[Edu-sig] CP4E VideoPython learning to teatch / teaching to learn ..[xpost: was {'cpl',"don't laugh"}]

[Jason Straw]

Hello Jason and EDU-SIG:

There are a series of python videos in development through Yorktown High
School. Most everything is in the works: director, production equipment,
personnel, etc...  I am also sending this to the person who is
organizing the project, Jeffrey Elkner.

Jason Straw
Zope Master and Python Programmer
Yorktown High School Linux Users' Group


Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone
> 
> At Guido's suggestion, I am forwarding this rather impassioned  reply-post I
> made to a recent thread on comp.lang.python.
> I  have also just now subscribed to Edu-sig@python.org
> I have been following CP4E at a distance since I first heard about it and
> look forwards to sharing skills, ideas and inspiration together..
> - Jason
> ________________________________________________________________
> Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director
> 
> ............................................................................
> ....................................................
> Ken Mossman <K.Mossman@adb.com.ph> wrote in message
> news:8oi3s4$8km$1@nobel2.pacific.net.sg...
> > I have some JUNIOR staff
> > and they are asking
> > if there any CBT or multi-media
> > courses for Python
> >
> > They are NEWBIES !!
> 
> Hello. This is long post because you touched a nerve here...
> 
> I am not only laughing, but crying too - at you folks for not appreciating
> what a good question this really is!
> 
> In fact I am wondering if in part this does not get at the heart of CP4E
> [computer programming for everyone]..or what is missing in that regard..
> 
> Personally I would love to spend a couple of hours sitting next to an
> experienced Python programmer who could show for example the process of
> putting to together a program, testing it, shaping, how they react to error
> messages, how they sculpt the code, how they might look at the problem a
> couple of ways, how they use the tools, how many windows open, what they
> look
> at.. the real-world rhythm of a few hours in the life of a python program..
> even better if this was intelligently structured and re-playable with
> examples. It would be nice to have a human being talk and type me through
> some code.
> 
> Yes there is no substitute for hands-on learning doing. But there is no
> substitute for great teachers either!
> And since we don t have the joys of python class in school or at our corner
> adult-education center, we go to the web and read and download and hack
> explore till hopefully it clicks. Some experienced folks can transfer their
> previous learning fast, but for others who may have no experience or com
> from another background, the first steps are very important..
> 
> But consider for example what happens when you open a high powered version 9
> piece of multimedia or 3d.modelling.animation software.. How many of your
> here would last 15 minutes before a deep and overwhelming sense of drowning
> mingled with your wide-eyed ambition and fascination. But try to get
> something done...
> 
> Ok so you get your hands on 1 hour video which shows you the basic features,
> some examples and give you a reasonable grasp of what it the rhythm of
> working and how many times you have click and open, where some shortcuts are
> etc..
> 
> Lord I would love a Python video from the masters at work and play. In any
> field there are rare few people who _really_ understand it, and even rarer
> are the ones who can teach it. Python seems easy, well documented, has a
> great community etc.. and it does.
> 
> But fundamentally all the source code in the world does not help one
> understand the process of programming. It does not show a newbie what to do
> with all those modules and definitions after  your put them under your
> pillow! [http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html]
> Would someone just explain what all this stuff is and what are the 20 most
> important things needed to know to get going..and then put the rest into
> some context so one understands what to look forwards to.
> 
> I will give you a very simple few example of the sorts of things which drove
> me nuts when I first tried to run python on win32
> 
> 1 - PYTHONPATH... where is this thing and how do I set it  [in DOS ?, in
> Python under some menu, by editing autostart.bat, in some hideous registry
> sub.sub.sub.location.attribute
> 
> 2 - The manual says just make this cute 'helloworld.py' example and save
> it. So you do, but you don't save/drop it into the main python directory
> [that would be dumb right?] .. no like a good kid you make a nice folder
> four yourself and put your first examples there.
> 
> 3 - Now when you do this and go 'import helloworld' you immediately get an
> informative precise error reply written in Python[Babylonian]!
> What's with that?
> 
> For god sakes the newbie default for python should be
> 
> a: make a folder called 'newbies' and tell newbies to save their scripts
> there so they WILL run first time
> b: add an auto-include folder paths python routine which means any folder
> added to the default installation will be seen and run ok.
> 
> 4 - You get enthusiastic and a little braver and download some cool package.
> unzip and put it into you python directory or maybe even somewhere else [god
> help you poor soul]. Try to import that more errors..arggh. Eventually you
> find somewhere after scouring the docs and newsgroups a couple of VITAL
> commands:
> 
> import sys, os
> sys.path.append('c:\program files\python\coolnewpackage\')
> os.chdir('c:\program files\python\coolnewpackage\')
> os.listdir(os.getcwd())
> 
> - And after this there is the problem of packages and how modules behave
> with namespace voodoo like the difference between
> import *
> from somewhere import something
> from somewhere import *
> 
> - how to get them work properly
> - how to deal with the typical top 20 error messages python throws at you in
> zealous yet Zen-like bliss
> 
> - What is the relationship of import, os.getcwd(), os.chdir(), '__dir__',
> '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__' to the mysteriously named, ubiquitous,
> but frequently blank files named __init__.py  ???
> 
> Can you explain that one to you mother?
> 
> All the super tools in the world do not help if one does not know how to use
> them or have a grasp of what they are capable of. IDLE and PythonWin get
> better all the time, and now we are about to see lots more cool Python on
> Windows via ActiveState etc. But this only ups the ante for what a great
> idea it is to make some Python training Videos/DVD/CBT.
> 
> Go to Barnes and Noble for example, there are precious few python books
> visible and they are scattered around in odd corners. This is sad but not
> surprising since the Python booklist has grown well over the past year. I
> fear the situation may not change much in the future unless there is
> widespread adoption of Python ++ big marketing push to make it happen like
> WROX, MS, QuickStart, EASYthisEasyTHAT. Even if a newbie cannot afford the
> stack of $40+ dollar books VB and others tout, at least they can hang out
> their for an afternoon and browse and read and scan the range of uses,
> abuses, approaches and devotions of all those authors. Python is slim but
> elegantly represented.
> 
> Yes the online docs are admirable, but believe me there are many beginners
> who need all the help they can to get going. What are you going to recommend
> to the  nearest 12-year old who is itching to learn some programming?
> RealBASIC, Python, VB, JavaScript, C, C++, Dflat, Rebol, HTML, DHTML, XML,
> GML, Lingo, LegoMindstorms... ???
> 
> My answer is:
> 1.  Start with Macromedia Flash5 and maybe LegoMindstorms for Xmas
> 2.  And then learn Python... [but what am I going to give them for help?]
> 3. Then Blender v2.x [gaming version with  python scripting
> http://www.blender.nl]
> 
> Flash it turns out is a brilliant intro to object-oriented programming and a
> ton of instant fun for all ages also.
> The new Flash5 has a real language in it now [ActionScript = Java/ECMAScript
> syntax]  behind a cool multi-dimensional interface and frees humans from
> most
> of all the ghastly invisible stuff which object-oriented programming was
> supposed to..
> TEST A: - try making an interface in Flash and then in Tkinter or wxPython
> or some such..yeooow!@#. the difference is newbie heaven and hell
> TEST B: - or Next time anyone you know has to make PowerPoint slides, crack
> open a version of Flash and try that instead. Immediately it makes one think
> in terms of sequence, rhythm, flow, aesthetics, reusable components..
> perfect
> for presenting ideas and teaching.
> 
> C'mon - The question I ask you is what would make a good contents for a
> video, and who here would like to work with me [as camera wielding newbie]
> to develop some great CBT/Training Videos for Python ?
> 
> CP4E indeed. Before re-inventing yet another language {RIYAL}, how about
> first learning how to teach this one?
> Python is cool, it has some idiosyncrasies. I love it and hope it continues
> to thrive.
> regards
> - Jason
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director
> 
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