From catherine.devlin at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 06:01:18 2010 From: catherine.devlin at gmail.com (Catherine Devlin) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:01:18 -0400 Subject: [Conferences] program guide Message-ID: PyOhio was left without a program guide volunteer this year, so we needed something that could be assembled relatively easily by a frazzled conference chair. It turns out that rst2pdf with the Sphinx style, printed on 8.5 x 5.5 inch sheets ( 8 x 11 sheets, folded), make a pretty cheap but decent-looking booklet. (Or A5 in civilized lands.) Writing it in plain text makes the writing and editing really easy. If you'd like to imitate, you can download our guide here: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyOhio/ProgramGuide The printing scheme, including how to print out in booklet form, is described at http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/139752 btw PyOhio was SO. GOOD. this year. If I do say so myself. :) -- - Catherine http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/ *** PyOhio 2010 * July 31 - Aug 1 * Columbus, OH * pyohio.org *** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ct at gocept.com Tue Aug 10 17:34:35 2010 From: ct at gocept.com (Christian Theune) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:34:35 +0200 Subject: [Conferences] DZUG conference Python/Zope/Plone in September in Dresden/Germany Message-ID: <4C61718B.1000605@gocept.com> Hi, we just realized we didn't announce our conference here. We have a 3-day conference on Python/Zope/Plone, each with a good set of tracks that include general Python topics (so we can slowly get a conference community in Germany, too). Most of the program is in German, but we're happy to have visitors and there will be open space and sprints. The program: http://www.zope.de/tagung/Dresden_2010/programm The general site: http://www.zope.de/tagung/Dresden_2010/ Register here: http://www.zope.de/conference/2010/addparticipant Hope to see some of you in Dresden in a few weeks! Christian -- Christian Theune ? ct at gocept.com gocept gmbh & co. kg ? forsterstra?e 29 ? 06112 halle (saale) ? germany http://gocept.com ? tel +49 345 1229889 0 ? fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development From carl at personnelware.com Sat Aug 21 17:33:19 2010 From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:33:19 -0500 Subject: [Conferences] TCC = Total Cost of Conference Message-ID: How do you measure the value of a weekend? Is it worth more or less than 2 work days? yeah, the devil is in the details, YMMV, bla bla bla. but I think this is worth talking about so that it is acknowledged as something to be aware of when considering asking people to show up for an event. Ignore the value someone gets from attending a bunch of talks and hanging out with others who share the passion of Python. That would be for the Total Value thread which someone else can start. I think getting an appreciation for the magnitude of the cost will help put things in perspective like $10 parking charge. I am sure we all agree that for the most part a Python event has a positive net value. We also agree that the registration cost is a real cost (duh.) What we don't talk about much is other costs the attendee incurs. Lets look at groups of people: Anyone from out of town: Hotel - on my way to NY I found a hotel for about $50. But that was in the middle of nowhere. for conferences, I assume $100/night, so $200 for a Sat/Sun event given you need to arrive the night before. This is about the only firm number. Travel - I think $200 is a minimum cost as soon as an airplane is involved (including taxi/getting someone to give you a ride to the airport, parking) will eat up more time. Anytime I fly I assume I will get no work done that day. I do try to make up for it by catching up on reading, but even that only gets me about 1/2 day of reading in, and it is typically in a noisy distracting etc environment. So $200+value of a day which can be anywhere from 0 to $1000. The rest apply to both locals and out of towners: M-F job and takes care of children who are in school, weekend is when they get to do things with the family. Single consultant, lives alone, works whenever they need to to meet deadlines. M-F job where the employer recognizes the value of attending a Python conference, so the cost is the backlog of work that the employee comes back to because they took some days off. Students pay to be instructed at. I remember considering how much it was costing me per hour and it made me more motivated to show up. I have no idea what the cost is now... anyone want to throw out a number? I know there are more, but have run out of steam for now. anyone up for adding to my list? -- Carl K From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sat Aug 21 18:17:57 2010 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:17:57 -0700 Subject: [Conferences] TCC = Total Cost of Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100821161757.GA16081@panix.com> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010, Carl Karsten wrote: > > Hotel - on my way to NY I found a hotel for about $50. But that was > in the middle of nowhere. for conferences, I assume $100/night, so > $200 for a Sat/Sun event given you need to arrive the night before. > This is about the only firm number. Those of us for whom travel is physically stressful are likely to need three or four nights at the hotel. (Arriving Thurs, leaving Mon.) That bumps the cost to $200/night. I also note that for many conferences your nightly rate is on the low side. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...if I were on life-support, I'd rather have it run by a Gameboy than a Windows box." --Cliff Wells From paul at boddie.org.uk Sat Aug 21 18:58:16 2010 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:58:16 +0200 Subject: [Conferences] TCC = Total Cost of Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201008211858.16302.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Saturday 21 August 2010 17:33:19 Carl Karsten wrote: > How do you measure the value of a weekend? Is it worth more or less > than 2 work days? In the context of planning a conference, the weekend versus weekdays argument is also worth considering, at least in places where people get enough vacation to consider going to a conference in the week. > yeah, the devil is in the details, YMMV, bla bla bla. but I think > this is worth talking about so that it is acknowledged as something to > be aware of when considering asking people to show up for an event. > Ignore the value someone gets from attending a bunch of talks and > hanging out with others who share the passion of Python. That would > be for the Total Value thread which someone else can start. I think > getting an appreciation for the magnitude of the cost will help put > things in perspective like $10 parking charge. I think this is an important point. Although community conferences can keep the cost of the event down, if you're travelling to the event, the travel and accommodation costs can easily overwhelm the registration costs. That's not an argument for expensive conferences, of course, since many people will be locals or not have to travel very far, but it does exert some pressure on the choice of venue. > I am sure we all agree that for the most part a Python event has a > positive net value. We also agree that the registration cost is a > real cost (duh.) What we don't talk about much is other costs the > attendee incurs. Agreed. Another potentially long thread could also consider things that are usually provided at a conference. For example, people expect flawless wireless network coverage and are likely to be disappointed if they have to switch to mobile networks (3G services and the like), but is the cost of getting on the Internet at the venue unreasonable if they have to buy 3G service, or are they expecting too much of the organisers to give several hundred people a fast Internet connection for hardly any money? > Lets look at groups of people: > > Anyone from out of town: > Hotel - on my way to NY I found a hotel for about $50. But that was > in the middle of nowhere. for conferences, I assume $100/night, so > $200 for a Sat/Sun event given you need to arrive the night before. > This is about the only firm number. This is where deals with hotels could be done, I suppose. It seems that recent PyCons have been held at hotels, whereas other conferences are often held at other kinds of venue that don't provide accommodation. The EuroPython local organisers have been rather good at offering a range of differently priced accommodation. The point here is that there is often an opportunity to optimise the attendee's budget around accommodation that isn't necessarily present around travel and other things. > Travel - I think $200 is a minimum cost as soon as an airplane is > involved (including taxi/getting someone to give you a ride to the > airport, parking) will eat up more time. Anytime I fly I assume I > will get no work done that day. I do try to make up for it by > catching up on reading, but even that only gets me about 1/2 day of > reading in, and it is typically in a noisy distracting etc > environment. So $200+value of a day which can be anywhere from 0 to > $1000. In my experience, travel is something that is always going to swallow a large percentage of one's personal conference budget, in terms of time, hassle and money. It seemed quite difficult to get decent early rates when I went to EuroPython recently, and travelling with low-cost carriers isn't always cheaper once all the extra costs have been incurred. Putting a figure on time is quite difficult, and I guess this depends a lot on your perspective: if it's time away from paid work and not vacation, then you'd want to arrive at a figure; otherwise, it's all about whether travelling to a conference in your vacation is using up time that you could be spending doing something else. [List of "users"] > I know there are more, but have run out of steam for now. anyone up > for adding to my list? I think the initial question of how much value you place in a weekend is the most interesting. Some people would rather spare the weekend for family activities and try and get out of work during the week. For others, getting out of work (or studies) is just not possible, and they'd rather sacrifice a weekend. And do people want more "fun" if an event is a weekend event, or are they happy to sit in tutorials at a weekend, or are tutorials just as much fun as "normal" conference things? Paul From ctrachte at gmail.com Sat Aug 21 21:32:56 2010 From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:32:56 -0600 Subject: [Conferences] TCC = Total Cost of Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/21/10, Carl Karsten wrote: > How do you measure the value of a weekend? Is it worth more or less > than 2 work days? Oversimplified - but if it makes me happy, it's worth it. > > yeah, the devil is in the details, YMMV, bla bla bla. but I think > this is worth talking about so that it is acknowledged as something to > be aware of when considering asking people to show up for an event. > Ignore the value someone gets from attending a bunch of talks and > hanging out with others who share the passion of Python. That would > be for the Total Value thread which someone else can start. I think > getting an appreciation for the magnitude of the cost will help put > things in perspective like $10 parking charge. I gave up trying to split it/itemize it and finally just told my wife it's probably about $2000 total. Depending on how cost conscious I am at a conference (usually, I'm not), this number may be a bit on the high side or spot on. The flight plus meals is usually around $300 to $600 dollars (I've never gone overseas). The conference venue hotel runs around $150 to $200 a night (4 X $200 = $800). It's not hard to drop another $200 on the road if you eat at nice restaurants or are forced to buy hotel or conference center food. The conference registration is about $300 to $500, but sometimes they're practically free (SCALE, IIRC, is less than $100). My company paid my registration this year. > > I am sure we all agree that for the most part a Python event has a > positive net value. We also agree that the registration cost is a > real cost (duh.) What we don't talk about much is other costs the > attendee incurs. > > Lets look at groups of people: > > Anyone from out of town: > Hotel - on my way to NY I found a hotel for about $50. But that was > in the middle of nowhere. for conferences, I assume $100/night, so > $200 for a Sat/Sun event given you need to arrive the night before. > This is about the only firm number. > > Travel - I think $200 is a minimum cost as soon as an airplane is > involved (including taxi/getting someone to give you a ride to the > airport, parking) will eat up more time. Anytime I fly I assume I > will get no work done that day. I do try to make up for it by > catching up on reading, but even that only gets me about 1/2 day of > reading in, and it is typically in a noisy distracting etc > environment. So $200+value of a day which can be anywhere from 0 to > $1000. > > The rest apply to both locals and out of towners: > > M-F job and takes care of children who are in school, weekend is when > they get to do things with the family. > > Single consultant, lives alone, works whenever they need to to meet > deadlines. > > M-F job where the employer recognizes the value of attending a Python > conference, so the cost is the backlog of work that the employee comes > back to because they took some days off. > > Students pay to be instructed at. I remember considering how much it > was costing me per hour and it made me more motivated to show up. I > have no idea what the cost is now... anyone want to throw out a > number? > > I know there are more, but have run out of steam for now. anyone up > for adding to my list? > > -- > Carl K > _______________________________________________ > Conferences mailing list: Conferences at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences > > This is an open list with open archives; sensitive or confidential > information should not be discussed here. > From ctrachte at gmail.com Sat Aug 21 23:42:28 2010 From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:42:28 -0600 Subject: [Conferences] TCC = Total Cost of Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/21/10, Carl Trachte wrote: > On 8/21/10, Carl Karsten wrote: >> How do you measure the value of a weekend? Is it worth more or less >> than 2 work days? > > Oversimplified - but if it makes me happy, it's worth it. > >> >> yeah, the devil is in the details, YMMV, bla bla bla. but I think >> this is worth talking about so that it is acknowledged as something to >> be aware of when considering asking people to show up for an event. >> Ignore the value someone gets from attending a bunch of talks and >> hanging out with others who share the passion of Python. That would >> be for the Total Value thread which someone else can start. I think >> getting an appreciation for the magnitude of the cost will help put >> things in perspective like $10 parking charge. > > I gave up trying to split it/itemize it and finally just told my wife > it's probably about $2000 total. Depending on how cost conscious I am > at a conference (usually, I'm not), this number may be a bit on the > high side or spot on. > > The flight plus meals is usually around $300 to $600 dollars (I've > never gone overseas). The conference venue hotel runs around $150 to > $200 a night (4 X $200 = $800). It's not hard to drop another $200 on > the road if you eat at nice restaurants or are forced to buy hotel or > conference center food. The conference registration is about $300 to > $500, but sometimes they're practically free (SCALE, IIRC, is less > than $100). My company paid my registration this year. Sorry - I forgot something else - stuff. You'll probably end up buying a book or a shirt or something else. I remember OSCON a number of years ago - they were selling these programmable talking tux robots for about $100/a pop. Seemed like everybody had one. I always am shooting to buy something from Elegant Stitches at Pycon. These aren't conference costs, but sometimes they are things you wouldn't buy unless you were at the conference (the tux robot I described comes to mind). > >> >> I am sure we all agree that for the most part a Python event has a >> positive net value. We also agree that the registration cost is a >> real cost (duh.) What we don't talk about much is other costs the >> attendee incurs. >> >> Lets look at groups of people: >> >> Anyone from out of town: >> Hotel - on my way to NY I found a hotel for about $50. But that was >> in the middle of nowhere. for conferences, I assume $100/night, so >> $200 for a Sat/Sun event given you need to arrive the night before. >> This is about the only firm number. >> >> Travel - I think $200 is a minimum cost as soon as an airplane is >> involved (including taxi/getting someone to give you a ride to the >> airport, parking) will eat up more time. Anytime I fly I assume I >> will get no work done that day. I do try to make up for it by >> catching up on reading, but even that only gets me about 1/2 day of >> reading in, and it is typically in a noisy distracting etc >> environment. So $200+value of a day which can be anywhere from 0 to >> $1000. >> >> The rest apply to both locals and out of towners: >> >> M-F job and takes care of children who are in school, weekend is when >> they get to do things with the family. >> >> Single consultant, lives alone, works whenever they need to to meet >> deadlines. >> >> M-F job where the employer recognizes the value of attending a Python >> conference, so the cost is the backlog of work that the employee comes >> back to because they took some days off. >> >> Students pay to be instructed at. I remember considering how much it >> was costing me per hour and it made me more motivated to show up. I >> have no idea what the cost is now... anyone want to throw out a >> number? >> >> I know there are more, but have run out of steam for now. anyone up >> for adding to my list? >> >> -- >> Carl K >> _______________________________________________ >> Conferences mailing list: Conferences at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences >> >> This is an open list with open archives; sensitive or confidential >> information should not be discussed here. >> >