[Chicago] Status of recruiters on this list

Wed Mar 5 03:27:32 CET 2014

Replies inline.

-- 
Cezar Jenkins
@emperorcezar
From: JP Bader JP Bader
Reply: The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Date: March 4, 2014 at 4:36:01 PM
To: The Chicago Python Users Group chicago at python.org
Subject:  Re: [Chicago] Status of recruiters on this list  
Actually, after stewing on it for a bit, I rewrote it to avoid the attacking:

Pete - 

According to the minutes (which aren't available directly from the website, you either have to dig around or find a previous email can be found here: http://www.chipy.org/pages/chipy/board/), board members are:

1) Brian R
2) Adam B
3) Adam F
4) Randy B
5) Amber D
6) Jerry D
I agree. There should be an organization part of the website. Pull request welcome.

That said, as you pointed out, Chipy is not a PSF resource. This email list (chicago at python.org) is. 
I agree.

ChiPy is a privately owned club. 
Like a speakeasy? 

The chicago at python.org is FOR EVERYONE, not just ChiPy, and that said, I'd really like to see more people administering that email list. 
I might agree. I don’t know the history of it’s creation though. If it was created for ChiPy by the PSF, then it’s for ChiPy. If it was created for Chicago, then you’re right.

Honestly, over the last few weeks we have seen nasty emails chide members of our great community. This is not only distasteful, it does not improve our community. And though some rodents might have contributed to the groups drinking and eating, whether or not a recruiter wants to line those folks' pockets should not mean a recruiter should not have access to our community. Work pays the bills. Transparency keeps us honest.
“rodents”. I see what you did there.

"line those folks’ pockets”. Speaking of nasty emails.

The community as a whole deserves unimpeded and unfettered access to information. 
I agree. If mailman made this easier, it would be awesome. It might, but I don’t know how to access a list of emails and moderation actions.

Clearly chicago at python.org is a public list for anyone who wants to be involved in the python community in and around Chicago (or frankly anywhere in the world). That's the beauty of the internet, everyone everywhere should get to participate. If there are now controls in place to block the group from seeing what 1-2 people think are spam, then the problem is that private interests are trumping the group. 
See above about who the list was created for. Maybe there should be a chipy at python.org, or a discuss at chipy.org?

I would guarantee that many more than 1 or 2 people think that recruitment emails are spam. It’s very much a balance, and there have to be rules.

Unfortunately, reading the minutes from the club's board meetings thus far, it is truly enervating that a private board thinks it gets to decide information is disseminated to the community. The email does not belong to a club, it belongs to our community.
“Private board”. You’re being unduly harsh to people volunteering their time. These people were asked to be on the board, and while you may not agree with the “requirements”, there are those that do agree. I do think they are too harsh, and if there is not a framework in place to change them, then there should be.

Nowhere was it ever stated that those requirements will never change. Brian used those as a starting point. No starting point was ever going to be agreed upon by everyone.

If you don't care, then you aren't paying attention. 

It has been hard over the last few weeks to watch the email list get spammed with demands that anyone wishing to participate play by dictated rules, or be labelled a coward. After spending a fair amount of time to understand this behavior, I came to a peaceful conclusion that this isn't personal. 
I don’t see anyone being labeled a coward. By either “side".

I love the Python community, have learned a lot from different resources, and enjoy meeting people who are serious about learning and sharing. Thankfully I understand a lot more about ChiPy, how it's perceived, and am ok with that.

Instead of being upset, I wish remain a part of chicago at python.org, and that means participating in a community where there are workshops, office hours, learning opportunities, and even *gasp* job opportunities.

If the club owners wish to maintain control of their fiefdom, that's perfectly fine. It's under ownership, so why shouldn't they? 
The above sentence is uncalled for.

chicago at python.org is part of the community, and nobody has more right than Pete, or myself, or [insert name here], to see what's coming to the community. For that, we need ultimate transparency. If it isn't obvious to someone who sits on the board of PSF, then there is a serious problem. 

Regardless of how quickly the ChiPy club wishes to address this, if other people are interested in participating as mods of chicago at python.org, please request Cezar to add you to the list directly. This is your group too.

That said, Cezar, as a person who is committed to our community, learning, and participating in all things Python (when applicable) I am publicly requesting to be made an admin of the chicago at python.org mailing list.
Your request is heard, but since there is a ridiculous amount of “help! I’m being oppressed!” (see, I can write snarky comments too) going around then we _somehow_ need to determine the rules of what can come through the list. There is legitimate spam, there are people who accidentally attempt to post to the list with emails they don’t wish to be public, there are recruiters who’ve tried to post the same job multiple times in the same week.

I’m perfectly willing to add more admins to the list. I welcome it, as I don’t have a lot of time on my hands. But, there has to be some kind of policy of who can be an admin. Else a spammer can just become an admin and push through their own stuff.

I really don’t care how the group makes this decision. Could be a board, a dictator, or an internet poll. I do want to see a decision made though before I add anyone to the admin.

Regards,

JP

python >>> import this
"Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules."

*If you aren't participating because you don't want to be bullied, then you are paying attention!

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Peter Fein <pete at wearpants.org> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a current action item to review this process (moderation of mailing
> list) by the ChiPy board. As it stands until then:

I'm still waiting to know who the mysterious members of this board are
that are making these decisions on the community's behalf about how a
PSF resource is used.
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--
JP Bader
Principal
Zavteq, Inc.
@lordB8r | jp at zavteq.com
608.692.2468
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