From h.cm@uol.com.br Wed May 1 04:54:05 2002 From: h.cm@uol.com.br (rubens) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:54:05 -0300 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] AUTOCAD-SEJA UM NOVO CLIENTE Message-ID: PRESTAÇÃO DE SERVIÇOS DE AUTOCAD DESDE 1986 REGULARIZAÇÃO DE DESENHOS DE PREFEITURA ATUALIZAÇÃO DE PLANTAS E REVISÃO EM PAPEL PARA ARQUIVO DIGITAL. CONVERTO PLT EM DWG,CONFIGURADO PARA PADRÃO DA EMPRESA. FAÇO PROJETOS DE *ELÉTRICA *HIDRÁULICA *SANEAMENTO (REDE DE ESGOTO PLANTA E PERFIL E REDE DE ÁGUA, EMISSÁRIO, COLETOR TRONCO E ESTAÇÃO ELEVATÓRIA, ETA) *TOPOGRAFIA *ARQUITETURA *LAYOUT DE ESCRITÓRIO EM GERAL *BOMBEIROS ORÇAMENTO SEM COMPROMISSO VALOR A COMBINAR CONTATO 3498.3154 / 5562.4975 OU MANDA EMAIL ATÉ NOS FINAIS DE SEMANA. h.cm@uol.com.br VEJA PAGINA PARA VER ALGUNS DESENHOS PAGINA ABRE RÁPIDO. http://sites.uol.com.br/h.cm/ From mail@netmail.de Mon May 6 19:19:36 2002 From: mail@netmail.de (Immer frischer Kaffee) Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:19:36 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Betreff Message-ID: This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 0506021819 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --= Multipart Boundary 0506021819 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="index.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="index.htm" PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjx0aXRsZT5ORVRNQGlsLUtVUklFUi0gSW1tZXIg 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[Conferences-discuss] Python11 at OSCON2003 Message-ID: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> I've been approached by Gina Blaber of O'Reilly about having the next Python conference at OSCON next year. I'm all for it, and the PSF board agrees. I thought I'd give you all one more chance to discuss the pros and cons -- but basically, unless someone brings up a major problem, I'm going to tell her "yes, let's have Python11 at OSCON 2003, please." I will act once more as the conference chair; I'll be looking for volunteers amongst the PSF membership and the Python community at large for other conference positions (referees, track chairs, etc.). David Ascher has volunteered to be conference chair for a YAPC-style conference (*perhaps* in January at George Washington University in downtown Washington, DC). We're still waiting for Adam Turoff (ziggy) to return his mail; I expect David will post here once he's got more news. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From robinf1@pdq.net Tue May 21 22:22:08 2002 From: robinf1@pdq.net (robinf1) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:22:08 -0500 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Python11 at OSCON2003 Message-ID: <3D0C8989@mail.pdq.net> Guido, Sounds fine. Although can you estimate how much that would cost the conference attendees? (I better start saving now:^) -Robin From gstein@lyra.org Tue May 21 22:19:16 2002 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:19:16 -0700 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Re: [PSF-Members] Python11 at OSCON2003 In-Reply-To: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, May 21, 2002 at 03:18:56PM -0400 References: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> Message-ID: <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 03:18:56PM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I've been approached by Gina Blaber of O'Reilly about having the next > Python conference at OSCON next year. I'm all for it, and the PSF > board agrees. I thought I'd give you all one more chance to discuss > the pros and cons -- but basically, unless someone brings up a major > problem, I'm going to tell her "yes, let's have Python11 at OSCON > 2003, please." I think holding it at OSCON, in a formal fashion, would be a Good Thing. It provides a measure of "critical mass" for the conference. However, we should ensure that the PSF has a way to receive proceeds from the conference. If we are simply a draw for OSCON, but with no potential benefit, then I would fail to see why we should participate. (specifically: lend the "PSF name" to this) I'll note that the Apache Software Foundation has made on the order of $100k over the past two/three years from its conferences. In fact, we had a notable lack of income last year when our conference organizer folded, and we had to cancel the Con. While the ASF arguably has a larger and broader interest base than the PSF, I don't see a specific reason why a PSF conference could not generate proceeds for us. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From guido@python.org Tue May 21 22:17:28 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:17:28 -0400 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Python11 at OSCON2003 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 2002 16:22:08 CDT." <3D0C8989@mail.pdq.net> References: <3D0C8989@mail.pdq.net> Message-ID: <200205212117.g4LLHSB27984@odiug.zope.com> > Guido, > Sounds fine. Although can you estimate how much that would cost the > conference attendees? (I better start saving now:^) > -Robin Check the OSCON website for this year's prices. It's not cheap, but at least speakers have free registration. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From DavidA@ActiveState.com Wed May 22 00:39:00 2002 From: DavidA@ActiveState.com (David Ascher) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:39:00 -0700 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Re: [PSF-Members] Python11 at OSCON2003 References: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> Message-ID: <3CEADA94.4080100@ActiveState.com> Greg Stein wrote: >However, we should ensure that the PSF has a way to receive proceeds from >the conference. If we are simply a draw for OSCON, but with no potential >benefit, then I would fail to see why we should participate. (specifically: >lend the "PSF name" to this) > >I'll note that the Apache Software Foundation has made on the order of $100k >over the past two/three years from its conferences. In fact, we had a >notable lack of income last year when our conference organizer folded, and >we had to cancel the Con. > >While the ASF arguably has a larger and broader interest base than the PSF, >I don't see a specific reason why a PSF conference could not generate >proceeds for us. > > Note that previous organizers of IPC have lost money. A lot more than the PSF budget, in fact =). --david From guido@python.org Thu May 23 01:41:11 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:41:11 -0400 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Re: [PSF-Members] Python11 at OSCON2003 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 2002 14:19:16 PDT." <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> References: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> Message-ID: <200205230041.g4N0fBN11770@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > However, we should ensure that the PSF has a way to receive proceeds > from the conference. If we are simply a draw for OSCON, but with no > potential benefit, then I would fail to see why we should > participate. (specifically: lend the "PSF name" to this) I think a big benefit for the PSF is that there will be a professionally run conference at all. As you know we had a professionally run conference to date, but that organizer is not interested in losing more money, and I'm not interested in continuing the strained relationship with them. I'm also not interested in looking for another independent organizer. O'Reilly is more Python-friendly than anyone I can imagine, and other organizers may frown upon hearing that this has always been losing money. I'm not sure that they'll use the PSF name, but they'll use the Python11 moniker, which makes it pretty official. Anyway, I'll bring up the issue of passing profits to the PSF, but I won't require it. > I'll note that the Apache Software Foundation has made on the order > of $100k over the past two/three years from its conferences. In > fact, we had a notable lack of income last year when our conference > organizer folded, and we had to cancel the Con. There are may ways to look at that information less than favorably. > While the ASF arguably has a larger and broader interest base than > the PSF, I don't see a specific reason why a PSF conference could > not generate proceeds for us. Because it never made money in the past? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From gstein@lyra.org Thu May 23 02:26:05 2002 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Re: [PSF-Members] Python11 at OSCON2003 In-Reply-To: <200205230041.g4N0fBN11770@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>; from guido@python.org on Wed, May 22, 2002 at 08:41:11PM -0400 References: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> <200205230041.g4N0fBN11770@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020522182605.N19863@lyra.org> On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 08:41:11PM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > However, we should ensure that the PSF has a way to receive proceeds > > from the conference. If we are simply a draw for OSCON, but with no > > potential benefit, then I would fail to see why we should > > participate. (specifically: lend the "PSF name" to this) > > I think a big benefit for the PSF is that there will be a > professionally run conference at all. As you know we had a Heh. Fair enough :-) >... > I'm not sure that they'll use the PSF name, but they'll use the > Python11 moniker, which makes it pretty official. Well, let's at least try to get "Python Software Foundation" in there. Some exposure will certainly be good for us; at least from the standpoint of noting that we *exist*, are a non-profit, and willing to accept donations :-) >... > > I'll note that the Apache Software Foundation has made on the order > > of $100k over the past two/three years from its conferences. In > > fact, we had a notable lack of income last year when our conference > > organizer folded, and we had to cancel the Con. > > There are may ways to look at that information less than favorably. Heh. I presume you meant "many", but I can only think of one: the conference was quite expensive for the attendees. I'd be interested in other "less than favorably" aspects you have in mind. It would be great feedback! But even so with the higher cost than the Foretech/IPC conferences, the speakers got *paid* for being there (flight cost, per diem, and (of course) free entrance to the conference, etc). Even after that, money was still available for the ASF. I've always been amazed that the IPC conferences never generated positive cash. It just doesn't seem right :-) [ I will note that the ApacheCon this year has practically halved the conference fee (yet speakers still get paid); it will be interesting to see if/how much profit it ends up generating ] > > While the ASF arguably has a larger and broader interest base than > > the PSF, I don't see a specific reason why a PSF conference could > > not generate proceeds for us. > > Because it never made money in the past? See above. This just amazes me :-) Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From guido@python.org Thu May 23 02:38:33 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 21:38:33 -0400 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Re: [PSF-Members] Python11 at OSCON2003 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 May 2002 18:26:05 PDT." <20020522182605.N19863@lyra.org> References: <200205211918.g4LJIuP27453@odiug.zope.com> <20020521141916.I18235@lyra.org> <200205230041.g4N0fBN11770@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> <20020522182605.N19863@lyra.org> Message-ID: <200205230138.g4N1cbl12102@pcp742651pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > Well, let's at least try to get "Python Software Foundation" in > there. Some exposure will certainly be good for us; at least from > the standpoint of noting that we *exist*, are a non-profit, and > willing to accept donations :-) Will do. > >... > > > I'll note that the Apache Software Foundation has made on the order > > > of $100k over the past two/three years from its conferences. In > > > fact, we had a notable lack of income last year when our conference > > > organizer folded, and we had to cancel the Con. > > > > There are may ways to look at that information less than favorably. > > Heh. I presume you meant "many", but I can only think of one: the > conference was quite expensive for the attendees. I'd be interested > in other "less than favorably" aspects you have in mind. It would be > great feedback! Yes, I meant many. I was thinking that perhaps the organizer gave too much back to the ASF and went out of business as a result. More likely, they were a simple victim of the bursting internet bubble. > But even so with the higher cost than the Foretech/IPC conferences, > the speakers got *paid* for being there (flight cost, per diem, and > (of course) free entrance to the conference, etc). Even after that, > money was still available for the ASF. I've always been amazed that > the IPC conferences never generated positive cash. It just doesn't > seem right :-) OSCON gives all speakers free registration; tutorial speakers and VIPs I believe get paid or get a free trip. (I assume Larry Wall gets paid royally.) > > > While the ASF arguably has a larger and broader interest base than > > > the PSF, I don't see a specific reason why a PSF conference could > > > not generate proceeds for us. > > > > Because it never made money in the past? > > See above. This just amazes me :-) Yet it's a simple matter of numbers. The number of people who can convince their boss to pay for their trip to a Python conference is much smaller than for an Apache conference. While a lot of the cost is per attendee (like the food), there's also a lot of fixed cost (e.g. projector rent). Plus, for a larger conference you can get more money from sponsors. Since this will be your first conference since the bubble burst, it will be interesting to see how it goes. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From lolita86@libero.it Thu May 23 17:19:02 2002 From: lolita86@libero.it (lolita) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 23.19.02 +0200 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Eros e soldi:guadagna con internet 0,08 euro a clic Message-ID: sono lolita=2C voglio presentarti il mio nuovo sito affiliazione gratuita con guadagni immediati=3A erotismo=2C chat=2Cloghi e sonerie etc=2C etc=2C l'unico sito che paga cos=EC tanto 0=2C08 euro a clic =2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2Eguarda bene la pg di affiliazione=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2Ee buon divertimento=2E visita il sito=3A http=3A=2F=2Fmembers=2Exoom=2Eit=2Fmarym1976 http=3A=2F=2Fmembers=2Exoom=2Eit=2Fmarym1976 http=3A=2F=2Fmembers=2Exoom=2Eit=2Fmarym1976 From danielk_solicitor2002@mail.com Thu May 23 00:10:07 2002 From: danielk_solicitor2002@mail.com (Daniel Kopella) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:10:07 +0200 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Urgent Assistance. Message-ID: CONFIDENTIAL ATTN: Managing Director Sir, My name is Daniel Kopella . I am a solicitor/notary public, and very active in the legal practice in democratic republic of Congo (Zaire). I am also the in-law to the late president Mobutu Sese-Seko. Because of his involvement in the governance in Congo for thirty-two years, the government of today is after the family. They have claimed all the family's wealth and now president Mobutu is dead and the family is on exile to morocco. I am making this contact on behalf of my sister Mrs. Zamia Sese-Seko not minding the consequences, but hoping that you would understand our predicament hence the need for your urgent assistance and co-operation. My aim of contacting you is to crave your indulgence to assist us in securing some funds, into your trusted bank account abroad for safekeeping, which incidentally is the part of the family wealth. Fortunately with my immediate assistance, and contact, we were able to deposit the money (cash packed in trunk boxes) in a security vault two years ago pending when the whole situation will be calm. However this security company does not have any knowledge of content of the deposit, because it was done in the guise that the trunk contains precious stones. But owing the great risk we run presently due to the new government of Joseph kabila initiative to freeze and recover all monies supposedly misappropriated by the late president, we wish to relocate this fund in a foreigner's name to avoid any trace. Now that no one knows about this money is our opportunity to remove the money and we are willing to offer you a certain amount of the money after the transaction for your assistance and co-operation. All I need from you is the assurance that you can handle the amount involved comfortably and that I can trust you with this arrangement. Be rest assured that there is no risk involved since I have taken care of everything I want you to immediately inform me of your willingness in assisting and co-operating with us on my e-mail address so that I can send you full detail of this transaction and let us make arrangement for a meeting and discuss at length on how to transfer this funds. Also furnish me with your current e-mail address, telephone/fax numbers (private) for a personal contact with you. Finally, I am trusting on your full understanding on this hope that there will be absolute confidentiality. Waiting with interest, your response and hoping to develop good business relationship with you. Yours truly, Daniel Kopella Esq. From goodmansond@yahoo.com Mon May 27 18:02:34 2002 From: goodmansond@yahoo.com (Dean Goodmanson) Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 10:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Conferences-discuss] RE: RE: Crackle, crackle, "hello"... Message-ID: <20020527170234.97161.qmail@web21105.mail.yahoo.com> [Tim Peters] > If it will help draw people, I'll volunteer to attend the next conference. Tim Peters Speaking/Presenting/Anectodes & Historical Remarks most defenitely would. Lurker-ly y'rs, -Dean __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From sholden@holdenweb.com Tue May 28 13:30:09 2002 From: sholden@holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:30:09 -0400 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Crackle, crackle, "hello"... References: Message-ID: <038401c20643$6ac9c9e0$6300000a@holdenweb.com> Tim, how nice of you to send me a Valentine (even if the delivery date implies handling by the US Postal Service). Not sure why mail.python.org held on to this one for over three months ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Peters" To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:55 AM Subject: RE: [Conferences-discuss] Crackle, crackle, "hello"... > [Steve Holden] > > ... > > It was certainly a surprise to me that only 250 or so (my own estimate) > > people turned up to Python 10, but older hands seemed to feel that this > > number is "typical". > > If it will help draw people, I'll volunteer to attend the next conference. > I'm told the old homeless bum Foretec keeps hiring to play me is driving > people away. > Well, nobody wanted to tell you , Tim, but that's the same reason that PythonLabs is so small. There have actually been advertisements out for new staff members, but so far only those with strong enough stomachs and a desparate need for a pay packet have been able to put up with that guy. I notice he hangs around the offices too. This may make you seem less like a bot, but it does absolutely nothing for the recruitment effort. > > I suppose post-Sep11 there is some reason for it, but I would have > > expected Python to be experiencing almost explosive growth in its user > > base right now, and for this to be reflected in conference attendance. > > If not, boy, have I just wasted a year. > > One old man around here blaming his wasted life on Python is quite enough, > thank you. > So what do I blame mine on? > but-admiring-the-bad-taste-in-combining-"Sep11"-with-"explosive"-ly > y'rs - tim > And the reason I know my mouth is size 10 is because the foot fits perfectly :-) regards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/ Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From barry@zope.com Tue May 28 14:37:34 2002 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 09:37:34 -0400 Subject: [Conferences-discuss] Crackle, crackle, "hello"... References: <038401c20643$6ac9c9e0$6300000a@holdenweb.com> Message-ID: <15603.34846.865152.660680@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "SH" == Steve Holden writes: SH> Tim, how nice of you to send me a Valentine (even if the SH> delivery date implies handling by the US Postal Service). Not SH> sure why mail.python.org held on to this one for over three SH> months ... That dang moderator, slacking off again. -Barry