[Distutils] Re: Distutils documentation Mac mods
Thu Sep 14 21:53:02 2000
On 13 September 2000, Jack Jansen said:
> I've cc-d Corran on this reply, it's a bit silly to keep two conversations
> going with similar content. Don't worry, we'll keep our esoteric Mac-talk to
And I'm bringing the whole SIG in on this -- surely you two aren't the
only Mac hackers in the world!
> I like the model we've used for Windows installers: developers and
> packagers have to put up with a command line interface -- ie. open a
> "DOS box" and run "python setup.py bdist_wininst" -- but then end users
> have a nice little Windows-friendly executable installer. They're not
> even aware of such a thing as the Distutils, which is how it should be
> for end-users.
> Ok, that's fine. From reading the document I got the impression that the
> various command-line switches to install (in the end-user situation) would
> actually be necessary relatively often, but you're saying that they're rare,
> and that the end user will normally just do "python setup.py". Right?
Not quite. You're right that the options to install will not be needed
very often, especially on single-user systems with no file permissions.
But the normal case is "python setup.py install" -- you CANNOT use the
Distutils without providing at least one argument to the setup script.
The rationale for this reveals my deep-seated Unix geek prejudice: how
am I supposed to find out what this program does? Well, I run it
without arguments and see what it says. As long as it's not a filter
(remember trying to learn how to use grep before you understood what a
filter was?), you're fine. Well-behaved command-line programs give you
a usage summary when run with bad args or no args, and any Distutils
setup script automatically plays by those rules.
This is bad on Mac OS, where providing *any* command-line args is a
pain. However, I have a cunning plan...
When a setup script is run under Mac OS, instead of printing a usage
summary to stdout and exiting, throw up a dialog with the user's options
-- ie. what commands they can run. You can get a barebones list of
commands from distutils.command.__all__, and a list of all commands
(including non-standard commands provided by the current setup script)
by poking around in the Distribution object. See 'print_commands()' in
dist.py for an example, and 'print_command_list()' for how to get the
description of each command in turn. (The command module has to be
imported, which is why running "setup.py --help-commands" is slow and
chunky: it has to import an entire module for each line of help text!)
However, the barebones list is probably sub-optimal; you'd want to
shuffle it around a bit so "install", "build", "clean", "sdist", and
"bdist" are up at the top. Then the sub-commands can come below,
grouped as they already are (which is a function of the ordering of
distutils.command.__all__). This reshuffling is purely a usability
issue; 90% of users will just run "install" 90% of the time, so it
should be first, and checked by default. Eg. here's a rough sketch of
the dialog I have in mind:
| (x) install install everything from build directory |
| ( ) build build everything needed to install |
| ( ) clean clean up output of 'build' command |
| ( ) sdist create a source distribution ... |
| ( ) bdist create a built (binary) distribution |
| ----------------------------------------------------------- |
| ( ) build_py ... |
| ( ) build_ext ... |
| ( ) build_clib ... |
| ( ) build_scripts ... |
| ( ) install_lib ... |
| ( ) install_headers |
| ( ) ... |
| ( ) bdist_dumb |
| ( ) ... |
| [ Ok ] [ Cancel ] |
(Memo to myself: if this ordering makes more sense in a GUI dialog, it
makes more sense in the output of --help-commands. Hmmm.)
I *think* the commands should be radiobuttons, even though you can run
multiple commands in one go, because of the need to associate
command-line options with each command.
Hmmm, maybe not. If you pick multiple commands *and* choose to "Supply
additional command-line arguments" (this would probably have to be
another checkbox, off by default), then you could get a dialog with
space for multiple argument lists:
if the user selected to run "build_clib" and "install_headers".
You might want to use distutils.util.split_quoted() to parse those
argument strings into words, in case -- gasp! -- people use directories
with spaces in them. (Which will have to be quoted -- ugh! I can just
see Joe Mac User saying, "Whaddya mean, the standard shell quoting
Of course, if the user doesn't check the "Supply additional command-line
arguments" dialog, then the requested command(s) immediately run.
stdout should be preserved and presented to the user in a big scrolling
window -- yeah it's ugly, yeah it'll look like someone took a big ol'
Unix program and ported to Mac OS as quickly and cheaply as possible.
But that's what (will have) happened!
So whaddya think? How outrageously horrible and Unix-oid is that? I
figure it's not too bad as long as the user doesn't want to supply any
extra args, and I don't think that'll be necessary for most end-user
> Mac installers don't have to worry about HKEY_USER and HKEY_MACHINE and the
> difference between OS version X and OS version Y and such: there's always a
> single place to put things, and if that somehow changes "the old way"
> continues to work. Usually through Apple-supplied magic, sometimes through
> VISE-supplied magic.
What, you mean you have a *sensible* operating system? I thought they
were banned by the secret Microsoft World Domination Act of 1994 (passed
by the hidden One World Government, of course). (*wink*... I think.)
The issue of where to install header files affects other platforms as
well, so I think I'll bring that up in a new thread on the SIG.
Greg Ward firstname.lastname@example.org