[Distutils] Distutils changes - end user requirements (Was: Deprecate MANIFEST.in)

[zooko]

> And yet, you'll get Debian users who say your install process  
> doesn't work for them because it doesn't use apt, and doesn't  
> register the packages in the apt database. And Windows users who'll  
> point out that it doesn't work behind their corporate firewall, etc.

Yes -- we already have lots of those!  That's why we also  
provide .deb's, and why the makers of commercial software products  
that use Tahoe provide Windows installers, etc.. The install.html  
page [1] are not for everyone. No single installation process can  
possibly satisfy everyone.

> (I don't know if Tahoe uses Twisted, one of my gripes is that it's  
> not clear from the Tahoe web page precisely *what* it depends on,  
> and hence what I'd have to be careful to avoid fiddling with...)

Hm.  That information is stored here:

http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/_auto_deps.py

I've just added a hyperlink to there and an explanation on this page  
here:

http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/InstallDetails

> Why? If your users want it and/or it's simple for you to produce  
> *in case* a potential users wants it, then why do you refuse to  
> distribute it simply because you don't like the user experience it  
> offers?

Because I would need to spend time supporting it by explaining to  
users who try to use it how to install the dozen or so dependencies.   
I've done that in the past for the Tahoe project -- it is a huge  
timesink, especially if you want to give a similar level of support  
to the dozen or so *other* platforms which have their own preferred  
installation methods.  Switching to the setuptools-based install  
instructions [1] saves a great deal of effort on my part.  Alas that  
method of installation is, of course, not acceptable for many users,  
so it is but a beginning.

> Anyway, thanks again for actually trying all this. I think I  
> understand your POV a bit better now. And you may want to  
> investigate py2exe as a distribution option more suited to your  
> Windows users' expectations

Sure, the commercial product based on Tahoe which is made by  
allmydata.com uses py2exe for that purpose.  The "bbfreeze" tool that  
I mentioned will hopefully grow into a better replacement for py2exe.

Regards,

Zooko

[1] http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/install.html