[Distutils] PEP 439 and pip bootstrap updated

Richard Jones r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com
Wed Jul 10 06:37:47 CEST 2013

On 10 July 2013 14:18, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Richard Jones <r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 July 2013 13:20, Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Richard Jones <r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Firstly, I've just made some additional changes to PEP 439 to include:
>>> - installing virtualenv as well (so now pip, setuptools and virtualenv are installed)
>>> doesn't "PyEnv" which is bundled with Python 3.3+ replace virtualenv? What's the purpose of including virtualenv in the bootstrap? http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0405/
>> It's my understanding that people still install virtualenv in py3k.
> I just talked to Carl. He basically said that for 3.3+ pyenv itself should probably used and that "hopefully virtualenv will die in favor of of pyenv".

OK, thanks. I wonder whether virtualenv.org could mention pyvenv for Py3k users?

> Another reason I think that the bootstrap script shouldn't install virtualenv is that of scope. The point of bootstrapping was to make it so pip could be "included" with Python without actually including it. As far as i'm personally concerned it should concern itself with installing pip and setuptools (assuming we can't make setuptools optional in pip or bundled…). We don't need virtualenv to enable ``pip3 install foo`` so it shouldn't be installing it.

pip without virtualenv in python 2 contexts is pretty rare (or at
least *should* be <wink>) so I think I'll retain it in that bootstrap

> Otoh it would be nicer if PyEnv was taken to integrate with pip (although this is possibly a different pip) in that when creating a new environment if pip has already been installed in the "parent" environment it would be copied over into the pyenv created environment.

There's also the idea I mentioned yesterday: if pip is installed to
the user local site-packages then it would be really good if pip's
installs could also default to that rather than the system
site-packages. In fact I consider it a bug that it does not, and I
hope the pip devs will come to think that too :-)


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