[Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.

Tanya Schlusser tanya at tickel.net
Fri Dec 2 13:27:41 EST 2016


For the Java-to-Python,  Luciano Ramalho's Fluent Python (
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032519.do) specifically was written
for émigrés from other languages :-) and apparently knocks it out of the
park.


For the Python-to-Java; implementing the same thing in different
languages/APIs was a job requirement for me ... we tested ideas in Python,
then the junior people (me...) had to translate to a different language for
production...it was a fast way to bypass conceptual questions and cut
straight to the differences between languages.


Maybe try converting a Hadoop streaming job using Python to Java?
Here's a Python entry point (this is for the old API but the newer docs are
confusing to me):
http://docs.aws.amazon.com/ElasticMapReduce/latest/DeveloperGuide/UseCase_Streaming.html




On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:00 AM, <chicago-request at python.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Teaching Java people Python. (Jason Wirth)
>    2. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Jordan Bettis)
>    3. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Tathagata Dasgupta)
>    4. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Carl Karsten)
>    5. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Randy Baxley)
>    6. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Michael Tamillow)
>    7. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Allan LeSage)
>    8. Re: Teaching Java people Python. (Chris Foresman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:14:15 +0000
> From: Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID:
>         <CAEwvNMibfucHo3hehdyK1DF6BqNCg-MFSF59oNEe++OEFX9_GQ at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a specific
> go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting time on basic
> programming concepts.
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 18:20:59 -0600
> From: Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org>
> To: chicago at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID: <5840BE6B.3070705 at hafd.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> The tutorial on python.org is a reasonably good intro and it doesn't
> waste a lot of time trying to explain what an if statement is:
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements
>
> Python has an interactive shell but I'd recommend installing ipython if
> you want to use it to work through the examples.
>
> On 12/01/2016 06:14 PM, Jason Wirth wrote:
> > Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> > specific go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting
> > time on basic programming concepts.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:43:33 +0000
> From: Tathagata Dasgupta <tathagatadg at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID:
>         <CAB32_MNv+dc-9udnaHQgqX2YvuK3gH7Q-+CWgrj5RODyXSPJiw at mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I think Jason is talking about people who write Python that smell
> (terribly) of Java (version < 8).
> We happen to know quite a few who do this ;)
> Other than Raymond Hettinger's famous pycon 2013 talk
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go>, this
> <http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html> article, what
> would
> you recommend?
> I think talking to some of these seasoned Java developers in the language
> of design patterns could work.
> Alex Martelli's talk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJJlVBVTFg> on
> Python design patterns.
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
>
> > The tutorial on python.org is a reasonably good intro and it doesn't
> > waste a lot of time trying to explain what an if statement is:
> >
> > https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements
> >
> > Python has an interactive shell but I'd recommend installing ipython if
> > you want to use it to work through the examples.
> >
> >
> > On 12/01/2016 06:14 PM, Jason Wirth wrote:
> >
> > Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> specific
> > go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting time on
> basic
> > programming concepts.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/
> listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 19:02:30 -0600
> From: Carl Karsten <carl at personnelware.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID:
>         <CADmzSSih3_V38EOXfw4vH9Ei0Wb2L+oLMpU-
> UY0mYwyNZk2S8Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> "Using Ripley and Python's Read Evaluate Print Loop, lead a group though
> the basic Python syntax. The assumption is they know about programming and
> need to be introduced to Python."  - https://github.com/CarlFK/Ripley/
>
> > addresses the differences
>
> I wonder if that is really a good use of time.  That sounds to me like
> "forget what you have learned over the last 5 years" which is going to be
> really hard.
>
> I suspect time is better used just teaching good python.
>
> But I should leave this to someone who has studied how to teach.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Tathagata Dasgupta <tathagatadg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think Jason is talking about people who write Python that smell
> > (terribly) of Java (version < 8).
> > We happen to know quite a few who do this ;)
> > Other than Raymond Hettinger's famous pycon 2013 talk
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go>, this
> > <http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html> article, what
> > would you recommend?
> > I think talking to some of these seasoned Java developers in the language
> > of design patterns could work.
> > Alex Martelli's talk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJJlVBVTFg> on
> > Python design patterns.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The tutorial on python.org is a reasonably good intro and it doesn't
> >> waste a lot of time trying to explain what an if statement is:
> >>
> >> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements
> >>
> >> Python has an interactive shell but I'd recommend installing ipython if
> >> you want to use it to work through the examples.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/01/2016 06:14 PM, Jason Wirth wrote:
> >>
> >> Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> >> specific go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting
> time
> >> on basic programming concepts.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/
> listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl K
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 19:20:58 -0600
> From: Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID:
>         <CAMqL=ihSgv8XHC_FHnrGFtCPfchhP5OKYX_ba0R2H=VEt
> fOiaw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Beazley's 2013 Pycon talk might be a good jump start
> http://pyvideo.org/pycon-us-2013/learn-python-through-
> public-data-hacking.html
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> specific
> > go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting time on
> basic
> > programming concepts.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 23:38:15 -0600
> From: Michael Tamillow <mikaeltamillow96 at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID: <E713DA93-27CD-4EEA-82C4-2A45E6B6241F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Just on the topic of learning new things, I think it is a good idea to
> follow the same paths as people who are already doing it - skip forward
> when things are too easy, and step back when things become difficult to
> comprehend.
>
> But I would say the best way to make a jump like that is to just read
> source code. Ask questions about the source code through google. There are
> tons of mature packages already with anaconda, just bust one open and try
> to understand it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 1, 2016, at 7:20 PM, Randy Baxley <randy7771026 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Beazley's 2013 Pycon talk might be a good jump start
> http://pyvideo.org/pycon-us-2013/learn-python-through-
> public-data-hacking.html
> >
> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Jason Wirth <wirth.jason at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> specific go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting time
> on basic programming concepts.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 09:12:14 -0600
> From: Allan LeSage <allanlesage at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID:
>         <CACrkd54vU4xJXjgcUwv-Vdwu_GA3XYJMxEM1MR3yKxMGwutiPg@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Concerning Java smells, this Stop Writing Classes
> <http://pyvideo.org/pycon-us-2012/stop-writing-classes.html> talk really
> emphasizes the clarity and simplicity of Python for devs who come from more
> verbose langs.
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Tathagata Dasgupta <tathagatadg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think Jason is talking about people who write Python that smell
> > (terribly) of Java (version < 8).
> > We happen to know quite a few who do this ;)
> > Other than Raymond Hettinger's famous pycon 2013 talk
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go>, this
> > <http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html> article, what
> > would you recommend?
> > I think talking to some of these seasoned Java developers in the language
> > of design patterns could work.
> > Alex Martelli's talk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJJlVBVTFg> on
> > Python design patterns.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org> wrote:
> >
> >> The tutorial on python.org is a reasonably good intro and it doesn't
> >> waste a lot of time trying to explain what an if statement is:
> >>
> >> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements
> >>
> >> Python has an interactive shell but I'd recommend installing ipython if
> >> you want to use it to work through the examples.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/01/2016 06:14 PM, Jason Wirth wrote:
> >>
> >> Say a hard-core Java programmer wants to learn Python. Is there a
> >> specific go-to resource that addresses the differences without wasting
> time
> >> on basic programming concepts.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing listChicago at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/
> listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 09:42:16 -0600
> From: Chris Foresman <foresmac at gmail.com>
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Teaching Java people Python.
> Message-ID: <2A938CBA-8BF3-47C2-9120-8C1742EA0D08 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> What would you recommend for Python devs that need to learn Java (besides
> applying for a different job :P )?
>
>
> Chris Foresman
> foresmac at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Allan LeSage <allanlesage at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Concerning Java smells, this Stop Writing Classes <
> http://pyvideo.org/pycon-us-2012/stop-writing-classes.html> talk really
> emphasizes the clarity and simplicity of Python for devs who come from more
> verbose langs.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Tathagata Dasgupta <
> tathagatadg at gmail.com <mailto:tathagatadg at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I think Jason is talking about people who write Python that smell
> (terribly) of Java (version < 8).
> > We happen to know quite a few who do this ;)
> > Other than Raymond Hettinger's famous pycon 2013 talk <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go>, this <
> http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html> article, what
> would you recommend?
> > I think talking to some of these seasoned Java developers in the
> language of design patterns could work.
> > Alex Martelli's talk <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJJlVBVTFg> on
> Python design patterns.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:29 PM Jordan Bettis <jordanb at hafd.org <mailto:
> jordanb at hafd.org>> wrote:
> > The tutorial on python.org <http://python.org/> is a reasonably good
> intro and it doesn't waste a lot of time trying to explain what an if
> statement is:
> >
> > https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements <
> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#if-statements>
> >
> > Python has an interactive shell but I'd recommend installing ipython if
> you want to use it to work through the examples.
> >
> >
> > On 12/01/2016 06:14 PM, Jason Wirth wrote:
> >> Say a hard-core Java programmer
> >>         wants to learn Python. Is there a specific go-to resource that
> >>         addresses the differences without wasting time on basic
> >>         programming concepts.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago <
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago <
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org <mailto:Chicago at python.org>
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago <
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>
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