[Edu-sig] Now I went and did it!

[Jason Cunliffe]

Yes, I would like to echo this feeling also.

I stepped back a bit after reading through yesterday's flurry of emails,
including my own adhoc proposals.

The most important points are having expressive tools you can grow with and
using them well.

This often means tools which are as _portable_ as possible
- platform-independent, agnostic-, cross- whatever fits.
Tools which are affordable to everyone - this means cheap or free. Free is
better.

But costs are not static, they extend over time and depedn on context, so it
really is cost of trial, cost of entry, cost of maintenance, cost of
books/manuals..cost of changing to something else, cost of different OS,
cost of multiple users etc. Some can be set in dollars, other is in time,
and other is human effort and psychic investment... posing some basic
questions:

Does it prepare me well for the next place?
Does it give me a good foundation?
Does it do what I want and need now?
Does it help me think better?
Does it help me learn how to learn?
Does it isolate me or join me to a healthy community?

Python scores very well on all these in my opinion.
Linux is more uneven in its suitability.
openSource is wonderful but also has some gotchas and myths attached.

First and finally it is the use of the tools which counts.
Kirby is right to keep focus on the curriculum.
Thanks

- Jason
________________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director

----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Allen <fallen@leveltwo.com>
To: 'Kirby Urner' <pdx4d@teleport.com>; <edu-sig@python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] Now I went and did it!


> Kirby,
>
> It seems to me that you are spot on in asserting that you best
> further your principal aims, which I admire greatly, by not
> diluting the force of your argument with consideration of
> tangential issues...e.g., as by advocating the cause of one or
> another of the belligerents in the operating system wars.
> Indeed, an evenhanded discussion of such peripheral matters
> strengthens the credibility of your true advocacy.  For what
> it's worth, I remain,
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Fred Allen
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: edu-sig-admin@python.org
> [mailto:edu-sig-admin@python.org]  On Behalf Of Kirby Urner
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 6:20 PM
> To: edu-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Now I went and did it!
>
>
> >I suggest you explain what open source is, give some very cool
> examples of
> >open source software (hmm, we saw some killer astronomy apps
> demonstrated
> >recently that would do quite nicely).  Of course show  Python
> and ALice
> and a
> >few others. And mention the open source office suites.
>
> Again, I think it confuses the issue to make Python be some flag
> ship
> of the open source movement.  The question is:  does Python have
> a role
> in K-12?  If so, what is that role?
>
> Apple has been aggressive in schools as well, and its OS is
> likewise
> proprietary.  Python runs on both Microsoft and Apple OSs.
>
> There's nothing wrong with explaining what open source means,
> what's
> good about it.  It makes sense to praise Python for being open
> source
> and distributed royalty free.  But people will use Python in
> various
> proprietary ways -- so it just gets to be this involved
> discussion.
>
> Open source is not synonymous with useful in the classroom.
> Lots
> of open source stuff is too rough-edged and difficult to use
> given
> all the demands on time.  Sometimes it makes sense to pay money
> for
> some of those more polished products -- maybe just a few bucks.
> And of course some of the open source stuff is very slick,
> totally
> cool, and absolutely ready for classroom use.
>
> At least in my own "propaganda", I'm not planning to try pushing
> too many messages/agendas all at the same time.  Even if I push
> open
> source in some contexts (I appreciate Linux, have Python 2.0b2
> installed
> on it etc.), I don't see the need to conflate this with my
> pro-Python
> initiatives.
>
> Perhaps some of you ideologues want to educate me on why this
> isn't
> the right attitude.  I'm open minded and willing to change my
> tune
> if I'm able tune in other ways of looking.
>
> Kirby