[Datetime-SIG] Another round on error-checking

Tim Peters tim.peters at gmail.com
Mon Aug 31 21:50:24 CEST 2015


[Tim]
>> At a high level, I'm questioning the "_never_ raise an exception" PEP
>> 495 behavior.  It grates. "Errors should never pass silently" and
>> such.

[Alex][
> But these are not errors!

That depends on the application.  As W Kahan quipped when devising the
IEEE-754 exception model, they're called "exceptions" because
_whatever_ you do someone will take exception to it ;-)

>  As I mentioned before, it was bad PR on my part
> to call datetimes in the gaps or with ignorable fold=1 "invalid."  I should
> have called them "denormalized."

It doesn't matter what they're called _except_ for "PR purposes".  I'm
not trying to do PR here.

> I believe many aware datetime manipulation algorithms can benefit from
> having denormalized instances as intermediate values and being able
> to call .utcoffset() and friends on such instances.

That's why, e.g., C's mktime allows "insane" values for the day, etc.
Python's internal C datetime implementation does too.  It's also why
Paul Eggert patched glibc's mktime to "pick one" for a gap case.. But
that's all C, working at a level so low everything is painful.
datetime isn't intended to be infinitely painful ;-)

> My primary use case is the "naive scheduler" which gives you no means to
> schedule anything with fold=1 and if you give it 02:45 AM in the gap it will
> silently take it for 03:45 AM.   As long as it displays the correct time in
> every reminder, I don't care that it did to chastise me for not knowing
> about the DST gap.

I don't dispute that, in a gap case, picking the time that "would have
displayed" had the user moved the clock forward is most useful most
often.  If that's believed to be overwhelmingly the case, that at
least argues for opt-in exceptions.  But passing fold=1 in a
non-fold/gap case is almost certainly a flat-out programmer error,
_except_ that PEP 495 requires never ever complaining about it, and to
the contrary _requires_ it to be done if the user wants to find out
whether their datetime is any way odd.

C'mon, admit it - _part_ of it makes you cringe too, if even just a little ;-)


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