[Distutils] PEP 439 and pip bootstrap updated

Vinay Sajip vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk
Fri Jul 12 19:10:54 CEST 2013

Donald Stufft <donald <at> stufft.io> writes:

> Eh, installing a pure Python Wheel is pretty simple. Especially if you
> restrict the options it can have. I don't see any reason why the bootstrap
> script can't include that as an internal implementation detail.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here, in terms of which of my points
you are responding to.

> I think it's kind of funny when folks say that new packaging software *needs*
> to be in the standard library when setuptools has pretty emphatically shown
> us that no it doesn't. People have problems with packaging, solve them
> without throwing away the world and they'll migrate.

Inertia definitely is a thing - otherwise why complain that an explicit
is much worse than an implicit one? The difference in work to use one rather
another isn't that great. I'm not saying that distlib (or any equivalent
software) *has* or *needs* to be in the stdlib, merely that adoption will be
faster if it is, and also that it is the right kind of software
(infrastructure) which could reasonably be expected to be in the stdlib of a
language which is acclaimed for (amongst other things) "batteries included".

Setuptools, while not itself in the stdlib, built on packaging software that
was, so the cases are not quite equivalent. Users did not have to do a major
shift away from "executable setup.py", but if we're asking them to do that,
it's slightly more work to migrate, even if you don't "throw away the world".
And of course I agree that easing migration is important, which is why I've
worked on migrating setup.py logic to declarative PEP 426, as far as is

> pip used to have this and it was removed as a misfeature as it caused more
> problems then it solved.

Was it exactly the same? I don't remember this. I'd be interested in the
specifics - can you point me to any more detailed information about this?

> I haven't read your script in depth

There's not much to it, it shouldn't take too long to review :-)


Vinay Sajip

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