[Distutils] Fwd: People want CPAN :-)
wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de
Thu Nov 12 10:28:51 CET 2009
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 16:22 +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
> 1. I don't need a replacement for rpm/yast/yum/synaptic: they provide
> file tracking and package resolution/dependency already and
> pepole are using them (and it has been for a very long time)
I think that the ongoing discussion about Python packaging should focus
on the needs of the users. I made a proposal that might ease basic
packaging tasks for *nix package maintainers and think it would be a
great time to contact the following groups of users and encourage them
to provide some feedback on their needs:
* Python developers
- How can distributions be queried?
- How is access to shipped data handled?
- What are common patterns/workarounds they use in their setup.py that
should be automated/made easier?
* Distribution package maintainers
- Should a distutils packaged provide more Metadata about the files that
- What would help in the packaging process?
* Python users
- Should PEP 370 compliant installation become the default? (--user the
- What is missing from virtualenv? (like easy creation of a
virtualenv and automatically installing distribution according to a
pip reqirements file)
- Would users like PyPi to be stricter in what it
accepts (i.e. automatic testing and rejection of distributions of bad
I think that some of these questions are already answered in the PEPs
that are under consideration right now. I would *strongly* suggest to
get them into shape before any discussion on CPAN and that is started
and binds a lot of resources.
I like the aproach taken by Vinay Sajip with PEP 391. He (and others?)
worked on them until they were deemed to be of sufficient quality.
Afterwards he asked python-dev for input, incorporated these changes and
then asked the whole Python community on python-list. I happily provided
input and got them incorporated into the PEP. THAT was a great user
experience and a big advantage of open (source) communities.
I would therefore suggest to:
1. Get the PEPs into shape
2. Contact the people and spread the word that *now* is the time to
provide input that influences the way Python packaging will be done
for some time to come.
3. Collect input on some Wiki/document/whatever and discuss the issues
4. Change the PEPs to incorporate the solutions.
5. Goto 2 if necessary
6. Design the distutils/distribute/virtualenv/pip API to reflect this
7. Implement the changes.
I will ask on some distribution specific MLs (like debian-python) what
they might need, once we singled out some ideas that look promising.
.''`. Wolodja Wentland <wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de>
: :' :
`. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC
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