[Distutils] Bootstrap script for package management tool in Python 2.7 (Was: Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7)

[Tarek Ziadé]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:45 PM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
[..]
>> http://guide.python-distribute.org
>
> I can see any FAQ. To me the FAQ is something that could be posted to
> distutils ML once a month to reflect current state of packaging. It
> should also carry version number. So anybody can comment on the FAQ,
> ask another question or ask to make a change.

The guide was built by people in the community, and contains a
"current state of packaging" section.
We are trying to keep it accurate with what we are doing.

You have a mailing list where you can ask question, and you are
welcome to contribute changes.

Adding a "FAQ" containing links to sections in the guide, or a
summarized answered is a good idea though !

>
>> Again, any new code work will not happen because 2.7 is due in less
>> than a week. Things are happening in Distutils2.
>
> That doesn't solve the problem. Bootstrap script can be written in one
> day. What we need is a consensus whatever this script is welcomed in
> 2.7 or not? Who is the person to make the decision?

Guido makes all final decisions.

But before he does, in general, we work all together to find a
consensus, because he can't take part in all
discussions. In this process, I am the guy in charge for packaging
matters in the stdlib, and I am trying to write the PEPs that reflects
those consensus. But anyone is welcome to champion a PEP as long as we
discuss it a bit here, and we agree that a new PEP is required.

Feel free to make more points here in distutils-SIG about your idea,
to explain the advantages of doing it
and gain traction.

But there are no chance at all this will be accepted for 2.7. It's a
long process (not writing a script, but deciding if it's the best way
to go)

>
>> Now, for the "best practice" documentation, I think the guide is the
>> best plce to look at.
>
> Let's refer to original user story:
> "I installed Python and need a quick way to install my packages on top of it."
> "I execute `easy_install something` as said in installation manual,
> but nothing/error happens."

Have you read : http://guide.python-distribute.org/installation.html ?
How could we change it to help this user story ?

>
>> [..]
> The scope of my proposal is a bootstrap script that instructs user how
> to install the package management tool of user's choice if this tool
> is not yet installed on user system (this is the case with new Python
> installation).  If you'll come up with a better way of package
> management - you will update this bootstrap script with relevant
> information in future Python releases.

Sounds like a simple installation instruction, I can't see the benefit
of adding a script for that.

Plus, we can't make a choice for Python 2.7. Some people use
easy_install, some people use pip,
some use another tool. You use easy_install, fine, install it.

Once PEP 376 is finished and accepted, we might provide a basic script
in the stdlib though.

[..]
> If there will be no bootstrap script in 2.7, I won't have any
> motivation to continue discussion until 2.8 deadline is near. Of
> course I will be disappointed, because I will have to explain
> everything to 2.7 users again and again instead of letting them
> execute one command and follow its instructions.

Frankly, I am not understanding why you are pushing so hard to include
this script one week before 2.7b1 without any previous discussion.  I
am sorry if you feel disappointed about this.

Regards
Tarek

-- 
Tarek Ziadé | http://ziade.org