From joe.jasinski at gmail.com Tue Apr 9 08:56:05 2019 From: joe.jasinski at gmail.com (Joe Jasinski) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 07:56:05 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] ChiPy Apirl 2019 Main Meeting Message-ID: Hi ChiPy, Our April ChiPy Main meeting is just around the corner. We have some great talks planned for this meeting. Make sure that that you've registered for what is sure to be a great meeting! Thank you to Numerator for hosting us this month! *When:*Thus April 11, 2019, 6 p.m. 6:00pm Doors open 6:30pm: Meeting starts *How:*You can RSVP at chipy.org by noon the day of the event. *Where:* Numerator 233 S Wacker Dr, Chicago, IL 60606 Please check-in at security and proceed to the elevators for the 33rd floor. The event will be held up on the 34th floor which can be accessed via stairs or a separate elevator. *What:* - - *Plug-n-Stream Player Piano: Signal Processing With Python* By: JP Bader Digital Signal Processing and Player Piano don't normally come together in the same sentence. Player Pianos that are 100+ years old are awesome artisan artifacts, but they don't play digital formats very well. This talk will show how we take a 100+ year old technology and marry it to the digital age via Python libraries and precision lasers! In this discussion we will cover how we are creating our own "Plug-n-Stream Player Piano". We will take a look at the different digital signal processing Python libraries, their functionality, and requirements for converting audio streams to piano playable audio files. After a brief walk through of our prototyped hardware, we will dissect the digital signal processing, converting streaming music to data for the Player Piano. With a real Player Piano in the room we will demo streaming music from our devices onto the piano. LIVE(ish) Piano Playing! - *Throw away your shell scripts* By: Nick Timkovich One of the most common languages used by Python developers is some shell script (sh, bash, cmd.exe, or PowerShell), but why torture yourself with poor design decisions from the 70s when you know Python? - *Starting Your Data Science Journey* By: Aaron Yang There have been great talks in Chipy showcasing the amazing new technologies people are using with python, but we often forget where we first started. Some of you all are coming to Chipy for the first time and hoping to take your first steps into the world of tech. This talk will be targeted towards people looking to transition their career or the rest of us looking to find community in the continual gauntlet of developing our skills in the tech industry. I'll be showcasing my process and my thoughts on developing your skills. - *Empowering Early-Career Developers* By: Mercedes Bernard How can teams invest in and grow their less experienced developers into team-leading senior devs? I believe the first step is empowering them. On my team, we?ve created a process for each team member to lead and own one of our core features. Our early-career developers are learning client management and team leadership skills that they wouldn?t usually get to practice until they stepped into a senior role. In this talk, I?ll share what we?ve learned and a framework for you to create a process tailored to your team so you can provide your early-career developers the opportunities they need to become successful, senior team members. *Thank you always to all our sponsors, including our Diamond sponsors: Metis and TelnyxAlso thank you to our Platinum sponsors: Braintree, Imaginary Landscape, Lumere, and Signature Consultants. Also, thank you to our Silver sponsor: Markit.Please be aware of our code of conduct http://www.chipy.org/pages/conduct/ * -- Joe J. Jasinski www.joejasinski.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at wiphone.io Sun Apr 14 12:14:35 2019 From: ben at wiphone.io (Ben Wilson) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 09:14:35 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able to make their own custom module. Kickstarter link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk recent Reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. -Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zitterbewegung at gmail.com Mon Apr 15 00:32:37 2019 From: zitterbewegung at gmail.com (Joshua Herman) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 23:32:37 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: > > Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. > > I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able to make their own custom module. > > Kickstarter link: > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk > > recent Reddit discussion: > https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project > > build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone > > Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. > > -Ben > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robkapteyn at gmail.com Sat Apr 20 20:55:44 2019 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 19:55:44 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. I do have a complaint however --- DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality that Micropython simply does not have. I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was misled in exactly this way. Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman wrote: > Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? > > You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be > expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen > similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: > > Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The > firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. > > I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping > you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The > hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a > PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, > except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able > to make their own custom module. > > Kickstarter link: > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk > > > recent Reddit discussion: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project > > build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone > > Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. > > -Ben > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikaeltamillow96 at gmail.com Sat Apr 20 21:53:24 2019 From: mikaeltamillow96 at gmail.com (Michael Tamillow) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 20:53:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: Rob, why would you say micropython is not python? Python is a language, not an interpreter - not all the packages and code that are compatible with version X.X.X With that type of argument, we could say python 2, 3 Rpython, or even Cpython may not be python. Python is a language - it?s existence on a piece of paper is still python. What core python syntax would look different on paper when writing micropython? > On Apr 20, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > > I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone > > I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. > > I do have a complaint however --- > DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. > Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality that Micropython simply does not have. > > I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was misled in exactly this way. > > Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? > THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. > > Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) > > > > >> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman wrote: >> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >> >> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >>> >>> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >>> >>> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able to make their own custom module. >>> >>> Kickstarter link: >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >>> >>> recent Reddit discussion: >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >>> >>> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >>> >>> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >>> >>> -Ben >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randy7771026 at gmail.com Sat Apr 20 22:41:59 2019 From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 21:41:59 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good to 'see' you Rob. This thread is very interesting to me. Would service providers like AT&T still provide a SIM card and standard plans? Randy On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:56 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: > I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come > with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): > > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone > > I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. > > I do have a complaint however --- > DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. > Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but > -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality > that Micropython simply does not have. > > I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was > misled in exactly this way. > > Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? > THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. > > Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) > > > > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman > wrote: > >> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >> >> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be >> expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen >> similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >> >> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The >> firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >> >> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping >> you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The >> hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a >> PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, >> except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able >> to make their own custom module. >> >> Kickstarter link: >> >> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >> >> >> recent Reddit discussion: >> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >> >> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >> >> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >> >> -Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robkapteyn at gmail.com Sat Apr 20 23:02:41 2019 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 22:02:41 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is an issue that has been discussed before. I did a quick search and couldn't find it. "Python" is a trademark of the PSF. It is not just a language syntax. Python has always been promoted as the language with "batteries included". That generally means that it MUST be shipped WITH the standard library. Micropython does not ship with the full standard library. On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 8:53 PM Michael Tamillow wrote: > Rob, why would you say micropython is not python? > > Python is a language, not an interpreter - not all the packages and code > that are compatible with version X.X.X > > With that type of argument, we could say python 2, 3 Rpython, or even > Cpython may not be python. > > Python is a language - it?s existence on a piece of paper is still python. > > What core python syntax would look different on paper when writing > micropython? > > > On Apr 20, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > > I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come > with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): > > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone > > I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. > > I do have a complaint however --- > DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. > Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but > -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality > that Micropython simply does not have. > > I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was > misled in exactly this way. > > Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? > THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. > > Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) > > > > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman > wrote: > >> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >> >> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be >> expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen >> similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >> >> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The >> firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >> >> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping >> you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The >> hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a >> PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, >> except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able >> to make their own custom module. >> >> Kickstarter link: >> >> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >> >> >> recent Reddit discussion: >> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >> >> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >> >> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >> >> -Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robkapteyn at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 00:19:35 2019 From: robkapteyn at gmail.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 23:19:35 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Randy, good to "see" you too. You back in Texas ? I do not have a Makerphone yet. The people making it are young and in Croatia. They seem to have their act together, but they have been swamped by the huge response they got when it started in November. It seems like lots of people are interested in a cellphone that does only what you want, and can't be easily hacked to spy on you ;) Their FAQ page answers most of those questions: makerphone faqs I don't know how US carriers will deal with the lack of 911 location, etc. I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to mess with it. - Rob On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 9:43 PM Randy Baxley wrote: > Good to 'see' you Rob. > > This thread is very interesting to me. Would service providers like AT&T > still provide a SIM card and standard plans? > > Randy > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:56 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: > >> I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come >> with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): >> >> >> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone >> >> I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. >> >> I do have a complaint however --- >> DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. >> Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but >> -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality >> that Micropython simply does not have. >> >> I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was >> misled in exactly this way. >> >> Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? >> THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. >> >> Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman >> wrote: >> >>> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >>> >>> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be >>> expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen >>> similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >>> >>> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The >>> firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >>> >>> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of >>> trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). >>> The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone >>> is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project >>> Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be >>> able to make their own custom module. >>> >>> Kickstarter link: >>> >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >>> >>> >>> recent Reddit discussion: >>> >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >>> >>> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >>> >>> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >>> >>> -Ben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikaeltamillow96 at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 08:16:24 2019 From: mikaeltamillow96 at gmail.com (Michael Tamillow) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:16:24 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F0E72F8-1F13-450E-B889-1845D65B2893@gmail.com> Well, I don?t imagine you will change your mind. But I do think it is a poorly constructed argument to reference previous discussions that you can?t find. Happy Easter! > On Apr 20, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > > This is an issue that has been discussed before. > I did a quick search and couldn't find it. > > "Python" is a trademark of the PSF. > It is not just a language syntax. > Python has always been promoted as the language with "batteries included". > That generally means that it MUST be shipped WITH the standard library. > > Micropython does not ship with the full standard library. > > >> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 8:53 PM Michael Tamillow wrote: >> Rob, why would you say micropython is not python? >> >> Python is a language, not an interpreter - not all the packages and code that are compatible with version X.X.X >> >> With that type of argument, we could say python 2, 3 Rpython, or even Cpython may not be python. >> >> Python is a language - it?s existence on a piece of paper is still python. >> >> What core python syntax would look different on paper when writing micropython? >> >> >>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Rob Kapteyn wrote: >>> >>> I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): >>> >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone >>> >>> I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. >>> >>> I do have a complaint however --- >>> DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. >>> Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- but -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf functionality that Micropython simply does not have. >>> >>> I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I was misled in exactly this way. >>> >>> Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? >>> THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. >>> >>> Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman wrote: >>>> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >>>> >>>> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be able to make their own custom module. >>>>> >>>>> Kickstarter link: >>>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >>>>> >>>>> recent Reddit discussion: >>>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >>>>> >>>>> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >>>>> >>>>> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >>>>> >>>>> -Ben >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Chicago mailing list >>>>> Chicago at python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at wiphone.io Sun Apr 21 03:35:04 2019 From: ben at wiphone.io (Ben Wilson) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 00:35:04 -0700 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: Rob: As someone who's still kind of grumpy about Python 3, I hear what you're saying. But at the same time, taking on this project has made clear to me a few things that weren't apparent when I only worked on the engineering side of things. One of those is people only click on simple, easily understood headlines. Another is no matter what you do, someone will be unhappy about your methods. At least part of the reason I don't say MicroPython everywhere is because we actually still haven't made a decision on: - MicroPython - CircuitPython - fork one of them and make our own stable code base (possibly named something else) Including all of that in the marketing materials, as factual and informative as it is, would drown in details or at least confuse probably 90% of the people interested in our project. Some other topics that seem to irritate people are the lack of cellular radio (I've lost count of how many times I've had to argue semantics on what's allowed to be called a phone), and using the phrase "open source". BTW, if you ever make a hardware project that doesn't plan to release the source until the hardware ships, be prepared to withstand the spanish inquisition, questions about your moral character, and a general inability to have a conversation about anything remotely related to the project itself if a certain type of personality finds your project and decides it's not allowed to be called open source until the source is actually released. If I included disclaimers to fully inform all of those kinds of people in the headline, just the name of the phone would be a couple paragraphs :). Raspberry Pi: From a hardware manufacturing standpoint it's an evolutionary dead end. The hardware is subsidized for the general public. If you want to make a commercial product based around the same design, you're stuck with this weird manufacturing-to-retail-back-to-manufacturing supply chain that really only works for projects at the hobby level. However, the WiPhone is the first step along a set of plans that increase in complexity, so stay tuned. Cellular Modem: We have a list of add-on modules that we'll make available once the base design ships, and LTE is at the top of the list. Rather than build it into the phone (which would greatly increase cost, complexity, and make it overall much less of a device you can control and secure), we decided to limit the scope and design something we could deliver in a reasonable time frame. Plus, if you want to use phones to hack into *other* stuff, you don't necessarily need or want the radio, you just want the durable, easy to understand form factor of a phone. Another big one people are asking for is security features, like encryption, so we'll be working on both of those once the present work involved in shipping the phone itself calms down. On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 9:19 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: > Hi Randy, good to "see" you too. You back in Texas ? > > I do not have a Makerphone yet. > The people making it are young and in Croatia. > They seem to have their act together, but they have been swamped by the > huge response they got when it started in November. > It seems like lots of people are interested in a cellphone that does only > what you want, and can't be easily hacked to spy on you ;) > > Their FAQ page answers most of those questions: > makerphone faqs > > > I don't know how US carriers will deal with the lack of 911 location, etc. > > I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to > mess with it. > > - Rob > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 9:43 PM Randy Baxley > wrote: > >> Good to 'see' you Rob. >> >> This thread is very interesting to me. Would service providers like AT&T >> still provide a SIM card and standard plans? >> >> Randy >> >> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:56 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: >> >>> I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come >>> with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): >>> >>> >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone >>> >>> I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. >>> >>> I do have a complaint however --- >>> DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. >>> Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- >>> but -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf >>> functionality that Micropython simply does not have. >>> >>> I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I >>> was misled in exactly this way. >>> >>> Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? >>> THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. >>> >>> Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >>>> >>>> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be >>>> expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen >>>> similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The >>>> firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >>>> >>>> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of >>>> trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). >>>> The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone >>>> is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project >>>> Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be >>>> able to make their own custom module. >>>> >>>> Kickstarter link: >>>> >>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >>>> >>>> >>>> recent Reddit discussion: >>>> >>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >>>> >>>> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >>>> >>>> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >>>> >>>> -Ben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randy7771026 at gmail.com Sun Apr 21 13:24:49 2019 From: randy7771026 at gmail.com (Randy Baxley) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:24:49 -0500 Subject: [Chicago] WiPhone, a phone you can program in Python In-Reply-To: References: <7343DB53-AE40-4299-A123-8AA54C202848@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, back home in Houston, Too bad I can only be in one place at a time. On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 11:20 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: > Hi Randy, good to "see" you too. You back in Texas ? > > I do not have a Makerphone yet. > The people making it are young and in Croatia. > They seem to have their act together, but they have been swamped by the > huge response they got when it started in November. > It seems like lots of people are interested in a cellphone that does only > what you want, and can't be easily hacked to spy on you ;) > > Their FAQ page answers most of those questions: > makerphone faqs > > > I don't know how US carriers will deal with the lack of 911 location, etc. > > I'll let you know how it goes, but I'm not sure when I'll have time to > mess with it. > > - Rob > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 9:43 PM Randy Baxley > wrote: > >> Good to 'see' you Rob. >> >> This thread is very interesting to me. Would service providers like AT&T >> still provide a SIM card and standard plans? >> >> Randy >> >> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:56 PM Rob Kapteyn wrote: >> >>> I am actually a backer on a similar Kickstarter, a phone that DOES come >>> with a cellular modem (either 2G or 4G): >>> >>> >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone-an-educational-diy-mobile-phone >>> >>> I am still waiting for it, but it is supposed to ship any day now. >>> >>> I do have a complaint however --- >>> DO NOT ADVERTISE "MICROPYTHON" as "PYTHON" -- it is not the same thing. >>> Micropython is a very nice way to program an ESP32 microcontroller -- >>> but -- to me -- the name "Python" implies a level of of-the-shelf >>> functionality that Micropython simply does not have. >>> >>> I have to admit when I jumped on the Kickstarter of the Makerphone, I >>> was misled in exactly this way. >>> >>> Why don't you make a phone with a Raspberry Pi Zero ? >>> THAT would run REAL PYTHON, and THAT I would jump on as a backer. >>> >>> Hope you appreciate the criticism ;) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:32 PM Joshua Herman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Could you add support for a cellular modem from that expansion slot? >>>> >>>> You are taking an esp32 and adding a keypad and a screen . I would be >>>> expecting a cellular modem to be honest as a part of it. I have seen >>>> similar builds with that feature . Why did you decide to only support WiFi ? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey all... I'm making a VoIP mobile phone that runs Python apps. The >>>> firmware will be open. Wanted to share and get the word out. >>>> >>>> I wanted a phone that lets hackers do what they want (instead of >>>> trapping you in a walled garden, huge IDE, non-serviceable design, etc.). >>>> The hardware is also meant to be easily expandable: the back of the phone >>>> is a PCB that can be swapped out for custom modules. Sort of like project >>>> Ara, except it's just a PCB. any hobby-level electrical designer should be >>>> able to make their own custom module. >>>> >>>> Kickstarter link: >>>> >>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103809433/wiphone-a-phone-for-hackers-and-makers?ref=1jz5jk >>>> >>>> >>>> recent Reddit discussion: >>>> >>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/bagyxv/wiphone_a_phone_you_can_program_in_python/project >>>> >>>> build logs: https://hackaday.io/project/159811-esp32-wiphone >>>> >>>> Happy to answer questions here or on Reddit. >>>> >>>> -Ben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chicago mailing list >>>> Chicago at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chicago mailing list >>> Chicago at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago mailing list >> Chicago at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago >> > _______________________________________________ > Chicago mailing list > Chicago at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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