[Distutils] PEP: Build system abstraction for pip/conda etc

Robert Collins robertc at robertcollins.net
Tue Feb 9 20:19:02 EST 2016

On 10 February 2016 at 13:09, Paul Moore <p.f.moore at gmail.com> wrote:
> [I need to read and digest the rest of this, but it's late here, so
> that will be tomorrow]

OK, cool.

> On 9 February 2016 at 23:19, Robert Collins <robertc at robertcollins.net> wrote:
>>>> Who / what tool do we expect to use the sdist command in the abstract interface?

>>> I do not accept any proposal that removes "pip wheel <source>" without
>>> providing *any* replacement.
>> But the current proposal *DOES NOT REMOVE IT*.
> By <source> I had in mind "project name", implying "download from
> PyPI". And by "remove" i meant "open up the possibility of people
> using tools that don't support easy creation of source artifacts that
> can be uploaded to PyPI, resulting in pip not being able to find
> something to download".

Sure - but Nathaniel and I both seem to think that the PEP doesn't
make it any easier to do that - and in fact should allow flit to start
uploading source artifacts (by allowing pip to consume it's sdists),
optionally with a setuptools_shim style setup.py.

>> We're clearly miscommunicating about something :).
> Yes, and that's probably my fault. I need to go back and reread the
> PEP and the thread.
> But as I said in my response to Nathaniel, it may be that all that is
> needed is some context in the PEP explaining how we require[1] people
> to upload source to PyPI in the new world where we support build
> systems which don't have a "sdist" command like setuptools does.
> Paul
> [1] I say "require" in the sense of "you have to follow these rules if
> pip is to be able to use your source", not "you must upload source" -
> although I hope that the number of people actually preferring to *not*
> include source in their PyPI uploads is vanishingly small...

So, I'm not against us making a statement like that, but I don't think
it belongs in this PEP - it should be in the main PyPI docs/rules,


Robert Collins <rbtcollins at hpe.com>
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud

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