[Distutils] PEP 439 and pip bootstrap updated

Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com
Wed Jul 10 22:30:11 CEST 2013

On 11 Jul 2013 04:56, "Brett Cannon" <brett at python.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10 July 2013 15:28, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>>>> So, at present, if I (as a 100% Python 3 user) want to install a
package, I type "pip install XXX". No version suffix. In the same way, to
invoke Python, I type "py" (I'm on Windows here) or if I want the currently
active virtualenv, "python".
>>> But you should be typing python3 here, not python (and PEP 394 is
trying to get people to start using python2 as the name to invoke).
>> So - that's a major behaviour change on Windows. At the moment, Python
3.3 for Windows installs python.exe and pythonw.exe. There are no versioned
executables at all. Are you saying that in 3.4 this will change? That will
break so many things I have to believe you're wrong or I've misunderstood
you. OTOH, adding python3.exe and python3w.exe (or is that pythonw3.exe?)
which I can then ignore is fine by me (but in that case, the change doesn't
affect my point about the pip command).
> Didn't know Windows was never updated to use a versioned binary. That's
rather unfortunate.

Hence the PyLauncher project.

Paul's right, though - the PEP is currently very *nix-centric. For Windows,
we likely need to consider something based on "py -m pip", which then
raises the question of whether or not that's what we should be supporting
on *nix as well (with pip and pip3 as convenient shorthand).

There's also the fact that the Python launcher is *already* available as a
separate Windows installer for earlier releases. Perhaps we should just be
bundling the bootstrap script with that for earlier Windows releases.


> -Brett
>> As I say, I understand Unix is different. This is a purely Windows point
- and in the context of the PEP, that's what I'm saying, please can we be
careful to be clear whether the plan is for the new pip bootstrap to favour
existing platform conventions or uniformity (with the further complication
of needing to consider the full pip distribution's behaviour - and there, I
will be lobbying hard against any change to require a pip3 command to be
used, at least on Windows).
>> As things stand, I can assume the PEP specifies Unix behaviour and is
vague or silent on Windows variations, or I can ask for clarification, and
for the results to be documented in the PEP. Up to now I was doing the
former, but I'm moving towards the latter - hence my question(s).
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