[Distutils] [Numpy-discussion] Proposal: stop supporting 'setup.py install'; start requiring 'pip install .' instead

Ralf Gommers ralf.gommers at gmail.com
Sun Nov 8 08:59:21 EST 2015

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8 November 2015 at 13:34, Ralf Gommers <ralf.gommers at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 8 November 2015 at 11:13, Ralf Gommers <ralf.gommers at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "wheels and sdists" != "release artifacts"
> >>
> >> Please explain. All you've done here is state that you don't agree
> >> with me, but given no reasons.
> >
> > Come on, I elaborated in the sentence right below it. Which you cut out
> in
> > your reply. Here it is again:
> >
> > "I fully agree of course that we want things on PyPi (which are release
> > artifacts) to have unique version numbers etc. But wheels and sdists are
> > produced all the time, and only sometimes are they release artifacts."
> Sorry, my mistake. I didn't see how this part related (and still
> don't). What are wheels and sdists if they are not not "release
> artifacts"? Are we just quibbling about the what term "release
> artifact" means?

I'm not sure about that, I don't think it's just terminology (see below).
They obviously can be release artifacts, but they don't have to be - that's
what I meant with !=.

> If so, I'll revert to using "wheels and sdists" as I
> did in my repsonse. I thought it was obvious that wheels and sdists
> *are* the release artifacts in the process of producing Python
> packages. It doesn't matter where they are released *to*, it can be to
PyPI, or a local server, or just to a wheelhouse or other directory on
> your PC that you keep for personal use only. Once they are created by
> you as anything other than a temporary file in a multi-step install
> process they are "release artifacts" as I understand/mean the term.

To me there's a fairly fundamental difference between things that are
actually released (by the release manager of a project usually, or maybe
someone building a local wheelhouse) and things that are produced under the
hood by pip. For someone typing `pip install .`, sdist/wheel is an
implementation detail that is invisible to him/her and he/she shouldn't
have to care about imho.

> But terminology's not a big deal, as long as we understand each other.


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