[Distutils] Pre-pre-PEP: Requirements for the Python BUILDS Specification

Tarek Ziade tarek.ziade at ingeniweb.com
Fri Oct 3 19:00:10 CEST 2008


You said it was too early, 2 days ago when I sent a similar (less detailed)
mail where I expressed the need to start writing things down in Python Wiki

But this work has already started, by Thoshio, me, and some others. mail.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distribute/Functionality for instance.
or here for the overview, http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distribute

we are also hanging in #distutils

Can't you join ? and help on it ?

We where waiting for that in fact..

Also , I am -1 on having another Mailing List for that. Distutils is the
place to be imho. Since main talks are about that.

And the working group is there : people that are talking for now a few
weeks, a bit before you joined the discussions.


2008/10/3 Phillip J. Eby <pje at telecommunity.com>

> I'm thinking about putting together a pre-PEP for a "Build Utilities,
> Installation Locations, & Distribution Standards" (BUILDS) specification.
>  But first, I want to throw out a few ideas to test the waters, and to give
> a general idea of what the first PEP would cover.
> The basic idea for the first PEP is to:
> 1. Give an overview of the current situation (problems w/distutils and
> setuptools, mainly, but also some of the successes)
> 2. Comment on some lessons learned from the WSGI definition process and
> WSGI in the field, and how they can be applied to the BUILDS process
> 3. Lay out high-level goals for the BUILDS project, such as:
>   * distributing responsibility/authority for build tools development
>   * adding extensibility to installation processes,
>   * providing a 100% open playing field for build & install tools,
>   * interoperability with the existing "egg" infrastructure, and
>   * interoperability (but not 100% backward-compatibility) with distutils
>   * allowing an incremental transition to the new standard
> 4. Lay out *non-goals* for the BUILDS project, such as trying to get
> developers to become system packagers or doing anything that requires them
> to change the runtime contents of their projects (as opposed to merely
> porting their setup.py, setup.cfg, etc.), defining and implementing the
> "perfect" system, etc.
> 5. Define rigorous terminology to be used for discussion of requirements
> and design, including such terms as "project", "release", "distribution",
> "system package", "installed distribution", etc.  (This is incredibly
> important, because the discussions we're having now are already having
> Tower-of-Babel confusions.)
> 6. Sketch an overall design concept (build libraries in the stdlib
> establishing a Python API for invoking build tools, that in turn build an
> installation manifest to be used by installation tools), but without
> specifying actual APIs, manifest format, or a full enumeration of release
> metadata.
> 7. Present a vision/plan for how migration can occur from current tools.
> 8. Set the scope for the PEPs that should follow, on the installation
> manifest format, build architecture, build tool API, compiler/config
> infrastructure, etc.
> Whew.  As you can see, just defining the problem adequately is a big job,
> and it may take a while to get even this first PEP right.  So, I'd like some
> feedback, if anybody has some ideas about what else needs to be added to
> this.
> I also don't want to end up writing all of the PEPs, or else it may be a
> year or so before they all get done.  ;-)  I also think we're going to want
> a working group for this, or maybe multiple working groups, and it might be
> best not to use the general distutils-SIG for discussion past the first PEP,
> to allow people to filter threads better.
> Anyway.  Thoughts, comments, volunteers, anyone?

> _______________________________________________
> Distutils-SIG maillist  -  Distutils-SIG at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig

Tarek Ziadé - Directeur Technique
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