
>

Japhy - this is -0- zilch / nada time consumer.

It's a simple decision about who we chose to be.

Period.


>
> It's a meme because a statistically significant number of people think
> this is funny.
>

All models are always wrong.   (Sometimes they are useful.)

The naivet? (or arrogance) of ignorance may find this funny.

That is not a useful model, for me.

I don't care to have that guide nor direct how we choose to be.

I don't care.

Let them laugh.
They probably laugh
at other things I don't find funny, too.
That's their prerogative.

That's not guidance for me.

I'm for:  Welcoming, open, friendly, accepting, helpful, of service.

I'm Not for: confrontative, argumentative, laughing-at-expense-of-others,
missing-cool-design-subtelties, etc.


> I'm saying, honestly, in my opinion, the general metric for success of a
> recurring event is attendance, and a group legalese discussion is not going
> to bring the boys to the yard.
>

At PyCon, we invite women, and children, and students, and LGBT friends,
... people from the world over...

I want to be kind, respectful, inviting, helpful to all there,
and have them come home and not expect less.

My kids.
My friends.

The smirking?
They have their dorms for that.
Or their own living rooms.
Or other pubs.

I may even laugh at some stuff with them.

But not this.




> I have a dream, that one day, this list is about python again.
>

I have a dream - that one day, this list will be about python _community_
 (I'm not sure "again" is needed here - this still is).

Cheers,
Yarko



>
> Cheers,
>
> Japhy
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So, not to be a dick. but that meme sucks man.  governance, positions and
>> elections may be boring, but they're also a necessity in the real world.
>>  I'm not for electing anyone to anything at the moment, its not really
>> necessary, but just shitting on the conversation from the list recently
>> doesn't really help.  As to talks not being interesting or well prepared,
>> well....its an organic user group, and that means less polish and what
>> might not be interesting to you (or whoever happens to be complaining to
>> you) could very well be incredibly interesting to someone else.
>>
>> I've spent a good deal of time visiting other user groups around the city
>> (ruby, postgres, js, etc) and this one is .....unique.  The average level
>> of knowledge (computation/maths/tech in general) is simply higher, the
>> people are friendly, there's a much higher concentration of academics (cool
>> to me) and professional scientists (also very cool to me).  I'm a nobody in
>> the python world, literally. I've been to a few pycons, etc, but there are *multiple
>> *dedicated python core devs in chicago, and sometimes they even come to
>> meetings and its nice to be able to meet them in person and chat.   If we
>> need to do some seemingly tedious work
>> (volunteering/bylaws/fill-in-necessary-organizational-task) *at the
>> meeting* where its transparent and we can avoid the sort of dust-ups
>> that come as a result of email exchanges on a list then lets do that.  Its
>> worth it.
>>
>> +1 for group discussion on governance.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:
>>
>> -1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list lately:
>>
>>
>> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg
>>
>> Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are not very
>> interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could spend 30 minutes
>> coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems to be short again this
>> month.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>>
>> Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are people running
>> on?
>>
>> I digress.
>>
>> -1 for elections.
>> +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>>
>> JP
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here are my discussion votes:
>>
>>
>> Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a good idea and
>> I added it to the agenda on chipy.org).
>>
>> Elections Thursday, -1.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Peter requested we talk about getting organized and I'm supportive of the
>> idea.
>>
>> So let's hold elections Thursday.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get stuck here so someone
>> else (Peter?) will have to run these if I don't make it.
>>
>> Cheers, Brian
>>
>> Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois listing. It's
>> already taken care of and has nothing to do with the bank account.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> sheila
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JP Bader
>> Principal
>> Zavteq, Inc.
>> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
>> 608.692.2468
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb 12 03:57:12 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:57:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com> wrote:
> No for real, what if you wrote python instead of legalese with your finite
> time.

What if we don't want to? I do that all day long.

> What is the direst, apocalyptic, worst case scenario if Chipy doesn't have a
> code of conduct?

It is completely dismantled because someone does something that gets
it blacklisted, booted from this infrastructure, without options for a
meeting space, without users, etc.

> I'm saying, honestly, in my opinion, the general metric for success of a
> recurring event is attendance, and a group legalese discussion is not going
> to bring the boys to the yard.

Maybe this whole discussion ends up with a complete failure of the
group, or maybe it ends up in a smashing success, but no discussion is
surely not the correct course of action. This sounds an awful lot like
when people say "JFDI" and "show me the code" without appreciating the
problem and just wanting a solution.

> I have a dream, that one day, this list is about python again.

Since we're using quotes: "If you build it, they will come."

If you just want this to be over with, filter the threads on your
client. comp.lang.python is 100% Python code discussion.

From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 04:35:45 2014
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:35:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52FAEC11.9020200@gmail.com>

Yup.  This meme sucks.

I've been going to ChiPy meetings since 2004, and I agree ChiPy is 
special among tech groups.
The issue of governance has come up before, and IIRC, we pretty much 
agreed that -- as intelligent
adults with common interests -- we could spontaneously auto-organize on 
a deliberately Anarchist model.

Back in the beginning, it was simple because there was no money involved.
Meeting space was always donated, web server donated, etc, etc.
The only place where "the State" got involved was the chipy.org domain 
name registration;
IMHO -- this is the only thing that pushed Brian (reluctantly) into 
becoming a sort of BDFL.
Things are more complicated today, because of the money that recruiters 
give us for food, subsidies we give
to students to go to PyCon, etc.
I support and applaud Brian's move to hand off as much of this as is 
practical to the PSF.

sheila asked:

    "Other python user groups have a good model of governance and are
    transparent, for example, the Boston Python User Group. They have
    multiple activities and their group is not just about one night a
    month. *I have felt that Chipy is more than just a group that meets
    once a month. Am I mistaken?*

IMHO, organizationally, that is all we are -- and that is a wonderful 
and beautiful thing.
Anarchy can work -- Intelligent people can create a POWERFUL community 
without "governance".
I believe that this is why ChiPy has grown and earned the reputation of 
being the best of all of the Python User's Groups.

I've been involved in lots of other interest groups, and I really 
believe that elections and "boards" just ruin them.
The only people who volunteer to take on the responsibilities of 
governance are arrogant or uninteresting,
or worse -- people who just want something to put on their otherwise 
pathetic resume.

We don't need a board to adopt a Code of Conduct.
+1 that we accept the PSF code.
*Anyone violating that code will be ignored or ridiculed.*

I searched my archive, remembering that back into 2002, Peter started a 
thread on this list about "Incorporating, etc.?":

    On 09/06/2012 04:07 PM, Peter Fein wrote:
     > Hi all-
     >
     > Looking for some advice/a howto on setting up a solo dev consulting
     > shop - getting a lot of inquiries, but my sense is that it's easier
     > for clients to pay corp-to-corp instead of a W2/1099. Need direction
     > on logistics - incorporation, billing, taxes, etc.. If anyone's got a
     > book/account/lawyer to recommend, I'd be grateful. Or if you just
    want
     > sit down for an hour and explain it to me, I'll make it worth your
     > while...

I can see that he learned all about it, and I think he is a bit 
over-enthusiastic about it all.
When he used the word "fraudulent" I think he crossed a line.

If it wasn't for his previous contributions to the community, I would 
move to ignore him.
Instead, I stop with this ridicule ;)
Maybe he wants to apologize or revise his wording ?

-Rob


On 02/11/2014 05:37 PM, Daniel Peters wrote:
> So, not to be a dick. but that meme sucks man.  governance, positions 
> and elections may be boring, but they're also a necessity in the real 
> world.  I'm not for electing anyone to anything at the moment, its not 
> really necessary, but just shitting on the conversation from the list 
> recently doesn't really help.  As to talks not being interesting or 
> well prepared, well....its an organic user group, and that means less 
> polish and what might not be interesting to you (or whoever happens to 
> be complaining to you) could very well be incredibly interesting to 
> someone else.
>
> I've spent a good deal of time visiting other user groups around the 
> city (ruby, postgres, js, etc) and this one is .....unique.  The 
> average level of knowledge (computation/maths/tech in general) is 
> simply higher, the people are friendly, there's a much higher 
> concentration of academics (cool to me) and professional scientists 
> (also very cool to me).  I'm a nobody in the python world, literally. 
> I've been to a few pycons, etc, but there are /multiple /dedicated 
> python core devs in chicago, and sometimes they even come to meetings 
> and its nice to be able to meet them in person and chat.   If we need 
> to do some seemingly tedious work 
> (volunteering/bylaws/fill-in-necessary-organizational-task) /at the 
> meeting/ where its transparent and we can avoid the sort of dust-ups 
> that come as a result of email exchanges on a list then lets do that. 
>  Its worth it.
>
> +1 for group discussion on governance.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com 
> <mailto:japhy at pearachute.com>> wrote:
>
>     -1 to elections, positions, governance, everything on this list
>     lately:
>
>     http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6890238a19f066b77cd019a1540447ce13036ca427bf1384555bfc847c51596a.jpg
>
>     Biggest criticism I consistently hear about Chipy: the talks are
>     not very interesting and not very well prepared.  Maybe you could
>     spend 30 minutes coming up with talk ideas, since the group seems
>     to be short again this month.
>
>
>
>     On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com
>     <mailto:jp at zavteq.com>> wrote:
>
>         Elections? What would we be electing? What platforms are
>         people running on?
>
>         I digress.
>
>         -1 for elections.
>         +1 for a discussion about our group's governance.
>
>         JP
>
>
>         On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM, sheila miguez
>         <shekay at pobox.com <mailto:shekay at pobox.com>> wrote:
>
>             Here are my discussion votes:
>
>
>             Pete running discussion about group governance, +1 (it's a
>             good idea and I added it to the agenda on chipy.org
>             <http://chipy.org>).
>
>             Elections Thursday, -1.
>
>
>             On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Brian Ray
>             <brianhray at gmail.com <mailto:brianhray at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Peter requested we talk about getting organized and
>                 I'm supportive of the idea.
>
>                 So let's hold elections Thursday.
>
>                 Unfortunately, I'm in Texas right now and might get
>                 stuck here so someone else (Peter?) will have to run
>                 these if I don't make it.
>
>                 Cheers, Brian
>
>                 Ps wouldn't worry to much about the state of Illinois
>                 listing. It's already taken care of and has nothing to
>                 do with the bank account.
>
>
>
>                 -- 
>                 Brian Ray
>                 @brianray
>                 (773) 669-7717 <tel:%28773%29%20669-7717>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Chicago mailing list
>                 Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>                 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
>             -- 
>             sheila
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             Chicago mailing list
>             Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>             https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
>         -- 
>         JP Bader
>         Principal
>         Zavteq, Inc.
>         @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com <mailto:jp at zavteq.com>
>         608.692.2468 <tel:608.692.2468>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Chicago mailing list
>         Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Chicago mailing list
>     Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

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From geoffbrown at comcast.net  Wed Feb 12 04:50:57 2014
From: geoffbrown at comcast.net (Geoff Brown)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:50:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>

I imagine I'm not alone in wondering why after ten years there is a 
level of urgency to develop a code of conduct
and have financial transparency that would warrant abandoning 
professional behavior?
Professional conduct would dictate that one bring up matters of 
reputation and performance in person and preferably
in private. What am I missing here??

May Guido help us if we do get a Code of Conduct.

Geoff Brown


On 2/11/2014 8:57 PM, Brian Curtin wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com> wrote:
>> No for real, what if you wrote python instead of legalese with your finite
>> time.
> What if we don't want to? I do that all day long.
>
>> What is the direst, apocalyptic, worst case scenario if Chipy doesn't have a
>> code of conduct?
> It is completely dismantled because someone does something that gets
> it blacklisted, booted from this infrastructure, without options for a
> meeting space, without users, etc.
>
>> I'm saying, honestly, in my opinion, the general metric for success of a
>> recurring event is attendance, and a group legalese discussion is not going
>> to bring the boys to the yard.
> Maybe this whole discussion ends up with a complete failure of the
> group, or maybe it ends up in a smashing success, but no discussion is
> surely not the correct course of action. This sounds an awful lot like
> when people say "JFDI" and "show me the code" without appreciating the
> problem and just wanting a solution.
>
>> I have a dream, that one day, this list is about python again.
> Since we're using quotes: "If you build it, they will come."
>
> If you just want this to be over with, filter the threads on your
> client. comp.lang.python is 100% Python code discussion.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>


From brian at python.org  Wed Feb 12 05:00:24 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:00:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Geoff Brown <geoffbrown at comcast.net> wrote:
> I imagine I'm not alone in wondering why after ten years there is a level of
> urgency to develop a code of conduct
> and have financial transparency that would warrant abandoning professional
> behavior?
> Professional conduct would dictate that one bring up matters of reputation
> and performance in person and preferably
> in private. What am I missing here??
>
> May Guido help us if we do get a Code of Conduct.

You're definitely not alone, but the state of open source software
communities is significantly different in 2014 than it was in 2004, or
so I'm told - I was a sophomore in college. It's a lot different from
2006 when I got involved.

PyCon operated for 10 years before a CoC came up, and now you would be
hard pressed to find a tech conference without one. If you find one,
I'm fairly certain it's under pressure to get a CoC. Recent diversity
efforts have been successful in forcing change across the community
when it comes to conduct, and it's only getting stronger.

The PSF operated for roughly the same time without a code, and now not
only are we extending that CoC out into the actions we take and things
we provide, the first check we do when evaluating grant proposals for
user groups, conferences, or requests to use our resources is if a
group has a code of conduct.

From sam.lahti at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 05:10:24 2014
From: sam.lahti at gmail.com (Samuel Lahti)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:10:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>
 <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM63y04Ux8e7mieEihNAC-VT4Y1UkA5eyWFNj6_gSJ5sVCJvGg@mail.gmail.com>

The question was not, why has chipy not operated with a CoC for 10 years,
the question was, what is motivating people to abandon professional
conduct. I'm seeing a lot of +1's for adopting generally accepted CoC's
On Feb 11, 2014 10:00 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Geoff Brown <geoffbrown at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > I imagine I'm not alone in wondering why after ten years there is a
> level of
> > urgency to develop a code of conduct
> > and have financial transparency that would warrant abandoning
> professional
> > behavior?
> > Professional conduct would dictate that one bring up matters of
> reputation
> > and performance in person and preferably
> > in private. What am I missing here??
> >
> > May Guido help us if we do get a Code of Conduct.
>
> You're definitely not alone, but the state of open source software
> communities is significantly different in 2014 than it was in 2004, or
> so I'm told - I was a sophomore in college. It's a lot different from
> 2006 when I got involved.
>
> PyCon operated for 10 years before a CoC came up, and now you would be
> hard pressed to find a tech conference without one. If you find one,
> I'm fairly certain it's under pressure to get a CoC. Recent diversity
> efforts have been successful in forcing change across the community
> when it comes to conduct, and it's only getting stronger.
>
> The PSF operated for roughly the same time without a code, and now not
> only are we extending that CoC out into the actions we take and things
> we provide, the first check we do when evaluating grant proposals for
> user groups, conferences, or requests to use our resources is if a
> group has a code of conduct.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From namusoke at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 12 05:22:39 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:22:39 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>,
 <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W569372456A12637876DEA1CA920@phx.gbl>

"Recent diversity
efforts have been successful in forcing change across the community
when it comes to conduct, and it's only getting stronger."

> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:00:24 -0600
> From: brian at python.org
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Geoff Brown <geoffbrown at comcast.net> wrote:
> > I imagine I'm not alone in wondering why after ten years there is a level of
> > urgency to develop a code of conduct
> > and have financial transparency that would warrant abandoning professional
> > behavior?
> > Professional conduct would dictate that one bring up matters of reputation
> > and performance in person and preferably
> > in private. What am I missing here??
> >
> > May Guido help us if we do get a Code of Conduct.
> 
> You're definitely not alone, but the state of open source software
> communities is significantly different in 2014 than it was in 2004, or
> so I'm told - I was a sophomore in college. It's a lot different from
> 2006 when I got involved.
> 
> PyCon operated for 10 years before a CoC came up, and now you would be
> hard pressed to find a tech conference without one. If you find one,
> I'm fairly certain it's under pressure to get a CoC. Recent diversity
> efforts have been successful in forcing change across the community
> when it comes to conduct, and it's only getting stronger.
> 
> The PSF operated for roughly the same time without a code, and now not
> only are we extending that CoC out into the actions we take and things
> we provide, the first check we do when evaluating grant proposals for
> user groups, conferences, or requests to use our resources is if a
> group has a code of conduct.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
 		 	   		  
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb 12 06:14:45 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 23:14:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAM63y04Ux8e7mieEihNAC-VT4Y1UkA5eyWFNj6_gSJ5sVCJvGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>
 <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y04Ux8e7mieEihNAC-VT4Y1UkA5eyWFNj6_gSJ5sVCJvGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwoZRWmLBMsBAy464bkH747YMcfFwS7qGs4R_8z0V+kyQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
> The question was not, why has chipy not operated with a CoC for 10 years,
> the question was, what is motivating people to abandon professional conduct.
> I'm seeing a lot of +1's for adopting generally accepted CoC's

Sorry, my eyes are drawn to CoC stuff today.

I don't have a good answer for why it's going this way. There are a
bunch of topics, a bunch of motivations, a bunch of everything. Add in
that it's all of varying degrees of contention, with varying levels of
information and knowledge out there. On top of that, some people don't
care, some care, and some care a lot. Add all of these dynamics
together and now we are where we are. It's not a great state to be in.

From pjh239 at cornell.edu  Wed Feb 12 06:27:49 2014
From: pjh239 at cornell.edu (Peter Halliday)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 23:27:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwoZRWmLBMsBAy464bkH747YMcfFwS7qGs4R_8z0V+kyQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHK-cCpqzfSrQrYROaHACyoqyRE0AOBaig-OgC501a1L8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpAOgQ_gh8DRtPaA6gScoUPYbTVK0JpB_7vsMq8+zt-xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEFA1.5060108@comcast.net>
 <CAD+XWwoAnbx8Hw+qmC8MJmjVssxy0wX1xPYtnaT6w7OkUEUadQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM63y04Ux8e7mieEihNAC-VT4Y1UkA5eyWFNj6_gSJ5sVCJvGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwoZRWmLBMsBAy464bkH747YMcfFwS7qGs4R_8z0V+kyQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F7EB7D0-BCB6-4744-8AAD-BD5A5745A94D@cornell.edu>

I just got here in Chicago in June and have attended ever month since. I certainly have been pleased with the group and the leadership in general.

I don't care about governance issues right now.  I care more about being social and promoting learning about Python.  I know there are practical needs for people to be concerned.  The only concern I have is that in my experience not everyone concerned about a problem is concerned about being a part of the solution.  Also people need to make sure that the burden placed on the organization is not so strong that people don't get involved when needed.

I also know that if the organization stops focusing on the social aspect and knowledge of python as the focus of meetings I'll (and I'm assuming others) may stop coming.

Peter Halliday



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 11, 2014, at 11:14 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Samuel Lahti <sam.lahti at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The question was not, why has chipy not operated with a CoC for 10 years,
>> the question was, what is motivating people to abandon professional conduct.
>> I'm seeing a lot of +1's for adopting generally accepted CoC's
> 
> Sorry, my eyes are drawn to CoC stuff today.
> 
> I don't have a good answer for why it's going this way. There are a
> bunch of topics, a bunch of motivations, a bunch of everything. Add in
> that it's all of varying degrees of contention, with varying levels of
> information and knowledge out there. On top of that, some people don't
> care, some care, and some care a lot. Add all of these dynamics
> together and now we are where we are. It's not a great state to be in.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From chicagomackay at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 15:16:07 2014
From: chicagomackay at gmail.com (Alex MacKay)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:16:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Elections
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwy4csRp8EOZB9=JNicMf_pFiObJPYMKN38TUuA6bTnruQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t-_32cwr4Eez69Dit4e7yB__--R5bJjZwH2h1jp6QsxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxGhhar1Kkdt5f31Rwa+ZbGH+cv=E=NZm48hj4-E6QKgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vVh9hoFXchWOnYgrMSFNFY1fbAXctFQ2Q5UkMi=XpjnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwx4U9qPaY3XYh_4Nh8YdBddJXLX+H-AG=tSDtCWr5=O4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FA982E.30104@hafd.org>
 <CABD8qwzLdXLh76rKyyR=hifqGfk76oU1w+OOD2sZGze9tx_ODQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sMw2LQtmy=gcJ5PFi_Ndo8H2+EJThqC+kwEootQ_dHeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwo2TeM1vJ9CeuBVf3TUhkywgZ6yqTdXtPod=SrPDw4Hqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sSHdbXX-e4-ckMA06KrZ0Z1x+0ke9P0NHT37dzQt34Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwy4csRp8EOZB9=JNicMf_pFiObJPYMKN38TUuA6bTnruQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <430D593F-871E-4798-8675-742B63C9F0DE@gmail.com>

I usually don't comment but this is way out of hand.  This is a user group.  
This is way off topic and base. 
Lets grab hold of senses (or whatever you like to grab) and chill out like said.
Alex


On Feb 11, 2014, at 5:17 PM, Peter Fein wrote:

> Wait, what? We've retained legal counsel just now? Given that it's
> your brother, I think that's an entirely inappropriate decision to
> being making on behalf of the group at this point in time.
> 
> For fuck's sake, it's a fucking user group, chill out, there's no need
> to be threatening legal action.
> 
> also LOL
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Brian, I assure you we would only do that if our legal counsel (which we do
>> now have) tells us to do this. They are reviewing everything said so far and
>> it will take some time. For this reason, we probably should table the
>> organization discussion until things settle down. Let's reschedule that
>> conversation for March/April. We have been operating this way for a long
>> time so I imagine we will survive a couple more months.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants
> 
> I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 15:33:20 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:33:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
Message-ID: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>

Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.





-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From pete at wearpants.org  Wed Feb 12 15:36:03 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:36:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <52FAEC11.9020200@gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEC11.9020200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwxcN19K=AMJXXvY1B0ibsMgjV6CJz6wVo5=bCwoTFr0VQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 11, 2014 9:36 PM, "Rob Kapteyn" <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
> The issue of governance has come up before, and IIRC, we pretty much
agreed that -- as intelligent
> adults with common interests -- we could spontaneously auto-organize on a
deliberately Anarchist model.

I'm 100% with you there, and my preference would be to return to a
unstructured model. But if we are going to have formal structure, I'd like
it to be  decent, transparent & minimal.

> IMHO -- this is the only thing that pushed Brian (reluctantly) into
becoming a sort of BDFL.
> Things are more complicated today, because of the money that recruiters
give us for food, subsidies we give
> to students to go to PyCon, etc.

Its a little more complicated than this, because Brian's been the driving
force for fundraising to begin with. We could always have refused to take
the money.

Its no longer a BDFL when you have a formal structure like this, with
officials who control the purse strings. And its been feeling a lot more D
than B lately. ;-(

> When he [Peter] used the word "fraudulent" I think he crossed a line.

Perhaps "sketchy, deeply unethical, and legally shaky" would have been a
better choice of words and I apologize for using the harsher term. See this
among many similar citations
http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-an-llc-in-il-is--involuntarily-dissolved--are-t-161641.htmlAnd
since it seems to need clarification, IANAL ofc.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 16:05:22 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:05:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Survey
Message-ID: <CANKg38u+Ev8RQRy1H-S0r1SqniTsS8AcLzNeFKdKdxM3dUML-w@mail.gmail.com>

Please take the time to take this Survey:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5

Thanks!


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From pjh239 at cornell.edu  Wed Feb 12 15:45:01 2014
From: pjh239 at cornell.edu (Peter Halliday)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:45:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1C6B5E4-C1F5-433A-9424-2DC9D40DED20@cornell.edu>

+1 on the Moby Dick

I can also read selection of passages from e. e. cummings with full motions.

Peter

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2014, at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian Ray 
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

From skip at pobox.com  Wed Feb 12 16:56:58 2014
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:56:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <C1C6B5E4-C1F5-433A-9424-2DC9D40DED20@cornell.edu>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C1C6B5E4-C1F5-433A-9424-2DC9D40DED20@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uy3xDutifdokkQ-2ZTwxx2PkaaGdauB6tEOiFop5-gO0A@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone for "Fox in Socks" or "Mr. Brown can Moo. Can you?" I'm a bit
out of practice (my youngest child is 24), but if you really think it
will attract more people to the meetings, I'll give it a whirl. :-)

Skip

From jp at zavteq.com  Wed Feb 12 16:59:23 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:59:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy3xDutifdokkQ-2ZTwxx2PkaaGdauB6tEOiFop5-gO0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C1C6B5E4-C1F5-433A-9424-2DC9D40DED20@cornell.edu>
 <CANc-5Uy3xDutifdokkQ-2ZTwxx2PkaaGdauB6tEOiFop5-gO0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRTciOc22eH6y2TsawXY8Z5XT8QDCpFFA6=6TN9y7r-iQA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm happy to read either of these :)

Everyone Poops or Go the F*#k to Sleep




On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Anyone for "Fox in Socks" or "Mr. Brown can Moo. Can you?" I'm a bit
> out of practice (my youngest child is 24), but if you really think it
> will attract more people to the meetings, I'll give it a whirl. :-)
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 17:01:37 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:01:37 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on any huge book readings or slamming large books on unexpected
abscesses.

I will sit in a corner and contemplate N dimensional relationships to a
three dimensional existence.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Geometry_Relativity_and_the_Fourth_Dimen.html?id=IsiUudN5pD0C




On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
> reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jbcurtinnews at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 17:05:47 2014
From: jbcurtinnews at gmail.com (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:05:47 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>

I could contribute some readings of Mencius.


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

> +1 on any huge book readings or slamming large books on unexpected
> abscesses.
>
> I will sit in a corner and contemplate N dimensional relationships to a
> three dimensional existence.
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books/about/Geometry_Relativity_and_the_Fourth_Dimen.html?id=IsiUudN5pD0C
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
>> reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
-Joseph Curtin
http://www.jbcurtin.com
<http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
@jbcurtin
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From 42 at jbcurtin.io  Wed Feb 12 17:07:30 2014
From: 42 at jbcurtin.io (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:07:30 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Steam Dev Day Videos
Message-ID: <CALmWdShcwsREe1_6DULdcM2A+qg_VBeb4fhRo5b-DsK1QVgABQ@mail.gmail.com>

Incase you care.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteamworksDev/videos

Cheers,
-Joseph Curtin
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 12 17:17:33 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:17:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZRhEZ9-Bwz7UDTDTBg-J2+VKd_LSjjFMNYvjymR26W0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Don Sheu <donald at caa.columbia.edu> wrote:

> Sheila Miguez, did I read your email correctly that you're not
> volunteering for ChiPy? If it's the current state is to your distaste, I
> don't know how it's going to improve if there's only criticism without
> offering a helping hand.


Hi Don,

Thanks for bringing this up. It sounds like many people in the group agree
that more people helping plan events would be beneficial. Brian Ray and I
organize things very differently, so I plan other python events without
asking for logistical support from Brian due to our different approaches. I
have given him feedback on this.

I do enjoy groups that are loosely centralized and where groups within the
group can autonomously plan activities around common interests. I've also
worked in other groups that are more hierarchical in nature. Here is a set
of guiding organizational principles that I like.

https://github.com/scipy-conference/scipy-conference/blob/master/manual/decisions.rst

A few guiding principles to get started:

   - Decision-making process is "do-ocracy" - if you're willing to make the
   effort to do something, do it!
   - If it's a decision that affects other people, look for informal
   agreement among working groups or the SciPy organizers as a whole. Informal
   agreement typically means sending an email and waiting 24 hours to see if
   anyone objects.
   - If a problem arises, contact the SciPy organizers list or if a more
   private channel is needed contact the Co-Chairs directly. Please be
   respectful of others time and input.


With respect to Code of Conduct, I am more interested in participating in
technical events, and do not wish to be the emotional labourer for our
group. Other people on the list seem to have the Code of Conduct topic well
in hand, and I have given a helping hand by sharing my experience and
providing CoC samples.

I am happy to hear that people would like to help Brian. If more people
join, perhaps I can help organize a working group or be a volunteer in one.
Things can be loosely organized enough that we can manage in our separate
ways.

I am sorry to hear that people do not think a loose structure and
organizational discussions are valuable. I would like to see more ChiPy-run
activities. Sprints, project nights, workshops on topics like robotics,
civic hacking, job interviewing, talk mentoring, scientific programming,
etc. I know that other groups do these things.

Since people seem to be shutting down discussion, it is not likely that the
group will do any of these things since no one will step in to help. Brian
cannot handle all of that on his own. Neither can I. It would be great if
we had more people from ChiPy involved.


-- 
sheila
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From sk8asd123 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 17:21:54 2014
From: sk8asd123 at gmail.com (Paige Lo)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:21:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHeZkvmYkQ_VjJ8q4k3VOXEpCV4=QAdNzoN7c525YDuLBKp8ag@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Mencius


*Paige**Lo*
(708) 642-8877


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:

> I could contribute some readings of Mencius.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> +1 on any huge book readings or slamming large books on unexpected
>> abscesses.
>>
>> I will sit in a corner and contemplate N dimensional relationships to a
>> three dimensional existence.
>>
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books/about/Geometry_Relativity_and_the_Fourth_Dimen.html?id=IsiUudN5pD0C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
>>> reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Ray
>>> @brianray
>>> (773) 669-7717
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Joseph Curtin
> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
> @jbcurtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 12 17:22:30 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:22:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>

I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.

http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

While engaging in this trial-and-error process, there are some principles
we can keep in mind that are essential to democratic structuring and are
also politically effective:

1) *Delegation* of specific authority to specific individuals for specific
tasks by democratic procedures. Letting people assume jobs or tasks only by
default means they are not dependably done. If people are selected to do a
task, preferably after expressing an interest or willingness to do it, they
have made a commitment which cannot so easily be ignored.
2) Requiring all those to whom authority has been delegated to be
*responsible* to those who selected them. This is how the group has control
over people in positions of authority. Individuals may exercise power, but
it is the group that has ultimate say over how the power is exercised.
3) *Distribution* of authority among as many people as is reasonably
possible. This prevents monopoly of power and requires those in positions
of authority to consult with many others in the process of exercising it.
It also gives many people the opportunity to have responsibility for
specific tasks and thereby to learn different skills.
4) *Rotation* of tasks among individuals. Responsibilities which are held
too long by one person, formally or informally, come to be seen as that
person's "property" and are not easily relinquished or controlled by the
group. Conversely, if tasks are rotated too frequently the individual does
not have time to learn her job well and acquire the sense of satisfaction
of doing a good job.
5) *Allocation* of tasks along rational criteria. Selecting someone for a
position because they are liked by the group or giving them hard work
because they are disliked serves neither the group nor the person in the
long run. Ability, interest, and responsibility have got to be the major
concerns in such selection. People should be given an opportunity to learn
skills they do not have, but this is best done through some sort of
"apprenticeship" program rather than the "sink or swim" method. Having a
responsibility one can't handle well is demoralizing. Conversely, being
blacklisted from doing what one can do well does not encourage one to
develop one's skills. Women have been punished for being competent
throughout most of human history; the movement does not need to repeat this
process.
6) *Diffusion of information* to everyone as frequently as possible.
Information is power. Access to information enhances one's power. When an
informal network spreads new ideas and information among themselves outside
the group, they are already engaged in the process of forming an opinion --
without the group participating. The more one knows about how things work
and what is happening, the more politically effective one can be.
7) *Equal access to resources* needed by the group. This is not always
perfectly possible, but should be striven for. A member who maintains a
monopoly over a needed resource (like a printing press owned by a husband,
or a darkroom) can unduly influence the use of that resource. Skills and
information are also resources. Members' skills can be equitably available
only when members are willing to teach what they know to others.

When these principles are applied, they insure that whatever structures are
developed by different movement groups will be controlled by and
responsible to the group. The group of people in positions of authority
will be diffuse, flexible, open, and temporary. They will not be in such an
easy position to institutionalize their power because ultimate decisions
will be made by the group at large. The group will have the power to
determine who shall exercise authority within it.



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:

> I could contribute some readings of Mencius.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> +1 on any huge book readings or slamming large books on unexpected
>> abscesses.
>>
>> I will sit in a corner and contemplate N dimensional relationships to a
>> three dimensional existence.
>>
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books/about/Geometry_Relativity_and_the_Fourth_Dimen.html?id=IsiUudN5pD0C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
>>> reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Ray
>>> @brianray
>>> (773) 669-7717
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Joseph Curtin
> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
> @jbcurtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 17:31:07 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:31:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Steam Dev Day Videos
In-Reply-To: <CALmWdShcwsREe1_6DULdcM2A+qg_VBeb4fhRo5b-DsK1QVgABQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALmWdShcwsREe1_6DULdcM2A+qg_VBeb4fhRo5b-DsK1QVgABQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=P+2AdBoJJPcvSDrpqNHTD+AXBH5+FPhT_w1hL97t8nXCg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!

Passing to teen interested in becoming a game programmer...


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Joseph Curtin <42 at jbcurtin.io> wrote:

> Incase you care.
> http://www.youtube.com/user/SteamworksDev/videos
>
> Cheers,
> -Joseph Curtin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 12 17:38:31 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:38:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] citation graphs, neo4j, python and performance
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rY4oVK7Eg7agwKdrC5KOWcEJ_8H-=hMqQMeFCjjqp2GJw@mail.gmail.com>

I was noodling around online looking for ways to best represent citation
graphs, and I found this interesting talk from fosdem last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1K-uU1X3tc

I haven't skipped on to the part of my job where I need to handle citation
information properly, but I wanted to share this interesting tidbit.

Here's the related page

http://related-work.net/

https://github.com/renepickhardt/related-work.net



-- 
sheila
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 18:31:30 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:31:30 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chipy Thursday Meetup
In-Reply-To: <CABD8qwxcN19K=AMJXXvY1B0ibsMgjV6CJz6wVo5=bCwoTFr0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOL2cRR5WR+idK82X9QvRYuDsEDsyDOQJipZRME6ZNmifq7Wyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVHJtrb1Z2m7w0JyVsSPeM4-oWEUMfyqMSsswQYVasgFw=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+bGkfL-Ad+5mRhPWap+jPU36easSDDPkqob+oMdCzg1Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <52FAEC11.9020200@gmail.com>
 <CABD8qwxcN19K=AMJXXvY1B0ibsMgjV6CJz6wVo5=bCwoTFr0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+YxeSS5ny-GinJWQXMWfHfVAig3A-tqVWaFczJQsdXCog@mail.gmail.com>

Can we stop with the "if this becomes more about organization..."  line?  I
read this list everyday, and the *vast* majority of posts are of the order
"I've got a numpy array with x integers...." or " hey, does anybody know
how to compile cython on RHEL..?" .  Its not a big deal people.  At all.
 Stop acting like sorting out the fine print is in any way going to ruin
the party.


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:

>
> On Feb 11, 2014 9:36 PM, "Rob Kapteyn" <robkapteyn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The issue of governance has come up before, and IIRC, we pretty much
> agreed that -- as intelligent
> > adults with common interests -- we could spontaneously auto-organize on
> a deliberately Anarchist model.
>
> I'm 100% with you there, and my preference would be to return to a
> unstructured model. But if we are going to have formal structure, I'd like
> it to be  decent, transparent & minimal.
>
> > IMHO -- this is the only thing that pushed Brian (reluctantly) into
> becoming a sort of BDFL.
> > Things are more complicated today, because of the money that recruiters
> give us for food, subsidies we give
> > to students to go to PyCon, etc.
>
> Its a little more complicated than this, because Brian's been the driving
> force for fundraising to begin with. We could always have refused to take
> the money.
>
> Its no longer a BDFL when you have a formal structure like this, with
> officials who control the purse strings. And its been feeling a lot more D
> than B lately. ;-(
>
> > When he [Peter] used the word "fraudulent" I think he crossed a line.
>
> Perhaps "sketchy, deeply unethical, and legally shaky" would have been a
> better choice of words and I apologize for using the harsher term. See this
> among many similar citations
>
> http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/if-an-llc-in-il-is--involuntarily-dissolved--are-t-161641.htmlAnd since it seems to need clarification, IANAL ofc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 18:37:20 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:37:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZRhEZ9-Bwz7UDTDTBg-J2+VKd_LSjjFMNYvjymR26W0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZRhEZ9-Bwz7UDTDTBg-J2+VKd_LSjjFMNYvjymR26W0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+aBSoGWLTHf6Vcaax7VKz5bmP432jmDpvLKcwhKW=5Rwg@mail.gmail.com>

1)  I can help organize.  I've worked the Chipy table at Flourish twice
now.  I've put up posters and fliers before.  I can do things like this in
the future.

2)  I would be really sad to see you not involved as much Sheila.  I
appreciate what you do.  I appreciate what Carl does.  You two have
contributed a great deal to my experience of python and free software in
general

3)  Its absolutely absurd that the discussion is being shut down because
people don't have the maturity to handle criticism or simply engage in
reasoned discussion about the issues that affect this group


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:17 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Don Sheu <donald at caa.columbia.edu> wrote:
>
>> Sheila Miguez, did I read your email correctly that you're not
>> volunteering for ChiPy? If it's the current state is to your distaste, I
>> don't know how it's going to improve if there's only criticism without
>> offering a helping hand.
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up. It sounds like many people in the group agree
> that more people helping plan events would be beneficial. Brian Ray and I
> organize things very differently, so I plan other python events without
> asking for logistical support from Brian due to our different approaches. I
> have given him feedback on this.
>
> I do enjoy groups that are loosely centralized and where groups within the
> group can autonomously plan activities around common interests. I've also
> worked in other groups that are more hierarchical in nature. Here is a set
> of guiding organizational principles that I like.
>
>
> https://github.com/scipy-conference/scipy-conference/blob/master/manual/decisions.rst
>
> A few guiding principles to get started:
>
>    - Decision-making process is "do-ocracy" - if you're willing to make
>    the effort to do something, do it!
>    - If it's a decision that affects other people, look for informal
>    agreement among working groups or the SciPy organizers as a whole. Informal
>    agreement typically means sending an email and waiting 24 hours to see if
>    anyone objects.
>    - If a problem arises, contact the SciPy organizers list or if a more
>    private channel is needed contact the Co-Chairs directly. Please be
>    respectful of others time and input.
>
>
> With respect to Code of Conduct, I am more interested in participating in
> technical events, and do not wish to be the emotional labourer for our
> group. Other people on the list seem to have the Code of Conduct topic well
> in hand, and I have given a helping hand by sharing my experience and
> providing CoC samples.
>
> I am happy to hear that people would like to help Brian. If more people
> join, perhaps I can help organize a working group or be a volunteer in one.
> Things can be loosely organized enough that we can manage in our separate
> ways.
>
> I am sorry to hear that people do not think a loose structure and
> organizational discussions are valuable. I would like to see more ChiPy-run
> activities. Sprints, project nights, workshops on topics like robotics,
> civic hacking, job interviewing, talk mentoring, scientific programming,
> etc. I know that other groups do these things.
>
> Since people seem to be shutting down discussion, it is not likely that
> the group will do any of these things since no one will step in to help.
> Brian cannot handle all of that on his own. Neither can I. It would be
> great if we had more people from ChiPy involved.
>
>
> --
> sheila
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 18:52:28 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:52:28 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+aBSoGWLTHf6Vcaax7VKz5bmP432jmDpvLKcwhKW=5Rwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZRhEZ9-Bwz7UDTDTBg-J2+VKd_LSjjFMNYvjymR26W0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aBSoGWLTHf6Vcaax7VKz5bmP432jmDpvLKcwhKW=5Rwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uNnZCDsSG=JLD7=x23JNbNJ7_AkLLOg1_vX8q7Owvxkw@mail.gmail.com>

1)  I can help organize.  I've worked the Chipy table at Flourish twice
> now.  I've put up posters and fliers before.  I can do things like this in
> the future.
>
>
>
 I've got an idea why don't we get you with the publicity organizer and the
other person who was offering to help in order to produce a flyer to place
in a couple computer science departments around town announcing the meeting
Thursday?




-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From robkapteyn at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 20:12:55 2014
From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:12:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAHeZkvmYkQ_VjJ8q4k3VOXEpCV4=QAdNzoN7c525YDuLBKp8ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHeZkvmYkQ_VjJ8q4k3VOXEpCV4=QAdNzoN7c525YDuLBKp8ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABdKVNi9RpLP4DMZTADNjuWF7a2+A2YrdPd-JNP3U9u9DxYEcA@mail.gmail.com>

I can bring in my collection of the old "Whole Earth Catalog"s.
They are sort of like the WWW, but better since the NSA can't track your
browsing history ;)



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Paige Lo <sk8asd123 at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 for Mencius
>
>
> *Paige**Lo*
> (708) 642-8877
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Joseph Curtin <jbcurtinnews at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I could contribute some readings of Mencius.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on any huge book readings or slamming large books on unexpected
>>> abscesses.
>>>
>>> I will sit in a corner and contemplate N dimensional relationships to a
>>> three dimensional existence.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books/about/Geometry_Relativity_and_the_Fourth_Dimen.html?id=IsiUudN5pD0C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Proposal: I will read random selections from Moby Dick... For safety
>>>> reasons, we will lock all doors from exit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Brian Ray
>>>> @brianray
>>>> (773) 669-7717
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chicago mailing list
>>>> Chicago at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Joseph Curtin
>> http://www.jbcurtin.com
>>  <http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
>> @jbcurtin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 20:17:57 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:17:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>
> I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.
>
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

Awesome article! Should be re-read every year.

From geoffbrown at comcast.net  Wed Feb 12 20:31:22 2014
From: geoffbrown at comcast.net (geoffbrown at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:31:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>

I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending to be lesbian'. 

Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe Derrida of course. 

Geoff 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob Haugen" <bob.haugen at gmail.com> 
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote: 
> 
> I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness. 
> 
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm 

Awesome article! Should be re-read every year. 
_______________________________________________ 
Chicago mailing list 
Chicago at python.org 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 

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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 20:44:49 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 04:44:49 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, let's have a debate! Geoff you take Derrida, I'll take Foucault. After
all, There's nothing as unsettling as the trope of unchecked power in
society that manifest itself in the reckless display of authoritarian
control though the meme of public guise and and the fallacy of the creator
persist of scientific knowledge and the dismantlement of arechealogies.





On Thursday, February 13, 2014, <geoffbrown at comcast.net> wrote:

> I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending to
> be lesbian'.
>
> Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe
> Derrida of course.
>
> Geoff
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Bob Haugen" <bob.haugen at gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bob.haugen at gmail.com');>
> >
> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','chicago at python.org');>
> >
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','shekay at pobox.com');>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.
> >
> > http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>
> Awesome article! Should be re-read every year.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Chicago at python.org');>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

-- 

-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 12 20:49:19 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:49:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
 <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rbnDA0G_ai1yunpM2z62vYCZmKhT0g1tQqtNvZZU1OiDA@mail.gmail.com>

You say Foucault, I say Foucault, let's call the whole thing off.




On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, let's have a debate! Geoff you take Derrida, I'll take Foucault. After
> all, There's nothing as unsettling as the trope of unchecked power in
> society that manifest itself in the reckless display of authoritarian
> control though the meme of public guise and and the fallacy of the
> creator persist of scientific knowledge and the dismantlement of
> arechealogies.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, <geoffbrown at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending
>> to be lesbian'.
>>
>> Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe
>> Derrida of course.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Bob Haugen" <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.
>> >
>> > http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>>
>> Awesome article! Should be re-read every year.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> --
> Jason Wirth
>     213.675.5294
>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From rlspelich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 21:00:21 2014
From: rlspelich at gmail.com (Robert Spelich)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:00:21 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy3xDutifdokkQ-2ZTwxx2PkaaGdauB6tEOiFop5-gO0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <C1C6B5E4-C1F5-433A-9424-2DC9D40DED20@cornell.edu>
 <CANc-5Uy3xDutifdokkQ-2ZTwxx2PkaaGdauB6tEOiFop5-gO0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAuAO0Fs47b7ajCfTys12_n9NVNJ5YRGiaXHo2_wRC61PCy8xg@mail.gmail.com>

Why don't you host a tweetle, beetle puddle paddle battle:) Sorry, could
not resist. I have a 4 year old.


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Anyone for "Fox in Socks" or "Mr. Brown can Moo. Can you?" I'm a bit
> out of practice (my youngest child is 24), but if you really think it
> will attract more people to the meetings, I'll give it a whirl. :-)
>
> Skip
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From geoffbrown at comcast.net  Wed Feb 12 21:25:55 2014
From: geoffbrown at comcast.net (geoffbrown at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:25:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
 <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53330507.5073758.1392236755183.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>

I don't think ANYONE wants to hear that debate. :) Ironically, he did have a way with words. 



From: "Jason Wirth" <wirth.jason at gmail.com> 
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:44:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal 

Oh, let's have a debate! Geoff you take Derrida, I'll take Foucault. After all, There's nothing as unsettling as the trope of unchecked power in society that manifest itself in the reckless display of authoritarian control though the meme of public guise and and the fallacy of the creator persist of scientific knowledge and the dismantlement of arechealogies. 





On Thursday, February 13, 2014, < geoffbrown at comcast.net > wrote: 



I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending to be lesbian'. 

Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe Derrida of course. 

Geoff 


From: "Bob Haugen" < bob.haugen at gmail.com > 
To: "The Chicago Python Users Group" < chicago at python.org > 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez < shekay at pobox.com > wrote: 
> 
> I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness. 
> 
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm 

Awesome article! Should be re-read every year. 
_______________________________________________ 
Chicago mailing list 
Chicago at python.org 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 






-- 

-- 
Jason Wirth 
213.675.5294 
wirth.jason at gmail.com 

_______________________________________________ 
Chicago mailing list 
Chicago at python.org 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 

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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 21:30:54 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 05:30:54 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <53330507.5073758.1392236755183.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
 <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <53330507.5073758.1392236755183.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMi=TPOQjSsB8fEAbgDV=PHpgPkTPvjE0ccXk_uE1CfskA@mail.gmail.com>

   Ironically, he did have a way with words.

Yes, but he clearly had a problem with punctuation. :)



>
>
> *From: *"Jason Wirth" <wirth.jason at gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wirth.jason at gmail.com');>
> >
> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','chicago at python.org');>
> >
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:44:49 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>
> Oh, let's have a debate! Geoff you take Derrida, I'll take Foucault. After
> all, There's nothing as unsettling as the trope of unchecked power in
> society that manifest itself in the reckless display of authoritarian
> control though the meme of public guise and and the fallacy of the
> creator persist of scientific knowledge and the dismantlement of
> arechealogies.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, <geoffbrown at comcast.net<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','geoffbrown at comcast.net');>>
> wrote:
>
>> I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending
>> to be lesbian'.
>>
>> Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe
>> Derrida of course.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Bob Haugen" <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.
>> >
>> > http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>>
>> Awesome article! Should be re-read every year.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> --
> Jason Wirth
>     213.675.5294
>     wirth.jason at gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wirth.jason at gmail.com');>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Chicago at python.org');>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>

-- 

-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com
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From nick at goggl.es  Wed Feb 12 21:37:09 2014
From: nick at goggl.es (Nick Bennett)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
In-Reply-To: <CAEwvNMi=TPOQjSsB8fEAbgDV=PHpgPkTPvjE0ccXk_uE1CfskA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38t+zNFAe=SkzeAhu898B2r8R_FsnPjnyHozP4NUMau8vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ijLhX0DOg=27+Yv-E5JuPUhiRKJb0OUw2jM5JF=UhKxcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALmWdSjfppH6hNZDz1atVNsotgjg0jw=PcvLFbcKbR8AGgH9+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZ0bQj4gZBLuRfg-pXmQQy4HpvLcjpqFFM-GKmspanEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VdFsXoktoWGk1iCvoo5na-0o-8ku-aQDm7h6rEfacanA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2083181167.5019494.1392233482467.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
 <CAEwvNMhaFmoWzAURHGg=4EGw_nONmHY5CWOauVL5x02bNTtA9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <53330507.5073758.1392236755183.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
 <CAEwvNMi=TPOQjSsB8fEAbgDV=PHpgPkTPvjE0ccXk_uE1CfskA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAML41dipj4y4po0zK7EQ9QvjxmOSf6nXh9PKzR7Vog094g@mail.gmail.com>

Buy me a beer, Jason, and I'll listen to that debate.

Nick Bennett
224-392-2326


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>    Ironically, he did have a way with words.
>
> Yes, but he clearly had a problem with punctuation. :)
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> *From: *"Jason Wirth" <wirth.jason at gmail.com>
>> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:44:49 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>>
>> Oh, let's have a debate! Geoff you take Derrida, I'll take Foucault.
>> After all, There's nothing as unsettling as the trope of unchecked power in
>> society that manifest itself in the reckless display of authoritarian
>> control though the meme of public guise and and the fallacy of the
>> creator persist of scientific knowledge and the dismantlement of
>> arechealogies.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, <geoffbrown at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to read from 'Tyranny' the part about 'being or pretending
>>> to be lesbian'.
>>>
>>> Nobody does deconstruction like the feminists of the 70's. Except maybe
>>> Derrida of course.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *"Bob Haugen" <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>> *To: *"The Chicago Python Users Group" <chicago at python.org>
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:17:57 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Chicago] Talk Proposal
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:22 AM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I propose a reading from The Tyranny of Structurelessness.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>>>
>>> Awesome article! Should be re-read every year.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Jason Wirth
>>     213.675.5294
>>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> --
> Jason Wirth
>     213.675.5294
>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 03:03:23 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:03:23 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon Startup Row Event at Braintree February 25th
Message-ID: <CACvX9QCaWpLAGTzNMH96G-GEDQ51Vk0yFKp1Mh2ukhsD+KWcTw@mail.gmail.com>

Brian Ray, may I have help to get this onto ChiPy's RSVP system? I'll
reserve spots of ChiPy members specifically.

Join the Chicago Python community on February 25th at 6:30pm for an evening
mashup of Python and Startups.

We will start the evening with networking, food, and beer. Braintree
providing nourishment. I'm checking with Lagunitas to get sponsorship of
the event.

Next up, we will have startups giving 5-minute elevator pitches to a select
panel of judges, with live voting from the audience. The lucky winners will
be awarded a free booth in Startup Row at PyCon 2014 in April. PyCon this
year will convene in the beautiful city of Montr?al.

Link explaining PyCon Startup Row in Montreal,
https://us.pycon.org/2014/events/startup_row/

Joining us on the judging panel will be Jeremy Smith founder of SpotHero,
Stephanie Bell of Braintree, and Brian Ray organizer of ChiPy the Chicago
Python user group.

A few spots open for pitching startups -- please contact us with your
one-liner description before 5pm Friday! Email d <sylvain at twitter.com>on.sh
eu at threemice.net to for consideration for a pitching spot.

Braintree is our generous host thanks to Adam Forsyth. Braintree is located
on the 4th Floor, Suite 455, of 111 N Canal St, Chicago, IL 60606
-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 06:24:48 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:24:48 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Thread on Organization
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uNnZCDsSG=JLD7=x23JNbNJ7_AkLLOg1_vX8q7Owvxkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QDmEnmuoptaMHz-SR9TxRUZ2vwh4r0MoTq_xq5R=gA3Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rZRhEZ9-Bwz7UDTDTBg-J2+VKd_LSjjFMNYvjymR26W0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aBSoGWLTHf6Vcaax7VKz5bmP432jmDpvLKcwhKW=5Rwg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uNnZCDsSG=JLD7=x23JNbNJ7_AkLLOg1_vX8q7Owvxkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+bVvuTScVNn+0UgR+8mSyEkAht7uRx8=me8us_z5odBKg@mail.gmail.com>

absolutely.


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 1)  I can help organize.  I've worked the Chipy table at Flourish twice
>> now.  I've put up posters and fliers before.  I can do things like this in
>> the future.
>>
>>
>>
>  I've got an idea why don't we get you with the publicity organizer and
> the other person who was offering to help in order to produce a flyer to
> place in a couple computer science departments around town announcing the
> meeting Thursday?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 14:45:19 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 07:45:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
Message-ID: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>

Couple notes on tonight's meeting:

* we have one awesome talk lined up. We will be doing some break out
sessions and/or lightening talks after that talk. Speak up if you got a
lightening talk.
* This venue is great. Thank you BoA. There will be food and drink because
they are sponsoring 1000%
* For better or worse, I will be there. I'm back in town. If someone else
wants to organize tonight's meeting, speak up now. Most everything is done,
however. You will just need to get up there and say everything is awesome.
* This will be our best meeting ever!
* We will go out after the meeting again to Elephant and Castle. However,
we (And I really mean "I", thank you very much) also have been instructed
to (temporarily, I hope) stop buying drinks at after parties with ChiPy
funds. So, you will have to buy your own drinks.

RSVP here: http://chipy.org

ALSO IT WILL BE DRAMA FREE: due to some recent events, we have been
instructed (ordered, in fact) to table all the organizational topics to a
later date. We simply can not talk about any of this stuff at this meeting.
Sorry if you really looked forward to that ;)  We will address all the
issues in a public forum at a future date.

What you can do, is take the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5


I <3 ChiPy.

RSVP http://chipy.org





-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From jp at zavteq.com  Thu Feb 13 15:19:13 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 08:19:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm happy to get there early-ish and help organize/ introduce/speak about
chipy awesomeness!

On Thursday, February 13, 2014, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Couple notes on tonight's meeting:
>
> * we have one awesome talk lined up. We will be doing some break out
> sessions and/or lightening talks after that talk. Speak up if you got a
> lightening talk.
> * This venue is great. Thank you BoA. There will be food and drink because
> they are sponsoring 1000%
> * For better or worse, I will be there. I'm back in town. If someone else
> wants to organize tonight's meeting, speak up now. Most everything is done,
> however. You will just need to get up there and say everything is awesome.
> * This will be our best meeting ever!
> * We will go out after the meeting again to Elephant and Castle. However,
> we (And I really mean "I", thank you very much) also have been instructed
> to (temporarily, I hope) stop buying drinks at after parties with ChiPy
> funds. So, you will have to buy your own drinks.
>
> RSVP here: http://chipy.org
>
> ALSO IT WILL BE DRAMA FREE: due to some recent events, we have been
> instructed (ordered, in fact) to table all the organizational topics to a
> later date. We simply can not talk about any of this stuff at this meeting.
> Sorry if you really looked forward to that ;)  We will address all the
> issues in a public forum at a future date.
>
> What you can do, is take the survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5
>
>
> I <3 ChiPy.
>
> RSVP http://chipy.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 15:28:18 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 08:28:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vHxOkL-7qY=oOjwu1vFTisDm5b0UKk4CDq54eE023hMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, February 13, 2014, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> I'm happy to get there early-ish and help organize/ introduce/speak about
> chipy awesomeness!
>

Sounds good!


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From hundredpercentjuice at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 15:45:19 2014
From: hundredpercentjuice at gmail.com (JS Irick)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 09:45:19 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38vHxOkL-7qY=oOjwu1vFTisDm5b0UKk4CDq54eE023hMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vHxOkL-7qY=oOjwu1vFTisDm5b0UKk4CDq54eE023hMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKVqkS=Um-b+nekTWmmZzcvzE71kb23HKsnm+21+3FSxgyfLkQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Drama Free" as in free speech, or "Drama Free" as in free beer?


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm happy to get there early-ish and help organize/ introduce/speak about
>> chipy awesomeness!
>>
>
> Sounds good!
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
====
JS Irick
312-307-8904
Consultant: truqua.com
Coach: atlascrossfit.com
Programmer: juicetux.com
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 16:07:22 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 07:07:22 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon Startup Row Event at Braintree HQ RSVP Instructions
Message-ID: <CACvX9QABmqPRhnnMe4AAMpWYRj+StpFQBSFFUx4aQrGXEO9BHw@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, I think I over thought that. I originally intended to reserve spots
for ChiPy members. Scratch my request to put it on the ChiPy RSVP system
Brian Ray.

ChiPy members visit Eventbrite to sign-up,
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pycon-startup-row-pitch-event-at-braintree-hq-rsvp-now-for-free-admission-tickets-10610100095

-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*
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From pete at wearpants.org  Thu Feb 13 18:09:32 2014
From: pete at wearpants.org (Peter Fein)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 11:09:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD8qwxdcwCz2MRgGBD23sN4cm8Tt1pOab2mxRKGJOrGzh4_qg@mail.gmail.com>

Probably can't make it - woke up quite sick this morning, half my face
swollen, it's really quite unpleasant. :-\ Hope y'all have the best
meeting ever!

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Couple notes on tonight's meeting:
>
> * we have one awesome talk lined up. We will be doing some break out
> sessions and/or lightening talks after that talk. Speak up if you got a
> lightening talk.
> * This venue is great. Thank you BoA. There will be food and drink because
> they are sponsoring 1000%
> * For better or worse, I will be there. I'm back in town. If someone else
> wants to organize tonight's meeting, speak up now. Most everything is done,
> however. You will just need to get up there and say everything is awesome.
> * This will be our best meeting ever!
> * We will go out after the meeting again to Elephant and Castle. However, we
> (And I really mean "I", thank you very much) also have been instructed to
> (temporarily, I hope) stop buying drinks at after parties with ChiPy funds.
> So, you will have to buy your own drinks.
>
> RSVP here: http://chipy.org
>
> ALSO IT WILL BE DRAMA FREE: due to some recent events, we have been
> instructed (ordered, in fact) to table all the organizational topics to a
> later date. We simply can not talk about any of this stuff at this meeting.
> Sorry if you really looked forward to that ;)  We will address all the
> issues in a public forum at a future date.
>
> What you can do, is take the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5
>
>
> I <3 ChiPy.
>
> RSVP http://chipy.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Peter Fein | wearpants.org | @wearpants

I read email at the start and end of each day. IM if urgent.

From jp at zavteq.com  Thu Feb 13 17:51:45 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:51:45 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CAKVqkS=Um-b+nekTWmmZzcvzE71kb23HKsnm+21+3FSxgyfLkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38vHxOkL-7qY=oOjwu1vFTisDm5b0UKk4CDq54eE023hMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKVqkS=Um-b+nekTWmmZzcvzE71kb23HKsnm+21+3FSxgyfLkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRRwuPfMDDw-t3V61272JTVXKLU=zVGN_4daNx7i1dHzOg@mail.gmail.com>

Since there's only 1 talk, and since Brian mentioned workshops, I'm up for
bringing my accordion, laptop, and Googley Glass. Anyone who can help me
understand more about the Python Mirror API and wnats to try them out (I'll
bring a waiver and 300 lb gorilla to make sure you don't walk off with
them), that will be fun :)

Anyone else want to do some workshop-py thing tonight? I'll make sure it's
on the agenda.


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:45 AM, JS Irick <hundredpercentjuice at gmail.com>wrote:

> "Drama Free" as in free speech, or "Drama Free" as in free beer?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm happy to get there early-ish and help organize/ introduce/speak
>>> about chipy awesomeness!
>>>
>>
>> Sounds good!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ====
> JS Irick
> 312-307-8904
> Consultant: truqua.com
> Coach: atlascrossfit.com
> Programmer: juicetux.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From chad at glendenin.com  Thu Feb 13 20:18:59 2014
From: chad at glendenin.com (Chad Glendenin)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 13:18:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Hacker News Chicago meetup has returned
Message-ID: <CABetDDvSP=_+Ayewtwtkguvi7kfhNky3dBitjF4fDsahD83gww@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Pythonistas,

Sorry if this is a little bit off-topic, but a while back, we had a monthly
Hacker News Chicago meetup, and I remember seeing familiar faces from ChiPy
there. My friend Eric is rebooting that HN-Chicago group.

The first new event is going to be on Feb. 19 in River North:

http://www.meetup.com/hnchicago/events/162105792/

If you're on Hacker News or interested in tech entrepreneurship, check it
out.

chad
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From jdumblauskas at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 21:55:32 2014
From: jdumblauskas at gmail.com (Jerry Dumblauskas)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 14:55:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Tonight's Meeting will be drama free and best ever
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38uX7EU7bpQsp8nP9EwzoofoCBFd4nMXxS7B6NkvNa+9_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRS+KdsqYLmeOR5-VGBdrOUfQrtvoe6e78_x=Nd8Et2dsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G_OOt86ETkEMo8bMmWtBcjNTnGWrApBa8FeiunE6Dr=5b1eQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From 6 30 on the room is open

Thx
On Feb 13, 2014 8:19 AM, "JP Bader" <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> I'm happy to get there early-ish and help organize/ introduce/speak about
> chipy awesomeness!
>
> On Thursday, February 13, 2014, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Couple notes on tonight's meeting:
>>
>> * we have one awesome talk lined up. We will be doing some break out
>> sessions and/or lightening talks after that talk. Speak up if you got a
>> lightening talk.
>> * This venue is great. Thank you BoA. There will be food and drink
>> because they are sponsoring 1000%
>> * For better or worse, I will be there. I'm back in town. If someone else
>> wants to organize tonight's meeting, speak up now. Most everything is done,
>> however. You will just need to get up there and say everything is awesome.
>> * This will be our best meeting ever!
>> * We will go out after the meeting again to Elephant and Castle. However,
>> we (And I really mean "I", thank you very much) also have been instructed
>> to (temporarily, I hope) stop buying drinks at after parties with ChiPy
>> funds. So, you will have to buy your own drinks.
>>
>> RSVP here: http://chipy.org
>>
>> ALSO IT WILL BE DRAMA FREE: due to some recent events, we have been
>> instructed (ordered, in fact) to table all the organizational topics to a
>> later date. We simply can not talk about any of this stuff at this meeting.
>> Sorry if you really looked forward to that ;)  We will address all the
>> issues in a public forum at a future date.
>>
>> What you can do, is take the survey:
>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5
>>
>>
>> I <3 ChiPy.
>>
>> RSVP http://chipy.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Ray
>> @brianray
>> (773) 669-7717
>>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jp at zavteq.com  Fri Feb 14 02:25:03 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 19:25:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Announcements
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRTFgPt8R-PhRW=BN_jnYkP2R_seqYNbWEkwy+rH6sUrsA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a quick rundown of what I just said for our meetup:

*Past*:
Hackathon last weekend was awesome. The Best Hackathon ever! For more
details, ask Brian.

*Present*:
Tonights talk is by Christopher Cot?
After the talk, we'll do a little time w/ Google Glass Mirror API Workshop.

*Future* (all 3 following events are happening at Braintree):
Sheila is organizing a Python workshop for 2/27. She's looking for
volunteers. Please feel free to reach out if you can help out, or want to
attend.

Chicago Freelancer's Happy Hour is meeting on 2/24. This month we'll be
having someone talking to us about finding work with companies who seem to
only post job listings for FTE's. Find out ways to work in (and around) the
system to get more work. More information on meetup.com/chicagofreelancers.

Don Sheu is hosting a startup table on 2/25. If you have an exciting idea,
want to  build it with Python, and think it'll make money, come present the
idea to Don at Braintree on 2/25. If they like your idea, you could win a
trip to PyCon in Montreal. Don and crew are looking for 2 more presenters,
so if you have something, come out and strut your stuff.

*Python Office Hours*:
Held at PS1. If you want to learn more about the code, fix a project,
figure something out, please check out Pumping Station 1, held every other
Wednesday night. For more information, please talk to Ava.

Thanks to Chris for an awesome talk about Curiosity.com and BofA for being
an amazing host. We appreciate the space and look forward to future events!

Regards,

JP (loud guy in the room) Bader

-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From shekay at pobox.com  Sat Feb 15 19:19:07 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:19:07 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Python Project Night 2/27 Re:  ChiPy Announcements
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rYiH9nuGkO0U3bjiAiqp7ZsKhzkArVh3r+SSiET7d5+4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> Sheila is organizing a Python workshop for 2/27. She's looking for
> volunteers. Please feel free to reach out if you can help out, or want to
> attend.


Hi all!

Sign up here for the 2/27 project night
http://www.meetup.com/ChicagoPythonistas/events/163257702/

Please sign up!

Volunteering?

If you want to help out, please send me an email.

I'd like people to be on board to help people who are learning python or
learning python web frameworks. Generally people show up to similar events
wanting to practice python in general, and django or some other framework
as well.

Since this is the first project night, I don't know how many attendees will
be wanting help with other project domains. But based on casual
conversation, I'd also like to have people on board who would be willing to
help anyone who is using the scientific python stack to analyse data, and
perhaps also people who are getting started with using python with a
raspberry pi, beagle bone, arduino etc.



-- 
sheila
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 16 13:29:01 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 06:29:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] A return to shared space discusion
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ih94QOrod-5yS15Vw99BuJ3efCaQYod=PvtAoigWrHX_A@mail.gmail.com>

Mainly directed to JP but also open to other discussion of shared space in
the North and Northwest.

Not sure you meant that you you have a shared space  but you mentioned a
space at Ravenswood and IP.  I travel on the 80 and the brown line often so
that area wold interest me if I were to ever figure out a business plan
that demanded I have a space other than this one in my home.  One possible
future is worker owned tech coop.

So I was wondering first if the space was in the building with Merz on top
of it and that MightyBytes is in and was wondering if $400 was a rent for
one office or for a shared space.

Randy Baxley
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Sun Feb 16 17:02:15 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 08:02:15 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] A return to shared space discusion
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ih94QOrod-5yS15Vw99BuJ3efCaQYod=PvtAoigWrHX_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih94QOrod-5yS15Vw99BuJ3efCaQYod=PvtAoigWrHX_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACvX9QB3qY2R=8BGQYC4VvN=tJh3wFepXyHDZgfRA-vpKFs5pg@mail.gmail.com>

For folks who want to pursue businesses born out of a deep knowledge of a
niche or customer need, I'm happy to lend my help. It may be a case of the
one-eyed man in the land of the blind, but I'll be generous with my time.


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 4:29 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> Mainly directed to JP but also open to other discussion of shared space in
> the North and Northwest.
>
> Not sure you meant that you you have a shared space  but you mentioned a
> space at Ravenswood and IP.  I travel on the 80 and the brown line often so
> that area wold interest me if I were to ever figure out a business plan
> that demanded I have a space other than this one in my home.  One possible
> future is worker owned tech coop.
>
> So I was wondering first if the space was in the building with Merz on top
> of it and that MightyBytes is in and was wondering if $400 was a rent for
> one office or for a shared space.
>
> Randy Baxley
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From jp at zavteq.com  Mon Feb 17 04:13:33 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:13:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] A return to shared space discusion
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ih94QOrod-5yS15Vw99BuJ3efCaQYod=PvtAoigWrHX_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih94QOrod-5yS15Vw99BuJ3efCaQYod=PvtAoigWrHX_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRQFTOZ=XSDkFrJb5A=pB=5Ojz626Rwa7JgevFjHndueew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Randy,

My building is just next door to the Merz building, it is the old Manz
company where Threadless used to be (4043 N Ravenswood). The space I'm in
is not the same as MightyBytes, it is a shared office space with 6 generous
sized offices, each furnished, and the $475/month gets you wifi, all
utilities, an amazing historic building, and wonderful location near the
Irving Park stop.

The space is month-to-month, so if you don't want to be there any longer
than the current month, you're free to head out.

One of my main reasons for wanting this space was because although I love
working from home, when my family is around, getting work done is nearly
impossible. And while the idea of a coffee shop is romantic, I find it
often times distracting (however there is a Julius Meinl 3 doors down and
is the central place that bakes all the pastries for the rest of their
stores - not that I've tried them [b/c they aren't kosher], but I've been
told their amazing).

If anyone is interested to learn more, I'm happy to share/provide a tour!

Regards,

JP


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> Mainly directed to JP but also open to other discussion of shared space in
> the North and Northwest.
>
> Not sure you meant that you you have a shared space  but you mentioned a
> space at Ravenswood and IP.  I travel on the 80 and the brown line often so
> that area wold interest me if I were to ever figure out a business plan
> that demanded I have a space other than this one in my home.  One possible
> future is worker owned tech coop.
>
> So I was wondering first if the space was in the building with Merz on top
> of it and that MightyBytes is in and was wondering if $400 was a rent for
> one office or for a shared space.
>
> Randy Baxley
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 18 04:49:23 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:49:23 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon Startup Row Pitch Event at Braintree HQ
Message-ID: <CACvX9QBdGquKKJDNjPafQvozcC6epP8jYb4XfhYRaegvwwUfXA@mail.gmail.com>

Again thank you Adam Forsyth for your sturdy support!

Space is running out, please RSVP now to guarantee your spot at the event.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pycon-startup-row-pitch-event-at-braintree-hq-rsvp-now-for-free-admission-tickets-10610100095

Going to have plenty of beer from Lagunitas. They're contributing twelve
cases.

Do have spots open for a company to pitch. Please direct them directly to
me. The vote will be crowdsourced. If a company invites moms, dads,
grandparents, and extended family, it's likely to work out.

Thank you everybody. Looking forward to seeing everybody at Braintree, on
February 25th, at 6:30. RSVP now!

-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*
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From margie at openstack.org  Tue Feb 18 19:10:19 2014
From: margie at openstack.org (Margaret Callard)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:10:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] OpenStack Meeting this Thursday, February 20,
	2014 @ the CME
Message-ID: <3F489582-FEF8-4451-AE78-F33A8334F7E0@openstack.org>

Hi ChiPy members,

If interested -  join the CME and OpenStack this Thursday at 7 p.m. to discuss the differences between object and block storage as well as walk through a technical dive into Cinder, OpenStack's block storage project. 

OpenStack was built with Python.

http://www.meetup.com/meetup-group-NjZdcegA/

Thanks.

Margie Callard
OpenStack Foundation
margie at openstack.org

From paul at paulmayassociates.com  Wed Feb 19 00:10:45 2014
From: paul at paulmayassociates.com (Paul May)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 23:10:45 -0000
Subject: [Chicago] The May Report,
	bringing you the latest in Technology Community News,
	Information, Opinions, Scoop, and Events. Jack Welch, PyCon,
	GimmeYourCard App, MIT Tonite, AuctionsByCellular
Message-ID: <152992572735652@198.154.215.62:26>

ChiPy, getting the word out for PyCon 2014 and the Feb meeting on Feb 25th.

Good luck, Paul 





  




The May Report, bringing you the latest in Technology Community News, Information, Opinions, Scoop, and Events.






==================

The May Report - February 18, 2014

==================

The May Report, bringing you the latest in Technology Community News, Information, Opinions, Scoop, and Events.

Click Here For The Latest May Report! 


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Briefly Noted Section: -- Paul May - GimmeYourCard App - Ron would love it!
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PyCon Startup Row Pitch Event at Braintree February 25th
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 MIT Forum - Tonite - Brain Tree - Civic Opera House Feb 18th http://www.mitefchicago.org/content.aspx?page_id=87&club_id=375711&item_id=316676 

BNC VC Group 3/4/14 Hosted by Polsinelli - Sign up at 123Signup - Event - Len Bland


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Video if you missed the Ron May Memorial Ceremony Speeches by those paying their final respects July 2013 by Martin O'Shield

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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 05:50:33 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:50:33 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] green threads are *awesome*
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>

that is all
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From deadwisdom at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 06:01:01 2014
From: deadwisdom at gmail.com (Brantley Harris)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 23:01:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] green threads are *awesome*
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>

Been saying it for years.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
wrote:

> that is all
>
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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 06:14:26 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:14:26 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] green threads are *awesome*
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMjtDTSGMs6bQ0uZuE+6-4AzN17gM+M+Fkz+4u7UgGHX7Q@mail.gmail.com>

+1 green thread awesomeness next Chipy!

On Wednesday, February 19, 2014, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Been saying it for years.
>
> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','danieltpeters at gmail.com');>>
> wrote:
>
>> that is all
>>
>

-- 

-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 06:31:55 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 23:31:55 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] green threads are *awesome*
In-Reply-To: <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+ZKBWDjVcZ5mP7yBUvhoH2V=fnQpvn5R=UC2Qx6ib7hLQ@mail.gmail.com>

where can I learn more about them?  What projects use them?


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com>wrote:

> Been saying it for years.
>
> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> that is all
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jbcurtinnews at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 06:49:53 2014
From: jbcurtinnews at gmail.com (Joseph Curtin)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 23:49:53 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] green threads are *awesome*
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+ZKBWDjVcZ5mP7yBUvhoH2V=fnQpvn5R=UC2Qx6ib7hLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHzLg+ZkzLgdUne6bQD21FOhL2ONVhyU3UD75iRpSQLvSgvriw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKwoybgsy8oAp-iDwwmcCHGKonwBsFz5gnHN8CKB=o1sO7FRRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+ZKBWDjVcZ5mP7yBUvhoH2V=fnQpvn5R=UC2Qx6ib7hLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALmWdShmOmGF9NJ6SBxT23K1PXgt4vPDjVHHVN7eDkJ_SuGB-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Daniel,

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/greenlet#who-is-using-greenlet

Cheers,
-Joseph Curtin


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>wrote:

> where can I learn more about them?  What projects use them?
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Brantley Harris <deadwisdom at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Been saying it for years.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> that is all
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
-Joseph Curtin
http://www.jbcurtin.com
<http://www.jbcurtin.com/>github <http://goo.gl/d5uPH>
@jbcurtin
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 21:34:42 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:34:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
Message-ID: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all:

I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.

If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
that:


   - You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
   example of work
   - You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
   - You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
   the next 12 months
   - You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
   month.


We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.

Topics this week (in this order):


   1. Taking funds for Video (for carl)
   2. possible venues for next month
   3. review of surveys
   4. status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
   5. establishing Code of Conduct
   https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
   6. status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
   7. review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
   8. possible venues for next month

If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this time
does not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this
meeting. That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.

Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!

Brian

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brian at python.org  Wed Feb 19 21:47:09 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:47:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all:
>
> I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>
> If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> that:
>
> You're an active Python developer with at least one public available example
> of work

This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
writing public code.

> You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.

This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
*because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.

> You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for the
> next 12 months
>
> You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> month.
>
>
> We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.

Why?

ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.

From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 21:56:41 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:56:41 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+aUg3gx8mHdSjqaP=y0t5Tg72YZ09LmTuYZQcy9N9V9=Q@mail.gmail.com>

This seems deliberately exclusionary at this point.  *Tons * of people who
are very much valid people have not been to 9 meetings in the last 12
months.  If this is a free group why is such a high bar being placed in the
way of organizing around it?  I'm with Brian Curtain on this.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey all:
> >
> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
> >
> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> > that:
> >
> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
> example
> > of work
>
> This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
> people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
> outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
> students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
> writing public code.
>
> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
>
> This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
> *because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.
>
> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
> the
> > next 12 months
> >
> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> > month.
> >
> >
> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>
> Why?
>
> ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 21:56:57 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:56:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38ttqmS5zsWHVDJ5tqmKnEDEvPtd4VWfG57KSX+fx01d4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Here it is on the website:

http://www.chipy.org/pages/chipy/board/

I am forming this meeting so I don't have to dictate future decisions;
however, guess what, I am going to dictate the first one. The reason why,
is we have to start somewhere. With that said, we will do everything as
committee this point forward. However, you must first fit this minimum
criteria.

There are some people emailing me off the list demanding this. I just now
noticed, they don't even use Python. They never have and never will be.
Really, you want to organize a Python user group but don't know anything
about it?!  amazing .. .hahaha  Anyway, this is why.



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey all:
> >
> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
> >
> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> > that:
> >
> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
> example
> > of work
>
> This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
> people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
> outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
> students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
> writing public code.
>
>
I am sure this can be revised, but we have to have some criteria to start.
Attend the meeting if you qualify. We can vote to have this changed. We
have to start somewhere.




> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
>
> This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
> *because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.
>

Again, we have to start somewhere. Attend the meeting if you qualify, and
vote to change it if you don't like it.  But, someone who does not attend
has no place leading the group.

One option is if you want to organize, attend first, then make changes once
you know what to change.



>
> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
> the
> > next 12 months
> >
> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> > month.
> >
> >
> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>
> Why?
>

Because we want to make sure the rule is enforced.


>
> ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.
>

If we outgrow the technology, we can find an alternate solution.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 21:58:54 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:58:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+aUg3gx8mHdSjqaP=y0t5Tg72YZ09LmTuYZQcy9N9V9=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aUg3gx8mHdSjqaP=y0t5Tg72YZ09LmTuYZQcy9N9V9=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sEwQATxuXBpsDUYs+3_uLuXeq0_B3bz4Kqxz+eWZbVyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Revised, 6 meetings in the past 12 months. Sound fair?
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From pjh239 at cornell.edu  Wed Feb 19 21:56:09 2014
From: pjh239 at cornell.edu (Peter Halliday)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 14:56:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>

I don?t think of these as exclusionary.  The bar has to be reasonably set.  It?s good for the group that the organization protect itself from people who may not have the groups best interest in mind.  How do you do that?  By providing some sort of proof.  I think that attendance and public proof limits are reasonable.  I also write most of my code privately, but it?s very easy to have a public code on github.  Maybe code could be shared under an NDA as proof too, but that gets problematic too.

Peter


On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey all:
>> 
>> I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
>> organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>> 
>> If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
>> that:
>> 
>> You're an active Python developer with at least one public available example
>> of work
> 
> This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
> people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
> outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
> students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
> writing public code.
> 
>> You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
> 
> This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
> *because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.
> 
>> You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for the
>> next 12 months
>> 
>> You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
>> month.
>> 
>> 
>> We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From pjh239 at cornell.edu  Wed Feb 19 22:01:59 2014
From: pjh239 at cornell.edu (Peter Halliday)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:01:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sEwQATxuXBpsDUYs+3_uLuXeq0_B3bz4Kqxz+eWZbVyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aUg3gx8mHdSjqaP=y0t5Tg72YZ09LmTuYZQcy9N9V9=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sEwQATxuXBpsDUYs+3_uLuXeq0_B3bz4Kqxz+eWZbVyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CC3C4F6-DD45-4CCF-A14B-783DC8EC5E76@cornell.edu>

I think 50% attendance is a fairly low hurdle and very reasonable. 



On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:58 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Revised, 6 meetings in the past 12 months. Sound fair?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 19 22:07:31 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:07:31 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>

I disagree.

Here is a counter example.

I consider Cezar a valid member of the group. I do not remember how many
meetings he has attended in the past year. He helps maintain chipy.org and
the mailing list. He lives in some far out suburb.





On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Peter Halliday <pjh239 at cornell.edu> wrote:

> I don't think of these as exclusionary.  The bar has to be reasonably set.
>  It's good for the group that the organization protect itself from people
> who may not have the groups best interest in mind.  How do you do that?  By
> providing some sort of proof.  I think that attendance and public proof
> limits are reasonable.  I also write most of my code privately, but it's
> very easy to have a public code on github.  Maybe code could be shared
> under an NDA as proof too, but that gets problematic too.
>
> Peter
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey all:
> >>
> >> I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> >> organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
> >>
> >> If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> >> that:
> >>
> >> You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
> example
> >> of work
> >
> > This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
> > people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
> > outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
> > students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
> > writing public code.
> >
> >> You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
> >
> > This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
> > *because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.
> >
> >> You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
> the
> >> next 12 months
> >>
> >> You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> >> month.
> >>
> >>
> >> We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
sheila
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 22:11:42 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:11:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>

If you disagree, attend the meeting we can put it on the agenda to vote for
some measures for exceptions.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 22:20:24 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:20:24 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Code of Conduct Draft
Message-ID: <CANKg38u6fdPGb1-ZeJ22ZBw+NKYvSTRyKMgSVpu221Fo=KQVHw@mail.gmail.com>

Draft of code of conduct to be discussed at Sunday's meeting (if we get
that far): http://www.chipy.org/pages/conduct/

Feel free to make comments/corrections here so they can be considered when
this is decided by committee on Sunday.

Thanks! Brian


-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 23:37:52 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:37:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=igHQh+n6WGF3fXr-x4rV_GB7Q_TVAp1h-XBgt0iwAE4Nw@mail.gmail.com>

I am excluded as I am not and do not particularly expect to be a developer.
 I am a Python User.  I may actually at some point develop some software
and I  am hoping it will be open and public.  I have a project on github so
in my own mind I am the advocate, partial designer and custodian of a
project more than several have been a part of designing.  I have designed
extremely large scale scientific software systems on the fastest computers
of my time for the largest corporation in the world.  I have designed,
managed, hired, fired and run the crews for multiple trading systems.

All that said, I am fine with being excluded and expect this to continue to
be the best ever Python User Group.

Randy


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> If you disagree, attend the meeting we can put it on the agenda to vote
> for some measures for exceptions.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From shekay at pobox.com  Wed Feb 19 23:40:22 2014
From: shekay at pobox.com (sheila miguez)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:40:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is a promising step you are taking.

I do not want to work with you to help organize your company.



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> If you disagree, attend the meeting we can put it on the agenda to vote
> for some measures for exceptions.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
sheila
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Wed Feb 19 23:48:02 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:48:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=igHQh+n6WGF3fXr-x4rV_GB7Q_TVAp1h-XBgt0iwAE4Nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=igHQh+n6WGF3fXr-x4rV_GB7Q_TVAp1h-XBgt0iwAE4Nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38uHQCpfFMQtYE4ZG1vEc23JyKUzM8MFk5V+X_pX8ZBNfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Randy, I am not sure you are excluded. From what I can tell, you fit the
requirements. Don't cut yourself short.
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 00:02:13 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 17:02:13 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:

> This is a promising step you are taking.
>

Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full
transparency into everything past, present, and future. It will also help
us figure out how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I
would like to see nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.

If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then why
speak?  If you have something personal against me, you're approach still
does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care if you
like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is cowardly.
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 04:10:39 2014
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:10:39 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.5305722f.70ea162f.21da@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>

I?m actually fine with this as a first step, even if it excludes me. I?d rather those that participate kick it off. There should be a bar of participation met to make decisions. Else everyone is just bike shedding something where they have no skin in the game.

By the way, I do live in the far burbs, but at the moment I?m in Phoenix. It?s in the 80s and sunny. You jealous? :)

--?
Cezar Jenkins
@emperorcezar
From:?sheila miguez sheila miguez
Reply:?The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Date:?February 19, 2014 at 2:08:11 PM
To:?The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Subject:? Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting  
I disagree.

Here is a counter example.

I consider Cezar a valid member of the group. I do not remember how many meetings he has attended in the past year. He helps maintain chipy.org and the mailing list. He lives in some far out suburb.





On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Peter Halliday <pjh239 at cornell.edu> wrote:
I don?t think of these as exclusionary. ?The bar has to be reasonably set. ?It?s good for the group that the organization protect itself from people who may not have the groups best interest in mind. ?How do you do that? ?By providing some sort of proof. ?I think that attendance and public proof limits are reasonable. ?I also write most of my code privately, but it?s very easy to have a public code on github. ?Maybe code could be shared under an NDA as proof too, but that gets problematic too.

Peter


On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey all:
>>
>> I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
>> organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>>
>> If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
>> that:
>>
>> You're an active Python developer with at least one public available example
>> of work
>
> This excludes a lot of people for no good reason. Plenty of good
> people write closed source code at work and don't contribute code
> outside of work, but they're valid community members. Plenty of good
> students or beginners haven't gotten to the point where they're
> writing public code.
>
>> You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
>
> This excludes a lot of people who would like to make a change
> *because* there haven't been 9 meetings they wanted to attend.
>
>> You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for the
>> next 12 months
>>
>> You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
>> month.
>>
>>
>> We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>
> Why?
>
> ps. Hangouts only work for groups of 10 people or less.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago



--
sheila
_______________________________________________  
Chicago mailing list  
Chicago at python.org  
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago  
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From matt at soulrobotic.com  Thu Feb 20 16:00:07 2014
From: matt at soulrobotic.com (Matthew Erickson)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:00:07 +0000
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <etPan.5305722f.70ea162f.21da@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <etPan.5305722f.70ea162f.21da@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>
Message-ID: <de50d9d96afb44e788f03f17ea3b51e8@BY2PR07MB073.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

*puts fingers in ears*

LALALA ITS ABOVE FREEZING HERE SOMETIMES LALALALA

From: Chicago [mailto:chicago-bounces+matt=soulrobotic.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Cezar Jenkins

By the way, I do live in the far burbs, but at the moment I?m in Phoenix. It?s in the 80s and sunny. You jealous? :)
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From brian at python.org  Thu Feb 20 19:37:23 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is a promising step you are taking.
>
>
> Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full transparency
> into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure out
> how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like to see
> nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
>
> If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then why
> speak?  If you have something personal against me, you're approach still
> does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care if you
> like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is cowardly.

I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you
can count me out of the meeting.

Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
voice within this community.

From namusoke at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 20:04:57 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:04:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>,
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>,
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>

I have attended two meetings and very disappointed with the diversity of this organization.  The first time I attended, I felt unwelcome and never returned, but kept privy to the communication to see how this organization developed and progressed.  Additionally, I understand the importance of Python as a development language, because it's constantly required in the job descriptions.

Most recently, I attended the meeting at Bank of America and it remains status quo as it pertains to diversity.

As a budding entrepreneur in the health care industry whose product involves an ecosystem of government agencies (Federal, State, Civil), multinational companies and health care providers, I am often asked how do I get other minorities involved in technology.  As a leader, I reply, partnerships, collaboration and teamwork are crucial.   Therefore, I attend and get involved in various meetup organizations to learn and most important understand how these organizations engage with the diverse communities of Chicago to create and sustain innovation so that when I recommend an organization, I know that their best interest lies in the citizens of Chicago.

Chipy should focus on partnerships, collaboration and teamwork to make certain that those citizens of Chicago who want to learn and engage in python development are welcome and LEARN.  Python is a very common language used in development and Chipy should be using their resources to communicate this message to the citizens of Chicago.

Thank you,

Valentina Kibuyaga

> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
> From: brian at python.org
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
> 
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a promising step you are taking.
> >
> >
> > Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full transparency
> > into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure out
> > how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like to see
> > nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
> >
> > If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then why
> > speak?  If you have something personal against me, you're approach still
> > does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> > encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care if you
> > like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is cowardly.
> 
> I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
> your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
> voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you
> can count me out of the meeting.
> 
> Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
> voice within this community.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
 		 	   		  
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 20:53:20 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:53:20 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sdcGe=8Qo-R3viLdWjoNHVdOF--P7NuPiXa+rMAB1f-g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh stop the coup d'?tat folks. It is not necessary.

I am sorry of you are upset because you do not qualify to attend the
organizer's meeting.  I am sure you can have someone speak on your behalf
and vote you in if you want a voice. But if you don't want a voice, why are
you speaking?

By the way, did you see our pull request?
https://github.com/chicagopythonworkshop/cpw-site/pull/1  eh hem?
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 20:56:35 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>

It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to me
offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming.
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 21:15:45 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:15:45 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Valentina, what are you working on? I'm doing an event at Braintree on
February 25th, thanks to Adam Forsyth's sturdy support.

I'm soliciting women and minority entrepreneurs with concepts without
resources to make a pitch to the audience to connect with developers and
business partners to launch a MVP by March 20th for consideration for a
booth slot on Startup Row, at PyCon in Montreal.

I'd be interested in hearing what you're pursuing. Cheers, Don


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Valentina Kibuyaga
<namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> I have attended two meetings and very disappointed with the diversity of
> this organization.  The first time I attended, I felt unwelcome and never
> returned, but kept privy to the communication to see how this organization
> developed and progressed.  Additionally, I understand the importance of
> Python as a development language, because it's constantly required in the
> job descriptions.
>
> Most recently, I attended the meeting at Bank of America and it remains
> status quo as it pertains to diversity.
>
> As a budding entrepreneur in the health care industry whose product
> involves an ecosystem of government agencies (Federal, State, Civil),
> multinational companies and health care providers, I am often asked how do
> I get other minorities involved in technology.  As a leader, I reply,
> partnerships, collaboration and teamwork are crucial.   Therefore, I attend
> and get involved in various meetup organizations to learn and most
> important understand how these organizations engage with the diverse
> communities of Chicago to create and sustain innovation so that when I
> recommend an organization, I know that their best interest lies in the
> citizens of Chicago.
>
> Chipy should focus on partnerships, collaboration and teamwork to make
> certain that those citizens of Chicago who want to learn and engage in
> python development are welcome and LEARN.  Python is a very common language
> used in development and Chipy should be using their resources to
> communicate this message to the citizens of Chicago.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
> > Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
> > From: brian at python.org
> > To: chicago at python.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This is a promising step you are taking.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full
> transparency
> > > into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure
> out
> > > how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like
> to see
> > > nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
> > >
> > > If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then
> why
> > > speak? If you have something personal against me, you're approach still
> > > does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> > > encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care
> if you
> > > like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is
> cowardly.
> >
> > I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
> > your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
> > voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you
> > can count me out of the meeting.
> >
> > Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
> > voice within this community.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From namusoke at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 21:19:12 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:19:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>,
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>,
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>,
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>

Brian:

Thanks for the quick response.

Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss welcoming ideas.

Again, thanks.

Valentina Kibuyaga


Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
From: brianhray at gmail.com
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting

It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming. 




_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
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From namusoke at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 21:22:15 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:22:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>,
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>,
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>,
 <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W8017E619A72D01CD23CDA5CA9A0@phx.gbl>

Hi Don:

I am planning to attend the event on the 2/25.

I can provide details then.

Thanks for reaching out.

Valentina Kibuyaga

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:15:45 -0800
From: dinaldo at gmail.com
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting

Hi Valentina, what are you working on? I'm doing an event at Braintree on February 25th, thanks to Adam Forsyth's sturdy support. 
I'm soliciting women and minority entrepreneurs with concepts without resources to make a pitch to the audience to connect with developers and business partners to launch a MVP by March 20th for consideration for a booth slot on Startup Row, at PyCon in Montreal.

I'd be interested in hearing what you're pursuing. Cheers, Don

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com> wrote:




I have attended two meetings and very disappointed with the diversity of this organization.  The first time I attended, I felt unwelcome and never returned, but kept privy to the communication to see how this organization developed and progressed.  Additionally, I understand the importance of Python as a development language, because it's constantly required in the job descriptions.


Most recently, I attended the meeting at Bank of America and it remains status quo as it pertains to diversity.

As a budding entrepreneur in the health care industry whose product involves an ecosystem of government agencies (Federal, State, Civil), multinational companies and health care providers, I am often asked how do I get other minorities involved in technology.  As a leader, I reply, partnerships, collaboration and teamwork are crucial.   Therefore, I attend and get involved in various meetup organizations to learn and most important understand how these organizations engage with the diverse communities of Chicago to create and sustain innovation so that when I recommend an organization, I know that their best interest lies in the citizens of Chicago.


Chipy should focus on partnerships, collaboration and teamwork to make certain that those citizens of Chicago who want to learn and engage in python development are welcome and LEARN.  Python is a very common language used in development and Chipy should be using their resources to communicate this message to the citizens of Chicago.


Thank you,

Valentina Kibuyaga

> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
> From: brian at python.org
> To: chicago at python.org

> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
> 
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a promising step you are taking.

> >
> >
> > Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full transparency
> > into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure out
> > how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like to see

> > nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
> >
> > If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then why
> > speak?  If you have something personal against me, you're approach still

> > does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> > encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care if you
> > like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is cowardly.

> 
> I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
> your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
> voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you

> can count me out of the meeting.
> 
> Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
> voice within this community.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list

> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it. Thank you. 



_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 21:24:58 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:24:58 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W8017E619A72D01CD23CDA5CA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W8017E619A72D01CD23CDA5CA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACvX9QBr-dO71v2TDUfcoLVrm2jK13LcUXPb23pGY8eOJDPDyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Valentina, well I'm seeking candidates to pitch to the audience. For
example Ariana Vargas who's been at Givefoward with be pitching for
resources. She's become very familiar with the challenges cancer patients
face while undergoing treatment to access resources. She wants to create a
tool that'll help cancer patients find resources like free wigs or free
housecleaning.

Thank you for your support of the event! Cheers, Don


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga
<namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Don:
>
> I am planning to attend the event on the 2/25.
>
> I can provide details then.
>
> Thanks for reaching out.
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:15:45 -0800
> From: dinaldo at gmail.com
>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> Hi Valentina, what are you working on? I'm doing an event at Braintree on
> February 25th, thanks to Adam Forsyth's sturdy support.
>
> I'm soliciting women and minority entrepreneurs with concepts without
> resources to make a pitch to the audience to connect with developers and
> business partners to launch a MVP by March 20th for consideration for a
> booth slot on Startup Row, at PyCon in Montreal.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing what you're pursuing. Cheers, Don
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> I have attended two meetings and very disappointed with the diversity of
> this organization.  The first time I attended, I felt unwelcome and never
> returned, but kept privy to the communication to see how this organization
> developed and progressed.  Additionally, I understand the importance of
> Python as a development language, because it's constantly required in the
> job descriptions.
>
> Most recently, I attended the meeting at Bank of America and it remains
> status quo as it pertains to diversity.
>
> As a budding entrepreneur in the health care industry whose product
> involves an ecosystem of government agencies (Federal, State, Civil),
> multinational companies and health care providers, I am often asked how do
> I get other minorities involved in technology.  As a leader, I reply,
> partnerships, collaboration and teamwork are crucial.   Therefore, I attend
> and get involved in various meetup organizations to learn and most
> important understand how these organizations engage with the diverse
> communities of Chicago to create and sustain innovation so that when I
> recommend an organization, I know that their best interest lies in the
> citizens of Chicago.
>
> Chipy should focus on partnerships, collaboration and teamwork to make
> certain that those citizens of Chicago who want to learn and engage in
> python development are welcome and LEARN.  Python is a very common language
> used in development and Chipy should be using their resources to
> communicate this message to the citizens of Chicago.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
> > Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
> > From: brian at python.org
> > To: chicago at python.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This is a promising step you are taking.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full
> transparency
> > > into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure
> out
> > > how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like
> to see
> > > nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
> > >
> > > If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then
> why
> > > speak? If you have something personal against me, you're approach still
> > > does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> > > encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care
> if you
> > > like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is
> cowardly.
> >
> > I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
> > your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
> > voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you
> > can count me out of the meeting.
> >
> > Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
> > voice within this community.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
>
> --
> Don Sheu
> (312) 880-9389
>
>   *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
> <http://www.openforcetour.org/>*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may
> be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
> laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
> it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
> to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
> Thank you.*
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From namusoke at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 21:40:16 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:40:16 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>,
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>,
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>,
 <CACvX9QAuk2AyZSzXdNQxCjwndsDREHWhABWDg9SwiAW796AByw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W321A8E9F5CB84F71D1E637CA9A0@phx.gbl>

Don,

Thanks for the clarification.

I have already presented the idea and the attached document provides feedback and specifies what I resources I need.

In essence, my idea/concept focuses on a delivery model of medical health apps to all the stakeholders involved in health care.

The primary resources I need at this point:  mentor, co-founder, and funding for prototype.

Is there still room to present?  If so, what resources do I need?


Thank you,

Valentina Kibuyaga




Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:15:45 -0800
From: dinaldo at gmail.com
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting

Hi Valentina, what are you working on? I'm doing an event at Braintree on February 25th, thanks to Adam Forsyth's sturdy support. 
I'm soliciting women and minority entrepreneurs with concepts without resources to make a pitch to the audience to connect with developers and business partners to launch a MVP by March 20th for consideration for a booth slot on Startup Row, at PyCon in Montreal.

I'd be interested in hearing what you're pursuing. Cheers, Don

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com> wrote:




I have attended two meetings and very disappointed with the diversity of this organization.  The first time I attended, I felt unwelcome and never returned, but kept privy to the communication to see how this organization developed and progressed.  Additionally, I understand the importance of Python as a development language, because it's constantly required in the job descriptions.


Most recently, I attended the meeting at Bank of America and it remains status quo as it pertains to diversity.

As a budding entrepreneur in the health care industry whose product involves an ecosystem of government agencies (Federal, State, Civil), multinational companies and health care providers, I am often asked how do I get other minorities involved in technology.  As a leader, I reply, partnerships, collaboration and teamwork are crucial.   Therefore, I attend and get involved in various meetup organizations to learn and most important understand how these organizations engage with the diverse communities of Chicago to create and sustain innovation so that when I recommend an organization, I know that their best interest lies in the citizens of Chicago.


Chipy should focus on partnerships, collaboration and teamwork to make certain that those citizens of Chicago who want to learn and engage in python development are welcome and LEARN.  Python is a very common language used in development and Chipy should be using their resources to communicate this message to the citizens of Chicago.


Thank you,

Valentina Kibuyaga

> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:37:23 -0600
> From: brian at python.org
> To: chicago at python.org

> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
> 
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM, sheila miguez <shekay at pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is a promising step you are taking.

> >
> >
> > Thank you. This should at least give all those who qualify full transparency
> > into everything past, present, and future. It will also help us figure out
> > how to prevent extreme negativity. My vote is only one. I would like to see

> > nothing more than the group to move on past recent issues.
> >
> > If you want a voice, you should come. If you don't want a voice, then why
> > speak?  If you have something personal against me, you're approach still

> > does not make sense. Won't it just increase my vote? Like I said, I
> > encourage everyone who fits the requirements to attend. I don't care if you
> > like the present leadership or not. Refusing to participate is cowardly.

> 
> I'm not interested in having a voice within the legal structure of
> your organization, and I'm certainly not interested in having that
> voice taken away by the legal structure of your organization, so you

> can count me out of the meeting.
> 
> Hopefully no one thinks they need to go to your meeting to have a
> voice within this community.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list

> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago

 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago




-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this message may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it. Thank you. 



_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 		 	   		  
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 22:14:12 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:14:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>

When one can no longer see or hear diversity then perhaps it will have been
achieved.  You are unfortunately the only you I have met.  Have you ridden
Blue, Red, Brown, Orange, Green, Pink, Red and Purple?  How about the 56,
80, 3, 151, 60?  Diversity to me is like hardware.  Beautiful and
utilitarian while greatly divisional.  I greeted you and smiled at you.
 Were you late to the meeting?  I sat next to you at a workshop at two
locations.  Maybe I cannot fill your box for diversity.  You see I am the
only me I know as well.




On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Brian:
>
> Thanks for the quick response.
>
> Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss
> welcoming ideas.
>
> Again, thanks.
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
> From: brianhray at gmail.com
>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to
> me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From nick271828 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 22:27:05 2014
From: nick271828 at gmail.com (Nick Bennett)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:27:05 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAMLPT1snwpcVNFCRbeCPnQY9xARGFowwUgk1_pPmZzcJpw@mail.gmail.com>

Beautifully put, Randy.

Valentina, I understand what you say to mean that there is not racial,
socioeconomic, gender, or Python skill-level diversity at ChiPy. What
Randy's response says to me is that thinking of diversity in this way is
only skin deep, and that people who otherwise look and sound similar are
actually worlds apart in who they are underneath.

You know one of the secrets to diversity too, introducing yourself and
learning about the differences that make someone unique. Randy and I are
white men who attend ChiPy and Open Gov Hack Night regularly, but from
there we diverge. I have XXY chromosomes, presumably he has XY. He is 20
years my senior, he loves brisket and I love candy, he is a self-described
pointer while I'd say I'm a list of dicts, and so on.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

> When one can no longer see or hear diversity then perhaps it will have
> been achieved.  You are unfortunately the only you I have met.  Have you
> ridden Blue, Red, Brown, Orange, Green, Pink, Red and Purple?  How about
> the 56, 80, 3, 151, 60?  Diversity to me is like hardware.  Beautiful and
> utilitarian while greatly divisional.  I greeted you and smiled at you.
>  Were you late to the meeting?  I sat next to you at a workshop at two
> locations.  Maybe I cannot fill your box for diversity.  You see I am the
> only me I know as well.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Brian:
>>
>> Thanks for the quick response.
>>
>> Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss
>> welcoming ideas.
>>
>> Again, thanks.
>>
>> Valentina Kibuyaga
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
>> From: brianhray at gmail.com
>>
>> To: chicago at python.org
>> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>>
>> It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey
>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to
>> me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From namusoke at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 20 23:03:14 2014
From: namusoke at hotmail.com (Valentina Kibuyaga)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:03:14 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPcQAMLPT1snwpcVNFCRbeCPnQY9xARGFowwUgk1_pPmZzcJpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>,
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>,
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>,
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>,
 <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAPcQAMLPT1snwpcVNFCRbeCPnQY9xARGFowwUgk1_pPmZzcJpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU181-W152C5B213E155BFB93CF33CA9A0@phx.gbl>




Thanks for your input and advice well taken.

As you know, I do not allow any diversity issues to eliminate me from opportunities.  Further, as I pursue my start-up, I cannot afford to allow diversity issues to impede my progress.  Therefore, I focus on the similarities as opposed to the differences.

Nevertheless, as leader, I have to speak up when I encounter unwelcoming behavior.  I am very inclusive, especially in the technology space where I believe that technological innovations to solve humane problems will and require the human race.

Thank you,

Valentina Kibuyaga

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:27:05 -0600
From: nick271828 at gmail.com
To: chicago at python.org
Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting

Beautifully put, Randy.

Valentina, I understand what you say to mean that there is not racial, socioeconomic, gender, or Python skill-level diversity at ChiPy. What Randy's response says to me is that thinking of diversity in this way is only skin deep, and that people who otherwise look and sound similar are actually worlds apart in who they are underneath.


You know one of the secrets to diversity too, introducing yourself and learning about the differences that make someone unique. Randy and I are white men who attend ChiPy and Open Gov Hack Night regularly, but from there we diverge.  I have XXY chromosomes, presumably he has XY. He is 20 years my senior, he loves brisket and I love candy, he is a self-described pointer while I'd say I'm a list of dicts, and so on.



On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com> wrote:

When one can no longer see or hear diversity then perhaps it will have been achieved.  You are unfortunately the only you I have met.  Have you ridden Blue, Red, Brown, Orange, Green, Pink, Red and Purple?  How about the 56, 80, 3, 151, 60?  Diversity to me is like hardware.  Beautiful and utilitarian while greatly divisional.  I greeted you and smiled at you.  Were you late to the meeting?  I sat next to you at a workshop at two locations.  Maybe I cannot fill your box for diversity.  You see I am the only me I know as well.





On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com> wrote:





Brian:

Thanks for the quick response.

Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss welcoming ideas.

Again, thanks.

Valentina Kibuyaga




Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
From: brianhray at gmail.com
To: chicago at python.org

Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting

It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming. 






_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago





_______________________________________________

Chicago mailing list

Chicago at python.org

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago





_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
 		 	   		  
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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 00:57:05 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:57:05 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon Startup Row Pitch Event at Braintree HQ
In-Reply-To: <CACvX9QBdGquKKJDNjPafQvozcC6epP8jYb4XfhYRaegvwwUfXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACvX9QBdGquKKJDNjPafQvozcC6epP8jYb4XfhYRaegvwwUfXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMj7r0Db5wtqWrhoAt0PeCpKVCDPLMCy4xox5607eNtVJA@mail.gmail.com>

An article on pitching that could be helpful:
http://qz.com/175646/the-mistake-90-of-harvard-mbas-make-during-their-startup-pitch/

Best,
Jason


-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Don Sheu <dinaldo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Again thank you Adam Forsyth for your sturdy support!
>
> Space is running out, please RSVP now to guarantee your spot at the event.
> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pycon-startup-row-pitch-event-at-braintree-hq-rsvp-now-for-free-admission-tickets-10610100095
>
> Going to have plenty of beer from Lagunitas. They're contributing twelve
> cases.
>
> Do have spots open for a company to pitch. Please direct them directly to
> me. The vote will be crowdsourced. If a company invites moms, dads,
> grandparents, and extended family, it's likely to work out.
>
> Thank you everybody. Looking forward to seeing everybody at Braintree, on
> February 25th, at 6:30. RSVP now!
>
> --
> Don Sheu
> (312) 880-9389
>
>   *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
> <http://www.openforcetour.org/>*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From nick271828 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 00:59:40 2014
From: nick271828 at gmail.com (Nick Bennett)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 17:59:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W152C5B213E155BFB93CF33CA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLPT1snwpcVNFCRbeCPnQY9xARGFowwUgk1_pPmZzcJpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W152C5B213E155BFB93CF33CA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAPcQAM+vdOgEJXU7DcFf0uYHVZCYNtqHRYEjEcccXQNoRj1CEQ@mail.gmail.com>

I really value diversity of personal perspectives and opinions, associating
myself with people who think differently than me and express how they feel
by communicating in an open-ended way with the group.

Valentina, I greatly appreciate that you have added your voice to the
conversation, and seeing you have the will to express yourself gives me
courage to say something too. I derive substantial value from this
conversation, and it's not even related to Python.

Then again, it is related, in that we are brought together by our common
interest in communicating via this programming language. The language of
Python, like this user group, is defined in a way by the people
contributing to it.

I am grateful I have this soap box to try to spread good will.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Thanks for your input and advice well taken.
>
> As you know, I do not allow any diversity issues to eliminate me from
> opportunities.  Further, as I pursue my start-up, I cannot afford to allow
> diversity issues to impede my progress.  Therefore, I focus on the
> similarities as opposed to the differences.
>
> Nevertheless, as leader, I have to speak up when I encounter unwelcoming
> behavior.  I am very inclusive, especially in the technology space where I
> believe that technological innovations to solve humane problems will and
> require the human race.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:27:05 -0600
> From: nick271828 at gmail.com
>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> Beautifully put, Randy.
>
> Valentina, I understand what you say to mean that there is not racial,
> socioeconomic, gender, or Python skill-level diversity at ChiPy. What
> Randy's response says to me is that thinking of diversity in this way is
> only skin deep, and that people who otherwise look and sound similar are
> actually worlds apart in who they are underneath.
>
> You know one of the secrets to diversity too, introducing yourself and
> learning about the differences that make someone unique. Randy and I are
> white men who attend ChiPy and Open Gov Hack Night regularly, but from
> there we diverge. I have XXY chromosomes, presumably he has XY. He is 20
> years my senior, he loves brisket and I love candy, he is a self-described
> pointer while I'd say I'm a list of dicts, and so on.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> When one can no longer see or hear diversity then perhaps it will have
> been achieved.  You are unfortunately the only you I have met.  Have you
> ridden Blue, Red, Brown, Orange, Green, Pink, Red and Purple?  How about
> the 56, 80, 3, 151, 60?  Diversity to me is like hardware.  Beautiful and
> utilitarian while greatly divisional.  I greeted you and smiled at you.
>  Were you late to the meeting?  I sat next to you at a workshop at two
> locations.  Maybe I cannot fill your box for diversity.  You see I am the
> only me I know as well.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Brian:
>
> Thanks for the quick response.
>
> Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss
> welcoming ideas.
>
> Again, thanks.
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
> From: brianhray at gmail.com
>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to
> me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 01:04:26 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:04:26 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <BLU181-W152C5B213E155BFB93CF33CA9A0@phx.gbl>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwokG1Wogbvh=NCzG2mP45xiVHjrmjy++=x-7HVVTyf3Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7AB7CE19-C033-4EEA-8B8A-EBE74ABD422C@cornell.edu>
 <CAHCs_rZHKhuDgXKk60pqJL1NMw24DW-WNQLZSsLzFG_FjWMWCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38uh5U7hCF7z2hqKWwPHsVjF95cHgAF=dytn5G_ntzmvuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHCs_rY_apFRCBEqdr5=P4i8Tm6y-Hejhs4w3PBsm1nqwrOigQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38s7xMaoeLD7rTLqQnRvHNTjBzA4BspBSLmvYXkWT8DBbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwqobYSjbUUL248EqVgmC+JQ_d7QZP+RGJRYQ44jVtboVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W939307760C96F42F4692BFCA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CANKg38tHRo4JQvn4mUGKxZ+aV-CmhQEPOMqDAce3OWQPAPT5nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W406B0783F8AA8EF04512C0CA9A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAMqL=ij8GQdnd20Qp5AnnYLTxYsMitxMYR7XnTX6hXKuARY4ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPcQAMLPT1snwpcVNFCRbeCPnQY9xARGFowwUgk1_pPmZzcJpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <BLU181-W152C5B213E155BFB93CF33CA9A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ig3FQiiE3XhZEMU33+JCOXg1xG6sXFjMZRnkoF80kWT=A@mail.gmail.com>

If you have encountered some unwelcoming behavior from either ChiPy folks
or others I am sure those responsible for them would love to correct the
problem.  At all ChiPy meetings I have attended, despite not being the core
demographic I have been well greeted and met with nothing except
congeniality and hospitality.  I would think you would receive even warmer
welcomes and enthusiasm.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Thanks for your input and advice well taken.
>
> As you know, I do not allow any diversity issues to eliminate me from
> opportunities.  Further, as I pursue my start-up, I cannot afford to allow
> diversity issues to impede my progress.  Therefore, I focus on the
> similarities as opposed to the differences.
>
> Nevertheless, as leader, I have to speak up when I encounter unwelcoming
> behavior.  I am very inclusive, especially in the technology space where I
> believe that technological innovations to solve humane problems will and
> require the human race.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:27:05 -0600
> From: nick271828 at gmail.com
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> Beautifully put, Randy.
>
> Valentina, I understand what you say to mean that there is not racial,
> socioeconomic, gender, or Python skill-level diversity at ChiPy. What
> Randy's response says to me is that thinking of diversity in this way is
> only skin deep, and that people who otherwise look and sound similar are
> actually worlds apart in who they are underneath.
>
> You know one of the secrets to diversity too, introducing yourself and
> learning about the differences that make someone unique. Randy and I are
> white men who attend ChiPy and Open Gov Hack Night regularly, but from
> there we diverge. I have XXY chromosomes, presumably he has XY. He is 20
> years my senior, he loves brisket and I love candy, he is a self-described
> pointer while I'd say I'm a list of dicts, and so on.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> When one can no longer see or hear diversity then perhaps it will have
> been achieved.  You are unfortunately the only you I have met.  Have you
> ridden Blue, Red, Brown, Orange, Green, Pink, Red and Purple?  How about
> the 56, 80, 3, 151, 60?  Diversity to me is like hardware.  Beautiful and
> utilitarian while greatly divisional.  I greeted you and smiled at you.
>  Were you late to the meeting?  I sat next to you at a workshop at two
> locations.  Maybe I cannot fill your box for diversity.  You see I am the
> only me I know as well.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Valentina Kibuyaga <namusoke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Brian:
>
> Thanks for the quick response.
>
> Survey completed.  And, the next step will be to reach out and discuss
> welcoming ideas.
>
> Again, thanks.
>
> Valentina Kibuyaga
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:56:35 -0600
> From: brianhray at gmail.com
>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
>
> It is disheartening you felt unwelcome. Please take the survey
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5  Also, feel free to reach out to
> me offline and let's work together to make ChiPy more welcoming.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brian at python.org  Fri Feb 21 04:40:40 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:40:40 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all:
>
> I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>
> If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> that:
>
> You're an active Python developer with at least one public available example
> of work
> You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
> You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for the
> next 12 months
> You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> month.
>
>
> We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>
> Topics this week (in this order):
>
> Taking funds for Video (for carl)
> possible venues for next month
> review of surveys
> status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
> establishing Code of Conduct
> https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
> status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
> review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
> possible venues for next month
>
> If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
> requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this time does
> not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this meeting.
> That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.
>
> Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!

Anyone who is eligible for this meeting and feels like being a proxy
for me, you can do so by taking this email I was sent into
consideration: http://i.imgur.com/6OYzjAG.png

This is the person you have leading your group. "It ain't over 'till
it's over" is his position. Very telling.

From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 05:37:55 2014
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Adam "Cezar" Jenkins)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:37:55 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN6vQqveZA4s8pGYjkspg7oeFyC1Bg1zBEwRPFrpaxJg+-z8tA@mail.gmail.com>

Brian already relinquished total control to committee during the first
"board" meeting as far as I understand.

I'm really tired of the grandstanding and complaining going on around here.

Given that things will be run by committee, either volunteer or stop
complaining.

I had a lot more here, but I'm censoring it.
On Feb 20, 2014 8:41 PM, "Brian Curtin" <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey all:
> >
> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
> >
> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> > that:
> >
> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
> example
> > of work
> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
> the
> > next 12 months
> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> > month.
> >
> >
> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
> >
> > Topics this week (in this order):
> >
> > Taking funds for Video (for carl)
> > possible venues for next month
> > review of surveys
> > status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
> > establishing Code of Conduct
> > https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
> > status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
> > review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
> > possible venues for next month
> >
> > If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
> > requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this time
> does
> > not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this
> meeting.
> > That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.
> >
> > Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!
>
> Anyone who is eligible for this meeting and feels like being a proxy
> for me, you can do so by taking this email I was sent into
> consideration: http://i.imgur.com/6OYzjAG.png
>
> This is the person you have leading your group. "It ain't over 'till
> it's over" is his position. Very telling.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 05:46:32 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Just as a point of information Brian Curtain, do you write this as a ChiPy,
in the interest of the Python Foundation, in the interest of Rackspace or
for some other reason.  Yogi was being motivational and talking about
winning as a team.  Yogi was a character but one who found a way to work
and play with others and help them win.  Not sure at all what all the
sniping at Brian Ray is about or the politics or organizational
disagreements are.  Just as I have studied Python but in a much less
structured fashion this last year I have also studied the concepts of open
software and open government.  I am hoping we can all find a way to be open
and work and play to make each other winners.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey all:
> >
> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
> >
> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
> > that:
> >
> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
> example
> > of work
> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
> the
> > next 12 months
> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
> > month.
> >
> >
> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
> >
> > Topics this week (in this order):
> >
> > Taking funds for Video (for carl)
> > possible venues for next month
> > review of surveys
> > status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
> > establishing Code of Conduct
> > https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
> > status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
> > review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
> > possible venues for next month
> >
> > If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
> > requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this time
> does
> > not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this
> meeting.
> > That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.
> >
> > Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!
>
> Anyone who is eligible for this meeting and feels like being a proxy
> for me, you can do so by taking this email I was sent into
> consideration: http://i.imgur.com/6OYzjAG.png
>
> This is the person you have leading your group. "It ain't over 'till
> it's over" is his position. Very telling.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From brian at python.org  Fri Feb 21 06:06:46 2014
From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:06:46 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+XWwpop+LX1vrkNeUFwA6HLYddvK8qL+GzzW30wohN2dmJwg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just as a point of information Brian Curtain, do you write this as a ChiPy,
> in the interest of the Python Foundation, in the interest of Rackspace or
> for some other reason.  Yogi was being motivational and talking about
> winning as a team.  Yogi was a character but one who found a way to work and
> play with others and help them win.  Not sure at all what all the sniping at
> Brian Ray is about or the politics or organizational disagreements are.
> Just as I have studied Python but in a much less structured fashion this
> last year I have also studied the concepts of open software and open
> government.  I am hoping we can all find a way to be open and work and play
> to make each other winners.

I post as an individual. When I represent foundation business, I state
it. If I was representing Rackspace, I would state it, and I'd do the
writing from my company email.

I'm very, very familiar with Yogi Berra. I was a catcher through
college, and I think I even have a copy of The Yogi Book somewhere
around here. I know the tone of the email that the image was in
response to.

From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:07:22 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:07:22 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>

I don't really care for you coming at Brian Curtain, Randy.  He's done a
great deal for python software and the community in general.  Are you
somehow trying to delegitimize his opinions because ..... of all his other
commitments?


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Just as a point of information Brian Curtain, do you write this as a
> ChiPy, in the interest of the Python Foundation, in the interest of
> Rackspace or for some other reason.  Yogi was being motivational and
> talking about winning as a team.  Yogi was a character but one who found a
> way to work and play with others and help them win.  Not sure at all what
> all the sniping at Brian Ray is about or the politics or organizational
> disagreements are.  Just as I have studied Python but in a much less
> structured fashion this last year I have also studied the concepts of open
> software and open government.  I am hoping we can all find a way to be open
> and work and play to make each other winners.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hey all:
>> >
>> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in help
>> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>> >
>> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome provided
>> > that:
>> >
>> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
>> example
>> > of work
>> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
>> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
>> the
>> > next 12 months
>> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
>> > month.
>> >
>> >
>> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>> >
>> > Topics this week (in this order):
>> >
>> > Taking funds for Video (for carl)
>> > possible venues for next month
>> > review of surveys
>> > status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
>> > establishing Code of Conduct
>> > https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
>> > status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
>> > review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
>> > possible venues for next month
>> >
>> > If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
>> > requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this time
>> does
>> > not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this
>> meeting.
>> > That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.
>> >
>> > Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!
>>
>> Anyone who is eligible for this meeting and feels like being a proxy
>> for me, you can do so by taking this email I was sent into
>> consideration: http://i.imgur.com/6OYzjAG.png
>>
>> This is the person you have leading your group. "It ain't over 'till
>> it's over" is his position. Very telling.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:13:02 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:13:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAD+XWwpop+LX1vrkNeUFwA6HLYddvK8qL+GzzW30wohN2dmJwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpop+LX1vrkNeUFwA6HLYddvK8qL+GzzW30wohN2dmJwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+YkmGc5E_rd0ZTNo+Mk6++sD2njwN=tO7Vxh2mGCEKD1Q@mail.gmail.com>

And for the record, its a poisonous situation where several individuals
submit honest concerns in what purports to be a transparent forum and are
told they are "extremely negative" and "complaining".  The email Brian
Curtin got was pretty weak.  And frankly I'm not surprised.  Brain Ray was
equally dismissive and contemptuous at the last meeting when I confronted
him about telling Peter Fein he was in danger of "defamation".  I believe
the word he used then was "cowards" (and it was in reference to both Peter
Fein and Brian Curtain).  I recognize that bridges are being burnt here but
do yourself a favor, who ever reads this, go through the archive and grep
for how many times Brain Ray say "off list".  It doesn't have to be this
way.  This has devolved into a sad, petty embarrassment.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Just as a point of information Brian Curtain, do you write this as a
> ChiPy,
> > in the interest of the Python Foundation, in the interest of Rackspace or
> > for some other reason.  Yogi was being motivational and talking about
> > winning as a team.  Yogi was a character but one who found a way to work
> and
> > play with others and help them win.  Not sure at all what all the
> sniping at
> > Brian Ray is about or the politics or organizational disagreements are.
> > Just as I have studied Python but in a much less structured fashion this
> > last year I have also studied the concepts of open software and open
> > government.  I am hoping we can all find a way to be open and work and
> play
> > to make each other winners.
>
> I post as an individual. When I represent foundation business, I state
> it. If I was representing Rackspace, I would state it, and I'd do the
> writing from my company email.
>
> I'm very, very familiar with Yogi Berra. I was a catcher through
> college, and I think I even have a copy of The Yogi Book somewhere
> around here. I know the tone of the email that the image was in
> response to.
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:21:18 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:21:18 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>

I am not coming at anyone.  As stated just studying the process and looking
forward to the process making this an even better group though I have been
just overjoyed with what the group is already.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:07 PM, Daniel Peters <danieltpeters at gmail.com>wrote:

> I don't really care for you coming at Brian Curtain, Randy.  He's done a
> great deal for python software and the community in general.  Are you
> somehow trying to delegitimize his opinions because ..... of all his other
> commitments?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Just as a point of information Brian Curtain, do you write this as a
>> ChiPy, in the interest of the Python Foundation, in the interest of
>> Rackspace or for some other reason.  Yogi was being motivational and
>> talking about winning as a team.  Yogi was a character but one who found a
>> way to work and play with others and help them win.  Not sure at all what
>> all the sniping at Brian Ray is about or the politics or organizational
>> disagreements are.  Just as I have studied Python but in a much less
>> structured fashion this last year I have also studied the concepts of open
>> software and open government.  I am hoping we can all find a way to be open
>> and work and play to make each other winners.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Brian Curtin <brian at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hey all:
>>> >
>>> > I am holding an online meeting for those who expressing interest in
>>> help
>>> > organize ChiPy Every Sunday at 11am. It will be done Google Hangout.
>>> >
>>> > If you wish on attending, send me your email. Anyone is welcome
>>> provided
>>> > that:
>>> >
>>> > You're an active Python developer with at least one public available
>>> example
>>> > of work
>>> > You have attended at least 9 ChiPy meetings in the last 12 months.
>>> > You live in the greater Chicago land area and plan on staying here for
>>> the
>>> > next 12 months
>>> > You plan on attending the meeting every week, missing no more than 2 a
>>> > month.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We will verify these above details at the beginning of every meeting.
>>> >
>>> > Topics this week (in this order):
>>> >
>>> > Taking funds for Video (for carl)
>>> > possible venues for next month
>>> > review of surveys
>>> > status of legal issues (if we can say by then)
>>> > establishing Code of Conduct
>>> > https://github.com/chicagopython/chipy.org/issues/64
>>> > status of State Illinois request to renew non-profit
>>> > review of all financial statements since ChiPy was founded.
>>> > possible venues for next month
>>> >
>>> > If you feel strongly on any of these issues and you fit the above
>>> > requirements, please attend. If you really want to attend but this
>>> time does
>>> > not work for you, please find someone to proxy your request at this
>>> meeting.
>>> > That "someone" must also fit the above requirements.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks everyone for making ChiPy awesome!
>>>
>>> Anyone who is eligible for this meeting and feels like being a proxy
>>> for me, you can do so by taking this email I was sent into
>>> consideration: http://i.imgur.com/6OYzjAG.png
>>>
>>> This is the person you have leading your group. "It ain't over 'till
>>> it's over" is his position. Very telling.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:35:09 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:35:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38sgbEicMk5=w4Xa=n3YykStTkcmwZCxdHutLEzz_iygcA@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone noticed how windy it is tonight? Fun fact: Windy City was named
that way because of the politicians, not the weather.

I think I've done a terrible job if I started something I can not take my
hands off without it falling apart. I am actually trying to do this by
holding an open-to-everyone-who-qualifies organizer's meeting.  I take full
responsibility for my actions on and off this list. Also, I do not own
ChiPy. You do.

So before I go, last recommendation, if you want a voice, come participate
and vote on Sunday. If you don't want a voice, zip it :)
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:38:09 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:38:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Building Bridges
Message-ID: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>

I first heard this poem when I was about twelve at a credit union banquet.
 I have liked it ever since and think it speaks to the way I think the open
software movement is working toward being.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/237102
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From wirth.jason at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 06:55:11 2014
From: wirth.jason at gmail.com (Jason Wirth)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:55:11 +0900
Subject: [Chicago] Building Bridges
In-Reply-To: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>

I have only one question, what were you doing at 12 yrs old at a credit
union banquet?

I'll accept the answers: buffet or open bar. :)


-- 
Jason Wirth
    213.675.5294
    wirth.jason at gmail.com


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> I first heard this poem when I was about twelve at a credit union banquet.
>  I have liked it ever since and think it speaks to the way I think the open
> software movement is working toward being.
>
> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/237102
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From jp at zavteq.com  Fri Feb 21 07:04:54 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:04:54 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Building Bridges
In-Reply-To: <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRRPo+Tt1WO60qGUm=xLN=xBjqs7bWEFU+ARy9tmYnLgtA@mail.gmail.com>

What about the answer: listening to poetry?

C'mon, that has to happen at all the credit union banquets, no? This has to
be a thing!


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:55 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have only one question, what were you doing at 12 yrs old at a credit
> union banquet?
>
> I'll accept the answers: buffet or open bar. :)
>
>
> --
> Jason Wirth
>     213.675.5294
>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I first heard this poem when I was about twelve at a credit union
>> banquet.  I have liked it ever since and think it speaks to the way I think
>> the open software movement is working toward being.
>>
>> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/237102
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From japhy at pearachute.com  Fri Feb 21 07:47:12 2014
From: japhy at pearachute.com (Japhy Bartlett)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:47:12 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38sgbEicMk5=w4Xa=n3YykStTkcmwZCxdHutLEzz_iygcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sgbEicMk5=w4Xa=n3YykStTkcmwZCxdHutLEzz_iygcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANTsVH+b2nYKZ1KaZd11f9Keq67=ukOmc=32v6ZK9MQVTX=TNg@mail.gmail.com>

Will there be torches and pitchforks provided on Sunday or ?


On Thursday, February 20, 2014, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has anyone noticed how windy it is tonight? Fun fact: Windy City was named
> that way because of the politicians, not the weather.
>
> I think I've done a terrible job if I started something I can not take my
> hands off without it falling apart. I am actually trying to do this by
> holding an open-to-everyone-who-qualifies organizer's meeting.  I take full
> responsibility for my actions on and off this list. Also, I do not own
> ChiPy. You do.
>
> So before I go, last recommendation, if you want a voice, come participate
> and vote on Sunday. If you don't want a voice, zip it :)
>
>
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 08:07:09 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 01:07:09 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Building Bridges
In-Reply-To: <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=igp1Nc8M-v1+PgsM4tkersdkmaWfkemw_=ngGGBSP+WkA@mail.gmail.com>

I have been an entrepreneur at the micro scale since a child and as an
account holder in the credit union I had an equal vote with everyone else
in the union.  It was a night much like tonight and we could go through the
S&T line as often as we wanted

My dad was an SP man so I was a dh and there were
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_the_Pachucos ,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandidos_Motorcycle_Club to be avoided so the
CU and a small business was a good thing and we all got together once a
year an a knights of Columbus, VFW or the S&T as we did that night which
was very similar to tonight.  Menu was similar to
http://www.cleburnecafeteria.com/menu.html

There was an open bar but our family never bothered with it.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:55 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have only one question, what were you doing at 12 yrs old at a credit
> union banquet?
>
> I'll accept the answers: buffet or open bar. :)
>
>
> --
> Jason Wirth
>     213.675.5294
>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> I first heard this poem when I was about twelve at a credit union
>> banquet.  I have liked it ever since and think it speaks to the way I think
>> the open software movement is working toward being.
>>
>> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/237102
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 08:09:57 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 01:09:57 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Building Bridges
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRRPo+Tt1WO60qGUm=xLN=xBjqs7bWEFU+ARy9tmYnLgtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMqL=ih29nLDRdD+yWdCd0kJvMMxDp6yOOyUKzvwj54oA1U+CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEwvNMgn2_BHZPsxMZO-z0SgwA8NY5KyK+-4D6fStFfx2Xbhrg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRRPo+Tt1WO60qGUm=xLN=xBjqs7bWEFU+ARy9tmYnLgtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=igMWgJa1QvmxGt6V500P9RZ9R3+DQ9O9rPn9Sm538WdfA@mail.gmail.com>

Motivational speaker similar to Zig Ziglar spoke while we ate then we got
down to business of electing officers, approving budgets and considering
bylaw amendments.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:04 AM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> What about the answer: listening to poetry?
>
> C'mon, that has to happen at all the credit union banquets, no? This has
> to be a thing!
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:55 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I have only one question, what were you doing at 12 yrs old at a credit
>> union banquet?
>>
>> I'll accept the answers: buffet or open bar. :)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jason Wirth
>>     213.675.5294
>>     wirth.jason at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I first heard this poem when I was about twelve at a credit union
>>> banquet.  I have liked it ever since and think it speaks to the way I think
>>> the open software movement is working toward being.
>>>
>>> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/237102
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From peppers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 10:29:19 2014
From: peppers at gmail.com (Terry Peppers)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:29:19 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CANTsVH+b2nYKZ1KaZd11f9Keq67=ukOmc=32v6ZK9MQVTX=TNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sgbEicMk5=w4Xa=n3YykStTkcmwZCxdHutLEzz_iygcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVH+b2nYKZ1KaZd11f9Keq67=ukOmc=32v6ZK9MQVTX=TNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABYR-xnRc4T8GUBoVQPZNO1Xq0WuW8-WgDuMmAVvUHwNP6bXZw@mail.gmail.com>

Will an agenda and minutes be posted from these meetings?

< says the guy who isn't eligible, but lurks on this list >

If I can't attend - since I'm not eligible - I'd like to see the discussion
and/or output.

- t.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Japhy Bartlett <japhy at pearachute.com>wrote:

> Will there be torches and pitchforks provided on Sunday or ?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 20, 2014, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone noticed how windy it is tonight? Fun fact: Windy City was
>> named that way because of the politicians, not the weather.
>>
>> I think I've done a terrible job if I started something I can not take my
>> hands off without it falling apart. I am actually trying to do this by
>> holding an open-to-everyone-who-qualifies organizer's meeting.  I take full
>> responsibility for my actions on and off this list. Also, I do not own
>> ChiPy. You do.
>>
>> So before I go, last recommendation, if you want a voice, come
>> participate and vote on Sunday. If you don't want a voice, zip it :)
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 13:55:15 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:55:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CABYR-xnRc4T8GUBoVQPZNO1Xq0WuW8-WgDuMmAVvUHwNP6bXZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38taXF_VPzpxJN+Etu1ZsN1yAKKhcSucfUOQhA6qHzCtPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD+XWwpq=yqrTbkMhPjCM2pR6k8J=8MjMCAG2fdYR0U+qGDmvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=iiYtQd25--zwAw6mGGOdxrqweNinxsnwGC2WcsYhRHa1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHzLg+aTZ1KywvGM6-sbdwyrO8CX9wqkKup2g8O2mKuB6dBA=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMqL=ii+Z7Wob1y=xne-xOG9gjRFE3ZH+_WW-jqx-fpZCcEQqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANKg38sgbEicMk5=w4Xa=n3YykStTkcmwZCxdHutLEzz_iygcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANTsVH+b2nYKZ1KaZd11f9Keq67=ukOmc=32v6ZK9MQVTX=TNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABYR-xnRc4T8GUBoVQPZNO1Xq0WuW8-WgDuMmAVvUHwNP6bXZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38vXvr09zushRrp679SVM9wk-7ZvnHRi5D4cBcdViY7oTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday, February 21, 2014, Terry Peppers <peppers at gmail.com> wrote:

> Will an agenda and minutes be posted from these meetings?
>

Yes Terry minutes and action items will be stored here:

http://www.chipy.org/pages/chipy/board/

I bet the meetings will become public to attend after some things
are established. But that's up to the board.

Brian





-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From brianhray at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 17:27:47 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:27:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Last Survey Reminder
Message-ID: <CANKg38tf91RWO1Opc6WyZff1G+9G8asyAyr94K2TOkSv_vZoLw@mail.gmail.com>

There are currently 71 results on the survey. Lot's and lots of great
feedback. We are listening, we do care, and Thank you.

I will discuss with the other organizers and we will share a summary as
soon as we can.

Meanwhile if you have not done so far already, please do so now:

   https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LCCDQV5

We will stop collecting results for this quarter on Sunday at 11am.

Thanks, Brian



-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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From jleadbet at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 17:58:35 2014
From: jleadbet at gmail.com (Jennifer Leadbetter)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:58:35 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
Message-ID: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>

I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and this
discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like to
present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel to
be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
"diversity" from all sides of the issue:


1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"


It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're
all special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
reinforcing the exclusivity.


Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their whole
lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you want
diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
populations where you want to increase diversity.


2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was
totally welcomed."


First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When people
are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically affects
the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are to stick
with the activity).


What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to another
person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed, and you're
trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The best
response is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that perhaps
the group has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.


3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."


The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.


The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.


This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree. I
have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay on
the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the things I
learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when I
do show up, I feel welcome to participate.


I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to run
the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more of
the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the
organization. Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We
don't want you here".


I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several of
these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether they
fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from the
people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of people
you always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but perhaps
you'll get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of people.


And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D


Jen
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From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 18:41:15 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:41:15 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+Svw0VmQ9VkJYuzWGb0DhuCP1oUWK=8VEbusGMC-+rQ8gtDrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VmQ9VkJYuzWGb0DhuCP1oUWK=8VEbusGMC-+rQ8gtDrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0XkR50LujXsuO6N0ibVtFbe48SjkbNUGjaMiBaA2ayhJg@mail.gmail.com>

P.S. I am aware that does not deal with gender and race/culture
differences, but I;m still wondering if it would help.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jennifer, that was totally awesome!
>
> I don't participate much in Chipy any more because I moved out of
> state, but I still subscribe to the list because I learn so much. But
> I am also a member of several similar groups that lack diversity.
>
> Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
> of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
> old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
> avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter
> <jleadbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and this
>> discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like to
>> present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel to
>> be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
>> "diversity" from all sides of the issue:
>>
>>
>> 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
>> but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
>>
>>
>> It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
>> crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
>> tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're all
>> special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
>> reinforcing the exclusivity.
>>
>>
>> Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
>> diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
>> hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their whole
>> lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
>> personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you want
>> diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
>> populations where you want to increase diversity.
>>
>>
>> 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was totally
>> welcomed."
>>
>>
>> First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When people
>> are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically affects
>> the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are to stick
>> with the activity).
>>
>>
>> What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to another
>> person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed, and you're
>> trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The best response
>> is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that perhaps the group
>> has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.
>>
>>
>> 3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
>>
>>
>> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
>> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
>> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to come
>> back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take the
>> initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>>
>>
>> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
>> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
>> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to come
>> back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take the
>> initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>>
>>
>> This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
>> showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree. I
>> have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
>> and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay on
>> the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the things I
>> learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when I do
>> show up, I feel welcome to participate.
>>
>>
>> I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to run
>> the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more of
>> the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the organization.
>> Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We don't want you
>> here".
>>
>>
>> I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several of
>> these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether they
>> fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from the
>> people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of people you
>> always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but perhaps you'll
>> get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of people.
>>
>>
>> And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
>>
>>
>> Jen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 18:40:27 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:40:27 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0VmQ9VkJYuzWGb0DhuCP1oUWK=8VEbusGMC-+rQ8gtDrg@mail.gmail.com>

Jennifer, that was totally awesome!

I don't participate much in Chipy any more because I moved out of
state, but I still subscribe to the list because I learn so much. But
I am also a member of several similar groups that lack diversity.

Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter
<jleadbet at gmail.com> wrote:
> I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and this
> discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like to
> present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel to
> be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
> "diversity" from all sides of the issue:
>
>
> 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
> but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
>
>
> It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
> crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
> tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're all
> special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
> reinforcing the exclusivity.
>
>
> Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
> diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
> hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their whole
> lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
> personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you want
> diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
> populations where you want to increase diversity.
>
>
> 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was totally
> welcomed."
>
>
> First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When people
> are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically affects
> the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are to stick
> with the activity).
>
>
> What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to another
> person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed, and you're
> trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The best response
> is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that perhaps the group
> has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.
>
>
> 3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
>
>
> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to come
> back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take the
> initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>
>
> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to come
> back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take the
> initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>
>
> This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
> showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree. I
> have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
> and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay on
> the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the things I
> learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when I do
> show up, I feel welcome to participate.
>
>
> I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to run
> the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more of
> the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the organization.
> Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We don't want you
> here".
>
>
> I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several of
> these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether they
> fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from the
> people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of people you
> always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but perhaps you'll
> get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of people.
>
>
> And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
>
>
> Jen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 19:47:44 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:47:44 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PLR30ZAEQmsGBdb2R9QhNMWGnAYa0heXouhsasMfqVgQw@mail.gmail.com>

... and just when I've stopped looking at this thread, and thought of
completely silencing it (for a while at least), I see this gem from Jen...




On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:

> I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and this
> discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like to
> present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel to
> be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
> "diversity" from all sides of the issue:
>
>
> 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
> but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
>

Point, and goal:   self-awareness is good (as is self-acceptance);
 empathy, being able to read and appreciate other's experience is about
"connecting".   Disconnected groups ... well, aren't groups.  They
self-select for those "who all experience alike".

And if you're wondering "who cares? I mean, really - isn't this hair
splitting?" - then think about the analogy to design and interfaces - and
bugs:  failure to see use cases (experiences) from other perspectives
means... "fail".

To get good at code, get good at "loving-kindness" (including empathy,
welcoming behaviors, etc.).
It's irrelevant that "you think" you already know that, or get that - it's
only relevant how others perceive you getting them.


> It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
> crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
> tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're
> all special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
> reinforcing the exclusivity.
>
>
> Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
> diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
> hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their whole
> lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
> personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you want
> diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
> populations where you want to increase diversity.
>
>
> 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was
> totally welcomed."
>
>
> First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When people
> are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically affects
> the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are to stick
> with the activity).
>

There is a more general version of this, and it has roots in brain
structures, what drives us, and affect.  Dan Siegel (neuroscientist) in his
book about brain development in the "adolescent" stage (which he describes
as 12-24) talks about how the brain takes on and begins to mirror the
messages we hand it (intentionally or inadvertantly).

"Irresponsible teen" - is that kind of thing.
"Your not employable" w.r.t. financial crisis of 2008-2009 is that kind of
thing (think about the last time you stopped to talk to a homeless person
and treat them like a human;  how must that affect them - all day long -
from the receiving end).

This is fundamentals of social organization.

Jen is dead on.


>
> What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to another
> person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed, and you're
> trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The best
> response is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that perhaps
> the group has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.
>
>
> 3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
>
>
> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
> come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
> take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>

Another "point and goal".

Since "care" is from a fundamental brain structure, we look for that from
others before we join socially (play/joy).
See my diagram on http://gotlove2do.eventbrite.com


>
> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2). Asking
> the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
> come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
> take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>
>
> This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
> showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree. I
> have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
> and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay on
> the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the things I
> learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when I
> do show up, I feel welcome to participate.
>
>
> I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to run
> the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more of
> the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the
> organization. Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We
> don't want you here".
>
>
> I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several
> of these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether
> they fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from
> the people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of
> people you always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but
> perhaps you'll get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of
> people.
>

Open to whoever wants.

I am +1,000,000 on this.

Brian R.'s fears of "hijack by the noisy, ill-intentioned"  should be
moderated "by those who keep showing up".

(anyway, the general welcoming-ness or lack thereof, intentional or
unintentional, has me pretty much "out" for now, not interested).


>
> And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
>
>
> Jen
>

Thanks for the well reasoned comments Jen.



>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 19:55:42 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:55:42 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PLR30ZAEQmsGBdb2R9QhNMWGnAYa0heXouhsasMfqVgQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PLR30ZAEQmsGBdb2R9QhNMWGnAYa0heXouhsasMfqVgQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PJe6X9rtnN_ffhfxZU7cY1ao5eaOWQnSeya2X+cpjLyfA@mail.gmail.com>

to add to "I'm not interested for now" - for those who would think "have a
voice, or why speak?" -

To make the point clear (pushing "welcoming" to the boundary of "abuse", as
in not-welcoming == don't care):

The argument of "come if you want to speak" might be seen in the light of
"beatings will continue until moral improves" (hahaha), or "If you can't
take the abuse, then you can't possibly be allowed a voice against the
abuse" - isn't that sort of SM-y?

Making more sense?

Anyway, that's the general basis of my favoring Jen's inclusion
recommendations.



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> ... and just when I've stopped looking at this thread, and thought of
> completely silencing it (for a while at least), I see this gem from Jen...
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and
>> this discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like
>> to present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel
>> to be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
>> "diversity" from all sides of the issue:
>>
>>
>> 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
>> but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
>>
>
> Point, and goal:   self-awareness is good (as is self-acceptance);
>  empathy, being able to read and appreciate other's experience is about
> "connecting".   Disconnected groups ... well, aren't groups.  They
> self-select for those "who all experience alike".
>
> And if you're wondering "who cares? I mean, really - isn't this hair
> splitting?" - then think about the analogy to design and interfaces - and
> bugs:  failure to see use cases (experiences) from other perspectives
> means... "fail".
>
> To get good at code, get good at "loving-kindness" (including empathy,
> welcoming behaviors, etc.).
> It's irrelevant that "you think" you already know that, or get that - it's
> only relevant how others perceive you getting them.
>
>
>> It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
>> crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
>> tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're
>> all special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
>> reinforcing the exclusivity.
>>
>>
>> Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
>> diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
>> hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their whole
>> lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
>> personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you want
>> diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
>> populations where you want to increase diversity.
>>
>>
>> 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was
>> totally welcomed."
>>
>>
>> First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When
>> people are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically
>> affects the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are
>> to stick with the activity).
>>
>
> There is a more general version of this, and it has roots in brain
> structures, what drives us, and affect.  Dan Siegel (neuroscientist) in his
> book about brain development in the "adolescent" stage (which he describes
> as 12-24) talks about how the brain takes on and begins to mirror the
> messages we hand it (intentionally or inadvertantly).
>
> "Irresponsible teen" - is that kind of thing.
> "Your not employable" w.r.t. financial crisis of 2008-2009 is that kind of
> thing (think about the last time you stopped to talk to a homeless person
> and treat them like a human;  how must that affect them - all day long -
> from the receiving end).
>
> This is fundamentals of social organization.
>
> Jen is dead on.
>
>
>>
>> What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to
>> another person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed,
>> and you're trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The
>> best response is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that
>> perhaps the group has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.
>>
>>
>> 3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
>>
>>
>> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2).
>> Asking the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them
>> feel unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want
>> to come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
>> take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>>
>
> Another "point and goal".
>
> Since "care" is from a fundamental brain structure, we look for that from
> others before we join socially (play/joy).
> See my diagram on http://gotlove2do.eventbrite.com
>
>
>>
>> The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2).
>> Asking the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them
>> feel unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want
>> to come back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to
>> take the initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
>>
>>
>> This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
>> showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree. I
>> have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
>> and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay on
>> the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the things I
>> learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when I
>> do show up, I feel welcome to participate.
>>
>>
>> I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to
>> run the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more
>> of the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the
>> organization. Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We
>> don't want you here".
>>
>>
>> I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several
>> of these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether
>> they fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from
>> the people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of
>> people you always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but
>> perhaps you'll get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of
>> people.
>>
>
> Open to whoever wants.
>
> I am +1,000,000 on this.
>
> Brian R.'s fears of "hijack by the noisy, ill-intentioned"  should be
> moderated "by those who keep showing up".
>
> (anyway, the general welcoming-ness or lack thereof, intentional or
> unintentional, has me pretty much "out" for now, not interested).
>
>
>>
>> And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
>>
>>
>> Jen
>>
>
> Thanks for the well reasoned comments Jen.
>
>
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
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From jleadbet at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:49:51 2014
From: jleadbet at gmail.com (Jennifer Leadbetter)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:49:51 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 102, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
Message-ID: <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>

> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
> > of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
> > old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
> > avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>

I think this is a good idea. It may need a little tweaking, though:
suddenly springing the "Hey, if you're new, come up in front of all these
strange people and introduce yourselves right now" works for some people,
but not everyone. :D

What I've seen work really well is when you have groups where someone gives
an intro to the evening's events, introduces themself as an example, and
then has everyone else go around the room (or row by row, depending on how
the room is arranged). No one stands up; people can pass; and they just say
their name and a single-sentence summary of what they do or their
relationship to [Python, Scala, tropical penguins, or whatever the group is
about].  The last person to introduce themselves is the main speaker for
the night.

This removes the burden of old-timers needing to figure out or remember who
is new (and also mistakenly thinking someone is an old-timer when they're
not, or [worse] visa-versa). It takes the pressure off of newcomers who
might feel singled-out, and it allows them to make note of names of people
they might want to introduce themselves to after the meeting.

Of course, it isn't very suitable huge gatherings, and it may or may not
fit what people in ChiPy feel comfortable with, but provided people keep it
short (name, what you do, 15 seconds or less), I've seen it work for events
of 20-25 people.

It's an interesting thought. What do other people think about intros?

Jen
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From jleadbet at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 21:50:59 2014
From: jleadbet at gmail.com (Jennifer Leadbetter)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 13:50:59 -0700
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
Message-ID: <CACh0k-TBcN3zEaEyu9rbVumvp9rdQ7+0D7zLQ8AFOPsFYAioFw@mail.gmail.com>

...and I forgot to edit the subject heading on that last post... :P
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From yarkot1 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:04:03 2014
From: yarkot1 at gmail.com (Yarko Tymciurak)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:04:03 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 102, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ+Z=PJ7kGpyM1g_kG6JuSoo7-irD_=c4PgdKBuAVgS9LO17QA@mail.gmail.com>

ChiPy has seen 50-100 on a given night; having intros only sometimes seems
problematic...



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
>> > of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
>> > old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
>> > avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>>
>
> I think this is a good idea. It may need a little tweaking, though:
> suddenly springing the "Hey, if you're new, come up in front of all these
> strange people and introduce yourselves right now" works for some people,
> but not everyone. :D
>
> What I've seen work really well is when you have groups where someone
> gives an intro to the evening's events, introduces themself as an example,
> and then has everyone else go around the room (or row by row, depending on
> how the room is arranged). No one stands up; people can pass; and they just
> say their name and a single-sentence summary of what they do or their
> relationship to [Python, Scala, tropical penguins, or whatever the group is
> about].  The last person to introduce themselves is the main speaker for
> the night.
>
> This removes the burden of old-timers needing to figure out or remember
> who is new (and also mistakenly thinking someone is an old-timer when
> they're not, or [worse] visa-versa). It takes the pressure off of newcomers
> who might feel singled-out, and it allows them to make note of names of
> people they might want to introduce themselves to after the meeting.
>
> Of course, it isn't very suitable huge gatherings, and it may or may not
> fit what people in ChiPy feel comfortable with, but provided people keep it
> short (name, what you do, 15 seconds or less), I've seen it work for events
> of 20-25 people.
>
> It's an interesting thought. What do other people think about intros?
>
> Jen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From asl2 at pobox.com  Fri Feb 21 22:06:17 2014
From: asl2 at pobox.com (Aaron Lav)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:06:17 -0500
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>

1;3201;0cOn Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 01:49:51PM -0700, Jennifer Leadbetter wrote:
> What I've seen work really well is when you have groups where someone gives
> an intro to the evening's events, ...

> Of course, it isn't very suitable huge gatherings, 

My memory is that we used to do this (and ask people to mention their
favorite module), but I think current meetings are too large for intros
to be feasible.  (If we have distinct tables, like at the last meeting,
individual table introductions running in parallel might be feasible.
In general, this is a graph partitioning problem ...)


     Aaron "unicodedata" (asl2 at pobox.com)


From jp at zavteq.com  Fri Feb 21 22:13:51 2014
From: jp at zavteq.com (JP Bader)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:13:51 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 102, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <CAJ+Z=PJ7kGpyM1g_kG6JuSoo7-irD_=c4PgdKBuAVgS9LO17QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PJ7kGpyM1g_kG6JuSoo7-irD_=c4PgdKBuAVgS9LO17QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOL2cRTKYxmyrGyOvRN39At0o0UMo7SxNyLAd_iNme6+jeDakA@mail.gmail.com>

I think introductions are a great way to meet people, but often find it
more rewarding on a personal level to meet people individually, or in a
group of 2-3 folks. It definitely helps that I'm relatively extroverted.
But I have definitely met people who do not want to be in the limelight,
nor do they feel comfortable having to meet others. Maybe the talk sounded
interesting, or they want to work on a project with some people they know
might be there.

As a future greeter at the Chicago Python Workshops, I hope to make
introductions, help people feel comfortable meeting others, and assist with
projects however I can. Since there are multiple ongoing Chicago Python
opportunities (including, but not limited to office hours, workshops, et
al), it might be more comfortable to do introductions on smaller scales.




On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> ChiPy has seen 50-100 on a given night; having intros only sometimes seems
> problematic...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
>>> > of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
>>> > old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
>>> > avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>>>
>>
>> I think this is a good idea. It may need a little tweaking, though:
>> suddenly springing the "Hey, if you're new, come up in front of all these
>> strange people and introduce yourselves right now" works for some people,
>> but not everyone. :D
>>
>> What I've seen work really well is when you have groups where someone
>> gives an intro to the evening's events, introduces themself as an example,
>> and then has everyone else go around the room (or row by row, depending on
>> how the room is arranged). No one stands up; people can pass; and they just
>> say their name and a single-sentence summary of what they do or their
>> relationship to [Python, Scala, tropical penguins, or whatever the group is
>> about].  The last person to introduce themselves is the main speaker for
>> the night.
>>
>> This removes the burden of old-timers needing to figure out or remember
>> who is new (and also mistakenly thinking someone is an old-timer when
>> they're not, or [worse] visa-versa). It takes the pressure off of newcomers
>> who might feel singled-out, and it allows them to make note of names of
>> people they might want to introduce themselves to after the meeting.
>>
>> Of course, it isn't very suitable huge gatherings, and it may or may not
>> fit what people in ChiPy feel comfortable with, but provided people keep it
>> short (name, what you do, 15 seconds or less), I've seen it work for events
>> of 20-25 people.
>>
>> It's an interesting thought. What do other people think about intros?
>>
>> Jen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>


-- 
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:09:52 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0WKP13_w1G9mP+=u-k=PaJTVAhi06FJ0pf+q6hNKxOHmQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I mentioned the idea in the first place, I was thinking of
voluntary intros for new people, as in "any new people here who want
to introduce themselves?" Not to put anybody on the spot, nor to make
everybody introduce themselves. Could also be "anybody working on
something new that they would like to introduce?"

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:09:52 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0WKP13_w1G9mP+=u-k=PaJTVAhi06FJ0pf+q6hNKxOHmQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I mentioned the idea in the first place, I was thinking of
voluntary intros for new people, as in "any new people here who want
to introduce themselves?" Not to put anybody on the spot, nor to make
everybody introduce themselves. Could also be "anybody working on
something new that they would like to introduce?"

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:09:52 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0WKP13_w1G9mP+=u-k=PaJTVAhi06FJ0pf+q6hNKxOHmQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I mentioned the idea in the first place, I was thinking of
voluntary intros for new people, as in "any new people here who want
to introduce themselves?" Not to put anybody on the spot, nor to make
everybody introduce themselves. Could also be "anybody working on
something new that they would like to introduce?"

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:09:52 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0WKP13_w1G9mP+=u-k=PaJTVAhi06FJ0pf+q6hNKxOHmQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I mentioned the idea in the first place, I was thinking of
voluntary intros for new people, as in "any new people here who want
to introduce themselves?" Not to put anybody on the spot, nor to make
everybody introduce themselves. Could also be "anybody working on
something new that they would like to introduce?"

From bob.haugen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 22:09:52 2014
From: bob.haugen at gmail.com (Bob Haugen)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:09:52 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140221210617.GA3149@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Svw0WKP13_w1G9mP+=u-k=PaJTVAhi06FJ0pf+q6hNKxOHmQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I mentioned the idea in the first place, I was thinking of
voluntary intros for new people, as in "any new people here who want
to introduce themselves?" Not to put anybody on the spot, nor to make
everybody introduce themselves. Could also be "anybody working on
something new that they would like to introduce?"

From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 23:01:49 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:01:49 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Chicago Digest, Vol 102, Issue 33
In-Reply-To: <CAOL2cRTKYxmyrGyOvRN39At0o0UMo7SxNyLAd_iNme6+jeDakA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.35825.1393008944.18129.chicago@python.org>
 <CACh0k-TR-B=cBX_iyA1-B8JuipbKokz2n6C3v3hWDf373yz3=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJ+Z=PJ7kGpyM1g_kG6JuSoo7-irD_=c4PgdKBuAVgS9LO17QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOL2cRTKYxmyrGyOvRN39At0o0UMo7SxNyLAd_iNme6+jeDakA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=igFE49ZN5HfPiBVKZe6N4SFRC6Oh0Prh_PHuaqoXEUDaA@mail.gmail.com>

Diversity in Chicago certainly is not limited to skin color.  While I feel
our meetings are welcoming they are not the really social part of our
structure.  There is normally some time before and after where those who
are comfortable socially among those of us who may be socially inept
interact.  Our other activities are often even less social to the eyes of
those who do not see social in a bunch of folks quietly working on code or
talking geek speak of the pythonically differentiated didactic dialects.
 Nick thinks I am white and I am sure most others do as well but I am an
other.  Got a grin though in that he rounded his age down then took the
mean of our age differance and chopped it.

Back to the beginning statement and to the 77 U of C designated geographic
designations in Chicago that do not seem to follow any areal sense of
geography.  Enough said.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:13 PM, JP Bader <jp at zavteq.com> wrote:

> I think introductions are a great way to meet people, but often find it
> more rewarding on a personal level to meet people individually, or in a
> group of 2-3 folks. It definitely helps that I'm relatively extroverted.
> But I have definitely met people who do not want to be in the limelight,
> nor do they feel comfortable having to meet others. Maybe the talk sounded
> interesting, or they want to work on a project with some people they know
> might be there.
>
> As a future greeter at the Chicago Python Workshops, I hope to make
> introductions, help people feel comfortable meeting others, and assist with
> projects however I can. Since there are multiple ongoing Chicago Python
> opportunities (including, but not limited to office hours, workshops, et
> al), it might be more comfortable to do introductions on smaller scales.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Yarko Tymciurak <yarkot1 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ChiPy has seen 50-100 on a given night; having intros only sometimes
>> seems problematic...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
>>>> > of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
>>>> > old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
>>>> > avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think this is a good idea. It may need a little tweaking, though:
>>> suddenly springing the "Hey, if you're new, come up in front of all these
>>> strange people and introduce yourselves right now" works for some people,
>>> but not everyone. :D
>>>
>>> What I've seen work really well is when you have groups where someone
>>> gives an intro to the evening's events, introduces themself as an example,
>>> and then has everyone else go around the room (or row by row, depending on
>>> how the room is arranged). No one stands up; people can pass; and they just
>>> say their name and a single-sentence summary of what they do or their
>>> relationship to [Python, Scala, tropical penguins, or whatever the group is
>>> about].  The last person to introduce themselves is the main speaker for
>>> the night.
>>>
>>> This removes the burden of old-timers needing to figure out or remember
>>> who is new (and also mistakenly thinking someone is an old-timer when
>>> they're not, or [worse] visa-versa). It takes the pressure off of newcomers
>>> who might feel singled-out, and it allows them to make note of names of
>>> people they might want to introduce themselves to after the meeting.
>>>
>>> Of course, it isn't very suitable huge gatherings, and it may or may not
>>> fit what people in ChiPy feel comfortable with, but provided people keep it
>>> short (name, what you do, 15 seconds or less), I've seen it work for events
>>> of 20-25 people.
>>>
>>> It's an interesting thought. What do other people think about intros?
>>>
>>> Jen
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chicago mailing list
>>> Chicago at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Chicago mailing list
>> Chicago at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JP Bader
> Principal
> Zavteq, Inc.
> @lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
> 608.692.2468
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From danieltpeters at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 01:38:01 2014
From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 18:38:01 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+Svw0VmQ9VkJYuzWGb0DhuCP1oUWK=8VEbusGMC-+rQ8gtDrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Svw0VmQ9VkJYuzWGb0DhuCP1oUWK=8VEbusGMC-+rQ8gtDrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHzLg+ZY2BffOKZ86CzBhB4niLX8XiSp9Q60ZieTOteSf7QEMA@mail.gmail.com>

Jen Leadbetter you are so awesome.  Thank you so much for throwing this
into the conversation.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jennifer, that was totally awesome!
>
> I don't participate much in Chipy any more because I moved out of
> state, but I still subscribe to the list because I learn so much. But
> I am also a member of several similar groups that lack diversity.
>
> Do you think it would help to have an intro section at the beginning
> of each meeting where new people could introduce themselves and the
> old people could welcome them explicitly? (And then hopefully not
> avoid or dismiss them thereafter?)
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter
> <jleadbet at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I realize with the pace this mailing list moves, I'm a bit behind and
> this
> > discussion may be winding down. I'm mostly an observer, but I'd like to
> > present an outsider's perspective, because I've been seeing what I feel
> to
> > be some really poor responses to the concepts of "exclusivity" and
> > "diversity" from all sides of the issue:
> >
> >
> > 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
> > but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
> >
> >
> > It's true that everyone has something that makes them stand out from the
> > crowd. However, several studies have been done on organizations that have
> > tried to increase diversity by teaching "general diversity" (i.e., we're
> all
> > special). They don't work, and actually have the opposite effect of
> > reinforcing the exclusivity.
> >
> >
> > Being a hobbyist versus being a professional is not the same level of
> > diversity as, say, being an African American or being a woman, because
> > hobbyists probably haven't grown up with a "hobbyist" identity their
> whole
> > lives (and dealing with all the social ramifications that shaped their
> > personality and the way they interact with and view the world). If you
> want
> > diversity, you actually have to recognize and target the specific
> > populations where you want to increase diversity.
> >
> >
> > 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was
> totally
> > welcomed."
> >
> >
> > First, I recommend researching the phrase "stereotype threat". When
> people
> > are reminded that they're part of the "out" group, it drastically affects
> > the way they act, think and perform (and also how likely they are to
> stick
> > with the activity).
> >
> >
> > What's welcoming and friendly to you, may be completely hostile to
> another
> > person. You're obviously in the group because you feel welcomed, and
> you're
> > trying to figure out why other people don't feel welcomed. The best
> response
> > is to listen to what they have to say and acknowledge that perhaps the
> group
> > has unconscious behaviors you haven't experienced.
> >
> >
> > 3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
> >
> >
> > The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2).
> Asking
> > the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> > unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
> come
> > back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take
> the
> > initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
> >
> >
> > The problem isn't shyness. It's feeling unwelcome (see problem #2).
> Asking
> > the person to introduce themselves to more people that make them feel
> > unwelcome is not going to improve the issue and make the person want to
> come
> > back.  To fix the problem, people who already feel welcomed need to take
> the
> > initiative in meeting newcomers, not the other way around.
> >
> >
> > This whole discussion was started because people felt the criteria for
> > showing up to the meeting were too exclusive, and I'm inclined to agree.
> I
> > have no "skin in the game", so to speak, because I don't live in the area
> > and rarely come to ChiPy. But I do have a stake in the outcome -- I stay
> on
> > the list because I have friends in the organization and I love the
> things I
> > learn from being on the list. And I do want an organization where, when
> I do
> > show up, I feel welcome to participate.
> >
> >
> > I understand wanting a base level criteria for people who are going to
> run
> > the organization. But the criteria seem to self-select for keeping more
> of
> > the same 'exclusive' behavior in the guiding principles of the
> organization.
> > Even though it was unintentional, the message sent was "We don't want you
> > here".
> >
> >
> > I believe that the best course of action is to open up the first several
> of
> > these meetings to whoever wants to participate, regardless of whether
> they
> > fit the criteria, and then create a group of governing members from the
> > people who keep showing up.  Perhaps you'll get the same group of people
> you
> > always get, who meet the exact criteria you've outlined; but perhaps
> you'll
> > get what you've actually been asking for: a broader group of people.
> >
> >
> > And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
> >
> >
> > Jen
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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From tal.liron at threecrickets.com  Sat Feb 22 00:36:10 2014
From: tal.liron at threecrickets.com (Tal Liron)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 07:36:10 +0800
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-TBcN3zEaEyu9rbVumvp9rdQ7+0D7zLQ8AFOPsFYAioFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-TBcN3zEaEyu9rbVumvp9rdQ7+0D7zLQ8AFOPsFYAioFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5307E2EA.8090101@threecrickets.com>

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From brianhray at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 05:56:10 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 22:56:10 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACh0k-SSDLwNYExWCtemgt0mk=KPyWB-y0=rgwjWzHdfujoMjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKg38t1W9k9QLL9Ti6MHPXNyGLtbnp8tdX0nNTiNQ2hWk3P0A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jennifer Leadbetter <jleadbet at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> 1) "Diversity isn't just about skin color and gender. I may a white male,
> but I'm definitely different from other people in the group"
>
>
We have questions on our survey that will give us a clue on diversity.  If
you think it fails, provide better questions and we will incorporate them
in the next survey. I think you'll find the results fascinating when we
publish them next week. We can address specific areas based on these
results.


> 2) "Our group is completely friendly. When I came to the group I was
> totally welcomed."
>

I had a thought once on how to increase how welcoming we are to new
members. It had to do with moving around a lot to different venues.
However, I am getting older and tired. Finding interesting venues that
welcome different people is hard. Especially venues that are free and big
enough for us all. One of my favorite meetings was in my basement.
Regardless, it always feels like someone gets left out.

I have been organizing ChiPy for over 10 years now. I have missed only a
hand full of meetings. There have been times recently I have not felt
welcome. Sure, we need to fix this. I do not know how. I don't have the
magic sauce. All I can do is hope we fix it.

We recently have welcomed our own outreach person. She does a better job
than me at that. Let's see how it goes. Beyond a specific person, i guess
we all could do a better job being friendly. point taken.


3) "You just need to introduce yourself more."
>
>
> I like doing this. We try to do it often. It's not always practical. I
fear sounding like I am lecturing here; however, if you come to ChiPy
meetings more often you would already know we do this from time to time. My
point is to continue to participate. Be sure you come often so you get a
full breadth of what ChiPy has to offer. I'll be the first to admit it,
sometimes our meetings are flops, I take full responsibility for that--at
least up to this Sunday I will. Now its going to be everyone's job to make
meetings the best meetings ever.

I wonder what people on this list think of name tags?


>
> And now I'll go back to being a silent lurker. :D
>

Still waters run deep.

Last note on organizers meeting in regards to lurkers and those watching
from far. I totally want to make organizer's meetings open to the public;
however, we are at a bit of crisis still. Right now we need to Save Farris!
I would much rather to just restore order right now and address specific
short fallings as we go. Opening up an organizer's meeting that is public
right now will be too much for me to manage @@ Sorry folks. My super powers
usually end in ".py" and besides I know from years of experience how
everyone get's highly excited one month and two, three months from now I
find myself sitting in an organizer's meeting with just myself. No, we need
more commitment and organization this time. This list has already spoken.

Cheers, Brian
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From randy7771026 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 16:47:47 2014
From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:47:47 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Organizers Meeting
In-Reply-To: <5307E2EA.8090101@threecrickets.com>
References: <CACh0k-TBcN3zEaEyu9rbVumvp9rdQ7+0D7zLQ8AFOPsFYAioFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5307E2EA.8090101@threecrickets.com>
Message-ID: <CAMqL=igocr0quBEMGObYbk-Oy1YYQpxkxZWB9C3=9snjnE1OCw@mail.gmail.com>

True that Bro Lion.  Grab Moogli and head for the hills.  Time was all we
had to worry about was those liberal professors pervertin' the younguns
minds.  Now you got 'em wantin to go to Code School.  Blinded by the Red
Gem they are.  We must protect the weak among us.  Do not let anyone in
that cannot write Python interpreter snippets in machine language.  I heard
tell that some folks was talkin' bout compili' workin' code.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Tal Liron <tal.liron at threecrickets.com>wrote:

>  The best way to unite a diverse group of people is to have them face a
> common enemy.
>
> And so I ask, for how much longer must we suffer the Ruby progammer scum?
> It sickens me to breathe the same Illinois air as they do. Item #1 on
> ChiPy's agenda should be to find them cowering in their hiding holes in
> Chicago, smoke them out, and challenge them to a fight to the bit-death. To
> win, we will need our master hackers and hobbyists, our women and our men,
> our bisexuals and our monosexuals. The enemy we are facing is merciless,
> smug and smells like Perl: but our eggs, together, are stronger than their
> mightiest gems.
>
> pip install war!!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
>
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From emperorcezar at gmail.com  Mon Feb 24 15:10:58 2014
From: emperorcezar at gmail.com (Cezar Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 08:10:58 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Fw: Flourish Conference 2014
In-Reply-To: <20140222224635.9.14028@60e1a5ca-9f90-4b24-b414-477ff7c087e2.prvt.dyno.rt.heroku.com>
References: <20140222224635.9.14028@60e1a5ca-9f90-4b24-b414-477ff7c087e2.prvt.dyno.rt.heroku.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.530b52f2.625558ec.5233@Cezars-MacBook-Pro.local>

Reply:?sunil at flourishconf.com sunil at flourishconf.com
Date:?February 22, 2014 at 4:46:40 PM
Subject:? Message from contact form: Flourish Conference 2014  

The University of Illinois at Chicago Linux Users Group (UIC-LUG) and the University of Illinois at Chicago Association for Computing Machinery (UIC-ACM) are hosting their eighth annual Flourish! Conference promoting the adoption and use of Free, Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS). The UIC-LUG and UIC-ACM would like to invite you to speak at Flourish! 2014 about the adoption of open source beyond software, creative commons, etc?

Flourish! 2014 will be held?on Saturday, April 5th.?We expect the conference attendance to be around 300. We would appreciate it if you would let us know if you might be willing to speak at Flourish! 2014. If you have any questions about Flourish, please e-mail me at?sunil at flourishconf.com?and I will get back to you as soon as possible. You can also visit the Flourish! website athttp://www.flourishconf.com/?
I look forward to hearing back from you.
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From dinaldo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 15:49:44 2014
From: dinaldo at gmail.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:49:44 -0800
Subject: [Chicago] PyCon Startup Row Pitch Event at Braintree HQ Tonight at
	6:30
Message-ID: <CACvX9QCfFSPnE1vzyqQjLJR=PYrYqxPtiT7nYQ+tgwfCH6VgaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Folks, there's some more tickets available thanks to Adam Forsyth
hustling some more folks from Braintree to accompany us tonight.

Please make it. I'm changing up this event where I'm asking for minority
and women entrepreneurs who've had a hard time finding resources to launch
make a pitch to the community to connect. For all of these entrepreneurs
there's a need for development help.

I've written a blog post at my personal URL to explain why this is
personally important to me. I noticed folks were very interested in earlier
posts of diversity. I'm offering a perspective of mine as somebody who's
often felt like a stranger in my own land. I hope this helps further this
discussion and inspire some of you to come out and learn more about the
challenges women and minority entrepreneurs face. http://sheu.com/

Three of the entrepreneurs are female and minority. Ariana Vargas has been
working at GiveForward where while working with cancer funding campaigns
she learned of how hard it is for cancer patients to connect with available
resources. She wants to build an easily accessible resource to help people
in great pain and stress.

Dima Elissa and Nuha Nazy want to use 3D printing to make special medical
devices more affordable and of better quality and fit for patients facing
tough challenges with physical deformities.

Present on the panel will be Mike Vasquez. Mike did his undergrad at MIT in
materials science. He was also captain of the MIT baseball team, he pitched
on the team. Mike pursued his interest in technology in sports and earned
his Ph.D. at University of Longborough the UK's premier center for sports
technology. His specialty is sensors, sports technology, and 3D printing.
This year Mike will speak on ESPN's panel for sport and technology at SXSW.

If this content isn't enough to bring you out, I think Lagunitas give me
enough beer for a six pack for every attendee. Braintree is generously
providing nourishment.

Come by and connect with somebody new. Put a hand through the doorway and
pull somebody through it. It's the right thing to do.

Register here, hopefully before noon. It's a lot of work for building
security to process over 100 attendees. If you're preregistered we can
print badges for you and let you in quicker.

Thank you for your attention, Don Sheu

Here's a link for register, sign-up now,
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pycon-startup-row-pitch-event-at-braintree-hq-rsvp-now-for-free-admission-tickets-10610100095

-- 
Don Sheu
(312) 880-9389

  *Apply to join us at www.openforcetour.org
<http://www.openforcetour.org/>*

*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From eviljoel at linux.com  Wed Feb 26 04:35:59 2014
From: eviljoel at linux.com (eviljoel)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:35:59 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Code of Conduct Draft
In-Reply-To: <CANKg38u6fdPGb1-ZeJ22ZBw+NKYvSTRyKMgSVpu221Fo=KQVHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKg38u6fdPGb1-ZeJ22ZBw+NKYvSTRyKMgSVpu221Fo=KQVHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANttP86MMe27Lmd0veBOVyathWkSLftDfpt1-+EBBfqBgbrF+A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I don't know if this was decided on or not but I can't shoot any holes
through it.  The thing I hate to see in Codes of Conduct is anything
any one person finds offensive is not allowed.  This doesn't have
anything like that.

Laters,
eviljoel

On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Draft of code of conduct to be discussed at Sunday's meeting (if we get that
> far): http://www.chipy.org/pages/conduct/
>
> Feel free to make comments/corrections here so they can be considered when
> this is decided by committee on Sunday.
>
> Thanks! Brian
>
>
> --
> Brian Ray
> @brianray
> (773) 669-7717
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>

From brianhray at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 20:28:02 2014
From: brianhray at gmail.com (Brian Ray)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:28:02 -0600
Subject: [Chicago] Best Ever meeting, two weeks away
Message-ID: <CANKg38swREERJOhUDpGpaJa1Xh8_A50MroFSGxM6bHNoDJgQmQ@mail.gmail.com>

We have one talk proposal I will share with you once we have a couple more.

Please propose your talks!

http://www.chipy.org/meetings/topics/propose

-- 
Brian Ray
@brianray
(773) 669-7717
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