From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 12:15:17 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 21:15:17 +1000
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
Message-ID: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>

As of earlier today, I've arranged to spend around 1 day of week of
paid time on CPython infrastructure work, focusing on container based
developer workflow improvements for the web services we run or are
considering running. My proposals for Kallithea based workflow changes
are going to be the starting point for that work, so I've updated both
PEP 462 and 474 accordingly:
https://hg.python.org/peps/rev/12d44a2d7c59

As you can see, this also means I've returned to this list, as
contributing to productive discussions here is now part of my job,
rather than a purely volunteer activity.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From bcannon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 16:34:02 2015
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 15:34:02 +0000
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
References: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon Feb 09 2015 at 6:15:22 AM Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> As of earlier today, I've arranged to spend around 1 day of week of
> paid time on CPython infrastructure work, focusing on container based
> developer workflow improvements for the web services we run or are
> considering running.


Fantastic!

And what exactly are you aiming for with "container based
developer workflow improvements for the web services we run or are
considering running"? If you're taking ideas then I vote for stuff like
getting Buildbots up using containers so that we can download the same
containers as developers and run them under, e.g. Valgrant to do local
testing on the OS the container is targeting? IOW less volunteers and more
structured, high uptime stuff for OS coverage?

-Brett


> My proposals for Kallithea based workflow changes
> are going to be the starting point for that work, so I've updated both
> PEP 462 and 474 accordingly:
> https://hg.python.org/peps/rev/12d44a2d7c59
>
> As you can see, this also means I've returned to this list, as
> contributing to productive discussions here is now part of my job,
> rather than a purely volunteer activity.
>
> Regards,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
> https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
>
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 21:20:56 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 06:20:56 +1000
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fsCEVGBA5Jdo25wvSi4HGtSGE6PmKLtro3cNPKfzT=Ww@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 Feb 2015 01:34, "Brett Cannon" <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon Feb 09 2015 at 6:15:22 AM Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As of earlier today, I've arranged to spend around 1 day of week of
>> paid time on CPython infrastructure work, focusing on container based
>> developer workflow improvements for the web services we run or are
>> considering running.
>
>
> Fantastic!
>
> And what exactly are you aiming for with "container based
> developer workflow improvements for the web services we run or are
> considering running"? If you're taking ideas then I vote for stuff like
getting Buildbots up using containers so that we can download the same
containers as developers and run them under, e.g. Valgrant to do local
testing on the OS the container is targeting? IOW less volunteers and more
structured, high uptime stuff for OS coverage?

Yep, that's the general idea. I'd mostly been thinking in terms of
Kallithea's development workflow, but you're right, we could also apply it
to enabling cloud based testing in the buildbot fleet.

Cheers,
Nick.

>
> -Brett
>
>>
>> My proposals for Kallithea based workflow changes
>> are going to be the starting point for that work, so I've updated both
>> PEP 462 and 474 accordingly:
>> https://hg.python.org/peps/rev/12d44a2d7c59
>>
>> As you can see, this also means I've returned to this list, as
>> contributing to productive discussions here is now part of my job,
>> rather than a purely volunteer activity.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nick.
>>
>> --
>> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
>> _______________________________________________
>> core-workflow mailing list
>> core-workflow at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
>> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  9 21:30:21 2015
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 21:30:21 +0100
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
References: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150209213021.0e185310@fsol>

On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 15:34:02 +0000
Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're taking ideas then I vote for stuff like
> getting Buildbots up using containers so that we can download the same
> containers as developers and run them under, e.g. Valgrant to do local
> testing on the OS the container is targeting?

As long as the tested platform can run in a container... (or perhaps
you meant a VM?).

Regards

Antoine.



From bcannon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 21:39:24 2015
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 20:39:24 +0000
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
References: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150209213021.0e185310@fsol>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W7qpWiuuFUSwR9Q21u-oaQXFQokkOStYmM8TgbJYL9Xvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon Feb 09 2015 at 3:30:32 PM Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 15:34:02 +0000
> Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you're taking ideas then I vote for stuff like
> > getting Buildbots up using containers so that we can download the same
> > containers as developers and run them under, e.g. Valgrant to do local
> > testing on the OS the container is targeting?
>
> As long as the tested platform can run in a container... (or perhaps
> you meant a VM?).
>

I did mean container but VMs also work. I realize this won't work for all
OSs, but it does work for enough to warrant looking into since containers
have better workflows for local testing when something does fail.

-Brett


>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
> https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
>
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 22:02:38 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 07:02:38 +1000
Subject: [core-workflow] Status update for Kallithea based workflow PEPs
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W7qpWiuuFUSwR9Q21u-oaQXFQokkOStYmM8TgbJYL9Xvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7eCRtXkYdou2655=1wx2qenNc3SxCmU+vCxfK-EJL=sRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4d8YJ05Kdhs9K2+KZdMdqe_8seMuiFSX3uPbeWtbvjxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150209213021.0e185310@fsol>
 <CAP1=2W7qpWiuuFUSwR9Q21u-oaQXFQokkOStYmM8TgbJYL9Xvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fO_qTzUHN8Hf=hQrTzoBwaLuD03deyAtQE7TJrkeuDqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 Feb 2015 06:39, "Brett Cannon" <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon Feb 09 2015 at 3:30:32 PM Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>
wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 15:34:02 +0000
>> Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you're taking ideas then I vote for stuff like
>> > getting Buildbots up using containers so that we can download the same
>> > containers as developers and run them under, e.g. Valgrant to do local
>> > testing on the OS the container is targeting?
>>
>> As long as the tested platform can run in a container... (or perhaps
>> you meant a VM?).
>
>
> I did mean container but VMs also work. I realize this won't work for all
OSs, but it does work for enough to warrant looking into since containers
have better workflows for local testing when something does fail.

The main overhead is actually maintaining your stable of base images, and
the infrastructure for doing that with containers independently of
DockerHub is currently still fairly immature.

At this point in history, we'd probably be better off hooking up the
BuildBot master's VM worker support up to the PSF's Rackspace account - our
throughput is low enough that the VM vs container overhead shouldn't matter.

There may still be value in enabling local container based testing for
CPython itself, though. At the very least, between Vagrant and Docker we
should be able to automate *local* testing across various POSIX systems
without affecting the host system (beyond installing Vagrant and
potentially VirtualBox), and Windows folks may even be able to figure out
how to automate that side of things as well (at least with an active MSDN
subscription).

Cheers,
Nick.

>
> -Brett
>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Antoine.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> core-workflow mailing list
>> core-workflow at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
>> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 11:35:13 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:35:13 +1000
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list autofill
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I'd like to have Slavek (Fedora/RHEL Python maintainer) appear in the
bugs.python.org nosy list entirely for selfish reasons (i.e. I'd like
to make it easier for me or anyone else to ask his opinion on issues
that may have a downstream impact on Fedora and the Fedora-derived
ecosystem)

Do I just need to grant him Developer access on the tracker to make
that happen? Or would he have to be accepted as a core developer
first?

And as a related meta-question... are there additional tracker admin
docs I should be aware of given my level of access?

Noob-tracker-admin-ish'ly yours,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From bcannon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 15:39:34 2015
From: bcannon at gmail.com (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:39:34 +0000
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list
	autofill
References: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6wEVh=5w847-W27uaTTR_DCP++jj9wM_tUCNq-2ep5SA@mail.gmail.com>

Developer privileges should be enough and I can't think of any special docs.

On Thu Feb 19 2015 at 5:35:26 AM Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I'd like to have Slavek (Fedora/RHEL Python maintainer) appear in the
> bugs.python.org nosy list entirely for selfish reasons (i.e. I'd like
> to make it easier for me or anyone else to ask his opinion on issues
> that may have a downstream impact on Fedora and the Fedora-derived
> ecosystem)
>
> Do I just need to grant him Developer access on the tracker to make
> that happen? Or would he have to be accepted as a core developer
> first?
>
> And as a related meta-question... are there additional tracker admin
> docs I should be aware of given my level of access?
>
> Noob-tracker-admin-ish'ly yours,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
> https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
>
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From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Thu Feb 19 16:11:10 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:11:10 -0500
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list
	autofill
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W6wEVh=5w847-W27uaTTR_DCP++jj9wM_tUCNq-2ep5SA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEVh=5w847-W27uaTTR_DCP++jj9wM_tUCNq-2ep5SA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150219151110.B58A3251111@webabinitio.net>

Giving him developer privs will allow him to appear in the "assigned to"
list.  It has no effect on the tab completion of the nosy field.  (Since
any tracker id can appear in the nosy field, I presume it is the tab
completion you are talking about.)  Tab completion is controlled by the
experts file in the devguide.  We already have non-committers in that
list, so you can add him there if there is an appropriate topic, or
create a topic if one doesn't already exist.

(I don't use the tab completion feature myself, and in fact I can't seem
to get it to work right now, so I'm speaking from theory here...)

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:39:34 +0000, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Developer privileges should be enough and I can't think of any special docs.
> 
> On Thu Feb 19 2015 at 5:35:26 AM Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'd like to have Slavek (Fedora/RHEL Python maintainer) appear in the
> > bugs.python.org nosy list entirely for selfish reasons (i.e. I'd like
> > to make it easier for me or anyone else to ask his opinion on issues
> > that may have a downstream impact on Fedora and the Fedora-derived
> > ecosystem)
> >
> > Do I just need to grant him Developer access on the tracker to make
> > that happen? Or would he have to be accepted as a core developer
> > first?
> >
> > And as a related meta-question... are there additional tracker admin
> > docs I should be aware of given my level of access?
> >
> > Noob-tracker-admin-ish'ly yours,
> > Nick.
> >
> > --
> > Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> > _______________________________________________
> > core-workflow mailing list
> > core-workflow at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> > This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
> > https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
> >
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Feb 19 16:40:45 2015
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:40:45 +0100
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list
	autofill
References: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150219164045.6fb5fbc9@fsol>

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 20:35:13 +1000
Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I'd like to have Slavek (Fedora/RHEL Python maintainer) appear in the
> bugs.python.org nosy list entirely for selfish reasons (i.e. I'd like
> to make it easier for me or anyone else to ask his opinion on issues
> that may have a downstream impact on Fedora and the Fedora-derived
> ecosystem)

You may also ask him to choose a simple username (such as "slavek") to
make it easy to type without any autofill. I think you can change
usernames on Roundup.

Regards

Antoine.



From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Thu Feb 19 18:05:08 2015
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 12:05:08 -0500
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list
	autofill
In-Reply-To: <20150219164045.6fb5fbc9@fsol>
References: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150219164045.6fb5fbc9@fsol>
Message-ID: <20150219170508.9BACB250EED@webabinitio.net>

On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:40:45 +0100, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> You may also ask him to choose a simple username (such as "slavek") to
> make it easy to type without any autofill. I think you can change
> usernames on Roundup.

You can, yes.  The real 'user' is a integer identifier, which gets
mapped to the name, which can be changed.

--David

From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 20:12:49 2015
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 21:12:49 +0200
Subject: [core-workflow] Getting a user to appear in the nosy list
	autofill
In-Reply-To: <20150219151110.B58A3251111@webabinitio.net>
References: <CADiSq7fRNtGywOyeAkBPcF=wjWto7gX+wF5M2tNmEA33cvHj2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEVh=5w847-W27uaTTR_DCP++jj9wM_tUCNq-2ep5SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150219151110.B58A3251111@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdGsBD9XDmbtT2fs+CvrtpdUqEv+r1BiT_QG+94u+jXBgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:11 PM, R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
> Giving him developer privs will allow him to appear in the "assigned to"
> list.  It has no effect on the tab completion of the nosy field.  (Since
> any tracker id can appear in the nosy field, I presume it is the tab
> completion you are talking about.)  Tab completion is controlled by the
> experts file in the devguide.

It includes both names from the experts file in the devguide, and
users that are marked as committers on the bug tracker.

Adding him to the Platform section (or any other section) of the
experts list is enough to have him in the autocomplete (it might take
a day or so before it appears there).

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti

>  We already have non-committers in that
> list, so you can add him there if there is an appropriate topic, or
> create a topic if one doesn't already exist.
>
> (I don't use the tab completion feature myself, and in fact I can't seem
> to get it to work right now, so I'm speaking from theory here...)
>
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 14:39:34 +0000, Brett Cannon <bcannon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Developer privileges should be enough and I can't think of any special docs.
>>
>> On Thu Feb 19 2015 at 5:35:26 AM Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'd like to have Slavek (Fedora/RHEL Python maintainer) appear in the
>> > bugs.python.org nosy list entirely for selfish reasons (i.e. I'd like
>> > to make it easier for me or anyone else to ask his opinion on issues
>> > that may have a downstream impact on Fedora and the Fedora-derived
>> > ecosystem)
>> >
>> > Do I just need to grant him Developer access on the tracker to make
>> > that happen? Or would he have to be accepted as a core developer
>> > first?
>> >
>> > And as a related meta-question... are there additional tracker admin
>> > docs I should be aware of given my level of access?
>> >
>> > Noob-tracker-admin-ish'ly yours,
>> > Nick.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > core-workflow mailing list
>> > core-workflow at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
>> > This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct:
>> > https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> core-workflow mailing list
>> core-workflow at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
>> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct
> _______________________________________________
> core-workflow mailing list
> core-workflow at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/core-workflow
> This list is governed by the PSF Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct