[Distutils] tests location: Use case: new comers and docs.

Thomas Güttler guettliml at thomas-guettler.de
Wed Oct 7 07:38:58 CEST 2015

Am 06.10.2015 um 17:33 schrieb Erik Bray:
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Ionel Cristian Mărieș
> <contact at ionelmc.ro> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 07:07:31 -0400
>>> Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
>>>> I've never, in my entire life [...]
>>> Can I suggest your entire life is an anecdotal data point here?
>> Make that two anecdotal data points :-)
>>> Any number of things can be described as trivial depending on the
>>> skillset and patience of the user.  When users report a bug, they are
>>> not expecting to be asked to download and "untar" stuff.  Not every
>>> user is a programmer.
>> But seriously now, your arguments are also anecdotal. Lets not pretend we're
>> objective here. That sort of attitude is disingenuous and will quickly
>> devolve this discussion to mere ad hominems.
> Okay, though, so maybe if there is nothing to offer here but anecdata
> then maybe we should stop acting like there's "one right way here".  I
> have projects that install their test suite and test dependencies
> because it is frequently useful to ask users to run a self-test (and
> users themselves want to be able to do it for a variety of reasons).
> There are other projects where it doesn't make sense, and those don't
> have to install the tests (I still think in those cases that the tests
> should live in the package instead of outside it, but simply not
> installed).
> In any case, let's not get trapped into endless circular discussions
> about what is correct, period, and instead consider individual use
> cases--not dismissing individual projects' or peoples' experiences and
> needs--and discuss what the most appropriate action is for those uses
> cases.  Python projects are not monolithic in their audiences (and
> that includes developer audiences and user audiences).

Yes, there is not generic "one right way here".

Yes, let's consider individual use cases.

My use case are the docs for new comers:

 - https://github.com/pypa/sampleproject
 - https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/distributing/

That's why started the thread.

New comers don't have the experience you have. New comers
want to get their coding done. They need a simple
advice: "If unsure, then do X"

And for this question, I want a "one right way here".

Up to now it looks like there is no consensus. 

  Thomas Güttler


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