[Distutils] Current Python packaging status (from my point of view)

Thomas Güttler guettliml at thomas-guettler.de
Tue Nov 1 13:35:13 EDT 2016

Am 01.11.2016 um 10:50 schrieb Nick Coghlan:
> On 1 November 2016 at 17:30, Thomas Güttler
> <guettliml at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
>> Am 17.09.2016 um 12:29 schrieb Nick Coghlan:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> Prompted by a few posts I read recently about the current state of the
>>> Python packaging ecosystem, I figured it made sense to put together an
>>> article summarising my own perspective on the current state of things:
>>> http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2016/09/python-packaging-ecosystem.html
>> Thank you for this summarizing article. Yes, a lot was done during the last months.
>> I liked the part "My core software ecosystem design philosophy" a lot, since
>> it explains that both parties (software consumer and software publisher) want
>> it to be simple and easy.
>> About conda: if pip and conda overlap in some point. Why not implement
>> this in a reusable library which gets used by conda and pip?
> For the parts where they genuinely overlap, conda is already able to
> just use pip, or else the same libraries that pip uses. For the
> platform management pieces (SAT solving for conda repositories,
> converting PyPI packages to conda ones, language independent
> environment management), what conda does is outside the scope of what
> pip supports anyway.
>> About funding: Looking for more income is one way to solve this. Why not
>> look into the other direction: How to reduce costs?
> Thanks to donated infrastructure, the direct costs to the PSF are
> incredibly low already. Donald went into some detail on that in
> https://caremad.io/posts/2016/05/powering-pypi/ and that's mostly
> still accurate (although his funded role with HPE ended recently)
>> Heading "Making the presence of a compiler on end user systems optional". Here
>> I just can say: Thank you very much. I guess it was a lot of hard work to
>> make this all simple and easy for the software consumers and publishers. Thank you.
>> I wrote some lines, but I deleted my thoughts about the topic "Automating wheel creation", since
>> I am a afraid it could raise bad mood in this list again. That's not my goal.
> I currently see 3 main ways that could eventually happen:
> - the PSF sorts out its general sustainability concerns to the point
> where it believes it can credibly maintain such a service on the
> community's behalf
> - the conda-forge folks branch out into offering wheel building as
> well (so it becomes a matter of "publish your Python projects for the
> user level conda platform, get platform independent Python wheels as
> well")
> - someone builds such a service independently of the current PyPI
> infrastructure team, and convinces package publishers to start using
> it
> There's also a 4th variant, which is getting to a point where someone
> figures out a pushbutton solution for a build pipeline in a public
> PaaS that offers a decent free tier. This is potentially one of the
> more promising options, since it means the sustainability risks
> related to future growth in demand accrue to the PaaS providers,
> rather than to the PSF. However, it's somewhat gated on the Warehouse
> migration, since you really want API token support for that kind of
> automation, which is something the current PyPI code base doesn't
> have, and isn't going to gain.

I like this 4th variant. I guess most companies which use Python
in a professional way already run a own pypi server.

I am unsure if a public PaaS for this would exist. Maybe a script
which runs a container on linux is enough. At least enough to
build linux-only wheels. I guess most people have root access
to a linux server somewhere.


Thomas Guettler http://www.thomas-guettler.de/

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