[Edu-sig] Python for non-programmers

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

1. Yes, I did mean the tutorial that comes with Python.

2. I bought "Learning Python" for both of us.  He started looking in it last
night and he didn't find it much more helpful at this point.  Today I was
referred to Magnus Lie Hetland's "Instant Hacking" and "Instant Python"
articles and they look like much more what I am looking for, and Doug finds
them accessible too.

3. I said why I wanted him to know to put __init__.py in directories from
the beginning, as a start towards developing libraries of modules as he
begins to organize the work that he does.  Knowing the environment of Python
for a platform seems important in achieving usability.  I am giving him a
minimum that he should be able to grow from without getting into paths,
environment variables, and such so soon.  That's why.  We'll see how well it
works out.

4. My assessment with Idle and PythonWin so far is that they are both too
easy to crash and there is too much that is inscrutable.  (I haven't
installed Idle 0.5 yet.)  More than that, I want Doug to have some short
path of connection between what he sees in the material he creates and what
happens operationally.  I agree that having an IDE environment is an
improvement, once you have a sound model of the fundamental process that is
not obscured by the tool.

5.   I don't expect this will hurt him any, and it will teach him
command-line use of the python processor, something that gets talked about
in all of the books.  He can move to an IDE when he has the basic
operational process under his belt.  I think he will adjust his own
practices to suit himself once he has enough sense of what is happening.  I
have no charge on whether he continues to run under 4DOS or do something
else.  I think he'll keep his wheel mouse though.

-- Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: edu-sig-admin@python.org [mailto:edu-sig-admin@python.org]On
Behalf Of Kirby Urner
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 17:26
To: edu-sig@python.org; edu-sig@python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Python for non-programmers

<<1-3>

Question:  when you talk about the tutorial, I presume you mean
the one that's included with Python.  I would highly recommend
investing in 'Learning Python' in addition.  That's really a very
good book, and it _doesn't_ get into technical stuff too fast or
too quickly.

>He knows to make __init__.py files but not why.  I wanted him to have a

Yeah, really, why start here?  You don't need __init__.py files
to learn Python.

</1-3>>

  [ ... ]

<<4>

>I set him up with 4DOS just because it is a little easier to know where you
>are and explore inside a command shell.  (I figure learning about console
>mode would be an easier way to have useful work in python before dealing
>with the GUI and the fledgling IDEs available for Python).

This seems completely and totally ass-backwards to me.  Why on
earth would you boot an X-Term window (aka DOS or 4DOS) and learn
Python in that clunky, unfriendly environment.  Especially when
your student is already Windows user, accustomed to that interface,
and does DVD + CD-RW.  Must seem like a real big step back into
the dark ages.

I'd say an IDE that color codes program key words as you type
them is a _minimum requirement_ for any student getting into
programming, in ANY language.  IDLE 0.5 is not all that
"fledgling" either.  Compared to a DOS prompt, it's lightyears
ahead and beyond, in terms of ease of use.

</4>>

 [ ... ]

<<5>

Shed the intuition that you need to go to a DOS window, is my
advice.

>I am looking at what would make his experience more successful and
>effective.

IDLE.  GUI.  No DOS (or 4DOS, or CP/M either).

</5>>

Kirby