[Distutils] Proposal for Distribute 0.7

P.J. Eby pje at telecommunity.com
Thu Oct 15 19:50:27 CEST 2009

At 02:32 PM 10/15/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>That would make us happy, because we would be able to work and
>continue if you are not available sometimes without the feeling
>that we are locked, and that would give you the manpower you miss to
>develop some of your idea.

So... you've explained what part of this proposal will make you 
happy.  Where's the part that will make me happy?

Generally speaking, that's how a "win-win" proposal works.

There's a second issue, too.  You've repeatedly smeared setuptools on 
Python-Dev to cover your mistakes, and you have *yet* to retract or 
amend any of those statements or apologize for them in any of the 
places where you made them -- despite numerous requests that you do so.

In each case where I've made a request, I know you've received the 
request, because you've replied to the email or comment in which I 
made it.  But in none of your replies have you even *acknowledged* 
the issue, let alone done anything about it.  Instead, you've either 
changed the venue, the subject, or just launched a new smear.

This latest "proposal" of yours is of course just another such 
subject and venue change, in reply to one of my more recent requests 
(via Reddit comment) that you do something about this outstanding issue.

But if you were genuinely serious about the things you claim to be 
interested in, you might have paid attention to such things as my 
mentions that there are other people on the Distribute team who I'd 
seriously consider as committers on setuptools or even as a chief 
maintainer of the setuptools 0.6 line (if not more).

In my book, the mere fact that you haven't asked me who those team 
members are, or offered to step down in favor of them (either 
privately OR publicly), tells me everything I need to know about 
where your real interest in this matter lies.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not blacklisting you or refusing to 
support you.  You are no less a user of setuptools than any other, 
after all.  To the extent that you are courteous in your requests 
regarding setuptools, you will get reasonably courteous responses 
from me, as has been the case on Python-Dev and here in the last few 
days.  (And for that matter, all along!)

But please don't bother floating any more proposals for some sort of 
direct collaboration or co-operation between you and I, not now, or 
ever again, until such time as you have shown as consistent a track 
record of behaving with integrity, as you've shown a *lack of* in 
your interactions with me.

Because as of right now, I can't trust you enough to work with you.

I can't trust you not to blame every mistake you make on me, and then 
say, "oh let's just forget about everything" when you're called on it.

I can't trust you to admit when you don't know something (see our 
recent Catalog-SIG exchange), or to not throw my agreement to work 
with you back in my face the first time we disagree on something.

And these things alone would be more than enough reason not to work 
on a software project with someone.

But at this point, I can't even trust you to not immediately follow 
up my mere *agreement* to work with you, with a blog post like "PJE 
finally comes to his senses" or some such rubbish.

Your political gaming behavior is a deal-breaker for me, and it's not 
something that any behavior you do *now* can fix.  I've tried for 
months to give you the benefit of the doubt, the benefit of the 
language barrier, and maybe even the benefit of a complete lack of 
sensitivity or clue on your part.

And, most recently, you've had no fewer than *five* extra chances 
from me to act with integrity, but you've chosen to showboat instead.

Every.  Single.  Time.

So, good luck with that, 'cause I'm done with it.

To the rest of the Distribute team: I have absolutely no quarrel with 
any of you, as far as I know, and I remain open to an (off-list) 
discussion on any topics or win-win proposals you'd like to discuss.

P.S. Tarek: if your next move is to issue a series of halfhearted, 
backhanded retractions so you can whine that you did what I asked and 
I still won't work with you, please don't bother.  It's not really 
credible evidence of your integrity at this point, so I'm done with 
asking you for anything.  IOW, this is *not* a sixth request for a 
retraction, it's the termination of my many, many attempts to deal 
with you in good faith.

P.P.S. Everyone else: please don't clog the SIG mailing list with 
further discussion on this topic.  If you feel the need to flame me 
for some reason, please show more consideration to the group than 
Tarek has, by sending it to me in private, or go rant on your blog or 
twitter if your need for attention is too great.  In return, I will 
guarantee this to be my last mailing list post on this subject.  (I 
guarantee that I'm at *least* as tired of it as you are.)  Thanks in advance.

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